DP12 JeepFest Mafia GAME OVER
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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"Do anything with"what, exactly? Basically, DP said that roles aren't just comprised of people actually in attendance at Jeepfest so that everyone knows that a role claim like "MeMe" isn't necessarily bogus and that a role claim of "Jeep" isn't a sure thing. Without DP's statement, a mass claim might have been a possible strategy...withDP's statement, it isn't.
So, basically, you want to interpret DP's note as a point in favor of tentatively clearing the actual partygoers which, I believe, is exactly the type of thing DP was trying to show us is fruitless. I'm willing to wager that your role is actually in attendance -- I'm quiteunwilling, however, to go along with the notion that you're less likely to be scum because of it.
And this has nothing to do with the game -- but I just want to clarify that there were no "invitees" to Jeepfest. All GLers and 'scummers were welcome!Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Yes, I disagree with that. I'm not saying that your "attendees = probably town" theory isAxelrod wrote:Perhaps I did not make myself clear. When I read that part of DP's introduction, it sounded to me like the mafia would be people who werenotattending the Jeepfest in real life (forget "invited"). Do you disagree with that?definitelywrong -- but Iamsaying that interpreting DP's comments as pointing to any particular group of roles as more likely to be innocent than another is, more than likely, amisinterpretation. Even if it winds up being true, I doubt that was DP's intent.
While I believe both of these statements likely to be true, I'll point out that the second wasn't "clearly stated" by DP. He said "other well-known names" without specifying alignment.Axelrod wrote:In order topreventa mass role claim from breaking the game open, DP has also clearly stated (1) that not everyone who is actually in attendance IRL will be represented in this game and (2) that there will be townie roles in this game who are people not attending the party. Do you disagree with that?
Well I don't see how, even if both of the statements above were accurate, thatAxelrod wrote:If these statements are true, then the people who have roles that are actually attending the party are more likely to be townies. That's all I'm saying.attendees are more likely townfollows as a natural conclusion. That's allI'msaying.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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1) I can discuss whatever the hell I want to discuss.
but
2) Pointing out that someoneelse's speculation is not solid isn't even close to being synonymous with "speculating on who the mafia is role-wise."
unvote: Nox
vote: EnterYourNameHere
I'll also point out that Leonidas is the only player yet to post.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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What a weird thing to say. MS is right...a fast lynch is bad for the town, so the person who "just comes along and votes," ending the day,SaberKitty wrote:yeah, there are now 9 votes, but if someone just comes along and votes, i really doubt they're mafia. at least this early in the game, isnt' killing a random townie who most likely wont' pose a threat(since he's not posting) kind of pointless? or at least, it looks that way to me.shouldbe viewed with suspicion.
And I agree with anFOS: on Peacebringerfor "miscounting" when SaberKitty clearly called her vote the ninth.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Ditto. I've not missed a single post. Ah, the irony of SaberKitty playing "good little poster/prodder."Leonidas wrote:Yes, SaberKitty, I've seen your post.
I'm happy with my current vote, but I am pretty interested in all of those who are still chastising Vesuvan for choosing not to claim when under pressure. Claiming shouldalwaysbe a last resort and Vesuvan did quite well talking himself out of the noose without spilling his role. Bravo, I say.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Just for the hell of it, I'll point out that SaberKitty has now been absent for a longer stretch of time than I was when she saw fit to pointmeout as an "inactive" and claim she hates it when "people don't play."
Under deadline, I'll keep my vote on PBuG (whom I like better as scum than the other leaders: Someone & olio)...but I wanted to get that out there.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Nope...NanookTheWolf wrote:I thought that the only roles in this game had to be people who attended Jeepfest, Saberkitty wasn't one of them or otherwise she wouldn't be in this game.
And neither Ataraxy nor Foolster were there, as far as I know.Dragon Phoenix wrote:The player names are a mix of names of people who will attend the actual party and other well-known names from one (or both) of the two sites.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Vesuvan: If I find out that someone's holding the role of SaberKitty, I'll want to take a good look at them. Why would you try toquashspeculation stemming from the morning scene?
