STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Titus]

also, mastin didn't ally with me :/

Um, yes I did?
I allied with

someone

, and I submitted you as the name.
Due to an effect of my alliance, I don't get to know who I allied with (we don't get a topic to talk in), but check your PMs for the morning. If you were allied with me, you'd see the nature of the power I have, which is the one where I said that I have no intention of town ever needing to use. And you'd know why.

(Basically, the reason why I don't want to ally with anyone is because the alliance chat which is the whole fucking point of an alliance in the first place is disabled because of my role, making an alliance with me purely role-based, and my role in an alliance is not something I see as pro-town, ergo, me deciding to never ally.)

Also, since all the cool kids were doing it:
VOTE: Reasonably Rational.
I've got thoughts I typed up during the night to share if need be.
But among the obvious, Obi-wan Kenobi is town; Titus virtually never busses, and when she does, it's strategically as a last-resort; she was hardcore pushing SirCakez so either she hardcore bussed (lolno), or she's town.

This isn't DGB's doing?

[Titus]

We didn't get notification, vote count, or planning. That's a scum event designed to take out myself or Mastina.

I think all lies need to come into the open.

Also, DGB's alliances do need to be tracked. For Farside to be scum, dgb needs to be in communication with scum. Easiest is d3 with TWIE but if Mastina was allied only with McMenno...then that changes things. I had done a significant amount of analysis based on that lie.

[Titus]

Disagree. Scum were NOT going to lynch us with the event. Stress went to negative 6 because of a no lynch. That effect is pro scum. The lack of claiming or organizing is pro scum. The lack of vote revelations is pro scum.

That event was designed to lower stress to make us vulnerable.

[Titus]

Farside, to me this is part of the problem with Day 0 as it were. Some people won't participate since the game technically hasn't started. Others shit post and don't do much. Not sure there is much we can do about it right now.

Want to talk about things in the thread so far? You are feeling pretty town to me.

is this how scum talks to a buddy?

Can be. That's null.

[Titus]

I want more information.

[Titus]

Specifically, I need to hear from Mastina. I think the flips would be shocking to her and let's not be hasty.

[Titus]

VOTE: Snarky

Gg

Why?

[Titus]

I'd love to say yes but no.
I've looked at his iso over and over, esp day 1, only initially does he give a reason to vote SC which is meh. Then switches to farside and his vote later on looks like a bus.

@XK you mind explaining this? I'm only good at catching scum not good at getting town to agree with me lol

Who were you aligned with day 2? If we're supposing Farside bussing, we need to establish 7 scum or not.

If only town are loved, we can merely test if Farside is town or scum.

[Titus]

Grapes I think

Please list all alliances you have been in. I know I am being anal, but I think does not cut it.

[Titus]

Are you opposed to testing if Farside is scum?

@Kraska, can you increase the stress at nightfall.

[Titus]

She's unlynchable though if honest. We set her to l minus 1, our votes wipe, we know Farside isn't groupscum. If they don't she is.

[Titus]

Definitely check. One of RR or Farside is likely scum IMO.

[Titus]

I hate Vasoon......

I really thought he gave up..I wrote like several pms to him..... Shame on him for messing with my good nature

I skyped him too lol.

Any thoughts on scum? Who would king fuzzy lynch and how would he go about it?

[Titus]

Why didn't you tell us or release the vote counts?

[Titus]

Why didn't you let us plan for the event?

What are your reads?

[Titus]

Now, we have to verify if Snarky even got the most votes.

Our hood wasn't voting him unless you know, lies.

[Titus]

I think that post is basically a scum claim from TFL. Snarky simply naked voted SC. How does that not classify as a bus?
The whole dgb wagon is useless. She was traitor scum! Snarky won't know if dgb was scum.

VOTE: TFL

Actually, we're trying to establish if DGB did know.

[Titus]

Did anyone in your hood claim to vote Snarky?

[Titus]

I'd not mind testing it by lynching TWIE.

We'd test Farside by lynching Farside. If Farside is scum, the game is broken almost.

[Titus]

I could not use my ability until plus 3 stress so I had zero way of letting anyone know,,,,,,,,,


MM
didn want to give scum 1 easy lynch. I can see your point.


Titus
Unless Vasoon is lying to me than he got the most votes.

I did not vote...I did not know who to vote for.... I was thinking Shiro but I had a gut town read on him at the time

You couldn't say, I have an ability that lets us dual lynch tomorrow?

[Titus]

I'd not mind testing it by lynching TWIE.

We'd test Farside by lynching Farside. If Farside is scum, the game is broken almost.

I'm not scum.

Talk about not analysis flips of the dead.

Hypocrite

You are making it hard to verify that because you're annoying me with garbage posts.

What do you think of RR?

[Titus]

I could not use my ability until plus 3 stress so I had zero way of letting anyone know,,,,,,,,,


MM
didn want to give scum 1 easy lynch. I can see your point.


Titus
Unless Vasoon is lying to me than he got the most votes.

I did not vote...I did not know who to vote for.... I was thinking Shiro but I had a gut town read on him at the time

You couldn't say, I have an ability that lets us dual lynch tomorrow?

@Fuzzy?

[Titus]

I'd not mind testing it by lynching TWIE.

We'd test Farside by lynching Farside. If Farside is scum, the game is broken almost.

I'm not scum.

Talk about not analysis flips of the dead.

Hypocrite

You are making it hard to verify that because you're annoying me with garbage posts.

What do you think of RR?

Your the one still acting like I'm scum despite fire, math both calling me scum and the bs with Skybird.
Your banking on 7 scum which you don't know, so maybe you should learn to move on and stfu

Holy misrep.

You can be scum with 6 scum if DGB was in communication with scum.

What do you think of RR?

[Titus]

Craeture but you are not me. We think differently /.


Far
so you think snarky was bussing SC and DGB.......bc even on the math lynch Snarky was voting DGB,
I took it as a half insult more than a scum read

DGB was a traitor.
Her actions this game were easy to vote for, just look at the quick wagon.

Who was scum on it?

[Titus]

@Almost, with all due respect, no. If Farside is scum, we get like 5 clears. Sorting Farside is high priority. If TWIE is town, I am inclined to ignore Farside and pressure those manipulating me.

[Titus]

This is why we lynch TWIE first.

Again, this presupposes TWIE is the sole source of the communication.

We need to lock down things first.

[Titus]

Fuzzy, who were you aligned with day 2.

Farside, shut up with the discrediting.

[Titus]

Spoiler: Day 2 ally chart

Player Name	Day 2	Possibly scum link
Titus	Failed DGB	no
Klingoncelt	dead, allied with DGB day 1	no
Yume	Confirmed not scum	no
SirCakez ]	Scum dead	No
Shadow_Step	Grapes	no, grapes is an active voter and thus cannot be the source
Xkyfu	A50	No, a50 is a voter
Skybird	Farside	Maybe, if DGB tagged along
Almost50	Xkfyu	no[/cell
Shiro	randomidget	possible link
Dripping Goofball	Unknown, I suspect Mastina	point here is to find partner
Farside22	Skybird	Only if tag along
Mathblade	irrelevant	No
Reasonably Rational	yume	not scum w farside
grapes	Shadow_Step	No, grapes cannot be scum w Farside
McMenno	Suggested, but not cleared town wagons	Failed mastina, but now says success/cell]	possible
Mastina	No one	not scum, possible fuckery spot for DGB/cell]
Not Chara	Kraska	not possible scum
Magna	Klingon	not possible klingon would report
Firebringer	no, was bubbled	Bubbled
Fuzzy	Needs filling	grapes
Snarky Snowman	?	?
Creature	Failed Shiro	possible DGB, unlikely if random vouched and I think he did
Randomidget	Shiro	required allies
TWIE	?	don't know

Please compare where our charts do not match up almost and tell me why.

Each "day" corresponds to when the neighborhood would be in effect.[/quote]

[Titus]

That Farside wagon looks awfully scum heavy.

[Titus]

Plus, Jasper's role pm suggests it is highly likely there is at least 1 3p scum.

[Titus]

Plus, Jasper's role pm suggests it is highly likely there is at least 1 3p scum.

I was thinking rr for that one.
Like I said too much 3p stuff and lack of explaination.

No. I meant one 3p crystal gem scum. Rr is not a crystal gem.

[Titus]

@MoI, is your gem chat anonymous?

[Titus]

God, I feel conflicted. I hate Farside's play and it's scummy as shit, but she most likely is only scum if two more players are scum.

Clod event owner should claim.

[Titus]

Plus, Jasper's role pm suggests it is highly likely there is at least 1 3p scum.

I was thinking rr for that one.
Like I said too much 3p stuff and lack of explaination.

No. I meant one 3p crystal gem scum. Rr is not a crystal gem.

Ahhh I only could read so much of it, did you on the phone, those images the mod has for flips can't see see like the last 2 words at the end.

I'd say moi.
I believe yume said he was part of them??

I quote to read.

Jasper gets a pearl account. Pearl claimer needs to be pressured. Giving a pearl account with a pearl alive doesn't make sense.

[Titus]

Sorry, I had Skybird and Jasper confused, but this in in Skybird's pm

If no other 'Gem' characters exist outside of the scum faction, you gain control of a unique 'Pearl' account.
I will send the details of this account to you if this is ever the case.
This unique Pearl account will show up in the list of living players and on vote counts.
You can submit votes with this Pearl account--both you and this Pearl account can never be the only voting players on a lynch.
You can not post from this Pearl account otherwise.
This Pearl account may be voted for and affected by Climax actions.
This Pearl account can not form alliances.
Each Climax Phase, you may have this Pearl slot perform one of the following actions:
-This slot may protect any target player from being killed--any kills targeting the protected player will be redirected to the Pearl slot. This may not be used on consecutive Climax Phases.
-This slot may target any player to cause their submitted action to fail. This may not be used on consecutive Climax Phases.

[Titus]

Yeah, but it could be in the alternative. The phrasing is wonky. That could mean if all the gems are dead.

[Titus]

Mastin2:

Allied with Creature. No Action. Had no Ally.

Okay, so the no action is my fault since I didn't know I could say that, but this is interesting.
I said that I had no ally and that I submitted McMenno.

Also also, the good news is: I got a guilty with my investigation.
The bad news is: I think in spite of the result, TheWayItEnds is town anyway and just has a killing action meaning I (probably) wasted my role.

So, you're telling us TWIE has an ability that allows him to kill, and yet you still think him to be town?? With all the lack of kills that's been going on so far?

To me: ANYONE who has the ability to kill is a suspect. I firmly believe the scum had to forgo their night kills to trigger the Cluster.

VOTE: TWIE

That's until I know WHY he is town, and then -if convinced- I'll switch to Creature, again until I'm given reason to believe the claims he's Town aligned.

If both arguments are convincing enough, I will move on to lynch Shadow_Step.

Explain please.

I was specifically looking for which actions were mod corrected but there's no NK submission.

[Titus]

Actually, we're trying to establish if DGB did know.

Read her role card.
She did not know her scumbuddies, as per her role. She had no ability to find them.
Her scumbuddies, as per her role card AND SC's role card (in that SC's role had a "Find Jasper" ability which

scum never got to use

), did not know who she was.

Now!

After she flat-out claimed traitor.
And did a bunch of hella-scummy stuff.
The scumteam would have to be absolute morons to not put 2 and 2 together and realize that, yes, she actually

is

their traitor, refuging in audacity as she may have been.

But!

That is play-based, off of what she claimed in-thread and had Klingoncelt claim for her in-thread.
NOT off of role.

So, sure, maybe the scumteam knew who she was...but did they honestly care when the way they knew was the same exact way the town did? Her method of outing herself to the scumteam was outing herself to the TOWN as well.

Meaning, DGB was effectively a nonentity as far as VCA can be concerned, maybe a third party even: scum knew who she was, and weren't going to go out of their way to protect her. Quite the contrary.

