Mini Normal 2329: complex. [game over!]

[Hu Tao]

Hi.

[Hu Tao]

I wonder what kind of heat Scum's packing this game.

I'm surprised there's an IC in this game, so Scum is probably packing heat?

VOTE: KeyLaga

Afrayed Knott

Random Nurse

,

Mafia Goon

, executed Day 3

VOTE: Random Nurse

Cook him, bestie!

VOTE: Random Nurse

[Hu Tao]

I wonder what kind of heat Scum's packing this game.

I'm surprised there's an IC in this game, so Scum is probably packing heat?

VOTE: KeyLaga

Afrayed Knott

Random Nurse

,

Mafia Goon

, executed Day 3

VOTE: Random Nurse

VOTE: random nurse

Dann cooking cookin

COOKED!

[Hu Tao]

Okey no lets
VOTE: Hu tao

Don't want to vote your partner?

[Hu Tao]

announcement

ding ding ding! as you were going about minding your own business, you see Datisi pull out a megaphone:

Random Nurse

is mod-confirmed to be aligned with the

town

!"

Awkward...

[Hu Tao]

Why would I be scum. He made that same post as scum

[Hu Tao]

It was a good vote imo. No regrets there and would do it again

[Hu Tao]

Good morning fellow townies! This game looks really complex to me.

Okay well. This post was the 2nd post I didn't like. Seems like new scum. I feel the nervousness in this post. Trying to blend in

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: NotAScum

I think this is my preferred vote.

I also think I'm more weary of scum being off that wagon. Scum knew RN was town so they probably soft defended to gain townie points

[Hu Tao]

It was a good vote imo. No regrets there and would do it again

I agree

You agree but vote me? Sus

[Hu Tao]

I also think I'm more weary of scum being off that wagon. Scum knew RN was town so they probably soft defended to gain townie points

there were only like 2 slots that defended random nurse, why are you voting notascum as opposed to looking at them

Because I'm pretty sure he's scum. Where as I would need to look at people and decide which might be scum.

[Hu Tao]

I also think I'm more weary of scum being off that wagon. Scum knew RN was town so they probably soft defended to gain townie points

No, scum wants as many town PRs to oust as possible. Thats why i am pretty sure atleast 1 scum, maybe 2 scums were on Nurse.

How would scum know RN was a pr? This makes no sense.

Naerys might be scum

[Hu Tao]

I think Naerys is arguing this as town and I trust her judgement

Join us gera

Nope. Her reasoning is flawed. It implies scum knew RN was pr. And naerys makes bad arguments like this as scum. So she's prob scum. I still think NotAScum is the better vote here

[Hu Tao]

Help me yeet Hu and you will become solid town, nurse

Sell me on Hu-Hu first thanks.

Ask yourself, what motivation would townie have in helping with creating a speedwagon so early? They way the votes on you grew, wasnt townie at all IMO.

Reminder that last game you did this AS TOWN. Creating a quick wagon.

This is terrible logic.

[Hu Tao]

I usually don't have 2 scumreads this early on, this is exciting

[Hu Tao]

Reminder that last game you did this AS TOWN. Creating a quick wagon.

That was then, this is now. And current speedwagon reeks rather badly.

What makes it reek? That you know who is scum this game?
And remind me? How many scum were on that wagon?

Answer:

0

[Hu Tao]

hu tao i'm struggling to believe your confidence in your notascum read is real

i don't understand the difference between notascum's entrance and KJQ's entrance for one

Because NAS entrance seems forced. KJQ doesn't so far

[Hu Tao]

Thank you Political Clout and Klick for answering that for me.

Klick can you enlighten me on your Hu Tao vote? Was it just random? It feels like your vote started a bit of a trend. Or is literally everyone’s vote right now just random?

There's a few complicated things going into why I want my vote on Hu Tao at the minute that I think would do more harm than good to go into detail about right now. But a good summary of my suspicion there at this point is that I think Hu Tao is more focused on selling herself as genuine than she is on really finding town and scum.

How? I'm pushing my 2 scumreads

[Hu Tao]

I'm so confident Naerys flips scum this game. Eliminate me and vote her out tomorrow. I agree with this.

VOTE: hu tao

She's contradicting herself. She does this as scum. She literally I'd saying the thing she did as town last game is now scummy when I do it.

[Hu Tao]

It is worth the sacrifice to get 1 scum out the game. But only if it is agreed that she is the elimination tomorrow

[Hu Tao]

from the feeling so threatened by a page 3 wagon that you burn a PR to the selfvote+"Eliminate me and vote her out tomorrow!" the whole playerlist seems awfully melodramatic this game

Different things. I agree he shouldn't have done that on e-2 3 pages in. But in the last game I was in with him, i was hammered on page 3. So I get his reasoning for doing so if he felt the need to. Also Naerys was also in that game which is why her reasoning makes 0 sense

[Hu Tao]

It is worth the sacrifice to get 1 scum out the game. But only if it is agreed that she is the elimination tomorrow

that's really dumb! why would anyone agree to that? has an entire town ever agreed to that?

Well if town thinks I'm scum better for them to see I'm town and just vote out my scumread after. Last time Naerys was scum and I was town I literally had to beg for 3 pages for town to eliminate Naerys after I flipped town.

For context:

1 or 2 more for hammer. I probably die tonight. Good bye everyone. I think Naerys is last assuming Prince is scum

Last scum is likely not vanilla.

So enchant is prob town if he's confirmed vanilla.

I think Dunn and kyouko are town.

PoP is likely scum .

Broccoli by vibe is town but by play is sus.

Naerys is likely scum partner and should be the elim tomorrow assuming PoP is scum

Naerys
Hu Tao
Broccoli Quest 2
Guillotina
Enchant
Dunnstral
ssbm_Kyouko

This is the alive list - 7 alive, 4 to hammer - Naerys, Hu Tao, BQ2 and I voted you

I trust your judgement tomorrow but please have naerys as the Elim tomorrow assuming pop is scum

I repeat kill Naerys tomorrow, she chained self to mafia claiming DOCTOR.


Naerys and fresh replacement may be reason why mafia didn't bother to skip kill, they are both just didn't knew hell about it.

I agree naerys is most sus

I'll trust town to decide if naerys isn't scum. But yeah, that should be the vote tomorrow. Sorry for repeating myself so many times.

And yes she was scum.

[Hu Tao]

not helping the "more focused on selling yourself as genuine than finding scum" accusations

Well it won't matter when I flip town? So who cares. There is no mystery anymore.

[Hu Tao]

She's contradicting herself. She does this as scum. She literally I'd saying the thing she did as town last game is now scummy when I do it.

how often do you think this type of contradiction actually catches scum

It's something she does as scum exclusively

[Hu Tao]

I've called her out on this before.

Context:

Hu Tao vs Celebloki could contain a scum.
Hu Tao looks much worse, that slot is untrustworthy. Starting with her is less risky than limming potential useful town PR but also her flip gets plenty of useful info.
I wanted to go this way but allowed Broccoli and Hu to make me hesitate.
Out of the 3 i feel like Hu has the best chance of rolling scum.

VOTE: Hu Tao

???

Why would we contain a scum. Makes no sense. This is Naerys as scum to have this logic

Same game where she was scum

[Hu Tao]

So Psyche is basically an IC
I think Random Nurse is town as well

That's an odd phrasing of words.

Also, what makes you think I'm Town?

Help me yeet Hu and you will become solid town, nurse

Sell me on Hu-Hu first thanks.

Couple folks who might

know

RN is a town wagon.

Good point on klick I thought that post was weird at the time but I forgot about it.

[Hu Tao]

So yeah, I AM pissed, and since I can't describe people accurately then yeah I'll insult their play.

Putting me to L-5 by page 4 with NO FUCKING REASON is BS. I can't trust any of you to use your brains. I could log in and be already hammered, because that's how some people operate. So yeah, I'm going to activate my IC ability because I can't trust people to play intelligently. All I got was snark and stupidity earlier so why risk it?

Also RN next time get this upset when it happens to someone else. So basically me last game.

[Hu Tao]

So yeah, I AM pissed, and since I can't describe people accurately then yeah I'll insult their play.

Putting me to L-5 by page 4 with NO FUCKING REASON is BS. I can't trust any of you to use your brains. I could log in and be already hammered, because that's how some people operate. So yeah, I'm going to activate my IC ability because I can't trust people to play intelligently. All I got was snark and stupidity earlier so why risk it?

Also RN next time get this upset when it happens to someone else. So basically me last game.

