Mini Normal 2324: Fake Fantasy Facts | Postgame

[lucca261]

fuck, missed on RVS

I'll just pretend nothing of note happened and VOTE: Upwards

[lucca261]

fuck, missed on RVS

I'll just pretend nothing of note happened and VOTE: Upwards

How about you don't pretend it's still RVS and come play the game with us my friend

pretending it's still RVS is more fun though and even the mod's using an avatar that takes me back to 2017 (I think) shitposting

[lucca261]

to be fair, I read the game again and jumped at nothing

at most I think FD looks towny enough

[lucca261]

fuck, missed on RVS

I'll just pretend nothing of note happened and VOTE: Upwards

fuck, missed on RVS

I'll just pretend nothing of note happened and VOTE: Upwards

How about you don't pretend it's still RVS and come play the game with us my friend

pretending it's still RVS is more fun though and even the mod's using an avatar that takes me back to 2017 (I think) shitposting

to be fair, I read the game again and jumped at nothing

at most I think FD looks towny enough

Whole lotta null here, if anything would like to hear why I am 'towny enough'

I kinda feel like you're doing exactly what a player with almost a 10-year break who has rolled town would do

Given you have referred to yourself as a newbie, I think a scum!FD would be a little more under the radar on the start of the game

kinda psychological stuff and I don't even know if I agree anymore

[lucca261]

It sounds to me like lucca got some backlash from gypyx for what was legitimately an odd post #71 and then immediately backpedaled it. If it's really an RVS vote then who cares. That's what the R means. Then lucca pegged you as town in #78. You get more friends by calling people town, especially early on. If you put this sequence of events together, the problem is evident.

ehh I wasn't really concerned by the reaction to my RVS vote, even if gypyx thought it was weird

but looking at this from your perspective:
you got backlash (from FD on @143) from posting nothing today, came back and posted only about a guy who was inactive and not likely to defend himself?

seems like you are more concerned than me to make friends and not provoke anyone (which I truly believe is NAI, people hate being scumread, just ironic)

[lucca261]

I'm on that weird path where I kinda think my only scumread so far is Upwards for

@91

.

Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post.

Too non-commital, too agreeable. This paragraph in particular:

So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.

I mean, this looks a lot like newbscum to me.

[lucca261]

VOTE: MargotRosa

Anyways wanna vote a slot that's been weirdly shy about things?

VOTE: MargotRosa
I somewhat agree with this idea. I think she’s just been not present but wouldn’t mind leaving her a little present on her return

I'm down with this vote (despite only having 2 posts myself)
VOTE: MargotRosa

The "(despite only having 2 posts myself)" pings me weirdly here.

[lucca261]

VOTE: Lucca

hey mate why did you unvote Margot so quickly

[lucca261]

Overall catchup (non-reactive) thoughts:

Spoiler:

Like Alianna, Delta and Gyp for town at the moment.

@114

is the only post that concerns me by Gamma. The 'I will apply pressure!' vote. Null other than that.

FD is in a middle spot. Liked his early-content, but he embraced the townblock spirit in a disheartening way. Saying on

@149

that Zeb is an apprentice to the townblock is an unnatural progression for a player so concerned with Gamma and Hu supposedly following him blindly just a couple of posts back. Also has a knack for asking obvious questions, but could be a playstyle thing trying to get more content.

Laplacian and Upwards pinged me wrong on some early posting, but nothing decisive of course.

Nothing about the other players so far. Maybe a weird vibe from Clap, don't know.

[lucca261]

I was going to unvote if FD didn’t anyway since I wanted to see Margot’s reaction to the wagon, not the blitz elim

Thought so. But given that his vote on Margot was serious - not only pressure -, I expect to have done something very scummy for a sudden switch when a wagon gets going.

[lucca261]

It sounds to me like lucca got some backlash from gypyx for what was legitimately an odd post #71 and then immediately backpedaled it. If it's really an RVS vote then who cares. That's what the R means. Then lucca pegged you as town in #78. You get more friends by calling people town, especially early on. If you put this sequence of events together, the problem is evident.

ehh I wasn't really concerned by the reaction to my RVS vote, even if gypyx thought it was weird

but looking at this from your perspective:
you got backlash (from FD on @143) from posting nothing today, came back and posted only about a guy who was inactive and not likely to defend himself?

seems like you are more concerned than me to make friends and not provoke anyone (which I truly believe is NAI, people hate being scumread, just ironic)

What's your read on lucca?

Super town and frankly kinda cool in general. Yours?

[lucca261]

I'm on that weird path where I kinda think my only scumread so far is Upwards for

@91

.

Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post.

Too non-commital, too agreeable. This paragraph in particular:

So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.

I mean, this looks a lot like newbscum to me.

Why exactly should I be paranoid, and of what? Don’t really get your point here.

The thing is: if you are town here, it's very likely that scum will try to use your status as a new player to advance their game. Not in a "I'm evil, kill all the newbies" way, but maybe by buddying you, maybe by trying to use you as elimbait, stuff like this.

Being so open on your opening post, even asking people to correct you? I see newb!town would be a little more wary, especially on a game like this with several very experienced players.

Keep in mind this is a early D1 read, so it's not final or decisive in any way. But it's something that pinged me early game.

[lucca261]

btw @Upwards what do you think of the players so far?

any scumleans, any townleans

[lucca261]

The thing is: if you are town here, it's very likely that scum will try to use your status as a new player to advance their game. Not in a "I'm evil, kill all the newbies" way, but maybe by buddying you, maybe by trying to use you as elimbait, stuff like this.

You mean like you're doing now?

Maybe. See how he shouldn't trust everyone?

[lucca261]

@GammaEmerald
You've got your towncore posted, but any scumreads?

What about you mate
any reads at all?

[lucca261]

Just re-read some stuff and feel confident adding Margot to my town pile so far.

Her stuff seems natural. I like the contrarian reads. Feel like scum!Margot would have more defined reads by now.

@230

feels pretty good, even if I do not agree with most of it.
Still not loving Laplacian.

So FD, since you are active, why are you voting me again?

[lucca261]

Just re-read some stuff and feel confident adding Margot to my town pile so far.

Her stuff seems natural. I like the contrarian reads. Feel like scum!Margot would have more defined reads by now.

@230

feels pretty good, even if I do not agree with most of it.
Still not loving Laplacian.

So FD, since you are active, why are you voting me again?

I wanted reactions to it, especially after Delta basically said you were scummy, but couldn't actually say the words, which seemed weird to me.

Are you concerned with my vote on you?

Sure. You're sending mixed signals to me, right on the middle of null. There's a good possibility you're town, yet you're voting me

if you're town and voting me I'm doing something wrong
if you're scum and voting me I could use the reasoning for posterity

Always concerning

[lucca261]

Just re-read some stuff and feel confident adding Margot to my town pile so far.

Her stuff seems natural. I like the contrarian reads. Feel like scum!Margot would have more defined reads by now.

@230

feels pretty good, even if I do not agree with most of it.
Still not loving Laplacian.

So FD, since you are active, why are you voting me again?

Also, why would you feel like scumMargot would have more defined reads?

Quick meta read shows me Margot is a very decisive player both as town and scum. Firm reads, firm stances.

The amount of townreads and lack of serious scumreads so far shows me that she's struggling to form solid reads (as I am on several slots). Makes me think she's town.

Spoiler:

viewtopic.php?p=13010742#p13010742 - Her first reads list as scum on Newbie 2079.
viewtopic.php?p=13040294#p13040294 - Her first reads list as town on Newbie 2080.
viewtopic.php?p=12940763#p12940763 - Her first reads list as town on Newbie 2076.
viewtopic.php?p=13006521#p13006521 - Her first reads list as town on Mini Normal 2239.

I don't see a lot of waffling here. Sure, there's almost a two year-break. But there's certainly more indecisiveness. Feel like she would be more confident as scum, even after a break.

[lucca261]

Just re-read some stuff and feel confident adding Margot to my town pile so far.

Her stuff seems natural. I like the contrarian reads. Feel like scum!Margot would have more defined reads by now.

@230

feels pretty good, even if I do not agree with most of it.
Still not loving Laplacian.

So FD, since you are active, why are you voting me again?

I wanted reactions to it, especially after Delta basically said you were scummy, but couldn't actually say the words, which seemed weird to me.

Are you concerned with my vote on you?