She's a non entity until d3.

If TWIE is scum, they knew each other.

[Titus]

at least that's what I'm assuming. were alliance pts open during beachapalooza?

They were.

[Titus]

how has a skybird scumflip affected your reads, mastin

The Skybird flip did nothing.
Other factors make me think Shadow_step is scum (his play today compared to his play yesterday).
I still wouldn't put it past SnarkySnowman being scum.
I have a pretty interesting result on TheWayItEnds telling me he can kill as well.

And that would round me out at five groupscum plus the traitor. (Skybird, SirCakez, DGB, three living.)

But there's wiggle room here.
We know there's gonna be at least one scum in the non-top-three.
A second scum in the top three is not impossible if one of the above is not scum.
I don't think TFL is scum. Nor do I think McMenno is scum.
The other bottom voters have reasons not to be scum.

So if S_S/SS/TWIE isn't the scumteam, practically by necessity there needs to be one on the top.
Ergo, kraskaesque could be scum. But I'm not considering scum outside those four at the moment.

I do need to do analysis given the flip.
But as of this moment, the flip itself changed nothing. My reads haven't changed because of it. The order has changed, but that's thanks to outside circumstances (TWIE result + S_S's play), not from Skybird herself.

Take out SS put in Farside?

Rr and I were floating that team.

[Titus]

right, but there's reason to believe that skybird's claim was one of the mod-corrected ones

Who says the mod "had" to correct anything. V had guaranteed 3 (at least) will be 100% accurate claims. If he received 3 or more accurate claims, why would he correct the rest?

And no, mine wasn't mod-corrected, but it has been "rephrased" better. I said something along the lines of "I triggered my Joy Ride event which resulted in myself and the said 4 player being in an alliance.". I also had "all of whom are my own picks" attached to assert they were not random picks. If you want, I could go dig the PM I send for the exact phrasing.

The mod changed my phrasing as well.

[Titus]

well there's no reason to assume grapes is scum anyway, and the mod didn't change my phrasing

I think think the amended claims are Titus, Almost and Skybird

No. My claim is 100% true.

I attempted to put my result and fluff my lack of thief ability use. I was not likely mod corrected.

[Titus]

Take out SS put in Farside?

For fuck's sakes.
Drop the fucking farside scumread already.

She's not fucking scum.

Before I just had really strong feelings about it, and not seeing scum motive from her.

Now there's objective, hard fucking proof, of it.

Skybird's farside interactions are not scum-scum.
Furthermore, and far more importantly, farside's Skybird interactions are not scum-scum.

Plus, if you disagree with me about DGB being basically a nonentity in VCA considerations, if you consider DGB to be a pro-scum name (I do not), then scum were defending DGB by going after farside: Skybird did, and DGB did, and basically all the other scumspects did.

I don't have the time to deal with this shit right now.

But drop that damned read already.
How many times will you twist logic to its extremes and point out theoretical possibilities in order to justify her maybe being scum? Because with every passing piece of evidence we get, the scenario required for her to be scum becomes increasingly contrived and convoluted.

I have been. I reached the conclusion that for Farside to be scum in the group of 6, TWIE also had to be scum. You then suggest TWIE is scum. You're filling in details.

Farside has a mountain of evidence against her, but you twist and say no.

[Titus]

Scum picked you. Ever wonder why Mastina?

[Titus]

Mastin2:

Allied with Creature. No Action. Had no Ally.

Okay, so the no action is my fault since I didn't know I could say that, but this is interesting.
I said that I had no ally and that I submitted McMenno.

Also also, the good news is: I got a guilty with my investigation.
The bad news is: I think in spite of the result, TheWayItEnds is town anyway and just has a killing action meaning I (probably) wasted my role.

So, you're telling us TWIE has an ability that allows him to kill, and yet you still think him to be town?? With all the lack of kills that's been going on so far?

To me: ANYONE who has the ability to kill is a suspect. I firmly believe the scum had to forgo their night kills to trigger the Cluster.

VOTE: TWIE

That's until I know WHY he is town, and then -if convinced- I'll switch to Creature, again until I'm given reason to believe the claims he's Town aligned.

If both arguments are convincing enough, I will move on to lynch Shadow_Step.

Explain please.

I was specifically looking for which actions were mod corrected but there's no NK submission.

We were all wondering why N1 ended with no scum kills. N2 also didn't if I recall right (my brain is malfunctioning today and I'm damn too lazy to check back). I had this theory about the Cluster (which may kill "several" people) being their "mass-kill" alternative to individual NKs. In my theory, if they wanted to activate the Cluster they had to forgo their usual night kills (I believe it to be a balancing thing from Varsoon).

So, scum had the ability to kill each night but chose not to in order for the Cluster to work, and I firmly believe in that theory of mine.

What evidence supports it?

[Titus]

The lack of an n1 kill is a major source of paranoia for me. If your theory is correct, my last final doubts on RR can be put to rest Almost. So I apologize if you feel criticized. I want you to be right, so I am triple checking you.

[Titus]

have you thought about the scumteam forgetting to send in a kill :^)

Normally, I would laugh this and call it absurd. Yet, since Dragon Age, I cannot rule it out. How can we prove Almost's theory?

[Titus]

I reread the pt between sky and myself.
I'm thinking based on what she said xfyul is town and shiro maybe town. Idk as much about that, but she never said anything about snarky till day 3.

Farside, suppose TWIE is scum. What are your reads?

[Titus]

There's a guilty on TWIE. TWIE hasn't contributed.

Why can't you just answer the question asked? I spent a lot of time reevaluating your slot given Skybird's flip.

Suppose TWIE is scum, what are your reads?

[Titus]

I want Farside. I want to communicate with her on reads. Just straight up no noise. No bullshit.

[Titus]

Oh and Kraska should totally trigger the stress change at night if possible.

[Titus]

The lack of an n1 kill is a major source of paranoia for me. If your theory is correct, my last final doubts on RR can be put to rest Almost. So I apologize if you feel criticized. I want you to be right, so I am triple checking you.

You simply can't suspect RR AND farside at this point. The vote analysis of Beach-a-balooza doesn't support such suspicion.

Sky already flipped scum and need 1 more scum to cover for her. Now RR also voted Mastina, and for them to be scum they would need yet another scum to cover for them. That's FOUR scum already, with SC already dead.

Now farside would've needed TWO more scum to cover for her, so that's THREE plus the five above-mentioned = EIGHT???!! Even assuming DGB had a link and IS part of the ploy, eight sounds far far farfetched to me.

Now check RR's allies: Titus - Yume - Almost - Titus+Shiro (need confirmation on that last one). Regardless of how bad you think others are, do you think Cerb/Drixx will be inclined to ally with those names in particular, and TWICE with you in precise if they were scum??

RR also are still more or less wary of the Gems (something we partially disagree on, but it's no big deal.) and that doesn't come from scum. Scum will have pushed harder for a "CGs are anti-town 3rd party" or said nothing at all. Standing in the middle (they can win with us, but we're not sure if they can win independently or not) kind of stance only comes from town perspective.

Now I can't guarantee you RR reads are spot on (you may discuss them with them if you did end up allying together today) but I can promise you RR is Town in this game.

Btw, I think you and I should consider being allies in a couple of days.

Rr and Farside have a zero percent chance of being scum together. Farside is almost certain scum but not mod confirmed.

Rr might ally with me twice as scum. I did it to him in SU 1. I can see Why RR can be scum. I would rather not address this, as part will come if he dares to kill me, part because I want to see if others have the same conclusion.

________

The stress should increase after the lynch but before the NK if possible, in the rare event TWIE is town.

[Titus]

Unless you think putting player at a lower threshold is a good thing?

That should depend on the mechanics involved for kraska's ability. Can she do it AFTER a hammer has been laid?

My point is: With the delay in flips, it'd be much better for us to know on the spot if we lynched Town or Scum. We put TWIE on L-1 and then kraska does her thing and we wait for Varsoon to do a VC. If TWIE is lynched he was Town and we don't need to wait till the next day to know that. If he doesn't get lynched then he is SCUM and we lay the hammer still.

So, the only draw back is if kraska's ability doesn't trigger at Twilight, and TWIE flips Town (in which case the hammer had been laid before she did her thing, so it doesn't trigger).

If I'm not being clear, someone with better linguistic abilities should phrase this post. I know -at least- a couple of you could still extract the meaning out of my gibberish anyway.

If stress is at negative 4, we will know if TWIE is town while we wagon him. If Kraska increases stress we lose that ability.

[Titus]

TWIE: almost, Farside, creature

Nine to lynch.
8 if town.

L minus 5.

Please document this when you vote. I intend to hammer.

[Titus]

Correct. Any objections to me with Farside?

[Titus]

Correct. Any objections to me with Farside?

Dear God why?

It'll appease RR and make the optimal move not lynching you barring a guilty.

You in?

[Titus]

who got it?

Conftown.

[Titus]

mastin why would you choose gunsmith.

She did.

You fullclaim.

CLAIM STALL DETECTED.

[Titus]

i have 2 abilities.

the first is the everyone post what they did day 1 thing we just did.

the second is that i can vig during the season finale.

Dayvig or night vig?

[Titus]

night

No ally ability?

[Titus]

Still up to lynch.

Me too.

We don't need a vig. We got massive advantage with PoE potential.

[Titus]

oh.

and skybird, shiros, and snarkys are the truthful claims in that list.

How would you know Skybird's claim is true?

[Titus]

because those are the 3 people whos claims i picked to be corrected.

Why not correct all the dead scum?

[Titus]

Correct. Any objections to me with Farside?

Dear God why?

It'll appease RR and make the optimal move not lynching you barring a guilty.

You in?

Okay.

Twie: why didn't you say you never allied with dgb?

Good.

[Titus]

So basically, if we test TWIE and are wrong, one of me or Mastina almost certainly die.

We have to wait on Mastina before thoughts.

Just in case of a fast wagon, please set a trigger to increase if any slot reaches l minus 2.

[Titus]

Kraska can increase stress.

[Titus]

@Almost, We asked him to check at night. I have an exposition only ability as well. Mine is on my pm though.

@RR, If Twie is scum, lynching him has the status at negative 4. You townreading TWIE?

[Titus]

@Almost, I asked Kraska. I did because I have an exposition only ability. Kraska was referring to his own stress ability when he said exposition only.

[Titus]

@RR, And if scum delay the flips now like you postulate? They could flip twie immediately.

[Titus]

@Cerb,

You're postulating that TWIE gets revealed before NC.

In what world does that make any sense?

[Titus]

I've never suggested scum are the ones delaying the flips.

In fact, we have evidence that they are not, because Yume claimed responsibility for the delayed flips, and klingon's flip appeared to happen on her command. In addition, if scum had control over the flips, I imagine they'd have flipped SC immediately in order to gain access to their strongman kill through skybird. It's possible that the suggestion I(and A50) have made that perhaps they had to skip their N1 kill in order to trigger Message Received is accurate, and that's why they didn't care about having a strongman kill that night...but that doesn't change the fact that the gems are clearly in control of the flips.

And the gems know if they don't delay TWIE's flip and it turns out he's scum and they enable a strongman kill on our conftown, they're all dead.

So, I'm very confident that if twie flips as scum, his flip will not allow a strongman kill tonight IF NC flips town and gets stress to -3.

-Cerb

But you have. You're shading MoI and proceeding under the theory that MOI is Yume'sbackup. Beside the point, how do we know the flips are delayed by town now given Yume's death. NC did not flip immediately, so someone is delaying flips.

[Titus]

@RR, There's zero reason to suppose that TWIE flips before NC.

If TWIE flips after NC, we are at slice of life negative 4, RR.

[Titus]

Titus I have never suggested that twie would flip before NC.

What the fuck are you going on about?