(I should clarify this is in jest, I thought it was funny last game and hold no ill will)

[Hu Tao]

Your defense is that it's bad yet it's literally facts that have links proving this.

[Hu Tao]

Kinda tempted to troll hammer tbh

My fingers are itching

This is Naerys reaction as town when it was E-1 on page 3 in last game. Drastically different this game. I wonder why?

[Hu Tao]

I'm so confident Naerys flips scum this game. Eliminate me and vote her out tomorrow. I agree with this.

VOTE: hu tao

She's contradicting herself. She does this as scum. She literally I'd saying the thing she did as town last game is now scummy when I do it.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Self-voting

VOTE: Hu Tao

Can you tell me what you gathered from that link?

[Hu Tao]

Kinda tempted to troll hammer tbh

My fingers are itching

This is Naerys reaction as town when it was E-1 on page 3 in last game. Drastically different this game. I wonder why?

So just to be clear you caught naerys multiple times with this or is this all in just one game?

This is a separate game. One where she was town. Last few quotes was when she was scum. Just showing this is how she reacted last game as town. She wanted to hammer. But this game she was very suspicious of people on the wagon. Which shows a clear difference

[Hu Tao]

Kinda tempted to troll hammer tbh

My fingers are itching

This is Naerys reaction as town when it was E-1 on page 3 in last game. Drastically different this game. I wonder why?

I can asure you scum!me would just sit with a bag of popcorn and watch that speedwagon forming from distance without commenting on it at all

Then why difference here and last game?

[Hu Tao]

This is a separate game. One where she was town. Last few quotes was when she was scum. Just showing this is how she reacted last game as town. She wanted to hammer. But this game she was very suspicious of people on the wagon. Which shows a clear difference

There is plenty of games where i was wary of wagons and commented on it as town. Your argument is invalid. You are just picking what suits you.

Not true. Show me another game where it was e-2 or e-1 on page 3 and how you reacted

[Hu Tao]

I wonder what kind of heat Scum's packing this game.

I'm surprised there's an IC in this game, so Scum is probably packing heat?

VOTE: KeyLaga

Afrayed Knott

Random Nurse

,

Mafia Goon

, executed Day 3

VOTE: Random Nurse

VOTE: random nurse

Dann cooking cookin

I wonder what kind of heat Scum's packing this game.

I'm surprised there's an IC in this game, so Scum is probably packing heat?

VOTE: KeyLaga

Afrayed Knott

Random Nurse

,

Mafia Goon

, executed Day 3

VOTE: Random Nurse

Cook him, bestie!

VOTE: Random Nurse

Also Naerys tell me why you think my vote is worse than PCs. When we say similar things.

I'd want Klick and Ari's reasoning too.

[Hu Tao]

So yeah, I AM pissed, and since I can't describe people accurately then yeah I'll insult their play.

Putting me to L-5 by page 4 with NO FUCKING REASON is BS. I can't trust any of you to use your brains. I could log in and be already hammered, because that's how some people operate. So yeah, I'm going to activate my IC ability because I can't trust people to play intelligently. All I got was snark and stupidity earlier so why risk it?

Also RN next time get this upset when it happens to someone else. So basically me last game.

I did not want you hammered. Mine was a pressure vote: the other players ensured you were hammered.

I can vote for you but NOT want you eliminated right then. Does that make sense?

Yeah I know I just thought it was funny

[Hu Tao]

PC vote was rvs imo, but psyche´s yours and geraintm´s? All those votes are sus. I just feel the worst about yours but the other 2 will certainly get their due aswell.
The thing is, me as townie would never put my RVS vote on person that already has 2 votes or more.It feels like a tree trying to hide itselrf in a forest

So basically because he checked the thread before I did.

[Hu Tao]

Also Naerys tell me why you think my vote is worse than PCs. When we say similar things.

I'd want Klick and Ari's reasoning too.

I don't really know much about PC, I guess he could also be mafia. If you flip mafia he'd probably be the first place I look.

So you're saying that me and him did the same thing as partners. And you're saying that if I flip town you wouldn't? Seems like a weird take

[Hu Tao]

the way you're framing the question feels like something mafia would say tho.

"why is this person's vote not as bad as mine" feels like something mafia say when they feel like they are being unfairly targeted when they think their play is the same as everyone else.

truth be told I voted you because you had the most votes and you had a sus looking hop on to the wagon, I didn't really bother trying to figure out which vote on the wagon was the most sus or whatever, I just saw two votes on you, checked your iso and decided it was a decent place to start.

Wrong. I want to see if people are voting for actual reasons. What do you think of all of the things I said on Naerys?

[Hu Tao]

I think Naerys' approach to Hu Tao feels like starting from a conclusion and finding evidence, vs the opposite.

AGREED

[Hu Tao]

I should be at E-1 now I think. Remember after you see me flip town to vote Naerys tomorrow or I'll be pretty upset.

[Hu Tao]

I think Naerys' approach to Hu Tao feels like starting from a conclusion and finding evidence, vs the opposite.

Funnily enough you described me the way i feel about Hu - she came to conclusion and now she is looking for evidence.

Interesting because I didn't vote you at first, I voted NotAScum. So why would you think this?

[Hu Tao]

So you're saying that me and him did the same thing as partners. And you're saying that if I flip town you wouldn't? Seems like a weird take

if you flip town I'd probably examine Naerys because she's the one you're 100% convinced is mafia who is pushing you.

There's also issues with like, who pushed you, who defended you, who the nightkill is, what role info comes up etc.

The reason I'd go towards looking at PC if you flip mafia is because I can see you doing this as a kind of weird distancing thing to your partner.

Don't you think it's more likely that scum was off the wagon for RN than on? If not how come?

[Hu Tao]

I should be at E-1 now I think. Remember after you see me flip town to vote Naerys tomorrow or I'll be pretty upset.

Emotional blackmail? REALLY?

That's not my intention, sorry if it comes off this way. I'm just saying that I'm okay with being eliminated, if my scumread is too. I wouldn't do this if I thought it wouldn't happen otherwise

[Hu Tao]

I find this tactic really obnoxious and would appreciate if you avoided it in the future

But I think you're not that likely to have partners

This isn't a tactic or play. I'm just trying to do an equal exchange. In my mind once I flip town maybe people will see what I mean.

[Hu Tao]

Like this kind of behavior is very self-focused and you're not that self-focused when your wincon is attached to two other known players

that just seems to assume hu tao is a specific brand of scum player

i don't think that's generally true about scum players

If I'm being honest I would self vote as scum but probably wouldn't say the stuff I'm saying in terms of getting Naerys tomorrow. So I can see how that's manipulative now. Sorry and this wasn't my intention and I won't do it again in the future. I should see how other perspective would see it, not just myself. Now I feel bad.

UNVOTE:

[Hu Tao]

I think Naerys' approach to Hu Tao feels like starting from a conclusion and finding evidence, vs the opposite.

Funnily enough you described me the way i feel about Hu - she came to conclusion and now she is looking for evidence.

Interesting because I didn't vote you at first, I voted NotAScum. So why would you think this?

First you talked about how i am scum and then went to a previous game to support your statement

Well this is just false

It was a good vote imo. No regrets there and would do it again

Good morning fellow townies! This game looks really complex to me.

Okay well. This post was the 2nd post I didn't like. Seems like new scum. I feel the nervousness in this post. Trying to blend in

VOTE: NotAScum

I think this is my preferred vote.

I also think I'm more weary of scum being off that wagon. Scum knew RN was town so they probably soft defended to gain townie points

I also think I'm more weary of scum being off that wagon. Scum knew RN was town so they probably soft defended to gain townie points

No, scum wants as many town PRs to oust as possible. Thats why i am pretty sure atleast 1 scum, maybe 2 scums were on Nurse.

How would scum know RN was a pr? This makes no sense.

Naerys

might

be scum

[Hu Tao]

But you're saying that I mafr a conclusion and then started to find it after. I did not. In fact I still wanted to vote NAS before you

[Hu Tao]

Made*

[Hu Tao]

Probably 2 Scum on my wagon. Could be just 1. Assuming there's 3 I'm thinking for sure 1 maybe 2 were off my wagon.

I agree with the latter

[Hu Tao]

Imo, this does feel a bit like scumHu in the JOAT game that just ended

How so?

[Hu Tao]

Kay feels town to me so far

[Hu Tao]

Imo, this does feel a bit like scumHu in the JOAT game that just ended

How so?

You were kinda flailing when people were calling you scum there, this self vote thing has hints of that same energy.