Sure. You're sending mixed signals to me, right on the middle of null. There's a good possibility you're town, yet you're voting me

if you're town and voting me I'm doing something wrong
if you're scum and voting me I could use the reasoning for posterity

Always concerning

In a world where you are town, you do realize town will vote town quite a bit, right?

And every vote has a purpose, even if it isn't clear at the time(even when scum place a vote)

But you wanted an explanation for my vote on you, I explained, yet you still seem so concerned with my one vote.

I feel like scum would be more defensive like this since they need something to defend against, while town should be more concerned about letting their actions speak for themselves, if that makes sense.

Sure they will

but like think about this way

voting a town player is inherently scummy
only thing I know for certain on this game is my alignment
so therefore someone voting me? i'll always get at least concerned

---

regardless, my concern with your vote was you jumping off the Margot wagon when it was starting to get big with a naked vote. especially since she didn't post at all between your votes. it's still a little weird for me

[lucca261]

@234

, I believe she would be more concerned on mirroring her old playstyle as scum

Lucca, what are you feeling about Clap right about now?

Meh. Vibe is weird, but nothing strong. Lots of empty questions and theory talk

I did note that

@191

feels very empty and unneeded, as it's just four null reads after a catch-up with nothing substancial
Felt like "fuck I just posted on the thread with no analysis whatsoever so I'll just write something here so people won't complain"

word quota stuff

[lucca261]

Lucca, can we talk about Margot more?

But in secret this time lol

Pre edit: I am trying to gauge other's opinions on you(like asking Lucca earlier), like I said I had you as solidly town earlier but am doubting that read now.

And I have said I don't love how Gamma and Hu were so quick to town read me, but nothing really jumps out to me as scummy about Gamma besides that

Sure. Ask away

[lucca261]

@264

In regards to the Delta catch-up (not quoting because it's is a big post and you know it would be kinda hard on the eyes):

Not in love with it. Delta back to null. My issue is the easy content. It's all good technical play, but... a little bland?
Her scumreads are Gamma because of the Townblock, Hu Tao for the quickhammer comment and me for supposedly misrepping Upwards.

All fine. But to quote Delta herself: "There are so many more interesting things to talk about in this game."

Seems exactly what an experienced scum player would post on a catch-up to appear towny. Good technical play, scumreading stuff that is kinda anti-town sometimes, stuff that's easy to agree.

One thing I like is the small mistake (that Upwards corrected on @2..) about my exchange with Up. Feel like Scum!Delta wouldn't make a easily correctable argument.

[lucca261]

It's a lean with reasoning backing up my reads, yeah.

I already said I had a slight scum read, and when I came back, your posts fit into a playstyle I see as scum-leaning, which solidified it.

Can you elaborate exactly how any of the posts I made that you linked to are scummy and not, ya know, how I play the game?

Like seriously saying me making a joke about the page top is scummy???

Like I said, I feel like you are being wildly disingenuous here. There is no world where you find everything I do as actually scummy.

I didn't find everything you did scummy. I just gave some possible worst faith interpretations of what you said, which is often how I play the game, so I can reason through which of those worst faith interpretations are actually worth taking seriously.

I'm going to gestate, and do some further research. I'm also in the process of forming my full read list, which is difficult as many people haven't posted all that much, but should it have posted in the next couple days. Going to gf's dad's birthday in a few hours and then catching up on needed sleep, so may be a bit inactive in the interim

You have used the possible worst faith interpretations, as you put it, and used it to push me as scum......without considering any other interpretation of my posts.

That is not how town would act

Lucca, no need to talk more, thank you for our dance we had.....maybe we will dance again soon, but time to get actual scum

VOTE: Margot

Back to this(although as someone who is town reading Margot, I would like your interpretation of this back and forth with me and her.....Lucca)

I don't really think it's that alignment-indicative. Could see it coming from both TvT or TvS.
I think

@270

raises some good points, even it is a little tunnelly. Sure, it seems like she's reading everything you're doing as scum. But I have done this as town. Sometimes I was wrong, sometimes I was right. Confbias is a powerful afrodisiac.
For example: there is merit on the stuff about you seemingly fishing for wagons. Hadn't caught that.

The only thing that pings me is that I thought her point about you using a pagetop to set a positive tone was pretty clear.

@276

felt a little disingenuous.

[lucca261]

@264

In regards to the Delta catch-up (not quoting because it's is a big post and you know it would be kinda hard on the eyes):

Not in love with it. Delta back to null. My issue is the easy content. It's all good technical play, but... a little bland?
Her scumreads are Gamma because of the Townblock, Hu Tao for the quickhammer comment and me for supposedly misrepping Upwards.

All fine. But to quote Delta herself: "There are so many more interesting things to talk about in this game."

Seems exactly what an experienced scum player would post on a catch-up to appear towny. Good technical play, scumreading stuff that is kinda anti-town sometimes, stuff that's easy to agree.

One thing I like is the small mistake (that Upwards corrected on @2..) about my exchange with Up. Feel like Scum!Delta wouldn't make a easily correctable argument.

EBWOP: Upwards corrected it on

@299

[lucca261]

Overall catchup thoughts:

Spoiler:

@Gyp, can we add Delta/Upwards to the "let's wait a flip and check connections" pile?
Refer to

@264

,

@273

,

@299

and

@306

.

Ehh on Hu Tao now.

Think Clap vs. Gamma feels a lot like two stubborn town players annoyed with each other while scum uses this to lay low and push wagons. Won't be surprised if there are scum voting both.

@325

is so defensive by Clap that I see it as town. And Gamma is kinda complex to me so I'm not trying to read her.

Upwards continues to look scummy for me which is sad because he looks like a fun player to play with. But my vote is fine where it is.
On regards to that, I kinda think there is at least one newb!scum on this game. The townblock stuff becoming so taboo is suspicious.

[lucca261]

E-1, that's like gonna lim soon? Why so quick? Anyway have to shoot the roundabout needs fixing and Gertrude needs her hay.


Boinnnng time for bed...

it's time to contribute
what's your opinion on the Townblock discourse

think you caught anyone spouting crap?

[lucca261]

@264

In regards to the Delta catch-up (not quoting because it's is a big post and you know it would be kinda hard on the eyes):

Not in love with it. Delta back to null. My issue is the easy content. It's all good technical play, but... a little bland?

I consider it a badge of honor that the best defense you can muster to this is that it's a "little bland."

Her scumreads are Gamma because of the Townblock, Hu Tao for the quickhammer comment and me for supposedly misrepping Upwards.

All fine. But to quote Delta herself: "There are so many more interesting things to talk about in this game."

Seems exactly what an experienced scum player would post on a catch-up to appear towny. Good technical play, scumreading stuff that is kinda anti-town sometimes, stuff that's easy to agree.

This is maybe the first time I've ever seen someone say that scumreading anti-town activity is scummy. I guess I should be reading pro-town activity as scummy instead!

One thing I like is the small mistake (that Upwards corrected on @2..) about my exchange with Up. Feel like Scum!Delta wouldn't make a easily correctable argument.

What is this about? I don't understand.

My defense was weak? What would you call your attack, considering it's factually incorrect?

[lucca261]

Let's skip a step, since you're going to reply doubting that your "case" is factually incorrect:

Lucca - I already explained why lucca is in my scumpool and the ISO didn't really change that. In fact, I find it concerning that Lucca is potentially misrepping Upwards in Post 176. "Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post." Upwards didn't say that he read a 100 person game, just that he heard about it. So it's a bit unfair to assume (possibly wrongly) that he actually read it. It seemed like a really thin excuse to go after someone who (if town) is a good ME target. This is the strongest scumread that Lucca has had thus far, and he walked it back later. There are so many more interesting things to talk about in this game other than some mafia game that inspired Upwards to join. It's just odd.

----------------------------

Spoiler:

I already explained why lucca is in my scumpool and the ISO didn't really change that. In fact, I find it concerning that Lucca is potentially misrepping Upwards in Post 176. [...] So it's a bit unfair to assume (possibly wrongly) that he actually read it.

He has read it.

@299

.

Factually incorrect.

----------------------------

Spoiler:

This is the strongest scumread that Lucca has had thus far, and he walked it back later.

The only quote in my whole ISO where I express any possible retraction of my Upwards read:

"Keep in mind this is a early D1 read, so it's not final or decisive in any way. But it's something that pinged me early game."

Is this a retraction? It's a weak read, as we are on early D1. There is no post where I express any retraction over the read.

Factually incorrect.

