The War to End All Freaktowns: GAME OVER
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Kinetic Mafia Scum
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Albert's statement only stated that the both of you were homosexual. Thus, when you responded to me with the following text, "homophobe" I figured you were indeed confirming the fact that you were homosexual, and then took issue with me. I then deduced that you believed I had a problem with that, but I did not.Battle Mage wrote:
incorrect. You confirmed agreement with a statement which used the term 'gay' to mean something detrimental-something i would expect from a 5 year old. Even Jathan knows better. It can be assumed that Albert did not mean 'gay' literally, but you seem to have failed to realise this. Do you see now why it is impossible for people to take what you say seriously?Kinetic wrote:
I never said I hated your lifestyle choice, only that you like to take it in the bum.Battle Mage wrote:
homophobe.Kinetic wrote:/agree
Go be as gay as you want to be BM.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I'll tell you the honest truth, I really don't like this item claiming thing.
First, there is not even a consensus on WHAT we are claiming. There are three possible item lists we can claim as I see it. The items we are currently holding, the items we can get randomly from our stores, and the items we need. Some people are saying we are only claiming the items that we are holding, others are saying other things.
Second, no one has presented a case where this HELPS town. Are we going to item claim every day? Even if we did, the scum still have plenty of time to make up a story. From what I have read, this might help the scum by letting them pick up items that they know other players need or holding items they can't use just so someone else doesn't use it.
Third, how do we know that the scum don't have some sorts of abilities that require them to know what items someone has or needs, and can use some power roles for it? What if scum need certain items from people and decide when to kill the based on that knowledge.
I'm sorry, I really don't like this idea, nor the way people are just saying "Its a good idea" without explaining why. I've seen some vague explanations, but that is it. Until some of these points are addressed, I can honestly say I will be avoiding a mass item claim at this time.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Kinetic, Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: 217 wrote:I'll tell you the honest truth, I really don't like this item claiming thing.
First, there is not even a consensus on WHAT we are claiming. There are three possible item lists we can claim as I see it. The items we are currently holding, the items we can get randomly from our stores, and the items we need. Some people are saying we are only claiming the items that we are holding, others are saying other things.
Second, no one has presented a case where this HELPS town. Are we going to item claim every day? Even if we did, the scum still have plenty of time to make up a story. From what I have read, this might help the scum by letting them pick up items that they know other players need or holding items they can't use just so someone else doesn't use it.
Third, how do we know that the scum don't have some sorts of abilities that require them to know what items someone has or needs, and can use some power roles for it? What if scum need certain items from people and decide when to kill the based on that knowledge.
I'm sorry, I really don't like this idea, nor the way people are just saying "Its a good idea" without explaining why. I've seen some vague explanations, but that is it. Until some of these points are addressed, I can honestly say I will be avoiding a mass item claim at this time.
I find it funny that everyone (save MOS) just ignored this.JDodge,Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: 228 wrote:
If you're so worried about us "not being constructive", why don't you actually contribute something "constructive"?Kinetic, Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:25 am Post subject: 226 wrote:Looks like constructive discussion has ceased... if it ever began. I'm going to go sleep in the corner, wake me when you guys start playing the game.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Unvote;Vote:KScope
I see what you're saying MOS. Still don't like the item claim idea, (Mainly because it really hasn't been established -.-, and people keep making up new rules and there seems to be no consistency -.-.)
That being said this claim is already going better than the last one, lol.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Poor Fritzy. Survivor was on the ground at the beginning of the day. Looks like someone picked it up...rajrhcpfreak wrote:Day One
As people walk around in the morning they find some items lying around the town square.
Items on the ground:- Survivor DVD
Purse
Messenger
Cloth
Blockus
Chocolate Chip Cookies
Blackberries
Unreal Tournament Disc
Staples
Fish
Meganplayed byscotmany12, KilledNight 1
Everyone enters the courthouse to discuss what they should do about the death of scotmany12. When they enter they see three Newspapers. The town passes the Newspapers around looking at the headlines.
The Freaktown Sun-Times
Mafia seen in nearby stores giving each other objects
The Freaktown Enquirer
Mafia can eat twice as much as normal citizens
Mafia Courier-Journal
Mafia’s control includes half the town
With 26 alive it will take 14 votes to convict someone.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I have stated all I will on the item claim. The terms keep changing and if there was discussion before the given terms were set, I would have pointed something out: Mainly that you can possibly derive the store from which your item came from based on what you dropped. I don't want to give that information out to the scum at the current time, it is something I feel the scum could make much more use of then the town.