Fair, I think you're town so far

[Hu Tao]

That game I kinda had to cause chaos d2 cause our scum team mate n1 put us in autoloss without realizing it. But I can see where you'd think it's similar

[Hu Tao]

Kay feels town to me so far

Same

How do you see Kay as anything but null?

Seems like a new player that wants to discuss but doesn't know how.

[Hu Tao]

Kay feels town to me so far

Same

How do you see Kay as anything but null?

Seems like a new player that wants to discuss but doesn't know how.

I am with Dave here, if they are scum they can easily be coached by their buddies on how to post and what questions to ask.

How often does this really happen? Like seriously, I always here coaching from teammates but I've literally never seen 1 example.

[Hu Tao]

Hear*

[Hu Tao]

Kay feels town to me so far

Same

How do you see Kay as anything but null?

Seems like a new player that wants to discuss but doesn't know how.

I am with Dave here, if they are scum they can easily be coached by their buddies on how to post and what questions to ask.

How often does this really happen? Like seriously, I always here coaching from teammates but I've literally never seen 1 example.

Probably not common outside of the newbie games, but now there aren't newbie games......how many games have you been scum with a newbie?

Not many that I remember

[Hu Tao]

Seems like a new player that wants to discuss but doesn't know how.

True enough, but the question is how is that AI?

I feel new scum would not sound as natural

[Hu Tao]

Okay, sure. But I've done reads like this before, this is the first time I'm getting any push back so it's interesting

[Hu Tao]

Doctor Drew - towny
Naerys - scummy
Hu Tao - hu taown
Random Nurse - Town
NotAScum - scum
Aristeia - unsure, maybe slightly towny
geraintm - gera
Political Clout - unsure
Klick - unsure
KayJayQueue - town
Dannflor - unsure
davesaz - probably town
Psyche - the slightest of towny

This is where I'd say I'm at right now

[Hu Tao]

why is davesaz probably town

I've played with scum and town Dave. I like his questions. Seem towny

[Hu Tao]

Doctor Drew - towny
Naerys - scummy
Hu Tao - hu taown
Random Nurse - Town
NotAScum - scum
Aristeia - unsure, maybe slightly towny
geraintm - gera
Political Clout - unsure
Klick - unsure
KayJayQueue - town
Dannflor - unsure
davesaz - probably town
Psyche - the slightest of towny

This is where I'd say I'm at right now

Just wondering if you could clarify/expand your views on a few of these. What do you mean by “geranium-gera”, like you can’t get a read because of the way they play or you’ve seen them do this before and it doesn’t mean anything for sure? Also, I’m wonder what you’re unsure about re: Aristeia.

I agree with a handful of these but there are a few you have as town that I don’t think I could pin down this early, at least not enough to post a full list confidently. (though I suppose being Day 1, everything is just highly speculative anyway)

I think now that I’m off work I’m going to go back and reread today’s posts so I get a better read on things/people. I’ll feel more useful when I have more to add instead of just asking questions after the fact.

Gera is gera. He plays the same lurk style every game. So I'm not sure how to read that. It's why I said gera

In terms of Ari I can see some of her questions being towny but I'm not sure why she's so focused on me when there were others on the wagon. Also I'm curious why she's not asking others questions. Might be bias from my view but her play so far has been focused around me it felt. So I'm a bit unsure on her

[Hu Tao]

If I'm being honest I would self vote as scum but probably wouldn't say the stuff I'm saying in terms of getting Naerys tomorrow. So I can see how that's manipulative now. Sorry and this wasn't my intention and I won't do it again in the future. I should see how other perspective would see it, not just myself. Now I feel bad.

UNVOTE:

you are telling me you had 0 idea your self-vote and "trade deal" case would cause some people to town read you and thus want to unvote you?

because i would find it more believable that you were intentionally being manipulative as town than that you actually believed that if you self voted and died that people would sheep your case on naerys. you actually believe the case is that strong?? you actually believe people care about dead townie's reads?? have you ever seen a situation like that happen before?

like you just said that last game you spent like 3 day phases calling naerys scum before anyone would listen to. what makes you think anyone would listen to you after you died?

Well. Tbf they did vote naerys after I died. So I did believe it, because it worked then. I wasn't trying to manipulating, but it's fair for you to be skeptical.

[Hu Tao]

That Kay post locked her as town for me

[Hu Tao]

you're being very reasonable post-selfvote hu tao

Like I said, I would probably self vote as scum if the situation called for it. So you shouldn't town read that. What are your thoughts on Naery and Klick? Independently

[Hu Tao]

hu tao i also feel like the actions behind your naerys scum read don't match up to how you're treating the read now

it seems like you had close to 100% confidence and now naerys is just "scummy" and you're mostly talking about other stuff now and you're not even voting there...? like why is this read still not the most interesting thing in the game to you if you were willing to die for it

I forgot I wasn't voting

VOTE: Naerys

[Hu Tao]

I’m really worried the vote is getting too close on Hu. Can we please discuss this more? Unless everyone voting Hu is willing to follow through on Naerys the next day, I really think someone should unvote Hu Tao before people jump on/switch to kill Hu and end today early. Maybe I’m just overly-cautious but I don’t think this is the right move unless everyone is taking the 1 for 1 seriously. (and I highly doubt that’s the case, and I don’t really think we should be doing that until we’re sure we wouldn’t just be killing two of our town)

I’m not pushing to vote Naerys instead (even though that’s where my vote is), I’m just asking that we don’t rush this kill. It’s making me apprehensive and I don’t feel like I/we have enough info.

Well we are going t9 have to convince others to vote Naerys cause as RN said he will hammer me. He scumreads me every game so this is not a surprise

[Hu Tao]

Someone in the {Dann, Ari, Naerys} set is scum hoping that this wagon goes over prematurely before the momentum dies out

I'm kinda confused why Dann is still voting me based on our convo earlier, but I'll wait for him to come back and explain

[Hu Tao]

Klick can you see Naerys scum here?

[Hu Tao]

You act like you've never tried before.

[Hu Tao]

Yeet me instead of looking at RN wagon and its shenanigans, 100% logic

Yet YOU aren't looking at the wagon itself, you're only pushing me and tunneling me. You haven't given deep thought from any other slots. Your reasoning for me over PC is because he checked the thread earlier than I did, even though we had a similar post. You haven't been trying to find scum on the wagon, you've been trying to find a reason for me to be scum

[Hu Tao]

Yet YOU aren't looking at the wagon itself, you're only pushing me and tunneling me. You haven't given deep thought from any other slots. Your reasoning for me over PC is because he checked the thread earlier than I did, even though we had a similar post. You haven't been trying to find scum on the wagon, you've been trying to find a reason for me to be scum

I wanted to but i lost any desire to try *shrug*

Yeah okay

[Hu Tao]

No clue how people don't see the blatant contradictions from Naerys when I've been calling them out.

[Hu Tao]

I am never this confident in a scumread. And people complain that I should out reasons for my scumreads more. So when I finally do it, people just ignore it and scumread me instead. Such a silly game sometimes

[Hu Tao]

The thing is Hu Tao you're expressing a massive amount of confidence in the Naerys scumread
but you also say you scumread NotAScum more than her and I think your NotAScum scumread is kinda poor
It gives me low confidence in your supposedly strong Naerys scumread

PEdit: stop

I'd say now I scumread Naerys more. I do think NAS is still scummy. But I'm waiting for his reply

[Hu Tao]

I'm just gonna be honest. If I was scum, I wouldn't try to just hard eliminate someone like this day 1. Seems icky and not fair to them and doesnt allow them to play the game. But I know it's self meta so no one will believe me.

[Hu Tao]

The thing is Hu Tao you're expressing a massive amount of confidence in the Naerys scumread
but you also say you scumread NotAScum more than her and I think your NotAScum scumread is kinda poor
It gives me low confidence in your supposedly strong Naerys scumread

PEdit: stop

I'd say now I scumread Naerys more. I do think NAS is still scummy. But I'm waiting for his reply

Which of those two do you Scumread more and why?

I literally just said in the post Naerys. And just isolate me. And read my last few posts that involve Naerys. She's contradicted herself.

[Hu Tao]

I am going to watch new Avatar:The Last Airbender on netflix, bye

I heard it was bad. But let me know what you think

[Hu Tao]

Please post the exact contradictions.

Might set me off digging there.

Spoiler:

I also think I'm more weary of scum being off that wagon. Scum knew RN was town so they probably soft defended to gain townie points

No, scum wants as many town PRs to oust as possible. Thats why i am pretty sure atleast 1 scum, maybe 2 scums were on Nurse.

