Mini 2308 | Blood over Utopia | Utopia fell.

[RCEnigma]

First post is scummy

VOTE: Roden

I haven’t read anything about the setup and it looks complicated so by law you can only ask me about soulreads until otherwise specified. Ty.

[RCEnigma]

We get the results of everything the following day I assume? If that’s the case I like sacrifice, 3-fold benefit.

We get an immediate result, we can NoKill on it, and it doesn’t finance insurgence.

Also gonna make a leap and assume they can block projects at night.

[RCEnigma]

I like the printing press for a second option though.

[RCEnigma]

For my first game back in 6 months yeah I’d love to be the day 1 sacrifice thanks.

[RCEnigma]

Does 3 or 4 sound right? I’d hate to waste money on something we can deduce without it.

[RCEnigma]

Scum, there are only 13 of us and NK isn’t modding (not a dig, just the only person I’ve seen with 5 v 8 setups)

[RCEnigma]

Jury is a good one too. But sacrifice is beneficial to town and we use it in place of the execution vote is all I’m saying.

[RCEnigma]

If we sacrifice, I’d rather not also take a shot with an execute in case we double down on town cannibalization…

[RCEnigma]

Well…if we use sacrifice on an insurgent they don’t die… but they are outed. Would we still get the 20k extra on the next days budget?

[RCEnigma]

why would printing press be useful instead of just... unlocking the things?

It would be silly to assume we can unlock everything. So going down a path blind seems equally silly.

[RCEnigma]

Are those 4 the only categories there are gonna be?

[RCEnigma]

I'm concerned by the yellow warning for wind in the late evening.

I saw that too, the weather is gonna be relevant. I think clouding and rainfall apply to scum activities that are not active for the first two days.

@Mod

request to gift merlyn.

[RCEnigma]

If those are the only groups of actions we get then yeah I see your point. It’s the same as spending to get the scum number. It’s derivable.

We can’t do 2 developments but I like jury and maybe the extra invest actions.

[RCEnigma]

But we can't bank money. So it's another 60k tomorrow. I think that fact that printing press is an option implies that in future days there will be assignments that cost more than 60k.

If on, say, day 3, an amazing assignment is available for 80k we will have to vote in printing press more than once and we won't be able to get amazing assignment till day 6 at the earliest. unless we keep up with printing press from the start we're really choosing to put any future high priced assignments out of our reach

I think you mean trading post.

We can’t bank but we can get up to 90k with trading post and a sacrifice.

[RCEnigma]

Marci prob!town and I like Merlyn for town.

[RCEnigma]

Curated PT is more +Town than the extra vote.

[RCEnigma]

why would printing press be useful instead of just... unlocking the things?

It would be silly to assume we can unlock everything. So going down a path blind seems equally silly.

There's only three unlock developments. I don't see anything that indicates there will be more unlockables after that. The game making it through three nights seems pretty likely to me. Especially since scum may not have a nightkill. So yes, I think unlocking all three categories seems quite possible. Voting manipulation seems like a waste, though. Having non-standard vote weights is generally considered useless or antitown. So as much fun as it would be to campaign for mayor, I think ignoring those is probably the better way to go.

I mostly meant using all possible options is likely to be budget gated, not that we can’t unlock a new tier each day.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: penguin power this is a utopia, penguins have exactly the right amount of power[/vote]

HURT: neighborhood watch to not have day talk early on could be more damaging then later when there a groove.

I also support printing press, it's pretty clear later stuff is gonna cost more than the current budget and if we don't keep up increasing it it may be days before we can pick something really good.

If you mean Trading Outpost to up the budget to 70k, I disagree. I initially felt like it was an obviously good choice but then I realized the budget doesn't carry over so the extra value is lost if it's not used. And there's very few ways to get an exactly 70k daily spend right now, even fewer of which seem any good. If there's something really cool that unlocks later and needs the boost we can go for the upgrade then. Remember, we can't use developments more than once so 70k is the most our regular daily budget will be and something like Sacrifice that gives a temporary boost will be needed in order to get a larger amount.

So possibly we want to wait to use Sacrifice. I was thinking our chances of hitting scum were worst on day one so the benefit was most likely to kick in, but was overlooking that it was separately handled by whoever voted for it rather than a function tacked onto the elimination, so that could be a bit alarming if scum are voting for it.

HURT: Bureau of Investigations

What do you mean by the last part? That only the people that vote sacrifice get a say on the target? I dunno how you got there.

[RCEnigma]

yeah thats what im saying! its good but since we can only do things once i feel like we need to save it

if we remove it now wouldnt it be an advantage to them to make them seem more townie?

We can do non-development projects twice, just not on the same day and not on consecutive days.

- Alianna

Saving our first Neighborhood Watch until Day 3 seems like the most effective choice. Maybe combine it with the Census that day? That seems like a combo that would panic the scum team.

Ooh I like this. Why day 3 though?

It’s potentially unusable if you wait till day 3 no? Especially if sacrifice is used today or D2.

[RCEnigma]

Votecount 1-I

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer.

flavor

Spoiler:

execution votes

Roden (2):

Cat Scratch Fever (9), RCEnigma (20)

RCEnigma (2):

Roden (8), Deal With The Devil (72)

Deal With The Devil (1):

JasonWazza (6)

PenguinPower (1):

Merlyn (33)

Merlyn (1):

PenguinPower (74)

Not voting (6):

Random Nurse, HighFlyingDwarf, camelCasedSnivy, SirCakez, Aureal, marcistar

projects votes

Trading Outpost (3):

Roden (8), marcistar (43), camelCasedSnivy (71)

Printing Press (1):

JasonWazza (6)

Bureau of Investigations (1):

Cat Scratch Fever (12)

Sacrifice (1):

Aureal (16)

Neighborhood Watch (1):

Merlyn (33)

Intelligentia (1):

PenguinPower (74)

Not voting (5):

Deal With The Devil, Random Nurse, HighFlyingDwarf, RCEnigma, SirCakez

notes

• The Deadline is due in (expired on 2023-08-08 09:00:00).
  
• Random Nurse is V/LA on Thursdays, Frydays and Saturdays.
  
• I reiterate that each Utopian may vote for only one project. Whenever a post attempts to cast more than one such vote, like 74, only the last one counts.

Also, RCE has some explaining to do re: the latest publication.

I definitely didn’t bribe the press to publish that.

- Alianna

I did try to warn you all! Now they won’t stop till blood is spilled!

[RCEnigma]

why would printing press be useful instead of just... unlocking the things?

It would be silly to assume we can unlock everything. So going down a path blind seems equally silly.

There's only three unlock developments. I don't see anything that indicates there will be more unlockables after that. The game making it through three nights seems pretty likely to me. Especially since scum may not have a nightkill. So yes, I think unlocking all three categories seems quite possible. Voting manipulation seems like a waste, though. Having non-standard vote weights is generally considered useless or antitown. So as much fun as it would be to campaign for mayor, I think ignoring those is probably the better way to go.

I mostly meant using all possible options is likely to be budget gated, not that we can’t unlock a new tier each day.

What? Your position isn't making any sense. You don't think we can unlock everything, except you do? What does the budget have to do with anything?