----------------------------

Spoiler:

There are so many more interesting things to talk about in this game other than some mafia game that inspired Upwards to join. It's just odd.

Sure. I agree. As I have only talked about the other maf game on 2 of my 28 posts. Counting this one.
So let's broaden the scope.
I have only talked about Upwards (directly or indirectly) on 10/28 posts. Counting the RVS vote on @71, the one sentence on @180, referencing him correcting your mistake on @360, the subsequent EBWOP on @363 and this one.

In contrast, I have been the direct focus of four of your posts. You have 12 in total.
@155
@158
@264
@371

So, Delta: there are more interesting things to talk about on this game than my RVS vote and factually incorrect scum points against me based on interactions with Upwards.

----------------------------

How's that for a defense?

[lucca261]

Honestly I've been lurking on the thread a couple of times and it seems nothing actually happened those two past days (a lot of the posts are the Clap - Gamma argument that kinda bored me)

will re-read with more attention later, but for now

VOTE: Laplacian

[lucca261]

Honestly I've been lurking on the thread a couple of times and it seems nothing actually happened those two past days (a lot of the posts are the Clap - Gamma argument that kinda bored me)

will re-read with more attention later, but for now

VOTE: Laplacian

What’s that vote for Lucca? From what I’ve seen you’ve disliked his early posting but never really explained why. Whereas you had explained why you disliked mine.

Also there did happen something with the Delta/Hu Tao situation around Gammas potential E-1, even if for some reason I seem to be the only player finding that noteworthy at all. Any thoughts on that perhaps?

Because his catch-up post is the most generic, 'go with the flow' readslist I have ever seen. I also don't really get the Hu Tao townread from him. It seems like a fake read to me
Saying he's "open to vote" the three most suspected slots on the game while scumreading the fourth most suspected slot and applying no pressure? It's not a town mindset

What's your opinion on the post? @559

[lucca261]

Honestly I've been lurking on the thread a couple of times and it seems nothing actually happened those two past days (a lot of the posts are the Clap - Gamma argument that kinda bored me)

will re-read with more attention later, but for now

VOTE: Laplacian

What’s that vote for Lucca? From what I’ve seen you’ve disliked his early posting but never really explained why. Whereas you had explained why you disliked mine.

Also there did happen something with the Delta/Hu Tao situation around Gammas potential E-1, even if for some reason I seem to be the only player finding that noteworthy at all. Any thoughts on that perhaps?

Because his catch-up post is the most generic, 'go with the flow' readslist I have ever seen. I also don't really get the Hu Tao townread from him. It seems like a fake read to me
Saying he's "open to vote" the three most suspected slots on the game while scumreading the fourth most suspected slot and applying no pressure? It's not a town mindset

What's your opinion on the post? @559

there's also the possibility that it's just a disguised prod-dodge from disinterested town to be fair

[lucca261]

Honestly I've been lurking on the thread a couple of times and it seems nothing actually happened those two past days (a lot of the posts are the Clap - Gamma argument that kinda bored me)

will re-read with more attention later, but for now

VOTE: Laplacian

What’s that vote for Lucca? From what I’ve seen you’ve disliked his early posting but never really explained why. Whereas you had explained why you disliked mine.

Also there did happen something with the Delta/Hu Tao situation around Gammas potential E-1, even if for some reason I seem to be the only player finding that noteworthy at all. Any thoughts on that perhaps?

Because his catch-up post is the most generic, 'go with the flow' readslist I have ever seen. I also don't really get the Hu Tao townread from him. It seems like a fake read to me
Saying he's "open to vote" the three most suspected slots on the game while scumreading the fourth most suspected slot and applying no pressure? It's not a town mindset

What's your opinion on the post? @559

I said I hadn't had time to do a deep dive, which I thought was clear by "vaguely keeping up" in the post you don't even bother to quote so that is hidden.

None of these are new to my list btw. I was prodding gamma earlier about the towncore, clearly had suspicions of both delta and upward, and hopped on the margot train early when it started. No shit I'm down to vote the most sus slots int he game

because they're the most sus slots in the game

. I had null read on you earlier, but now I see why people put you in their scumpool.

VOTE: Lucca

So you're voting for me (a null read), instead of Gamma, who also voted for you and you were scumreading?

[lucca261]

From what I can tell, Lap's big sin is that he gave a low-effort read list and then OMGUS'ed Lucca. Is that the case against him?

I'm also gluttonous, which I've been informed is one of the top 7 sins

Can you explain your Hu Tao townread?

[lucca261]

Huh, a sudden push on the lowest activity slot in the game. That's not sus at all. This makes me feel better about the gamma and margot wagons, and worse about gypyx.

I mean is it a big sudden push when it's just me, Gamma and Gyp voting him and all the rest of the players are subtly defending Lap?

[lucca261]

FuDuzn just disappearing and posting once a day is concerning to me btw

[lucca261]

The Lap read is interesting. I thought similarly, but don't really want to vote low activity slots out d1 just on the basis of low activity, esp when they have decent reasons for absences

I'm not voting him for activity though. I think his posts are scummy.

I don't really see someone who is assumedly vaguely keeping up townreading Hu Tao, who has done nothing since like page 8 but talk about quick hammering and about the townblock stuff

[lucca261]

FuDuzn just disappearing and posting once a day is concerning to me btw

Coming from someone who was just prodded for lack of activity......hello pot, meet kettle.

I generally don't have all day to post, and when I was free yesterday I wasn't getting a lot of engagement with my posting, so ya I am not gonna be Clap and just engage with the wall lol

Touché

the concerning part to me is that you were super active at the beginning, pushing other people to talk, asking lots of questions
then it suddenly stopped

i mean we needed content-generating FD for a while during the endless argument that took like two days and five pages

[lucca261]

@Clap, if the Laplacian wagon was sudden, what do you call Gamma going from one RVS vote to four votes total in literally 14 posts

@325
@333
@339

[lucca261]

and there's that

[lucca261]

what a dumb way to end d1

[lucca261]

holy shit

[lucca261]

Wagon was Alianna, Claptastik, Upwards, Naerys, DeltaWave, Laplacian and, by proxy, Hu. Zeb got on and jumped off

if Gamma isn't just scum trolling, kinda think all three scum are on this list

[lucca261]

i'll say that's on me for writing an enormous post during the night assuming Margot was town

[lucca261]

it was pretty funny and all

[lucca261]

THE LAPLACIAN DEFENSE SQUAD

Previously... on Mini Normal 2324:

To set the scene: it's the middle of D1. For at least 10 pages,

Gamma Emerald

is the only slot who is a viable elimination.

Hu Tao

is trying to get

Delta

, to no avail.

Margot

is a prior wagon, but Gyp and

FuDuzn

, the leading pushers, are not all that active on this phase of the game.

The only viable wagon is

Gamma Emerald

, at E-2, with it's insaciable leader

Claptastik

convicing players such as

Upwards, Naerys and Delta

that this is the correct lim for today. Even

Hu Tao and Laplacian

, voting off the wagon, had expressed interest on getting Gamma off.

Until...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lucca

comes out of lurking and votes

Laplacian

. Then

Gamma

does it. Then

Gypzx

does it. It's a new cavalcade of votes. The first viable non-Gamma wagon to get traction since page 12 or 13.

Page 24

Gamma

(5) -

Alianna, Clap, Upwards, Naerys, Delta

Laplacian

(3) -

Lucca, Gamma

,

Gyp

Delta

(2) -

Hu Tao, Zeb

Margot

(1) -

FuDuzn

FuDuzn

(1) -

Margot

Lucca

(1) -

Lap

This is when they arrived. The avengers. They are...

THE LAPLACIAN DEFENSE SQUAD

!
Hellbent on getting Gamma Emerald voted off!
Champions of pointing shade on the Laplacian wagon - led by town!

Meet them:

• @591, @644 - Upwards
  
• @602, @608, @659 - Hu Tao
  
• @617, @620, @630 - DeltaWave
  
• @622, @649 - Claptastik

And the counter-attack plan:
@623, @635, @636

What a ragtag crew!

[lucca261]

the issue is that I need to re-read but with the flip I think I have a bigger scumread than Lap

[lucca261]

THE LAPLACIAN DEFENSE SQUAD

Previously... on Mini Normal 2324:

To set the scene: it's the middle of D1. For at least 10 pages,

Gamma Emerald

is the only slot who is a viable elimination.

Hu Tao

is trying to get

Delta

, to no avail.

