TM 2023 | Mini Normal | Endgame

[Shirou]

[Shirou]

RAISE THE CURTAINS!

CHEER UP! APPLAUD!

GREET ME IN STANDING OVATION PLEBEIANS!

For I, the UNIQUE and ONLY.

Hero Of

JUSTICE

! Legendary

SAVIOR

! Infamous

VANQUISHER OF EVIL

!

S

H

I

R

O

U

AM HERE!

[Shirou]

I suppose I should also drop my curriculum as courtesy in case anyone is in need of a

HERO OF JUSTICE

somewhere else in their life as well. A sweetheart, ain't I?

[Shirou]

Either way. Now that I'm here you all can rest assured.

I'll slay the

Demon Lord

and its evil minions, then the day will once again be

saved

(

or ruined?

) while I attempt to do that.

I shall hear no complaints.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

[Shirou]

Doesn't a Hero needs a party to do hero things though?

So maybe I'll be scouting for people interested in joining my brigade of justice if I can manage to trust them yep.

[Shirou]

towny but cringe

I would say it's also cringe for you to think that's towny coming from me

but welp, I do admit I'm over the top

I claim guilty, dear judge Koba

[Shirou]

VOTE: dkkoba

half-serious vote

[Shirou]

Why are you assuming someone fed me it?

[Shirou]

Why are you assuming someone fed me it?

because i know half your team sucks at reading me

Well but I don't, I had you as almost confirmed scum in the last TM (correctly) while people that supposedly knew you kept defending you for some meta BS or something

I'm not bragging this time though, could have been a complete coicidence. I just also don't like the immediate attempt at discrediting me/my team.

Then to clarify, no one has commented about you at all in the discord.

[Shirou]

@alisae tell me how you really feel

You think Ali is good at reading you?

[Shirou]

VOTE: Dkkoba

CHOOCHOOCHOOCHOO THE TRAIN CAN'T STOP WON'T STOP

what do you hope to get out of voting me?

I'm standing in solidarity with my bestie Shirou

AUSUKAA!!!



I knew we would get along in the game!

[Shirou]

all you have is that you and I are the only 2 really willing to play - I am still binning you as town + I advise that you sort by town and not try to be a hero bc you don't find me as scum by normal metrics and are just playing roulette.

Oh my is this Flavor Leaf v2? Seems like I'm in for a ride

any players you are familiar with other than myself?

My BESTIE Ausuka

my favorite wallposter Mastina

and Ydrasse/Kowah to some extent

I think I may have played in a game with Malakittens or DeasVail but I don't quite remember their posting styles

I wouldn't say I've with certainty above random chances of correctly reading any of those players though (or you)

the unique person I think I may have above random chance of reading correctly is Norwee and welp he's on my team

[Shirou]

Why are you assuming someone fed me it?

because i know half your team sucks at reading me

Well but I don't, I had you as almost confirmed scum in the last TM (correctly) while people that supposedly knew you kept defending you for some meta BS or something

I'm not bragging this time though, could have been a complete coicidence. I just also don't like the immediate attempt at discrediting me/my team.

Then to clarify, no one has commented about you at all in the discord.

i find this incredibly difficult to believe, unless you mean since the game thread was opened.

I meant since the game thread opened, Ali said you were good in pre-game

They have said something now though,

Firebringer said he has no intention of trying to read you apparently

Norwee agrees on suspecting you a bit but "it's early game so it's not really a read"

[Shirou]

I think I know Mastina more than she knows me to be precise

I don't think we played too many games together but I've replaced her in a game before and have read old games she was in as well

She claims to have a day/night difference in her town/scum play but honestly I find her a hard read

[Shirou]

jingle told me i would butt heads with u likely and that if we were able to work with eachother it would be good so so far plan is not going well );

Oh really? I thought Jingle wouldn't remember at all but we did play a few games together/he modded a game I was in once

Did anyone else say anything then?

[Shirou]

Hmmmmmmmmm
Much to think about
Very interesting
A lot to consider here

Ydrasse impersonating a greek philosopher, I see

[Shirou]

(and will probably be most active on weekends when im not playing video game

Oh, what are you playing? Let me judge your entertainment taste! (you can judge mine later if you want to)

[Shirou]

he also disagrees with townbinning you early but i told him skill issue

I do think he's kinda right because I decided I would go for that sort of opening way before playerlist was even randed, and also decided I would play more aggressively to fool Shea or anyone in my last scum game where I was less aggressive if I randed scum

but welp, I'm really town this time

[Shirou]

(and will probably be most active on weekends when im not playing video game

Oh, what are you playing? Let me judge your entertainment taste! (you can judge mine later if you want to)

i have a ghost hunting gang for phasmophobia and we find ghosts on the daily, sometimes dying in the process!

I...really have no idea what that game may be huh

I'm not a cultured man apparently...

UNVOTE:

Datisi townreads koba unfortunately so i must look elsewhere

AUSUKA I THOUGHT WE WERE BESTIES

WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THIS

[Shirou]

We are besties but Datisi will bully me if I don't do everything he says

Blame datisi for being so mean

There should only be space for one toxic friendship in people's lives and that is supposed to be

ME

!



but fine, I'm familiar about the fact Dati keeps everyone under his control with his devilishly charm...

p-edit after the revoting:

deep down in my heart I knew you would do the right thing in the end Ausuka

[Shirou]

UNVOTE:

Datisi townreads koba unfortunately so i must look elsewhere

ur supposed to let the vote sit on me as bait for potential scum

Ok

VOTE: Koba

excellent VOTE: koba

see? even Koba agrees that it's a good vote people

hop in

[Shirou]

"The nail that sticks out gets hammered down" - Sun Tzu

[Shirou]

I'm not sure 100% sure if it was Sun Tzu that said it though.

Maybe it was Einstein or Tesla.

[Shirou]

So Shirou, according to your profile, I should take your scumhunting with a grain of salt? Yes?

Hmm, I like to think of myself as a bit better than some sees me as, and worse than some others do. depends on the games the person has played with me I guess?

The hero roleplay thing was kinda a meta pun about the fact I often try to "play hero" and do/lead everything myself

so I can link you games where I had pretty good reads and lead on scum for a town victory, and games where as a townie I was the single biggest detriment to a town win, and also some games where I was a mix of the two depending on what stage of the game we were in

I like to think that both my biggest strength and weakness are my stubbornness

When I get stubborn about scum that's cool and all, I keep tunneling them and warping the game until they die unless I'm not motivated enough for some reason, but when I get stubborn about a townie I guess you better be ready for an absolute shitshow and everyone facepalming me in post-game

We can suck at hunting scum together,

but I'll let you take the credit if we fail no worries.

Hey! I'm the token shady person here!

But offer accepted

[Shirou]

Firebringer teamed up with me to "teach me how to be zen" though

so

despite my opening, I'll try to play cheerful side character this time until perhaps I can't contain the feeling I want a given slot in the "dead" section of the mod post

I tried that in my last town game and although it resulted in an epic loss anyway, at least I had more fun than in some of the shitshows I've caused

(I had bad reads there anyway though and doing more in that last game early on probably wouldn't have helped anyway)

[Shirou]

To clarify, I've seen DGB play as both alignments and haven't seen this early quietness before. Perhaps I should have played more games, but that's how it's been from my experience.

It's only been some hours since the game started though?

[Shirou]

This is exactly the same damn opening, with the same damn pings that I got, but the difference between that game and this game?

Ok so

I thought it was a coincidence perhaps but I've also played with scum!Mastina in the first edition of Mystery Box of Silver, and she also opened the game by this weird "town", "scum" sorting in the first posts I think? I could be confusing games but I do think that's what happened.

It feels too obvious if that's some sort of meta tell though, so just to confirm, could you say a town game where you did this unironically Mastina?

[Shirou]

I think I may have seen town!Mastina do that opening in the game where she tunnels Norwee and Ali is scum but I'm not sure

I could be misremembering

[Shirou]

Ok Ali told me it's normal for Mastina to do this as either alignment apparently and Ali also TRs Mastina

[Shirou]

Ali also thinks Koba is town

[Shirou]

I like you, we play very similar.

While it's NAI in every way, I thought Shirou's entrance was adorable and I appreciate the effort put in.

[Shirou]

Ali also thinks Koba is town

But what do you think?

*checks my vote remaining on them*

to be honest I'm not feeling that serious about it, it's partially because it feels good to have a wagon to get us out of RVS as well, but in a vacuum their posts are still the worst ones to me aside from perhaps italiano's "DGB has been really quiet".