Nox: SaberKitty posted about roland, not me
Someone: No joke about SaberKitty of which I'm aware, but cats have claws and going for eyes automatically made me think of clawing out eyes. Just speculation, but I don't think it'spoorspeculation.
roland & Someone- Why would MeMe make more sense as someone who goes for the eyes?Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Well, this explains your absence for next week...but not your absence for theThe Shadow wrote:I'm leaving tomorrow on a week long trip. Should have net access, but if you don't spot anyone skulking in the shadows, it's probably because I'm not here.pastweek.
Also, PeaceBringer has yet to post today.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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I don't know whether to believe PeaceBringer...being caught lurking when he'd advocated lurkerwagons earlier might have been enough to inspire an excuse. He's also said that when he has information for us, it'll probably be more confusing than helpful.
Basically, what his post does is forces those who don't believe him into the position of saying,"I wanna lynch the guy who claims he can't fight back," which, if he's scum, is a very crafty play.
Whatever, though -- I can't see getting much support for that point of view.
unvote: PeaceBringer
vote: SomeoneRemember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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He's notthatgood.
The role of mith could be easily written as evil or good, but seeing as... 1) he's the owner of mafiascum and has access to information that most of us don't and 2) is the designated moderator for most of the mafia games in face-to-face get togethers, even making custom cards for the purpose this year... I'd be more likely to guess him as being helpful than harmful in this particular theme.
My two cents.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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IGMEOY = I've got my eye on you.
unvote: Someone
vote: Nox
Can't argue with the observations that have been made. The biggest weirdness for me is that Nox says she "can't risk lynching a power role" when she hadnoproblem with it -- indeed, was using "turning a blind eye" toward roland as an accusation point -- less than 12 hours prior...which, though before his technical claim,stillcame after roland's clear statement that he possessed information.
I've also noted the use of light blue in her posts twice during the game and wonder if it might be significant.
There ya go, Nox. You've heard more from me. You're welcome.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Um...no. This was an attempt to dissuade Someone from voting for himself to protect someone that I saw no reason should be considered non-scummy.Vesuvan wrote:It's an attempt to discredit Someone by saying that there is no way he could know that Nox is a townie. That's exactly what I'd do if I were scum in that situation - discredit the hint that is effectively turning vanilla townies into Masons.
And Fuldu said it well. My vote's still on Nox deliberately.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Well, since you asked, I'll stop watching who twists what to clear it up.
Ididn'tassume or say that he knew it. I said that hecan'tknow it. Big difference.
And when you don't know for sure that someone's innocent, you shouldn't protect him/her by giving up your own life.MeMe wrote:Someone: If you're telling the truth, you know you're innocent...but youcan'tknow that Nox is.
Whodidleap to the conclusion that Someone knew Nox was innocent? Vesuvan.Vesuvan wrote:Also, I think I know how Someone knows Nox is town. I'm pretty sure from that Someone is also town.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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I repeat: because when you don't know for sure that someone's innocent, you shouldn't protect him/her by giving up your own life.the silent speaker wrote:MeMe:
But he never said or implied that heI didn't assume or say that he knew it. I said that hecan'tknow it. Big difference.could. So why say this at all?Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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After a re-read of recent events, I've got a couple of things to say.
First, just in case tsstrulyisn't understanding me, I'm going to give an example to prevent us going 'round and 'round.
Johnny: I'm pretty sure this bridge is safe to cross, so I'm going to cross it.
Sally: But you can't know that bridge is safe to cross, so why risk it?
Sally's making a specific point that because Johnny can't be sure of its safety, the move to act on an assumption is a poor one. If Johnny had said he KNOWS the bridge is safe, there'd be less room for Sally's concern. The very lack of "know" in Johnny's statement shows it as an assumption that could be incorrect.
In Someone's case (if he's telling the truth), he was saying that it was better for him (a claimed townie) to die than Nox (a claimed townie)...something that I thought was a huge risk and should be pointed out as such.
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Second, if tss doesn't understand the above example, I'll just have to assume that he's not interested in understanding.
tss -- I'm already wondering about your motive since you were the person to misrepresent the wording of my post...
...when the actual wording was...the silent speaker wrote:All I saw her do was ask how, given that Someone is a plain townie, he *knows* that Nox is one too.
