Mini Normal 2325 | Game Over

[ketchup777]

not voting yet but cheering on you ketchup

((:
Yeah probably best to wait just in case I’m wrong and we get blitzhammered by Luca / Jackson / Psyche

[ketchup777]

VOTE: Jacob

I'm not really vibing with his reasons for joining the bug wagon. He said he wants to sheep Luca but Luca hasn't even voted there yet.

It almost feels like he wanted to hop on before Luca because he knew Luca would likely join.

Feels a little opportunistic

lol he sure did

[ketchup777]

VOTE: OutWorldEr

the walls are closing in my friend

It seems the likeliest scumteams are 1, 4 and 7

Remove your vote

Tell me where I erred in my logic and I will.

[ketchup777]

btw hu you absolutely should be using your jailkeep as a roleblock tonight methinks since there's 2 masons with roughly equal chances of getting killed anyways

Nope, they should very much not

if we hit scum today i assume scum will be targeting the masons (espe scum outworld)

it's a 50/50 both in terms of protection (2 masons) or roleblock (2 scum)

only difference is that the roleblock nets her a guilty

is this incorrect?

of course that's incorrect, she doesn't know who the 2 scum are so it's worse than a 50:50

[ketchup777]

VOTE: OutWorldEr

the walls are closing in my friend

It seems the likeliest scumteams are 1, 4 and 7

Remove your vote

Tell me where I erred in my logic and I will.

I'm never voting there

Jackson do you trust me

[ketchup777]

VOTE: OutWorldEr

the walls are closing in my friend

It seems the likeliest scumteams are 1, 4 and 7

Remove your vote

Tell me where I erred in my logic and I will.

I'm never voting there

Jackson do you trust me

In what way?

3029 just a hunch

3040 + 3043 are why I think the masonry is real. 3065 suggests that teams 3+5 would be too overpowered setups for town. So it is almost certian to be team 1, 4 or 7. And

all 3 of these teams have Outworld in

[ketchup777]

You've made assumptions that I'm not comfortable deciding the game based on

Which assumptions?

I’m assuming you two are masons, but that shouldn’t be a problem for you.
I’m assuming that those two setups are too overpowered, yes, if you think I’m wrong please tell me.
The only assumption that might be eh for you is me being townie. Please, I need you to believe me. I’m VT.

[ketchup777]

If Gypyx is town, Black has to be wolf alongside Psyche. That's the reason to vote there specifically, the outworld feels incredibly out of place to vote today. Especially paired with the fact it's already uncomfortable to even imagine a world where we don't flip Gypyx today. I am increasingly getting uncomfortable with the fact that the masonry

will

get picked off and thus it's exponentially more likely that mafia just wins because you and Hu Tao are both town-reading Gypyx to a degree that I feel will lose us the game when we lose our (the masonry) voice.

I agree it felt out-of-place to me too, I was never close to considering an OutWorld vote even 1 day ago. But I've found every possible scumteam (when I'm town) and then found the likeliest 3 scumteams all contain OutWorld. Even if I might have the least to go on on OutWorld individually, come on. It adds up

[ketchup777]

Can you remove your vote in the interim, I'll be back soon

ok, but please don't brush aside my logic too quickly. I think it's good logic.

UNVOTE: OutWorldEr

[ketchup777]

You've made assumptions that I'm not comfortable deciding the game based on

Which assumptions?

I’m assuming you two are masons, but that shouldn’t be a problem for you.
I’m assuming that those two setups are too overpowered, yes, if you think I’m wrong please tell me.
The only assumption that might be eh for you is me being townie. Please, I need you to believe me. I’m VT.

Actually, you don’t even need to think I’m town at this stage. If I’m scum, OutWorld is also scum for his VT neapolitan reading of me. Then it has to be on of Gypyx/Psyche because of the red check, so the only possible scum teams with me in are:

Ketchup / OutWorld / Gypyx
Ketchup / Outworld / Psyche

The second one is not even possible, because we could have hammered Gypyx when she was at E-2. So the only 'possible' scum team with me in is specifically

Ketchup / OutWorld / Gypyx. Outworks and Gypyx have to town read me, then. But you don’t! If I’m scum, Outworld is still scum. Come to the light! please (:

[ketchup777]

1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld

2. Gypyx / Luca / Jackson

3. Gypyx / Psyche / Black

4. Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld

5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld

6. Luca / Jackson / Psyche

7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

Setup stuff:

bear in mind mafia power is unknown. below setups are based on the assumption there are no outstanding town claims that are fake / hiding a PR

1. Odd-night vig, 1- shot watcher, 2 Masons

2. Odd-night vig, 1-shot watcher, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan

3. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan, 2 Masons

4. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

5. Odd-night vig, 1-shot watcher, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

6. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan

7. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

I must now seek out the wonders of sleep and bedtime. Will do my own analysis on stuff in the morning, but please, anyone, talk about this stuff.