[Shirou]

but I can think of reasons to excuse Italiano thinking that so

[Shirou]

almost like to properly read people you can't just pick and choose what posts to read and have to read it as a whole

The people I admire in mafia as town tells me the opposite though I think

"Selecting a few posts that potentially are significantly more likely to come from an alignment or are likely to not be from an certain alignment" being the motto

Not that I think your posts so far are

significantly

more likely to come from a given alignment though

/shrug

[Shirou]

almost like to properly read people you can't just pick and choose what posts to read and have to read it as a whole

The people I admire in mafia as town tells me the opposite though I think

"Selecting a few posts that potentially are significantly more likely to come from an alignment or are likely to not be from an certain alignment" being the motto

Not that I think your posts so far are

significantly

more likely to come from a given alignment though

/shrug

the mark of a player who knows what they are truly doing is sorting by town, actually, which is why holistic reading is better

Hmm

I was talking about how I perceived Ellie's philosophy you know? Although I could have misinterpreted it who knows

As a counterpoint to my own point, I would say that knowing what is "significantly more likely" to come from a certain alignment or not is hard without knowing someone's personality/meta, and given I don't like meta nowadays (neither am good at identifying reliable tells?), sometimes the method fails quite terribly indeed

Dunno why discuss this though, I'm not going to change my mind on how I approach sorting people really

[Shirou]

anyways i think ur slot resolves itself if town so idc what u think personally, i have bigger concerns like carrying this game

Heh...is that so

[Shirou]

UNVOTE:

now I wait

[Shirou]

[Shirou's FM]

[

Breaking News

]

Firebringer has just

announced

, I repeat,

ANNOUNCED

that Mastina is town! (before her last post about Koba).

Ali and Shirou get into a small argument about some info, however by the end they decide to reveal as public info that we're in a 4p Neighborhood!

Norwee...is playing genshin. But so should I! Baizhu can't come fast enough for me to roll him!

Moreeee newsss tomorrow, at the same time! At the same Frequency! At the same Radiooooo!

Yours truly Shirou exclusively keeping you updated with the latest developments of the

Perfectly Balanced Team With No Exploits's

Round Table.

This level of quality? You only find it here.

[Shirou]

@mastina what can i share from teammates to get u to townread me bc ik i aint getting through myself LMFAO

Btw this is scum.
DKKoba's approach this game isn't sorting me.
They're aware that I scumread them when I'm town--and they posted that before I even got a chance to post, so...what's to stop me from being scum and, knowing what they said, deliberately scumreading them?
A town-Koba should know this, be aware of this, and be considering that I could be scum.

Yet Koba bringing up my tendency to scumread them wasn't done as a gambit, and wasn't done to sort me.
It was done to discredit my push, because Koba knew I would be pushing them, and thought that was bad because they're scum and I'm town, and you can tell because Koba's not putting one iota of sorting into me here and is treating me as town.

I get the idea of exaggerating a townread for the sake of engagement. I get the idea of white lies to help build a more genuine read. But there's not so much of a hint of that in Koba's posts, which means...

...Koba is scum.

Norwee wants me to say that this is a very mastina post and is worth of being Post of the Year's meme material

He also thinks she's town

So uh, I guess for now I'll townlean Mastina? My entire team seems to town read her even though I've personally no strong opinion about her slot

[Shirou]

I just want to say I townread Arko 209 and I was the first one to do so I think

in case it's correct

if he's scum fuck me

[Shirou]

Readlist Edition#1

Let's go I guess

[] - just town
[Arko] - townlean
[Mastina*] - nulltown
[Ausuka, DeasVail, DrippingGoofball, ItalianoVD, Kowahbunga, Aisa, Malakittens, Xofelf, Ydrasse] - null
[DkKoba] - nullscum
[] - scumlean
[] - just scum

* = It's mostly it being TM and me taking my teammates views into consideration, but I personally don't town read Mastina at all and something in one of her recent posts

greatly

bugs me but I'll let it fly for now and perhaps come back to it later

[Shirou]

Shirou is town.

I'm glad we agree on that at least

[Shirou]

Actually I just noticed it's not impossible scum may think I'm crumbing cop or something with my emojis if they aren't familiar with me (I always do this, I just like the emoji)

I actually hardclaim not cop and if I ever do claim cop you can treat me as confscum

If I do die N1 on Team Mafia of all games I want it to be exclusively because scum thinks I'm such a popular townie sweetheart rather than some poor PR hunting attempt

I take my N1 deaths as a badge of honor

[Shirou]

Just a thought

Why is Italian VD voting Koba and not me?

Inactive vs Active suspect dilemma? Welp, he can reply himself I guess

either way, just want to say Ali has said for the fifth time to vote Kowah because she's townleaning most active players

but as I stand here,

I realize,

that I'm gonna bully her again and say no.

[Shirou]

VOTE: kowah

[Shirou]

Ali finally got to you?

A bit but also I disliked his "I was vla so couldn't post" when he posted elsewhere in the site

there's also something else I'll refrain from commenting for now once again

[Shirou]

I love rabbits (favorite animal, also, my chinese zodiac!) and thought I would be a bit biased to townleaning Aisa but I'm surprised it's not really happening

I don't dislike her slot either tho

I should prob mull over xof's ISO because it feels like I could give they a townlean but I also worry they may only be towny in a ~superficial~ level

[Shirou]

VOTE: Malakittens

maybe I found scum before u koba

[Shirou]

just maybe though

also coming into today i feel like koba may just be town

there's people scumposting elsewhere now

[Shirou]

DUKE MALAKITTENS,

I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL BEFORE THE THRONE

[Shirou]

Oh wait, Duchess Malakittens?

[Shirou]

DUKE MALAKITTENS,

I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL BEFORE THE THRONE

Dude Wtf

If this is some type of gladiator im going to be FUCKen pissed.

get PISSED THEN EVILDOER

[Shirou]

Prepare yourself.

My fencing skills are unmatched through all kingdom.

[Shirou]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THIS BESTIE???

[Shirou]

DUKE MALAKITTENS,

I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL BEFORE THE THRONE

Dude Wtf

If this is some type of gladiator im going to be FUCKen pissed.

get PISSED THEN EVILDOER

I’m town and I haven’t yet figured out how I feel about you. I also don’t know you nor do I know how to fucking read you.

I feel like this is going to be an unfair advantage because I feel like people are just going to vote me based on you being more friendly and political wise I’m just going to lose say like an election.

I’m actually having fun this fucking game and half the player list hasn’t posted

So this if this a true 1v1 this is premature and fucking antiyown as fucking shit

Why does every Villain love to talk so much before the battle?

Talk no Jutsu shall not work on me. Show me your resolve through your CLAWS.

[Shirou]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THIS BESTIE???

I am entertained

ty ty, I live to entertain!

[Shirou]

If you want my claws Shiro I’ll give you the devils right hand.

MASAKA

you have demonic powers?!?!!

I just KNEW you were EVIL!

[Shirou]

whether my role is a gladiator or not doesn't matter Demon Queen El Malakittens.

I'm always at least a 1-shot Gladiator even when I roll VT

[Shirou]

I live for the duel, and those that kill by the sword, die by the sword!

[Shirou]

Now you're rolefishing! The horror!

Must you be set on your evil ways of piling up transgressions against us innocent townies...?

[Shirou]

For real now though.

I'm skeptical you believed so hard so easily that I really was a gladiator in a Mini Normal.

The unique reason I'm not sure you were faking it is because I think you are an older player that isn't too active nowadays, so maybe you didn't know that detail.

I'm still skeptical of your reaction though, it felt a bit overplayed just like your mastina "why are you letting her get away with it?".

I was even willing to buy your high confidence on Mastina being scum until you walked back on that rather quickly, coincidentally when most people showed more support for Mastina being town.

[Shirou]

It would be a really long almost philosophical talk to detail precisely why in the linguistics, but the way you've been talking about things recently sounds to me like scum testing waters to see what kind of position you should take in the game in summary.

Dunno, not a very strong read though. I'm still squinting at Kowah as well.

[Shirou]

Fire TRs Mala though

Norwee seems more unsure as I'm trying to convince him of my read while Firebringer smells

To be precise, Firebringer smells like wet dog, says Norwee

[Shirou]

I've time and time again told Firebringer that just because he isn't a dog doesn't mean he can skip on using shampoo, but he WON'T listen to me, ever.

[Shirou]

because he

is

a dog

[Shirou]

also since i have egregiously misread mastina in the past jingle told me to outsource the read to him if im not confident

w
h
a
t
?

weren't you THE expert in reading Mastina?

[Shirou]

also a question to shirou to ask FB which post was towny

I didn't explain his read exactly because the reasoning would sound kinda rude but he said mastina was likely town because she was annoying him actually

"trademark firebringer's mastina townread" he said

[Shirou]

about Ausuka potentially trying to pocket me by getting into my good side...it feels possible but at the same time I'm not too worried about it right now, she's on my null pile

I must confess I'm quite weak to people humoring me/being nice to me though

(

*Meuh PSTD flashbacks*

)

[Shirou]

u actually reminded me i mixed up FL and mastina in the last game we played in that i didnt actually get fooled by scum mastina but jingle and I agree anyways
lil brain fart

ok wait a second i'm gonna flip a coin to see if i buy this explanation

[Shirou]

[Shirou]

it says I shouldn't believe on it too much and move u back to my nullscum pile

[Shirou]

but at the same time super weird stuff to fake/lie if you're scum

it still doesn't make a lot of sense as town either tho

[Shirou]

She claims to have a day/night difference in her town/scum play but honestly I find her a hard read

its pretty easy for me

and she still doesnt know what the difference it ;D

lets just say i tend to prefer to ignore mastina in games

and i rarely have a good confident read on her regardless

It's not about being "scatterbrained", you've done a 180º on how you theoretically view mastina as a slot you need to sort and it's puzzling? maybe you were just being cheeky in the first quote but it's hard for me to sympathize with this progression because I view it like as if walked back on how well I can read Norwee and that would never happen because...it's true?