How would scum know RN was a pr? This makes no sense.

Naerys might be scum

I think Naerys is arguing this as town and I trust her judgement

Join us gera

Nope. Her reasoning is flawed. It implies scum knew RN was pr. And naerys makes bad arguments like this as scum. So she's prob scum. I still think NotAScum is the better vote here

Help me yeet Hu and you will become solid town, nurse

Sell me on Hu-Hu first thanks.

Ask yourself, what motivation would townie have in helping with creating a speedwagon so early? They way the votes on you grew, wasnt townie at all IMO.

Reminder that last game you did this AS TOWN. Creating a quick wagon.

This is terrible logic.

Reminder that last game you did this AS TOWN. Creating a quick wagon.

That was then, this is now. And current speedwagon reeks rather badly.

What makes it reek? That you know who is scum this game?
And remind me? How many scum were on that wagon?

Answer:

0

It is worth the sacrifice to get 1 scum out the game. But only if it is agreed that she is the elimination tomorrow

that's really dumb! why would anyone agree to that? has an entire town ever agreed to that?

Well if town thinks I'm scum better for them to see I'm town and just vote out my scumread after. Last time Naerys was scum and I was town I literally had to beg for 3 pages for town to eliminate Naerys after I flipped town.

For context:

1 or 2 more for hammer. I probably die tonight. Good bye everyone. I think Naerys is last assuming Prince is scum

Last scum is likely not vanilla.

So enchant is prob town if he's confirmed vanilla.

I think Dunn and kyouko are town.

PoP is likely scum .

Broccoli by vibe is town but by play is sus.

Naerys is likely scum partner and should be the elim tomorrow assuming PoP is scum

Naerys
Hu Tao
Broccoli Quest 2
Guillotina
Enchant
Dunnstral
ssbm_Kyouko

This is the alive list - 7 alive, 4 to hammer - Naerys, Hu Tao, BQ2 and I voted you

I trust your judgement tomorrow but please have naerys as the Elim tomorrow assuming pop is scum

I repeat kill Naerys tomorrow, she chained self to mafia claiming DOCTOR.


Naerys and fresh replacement may be reason why mafia didn't bother to skip kill, they are both just didn't knew hell about it.

I agree naerys is most sus

I'll trust town to decide if naerys isn't scum. But yeah, that should be the vote tomorrow. Sorry for repeating myself so many times.

And yes she was scum.

She's contradicting herself. She does this as scum. She literally I'd saying the thing she did as town last game is now scummy when I do it.

how often do you think this type of contradiction actually catches scum

It's something she does as scum exclusively

I've called her out on this before.

Context:

Hu Tao vs Celebloki could contain a scum.
Hu Tao looks much worse, that slot is untrustworthy. Starting with her is less risky than limming potential useful town PR but also her flip gets plenty of useful info.
I wanted to go this way but allowed Broccoli and Hu to make me hesitate.
Out of the 3 i feel like Hu has the best chance of rolling scum.

VOTE: Hu Tao

???

Why would we contain a scum. Makes no sense. This is Naerys as scum to have this logic

Same game where she was scum

Kinda tempted to troll hammer tbh

My fingers are itching

This is Naerys reaction as town when it was E-1 on page 3 in last game. Drastically different this game. I wonder why?

Kinda tempted to troll hammer tbh

My fingers are itching

This is Naerys reaction as town when it was E-1 on page 3 in last game. Drastically different this game. I wonder why?

So just to be clear you caught naerys multiple times with this or is this all in just one game?

This is a separate game. One where she was town. Last few quotes was when she was scum. Just showing this is how she reacted last game as town. She wanted to hammer. But this game she was very suspicious of people on the wagon. Which shows a clear difference

Kinda tempted to troll hammer tbh

My fingers are itching

This is Naerys reaction as town when it was E-1 on page 3 in last game. Drastically different this game. I wonder why?

I can asure you scum!me would just sit with a bag of popcorn and watch that speedwagon forming from distance without commenting on it at all

Then why difference here and last game?

I wonder what kind of heat Scum's packing this game.

I'm surprised there's an IC in this game, so Scum is probably packing heat?

VOTE: KeyLaga

Afrayed Knott

Random Nurse

,

Mafia Goon

, executed Day 3

VOTE: Random Nurse

VOTE: random nurse

Dann cooking cookin

I wonder what kind of heat Scum's packing this game.

I'm surprised there's an IC in this game, so Scum is probably packing heat?

VOTE: KeyLaga

Afrayed Knott

Random Nurse

,

Mafia Goon

, executed Day 3

VOTE: Random Nurse

Cook him, bestie!

VOTE: Random Nurse

Also Naerys tell me why you think my vote is worse than PCs. When we say similar things.

I'd want Klick and Ari's reasoning too.

PC vote was rvs imo, but psyche´s yours and geraintm´s? All those votes are sus. I just feel the worst about yours but the other 2 will certainly get their due aswell.
The thing is, me as townie would never put my RVS vote on person that already has 2 votes or more.It feels like a tree trying to hide itselrf in a forest

So basically because he checked the thread before I did.

I think Naerys' approach to Hu Tao feels like starting from a conclusion and finding evidence, vs the opposite.

AGREED

I think Naerys' approach to Hu Tao feels like starting from a conclusion and finding evidence, vs the opposite.

Funnily enough you described me the way i feel about Hu - she came to conclusion and now she is looking for evidence.

Interesting because I didn't vote you at first, I voted NotAScum. So why would you think this?

First you talked about how i am scum and then went to a previous game to support your statement

Well this is just false

It was a good vote imo. No regrets there and would do it again

Good morning fellow townies! This game looks really complex to me.

Okay well. This post was the 2nd post I didn't like. Seems like new scum. I feel the nervousness in this post. Trying to blend in

VOTE: NotAScum

I think this is my preferred vote.

I also think I'm more weary of scum being off that wagon. Scum knew RN was town so they probably soft defended to gain townie points

I also think I'm more weary of scum being off that wagon. Scum knew RN was town so they probably soft defended to gain townie points

No, scum wants as many town PRs to oust as possible. Thats why i am pretty sure atleast 1 scum, maybe 2 scums were on Nurse.

How would scum know RN was a pr? This makes no sense.

Naerys

might

be scum

But you're saying that I mafr a conclusion and then started to find it after. I did not. In fact I still wanted to vote NAS before you

Yeet me instead of looking at RN wagon and its shenanigans, 100% logic

Yet YOU aren't looking at the wagon itself, you're only pushing me and tunneling me. You haven't given deep thought from any other slots. Your reasoning for me over PC is because he checked the thread earlier than I did, even though we had a similar post. You haven't been trying to find scum on the wagon, you've been trying to find a reason for me to be scum

Yet YOU aren't looking at the wagon itself, you're only pushing me and tunneling me. You haven't given deep thought from any other slots. Your reasoning for me over PC is because he checked the thread earlier than I did, even though we had a similar post. You haven't been trying to find scum on the wagon, you've been trying to find a reason for me to be scum

I wanted to but i lost any desire to try *shrug*

Yeah okay

Okay this

[Hu Tao]

She's contradicted herself.

And i have shown you a game where i did something similiar as here and i was town. But you keep ignoring that

That was different and you know it. You're the one who started the voting that game

[Hu Tao]

You know, I sense Naerys hasn’t really been taking my posts seriously, for example: responding.

So what does that mean? Ignoring me only makes it much, MUCH worse. If she’s Scum is she avoiding trying to get entangled by my feelers?

…

to what i didnt respond?

Go look through my posts and show me exactly what you didn’t respond to.

No, i wont.

*licks fangs*

Bruh?

[Hu Tao]

And don’t get quiet on me now, Hu. I know you’re still here.

I wasn't but I am now

[Hu Tao]

It’d be hilarious if Naerys and Hu were engaged in distancing.

…

Hilarious indeed.

Not sure how serious this comment was but I highly doubt this, solely because Hu was very close to being eliminated with the last thing they were pushing was voting Naerys out. Unless the plan was to clear naerys the rest of the game. I still just don’t see that as a good day 1 plan, but I don’t have much to go off of in terms of past game experience so I can’t say with any conviction that it couldn’t or wouldn’t happen.

Hu is very capable as Scum. I’m assuming you don’t know her like I do (10+ alts included). She once counter-claimed a Cop with a claimed guilty on her and got his ass launched.

What are your alts?

