Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[Hu Tao]

Hi.

[Hu Tao]

UNVOTE: welp i got nothing from all that except a stronger confidence in DarthPunk as town

If you did it for a reaction, why not wait for outoforder's reaction?

this guy is prolly scum.

Actually this is a good question

[Hu Tao]

lets murder mafia ok?

Seems like a bit of a stretch. I don't see what makes Luca scummy. Especially for asking a question that makes sense

[Hu Tao]

Luca is just commenting, they are not trying to solve.

So you're expecting someone to solve in the 5 pages? Also why was his question not trying to solve?

[Hu Tao]

outoforder can be town

Why? I think they are overreacting right now

[Hu Tao]

gob is town

Why? I feel like gob becomes more obvious as either alignment as the day 1 goes on though. At least based on past games with him

[Hu Tao]

outoforder can be town

shit youre so good

why the attitude my friend?

Posts like this.
Do you think my "attitude" or whatever makes me mafia?
If not, why even comment on that.

How do you think you have furthered the game along? Who is mafia, if Dunn, why?

Actually I like this post so maybe I'm seeing why they are townish

[Hu Tao]

But you also think Luca looks scummy when he seems like the sanest person itt so meh, you might be mafia after all.

VOTE: outoforder

I agree that Luca doesn't looks scummy like OoO is saying but I did like one post from him so far.

[Hu Tao]

I don't have much of a read on anyone right now. Anyone have a really strong read at the moment?

[Hu Tao]

I don't have much of a read on anyone right now. Anyone have a really strong read at the moment?

single scum read please

You're asking me for a scumread?

[Hu Tao]

Maybe OoO but like I said I don't have much of a strong read

[Hu Tao]

I think there's probably at least one deepfaker in here somewhere, or I'm at least leaving myself open to the possibility so that I don't get hoodwinked by people, but I'm willing to bet there's probably like two scum between Dunnstral / Naerys / Roden.

Sus post. Looks like you're just going after low hanging fruit. The games been open for like a day? Give it time

[Hu Tao]

Can you show that it is historically a good scum tell?

Sure, let's look at the most recent Mini Normal game that resolved: viewtopic.php?t=92058

Scum team was HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao, and Purplemango.

The game had 4147 total posts and lasted for 5 days. With 13 total players, the average contribution of a player is then 4147 / 13 = 319, as your point of reference.

Total number of posts from the scum team:

HighPrincessErinys: 162 (died at end of day 3, so 2 days where no activity would be expected)
Hu Tao: 459 (alive all 5 days)
Purplemango: 103 (alive all 5 days)

Even if we extrapolate HighPrincess's post count for a full 5 days of survival, that would only put them at about 250, still less than the average contribution of 319 posts. Purplemango is clearly well below average at 103. Hu Tao is slightly above average, which I concede, but not above the average by much. Hu Tao was alive for all 5 days, which the majority of players were not, and only managed to come in just above the average.

You can compare that to other very active townies like Flavor Leaf who posted 1130 times and Dragon eater who posted 722 times. When you're a townie, you can post a lot more frequently with much more confidence.

It is not an entirely infallible method. But it is certainly a pretty decent one.

So basically only 1 was a lurker. And in this game more town were lurkers than scum.

[Hu Tao]

I think Superfluousninja is scum.

Generally, I think her posting revolves far more around "winning" interactions and signposting her intentions in an attempt to look town and than it is based around actually detecting people's alignments.

In 120, Ninja responds to Vivax's theory that she might be scum with this:

Yeah. THIS is just nonsense. Why would an alleged scum version of myself want to make such clear lines in the sand when day 1 was, for me at least, less than an hour old? Like I know yall were talking while I was getting my beauty sleep, but the idea that I was actually trying to choose sides this early is just not logical.

The LAST thing any scum ever wants to do, like ever, and much less at the very very beginning of the game, is have any clear allegiance with anyone. So this theory of yours seems like poor theorycrafting IMO.

this response, especially the last line feels a lot more like a scum response to a perceived "inaccurate" accusation than a town response. the whole response is based around dissecting Vivax's logic and basically calling it bad, ergo Ninja cannot be scum. the primary motivation here is for Ninja to show that she cannot be scum based on Vivax's obviously faulty logic.

but I'm not sure why a town!Ninja isn't more suspicious of Vivax or trying to interrogate Vivax more on his thought process to try and determine his alignment. I would think a town!Ninja's primary motivation here would be to try and detect which alignment Vivax is coming from. Instead, the last line of this post seems to assume that Vivax is town, by calling his attack poor thinking, instead of considering that it might be fake.

Her followup in 129 is again focused on Vivax not being "fair" and his summation of her gameplay so far being inaccurate. again, very focused on the inaccuracies and her presentation of herself.

132 feels weird to me because she is immediately trying to undermine my strongest (and only at the time) town read. The tone of this post doesn't appear to indicate that Ninja actually thinks I'm suspicious for town reading DP, but rather it seems more geared towards trying to convince me to scum read him

Later, with Ninja's push on OutofOrder, I still don't really believe Ninja is trying to sort between who is scum and who isn't.

Like what do I need to do here to get you to actually explain your actions? Do you need me to vote for you to put the pressure on? Because I think I've reached that point.

In fact, Ninja's whole thing behind this vote is that it is very explicitly a pressure vote to get Out of Order to explain himself. She calls the behavior of outoforder "headscratching" but again I don't really get the vibe that Ninja thinks outoforder is scum.

I'm leaving my vote on OutOfOrder for now because I want to see my actions through on that one, but I'm fully in favor of a vote against Gob after all this.

I feel like this, again, betrays that the vote on OutOfOrder is very much just like... an optics thing that she feels too self-conscious to move before like getting some arbitrary amount of engagement from OoO. It's also such a weird signpost that I think most often comes from scum who are planning their trajectory throughout the day, rather than a townie who is reacting to things naturally and doesn't necessarily know where their suspicions or vote might lead them next.

Like, it is not at all clear to me why Ninja thinks that once OutOfOrder responds that she is going to stop suspecting him and be good to move onto gob. Instead, it sounds like she's already decided to stop suspecting OutOfOrder once he responds and Ninja can move onto pushing gob which is what she really wants to do. Like she "wants to see her actions through" which means what exactly?

Furthermore, I feel like Ninja's interactions with gob have been very... "ahah! I've got you!"-coded

like gob seems disengaged thus far and clearly enjoys kinda being annoying towards Ninja. I don't think either of these features are super alignment indicative but Ninja's whole post 348 is about how gob's disengagement and "weirdness" must be from scum. and idk it just doesn't read genuine to me.

some of this read stems from me town reading all of roden/gob/outoforder and I think gob in particular is a pretty juicy target to push as scum because a lot of his logic looks surface level scummy and I don't think he particularly cares about being town read as town, so Ninja launching into a huge case about why gob is scum (while keeping a contrived vote on outoforder) looks bad to me

also i think the way she's played around the whole Roden vs. oats master thing has been kinda one dimensional. Like she basically went into that and immediately decided it was an SvT and oatsmaster was town and Roden was pretty sus. although it doesn't appear Ninja is interested in actually pushing that and would like the conflict to keep going? which is kind of conf biasing me into thinking Roden vs. oatsmaster is town vs. town.

but I'm contrasting this with Luca's read on the situation, which, while similar, has greater nuance. Luca is still questioning oatsmaster and I don't think is necessarily trying to encourage the conflict to continue

Agreed. They also didn't reply to my post where I contradict their logic. Their logic was that scum is in the lurkers but in the game they posted, there were more town lurkers than scum lurkers

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: SuperNinja

[Hu Tao]

Ninja can you post a list of your reads please.

I'll just copy and paste the notes I keep on my desktop.

TOWN
Luca Blight - active, good take in post 56
Dannflor - very active. Strangely aggressive? but still making good arguments
Oatsmaster - aggressive pushback on Roden, being a jerk, which is kinda townie tell

NULL
Outoforder - active, but acting in odd and suspicious ways, need better explanations
DarthPunk - very active, Post 57 struck me as sus and I commented on it
Vivax - very active, Back and forth with him over DarthPunk comment, but untrustworthy
Naerys - inactive
Hu Tao - inactive

SCUM
Gob - slightly more active but underwhelming, some bizarre play with the case on Vivax
Roden - was inactive, then strangely aggressive after I pushed him for it, defensive / dismissive
Dunnstral - inactive for a long period, pushed back on my activity level post

MalcolmTucker is afk so they could be anything.

I don't think it was strategically wise for you to place Dannflor in the top tier town here and calling his arguments good when he's voting for you. If it's some kind of reverse psychology thing, Gob already took the spot for being in charge for that.

Got to give it to DP that asking for a list post after that humongous wall of pressure from Dann was pivotal to the generation of this reaction. Oats on the other hand displaying possible signs of a bus with the quick vote and later unvote. If they're paired it must look like napalm to him indeed. Noted, but not damning.

Someone can scumread you and still be town if they make sense even if the conclusion is wrong. So I disagree with this take

[Hu Tao]

Basically my case on GOB is that he openly stated he was posting for the sake of posting.

That is mafia 101 scummy. What can I say? I am a simple man, I see a scum claim, I vote.

I don't think this is scummy

town post for the sake of posting probably more often than scum

This is just not true

Agreed with oats and Darth here

[Hu Tao]

Anyways here is where i basically stand at the moment:
Town:
Dannflor
Vivax
Oatsmaster
gob
Roden
Probs town:
DarthPunk
Scummers be here:
Luca Blight
Dunnstral
Naerys
SuperfluousNinja
Hu Tao
Replaced:
MalcolmTucker

My problem is, while Dann's case on Ninja is good and reasonably sound, currently pretty much all of my scum pool agree with that.
So basically i am either very wrong, or if Ninja is mafia, there's probably one mafia agreeing with the case and then the Malcolm slot.
I have some reservations, but i would like to wait for Ninja to give her opinion on what Dann said, before going deeper on this.

I was going to say what you said in the paragraph after seeing your list

[Hu Tao]

Because youre good playing as mafia.

So their town and scum games are similar?

[Hu Tao]

What makes you to go from this:

But you also think Luca looks scummy when he seems like the sanest person itt so meh, you might be mafia after all.

VOTE: outoforder

I agree that Luca doesn't looks scummy like OoO is saying but I did like one post from him so far.

to this...

Maybe OoO but like I said I don't have much of a strong read

?