[Shirou]

oh hey jingle told me abt that i think pregame when brainstorming plans if i were to rand scum in this game.

can you ask Jingle from what game he got that impression of me?

[Shirou]

yeah, as much as I love her I could cut ydra head off this game and not regret it regardless of result so far I think

she feels similar to the dance game here

[Shirou]

iirc last night pb said that 375 was bad enough that it should be buried now

and I think you also suspected italiano more than mala in your ISO but you're voting Mala?

[Shirou]

I don't care if you believe me Ydra

the biggest difference between what I remember from you there vs here is that you fluffposted more at the start in the dance game

I feel I only have read noise from you so far in this game, same thing in that one except when you decided to whiteknight a townie

[Shirou]

wow re:reading your ISO in that game I'm facepalming my past self for not killing you for the lack of engagement

I guess you've engaged a bit more here but it's also Team Mafia

I don't feel like you posted anything spicy so yeah if push came to shove I could vote you I guess

p-edit: sometimes you type a lot of words but I don't get warm feelings from it so it's a nothingburguer in my mind

[Shirou]

I'm not even sure about where you stand exactly in this game

your posts doesn't feel noteworthy and I don't mean to be rude, it's just what I feel right now

[Shirou]

I could perhaps just dislike it when people take many lines to make a single point/read though

could be a playstyle issue

[Shirou]

if you don't believe in my read on you maybe we should pull each other hair and roll down the stairs together

I pinky promise that it'll be fun

[Shirou]

pls don't get jealous Mala I haven't forgotten my desire to send you to the shadow realm either

[Shirou]

ok the perfect summary is that I'm glazing over your posts more than Mastina's and that's not a good sign

I'm paying close attention to everything Mastina has said but I can't manage to do it with your posts, it feels overexplainy

trying to dig depth of stuff that feels flat

gotta go back to work now see ya tomorrow

p-edit: eh I don't want you to "apologize" Ydra, you're perfect the way you're no matter your alignment it's just a game

I simply find your posts scummy ig

[Shirou]

I'm completely off the cuff and have not digested any of the last five pages, but Shirou, can you say a bit more about what the issue is with Ydra's posts not feeling "noteworthy" enough
Or rephrase or something

I think you or xof said you were glazing over some mastina posts

that's me with ydra

I have never felt like this about her but at the same time I've not seen her in that many games

/shrug

[Shirou]

maybe I just want/expect ydra to be sarcastic, *twirls hair* and drop snark reads/posts rather than how she's playing here

but maybe this could be mostly a scum!ydra thing on hindsight, I do think I remember her playing like that as town before tho

[Shirou]

i feel like as a defensive mechanism i’m not reading shirou or kobas posting thus far and it’s left me in a weird place where they’re both just null despite having said a lot.

also I had missed this

it's funny (to me)

[Shirou]

*twirls my fake anime blonde gorgeous hair*

bye bye for real now



p-edit: I'll post about it later yep

[Shirou]

i feel like as a defensive mechanism i’m not reading shirou or kobas posting thus far

actually the more I think about this the sadder It feels, not funny anymore I guess...

I thought at first it was about you feeling I was a hard read but is it about my vibes making the game "unfun"? It's fine to be honest if you think I'm being too much

[Shirou]

I don't wanna sound like I'm trying to pocket now but I'm starting to like your slot more after our talk

[Shirou]

I was gonna address some stuff tonight but I ended up chatting away with my friend for today

Mala voting me is funny

explain your scumread on me Mala? I was anti-town at first for gladiating you but then I wasn't a gladiator so am I scum now for scumreading you or?

[Shirou]

It's the second time Aisa tries to wagon me but I'm still ok with her slot

I'll for now just consider it wrong town

I'm very interested on Mala's SR on me though

[Shirou]

@Shirou: Titus says she would like a cookie.

[Shirou]

I think there's two main ways to interpret this game right now (if we don't assume both mala/italiano are scum which could be the case tbh but doesn't sound that likely)

Italiano is the scum wagon and I'm unintentionally helping to form a counterwagon on Mala (and it's a bit surprising he wouldn't pile up on Mala here as well tho?)

Mala is the scum wagon and either italiano or me are potential counterwagons

I don't scumread Italiano but I'm not gonna say he's town either, I need to re:read his ISO when I've the time but I don't feel he has higher odds of flipping scum than Mala at the moment.

If Italiano is mafia it means my reads are potentially wrong and I shouldn't lead, which is what's gonna naturally happen if he ends up flipping scum today. If Italiano is town I think everyone townreading Mala today could perhaps give a shot at reconsidering.

There's a third option where both are town but I personally don't believe much on it right now. However in that scenario I think Kowah would be a good vote.

[Shirou]

Italiano wagon has felt a bit scum motivated to me, or at least something the scummier slots have expressed an interest on, that's why I'm kind of skeptical until perhaps my re:read on his ISO.

[Shirou]

I'm sure it's just a style of Shirou's, but personally 5-7 posts in a row *bug* me

and yep, sorry but hopefully you'll get used to it!

[Shirou]

For last Ali said for me to tell Titus that I'm not the player "Shiro" (that I think still uses a avi from No Game No Life?) if she's perhaps confusing me.

as my signature says, my original account in the site is Fumuki.

Gotta leave Ydra/Aisa questions to me for another day, goodnight thread! ~



(also DGB, ignore the mean comments I've seen you rock as town in past games before!)

[Shirou]

I'm here for a bit again.

@Aisa
Fire told me to remind you of that game where he tunneled town!you, and then he says for you to keep going as you're because he's reading you as town right now and it's amusing him you're the one in the wrong this time

FB also wants to share he townreads all of [ydra/DGB/Mala/Aisa], but is willing to reconsider Aisa if she keeps tunneling me. (I dunno why he thinks that, I don't have an issue with Aisa's push on me at least for now. Mala's vote on the other hand...)

[Shirou]

I'll address some of the questions I still remember being asked towards me yesterday when I couldn't reply

is it any particular reason or the just *hand waves at the past page*
p-edit: i probably will looking at the vc but i want to organize my thoughts more in thread so italiano can respond if he wants rather than just fighting ghosts

I began to compare you in this game vs Dance Game and actually began to notice I misremembered how much effort/thought/analysis your post had there initially. Most of what I remembered in that game from you was our silly roleplay very early on and then you extensively counter-arguing with me on MariaR. I didn't remember how relatively little effort you had put in most of your posts in that game until certain "heated" moments where I finally paid attention to you again there as you were talking more.

That said, I don't think I can townbin you yet for only that given it's TM and I imagine even scum!you would force yourself more to effort here given you've responsibilities towards the team (I know by now that you hate playing scum? or maybe it was an issue of rolling it too many times in a row back then?).

Basic TL;DR is that I reconsidered and I think you were right when you said comparing your play here to Dance Game wasn't fair to you.

[Shirou]

I think that was Xof.
What did you think of my post on Ydra? Take your time I don't need an answer this very second

Let me re:read it

Thoughts on Ydra.

Gun to head I would still call her null. Some of her posting feels quite natural. She's doing some scumhunting and while I don't always find her conclusions super solid I can easily see the world where her ISO is her actual thought process at this time.

But there is this one thing that bugs me:

I feel like the (look like I have thoughts) to (thoughts) ratio in her ISO is quite high.

Mostly because (look like I have thoughts) is so high. She has a supremely easy to follow ISO at the moment because every little action and implication is made explicit. This is pro-town but perhaps something scum are even more incentivised to do than town?

Vote / question someone -> unvote after their reply
Is definitely a pattern I've seen from scum before

I need to re:read her ISO at some points since I already forgot most of it probably but this does reminds me that she did this quite a bit as far as I actually remember. She also directly engaged with Deas though? I don't remember the context as well as I do remember that it was a mailing flavored post!

Huh? You think I only remember the useless details? Maybe.

Either way, I think your analysis was okay, and Mastina seemed to talk about something similar to this argument with a different language/words (noise/signal or so).

@Ausuka given you're voting ydra now, aside from the not believing ydra's read on xof/you, do you think ydra is playing to her "scum meta" in general with her posts?

[Shirou]

Sorry for not existing

I will exist tomorrow, will completely re-read over again for good measure.

(This is TOTALLY not a prodge I am not kidding (Please don't hurt me))

I'm starting to lose my goodwill towards this slot by the way.

Too many promises, too little delivery.

[Shirou]

I recommend you to take a peek on her ISO in the Dance Game again

I had that same impression and I changed my mind on it on a revisit

[Shirou]

I don't mean to say your scum read on her is necessarily wrong, just that I *do* think she's playing somewhat substantially different to the Dance Game here

[Shirou]

If you think there's something wrong there, can you just say it? I mean, I revisited it, and I don't see anything obvious that would change my read

Really? Most of her posts there are one/two liners with not much explanation or analysis behind it. You don't think it's different than what she's doing here?

