Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)

[Khelvaster]

Sucks the cop is dead, but yay so is the cult. The delayed recruit will be wandering around tomorrow with no friends. (Survivor is a fun role, right?)

Out of curiousity, why are some of the numbers in the list bolded and some arn't?

Woah. How do you know...

1. There is a cult recruit?
2. This recruit is also 'delayed'?

Unvote, Vote: Nemesis

This is Bandwagon worthy.

BM

Wow, BM, way to be an idiot. It's obvious that the cult recruiter would have recruited...why wouldn't he? Also, the delayed cult recruiter, by definition, delays the recruit knowing he was recruited.

Vote: BM

for trying to make a BW without justification.

[Khelvaster]

FoS Skitzer

Playstyle is one thing. Acting scummy is another. If BM acts scummy, I will get him lynched. He is an attention seeker--if we make exceptions for him because of his scummy behavior, a slippery slope could ensue. As far as I'm concerned, he will screw us over if he is scum, since his playstyle will be like this no matter what. A great scumtactic would be

"let's get BM to go major scum, then defend him. People will let him go because of his massive scumminess, and he'll distract the town from real playing."

[Khelvaster]

I'm going to

FOS: Battle Mage

. Yeah, he tried to start a bandwagon, but I was thinking the same thing he was when I read Nemesis's post. Granted I've never played in games with delayed anythings(or cults at all). One thing I am a little surprised by is his miller claim, but if he were scum then claiming miller after a cop dies seems a little dumb. If I were town and my cop died, I think I'd make sure that any backup cop doesn't waste any investigations. I think it's enough to be a little suspicious but I'm not going to vote him yet.

What confused me was that Battle Mage cast his initial random vote towards Khelvaster. Not suspicious since it is a random vote, but he says

I know there not a lot of love loss between you and I, but i'd rather if you're town, we dont interfere with each others scumdars in the game, by arguing and getting OMGUSsy.

Now this may be my inexperience talking, but I think if you want to avoid OMGUS then it's best not to vote for the person to begin with. To me it sounds like he's just trying to get Khelvaster to unvote to avoid a bandwagon on himself.

I see what you're saying. To put it simply, me and Khelv have history, and as we dont exactly get on, he was a suitable random vote. Note also that as soon as i had a reason to vote for someone else, i did. Conversely, his vote on me seemed more than random, and i felt we were going down the slippery slope of 'lynch him because i hate him' rather than 'lynch him because he is scummy'. Obviously i was trying to get him to unvote, or at least think clearly and objectively about the game.

BM

Vote Count Updated

Good point. I was voting out of hatred more than out of any real case. I've noticed that you're quoting before your replies now, so you're going in the right direction .

Unvote: Battle Mage

[Khelvaster]

Since I'm too impatient to wait for someone to ask me to clarify my point...

There could be a cult recruit. There could be a second cult. There could be jesters. The only thing we know for sure we have a mafia family and a serial killer, and they night kill.

It's the same thing you said, VanDamien, yet I used a hypothetical example to prove that the speculation is worthless. It seems you think I'm actually trying to get people to believe the possibility of a second cult when I have stated before that the cult recruit speculation is a waste. You seem to enjoy trying to finger me by looking at a single one of my sentences instead of the entirety of my posts.

I highly, highly doubt that we have two cults. That would be degenerate in this kind of game.

[Khelvaster]

I think that now would be a very good time to mention that BM is almost definitely town. He is playing somewhat antisocially, but he has been contributing to this game very well, moreso than most other players. He hasn't fatally disrupted it, and his presence actually helps.

[Khelvaster]

shotgunned strikes me as very vig-like.

This looks like paranoid gun dealer, the guy who shoots anyone targetting him.

[Khelvaster]

shotgunned strikes me as very vig-like.

This looks like paranoid gun dealer, the guy who shoots anyone targetting him.

that sounds pretty reasonable. Ooi, Khelv, would you have vigged someone N0 in this game?

