Onto the actual game, good playerlist minus crypto because he sucks. Llarmable is town. Ythill is town. Fate is probably town too, the wagon on him for a lack of activity is idiotic, he's more likely to be active early game as scum. Not seeing the case on Eli at all, browsed through a few of her games and she voted no one in a previous town game of hers thus voting no one if anything is a minor town-tell for her. Ghostwriter scum is something I do agree with though.
Flash mafia 3 (town wins)
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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DGB and Ythill wtf why out my role so quickly, I don't like instant claiming as miller.
Onto the actual game, good playerlist minus crypto because he sucks. Llarmable is town. Ythill is town. Fate is probably town too, the wagon on him for a lack of activity is idiotic, he's more likely to be active early game as scum. Not seeing the case on Eli at all, browsed through a few of her games and she voted no one in a previous town game of hers thus voting no one if anything is a minor town-tell for her. Ghostwriter scum is something I do agree with though.
Vote: Ghostwriter.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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Farside, sure, I'll pull up links of Fates love of being mafia and increased activity over town later when I have time, you state you currently have two town reads can you explain your reluctance in outing them?
Ythill, I often get detention at the pre-school I attend though what in particular about my nature do you find to be rebelious or scummy. Still not seeing it on Eli, her actions certaintly aren't pro-town but I don't read them as scummy.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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Ythill, I believe the suspicions were relatively easy to work out though if there's more to them feel free to elaborate on them for me.
Farside, yes, I believe providing town-reads increases the pool of information that we have which is optimal considering the fact that at the current moment the wealth of knowledge mafia have would surpass ours by far as well as providing information that can be used to attain a stronger read of you. Properly understanding someonse reasons behind their reluctance in outting particular reads also increases the ability to read the player. Although I can understand AGOTIs point and you are indeed contradicting yourself as my question was leading towards you outting them I find your stubborness to be one of your strongest town-tells.
Town: Ythill, LLarmable, Farside, Prozac, Fate.
Scum: Ghost-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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farside22 wrote:You have a link for him doing that as scum?
Finally got a chance to grab them, in Aggresive Mind Games he was scum and spammed the entire thread early game. In Might of Mordor and Walking Dead Mafia he started the game as town and was late to the game thus didn't spam the thread early game.-
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Porochaz, I read your questioning of Tajos town-read on you rather than just accepting it as a town-tell, mafia actually want to be read as town therefore have no reason to continue to draw attention towards them after attaining it.
Farside, I'm going to assume you mean the hydra I used in Round Table, if so I was the much more active head of it (R). I have a lot of meta on Fate because I was/am part of Team Mafia and the other two games were games I followed partially while trying to get back into the swing of forum mafia. I didn't expect you to be a physic though I thought it was common knowledge that my question was going to be leading towards outting them.-
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GhostWriter wrote:Also, since I found this on accident the first time:@Mod: Could you send out a PM to Fate and Crypto with the link to the game, in case they don't know.
This was something I also noticed (Only about Crypto though) and PM'ed the mod about, hopefully it should be sorted out soon.
Farside, yes, I followed the team mafia game because I was part of it. One of the alternate games I followed because RedCoyote was in and I was follow quite a few of his games, the most notable being Rusty Guillotine Mafia which was an amazing read. The other I read because I was trying to get the hang of theme games, I also followed Jurrasic park mafia for that reason as well which ended dissapointingly.
Llarmable, my town-read on Fate has nothing to do with him being wagoned or the people on his wagon. My town-read on him stems from the fact that I believe his activity early game as scum would be huge whereas I've seen him start the game late as town multiple times ie. The games I provided in my prior post.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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Ythill, that's not true at all, my posts may entail an element of defence but that's purely because I'm getting voted. I've been scumhunting throughout the whole of the game thus the town-reads I have aquired. Though I don't have any strong scum reads at the moment, just a weaker one on Ghost that I'm doubting to a degree right now. My comment about pre-school detention was merely a joke and if I was attempting to diffuse the situation why would I follow that up with questioning what in particular you found to be rebelious or scummy.