I'm not sure how the "dead" shops work, but it seems to me those items are not going to be lost forever. Either someone has an ability that lets them loot dead character's stores (which seems like a scummy ability to me, but it could be town), the item rolled for on the list is "dropped" from the store at the beginning of the next day, or people can just choose to steal from the store at will (the doors are open, we can see all the items), I think it is a little crazy to give out that information yet. I would hate to be night killed because some scum wants the items in my store. So I refuse to tell them where I'm from.
As I understand it the point of the item claim is to determine who is holding what. If someone doesn't claim to have picked up what I dropped, I would make a note of it and maybe say something, but I'm sure someone would notice if an item that was on the ground wasn't claimed. I will also definitely claim what item I dropped if someone decides to be a wise guy and claim to have dropped something I actually dropped.
Also, the only reason I even claimed I had nothing was because I in fact have nothing. I don't really think going through with the item claim is a good idea, solely on the principal that the scum could kill someone who has an item they need. If I was actually holding something I would have been a lot more vehement against this item claim, and its possible I might even be so tomorrow. But since people started claiming before we even knewwhatto claim, I'm really unsure on how to proceed at this point.
Some people just "assume" we'll do this everyday, while others think its a one day thing, and while others still don't actually completely agree on the terms that seem to have been pushed forward.
That being said, if everyone else claims what they dropped you can most likely guess what I dropped from what hasn't been claimed.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Well I was kind of half joking about the whole Fritz thing. I kinda thought it was funny since the way he attached himself to you earlier I half thought it might be because he knew about the item. When he claimed he didn't (or at least you pointed out he never said anything) I wanted to see what Fritz/you would do about the increased pressure/attention.ibaesha wrote:
*agree*IH wrote:Sounds like scum or SK who's trying to avoid being nightkilled. Townies have nothing to fear from a NK.
And since I'm no longer happy with my kscope vote...
unvote, vote Kinetic
I didn't really like his post where he claimed that I said Fritz was lying scum, either. Because I didn't. When I made the post regarding Fritz's claim, I actually felt it was -more- likely that Fritz didn't pay attention to his PMs than that he was lying. If I had truly felt that Fritz was lying, my post would've been accompanied by a vote. Note: it wasn't.
Also, in regards to Kinetic's last post:
I think it's more likely that scum would be trying to figure out who has what stores than town. Because Kinetic is thinking from that perspective, it hints to me that he's possible scum attempting to do just that. People who think like scum, tend to be scum. Just sayin'.
Unvote, mainly because I've pretty much accomplished what I set out for.
And Ibby, I think about all the possibilities, good and bad, about such a thing that may really effect the town, you know, like a mass item claim. If I felt that I figured something out, I'm going tell the town. I've been mulling it over in my head about why scum might want an item claim, and I've come up with a few reasons (I've mentioned others before). But they're all just speculation. I wish I had more information to go on, or perhaps more discussion, but by the way this went down, and its amazing quickness, I really didn't have much time to think about all the possibilities.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Well IH, the main reason I don't want to do that, is that while everyone might have an item goal, if some people don't, and there are vanilla in this game that are not scum but don't have an item goal, we have just outed all the power roles to the scum.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Well I'm here (have been the whole time...), I think the main targets right now consist of IH, Mari, and KD. Seems to me it might be best to string someone up and maybe get some claims. To me it seems like though, no matter what is claimed we may not know if its a town or a scum role >>.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I put him on that list because the last 3-4 pages or so have been devoted to people pressuring IH. Not necessarily all voting for him, but I stand by what I said, that he seems to be one of the possible targets. I eliminated myself and BM from the pool because, frankly, the votes on the two of us are either really old and (in the case of BM) irrelevant to the game. BM having 1-2 votes on him at anytime is normal in my opinion.Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm assuming the "you and BM" in Carrotcake's post was referring to myself and BM, but it'd be nice if we got clarification.
This post is really off. IH is not that much of a target. He has two votes, for fuck's sake. Just because you're voting him does not make him a main target. Hell, you and Battle Mage have two votes, so that'd make you two main targets as well. Why did the list have to stop at IH? And while we're on the subject of the list, K-sc0pe should definitely not be lynched today. As far as I can tell all 4 people voting him don't have a reason to do it. They voted on suspicion I created, and that suspicion is no longer valid at all. K-sc0pe is definitely not someone we should consider for lynch today.Kinetic wrote:Well I'm here (have been the whole time...), I think the main targets right now consist of IH, Mari, and KD. Seems to me it might be best to string someone up and maybe get some claims. To me it seems like though, no matter what is claimed we may not know if its a town or a scum role >>.