No. We can spend 4 days and unlock all the developments, I don’t doubt that. But I do doubt we can use everything we have now and everything that gets unlocked. Does that make sense? Or else what is the budget even for?

[RCEnigma]

What do you mean by the last part? That only the people that vote sacrifice get a say on the target? I dunno how you got there.

By reading the game rules.

Some projects require targets. When one such project is undertaken, Utopians who voted for it are added to a Council PT overnight to decide its targets. If they can't make up their minds, the targets are randomized.

Gotchya

[RCEnigma]

Okay then i still think there is merit to using sacrifice today, everyone votes it so it’s basically the day lim with 20k added on and the development we want is voted by 2 players.

If the next tier of unlocks is 70k+ we still get to push it through without using the trading post.

[RCEnigma]

Fine by me.

[RCEnigma]

Sacrifice ($0)

-- if target Utopian is not an Insurgent, they die and town gets $20,000 more in tomorrow's budget.

vs

Trading Outpost ($20,000)

-- ups the daily budget to $70,000.

theres a difference in wording

sacrifice is a one time gain, trading post is not.

sacrifice is so beyond useless right now, why are we AIMING to get a townie killed when we should be preserving our numbers? sacrifice will be much more useful when we KNOW WHAT WE WANT TO DO WITH THE $$

Are we just not voting for a lim today then?

[RCEnigma]

My point is sacrifice can just be the regular lim but we get paid for it.

But ehh I’m not gonna argue more for it

HURT: trading post

[RCEnigma]

Reminds me about the neighborhood watch thing, it’s disabled with less than 8 players. So better utility later but we aren’t guaranteed to be able to use it X days down the line.

[RCEnigma]

No, Census is the one with the 8 player requirement

mixing all of these up is gonna be too easy for me.

[RCEnigma]

Just going to say this, we don't know what area will have useful upgrades (investigative might just have duds), hence printing press, but I guess I'm kinda being overruled on that.

HURT: Marriage

UNVOTE: Deal with the Devil
VOTE: RCEnigma

Not that it matters to you now but, same boat. Would prefer knowing what we can do with the budget and make an informed decision from there.

[RCEnigma]

Can I ask people voting for Trading Post to explain what combinations they want to use which would require the extra budget? I feel like there's just been an assumption we're going to need them.

The assumption is upgraded investigative will cost more. So that and census potentially. I’m also interested in inquiry d3 onward. It leads me to believe insurgents can make the mod lie or give a false result at some point. But it’s kind of costly and more useful to use on an action that has 1-2 targets at most.

[RCEnigma]

Suspicion on cakes is perfectly fine so I don’t really get Drew’s defense of it. Cakes experience doesn’t even change wether or not they do X Y or Z as either alignment.

It’s too early but dispassionate disengaged posting IS reminiscent of cakes scumgame in my experience with them.

Fos cake and drew for now.

[RCEnigma]

Well over a year ago since I’ve last played with them. Doesn’t change my experience of their game but I can see where you want to take it.

Also I’ve been away from mafia for 6-8 months so…

[RCEnigma]

He can seem listless as town as well, there is something specific I’m waiting on which is why I’m not ready to vote there yet. But I obviously can’t tell you what.

[RCEnigma]

funds we don't use just get given to the insurgents, who will have powers for themselves, and i think we're likely going to struggle to just spend the 60k we have.

Err you sure it works like that?

[RCEnigma]

Hi cakes, big fan. What do you think about the devil hydra so far? Outside of even the direct stuff dealing with you/Marci.

[RCEnigma]

When I was responding to Marci it was specifically about framing it as an extra kill when using it lieu of the day lim doesn’t cull numbers it’s just an alternative to it. The numbers don’t change.

I didn’t get Merlyn taking that as scummy since they never explained how it would be, in the context of using one over the other and not both.


Meow made me think maybe I was being anti town when they said not using the budget would fund scum for a second though.

[RCEnigma]

I guess my qualm with [p]181[/p] is - why is this something worth voting over when at least one person was going to be yeeted out via Sacrifice anyway? Two day eliminations is quite punishing for the town (Double Day setup is 13 town vs 3 scum), but even assuming that Merlyn doesn't know that, what is the material difference between the two options? It seems like a fairly minor point of disagreement imo.

Some of this is greek to me. No idea if you're right or wrong, no idea if that setup applies to this game. It is a fairly minor point, I have to give you that, but like, yeah and? What is anybody going to be pushing early D1 that's not a minor point? Your push on me is over something pretty minor.

I don't even like RC's responses (or non responses) to my vote. Basically they've let two other folks do the arguing for them- when they finally addressed it, it wasn't even to me directly, but to the two folks arguing in his favor. It feels lurky to me.

My take on Devil and Marci is TvT. Devil Drew is playing the way I've grown to expect him to as town which is looking for loose strings to pull and seeing if anything unravels. I get the thought process behind the snivy vote, don't know if I agree yet or not, but the vote itself is not inherently scummy. Marci's confidence strikes me as town, that kind of posting without careful evaluation and reevaluation I see from scum a lot.

I have to think more about the Cakez thing. My first impulse it that it's overblown but I don't know- it is kind of weird to say you're keeping your random vote stage vote until...I guess it's not more random? And then voting anyway, for a lurker. It's like little pings.

You never addressed to me what was even scummy about the idea. So it’s not productive for me to draw it out. Isn’t even an angle I was going to continue bringing up and I said as much.

[RCEnigma]

So when I first brought up sacrifice as an immediate result, I thought it worked like, if we use it and it hit a townie they would just flip and the action of getting extra budget would be a tomorrow thing. I didn’t read the rule about the targeting needing a council of only the people that voted it. So the alternative to me was have all players possible vote it to be in the council. Minus two, this makes it more like a duel mechanic but I can see the drawback of not having the two candidates present, that’s what the day phase is for though.

My counter to the 3 actions versus 2 thing is that I fully understand using sacrifice on top of the day elimination has the potential to put town in a hole. I don’t gamble that hard. But the day elim has the potential to hit town regardless and we get nothing from it where the sacrifice does still benefit town if we miss. Does that make sense? Mitigate the maximum damage by not using the day lim. Use the sacrifice which doesn’t fund scum at all this night phase, also get an extra pt with the town in it, possibly gain budget. The con is we might hit town but that’s a risk that exists even if sacrifice isn’t used.

I don’t see it is scum sided but enough people disagreed that I didn’t feel like it was worth pursuing anymore. I don’t think my mind is fully changed on utilizing it, but I’m not going to campaign more for its support.

Also I said Marci can use me for her sacrifice Guinea pig. The first time was sarcastic cuz yeah what a way to go in your first game back but the second time it’s fine, if they feel I’m the scum for bringing it up then go for it.

[RCEnigma]

I think that kind of addresses both random and Merlyn.

[RCEnigma]

Hi cakes, big fan. What do you think about the devil hydra so far? Outside of even the direct stuff dealing with you/Marci.

For visibility cakes.

[RCEnigma]

Lol I like you snivy.

[RCEnigma]

Anyone here think they are decent at reading roden?