Crypto is town, Fate, Ythill and Prozac are still town. Farside is town, she has a tendancy to ask for meta on players as town rather than mafia though I'll have to read into a few more of her games to make sure. Slightly less certain on my town-read of Llarmable at the moment though.-
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Farside, perhaps spamming is the wrong word because he didn't chuck a Ythan in that game but his activity early in the game was incredibly superiror to this game.
Ythill, the fact that it's still early game doesn't mean that it's impossible for those lynches to go through without much activity from the player, [Redacted] is proof of this. Furthermore I prefer pressure and 'wagons' to be on players that I actually believe are likely to be scum, not players that I don't.
Elibereth, there's a particular reason why crypto and I'm unsure if I can link it though you can find it yourself quite easily.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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The last page and a half has increased the strength of my scum-read on Ghost, he's attempting to provide information and content but none of it is productive or all that relevant at all.
Tajo, let me get this right, you agree with a great deal of my reads and reasoning behind them however you believe I'm mafia because I'm struggling to attain multiple scum-reads while other players themselves have stated they havea an exceeding number of town-reads in comparison to scum-reads. I'm also not at L-1, it's 8 to lynch not 6 the previous vote count is incorrect.-
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populartajo wrote:wait, no? besides prozac, i disagree with a lot of your reads. thats exactly whats bothering me about you, it seems you are too scared to make enemies calling people town for nulltells and recently pursuing the GW tangent after being called on it.
None of this post makes any sense whatsoever, in Post #32 you state you hold a town-read on Ythill, Llaramable, Prozacs and *suprise* me while also having a scum-read on Ghost therefore you agreed with my earlier reads and actually found my defence of Fate as a town-tell however you seem to be content to call it the opposite right now. Furthermore I didn't "recently pursue the GW tangent" I've had my vote on him and stated suspicion of him since my opening post.
Ellibereth wrote:Fate, Regfan is all LOLFATEMETAISACTIVEEARLY instead of LOLIFFATEWASSCUMQTANDSHITMEANTHEWOULDKNOWABOUTGAME and later is all BUTIKNEWCRYPTODIDN'TFINDTOPICBUTDIDN'TNOTICEFATE.
The arguments proposed for joining and pushing the Fatewagon from other people included "He's not active and posting here therefore mafia", I explained why that was completely bullshit via showing meta examples and showed that his activity is likely to be HIGH as scum early game therefore the lack of activity was a town-tell. I'm done with playing coy, read the sign up thread and you'll see the reason that I specifically asked about Crypto.
farside22 wrote:That said I had been questioning Regfan before and increasingly found him scummier and scummier. Nothing has changed that. Your non-post is null if both regfan and GW both claim you spam as scum......unless they are lying. Are you saying they are lying?
The questions you've been asking me all involve spam level and previous meta with Fate, not once have you attempted to ask me about my current reads or thoughts. Essentially you're attempting to direct your line of questioning in a manner which inevitably will lead with you continuing your suspicion for me. You asked me about which head of Round Table Mafia I was (Which just recently finished so should give you good meta on me as well as should be something that you remember) and then continue pushing on me for actions that I also performed in Round Table.
Fate, Ythill, Prozacs and Crypto are obvious as fuck town. Leaning town on Elibereth, Parabollocks and Llarmable (Albeit weak) at the moment. My town-read on Farside is decreasing rapidly however I'm nowhere near comfortable voting her, Ghost and Tajo are much better lynches. I need more content from DGB,
Untrod Tripod and a girl on the internet though I don't see AGOTI being scum with Farside given their earlier interactions.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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[quote="populartajo""]so at one point on the game you didnt have scum suspects which was precisely my point of you playing it safe and clearing influential people for nulltells.[/quote]
This isn't true at all, again as I've said read my very first fucking post and you'll see that I suspected GW then, yes there was a point in the game that my read on him decreased in strength however his recent postings have solidified it. I'll rephrase though, you stated you had a town-read on me earlier when I had defended Fate, what was this town-read based upon? Alright, lets make this easier, with the exception of difference in reasoning for our reads on Fate and to a degree Farside which of our reads reasoning are different?
