Mini 142: Guitarists Mafia- Game Over

[Talitha]

yay...

so are violinists the scum in this game? Vanessa Mae might be the godfather.

No vote for now.

[Talitha]

Just rampant speculation justin. And yeah, gotta talk about something.

[Talitha]

vote: Mr Flay

Because I feel like it.

[Talitha]

Assassin: If you have a result or something you'd like to tell us, you might as well just say it. There's no point in dropping such obvious hints, the mafia has so much more information than the town and will spot you a mile away.

[Talitha]

Mr Flay : How did you know that Assassin's vote was "mindless" and "weird"? Sounds like you know something I don't.

Sticking with my vote.

[Talitha]

Mr Flay hadn't posted, but Assassin did, saying his vote was random.

[Talitha]

Mr Flay hadn't posted, but Assassin did, saying his vote was random.

wrong. Mr. Flay posted in post 27 AND post 29, and you posted right after him in post 31, over two hours later, but didn't post your suspicion about Mr. Flay until post 35, and Mr. Flay had not posted anything since your last post to make you more suspicious of him...

After Assassin clarified that his vote was

random, it made me suspicious of Mr Flay. Because

my

first impression of Assassin's vote was that he had some information. Mr Flay seemed to

know without being told

that there was no information behind Assassin's vote.

Actually, at that point you knew more than I did, since Assasin had finally explained that his initial vote on Dourgrim was random (can you honestly read back on post 19 and tell me that didn't look weird?).

It looked like a vote from someone who knew something to me. I didn't jump to the conclusion that it was a mindless vote. The fact that you did jump to that conclusion (and were right!), is why I am voting for you. If you know that Dour is innocent because you're scum, you'd know that Assassin's vote was weird and mindless.

[Talitha]

When he followed it up with a cute little "because I know he's evil" it made me pretty certain that it was a fishing expedition

First it's mindless, then it's fishing? Fishing for what?

You voted for me long before Assasin told us his vote was random, now you say you're voting for me because I seemed to know something about his vote when none of us knew it was random.

What would you expect me to do when the person I am voting for gives me more justification for my vote? Remove it?

Yet IS gets a free ride for saying Dourgrim is evil as well. How many investigative roles do you think there *are* in this game, Talitha?

IS always gets a free ride, otherwise we'd be lynching him on Day 1 every game.

[Talitha]

OK, why is Dourgrim offering to claim his role name when only 2 people are voting for him?

[Talitha]

I'll

unvote: Mr Flay, vote Dourgrim

He seems a little

too

unconcerned about being bandwagoned. And this seems better to me than stalling the game and getting a deadline.

[Talitha]

Your offer to give a name after only 2 votes was odd. So was your assertion that a random bandwagon on you was quite justified. I'm not sure how that adds up to me being inconsistent.

With regards to roleclaiming, I'm not sure how you giving us a guitarist name is going to help much. We don't have any information as to scum roles yet. If you were town, I'd expect that you would want to keep that kind of info to yourself for as long as possible, though..

[Talitha]

What makes it odd? The fact that you were only 1/3 of the way to a lynch and were already talking about partial claims. I could understand that from a newbie, but from you it's odd.

And what's the difference between offering and actually giving the info if we'd asked for it? Your intent is the same in both cases.

[Talitha]

If nonny only has one post, she'd be an ideal candidate for a prodding.

Dourgrim should be back tomorrow and hopefully we can continue our spat

[Talitha]

Dour: Are you saying you wouldn't necessarily have given your role name, even if we had taken you up on your offer?

I'm not budging my vote right now, either.

[Talitha]

MOS: Could you tell me the good points Dourgrim has made against me, in your own words please, thanks.

Dourgrim, Why are you putting words in my mouth? When did I say I know precisely what you believe or what you were trying to do? Haven't I been asking questions to try and get you to clarify your intentions?
All I know is how it looks from here. I should have said that your actions were "odd for a pro-towner". They make a lot more sense if I put Dourgrim=scum into the equation. Hence my vote.

[Talitha]

let's see here...first, there was the incident with Mr. Flay, where you scrounged up evidence on him well after the incident, when you should've mentioned it before if it had mattered...sounds like you are trying to make up reasons to pin someone down...

sigh.. I explained this at the time.

New evidence came to light when Assassin explained his vote.

It's not my fault if you don't read and think about my posts.

now, there's the incident with dourgrim, where you are (apparently) misrepresenting his posts (i read them the same way he does)

Please give one example.

and

acting

(you didn't just come right out and say it) like you know exactly what he was trying to say in his posts while calling his posts "odd" at the same time...those two don't correlate...