[RCEnigma]

@Mod

is Autopsy revealed as public information or is it revealed to voters of autopsy only?

[RCEnigma]

A kill would have to be 60k then no?

[RCEnigma]

You overestimate the amount of effort penguin is willing to put into D1.

[RCEnigma]

i don't exactly expect penguin to be posting walls of analysis, or word salad like i do, but i think i'm right to be concerned by his posts on this page

who should i be voting instead? were you concerned about merlyn's read on you?

I’m not viewing the game the way you would, so telling people where their vote should be isn’t my thing.

I’m not that concerned about merlyns read on me. I’m used to people seeing unpopular Mech plans come from me and gut reaction being that it’s scummy. Which is probably a mix of me not fleshing out my thought process or it being more convoluted than I’m able to explain properly. On top of me not really being a strong Mech player.

And that could come from scum sure, but I KNOW that it comes from town a lot so I’m not reading them pushing me directly as anything alignment indicative.

They backed off when I got deeper into it, or realized they couldn’t justify the thought process as scummy in context. Which is fine, I think they are still keeping an eye on me which leans townish.

[RCEnigma]

Also I did have Merlyn townie early and it was really only based interactions with aureal and my read on aureal is still purely tone based. I didn’t write it down anywhere but Merlyn slipped for me somewhere around page 10 (can’t tell you why exactly off the top of my head) but it made me feel better about aureal in the same way that drew/cakes situation made me feel better about cakes and worse about drew.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: FL

I’ll regret it if I don’t.

[RCEnigma]

Hydra dissonance is my favorite part of mafia…

Sniped by pengu

[RCEnigma]

FL is gonna sweet talk me into not suspecting him and that’s just going to make me suspect him more and then he’s going to flip the read and try to pin me on something minute that I won’t exactly have an answer for but will make us tunnel each other for a bit. Then I’ll think he’s town for it but keep a pocket scumread on him so he can’t see me keeping tabs on him till it’s too late. But he’ll expect me to do that because town him would expect me to do that and I’ll go back to tunneling because my gut was right. Then we will eventually land on town reading each other until one of us tries to vigi the other or one of us gets nked.

End scene.

[RCEnigma]

Idk about Merlyn anymore, I think she's probably town. Her little tinfoil thing about Alianna on the last page felt like it was coming from a town mindset trying to spot TMI, and she seems to be reassessing with new info. Her tone felt a bit defensive but that could just be a personal thing

I think meowmeow and RCEnigma are town

I don't think anything Penguin has done so far is really scum indicative for him

VOTE: Cakez

Don’t really have anything of value to add to this I just like this post.

[RCEnigma]

But like why tho

because i think there may be more intent than simply a misunderstanding

that's the only ping I've gotten all game zzz

can someone tell me if roden is being voted for anything out of rvs

I think the Roden wagon is a pressure wagon from RVS

It's always in season to pressure wagon me. Every game. Forever.

Sorry that this is still a thing. It’s why I asked if anyone was good at reading you.

Don’t think I’ve ever not been involved in mislimming you.

[RCEnigma]

Welcome to FL anonymous.

[RCEnigma]

But like why tho

because i think there may be more intent than simply a misunderstanding

that's the only ping I've gotten all game zzz

can someone tell me if roden is being voted for anything out of rvs

I think the Roden wagon is a pressure wagon from RVS

It's always in season to pressure wagon me. Every game. Forever.

Sorry that this is still a thing. It’s why I asked if anyone was good at reading you.

Don’t think I’ve ever not been involved in mislimming you.

what is your thought on him this game then?

Well before people started saying no to my question it was, I hope someone can read him.

So now my thought is, oh no.

But knowing his history of being early mislimmed I’m kind of hesitant to look that deep at the moment.

[RCEnigma]

Lol….analyzing.

[RCEnigma]

? Fl hasn’t done anything yet though.

[RCEnigma]

Does census not work if the number of insurgents among 5 is +/-2?

[RCEnigma]

RCE can you move your votes onto one of the two wagons

Personally I think leaf is towny even though they don't have many posts

Urge to vote FL intensifies.

[RCEnigma]

Meows low read on aureal makes sense to me and I had the same thought that Aureals strongest posting was Mech, or asking questions around Mech specifically.

And having me low is kind of doing it for me. The people that have me kind of high are the people I’ve sussed or bumped heads with and it just makes me double down on my suspicions.

However meow day 1 is gathering the puzzle pieces and the days that follow are connecting them. So a lot of my day 1 is going to be vibe, tone, and intention reading. I’m not super inclined to push the game State. Especially without prs in play. So your read is warranted having not played with me but I like it is the tldr.

[RCEnigma]

My vote on flavor is just because I am going to prioritize sorting him before anyone else in this player list, no offense to anyone else. But for my game and how I’m going to view the game on a given day is going to be more tied to what alignment I think FL is moreso than the rest of the lobby.

That said he hasn’t done anything yet so mounting a wagon without his input doesn’t get me anywhere. So I haven’t pressed it too hard. If my vote wasn’t here it would be on devil for the record.

[RCEnigma]

It not FL only, but I know if FL is scum or *I think* FL is scum then he has the ability to pull me into a rabbit hole that may be detrimental to town. Whether that be a tunnel or gets me to scum side.

And if he’s town then it makes it infinitely easier to make town cohesive. I know he has the ability to do so and I am fairly err…tenacious when I feel the solve is correct.

But I don’t really know that to be true of the rest of the player list.

The vote isn’t going to pressure him into anything by itself, but we aren’t at deadline and fl hasn’t weighed in on the game. So I don’t feel the need to put my vote anywhere I don’t really believe in.

[RCEnigma]

I’m still evaluating outside of fl and always will. Like for example I still don’t feel comfortable with the devil hydra. Or I just have theories that have a layer of tinfoil that don’t really help the game. Like….”what if snivy got the go ahead in scum hat to open wolf because one or multiple partners is being widely townread and the outlook for them to push to endgame is strong?”

I don’t have basis for something like that, but they are things I’ll keep in mind.

[RCEnigma]

Err sorry meow I don’t particularly remember when we may have played. I’m not a heavy voter in particular. In the sense I don’t throw them around often.

[RCEnigma]

It not FL only, but I know if FL is scum or *I think* FL is scum then he has the ability to pull me into a rabbit hole that may be detrimental to town. Whether that be a tunnel or gets me to scum side.

And if he’s town then it makes it infinitely easier to make town cohesive. I know he has the ability to do so and I am fairly err…tenacious when I feel the solve is correct.

OK now I'm kinda weirded out that you described FL in a way that very accurately matched my experience before and then say this, which doesn't match at all.

That he’s strong as either alignment and can heavily influence a gamestate but is prone to strong arming theories to march his solve instead of vice versa?

Well I didn’t specify that but still.

I don’t get what you mean and I’m sure we have different experiences of FL.

[RCEnigma]

No idea

I still think Merlyn might've TMI'd you and Devil and I think her way of reading you is too clinical. Overconfidence is NAI for you, in my experience how townie you are depends on how hard you hit the slay button. But I can also tell that our back and forth was going nowhere and it's better if I just disengage and observe for now.