[Shirou]

At least in the start I guess, she eventually does try a bit harder much later when the stakes are also higher

[Shirou]

What's this "if push came to shove"? I want to understand how your mind thinks about votes and wagons. Why was this not an immediate vote-Ydrasse?

I'm not even sure if that's the correct phrase given english isn't my first language but it means something akin to "last resort", so in mafia terms, it meant I was at that moment willing to compromisse on Ydrasse if my main suspect(s) weren't viable today (at this moment, that being Malakittens).

Why is your vote on Mala at the moment? Do you feel that you should be pushing Mala more or are you content with keeping your vote there and seeing what happens?

My vote is on her because I think she's the most likely to be scum right now?

About what I feel I should do, it depends. A considerable number of people including my teammates TRs her so I'm hesitant and worried I may be wrong, therefore although I think If I wanted to very very seriously/confidently elim her today I should push her more, I do not enjoy feeling dumb with the outcome of my pushes like some of my past games and am refraining for now of being too noisy/loud about my push on her.

If you want to more specifically know what I'm talking about, read a bit of Mini Normal 2088 and the last Large Theme Dance Game, maybe Open 870 White Flag a bit in the last day as well.

as said in Normal 2088, I've come to think of mafia games as some sort of alternative gacha games where although I do my best to attempt having the best probabilities on it, anything can happen and the dice ultimately decides. I don't have enough confidence on Mala at the moment to warp the game about my read on her and risk public humiliation if wrong.

[Shirou]

What is this thing she did, this "this"? Is it a different thing or the same thing that made you suspicious a couple days ago (you were saying that Ydrasse's posts felt like they had a lot of words and didn't feel noteworthy).

Yeah it's kinda the same thing, by "this" I meant this part of your post on her (I even bolded but maybe you missed it):

I feel like the (look like I have thoughts) to (thoughts) ratio in her ISO is quite high.

[Shirou]

VOTE: fuck yes a shiro is wagon

Mala can you elaborate on your thoughts on Shirou

You said something along the lines of his push on you being anti-town but I don't think you ever indicated he was likely to be scum so this comes off as strange to me

I've kinda asked for this twice already as well but to be fair she seems on V/LA so...now we wait I guess.

[Shirou]

Oh also, FB said if he was here in my place he would sheep DGB on Arko even if I personally "town read" the guy

I feel some desire to make who we lim today someone's else but I wouldn't do it if I town read a slot, and I was town reading Arko before.

Right now...I don't think I'm town reading him anymore though, not sure if I'm willing to vote there yet but yeah, @Arko do something.

p-edit: oh, talking about the devil

[Shirou]

Shirou are you mad at me
Also I think you said you were going to read over italiano, did anything come of that

Oh sorry I forgot to reply your question, no I'm not mad at you why would I be?

about italiano...did I actually promise that? I read his AtE posts and felt it was genuine and DGB backed off (I saw her as the one giving the most credibility to the push because I don't remember exactly which games, but I've the mental image of her as a very capable town player), I'll probably do it at some point but I'm afraid not today

[Shirou]

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=90403&user_select%5B%5D=34307

For example I found this game in which Ydrasse is town and almost all of her posts in the early game are one or two liners? Like more so than the scum game I would say, although I haven't looked it over too closely. I don't understand what you see in this line of argument - have you seen this game, and if so how did it impact your thinking?

I had looked on this game you linked a bit during lunchbreak and yeah, it felt very low effort. However although I hadn't seen that game before, I don't think it changes completely what I was arguing for. I said I didn't necessarily mean your read on her was wrong but that she was objectively playing this game differently than Dance Game as you implied here:

I don't think I put much focus on her slot in general there, but looking back, I don't see any significant difference that would impact my read

I wanted to see what you would post/think if you changed your opinion about this game not having "significant differences" to the Dance Game, however you linked a town game of her where she is also lower effort.

I think you would be "winning" the argument with that if I was strictly arguing that Ydra is only casual/minimalistic in her scum games, but that's not it, I was making an observation that regardless of what everyone thinks her alignment is, she

is

playing this game differently than the Dance Game, and it does puzzle me a bit that you don't seem to concede on that point at all

Linking a different game to say she played there similarly to Dance Game kinda subconsciously/indirectly implies to me that you realize there's a difference on her play here after all but I may be reading too much into this.

[Shirou]

I sort of feel like you're approaching this like I started talking to you insisting that Ydrasse is scum because she's different from the dance game or something. I'm pretty sure I never said anything along these lines.

No, I'm approaching this to see how pointing out a counter-argument for something you said (even if it was a very minor point on your read on her) would reflect on your thoughts on Ydra if at all

To also use this post to reply you on your Italiano's case, I've just re:read all your interactions up to that point and I can see the argument for him not "doing anything substantial" but I do think that also applies to Arko/Kowah and to some extent dare I say Koba?

[Shirou]

FB said he would sheep DGB?

this is like a big nothingburger post to say "arko kinda fell off" but big paragraph lol

So when he tells me to share one of his thoughts in the discord I should just be a jerk and ignore my teammate?

He even shared it while he was busy. Shading me for playing Team Mafia the way it's intended to be played (as a TEAM) is just annoying/reachy.

[Shirou]

oh im sorry i dont repeat the same thing like 5 times to make my posts look bigger and say what i mean

kowah is just my little pet townie thats gonna get carried and realize

they kinda were being silly when they see my name as one of the nightkills

my team is doing 3d chess while yours is playing checkers, we are not the same.

You're starting to get on my nerves to be honest. If you think I'm scum I don't think you're anywhere near the priority of nightkills this time rest assured.

It also reminds me to ask you, mena didn't say anything about me at all?

[Shirou]

if i didnt post it, I found it - he said you come off as chaotic which he thinks is towny and then mentioned a few other things im keeping to myself right now so i can examine

i disagreed with him on that but now i remember thats partially why i didnt bother pursuing this earlier.

"Pursue" whatever you want but do know as I have said before you're on my nullscum pile and I don't like most of your posts

A shitpush on me like shading the fact I'm sharing my teammates thoughts also raises my willingness to kill you a bit but most importantly stop talking in such a condescending tone to me or my team. I haven't personally seen yet anything from you that makes me respect you, and It certainly doesn't help that you seem to think I'm scummy here while I'm arguably in my town meta at least early on, so...maybe watch how you talk to me/my team? Thanks?

I may be as much if not more egoistical than you but I don't think I'm

this

condescending/arrogant. I'm probably more obnoxious/noisy than you though.

[Shirou]

"shitpush" like i literally havent like taken time to cultivate a read on you and was cautious bc of my teammates in my ear.

"cautious"/"taking your time" you say?

More like you're doing a 180º on your read on me when I turned into a viable wagon

I'm not interested in voting either shirou and ydrasse today

[Shirou]

Welp, I just wanted to try having a nice game of mafia under FB's philosophy of "having fun" but it's starting to feel like that's not what me or anyone else is gonna get unhappily

Aisa pushed me and I think I was pretty polite about it as she was, but here we've you acting like a condescending piece of crap for a read I know you're just wrong

If you really are scum ignore this petty complaint I guess, it's a fair/good tactic to be too overconfident as scum even without any flips in the game

[Shirou]

"shitpush" like i literally havent like taken time to cultivate a read on you and was cautious bc of my teammates in my ear.

"cautious"/"taking your time" you say?

More like you're doing a 180º on your read on me when I turned into a viable wagon

I'm not interested in voting either shirou and ydrasse today

yeah i do that p often, 180s are my thing, deal with it

Sure, but you aren't walking back from this pivot on me, I'm not letting you.

You have made it sound like you had those "SeKrEt thoughts" about me for awhile and now you're gonna push it and if you try to offer an Olive Branch to me if it "doesn't work out well" for you (could work well though, it's possible) I'm gonna treat it as scumclaiminig just like the last TM and I don't care how many excuses of "I always do this as town!!" you've because you've used the same ones as scum in the last edition

You don't get to do whatever you want as "science"/"reaction" and walk away without consequences with meta excuses like last time

You apparently have been "cooking" something on me so go on, show the class your work Koba

[Shirou]

shocker - good mafia player tends to be open to reevaluation throughout a day phase

such a quick and time sensitive reevaluation upon my wagon/suspicious on me raising, totally not opportunistic Doctor Koba.

[Shirou]

I was holding back how towny I was after the initial pages because I wanted to play TM more rather than risk being NK'd for being too obvtown, however scrap that, LET'S GO for the usual War Arc Innocent Child route

[Shirou]

Nothing of value would be lost in that scenario anyway

[Shirou]

DKKoba is probably town from a mechanical point of view

what do you mean by that

Yeah, seconded this.