He was quite clear when he offered to claim. I took it at face value and I still say it was an odd thing for him to do.

also, I think his reasoning on the offer to name his role was sound, not that I agree with it necessarily, and you are taking it a bit too far for my liking...

A fair point, and you're entitled to your opinion.

that one point seems to be your only reason for voting dourgrim, and since I think that point is false, you are voting him for no logic at all...hence, my vote...along with a general "scummy" feeling I'm getting from you...

It's one of the most suspicious things that I have seen so far. What would you like me to do, vote for someone who I'm not suspicious of?

[Talitha]

i did read your posts, and I guess I just didn't feel you explained yourself adequetely...so let's just agree to disagree, unless you have a different explanation for me...in which case you'd be changing your story, and I wouln't suggest that...

Why wouldn't you want me to change my story huh? If you really thought I was scum, you'd be looking to trip me up.
And if you really cared whether I am innocent, you'd be asking me for further explanation.
You've jumped to 3rd on my list. (Flay & Dour are tied for 1st place).

i see his post differently than you, apparently, because it doesn't seem all that odd to me...

I assume then, that you have first hand experience of Dourgrim's mafia style? How many games have you played with him?

[Talitha]

I'll thank you to not butt in when I'm asking someone a question, Dour.

I am actually interested in people's answers, unlike Dour who just wants to go on a rant.

[Talitha]

Tried to post 3 times but keep getting errors.. Bah.

[Talitha]

Oh sure. NOW the post goes through.

[Talitha]

Yes, yes, sorry, I completely forgot the Cardinal Rule of Mafia: no one should comment on Talitha (or anything she says or asks) until Talitha's gotten her answers...

No, that's not the rule at all. But I'm not going to let someone who I think is scum (that's you, Dour) jump in and distract from the issue at hand.

I never said that I am an expert on your style. Read my post again. I could and would go into details of the games I have been in with you, but I don't see any point in getting into a back-and-forth with you over how well I know your style, when it isn't really even an issue. The fact is that I'm more familiar with your play than MOS is, but even that's not a big issue.

And i still want MOS to answer my question.

[Talitha]

I've haven't played a lot of games with Dourgrim either, but that doesn't mean I can't read his posts differently than you do...

That's fine, but it makes me wonder why you don't give any consideration to the opinion of a player who has played with Dourgrim before. (Before Dour blows up at me again, I'm not saying that I know him inside out or anything). But I do have some experience that I'm basing my judgements from, whereas you have none.

I'm not saying that I'm definitely right, and MOS is definitely wrong, just interested in the situation. Maybe Dour is innocent and MOS is the scum *shrug*.

[Talitha]

Talitha, quick quesiton, why do you find Mr. Flay suspicious again?

When I saw the way Assasin voted for Dourgrim, and then his assertion that he didn't need IS to tell him anything, the first thing that popped into my head was, "Wow, Assasin could be a cop".
Then Mr Flay FOSed Assasin and then voted for him after Dourgrim did, saying that Assasin 'mindlessly' fingered Dour.
THEN Assasin comes along and says that his Dourgrim vote was just a random vote.
So Mr Flay was RIGHT about Assasin's vote being mindless. But my question is, how did he know this?

[Talitha]

What exactly are you wanting by way of explanation?

I just want to know why it never entered your head at any point that Assasin could be a cop.

You're right that we've got some good info already this day Mr Flay, but I don't want to lynch myself or Dourgrim at this point.

I've just realised we've got some major lurking going on, not the least is from the person who started all of this.

unvote: Dourgrim vote: Assasin

[Talitha]

Maverick - check out any of my other day 1s. I'm somewhat of a flip flopper and I change who I am suspicious of nearly as often as I change my undies. I often also get into heated debates with people and then back down. None of this is out of the ordinary for me.

I'm now on 4 votes out of 6, so if anyone else is intending on voting for me, I'd appreciate if you'd give me fair warning before doing so.

[Talitha]

How about the fact that Assasin has posted elsewhere on the site, but not in this thread?

[Talitha]

I'd be happy to just keep you in the game. Things are going to stall over Christmas anyway. But yeah - up to cubs.

[Talitha]

Dourgrim:

Who

is suggesting blindly lynching anyone?

Assasin: Are you there? Speak up please. If you do I may switch my vote back to Dourgrim.

[Talitha]

I have to say you're looking quite suspicious by sitting there and not saying anything Assasin.

But I don't like to lynch newbies on Day 1, even if they are wearing a badge that says 'I'm scum' on it.

unvote: Assasin

I'll wait for a vote count.