You/Aureal/Devil/RC are my town reads right now, CSF/Leaf/Meow/Nurse/Penguin/Cakes are in my null stew pile, Merlyn/Snivy are under my watchful eye.

I don't think merlyn was all that scummy so far. She was pretty higher on my townreads list, though I do see spots where I think she could possibly be faking ignorance. I thought most of her stuff seemed genuine enough that I wanted to ignore that, I think shes one of the main people pushing the game "the direction they want", so I thought they couldn't be scum.
Aurueal isn't exactly a townread for me anymore, but isn't a scumread. Does it make sense? I think they dropped off.

How isn't meow a townread? I think they seemed pretty engaged in the game since the second they replaced in.

Now that reads are hot topics can you explain what happened with aureal to drop your read?

[RCEnigma]

Nurse do you have like a specific time window for MS browsing? I’m the type of person that finds real-time interaction easier to pull me into the current events of a game than catching up from the beginning. Dunno if you are the same but would like to find a way to get your involvement.

[RCEnigma]

tbf im only being "hounded" by 2 players im not worried

Or they were just interested in camels townread that wasn’t explained when the player in question had no game relevant posting.

I do think this whole thing makes snivy look pretty good though.

I doubt you go to bat for snivy over arbitrary things if you’re town so the read has merit and it’s the type of easy pocket you lean into if you’re scum.
I felt like marcistar, Merlyn, and meowmeow had hounding energy.

Purely a Vote does not = hounding, but i felt energy coming at you from all those slots.

Some are fair to do so, but the fact 5 people became immediately interested in that isn’t nothing.

OMG ASKING WHY SOMEONES BEING TOWNREAD IS HOUNDING

Hounding is when multiple people are doing it cuz the hounds are circling.

So this is actually not completely true, but partially true, yes.

[RCEnigma]

Dunno why it didn’t add my post. Trying to shoehorn a buzz term is on brand. It’s already been discussed so I won’t harp on it.

The long and short is I think Snivy is likely town via the FL interactions.

It’s the type of easy pocket FL would lean into. And town!FL wouldn’t go to bat for snivy over arbitrary reasons if he didn’t somewhat believe in either Snivy’s towniness or ability to pin their alignment at some point.

[RCEnigma]

Why back off the penguin wagon with more traction if it’s just a survival thing then?

[RCEnigma]

Actually I don’t know the vote count and a couple others have called you out as suspicious so let me reframe the question.

Why make the battle cakes vs FL instead of cakes vs penguin d1?

[RCEnigma]

Either that or I’m derp tunneling Cakez town, but he came after me first

FL if you're actually considering this why not make an actual attempt to engage me and stop vomiting the typical I solved the game spam that is totally useless? It just looks like preemptive excuses for the town flip here

I feel like this was me stating that you could possibly be town here

Ok but you are acknowledging cakes could have poked at you and reaction AND could still be town after the fact.

But then pushing that he’s scum for those aforementioned reasons.

[RCEnigma]

DwtD 180 definitely feels weird considering how in they went in defending me against Marci earlier

This can't be as simple as Aureal protecting their buddy right?

-Drew

And this is just level 0 scum hunting

Can you elaborate how I 'went in' defending you?

And even if I did? Do you understand how reads can change?

I mean this will be a post in the 800's, and you are using post 180 to defend yourself.

Seems like level 0 scum play my man

-Drew

Can you explain what you didn’t like about cakes posting between your defense of him and now?

[RCEnigma]

marci, roden
merlyn
csf, snivy
cakez, flavor leaf, random nurse
devil, rcenigma
aureal, penguinpower

i think i'm here right now. i don't really get common townreads on RCE. none of my reads are that strong so far - honestly, i'm a little worried about it, it feels like the gamestate isn't that advanced and we're halfway to deadline. i was hoping we'd be able to, uh, walk and chew gum when it comes to the mechanical stuff, but maybe we need to cut down on it and focus on the mafia side of things

Listen, I am letting Alianna deal with the mech stuff, so we can tussle and throw hands on the mafia side of things if you want.

Especially since we have some clear differences in our reads.

Snivy that high? RC and Aureal that low?

-Drew

At this point you have an implied agreement that cakes being middle of the pack is fine. There is also no clear indication that cakes backing off penguin tanked your read there.

Also also Alianna defended cakes again with Marci pushing there in some capacity. I get hydra dissonance but I think the falloff would have been discussed at some point between you two.

[RCEnigma]

My choice of Marcistar over RCE is I trust my ability to read RCE better as the game goes on, and I could see it possible theyre playing the way they are as town.

I do feel they are hiding behind a focus on my slot, and while they are commenting on some other stuff here and there, it almost feels like that's there to appease the fact they're hiding behind a focus on my slot.

I also feel like it's weird of them to try to prioritize solving me day 1 rather than attempting to work with me, which is also something they attempted to call me out on in regards to Cakez, while I actively was stating that I saw a world where Cakez was town in, so that's a bit odd.

Aureal had the weird backwards comparison when comparing this game to the last game when I feel they're super different, but since it's Cakez and I, and that's the only game they've seen me in, and it involves the same players there, I can see it.

Merlyn, idk. I think I got Merlyn Fever, so I'll probably wait for more flips to try and solve Merlyn. I have faith I can solve this slot correctly, but after the last game I got pocketed in while knowing I was in a pocket, makes me want to solve the slot more logically.

You might not recall the last game we played together because you have had more games in the 7 month + span I’ve been away from MS.

But I do recall it and you replaced into a scum slot and flipped the game on its head. And my approach to you that game was to back off and not engage with you and just read your play from a distance. It was not a successful way to approach it because you played me.

I don’t think anyone else I’ve played with here can really manipulate me in that manner.


Ftr I outlined what I was going to do as far as my focus and still keep in mind the rest of the gamestate. So calling me out for doing exactly what I said I’d do is dubious at best.

[RCEnigma]

Cat Scratch Fever
meowmeow
Deal With The Devil

camelCasedSnivy
SirCakez
Roden

Random Nurse
Penguin Power
Aureal

RCEnigma

Merlyn
marcistar

Updated the list after the reread. I had skimmed earlier today at work, but this time I had the time to go through it page by page.

Had to add the other tier. RN/PP are kinda neutral, nothing super scummy from them for me. Aureal I've seen a few possible scum things, but could end up being NAI things.

Talk to me a little about the top tier. And roden if you were tempted to include him.

[RCEnigma]

I don’t have any lingering questions atm about meow town.
I also have csf town if I were to order reads. But they are in a null area in my head if that makes sense. I kind of just nod along to their posting because it looks and sounds good not that I necessarily agree with what’s being said. I’ve come across this before where CSF was town but I don’t know if it’s CSF!town indicative or CSF indicative. Would not elim today though.

Disagree on Drew’s hydra, if I had another vote it’s there.

[RCEnigma]

So I’ve been hanging onto a Marci townread from very early in the game. Initially I spent a bit of time fishing for tmi. Marci had some posting that was either super aware of that or just didn’t have setup information, or a group to discuss the setup with.

Maybe it’s reading too deep though. I’ve liked Marci’s headstrong play since then fwiw.