BM

Yes, I would have. The difference between 28 and 27 live townies at a start of a game is negligible, while the difference between X and X-1 mafia is much larger. The usefulness of mafia increases exponentially, the usefulness of townies decreases with each additional townie added.

[Khelvaster]

Town want to hunt scum.
You are not hunting scum.
Therefore, you are not town.

A supreme showing of logic...NOT!

Vote: oEJo

[Khelvaster]

This game annoys me sorta. Why are so many people not voting? We need a good, solid bandwagon to gauge reactions from players and after reading thenextepisode's posts, he looks like a good place to start!

Unvote; Vote: thenextepisode

Unvote; Vote: Incognito

There is no pro-town way to justify a bandwagon for no reason other than to make conversation after we already have a good conversation going.

[Khelvaster]

Town want to hunt scum.
You are not hunting scum.
Therefore, you are not town.

A supreme showing of logic...NOT!

Vote: oEJo

Oh yeah...I hadn't read the whole game. I saw this post, posted, then stopped reading for the day. I didn't see the post that just made me vote incognito. Anyway, here's my explanation:

Town want to hunt scum: True
You are not hunting scum: True
Therefore, you are not town: False

Town don't only want to hunt scum. They also want to increase meta-information about mafia in general so that it's easier to hunt scum in the future of the game. Not doing anything doesn't hurt the town or the scum, so it's definitely not anti-town. If a bandwagon were developing, I would be agreeing with this. Since it wasn't, this was false what he posted.

[Khelvaster]

I agree.

Vote: Charity

Vote: oEJo

Not only did you vote without contributing, you voted based on a totally worthless premise. If you come up scum, you've linked yourself completely with VanDamien. I expect we have two scum in the bag here.

[Khelvaster]

The fact that oEJo associated himself with VanDamien puts him even higher on the list, IMO. This is an extremely common scum tactic for getting two votes on someone: One scum makes a crap argument, the other says, "I agree...vote:XXX"

[Khelvaster]

FoS: Armlix

Battle Mage is scummy in all his games. He tends to be a lightning rod for scum to start BWs on.

[Khelvaster]

FoS: Armlix

Battle Mage is scummy in all his games. He tends to be a lightning rod for scum to start BWs on.

He is? From what I had heard about him second hand he seemed like a far too well respected player for me to assume he would get repeatedly wagoned for being scummy.

Battle Mage made a name for himself by being the most prolific player on mafiascum. This came at the price of him not paying attention to any of his games, since he was in 18 at one time at his high point (so the rumor goes.) He realized, later on, that he'd do so much better if he'd play in less games, so that's what he did.

However, his playstyle is still really scummy. He is a fantastic mod, and a decent player, but people who don't get his playstyle lynch him automatically. I can refer you to mini 449 for a shining example of this.

[Khelvaster]

FoS: Armlix

Battle Mage is scummy in all his games. He tends to be a lightning rod for scum to start BWs on.

It seems to me that armix has been hounding BM for awhile, even though, in my opinion, BM has answered each question satisfactorily. What I don't see is armix being questioned for his overzealousness in this particular lynch, where, as its been stated, a townie is more likely to be lynched than our true enemy, the Mafia. Care to comment on this at all armix?

Yeah...Armlix won't keep off of BM. I FoS'd him, and I totally agree with you. He hasn't stopped or explained himself. As a result, for now,

Vote: Armlix

[Khelvaster]

For the love of god, please, nobody vig BM.

Maybe later in the game, vig him. Right now, he is a contributing, pro-town player. He's almost confirmed himself as town by claiming miller straight-off. I hope the vig kills off someone who is suspicious and not contributing instead.

[Khelvaster]

As I've said before, BM is nice to leave alone because scum tend to tunnel vision BM lynches to get an easy d1 lynch. Thus, we shouldn't lynch BM. We should lynch armlx.

[Khelvaster]

As I've said before, BM is nice to leave alone because scum tend to tunnel vision BM lynches to get an easy d1 lynch.