[Talitha]

I know.

[Talitha]

revote: Dourgrim

The other wagon isn't as appealing.

[Talitha]

Maverick's looking very suss to me too.

[Talitha]

I was saying that I agreed with MoS, and thought it was weird that you unvoted me. (Clarification: Weird for a

townie

to do that, if they really thought I was the best lynch candidate).

[Talitha]

Why

would you want one less vote on me if you find me the most suspicious and supposedly want me lynched? How do you know your vote isn't going to do anything? It's not like Dourgrim's death warrant has been signed. He hasn't even claimed or defended himself yet.

[Talitha]

Time to lynch the claimed townie and move on.

[Talitha]

Why would we lynch Dourgrim after his claim?

Because it's a good strategy for the town to lynch someone who claims townie on Day 1 (unless there is good evidence for their town-ness). The alternative is to go and bandwagon someone else to a claim, and expose our useful roles. Besides, I think he's scum.

And Mav, how can you be 90% sure that Dourgrim is town and 0% sure that I am town? C'mon. Both of those statements are ridiculous.

[Talitha]

Still here, still want to lynch Dourgrim.
Merry christmas all!

[Talitha]

[Talitha]

It's been so long MOS, can you remind me what your suspicions were about.

vote: Mr Flay

Same reason as yesterday, I got the feeling he knew Dour was innocent.

[Talitha]

...Assasin's bogus claims of "knowing he's evil"..

Yeah - that exactly. How did you know it was bogus yesterday? It looks like inside knowledge to me.

And I appreciate the fact that you're voting for me because I am such a brilliant player. How could I possibly be wrong if I'm not scum? I should've had this whole game wrapped up and the scumbags all lynched by now huh? Whatever.

[Talitha]

It's inside knowledge that I don't think a player looks suspicious when you do? I'm with Dourgrim on this one, you're awfully high-and-mighty here. Especially for someone who led a bad lynch yesterday (you and IS, technically, but he at least didn't try to give it any pretext).

It was nothing to do with you disagreeing with me at all. It was your reaction to Assasin's vote for Dourgrim on Page

1

. You said it was

mindless

. It was Assasin's first post. How did you know it was mindless and not a result of some information he might have? (I have said this several times before and have yet to get a satisfactory answer).
So why am I more suspicious than IS? Or anyone else who voted for Dour? Because I tried to engage the person I was voting for?
And calling me high-and-mighty just makes me want to throw things. Last I checked my vote only counted for one. I didn't lynch Dour all by myself. And it's not like I bullied everyone into voting for Dourgrim. Nor am I trying to bully anyone into voting for you. They can all freaking vote for me, for all I care right now.

Way to put words in my mouth. We've only had one night and with 3-4 scum in a mini, we had a less than 50% chance of lynching correctly yesterday. Yet you want to jump my case because I didn't believe you?

Incorrect. I'm jumping on your case because I think you're scum. And you're sounding like an "I-told-you-so" guy.

I'd have thought you'd want to re-evaluate your strategy after lynching Dourgrim, but you're intent to continue steering the boat.

I am simply voting for who I think is scum. The others can and will do what they want. You really sound like you're afraid people will listen to me.

I'm willing to gamble on you being it, just like you were willing to gamble on Dourgrim yesterday. Are you game, Talitha?

You don't sound very confident here, about me being scum....

Nobody expects you to have fingered all of the scum by now, but you're batting .000 so far.

And if Dourgrim had been scum, I'd be sweet at 100% right? Uhh, you need a decent sample before you start throwing statistics around as evidence.
I'm actually completely incredulous that you seem to think I'm single-handedly to blame for us lynching town yesterday.

Umm, when/if I stop being pissed off at Flay, I might vote Maverick or Assasin. Where are they? (And King Enigma & nonny too)

[Talitha]

Yeah that was a kinda weird statement King E.

[Talitha]

Assasin, are you still with us?

[Talitha]

Be nice if the people who have promised to re-read or respond later would actually do so.

[Talitha]

Mr Flay. I'm not trying to sound condescending here, but as a veteran of only 5 games, you might not be aware that very often a townie gets lynched on Day 1.

Furthermore, just about always, whenever anyone claims plain townie, I will try and lynch them.

Especially

on day 1. You can check out my other games if you don't believe me. It is the best strategy for the town. Please bear this in mind.

I'll most probably respond to the rest of your post after some sleep.

[Talitha]

A cop with a lucky investigation MIGHT have come out on Day One, even though it was probably suicide.

Why would it be suicide?

In the words of people who've played a lot longer than me, "It's a little early to be defending people, isn't it?