I was gonna ask that but I got carried away with Koba

[Shirou]

Actually this is starting to remind me of TM 2018 where scum!FL also tried to pivot on me with some bullshit and I called him out for it but no one would believe me he was scum for it because "oh it's his meta to do crazy things" or some other useless argument that means you're letting them get away with it everytime

If scum!FL hadn't literally scumslipped in the main thread, scum would have won that game

Koba don't be shy, I want a case demonstrating your intense love for me and if I don't buy it we'll have a new duel sparring pair

Tell me in detail how I went from being one of your apparent top TRs to a SR coincidentally when people toned down on their TRs on me/voted me

[Shirou]

Okay I'm posting a bit too much but again Firebringer told me that you @Koba can go play 3D by yourself and that he's "angey" at you. Nope, that's not a typo that's just his adorable doggo language people.

He's also telling he wants Aisa to tunnel me apparently because it seems he's sadist towards me and huh I think his takes are getting me in trouble but I love him and will keep you all updated on it

Now I gotta finish Genshin's Event see ya

[Shirou]

Ok I'm back

Shirou i am interested to hear where koba expressed a strong townread on you?

well that's how I interpreted this?

I'm not interested in voting either shirou and ydrasse today

What else could it even mean Ausuka?

[Shirou]

they don't want to vote you because you're so scary and intimidating or because if you two fight it was always going to take over the thread

Eh I'm not that intimidating I even have a cute anime girl as an avi!

I also avoided pushing them too much at the start for fear of it "taking over the thread" since the first few pages tho but oh well

Idk i just remembered their readslist had you in the middle and they have been kind of not so positive about you since then

[/quote]
What I quoted was their most recent mention of me aside form asking Italiano about his town read on me

Either way, when I said Koba did a 180º on his read on me, if they hadn't me as town they would have said so rather than "doing 180º are my thing", which does imply if not pretty much confirm my supposedly placement as town before this started

[Shirou]

(

Doubleposting to fix the quote.

)

they don't want to vote you because you're so scary and intimidating or because if you two fight it was always going to take over the thread

Eh I'm not that intimidating I even have a cute anime girl as an avi!

I also avoided pushing them too much at the start for fear of it "taking over the thread" since the first few pages tho but oh well

Idk i just remembered their readslist had you in the middle and they have been kind of not so positive about you since then

What I quoted was their most recent mention of me aside form asking Italiano about his town read on me

Either way, when I said Koba did a 180º on his read on me, if they hadn't me as town they would have said so rather than "doing 180º are my thing", which does imply if not pretty much confirm my supposedly placement as town before this started

[Shirou]

Actually I'd like to ask about this

My perception was that you played more into the bestie thing than I did so looking back it's kind of strange that you would approve of this narrative like this

What did I do to pocket you that wasn't done in reverse?

Nothing but I don't think that's relevant from

my

PoV? Even if we did something similar I know my own alignment while I don't know yours and I can see for example how from yours/a third party's pov I could seem like I'm attempting to "pocket" you?

In my defense I'm often this friendly with at least one person in games so I would argue it's very NAI for me given how common it is

[Shirou]

Is pocketing people by joking with them or being nice a scum tactic which you employ often?

In my defense I'm often this friendly with at least one person in games

so I would argue it's very NAI for me

given how common it is

Hmm, well yeah a bit? I do it as either alignment like I said above, contrary to what some people may think I do like being nice to people when I can!

[Shirou]

But that's exactly why the idea that it

should

be looked at as a pocketing tactic is strange

I considered it as a hypothetical scenario because everything is possible in mafia. I didn't say that it *should* be viewed this way at all. We simply always need to think about all sorts of probabilities.

about Ausuka

potentially

trying to pocket me by getting into my good side

------------- // ---------------

What I'm trying to ask is, when you're scum, do you do this with the specific idea to pocket people?

It's half because of my personality and the other half because it's advantageous for my wincon yeah

[Shirou]

Teyvat is quite relaxing

I've already forgotten half of my annoyance with Koba, feels good

FB said the best way for dealing with Koba is ignoring him. That seems like a good idea but at the same time if Koba is scum that's basically letting they get away with whatever they do so

/shrug

[Shirou]

him

they*

sorry

[Shirou]

Ok before going to bed I want to state I've decided once more to not let my ego win and potentially turn the game unfun for everyone so early

I'm gonna judge Koba's slot strictly on what I think of their alignment rather than also internally justify pushing them as a form of punishment for being disrespectful to me and my teammates or so incredibly arrogant even though they're wrong

I was actually preparing myself to spam and yell in this game no matter the cost to get votes on them but it's not worth it

[Shirou]

Kowah broke what should be a string of posts but it's ok he's voting Koba.

All that above said, I really objectively dislike Koba's ISO though. They'll argue "it's how they play" but they've been all over the place often hopping on what seems to me some of the most popular suspects through the days. If they're as good of a scumhunter as they claim to be, "a cut above", I would expect some hot takes by this point because rather than witnessing Koba "carrying" anything, to me they're in fact often "sheeping" here.

I'm not sure Koba has pushed anyone that wasn't already being pushed by someone else before.

[Shirou]

Eh, Malakittens isn't around anyway, let's do this for now

VOTE: DkKoba

p-edit: up to you what to do/vote Kowah, I feel kinda lost in this game so I'm not rallying for votes yet

[Shirou]

I don't see it being very scum hunting of them to just talk about how great they are while doing nothing to prove it. Seems like they just want us to believe their self invented hype.

For what it's worth I do think "hyping" themselves up is something that even town!Koba would do, but I don't feel they're trying to truly solve the game as much as hopping on a bunch of consensus wagons/reads and passing by as if it's meaningful contribution. I don't care if they think doing a bunch of hopping is "for science", I wanna see they get invested on something they came up with themselves and explain their thought process rather than just shade.

[Shirou]

The most important thing as a townie for most in my opinion is to be able to show you're trustworthy to other players and therefore avoiding being a miselimination. If every townie can show themselves to be aligned with the town, the scum are clear by default PoE (process of elimination). If someone is town,being intentionally "confusing" all the time because you're playing "3D chess" makes everyone's else job harder.

I think the town reads on Koba are kinda...horseshit, and no different to the MANY people wrongly townreading they in TM 2021 for "Koba always plays like this". If Koba's ISO hopping on consensus wagons/suspects and opportunistically flipping their read belonged to say, Italiano, would he be excused in the same way?

"My meta is doing quirky stuff lol" is the exact card scum!FL played in TM 2018 and TM 2020, and scum!Koba played in TM 2021. I've seen this shitty excuse being used three times in a row in my last TMs and I'm afraid it could be the case again. If someone isn't making themselves completely clear on purpose all the time or doing shady stuff, you pressure them into showing their hand, that's it. Period.

"My meta is doing scummy stuff as town lol" is a type of mentality that needs to die and I said it in TM 2021 as well.

[Shirou]

I don't want to AGAIN, for the FOURTH time need to explain that if someone is doing objectively scummy stuff and say "it's NAI", you pressure them anyway because "it's NAI" means they can be scum playing it in their favor and the people doing this type of stuff in my last TM games were scum 3 out of 3 times.

You pressure or kill people doing shady stuff, period. If their playstyle is being shady they perhaps they need to start not being shady rather than expecting others to divine when they are being shady as town or scum.

Goodnight lovely thread.

[Shirou]

hey shirou, trying to project someone else's playstyle onto me won't work.

I'm not projecting shit.

You were scum in TM 2021, use this same excuse when opportunistically shitpushing Super, and I correctly suspected you for it

The end. No projecting anything, I'm talking about FACTS from the past.

You say I keep repeating myself but it doesn't seem like you got the Memo. I've played multiple times with people that try to excuse behavior that can potentially have scum agenda with "it's NAI for me" and I don't buy it and they were all scum so far in fact.

If you're town you need to stop thinking you're such a special snowflake that I'm going to sit here and treat your slot like some kind of Grand Savior and let you do whatever you want because "You're all unable to read the depths of my 3D Chess thoughts" or some other BS.

You do something, you say something, you vote someone, and you take responsibility for it. Reaction tests can be good sometimes but a "everything is a reaction test" excuse can go to hell, and that's all your ISO apparently is? "For science".

[Shirou]

Like do I need to make a compilation of people that said this shitty excuse and people townread it for them/ignored the issue and they flipped scum?

Out of the top of my head I already remember 4 times, 3 TMs and 1 game where it was scum!Nero and I pushed him for it but "oh being scummy that's his meta lol"

No, you don't get special treatment Koba. No one should.

[Shirou]

It's overexaggerated given the context.

I think you underestimate how annoyed you made me being condescending on something I know you're wrong and if scum I also know you're trying to test yourself against me.

Either way I'm already over the ego thing, I just think your ISO is bad at this point.

[Shirou]

The SHIROU'S GREAT WALL on "It's NAI lol", "I'm scummy as town too lol", "You don't know how to read me I'm too big brain lol"

EDITION#1 - "I'm shitpushing you Volpe but it's for reactions lol"

Subject: TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

I was level headed the whole time. You just didn’t see it that way because you felt pressured. Like I said, i wasn’t even really pushing you hard, all I did was comment on the timing, and made an early game vote, and you pushed it like it was this huge thing.

I guarantee you, Volpe, you would not be scum reading me here if I were scum. AtE, sure, idgaf, but you’re tunneled, and you are incorrect. I’m going to break you out of it.