They asked me for a scumread and I didn't have one. Which is why I said in the post that I don't have a strong read at the time and it was a maybe. Only because I didn't agree with the read, nothing really else

[Hu Tao]

Gonna put my vote here for now.
VOTE: Naerys
Complete lackluster today.

As a side note, how do spoilers actually work here? They seem to be not working correctly in my mind.

Just letting you know, regardless of alignment this is how naery posts. Not a whole lot of content.

[Hu Tao]

Oh my god. Almost everyone in this game writes such long paragraphs each post.

[Hu Tao]

Scum please kill one of the long posters. I don't care which. It's too hard to catch up reading essays every post

[Hu Tao]

Unless its actually SCUM who are writing those endless posts

There is like 7 of them. They can't all be scum

[Hu Tao]

for transparency, im somewhere around here right now:

TOWN: Luca Blight, outoforder, Oatsmaster
LEAN TOWN: gob, Hu Tao, SuperfluousNinja
MIXED/NULL: Dunnstral, Naerys, MalcolmTucker, Roden
LEAN SCUM: Vivax
SCUM: DarthPunk

Why do you town read me?

[Hu Tao]

I got about 7 minutes.
I‘m more comfortable with the game when Dann and Ninja can both be town in it.

I think Dann might play like someone with a hidden agenda but I‘m not sure that it makes hin mafia.

He's pretty good as scum, but I think for now he's townish

[Hu Tao]

Currently dealing with a work injury from yesterday. I don't think I need to VLA but I'll let the mod know if that changes. My posting will be sparse in the meantime.

Hope you get better soon

[Hu Tao]

Why do you town read me?

idk vibes

i liked your initial interaction with a thread because it looked like town kinda skimming along trying to find something to sink their teeth into. i think scum worries more about looking like they are engaging on a deeper level

uh i liked that you just sheeped my case and didn't worry about how that might look

it's not the strongest town read ever but you haven't given me any reason not to believe in it

Kinda sus reasons tbh. But I guess you could make up better ones if you were lying

[Hu Tao]

well you would say that wouldn’t you

[Hu Tao]

well you would say that wouldn’t you

No, if it was a good case with something worth responding to I would happily respond.

But I don't think you have established anything in that case other than some arbitrary expectations about how I 'should' have reacted to the ninja case.

and the fact that being reasonable= mafia.

the problem I have with you is that you have already acknowledged and it should be quite clear to you that we approach the game in a radically different way, so why are you so confident with a case that boils down to: (doesn't do what I think he should do as town, therefore he is mafia)

This super long day phase is super pro town, there is no reason to dive in to a elim on Ninja when there are people who aren't even posting.

It was the correct play to not just jump on the wagon and get more information in the thread. Strictly correct even.

As to being reasonable. You should have read a post I made when you ISO'd me talking to oats about toning down our level of aggression as we are guests on the site. Being reasonable is not alignment indicative.

Lack of curiosity is, not wanting to get to the truth of peoples alignments is. Reasonableness no. In fact, on my site the opposite tends to be true.

Now the real question is, why does it seem like you are operating with an agenda, you write cases that are worse than you present them as, with a level of confidence that is not commesurate to the 'evidence' you are presenting.

It smacks of holding an agenda tbh. Are you trying to wrest thread control from the active players? Or are you mafia?

I don't see the DP scumread here Dann

[Hu Tao]

I don't really know what to make of the Luca - OOO interaction other than the fact that it is probably town on town violence.

Thoughts on ninja? That's the real question

[Hu Tao]

I don't really know what to make of the Luca - OOO interaction other than the fact that it is probably town on town violence.

Thoughts on ninja? That's the real question

I think she is looking better, honestly some of the stuff that Dann said is still true, she seems quite self-aware of her image.

However her recent posts look better, she is posting a lot which I think would just be really hard to fake as mafia, and I tend to agree with her conclusions.

Further, I just don't think it would be smart to vote with my scum read on Ninja who scum reads both my scum reads if that makes sense.

I don't really agree with this. And you don't think gob would bus as scum?

[Hu Tao]

I don't really know what to make of the Luca - OOO interaction other than the fact that it is probably town on town violence.

Thoughts on ninja? That's the real question

I think she is looking better, honestly some of the stuff that Dann said is still true, she seems quite self-aware of her image.

However her recent posts look better, she is posting a lot which I think would just be really hard to fake as mafia, and I tend to agree with her conclusions.

Further, I just don't think it would be smart to vote with my scum read on Ninja who scum reads both my scum reads if that makes sense.

I don't really agree with this. And you don't think gob would bus as scum?

I'm not saying that gob would or wouldn't bus, I'm just saying that I consider who I am voting with and who shares a similar viewpoint of the game when i vote.

What specifically do you not agree with? do you not agree that Ninja's recent posts look better and would be hard to fake as scum.

I just don't agree with your logic of not voting who gob is voting because you scumread them. Your read doesn't also seem to be advancing so it looks like a one track mind. You aren't even trying to see a world where gob could be town and ninja could be scum because your only focus is gob being scum.

[Hu Tao]

Beginning from #202 Hu Tao had the same thoughts I had on the reread now, mostly. I think I'll treat it as a town point.

Then I scumread Oats because he wasn't all over OOO for townreading Gob with that post. Probably a pretty good reason from me considering he came into with the tone of an angry something and was scumreading me while I in turn was scumreading OOO.

Consider these statements.
Me: OOO scum, gob town.
OOO: Gob town.
Oats: Vivax scum, Gob scum.

How does someone from Oats' position who doesn't post an opinion on OOO at all see him calling Gob's post terrible AND giving him a townread for it prioritize calling me scum first?

OOO, Oats, Dann it is. If not Dann then DP.

What thoughts? Seems a bit vague

[Hu Tao]

I don't really know what to make of the Luca - OOO interaction other than the fact that it is probably town on town violence.

Thoughts on ninja? That's the real question

I think she is looking better, honestly some of the stuff that Dann said is still true, she seems quite self-aware of her image.

However her recent posts look better, she is posting a lot which I think would just be really hard to fake as mafia, and I tend to agree with her conclusions.

Further, I just don't think it would be smart to vote with my scum read on Ninja who scum reads both my scum reads if that makes sense.

I don't really agree with this. And you don't think gob would bus as scum?

I'm not saying that gob would or wouldn't bus, I'm just saying that I consider who I am voting with and who shares a similar viewpoint of the game when i vote.

What specifically do you not agree with? do you not agree that Ninja's recent posts look better and would be hard to fake as scum.

I just don't agree with your logic of not voting who gob is voting because you scumread them. Your read doesn't also seem to be advancing so it looks like a one track mind. You aren't even trying to see a world where gob could be town and ninja could be scum because your only focus is gob being scum.

That’s not the only reason, it’s one of several. Which you should know if you were reading my posts.

Okay. If gob was not voting ninja, what would your read on ninja be?

[Hu Tao]

I think she's still the scummiest out of everyone

[Hu Tao]

After being called out about the take of "activity =scum" she still has a readslist where she is just pushing inactive players. As I stated before she's been proven wrong on the read already. Seems like she's just doing lazy reads and just because someone is making "big posts" doesn't change that

[Hu Tao]

Just saying, mafia always try and get me eliminated. it's my most effective scum hunting tool.

[Hu Tao]

Gonna put my vote here for now.
VOTE: Naerys
Complete lackluster today.

As a side note, how do spoilers actually work here? They seem to be not working correctly in my mind.

Just letting you know, regardless of alignment this is how naery posts. Not a whole lot of content.

I would like to follow this up by asking you how you would figure out naerys’ alignment

Err. Usually based on objectively good or bad posts. Which seems kinda obvious but yeah. She makes posts as scum which seem pretty scummy I've noticed. I just wouldn't go based off activity with her

[Hu Tao]

Gonna put my vote here for now.
VOTE: Naerys
Complete lackluster today.

As a side note, how do spoilers actually work here? They seem to be not working correctly in my mind.

Just letting you know, regardless of alignment this is how naery posts. Not a whole lot of content.

I would like to follow this up by asking you how you would figure out naerys’ alignment

Err. Usually based on objectively good or bad posts. Which seems kinda obvious but yeah. She makes posts as scum which seem pretty scummy I've noticed. I just wouldn't go based off activity with her

What’s your read on her in this game?

Null. She hasn't done anything AI

[Hu Tao]

I'll catch up on what I missed in like 2 hours or so

[Hu Tao]

I'll catch up on what I missed in like 2 hours or so

nobody cares

Rude

[Hu Tao]

I don't really think you are mafia, especially after you wrote that big post. I do suspect what Roden was doing in pushing whatshisname as their confidence felt faked. And now that you've pointed out I agree that Hu Tao's vote on you does not look good so they seem suspicious too.

shade without vote

[Hu Tao]

I don't believe Hu Tao is mafia either.

Why?

[Hu Tao]

I don't really think you are mafia, especially after you wrote that big post. I do suspect what Roden was doing in pushing whatshisname as their confidence felt faked. And now that you've pointed out I agree that Hu Tao's vote on you does not look good so they seem suspicious too.

Can you just summarize your thoughts on the players in the game so that we kind of have a sense of what your thoughts are and how you would like to progress things.

I don't think my thoughts are particularly cryptic in that you can probably iso me with my low posts and get them all within a minute. But sure, let's list them out.


Town: DarthPunk, SuperfluousNinja

Suspicious: Naerys, Roden

And I mentioned that gob is not suspicious because they are playing as suspected. Though that doesn't mean I townread them - I don't really know what they are.

Did you not just say I was the suspicious one?

[Hu Tao]

Spoiler:

I don't really think you are mafia, especially after you wrote that big post. I do suspect what Roden was doing in pushing whatshisname as their confidence felt faked. And now that you've pointed out I agree that Hu Tao's vote on you does not look good so they seem suspicious too.

gob is a hard read. You think they look like mafia because they're making sort of random claims and saying weird things but they do this sort of thing as town too. I don't think they're the type to get "scared" by what you are doing either superfluosninja.

Gonna put my vote here for now.
VOTE: Naerys
Complete lackluster today.

As a side note, how do spoilers actually work here? They seem to be not working correctly in my mind.

Just letting you know, regardless of alignment this is how naery posts. Not a whole lot of content.

What can i say, i prefer to observe from backround

Unless its actually SCUM who are writing those endless posts

Unless its actually SCUM who are writing those endless posts

There is like 7 of them. They can't all be scum

Trees hiding in a forest

I find this posting suggesting that wall posting is scummy without reading anything fairly suspicious

Here are my reasons. DarthPunk reads tonally as town to me.