Could you please explain this further. Who was I defending? Assasin?

Why are you taking him (Assasin) at his word? "random votes" are the easiest way to get on a bandwagon and defer suspicion, so one might suspect that the belated explanation was crafted after he drew some heat (not much, I admit, but he's been keeping his head down ever since).

I wasn't taking him at his word, but what he said confirmed to me that he was NOT a cop coming forward with info. At that point my suspicion of you (and him, incidentally) rose significantly (because you already seemed to know he wasn't a cop). I'm still not entirely sure whether this was a scummy slip on your part, or whether you just saw it different to me.

You had the strongest claims against Dourgrim yesterday (....) you were the strongest proponent of the erroneous lynch yesterday.

You need to take this a step further and demonstrate how this makes me scummy. In my experience the people pushing hard and vocally against someone on Day 1 are most often town.

why would you automatically ascribe to newbies an 'innocent' badge that they haven't earned?

I didn't ascribe anyone an innocent badge. Far from it. IIRC I even voted for Assasin yesterday. I am extremely suspicious of him. But still I'd feel bad to lynch him Day 1. Day 2 is a different story and at this point I'd be quite happy to give him a severe bandwagoning. (Pity I'm so attached to my vote on you right now).

you seem to be engaged in the same "spat" with me today that you were in with Dourgrim yesterday.

I'm not going to apologise for any of it - spats are a good way to learn stuff about the other players.

You made a bad choice yesterday and you're trying to weasel out of ANY responsibility for it.

First, I don't believe I made a bad choice yesterday. Could've ended better but I believe it was the best decision at the time. Secondly, that statement should equally apply to

you

. I have not tried to weasel out of responsibility for anything. But you're suggesting that because I argued with Dour yesterday, rather than acting like I wasn't sure or just casually slipping my vote on him, that I am somehow the most scummy on the lynch. Nuh uh. Take responsibility for your own vote Flay. At least *I* thought Dour was scummy. If you didn't want him to be lynched you could've voted for me and tried to get others to do the same, or petitioned the mod for more time.

Damn I wish I could vote for more than 1 person.

unvote Flay, vote: Assasin

[Talitha]

Assasin, you haven't posted any content or suspicions since the infamous Dourgrim vote on page 1. It's not enough just to follow along, you actually have to participate.

[Talitha]

You might've been targeted by the roleblocker before he died, justin.

[Talitha]

There hasn't actually been all that much happen Maverick... and certainly nothing that should cause confusion.

[Talitha]

I think we're waiting for Assasin to get over his flu

[Talitha]

But you're the biggest lurker of all

[Talitha]

Yep, but at least the Assasin diversion is scummy looking.

if it comes close to lynch, I might change to Assassin, but right now Maverick and Tally are above him...

I think it's 3/5.... some people would consider that getting close to a lynch.

[Talitha]

I meant Assasin looks scummy.

[Talitha]

Ugh, I'm not sure what to do.

[Talitha]

Yeah, I'm going to have a hard time lynching Keith. It's a ballsy claim to make if it's not true. This is assuming that the scum don't all have nice famous guitarists roles.

And we had Johnny Ramone rather than Rotten. If Johnny Rotten turns up I'll lynch him in a heartbeat.

[Talitha]

No I'm just assuming that there will be some distinction between the town roles and the scum roles.

[Talitha]

Talitha might be right about the town possably being less known guitarists, than that of the scum being more known guitarists, but I'm not going to go by that, because I'm not sure about it.

I don't recall saying anything like this. I don't agree with it anyway.

If I were modding this game, the townies would be famous guitarists and the scum would be famous classical musicians or drummers or something.

unvote: Assasin, vote: nonny

Too damn quiet

[Talitha]

Sooo...

Nonny, you have no opinion on Assasin's claim? No-one you find suspicious? Nothing at all?

[Talitha]

And why would you make the scum a drummer if you were modding this game? This is guitar mafia.

I guess I'm just weird like that. Who would you make be the scum in Guitar mafia Maverick?

[Talitha]

So what are we going to do now? Who's not voting for anyone yet? Get busy!

[Talitha]

And IS, if it's

clear

that Nonny knows something. But you're only

speculating

that it's about Assasin, that would make nonny the one you are most sure about, so why wouldn't you vote for her?

[Talitha]

unvote: nonny, vote: Maverick

I'm still kinda wondering about nonny.

Damn I'm all confused in this game. Some people need to post more.
My current scum list: IS, Maverick, Nonny?, Mr Flay?

[Talitha]

Well it's a bit late for me to answer your question now you lynched Assasin. Did you panic when I voted for you?