Mini 2321: Classic Commercials (Postgame)

[Bingle]

I got nothing to say

Shan’t say nothing if you don’t say please.

[Bingle]

Sup nerds
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

voting the biggest nerd

VOTE: kyouko

Lim all lyres.

[Bingle]

I got nothing to say

Shan’t say nothing if you don’t say please.

tf you say to me?

I fart in your general direction.

[Bingle]

I got nothing to say

Shan’t say nothing if you don’t say please.

tf you say to me?

hush, pink fluffy menace

Why you tryna stifle? I wanna get the blood pumping up in here.

[Bingle]

Hey flavor, come dancing.

[Bingle]

I got nothing to say

Shan’t say nothing if you don’t say please.

tf you say to me?

hush, pink fluffy menace

Why you tryna stifle? I wanna get the blood pumping up in here.

i love making fun of gob

Is there a game motivation, or is he just an excellent punching gob?

[Bingle]

Hmm. Townread retracted.

[Bingle]

Gob, come bicker. I’m bored, and your reads are for shit. At least 15 scumbutts have already posted.

[Bingle]

What makes you think that the active people are town? I’ve actually felt this start is pretty stilted and bland compared to other games.

[Bingle]

Bloop

[Bingle]

I wish I had the time to open the game by doing every scum tell in my first post, but the way my work schedule is set up…

Can you at least tell us you think the person you replaced is super scummy?

[Bingle]

What makes you think that the active people are town? I’ve actually felt this start is pretty stilted and bland compared to other games.

I can just tell somehow

Is it the access list in the scum PT?

[Bingle]

I can give you an I’m not reading anything from before I repped in.

RCE is a Titus alt? Holy shit.

[Bingle]

that's a choice

scum flavor or town flavor
the most important choice of whole game

I’m partial to raspberry myself.

[Bingle]

Flavor, come do the thing with me.

VOTE: Dunn

[Bingle]

I would suggest finding thomith and bingle as town though.

This seems a bit easy of townreads

What do you mean?

I don't see anything worth a town read even after their explanation

How dare you? I am the towniest town that ever towned, and to say anything else is a personal attack on my character.

Why don't you think scumRCE would post early townreads?

[Bingle]

My meta research on Hu Tao indicates they usually (always?) open with a greeting and no rvs vote, across both alignments

Serious question, Dunn. How often do you actually do meta research?

[Bingle]

If there’s anything you can be sure about with FL it’s that you can’t be sure about any read he gives out before like…day 4.

A group of us just won a game where we hit all 3 scum by day 4. 2 of them were my day 1 soul reads.

The other I guiltied.

1 of them was Flavor Leaf.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf Bad arguments

VOTE: gob

Bad your face.

[Bingle]

I want to chime in here a little. I've recently played with Gob as town (granted he was part of a hydra), and immediately, he did something in this game that he also did at the start of that game, where he randomly labelled half the players as probably town with a vague reason to get reactions.

Woah, now, no need to get personal with your attacks.

[Bingle]

Do you have any non meta reads?

[Bingle]

Not too many—I do like Thomith’s questions, though.

How do you intend to change that?

[Bingle]

My only reads still are rce and Thom town. Anyone have any strong scumread so far?

Hu Tao, FL, Dunn, gob. Not necessarily in that order.

[Bingle]

My only reads still are rce and Thom town. Anyone have any strong scumread so far?

Hu Tao, FL, Dunn, gob. Not necessarily in that order.

I can kind of tell why you suspect Dunn from your ISO, but why do you scumread Hu Tao, FL and gob?

gob is pushing FL for having bad reasoning, not for anything actually scum indicative.
FL seems to be avoiding scumreading me and avoiding working with me, which is moderately scum indicative because we're a force of nature when we're both town and I have a very solid record of soulreading him.
Hu Tao is avoiding seriously engaging with anything in favor of little throwaway posts like:

VOTE: Flavor Leaf Bad arguments

Why are they bad?

Flavor admitted the arguments were bad

Hu Tao could definitely be wolfing here.

I could be. But why?

PoE + obvious

Not a defense. Also didn't you do this exact same thing as scum? The response?

I didn't know emojis were scummy

Like... This is the kind of thing that has no real purpose. It's posting to be posting, and it's focusing on a push on her that's going nowhere but not really in a way that makes me think she's actually looking to figure out what gob's alignment is.


For bonus points, the specific thing Dunn went looking for seems like a thing that wouldn't really be expected to give results, which makes me think it's fake in a LAMIST way. Like, outside of super tryhards, I wouldn't expect anyone to meta whether someone says hi coming into a game. And when the result of the meta was "Nothing to see here, folks, move along." I would expect town Dunn to just not care. The fact that Dunn questioned it, spent 30 minutes doing meta research, apparently, and then undercut his own line of questioning just feels performative.

[Bingle]

Gotta get rid of Bingle here

Hardclaim deathproof lim redirecting PGO. Goodluck.

[Bingle]

It means if we eliminate me then I pick someone else to die instead, I can't be killed by either nightkill or elimination, and if you target me I kill you reflexively.

Also, all of those are roles or modifiers that can't exist in Normal games.

[Bingle]

It’ll naturally change as the game evolves—just trying to get a feel for everyone so far before I jump in headfirst. Watching y’all argue has been helping with that, though.

The drawback to fly-on-the-wall as town is that no one can sort you. The advantage to fly-on-the-wall as scum is that no one can sort you. Do you think Dunn meta-ing Hu Tao's choice of opening is something that someone would be likely to do?

[Bingle]

VOTE: Flavor

Kill Vanilla Townie with little claims, and move from there.

Still the best town victory strat lately.

We both know I'm not interested in fading you today. Always so dramatic.

[Bingle]

perhaps you’re trying to pressure someone in the hopes of a slip-up

Yes.

I am 100% trying to pressure people into being readable.

[Bingle]

Could I interest you with a fob vote Roden? You seem to be about where I am wrt that whole biz.

[Bingle]

Gob, not fob.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf Bad arguments

VOTE: gob

Bad your face.

Could I interest you with a fob vote Roden? You seem to be about where I am wrt that whole biz.

How come you’re trying to go after my push now that I’m trying to get myself faded?

Have you been falling through holes in time again?

[Bingle]

VOTE: Gob

We can speed lim this if we form a mob

Why are we speed limming with over a week before the deadline?

It’s not really a speed lim if we wait until deadline, now is it. Then it’s just a lim.

[Bingle]

Too ready to overexplain town!gob

TMI or S/S?

[Bingle]

Hi, I'd pull a, "I’m not reading anything from before I repped in." like RCE, but the fact that I saw that post probably contradicts that ploy.

But did you scumread abundantly? Honestly worst iso in the thread.

[Bingle]

I think SirCakes is scum cause he usually does this slank type shit as scum (i taught him)

But i dont want to lim him, i want to play with him

@cakez can you confirm/deny this endorsement? Further, can you confirm gob likes to scumslank? Further further, hey, how’s it goin?

[Bingle]

Too ready to overexplain town!gob

TMI or S/S?

UHHHHH kind of a weird post

the S/S would have TMI lol. Why you hesitant to call Wiz scum?

I’m not particularly scumreading wiz, but these are two different universes. Universe 2 is where wiz knows your town and is therefore arguing from an informed perspective. Universe B is where your buddies and wiz doesn’t want you going down or yelling timber. I’m asking kyo which she thinks is more likely here, as an attempt to get into kyo’s headspace.

WRT cakez, I was interested in what cakez has to say on the matter, not what you did.

I would be interested in your thoughts on whether scum should slank and why you either support that strat for cakez specifically or in general without using it yourself, assuming I take your “I don’t slank” implication at face value.

[Bingle]

Ignore the poor grammar, I’m mobile and Siri doesn’t English so good.

[Bingle]

You TMI know kyo is town so you're trying to get town!kyo to go after me and wiz.

I'm rather interested in how I am 'getting ssbm to go after you/wiz by asking ssbm about her push on wiz, but you do you ig.

[Bingle]

Posting the bare minimum and just generally flying under the radar.