Jackson, Luca. If you are masons, the only possible case where OutWorld is not scum is case 3.

Gypyx / Psyche / Black

I guess it comes down to the following:

Do you think Odd-night vig, Odd-night Jailkeeper, Neapolitan, 2 Masons is a balanced setup? I'm new to this but even to me it doesn't seem balanced.

[ketchup777]

Everyone should supply their suggested solve, mine is { Gypyx, Black, Outworld }

Outworld is even in your proposed solve. Tell me what the cons are of voting out what seems to be the most likely mafia by far. By voting outside the 1v1, we still have excellent chances at finding another one next time, especially if Hu Tao is town and gets a lucky jailkeep

[ketchup777]

I'm off for a walk for a bit, Jackson and Luca please read through my developing logic in my recent ISO. Not to be arrogant but I think it's pretty awesome

[ketchup777]

Not just ketchup, hu tao as well.

The split is approximately { ketchup, hu tao, gypyx } + { black, psyche, mel, luca } and then outworld as like a middleman that has seeded themselves into both sides.

Ok so OWER just needs to decide who he thinks is scum. He can either hammer Gypyx or he can vote Psyche and I'll hammer

Resolving the 1v1 has to be the play. Unless the analysis on OWER is like some Sherlock Holmes shit

Black, everyone, please read the analysis! It has to be OutWorld, it has to be!

Jackson, you say you worry for future days if the masonry is attacked, well, if there’s 6 of us left and it’s 3 for an elim you have {black,alive mason, psyche} to vote Gypyx if need be. If it’s 4, I could well vote her at some point. But seriously:

It seems to be >90% OWER is scum
1v1 is like 60% chance on each
Don’t trust your gut trust the logic

[ketchup777]

ketchup you probably have better stuff to do with your life

than slowly crumble the scum team piece by piece? no way

[ketchup777]

Don’t trust your gut trust the logic

My read on Gypyx is

not

gut, it's been based on logic I've accrued since I replaced in

I appreciate your confidence, but regardless of how well you think you’ve read her, there is

LITERALLY NO SCENARIO

from your p.o.v where OutWorld is scum, except the one that has 5 town power roles. It has to be safest to get out OutWorld, surely, please, admit some margin for error, please, please

[ketchup777]

Don’t trust your gut trust the logic

My read on Gypyx is

not

gut, it's been based on logic I've accrued since I replaced in

I appreciate your confidence, but regardless of how well you think you’ve read her, there is

LITERALLY NO SCENARIO

from your p.o.v where OutWorld is scum, except the one that has 5 town power roles. It has to be safest to get out OutWorld, surely, please, admit some margin for error, please, please

Is town*

[ketchup777]

Don’t trust your gut trust the logic

My read on Gypyx is

not

gut, it's been based on logic I've accrued since I replaced in

I appreciate your confidence, but regardless of how well you think you’ve read her, there is

LITERALLY NO SCENARIO

from your p.o.v where OutWorld is scum, except the one that has 5 town power roles. It has to be safest to get out OutWorld, surely, please, admit some margin for error, please, please

Please answer my question

Sure, I was in the middle of writing that.

I am undecided. I know, I know, I should be one way or the other. I am willing to vote Gypyx AFTER today, after taking out Outworld who is so likely scum it’s like staring a gold pot in the face and not taking it. Gypyx has so many posts, I’m struggling to read her one way or the other anymore

[ketchup777]

I feel like I'm almost willing to bet the game on it being gypyx/Black/Outworld at this stage.

Ketchup, how do you feel about this?

5. Odd-night vig, 1-shot watcher, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons


Setup might be infeasible.

Come on, why guesswork, Outworld is coming in scum again and again.

[ketchup777]

Do you acknowledge the fact that if you don't have Luca and myself on the wagon, any wagon is filled with scum?