[Hu Tao]

And don’t get quiet on me now, Hu. I know you’re still here.

I wasn't but I am now

…with nothing to say, eh?

I don't think there is much to say. Naerys is still the same. I think Klick is being reflective, and giving good examples of why he was feeling the way he was and they make sense. I've never played with him where he was scum but it is all lining up for him to be town

[Hu Tao]

I think i’d rather not kill hu tao or naerys today

Why not Naerys?

[Hu Tao]

I think i’d rather not kill hu tao or naerys today

Why not Naerys?

I think her frustration seems genuine

She can be frustrated and scum.

viewtopic.php?p=14034549#p14034549

Here she was frustrated and scum.

[Hu Tao]

Hu Tao, two things

1. I apologise for mostly ignoring your case up to this point; my brain mentally shortcuts to check out from most arguments of that nature because 9 times out of 10 they aren't that helpful and are a distraction from my sorting. I think there's a possibility for what you're arguing now to have some merit, but it's pitched the same way I've seen many many cases without merit be pitched in the past and so I kinda just glossed over it

2. I think something that would help is like, a more succinct version of exactly what it is that makes you confident in Naerys being scum. I think I have a general picture from staring at your ISO for like 20ish minutes but then it feels like there are several strands of conversation that don't feel that relevant to your overall point. Can you give me like, a 4-6 sentence summary, along with what background information to read so that I can get on the same page as you? Sorry, I know this is asking for redundant info, but it would help a lot, at least for me

@Hu Tao can I get a response to this? Doesn't have to be immediate but at some point. Since we're on the topic of voting Naerys vs other options

Please post the exact contradictions.

Might set me off digging there.

Spoiler:

I also think I'm more weary of scum being off that wagon. Scum knew RN was town so they probably soft defended to gain townie points

No, scum wants as many town PRs to oust as possible. Thats why i am pretty sure atleast 1 scum, maybe 2 scums were on Nurse.

How would scum know RN was a pr? This makes no sense.

Naerys might be scum

I think Naerys is arguing this as town and I trust her judgement

Join us gera

Nope. Her reasoning is flawed. It implies scum knew RN was pr. And naerys makes bad arguments like this as scum. So she's prob scum. I still think NotAScum is the better vote here

Help me yeet Hu and you will become solid town, nurse

Sell me on Hu-Hu first thanks.

Ask yourself, what motivation would townie have in helping with creating a speedwagon so early? They way the votes on you grew, wasnt townie at all IMO.

Reminder that last game you did this AS TOWN. Creating a quick wagon.

This is terrible logic.

Reminder that last game you did this AS TOWN. Creating a quick wagon.

That was then, this is now. And current speedwagon reeks rather badly.

What makes it reek? That you know who is scum this game?
And remind me? How many scum were on that wagon?

Answer:

0

It is worth the sacrifice to get 1 scum out the game. But only if it is agreed that she is the elimination tomorrow

that's really dumb! why would anyone agree to that? has an entire town ever agreed to that?

Well if town thinks I'm scum better for them to see I'm town and just vote out my scumread after. Last time Naerys was scum and I was town I literally had to beg for 3 pages for town to eliminate Naerys after I flipped town.

For context:

1 or 2 more for hammer. I probably die tonight. Good bye everyone. I think Naerys is last assuming Prince is scum

Last scum is likely not vanilla.

So enchant is prob town if he's confirmed vanilla.

I think Dunn and kyouko are town.

PoP is likely scum .

Broccoli by vibe is town but by play is sus.

Naerys is likely scum partner and should be the elim tomorrow assuming PoP is scum

Naerys
Hu Tao
Broccoli Quest 2
Guillotina
Enchant
Dunnstral
ssbm_Kyouko

This is the alive list - 7 alive, 4 to hammer - Naerys, Hu Tao, BQ2 and I voted you

I trust your judgement tomorrow but please have naerys as the Elim tomorrow assuming pop is scum

I repeat kill Naerys tomorrow, she chained self to mafia claiming DOCTOR.


Naerys and fresh replacement may be reason why mafia didn't bother to skip kill, they are both just didn't knew hell about it.

I agree naerys is most sus

I'll trust town to decide if naerys isn't scum. But yeah, that should be the vote tomorrow. Sorry for repeating myself so many times.

And yes she was scum.

She's contradicting herself. She does this as scum. She literally I'd saying the thing she did as town last game is now scummy when I do it.

how often do you think this type of contradiction actually catches scum

It's something she does as scum exclusively

I've called her out on this before.

Context:

Hu Tao vs Celebloki could contain a scum.
Hu Tao looks much worse, that slot is untrustworthy. Starting with her is less risky than limming potential useful town PR but also her flip gets plenty of useful info.
I wanted to go this way but allowed Broccoli and Hu to make me hesitate.
Out of the 3 i feel like Hu has the best chance of rolling scum.

VOTE: Hu Tao

???

Why would we contain a scum. Makes no sense. This is Naerys as scum to have this logic

Same game where she was scum

Kinda tempted to troll hammer tbh

My fingers are itching

This is Naerys reaction as town when it was E-1 on page 3 in last game. Drastically different this game. I wonder why?

Kinda tempted to troll hammer tbh

My fingers are itching

This is Naerys reaction as town when it was E-1 on page 3 in last game. Drastically different this game. I wonder why?

So just to be clear you caught naerys multiple times with this or is this all in just one game?

This is a separate game. One where she was town. Last few quotes was when she was scum. Just showing this is how she reacted last game as town. She wanted to hammer. But this game she was very suspicious of people on the wagon. Which shows a clear difference

Kinda tempted to troll hammer tbh

My fingers are itching

This is Naerys reaction as town when it was E-1 on page 3 in last game. Drastically different this game. I wonder why?

I can asure you scum!me would just sit with a bag of popcorn and watch that speedwagon forming from distance without commenting on it at all

Then why difference here and last game?

I wonder what kind of heat Scum's packing this game.

I'm surprised there's an IC in this game, so Scum is probably packing heat?

VOTE: KeyLaga

Afrayed Knott

Random Nurse

,

Mafia Goon

, executed Day 3

VOTE: Random Nurse

VOTE: random nurse

Dann cooking cookin

I wonder what kind of heat Scum's packing this game.

I'm surprised there's an IC in this game, so Scum is probably packing heat?

VOTE: KeyLaga

Afrayed Knott

Random Nurse

,

Mafia Goon

, executed Day 3

VOTE: Random Nurse

Cook him, bestie!

VOTE: Random Nurse

Also Naerys tell me why you think my vote is worse than PCs. When we say similar things.

I'd want Klick and Ari's reasoning too.

PC vote was rvs imo, but psyche´s yours and geraintm´s? All those votes are sus. I just feel the worst about yours but the other 2 will certainly get their due aswell.
The thing is, me as townie would never put my RVS vote on person that already has 2 votes or more.It feels like a tree trying to hide itselrf in a forest

So basically because he checked the thread before I did.

I think Naerys' approach to Hu Tao feels like starting from a conclusion and finding evidence, vs the opposite.

AGREED

I think Naerys' approach to Hu Tao feels like starting from a conclusion and finding evidence, vs the opposite.

Funnily enough you described me the way i feel about Hu - she came to conclusion and now she is looking for evidence.

Interesting because I didn't vote you at first, I voted NotAScum. So why would you think this?

First you talked about how i am scum and then went to a previous game to support your statement

Well this is just false

It was a good vote imo. No regrets there and would do it again

Good morning fellow townies! This game looks really complex to me.

Okay well. This post was the 2nd post I didn't like. Seems like new scum. I feel the nervousness in this post. Trying to blend in

VOTE: NotAScum

I think this is my preferred vote.

I also think I'm more weary of scum being off that wagon. Scum knew RN was town so they probably soft defended to gain townie points

I also think I'm more weary of scum being off that wagon. Scum knew RN was town so they probably soft defended to gain townie points

No, scum wants as many town PRs to oust as possible. Thats why i am pretty sure atleast 1 scum, maybe 2 scums were on Nurse.

How would scum know RN was a pr? This makes no sense.