Farside, I mentioned my reads in my previous post, if you actually suspected me you would be spending time to read my posts properly however it seems you're skimming because you haven't even attempted to respond to my response to your meta questioning. You seem to avoiding any response to me and you state that I was your strongest Fos previously however you've progressed onto saying you think Fate is mafia and GW is confirmed mafia while avoiding stating the reasoning behind the change of opinion or reduction of strength of your read on me.
Although I don't believe Farside has responded well to the pressure or bandwagon which has formed against her I still don't find her anywhere near as scummy as Ghost who is posting elsewhere while attempting to lurk this day phase out. On an unrelated note, I'm leaning strongly towards Parabollocks being town this game.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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Yes Farside, you've read my previous post incorrectly. I do have a town-read on Fate and it hasn't done anything but increase in strength as the day has progressed, what I was asking you is why you've ignored/skimmed a great deal of my posts and avoided replying to them while also stating that something is 'off' about my posts.
With that said I believe Farsides role-claim and votes need to continue moving to GW who seems content to question her claim but ignore the wagon against him as well as refraining from stating any reads elsewhere.
The fact that Tajo went through the list to look for roleblocker and then states that he hasn't founded it in the list reads as a dumb-tell and means I'm probably wrong about him. Oh and this game needs more crypto.-
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Was hoping to be able to devote more time to this game today however the hammer has hindered that greatly and I want to make sure I get my reads out before night phase begins. I have relatively strong town-reads on Fate, Prozac, Ythill, Tajo, Crypto and Elibereth though the town-read on Elibereth decreases massively in strength on the off chance Ghost flips town and weaker town reads on Parabollcks and Llarmable.
Not exactly sure what to make of Untrods lack of activity in this particular game while posting elsewhere but taking a look at his game record statistics it's probable that he has a lot less interest in the game as scum, want to hear a lot more from Amrum though. I also want to hear a lot more from AGOTI, DGB as well and I'm still unsure what to make of Farside though I would lean slightly town due to her claim and attitude about her claim.-
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Alright, I don't see any particular reason why Fate would attempt to claim mason to save Llarmable as scum at all, he'd buss the fuck out of him, claim he called it from day one and coast. With that said holy motherfucking shit was that "Loldistancingeachother" gambit fucking stupid, I was considering hammering Llarmable two to three times and if it wasn't for his promise of more content I would have.
What bothers me though is this: For Llarmable to be town it would mean that there's essentially a confirmed doctor in the setup, two masons and a roleblocker, this alone seems like an incredible amount of strength/power especially with likely inclusion of multiple other power roles.
Llarmable, lets go through your this shit:
Scumtell #1; If you had read a greater deal of my games you'd notice that I use run on sentences in every game I'm in regardless of allignment, the only reason that it's different in PYP was because I replaced in and spent hours working on my replace in post. If you'd have read my follow up posts in that game you'd have seen multiple run-on-sentences as well.
Scumtell #2 and #3; I've been pondering a shitload which is highly evident by me stating that I was struggling to find strong scum-reads earlier in the game, I took a short break stepped back and rethought multiple reads/events. Similar to Buffy Mafia my town-read strengths are substancially stronger than my scum-reads. Heck if you'd have read any of my scum-games you'd have noticed that I loveee bussing and distancing, I'm almost addicted to it so I'm unsure how you can even attempt to suggest otherwise furthermore it should be obvious enough the reasoning behind the lack of recent interaction with Tajo is because I think he's illogical as fuck town and I don't want to get into a repeat of a 10 page argument like I previously did with Mastin in an alternate game.
Porochaz, does this mean that your suspicions of Eli has decreased of merely that your suspicions of Llarmable has overtaken hers? On an unrelated note, fuck you crypto, one of the primary reasons I joined this game was because you were in it.
Farside, Crypto, Fate, Llarmable and Tajo are town as fuck. End of. Need to re-read this again later because a few of my reads were based around Llarmablescum but right now leaning heavily towards Amrum being mafia.
Vote: Amrum-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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Llarmable, I need to a lot more reading but leaning towards probable partners being Porochaz and Parabollocks. She avoids Porochaz, states she has a town-read on him despite his lack of content, then suggests he's mafia again later yet never throws too much attention towards him or questions him.