Vote: Kinetic
There, now you're a main target for today. Seems a lot better than the "main targets" you suggested.
I agree on KScope, heck I was one of the first ones to vote him and unvote him on the exact same information as you. But that doesn't mean he doesn't still have the most votes.
So let me ask YOU: We have a deadline in 3 %^#*ing days. What should we do? Look at EVERY possible target and try and get SOMETHING going, or just flounder and say, "Hmm well I have no idea what to do?" I think if we have to lynch in 3 days that we SHOULD. It may not be the BEST lynch, but its the town who loses if we don't.
I do personally think IH is possible scum, so yes, I'm going to put him on my list. His response?
Mmmm, can you smell the OMGUS.IH wrote:
.......Kinetic wrote:Well I'm here (have been the whole time...), I think the main targets right now consist of IH, Mari, and KD. Seems to me it might be best to string someone up and maybe get some claims. To me it seems like though, no matter what is claimed we may not know if its a town or a scum role >>.fos:kineticLarge Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Alright, since it seems like this isn't a joke (or OMGUS) wagon anymore, can I start hearing some sort of case please?
So far I've had two suspicious votes (Taut, FLC) because of their lack of doing anything but jumping on a bandwagon. Could one of IH/Mari be scum and the scum team is jumping on me to counter-wagon?
So if the people voting me would indulge me to answer a few questions:
So let's see:
Taut: What type of information do you think will be found out by my lynch? Could you elaborate?
Ibby:
I didn't intend to make it seem like you called Fritz lying scum. It was me who thought Fritz was lying scum, and I thought it was funny that Fritz was defending you earlier (jokingly, I'm sure) with the Mariyata wagon was found to not be telling the whole truth by you.I didn't really like his post where he claimed that I said Fritz was lying scum, either. Because I didn't. When I made the post regarding Fritz's claim, I actually felt it was -more- likely that Fritz didn't pay attention to his PMs than that he was lying. If I had truly felt that Fritz was lying, my post would've been accompanied by a vote. Note: it wasn't.
I personally don't think that Fritz "didn't know" he got the item from you, or that he had it. That seemed very suspicious to me. Either he never did get the item and you were trying to communicate in the thread to him so he could say so, or he did get it and was trying to hide that fact, not realizing you already partially sold him out. I think the whole thing was scummy, and I wanted to know more. That is why I voted for Fritz.
I've unvoted him because at this time I'm not particularly sure about him, but at this time I'm not willing to pursue it. I'm just going to keep my eyes open.
Well then you don't know me very well at all. I like to think of every possibility and express them. I'm pretty sure you know this about me, but I'll remind you all the same. I'm going to examine as much as I can, using any means that I can. If thinking like scum is scummy, then how are town ever supposed to catch scum? I'm trying to get into the scum's head, trying to figure out their motivations.Also, in regards to Kinetic's last post:
I think it's more likely that scum would be trying to figure out who has what stores than town. Because Kinetic is thinking from that perspective, it hints to me that he's possible scum attempting to do just that. People who think like scum, tend to be scum. Just sayin'.
For instance, if this mass claim is a scum idea, why would it be? Maybe the scum thought it would be a good idea to get ahead of the mass claim to look town. Maybe certain roles do something, or learn something.
Why would town want to mass claim? Similar reasons I would presume.
FLC:
What do you agree with? Specifically? You have voted me twice, which is odd in that you've only had 5 posts, and you voted me, never unvoted or voted someone else, and then in your very next post, you voted me again... I almost took a double take...
Anyway: The way it looks to me I'm thinking at least one of (IH, Ibby, FLC) are scum, but I can't figure out which. I'm leaning toward IH.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Wow. Lower the Ad Hom. I'm trying to understand the case against me, and you making personal attacks isn't helping me do anything but want to ignore you and throw you and your arguments by the wayside.Faeren Lord of Carlisle wrote:all of your posts are offending mey sense of towniness. I agree with myself. You continually and pointlessly argued against a widely accepted item claim. My voting you twice must of been a mistake, but you deserve it you scumbag. you never item-claimed, even though, like, the rest of the town did. Now that people understand your scumminess, you're trying to throw around suspicion on many other people in a pathetic deflection attempt
Now first: I don't think arguing against the claim was pointless. In fact I made several points that were not ever addressed by anyone, and were subsequently ignored. That alone makes me suspicious of the people pushing the claim. Until my points are adequately addressed, or at least acknowledged by more than a cursory dismissal, I don't feel quite like playing ball.