Naerys

might

be scum

But you're saying that I mafr a conclusion and then started to find it after. I did not. In fact I still wanted to vote NAS before you

Yeet me instead of looking at RN wagon and its shenanigans, 100% logic

Yet YOU aren't looking at the wagon itself, you're only pushing me and tunneling me. You haven't given deep thought from any other slots. Your reasoning for me over PC is because he checked the thread earlier than I did, even though we had a similar post. You haven't been trying to find scum on the wagon, you've been trying to find a reason for me to be scum

Yet YOU aren't looking at the wagon itself, you're only pushing me and tunneling me. You haven't given deep thought from any other slots. Your reasoning for me over PC is because he checked the thread earlier than I did, even though we had a similar post. You haven't been trying to find scum on the wagon, you've been trying to find a reason for me to be scum

I wanted to but i lost any desire to try *shrug*

Yeah okay

Okay this

Yeah it's here

[Hu Tao]

She's just contradicting herself a lot of times this game. That = scum

[Hu Tao]

Doctor Drew what do you think about voting either Naerys or Hu?

Naughty point

[Hu Tao]

She's just contradicting herself a lot of times this game. That = scum

and then i flip green and Hu´s confidence crumbles to dust

This implies you know I'm town but you're saying I'm scum

[Hu Tao]

She's just contradicting herself a lot of times this game. That = scum

and then i flip green and Hu´s confidence crumbles to dust

This implies you know I'm town but you're saying I'm scum

Where does that imply that? I only know that i am town

Why would my confidence crumble if I'm scum and I successfully miseliminate you

[Hu Tao]

If there is a Vigilante this game, I'd suggest vigging NotAScum. They seem like new scum.

[Hu Tao]

Re: NotAScum, I don't know how to separate new scum and new town with such a short iso. Sure, pulling out the wiki on self voting is sketchy but I don't see why scum (with possible mentors as partners) would do that more than town without.

That said, Hu Tao + NotAScum could be distancing. I think HT called NAS scum off a single post and failed to adequately explain why later, and weak mutual scumreads is a common distancing mode.

I beg you. One time, try seeing a game where I am town. You did this the last 2 games. Keep trying to say I could be scum with others.

[Hu Tao]

It would be funny if Naerys and Hu Tao are both scum trying to forcefully distance and set up the other as town after a flip of either.

[Hu Tao]

Why would my confidence crumble if I'm scum and I successfully miseliminate you

bcz scum has to keep up some appearances, if you´d remain confident after being so obviously "wrong" it´d be suspicious
so obviously your confidence will have to crumble even if for the spectators

this seems really contrived

VOTE: Naerys

What are your thoughts on other people this game that don't include me or Naerys

[Hu Tao]

the page provides an entire system for classifying self-votes and explains in detail how each type of self vote could come from scum

or

from town.

then the only sentence from which it can be gleaned that anyone thinks self-voting is a scumtell is:
"While this practice is commonly seen as scum-indicative, no data has been compiled on the actual effectiveness of self-voting as a towntell or a scumtell."
this is arguably the most disapproving way that a writer could conceivably share that information without openly abandoning wikipedia's editorial guidelines

but someone clinging to the mafia wiki for dear life took the exact opposite message home?
it does not pass the smell test

also it's not the pulling out the wiki that's scummy
it's the fiction that the slot decided to vote hu tao based on the content of that wiki

VOTE: notascum

i think this is it, the easy D1 slam dunk that even this town deserves
i will try really hard not to be too obnoxious about how shitty every other wagon is by comparison

While I do think they could be scum, I want to hear their response. That's why I think a vig there is better if there is one

[Hu Tao]

but someone clinging to the mafia wiki for dear life took the exact opposite message home?
it does not pass the smell test

I think I mentioned before that HT jumping on RN wagon looked opportunistic. Couple that with that self-vote, it looks really scummy.

Okay yeah this is scum. Then why post the link? What was the point of that? You voted when you posted the link

[Hu Tao]

Why would my confidence crumble if I'm scum and I successfully miseliminate you

bcz scum has to keep up some appearances, if you´d remain confident after being so obviously "wrong" it´d be suspicious
so obviously your confidence will have to crumble even if for the spectators

this seems really contrived

VOTE: Naerys

What are your thoughts on other people this game that don't include me or Naerys

I feel like I’ve been asking this same question to a brick wall all day

[Hu Tao]

I mentioned self-vote on its own doesn't mean much. But when you've this possible scum who jumped on the RN train and then a train starts forming on them, they could use the self-vote to subdue it.

is just really wild to read when the vote for hu tao was in this post:

I'm so confident Naerys flips scum this game. Eliminate me and vote her out tomorrow. I agree with this.

VOTE: hu tao

She's contradicting herself. She does this as scum. She literally I'd saying the thing she did as town last game is now scummy when I do it.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Self-voting

VOTE: Hu Tao

Yep!

[Hu Tao]

Could it be Naerys, Psyche, Klick?

*makes measuring gestures with hands*

I think psyche and Klick are prob town. I think we look elsewhere. Aren't you sus of NAS?

[Hu Tao]

LHF is low hanging fruit, ie easy targets.

naeyrs is the low hanging fruit. or maybe hu tao. either of the self-voters are hanging pretty low

I don't consider either to be LHF, especially Hu. Naerys, when Town, does engage when sufficiently motivated.

I feel like Nae gets frustrated easily, especially when erroneously scum read, and kinda puts up that wall.

Tbf though, I don't think I have seen her scum game

She's done this as scum too. I've posted the link in the thread already

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: psyche

Terrible vote

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: kayjayqueue

Even worse vote. Holy bad vote. This almost makes me want to vote you

[Hu Tao]

I think Aristeia should be given more scrutiny.

Yeah I agree

[Hu Tao]

Could it be Naerys, Psyche, Klick?

*makes measuring gestures with hands*

I think psyche and Klick are prob town. I think we look elsewhere. Aren't you sus of NAS?

Not at all.

Insultingly flimsy "reasoning" was given.

The post where he voted me he voted me with a link to self voting. In the link it says it's bad to do as both alignments. But when asked, he says that he was sus of the vote swap. The vote and reasoning don't add up

[Hu Tao]

I have a new reads list

[Hu Tao]

Doctor Drew - Unsure. I want to lean towny
Naerys - scummy
Hu Tao - hu taown
Random Nurse - Town
NotAScum - scum
Aristeia - unsure, leaning scummy.
geraintm - gera still
Political Clout - leaning sus
Klick - towny
KayJayQueue - town
Dannflor - unsure. Bad vote, might be scummy ( but he's good as scum so idk if he makes that vote as scum. But it might be a distraction vote so I think I'd still lean scum)
davesaz - probably town
Psyche - towny

This is where I am leaning at the moment

[Hu Tao]

I would not be surprised if all 3 scum were in: Naerys, NotAScum, Ari, Gera, PC, Dann. (Maybe Drew too but I need more time on him. I keep flipping on his alignment)

[Hu Tao]

If you're in this list and town please start town telling. Begging

[Hu Tao]

If you're in this list and town please start town telling. Begging

What exactly is “town telling”? (legit question) because I’m assuming it’s not just saying “hey I’m town”

Basically being townier in general

[Hu Tao]

I would not be surprised if all 3 scum were in: Naerys, NotAScum, Ari, Gera, PC, Dann. (Maybe Drew too but I need more time on him. I keep flipping on his alignment)

Why Ari?

She's done nothing when I asked what her reads are outside of me and naerys she didn't give a great answer.

[Hu Tao]

I would not be surprised if all 3 scum were in: Naerys, NotAScum, Ari, Gera, PC, Dann. (Maybe Drew too but I need more time on him. I keep flipping on his alignment)

Why Ari?

Why not?

Compelling counterpoint Hu

[Hu Tao]

In case you didn't realize that wasn't me

[Hu Tao]

Idk. Ari isn't even on my top 3 to be eliminated right now, so I don't get the need to defend her here.

[Hu Tao]

I don't get why narrowing down scum team is a bad thing.

[Hu Tao]

Naur

[Hu Tao]

Hiii

[Hu Tao]

7-10 days are way too long IMO. Should be reduced to 2-3 days. After few days there nothing fresh to discuss.

Hey, are you ignoring my posts too?

I've had TWO posts directed towards you ignored now.

I can't have that. Please go and respond to my posts.

They are new scum. Trust. I could feel it from a mile away

[Hu Tao]

I still think Naerys today. If there is a vigilante, they should shoot NotAScum

[Hu Tao]

I don't get why narrowing down scum team is a bad thing.

Picking scum is like 3 out of 12 for town.
Picking 2 scum is what, 6 out of 132?
Picking 3 scum is 6 out of 1320?

Of all the things that happened since you last posted, this is what you choose to reply to?

[Hu Tao]

I don't get why narrowing down scum team is a bad thing.

Picking scum is like 3 out of 12 for town.
Picking 2 scum is what, 6 out of 132?
Picking 3 scum is 6 out of 1320?