I know, I need you to. I beg you, please, OutWorld is scum, he must be, even if you’ve strongly come to Gypyx being scum, we have to take OutWorkd out first, please, for safety, aaahhh

[ketchup777]

VOTE: OutWorldER

Black saying she’s ready to hammer people without reading my analysis is so scummy as well, come on, for the cookies, for the glory, for the AAAH IT HAS TO BE OUTWORLD

[ketchup777]

I feel like I'm almost willing to bet the game on it being gypyx/Black/Outworld at this stage.

Ketchup, how do you feel about this?

5. Odd-night vig, 1-shot watcher, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons


Setup might be infeasible.

Come on, why guesswork, Outworld is coming in scum again and again.

Don't base it on the setup - many a game has been lost from incorrect setup spec.

I agree that outworld is scum, I'm just concerned that if the masons get killed off then you might be swayed by gypyx, who can be quite convincing, or Black who is equally so.

I promise I won’t be swayed without amazing reason. I’m not confident at all Black is town, it will take a lot for me townread her, and I won’t townread Gypyx for a while either. Is 6P 4 to hammer or 3?

[ketchup777]

The main fear I have is that Gypyx has you and Hu Tao by the reigns, especially Hu Tao. I fear that if they don't go out today, they won't go out and we lose

Jackson, I swear, she doesn’t have me anymore. I’m fully prepared to send her off. Please, trust me. Please ):

[ketchup777]

I'm literally leveraging Black's vote here, someone who I think is a wolf to get Gypyx out of the game. This is literally going to be the only chance we get

It’s not. How many to hammer 6P?

[ketchup777]

Jackson you do realize scum has to kill Hu Tao night 4 otherwise they just lose cause she can just jailkeep the last scum even if we mislim in 4P ELo

basically the masonry is not dying you'll still have time to tunnel me out

No they don't, as it's an odd-night they can just kill them tomorrow. Scum have the freedom of action here not us

You mean they kill hu tao tonight?

No, I don't

ok so let's say we kill scum today / tommorow by going outside of the shit 1v1 and actually figuring this out

D3 kill scum

N3 - Hu tao misses her jailkeep, mason1 dies
(6players)

D4 kill scum

N4 - mason2 dies
(4players)

last 1v1 between me and psyche
if we miss the kill hu tao can jailkeep anyways the last confscum

THEY NEED TO KILL HU TAO OR THIS IS A FUCKING MECH WIN FOR TOWN OK?

Omg you’re right

[ketchup777]

Jackson you do realize scum has to kill Hu Tao night 4 otherwise they just lose cause she can just jailkeep the last scum even if we mislim in 4P ELo

basically the masonry is not dying you'll still have time to tunnel me out

No they don't, as it's an odd-night they can just kill them tomorrow. Scum have the freedom of action here not us

You mean they kill hu tao tonight?

No, I don't

ok so let's say we kill scum today / tommorow by going outside of the shit 1v1 and actually figuring this out

D3 kill scum

N3 - Hu tao misses her jailkeep, mason1 dies
(6players)

D4 kill scum

N4 - mason2 dies
(4players)

last 1v1 between me and psyche
if we miss the kill hu tao can jailkeep anyways the last confscum

THEY NEED TO KILL HU TAO OR THIS IS A FUCKING MECH WIN FOR TOWN OK?

Omg you’re right

Unless it’s Hu Tao / Outworld / Gypyx

[ketchup777]

5 votes. We have 5 remaining town

Jackson, Outworld flips, then the 4 to hammer Gypyx are me/mason/Black/Psyche

[ketchup777]

Jackson you do realize scum has to kill Hu Tao night 4 otherwise they just lose cause she can just jailkeep the last scum even if we mislim in 4P ELo

basically the masonry is not dying you'll still have time to tunnel me out

No they don't, as it's an odd-night they can just kill them tomorrow. Scum have the freedom of action here not us

You mean they kill hu tao tonight?

No, I don't

ok so let's say we kill scum today / tommorow by going outside of the shit 1v1 and actually figuring this out

D3 kill scum

N3 - Hu tao misses her jailkeep, mason1 dies
(6players)

D4 kill scum

N4 - mason2 dies
(4players)

last 1v1 between me and psyche
if we miss the kill hu tao can jailkeep anyways the last confscum

THEY NEED TO KILL HU TAO OR THIS IS A FUCKING MECH WIN FOR TOWN OK?

Nope.

N4 the JK will be killed

Ahhhhhhh

We still need to get Outworld out. Please, gypyx won’t pocket me

[ketchup777]

Black, everyone, please read the analysis! It has to be OutWorld, it has to be!