[Bingle]

My problem at this point is that if you're scum, this looks like you're trying to fake distance yourself from me. Your scum reads reek of "rule of 3" and your callousness towards me feels out of place yet intentional.

I don’t think this is a post scum roden makes about town gob. It could 100% be a post scum roden makes about scum gob, though, and actually looks worse association wise than anything gob may have been trying to do.

[Bingle]

I think Bingle and Gob have more partner equity than Roden and Gob for sure.

I do think Roden bringing up fake distancing is a stretch if Scum/Scum, and would require the two of them to be working well together. I doubt they’d have found their footing this fast in this game as partners.

Really? I think the opposite. I think it shows them NOT meshing well. Like, Roden seems way more concerned about how he’ll look if gob flips scum than I’d expect town to be, and it’s that self conscious feeling that makes me think they might be teamed.

[Bingle]

You also are looking at everything on a complete surface level without even realizing I have a whole damn underground secret base researching endlessly and automatically.

Remember that time I waltzed into your secret base, kicked your ass, and took your master ball? Good times. Good times.

[Bingle]

Does anyone else feel like they have really solid reads on a couple people but absolutely shit to work with for the majority of the class, or is it just me?

[Bingle]

I prefer being called Kyouko or an abbreviation of that (Kyo, Kyou, Ky) rather than ssbm,

Noted, please let me know if I backslide again. I’m very inconsistent with abbreviations.

[Bingle]

gob bad, FL bad, bingle why do you take gob at face value that cakez is slanking, thomith good

I’m not taking gob at face value, I’m using that as an engagement point with cakez when/if Cakez shows up. It may lead to a read on gob incidentally, but primarily it’s about cakez himself.

[Bingle]

←THE LINE→

The sand.

[Bingle]

Do you think FL could be bussing gob here Bingle?

Unlikely. If scum, FL wants the gob flip to happen, and I don't think he plans to powerwolf a lobby with me given my history of being able to read him. I'm starting to lean town on FL regardless though.

[Bingle]

I swear I'll be here tonight

[Bingle]

Dunn’s posts feel like they’re saying very little—like he’s delivering reads that have only a small amount of weight behind them to look invested and impactful without having to be the center of attention. At the same time, it feels like they’re token acts to push attention away from gob, maybe?

If there was more meat to the points he makes, I would think it less suspicious, but it’s also that the reads seem to be designed to divert attention away from gob’s wagon—like 333/335 shading Bingle for trying to associate gob and Roden or 369/371 calling Hu Tao townie for being unsure about the current wagons (notably, Hu Tao is the competing wagon, mine).

I admit, I’m a little less sure about the argument of him trying to support gob, but I do really think he is trying to kind of, uh, not make visible waves—small impacts that hide in plain sight.

VOTE: Dunnstral.

Ew.

[Bingle]

I think Bingle and Gob have more partner equity than Roden and Gob for sure.

I do think Roden bringing up fake distancing is a stretch if Scum/Scum, and would require the two of them to be working well together. I doubt they’d have found their footing this fast in this game as partners.

Really? I think the opposite. I think it shows them NOT meshing well. Like, Roden seems way more concerned about how he’ll look if gob flips scum than I’d expect town to be, and it’s that self conscious feeling that makes me think they might be teamed.

Hmm, I can see that, actually. I don’t necessarily think it’s happening, but like i said, I’m town reading Roden, but i get what you’re saying

Fair. I think the actual conclusion of that post is pretty strong though, especially considering no one jumped on it because the lead was slightly buried. I think if gob is town roden is also town.

[Bingle]

I think this is where I'm at right now:

FL - Seemed to try and get the game moving when it was slow early on. Early gut townread.
RCE - Bold statement trusting people early on that I agree with Hu Tao, I'm not convinced scum would do that early.

Hu tao - feels different to me than last game i played with them, where they were scum, which makes me kind of want to townread, but not confidently
gob - my brain is telling me that gob is being weird, but my gut is still telling me he's town, so I'm still conflicted here.

Bingle - struggling to read properly, but they haven't done anything inherently scum indicative
Roden - a lot of short posts that also read as quite fluffy to me. I also didn't really like the quicklim comment, which I'll wait for an explanation about before I decide here.
Wiz - I was leaning town on him, but Kyouko has kind of begun convincing me I may have been wrong about this.

Cele - Their catchup seemed to be echoing others points/points that were already made, but I guess that could be genuine as there probably aren't a lot of points left unmade yet.
Kyouko - mostly gut, mainly because again, to me her play just feels different than I remember it being?
Naerys - I still think could be scum, but I could be convinced to give her the benefit of the doubt and see if my perception changes on Day 2, to see if they are just weak on Day 1 like she claims.

Dunn - I've mentioned my suspicions on him already - i dislike not holding every slot to the same standards, while also doing (or in this case not doing) what he was questioning other slots about.

Not enough info:
Sircakez

this reads list is pretty bad
every read has basically a cop out scenario like there's no conviction behind it at all

This is the face I want taking care of my garbage.

[Bingle]

Bloop

[Bingle]

In what world where I am scum is this ever even a possibility?

Pretty sure I could manage it .

[Bingle]

like I'm not sure how Bingle's question is meant to lead me to go after you and wiz. If I say TMI it's because I think Wiz is TMIing you as town, if I say S/S it's because I think it's S/S.

I do like this post though

Assuming like here means like for town, why? I kind of already pointed out that the accusation was nonsense, and I think agreeing that nonsense is nonsense is pretty NAI.

[Bingle]

I had a long day yesterday and passed the fuck out when I got to my hotel. I’ll be around for to stir up shit tonight.

[Bingle]

imo, bingle and i are decently synced up this game

Nah.

[Bingle]

I think we just lim Cakez here. If he's town, it's his fault. Not even really joking although many may take it as a joke.

No?

Cakez is pretty towny and this is a garbage take.

[Bingle]

im the best scum player maybe ever, so you wont be able to catch me.

Oh, are we telling jokes?

I know this really good one:

A horse walks into a bar, and the bartender groans in annoyance. He say "Oh, god, not this again."

The horse, understandably angered by the closed minded bartender says, "Now see here! I don't think..." and immediately vanishes.

You may not understand that joke without a little bit of clarification. You see, there's a famous French Philosopher named Rene Descartes. Descartes, among other things is known for positing the idea that "I doubt, therefore I am" or as it is sometimes mistranslated "I think, therefore I am." Now, I could have told you about Rene Descartes before I told you the joke, but that would be putting Descartes before De Horse.

[Bingle]

How so Bingle?

The immediate jump at FL on entry, the suspicion of you for buddying when clearly he could lean into your support if he was genuinely trying to lim FL as scum, the pandering to me while trying to lim the person I'd already explained was someone I have a really good track record at reading, the understanding that I am objectively the strongest this game.

All of these are pretty towny.

[Bingle]

Kind of seems like you built in an excuse when i flip town with the whole “i want to be right” stuff

This doesn't track, for me. Like, Kyo pretty clearly has put a lot of effort into this and without going through to check I can say it's fairly trustworthy that it's all true because it would be insanely easy to catch Kyo lying here. I have a pretty solid townread on Kyo based on the effort put into this tell, and suspecting this much effort on a tell that's predestined to ripcord out doesn't seem natural to me.

[Bingle]

i dont know if i believe it's accurate either.

I explicitly don't, FWIW.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Naerys

Roden had this ping earlier, and I wasn't there. I got the ping in 477, and I can't explain why I think that, so maybe some pressure can help my read there.

I generally think that when I line up with a Roden ping pages later, it turns out to be right. We successfully got a strong town read on KittyTacky in a recent game collectively after we were both pushing Kitty prior. And we town read for kinda weak reasonings, but felt it strongly.

I think I'm interested in a Naerys wagon right now. Curious how gamestate evolves with this wrench.

I've had the pings, but I don't think it's a productive wagon, tbh, given the number of other options I'm interested in.

[Bingle]

I feel like if you were actually convinced it was me, you’d actually vote me—I think you’re hesitating because you’re trying to gauge Flavor’s reaction to you saying this before you commit to the vote.

This is quite literally the first Wiz post I thought was town indicative.