Her 'Para is scumscumscum', 'DBG is null leaning scum' while saying 'Unlikely they're mafia together' and then not exactly pushing her scumscumscum read and changing to one of her town-reads honestly looks like attempted distancing.-
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You've got to be fucking kidding me, Farside roleblocked me and I'm honestly unsure what to make of the lack of deaths two nights in a row. Considering the situation I may as well outright claim and suggest a mass-claim occur today as well.
I'm a tracker, tracked Farside to Llarmable N1, N2 I tried tracking Porochaz but no go result, thought it might have been a mod mistake but it seems it's not. I did breadcrumb multiple times and be quite frank I thought it was obvious enough that I was an investigative role that I was considering outright claiming at the end of yesterday.
In Post #501 I asked her to out her roleblock target because I knew she had visited Llarmable and figured her claiming to have blocked anyone else would have been confirmation that she was mafia and in Post #594 I stated I was "absolutely certain that Farside did role block him". In Post #834 I stated "there's essentially a confirmed doctor in the setup, two masons and a roleblocker, this alone seems like an incredible amount of strength/power especially with likely inclusion of multiple other power roles" because knew that it would mean inclusion of a tracker, roleblocker, two masons and a doctor.
I still think the final mafia are inside [AGOTI, Zoraster and Porchaz] and the interactions between Amrum and Zoraster/Parabollocks slot are odd as fuck.
Vote: Zoraster-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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Farside how about you fucking read my posts instead of playing like a complete moron. You complain about Fates playstyle being "Spammy" but I'd take his spammy playstyle over your complete inability to read posts any day.
1. With 14 players standard scum-team size is 3-4 as mentioned:Regfan wrote:I'll be back later today to post the rest of my thoughts but Farside needs to out who she roleblocked instantly and Llarmable a single scum-team of three to four players is likely here.
2. The town-read I had on him reduced massively throughout day two and his interactions with Amrum were extremely suspicious as was his lack of voting for her throughout yesterday, mentioned and elaborated on here:Regfan wrote:Scum Reads (Strongest to weakest):Llarmable, Amrum, Porochaz.
13. Porochaz, although I had a strongish town-read on him earlier it's disappeared now. During day one he let his suspicions and thoughts of Eli be known however instantly upon entering day two he states that Llarmable would be a good lynch and this is before it was announced that he was role-blocked, it reads as an attempt to attain some form of town-cred.Regfan wrote:I need to a lot more reading but leaning towards probable partners being Porochaz and Parabollocks. She avoids Porochaz, states she has a town-read on him despite his lack of content, then suggests he's mafia again later yet never throws too much attention towards him or questions him.-
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I tracked you because it's a guaranteed relatively useful result. The odds of tracking/catching a visit elsewhere is minimal and the odds of catching the mafia that is submitting the kill was 1/12.
If by some chance you are a mafia goon and I track you visiting no one it confirms you are mafia 100%. If I track you to a player that you claim to have a town-read on the likelihood that you're a mafia roleblocker is massive and if I track you to someone that I believe you would roleblock as town I reaffirm my town-read on you.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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Honestly, mass-claim at this point in the game could create an autowin scenario which is key. Put it this way, current playerlist is; Fate, DGB, Ellibereth, Llamarble, Mastin, Springlullaby, Porochaz, Farside, Shaft.ed, Agoti, Regfan, Zoraster. Everyone should agree that masons are legitimate and the odds of roleblocker being legitimate is massive so it's safe to remove them from the suspect list at the moment.
This turns the suspect list into nine players being (DGB, Elibereth, Mastin, Springlullaby, Porochaz, Shaft.ed, Agoti, Regfan, Zoraster). There is essentially a guaranteed doctor in the game at this point so we can safely remove another player from the suspect list leaving eight players. If the doctor saved someone else that's in the suspect list it means there will be seven unclears only with three mslynches being highly likely setting us up for a great chance to win.-
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farside22 wrote:You didn't find me scummy. You didn't find the claim scummy. So you followed me for information. That sounds more like info for scum then town there buddy. This song sounds soooooo much reminds me of Llamafluff from American Gods I feel like going in there and quoting it things he said and comparing.