Okay i have some questions about this:
- Why is Hu Tao in your suspect list when you told to Ninja she is suspicious?
- I can understand your take on Ninja / Roden, however do you think just making a big post makes her town? I mean like... it shouldnt, and i don't see any more reasoning there other than she made a big post.

Glad you caught it too

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Dunn

This is good for now. Seems like they are kinda just making up reads as they go.

[Hu Tao]

thoughts on Roden, hu tao?

I have no clue. I eliminated him wrong last game so maybe that's why I haven't given much thought on him here

[Hu Tao]

That's absolutely very fucking stupid, both of you!!!

Um. OK.

UNVOTE:

[Hu Tao]

Hu Tao's vote feels survivalistic. I think they are voting me because I said I suspect them and are the largest wagon.

How does this make any sense. No one is scumreading me, how am I being survivalistic? Especially when I was the 2nd vote on you I think. If you're town can you stop with these bad takes please. I'm only unvoting you cause of OoO

[Hu Tao]

Dunnstral (4) : Grackaroni / DarthPunk / Vivax / Hu Tao [Exe-3]

Roden (3) : Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / Dannflor

SuperfluousNinja (2) : Roden / oatsmaster

looking at the VC I actually feel worse about the Dunnstral wagon and better about the Roden wagon

Luca Blight and Ninja might be my two most confident town reads at the moment? Meanwhile the Dunnstral wagon is filled with much less confident town reads and Vivax. With Roden being largely absent I'd expect his wagon to be both larger and filled with less town slots if he were town here

Okay I stand corrected. I thought I was earlier on Dunn

[Hu Tao]

Someone talk some sense into me? Does anyone want to take up an angle with me on how my read on Dannflor is wrong?

I did already if you don’t remember :p

If you don’t mind, I’d like some more elaboration as to why hu Tao is mafia

If you look at their ISO, here's the extent of their reads:
- Has "no clue" on Roden (like come on, you've really got nothing at all?)
- Voted Dunn because he "seems to just be making up reads"; that's the extent of their justification
- Null on Naerys (woop de doo?)
- Thinks I am super scummy (and yet their vote is on Dunn, even though they've spent a lot more time talking about how evil they think I am)
- Thinks Dann is townish without going into detail on it

And that's it, we know how they feel about less than half of the people in this game and everything offered up here is largely uninteresting, or somewhat confusing.

A LOT of Hu Tao's commentary has been meta game analysis. They spent a lot of time back-and-forthing about activity levels and what that means. Meta game analysis is always an easy way for scum to just talk about stuff and appear active.

Ironically I think maybe their most evil-indicative post is POST 666, talking about me:

After being called out about the take of "activity =scum" she still has a readslist where she is just pushing inactive players. As I stated before she's been proven wrong on the read already. Seems like she's just doing lazy reads and just because someone is making "big posts" doesn't change that

I mean nobody "proved" shit here. I don't think anything is "proven" in this game at this point, is it?? And I really do hate how dismissive they are about my post, like they aren't even trying to engage with it and are just tossing out some vague nonsense about how long posts don't generally make someone innocent. It's not the LENGTH of the post that matters, it's what's actually IN the post, and Hu Tao has done literally nothing to engage with anything that was in there. The best way scum could do away with a long, comprehensive post that makes a lot of good posts is to do exactly what Hu Tao is doing here, to drum up some quick offhanded surface-level rationale about it and avoid engaging with it as much as possible.

None of these are actual good reasons to scumread me. If I was scum I could easily make up reads if I wanted to. So me saying what's on my mind and being honest is not a bad thing.

[Hu Tao]

I find it rich you're upset about me having meta reads on people, but the basis of all your reads were activity

[Hu Tao]

Not meta reads, meta game analysis.

What's the difference?

[Hu Tao]

None of these are actual good reasons to scumread me. If I was scum I could easily make up reads if I wanted to.

I mean you're trying to give an argument here for why you should be allowed to not participate in the game. You're trying to say, why bother moving anything forward since I might be scum and misleading you all?! I mean you can trust that we've all considered that possibility.

Yes you can make up reads, but if you actually commit to them and put them down here, that's what actually helps us to figure out what you are. The fact that you're trying to create a space that is amenable to you not having to offer useful information, not having to move the game forward at all, not having to offer anything that helps us sort out your alignment, is only deepening my suspicion of you.

I'm just someone who takes awhile to come up with reads in general. You can see any of my past town games and see this as fact if you really need to.

[Hu Tao]

Ah okay. I see

[Hu Tao]

I'm just someone who takes awhile to come up with reads in general. You can see any of my past town games and see this as fact if you really need to.

Why didn't you say this the first time? It's odd that you came up with an excuse like that when you are, I assume, entirely aware of how you play. At this point it seems like you're saying this because you're aware of how ineffective and scummy your first response was. It's hard for me to understand why a townie would say something like "if I were scum, I'd just be lying to you, so why bother getting input from me?" But I understand perfectly why scum would say it: it gives them an excuse to participate less.

And in regards to your previous games, how do I know that you haven't just developed a way of playing that you can sustain throughout a mafia career, where you choose to play in a way that gives you an excuse to participate less for the games where you roll scum? Like how do I know that you regularly holding off on meaningful contributions to the game isn't something you do so that you have a legit excuse when you're scum, so you can roll into a game like this and say "oh I do this all the time, it's very normal for me to not contribute meaningful content at the same rate as most other people"?

I wouldn't be able to lie, a few ppl here play with me a lot so.. Should say a lot that they tr me

[Hu Tao]

How good is Danns mafia game does anyone know

Very

[Hu Tao]

Welp I fucked that one up lol.

I was trying to ask, who is townreading you, to your knowledge?

FYI I give 0 shits about previous games, it doesn't factor into how I play at all. Frankly I think it's really bizarre how much y'all care about shit from previous games instead of focusing on the present one, but that's neither here nor there and I'm definitely not inviting a conversation on the topic. Just letting you know where I stand on it.

Pretty sure most people this game have said they town lean me. Except you and Dunn

[Hu Tao]

Not really sure why ninja seems to be upset with the concept of meta

Could be scum upset that a townie is being townread unjustly

[Hu Tao]

Not really sure why ninja seems to be upset with the concept of meta

Could be scum upset that a townie is being townread unjustly

They posted again about 20 minutes after I asked, so yes, they were here and following along at the time.

Is it really just Dunnstral and myself that think they're suspicious? Nobody else?

I could literally make up reasons and give 3 random reasons if I wanted to as scum. I don't have many scumreads. If that's a problem for you, too bad. I'm being honest and if you want to vote me for being honest then do so.

[Hu Tao]

I‘ve been devil‘s advocate for you, don‘t you think ?

That earned me a lot of criticism, but in the long run it also told me that nobody would have done the same for you. Just cost me the extra effort, but I wasn‘t pretending, I actually believed it. To find the devil means to play his game first.

Except maybe Naerys, she might have done something for you, who resorted to calling Oats mafia without having a firm stance on you. A chainsaw vote.

Let‘s try Luca/Naerys/Roden ? See if anything changes ?

I'm okay with voting Luca or maybe naerys. I think I'm leaning no on roden right now

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: oatsmaster
oh and this is scum btw

Future me, does Naerys ever actually do anything?

No. You kinda just gotta read between the lines to see if her reads make sense. That's how I taught her last game

[Hu Tao]

gob is like slam just more coherent and incoherent at the same time lol.
i love having him around just for posts like this:

I'll catch up on what I missed in like 2 hours or so

nobody cares

I laughed my ass off yesterday when i read this

[Hu Tao]

I'm okay with voting Luca or maybe naerys.

kk Hu is probably town here

Why

[Hu Tao]

Can people who don’t think roden is mafia iso him and his latest contributions and tell me how any of that comes from town trying to find mafia?

Do you do anything other than complain

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: luca

[Hu Tao]

Yeah, Dann doesn't have an ego. Just a good player. imo

[Hu Tao]

I've never seen Dann have an ego at all

[Hu Tao]

Dann, OoO and Dunn are probably all town. I'm unsure on vivax. Their townread on me for the Luca vote I'm unsure how to take it.

[Hu Tao]

Dann, OoO and Dunn are probably all town. I'm unsure on vivax. Their townread on me for the Luca vote I'm unsure how to take it.

Vivax is very fucking town.

Seems like you just defend your town reads, am I right? Who do you Town read more Dunn or Vivax

[Hu Tao]

No I just misunderstood earlier. I don't downgrade Dunn then. still think he's scummy

[Hu Tao]

Town read* not downgrade

[Hu Tao]

Yeah, you're right. It doesn't make sense

[Hu Tao]

I kinda just want to end day 1 already. It feels like ot could drag on for awhile unless we come to a reasonable compromise

[Hu Tao]

Dann is very very likely to be mafia.

So do you think it's luca/dann/???

[Hu Tao]

I'll look into it. But i still kinda thing Dann is town. But I'm always wrong on Dann it feels like

[Hu Tao]

You're bad at context clues Gob. Which is why the others didn't have an issue with the posts I made after that

[Hu Tao]

Also ignoring the posts after is kinda sus. Unless you're catching up

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Dannfloor

Ninja, Oatmasters. Hop on this to pressure Dann. Trust me on this one, i know dann.

Does he have a tell?

[Hu Tao]

I'm okay with voting Luca or maybe naerys.

kk Hu is probably town here

Why

Cuz u are SR me

[Hu Tao]

Spoiler:

I‘ve been devil‘s advocate for you, don‘t you think ?

That earned me a lot of criticism, but in the long run it also told me that nobody would have done the same for you. Just cost me the extra effort, but I wasn‘t pretending, I actually believed it. To find the devil means to play his game first.

Except maybe Naerys, she might have done something for you, who resorted to calling Oats mafia without having a firm stance on you. A chainsaw vote.

Let‘s try Luca/Naerys/Roden ? See if anything changes ?

I'm okay with voting Luca or maybe naerys.

I think I'm leaning no on roden right now

Was this ever explained?

Because Hu Tao seems like the sort of player, in this game, to just go along with anything, so it surprises me that she would say 'no' to voting Roden here in particular.