[Bingle]

@Roden/Bingle - thoughts on sheeping Hu Tao onto Wiz today?

No.

[Bingle]

RCEnigma/Bingle/Roden/Flavor

Noncommittal Hmm.

[Bingle]

Let’s do it

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I win basically every town game I martyr myself

No.

[Bingle]

I actively fuck with my scum meta constantly to get people to think they know how to meta me, and then they get screwed over.

And yet, how many times have I been wrong when I soulread you?

btw, FL is town here, take it to the bank.

[Bingle]

Can you both stop arguing and vote cakes

You think this is arguing? Hell, they're basically flirting.

[Bingle]

So... I'm caught up and I have one more thing I have to post before I do the thing that makes the stuff happen.

Naerys asked me for a reads list, so:

https://www.amazon.com/Seveneves-Neal-S ... 146&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Snow-Crash-Neal- ... 146&sr=8-9

https://www.amazon.com/Anathem/dp/B086W ... 46&sr=8-20

https://www.amazon.com/The-Lies-of-Lock ... 120&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/John-Dies-at-End ... 114&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Futuristic-Viole ... 113&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/House-Leaves-Mar ... 116&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Night-Watch-Serg ... 137&sr=8-8

https://www.amazon.com/IMMERSED-CONTINU ... 105&sr=8-1

Sorry, haven't had a whole lot of time to read recently, so this will have to do.

[Bingle]

I will note that I have been meaning to start the rabbit hole known as Terry Pratchet.

[Bingle]

Oh, and the thing.

VOTE: Roden

[Bingle]

We have 3 days and I’m about to get on a plane. Give me ~6 hours.

[Bingle]

No you aren't lol

You got a lot of TMI this game it seems.

i would check/kill you at some point as well.

Flavor check, Roden check/kill, and whatever i said before

JIC, don’t invest flavor. I am a literal Bingle among men men at reading FL and he’s town.

[Bingle]

Naerys -> SR -> Dunn -> SR -> Wiz -> idk I didn’t get to their recent reads or I skipped over it. But it’s still an interesting triangle.

Is it an interesting triangle because any three individual points form a triangle? Cause I’m not seeing a why to tie those three together.

[Bingle]

Dunnstral hammering the way they did looks like scum locking in the hammer before people would get PR scared.

The hammer was fine-ish, other than that it stopped me from being able to post eod thoughts. I don’t find that to be sketch from Dunn, but I can understand your thought process wrt me/Dunn being a thing.

[Bingle]

Naerys -> SR -> Dunn -> SR -> Wiz -> idk I didn’t get to their recent reads or I skipped over it. But it’s still an interesting triangle.

Is it an interesting triangle because any three individual points form a triangle? Cause I’m not seeing a why to tie those three together.

If gob got flipped through a doc claim with no scum input, I’d be pretty surprised.

I’m town, fl town, kyouko flipped town, I’m taking FLs Roden read at face value as town.

Naerys/Dunn/Wiz is left over on the wagon and highly likely to contain at least 1 scum and in that trio 2 are opposed to Dunn. I think it’s fairly interesting.

Honestly, I’d be surprised at no scum on wagon exactly as much as I’d be surprised at a normal D1 wagon having no scum. A day one pr claim hammer seems likely to draw unwanted attention and so is probably a town move overall.

[Bingle]

Cakez and Dunnstral playing scum objective based, and I'll quote the post with my Hu Tao case

I think that’s at most two scum, and even then it’s a stretch. I’m down to hear a Hu Tao case though.

[Bingle]

TBC, I’m townleaning both Dunn and cakez.

[Bingle]

However, with me living, my theory of Bingle town read pushing me then killing me didn’t pan out, though.

I don’t think this is ever a strat scum me goes for here, tbh.

[Bingle]

I could see a world where it’s Dunn plus Bingle and RCEnigma, but I do think my read on Dunn is the strongest out of the 3 by far. I don’t like how he jumped to join Kyouko’s vote on me D1 with no explanation other than sheeping and then today claim

I’m

the one sitting back trying to be quiet when I’ve made twice the posts he has.

I don’t think all votes on me are instantly scummy, but I think a lack of solid reasoning for those votes

is

(the people who were with me in my last game can recount how I townread people voting me D1 and D2 because I agreed with their points). Dunn isn’t very convincing to me because the reasons he gives are very surface-level, and I do think he’s trying to get rid of me because I’m scumreading him.

P.S. Interesting note on the triangle: I currently townread Naerys, and I think she’s townreading me as well, so it’s more of a 2v1 with Dunn than a 1v1v1, I think.

How do you feel about it being basically a dichotomy (trichotomy?) set up by someone you’re apparently scumreading?

[Bingle]

I think it makes sense in the context of having townreads on the rest of the wagon and expecting scum to be on it, but I also don't really townread the rest of the wagon individually or believe it's likely scum was excited to be on it. It makes me think RCE scum probably doesn't have partner equity with wagonmates, at the very least.

Where do you fall on the wagon containing scum?

[Bingle]

FL, I don't recall you responding to my reasoning on towncakez. Did you? If not, would you care to?

[Bingle]

Roden and I being on Gob for both of these, Roden never leaving, is pretty townie for them, imo. Like, I just don't see the purpose of going for Gob that way as scum. I won't use that defense for me, but there were much better pushes. It's confirmed to have been a lhf fade. The AnimatedWiz wagon looks bad here. It's a 'there's scum on the wagon, or Wiz is scum' kinda thing.

That's kind of exactly why I suspect Roden here. It's exactly the kind of thing that draws a lot of attention to go for, but I think no one here will think it's a stretch to say that you and me are probably the poles around which the day (and however long scum lets us survive) was going to pivot. Roden conveniently put himself in a place where he was aligned with both of us. He wasn't playing it safe, but I think he's good enough to realize we were always going to attract more attention than he was, which makes his involvement lower risk than going after the lhf gob represented would have otherwise been.

I wouldn't think Roden's gob push was scummy, except that you and I ARE in this game.

[Bingle]

TBC, I’m townleaning both Dunn and cakez.

What? How and why?

I mean... I've already answered both of those.

[Bingle]

How so Bingle?

The immediate jump at FL on entry, the suspicion of you for buddying when clearly he could lean into your support if he was genuinely trying to lim FL as scum, the pandering to me while trying to lim the person I'd already explained was someone I have a really good track record at reading, the understanding that I am objectively the strongest this game.

All of these are pretty towny.

Cakez townlean.

Dunn is also a hard to pick out ISO post, but basically I don't think scum was super likely to actually quickhammer a doc claim in a gamestate where someone had just asked for a delay on the hammer.

[Bingle]

FL, I don't recall you responding to my reasoning on towncakez. Did you? If not, would you care to?

i dont remember it

How so Bingle?

The immediate jump at FL on entry, the suspicion of you for buddying when clearly he could lean into your support if he was genuinely trying to lim FL as scum, the pandering to me while trying to lim the person I'd already explained was someone I have a really good track record at reading, the understanding that I am objectively the strongest this game.

All of these are pretty towny.

Cakez townlean.

Dunn is also a hard to pick out ISO post, but basically I don't think scum was super likely to actually quickhammer a doc claim in a gamestate where someone had just asked for a delay on the hammer.

[Bingle]

Leaf and Bingle are linked up like wired ear buds that get tangled in your pocket

They're either both scum and power wolfing or both town, and I think the latter is more likely

Someday we’ll roll S/S and probably end up losing because FL is probably the only person on site that would let me get away with the crazy gambits I always want to pull.

[Bingle]

Okay I'm done traveling home on break etc etc can we not hammer yet cuz I actually want to play today

Oh shit, cakez is back. Someone hammer!

[Bingle]

I wasn't great at explaining my line of reasoning. Really the short of it was that there was an odd trio there, with Kyouko's flip that leaves you and Wiz as T/S in my eyes. I just TR Wiz way more than you so want to push there. The rest of the game is pretty dead. I'll do a current vibe list. The groups them selves are in no particular order, just groupings of similar towniness/scumminess.