Second: I did Item Claim. At least to the extant that I understood we were claiming. The second thing that bothered me about the item claim was that we never fully explained WHAT we were claiming until well after we started claiming. When I claimed, it was exactly the information that MOS asked for at the time. No more, no less. Since then, things have changed about how we are claiming, but my position has not. I still think that, for the most part, this could be a very bad idea. And I don't like jumping into something like this without at least a little bit more information.
Third: About a third of the town has NOT item claimed, even though you assure me that they have. This was the latest list of people that have not item claimed yet:
Since then IH has claimed. Taut "claimed" but his claim was pretty much exactly like mine, yet you're not all over him about it.Blight wrote:1. Battle Mage
2. FlyingFoxBat
3. IH
4. JDodge
5. LoudmouthLee
6. MastermindofSin
7. rolandofthewhite
8. soupfly
9. tautology
10. xyzzy
Let's see who's on this list... OMFG MOS AND BM are there!!!11!!!111!!one
Look, the two players so adamantly pushing the item claim,
havn't claimed. No, No one's scum alarms are going off.FLC wrote:even though, like, the rest of the town did
Something is up. And if I'm the only one who notices it, something is definitely wrong.
Preview Edit: Carrotcake, I have already claimed.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Ibby:
I did bring these concerns up before the claim began. They were ignored. That is why I am so frustrated. Here are my three major anti-claim posts. True, one of them was made mid-way through the claim, but I was the only person who was trying to discuss the possibilities. When no one responded, and I found myself talking to just myself, I couldn't do anything but twiddle my thumbs. It was hard for me to think of every possibility, and sometimes it just takes time. Since I was the only one thinking about how this might HURT the town, I couldn't think of everything at once. Some help would have been appreciated.
The first claim I could find (KScopes) was made on the 11th and the 12th. So, I really don't understand how you could say "I should have brought this up before". I did.
Kinetic, Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:25 pm wrote:What exactly would item claiming entail? Would we claim all the items we currently have? Would we claim what items come from out store? Would we claim the items we need? I'm a little confused as to where item claiming begins and ends...Kinetic, Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:48 pm wrote:I'll tell you the honest truth, I really don't like this item claiming thing.
First, there is not even a consensus on WHAT we are claiming. There are three possible item lists we can claim as I see it. The items we are currently holding, the items we can get randomly from our stores, and the items we need. Some people are saying we are only claiming the items that we are holding, others are saying other things.
Second, no one has presented a case where this HELPS town. Are we going to item claim every day? Even if we did, the scum still have plenty of time to make up a story. From what I have read, this might help the scum by letting them pick up items that they know other players need or holding items they can't use just so someone else doesn't use it.
Third, how do we know that the scum don't have some sorts of abilities that require them to know what items someone has or needs, and can use some power roles for it? What if scum need certain items from people and decide when to kill the based on that knowledge.
I'm sorry, I really don't like this idea, nor the way people are just saying "Its a good idea" without explaining why. I've seen some vague explanations, but that is it. Until some of these points are addressed, I can honestly say I will be avoiding a mass item claim at this time.Kinetic, Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:41 pm wrote:I have stated all I will on the item claim. The terms keep changing and if there was discussion before the given terms were set, I would have pointed something out: Mainly that you can possibly derive the store from which your item came from based on what you dropped. I don't want to give that information out to the scum at the current time, it is something I feel the scum could make much more use of then the town.
I'm not sure how the "dead" shops work, but it seems to me those items are not going to be lost forever. Either someone has an ability that lets them loot dead character's stores (which seems like a scummy ability to me, but it could be town), the item rolled for on the list is "dropped" from the store at the beginning of the next day, or people can just choose to steal from the store at will (the doors are open, we can see all the items), I think it is a little crazy to give out that information yet. I would hate to be night killed because some scum wants the items in my store. So I refuse to tell them where I'm from.
As I understand it the point of the item claim is to determine who is holding what. If someone doesn't claim to have picked up what I dropped, I would make a note of it and maybe say something, but I'm sure someone would notice if an item that was on the ground wasn't claimed. I will also definitely claim what item I dropped if someone decides to be a wise guy and claim to have dropped something I actually dropped.
Also, the only reason I even claimed I had nothing was because I in fact have nothing. I don't really think going through with the item claim is a good idea, solely on the principal that the scum could kill someone who has an item they need. If I was actually holding something I would have been a lot more vehement against this item claim, and its possible I might even be so tomorrow. But since people started claiming before we even knewwhatto claim, I'm really unsure on how to proceed at this point.