Just a gut feel. I've played with roden as scum and town. I'm getting more of his town vibe than scum

[Hu Tao]

Hoo boy, ten more pages in the span of a few hours

I know this feel

[Hu Tao]

Yeah, Dann doesn't have an ego. Just a good player. imo

I don't disagree with the above, but at this point I'm going to put Hu Tao as a scumread. She doesn't seem to add anything relevant to the discussions, and only comments on thigs that have no real bearing on the game.

She has also voted me but not, as far as I can see, presented any thought-process behind this read.

Who knew that answering questions was suspicious this looks like just omgus.

[Hu Tao]

Yeah, Dann doesn't have an ego. Just a good player. imo

I don't disagree with the above, but at this point I'm going to put Hu Tao as a scumread. She doesn't seem to add anything relevant to the discussions, and only comments on thigs that have no real bearing on the game.

She has also voted me but not, as far as I can see, presented any thought-process behind this read.

This OMGUS?

Glad someone else caught it

[Hu Tao]

Dann, OoO and Dunn are probably all town. I'm unsure on vivax. Their townread on me for the Luca vote I'm unsure how to take it.

Again, very 'safe'.

Does anyone at this point have any idea about Hu Tao's scumreads? Does she even scumread me or is she just going along with whatever? That's what it feels like to me.

The fact that you didn't get the context clues behind this shows you're sus. And didn't comment on the posts after which clarify the reads

[Hu Tao]

I’m saying that voting for you doesn’t make her mafia.

It’s probably the most relevant thing she’s done this game and you aren’t engaging with it appropriately.

I never said it did make her mafia, I said I don't understand her thought-process on that, or much else.

How can I engage with a naked vote, exactly?

Lies. You literally just said it made me a scumread. Caught in your own web

[Hu Tao]

I’m saying that voting for you doesn’t make her mafia.

It’s probably the most relevant thing she’s done this game and you aren’t engaging with it appropriately.

I never said it did make her mafia, I said I don't understand her thought-process on that, or much else.

How can I engage with a naked vote, exactly?

You literally said “I’m going to put hu Tao as a scum read”

You see thread context and try and understand why your wagon is what prompted such a thing assuming hu Tao is mafia

Oats is preaching right now. Glad you were here at least during this

[Hu Tao]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Luca

What made you switch from gob to Luca here?

[Hu Tao]

1.12

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

Luca Blight (3) :

outoforder / Hu Tao / DarthPunk

DarthPunk (3) :

Dannflor / gob / Roden

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Not Voting (2):

Dunnstral / Vivax

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

didn't count oatsmaster's unvote at it appears to be accidental, if you accidentally make a vote / unvote you didn't want to please correct it manually for clarity purposes

Flavor

Spoiler:

I mean i'm not being very fair here, we *do* see a zombie drone but like, only for litterally 10 seconds at the start of episode 5, like

*We're in a scrapyard, with plenty of deactivated drones in a pile*

*zoom into the pile*

*we see a drone getting back to life, who looks understeandably a bit frightened by everything*

and that's it, not like really that's IT, this place / drone / THIS WHOLE IDEA never comes up again

Just quoting this for my iso. If one of these end up as scum I think it'll be good to look back at

[Hu Tao]

A bit more activity and this game could almost become like Imperial mafia when it built up 100 pages within two days.

This is how you catch the mafia. You give them lots of things they don‘t need or want to read until they commit sudoku

Funny you should bring this up, as there's one more thing I wanted to mind-dump about, and that's that I actually think this chatter about how Day 1 is so great for finding scum because of how long it is and such... I actually kinda disagree with the sentiment and I think it might actually be scummy from a certain angle.

Because, sure, having plenty of time to solve things is good, being rushed is bad. But there IS a limit to that. There is for sure a point where you reach "analysis paralysis" and it would probably be better to get some solid info before you do more. (FWIW, Oats realized this yesterday and I find that quite townie of him) whereas I feel like OOO is more arguing that ultra long days are just great full stop. I don't think I agree.

I mean at this stage of today, yes, I am genuinely starting to worry that we're going way too far down rabbit holes. Is that not a circumstance that's favorable to scum? To put down so many theories and work so many angles that now ANYTHING is possible? I'd feel better if it actually seemed like we were CONVERGING on things, but frankly, I am not seeing it. Darth casting a vote for Gob now? Vivax giving up on scum OOO and actually working with him? A continuous will they / won't they with Dann? Is anyone else feeling like, you know what, we all have some pretty good theories at this point, let's get some concrete evidence before we drive ourselves crazy with the analysis?

OOO also said (correct me if I'm wrong, I'll dog up the quote later) that it is, like, either really hard or nearly impossible to mislynch on day one because of how long it is. And like... No? I don't think that's true at all! If it were, I would have thought that the people putting together these games would have said, you know what, the way we've set this game up is just way too favorable towards town and so we need to change the rules in some way. If it were actually true that town disproportionately wins day one, the rules would have changed by now. That statement just otherwise seems like it's trying to bolster our Descent into our rabbit holes and the need to go even further with them.

Vivax, the fact that you are piggybacking off of OOO's angle that a long day 1 is so great just makes me think harder that I'm on to something thinking you two are scummates. If that bothers you, then that should actually convince you that maybe I'm right about this, because clearly I'm losing analytical efficiency and going down rabbit holes if I'm wrong about this.

Maybe I'm just not looking forward to getting flamed by Roden for another five fucking days but I really am leaning towards "let's get some solid info before we analyze ourselves to death". Knowing Roden's alignment helps quite a lot AND helps to redirect our energies. I don't expect we'll be yeeting anyone else today and I don't think we should either, so I'm probably not changing my vote. But I'd like to start using it again AFTER we've seen this one through.

Sorry for the long post, Gob. But also, no I'm not.

I'm going to be honest. I am willing to give you another look for town. When I see you post like this it makes me want to not read any of it since it's too long and I cba. But that's not fair to you

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Roden

Okay people, explain this one to me. We are all pretty much in agreement that Roden is scum, seems like. We don't have his flip yet, but it certainly seems like we unofficially agree that we should be operating off the assumption that Roden is guilty, with any theory we come up with. Right?

Okay, so then if Luca is guilty:

1) Why is his VERY FIRST VOTE for his teammate?
2) Why would he do it this early in the game (he cast it on Friday)?

Like I'm sorry but "he's bussing" is a bad argument in this context. It's more believable and likely if it comes later and in reaction to points that other people have made. But he might actually have been the one to START this wagon (I need to verify that). Like just, right from the get-go, "fuck you teammate, you goin' DAYOWN, biotch!!" Like I'm sorry but I just really don't buy that. It's too proactive, too early, too completely unnecessary to make any sense to me.

This is such terrible logic I'm sorry. First off you don't know if roden is scum or not (unless you're scum) so why would you be going off that premise to start. Luca could be scum and independent of roden. It seems like a bunch of stretches to make this final point.

[Hu Tao]

Like, whoever genuinely thinks Luca is guilty, do you really not have a better angle to work here, one that makes more sense and seems more likely, than one in which a guy IMMEDIATELY throws his teammate under the bus?

Like at the very least, independently of game stuff, it's clearly just a shitty thing to do to a person. Like you really do need to be an asshole to do this. You're kicking someone out of the game for your own benefit. Because you know the chips are gonna fall in your favor, right? I mean in this scenario, the person really is guilty, so you're probably going to get what you want here.

I don't know Luca on a personal level but he seems like a perfectly nice guy to me. This game can so, so easily bring out the worst in people so it's actually not that hard to get the measure of a person's character in this game, and Luca does not at all seem like an asshole, not even a little bit.

Last minute add: Vivax voted Luca in the time I was writing this. My read on Vivax stands.

I need to get to work. I want to focus on catching up on reading during what time I have so I'll talk to you all this evening.

?????

Like what is this logic.

[Hu Tao]

Don't frame this lim as if it's personal. I don't think anyone wants to lim Luca because they dislike him, but because they think he's mafia.

He can be a great guy and all but I am just not convinced that he prefers to solve over positioning himself favourably according to thread sentiment.

He could be pushing Roden or DP right now but he is visibly more bothered by having his alignment questioned and that's where his attention prefers to be.

I don't know what it is with you and rabbit holes. Let the poor animals sleep.
What do you want me to tell you?

Yeah like this is obviously not personal we are all just playing a game. Is she known for this kinda thing? Like make outlandish logic statements?

[Hu Tao]

I don‘t mind voting Roden over Luca.

And I‘m not going to continue going down that line of discussion, ninja. You somehow brought up Luca being nice or something which lowkey is supposed to guilt trip and mafia can be nice too anyways.

I don‘t know why you are trying to be so confrontational. Looks a bit like you‘re doing it for its own sake.

Roden is the most likely outcome at the end of the day.

I'm still not sure why roden is the most likely

[Hu Tao]

I kinda want to just say that Ninja's frustration about no one listening to her about Hu Tao is towny

I would actually agree with this sadly.

[Hu Tao]

I think their outlandish stuff is more likely to come from town instead of scum

[Hu Tao]

Oh God I just SiGnPoStEd again, didn't I?!

kinda want to town lean posts like this too

I feel like scum might be more self conscious about complaining about the reasons people have scum read them

this feels more like a townie who is frustrated about being scum read for their posting/writing style

I think we are on the same page here. I actually have felt like that before now that you mention it

[Hu Tao]

I'm rereading Hu Tao's ISO and I think I'd be okay with voting Hu Tao today. (or tomorrow or whatever)

I don't really vibe with Hu Tao's continued scum read of Ninja. I feel like most people have reevaluated on that slot by now but Hu Tao has basically stuck with the same read and it's largely based on Ninja going after inactive slots as they explain in 666.

I don't know, I'm struggling to buy this making Ninja "the scummiest out of everyone" because I think lots of slot are generally just pushing more inactive slots - like Roden has been the consensus biggest scum read for a lot of the day. And like, while I can see having doubts about Ninja, I don't really get having her as a top scum read right now. So I'm worried this is a case of Hu Tao not being able to naturally evolve a read as scum that she would normally rethink as town.

I also kinda side-eye Hu Tao's fixation on people town reading them? First in 544 and then 868 and then 1353. I have used this tactic as mafia before where I question everyone's town reads of me in order to kinda reverse psychology people into conf biasing harder into their town read on me. While I think town can be suspicious of people town reading them too easily, I feel like it's unusual for Hu Tao to be picking at almost every single one. I think at a certain point, town players assume they've been naturally towny enough that they don't question every single town read on them.