[RCEnigma]

I don’t have any lingering questions atm about meow town.
I also have csf town if I were to order reads. But they are in a null area in my head if that makes sense. I kind of just nod along to their posting because it looks and sounds good not that I necessarily agree with what’s being said. I’ve come across this before where CSF was town but I don’t know if it’s CSF!town indicative or CSF indicative. Would not elim today though.

Disagree on Drew’s hydra, if I had another vote it’s there.

This comes off a bit like you want to dissuade FL from townreading me, but if you tr me anyway, why bother writing it... am I missing something?

You were just the slot that he had highest that I don’t remember him saying anything about. Wanted to know where it came from and where my read on you was at. I don’t like…solidly townread you but I do recall your towngame being similar. Others might have better meta reads or experience with you.

[RCEnigma]

I feel like it's a complete waste of time talking to you since you just called my cancelled Penguin push scummy then admitted you haven't even read a Penguin post

I meant to answer the questions/concerns last night, but then got tired and the bed called my name(530 am wake up call).

Just seemed over the top to me and trying to find any angle to discredit FL. I hate when someones defense is finding even the tiniest of smoking guns, and I get getting upset(town or scum). But I also feel Cakez showed signs of frustration being run up as scum, even if he doesn't agree with the reasoning......trust me I have been there.

And I came after FL initially because I thought I could suss him out a bit, and it was probably more his back and forth with Cakez tbh, but I feel pretty good that I am seeing townFL.

-Drew

It seems really early for Cakez to suffer "caught for the wrong reasons" syndrome. I think he could just be flustered by Leaf's pressure.

As is prone to happening.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Snivy, I think I like this better than Cakez

HURT: Intelligentia (PSA, atm the top two choices can't both be picked)

HURT: intelligentia I knew I meant to make some kind of vote it just slipped my mind.

[RCEnigma]

No.

[RCEnigma]

Maybe. Good luck.

[RCEnigma]

Who is infinity? Penguin?

[RCEnigma]

Infinity calling for sacrifice and declaring meow their top SR was ??? but my reads are a mess and idk who I want to vote. Will probably have to discuss that with Drew.

- Alianna

I'm gonna stand by the fact that using sacrifice twice this game is mechanically optimal with the information we have and I'm baffled by everyone who thinks it isn't.

-ace

I’m bad with choosing mech stuff can you explain

Lol FL might be town UNVOTE:

[RCEnigma]

i am still cautious of rce. i have more tolerance for him not posting since it was just like, he was active earlier, so it's probably just a temporary thing? maybe town leaning on the wagons like snivy and marci is something i like, but i'd like him to be clearer on if he's voting fl out of principle or if he's like really trying to lim leaf day 1 or whatever

i don't think i ever actually did the rce meta that i was going to do and i probably should

Fwiw I think my stance on FL was guilty until proven innocent which isn’t really that fair but it’s like this.

FL as scum is a lot more dangerous later n the game

A.) because he is hard to pin down to an elim

And

2.) he is the type of scum player that will keep a scum team active and engaged which is equally dangerous for town.

We have possible options to sort him with abilities and maybe stronger ones down the road but I also don’t know what scum has at their disposal so.

I also see a thing he’s doing that I don’t really want to get into but I believe it to be town indicative. Or at least FL!Town indicative.

I’m not going to accuse him of faking reads but I would say take his reads at this point in the game with a grain of salt.

[RCEnigma]

Does sacrifice give us alignment too?

If town, they die and we get $20K.
If scum, no effect. So yes, we do get the alignment.

- Alianna

Okay. Cool

Let’s sacrifice me, and fade one of Marcistar, RCE or Infinity,

We then use an investigative down the line on the remaining of the 2.

This limits scum power tonight, gives us bonus cash, and gets a fade I think has scum energy

I’d argue against a lim on Marci probably 90% of the time here. I haven’t read much of infinity so we can 50/50 there and FL can give me the oops post in dead lobby.

[RCEnigma]

My list of wouldn’t lim today is meow, Marci, CSF, snivy, roden…..probably FL.

[RCEnigma]

where did RCE go in all of this too

No one responded to anything I had to say so I took it as no interest. Infinity had some decent posting around when I popped in.

The way they called me town was fine but the timing seems like it was to keep me from jumping on wagon and it weirded me out. Because it wasn’t a focus any of the other 3-4 pages they posted on beforehand.

VOTE: infinity e-1

[RCEnigma]

Meow sometimes people use mafia keywords and don’t mean them. (This is not a drew townread).

[RCEnigma]

I still condone sacrifice plans, but I like torture today. However. Even if scum are vanilla I could reasonably see them having some kind of hider ability to avoid being targeted.

[RCEnigma]

If there was an ability to get info on what scum has at their disposal, or like info on how much money they get from the town I think that could be powerful as well.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah I’m not taking the sentiment away behind them saying it. I’m just saying that their use of it may not mean what you think it means.

[RCEnigma]

Fl, for example could call me locktown right now and then lockscum 30 posts from now. And it wouldn’t really mean much.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Devil I’m around the same place. They have the dissonance between them kind of going for them because I like some of Alianna posting but have stronger scum feelings on drew than town feelings on Alianna.

[RCEnigma]

My heart says drew flipping red means we don’t have to torture FL. But my head says that’s stupid.

Marci likely gets exonerated with a devil red flip but I’d have to rethink devil/cakes.

[RCEnigma]

there are potential secret half votes in play, i think, so we have to be careful.

there are potential secret half votes in play, i think, so we have to be careful.

i think we should make a new rule that everyone should unvote all other wagons if someone expresses intent to hammer then

If you two are concerned about this why not advocate for election security?

Because it wouldn’t change the mechanics of today.

[RCEnigma]

Don’t think it’s as big a deal as you are making it out to be. Or maybe you aren’t and I’m thinking you are. But idc if people are careful with their voting.

[RCEnigma]

I do like the idea of using it like a….I would say parity check but that’s not quite right. But you get what I mean.

[RCEnigma]

Aureal
marcistar
Meowmeow
RCEnigma

I’m not totally against being the full scum team tbh

Hmm, all my townreads minus aureal.

[RCEnigma]

And I can see 2 of Merlyn/Aureal/Marcistar specifically following and acting as support to Meow. I don’t necessarily think it’s all 3 of those, could be if RCE is town, but I could see it being like

One of Aureal or Merlyn is the support scum.

One of RCE or Marcistar is the omega scum.

Meow is the ring leader.

And then one of the omega/support groups has 2 scum on the team.

This is thinking I can get more behind, I can see a team of aureal/Merlyn

And while I could be wrong on Marci by virtue of not having played with them to my knowledge — I don’t think I’m off the mark on meow.

I don’t really have a team of 4 in mind I’d just like to catch 1 first and form around that flip. Instead of trying to catch the whole team first.

[RCEnigma]

Idk I think FL bringing attention to Infinity’s stance on the gamestate in regards to X Y and Z leading the days narrative, where he is specifically implicated, is townie.

Not much to gain by leading people to a case against him and meow in the same light when it could just have more townies align their thoughts with what infinity was thinking at the time.