If you scum read it, so be it, but I do it as scum because I do it as town.

So this nullifies everything that you said about "Town me would" this and "Scum me would" that before and after since you act the same as either alignment.

Yup, that’s a town trait I have to nullify everything

But it also nullifies it against me.

Ok you heard him folks.
Toss your coin.
Head you vote him
Tail you don't

Flavor Leaf

,

Rami Malek

, a

Leading Actor

aligned with the

Mafia

lynched Day 5

[Shirou]

Subject: TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

EDITION #2 - "You're being too defensive for scumreading me for flimsy/bad pushes. So pressured. It was all for reactions. This is just my town meta."

so damn sensitive to getting even a tiny bit of pressure, hot damn

Volpe wouldn't know how to town read me if the mod whispered it into his ears 30 days a year for the next 3 years.

if anything this is even more in my town meta

both you and Norwee that is the case for, so learn how to be scum read without crying about it

y'all fucking know I do things to get reactions out of players, so you seriously need thicker skin

I am taking a fucking break from this game.

If you think im fucking going to quit in fucking Team Mafia,

you're the most surface level player I've ever met

Flavor Leaf

-

Untrod tripod Underground member

; Mikasa Ackerman

- eliminated Day 5

[Shirou]

Subject: TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

EDITION#3 - The Chosen One themselves

i was bullshitting to get a better read and i had tonal feels that were like metal covers micro game where i caught infinity so thats why i was interested in pushing there first

i dont appeal to my scumreads

are u trying to subtly shade me for shifting my reads without interacting with u? lol

i am still evaluating and poking wiht pressure.

leaning not SvS though ill conclude at least that much and pressure on FB will help sort him better IMO

maybe because its something NAI for me to say bc its common fucking sense

I don't know about you guys, but to me it seems like DKKoba lied about her teammates participation in this game (Nancy about Auro), which to me is particularly very scum-indicative, and if DK is town and just lied for the sake of "putting Auro on edge" or something, it sounds quite silly and it's their fault, not mine, that it looks bad on them.

It may look like minor but other than being intentionally silly, there's 0 reason for town to fake teammates participation in the game and

DKKoba ISO is already full of "I'm playing 5D chess but in truth it just looks like random, but believe me it all makes sense somehow".

In a recent page skim I've also noted some players saying that being this messy/scummy is "DKKoba's meta" and I just want to say I think it's bad reasoning

.

Nero Cain is also someone known for "scummy posting" as town, but in Fungus Mafia he actually rolled scum, and when I was making my case on him, everyone was too sure he was town because..."his town meta is being scummy".

Mathblade replaces DkKoba effective immediately.

Winners

chennisden - Quick Attack
Flopz - Team 'Team 'Team' Team' Team
Lilith2013 - Daylight Savings Time
Infinity 324 - The Four Seasons (Autumn Leaves)
Menalque - Ship of Theseus
Joqiza - Onlyregfans
Shirou - All your Scummies belong to us

Losers

JohnnyFarrar - Mask Your Worries
Auro - Loyal Servants

Mathblade - Suicide Squad

[Shirou]

Is flavor leaf in the room with us right now?

don't worry Edition 3 has you as its star already

gotta share the spotlight a bit

I do think you're similar to FL though so that's why I'm also talking about him, repeatedly saying you're gonna carry town, we wouldn't get scum!you, doing plays beyond what we can see, etc

[Shirou]

Subject: Mini Normal 2138 | Fungi Mafia | Game Over!

BONUS EDITION#4 - Eh it's just a bonus

VOTE: Nero

I don't feel he's as town as people are making it out to be

What exactly is town from him?

He has mostly sit on Popop during the game, and went along with the main lynches in Jake/Peter when they popped up.

Luna said "meta" but dunno, he doesn't feel very engaged in this game in the first place.

Alternatively I could do Alch, let me mull over it more.

find game reasons to hard town read him if that's what you guys are go with. I can see a world where he's simply town, but I don't feel bad lynching him at all.

> I eventually buy the kool-aid that his scumminess is just "meta" given most of the game town reads him
>result:

Game is over,

The Mafia team of Saudade,

Nero

and NorwegianboyEE wins!

[Shirou]

I've extensive experience with people trying to use their meta to excuse stuff that can hide a scum agenda and as you can see the results speak for themselves, it's not a good idea to just let that fly

You're once again pivoting on what looks like an easier target Koba and I guess I'm supposed to not have you explain yourself because "muh it's my thing"?

[Shirou]

VOTE: italiano I have gotten all I need for now

Ready to end day

> The push on me doesn't work
> People talk about sussing italiano
> Instant pivot back to italiano

Very towny ISO. The Amazon Forest has nothing on the amount of green I see here.

[Shirou]

You don't get to get a solid ping on me that's accurate until day 2 or 3

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh my god I don't think I quoted those parts but that feels almost word-to-word what FL said as well, not that it

really

means something on the grand scale of things but it's funny and a creepy coincidence to me

"You can't have a read on me just like that, you need to do ROCKET SCIENCE to read me, I'm quantum physics in human form."

[Shirou]

You are so delusional and are bad at paying attention to the game you're in

You push me and imply you've been "cooking" a SeKrEt read, then instantly seems to give up on it and go back to the consensus wagon from the first pages, and I'm supposed to think what? It's some good posting?

I'm delusional if I think you're objectively scummy and the unique reason that people may disagree is again, excusing your odd behavior for "meta"?

[Shirou]

"omg Koba switched back to italiano after saying they will vote them EoD and was just voting around for extra info to not make the day stale"

You implied you were gonna set for Italiano here:

I'm pretty sure this is Town ydra and aisa(tbf haven't seen aisa scumgame)

but italiano is a definite path for today

However, later on you said:

aisa feels very cognizant in their recentish posts of thread happenings and is incorporating a lot of it into their reads in a way i think that i dont see them as a player personality wise being able to replicate as scum

i have a very strong sense of Doom right now like that I am wrong about everything (minus the above) and I need to do something Else and I can't shake it.

i also am still waiting on my sister to show up so we can go out for 4/20 zz

However now you're talking again as if you never thought about voting elsewhere off Italiano as a matter of fact. No attempt on hinting you've paranoia nope.

Are you gonna handwave this with "it's my meta to be inconsistent" again? Or are we getting a cooler "I reconsidered for the tenth time in a few days because I'm just so good", coincindentally when Ydra/Deas shaded Italiano again and no one piled up on me on our 1v1?

[Shirou]

all you had to push was that you being like this is NAI with game proof and I would have approached that angle

You talk as if I want to make peace with you atm. I don't.

Defending himself with too many meta examples of stuff being "NAI" is a scum!Shirou thing to in fact and my last scum game modded by FB was full of it

My Town motto on the other hand is

"Attack is the best defense"

.

[Shirou]

If you're town demonstrating in detail what you wondered about and how you determined you were right could like, help others sort you correctly then?

[Shirou]

Or you think it's reasonable to tell us to want content from other people explaining themselves but don't wanna do it yourself?

[Shirou]

Hyperfocusing on me won't help you even if we're in a theoretical me!scum world if you're town.

I'm most declaring you the long lost sibling of FL.

Hyperfocusing on the slots I want to sort or lim is literally what "helps" me into achieving my wincon as town (even my theoretical scum wincon). It's insane to argue otherwise. What am I supposed to do in the world where I'm right about you? Stay quiet and vote together with you on Italiano or something?

I'm letting you know you aren't really convincing anyone other than those who are already hard set on me except the scum who are likely yet to go on me because it would out them.

You can repeat it to yourself that no one is gonna be convinced I've a point towards as much as you want, but DeasVail already partially agreed with me on having an issue with you and he wasn't already "hard set" on scum!Koba. Saying that only scum would find you suspicious now is preemptive shading.

[Shirou]

I'm not answering your questions because your basis is flawed and until you change it I have no point in discussing it with you lol

You wanted me to have defended myself by linking you stuff about my meta, so you expect others to defend themselves and answer you, but others can't expect the same from you?

Have you ever heard about double standards?

[Shirou]

what is your read between me/italiano? Do you think that we are reasonably paired? Is italiano towny?

I've you as nullscum potentially entering scumlean territory in my readlist only behind Mala,and Italiano as nulltown for the AtE

I want Italiano to take firm stances and do something though, so I hope to see him taking a stance on this 1v1 for example.

About whether you're are paired...I'm not making an associative right now? I think most of them don't work anyway and this one would be flimsy at best.

[Shirou]

and to hedge on me perhaps being wrong on you, is there any way to convince you to not feel "entitled" to it this time and play like everyone else?

[Shirou]

If Italiano flipped town where would you look next?

[Shirou]

If Italiano flipped town where would you look next?

I would likely move up my PoE of which next I'd xof but at the same time reeval any townread slots that may have been based on italiano ->It's important to note I read ppl independently, sort by towniness, and then look at plausibility of being teamed.

I'll correct my past self actually

Your xof scumlean is your unique take I feel it's distinctly "original"/novel from you this game so far

Wanna expand on it? I don't think you did in your past posts?