Think about it for half a fucking second. I know for a fact that tracking you provides me with information, information leads towards me either reaffirming my read on you or confirming you as mafia which is much more profitable then tracking elsewhere which would be tracking into a 1/12 shot of hitting the shooting mafia. Secondly, there's no reason for mafia to track a roleblocker claim because it gives them NO information whatsoever other than who the roleblocker suspects which would be gained from just questioning them about their reads.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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I had roughly five town-reads at the end of day one, give or take one or two all differing in strength.
Shafted is town solely because he is filling Cryptos spot, the fact that Crypto was unaware that game had started and that there was this thread reads as a strong as fuck town-tell, furthermore he has a massive tendency to put more effort in when mafia and his attitude here resembles his town-play in multiple other games.
Tajo is town for multiple reasons and to be quite frank I want Fate to elaborate into why he thinks Tajo is scum. Tajos reaction to your claim not being in the setup read as a geninue town thought process, as mafia he would have known that your role was in-fact in the setup and therefore wouldn't have attempted to discredit it for those reasons and the manner in which it was said doesn't seem forced/faked. His aggression and attitude towards the mason claims and his continual doubting of them reads as idiotic town more than anything else although I do understand there's a slight logical fallacy in there being the "Too scummy to be scum".-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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shaft.ed wrote:why? whats the benefit of outright claiming at the end of yesterday?
I was going to split the remaining suspects into two pools and have farside roleblock pool A and I track someone in pool B. It would have forced mafia to decide whether they wanted to risk being role-blocked or caught via tracking and would have guaranteed that I wouldn't have been roleblocked myself.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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farside22 wrote: The last game we were in together he used meta to clear me when I was scum. I would think someone who had read a player as town with meta and flipped scum would be more wary of meta.
Yeah no, this didn't happen. There was a point in the game where I considered you town but that was due to suspected Maxous and Twistedspoon to be mafia. As the game progressed and Maxous flipped town I didn't have any form of strong town-read on you and infact voted you, the sole reason I didn't suspect you at the very end of the game was because Twistedspoons gambit was something I was fooled by.-
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farside22 wrote:That was after you cleared me with the meta. This game all you do is say crytpo is town because meta as scum would have him posting more. That is not a town tell, that is meta tell and says nothing about how he has played in this game to = town.
I never cleared you over meta, considering I fucking voted you in that game that much should be obvious so stop attempting to create up reasons to vote me. Crypto not posting more isn't the sole reason that I believe he's town, way to fucking misrepresent me, seriously I'm growing tired of your complete inability to read the entirety of someone elses posts. Mafia know the game has started because mafia have a quick topic, they also know where the game is located, the fact that Crypto knew neither of these makes him incredibly likely town.
I'm heading to bed but I need to re-read this game again in the morning though nothing thus far has changed my mind over Fate, Llarmable, Farside, Mastin, Elibereth and Shafted being town.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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I'd be more than willing to.
At the time that was posted I thought the roleblock on Llarmable prevented the night-kill and thus LLarmable was mafia meaning I thought Porchaz's vote on him was an opportunistic attempt at gaining and attaining town-cred by voting his partner that was roleblocked. Since LLarmable however is a mason and not mafia that entire point becomes irrelevant and moot though his lack of suggesting that Eli should be lynched or mafia on day two despite his almost near-insistence that she was on D1 reads as inconsistent and off.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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Llarmable, your thoughts on mass-claiming in this position? The way I view it is if doctor has saved a player already outside of the clears on one of the nights we'll have it down to seven suspects with him claiming which is perfect. Also, your reads on Zoraster, Porochaz, AGOTI and Springlullaby would be appreciated.
Farside, this was the final thing you said about me yesterday was this:
farside22 wrote:Llama I'm expecting you to finish and explain your scum read because after Regfan's last post I'm finding it increasely hard to believe he's scum. His logic and meta reasoning is something that I found interesting. I do have one concern but I'll worry about that later.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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farside22 wrote:@Regfan: Then why did you say at the start of the game that I roleblocked you? Would you not think that scum may have roleblocked you?
I don't see nor have I ever seen two roleblockers in the same setup, it leads towards major problems. Furthermore a scum roleblocker doesn't make much sense considering the only roles they would be able to block would be doctor and tracker. There's minimal point having scum roleblock a doctor due it being optimal for them to outright kill them and addition of a scum roleblocker against a tracker is actually a hinderance for mafia as it leads towards potential of them being caught.