Nowhere do I ask Someone "how he knows." What I did ask was why he'd sacrifice himself for something heMeMe wrote:Someone: If you're telling the truth, you know you're innocent...but youcan'tknow that Nox is. And why wouldn't we learn just as much from a Nox lynch (who claims to be townie, just like you) as yours?doesn'tknow.
Just five posts after the one above (where you say "All I saw her do..."), you say...
...which no one besides yourself even mentioned. You apparently believe that you saying something once makes it "established." You then challenged me with...the silent speaker wrote:We've established that her leap from "believe" to "know" was unwarranted
...where, again, you use the word "leap" which is your wording, no one else's, and put it forth as evidence. I answered with "I didn't." So, you've applied actions to me that are demonstrably untrue while ignoring the fact that Vesuvan actuallythe silent speaker wrote:So, MeMe, whydidyou leap to the assumption that Someone knew Nox's innocence for sure? You never said.diddo the thing you find so questionable, i.e. said that Someone knows Nox is innocent.
And now you're changing your tack...which is interesting. Before it was "why did you say Someone knew"? When I show you that's not what I said, you feel the need to counter with "But he never said or implied that hecould. So why say this [know] at all?" Which I'd already explained in my answering post (and repeated right before this one, in case you'd honestly missed it). Take the bridge example. If Johnny'd said "I KNOW this bridge is safe," Sally'd be a worrywart to argue. But since Someone made it clear that it was a belief, not absolute knowledge, my use of the word is appropriate.
Basically, I've been looking at your posts as fairly "on my side" -- but now I'm wondering at your pushing of an issue that no one else is pushing while still giving the appearance of defending me.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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I "specified why exactly" when I placed my vote (post 306) and nothing's changed from my perspective.
I still find the blue text to be questionable. I thought that you might be gently hinting that you were SaberKitty...but you wound up claiming PolarBoy instead -- a player, I'll point out, who is no longer active enough to be considered "well-known" (a specification Dragon Phoenix placed in the opening post for non-attendees) by anyone but oldtimers. I think the name may have been selected specificallybecausehe was unlikely to actually be in the game/counter-claimed but could still be argued as being well-known due to his former status. Back to the color -- you claimed that you were using the steelblue because you have an "obsession" with the color and "usually" post in online forums with it. If you can link me to evidence that you actuallydopost that way in most places, I'd consider moving my vote.
Basically: I think you've acted scummily. At worst, we lynch a townie. At best, we lynch scum.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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No way. I'd never vote myself unless I was absolutely sure the player was innocent (by virtue of me being a sane cop or a dead sane cop having investigated them...or something like that) and that their survival was more important to the game than mine.Someone wrote:MeMe, I ask you this. If you were in my place, and you weresurethat somebody was innocent (without actually knowing it, of course), would you at least consider voting yourself?
Huh. That blows that theory. For now I'll move off you.Nox wrote:Satisfied?
unvote: Nox
vote: SaberKittyRemember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Because I don't understand/agree with the case against Stoofer (which I've listed as "Leo's guts" and "tss's bandwagon list" -- if there's something better, I'm all ears), but SaberKitty's earlier attempt to call attention to lurkers taken with her current statusasa lurker Idounderstand.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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tss -- that whole analysis confuses me. What I'm basically getting out of it is "everyone's kind of suspicious, but I believe MeMe -- who's also suspicious."
I'm still missing where the "two more scum to bag tomorrow" comment is explained. Specifically: who are these two scum if Kitty had been a baddie? Who are they now that we know she wasn't? And what did you mean by "more" when, at that point, we'd yet to baganyscum?Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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CA -- why "follow" Leonidas? We now know that there was no investigation possible in his accusation of Stoofer, so it doesn't make sense to treat him like a cop. It's one thing to say that Axel's posts look scummy for whatever reason, but to vote him purely on Leo's say-so looks opportunistic to me.
I also see the points against Axel, but am uneasy about the "and ifheis..." stuff (obviously). It also doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me for scum to jump out there with a wordy case against one player at this point. Basically, the game's going their way right now...why say "look at me" before even seeing if it's necessary? This could be just bad play; but it'd actually qualify ashorribleplay if Axel's scum. I've just come off a game where we were mafia together and he was careful and smart there. Doesn't mean he can't make a mistake here -- but, like I said, this would be a doozy for scum. That said, I find his points against Lee rather petty regardless of his alignment.