[Shirou]

Actually, how are you reading me slot right now Koba? This is important for something else I may have noticed

[Shirou]

Okay playing with Koba was uh, a bit amusing, I was going to push it for a few more days to see where that left me/how many votes I could get by the end but we only have 4 days and half left so I need to get serious/focus on my number 1 priority

UNVOTE:

I think I've finally a suspect that doesn't leave me with the feeling I can somewhat easily be wrong on, and that's not Koba, neither Malakittens although I do still find both of their ISO to be uninspiring. No...

My team may end up thinking I'm being very silly and batshit insane since they all seem to townread my ~newfound~ moderately confident SR but...I can't unsee it anymore right now. So to be dramatic, the choosen one is...!!!

[Shirou]

You!

VOTE: Ausuka

[Shirou]

Sorry if I'm wrong bestie, my teammates will probably think I've gone completely crazy given they're all town reading you but I'm

really

feeling you got a red role PM here.

You were initially null to me, then some of your interactions with Italiano began to make me squint but I talked it out with my team and they all town read you, FB in particular was vowing for town!you pretty hard given he had called you scum in that large where you fooled everyone, he argued the way you approached that game as scum was pretty different and if you were scum you would be throwing away more reads, so I bought that fish he was selling me then but...

Your posts kept bugging me so I decided to check your last scum game/town game. I don't see the meta case FB said in your defense there, I feel the opposite in fact, you sound more like you were in the finished Mini Normal 2294 as scum than in your last town games.

This primarily

ISN'T

a meta read though. I only went out of my way to check whether I was hallucinating or not on the behavior I was sussing you for being potentially scum indicative. It's similar to how in Open 870 I suspected Datisi and only went out of my way to check his meta

after

that for a sanity-check. My feelings back then were the same as now, I thought what he was doing in that game was more likely than not scum-indicative for him and reading his meta only reinforced the feelings I may be right.

[Shirou]

In my defense I'm often this friendly with at least one person in games so I would argue it's very NAI for me given how common it is

Is pocketing people by joking with them or being nice a scum tactic which you employ often?

Hmm, well yeah a bit? I do it as either alignment like I said above, contrary to what some people may think I do like being nice to people when I can!

What I'm trying to ask is, when you're scum, do you do this with the specific idea to pocket people?

It's half because of my personality and the other half because it's advantageous for my wincon yeah

Her posts aren't

bad

but at the same time it's mostly questioning other people without much input on a game solve from herself, and it feels like busywork at certain points given in the above she asks me twice for what I see as the same topic, not to mention I had already said it was NAI for me from the start.

Even if it was to clarify whether I did it completely for being me or as strictly as game advantageous, I do think her definition of pocketing not including being "nice"/humoring the other player as not something I would expect from town!Ausuka solving in her full capacity. Could it be a wrong expectation? Probably but it's what I believe in.

It was back when DKKoba had first voted me so I saw it as more her coming up with something to interact w/ me for shading or busywork than because it would help her sort my slot. Other than a scumread on Italiano that didn't see a lot of progress through the days, I don't think Ausuka visibly progressed in her reads too much from her questioning, apart from Ydra which was a wacky interaction to me by itself (can expand on it later).

So far Ausuka has felt to me like she's trying to look like she's solving more than actually coming around a gamesolve, and her questions purpose being to question/indirectly shade something itself rather than get an insight from the other's party reply.

I'm pretty tired right now but I'll try to keep expanding on this read in the following days. I wonder if I still have enough energy or time to push this today though.

[Shirou]

I've wondered if Italiano/Ausuka could be a bus, but at the moment I think:

> Ausuka interactions toward Italiano potentially feels like a bus

> Italiano interactions towards Ausuka doesn't feel like a bus, it feels like he's struggling to understand her rather than focusing on distancing/looking good on each other flips

[Shirou]

so I think scum!Ausuka softclears Italiano for me at least in the first few days but I need to revisit this vibe read because I can be wrong

[Shirou]

I think Ausuka is scum, if Italiano is scum with her or not I don't know, my guess is no.

I think she has probably distanced herself from at least one partner if scum though so I do wonder about that Ydra interaction or her Koba/Malakittens questioning

I don't know, maybe I'm assuming too much before she replies to me/flips though

p-edit: Well semantic discussion aside, do you disagree with my take that you've done a lot of questioning but hasn't given a lot of stances/explaining your stances in the game so far?

[Shirou]

Ok please show me where he is "struggling to understand me"

Here:

What do you think town would have done differently there?

No I wasn't actually scumreading Koba

Town does a lot of different things, so who knows, but I would've taken it in stride and kept an eye on them. My point is why ask a question if your vote is a forgone conclusion. To clarify, I'm not saying your vote was, but that's how I perceived it. You asked, I answered, my answers weren't good enough for you, vote.

Ok, so what about that suggests it was a foregone conclusion? Isn't that just contradictory to the idea that your answers weren't good enough?

My perception.

It's such a "Really...?" post, it's a bit contradicting in the way he said it, but I did also feel like you were asking certain things at some points that were meant to publicly signal your next move rather than having the answer make you consider where you stand.

I haven't felt you ever doubted your initial conclusions on Italiano and I do agree at moment with his "perception" that you were always gonna vote him and your interactions with him were only to establish a supposed motive.

[Shirou]

If.italiano flips scum at any point Shirou needs to die 100% of the time

I wouldn't mind honestly, I think I'm proxy protecting Italiano at the moment by pushing other people rather than collectively pilling up on him like most are doing, however even if Italiano was flipped scum today, and me tomorrow, I still would want/argue to see you flipped in D3 then.

[Shirou]

Well semantic discussion aside, do you disagree with my take that you've done a lot of questioning but hasn't given a lot of stances/explaining your stances in the game so far?

Yeah I think your take is horseshit

Why? Saying you're doing more than other slots is pretty fair and I realize it may be incredibly frustrating in that scenario to be pushed if you're town here, however effort ultimately isn't alignment indicative especially for you I think. You put effort in your scum games so Italiano issue aside, how is that not a description of your play here vs most other town games where I saw you be more whimsical about your reads/sharing takes.

[Shirou]

I also went "HMMM" on you being so seemingly uninterested on the development of me vs Koba

You posted exactly 2 minutes after Xof first popped in, so it implies you were around following the game, but to me you didn't give a clear stance on what you think of it while everyone else that posted in that time-frame (Kowah, DeasVail, Ydra and Xof) all did.

You questioned me a bit early on but you were more exploring potential explanations for Koba behavior rather than pushing forward how you see it

[Shirou]

maybe because if I'm doing more than other slots that implies I'm not doing nothing and you said I was doing nothing

I never said "nothing". Now that's twisting/exaggerating my words. I even recognized you were putting more effort than some other slots.

do you disagree with my take that you've done a lot of questioning but

hasn't given

a lot

of stances/explaining your stances in the game so far?

Also, I said you were doing a lot of something (questioning) but not a lot of something else

[Shirou]

I don't see why you expect me to engage with your points when you have totally ignored mine the entire time

I don't think I ignored you at all? Perhaps you found my answers lacking, but I tried to reply everything you/others threw at me in some capacity.

I feel you're once again exaggerating what I said or did to establish false narratives right now...

I do admit to have done it towards Koba a bit as well but I do think this is more interesting coming from you than from me considering how we're

[Shirou]

Like, I may have missed one but tell me one of your questions that I didn't try replying

When did I ignore you?

[Shirou]

The italiano thing? You didn't respond to anything I said, you just said "town for ate lol"

I think that still doesn't count as ignoring, but I'll admit on hindsight I thought I had given a more in-depth reply than this

Shirou are you mad at me
Also I think you said you were going to read over italiano, did anything come of that

Oh sorry I forgot to reply your question, no I'm not mad at you why would I be?

about italiano...did I actually promise that? I read his AtE posts and felt it was genuine and DGB backed off (I saw her as the one giving the most credibility to the push because I don't remember exactly which games, but I've the mental image of her as a very capable town player), I'll probably do it at some point but I'm afraid not today

I don't think this is really

ignoring

but eh, I confess it was definitely lower effort compared to some of my other replies to Ydra or pocketing for example.

[Shirou]

Maybe I should do that too

Koba is town for ate

There I've made a stance

I did just expand to you about Italiano though as well

Is any other answer than "I also scumread Italiano and wanna lim him" like most of the game so unacceptable?

[Shirou]

I'm not sure anyone has been as monotone about their read on Italiano as much as you

I think a lot of people second-guessed themselves with their AtE and in general have been interested in more slots rather than just him, but after a brief spat with Ydra, you conclude she's scum but isn't as interested on her as Italiano as far as I can see

One of the big reasons I'm so hesitant about Italiano is that this a large part of this game has revolved around shading/voting him by slots that I'm not comfortable with.

[Shirou]

actually substantiating your statement that he is "struggling to understand me"

What does "substantiating" could even mean then to you?

I quoted a post that made me feel like he was puzzled about your engagement with him, sending an emoji expressing that and all.

What else can I even do to "substantiate" other than quoting the exact post that made me think something? Write a P.h.D thesis about a interaction that lasted a few posts?