Now I'm really going to bed, going to be fucked for golf in the morning.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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Yeah, I'm not a fan of this DGB wagon. Although she's playing differently to her normal town and scum meta I really don't see her actions being her as scum. She wouldn't hold of lynching Amrum just to have Amrum fake claim something as dumb as 1-shot vig.
Farside and Shafted, you should join me on Zoraster.-
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Amrums claim was terribad due to what shafted said along with the fact that she stated she wasn't that role prior to her claim. After D1 one occurred I'm sure it would have been mentioned in the QT that she's likely to be run up at some point or another and I really do not see DGB letting her claim that.
There really needs to be more votes on Zoraster. His suspicion thrown towards Farside and his change of vote without explaining his change of stance as well as his avoidance of discussing the double no-death is scummy as fuck.
Llamarble wrote:This reminds me a lot of how you talked about the Fate wagon early on. Dubious meta-ey stuff. Can you give me a you-town-doing-this example?
Sure, just look into any of my town games. If you want specific examples to read into look at my attitude and thoughts about Scumhunters claim in 00's Band Mafia, my thoughts on Gorillas opening post in Desert Mafia and my read on Mastins illogical tunnel vision in Mini 1180. If you want any more examples or them deeper explained I'd be willing to go into it, just ask.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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Not sold on Zoraster being town from that reaction, I'd have expected him to count the votes on him and notice it's not a hammer as town. Starting to see the DGB case but not going to lie, still prefer a Zoraster lynch. Also, Mastin, where's your catch up post and thoughts?
I still believe doctor claiming and outting their saves is optimal, it provides us with a wealth of information and forces mafia to shoot them tonight nearly allowing tracker, roleblocker and masons to live deeper into the game where they're much more effective.-
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Yeah, fairly sure he's flipping scum. Still think Porochaz or Agoti is likely partner with an outside chance of it being Mastin or Spring, although I had town-reads on their predecessors their complete lack of content is worrying.
Llarmable, Fate, Farside, Elibereth and Shafted are sure-fire town and VP makes me feel a lot better about DBGs slot and am leaning town on it again.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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The continued lack of night deaths is confusing to say the least, at this point mass-claiming is optimal however Farside should out who she roleblocked first.
I tracked Porochaz and he visited no one therefore if Farside didn't roleblock him and my assumption of three scum in a fourteen player game is correct he's town. Tracking Farside would have been meaningless and a waste of a track because with this likely being one mafia remaining Farside-scum would have shot me in order to prevent herself becoming confirmed scum. Also fuck you Fate, you didn't get two in a row, I at least get partial credit for the Zoraster lynch.
I'll refrain from voting until Farside has outted her results and a mass-claim has occured.-
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springlullaby wrote:I'd like Reg to explain to me why he wants us to massclaim because I don't see the advantage to it, at all. Also, your explanation about why you didn't track Farside smells bad, why would you want to the possibility of confirming two townies (yourself and Farside to an extent), on the of chance Farside isn't scum? If Farside was scum she would have killed you off anyway, no? So why justify you choice based on that factor? Looks like bullshit to me.FOS Reg
1. I don't believe anything is up in a setup mechanic sense because inclusion of janitor insinuates that night kills should be occurring so mafia have something to hide.
2. Mass-claiming is optimal because right now we have ten people alive, assuming we consider Farside and the two masons as conftown which I do a the moment we have seven suspects. If the doctor claims they'll be clear due to them being the prevention of the night-kills instantly reducing it down to six suspects and if they have saved someone that isn't Fate, Llarmable or Farside they themselves can reduce the suspect pool down to five or four. If the setup is three scum which is likely then we currently have three mslynches and a lylo lynch to nail the final mafia. This means we have the means and opportunity to deal with four out of the five or six suspects, with tracking and roleblocking we can reduce that even more and create unpreventable automatic win scenario.