Town

Hu Tao
Wiz

Thom
Naerys

FL
Bingle
RCE
Cakez

Roden
Dunn

Scum

The Yellow tier is probably all town.

I fixed that for you. Yellow squad unite!

[Bingle]

So @Bingle - if you are town, and see that I'm town, and truly think RodenScum, it's gonna take a bit more to get me out of that pocket. I'm open to the idea. By defending Roden going forward, I should start to see where I'm wrong, if I'm wrong.

Im not actually sold on Roden scum, I just don’t think there’s much going for the townreads on him and I wanted to light a fire under his ass to see who got spooked. I’m gonna take your promise of keeping an eye on the slot at face value and say mission accomplished.

[Bingle]

I have been having an inordinately difficult time remembering to solve celeb this game and I know why and yet I still keep not putting much thought into their posts and that annoys me.

[Bingle]

So… someone on Dunn teal deer me the case on Dunn.

[Bingle]

I have someone else I want to put some pressure on, but I think I want to wait a bit for people to come in and react to the current things before I move on.

I’m open to a Dunn/Wiz town/town world.

Is it thomith? I bet it’s thomith. Hey everybody, if you vote thomith now you can accuse FL of sheeping you in the post game.

[Bingle]

You don't think that could be open wolfing?

It could be open wolfing, technically, but why would it be? Are you telling me that you think Dunn is the type of player to just lolhammer as scum? Why do you think that? What does scumDunn have to gain from that? Who is he protecting? Why does scumDunn think a doctor claim is a big enough threat to go all in on?

[Bingle]

Interesting. I thought you had a pretty solid townread on RCE and was mostly sheeping that because iirc he was one of your boonbabies or whatever you called them.

[Bingle]

I just don’t really buy Hu Tao as a top town read here.

Even by Hu Tao’s own statement, they haven’t really done much.

Well that's 3 people that seem to have me as their top town read?

But should they?

[Bingle]

I have someone else I want to put some pressure on, but I think I want to wait a bit for people to come in and react to the current things before I move on.

I’m open to a Dunn/Wiz town/town world.

Is it thomith? I bet it’s thomith. Hey everybody, if you vote thomith now you can accuse FL of sheeping you in the post game.

Did you think I should be pressured?

Yes. I have embarrassingly few reads and it feels like scum is leading town around by the nose here. Ime that means there’s scum in the “well they make sense so they’re town” pile, and you’re like… poster child for that pile.

[Bingle]

I feel like I'm not one of the main people leading the game, so why do you think I make the most sense as being scum here when there are others doing more leading than I am, if you feel scum are "leading town around by the nose"?

I feel like this is underselling your impact on the thread. And I’m not talking about leading onto lims so much as leading away from lims. My issue isn’t so much with where people HAVE been pushing as where people HAVEN’T been pushing.

I find it interesting that no one could/would make a case for Dunn scum when asked and I’ll probably dig there tonight.

[Bingle]

If Celeb is scum then I don't really have a problem with him randomly asking to be voted out and people deciding that he should be voted out

We have over 6 days left and Cele whimpers something about panic wagoning. Kindly stop trying to make ppl panic, when there is plenty of time left and we have solid targets of suspiction. It feels kinda scummy

Who's panicking?

These posts give me the impression you’re not really reading.

[Bingle]

the fact that the Celebloki is Thomith, FL, Naerys, and Dunnstral wagon starts to pick up steam again is a really good sign of CeleblokiScum.

I don’t hate it.

VOTE: celebloki

[Bingle]

Neither do I. As I said, I have embarrassingly few reads. Gth roden and celeb both fit the mold of people who should be scrutinized but aren’t (weren’t?) getting much attention. And from an outside perspective I probably should be dropped in that stack too.

[Bingle]

Why is anyone voting for me?

FTFY

[Bingle]

Maybe FL, Dunn, Roden is a good solve. Bingle or RC could be in there swapping one of the others out. There's definitely scum somewhere in those 5. Probably 2.

I’m gonna laugh post game if you named half the playerlist and hit 0 scum.

[Bingle]

I’ve read up, but I’m working from 7 AM til midnight tomorrow and I don’t particularly want to effort atm, so you get to wait until the weekend.

Unironically, FL, we let the night phase sort Celebloki.

VOTE: Hu Tao

I’ll sheep you here though.

[Bingle]

No, in any normal queue it should be "Your action failed, and you did not receive a result"... is what the Neapolitan and Roleblocker pages say under "Normal version". Confusion stems from it also saying the role is allowed in simple normal games, but the rules are meant to be for all normal games where they are allowed.

No result and your action failed are identical in the context of a normal game where the role should always get a result (as opposed to a vig or something else who don’t get told shit).

If there is a fault here, it’s with the nrg for not clarifying that a results pm needs to explicitly state blocking in the review.

There are precisely 0 worlds in which celeb is a scum neap, this is a simple game. Red herrings and implicative false innos don’t have a space in a simple game, that would inherently raise the complexity of the setup. I’m not particularly sold on this being a true claim, but if you believe the role you should believe the alignment.

[Bingle]

Celebloki should be leashed too, Naerys seems like a good slot.

Nah. Leashing here has too many chances to out prs, and potentially tells the scum if they need to kill/block townceleb or not. If we leash celeb to town, scum can either kill celebs target, block celeb again, or even just use celeb as a glorified scum vanilla cop if celeb is town targeting someone scum isn’t worried about. If celeb is scum, it removes all the information we can get from who celeb tries to fake an inno or guilty on.

If we leash it’s to you and you’re already obvtown.

[Bingle]

fade Hu Tao, if town, Celeb should target me. If scum, which is more likely, target literally anyone else probably.

Get out of my head (and into my car).

[Bingle]

Why do people think Celeb will be able to prove his role tonight? He already claimed that he was blocked last night.

I don’t expect he’ll be able to prove his role, I expect, if town, that he’ll be a roleblock that doesn’t get used on our other power roles. Also, even a “I was roleblocked but targeted X” is a thing that potentially gets us information after he flips.

[Bingle]

I'm willing to vote outside Roden, Cele, RCE, Thom today. So basically anyone else

There's a pretty sexy Hu Tao wagon you can join.

[Bingle]

Can we do Hu Tao or RCE instead?

The thing with Hu Tao is you have to cut off the limbs before you get the hydra.

I agree with you, Hu Tao is scum, I’ve given a multitude of reasons that nobody has tried to dispute, because frankly, it’s a damn good case. Even if ends up being wrong, a good case.

I really don’t think we are, but Celeb is a Hu Tao partner.

That's enough effort for me not to want to vote you today Dunn.

How would everyone feel about a Naerys vote?

This is also absolutely so political.

Dunnstral defends Celebloki and they conditionally responsed by Hu Tao. Dunn is getting rewarded to help empower Dunn’s spot and reads in the game because it protects Celebloki.

And then they find a compromise wagon in Naerys where did Naerys flips town, it can be brushed off as an “oh well, now we know”, but it TAKES pressure off of Celebloki.

Naerys was poking at Celebloki earlier.


Hu Tao is playing a super heavy political game.

did i ruin your planned gambit

And I’m pretty sure i have said that exact thing to you as town before

And you actively do fake guilties as scum

If there are the people for it, I will happily fade Hu Tao, Cakez.

And do you also notice how there were players who scum read me, like Sir Cakez and Dunn, who have moved away from that, while Hu Tao tries to do everything to try and flip their read?

But Hu Tao isn’t actively giving reasons for anything. They just state and conditionally response.

Wiz, what do you make of this?

[Bingle]

Why do people think Celeb will be able to prove his role tonight? He already claimed that he was blocked last night.

I don’t expect he’ll be able to prove his role, I expect, if town, that he’ll be a roleblock that doesn’t get used on our other power roles. Also, even a “I was roleblocked but targeted X” is a thing that potentially gets us information after he flips.

TBC, my reasoning here is thus:

Celeb soaks a roleblock that scum could use on someone else if town. If Celeb is scum, he's hard guiltied by ANYONE else claiming to be roleblocked while he has no action, which is a thing we can look at as we get closer to limlo. If we flip a scumblocker, suddenly it's incredibly likely Celeb is town.