I'll read it as soon as I have time. Can you link the main posts about it?

sure give me 3 mins (:

[ketchup777]

oh wow oops this isn't the scum PT haha, i slipped my bad, you can kill me now i guess

lol

gyp you know it's outworld help me out

[ketchup777]

VOTE: Gypyx

Jackson, please, Outworld has to be the kill here, he has to be

[ketchup777]

unvote until black reads my analysis at least

[ketchup777]

VOTE: OutWorldER

Black saying she’s ready to hammer people without reading my analysis is so scummy as well, come on, for the cookies, for the glory, for the AAAH IT HAS TO BE OUTWORLD

I'm not saying we have to hammer now, but I'm a firm believer that we should fade within the 1v1. I was just showing people that there's enough support to get either Gypyx or Psyche faded

okok I'm just scared that people rush this day into the wrong side of the 1v1. Will link my analysis now, although it doesn't span back more than 200 posts

[ketchup777]

wonder who it'll be

it won't be anyone

i'll stop arguing with you because i feel you are trying to rush black into voting you before i have time to link the analysis

NOONE VOTE GYPYX

[ketchup777]

STOP STOP MY ANALYSIS IS COMING

[ketchup777]

PLEASE COME ON DONT THROW 3000 POSTS INTO NOTHING

[ketchup777]

Ok guys, with pen, paper, 2 biscuits, sultanas and a banana milkshake, I have deduced that the mafia team MUST be one of the following teams.

I found all possible 7C3=35 combinations (yes, I am town, sorry, not doing 8C3 and wasting my time)
I first eliminated any where neither Gypyx or Psyche were present (got rid of 10 potential teams)
I then eliminated any which had Luca but not Jackson or Jackson but not Luca (a further 14 teams)
I then also removed Hu Tao / Psyche / OutWorld team as, with the logic Hu Tao brought me in post 2369, they have had ample time and opportunity to hammer Gypyx here. Expanding on that, his cannot be a sick scumteam not hammering because they fear a jailkeep, because Hu Tao is our alleged jailkeeper and it seems we would have no way to stop them winning.

These are the ten teams that are left, in listing order not of any indication of which I think is the most likely:

Hu Tao / Gypyx / Psyche
Hu Tao / Gypyx / Black
Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld
Hu Tao / Psyche / Black
Gypyx / Luca / Jackson
Gypyx / Psyche / Black
Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld
Gypyx / Black / Outworld
Luca / Jackson / Psyche
Psyche / Black / Outworld

Due to mod wifom, I think if Outworld is truthful with his macho claim as a townie, Hu Tao must also be town. This means the list can be reduced to:

Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld
Gypyx / Luca / Jackson
Gypyx / Psyche / Black
Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld
Gypyx / Black / Outworld
Luca / Jackson / Psyche
Psyche / Black / Outworld

7 possible case, guys. But I'm not 100% sure if I got the last step of logic right, so please comment. Come on, we can nail them.

You've made assumptions that I'm not comfortable deciding the game based on

Which assumptions?

I’m assuming you two are masons, but that shouldn’t be a problem for you.
I’m assuming that those two setups are too overpowered, yes, if you think I’m wrong please tell me.
The only assumption that might be eh for you is me being townie. Please, I need you to believe me. I’m VT.

Actually, you don’t even need to think I’m town at this stage. If I’m scum, OutWorld is also scum for his VT neapolitan reading of me. Then it has to be on of Gypyx/Psyche because of the red check, so the only possible scum teams with me in are:

Ketchup / OutWorld / Gypyx
Ketchup / Outworld / Psyche

The second one is not even possible, because we could have hammered Gypyx when she was at E-2. So the only 'possible' scum team with me in is specifically

Ketchup / OutWorld / Gypyx. Outworks and Gypyx have to town read me, then. But you don’t! If I’m scum, Outworld is still scum. Come to the light! please (:

1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld

2. Gypyx / Luca / Jackson

3. Gypyx / Psyche / Black

4. Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld

5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld

6. Luca / Jackson / Psyche

7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

Spoiler:

Setup stuff:

bear in mind mafia power is unknown. below setups are based on the assumption there are no outstanding town claims that are fake / hiding a PR