At this point I lean toward CA. His attempt to implicate people for "protecting" the SK was nonsensical. But there are still four players yet to check in today and, as it's getting rather necessary that we nail scum soon, I'd like to hear from everyone before we get too far in the voting.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Interesting theory about Leo's role, CA. But we had two deaths last night. Are you suggesting that one of them was the work of a vigilante? And if Leo were a blocker who assumed he was successful Night 1, why would he switch targets Night 2?
Still doesn't make me want to start everything with "given CA isn't scum," but it's better than what looked like a blind follow.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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It looks like EYNH hasn't posted anywhere since August 6. Could he get a prod?
Also, I was thinking that PB had claimed that he's only allowed to post once a day and CA's pressuring him to post quickly was weird. But looking closely at his one post yesterday, it appears that he was planning not to drop acid tonight so that he could discuss strategy (though the wording is pretty confusing...so I'm not completely sure I'm right).
Anyway, I join with CA in requesting that PB tells us what he's got.PeaceBringer wrote:The info is very lose. I prefer not to take a trip on this night and sort out with folks what to present of images. The clue I got last night was a series of words/images some not connected to the previous. So I don't know what to make or how to help. I haven't seen anything of the day that makes me go, hmm follow that line of reasoning. So we shall see you next day if I live but I have a feeling the info is more confusing then anything.
My thought is if alive we can sort it out and if I die at least I won't confuse anyone.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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If PeaceBringer uses his ability, he can't contribute the following day. If he's town, that's bad -- especially if his visions are useless. I think he should tell us what he saw before deciding whether or not he should use it or even whether we think he's telling the truth.
Basically, it doesn't make any sense to me for DP to restrict a player for using an ability to the degree that PeaceBringer claims to be restricted unless the ability is exceptionally strong.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Um...Vesuvan wrote:So are you trying to say that we should metagame against the possibility of our mod putting a weak ability with a restriction in a game?yeah. But rather than the "metagame" label you put on it (which, for the record, I believe would be just fine if that's what it was, but it's not), I call it "deciding whether a claim rings true." Are you saying that I've no right to post my opinion on what I believe to be plausible? Regardless, your comments seem to indicate that you believe PeaceBringer's claimed ability to be "weak." Now that I've heard his trip, I'd have to disagree...though Iwouldlike to hear mikehart's reaction to it as that might change my mind.
Are you saying that correct play would be to completely ignore the fact that deathscene information can be useful in figuring out the killers? Or are you just trying to capitalize on the fact that one of my guesses has been proven wrong and the other looks likely to be wrong as well? If I were a suspicious person, I'd wonder if you were trying to bully me away from making further guesses... If that is what you're attempting, it's just too bad for you that 1) failure never was a strong deterrent for me and 2) being dissuaded just makes me wonder if I'm heading in a sensitive direction.Vesuvan wrote:Then we get to CA's claim and the (intentional?) misdirection you have been playing throughout the game in regard to assigning kills to specific people.
The fact that we had a role name cop in the game indicates, to me anyway, that scum/kill methods might be guessable by name alone. DP certainly seems to agree, as he called Hy's kill method:
-- and, though I don't know Hy, I'm assuming that regular GLers can confirm this as a well-known Hy thing. If they can, I think we should have MORE guessing about which roles might fit with which kills rather than pretending that trying to use mod-given information to make educated guesses could be anything but potentially helpful.Dragon Phoenix wrote:famous two-fingered Hy-original salute
That said, the eyes-out kill was the work of anSK...so how could your accusation that I've been providing "(intentional?) misdirection" apply tothat?Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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HAH!
Pull up all of Axelrod's posts alone and something very interesting happens! You see the "DOC" post he quotes above...and directly preceding it (though it was more than 24 hours prior and separated by several posts by others) you'll see this one...
Silly, sloppy boy.Axelrod wrote:Couldn't they both be mafia?Obviously, bandwagoning is just one way to catch a scum, and on Day one it's far from reliable.PBug has been just as bad as Someone, however, and I wouldn't be adverse to throwing a vote that way, although I will refrain at the moment.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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Well crap, Fuldu. I was sloppy and I was hoping that my stupid mistake wouldn't be caught out.