Cite examples, please.

Battle Mage, could you help me out here? We have played a game together that wasn't Mafia on a Train. I forgot what it is, and I'm too lazy to go find it.

[Khelvaster]

. Right now, he is a contributing, pro-town player. He's almost confirmed himself as town by claiming miller straight-off.

eh not entirely true making miller vlaims doesnt mean you arent realy scum. btw i dont think hes scum i was just pointing that out

Killa Seven, you went ahead and ruined it. If we treated him like 100% town, I was hoping that the scum would NK him. As it is, he's a lynch canidate merely because of his claim, and he casts doubt on himself, so he'll probably live to the endgame if we don't lynch him. I think he's town, so I don't care, but I know that a lot of people doubt this.

Also, if we could lynch armlix, and he came up scum, we would see BM as practically confirmed, yet another reason for an armlix lynch (not to tunnel vision, but yeah...he's tunnel visioning BM...)

[Khelvaster]

Also, if we could lynch armlix, and he came up scum, we would see BM as practically confirmed, yet another reason for an armlix lynch (not to tunnel vision, but yeah...he's tunnel visioning BM...)

its a nice idea, but my worry would be that should Armlx come up town, it would lead to a subsequent mislynch, this time of me, and the scum gain a major advantage.

BM

Townies can make mistakes. Scum won't tunnel vision other scum, but townies can tunnel vision other townies. This is a one-way link--if armlix is scum, you are town, but if he's town, you're undecided.

Vote Count Updated, prodding QuickBen

[Khelvaster]

Vote: Rosso Carne

for shamelessly trying to get on a bandwagon early.

[Khelvaster]

Agreed.

FoS: Rosso Carne

For jumping on a bandwagon first thing when its already later into the first day. Suspicious, if you ask me, though not enough to warrant a vote.

Explain to me how this being an FoS instead of a vote makes your post any less suspicious than the one you are FoSing Rosso for, seing as how, content-wise, they are otherwise almost identical.

Agreed, I'll

FoS: Imat

for that. That is going to be upgraded to a vote if Rosso defends himself adequately. Imat wants to slip onto the bandwagon later, using his FoS as an excuse.

[Khelvaster]

Explain, Khel, how what you just posted is any different. You want to hop on the Imat bandwagon should it come up later.

That is going to be upgraded to a vote if Rosso defends himself adequately. Imat wants to slip onto the bandwagon later, using his FoS as an excuse.

Although you didn't bring this up, upon rereading my quote to post it, I found that this is needlessly accusatory. I feel you are fairly town now, just because you didn't start attacking me when I clearly left bait for you to bite. This wasn't a bait post, but now I see it would have served as such, were you scum.

I'm sorry for accusing you.

UnFoS: Imat

[Khelvaster]

why is the Killa Seven BW any better than a Nano BW?

both are good but Killa Seven is more likely to slip up imho.

FoS: Battle Mage

I know I said you were town before, but seriously, I have to have my limits. You just said that Killa Seven is more likely to break under pressure, not that he is scum. If he breaks under pressure, that's an easy lynch. That's not necessarily a scum lynch.

[Khelvaster]

Khelvaster: To swap roles for a minute here, I'm going to defend BM. BM merely said he is more likely to slip up and make a dumb scum mistake, not break under pressure. The first and second are very different, which I can attest to as I haven't really done the second since my first couple games but some how manage to do the first way too often.

I have a feeling if anyone is going to crack under pressure-it be him.

Ok, crack, not break. That's a sematic difference. Your defence fails.

[Khelvaster]

Besides oEJo and Skitzer, I haven't heard of any of those.

[Khelvaster]

the only thing im worried about at this point, is that this day will never end.

You really don't need to worry about that...Worry when it gets this length: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5879

[Khelvaster]

Unvote, Vote Tlp

I'm switching wagons until Nano gets replaced or decides to post. I'm tired of waiting.