-Cerb

The only way we can be sure of stress going down the finale is if scum cannot accelerate TWIE's flip. Given Yume's death, they may be able to.

Your supposition that things will stay the same with flips is wrong. Yume is not in control of them.

Someone flipped Skybird immediately after she died.

We should be using Kraska's ability.

[Titus]

Hey, pretty please gem reveal NC so this argument can pointless argument can end. One of y'all is scum otherwise.

I was already there but hey.

[Titus]

Scum picked you. Ever wonder why Mastina?

Not in the least, no.
Smart scumplay is strategically dispersing and claiming of their votes.

Scum voting me, and having one scum back them, is reasonable.
Scum voting you, and having one scum back them, is also reasonable. Especially in conjunction with the above.

Scum voting Not Chara, and having the full fucking team back that except two randomly on me, is not so reasonable.

The goal for scum in voting during the Beachapalooza event is to

not stick out

.
Taking actions which stick out,

especially

if a scum member dies, is counterproductive.

Thus, one reason I continue to have that kraskaesque suspicion.
If TWIE/S_S/SS is the scumteam, all the remaining scum were in the not voters, but the more I think about it, the more I think it likely there's a second scum in the top voters...but not on MY wagon, and not on Not Chara's wagon.

If scum had a perfect distribution (and ignoring DGB), we'd have one scum on me (Skybird), one scum on you, one scum in the none, and one scum in those claiming to have voted someone.

Also keep in mind:
kraskaesque, SnarkySnowman, and Shadow_step were all high in the claim order. Now I know it wasn't

perfectly

followed, but they still were in positions where it would be difficult to claim a vote without risking themselves being outed. SnarkySnowman claimed none, and Shadow_step claimed Almost50, who got no other votes.

I ten thousand percent disagree with your optimal scumplay here.
If they wanted me Ic, they just en masse vote me. They picked to buddy you. Therefore, you're likely doing something they want.
I think maybe one of those names is scum tops.
Mechanically and by gameplay Kraska is not scum.

Scum are fucking with the flips to keep us at l minus 4. So what Kraska increases the stress to look good? Nah. Kraska's town. You need to lay off Kraska.

Let's vote out TWIE for today. I have agreed to let Farside go for two days, but we need to get the last non-voter scum tomorrow. If that happens, I shall have a plan in place to either prove or disprove Farside as scum.

[Titus]

mastin why would you choose gunsmith.

As opposed to what?
Bulletproof?
Like the scumteam was gonna try and kill me. I'm usually fairly good at predicting when I am in mortal danger. I didn't feel the least bit threatened.

That other ability?
I sure wouldn't know when to use it effectively.

Of course I was gonna use the cop, because the cop ability I DO know how to use. I literally wrote the book on it.

Also,

Shadow_Step: No Ally Pick. No Action.
Kraskaesque: Allied with McMenno. No Action.
McMenno: Allied with Kraskaesque. Sent Pizza to Titus.
TheFuzzylogic99: Allied with CooLDoG. No Action.
SnarkySnowman No Ally pick. No Action.
Creature: Allied with Shiro. No Action.
TheWayItEnds: No Ally pick. No Action.

Just sayin'. Some of these are a little bit sketchy.

We don't need a vig.

We do, however, lose nothing by testing TWIE.

If he kills a player we designate, and if the scum also get a kill in, then either the scum have a double-kill ability and one of their shots is being directed onto a pro-town target...

...Or he's town, with a killing action.

He probably needs to be lynched before lylo, but I don't support a lynch on him today.

No. There's like 7 protectives.

Letting this happen just lets the scum no kill to frame TWIE or if TWIE is scum claimed they shot me or scum shot his target.

Plus, there's a zero percent chance we are agreeing on a pool given you want kraska (obvtown), snarky (obvtown) and shadow who has had improved play.

just no. TWIE should have known to crumb or claim if town.

[Titus]

if creature and farside were town who would your scumteam be, titus

I will reasses Farside when I have to based off a mechanical clear, which I am trying to do.

Creature might be town, but solely because I am out of room in the scumteam for the flip gater.

TWIE/??? (Gater)/ Farside is almost certainly the scumteam.

[Titus]

@Mastina, Yes, getting a guilty on TWIE is inconvienent for the both of us.

RR and I had literally deduced that a 6 player scum!Farside needs TWIE. That's why I wanted to track DGB any other way, but no, that didn't happen. You guilted the one slot needed for Farside to have a plausible chance at being scum.

Can you consider that maybe you're the one who is misguided and Farside is just that obviously scum?

[Titus]

Though, what could explain that I was supposed to be roleblocked but wasn't?

Was that night 1?

[Titus]

No, it was last night.

Ok, carry on.

[Titus]

I'm good with twie.

Vote: snarky

Creature are you going to explain why you took an action.

Also snarky wanted to align with a town read and does a block.
No.
Not just no, hell fuck no.

That's according to TWIE, which is just preemptive justification for when his "vig" fails.

[Titus]

Can anyone give a good argument as to why we should not lynch TWIE?

In spite of me getting the guilty, I actually don't think he's scum. That's the closest I have to a good argument, though, since I fully acknowledge a TWIE flip gives us a SHITLOAD of solid, reliable information regardless of his alignment.

It's basically a lesser farside, in that I don't think he's scum, and recognize ALL of the actually-very-good reasons for him to be scum, however, the key difference here is that with farside, I fought that wagon every step of the way and resisted it because I was very strongly against it.
With TWIE, I'm not against it at all. He's not my top preference, of course! But he's not my number one pick. Right now I'd say he's either third or fourth to be honest.

I'm almost certain that Shadow is town.

Considering Shadow_step is my top lynch candidate.

You're not gonna get away with leaving this vague.

I am REALLY biting my tongue here Mastina.

[Titus]

@mastina,

Any scumteam smart enough to have 48 hours plans their votes to achieve what they want. That means, scum wanted you over me. It is that simple. Sure, they only had half the vote power, but that doesn't mean they distributed equally.

Even now, scum rigged these flips to ensure one of us dies. Do you think it's the person they gave power to? Not a chance.

If TWIE flips town, the odds are insanely terrible of Farside bring scum. Yet, you're refusing to address this point as a strong reason why TWIE should be flipped today. DGB and TWIE is likely the only scenario where DGB has communication with the scumteam. DGB having communication with the scumteam is required for Farside scum.

Yet, you are hellbent on lynching Snarky or Kraska and doing the scumteam's bidding over a guilty who has excuses that are terrible.

[Titus]

Can you consider that maybe you're the one who is misguided and Farside is just that obviously scum?

And violate every rule of occam's razor I've sworn to uphold?

Absolutely not, no.

Your farside-TWIE scumteam requires one

very specific scenario

to have played out. Your farside-TWIE scumteam requires, even with that very specific scenario, a bunch of contrived, convoluted twists and turns and logical leaps that make no sense and don't fucking fit with their actual damn play. Your scumteam lacks coherency. It lacks reason. It lacks logic. It holds no chain of scum motive. It holds no clear links, nothing which says that these things definitely happened. It's a stretch, at

best

. At absolute fucking best, it is a stretch. It is implausible. It goes against all the evidence we have.

So no.

Never.

IMHO, that was a very safe claim VC-wise (yet very ludicrous logic-wise).

My point exactly!

Also snarky wanted to align with a town read and does a block.
No.
Not just no, hell fuck no.

This is a valid point.

No, you ARE violating Occam's Razor.

You have a guilty.
You want to vote elsewhere.
You may have wrote the book on innocents years ago, but I just finished running a clinic with Shiro on how to get and handle guilties.

You lynch them.

[Titus]

Scum pool = Mcmenno, kraskaesque, obi

By the way, Titus: rule of three, you're fond of it, right?
Which of these three do you think is most likely to be scum?
Rather, two, given you're one of them!

I already detailed the rule of 3 by then.

[Titus]

VOTE: Twie

[Titus]

These votes reek.

Wtf?

Can you translate this?
How is she calling Obi scum for doing the same thing as her?

This is also a variant on the rule of three, btw: he calls you out, Titus. He calls Xkfyu out. And he calls SnarkySnowman out. Just you three, and you three alone.
Now tell me, which of those three (again, actually two) sticks out more to you.

(Hint: The question to SnarkySnowman is extra-fake especially given his vote on you.)

Hey, guess what I already mentioned the rule of 3 by that point.

[Titus]

@Mastina, I will have an entire fucking night phase to plan with RR if I am wrong, which I won't be.

You on the other hand, REFUSE to consider the CHANCE you might be wrong on Farside because it doesn't fit how you scumhunt. You're violating Occam's Razor to ignore a guilty and lynch your scumread instead because it fits your view.

I meanwhile, have come up with a plan to settle Farside that works if we lynch scum today and tomorrow.

With a guilty, that shouldn't be THAT hard right?

[Titus]

I change my plans when the evidence for them changes. Not before.

[Titus]

Oh and Snarky winning given my entire hood agreed to vote Creature is even MORE evidence Snarky is town.

[Titus]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

If we fail and TWIE is town, Farside is clear.
If we succeed, turn to day 5.

If we lynch scum again, I should absolutely have knowledge of Farside's alignment.

[Titus]

I am fine with any of TWIE or Snarky btw.

Great, then let's vote the slot the conftowns agree can be scum.

[Titus]

Oh and Snarky winning given my entire hood agreed to vote Creature is even MORE evidence Snarky is town.

That's untrue.

Snarky was on his way to a lynch yesterday. The people in our hood weren't the ones voting him yesterday (I don't believe ), so we have no effect on the 7 or whatever it waa votes he was likely to get.

-Cerb

So you're presuming the town voters on Snarky's wagon didn't reevaluate? Who did the scum vote? They could vote as a collective without reprocussion.

[Titus]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

If we fail and TWIE is town, Farside is clear.
If we succeed, turn to day 5.

If we lynch scum again, I should absolutely have knowledge of Farside's alignment.

Farside is not clear without us figuring out where DGB could have allied on D2. Things still aren't locked up there, TWIE is *not* the only possible link from the chart I saw.

I mean, I get your position, we've discussed this, but there ARE scenarios in existence that make this work badly for us.

-Cerb

Pedit: do you believe fuzzy is scum? If not, then scum COULD NOT have voted as a collective because THEY DIDNT HAVE PT ACCESS. Only if fuzzy is scum/told scum about planning to use this event could they have organized in advance.

@fuzzy: did you tell anyone in the game at all about this event before you used it?

This is a Varsoon game. Scum have daychat.

[Titus]

@Mastina, Your reads have not changed for days. You are absolutely refusing to listen and you're now days behind in analysis.

The gatekeeper on the flips is almost certainly scum, debatable if they are a gem.

We already lynched the traitor, so looking for a traitor there is dumb.

TWIE is basically letting you defend the fuck out of him now. You're not even pretending there's a case on Snarky that doesn't suppose TWIE is town. He made up out of full cloth this mystical blocker.

Snarky is town.

[Titus]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

If we fail and TWIE is town, Farside is clear.
If we succeed, turn to day 5.

If we lynch scum again, I should absolutely have knowledge of Farside's alignment.

Farside is not clear without us figuring out where DGB could have allied on D2. Things still aren't locked up there, TWIE is *not* the only possible link from the chart I saw.

I mean, I get your position, we've discussed this, but there ARE scenarios in existence that make this work badly for us.

-Cerb

Pedit: do you believe fuzzy is scum? If not, then scum COULD NOT have voted as a collective because THEY DIDNT HAVE PT ACCESS. Only if fuzzy is scum/told scum about planning to use this event could they have organized in advance.

@fuzzy: did you tell anyone in the game at all about this event before you used it?

This is a Varsoon game. Scum have daychat.

Titus, the event specifically said ALL PT's are locked except alliances.

-Cerb

All the more reason scum just vote the townie that was wagoned.