If Celeb is scum, it's not worth it for a blocked player to out to CC right now because that gives scum knowledge about whether they targeted well and narrows their nk choices a lot. He's also pretty well backed into a corner wrt needing to contribute and make NA choices that actually make sense. And if he is scum, it's

very likely that he's a scum VC or similar that got targeted by a town blocker

here, which means there's extra eggshells to walk on to prevent showing scum who they need to be worried about. ScumCeleb 100% would attempt to out "I was blocked" in the hopes that a town JK or RB would out to corroborate, saving him and also signing their own death warrant.

teal deer, Celeb isn't a good fade for today, even if he does look sketch as fuck, because he probably gets solved before limlo regardless and this is the part of the game where we lim people we're unsure of to make the game winnable long term.

[Bingle]

Hm, I appreciate you explaining how he would be solved before LimLo, because that was a question I forgot to ask earlier—didn’t understand that you meant a Roleblocker flipping would help confirm him.

I… am loathe to wait on a possible flip though, because what if we never get that? What if the Roleblocker survives to LimLo, or we just don’t have one at all? Do we assume he’s lying, or do we give him the benefit of the doubt? I would rather just eliminate him now instead of possibly miselimming someone else instead.

I mean... if the slot isn't resolved by massclaim day (traditionally limlo-1) it should resolve itself based on balance and if it doesn't we have the opportunity to solve it there.

[Bingle]

If they're scummy, fade them.

It was the 'it's pretty clear eliminating Celebloki is the wrong play' line that did it for me.

No, it really isn't. It's not a 'wrong play'. it's a fade on a slot a lot of people scum read. day play over mech.

Counterargument: Bingle exists.

[Bingle]

I’m also just not a fan of compromise wagons, and this feels like a big ol one

What compromise? We're killing Hu.

[Bingle]

I’m the Town Role Cop, and Hu Tao is a vanilla role. Part of the reason I’m pushing Celebloki is due to doubt about there being two Town investigative roles—does that explain my push on them better?

Not in the slightest considering that they're actually very complimentary roles. If anything, your claim makes me more inclined to believe celeb is town.

Did you perchance read this:

There are precisely 0 worlds in which celeb is a scum neap, this is a simple game. Red herrings and implicative false innos don’t have a space in a simple game, that would inherently raise the complexity of the setup. I’m not particularly sold on this being a true claim, but if you believe the role you should believe the alignment.

[Bingle]

What's to think? AniWiz just claimed a role that can get a functional inno on a role that can get an actual inno on FL. If we leave all three alive into the night, we get a buttload of info from who mafia kills, whether anyone gets blocked, and the actual elimination from today.

Meanwhile, none of Hu Tao's scumpoints have disappeared and she's apparently vanilla checked, which is a verification point towards Wiz's role at the very least, even if Hu is somehow town here.

2+2 isn't particularly hard math.

[Bingle]

Innocent Child

[Bingle]

Obviously it doesn't necessarily confirm Town/Scum, but if he is lying about his role, it at least pretty much confirms a scum. I think the information from it either way does give us some confirmed information we can potentially use, rather than rolecopping somebody else.

It kinda does though.

You are playing a Simple Normal game. These games are designed to provide a newbie-friendly and traditional mafia experience, with little focus on setup speculation.

If there is a scum neap who exists specifically to be a pseudo inno for a town RC, that's 100% a "focus on setup spec" element. Which is specifically not a thing in this game type. Thus, by utilizing setup spec well, we can see that Neap is basically an innocent for a rolecop.

Also, town role cop is no where near as strong as tracker the vast majority of the time.

[Bingle]

I also feel like Bingle's posts following the Neap claim (specifically 1337 1345 1359) seem to be looking like they are saying a lot, without really saying much.

They, uh... Don't say much. They say: It's a bad idea to eliminate celebloki today. I'm interested in what you mean when you say that they look like they're saying a lot, though.

[Bingle]

VOTE: bingle

Why bingle? could you elaborate on this please

I'm voting her, so she scumreads me. It's literally what FL called her out on. She's using her reads as a weapon to dissuade people from pushing her instead of having any actual desire to sort and understand plays because she doesn't want to sort, she wants to live.

[Bingle]

Bingle comes in every time I’m doubting.

Bingle comes in every time he's available on site. It's not like it's hard to verify that my surges of activity are sitewide things, I use all of two accounts and they're both public. I'm gonna get really fucking annoyed if this becomes a thing in every game I play.

I was literally just eliminated as town off of a shitpush based on "Well, Bingle is only here sometimes" despite the fact that I was clearly one of the most town players in that game off of the back of this same logic. I have a job that doesn't let me post all day. I travel at least once every two weeks. I woke up at three AM on Friday, worked a full 12 hour shift, and due to flight cancellations (3752 Friday night American Airlines if you want to do the legwork to verify it) shitty travel agencies, and a car rental I didn't get home until 5 AM Saturday, sans bags.

If you're going to paranoia read me, at least call a spade a spade.

[Bingle]

I also feel like Bingle's posts following the Neap claim (specifically 1337 1345 1359) seem to be looking like they are saying a lot, without really saying much.

They, uh... Don't say much. They say: It's a bad idea to eliminate celebloki today. I'm interested in what you mean when you say that they look like they're saying a lot, though.

1345 I don't see the point for, which is what pinged me originally.
Most of the other posts mentioned are very setup-spec related, which usually tends to ping me, simply because it seems like an easy way to be viewed as making points that make sense, and look like you're solving, where nothing being said usually helps lead to a solve.

Hi. I'm Jingle, one of the premier setup designers on site. I do that. Constantly. Ask literally anyone who has met me. 1345 was a tongue in cheek agreement with Dunn that a rolecop fishing for a magical role that might or might not be a hard guilty over a role that has claimed is not a great plan, even if I do believe that Wiz is town here.

[Bingle]

As far as setup spec not leading to a solve, take a look at my sig and try again.

[Bingle]

Why do we need multiple investigatives?

[Bingle]

FWIW, I don't think Naerys being weird around me is all that suspicious here. She was in that game, pushed me hard for shit reasons, and then was in the dead thread when I got admittedly a little more salty than was at all reasonable. I don't remember her doing much there before I pushed her, and her response to that was an incredibly awkward OMGUS and then getting chainsaw defended by dragon.

[Bingle]

I unvoted Dunn because people were stating they were worried about the day moving too fast.

Oh, right, thanks for reminding me that that wagon was sketch as hell. I meant to look into that.

[Bingle]

Does anybody wanna claim vanilla

Sure. I'm vanilla, and potentially the best clear for the gamestate, because it has the double whammy of basically clearing you.

[Bingle]

Does anybody wanna claim vanilla

What's the point of this post?

Copying it into Word tells me it's Open Sans 14.5 point. You're welcome.

[Bingle]

Dunnstral (4): Hu Tao, Celebloki, AnimatedWiz, Roden

Honorable mention Thomith and Flavor.

Spoiler: Hu Tao

How so Bingle?

The immediate jump at FL on entry, the suspicion of you for buddying when clearly he could lean into your support if he was genuinely trying to lim FL as scum, the pandering to me while trying to lim the person I'd already explained was someone I have a really good track record at reading, the understanding that I am objectively the strongest this game.

All of these are pretty towny.

Cakez townlean.

Dunn is also a hard to pick out ISO post, but basically I don't think scum was super likely to actually quickhammer a doc claim in a gamestate where someone had just asked for a delay on the hammer.

You don't think that could be open wolfing?

I'm okay with voting there VOTE: Dunn

I had meant to follow up on this (for the life of me, I thought I had) but I really don't like that Hu votes here with the sole reasoning of "Maybe Dunn openwolfing". Like, the thought process is so surface level it wouldn't get it's feet wet. I don't think Hu really suspects Dunn scum would qh there, and she also doesn't really make an attempt to read me when I forget to follow through. Like, if she was actually solving, why is there no desire to get that question answered? It just seems like a throwaway question she doesn't really care about getting answered as a way to dismiss my towncase.