[RCEnigma]

Though I do acknowledge there CAN be scum in FL,meow,Drew it isn’t all three.

Gonna reread infinity’s iso anyway.

[RCEnigma]

Man, that 24 hours where I felt like I understood Flavor Leaf sure was nice.

I think it's shady as fuck that I say "ok let's do resolve this and do it all today" and then see you get cold feet and then pre-flip six different slots

If I'm scum I don't need to do shit here if you Infinity and Marci are town because you're already planning to flip the three of you by Day 3. Scum!me literally just sits here and does nothing and my hands are clean. I gain literally nothing as scum by inserting myself into this cluster fuck and putting forward a plan to get more info today instead of waiting until Day 3.

No.

We SPECIFICALLY don’t do it all today.

That’s like the whole thing.

And if you are scum with Marci, this is absolutely incorrect that you get nothing.

I gain absolutely nothing from playing like chaotic toxic shit and isn’t stopping you from voting this way

Didn't you think Roden was TMIing Marci as town with his response though?

I feel like things are moving too fast and communication is suffering as a result.

I'm still townreading both of you, so I'm not going to support FL being the target here. I think it's best used on a scummier slot. (Not that I don't have any flavor-related concerns about it. But I know nobody is going to care about that because mechanics.)

Who?

Who are the scummier slots? RCE and marci for sure... uh...

ugh who the hell else is in this game...

Cakez I guess? Haven't had that much of a read on him, he feels sorta lost like I have been, like we both were in the other game we played so I've kinda been townleaning there, but not really strongly. A few things have felt off.

*checks playerlist* Damn, basically everyone else has been a townread too. Merlyn I suppose, my read on her has been very up and down and for rather pie-in-the-sky reasons. Snivy and Enchant are weaker townreads.

There isn’t a lot from quote to quote about your view on Marci so I don’t get how you go from the thought “X slot could just be townspewing Y slot” to “Y slot is just one of the scummier slots”

Also the lack of follow up on roden makes it seem like a throwaway take but feels like that’s because it just didn’t gain traction.

[RCEnigma]

I’m fine being tortured fwiw but pref would be FL.

[RCEnigma]

Man, that 24 hours where I felt like I understood Flavor Leaf sure was nice.

I think it's shady as fuck that I say "ok let's do resolve this and do it all today" and then see you get cold feet and then pre-flip six different slots

If I'm scum I don't need to do shit here if you Infinity and Marci are town because you're already planning to flip the three of you by Day 3. Scum!me literally just sits here and does nothing and my hands are clean. I gain literally nothing as scum by inserting myself into this cluster fuck and putting forward a plan to get more info today instead of waiting until Day 3.

No.

We SPECIFICALLY don’t do it all today.

That’s like the whole thing.

And if you are scum with Marci, this is absolutely incorrect that you get nothing.

I gain absolutely nothing from playing like chaotic toxic shit and isn’t stopping you from voting this way

Didn't you think Roden was TMIing Marci as town with his response though?

I feel like things are moving too fast and communication is suffering as a result.

I'm still townreading both of you, so I'm not going to support FL being the target here. I think it's best used on a scummier slot. (Not that I don't have any flavor-related concerns about it. But I know nobody is going to care about that because mechanics.)

Who?

Who are the scummier slots? RCE and marci for sure... uh...

ugh who the hell else is in this game...

Cakez I guess? Haven't had that much of a read on him, he feels sorta lost like I have been, like we both were in the other game we played so I've kinda been townleaning there, but not really strongly. A few things have felt off.

*checks playerlist* Damn, basically everyone else has been a townread too. Merlyn I suppose, my read on her has been very up and down and for rather pie-in-the-sky reasons. Snivy and Enchant are weaker townreads.

There isn’t a lot from quote to quote about your view on Marci so I don’t get how you go from the thought “X slot could just be townspewing Y slot” to “Y slot is just one of the scummier slots”

Also the lack of follow up on roden makes it seem like a throwaway take but feels like that’s because it just didn’t gain traction.

Huh? I haven't said anything about anyone being townspewed, that was FL's reasoning which I was echoing back to him because he seemed to have gotten too in the moment to remember it and chaos was ensuing. They got it sorted right around then, so what am I supposed to follow up on?

That….makes a lot more sense then. I saw the post and it looked like you were asking for FLs take on it and then it just kind of hung there.

Fair enough.

[RCEnigma]

I have no idea what it does for my range, but definitely not out of your scum range.

I think overtime, I’ll be able to town read Meowmeow correctly if they’re town.

To be fair, most of my last few pages, and my whole pink tier push has really been to solve Meowmeow anyways.

what does "I have no idea what it does for my range" mean?

also, it's even true that i can get townread as scum, but i don't think the ausuka you were familiar with would have been able to play like this so i'm wondering why you think that?

There isn’t a mind explode smiley here so use your own imaginations.

[RCEnigma]

Place holder post.

On day 7 of a nonstop work week and my batteries are drained. I’ll try and get back to this Wednesday.

[RCEnigma]

I really really hope you guys don’t let FL talk the torture circle into being outside him or myself. Or I would have wasted a whole day not sorting FL.

Random thoughts on alignments not in the form of a reads list:

I’d go to bat for Marci or Meow today, especially learning meow is Ausuka I’ll double down even harder.

My feelings on drew hydra are mellowing out a little.

Still hate dissonance but that’s the crux of my issue and I don’t really have a problem with them outside of that. OR too much of the conversation/game has revolves around Marci/Merlyn/aureal/meow/FL/myself to some degree that everyone else is just getting muddled together.

I tried to summon my inner Titus and look at the wagons but I’m not smart enough to figure out what any of it means.

With the exception of like Marci being the lone day 1 vote for Election jury since the first couple pages of the game being likely town indicative.

[RCEnigma]

Ah I should expand on that more. If Marci had back up I’m sure there would have been a better case made for election jury.

Conversely they could have ran with something else that other people were trying to push through.

For FL specifically, I hadn’t thought to bring it up before but Marci/myself doesn’t make much sense as a scum team when we spent most of the early game bumping heads on sacrifice tactics that would only really worsen both of our gamestate standing. It’s not even good as theater. Unless that was actually Merlyn in which case yeah I guess.

[RCEnigma]

I really really hope you guys don’t let FL talk the torture circle into being outside him or myself. Or I would have wasted a whole day not sorting FL.

You say this and I like it but I also notice that you're not helping to ensure it by voting for anything

I’m afraid of poisoning the well if I were included in a council to influence the decision. I’m also worried about being the target and getting hit with the 25% but that’s not something in my control anyway.

The downside is I get hit with the 25% and FL bases the game around that…it would be disastrous for town but if he is town he likely gets NK’ed at some point and if he’s scum then it wouldn’t have mattered in the first place.

I’m holding my vote for the secondary project. Which looks like it’s going to be trading post.

[RCEnigma]

I’d go to bat for Marci or Meow today, especially learning meow is Ausuka I’ll double down even harder.

can i ask why?

I’m a sucker for slots that solidify town without commanding town to view the game the way they do. And day 1 I feel like town just kind of formed around you if that makes sense.