[Shirou]

Also the irony of your read on me vs your read on Italiano is pretty palpable.

In your own words:

come on the guy just is not here that's different.

But also, you're dismissing his read list as "activity bases sorting" at the same time he has Aisa/Malakittens (not inactive but not that active) as top town reads over me, by far the most active one.

You can say his ISO is bad without trying to dismiss everything he has done, I feel he has pushed a gamesolve including town reads in far less time than you've been here for.

[Shirou]

Whatever I will dip for now so the thread isn't spammed too much I will respond to anything else you have to say later ^.^

Bye-bye~

[Shirou]

[] - just town
[] - townlean
[Mastina, DrippingGoofball, Aisa, ItalianoVD] - nulltown
[DeasVail, Kowahbunga, , Xofelf, Ydrasse, Arko] - null
[DkKoba, Malakittens] - nullscum
[Ausuka] - scumlean
[] - just scum

I think this is where I'm at right now, lacking people on the townlean category. I don't have much confidence on not being wrong in my nulltown tier somewhere. Arko was demoted to null and kowah was "promoted" back to null from nullscum since last readlist.

[Shirou]

LOCKTOWN Shirou

If you call me locktown in capslock like this I'm can't help but BLUSH, DGB!

[Shirou]

It was worth repeating.

It was!

Probably?!

If Arko wagon doesn't happen as we approach deadline would you then be willing to become my new BESTIE and stand in SOLIDARITY with me on Ausuka wagon?

[Shirou]

Nobody else is scummy enough or really all that close,

or they're inactives which i don't really want to wagon someone who isn't doing anything

because i think

it's pretty useless until there's actually enough will to present a threat to them

You have argued that Italiano hasn't done anything in the game so doesn't he fit in the inactive classification as well?

I know in the next line you say then that it's useless to pressure someone like that without there being multiple votes, so therefore I assume the explanation for pushing Italiano even if he's kinda inactive as well is that he already has a wagon on him, however it does strike me as something town!Ausuka wouldn't give this much thought about

Now this is just my impression without much to back up, but you don't strike me as the kind of player to go "who and what is the most effective way to pressure in this gamestate" rather than a more free/whimsical "welp you look like scum (vote)". I think saying you've been focusing on Italiano because he's by far your biggest scumread makes me squint a bit but it's possible, however trying to excuse your focus on him with "there's nothing else to do/no one else to attempt sorting" is a bit stretchy.

For example, I do think you could have dug deeper into sorting Ydrasse if you suspected her, and also scum reads aren't the unique sorting there is to be done, I don't think you've shared much "townhunting" content either.

[Shirou]

If you thought she was scum why would you about the "implications" that much really?

[Shirou]

If you thought she was scum

why would you think

about the "implications" that much really?

[Shirou]

Here's the timeline of what happened:

VOTE: Ydrasse
Science.

this wagon won't bear fruit so i suggest elsewhere atm
return to it later if you want but not rn

going to reiterate this and hope people think for more than 2 seconds about the implications

Ok then Ydrasse says for you to think about the implications, and I engage with you about how Ydrasse doesn't quite feel like Dance Game regardless of how important that fact is for you read on her. And you just insist that Ydra is scummy:

@Ausuka given you're voting ydra now, aside from the not believing ydra's read on xof/you, do you think ydra is playing to her "scum meta" in general with her posts?

It's not a meta read? I've only played with scum ydrasse once in the dance game. I don't think I put much focus on her slot in general there, but looking back, I don't see any significant difference that would impact my read. I think her play overall in this game has been, like, pretty thoroughly unimpressive and I don't get the vibe at all she is like, more engaged here than she was in that game or whatever. She is much more keen to ask leading questions to me than to actually talk about Kowabungah who she is actually voting for example - her only comment on him is saying he's "either very towny new or very wolfy new." While also criticising me for not making an entire case post. She doesn't feel genuine this game.

I recommend you to take a peek on her ISO in the Dance Game again

I had that same impression and I changed my mind on it on a revisit

If you think there's something wrong there, can you just say it? I mean, I revisited it, and I don't see anything obvious that would change my read. Like she was more jokey but that was a dance game and they're supposed to be fun - i don't expect people to play every game exactly the same if they are the same alignment. If I am going to make a meta read, I'd prefer to have an established pattern of behaviour over multiple games, rather than trying to find some difference between two different games to make reads.

The whole convo is bigger than this but it would be too big to quote it all I think.

[Shirou]

Not all of us get into tunnels on day 1

so, dunno, you kept your scum read on Ydra but at the same time backed off really quickly

Realistically I think you would only do one of them as town but /shrug

[Shirou]

If you believe the soft how is she scummy

those two don't go together in my head. I ignore any kind of "implication" from someone I consider a scum read, and if I believe someone "implication" I automatically start to consider them townier.

I'll admit it can be a me thing though.

[Shirou]

Shea tells me to tell you to 'fuck off and let us cook'

Tell shea I want to eat fried frog today tho

[Shirou]

Also like, if you think Italiano is scum, and I "100%" need to die if Italiano flips scum, don't you think you're being a bit soft on how you treat me?

I don't feel you're approaching me as the evil italiano scum buddy that wants to proxy protect him by limming you, I feel you're mostly approaching me as wrong town

I do appreciate being treated as town in fact, but it does contradict a bit what seemed to be your worldview here

[Shirou]

Shea says paraphrased that he thinks you're reaction testing and it's very unhelpful

I'm really not reaction testing. Sorry If I'm wrong and just being bad right now but I do genuinely scum read you quite a bit atm.

[Shirou]

I think you are probably town but if italiano is scum you need to die at some point for your treatment of him this game day

I think there is a limit to how much pro-scum action towns should tolerate, generally

Saying you town lean me but I need to die anyway is kinda a scum take I also said in my game but ok, not impossible you think that way

However, objectively speaking, what am I even doing other than push someone I think is scum? I made a point in defense of Italiano about your argument on the "perception" stuff but I don't think it's an unreasonable take, Aisa even agreed to my point as well.

I think Italiano is more likely town than not atm but it's not that strong as I've said, it's mostly that your/others arguments for why he's scum haven't been that convincing to me just like mine about Koba weren't to you/some others.

If Koba was scum, should I interpret that you're necessarily scum for pushing Italiano as a "counterwagon"?

It may sound arrogant but the difference between me and other people not voting Italiano right now is mostly that I'm louder so me pushing a slot warps the gamestate a bit harder than when others do it perhaps, but that's like, just me being me...? It's hard for me to play differently, it's my style.

But meh, I'm resigned to accept being suspected if I'm fucking it up and Italiano is scum similarly to a town game one year ago, it's just that...I kinda think you're busing in that scenario anyway so after me I would still prob want you next .-.

[Shirou]

Saying you town lean me but I need to die anyway is kinda a scum take I also said in my game but ok

, not impossible you think that way

I meant "a scum take I also said in my last scum game".

[Shirou]

but what does silly me

who can't even think about the game know

do you mean it sarcastically or are you mean it unironically right now?

I interpreted it as sarcasm but just to confirm

[Shirou]

Should I go through all of my scum games and find things in common with what you did here

I think saying someone is probably town but they need to die anyway isn't something "common" to see at all

It's not just any kind of common behavior/take imo

[Shirou]

but what does silly me

who can't even think about the game know

do you mean it sarcastically or are you mean it unironically right now?

I interpreted it as sarcasm but just to confirm

You said you don't think town ausuka would think about the game and who to push...

Ok maybe you really are scum Ausuka.

What I meant was that you wouldn't think how "effective" the pressure was too much compared to just voting people and seeing where that goes:

as the kind of player to go "who and what is the most effective way to pressure in this gamestate" rather than a more free/whimsical "welp you look like scum (vote)"

I think interpreting the above as me saying town!you doesn't think about the game is...rude Ausuka, and I never meant to be rude to you.

It may as well be confbias at this point however I don't think that's what most people would interpret in the above either. Someone sanity check me.

All I really meant is that I feel town!you enjoys directly taking actions more than pondering about exactly how theoretically effective a push on X person could be to generate content or so in a given gamestate. I myself do subscribe to this "just vote/push scummy people" philosophy and I don't think it's because "I don't think about the game"

[Shirou]

You're among my favorite people in this PL and I want to believe you're town/don't wanna be wrong on you but it gets harder and harder to keep faith alive...

[Shirou]

I don't think you've the power to veto anything here Koba...but if you mean you aren't willing to compromise a vote on her even if deadline comes, sure I guess?

[Shirou]

@Ausuka perhaps I'm warping the game a bit too much now with the insistent pressure on you atm

It feels like the right course of action if I could guarantee being right but history has taught me that I can't so in the chances I'm wrong I'll

try

to give you

some

space for a bit, for you to "cook something" perhaps, Idk.

I'll make it clear though, if Koba begins to argue for what I consider nonsense defense or I feel like you're making disingenuous arguments I

will

point it out and go back to hard pressuring without letting the thread breath

I wish we had at least one more week for more content in this slowish game but I'll try to personally slow down on the death marching I'm doing at the moment towards you for what I (in my pov) see as the small chance I'm wrong about your alignment