Spoiler: Celeb

As best I can tell, celeb was voting Dunn for hammering gob and NK spec. Absolutely nothing compelling to me, but I can see the vote on the basis of not having other scumreads, given the readslist.

Spoiler: Wiz

VOTE: Dunnstral.

I’m not a fan of how everyone backed off this slot, even if I do understand the desire to not shorten D2 into a sprint.

At least this has some reasoning behind it. Voting Dunn because there is unexplained reluctance to a Dunn wagon is a thought process I could get behind, but honestly the resistance to a Dunn wagon is pretty explained fmpov, being the source of the resistance and having explained it.

Spoiler: Roden

I think Dunn is the type of player to favor responding to quote pings as scum vs posting individual thoughts that aren't meant for anyone in particular. His activity is a little low, but he's had a mix of responding to people while also doing his own thing. He's also posting plenty of thoughts and why he scum reads certain slots, so I'm not super sold on scum!Dunn.

I'll go over my hammer again... I didn't believe the doctor claim. Leaving gob alive gives other players a chance to unvote gob, which reveals them as not doctor to mafia. Hammering gob also makes mafia think I could be a pr like doctor due to my hammer.

solid rehearsed reasoning.

UNVOTE: Dunnstral

either way, im okay with going over other options for sure.

I like this unvote.

VOTE: Dunn

This progression is gross AF. Not to mention that Roden's sole additions to the thread around this time are scummy ass pop-ins like "If celeb is scum it's okay that celeb is self advocating a lim." Like, I legitimately have no idea how anyone is townreading Roden here.

Spoiler: Thomith

Tho has the most developed scumread of Dunn, despite being offwagon. That scumread is:

Dunn is pinging me because of how he questioned Hu Tao's lack of a vote, but not gobs, and also not voting himself, but again that's a small thing.

Yes. A page 5 read is the most deeply reasoned bit of this wagon that got more than 50% of the living players on board. And I do think it's fairly sus that Thomith was off wagon AND didn't have any suspicions stronger than "Well, he only pushed one non voter in RVS."

Spoiler: FL

Dunnstral hammering the way they did looks like scum locking in the hammer before people would get PR scared.

This is probably the lowest hanging fruit read of all time, but that's actually a hallmark of FL's towngame. He can, and does, push fucking anything. The reason we work well together is because I'm good at recognizing when his pushes are dumb af and getting him to see it too. I think FL backing off of this is a very strong indication of this being his town game, even without my other, less public means of reading FL, but also that it 100% means that scum jumped feetfirst into this pool.

tldr, this is almost certainly a scum driven wagon, and there's not a whole lot of doubt in my mind who the scum candidates on it are.

[Bingle]

It took me way to long to understand the joke here

Speaking of jokes...

I was wondering, do you think when Covid hit Indian restaurants had to worry about a potential bread shortage? Or was it more of a naan issue?

[Bingle]

Yes.

[Bingle]

Not all three, but 1-2 for sure.

[Bingle]

I mean, yeah, Dunn towned it up after the wagon, but that's pretty irrelevant to the wagon being shit. The point isn't that Dunn is towny now, but that a giant willingness to lim him on the back of

nothing

was there in the first place.

[Bingle]

Let's vote out bingle

^My point exactly.

[Bingle]

Also the irony in you saying I have scummy ass pop ins when you just wrote an award winning monolog about why it's unfair for you to be scum read for having scummy ass pop ins

There's a big difference between this being scummy:

Would it spook you if I voted RC?

If Celeb is scum then I don't really have a problem with him randomly asking to be voted out and people deciding that he should be voted out

And voting me on the back of not constantly being in thread producing content. If the argument about me was that when I was here I was doing scummy things that would be different, but Leaf was saying it's sketch that I'm only here some of the time and that my absence was what was scummy.

[Bingle]

If, as you say, we are two different players doing two different things then would you care to explain the irony?

[Bingle]

Unfortunately, Bingle. You've committed the unforgivable crime of trying to eliminate me when I'm town. Punishment is eliminating you.

Unfortunately, Hu Tao, you're not town.

[Bingle]

I still have a desire to give Hu Tao a TR, after my claim and her hard defending me I was curious where that came from. When Dunn made his argument about how roleblockers and JKs work, I started to wonder if Hu Tao's hard defense might mean she was a JK and had maybe targeted me so she understood my 'no result'. With Wiz's claim this is obviously not a thing. I had decided before Wiz's claim that I still didn't support a lim on her because I wasn't sure if she might be a town JK. But the vanilla claim makes me not as reluctant to that.

What do you make of this now, Celeb? My take is that if hu tao is vanilla and spewed that you were actually rb'd that makes it a scumslip.

[Bingle]

Yes. He claimed he was roleblocked. And you immediately accepted that as truth.

But more importantly, I'm trying to figure out celeb's thought processes when he's been gone for a while.

[Bingle]

So basically you don’t actually think she had more information, but we’re hesitant to eliminate her in case she did have extra information?

Do you think you were a likely target for a town jk? Why?

[Bingle]

If I remember correctly, both me and Naerys also said we believed the claim?

I think I was also telegraphing belief in the claim at that point, but I'm kind of leaning celeb town based on the reaction. I think celeb scum jumps onto the scumslip reason to bus Hu Tao, and I think celeb scum definitely jumps onto the scumslip reason to vote Hu Tao Town. This means less if Hu Tao has a tentpole role, but I can burn that bridge when I reach it.

[Bingle]

The mental gymnastics needed to vote me here is impressive

What mental gymnastics? There's a clear case.

[Bingle]

How can Hu Tao have a tent pole role when Wiz confirmed that they're Vanilla?

Well the short answer is that I wasn’t thinking about the vt result when considering Hu Tao/celeb associations.

The long answer is that the vt result on Hu Tao is completely irrelevant to my scumread of Hu Tao, and so I’m left, yet again, with the question of “what mental gymnastics?” At best you could say it’s mental gymnastics to townread celeb.

[Bingle]

what is a 'tentpole role'?

Tentpole is a game design term for something that allows the rest of your strategy to work. It's a generally undesirable thing in mafia game design, but something like an ungated strongman in a room full of protectives or a town player who is told the identity of the scumteam but causes a scumwin if they die would be a tentpole piece, because if you remove it, the team, or tent, just kind of collapses inward. I don't think the existence of such a role is likely regardless of the additional unlikeliness of Hu Tao specifically being a tentpole scum role in a team of Wiz/Hu Tao/Celeb.

[Bingle]

It does when part of his reason for scumreading me is that I'm scum pr

Literally not a thing.

[Bingle]

It means they didn't roadblock Celeb, like he was suggesting.

What?

I was suggesting that the only way Hu Tao could've known that a roleblock happened as a vanilla would be a partner being responsible for it, and wondering why celebloki seemed to be townreading Hu Tao based on what would nominally be a guilty result. Celeb clarified the belief was only pre VC result, but I'm still interested in his actual conclusions there, particularly because I don't think it's likely for them to be paired.

[Bingle]

If you, as vanilla, knew that Celeb was rb'd, you could only have gotten that information from a scum PT.

[Bingle]

I don't know why I'm responding to what is clearly an attempt to generate noise. Hu Tao is scum because of the whole not actually solving or being interested in helping town thing and using her reads as a weapon to disincentivize voting her instead of looking for scum. The roleblocking stuff is all about reading celebloki. That's... not really hard to piece together if you take even a minute to read my posts.

[Bingle]

Because you could be wrong. Even if you’re like 90% sure they’re 10, there’s still that small percentage you could be wrong.

Bingle is technically correct in their argument, and if they are scum doing it, it gave them an opening to look correct in the back and forth with you

That’s not even an argument I’m making, though. It’s a thing celeb posted that I’m digging into. Hu Tao is trying to derail off of the actual reasons she’s scum with this whole thing that’s completely irrelevant to the scum case on her.

It’s the mafia equivalent of saying “I didn’t stab that guy, I don’t even know how to fly a helicopter!”

[Bingle]

Yes, and I was trying to find out if he'd put any further thought into that/what he decided.

[Bingle]

I still think of the posters, bingle is the one pushing me the most.