Also also I don't really like their soft defense of me during DP's push on me. I'm going to contrast this with Luca's defense of me which was definitely a *hard defense*. First Hu Tao talks up my scum game in 975, then they say I'm probably town in 1353, then she says she "kinda thinks im town" in 1388, but less strongly than before. Idk, I kinda think if Hu Tao was town who did genuinely town read me she would step in to defend me harder at some point, instead the soft defense of me feels like she wants to look good in case my wagon gets pushed through. The only intervention she really does in that whole spat is to tell me that she doesn't think my case on DP is good, which is a very safe post to make during the current thread climate

Yikes

[Hu Tao]

if scum is just naerys/hu tao/roden I'm gonna cry

I thought you'd have more respect for my scum game, but I actually don't think you've played with me when I was scum now that I think about it.

[Hu Tao]

Dunnstral

Very defensive and lacking ISO overall.

VOTE: Dunnstral

It‘s also like nobody ever wants to bring him up.
Could Ninja + Dunn ve a thing ? The way she picked out Hu Tap felt so random..

Okay so objectively, forgetting about the fact that I know that I'm town.

Why would you steer the direction of the conversation away from me to dunnstral here? Seems like more people were open to thinking me as scum and it was more of a deflection to someone else. I'm getting the feeling I was earlier about you that you could be trying to set me up as being voted and you looking towny for being right about me

[Hu Tao]

NGL, Vivax's sudden vote on Dunnstral feels like a panic move in response to a sudden plethora of convincing evidence of Hu Tao's guilt. Why are we suddenly shifting to Dunnstral? How convenient that it's a fairly inactive person. How odd that Vivax says so little to justify the vote.

I don't really like how little engagement Vivax made with my request for info on Hu Tao, either. He seemed unaware that I even suspected him, and frankly I haven't a clue what to make of that, but it's either neutral or willful scum obstinance.

We actually agree for once

[Hu Tao]

It‘s also like nobody ever wants to bring him up.
Could Ninja + Dunn ve a thing ? The way she picked out Hu Tap felt so random..

This reads like a grab bag of poorly thought out suspicion that adds to the chaos rather than being useful.

Can you explain why or how Dunn's picking out of Hu Tao was "so random.."?

I agree!!! And I'm not sure if you saw it earlier but I had the same weary feeling about vivax defending me when it wasn't really warranted

[Hu Tao]

I found Roden very townie so far.
Laid back much even.

Out of the trio, OutofOrder has the highest odds of just being a scummy townie in my opinion. Mafia playing openly like mafia is good play though so I don't want to freepass that.

Dunnstral and Naerys are those I can't get a read on. They have their pokerface on, Naerys has opinions at least. Just not very verbose about them, so it's hard to tell if there's genuine thought behind them.

Gob is just chaos but he doesn't seem like he has an agenda. Can't tell if he's even serious about what he writes.

I'm currently ISOing Vivax and gauging whether I've got the right read on him as scum.

This one really sticks out to me. Of course we don't know Roden's alignment yet, but look at how careful the language on Roden is here, compared to the rest. It suggests a reluctance to say much, whereas he's comfortable talking about everyone else here (none of whom I think are on his potential scum team).

I'd actually be pretty down to vote vivax. Just based on the vibes I had earlier and what he just did.

If I'm being honest, I was purposely playing like this to see if someone would try to soft defend me when it wasn't warranted since scum usually does things like that to someone they think will eventually be voted out. And scum usually they to soft push a vote someone's way. I originally thought you were doing this, but based on the last couple pages it looks like actually scumread me and have been actively trying to get people to vote me. I don't think scum would do it to an extent you have.

[Hu Tao]

Before you do that, Hu Tao, do you mind giving me your read on Vivax? Along with any rationale for why you feel this way?

Oh. I just did this. Luckily

[Hu Tao]

Hu Tao, if you feel like taking a break from tunneling Luca, can you tell me how you feel about Vivax?

My Luca vote wasn't really a tunnel BTW. I just think he could be scum. He hasn't done anything I think is towny

[Hu Tao]

I don‘t mind voting Roden over Luca.

And I‘m not going to continue going down that line of discussion, ninja. You somehow brought up Luca being nice or something which lowkey is supposed to guilt trip and mafia can be nice too anyways.

I don‘t know why you are trying to be so confrontational. Looks a bit like you‘re doing it for its own sake.

Roden is the most likely outcome at the end of the day.

My angle on Luca is that I don't think nice people do such shitty things. If people suspect him, it's not because they think he's a shitty person, it's because I don't think they considered that angle. I brought it up because I don't think it occurred to people. It wasn't to guilt-trip anyone.

Hu Tao please refer to this to clarify what I said on Luca rather than doing this offhanded shaming of me thing.

Yep I saw that later on and understood. Sorry for misunderstanding

[Hu Tao]

Hu Tao reads list on the whole game please. 1-2 sentences.

I'll do one in a bit

[Hu Tao]

I think their outlandish stuff is more likely to come from town instead of scum

Nothing I've said has been "outlandish". I guaran-fucking-tee that you are misunderstanding my arguments or misinterpreting them. Yes we are all speculating and theorizing but I don't think it is the least bit fair to characterize what I am saying as OUTLANDISH.

I'm going out of my way to get people to pay attention to your scummy ways, and you are making these blanket statements about how my "logic is outlandish" without doing jack shit to actually cite evidence and make the case. Since you seem to hate it when I tell you what two plus two equals, I'll just have to leave it to everyone else to do the math on what all of that means.

Having the beginning of your reads based on activity. And also doing preassociated flips is not outlandish?

[Hu Tao]

hu tao can you talk about why you're not feeling roden when you get the chance

I get the same vibe from this game that I did in the classic commercials game where he was town. So that's the biggest reason why

[Hu Tao]

NGL, Vivax's sudden vote on Dunnstral feels like a panic move in response to a sudden plethora of convincing evidence of Hu Tao's guilt. Why are we suddenly shifting to Dunnstral? How convenient that it's a fairly inactive person. How odd that Vivax says so little to justify the vote.

I don't really like how little engagement Vivax made with my request for info on Hu Tao, either. He seemed unaware that I even suspected him, and frankly I haven't a clue what to make of that, but it's either neutral or willful scum obstinance.

We actually agree for once

What parts do you agree with here?

Um. Read my post before that. It pretty much explains?

[Hu Tao]

They both think that because I entertained that Hu Tao might be mafia, me unexpectedly going for Dunn instead within the short timeframe made me scum.

It‘s like all they care about is to coerce me into predictable behaviour.

Didn‘t expect Hu to react akin to ninja though. Ninja I think has more fun at manipulation attempts rather than a productive thread environment.

You're missing the point. Or doing it on purpose. It's just the fact that the attention could have stayed on me but you directed it elsewhere

[Hu Tao]

I'm obviously being objective, vivax if you think it's a personal think with you and ninja

[Hu Tao]

NGL, Vivax's sudden vote on Dunnstral feels like a panic move in response to a sudden plethora of convincing evidence of Hu Tao's guilt. Why are we suddenly shifting to Dunnstral? How convenient that it's a fairly inactive person. How odd that Vivax says so little to justify the vote.

I don't really like how little engagement Vivax made with my request for info on Hu Tao, either. He seemed unaware that I even suspected him, and frankly I haven't a clue what to make of that, but it's either neutral or willful scum obstinance.

We actually agree for once

What parts do you agree with here?

Um. Read my post before that. It pretty much explains?

Do you agree that vivax was panicking to the plethora of evidence of your guilt? I did read the post before but I don’t see how that applies when ninja is talking like you are guilty and then you agree with the post.

UNVOTE: unvote

VOTE: Hu tao

This might be the biggest misrep I've ever seen. Either you don't get the point, or you're doing this on purpose.

I'm saying that I think that vivax scum sees me as town. But knows that regardless of how it's looking I'll be eliminated soon. And when that happens he can say he tried to push it in a different direction to gain town points. Now how is that anything of what you just said?

[Hu Tao]

NGL, Vivax's sudden vote on Dunnstral feels like a panic move in response to a sudden plethora of convincing evidence of Hu Tao's guilt. Why are we suddenly shifting to Dunnstral? How convenient that it's a fairly inactive person. How odd that Vivax says so little to justify the vote.

I don't really like how little engagement Vivax made with my request for info on Hu Tao, either. He seemed unaware that I even suspected him, and frankly I haven't a clue what to make of that, but it's either neutral or willful scum obstinance.

We actually agree for once

What parts do you agree with here?

Um. Read my post before that. It pretty much explains?

Do you agree that vivax was panicking to the plethora of evidence of your guilt? I did read the post before but I don’t see how that applies when ninja is talking like you are guilty and then you agree with the post.

UNVOTE: unvote

VOTE: Hu tao

loool smackdown

VOTE: Hu Tao

Yeah you're scum Changing stances to get off after caught

[Hu Tao]

Kinda mad I didn‘t realize first that she was agreeing with ninja on something making me scum that had herself being scum as a prerequisite condition.

why on earth does this make hu tao scum??? like actually

Glad you're seeing that you're seeing vivax walk this in circles

[Hu Tao]

why does she agree with that as town when it relies on an assumption of her being mafia for the post to make sense.

again, take this one step further, it also relies on the assumption of Vivax being mafia as well. so like, are you saying Vivax must also be mafia based on that?

why isn't it reasonable to assume that Hu Tao agreed that Vivax's behavior was suspicious for other reasons? Like Hu Tao JUST explained in 1847?

!!!!!

[Hu Tao]

I guess I feel it is more reasonable to assume that Hu Tao agreed your behavior was suspicious for other reasons, rather than that scum!HuTao thought "oh yes, I am scum that Vivax is trying to distract from"

I mean by that logic Hu Tao wouldn't agree with that unless you were scum with her as well

It’s as simple as town!ht can’t agree with that post in any way that makes sense but she does, so what does that mean for town!ht?

Maybe you're just misunderstanding but read my new post if that clears it up

[Hu Tao]

why does she agree with that as town when it relies on an assumption of her being mafia for the post to make sense.

again, take this one step further, it also relies on the assumption of Vivax being mafia as well. so like, are you saying Vivax must also be mafia based on that?

why isn't it reasonable to assume that Hu Tao agreed that Vivax's behavior was suspicious for other reasons? Like Hu Tao JUST explained in 1847?

But she should KNOW that she is TOWN

She doesn't KNOW anything more than that, so why does she agree with something with the premise that she is NOT TOWN.

FFS.