[Titus]

You on the other hand, REFUSE to consider the CHANCE you might be wrong on Farside because it doesn't fit how you scumhunt.

I refuse to consider farside as scum because of all the MYRIAD of reasons against that, yes.

You're violating Occam's Razor to ignore a guilty and lynch your scumread instead because it fits your view.

I'm not saying let TWIE live indefinitely. I'm saying let TWIE live through today and today alone. And that's a view made, based off of...a combination of mechanical reasons (there's the possibility TWIE can use his vig) and play-based reasons: I'm dead serious I was aiming to get a hard innocent on TWIE. What that means is, he was someone I was townreading. Literally the ONLY reason I have to call him scum is the guilty result, and yet, by giving him one day to prove his ability or die, I am setting a definitive term.

I meanwhile, have come up with a plan to settle Farside that works if we lynch scum today and tomorrow.

Yeah, the problem being you said "if", and TWIE won't give us that.

I'm flat-out refusing to believe my own guilty result. I will let him die tomorrow. I won't oppose his lynch. I might even join it. I will do so fully thinking I'm lynching a false positive. Ideally, he wouldn't be lynched until two or three days later, since I'd prefer to lynch my other scumreads above him. But I won't stop you.

I will resist today.

No. You get a guilty, you lynch it. That is Occam's Razor.
Skybird giving you power suggests scum wanted you IC over me.
Snarky is suggested town based off the event.
TWIE clears Farside if I am wrong.
TWIE flip should unify town.
But you refuse to consider it because scum have framed your narrative.

[Titus]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

If we fail and TWIE is town, Farside is clear.
If we succeed, turn to day 5.

If we lynch scum again, I should absolutely have knowledge of Farside's alignment.

Farside is not clear without us figuring out where DGB could have allied on D2. Things still aren't locked up there, TWIE is *not* the only possible link from the chart I saw.

I mean, I get your position, we've discussed this, but there ARE scenarios in existence that make this work badly for us.

-Cerb

Pedit: do you believe fuzzy is scum? If not, then scum COULD NOT have voted as a collective because THEY DIDNT HAVE PT ACCESS. Only if fuzzy is scum/told scum about planning to use this event could they have organized in advance.

@fuzzy: did you tell anyone in the game at all about this event before you used it?

Yeah the player encouraging this thought process is more likely scum in my book.

Puts rr on permanent scum list.

Farside: the only way you're scum is if scum utilized the beach city event votes to allow you to pretend to pit 2 votes on NC. The only way that could happen is if DGB were in communication with the scum team. Titus is suggesting that TWIE is the only possible link, and I'm reminding her that he is not, so there is no clear connection between your alignment and TWIES.

What part of that makes you upset?

-Cerb

Correct. That's why I have structured this plan using your gift.

[Titus]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

If we fail and TWIE is town, Farside is clear.
If we succeed, turn to day 5.

If we lynch scum again, I should absolutely have knowledge of Farside's alignment.

Farside is not clear without us figuring out where DGB could have allied on D2. Things still aren't locked up there, TWIE is *not* the only possible link from the chart I saw.

I mean, I get your position, we've discussed this, but there ARE scenarios in existence that make this work badly for us.

-Cerb

Pedit: do you believe fuzzy is scum? If not, then scum COULD NOT have voted as a collective because THEY DIDNT HAVE PT ACCESS. Only if fuzzy is scum/told scum about planning to use this event could they have organized in advance.

@fuzzy: did you tell anyone in the game at all about this event before you used it?

Yeah the player encouraging this thought process is more likely scum in my book.

Puts rr on permanent scum list.

Farside: the only way you're scum is if scum utilized the beach city event votes to allow you to pretend to pit 2 votes on NC. The only way that could happen is if DGB were in communication with the scum team. Titus is suggesting that TWIE is the only possible link, and I'm reminding her that he is not, so there is no clear connection between your alignment and TWIES.

What part of that makes you upset?

-Cerb

Your encouraging a tunnel of Titus and ignoring many factors.

Thanks for playing.

Oh and all this whole still not saying who you think was scum that didn't vote in the beachpaloza.

If TWIE is town, you'd be clear. So it's a win win but you vote Snarky the minute Mastina predictably says that she doesn't want to lynch your buddy.

[Titus]

Here is were the hypothetically shit is getting missed.
When did dgb plan with twie to be in alliance together?

DGB forced it.

[Titus]

Titus seems to be resisting the idea that the flips are controlled by you guys, because it's anti-town aa fuck for you to be deliberately forcing a slot you should believe is town to use a power she has when you can make that unnecessary (a power which, btw, challenges the gems ability to control the stress level through deciding when flips occur...wonder why they'd want THAT to get wasted?).

Not Chara keeps saying her scum-read on your is growing ...

Do you think she is scum? Yes or no?

Because if you don't you have demonstrated knowledge of at least 1 of the reasons keeping her bubbled might be a good idea. And the fact that not immediately flipping her has given me info that solidifies my grapes Town read is another plus.

I'll patiently wait for whatever answer you might produce but I'll be clear - I don't give a rats ass if you like how the Gems are using the ability to stall immediate death for certain players.

@Mastina, Your reads have not changed for days.

Again.
Pot.
Kettle.
Black.

My reads

have

changed, off of new info I have.
Specifically, there are four players (plus Magna) I am mechanically clearing: two are gems (plus Magna), two are not.
My scumread on Shadow_step increased significantly.
My scumreads on SS and kraska have remained the same, sure.
But I also have been working on increasing my other reads: TWIE was one read, and there are other players I am townreading off of play and not role who I have had reads grow stronger on. (But, it's best for me to not reveal who these people are, because by doing so, I am by proxy revealing who I am townreading off of mechanics.) I deliberately avoided doing much analysis on TWIE since I figured I was going to get an innocent and just be able to write him off, but you think I'm not weighing his alignment?

Have you read my words at all?

I'm going back and forth on him with every fucking post I make. Pay attention, and you'll note that one moment I'm calling him confscum and the next moment I'm calling him the most obvtown player to ever obvtown and that's because, surprise!

My read is still fluctuating

. I'm still trying to pin him down.

But your scumread on farside has been there the whole damn game. Nobody, and I mean, NOBODY, can say they've held a scumread on a player for as long as you have on farside. Me? I wasn't scumreading kraskaesque until, what, midway through D2? SnarkySnowman? Wasn't that D3? I wasn't scumreading them at all on D1, I can tell you that much!

So whose reads, exactly, haven't changed?

Mine sure have!

The gatekeeper on the flips is almost certainly scum, debatable if they are a gem.

Yume explained it to me, and I'm not sure how much I should tell you, because this is something I think Yume trusted with me from the very start and was being entirely truthful about. Cliffnotes version: the flip delay started in Yume's hands. It's not a fucking scum ability.

We already lynched the traitor, so looking for a traitor there is dumb.

When I said traitor, I didn't mean role. I meant, mole. Double-agent. Groupscum with a fakeclaim within the group. Whatever you want to call it.

You're not even pretending there's a case on Snarky that doesn't suppose TWIE is town.

Actually, the case on SnarkySnowman is entirely independent from TWIE.
It's just that their interactions do not suggest scumbuddies. I also don't see it as possible both are town because that would mean one of my mechanical (or far less likely, play) reads was wrong.

He made up out of full cloth this mystical blocker.

No, he didn't. SnarkySnowman's ability is something that SnarkySnowman himself will claim as true. He's already implied as much without explicitly stating it.

Oh please. You should be seeing that I have been largely right in my posts you ridiculed on my reads. I went through and looked, given the Skybird flip, if and how Farside could be scum.

Your own internal circling doesn't count as progression given you systemically exclude the mere possibility that I am right.

Furthermore, you won't engage in the possibility of proving me wrong.

It reeks more of someone who feels they are right and excludes evidence to the contrary.

[Titus]

Here is were the hypothetically shit is getting missed.
When did dgb plan with twie to be in alliance together?

DGB forced it.

And how does that = Scum together?

She wanted to talk to the scumteam to plan.

[Titus]

Simple thing is Farside, there's zero reason for town you not to vote TWIE.

Either a) we remove a false guilty and clear you as town or b) we lynch scum.

Town you should never be voting Snarky.

[Titus]

Because currently the desire to lynch twie is based on the hypothetically dgb got info from twie as scum.

Again all hypothetically and the only one agreeing with this idea is rr.

Also and this is final.
I refuse with every fiber of my being to follow this 3 fucking game day tunnel that is down right getting ridiculous.
I've almost reached the point were I almost want to support my own lynch to be done with this day after fucking day bs attitude that only is far is scum and everyone else is wrong.

No. The desire to lynch TWIE is from Mastina's guilty result.

Creature offered to lynch TWIE before the guilty, and I specifically said that's not how things work.

[Titus]

You get a guilty, you lynch it. That is Occam's Razor.

And have I so much as ONCE said, we don't lynch him at all?

I've been very consistently saying rather the opposite, acknowledging he does need to die.

But what I've also been saying is rather consistently, I am not going to lynch him today.

Skybird giving you power suggests scum wanted you IC over me.

No, it doesn't. Again: if scum wanted me to have the power, then they would have done more than put two (appearing as one) votes on me.

Tell me.
Say kraskaesque had flipped scum.

How would you feel if I made the argument you are making right now?

You, in my shoes, would say no different.

Snarky is suggested town based off the event.

Again, not true. RR already stated why: scum's topic was, by Varsoon's explicit word, shut down. They could not communicate.

TWIE clears Farside if I am wrong. TWIE flip should unify town.

And I have not once denied either of these! I have supported them. I have also said to wait one fucking day for them.

But you refuse to consider it because scum have framed your narrative.

I refuse to consider it because I have a very damn reasonable request of waiting one fucking day to do it, which is not the end of world. ESPECIALLY not when TWIE will be flipping town.

Your request is patently unreasonable.

I have been waiting and waiting and waiting. We have been bickering for days. To insist on more do you can lynch my townreads is infuriating and insulting and says you don't value me, what your role said or anything beyond your damn ego.

I laid out a plan to clear or confirm Farside in 2 days and you're pulling your ears.

You're ignoring a fucking guilty to throw a fit.

[Titus]

You get a guilty, you lynch it. That is Occam's Razor.

And have I so much as ONCE said, we don't lynch him at all?

I've been very consistently saying rather the opposite, acknowledging he does need to die.

But what I've also been saying is rather consistently, I am not going to lynch him today.

Skybird giving you power suggests scum wanted you IC over me.

No, it doesn't. Again: if scum wanted me to have the power, then they would have done more than put two (appearing as one) votes on me.

Tell me.
Say kraskaesque had flipped scum.

How would you feel if I made the argument you are making right now?

You, in my shoes, would say no different.

Snarky is suggested town based off the event.

Again, not true. RR already stated why: scum's topic was, by Varsoon's explicit word, shut down. They could not communicate.

TWIE clears Farside if I am wrong. TWIE flip should unify town.

And I have not once denied either of these! I have supported them. I have also said to wait one fucking day for them.

But you refuse to consider it because scum have framed your narrative.

I refuse to consider it because I have a very damn reasonable request of waiting one fucking day to do it, which is not the end of world. ESPECIALLY not when TWIE will be flipping town.

Oh and if Kraska flipped scum, I would be treating Farside as town because I would suppose scum were bribing me.

[Titus]

Here is were the hypothetically shit is getting missed.
When did dgb plan with twie to be in alliance together?

DGB forced it.

And how does that = Scum together?

She wanted to talk to the scumteam to plan.

So even though it states in dgb role pm she doesn't know the scum team your basing this on....?????
Right, nothing.

DGB being a competent scumhunter and wanting to work with her scumreads.

Again, selective responses. There is zero downside to you voting TWIE. None.