Some people just "assume" we'll do this everyday, while others think its a one day thing, and while others still don't actually completely agree on the terms that seem to have been pushed forward.
That being said, if everyone else claims what they dropped you can most likely guess what I dropped from what hasn't been claimed.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Alright. So let me get this straight.
1) You have a "fair few items" you don't want to claim, basically for the reasons I outlined, even though you've been pushing others to claim all day.
2) You also want the Survivor DVD.
3) Even under pressure you want to try and hide and say you "might" tell us why if we don't lynch you today.
WTF BM?
Claim all your items now, or die scum hoarder.
Or maybe claim your items now and die scum hoarder anyway.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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What? Who said the scum have to keep their claims? This isn't like a role claim MOS, items are going to change hands everyday. The only way to get THAT out is if we force a claim on stores and item goals. If we know what someone is trying to achieve and we know how they can achieve it, then we can fill in the dots. The whole item claiming today is just a cluster $%@#. Poorly planned, poorly executed, pushed forward without discussion, and without even goals set forward. We have no idea what we were trying to achieve and we fell all over ourselves failing to achieve it.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Kinetic Mafia Scum
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Kinetic Mafia Scum
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Kinetic Mafia Scum
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Kinetic Mafia Scum
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Kinetic Mafia Scum
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MOS: It isn't what Carrotcake asked for that made me FOS him/her, it is how she/he said it. It reeked of scum planning to try and tell Kilroy what to do to save himself, or whatnotto do, more specifically, to protect the scum. I completely figured that Kilroy would have spontaneously given the "information" Carrotcake asked for. If he is scum, I'm afraid he might not now.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Carrotcake, stop being dense. >> We KNOW that already... we wanted Kilroy to tell us FREELY without someone telling him WHY we wanted to know. You BLEW that before and you just BLEW it again after he might have forgotten.
MAJOR FOS: CarrotcakeLarge Theme List Mod Emeritus
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If we're going to kill someone for lurking I'm more inclined to kill xyzzy. He lurked hardcore like this as mafia in Mini Countdown not 2 weeks ago.
Unvote;Vote: Xyzzy
I'll revote Kilroy if deadline approaches. I'll vote Roland if deadline approaches and he's more likely to be lynched. The last thing we need is a no lynch.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I don't know Roland, or his play. I know xyzzy lurks as scum in a game I played with him recently. I'm willing to vote Roland to avoid no lynch, but I'm more willing to vote xyzzy. If I'm right, before xyzzy is lynched he'll come back, exactly like he did in the last game I played with him.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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I think this could be settled raj if you tell us if
A) They picked up their prods or not, or
B) if you're actively looking for their replacement or not.
If A is yes, and they're still not posting, well then this lynch target makes sense since, like MOS said, they are lurking as a strategy, which is anti-town play at its finest.
If A is no, and B is yes, then we'll back off until you find a replacement.
If you cannot answer either of these though, the town will have no choice but to believe you cannot tell us because as a mod you think that will give away their alignment.
I think the consensus is no one wants to lynch these people for what they've done, but for what they are not doing.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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YagamiLight wrote:Yeah, it's you, and I noticed Kinetic needs to claim what he dropped.
No, I don't. I'm not waiting to claim what I dropped last, I just said if everyone claimed true you could figure it out by process of elimination, but I'm not doing any of the work for you. That isn't what the item claim was when I claimed and I have already statedYagamiLight wrote:Yeah, I just noticed its incompleteness. MoS was wrong though, Kinetic also has to claim his dropped item. I would be all right if he did that last (got the impression that's what he;s waiting for anyway).I've done everything required of me by the item claim.multiple timesLarge Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Its not OMGUS BattleMage, stop using logical fallicies and lying >>.
My position has been completely consistent, I don't think this item claim is a good idea. Then the WAY we were doing the item claim kept changing.
My FOS has nothing to do with you using your HOS on me, it has everything to do with your reasonings for doing so, which were completely false.
You're inconsistent and hypocritical. How is that poor logic?Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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Since no one else has said it, this is the reason I voted KScope and then subsequently unvoted him.
KScope claimed two items, yet claimed he didn't pick up, give away, nor receive an item from anyone. He never claimed where that second item came from (And I personally didn't know "Bear Bear" was a type of alcohol). It wasn't until Yagami mentioned that it was wine, and I realized that KScope's winemaker character MADE the wine, that I figured out how he had the two items. Originally I thought he had received the second item from a scum buddy but didn't know if he should say who.
Now that I've explained that, KScope send me the alcohol ^^.Large Theme List Mod Emeritus
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