Margot

is a prior wagon, but Gyp and

FuDuzn

, the leading pushers, are not all that active on this phase of the game.

The only viable wagon is

Gamma Emerald

, at E-2, with it's insaciable leader

Claptastik

convicing players such as

Upwards, Naerys and Delta

that this is the correct lim for today. Even

Hu Tao and Laplacian

, voting off the wagon, had expressed interest on getting Gamma off.

Until...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lucca

comes out of lurking and votes

Laplacian

. Then

Gamma

does it. Then

Gypzx

does it. It's a new cavalcade of votes. The first viable non-Gamma wagon to get traction since page 12 or 13.

Page 24

Gamma

(5) -

Alianna, Clap, Upwards, Naerys, Delta

Laplacian

(3) -

Lucca, Gamma

,

Gyp

Delta

(2) -

Hu Tao, Zeb

Margot

(1) -

FuDuzn

FuDuzn

(1) -

Margot

Lucca

(1) -

Lap

This is when they arrived. The avengers. They are...

THE LAPLACIAN DEFENSE SQUAD

!
Hellbent on getting Gamma Emerald voted off!
Champions of pointing shade on the Laplacian wagon - led by town!

Meet them:

• @591, @644 - Upwards
  
• @602, @608, @659 - Hu Tao
  
• @617, @620, @630 - DeltaWave
  
• @622, @649 - Claptastik

And the counter-attack plan:
@623, @635, @636

What a ragtag crew!

it was funnier on my mind tbh

[lucca261]

@373

is pretty interesting with the flip, at least.

@Upwards and @Laplacian, did you guys get the time to have a re-read and collect your thoughts during the night? Kinda interested to hear both of your guys opinion, given the complete reevalution of some of my reads.

[lucca261]

VOTE: MargotRosa

Anyways wanna vote a slot that's been weirdly shy about things?

VOTE: MargotRosa

I somewhat agree with this idea. I think she’s just been not present but wouldn’t mind leaving her a little present on her return

I'm down with this vote (despite only having 2 posts myself)
VOTE: MargotRosa

Why so self-concious about this, do you think you're being scummy when saying that?

i guess Lucca already pointed it out so yea i agree

.. 114 in that quote Gamma called MR "not present". Commenting my voting a lurker while also being low post count isn't self-conscious, it's having a healthy appreciation for irony.

Also, 185 you put both me and Margot as scummy. I was 3rd on the vote train you started for them, hopping on within an hour. If we're both scum, why would I bus so quickly and give the vote momentum?

I think Laplacian benefits from the flip overall

This post is very curious though

[lucca261]

@373

is pretty interesting with the flip, at least.

@Upwards and @Laplacian, did you guys get the time to have a re-read and collect your thoughts during the night? Kinda interested to hear both of your guys opinion, given the complete reevalution of some of my reads.

Right now I'm rereading HuDuzn's posts, seeing who he was leaning towards. Looking for a reason why scum hit him.

Pretty sure scum hit him trying to get a PR

[lucca261]

think you are more likely to be town

[lucca261]

there are some interesting connections between margot and lap and I did find it weird that Margot just came back into the thread late D1, said that the Gamma wagon was shit but just ignored the possible laplacian counter-wagon

to be fair I don't see Lap leaving his vote on Margot for most of D1 if they are partners and margot is the counter-wagon to Gamma. it's easier to just go: "i'm kinda busy, will unvote Margot"
and boom one less vote

but Margot/Upwards makes too much sense for me considering their complete lack of interaction D1, how upwards ignored the Margot wagon in its apex, cast the third vote on Gamma when Margot was the leading wagon (on E-3) to make Gamma a viable counter-wagon
the only comment Margot made on Upwards too is putting him at the null-scum slot (the classic partner position) while defending him on the whole quote

check this out

Upwards

A slot that's gotten a lot of heat. I didn't find 81 abnormal at all. Clearly nervous, but I too can remember feeling nervous as town and desperately not wanting to get eliminated first day, even if that attitude is not necessarily the most helpful for town. I think there's definitely an element of defensiveness going on (rf. 121 306 356). Read on their scum hunting is basically similar to Naerys, with the added caveat that it feels mostly externally prompted. Slot to keep an eye on, but null for the moment.

[lucca261]

that is a weird defensive read on a slot that is supposedly your most scummy null read

[lucca261]

that was a great shot by the way
holy fuck margot was on my town pile by a lot after late D1

[lucca261]

My opinion is pretty clear.

VOTE: Laplacian

Great first impression, especially when you replaced into a slot that HuDuzn had suspicions of. (127, 142)

Also, setup speculation since DE70 was has past games in his sig.

His 2 games leaned towards lots of weaker roles, with lots of use or time restrictions. This matches maf's 1 shot jug, so I'd expect them to have 1 more PR waiting. Rolecop could make sense with the 4+ town PRs I'm assuming.

We definitely have a bodyguard or doc because of the jug. From the two one-shot roles, this game fits the weaker roles meta. I'd guess 1 more solid role or 2 weak ones, probably including a limited investigator either way.

It's the second time Lap answered a vote with a out-of-nowhere super defensive OMGUS that makes zero sense and them they immediately follow it with a setup speculation that could only benefit mafia
then on the next post he gets pre-emptively defensive about it

with all due respect Lap this is so incredibly scummy that I could only see it coming from town in a weird way

[lucca261]

Pretty sure scum hit him trying to get a PR

Did you see a crumb?

now that Margot and FD are both dead there's no point on hiding it

@285 is not a crumb per se but it's so weird that I kinda assumed it was a crumb and I just didn't get it. Margot also came back to it and tried to get an answer as to what 'talk in secret' was so I had a hunch she had the same opinion

[lucca261]

but Margot/Upwards makes too much sense for me considering their complete lack of interaction D1, how upwards ignored the Margot wagon in its apex, cast the third vote on Gamma when Margot was the leading wagon (on E-3) to make Gamma a viable counter-wagon
the only comment Margot made on Upwards too is putting him at the null-scum slot (the classic partner position) while defending him on the whole quote

check this out

Upwards

A slot that's gotten a lot of heat. I didn't find 81 abnormal at all. Clearly nervous, but I too can remember feeling nervous as town and desperately not wanting to get eliminated first day, even if that attitude is not necessarily the most helpful for town. I think there's definitely an element of defensiveness going on (rf. 121 306 356). Read on their scum hunting is basically similar to Naerys, with the added caveat that it feels mostly externally prompted. Slot to keep an eye on, but null for the moment.

What are you doing here?

I didn’t interact with Margot, true. I also didn’t interact much with quite some other players tbh. Those that read me as null or not at all, mostly. Since that didn’t look too interesting.

I ignored the Margot wagon, true. Simply because I didn’t see much reason behind it.

I made Gamma a viable counter wagon… That’s not even really the truth is it? If you look back, what I just did, you’ll see that Margot had even 5 votes at page 7 and it took 6 more pages until I voted Gamma. I argued my case, true, but it was hardly me rushing to Margots aid. As evident by it taking 20 more pages until Gamma of all people voted Gamma to eliminate Gamma.

I’m not sure what Margots intention was when she put me in the "null-scum-slot". If that’s really the classic partner slot as you put it, that seems like the last slot I would put my buddies in as scum. Why do exactly what town expects?

Not interacting with other players? That's OK. I don't think I've had a thought about Naerys and Alianna on the last 30 pages. But not giving your opinion/interacting with the player who was, for at least 40% of D1, the leading wagon? That's not natural.

Yes, you made Gamma into a viable counter wagon. It happened on page 14.

This was the votecount at the end of page 13.

Votecount

MargotRosa

(4):

Gypyx, Laplacian,

FuDuzn

,

Hu Tao

lucca261

(1):

DeltaWave

Upwards

(1):

lucca261

Gamma Emerald

(1):

Alianna

Alianna

(1):

Naerys

Claptastik

(1):

Gamma Emerald

FuDuzn

(1):

MargotRosa

NOT VOTING:

Upwards, Zeb, Clap

The progression was:

• Delta
  gives me my second vote.
  Margot
  has three votes, all unknown.
  Lucca
  has two votes, one of them being
  FuDuzn
  .
  
• FuDuzn
  switches from
  Lucca
  to
  Margot
  , putting her at E-3.
  
• Clap
  immediately unvotes
  Margot
  .
  
• Hu Tao
  votes
  Margot
  , putting her back at E-3.
  