[Titus]

no, Mastina you straight up sheep guilties unless given a strong reason to doubt. I did that more than 4 times in a single time, and I was right every single time. The person who objected was Mathblade who was still postulating I was scum despite getting guilties on both teams in multiball. I had to claw and fight for common sense there too due to the sheer amount of noise she made.

If I say no to delay, my method of clearing or confirming Farside doesn't work. As RR is right, that TWIE and Farside do not necessarily share an alignment.

Read off the play, look at Farside. There's zero town motivation for her not to lynch TWIE. It's a win win, but as scum there's tonnes of motivation to avoid voting TWIE.

[Titus]

Farside, let me be devil's advocate for a second. Snarky did indicate he was trying to be less of a lurk sack. Is it possible he's trying too hard?
p-edit: I don't agree Snarky is "so town" for the record.

I ask you, Titus.
What do you make of this quote, in regards to farside's alignment, and in regards to SnarkySnowman's alignment?

'Cause I don't think this is scum talking to scum.
But it does look like scum talking about scum: "I'm not saying Snarky's town, and I'm not going to defend him, but here I am defending him and indirectly saying he's town". That's literally that post.

Dudette, that's a fucking busywork post trying to shade Snarky.

[Titus]

No my motivation is just to no longer follow Titus since even if twie let's say was town, she would still find a reason to call me scum.
Shes even elaborated some stupid reason to tie me to sky.
the amount of times Titus called me scum even with a flipped scum like skybird and the vCa with my lynch being pushed over confirmed scum dgb just proves she won't stop scum reading me.

DGB was lynched over you at my insistence because I wanted to reevaluate and talk more with Mastina. That's what normal people do. RR and I discussed it. I was actually saying, yes Farside is scummy, but how is she scum. 7 scum is too much. So DGB had to be talking with the scum team.

[Titus]

no, Mastina you straight up sheep guilties unless given a strong reason to doubt. I did that more than 4 times in a single time, and I was right every single time. The person who objected was Mathblade who was still postulating I was scum despite getting guilties on both teams in multiball. I had to claw and fight for common sense there too due to the sheer amount of noise she made.

If I say no to delay, my method of clearing or confirming Farside doesn't work.

As RR is right, that TWIE and Farside do not necessarily share an alignment.

Read off the play, look at Farside. There's zero town motivation for her not to lynch TWIE. It's a win win, but as scum there's tonnes of motivation to avoid voting TWIE.

Bolding proof that twie flip means nothing.

No. A TWIE town flip means you're town. The inverse is not true.

[Titus]

Farside,
I'll vote Shiro with you. Let's see where this goes.
VOTE: Shiro

One, not scum interactions with farside, and two,

Shiro, I get that you think A50 is scum. What about other players? I'm reading through your ISO and you don't say much about other players in the game. Who are you town-reading?

...Not the way you treat a scumbuddy.

Near Town

RR – His interactions show me that he is trying to solve the game. Also the Hydra dissonance. I feel this shows that both heads are active and trying to solve the game.
TheFuzzylogic99 – Based on Math’s read since Math flipped town.
Almost50
Grapes

Null

Kraskaeaque
Xkfyu – I wanted to have a PT with him to better sort him. Part of why I am leaning scum on him is his claim he made in our PT. He’s also making no attempt to sort my alignment. I am not seeing anything in the thread that makes me think he’s town. But I have other input from Steven indicating that he is town. So I'm not sure which way to go here.

Almost Scum

Farside – I felt she was town in our PT. The things putting her here instead of the next level up is the stubbornness and game play like blowing up the Joy Ride and the weird claim. I’m not opposed to lynching her but would rather lynch from my scum pool right now.

Scum Pool

DGB – no attempts to figure the game out and weird claims/gambits.
TWIE – Haven’t seen much from him (if anything). I know this is the way that TWIE normally is, but by now I would expect to start seeing some insights into players.
Snarkysnowman

Still Processing

Shadow Step
Shiro

Not Chara

MagnaofIllusion

McMenno
Creature
Randomidget

Firebringer

I do think it interesting that her Near Town pile has the two names we know to be town as just undescribed, with the two names we don't having a description attached.

That being said: Where do you think Skybird grouped her scumbuddies? She has at least two, if not three. (Four would be seven scum in the game, six groupscum plus DGB. I am not entertaining that as a possibility.) Given the size of the "still processing" list, it's almost an assurance there'd be one in there...but I don't think it'd be two. Tell me, who is the scum in the still processing pile?

There's going to be at least one scum in the null through scum piles, with the main question being whether it's just one or if it's two. Personally, my bet is on two. I DON'T believe she would bus two scum. (Remember, she didn't know DGB was scum for sure!) So, between SnarkySnowman/TWIE/farside22, there is a maximum of one scum. I also think there should

be

one. No surprises on who I think it is.

If not, if you want to expand the pool...you add in kraskaesque and Xkfyu.

So tell me, Titus.

Do you think Skybird put two of her scumbuddies in her scum pile (include farside in there), especially when she was down one scumbuddy already?

Because I don't.

Ok, let's back up. I agree that 7 scum is impossible. That is why if TWIE is town, Farside almost certainly is. 6 scum Farside does not work without DGB in cahoots with the scumteam.

So let's look at Skybird's pool. Skybird has the distinct knowledge of knowing all the Crystal Gems and she would have to townread most of them. She was likely meant to be the endgame scum with her arguing that she is "confirmed" as Connie due to dead, town Yume. She doesn't have the room to townread all her buddies.

[Titus]

no, Mastina you straight up sheep guilties unless given a strong reason to doubt.

And I'm the person the guilty is from, and I'm telling you I have reservations.
In any fucking game, that should be reason enough to qualify as "strong reason to doubt".

Read off the play, look at Farside.

I'm not reading farside from a distanced perspective.
I'm reading farside as a human being.
I'm getting in her head.

And I understand what she's doing as town.

I can't vocalize it, but motivation is my damn specialty as a player and I'm telling you I see it. Do you think I'm lying about seeing a coherent picture? Just because I can't find the right words for it doesn't mean it isn't there.

It's a win win, but as scum there's tonnes of motivation to avoid voting TWIE.

Do you know what there's tons of scum motivation to do in regards to TWIE?

Sheep a fucking guilty, that's what.
As scum, resisting a guilty does NOTHING but draw attention to yourself.
As scum, sheeping a guilty won't give you towncred, but it also is perfectly logical to do...and this applies

regardless of TWIE's alignment

.

If anything, that TWIE doesn't have more votes is proof that TWIE is town, because if TWIE were scum, then scum would know the guilty was legit and just hop on. With them knowing it's a false positive, there may be some hesitance. As in, not joining but not fighting against, hesitance.

Gee, wonder who's shown that attitude?

Thefuzzylogic99 (1): Shadow_Step
Not Voting (12): Kraskaeaque, Thefuzzylogic99, SnarkySnowman

Pretty sure most of these people have had the chance to check in since the guilty claim. I wonder why so few of them are voting TWIE?

Because a) they are scum with TWIE or b) they're town wanting us to solve our shit

And no who got the guilty is NOT a reason to doubt it.

People are lurking because TWIE is scum, you're defending him and actively shitting on my plan to prove Farside's alignment.

[Titus]

My damn speciality is looking at groups and making coherent stories.

[Titus]

Let's take this from a different non-Farside angle.

Do you have absolute proof of who the NK was night 1?

[Titus]

Skybird has the distinct knowledge of knowing all the Crystal Gems and she would have to townread most of them.

Citation needed.

Where was this stated? Skybird gained an alliance with Yume D1, not all the crystal gems, so she'd have to be told.
Where was she told?

If anything, if you wanna talk about townreading the gems, her list disproves that given who the crystal gems actually

are

. (Do

you

know the other two gems, Titus? Because Yume told me their identities.)

She doesn't have the room to townread all her buddies.

Yes. She needs to scumread a scumbuddy. This is a

necessity

.
The question is: does she need to scumread

both

?

I say no. So, one in null, one in scum, one in unsorted, fairly even distribution, is what makes the most logical sense.

I know the gems identities and their roles and which gem shot Skybird.

If you think Yume was screaming that Skybird was Connie, that she did not tell Skybird the gem information, that's insane.

Look at her still processing list. It's practically every non voter in beachapalooza.

Skybird has 5 buddies (Cakez, DGB, doe, doe2 and doe3). Scumreading buddies but needing to sort is great for endgame when confirmed town won't shut up about lynching town.

[Titus]

Because a) they are scum with TWIE

Doesn't matter.
If the guilty is legit, then scum bus TWIE.
Period.
Thinking otherwise is thinking in first-level play and you should ABSOLUTELY not be that naive, Titus.

People are lurking because SnarkySnowman is scum, you're defending him and actively shitting on my plan to prove TWIE's alignment.

Gee, look at what I did to your words.

Now tell me, is that statement any less valid?

...Exactly.

If the guilty is accurate and scum cannot afford to lose the body, the 100% resist, if someone (you) gives them an out to do so. I don't deal in first level second level verbiage. I deal with what makes sense, is open and honest.

Because you're the one ignoring evidence to make noise how you're right while ignoring evidence and shading what doesn't fit your narrative of Farside being a wounded puppy.

[Titus]

My damn speciality is looking at groups and making coherent stories.

As a fellow storyteller.
Let me give you a critique:
You say you make coherent stories.

Sure aint showing them!

Do you have absolute proof of who the NK was night 1?

No, but we do have TWIE's claim that he made Skybird's result accurate, and that would indicate scum tried to kill grapes. Grapes was already a strong townread, so there's little incentive for scum to try and lie/clear grapes. Ergo, regardless of whether TWIE's town or scum, it is very likely his result on Skybird is accurate.

Also, what does getting confirmation grapes was the N1 nightkill actually tell us?

Do you have an answer for that?

Let's be frank here. TWIE's claim means shit. You would need an explanation for why and how Grapes survived given he's not a bulletproof. That's directly trying to sell you Farside town, but let's say you followed this line of hogwash TWIE sold to it's conclusion, you would have a totally necessary different scumread.

[Titus]

If you think Yume was screaming that Skybird was Connie, that she did not tell Skybird the gem information, that's insane.

If you know the gems as you say you do and hold that Skybird was going to townread them, then you're the insane one. Read her list again. Pay attention to the gems.

Skybird has 5 buddies (Cakez, DGB, doe, doe2 and doe3).

DGB does not count as a buddy because there was no confirmation she was scum.

Scumreading buddies but needing to sort is great for endgame when confirmed town won't shut up about lynching town.

Problem: what happens when you're called upon to follow through on your scumreads?

Yes there was, the moment she claimed traitor.

The gems were in still sorting.

[Titus]

If the guilty is accurate and scum cannot afford to lose the body, they 100% resist

Can't be more wrong there.

Scum, knowing the guilty is accurate, and knowing the source comes from

confirmed town

, will not resist.
Look at TWIE! The person the damn guilty is on! Did he deny it? No, not in the least. He said, basically immediately, "oh must be a gunsmith".
He quite literally went, "Why am I being lynched?" to "Guilty, huh? Must be gunsmith". He didn't ask who it was from first. He didn't deny it, saying, "must be wrong".

He flat-out said it was accurate

. THEN, and only THEN, did he ask who got it. It's right there in his iso: 8818 has him assume gunsmith. The LATER post, 8820, is him asking for the source.

If TWIE were scum, I'd expect it to be the other way around. And if he were scum, his first instinct would probably not be, "oh yeah that result is accurate, just wrong". If scum acted the way you said. And if TWIE were one of them. TWIE would be looking for an out. But he's made no effort to give himself one. (SnarkySnowman doesn't count, because SnarkySnowman's ability is a PROVEN ABILITY and therefore not something he is making up.) Quite the opposite! He's set very specific parameters.

I deal with what makes sense, is open and honest.

Apparently not.
Because you're not factoring in that scum are

inherently

bus-happy.