Explanation: look at my two posts -- one right after the other. What happened was I posted before reading my PMs and said that I was interested in what Leo had to share. Once I read my PMs, I saw that I'd been blocked and felt as though my first post would look really weird to Leo since why would I be asking him to share information from the prior night when I knew the information he had since I was the one he blocked (or so I thought)?
As you said, I'm smart enough not to say it for no reason -- but there was a reason and it was that myfirstpost was the mistake, not my second. Anyway. Dumb. But that's all there is too it.
One thing I've been wondering and I've no reason not to ask now...
CA: As Nox said, I didn't claim. What role did youthinkI was claiming?
Another question...
Leo: Your Stoofer "catch" wasn't because you're a cop and, unless the game has two blockers (um....) you're not one of them either. So...what's with the confidence and "acceptance by silence" of CA's giving you the role of blocker?
I'm interested in what is up with Leonidas...and why CA is so eager to leap on me (who he's outing as mith and, according to prior comments he believes to be a pro-town power role) and turn his back on Leo (who he was worshipping yesterday). I'm wondering if there's some Shadow protection going on in his behavior today -- he joined the opposing bandwagon and now seems more than willing to out me and hop on the possibility of suspicion in my direction without waiting for my explanation.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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The obvious reason for Axelrod to tell roland to keep quiet is that Loudmouth, CA, and I had already said we thought mith would be town and Vesuvan had said that whatever mith is, he's sure to be powerful and that roland shouldn't share any information about him.
Basically, if Axel pressed for information on mith's identity when four others had shared opinions that mith's either town or shouldn't be exposed at the moment, he'd look like a digger. Best for scum to agree rather than to try to extract information that others are saying is best left alone.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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I earlier said that I was leaning toward you, Shadow. Since then, you've explained your actions as being about self-preservation rather than actually trying to lynch anyone you thought was scummy, which only added to my feelings that you're a good choice.
Don't be deceived that, just because two people are having a discussion that doesn't feature you as a topic, you've been forgotten.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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And, for the record, if Leo's scum I'd guess CA as being with him.
He followed him around like a puppy...when Fuldu accused him, he positioned himself to join that bandwagon...now that Shadow has OMGUSed me he's brave enough to vote me instead.
If he were on board with Fuldu's theory (which he seemed to be eager to adopt earlier), he'd be votingwithFuldu.
That said, I like the Shadow vote better than CA or Leo...and Fuldu's 1) gotta be a blocker and 2) his actions look more townish than not.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Translation of that pronoun-riddled section:MeMe wrote:He followed him around like a puppy...when Fuldu accused him, he positioned himself to join that bandwagon...now that Shadow has OMGUSed me he's brave enough to vote me instead.
CA followed Leo around like a puppy...when Fuldu accused Leo, CA positioned himself to join that bandwagon...now that Shadow has OMGUSed me CA's brave enough to vote me instead.
Sorry.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Gah.
I'll claim now before you all go too far down this road. Yes, I'm mith. I avoided confirming because I'm on record (in my posts to roland) with what I "thought" mith's abilities could entail.
I could take over the ability of one pro-town night-killed role -- I chose roland (all before him were townies). I received his choices/results for nights 1-3 and was blocked night 4.
Fuldu -- I know your role, shall I expose it?
I can confirm the role name of one other player as being what (s)he's claimed.
The other result I have is on myself, so that doesn't do much good.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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And another thing: this sentence really gets on my nerves...
Declaring that a dead cop would've wanted it this way is both cheap and demonstrably untrue. If roland wanted me lynched, he'd have kept voting me.Commodore Amazing wrote:I think rolandofthewhite would have wanted us all to lynch MeMe.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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Not a problem...though I'm wondering at the "why" of the request.Someone wrote:@ MeMe, Can you explain to us exactly how your role works? Now that you have used it, it shouldn't be a problem.
I had 24 hours from the time stamp on the morning scene to PM DP if I wanted to take over the abilities and information of any pro-town player killed the night before -- extended time frame would be given if I warned him in advance of absence (though this was unnecessary). I PM'd him less than 10 minutes after seeing roland's role.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza-
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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MeMe Post or Perish
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