And now that I know you are Ausuka I know we have played a fair amount of games as same or opposite alignments in different configurations. I think I have a fair enough grasp on your scum playstyle (which could have changed in the last year for sure) but I think as scum you would be more comfortable getting yourself townread from a more passive position, over having the game rotate around you.

The caveat being that FL has kind of pushed the game that way over you bringing the gamestate to that position. Which is something to think about but not at the forefront of my sorting right now. More like something to consider after FL’s alignment is confirmed.

[RCEnigma]

I’m holding my vote for the secondary project.

why

If scum are backed into a corner I could see them trying to pull out of torture for another project to buy some time. I don’t think that’s going to happen because it’s so blatant but I’d rather not be blindsided if it does and we still have the option to maintain control (via unused votes).

[RCEnigma]

wait i just had a fucking thought

what if scum didnt want us to use sac because it doesnt give them money?

The way I understood the rule was that scum get some portion of the money we spend and it made sacrifice a way better option in my head than just using it for the kill + cash.

[RCEnigma]

i think marriage is arguably better since it doesn't take an extra phase to complete if the target is scum, although in practice i don't like the idea of deciding the lim for a day in advance at this stage. it might be more of a late game option

it's hard for me to imagine a power that is free *doesn't* have some sort of drawback on the other side especially since it is like really better than a lot of the other powers which do cost money in a vacuum but i guess i don't know that! i'd be willing to listen to an argument to use sacrifice over trding post today

If it funds scum it will still do so it’s just delayed, 0$ for the day it’s used and then whatever amount they get out of the extra 20k that it gives town the following day. Not that we have to use the full amount but if the options are good enough we likely will.

[RCEnigma]

i did! i think your comment on rce sort of resonated with me since i feel similarly, which is what prompted me to ask about him here. you just gave aureal a 'n' and i don't know like if you were just sick of playing at that point, but like i think aureal is an interesting slot with a relatively high probability to be scum so i would like to hear your thoughts there. same with cakez really. and i guess devil but i know any push there or even skepticism of their posts will just result in fl talking about how scum are breaking up the supertownbloc so if devil is scum they might have to come later

i think if people like scumread your posts you don't need to like stop reading that player, i think for most people reads are fluid and it's common for people to make reads that other ppl maybe don't like? fl and possibly drew seem to think my read on devil sucks and isn't coming from town but it's whatever! i stand by it

i think cakez's posts, like, after you stopped talking about that read are interesting and talked about them in 1891

So a couple thoughts here. I stand with you on the drew read. Not really sure how I feel about cakes.

But I do know for the most part FL’s pushes have been on mostly slots I consider town (myself, Marci, meow, Merlyn is like….on the fringe of town) and the aureal push was extremely brief.

I do believe FL to be town right now. So where does that point to me if FL is town making pushes on majority town. Well probably his town reads or specifically the slots avoiding confrontation with him and letting him lead wrong pushes. (Drew, snivy) maybe not both. But the rest of the slots outside of this box are pretty inactive or uninvolved in the gamestate. Maybe by choice but in good faith I’ll just say they are not active.

And that kind of lines up with why I feel like my name is being thrown around as scummy despite FL slowly coming around on his first read. Scum still need avenues. I become an obstacle if they flip one of my townreads and I become that much harder to miselim, so it has to start now in case they need to flip to me, who isn’t being hard defended by anyone and they still get the option of pushing down my townreads behind FL or just take FL out of the equation and use his reads instead of his voice.

I want to go back and reread the mini push on Aureal because I don’t think they really had anyone outwardly advocating for their towniness but the heat died off anyway and hasn’t come back, I think that’s interesting but idk in what way yet. But I did skim a little past it originally so I don’t know if I have the whole story so no big conclusions.

[RCEnigma]

Alright, I just wrote 6k+ words since last night. I am drained.

RCE's one of my Mafiascum besties for a while, so I'm always hesitant to fade there early games.

Bad reasoning, especially cuz I didnt like there Day 1, and I do see scum potential in there Day 2 trying to turn to town read me, but like, if it's a scum play, it's doing exactly what they wanted it to do with me getting a little pocketed after scum reading them heavily.

and if they're town, then they're reconsidering their read on me, and starting to see I'm townie. Like I like the reasons theyve stated for why I'm townie, but it could just be ego bumping me.

I'm just decently comfortable solving RCE with more flips, and if I die, it doesn't really matter too much because they wont be protected that heavily imo.

Posts like this are really the ones that make me question FL’s alignment because regardless of either of our alignments we are always playing the guessing game of how to get into the others head.

But it’s also a pivot point and I don’t know what to make of it.

Like, yes I would be figuring out how to approach and evolve my read on you as either alignment. But now I have to worry about, is engaging with you going to lead to you saying I did so just because I’m scum somewhere down the line?

It gets a pass for today because of pending town actions in any case.

[RCEnigma]

the fact that CSF and Hu Tao are on the wagon makes me feel really good about it. inb4 theyre scum rollin me, but i still feel good right now lol

I won’t be in the council after the flip so thoughts on the wagon composition in the case Marci goes through and flips town?

[RCEnigma]

i noted that in my post! i just wanted a bit more detail out of the read? like, what posts are you referring to that you think scum meow wouldn't write

I really don't have the energy to try to go back and figure this sort of thing at the moment, sorry. I don't know what 'scum meow' would write, but repeatedly thinking the same way is a pretty typical way to gain a townread on someone and I think I've noted several points where this has been the case.

and i mean idk with the marci stuff don't you think scum fl could have been genuinely frustrated with marci? like i don't think he was like going out of his way to appeal to emotion in that situation but i've seen before that he can get heated as scum and like... i def understand how you could townlean that sequence for fl but i don't get such a high level of confidence?

If you have specific examples I'll be happy to take a look. I said before that if it's not true then people here who are more familiar with him ought to be able to disprove it, so feel free to show me. I'm inclined to believe it because I feel like if I ever manage to get a scum PM again, Righteous Anger Mode is not something I'm going to really be able to use there so I can understand that someone else doesn't do that.

Do you expect that FL would be willing to bus a teammate here to get out of the torture action being used on him?

If someone offered to be bussed then yes. FL wouldn’t make it his primary goal but if someone volunteered to make that play he definitely would.

[RCEnigma]

I’m holding my vote for the secondary project.

why

If scum are backed into a corner I could see them trying to pull out of torture for another project to buy some time. I don’t think that’s going to happen because it’s so blatant but I’d rather not be blindsided if it does and we still have the option to maintain control (via unused votes).

You know that you can revote, correct?

Sure, why does that matter tho?

[RCEnigma]

I’d go to bat for Marci or Meow today, especially learning meow is Ausuka I’ll double down even harder.

can i ask why?

I’m a sucker for slots that solidify town without commanding town to view the game the way they do. And day 1 I feel like town just kind of formed around you if that makes sense.

And now that I know you are Ausuka I know we have played a fair amount of games as same or opposite alignments in different configurations. I think I have a fair enough grasp on your scum playstyle (which could have changed in the last year for sure) but I think as scum you would be more comfortable getting yourself townread from a more passive position, over having the game rotate around you.