Tell me I'm wrong!
Tell me,

especially with the flips we have

, that the scum have not been bussing a lot.
Your talking's delayed my VCA to do so myself, but go do it on your own, and look me in the face, I'm daring you, to say to my face with that VCA, "The scum haven't been bus-happy".

But they have been.
And if TWIE were scum, there'd be nothing stopping them from being bus-happy again.

I don't know what vote counts you're seeing but each and every scum lynch has been hard faught for with scum standing in the way.

[Titus]

I don't know what vote counts you're seeing but each and every scum lynch has been hard faught for with scum standing in the way.

Do tell.

Because VCA preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty much shows otherwise.

It's DWTS right now (you actually made me miss the opener, not to mention, my dinner), so no proof. I didn't get Skybird's iso finished, yet alone Varsoon's. But when you've shut up, I've responded to everything, and DWTS is over, I'll show it.

Great, then we'll color the vote counts and show it.

But for now, pretty sure given no one healed grapes and grapes wasn't BP, that should be all the evidence there.

I am watching the voice and eating dinner now.

[Titus]

Spoiler: Selected Vote Counts

"I thought we agreed there was no Slinker, and we weren't going to call it 'The Slinker'."

-Amethyst

"Yes we did. But now it's undeniable the creature exists, and that Steven's name stuck."

-Garnet,

Reformed

VOTECOUNT 1.09

Not Chara (6):

grapes, Skybird, Yume, Almost50, Kraskaeaque

Reasonably Rational (4):

McMenno, DrippingGoofball, mastin2, Farside22

McMenno (3):

CooLDoG, SirCakez, Seraphim

Klingoncelt (2):

Firebringer, Obi-Wan Kenobi

Almost50 (2):

Shiro, Creature

SirCakez (1):

Not Chara

Creature (1):

Xkfyu

Farside22 (1):

SnarkySnowman

Not Voting (6):

Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Reasonably Rational, killthestory, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-21 15:10:00)

The Current Stress is -1:

"Well, what do you want? Just tell me and I'll do that!"

-Amethyst,

Reformed

VOTECOUNT 1.10

SirCakez (5):

Not Chara, Yume, mastin2, Obi-Wan Kenobi, McMenno

Not Chara (3):

grapes, Skybird, Kraskaeaque

Reasonably Rational (3):

DrippingGoofball, Farside22, Firebringer

McMenno (3):

CooLDoG, SirCakez, Seraphim

Almost50 (2):

Shiro, Creature

Creature (2):

Xkfyu, Almost50

Farside22 (1):

SnarkySnowman

Not Voting (6):

Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Reasonably Rational, killthestory, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-21 15:10:00)

The Current Stress is -1:

"This is an Ancient Sky Arena, Connie, where some of the first battles for Earth took place. It was here that I became familiar with the human concept of being a knight, completely dedicated to a person and a cause. This is what you must become, Connie; brave, selfless, loyal... a knight!"

-Pearl,

Sworn to the Sword

VOTECOUNT 1.11

SirCakez (5):

Not Chara, Yume, mastin2, Obi-Wan Kenobi, McMenno

McMenno (3):

CooLDoG, SirCakez, Seraphim

Not Chara (2):

grapes, Kraskaeaque

Reasonably Rational (2):

DrippingGoofball, Firebringer

Almost50 (2):

Shiro, Creature

Creature (2):

Xkfyu, Almost50

Shiro (2):

Farside22, Skybird

Farside22 (1):

SnarkySnowman

Not Voting (6):

Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Reasonably Rational, killthestory, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-21 15:10:00)

The Current Stress is -1:

I've got work today from noon to 6, so don't expect a VC until after that.

"Deep down, I know that I'm just a human—"

-Connie

"--but you know that you can draw your sword and fight."

-Pearl,

Sworn to the Sword

VOTECOUNT 1.12

SirCakez (7):

Not Chara, mastin2, Obi-Wan Kenobi, McMenno, Yume, grapes, Shiro

Shiro (4):

Farside22, Skybird, Almost50

Skybird (2):

killthestory, Creature

McMenno (2):

CooLDoG, Seraphim

Not Chara (1):

Kraskaeaque

Creature (1):

Xkfyu

Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):

SirCakez

Klingoncelt (1)

Firebringer

Farside22 (1):

SnarkySnowman

Not Voting (6):

Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Reasonably Rational, randomidget, TheWayItEnds, DrippingGoofball

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-21 15:10:00)

The Current Stress is -1:

To be clear:
In general, an Event that is beneficial to town will lower the Stress.
In general, an Event that is bad for town will increase the Stress.
Negative (or lower) Stress is reflective of town doing well, but it also tends to enable anti-town abilities and events.
Positive (or higher) Stress is reflective of town doing poorly, but it also tends to enable pro-town abilities and events.
The Scum Team's Factional Events tend to be anti-town Events that require low stress.
The Scum Team's personal Events tend to be pro-town Events that require high stress and are tied to their fakeclaim.
Not every Event will change the stress meter. If an Event does, it will be detailed in that Event's description.

"Back during the war, Pearl took pride in risking her destruction for your mother.
She put Rose Quartz over everything; over logic, over consequence, over her own life."

-Garnet,

Sworn to the Sword

VOTECOUNT 1.13

SirCakez (10):

Not Chara, mastin2, Obi-Wan Kenobi, McMenno, Yume, grapes, Shiro, Firebringer, Reasonably Rational, SnarkySnowman

Shiro (4):

Farside22, Skybird, Almost50

Firebringer (2):

Klingoncelt

McMenno (2):

CooLDoG, Seraphim

Skybird (1):

Creature

Not Chara (1):

Kraskaeaque

Creature (1):

Xkfyu

Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):

SirCakez

Farside22 (1):

killthestory

Not Voting (4):

Foxbird, randomidget, TheWayItEnds, DrippingGoofball

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-21 15:10:00)

The Current Stress is -1:

I am currently searching for a replacement for Seraphim.

"Beach City, a sleepy seaside town. From far away, it looks ordinary, but take a closer look, and you'll start to notice the cracks in the facade."

-Ronaldo,

Rising Tides, Crashing Skies

VOTECOUNT 1.14

SirCakez (10):

Not Chara, mastin2, Obi-Wan Kenobi, McMenno, grapes, Shiro, Xkfyu, SnarkySnowman, Yume, Kraskaeaque

Farside22 (3):

killthestory, Firebringer, Almost50

Shiro (2):

Farside22, Skybird

Firebringer (2):

Klingoncelt

McMenno (2):

CooLDoG, Thefuzzylogic99

Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):

SirCakez

Not Voting (6):

Foxbird, randomidget, TheWayItEnds, DrippingGoofball, Creature, Reasonably Rational

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-21 15:10:00)

The Current Stress is -1:

Peridot @Peridot5xg tweeted: C’mon already! Can we please lynch someone?!!!!!!1

"You can't make up drama this good!"

-Ronaldo,

Rising Tides, Crashing Skies

VOTECOUNT 1.15

SirCakez (12):

Not Chara, mastin2, Obi-Wan Kenobi, McMenno, grapes, Shiro, Xkfyu, SnarkySnowman, Yume, Kraskaeaque, Klingoncelt

Farside22 (3):

killthestory, Firebringer, Almost50

Shiro (2):

Farside22, Skybird

McMenno (2):

CooLDoG, Thefuzzylogic99

Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):

SirCakez

Not Voting (6):

Foxbird, randomidget, TheWayItEnds, DrippingGoofball, Creature, Reasonably Rational

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-21 15:10:00)

The Current Stress is -1:

Peridot @Peridot5xg tweeted: Let's get dat stress level up too!

" But all the monsters just come here to get you guys, and then wreck things and put us in danger! Beach City would be way safer if you guys weren't here!"

-Ronaldo,

Rising Tides, Crashing Skies

VOTECOUNT 1.16 : LYNCH!

SirCakez (LYNCH):

Not Chara, mastin2, Obi-Wan Kenobi, McMenno, grapes, Shiro, Xkfyu, SnarkySnowman, Yume, Kraskaeaque, Klingoncelt, Reasonably Rational

Farside22 (3):

killthestory, Firebringer, Almost50

Shiro (2):

Farside22, Skybird

McMenno (2):

CooLDoG, Thefuzzylogic99

Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):

SirCakez

Not Voting (5):

Foxbird, randomidget, TheWayItEnds, DrippingGoofball, Creature

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-21 15:10:00)

The Current Stress is -1:

"This is my first production, so it needs to be exciting! It needs to be classic! It needs to be fully funded by Mayor Dewey. And it is... because he wrote it."

-Jamie,

Historical Friction

VOTECOUNT 2.14

Mathblade (8):

mastin2, Almost50, Xkfyu, McMenno, DrippingGoofball, Yume, Titus, Creature

DrippingGoofball (6):

Klingoncelt, Not Chara, Firebringer, SnarkySnowman, Shiro, Mathblade

Shiro (1):

Farside22

Shadow_Step (1):

Kraskaeaque

Farside22 (1):

randomidget

grapes (1):

killthestory

Xkfyu (1):

Skybird

Kraskaeaque (1):

grapes

TheFuzzyLogic99 (1):

Shadow_Step

Not Voting (3):

Reasonably Rational, TheWayItEnds, TheFuzzylogic99

With 24 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-02 00:10:00)

The Current Stress is +1:

Skybird and Farside22 are V/LA until 9/25/2016
Xkfyu is V/LA until 9/26/2016

"This planet has an expiration date, and I'm not gonna stick around to find out when!"

-Peridot,

Friend Ship

VOTECOUNT 2.16

Mathblade (

LYNCH

):

mastin2, Almost50, Xkfyu, McMenno, DrippingGoofball, Yume, Titus, Creature, Farside22, Not Chara, grapes, Mathblade, Firebringer

DrippingGoofball (3):

Klingoncelt, SnarkySnowman, Shiro

Shadow_Step (1):

Kraskaeaque

Farside22 (1):

randomidget

grapes (1):

killthestory

Xkfyu (1):

Skybird

TheFuzzyLogic99 (1):

Shadow_Step

Not Voting (3):

Reasonably Rational, TheWayItEnds, TheFuzzylogic99

With 24 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-02 00:10:00)

The Current Stress is +1:

Skybird and Farside22 are V/LA until 9/25/2016
Xkfyu is V/LA until 9/26/2016

"What? Your eyesight just magically got better?!"

-Dr. Maheswaran

"Yes!"

-Connie,

Nightmare Hospital

VOTECOUNT 3.02

Farside22 (7)

Titus, SnarkySnowman, MagnaofIllusion, TheWayItEnds, grapes, DrippingGoofball, Creature

DrippingGoofball (1):

Not Chara

Not Chara (1):

McMenno

Shadow_Step (1):

Kraskaeaque

Not Voting (12):

Shadow_Step, Xkfyu, Skybird, Almost50, Shiro, Farside22, Yume, Reasonably Rational, mastin2, Firebringer, Thefuzzylogic99, randomidget

With 22 Alive, it takes 12 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-13 05:20:00)

The Current Stress is 0:

Farside22 is V/LA until Friday, 10/07/2016.

"Aw, anybody can sound fine singing along with that song. It's so cheesy, and dumb, and-and catchy, and...
I know every single word."

-Sadie,

Sadie's Song

VOTECOUNT 3.03

Farside22 (7)

Titus, SnarkySnowman, MagnaofIllusion, TheWayItEnds, grapes, DrippingGoofball, Creature

DrippingGoofball (3):

Shiro, Thefuzzylogic99, Not Chara

Shadow_Step (3):

Kraskaeaque, Firebringer, McMenno

Skybird (1):

Farside22

Firebringer (1):

Yume

Not Voting (7):

Shadow_Step, Xkfyu, Skybird, Almost50, Reasonably Rational, mastin2, randomidget

With 22 Alive, it takes 12 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-13 05:20:00)

The Current Stress is 0:

Farside22 is V/LA until Friday, 10/07/2016.