• Alianna
  is being replaced. We did not know that at the time, but it would turn the
  Gamma Emerald
  RVS vote into a game-determinative vote.

On 325, Clap votes Gamma and starts the tunnel of death that would lead to the eventual elim. At this point, it's basically only one vote on Gamma, given that the only other vote on Gamma is Alianna on RVS. There's no guarantee that the replacement will keep voting Gamma.
Guess who makes the wagon feel heavier and puts the third/second vote onto Gamma on a moment in which Margot is at E-3? @333. All while stating no opinion on Margot and her wagon. Naerys does the same on @338, but as you know, she's town.

Your vote is basically what turns the Gamma wagon from Clap usual throwing votes around and switching them to a real possible lim.

[lucca261]

Anyways, gotten around to thinking about Hu Tao again, and i think this slot's kinda weird? At least in terms of good stuff, the interactions with Margot look kinda good 660 and Margot's big read list where she pretty much puts them as scumlean, but with declared intent to get around to pushing them

On the other side, sitting on delta has maaaybe a bit of scum equity for them, as like, that wagon was kind of not going anywhere for a long while? (granted, no wagons were really going anywhere apart from Gamma but such pasiveness kinda indicates a willingness to let things go that way without involving oneself) on top of that if Hu Tao is indeed scum then i think we need to look for the 3rd on the actual Gamma wagon as there's almost no chance that thing is actually pure

Also is gamma at e-1 right now? Seems like it? I could be wrong though

If gamma gets to e-1 I'm quick hammering

Cold feet

this also weird me out a bit as a "my shitposting isn't really working out anymore but i wanna pretend it's still a thing, which is imo more likely to come from a scum mindset aka : more willing to fake viewpoints

kinda annoys me to have that many scumreads but it'll prolly be fine (clueless)

yeah i think if there's another scum off the gamma wagon then it's probably HT given that Zeb interactions with Gamma were towny

i still kinda think both scum were on wagon tho

[lucca261]

Votecount 1.03

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2024-01-14 01:13:22).

Votecount

MargotRosa

(5):

Claptastik

,

Gypyx

, Gamma Emerald, Laplacian, FuDuzn

Upwards (2):

lucca261, Hu Tao

Gamma Emerald (1):

Alianna

Alianna (1):

Naerys

Not Voting (4):

Upwards, Zebedee, DeltaWave, MargotRosa

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to send someone on the fast route to the afterlife.

flavor

Dragon Fact #4:

While often depicted as cruel and beastly monsters, dragons are actually highly intelligent, and have a better grasp on science than most humans. In fact, dragons invented modern computers!

Votecount 1.12

Combined Mod ISO.

Votecount

Gamma Emerald (7):

Alianna,

Claptastik

,

Upwards

, Naerys,

DeltaWave

, Laplacian, Gamma Emerald

DeltaWave (2):

Hu Tao, Zebedee

Laplacian (2):

lucca261, Gypyx

MargotRosa (1):

FuDuzn

FuDuzn (1):

MargotRosa

Not Voting (0).

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to send someone on the fast route to the afterlife.

Flavor

Dragon Fact #11:

While chromatic dragons are normally considered evil and dangerous, spring-green colored dragons are vegan, so you can approach them safely with no fear of being eaten. Beware though, do not confuse them with regular green dragons, as these LOVE to eat humans.

Looking at the wagons, i wish to solve in Claptastik- Upwards-Delta
they feel the most sus
Also gypyx is likely town

great post you are so great today congrats naerys

i don't hate all targaryens now

[lucca261]

mostly relief macho

[lucca261]

I didn't like Delta's readlist in 264, and 370 didn't feel like the town variety of defensiveness.

Oh sure. Is it because I shaded your predecessor before the day was over? In case anyone forgot, Zebedee sat out the whole Gamma/Margot competing wagons by parking his vote on me with zero explanation given and after only mentioning me a grand total of twice in the entire game at that point. (Once to say that I didn't produce content until I was "shoved", which isn't true, and then to make claim that Clap was scum with me for some reason.)

Or in other words,

it sounds like Zebedee was trying to find a reason to sit on the sidelines of the whole controversy. Didn't want to be on the Gamma wagon and didn't want to bus Margot at the same time.

Still need to fully catch up because I'm between meetings but this seems pretty good for now. Definitely not voting Clap/Macho Man today. I thought Hu was scum at first but I'm warming up to Hu!Town.

VOTE: Prince of Patterson

I would disagree about Zeb trying to sit on the sidelines. He voted Gamma, putting him at E-1 (if I'm correct), only unvoting after a lengthy discussion with her.

Don't really see scum!Zeb, on his first game, engaging on a one-on-one with 70k posts town!Gamma, while putting him on E-1, only to unvote her at the end, given that Zeb's slot was pretty much universally townread at the time. A much easier thing to do would be to vote Gamma because of the whole townblock, lurk for the rest of D1 and call it a day.

[lucca261]

My opinion is pretty clear.

VOTE: Laplacian

Great first impression, especially when you replaced into a slot that HuDuzn had suspicions of. (127, 142)

Also, setup speculation since DE70 was has past games in his sig.

His 2 games leaned towards lots of weaker roles, with lots of use or time restrictions. This matches maf's 1 shot jug, so I'd expect them to have 1 more PR waiting. Rolecop could make sense with the 4+ town PRs I'm assuming.

We definitely have a bodyguard or doc because of the jug. From the two one-shot roles, this game fits the weaker roles meta. I'd guess 1 more solid role or 2 weak ones, probably including a limited investigator either way.

It's the second time Lap answered a vote with a out-of-nowhere super defensive OMGUS that makes zero sense and them they immediately follow it with a setup speculation that could only benefit mafia
then on the next post he gets pre-emptively defensive about it

with all due respect Lap this is so incredibly scummy that I could only see it coming from town in a weird way

Also quoting the same post, the "out-of-nowhere" is because I was reading FD's iso. Three people he was scumleaning were me, Alianna (now Enchant), and Clap (now MMRP). I don't think it's coincidence that 2 of the 3 sus reads of our dead tracker are both pushing me right out the gate.

think about this lap

isn't more likely that if someone killed FD afraid of his reads it would been, you know... margot? the one he was voting for the whole D1? that we know was confirmed scum?

[lucca261]

Does anyone in my tag team have any concerns with anyone else in my tag team? Or the MUCHO MAN himself?

Hu Tao, Luchador64, Gypyx, Naerys?

think Clap is a very viable partner for Margot even if he started the wagon on the first place tbh
so I'm definitely concerned

but this is a question for D3!Lucca to think about honestly

[lucca261]

@932

If your read on Margot, who is the leading wagon for half of D1, is null, wouldn't you trying to engage with her? Or at least ask about what other players are seeing about her? I know that you asked me to clarify why was voting Laplacian on @580. And Naerys about HT on @361. Just two examples.

If you see that someone is scumreading her for "whatever reason", and I'm quoting you, wouldn't you... ask? It seems inconsistent with your behavior.

The only time you referenced her (directly or indirectly) was in @551. If someone was to read only your posts on the game, they would not even know Margot was also playing. And at one point, she had five votes. I mean, Margot was pretty important to the story of D1 in general. Sorry, but this, combined with the vote, makes me suspicious.

[lucca261]

Hey Lucca you still wanna vote out Upwards or like, what are we doing, strongly considering making a switch onto lapla, especially given how he kind of looks like he's giving up? That fits the mental trajectory i would expect from a scumteam who's in the rough of things

Sure I could do Lap today. I just don't know why 80% of the players on the game are so opposed to voting Upwards while it seems everyone but HT and Prince is okay with going with Lap.
To me their play is kinda similar and Margot/Upwards has more traction.

But I have zero issues with voting Lap and maybe Delta as well

[lucca261]

Wagon was Alianna, Claptastik, Upwards, Naerys, DeltaWave, Laplacian and, by proxy, Hu. Zeb got on and jumped off

if Gamma isn't just scum trolling, kinda think all three scum are on this list

Idk, I still really don't like FD, but I think at least two are, and I think if Zeb and FD are partners, Zeb would have stayed on.

The wagon felt a little foregone conclusion by that point though, so it's hard to say. I thought Gamma could be saved up to the end, but here we are

What are people's opinions on this btw

[lucca261]

a little too tired to talk about this right now, so I'll just say that I read @986 and my first thought is:

@Upwards, somehow in my 10 re-reads of late D1 I've missed that @580 was a question for me. Didn't intentionally ignore you, sorry. Do you still want an answer?