FTFY

[Bingle]

I think Dunn has moved out of being scummy for me. Wiz gets a pass for the same reason I hope I'd get a pass for the day. I TR Thom and FL.

If Hu Tao is town, why exactly is it so hard to get this wagon through despite there being no actual reason to townread her. Like, even Naerys here is townreading her because "Bingle was wrong last game, so he's probably just wrong again" as best I can tell. There's no town case there, and yet no one is willing to put there votes down with only 48 hours in the day.

[Bingle]

Actually, can we get a prod on RCE? He hasn't even been in thread for two days.

[Bingle]

I think Dunn has moved out of being scummy for me. Wiz gets a pass for the same reason I hope I'd get a pass for the day. I TR Thom and FL.

If Hu Tao is town, why exactly is it so hard to get this wagon through despite there being no actual reason to townread her. Like, even Naerys here is townreading her because "Bingle was wrong last game, so he's probably just wrong again" as best I can tell. There's no town case there, and yet no one is willing to put there votes down with only 48 hours in the day.

Scum wagons aren't always hard. That's just nonsense.

It's really cool how you respond consistently to things I don't say. I didn't say "Scum wagons are always hard" I said, "There's no reason that this wagon would be hard if it wasn't on scum." You've done nothing towny, and yet no one is willing to vote you. That's not a towntell.

[Bingle]

Actually, can we get a prod on RCE? He hasn't even been in thread for two days.

dragon prodded him like hour or two ago

I saw the celeb prod, but the bright green is hard to read on maf silver

[Bingle]

Actually, can we get a prod on RCE? He hasn't even been in thread for two days.

dragon prodded him like hour or two ago

I saw the celeb prod, but the bright green is hard to read on maf silver

My apologies. Is this better?

It is. Thanks!

[Bingle]

Bingle
Flavor Leaf
Dunnstral
SirCakez
Celebloki
AnimatedWiz
Thomith


Naerys
RCEnigma
Roden
Hu Tao

Readslist.

[Bingle]

Flipping Hu Tao or Bingle makes no sense if we're against flipping Celeb today, because their alignments are tied to Celeb and Wiz and may become more clear once/if they act tonight

How is Hu Tao being scummy as shit tied to Celeb/Wiz at all?

[Bingle]

I suggested myself as the optimal target for celeb, actually, because I'm confident on my leaf read and I wouldn't mind being conftowned. I absolutely wouldn't care if celeb targeted neither of us after we're made obvtown when hu tao flips scum though, and getting that lim through is vastly more important.

[Bingle]

Because if we were to vote based off of play and not mech then Hu Tao would still always be the elim today.

[Bingle]

Why do you town read her?

[Bingle]

I think Dunn has moved out of being scummy for me. Wiz gets a pass for the same reason I hope I'd get a pass for the day. I TR Thom and FL.

If Hu Tao is town, why exactly is it so hard to get this wagon through despite there being no actual reason to townread her. Like, even Naerys here is townreading her because "Bingle was wrong last game, so he's probably just wrong again" as best I can tell. There's no town case there, and yet no one is willing to put there votes down with only 48 hours in the day.

Scum wagons aren't always hard. That's just nonsense.

It's really cool how you respond consistently to things I don't say. I didn't say "Scum wagons are always hard" I said, "There's no reason that this wagon would be hard if it wasn't on scum." You've done nothing towny, and yet no one is willing to vote you. That's not a towntell.

Ok. Let's try something different. If I was cleared right now as town. Who is scum and why

Bingle
Flavor Leaf
Dunnstral
SirCakez
Celebloki
AnimatedWiz
Thomith


Naerys
RCEnigma
Roden
Hu Tao

Readslist.

I'm sorry, were you lying?

[Bingle]

Your narrative is that I've decided to burn all of my towncred to kill a vanilla town on D2 as scum while simultaneously making nuanced reads on the majority of the playerlist because... You're scary? That requires me to think you have any skill at mafia.

I've talked about all of my reads. They're not dependent on me being right on you. I'm not going to rehash them because that's a great way to not get an elimination with 2 days left until deadline. But keep flailing about for a reason to suspect me when it very clearly is "Bingle has caught me."

[Bingle]

And I think there were multiple paths of least resistance she could've taken today and she instead chose to be a prominent figure.

You mean the path of least resistance that was the Dunn wagon that I fought down? Y'know, the one she sheeped onto?

[Bingle]

There's also this. This imo spews a townie mindset, because scum knows town can't get an inno result on them and can't interpret somebody's posts as softing a secret inno result.

I agree that either she's lying about someone softing an inno on her or town. I just don't see why vague "oh someone might have an inno on me" posts is a thing scum wouldn't lie about.

[Bingle]

It means I'm vanilla townie or mafia goon. If anything I think there is at most 2 goons. So if we get rid of 2 goons I'm pretty much a pseudo clear

Like, that's the same as this. It's a baseless "Well there's no way there's three goons so we shouldn't vote me" claim that has no real reason to be taken seriously. How does vt Hu know enough about the setup at this point to make this assertion? Why does vt Hu Tao think we're going to lim 2 goons quickly?

[Bingle]

And I think there were multiple paths of least resistance she could've taken today and she instead chose to be a prominent figure.

You mean the path of least resistance that was the Dunn wagon that I fought down? Y'know, the one she sheeped onto?

This is not a good "gotcha" because multiple people went onto that wagon

What do you mean it's not a good "gotcha"? It's not a gotcha at all. It's literally her doing the opposite of the thing you say you're town reading her for.

[Bingle]

Because I disagree.

You disagree that the dunn wagon was the path of least resistance?

[Bingle]

Bingle have we played together before?

Not to the best of my knowledge, but I've seen your play as an informed spectator (Booneytoonz) and am not particularly impressed.

[Bingle]

You just said you don't think she's good at playing scum

I didn't specify that she's bad at scum. I believe she's too self oriented to be good at the game in general. That has nothing to do with complex strategies, just personality.

[Bingle]

Okay that's fair. That is the game I replaced in I think? And I was scum there?

I was actually thinking the Jester game, but yeah, I was in that one as a player.

Played from the start as town in a vote for town setup. Best bet would be to assume I'm aware of you by reputation, but not much else.

[Bingle]

This is so shit, why am I suddenly the wagon here? What is the info obtained from flipping me here? Literally nothing. It was already agreed by like multiple people that we need to get rid of Hu Tao, Bingle or one of the PR claims to actually work on solving this game.
This feels so scum driven

flavor

VC 2.09

Votecount 2.09

SirCakez (3): Roden, Hu Tao, Flavor Leaf, Thomith, Wiz
Hu Tao (1): Bingle
Naerys (1): Celebloki
RCEnigma (1): Naerys

Not voting (4): RCEnigma, Dunnstral, SirCakez

It takes 6 votes to eliminate someone.

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-12-30 00:59:40)

.

Combined mod ISO: here.

Agreed. This does not feel like a town wagon.

[Bingle]

Town wagon in the sense of "being composed of mostly town" not in the sense of "Wagon on town".

[Bingle]

tbc, I'm setting a timer to hammer in 8 hours, but I'm kind of hoping we get a deadline extension via one of the prodded players needing replacement so we can actually get a decent flip out of today.

[Bingle]

Oh, wait, celeb already showed back up, it's just RCE.

I'm not advocating for someone to intentionally replace out to influence the game. That would be suckish in the extreme (and incidentally against site rules). I just feel like it's likely that a replacement is pending and want to take advantage if one is.

[Bingle]

Bloop

Do we 'Bloop' here?

Bloop

If this is my legacy I can die happy

Clearly all of my work to pocket elements for when she inevitably replaced in is paying off.

[Bingle]

Now to lay the groundwork for an enchant pocket.

Enchant clearly has the most sheepable reads itt.

[Bingle]

I mean bloop.

[Bingle]

I would like to hear from Bingle since I changed my read on him.

I really do think the last minute scramble off of the two of us seems scum motivated. My gut says you don’t want me to flip because it’s going to make it hard for you to live through tomorrow, but that doesn’t make a ton of sense with one of us presumably being cleared tonight.