I'll break this down again since you maybe just don't understand.

I'm currently thinking ninja is town, and is wrong about her scumread on me but she wants people to listen to her about her scumread on me.

Now I see others trying to at least see a world where I might be scum. Which is fair, even though they are wrong. I understand I'm not going to be town read every town game.

Context of this is earlier vivax stated that I was town because of a very sus reason which I called him out pages ago on. Because it wasn't a strong enough reason to safely put me as town.

So in my mind, he's trying to set up for when I flip town, he benefits from this as he will say that he had no part of it.

Now he steers the conversation in a way where people could be distracted from me, but eventually will go back to looking at me as scum. He will be off wagon because he voted Dunn. Which will make him look better tomorrow.

Is this a better explanation?

[Hu Tao]

NGL, Vivax's sudden vote on Dunnstral feels like a panic move in response to a sudden plethora of convincing evidence of Hu Tao's guilt.

Why are we suddenly shifting to Dunnstral? How convenient that it's a fairly inactive person. How odd that Vivax says so little to justify the vote.

I don't really like how little engagement Vivax made with my request for info on Hu Tao, either.

He seemed unaware that I even suspected him, and frankly I haven't a clue what to make of that, but it's either neutral or willful scum obstinance.

How does this not align with what I just said. He has NO reason for town reading me. His read is FALSE. That's why it's suspicious

[Hu Tao]

If he really thought I was town, he would give reasons. And hard defend those reasons. He wants me to be voted out without contributing

[Hu Tao]

why does she agree with that as town when it relies on an assumption of her being mafia for the post to make sense.

again, take this one step further, it also relies on the assumption of Vivax being mafia as well. so like, are you saying Vivax must also be mafia based on that?

why isn't it reasonable to assume that Hu Tao agreed that Vivax's behavior was suspicious for other reasons? Like Hu Tao JUST explained in 1847?

But she should KNOW that she is TOWN

She doesn't KNOW anything more than that, so why does she agree with something with the premise that she is NOT TOWN.

FFS.

I'll break this down again since you maybe just don't understand.

I'm currently thinking ninja is town, and is wrong about her scumread on me but she wants people to listen to her about her scumread on me.

Now I see others trying to at least see a world where I might be scum. Which is fair, even though they are wrong. I understand I'm not going to be town read every town game.

Context of this is earlier vivax stated that I was town because of a very sus reason which I called him out pages ago on. Because it wasn't a strong enough reason to safely put me as town.

So in my mind, he's trying to set up for when I flip town, he benefits from this as he will say that he had no part of it.

Now he steers the conversation in a way where people could be distracted from me, but eventually will go back to looking at me as scum. He will be off wagon because he voted Dunn. Which will make him look better tomorrow.

Is this a better explanation?

But that is not what the post you agreed with said.

PART OF THE POST SAID THIS.

[Hu Tao]

Sorry caps was on accident. But I guess you can nitpick and say I should clarify exactly what I agreed with but I thought it was clear on the post what I was agreeing with.

[Hu Tao]

I can't even deal with this site tbh. it's like we are playing a game with two different sets of rules at the same time.

Have you noticed that the house players interact less with each other compared to with us outsiders ?

I don‘t see them cooperating, forming blocs etc.

As soon as I did that with OoO it was seen as something suspicious.
It‘s like entering a village full of odd people who guard terrible secrets… And maybe just play to withhold vital information.

Anyway, Hu‘s argument is based on a flip association that she could influence. One: She could flip Dunn if she wanted. Two: It would be more convenient for me as mafia to just stay parked on Roden and not evaluate her at all.

This isn't what I'm saying at all. It feels like I'm speaking a different language right now. It's frustrating

[Hu Tao]

Vivax - scum
DarthPunk - thinking he may be town who just doesn't understand me
Grackaroni - who? Null. I don't remember much posts from them
Luca Blight - leaning scummy
Dunnstral - I've seen Dunn as town and he can be very good. I'm not seeing that here though. Could be nai though. I scumread him during commercials game too when he was town, and I guess he's kinda similar to that too. I'm unsure.
Oatsmaster - town, had the same thoughts as me earlier when I was catching up
Naerys - scummy, not explaining reads. As town when she explains reads they makes sense. Could be holding back on purpose
outoforder - I think he's town. Cards on the table I thought he was softing he was masons with Dunn earlier but I was wrong on that one, that's why I said I tr Dunn. But I think I was wrong on that.
SuperfluousNinja - town unfortunately
gob - gob is really obvious as scum but usually it takes a bit. I've called him correctly I think each time we've played. Not sure yet
Roden - I think he's probably town. He is similar to the town game I just played with him.
Dannflor - town. But last game when his slot was scum and he replaced in, I started to think he was town. I could be wrong on this one but I wanna say town for now.

[Hu Tao]

If OOO was here he would be all over that slip from HT

You're scum or you don't understand. I don't know what else to say. Never writing a long post again to explain if you're just going to say that

[Hu Tao]

for transparency, im somewhere around here right now:

TOWN: Luca Blight, outoforder, Oatsmaster
LEAN TOWN: gob, Hu Tao, SuperfluousNinja
MIXED/NULL: Dunnstral, Naerys, MalcolmTucker, Roden
LEAN SCUM: Vivax
SCUM: DarthPunk

Why do you town read me?

Why do you town read me?

idk vibes

i liked your initial interaction with a thread because it looked like town kinda skimming along trying to find something to sink their teeth into. i think scum worries more about looking like they are engaging on a deeper level

uh i liked that you just sheeped my case and didn't worry about how that might look

it's not the strongest town read ever but you haven't given me any reason not to believe in it

Kinda sus reasons tbh. But I guess you could make up better ones if you were lying

I don't believe Hu Tao is mafia either.

Why?

I'm okay with voting Luca or maybe naerys.

kk Hu is probably town here

Why

I found Roden very townie so far.
Laid back much even.

Out of the trio, OutofOrder has the highest odds of just being a scummy townie in my opinion. Mafia playing openly like mafia is good play though so I don't want to freepass that.

Dunnstral and Naerys are those I can't get a read on. They have their pokerface on, Naerys has opinions at least. Just not very verbose about them, so it's hard to tell if there's genuine thought behind them.

Gob is just chaos but he doesn't seem like he has an agenda. Can't tell if he's even serious about what he writes.

I'm currently ISOing Vivax and gauging whether I've got the right read on him as scum.

This one really sticks out to me. Of course we don't know Roden's alignment yet, but look at how careful the language on Roden is here, compared to the rest. It suggests a reluctance to say much, whereas he's comfortable talking about everyone else here (none of whom I think are on his potential scum team).

I'd actually be pretty down to vote vivax. Just based on the vibes I had earlier and what he just did.

If I'm being honest, I was purposely playing like this to see if someone would try to soft defend me when it wasn't warranted since scum usually does things like that to someone they think will eventually be voted out. And scum usually they to soft push a vote someone's way. I originally thought you were doing this, but based on the last couple pages it looks like actually scumread me and have been actively trying to get people to vote me. I don't think scum would do it to an extent you have.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: luca

I think we can move Hu Tao safely into town as well.

The chiming in is rare and rather sparse in words but consistent. Plus I liked the similar thoughts which earlier were in defense of Luca.

This vote in particular helps a lot to further the game into effective action after Roden declined to vote with me and OoO or to formulate a proper evaluation of Luca who he said he only unseriously called mafia in an earlier post.

Roden would probably a better vig target than Oats at this point because he declined the offer to participate in cooperation between me and OoO after we decided to just at least pretend to trust each other. An important step in any reconciliaton process.

I don‘t know if Roden is mafia but I can say that if he isn‘t, he isn‘t intent to help his wincon by putting his (is it pride?) aside to help town form a properly threatening consensus the mafia have to respect contrary to just individual reads.

This was the post I said I was originally sus about him townreading me for

[Hu Tao]

It seems like things are more black and white over there than they are over here

Have you ever killed someone who posted like that and they flipped town?

I think their thinking is too linear.

[Hu Tao]

Dunnstral

Very defensive and lacking ISO overall.

VOTE: Dunnstral

It‘s also like nobody ever wants to bring him up.
Could Ninja + Dunn ve a thing ? The way she picked out Hu Tap felt so random..

Okay so objectively, forgetting about the fact that I know that I'm town.

Why would you steer the direction of the conversation away from me to dunnstral here? Seems like more people were open to thinking me as scum and it was more of a deflection to someone else. I'm getting the feeling I was earlier about you that you could be trying to set me up as being voted and you looking towny for being right about me

Let me make this bigger since they can't seem to fathom thinking objectively in a game of mafia.

[Hu Tao]

can you stop being so disgustingly active
i am not catching up those 18 pages

Tldr: vivex scum

[Hu Tao]

can you stop being so disgustingly active
i am not catching up those 18 pages

Tldr: vivex scum

Not really sure why what he did was scummy but what you did wasn’t scummy tbh

Because it's okay to try and understand where people you think are town are coming from. Are you going to scumread everyone who calls you scum and Town read everyone who calls you town

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: vivax

[Hu Tao]

I missed playing with Oats.
We can do Roden with the Hu Tao-Gate in mind for next phase.

Our host lost her top.

VOTE: Roden

Setting up miselims. This is literally so obvious

[Hu Tao]

I guess I show a post where I was town and agreed that I can see why the person I thought was town thought I was scum? Does that make it make more sense or is this one of those things where you can't comprehend being objective

[Hu Tao]

I missed playing with Oats.
We can do Roden with the Hu Tao-Gate in mind for next phase.

Our host lost her top.

VOTE: Roden

Setting up miselims. This is literally so obvious

Am I not voting mafia? What do you think?

I clearly just said I thought roden was townish

[Hu Tao]

can you stop being so disgustingly active
i am not catching up those 18 pages

Tldr: vivex scum

Not really sure why what he did was scummy but what you did wasn’t scummy tbh

Because it's okay to try and understand where people you think are town are coming from. Are you going to scumread everyone who calls you scum and Town read everyone who calls you town

He thought you were town up to the part you scum slipped.

I literally explained this. But I'm done explaining

[Hu Tao]

I missed playing with Oats.
We can do Roden with the Hu Tao-Gate in mind for next phase.

Our host lost her top.

VOTE: Roden

Setting up miselims. This is literally so obvious

But you wouldn’t be mad if vivax was on you earlier?