Unvote, Vote: Matt_S

Switching Wagons? What?

[Khelvaster]

here.

still happy.

Oh, just a few votes, nothing much to care about?

[Khelvaster]

We definitely don't need a deadline. Posting here has been quite brisk.

[Khelvaster]

I have some questions for K-scope:

How did your scummy-strike system work?

How do you manage to account for the lurky-type scum?

Are you scum by any chance?

What are your thoughts on Killa Seven?

Are people who make you cry annoying or scummy (or both)?

[Khelvaster]

Lurkerscum are no threat if they really lurk.

Could you justify this statement? I find lurkerscum to be threats because they don't give any material to the town, so you don't think about them, and then they survive and are out of suspicion. This in its very nature is threatening, is it not?

[Khelvaster]

dahill1, I'll explain what you are asking another time, but not now.

Lurkerscum are no threat if they really lurk.

Could you justify this statement? I find lurkerscum to be threats because they don't give any material to the town, so you don't think about them, and then they survive and are out of suspicion. This in its very nature is threatening, is it not?

Regarding lurkerscum, I agree with Khelvaster, and disagree with Kaleidoscope.

Lurkerscum is always a threat, because he / she can kill townies at night.

In a game of this size:
- 2 weeks: If someone doe not post every 2 weeks, he / she should be prodded
- 3 weeks: If someone doe not post every 3 weeks, he / she should be prodded a second time
- 4 weeks: If someone does not post after 4 weeks, he / she should be replaced unless he / she has a posting restriction

If someone does not post after 4 weeks, has no post restriction, AND Refuses to be replaced, then I am going to assume that he / she is scum.

In a game of this size, we need people to post at least once every 3 or 4 days to ensure they don't fall behind.

[Khelvaster]

Ok, not that everyone has the same opinion, but I'm really getting tired of people hiding behind the Meta. How people play the game takes a conscious effort. Therefore its not all too difficult to change the way you play. There's no possible way you can disregard Scumminess on the wisdom that "This is just how they play." So What? If thats how they play, lynch them every game. Scumminess should not and can not be ignored because thats just how they play. If they're lynched for playing like that, lesson learned. If not, we come to this situation where they could act as Scummy as they want and people will DEFEND them. Meta is NO excuse not to lynch. For all of you who believe Meta is equivalent to the Bible of Mafia, you're only making it harder for the Town to win. So please, lose the Meta idea that seven and Rosso, or any other player for that matter, are untouchable, it should not be considered at all in this lynch. And, back to my comment that play style can change: If they play as Town and act a certain way, whats stopping them from acting that same way as Scum with the knowledge that people will see this and say "Hey, they must be Town again." The only the holding them back is their own intelligence, and to insult that would be condescending. In other words, they ain't dumb, don't treat them as such.

And armlx, what about those two comments makes them "Good posting?" Do you have nothing of your own to add?

Wow...this is the most manipulative post I've seen. Ever. You are trying to convince us that, in this game, it's best to lynch someone who we believe is town so that in other games those people will act better. I don't buy it. You're chasing a quicklynch.

Vote: Imat

[Khelvaster]

I love how nobody is considering that the Vigilante should target these consistantly scummy players. Don't lynch them; vig them. I was hoping I would need to suggest this, since it screams leading the vig, but seriously. Where has all the common sense gone?

[Khelvaster]

Mod: This game is still moving at a reasonable pace. Can we revoke the deadline?

[Khelvaster]

I might be a vigilante in this game--I know I'm a vig in one of my games, and I forgot which one. Lemme PM the mod real quick. Nobody rush to anything until I get back.

[Khelvaster]

I just checked my PMs and found that I was a vig in one of my other games.

[Khelvaster]

Vig
Nano targeted JDGA and no I don't know why since I didn't do it. I only have a shotgun to use as the vig. Please get rid of Killa now.
PS. I can try and summarize the flavor text if needed.

Vote: Killa Seven

That's good enough for me.