I do need to look at the old cakez wagon reasonings because I can’t remember what they were, but I do still think the way cakez came into the game to being a huge topic of discussion and immediately started picking apart why was +town.

[Bingle]

flavor

VC 2.06

VC 2.06

AnimatedWiz (4): Dunnstral, Hu Tao, SirCakez, Roden
Celebloki (2): Flavor Leaf, AnimatedWiz
Hu Tao (1): Bingle
Naerys (1): Celebloki
RCEnigma (1): Naerys

Not voting (2): RCEnigma, Thomith

It takes 6 votes to eliminate someone.

Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-28 00:59:40).

Combined mod ISO: here.

flavor

VC 2.07

VC 2.07

SirCakez (4): Roden, Flavor Leaf, Hu Tao, Thomith
Celebloki (1): AnimatedWiz
Hu Tao (1): Bingle
Naerys (1): Celebloki
RCEnigma (1): Naerys

Not voting (3): RCEnigma, Dunnstral, SirCakez

It takes 6 votes to eliminate someone.

Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-30 00:59:40).

Combined mod ISO: here.

Note: deadline has been prolonged by two days

Right, so cakez seems to be a response to the wiz wagon falling apart with the claim. I’m noticing a pattern of names that have tended to vote together, so I should probably make a vote timeline spreadsheet while I’m still on vacation.

VOTE: Cakez

VOTE: Cakez

I'm still fine with cakes

VOTE: Cakez

Of the options mentioned I'm most okay with this for now.

VOTE: SirCakez

That should be E-2

Yeah… this doesn’t have a lot of “reasoning that was made clear last time. If anything it’s a bunch of people talking about how I’m vaguely scummy and then inexplicably voting cakez.

If I’m wrong on Hu Tao, I feel pretty strongly that VOTE: roden is the bad actor here.

[Bingle]

I’ll write up a case in a couple of hours, but roden just doesn’t seem to be arguing in good faith at all, and his actions don’t really match his stated beliefs.

[Bingle]

Wagon starting Roden is generally a town Roden

Wdym by this, because I don't really see the roden wagon as roden being proactive. It just seems like other people don't have anywhere to go and are sheeping a case that wasn't even half assed to begin with.

[Bingle]

someone ask me something
I need direction

I mean... I think a good start would be to look at the Hu Tao/Bingle interactions for the last like 3 weeks. I think Hu is scum pretty strongly, but I also seem to be alone there. Weighing in on that whole progression is probably the best way to jump into the meat of things.

[Bingle]

If Roden and I were scum together, there’d have been a fade already.

I mean... I doubt it? I've been the biggest roadblock to your mutual pushes, and I don't suddenly become less so a roadblock if you're scum. Still town FL energy here though.

[Bingle]

I’ve read up, but I’m working from 7 AM til midnight tomorrow and I don’t particularly want to effort atm, so you get to wait until the weekend.

Unironically, FL, we let the night phase sort Celebloki.

VOTE: Hu Tao

I’ll sheep you here though.

This is probably where you'd want to start.

[Bingle]

Both Cakez wagons, my wagon, and I thought you were on the dunn wagon as well. Also known as all of the pushes I've stood against today.

[Bingle]

When Roden is scum, those arguments are not there

Who, other than me, has even voiced suspicion of Roden?

[Bingle]

Wagon starting Roden is generally a town Roden

Leaf, this is a bizarre take. Roden has started literally one wagon and has been voting on established wagons exclusively other than that. Like... He followed me onto gob and then stayed there all of D1. He pushed Dunn AFTER calling dunn town and my defense there, with nothing in the interim really explaining why he went from the soft defense of

I think Dunn is the type of player to favor responding to quote pings as scum vs posting individual thoughts that aren't meant for anyone in particular. His activity is a little low, but he's had a mix of responding to people while also doing his own thing. He's also posting plenty of thoughts and why he scum reads certain slots, so I'm not super sold on scum!Dunn.

I'll go over my hammer again... I didn't believe the doctor claim. Leaving gob alive gives other players a chance to unvote gob, which reveals them as not doctor to mafia. Hammering gob also makes mafia think I could be a pr like doctor due to my hammer.

solid rehearsed reasoning.

UNVOTE: Dunnstral

either way, im okay with going over other options for sure.

I like this unvote.

to

VOTE: Dunn

especially in the middle of roden softly agreeing that Celeb was sketch for being willing to be wagoned. Then he spent like 5 posts justifying a celeb scumread to himself before putting celeb at E-1 and immediately unvoting when it was noted that was E-1.

[Bingle]

When Roden is scum, those arguments are not there

Who, other than me, has even voiced suspicion of Roden?

You’re bringing it up a day before deadline.

You keep presenting this game as “Bingle needs to protect it from Flavor”

But I’m also here protecting the game from a possible ScumBingle here, when there is a much larger scum case to be made on you rather than Roden, imo.

And, if what you say is true, that you’re the only one suspicious of Roden,

Why go for Roden in that sense?

You do realize that I'm hard townreading you and every time we're tvt I heavily encourage you wildly swinging back and forth while pointing out when I think you're wrong, right?

And I'm posting my suspicions of roden because I'm suspicious of roden. I was holding off on it because I didn't want to drag attention away from the Hu Tao elimination.

[Bingle]

It’s 16 hours until deadline, that’s a panic wagon fade possibility, and i see that from a mile away.

Nah, it's a 'maybe I die here, I should probably try to head off the poorly reasoned townlock' thing, but you do you.

[Bingle]

I have not swung on Roden once this game while considering all options, generally always, so i feel the “wildly swinging back and forth” is overexerted.

Wildly swinging is a you thing, not a this game thing. It's how our dynamic usually works, which you well know.

[Bingle]

It’s 16 hours until deadline, that’s a panic wagon fade possibility, and i see that from a mile away.

Nah, it's a 'maybe I die here, I should probably try to head off the poorly reasoned townlock' thing, but you do you.

In what world are you dying here over Cakez?

In a world where I'm a likely cop target and leaving the claimed cops alive to cause confusion is probable, I'm not an unreasonable nk. Especially if scum does actually have a rb.

[Bingle]

I wouldn’t call it wild. It’s very controlled.

?

Your biggest asset is that it's incredibly hard for scum to predict when you might turn around and start blasting them. Sure, you have internal reasons, but the visible thread presence is wild swinging from one push to another.

[Bingle]

Celeb is already on me, and Wiz on Celeb?

You think we have another cop?

Celeb is on one of {you, me, Hu Tao} assuming Cakez lim, and honestly I think you're the least likely of those. But yeah, actually I think we do have another investigative role and something weak as a protective.

[Bingle]

Like... rolecop/neap is very weak town investigation and if scum has a blocker that's just painfully low power.

If neap is scum, we necessarily have another invest.

If blocker is town, we have the blocker as another invest.

Basically, town is confirmed to have another invest role.

[Bingle]

I'm guessing one of the town Invest claims is scum and the other one is town + a jail keeper/role locker, versus a scum investigative + goons makes sense

Sure, but the takeaway here is that if my take on the game is accurate and scum hasn't seen what I've seen, me dying isn't actually unlikely.

[Bingle]

Bingle, you defended Celebloki way too much to think that could be a scum Neap

I don't think that Celebloki is a scum Neap. I think that it's reasonable for someone to think that one of Celeb and Wiz is scum, which is a whole other kettle of fish.

[Bingle]

Like... rolecop/neap is very weak town investigation and if scum has a blocker that's just painfully low power.

If neap is scum, we necessarily have another invest.

If blocker is town, we have the blocker as another invest.

Basically, town is confirmed to have another invest role.

[Bingle]

I think something like Neap/RC/BG/Roleblocker vs Goon/PR/PR is reasonable, especially if the PRs aren't outright guilties.

I think RC as scum with a stronger investigation (ungated tracker level) and the block source as town is reasonable.

I think Neap as scum fakeclaiming (probably a vanilla cop) and no blocker is reasonable.

I have strong thoughts about what the actual world we live in is, PR wise, but I think it's a bad idea to share them prior to night phase because it might help inform the kill, which I DON'T want.