Again. Explained already. I scumread him for his fake town read on me

[Hu Tao]

Can we please vote vivax

[Hu Tao]

Gonna be taking a break from this site after I get NK'd tonight, this game was unnecessarily insufferable

I don't blame you. It's like I'm speaking a different language trying to communicate with people

[Hu Tao]

Why the fuck are we on page 80 with zero flips and zero info

Reminder I said this 40 pages ago that we should just end day 1 at that point

[Hu Tao]

I missed playing with Oats.
We can do Roden with the Hu Tao-Gate in mind for next phase.

Our host lost her top.

VOTE: Roden

Setting up miselims. This is literally so obvious

But you wouldn’t be mad if vivax was on you earlier?

Again. Explained already. I scumread him for his fake town read on me

You wouldn’t be mad if vivax scum read you earlier?

If you mean before the situation earlier? Depends on the reason he scumread me and if it made sense. But if it made sense then no

[Hu Tao]

Ah yes, our 80 page debacle that involved pre-emptively saying roden was caught scum turned out to be wrong. Let's continue on the wrong path

[Hu Tao]

is this gonna become vivax vs. hu tao

Anyone else in mind?

[Hu Tao]

I wouldnt mind going back on oats

Nah i think oats is town

[Hu Tao]

Is there a way for us to confirm that there IS a jailkeeper in this game? Like will the jailkept person be told "you were kept in jail" or some such thing?

No. Unless there is like a no kill. Or someone is role blocked I guess.

[Hu Tao]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: hu tao

Why was this your first reaction? Did you not have the same questions as your other sitemates?

[Hu Tao]

I think I'm at e-1 ?

[Hu Tao]

I'm actually unsure of votes right now actually

[Hu Tao]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: hu tao

Why was this your first reaction? Did you not have the same questions as your other sitemates?

No, they aren’t used to actual powers

Are there no power roles on your site? I'm confused

[Hu Tao]

I‘m disappointed in the ability of this town to form pressure that Dunnstral didn‘t have to do more.

I'm disappointed of this town using 80 pages to call roden scum to only be wrong. And not consider a reset

[Hu Tao]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: hu tao

Why was this your first reaction? Did you not have the same questions as your other sitemates?

No, they aren’t used to actual powers

Are there no power roles on your site? I'm confused

Very few. Id say we would have 1-2 blue roles in a normal game. One of my favourite roles on TL was Named VT which was basically a Titled Townie with no actions, purely as a claim lol.

Ooh. That's actually very interesting. I'd want to play that way sometime

[Hu Tao]

Vote count please our moderator

[Hu Tao]

The more we write the more scum has to do reading they don‘t want to do the more easy it is for then to make mistakes.

I'm not quite sure I follow. Roden literally just complained about this and he's town

[Hu Tao]

Even though that blanket agreement by Hu Tao looked like she told on herself, I‘d be willing to do Dunn or Naerys instead.

The more we write the more scum has to do reading they don‘t want to do the more easy it is for then to make mistakes.

This strat kept town from keeping up and then outed a PR

[Hu Tao]

does anyone have a strong read on grackaroni at all

Literally forgot they were in the game until I did a readslist. I'd be fine settling there too

[Hu Tao]

does anyone have a strong read on grackaroni at all

Not super strong but he's a lean town for me

Why

I just scrolled through his ISO

And idk there is nothing *scummy* exactly but nothing that makes me want to town read him

That's pretty much why. He doesn't seem scummy and generally he feels reasonable and cooperative with his posts.

Being reasonable is the bare minimum this game, I agree

[Hu Tao]

Gonna be taking a break from this site after I get NK'd tonight, this game was unnecessarily insufferable

I don't blame you. It's like I'm speaking a different language trying to communicate with people

I said this earlier but it's basically half the player list experiencing culture shock with the other and both sides calling each other bad

It makes me think Punk is less likely to be scum and that townies on their site just play scum-adjacently

You have a town read that agreed with a post that called them scum, this is hilarious

This literally never happened and was explained to you multiple times.

NGL, Vivax's sudden vote on Dunnstral feels like a panic move in response to a sudden plethora of convincing evidence of Hu Tao's guilt. Why are we suddenly shifting to Dunnstral? How convenient that it's a fairly inactive person. How odd that Vivax says so little to justify the vote.

I don't really like how little engagement Vivax made with my request for info on Hu Tao, either. He seemed unaware that I even suspected him, and frankly I haven't a clue what to make of that, but it's either neutral or willful scum obstinance.

We actually agree for once

This says otherwise

Why do you refuse to read

[Hu Tao]

I'm going to guess 1 scum in those who refuse to read logic.

[Hu Tao]

Not really sure why I’m obligated to believe what you justified this with.

I am reading and that right there is someone who agreed with a post that called them mafia.

Did you ignore the post where I said I can show a previous town game where I said I could understand where someone who I townread said they scumread me and agree with their logic. Or does that not fit the narrative

[Hu Tao]

Hu Tao does the fact that Naerys voted me not influence your read on both of us at all ?

According to your list you should be roughly at me/naerys.

I‘d like to go Dunn or Naerys because I acknowledge that your tone is very good, mostly.

And the way you didn‘t go after Ninja or Oats also gives you townie points.

I don‘t want it to be TvT

Naerys could be scum, I did say this earlier

[Hu Tao]

I am less confident in hu tao being scum now that

they've revealed that they have been specifically trying to play around seeing who would town read them / defend them suspiciously

I never believe people when they say this.

That just implies that she's playing an entirely reactive game.

I've fake claimed doctor as VT before. I do unorthodox things. That's the best way to catch scum.

[Hu Tao]

Vivax and Hu Tao are just trying to shift the wagon to the most inactive player to set up an easy misyeet, FYI.

I wouldn't play along with a Naerys yeet without good reason.

So.. your take is that after all this... me and vivax are scum together?

[Hu Tao]

Also, are people actually falling for Hu Tao's dog-ate-my-homework-esque excuse that they were intentionally acting scummy as a feint? As a town I feel like a legitimate contemplation of that strategy would lead you to realize how much of a terrible idea it is in like 2 seconds.

You should really read my past town games. You'll REALLY hate those.

[Hu Tao]

Vivax and Hu Tao are just trying to shift the wagon to the most inactive player to set up an easy misyeet, FYI.

I wouldn't play along with a Naerys yeet without good reason.

So.. your take is that after all this... me and vivax are scum together?

Yes.

"Even though we wrote all this stuff going after each other?"

Still yes. That was an impressive show but it didn't fool me.

Interesting. So why vote me over him?

[Hu Tao]

I think I'm e-2 now

[Hu Tao]

I think I'm e-2 now

you going to post that other game or not?

It's locked so it's hard to post but you can see in my iso. I tell naerys that I'm sus about her reason for town reading me cause I can see why others think I'm scummy.

Yes I was town.

viewtopic.php?p=13963126#p13963126

[Hu Tao]

I took a look at a game hu Tao and Dunn were both town in, (as well as gob but I didn’t iso gob)

Hu Tao didn’t post like at all during lylo where they got yeeted. Not really sure what’s up with that. That game also devolved into setup speculation and claims etc which doesn’t seem particularly valuable.

Dunn was significantly more involved in that game I thought and had some really good posts that I have not seen here at all.
Dunn mafia :>

I play differently every game as scum and town. I literally used this against people last game and won as scum because they soul read my town meta. So I think you'll not get much from meta reading. But feel free to try

[Hu Tao]

I think I'm e-2 now

you going to post that other game or not?

It's locked so it's hard to post but you can see in my iso. I tell naerys that I'm sus about her reason for town reading me cause I can see why others think I'm scummy.

Yes I was town.

viewtopic.php?p=13963126#p13963126

Yeah ok, I really don't think that is the same tho.

Yeah okay. it literally shows what I proved that I can agree with people who think I'm scummy when I'm town

[Hu Tao]

I think I'm e-2 now

you going to post that other game or not?

It's locked so it's hard to post but you can see in my iso. I tell naerys that I'm sus about her reason for town reading me cause I can see why others think I'm scummy.

Yes I was town.

viewtopic.php?p=13963126#p13963126

Yeah ok, I really don't think that is the same tho.

Yeah okay. it literally shows what I proved that I can agree with people who think I'm scummy when I'm town

I don't think that's weird. I agreed with Luca's post on me and at the same time feel he's guilty of the same.

Okay. Then what's your reasoning for scumreading me?

[Hu Tao]

Vivax is basically already green checked to me, so Hu Tao jumping on Vivax as trying to avoid looking bad for being a part of her wagon as her main contribution in the game reads quite scummy to me.

Ah okay. So basically because you think vivax is town, it's warping your view.

So from my point of view, if vivax is scum wouldn't it be possible for him to soft defend me as town if he thinks I'm going to be eliminated anyway?

[Hu Tao]

hu tao, in world where vivax is town, where do you think scum are?

Probably one of the people that are being stubborn. I think there is one scum in there for sure. It's easily to blend in. I guess maybe it's Punk or Oats. At least vivax was willing to see a world where I'm town after being stubborn. I still think ninja is town since that's been her SR since the beginning. Luca could still be scum. Naerys too.

[Hu Tao]

UNVOTE:

[Hu Tao]

Is DarthPunk a very good player?

[Hu Tao]

Vivax is basically already green checked to me, so Hu Tao jumping on Vivax as trying to avoid looking bad for being a part of her wagon as her main contribution in the game reads quite scummy to me.

Ah okay. So basically because you think vivax is town, it's warping your view.

So from my point of view, if vivax is scum wouldn't it be possible for him to soft defend me as town if he thinks I'm going to be eliminated anyway?

He hyper-reacts to stimuli.

I really strongly believe that I'm able to read him from a long history of playing with him and as naive as it sounds he's posted that I get him in the thread as well.

For me you were in the same spot where you placed me in your list post (Grack who?). You weren't really involved with the game prior to this push, and knowing that the push and the reasoning behind it is wrong is enough for me to move you from null to scum lean.

Fair. But I think I've been active in spurts and not just right now. It's possible I could be paranoid on vivax.

[Hu Tao]

Is DarthPunk a very good player?

Yeah I think he may be one of the strongest on the site.

Ooh exciting

[Hu Tao]

Okay who is very against a Luca elimination right now and why

[Hu Tao]

None of these are actual good reasons to scumread me. If I was scum I could easily make up reads if I wanted to.

I mean you're trying to give an argument here for why you should be allowed to not participate in the game. You're trying to say, why bother moving anything forward since I might be scum and misleading you all?! I mean you can trust that we've all considered that possibility.