"Ever since my act two years ago, there's been a rule that you gotta wear clothes."

-Steven,

Sadie's Song

VOTECOUNT 3.04

Farside22 (7):

Titus, SnarkySnowman, MagnaofIllusion, TheWayItEnds, grapes, DrippingGoofball, Creature

DrippingGoofball (3):

Shiro, Thefuzzylogic99, Not Chara

Shadow_Step (2):

Kraskaeaque, Firebringer

Firebringer (1):

Yume

Skybird (1):

Farside22

Not Voting (8):

Shadow_Step, Xkfyu, Skybird, Almost50, Reasonably Rational, mastin2, randomidget, McMenno

With 22 Alive, it takes 12 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-13 05:20:00)

The Current Stress is 0:

Farside22 is V/LA until Friday, 10/07/2016.

"You get this next act from their day job, delivering pizza! But tonight, they're delivering jokes!
...That was a joke!"

-Mr. Smiley,

Sadie's Song

VOTECOUNT 3.05

Farside22 (9):

Titus, SnarkySnowman, MagnaofIllusion, TheWayItEnds, grapes, DrippingGoofball, Skybird, Yume, Xkfyu

DrippingGoofball (6):

Shiro, Thefuzzylogic99, Not Chara, McMenno, Creature, Farside22

Shadow_Step (2):

Kraskaeaque, Firebringer

Creature (1):

Almost50

Xkfyu (1):

Shadow_Step

Not Voting (3):

Reasonably Rational, mastin2, randomidget

With 22 Alive, it takes 12 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-13 05:20:00)

The Current Stress is 0:

Farside22 is V/LA until Friday, 10/07/2016.

"It doesn't matter what Earth is like! It's not going to be like anything soon!"

-Peridot,

Catch and Release

VOTECOUNT 3.06

Farside22 (9):

Titus, SnarkySnowman, MagnaofIllusion, TheWayItEnds, grapes, DrippingGoofball, Skybird, Yume, Xkfyu

DrippingGoofball (6):

Shiro, Thefuzzylogic99, Not Chara, McMenno, Creature, Farside22

Shadow_Step (2):

Kraskaeaque, Firebringer

Creature (1):

Almost50

Xkfyu (1):

Shadow_Step

Not Voting (3):

Reasonably Rational, mastin2, randomidget

With 22 Alive, it takes 12 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-13 05:20:00)

The Current Stress is 0:

Farside22 is V/LA until Friday, 10/07/2016.
Not Chara is V/LA until Saturday, 10/09/2016

"I'm back to kidnap you!
What, it's been long enough that we can joke about it, right?"

-Amethyst

"It's only been, like, an hour."

-Steven,

Catch and Release

VOTECOUNT 3.07

Farside22 (8):

Titus, SnarkySnowman, MagnaofIllusion, TheWayItEnds, DrippingGoofball, Skybird, Yume, Xkfyu

DrippingGoofball (6):

Shiro, Thefuzzylogic99, Not Chara, McMenno, Creature, Farside22

Kraskaesque (3):

mastin2, grapes, Shadow_Step

Shadow_Step (2):

Kraskaeaque, Firebringer

Creature (1):

Almost50

Not Voting (2):

Reasonably Rational, randomidget

With 22 Alive, it takes 12 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-13 05:20:00)

The Current Stress is +1:

Farside22 is V/LA until Friday, 10/07/2016.
Not Chara is V/LA until Saturday, 10/08/2016
MagnaofIllusion is V/LA until Monday, 10/10/2016

"Don't worry, she's harmless without her limb enhancers."

-Pearl

"I'm not harmless!!"

-Peridot,

When It Rains

VOTECOUNT 3.08 : NOT A LYNCH?

Farside22 (LYNCH?):

Titus, SnarkySnowman, MagnaofIllusion, TheWayItEnds, DrippingGoofball, Skybird, Yume, Xkfyu, Not Chara, McMenno, Kraskaeaque, Almost50

DrippingGoofball (3):

Shiro, Thefuzzylogic99, Creature

SnarkySnowman (3):

mastin2, grapes, Farside22

Kraskaesque (1):

Shadow_Step

Shadow_Step (1):

Firebringer

Not Voting (2):

Reasonably Rational, randomidget

With 22 Alive, it takes 12 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-13 05:20:00)

The Current Stress is +1:

Not Chara is V/LA until Saturday, 10/08/2016
MagnaofIllusion is V/LA until Monday, 10/10/2016
Xkfyu is V/LA until Monday, 10/10/2016

[/quote]

"Let's run into this corner! Oh no!"

-Steven

"We're cornered!"

-Peridot,

When It Rains

VOTECOUNT 3.10

SnarkySnowman (6):

McMenno, Farside22, Titus, Not Chara, grapes, mastin2

Farside22 (2):

Yume, Almost50

Not Voting (14):

Shadow_Step, Xkfyu, Skybird, Shiro, DrippingGoofball, Reasonably Rational, Kraskaeaque, MagnaofIllusion, Firebringer, Thefuzzylogic99, SnarkySnowman, Creature, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 22 Alive, it takes 12 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-22 19:50:00)

The Current Stress is +1:

MagnaofIllusion is V/LA until Monday, 10/10/2016
Xkfyu is V/LA until Monday, 10/10/2016

"Wait! I have a better idea that doesn't involve destroying the house!"

-Steven

"Classic Steven."

-Amethyst,

Back to the Barn

VOTECOUNT 3.11

SnarkySnowman (7):

McMenno, Farside22, Titus, Not Chara, grapes, mastin2, TheWayItEnds

DrippingGoofball (4):

Thefuzzylogic99, SnarkySnowman, MagnaofIllusion, Creature

Farside22 (1):

Almost50

Not Voting (9):

Shadow_Step, Xkfyu, Skybird, Shiro, DrippingGoofball, Reasonably Rational, Kraskaeaque, Firebringer, randomidget

With 21 Alive, it takes 11 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-22 19:50:00)

The Current Stress is +2:

"Pearls aren't for this! They're for standing around, and looking nice, and holding your stuff for you... right?"

-Peridot,

Back to the Barn

VOTECOUNT 3.12 : LYNCH

DrippingGoofball (LYNCH):

Thefuzzylogic99, SnarkySnowman, MagnaofIllusion, Creature, Titus, Shiro, Firebringer, grapes, McMenno, Farside22, Not Chara

SnarkySnowman (2):

mastin2, TheWayItEnds

Farside22 (1):

Almost50

Shadow_Step (1):

Kraskaeaque

Not Voting (5):

Shadow_Step, Xkfyu, DrippingGoofball, Reasonably Rational, randomidget

With 20 Alive, it takes 11 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-22 19:50:00)

The Current Stress is +2:

Day 1:

SirCakez voted me, Mcmenno
Skybird voted NC and Shiro (maybe a bus, but unlikely given SC was the other option)
DGB sat on RR (you would have to case RR here but you're townreading him, so not a bus).

Day 2 - Day 3:
Skybird never voted DGB.

The bussing

just

is not there with flipped scum. You're supposing your argument is correct with vca unless you have a RR scumread you never revealed.

[Titus]

Yes there was, the moment she claimed traitor.

And the scum wouldn't know for sure she actually was one. No more than the town would.

The gems were in still sorting.

Yes. Exactly. Still sorting. Not town.

Skybird did not know the crystal gems in all likelihood. (Which actually makes me feel much better about them actually.)

She did. She could never stick them as scum so she towns or sorts them.

[Titus]

conf gem actually

I would bet my bottom dollar X is town.

[Titus]

Ok I'm going to put an end to this.

Not Chara passively protected Grapes while they were allied. Not Chara also didn't claim to Grapes while they were allied. Therefore, Grapes didn't know he was being protected.

Knowing this, Skybird more than likely really did try to kill Grapes. Therefore, TWIE wouldn't have revealed Skybird's attempt to kill Grapes, giving town yet another confirmed town, if they were scum together.

That...makes a lot of sense.

-Cerb

So, scum know NC's role? Then why did she lie to us. Not even a reflexively targeting Grapes? Read quality plummets when people lie.

[Titus]

is he not a gem

The gems are probably town with how this is shaking out and the clarification I got on Jasper's pm, but even if x is not a gem, he's conftown.

[Titus]

I don't know what vote counts you're seeing but each and every scum lynch has been hard faught for with scum standing in the way.

Do tell.

Because VCA preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty much shows otherwise.

It's DWTS right now (you actually made me miss the opener, not to mention, my dinner), so no proof. I didn't get Skybird's iso finished, yet alone Varsoon's. But when you've shut up, I've responded to everything, and DWTS is over, I'll show it.

Great, then we'll color the vote counts and show it.

But for now, pretty sure given no one healed grapes and grapes wasn't BP, that should be all the evidence there.

I am watching the voice and eating dinner now.

How do we know either of those things, that nobody healed grapes and he isn't BP? You said yourself we have like "7" protectives.

-Cerb

The number 7 came from my gut. No foundation.

Yet, I supposed that NC did not lie in her statement. Sue me that I suppose town are honest.

[Titus]

Can someone give me a reason to scumread Snarky that doesn't center on listening to TWIE scum with a guilty on him?

McMenno, Math and I argued about how to treat GS results. They are to be treated as guilties unless there's a strong reason not to. One hasn't been provided. Even if Grapes is the scumkill, TWIE did not tell us anything we didn't already know.

[Titus]

Ok I'm going to put an end to this.

Not Chara passively protected Grapes while they were allied. Not Chara also didn't claim to Grapes while they were allied. Therefore, Grapes didn't know he was being protected.

Knowing this, Skybird more than likely really did try to kill Grapes. Therefore, TWIE wouldn't have revealed Skybird's attempt to kill Grapes, giving town yet another confirmed town, if they were scum together.

That...makes a lot of sense.

-Cerb

So, scum know NC's role? Then why did she lie to us. Not even a reflexively targeting Grapes? Read quality plummets when people lie.

Why would scum know NC'S role?

It seems pretty obvious that the gems are able to chat with people before they die (as evidenced by MoI mentioning that NCs scumread on me has increased), so it seems this information was likely claimed by NC posthumously, in whatever chat the gems have access to. If we're certain there is a scum slot among the gems, then scum learned this whenever NC told the rest of the gems, but there's no reason to think they knew about it any earlier.

-Cerb

Pedit: oh, you mean n1 action. They said it was passive Titus. There wouldn't be anything to claim?

It was an action. Period. Passives are things that don't effect other players, like my BP.. It should have been submitted, especially in the light of the NK. We know NC isn't scum but this shit pisses me off.

You think scum don't have a rolecop given all this power?

[Titus]

Umm.

Nothing TWIE has said has anything to do with scumreading snarky?

-Cerb

TWIE preemptively claimed Snarky blocked him to explain why his vig will not work.

[Titus]

Ascetic doubled, DGB was probably more of a scum backup type but that is speculating.

Of course TWIE would. Even if he didn't, it's a convienently excuse he did not out until AFTER we talked about leaching him.

[Titus]

Ascetic doubled, DGB was probably more of a scum backup type but that is speculating.

Of course TWIE would. Even if he didn't, it's a convienently excuse he did not out until AFTER we talked about leaching him.

Why would he lie about being blocked+claim a vig, when he could have instead claimed any number of killing abilities thst don't rely upon another slot blocking him? If he had been the one to suggest removing snarky to allow him to prove his claim I'd be inclined to agree with you, but he didn't. That was wholly conftowns idea.

-Cerb

Yeah, the same conftown that comes up with excuses not to lynch her guilty.

Lie and claim blocked explains no second kill so TWIE can pretend to be a "season finale" vig as scum.

TWIE's result did not tell us anything we didn't know. Namely, grapes is town.

There's no reason to keep TWIE alive.

The worst case scenario, we clear Farside.