3. There's only two reasons to track Farside 1) To clear her 2) To clear myself, I think that's undeniable. Following the logic that Farside-scum has to shoot me to have any chance of winning this game there are two occurrences that happen if Farside is scum A) I die and my report is meaningless B) Doctor saves me and I confirm her therefore no new information is attained in 'clearing her' by tracking her. As for clearing myself I didn't believe it necessary, I believe the sole fact that I led and pushed the Zoraster lynch would make it obvious enough that I'm town therefore my efforts and usage of my track would be best used tracking potential future mslynches to clear them.-
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springlullaby wrote:Broken logic in bolded red. You say that you think there is 3 scums remaining. Following your self stated assumption, it logically follows that you would think that if Farside is scum, she must be the last one and therefore the one who makes the kill. Hence if you had tracked her, you would have seen her do the killing.
Now, in the perspective of gambitting scum you, I think the quote in green is you trying to cheek town with wifom and daring anyone to point that out. Well, it's wifom. What do you say? I'm giving you two more posts to convince me not to vote you.
1. I never said there's three scum remaining, I said I'm assuming three scum in the setup therefore one scum remaining, this means yes, I would be tracking whoever is final scum to the kill.
2. No kill occurring and the doctor claiming to save me increases the likelihood that Farside is scum which is information gained from not tracking her rendering the usefulness of tracking her in the first place. No kill occurring and doctor claiming to have saved me then would mean two means two things, A) That the person I tracked to a no-visit is likely town and clear and B) That I have another nights worth of tracking tonight in which I can clear/confirm Farside if needed.
3. It's not WIFOM at all and you would be idiotic to attempt to shrug it of as that. With no night kills occurring, claimed confirmed masons and a roleblocker in the setup with the addition of a doctor bussing would be sub-optimal and stupid as it would result in corning yourself into a small suspect pool.-
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shaft.ed wrote:Regfan, coming in here pushing for a massclaim when you yourself passed up the opportunity to be confirmed town in order to retrack poro is hella fishy.
It's post like this which actually aggravate me, you haven't attempted to state what part of mass-claiming is bad despite me putting forward overwhelming evidence showing that it's actually very optimal to do so. Instead you're attempting to instead pass it of and call it suspicious.-
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shaft.ed wrote:I've checked the flash multiple times and haven't seen anything about non-killing mafia factions. If others could check that'd be great. If it can exist, that might explain the 14th player
The definition of a mafia janitor in the flash indicates that it can only be used in conjunction with a night-kill therefore the addition of the role proves that mafia do indeed have a night kill. The 14th player was purely added to skip the massive queues in mini normal/mini theme and jump straight into large games I believe.-
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shaft.ed wrote:That said, I think a massclaim should be left up to the Doctor. They have enough information to know how many people they have cleared.
Way I see it is this. If worst case scenario has occurred and the doctor has only saved clears then we can assue that Farside/Masons/Doc are clear/town we have 6 suspects and three/four lynches to nail them with, lets call them A, B, C, D, E, F, for the sake of simplicity I'll call myself A, Farside X and doctor Y.
Day 4:Unclears remaining: A, B, C, D, E, F.
Lynch B.
Night 4:Unclears remaining: A, C, D, E, F.
Y on X. X roleblocks C. A tracks D. Optimal scum play would be to shoot Y allowing them a chance to shoot X the following night.
N4i. If a kill occurs C is cleared.
N4ii. If kill doesn't occur then another ML is gained and C is lynched.
N4iii.If a kill occurs and D no visited D is clear.
N4iv.If a kill occurs and D visited the kill D is confirmed mafia.
Day 5:Unclears remaining: A, E, F.
If N4ii, C lynched. If N4iv, D lynched. If N4i or N4iii, A is lynched and C/D are cleared.
Night 5:Unclears remaining: E, F.
X on E. If a kill occurs then E is clear and F is confirmed mafia. If no kill occurs town lynch E, X roleblocks F that night and they lynch him the following day.-
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VP Baltar wrote:Could be one or two scum left depending on PR balance. You seem awfully certain. Further, I don't see how massclaim puts us in "automatic win" when any number of roles could be scum or town. In other words, evenifyou confirm a role action, it doesn't make you town. Now, juxtapose that with having like four lynches left before lylo and you should be able to easily see why I think not claiming gives a greater opportunity to lynch scum. You're also giving PRs more opportunities to use their roles and catch scum read handed. Seems pretty simple to me.