Of all the things that happened since you last posted, this is what you choose to reply to?

I only reply to the best

I'm honoured

[Hu Tao]

The resistance to Naerys is unbelievable

[Hu Tao]

I still think Naerys today. If there is a vigilante, they should shoot NotAScum

What are the pros/cons of voting and shooting one or the other? I’ve never played a game with a vigilante but I’m assuming it’s pretty straightforward that they can kill at night? I’m going to go reread the role but I’d still be open to answers about pros/cons (are there any cons?) and if it matters who we vote vs who the vigilante shoots.

Naerys gets more information. Usually a low information slot is vigged. There is no guarantee that a vig is in this game, which is why I said Naerys is better to be voted out now

[Hu Tao]

The resistance to Naerys is unbelievable

How much of your scumread is based on her voting you earlier?

Like 10%

[Hu Tao]

Although my gut does suspect there's at least one among Klick, Hu Tao, and Psyche. Anyone have first-hand experience with Klick's Scum meta?

Also, hi Titus.

I've been asked to quote this for... *reasons.*

Pretty sure you're

0 out of 3

Strikeout

[Hu Tao]

It's not a Hard Town read but I think NAS is more likely town due to it

Naur

[Hu Tao]

Although my gut does suspect there's at least one among Klick, Hu Tao, and Psyche. Anyone have first-hand experience with Klick's Scum meta?

Also, hi Titus.

I've been asked to quote this for... *reasons.*

Pretty sure you're

0 out of 3

Strikeout

Well of course you would say this if you're Scum.

Or town

[Hu Tao]

Hmmmm

[Hu Tao]

Are we giving HT a pass?

Why aren't you on Naerys. She did the same thing as me?

[Hu Tao]

It's okay. Just look at my list of 6. It has all scum in there

[Hu Tao]

Last game I played with PC they were giving way more reads and were more engaged than whatever they are doing now. I can see some partner equity in Dann based on how they converse but that's a small read. I'd be fine with PC today

[Hu Tao]

I'm ok with gera but that seems like the easy vote. Could be right but still seems easy

[Hu Tao]

I'm psychic

[Hu Tao]

It just feels contrived, but that could be you just being scum.

[Hu Tao]

Im going to quote the post and then you read it again in case you misread

[Hu Tao]

Last game I played with PC they were giving way more reads and were more engaged than whatever they are doing now. I can see some partner equity in Dann based on how they converse but that's a small read. I'd be fine with PC today

[Hu Tao]

I hate this shit.

I suspect like 12 of you.

This is you literally every game.

[Hu Tao]

Just follow my list of 6

[Hu Tao]

Naerys, NotAScum, Ari, Gera, PC, Dann

This has all 3 scum

[Hu Tao]

swap me and titus

Naur

[Hu Tao]

I'm fine with Naerys or PC. I still prefer Naerys

[Hu Tao]

another town game lost
warning: Hu is really good as scum

Luckily I am town this game.

[Hu Tao]

let’s order the playerlist by how good they are as scum and eliminate down the line

You're first in line. Time to eliminate you

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: PC

While I think that Naerys is still a good Elim, I think PC is a good Elim too.

[Hu Tao]

I think Titus is the bait. I'm a no on Titus today

[Hu Tao]

I was leaning town on Drew. I think the replacement is bait from scum since she isn't participating as much right now

[Hu Tao]

what did drew do that made you think he was townie?

I liked some of his questions

[Hu Tao]

The resistance to Naerys wagon is getting difficult to ignore.

I’m thinking Naerys is scum and her partners are trying to prevent her launch.

We can get Naerys later. Jump on PC

[Hu Tao]

The resistance to Naerys wagon is getting difficult to ignore.

I’m thinking Naerys is scum and her partners are trying to prevent her launch.

We can get Naerys later. Jump on PC

Why?

He's done 0 solving. His posts and votes don't seem to make much sense. Try isoing and see if you can make better sense of it than I can

[Hu Tao]

I'm sensing HT and Psyche as teammates, the two have some really nice synergy going for them. They are avoiding voting the same person to avoid looking like teammates despite mostly having similar opinions on possible scums. Whenever there is some pressure on HT building up, Psyche has tried his very best to quell the tension.

Yes. So true bestie

[Hu Tao]

i also sense that ht and i are teammates and dislike that we aren’t voting together

You don't want to vote PC?

[Hu Tao]

Dude, you couldve quoted multiple times in one reply rather than making 6 different posts smh. This is sus behavior, feels like youre increasing post counts for some ulterior reason.

[Hu Tao]

Titus, do you have opinions on anyone else?

Leaning scum on Dan. He's opposing everything I'm saying rather than working with me.

I'm concerned about Wake, but that could be real life.

I like pc, ger, hu tao and kay.

Look at the vote count and look at wake's name

[Hu Tao]

it feels like half the player list doesn't care to play

I'm not getting this feeling at all. Interesting

[Hu Tao]

I'm also a bit confused on why notascum gets such a different treatment to kjq.

Because kjq seems natural. NotAScum seems forced and fake. All his posts do.

[Hu Tao]

Naerys, NotAScum, Ari, Gera, PC, Dann. I still believe all 3 scum are in here. For today I'm willing to temporarily remove Ari, but will be back in this list tomorrow.

I actually really want NotAScum today. Idk if everyone else will want that though. I'm fine with PC or Naerys compromise

[Hu Tao]

I'm also a bit confused on why notascum gets such a different treatment to kjq.

Because kjq seems natural. NotAScum seems forced and fake. All his posts do.

so if he is scum I'm his teammate and trying to help him out to this extent? Why wouldn't I give him posts in the mafia pt? I'm not sure if I buy the forced and fake can you give me an example?

I talked about this before. Coaching is such a thing that doesn't happen. Give me one example of it happening in scum chats before

[Hu Tao]

Give me one example of it happening in scum chats before

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=79493
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=90033&p=13529183#p13529183
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=80123&p=11045692#p11045692

In a non newbie game. Those are basically coaching games

[Hu Tao]

I'm also a bit confused on why notascum gets such a different treatment to kjq.

Because kjq seems natural. NotAScum seems forced and fake. All his posts do.

so if he is scum I'm his teammate and trying to help him out to this extent? Why wouldn't I give him posts in the mafia pt? I'm not sure if I buy the forced and fake can you give me an example?

I talked about this before. Coaching is such a thing that doesn't happen. Give me one example of it happening in scum chats before

so if I am scum I'm not coaching him at all in the scum pt and that's why I'm doing this whole song and dance with regards to notascum? I'm curious what would you say to notascum if you and he were scum together in this game in the pt? or would you not say anything at all too? or is that too theoretical for you?

Your defense is that you 2 can't be teamed. Instead of saying why you or him independently aren't scum.

[Hu Tao]

we don't have newbie games anymore

NAS is a newbie

Regardless. It requires someone who wants to coach and wants to listen and will actually do it. And you can't coach every post. I don't think that should be part of the equation.

[Hu Tao]

Why isn't he scum? You can quote it

[Hu Tao]

Dude, you couldve quoted multiple times in one reply rather than making 6 different posts smh. This is sus behavior, feels like youre increasing post counts for some ulterior reason.

Well this one seemed a bit forced to me

[Hu Tao]

I'm feeling this Random Nurse guy is probably a town. Don't ask me how I deduced that.

either he is the best newb scum player in the world or he has no idea what is going on in this game.

@hu tao I can expand on it too if you want.

That was clearly a sarcastic post or a pretending to slip post. I think based on what's he's said so far he tries to understand what's going on. Thus why he posted the link the the self voting wiki. I don't think based on what he's done he would not know RN was town already

[Hu Tao]

I'm feeling this Random Nurse guy is probably a town. Don't ask me how I deduced that.

either he is the best newb scum player in the world or he has no idea what is going on in this game.

@hu tao I can expand on it too if you want.

That was clearly a sarcastic post or a pretending to slip post. I think based on what's he's said so far he tries to understand what's going on. Thus why he posted the link the the self voting wiki. I don't think based on what he's done he would not know RN was town already

so he was forced and fake in all of his posts except for this one? you are prone to hyperbole hu tao.

I just can't see it as being a joke. new player + not a lot of posts + never joked around and not joking around except that one post + no interaction with the thread except for his thoughts on a player first the self vote thing then about rn then about gera.