[lucca261]

about the E-1 stuff

[lucca261]

Back and reading. Sorry for the inactivity. Let's go.

[lucca261]

I don't think Delta has much control over the gamestate. Gypyx, Hu Tao, and lucca are what I would say are the game-directing voices.

The only lim that actually went through so far is Gamma. Me and Gyp were opposed to it. Hu Tao supported it, but never voted for her.

How the fuck are we directing the game?

[lucca261]

hello Comical

[lucca261]

1 in not voting, 1 in enchant’s wagon

do you think one scum is in Enchant, other is not voting?

[lucca261]

some overall catchup thoughts (bear with me, this is going to be long):

41-44

Spoiler:

@977: think this is post is town by Lap tbh. I think a pressured player would've made a more prepped readslist. When I read something like "Delta misread Lap and Lucca, so he's scum" or "Enchant wrote SILENCE in caps, so she's scum", I kinda feel like it's Stream of consciousness reads. Not something too common for a newer-ish player who's scum with daytalk.

@986: @Prince, what do you think of Upwards keeping bringing the Delta/HT situation up after you made this post?

Like Lap discussion with Delta for both tbh. Warming up to "it's just Upwards/Enchant"
@995: 995 is a good point by Macho because I also thought this about one read in particular that it seems that Lap kinda thinks is scum, but did not want to write.

Upwards (4) - Gypsy, Macho, Hu Tao, Naerys

I really liked this wagon. Sucks we went away from it.

@1017. Hey @Delta, did you have the chance to re-read the Zeb/Gamma argument? What did you think of it?
@1029 is ehhhhhhh. really ehhhhhhh

@1048. PoP, the Margot wagon was starting to die. Do you think Hu Tao puts her back at E-3 if they're partners? Even if she unvotes quickly?

Think I'm down to policy lim Enchant even if I think it's more likely it flips green.

[lucca261]

45-7

Spoiler:

I don't really think that Enchant - Upwards on this page is TvT honestly. @1111 feels incredibly aggressive when Upwards did not really play like that the whole game. In fact, I think felt like he faked the aggression after being questioned by Gyp on Enchant. (which I can see him doing as town, btw).
And Enchant had his first game determinative post of the game. The fact it was after questioning by Upwards of all people is weird.

@1128! Good post!

@1136. Lap, Zeb's unvote was the best part of his game. Re-read the discussion with Gamma, it's clearly TvT.
@1138. ehhhhh. Is this town thinking? I kinda see you thinking about this as scum Lap, sorry.

@1151. Good vote tbh PoP. I deserved some votes.

[lucca261]

Clap is town that scum are propping up as an eventual fall person.

I don't really like this and there's one other person you should've suspected before Delta/Gypsy if this is your conclusion

[lucca261]

And i don’t think scum were directly pushing her, maybe easing onto it. Naerys as town helps a lot for the VCA that I’ll go over later.

Of course, your slot was the only one pushing her. All other votes were easy votes based on a dumb townblock argument.

[lucca261]

Hey @Comical, answer me this.

Why do you were so confident with Clap being town while reading D1 if you were scumreading Gyp for moving from Margot's wagon? You know, when Clap did the same thing. @290.

Was this read really true?

[lucca261]

I do think there is merit to claiming only if there's another protective role.

[lucca261]

Hey @Comical, answer me this.

Why do you were so confident with Clap being town while reading D1 if you were scumreading Gyp for moving from Margot's wagon? You know, when Clap did the same thing. @290.

Was this read really true?

Gyp was first, weren’t they?

No. Check @290. Clap unvoted Margot just after FuDuzn put her on E-3. Middle of day one.

But it doesn't matter anymore given your claim. Was warming up to Macho!scum on my re-read (before the replace out) but anyway

[lucca261]

2.5

Upwards (4): Gypyx,

Comical

,

Naerys

, Laplacian
Prince of Paterson (1): DeltaWave

Comical

(1): Enchant

Not Voting (4): Upwards, lucca261, Prince of Paterson, Hu Tao



2.6

Enchant (5): Prince of Paterson, Gypyx,

Naerys

, Laplacian, Hu Tao
Upwards (1):

Comical

Prince of Paterson (1): DeltaWave

Comical

(1): Enchant

Not Voting (2): Upwards, lucca261


2.7

Enchant (4): Prince of Paterson,

Naerys

, Laplacian, Hu Tao
Upwards (1):

Comical

Prince of Paterson (1): DeltaWave

Comical

(1): Enchant

Not Voting (3): Upwards, lucca261, Gypyx


2.7.2 (labeled as a 2nd 2.7)

Enchant (4):

Naerys

, Laplacian, Hu Tao, Deltawave

Comical

(1): Enchant
lucca261 (1): Prince of Paterson

Not Voting (4): Upwards, lucca261, Gypyx,

Comical

Now let's check the most current conditions.

Upwards, imo, obvious newtown, has Lap yet again coming for a return in form on the 4th slot. But wait, just when you think the storm is about to pass, an Enchant wagon starts up, and what do we see? Laplacian once more...next to Hu Tao and Deltawave, another pairing of the 3 of them together. Interesting.

Notice how when the Enchant wagon starts to dissipate, Deltawave votes keeping the momentum rolling.

What makes you think Upwards is newtown and Lap isn't? Their gameplay has been pretty similar, almost symmetrical

[lucca261]

win-win-win

frankly, this game is over.

it's Lap + Hu Tao or Lap + Lucca like almost always this game unless Delta scum.

mass claim would trap scum, but we can be basicc with 2 c's this game, that's fine. Naerys already outed, so solid chances.

Scum kill me, I flip, and then sheep my reads after im conf towned.

Make a case for Lap + Lucca. This is going to be good

[lucca261]

45-7

Spoiler:

I don't really think that Enchant - Upwards on this page is TvT honestly. @1111 feels incredibly aggressive when Upwards did not really play like that the whole game. In fact, I think felt like he faked the aggression after being questioned by Gyp on Enchant. (which I can see him doing as town, btw).
And Enchant had his first game determinative post of the game. The fact it was after questioning by Upwards of all people is weird.

It not only feels that way, it really is unusually aggressive for my standards and I meant every word. For the simple reason that I realized that I won’t make progress here otherwise.

Now that you’re back, I’d still be interested in the answer you promised in 1006. As well as elaborating on your 1209if you will.

I don't remember exactly the details, but the E-1 situation for me:

• HT offering to quickhammer is NAI for me. People just like to hammer and it was clearly a bluff. She made the threat against both Margot/Gamma, but the fact that she got cold feet with a scum player already off the wagon? Yeah I do not see a huge problem.
  
• Delta putting Gamma at E-1 after criticizing HT for a possible quickhammer is a little scummy, sure. But it's policy here on MafiaScum (or at least it was) to wait for intent and I think Delta respects HT as a player to know she's not going to hammer without intent, even after the threat. Delta's argument that no one would expect Gamma to hammer herself has credence even if Delta's scum. I really do not think that Delta!scum would put Gamma at E-1 thinking she was going to hammer herself.

Now, answer me this.
You like to talk a lot about D1. Have you had any reads that changed during the night? Specifically between the Gamma flip and the start of the day? Something that caught your eye during the night?

[lucca261]

Imo, everything Upwards has been posting has been completely genuine and isn’t coming in bad faith. You can see in their posts when they ask questions, they genuinely want to know the answers, and you can’t always say that with people.

Even the interactions with Enchant? I kinda see Upwards going a little bit tryhard trying to gang up and act tough against a possible policy limmable slot

[lucca261]

I kinda read Lap as a new player sometimes. (no offense, Lap, I think you're fun to play with)

it's just three games of experience, all of them two+ years ago.
this talk made me remember about this post made by scum!Lap on a previous game

viewtopic.php?p=13222752#p13222752

had forgotten about this

hm

[lucca261]

hey PoP since you're here why do I appear so much on your posts but you never engage with me

[lucca261]

yeah without a CC by specifically a protective role I think Comical is conftown

[lucca261]

hey @Laplacian you are online what do you think of all this

[lucca261]

1-shot juggernaut against both a 3-shot doc and another protective role?

[lucca261]

why not Upwards/Lap

[lucca261]

holy shit

[lucca261]

so we just wasted two days with a fake claim gambit who lead us nowhere

[lucca261]

Comical, the issue here is that I’ve trouble making sense of what you did for both Town!Comical and Scum!Comical.