1. I'm relatively certain of it being one due to the last Flash Mafia having three mafia and ending in a clean sweep, that along with the fact that 10-4 wouldn't be balanced even if there were an extreme amount of power-roles.
2. I have pointed how how it is automatic win. If there's one scum remaining that automatically clears Fate and Llarmable, furthermore since it's claimed that Llamarble was roleblocked N2 and therefore that wasn't the case of no-death there's a confirmed doctor in the setup. This means just alone we have 3 guarenteed clears out of the remaining ten players.
3. I have never attempted to state my role action clears me or makes me town, notice inside the plan I have myself getting lynched? So how about instead of attempting to attack the plan you actually read through it? Further, although I myself may not be clear, me tracking someone to no one when a kill occurs does clear them, and with one mafia remaining even if I were to be mafia the clearance would be legitimate, the same goes for Farside and roleblocking claims.
4. PR's are much more effective when organised, controlled and directed especially when the pool of suspect players are narrowed down.-
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Regfan Jack of All Trades
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Farside, I never said it clears him if there's two scum. I said I'm assuming and believe that there's one scum remaining and therefore him not visiting increases the likelihood he's town significantly. Mafia cannot afford to not send in a kill because doing so leads towards more mslynches gained and therefore drastically decreases their chances of winning.
Had you actually read the suggestion and reasoning behind the mass-claim and managed to have the ability to look at plans objectively you would have realized that mass-claim is actually significantly better than not doing so at this point in the game however you seem content to continue ignoring my points and tunnel on.
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Fate, Llarmable, Farside, Shafted, Elibereth and Porochaz (Assuming no mafia ninja) are almost undoubtedly town. That leaves scum to be one of Agoti, VP, Mastin and Spring. I have relatively weak town-reads on AGOTI and VP right now though both need to provide more content thus I need to read into Mastin and Spring later tonight.-
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farside22 wrote:What prey tell is the relatively weak town read you have on AGOTI and what changed from yesterday?
Interactions with Parabollocks at day start doesn't read as mafia on mafia, yes. I know it's weak but it makes me feel uncomfortable enough with her lynch to not want to do it today and her attitude today doesn't read as defeatist scum.-
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farside22 wrote:Wait what about N3? Do you know something there about N3 Regfan?
No, Fate was implying that VPB was mafia because there's no doctor and he was roleblocked which wouldn't explain N1/N2 at all.
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Just re-read, feeling better about Spring and still prefer a non-agoti lynch inside that pool. Mastin or VP it is.-
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farside22 wrote:On a weak tell? Tell me something town that AGOTI did that was not following, talking about this game and I swear if I find out in a few minutes she's actively lurking I'm not letting this go. What reasons do you have for Spring, Mastin or VP?
Agoti:
Her attempting to push the mass-claim yesterday read as a town-tell to be quite honest, it is and was optimal play and I don't see her attempt to suggest it as scum because as I've pointed out it puts scum in auto-loss. I've already gone into her interactions with Para making me doubt the read, the only thing holding me back from calling Agoti a strongish town-read is her lack of real content.
Spring:Her aggression and attempt to take command with the "You have two posts" isn't what I predict mafia would be like in this scenario, they would know they're down numbers massively and therefore rather than creating enemies and trying to be authoritative and taking command I imagine them fence sitting and waiting for a mslynch to present itself. There's a few more reasons behind the town-read on her but I rather not go into it just yet if you don't mind.
Mastin:I actually had a town-read on Tajo, quite a strong one but Mastins complete avoidance of this threat is incredibly worrying and I'm not exactly sure what to make of it yet thus the movement of the Tajo slot from Town to Null/Slight Scum.
VP:
I actually found his few entrance posts to read as a town attitude but looking at his catch up post(s) it's not making much sense at all. He states that he has bad feelings about Llarmable and recognizes that he's a mason claim with Fate one of his town-reads yet doesn't move Llarmable into his town-reads. Sure, this would be nothing if he hadn't read into their claim deeply however considering he asked if they were confirmed town to each other and got a response his reluctance to outright call Llarmable town is suspicious.
Enjoy. I would consider voting VP here but I want Mastin to post before an lynch goes through.-
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