Yes you can make up reads, but if you actually commit to them and put them down here, that's what actually helps us to figure out what you are. The fact that you're trying to create a space that is amenable to you not having to offer useful information, not having to move the game forward at all, not having to offer anything that helps us sort out your alignment, is only deepening my suspicion of you.

I'm just someone who takes awhile to come up with reads in general. You can see any of my past town games and see this as fact if you really need to.

You said this earlier, why are you contradicting this statement now?

Is 80 pages not enough?

[Hu Tao]

Okay who is very against a Luca elimination right now and why

I am against it, but not very against it.

I am thinking we go dunnstral here unironically. I still need to catch up though but the fact I haven't seen dunn post at all and can't remember any of their posts is a bad sign.

Isn't Dunn kinda like he was in commercials game the 3 of us were in? I'll lean on you with this though since I read him wrong the whole time

[Hu Tao]

None of these are actual good reasons to scumread me. If I was scum I could easily make up reads if I wanted to.

I mean you're trying to give an argument here for why you should be allowed to not participate in the game. You're trying to say, why bother moving anything forward since I might be scum and misleading you all?! I mean you can trust that we've all considered that possibility.

Yes you can make up reads, but if you actually commit to them and put them down here, that's what actually helps us to figure out what you are. The fact that you're trying to create a space that is amenable to you not having to offer useful information, not having to move the game forward at all, not having to offer anything that helps us sort out your alignment, is only deepening my suspicion of you.

I'm just someone who takes awhile to come up with reads in general. You can see any of my past town games and see this as fact if you really need to.

You said this earlier, why are you contradicting this statement now?

Is 80 pages not enough?

“You can look at my meta to confirm that I do this as town”
“Don’t bother looking at my meta, I play differently every game”
???

I mean that is one thing I struggle with. Just being honest there. I've stated that a few times in my town games.

[Hu Tao]

Why would you say meta isn’t useful when you literally are saying here that it’s useful?

Because I've actively been using it against people. But I guess that doesn't apply to people who don't know me

[Hu Tao]

None of these are actual good reasons to scumread me. If I was scum I could easily make up reads if I wanted to.

I mean you're trying to give an argument here for why you should be allowed to not participate in the game. You're trying to say, why bother moving anything forward since I might be scum and misleading you all?! I mean you can trust that we've all considered that possibility.

Yes you can make up reads, but if you actually commit to them and put them down here, that's what actually helps us to figure out what you are. The fact that you're trying to create a space that is amenable to you not having to offer useful information, not having to move the game forward at all, not having to offer anything that helps us sort out your alignment, is only deepening my suspicion of you.

I'm just someone who takes awhile to come up with reads in general. You can see any of my past town games and see this as fact if you really need to.

You said this earlier, why are you contradicting this statement now?

Is 80 pages not enough?

“You can look at my meta to confirm that I do this as town”
“Don’t bother looking at my meta, I play differently every game”
???

I mean that is one thing I struggle with. Just being honest there. I've stated that a few times in my town games.

Who do you think is mafia?

If you get yeeted right now and flip town who should we be looking at afterwards?

Already said this a few posts ago. I'm starting to think you could be scum. You don't seem to be active in the scumhunting but more of a backseat egging on.

[Hu Tao]

Why would you say meta isn’t useful when you literally are saying here that it’s useful?

Because I've actively been using it against people. But I guess that doesn't apply to people who don't know me

Okay so here’s the situation.
Hu Tao: “you can look at my meta to see that I’m townie”
Also Hu Tao: “don’t bother looking at my meta to see if I’m scummy”

You can see how this is a very odd mindset to have as a townie correct?

Understandable. Counterpoint, as scum why would I not just say look at my meta. Why would I try not to warn you about not looking too much into my meta?

[Hu Tao]

HT have your reads not changed at all since earlier?

Have my reads not changed in the 2 pages I've outed reads? No

[Hu Tao]

If you think I am scum do you think I could be scum with Luca who is your other scum read?

This is what I mean. If you were town and actually trying to sort me, you would have seen what I just said to Dann about this. This feels fake

[Hu Tao]

If you think I am scum do you think I could be scum with Luca who is your other scum read?

This is what I mean. If you were town and actually trying to sort me, you would have seen what I just said to Dann about this. This feels fake

you mean this?

hu tao, in world where vivax is town, where do you think scum are?

Probably one of the people that are being stubborn. I think there is one scum in there for sure. It's easily to blend in. I guess maybe it's Punk or Oats. At least vivax was willing to see a world where I'm town after being stubborn. I still think ninja is town since that's been her SR since the beginning. Luca could still be scum. Naerys too.

That is not what I am asking. I am asking specifically if it makes sense for you to think Luca and I could be scum together?

I thought it was implied from the post, but yes it's possible

[Hu Tao]

Why would you say meta isn’t useful when you literally are saying here that it’s useful?

Because I've actively been using it against people. But I guess that doesn't apply to people who don't know me

Okay so here’s the situation.
Hu Tao: “you can look at my meta to see that I’m townie”
Also Hu Tao: “don’t bother looking at my meta to see if I’m scummy”

You can see how this is a very odd mindset to have as a townie correct?

Understandable. Counterpoint, as scum why would I not just say look at my meta. Why would I try not to warn you about not looking too much into my meta?

Because you don’t want people making connections between your scum play in previous games and this one.
You can say all you want that it’s indistinguishable but there will definitely be similarities

Okay. Do you want me to post my last 2 scum games?

[Hu Tao]

You're asking for reads when I just posted reads.

[Hu Tao]

You're asking for reads when I just posted reads.

I was trying to engage with you about the game when you are close to being yeeted. You really didn't seem to want to engage.

Funny. Grack says he scumreads me for being engaged when I have pressure, you say you scumread me for not being engaged when I have pressure. I can never win.

[Hu Tao]

Why would you say meta isn’t useful when you literally are saying here that it’s useful?

Because I've actively been using it against people. But I guess that doesn't apply to people who don't know me

Okay so here’s the situation.
Hu Tao: “you can look at my meta to see that I’m townie”
Also Hu Tao: “don’t bother looking at my meta to see if I’m scummy”

You can see how this is a very odd mindset to have as a townie correct?

Understandable. Counterpoint, as scum why would I not just say look at my meta. Why would I try not to warn you about not looking too much into my meta?

Because you don’t want people making connections between your scum play in previous games and this one.
You can say all you want that it’s indistinguishable but there will definitely be similarities

Okay. Do you want me to post my last 2 scum games?

Yes please

I believe these are my last 2.

viewtopic.php?t=91827

viewtopic.php?t=92058

Curious why you don't want to see a town game though.

[Hu Tao]

Why would you say meta isn’t useful when you literally are saying here that it’s useful?

Because I've actively been using it against people. But I guess that doesn't apply to people who don't know me

Okay so here’s the situation.
Hu Tao: “you can look at my meta to see that I’m townie”
Also Hu Tao: “don’t bother looking at my meta to see if I’m scummy”

You can see how this is a very odd mindset to have as a townie correct?

Understandable. Counterpoint, as scum why would I not just say look at my meta. Why would I try not to warn you about not looking too much into my meta?

Because you don’t want people making connections between your scum play in previous games and this one.
You can say all you want that it’s indistinguishable but there will definitely be similarities

Okay. Do you want me to post my last 2 scum games?

Yes please

I believe these are my last 2.

viewtopic.php?t=91827

viewtopic.php?t=92058

Curious why you don't want to see a town game though.

I would like to see 2 town games as well please

viewtopic.php?t=91775 viewtopic.php?t=91986

2nd one una was scumreading me all game and I could understand why and still Town read them. So it's similar to this one i guess.

[Hu Tao]

Oops it's the 1st

[Hu Tao]

Ninja can you post a list of your reads please.

I'll just copy and paste the notes I keep on my desktop.

TOWN
Luca Blight - active, good take in post 56
Dannflor - very active. Strangely aggressive? but still making good arguments
Oatsmaster - aggressive pushback on Roden, being a jerk, which is kinda townie tell

NULL
Outoforder - active, but acting in odd and suspicious ways, need better explanations
DarthPunk - very active, Post 57 struck me as sus and I commented on it
Vivax - very active, Back and forth with him over DarthPunk comment, but untrustworthy
Naerys - inactive
Hu Tao - inactive

SCUM
Gob - slightly more active but underwhelming, some bizarre play with the case on Vivax
Roden - was inactive, then strangely aggressive after I pushed him for it, defensive / dismissive
Dunnstral - inactive for a long period, pushed back on my activity level post

MalcolmTucker is afk so they could be anything.

I don't think it was strategically wise for you to place Dannflor in the top tier town here and calling his arguments good when he's voting for you. If it's some kind of reverse psychology thing, Gob already took the spot for being in charge for that.

Got to give it to DP that asking for a list post after that humongous wall of pressure from Dann was pivotal to the generation of this reaction. Oats on the other hand displaying possible signs of a bus with the quick vote and later unvote. If they're paired it must look like napalm to him indeed. Noted, but not damning.

Someone can scumread you and still be town if they make sense even if the conclusion is wrong. So I disagree with this take

I just realized, I said it THIS game way early on. To vivax. How ironic

[Hu Tao]

Yes pretty common.

[Hu Tao]

I get bored if I'm only in 1 game at a time personally

[Hu Tao]

Oh no, Luca. You agreed with a post that said you were scum. You're automatically scum. That's how it works. Sorry, I don't make the rules

[Hu Tao]

Have fun catching up with 40 pages

[Hu Tao]

Have fun catching up with 40 pages

This is normal for us, this game:

Spoiler:

https://tl.net/forum/mafia/474082-imperial-mafia

was 10.2k posts lol

Things make so much more sense now

[Hu Tao]

I forgot about that survivalistic post from Dunn, yeah that was bad

[Hu Tao]

After skimming through the 2 scum games and the 2 town games from hu tao, I did pick up that in the scum games she will continue to press people who townread her why they do so, with an attitude like "well what did I do to deserve it".

Which is how I think shes playing it here too.

This game is also completely tonally different from any of the previous 4 games, those 4 games were pretty similar, very lighthearted and easy.

Just my personal speculation, I feel like she would be way more intentional about "changing" her meta if she was scum and she does also reference her meta a fair bit more in the scum games rather than the town games.

So Im still confident in scumreading hu tao

Not good analysis. Because in the town games I also do that. I ask people why they have their read of me