Also I am wondering about your proposed Town Block. Specifically can you run me through the argument of Hu Tao being town based on her recent actions from your perspective?

no not townblock discourse again please

[lucca261]

No. Lap is town 100%

Now I know you’re capping. There is zero reason you should be townreading that ISO

So am I scum then if I'm lying?

Is this the kind of thing where you know Lap is town, Lap gets eliminated, and then you try to gain townpoints as a result?

hmmmmm

[lucca261]

sadly I have zero confident reads after the clusterfuck situation
I think Delta makes a lot of sense and after the Margot flip I had always thought that his vote on me D1 was scummy as fuck

but I had to re-read pages 62-73 at least two more times before deciding on anything


@Upwards, I really want an answer to @1288

[lucca261]

the thing Delta is my mind is telling me yes but I feel it isn't you

[lucca261]

@POP can you explain to me what do you see on Delta's posts that you keep calling her uninformed?

[lucca261]

idk how everyone even ends up viewing delta as scum for that but sure whatever

I don't read Delta any more or scummier than I did before the dueling doc dilemma, but scumleaned them before and any flip is better than no flip. I really can't see another wagon with Upward's reluctance to vote and Lucca lurking

Not really lurking, mostly waiting for Upwards to answer my question as I actually don't want to vote Delta today

warming up to PoP

[lucca261]

I think Upwards lurking this close to the end of D2 is extremely scummy by the way

[lucca261]

but I could be confbiased

[lucca261]

could vote him today to ensure a lim

[lucca261]

I think Upwards lurking this close to the end of D2 is extremely scummy by the way

by the way @Upwards I feel for you regardless if you rolled town or scum
this is a really tough game to be your first one with the chaos on D2 after a really fun D1

rest assured most games are less chaotic (even if the chaos is pretty fun sometimes in retrospect)

[lucca261]

@1878 no problem calling me Luca if it's saves time actually

will be here for the end of the counter if it comes to that

[lucca261]

I mean the same 2 conf town were on Gamma D1 and we know how that went

[lucca261]

because I don't think it's Delta right now

[lucca261]

sadly I'm starting to get paranoid about Gyp as well but this is something for D3

[lucca261]

1.9

Gamma Emerald

(5): Enchant,

Comical

, Upwards,

Naerys

, DeltaWave

MargotRosa

(3): Gypyx, Laplacian,

FuDuzn

DeltaWave (2): Hu Tao, PoP
Upwards (1): lucca261

FuDuzn

(1):

MargotRosa

Naerys (1): Gamma Emerald

1.11

Gamma Emerald

(5): Enchant,

Comical

, Upwards,

Naerys

, DeltaWave

MargotRosa

(3): Gypyx, Laplacian,

FuDuzn

DeltaWave (2): Hu Tao, PoP
Laplacian (2): lucca261,

Gamma Emerald

FuDuzn

(1):

MargotRosa

1.12

Gamma Emerald

(7): Enchant,

Comical

, Upwards,

Naerys

, DeltaWave, Laplacian,

Gamma Emerald

DeltaWave (2): Hu Tao, PoP
Laplacian (2): lucca261, Gypyx

MargotRosa

(1):

FuDuzn

FuDuzn

(1):

MargotRosa

Now if you check a bit later into the evening, we get a Gamma Emerald counterwagon. This is officially confirmed based on the flips, and the votes that place the Gamma wagon over the edge, are Delta's....and yes, you guessed it. Laplacian.

This makes it highly likely for a clear blue skies day, and finding a scum in one of the two. While it's possible they BOTH are scum, it's also likely that there could be one off, either on the Delta wagon or the Laplacian wagon. Interesting that both of those names show up yet again. Patterns are a coincidence? Most likely not.

Consider this @Comical.

Lap is town. Enchant by you is town.

So the only two possible scum on Gamma is in [Upwards/Delta]. Earlier D2 Upwards was a wagon that got to E-2. @1035. Both conftown and your slot were on the wagon.
Then the Enchant wagon starts as a response to Upwards being on E-2. PoP and Hu Tao, who weren't voting Upwards, jump to vote Enchant. If Enchant, as you say, is a easy wagon being propped by scum, wouldn't it be an easy wagon made exactly to protect Upwards?

[lucca261]

If I hammer and Delta flips town can we wagon Upwards tomorrow guys

[lucca261]

Let it be known that if Delta flips green, the one positioning himself to look good is PoP, by the way

[lucca261]

btw Upwards was just online and didn't post shit while we're at E-1 close to the deadline

would he do this if he was town you tell me

[lucca261]

btw Upwards was just online and didn't post shit while we're at E-1 close to the deadline

would he do this if he was town you tell me

This is kinda low blow, how can we know he actually has time to post

sorry but it needed to be said for D3 given that town seemed locked into wanting delta gone

[lucca261]

Four hours. Time's up. Intent.

[lucca261]

fuck it

VOTE: Upwards

flash wagon, anyone?

[lucca261]

Two of those three players have been adamant in getting Delta off. In fact, they are vote 1 and vote 2 on that wagon.

If you are not voting Upwards, the only other possible lim at this stage, you are killing Delta indirectly and supporting a wagon straight up created by both of those players. (because if we get close to the deadline, I'll just hammer Delta)

[lucca261]

actually the fact you just grabbed a random VC is kinda weird mate

[lucca261]

Is this day still going? Had some really bad timing with having no time to play it turns out, but now I’m back. Gonna read the new stuff now.

1h30 until the end of the day

[lucca261]

Two of those three players have been adamant in getting Delta off. In fact, they are vote 1 and vote 2 on that wagon.

If you are not voting Upwards, the only other possible lim at this stage, you are killing Delta indirectly and supporting a wagon straight up created by both of those players. (because if we get close to the deadline, I'll just hammer Delta)

Doesn't really matter to me, I think both are town.

so the only vote you're concerned with is Gyp?

[lucca261]

sorry btw if you're town Upwards

but anyway you did say you didn't want to be pitied for being a newbie and all

[lucca261]

Even if he thinks you're town, creating a counterwagon eliminates the "Delta was the only option, so I had to vote her, sorry" argument

[lucca261]

In 18 minutes.

Who's around?

[lucca261]

VOTE: Delta

[lucca261]

45-7

Spoiler:

I don't really think that Enchant - Upwards on this page is TvT honestly. @1111 feels incredibly aggressive when Upwards did not really play like that the whole game. In fact, I think felt like he faked the aggression after being questioned by Gyp on Enchant. (which I can see him doing as town, btw).
And Enchant had his first game determinative post of the game. The fact it was after questioning by Upwards of all people is weird.

It not only feels that way, it really is unusually aggressive for my standards and I meant every word. For the simple reason that I realized that I won’t make progress here otherwise.

Now that you’re back, I’d still be interested in the answer you promised in 1006. As well as elaborating on your 1209if you will.

I don't remember exactly the details, but the E-1 situation for me:

• HT offering to quickhammer is NAI for me. People just like to hammer and it was clearly a bluff. She made the threat against both Margot/Gamma, but the fact that she got cold feet with a scum player already off the wagon? Yeah I do not see a huge problem.
  
• Delta putting Gamma at E-1 after criticizing HT for a possible quickhammer is a little scummy, sure. But it's policy here on MafiaScum (or at least it was) to wait for intent and I think Delta respects HT as a player to know she's not going to hammer without intent, even after the threat. Delta's argument that no one would expect Gamma to hammer herself has credence even if Delta's scum. I really do not think that Delta!scum would put Gamma at E-1 thinking she was going to hammer herself.

Now, answer me this.
You like to talk a lot about D1. Have you had any reads that changed during the night? Specifically between the Gamma flip and the start of the day? Something that caught your eye during the night?

"Just like to hammer" doesn’t sound like a great strategy, and Hu Tao didn’t answer to my question about this being a bluff or not. What’s your argument exactly with Margot as Scum defending Gamma? At that point only Scum knew Margots role, so if Hu is town I don’t see how this becomes relevant in hindsight.

And while I agree that Gamma eliminating herself was strange, I feel like that just distracts from what was really going on, namely two players not doing what they said they’d do.

Granted, D2 blew everything out of the water in that regards anyways as I’ve to acknowledge now…

To answer your question: Not in the night as game phase. But sure, I’ve made the thoughts I’ve shared at the beginning of D2 after the Gamma flip.

On a situation as D1, the only way I see Hu Tao being afraid of hammering Gamma, if she was scum, is if all three maf were on the wagon. It was an easy hammer and wouldn't be held against her.