Maybe we just see it differently. But I personally think he's scum

[Hu Tao]

like i don't get why you don't want to kill naerys anymore hu tao, what changed

Well this is false. I literally said I still would be okay with Naerys but it has stalled

[Hu Tao]

the paranoid part of me would think that maybe you don't think flipping naerys looks very good for you

This makes no sense from you. If I was worried about that why would I put myself at e-1 knowing I could flip

[Hu Tao]

Ari Dan Psyche? Thoughts on that being the team.

0 chance imo. Maybe 2 out of those

[Hu Tao]

You’re right. But that only makes me more confused about what naerys is doing.

my point is more the optics of hard pushing someone who is hard pushing you back are a lot better than hard pushing someone who has given up and self voted

but i don't understand why hu tao would care about that if the certainty of her scum read on naerys still remains

Also I want to add to this. If you're getting this thought why are you still on PC? Wouldn't that make you think PC could be town? The reason I don't think this is a real reason is cause I would expect you to unvote or switch votes.

[Hu Tao]

Hu Tao are you ever going to answer which questions from Drew you found townie

Imo, this does feel a bit like scumHu in the JOAT game that just ended

Imo, this does feel a bit like scumHu in the JOAT game that just ended

How so?

You were kinda flailing when people were calling you scum there, this self vote thing has hints of that same energy.

Seems like a new player that wants to discuss but doesn't know how.

True enough, but the question is how is that AI?

Seems like a new player that wants to discuss but doesn't know how.

True enough, but the question is how is that AI?

I feel new scum would not sound as natural

I feel like this is going down a wifom spiral, that I honestly don't feel like is helping anything(and I am just as guilty)

Playing off this though, Hu and Klick calling Kay town is making me squint a bit at them

I would not be surprised if all 3 scum were in: Naerys, NotAScum, Ari, Gera, PC, Dann. (Maybe Drew too but I need more time on him. I keep flipping on his alignment)

Why Ari?

the way you're framing the question feels like something mafia would say tho.

"why is this person's vote not as bad as mine" feels like something mafia say when they feel like they are being unfairly targeted when they think their play is the same as everyone else.

truth be told I voted you because you had the most votes and you had a sus looking hop on to the wagon, I didn't really bother trying to figure out which vote on the wagon was the most sus or whatever, I just saw two votes on you, checked your iso and decided it was a decent place to start.

Does scum make this post here?

These posts. I think I can see why he thinks the games would be similar even though he's wrong so I buy that. Also his question as to why he thinks you could be town is a good point that I can see him making as town.

[Hu Tao]

like i don't get why you don't want to kill naerys anymore hu tao, what changed

Well this is false. I literally said I still would be okay with Naerys but it has stalled

okay, but would you agree your enthusiasm for that lim has lessened?

No. But I can't do anything if people aren't going to vote

[Hu Tao]

no

This is getting ridiculous.

yes

Please give me a reason not to switch my vote back to you.

If you’re not interested in playing, I don’t understand why you’re in the game.

Let's do it.

VOTE: naerys

[Hu Tao]

My personal opinion is that Naerys thinks this is the only way she can weasel out of being the Elim is being like this. And sadly it's working.

[Hu Tao]

She did the self-vote far before that was remotely true though

(@Hu Tao)

She saw the tides turning

[Hu Tao]

She did the self-vote far before that was remotely true though

(@Hu Tao)

She saw the tides turning

And when this predictably gets Naerys killed anyway and she flips scum, how are her actions towards you explainable?
Unless you want to argue that she is only concerned with short-term survival and not at all concerned with spew in the event she flips scum

Look how hard it is to get her voted out with confirmed town wanting to vote her. She's playing this well enough that people are not scumreading her which is what she is doing on purpose

[Hu Tao]

She's playing this well enough that people are not scumreading her which is what she is doing on purpose

stop lying

I feel like you'd be acting differently as town here. It's not like this game is too hard to keep up with

[Hu Tao]

I think one of the reasons the tilt would make sense is if naerys just wanted to distance off HT with the vote, then when HT got run up couldnt figure out a way to exit and they had some kind of argument in the scum PT and hu tao yelled at her to get off and she decided to die rather than play on the same team as HT

This feels like fan fiction lol

Kay you're great

[Hu Tao]

I know i am town and from my point of view it kinda feels like trying to topple a struggling wagon

um my theory is about your motivation to save hu tao who is on your team

so if people think its a good theory, the lim today would be hu tao not you

so its literally the opposite of what you're accusing me of doing.

This is 0 sense. You are back on the list of 6

[Hu Tao]

Frankly I think the narrative of 'this is all a very intentional scum ploy from Naerys' is ridiculous and she's obviously not enjoying this or having much intentionality in how she feels about this and I have no clue why Hu Tao thinks that's at all plausible

She can be scum and not enjoying

[Hu Tao]

the last mini normal he modded had a town IC/Ninja enabler that killing it would make the mafia not ninjas.

the mini normal before that had an alien enabler mafia which if limmed disabled a town tpr.

the point I'm making here is that because of the complex rating and the mod meta there can be distinction between the scum roles such that one scum role would be much better for the town to yeet than another.

and if naerys is the weaker scum role and she distanced off Hu tao (the stronger scum role) and then hu tao got mad at her because the direction of the bussing is wrong that would explain the tilt that went on in the thread.

Funny you mention that.

If I’m killed it harms Scum’s power. That’s all I’m willing to say right now.

We all know you wouldn't say that if that was the case. Doctor or bodyguard be on Nurse. I don't want a fake claim later and they weren't on you

[Hu Tao]

ITT Klick predictably continues to run cover for Naerys.

I know it's uncomfortable territory for you not being paranoid of everyone in the game

[Hu Tao]

town is
Me
Rn
not a scum
titus
hu tao
naerys
dann - leaning town
aristea - leaning town

Im unsure of Dave

i'm leaning scum on
kjq
klick
gera
psyche

If you're scum gera is probably scum

[Hu Tao]

why does naerys even choose to stick around as town for so long after her self vote? at best it stretches credibility. rather than giving up on the game, i think she's been invested this whole time and believing that lurking provides a low effort way to sidestep suspicion

She's butthurt that Hu Tao isn't dying and she's getting suspected. It's explained more by her feeling ignored and like she's right and everyone else is wrong, as opposed to people leaning more towards accurately finding her as scum.

Naerys doesn't dislike me or anything. She's just scum this game. Trust

[Hu Tao]

This is her way to survive

[Hu Tao]

I think ari might be scum. She is pushing the Naerys/me narrative because she knows Naerys is gonna flip scum. And knows that they can't nk me because of my self vote to e-1 they know on VT. So only way to get rid of me is to tie me to Naerys

[Hu Tao]

Or maybe I'm over cooking right now

[Hu Tao]

I'm * not on

[Hu Tao]

think dann is town. kind of curious why hu tao keeps him in her pool

He's good as scum. Can look towny

[Hu Tao]

who's gonna tell naerys that she accidentally joined the "assume stuff about what's going on in people's heads" game

LMFAO

[Hu Tao]

think dann is town. kind of curious why hu tao keeps him in her pool

He's good as scum. Can look towny

How is Dann as Scum?

Does he normally refuse to work with Tiwn especially ICs?

I think he just does what he can to be towny

[Hu Tao]

Part of me thinks a Naerys launch would yield much more data on player exchanges.

I'll vote naerys over not a scum.

Prove it. Vote her

[Hu Tao]

Ari Dan Psyche? Thoughts on that being the team.

0 chance imo. Maybe 2 out of those

Which two?

Ari Dann

[Hu Tao]

Only a few more Naerys votes I think

[Hu Tao]

Klick you are amazing.

Naerys I'm so sorry now I feel bad. Post game let's talk it over, cause I really did feel you were doing what you do as scum. And after last game I thought you'd do more than just self vote there.

[Hu Tao]

So I think PC is probably town BTW. Day ended before I could go over final reads, he started to act like he did as his last town game I was in with him and he started to ask more questions toward the end with me.

[Hu Tao]

Is a Vig possible?

I find it hard to believe Scum WOULDN’T target me.

If vig targeted Klick I'd start questioning our vig

[Hu Tao]

If a vig killed klick I'd be shocked and disappointed.

[Hu Tao]

So I think PC is probably town BTW. Day ended before I could go over final reads, he started to act like he did as his last town game I was in with him and he started to ask more questions toward the end with me.

So why do you think I’m still alive?

They must think I’m hopelessly confused.

They may have made a horrible mistake, considering they don’t know my full role.

They are probably scared of a doctor

[Hu Tao]

Would they really believe you?

[Hu Tao]

Or maybe they have a role cop. Idk.