The caveat being that FL has kind of pushed the game that way over you bringing the gamestate to that position. Which is something to think about but not at the forefront of my sorting right now. More like something to consider after FL’s alignment is confirmed.

yeah i mean that totally makes sense from a perspective of your experience with me, i'm more so wondering how the things other people have said about my scum game in this thread affects your view?

i agree i wouldn't say my play has tried to make the game revolve around me, i think it's usually better when the games don't resolve around specific slots in any case

I’m not going to go off other players impression of your scum game when I have my own and I know my alignment but not theirs. So Idk what exactly you are looking for out of that question.

Now that I know your identity. If I didn’t then I would maybe lean a little harder into someone else’s meta read but even then I’m not keen on using it for whatever game I’m in specifically to base a read around, more like supplement a read.

But that’s just in general.

[RCEnigma]

i think marriage is arguably better since it doesn't take an extra phase to complete if the target is scum, although in practice i don't like the idea of deciding the lim for a day in advance at this stage. it might be more of a late game option

it's hard for me to imagine a power that is free *doesn't* have some sort of drawback on the other side especially since it is like really better than a lot of the other powers which do cost money in a vacuum but i guess i don't know that! i'd be willing to listen to an argument to use sacrifice over trding post today

If it funds scum it will still do so it’s just delayed, 0$ for the day it’s used and then whatever amount they get out of the extra 20k that it gives town the following day. Not that we have to use the full amount but if the options are good enough we likely will.

i mean if it hits scum they get 0 and it's a guilty

idk the whole thing feels odd to me but i guess it's not impossible that there's no 'secret downside' to it?

Ah right, I wasn’t thinking about if it hits how it affects income. Also we don’t really know what scum has that might balance it some way.

I had thought about the possibility of a hider before but that kind of builds a stronger case for it to be in play now that I think about it.

[RCEnigma]

I’m holding my vote for the secondary project.

why

If scum are backed into a corner I could see them trying to pull out of torture for another project to buy some time. I don’t think that’s going to happen because it’s so blatant but I’d rather not be blindsided if it does and we still have the option to maintain control (via unused votes).

You know that you can revote, correct?

Sure, why does that matter tho?

Nothing you say makes sense for me

generatorfun.com/nonsense-generator

[RCEnigma]

I should have made that a link.

[RCEnigma]

Hi Tao how much of the game have you read?

[RCEnigma]

the fact that CSF and Hu Tao are on the wagon makes me feel really good about it. inb4 theyre scum rollin me, but i still feel good right now lol

I won’t be in the council after the flip so thoughts on the wagon composition in the case Marci goes through and flips town?

What do you make of the wagon composition since you think Marci is town anyway?

The back half has scum equity, snivy a little less now, I’m waffling there.

HURT: Election security

[RCEnigma]

Even if I think the exact team is enchant, cakes, Merlyn, devil.

(Current non voters I don’t townread)

Then at least 1 (drew) is flirting with joining the wagon. But at the same time you could any of the names there and replace it with the back half of the Marci wagon and it would make the same amount of sense to me.

[RCEnigma]

I am not sure why i still care.

Probably i should't.

Do whatever.

I'm not saying I'm right, it just seems like a good idea still to me but I do get I could be missing something

Again if you want sacrifice townie to investigate others, okay, whatever.

The alternative being?

[RCEnigma]

Like even if you do have scum jump on recount at deadline, it accomplished it’s job BETTER than just saying 1 scum between X and Y because Z claimed before anything has to even resolve.

[RCEnigma]

We can do 1?

[RCEnigma]

Enchant came into the torture room trying to get Devil voted, by the way, and go against the plan.

Everyone else cooperated with the plan besides Cakez who didn’t show up

I also thought we were doing Recount/Sacrifice today.

Any explanation why?

[RCEnigma]

That’s fine with me, I think Merlyn is the slot I’m struggling the hardest with because I can make a case for either alignment and both would be believable (to me).

[RCEnigma]

Enchant knows as scum that’s what they do, and it’s almost like a forced mimic of the play in that game, which is making me town read them, which just doesn’t sit right with me.

I’m kinda scum reading them because I’m town reading them

Cakez, Aureal, RCEnigma maybe, and then a deep wolf

I feel Merlyn would be the deep wolf, Alianna and I don't feel good about the end of day.

Also, this is totally scumEnchant.....don't overthink it.

-

Do you meant the part where I pointed out very reasonable things that made me doubt the Marci wagon? Let's talk about that. It didn't seem to me like you took even a minute to consider what I said. It would be one thing if you took a look at what I had to say and then said why you didn't agree, but I didn't see that happen.

Well it was an end of day convo Alianna and I had in private, and even after the flip.

Why wait until very late in the wagon to point these things out? Just trying to make yourself look pretty?

-

I am very pretty, thanks for noticing even through an online forum

I didn't wait for anything, I was on the fence about Marci but leaning town for some time in the game (see post 1801 and I could see why a wagon formed. I did a re-read of the day to decide if I should add my vote there and I didn't like what I saw, so I posted about it.

I think as scum it would have looked 'prettier' if I had stayed off the wagon and said nothing at all.

Drew is valid that the timing makes it look worse no matter how your read or progression was intentioned. I had the same thought eod because like. There wasn’t much support to push the wagon away from Marci when I was trying to get FL to consider elsewhere. I think meow voiced a townread on Marci around that time but I don’t remember. Which would have been the time to reconsider your feelings on the Marci slot.

[RCEnigma]

I feel complicit though because I didn’t really do anything to push back towards aureal when the other two options from FL were my townreads.

Aureal had some posting that flustered me and I considered it townie.

I think another recount option is aureal, meow, me, Merlyn and if it flips all town it will prove the theory scum was fine letting FL pilot the elims because his at the moment pushes were on town.

What I don’t want (considering FL claims poison) is for scum to hide in his pockets post mortem and watch us pick each other apart.

[RCEnigma]

I also recognize FL could just be gambiting here but I don’t have the brainpower to compute what gets accomplished in that world and to what end the gambit is made for.

[RCEnigma]

I wasn’t really including the infinity fade but yeah I guess that’s partly tied into it too.

[RCEnigma]

Back from a horrible toothache. Mostly sober now.

[RCEnigma]

HURT: sacrifice
VOTE: Aureal

[RCEnigma]

Not ideal.

[RCEnigma]

Sorry about the cat problem Alianna. It has gotten out of hand!

[RCEnigma]

Yeah, after witnessing how it did play out, 4:9 was definitely not the correct ratio. 3:10 does feel to me like it would be notably townsided thou, town could potentially mislim 6 times and still win which does not sound right. Probably you are right this should have been a large to give you time to do stuff.
Tbf here if you nailed a scum D1 or D2 then there would have been quite a lot more breathing room, but the swing here is likely excessive

Yeah so it’s easy to get in the mindstate that town needs to hit back with like sacrifice or assassination if they miss on the elim. But the potential to kill 4 town off in the first 2 days without any scum ability involved is really damning.

[RCEnigma]

It could even just be the accessibility of some of the options both for scum and town.

[RCEnigma]

At this point I question if I have it in me lol.