As we know Margot was a scum player off the wagon, I don't see the possible fake-out hammer as something that HT would've done with a scum motivation.

Why are you assuming Hu Tao is town on this example? I'm considering her alignment as both town or maf. It seems you aren't considering Hu Tao possibly being mafia on your thought process

[lucca261]

there isn't any motivation for a self-vote on that situation other than 'scoring town points' by the way

[lucca261]

but good night

[lucca261]

there isn't any motivation for a self-vote on that situation other than 'scoring town points' by the way

which also can come from town on a situation in which Upwards is being wagoned late D2

[lucca261]

Now I understand what you’re saying. I was wondering actually the same thing about you - in reverse - because it read to me like you didn’t consider the possibility of her being town in that argument. This depends on if you take before or after N1 as point of discussion though.

I mean the argument only stands if Hu Tao is scum, right? If she's town, the fact that she didn't hammer is just... a fact. There's no nefarious motivation/hidden agenda there. So there's no argument. The only way the hammer situation is worth talking about is if you're analyzing it from a scum!Hu Tao perspective, don't you think?

[lucca261]

what makes hu tao so towny again?

She basically helped turn the wagon from Enchant to Delta.

A silly bus if a bus because now Hu Tao would have to go through 4 misfades before winning.

Whereas the difference between why I think Lap has slightly more chance of being scum (5th, though) is because their vote does look a little bit more like a bus.

I think Lucca’s hammer isn’t that bad, they could have held off and hoped for a no elim, but if Delta got hammered, it would have looked bad.

Upwards does look sort of bad for not hammering Delta, and then self voting.

Delta voting Upwards doesn’t change my mind too much on that since that was really the only option.

I looked back at PoP over the night, and they actually look pretty rough, and i think it kinda makes sense for one scum to have gone after Lap, and the other scum to go after me. It was just so much.

Lucca was leading the counterwagon to delta tho

Can I tell you a secret

[lucca261]

my flashwagon on Upwards was never that serious I always intended to hammer Delta who was my second biggest scumread

just thought Upwards was more likely to answer given his lurking if there was a wagon on him at the end of D2
it worked and we got a weird self-vote out of it

but feel free to vote me for it I think me flipping green would actually be pretty decent for town

[lucca261]

Nope. Lucca did lead countereagon to delta so its still pretty scummy slot to me

what if both wagons were on scum btw
doesn't the self-vote makes a lot of sense this way if we hit on both wagons and Upwards is trying to create chaos before the deadline to try and get a no-lim given that most suspicion would fall on me and gyp?

refer to @364 to see the first time I called Upwards/Delta.

[lucca261]

Let me prove I'm not scum then.

D1, page 11, votecount:

MargotRosa (3)

:

Gypyx,

Claptastik, Laplacian

Gamma Emerald (1):

Alianna

Upwards (1):

lucca261

Alianna (1):

Naerys

lucca261 (1):

FuDuzn

Claptastik (1):

Gamma Emerald

Not voting:

Delta,

Zeb, Upwards, Hu Tao

,

Laplacian

This is what Delta sees after @255 when she starts her big catch-up. Her partner Margot is the only wagon. All other players have only one vote. Alianna's vote on Gamma and Naerys vote on Alianna are RVS votes.

So there are three players in which Delta could vote to create a counter-wagon with two 'serious' votes if he wants to oppose Margot's wagon. Upwards (who is being voted by me), Lucca (who is being voted by FuDuzn, who we know was town) and Clap (who is being voted by Gamma, who we know was town).

Now check @264. Delta comes back into the thread and votes me, after her only engagement with the thread was trying to convince FuDuzn that I was mafia (@155, @156, @158).

After she votes me, the votecount becomes:

D1, page 11, votecount:

MargotRosa (3)

:

Gypyx,

Claptastik, Laplacian

lucca261 (2):

FuDuzn

,

Delta

Gamma Emerald (1):

Alianna

Upwards (1):

lucca261

Alianna (1):

Naerys

Claptastik (1):

Gamma Emerald

Not voting:

Zeb, Upwards, Hu Tao

,

Laplacian

In a scenario where the scum team is [Margot, Lucca, Delta], do you think Delta votes for me in this situation instead of town!Clap or town!Upwards? Or even Gamma/Alianna? Creating two wagons with multiple real votes on scum?

I don't think that this is a real play by scum on that situation, as I inferred on @1814.

Isn't more likely that Delta saw that FD was a confident town player voting me on that moment, engaged with him to further his suspicion and decided to use me as a counter-wagon to Margot?
Sadly for scum, her play was foiled when FuDuzn changed his vote from me to Margot on @289.

Tell me, with this voting pattern on D1, how does the [Margot, Lucca, Delta] team makes any sense?

[lucca261]

Who do you think is scum, Gyp?

[lucca261]

Jokes aside, I dont see how we lose this with an 8v1. Even a pgo and some drunken dayvigs would have trouble ruining it. Gonna rerrad some stuff after work and probably vote gypyx unless i find something super weird.

I think going [Upwards, Gyp, PoP] wins this 100% of the time

why aren't people considering PoP anyway?

[lucca261]

VOTE: Gypyx

boop

Sorry Gyp, should've pushed Upwards harder yesterday, but kinda lost motivation after the game just turned into a sequence of lims

[lucca261]

How could Lap not be town?

i could come up with a couple scenarios, but i dont really think any are true. their vote on delta was the weakest imo, but i still think overall it makes sense Lap is town.

Game probs ends with Upwards? If so, that's kinda cool I came into this game, pushed Upwards, then switched over to Delta right after.

I still think there's merit in LuccaScum or PopScum, but i think some things both of them have done are just weird as scum, like the bus hammer from Lucca, the over aggression from PoP onto me, just really weird and unnatural choices to make as scum albeit choices that could have been made. They aren't natural choices, they are chosen choices, if that makes sense.

outside of that ten-page period where you pushed Laplacian?

[lucca261]

at this point, this is one of the weirdest games I've played on this site and my mind is playing tricks on me

getting paranoid, so i'll just go VOTE: Upwards and hope it's for the best

[lucca261]

VOTE: Lucca

I caught a scum, maybe 2 if Lucca ends up being scum.

I’m checking out.

I feel like you actually doesn't even think I'm scum, just want to solve the game alone because of ego

[lucca261]

I in fact agree.

Comical looks incredibly horrible.
If anything, Comical enrofced massclaim promising PR protection (While 1vs1ing doctor to boot). It's so brazen, we forgot about this fact mostly.
Then suddenly he changes in 1SBP. His promises make even less sense now.
Comical is also person who totally no-kills twice, just for sake of it.


In Comical defence, 1SBP is very fitting narrotive of 3SDoctor with 1SJugger and probably Comical just lets me die, instead of white knighting me so hard i guess, and mostly he easily pushed Delta instead of anyone else. I am not that good influence to be left alive in hopes to pocket, so yeah.


Comical is still not player i would go against.
Yet.

Thought about this, but I'll say that after what happened on D1, if Comical wins by creating a fake townblock as scum it would be very funny so I'm not voting him at all.

[lucca261]

I don’t have more time right now but this evening I’ll explain to you all how I am Super town and frankly kinda cool in general.

hahahahaha I like this guy
sadly you rolled scum

next game let's roll town together and win

[lucca261]

newbtown my ass Upwards is a good fucking player

[lucca261]

tried every gambit on the book today it was really cool to see no joke

[lucca261]

very fun game overall almost like a sequence of unlikely events that gave town a rolling victory cause I think scum actually played pretty well

my ego won't allow myself to leave without pointing out my @364 and @786, sorry.

gg's to everyone

[lucca261]

I like your signature, Upwards!

I love my signature

very tempted to use some of your posts on the mafia pt as a sig hahaha

[lucca261]

tried every gambit on the book today it was really cool to see no joke

That becomes a whole lot easier once a Flygon nightkilled your Juggernaut, your Scumbuddy got munched by lions, and your own existence is about to be disproven.

With nothing to lose there’s nothing left to worry about.

yeah naerys played one of the most impressive town games i've seen in a while (keeping in mind I just came back from a seven-year break but anyway)

shot the juggernaut D1 and then on one of her first posts on D2 just solved the rest of the scumteam on a snap

[lucca261]

It was hinted at in the dead chat, but was I the night kill because I was all over margot?

(I was FuDuzn btw)

so my read of you based on your long break was kinda off lol