There's no clear from lynching Snarky. We just wreck my plan.

[Titus]

TWIE's result did not tell us anything we didn't know. Namely, grapes is town.

And you believe that scum TWIE revealed that to us intentionally? Because what, he didn't think there were enough confirmed town running around in this game already?

Grapes was already nearly confirmed.

Oh and yeah here comes Farside hammering the mislynch.

[Titus]

Good game everyone.

Mastina, we'll have a few minor words on pushing TWIE and taking credit for that but you made the right decision. I am proud overall. Titus and Mastina, we may argue but Transparent Obscurity wins every time.

[Titus]

RR, I think me triggering Beach and you not accounting for me winning as an IC really wrecked you up. At the time, we did not know who scum were, and I assumed we'd get that information at the end of Beach event. Instead what we got was Mastina/NC confirmed not group scum in a day or two (I still label Farside as evil 3p), and various piles which really helped narrow down pools of scum. You likely knew, or should have known, I was going to pop my IC. The actions surrounding not giving a townread innocent child power suggested scum picked Mastina.

I had suspected you and if Mastina hammerred wrong, I would have regretted letting you go on Day 2 to trigger your event. To me, that event was an albatross as it provided a mod confirmed check against group scum scenarios.

[Titus]

1) The SC wagon. This was a bit of shitshow. We were prepared to step in and keep SC from being lynched, however his posting, for the most part, never really dissuaded anyone in and of itself. Even though we knew his loss would be a major blow to us, especially given that it would remove any uncertainty from the DGB/KC situation(even though somehow it didn't....), we couldn't risk throwing good money after bad, as it were, and risking our slots who were decently positioned.

Yeah I was utter garbage this game
Even though we ultimately lost, you should be proud of how far you got.

You were not shit. I had to zoom tunnel you and almost lost you. You caught Farside in your web and set up a huge distraction.

[Titus]

So, what does everyone think about my play?

Note: 'Everyone' disincludes Firebringer and his alts

Guessing this is Yume.

I think you dramatically improved in your assertiveness. You functioned well. Your job was to confirm Mastina and you stood well against an onslaught trying to get you to unconfirm Mastina (taking advantage of us needing to be sure).

Although I was sad at the time, it was an improvement for you to make up your own mind and stand firm on who should be aligned with whom.

I know you look up to me and that was hard. I am proud.

[Titus]

Varsoon, I tried to rally CG paranoia as soon as I discovered they had lied to conftown, but nobody cared.

If nobody cares about a faction with a hidden win con lying to conftown, then there were no circumstances under which they'd be paranoia about the gems in large enough numbers to actually lynch them.

I think the gems should have been smaller and not stuck to flavor. That would help. The setup was balanced but I see his point.

The situation was what made the lie ok, not the actual lying to conftown. I lie to conftown rarely. It wasn't just they lied.

A mechanic where one gem is actually scum also would work. I was suspecting it, and that angle works better as you can point them all as confbiased and lying together.

[Titus]

Yeah, I really should've gone with Peridot as a plant in the CGs rather than a neutral that can align one way or the other.
Still, I like the idea for the CGs, and glad I got to run it.

It was a good idea. Masons tend to be auto sheep, which your mechanic changed that by having them do a survival mechanic.

I have an idea on this to spin, which we can talk about because it has kinks.

[Titus]

@Cerb, I'd rather table balance discussion and get your feedback on my play. I do think some of the balance issues, assuming there were any, were exacerbated by your event firing with your plan, rather than giving me a GS shot.

[Titus]

@Titus: whether you or mastin won was immaterial. We chose mastin purely for the sake of consistency in the plan I had outlined to you and yume.

It was though, and you should have aborted when I objected and you knew or should have know I was triggerring my IC. You did get Mastina a win, but at the expense of revealing a scum mastermind.

If you said, Titus will confirm herself as town most likely, we should elect Titus en masse and play to her pride, town gets a lot less info. Mastina looks better and thus I compromise onto Snarky/town faster, rather than leading a DGB lynch. There's also less data on numbers with split wagons. We had a three pronged equation with the division instead of there are x many group scum.

[Titus]

@Yume, Feedback for me? I left you some you didn't see.

[Titus]

And I couldn't care less about anyone's play if they weren't alive in the last two day phases.

This game has gone on so long that I have difficulty recalling what occurred early game.

Pedit: we had no reason to think you'd trigger an IC.

You may have thought you were clear, but you weren't.

@Varsoon: I'm not suggesting the scum team should have KNOWN about the weakness. I'm saying that we were incentivized to kill them, and so the closer we got to killing then all, the less the weakness mattered.

I want to read your PT at the time but I am kinda surprised you didn't pick up on it.

It's unfortunate you have no feedback for me. I was looking forward to it.

I think your day play was awesome for the record after the first couple days which is why I almost regretted letting you live day 2.

[Titus]

I am also kinda surprised that when I flipped no one suspected TWIE of lying about who the N1 kill was. I suppose that's because I didn't full tunnel on RR immediately (had reasons, I wanted RR to wear their PR like an albatross necklace). I'm not sure why. There was no nightkill. A PR flipped that was bulletproof to its ally, just tunnelled on scum, and the neighbor was reluctant to vote scum. It was true that grapes was shot, but I'm surprised that didn't turn into RR caught for the wrong reasons.

[Titus]

@Titus: whether you or mastin won was immaterial. We chose mastin purely for the sake of consistency in the plan I had outlined to you and yume.

It was though, and you should have aborted when I objected and you knew or should have know I was triggerring my IC. You did get Mastina a win, but at the expense of revealing a scum mastermind.

If you said, Titus will confirm herself as town most likely, we should elect Titus en masse and play to her pride, town gets a lot less info. Mastina looks better and thus I compromise onto Snarky/town faster, rather than leading a DGB lynch. There's also less data on numbers with split wagons. We had a three pronged equation with the division instead of there are x many group scum.

The beachapalooza vote division was meaningless. It ended up being useless because of the NC/Farside votes(which we expected, btw. Not them exactly, but that some alliance would make the floor 5 votes). Matin was right that it was never used to lynch someone, and it never could have been used.

Seriously, the event wasn't important other than giving mastin a gunsmith.

Revealing that there was a "mastermind" also wasn't important. None of the arguments against us that were substantial were based on that. Mastin tried a bit in the midgame, but it wasn't a threat.
The eventual choice she made was based off of her inability to absorb all the information available fast enough. I'm quote confident that had she had the time to actually respond to everything drixx was saying, and read through the rest of the game, she wouldn't have voted for us.


Granred, this is all hindsight. It's possible that it would have been BETTER to handle beachapalooza differently, but I don't believe it hurt us in any significant fashion.

I think you're wrong.

With the beachpalooza, we got solid math.

7 on Mastina
6 on Titus
5 on Not Chara

Anyone not in the loop usually votes to give conftown power. If you had decided to follow me as an IC, we likely would get

13 on Titus
5 on Not Chara

While this practically eliminates Farside as group scum in a day or two at most, the closest thing scum gets is an approximate number of players. The no submissions even throw that off. We know that for every scum that voted, someone must say no vote, but a significant number of town no voted. We'd be lynching in the no-voters for days, with flips revealing relatively little. Only when town felt confident in the bottom pool, would they turn to you in the top. This does not reveal a mastermind or a planner at all.

The split that we did get, suggested there was a coordinated effort AGAINST an IC and quickly revealed which players were on the inside and versus the outside. An IC always feels that they will win such an event. I made several proclaimations to that effect that I'd be winning and was genuinely shocked when I did not win, given my skill as a gunsmith. (Speaking of which Mastina, ALWAYS lynch a GS guilty if they claim vig that never shot. ALWAYS.) In order to have the votes match and not reveal that the gems and scum agreed on Mastina, the votes in the scum chat had to be planned. Thus, Mastermind and two pools to work with that had to add up to a certain number rather than 1.

Eventually, the math would have narrowed down with the flips to where only certain slots could be scum. I think Mastina reaches a comfortable solution faster if they factored this math in. This math is why I resisted your wagon D2, even though it was mostly if not all town.

[Titus]

@Drixx/Magna, I would love your feedback.

@Drixx, I saw your scum pt through 121 and you were thisclose to realizing I was IC.

[Titus]

Hey KTS, you faking IC was so hard not to scumread you. I didn't know if you were covering for me being a little ahem less than subtle or what... I hope I didn't wreck your plans or annoy you too badly. I struggled with that.

[Titus]

Hey KTS, you faking IC was so hard not to scumread you. I didn't know if you were covering for me being a little ahem less than subtle or what... I hope I didn't wreck your plans or annoy you too badly. I struggled with that.

um lol if i claimed ic then it was probably for a different reason, so no worries

but i'll be honest i can't even remember this game

Ok, I'm TRYING to be more sensitive as town and it was something I remembered.

I think RR were excellent sports and putting on a show.

[Titus]

between this game and Undertale, i'd really like to stop TvTing Titus. one day...

Next millienium.

I'm working on my pride thing. I usually have one or two wrong reads to eliminate, and then all falls into place. Masons are frequently that.

If I'm butting heads with you, unless you're insulting me personally and sometimes then, it's a sign I view you as smart enough to get frustrated with. I hope that comes out right.

[Titus]

I'd love your feedback though.

[Titus]

GG all.

@Mastina:

Good Reads and GOOD DETERMINATION.

@RR:

You guys are GREAT. I enjoyed your Scum play even more than I had enjoyed your Town play before.

@Creature:

Yeah, I'll be sure to change my profile soon enough!

@Shiro:

Your "gut" isn't any better than mine!

@Grapes:

You too! We should be competing for the wooden spoon trophy or something!!

@MoI:

Once again, SORRY for the outburst, but it REALLY peeved me that you skimmed and misread (and thus misrepresented) everything I said in our PT.

@Far:

Your play is scummy. End of.

@Yume:

I have yet to see you play a better game, despite having rusted Sky too much.

@Titus:

You're one of the few players who CAN tell the difference between my Town play and my Scum play.

@Varsoon:

You're A LEGEND!

Yea drixx fooled me at the end. Dx I thought he was town there.after the lynch, thank god I followed my mechcanil anylisis after all

*shrug* Looking at the mechanics, there should have been more scum. SOMETHING MORE anti-town needed to exist. We weren't just using that to push people, it was legitimately the viewpoint town!us would have with what we had seen of the setup.

Like, we were so sure that there was another anti-town role of some sort that when Varsoon forgot to adjust the lynch threshold when grapes was returned to the game, we started speculating about how he could possibly be another anti-town role, and maybe somebody else was a survivor or something, so we were in LYLO.

Point is, your mechanical analysis was wrong/the game just wasn't balanced. ^^

I thought the same of SU1 for the record, but I feel you were great sportsmen for lasting as long as you did. Sometimes, you just feel you gotta put on a show.

Once, I subbed into a slot that left because it knew it was getting roleblocked with 3 or so mislynches as last scum. I got turbolynched but people were like yeah don't even count this.

[Titus]

(Exact Stats: 1989/2000 in Sent Messages.
56/2000 in my Outbox.
65/2000 in my Personal PMs folder.
803/2000 in my Role PMs folder.
397/2000 in my Hydras folder.
1519/2000 in my Modding folder.
24/2000 in the default Saved messages folder.
And 1106/2000 in my Inbox.
Grant total, 5,959 PMs.

Keep in mind the OLD limit was 1,000 until I specifically requested expansion.)

I'm at full max almost constantly.

Yes, my addict card is showing.

[Titus]

Tbh, choosing to act on my IC was one of the hardest choices ever given cluster.

I just felt it was so informative, with RR trying to buddy Mastina.

[Titus]

We approve releasing our hydra PT, sorry for not having this sooner. I forgot to pm beeboy, only left him a skype message.

I still view as picking Mastina over me to get the gunsmith shot as buddying but prolly my ego.