1. Odd-night vig, 1- shot watcher, 2 Masons

2. Odd-night vig, 1-shot watcher, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan

3. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan, 2 Masons

4. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

5. Odd-night vig, 1-shot watcher, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

6. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan

7. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

If Gypyx vs Psyche is not a bus, and Jackson+Luca are Masons, the only possible teams are

1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld
5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld
7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

Which have common multiple Outworld

but those are 2 assumptions I‘m not prepared to make yet

1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld

2. Gypyx / Luca / Jackson

3. Gypyx / Psyche / Black

4. Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld

5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld

6. Luca / Jackson / Psyche

7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

Spoiler:

Setup stuff:

bear in mind mafia power is unknown. below setups are based on the assumption there are no outstanding town claims that are fake / hiding a PR

1. Odd-night vig, 1- shot watcher, 2 Masons

2. Odd-night vig, 1-shot watcher, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan

3. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan, 2 Masons

4. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

5. Odd-night vig, 1-shot watcher, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

6. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan

7. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

If 2 is the team, we have:

Insanely prolonged+heated+unpleasant Jackson+Gypyx argument
all 3 on Dann's wagon (this is the only possible case where all 3 were on the wagon)
Jackson immediately coming in to slate Gypyx
Only 1 on Titus' wagon

I think this is the least likely one right now

Indeed, if the team is 6 (Luca / Jackson / Psyche), this is the only other case of 1 being on Titus' wagon, and Jackson had ample opportunity to hammer, so I look upon the masonry as quite likely now

1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld

2. Gypyx / Luca / Jackson

3. Gypyx / Psyche / Black

4. Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld

5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld

6. Luca / Jackson / Psyche

7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

Setup stuff:

bear in mind mafia power is unknown. below setups are based on the assumption there are no outstanding town claims that are fake / hiding a PR

1. Odd-night vig, 1- shot watcher, 2 Masons

2. Odd-night vig, 1-shot watcher, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan

3. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan, 2 Masons

4. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

5. Odd-night vig, 1-shot watcher, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

6. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan

7. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

I must now seek out the wonders of sleep and bedtime. Will do my own analysis on stuff in the morning, but please, anyone, talk about this stuff.

Am I correct that 3 and 5 seem like too much town power?

1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld

2. Gypyx / Luca / Jackson

3. Gypyx / Psyche / Black

4. Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld

5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld

6. Luca / Jackson / Psyche

7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

Setup stuff:

bear in mind mafia power is unknown. below setups are based on the assumption there are no outstanding town claims that are fake / hiding a PR

1. Odd-night vig, 1- shot watcher, 2 Masons

2. Odd-night vig, 1-shot watcher, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan

3. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan, 2 Masons

4. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

5. Odd-night vig, 1-shot watcher, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

6. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan

7. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, 2 Masons

I must now seek out the wonders of sleep and bedtime. Will do my own analysis on stuff in the morning, but please, anyone, talk about this stuff.

Jackson, Luca. If you are masons, the only possible case where OutWorld is not scum is case 3.

Gypyx / Psyche / Black

I guess it comes down to the following:

Do you think Odd-night vig, Odd-night Jailkeeper, Neapolitan, 2 Masons is a balanced setup? I'm new to this but even to me it doesn't seem balanced.

Not just ketchup, hu tao as well.

The split is approximately { ketchup, hu tao, gypyx } + { black, psyche, mel, luca } and then outworld as like a middleman that has seeded themselves into both sides.

Ok so OWER just needs to decide who he thinks is scum. He can either hammer Gypyx or he can vote Psyche and I'll hammer

Resolving the 1v1 has to be the play. Unless the analysis on OWER is like some Sherlock Holmes shit

Black, everyone, please read the analysis! It has to be OutWorld, it has to be!

Jackson, you say you worry for future days if the masonry is attacked, well, if there’s 6 of us left and it’s 3 for an elim you have {black,alive mason, psyche} to vote Gypyx if need be. If it’s 4, I could well vote her at some point. But seriously:

It seems to be >90% OWER is scum
1v1 is like 60% chance on each
Don’t trust your gut trust the logic

Outworld analysis:

In 3009 I narrowed the scumteam down to 7 cases. I later realised in 3108 from outside POV not knowing I’m town the only possible other scumteam is Ketchup / OutWorld / Gypyx, which still has Outworld in. 3029 started some flawed analysis in that I made 2 unreasonable assumptions, but then it got better.
3040 methinking there were 3 scum on Titus’ wagon suggests Luca and Jackson are masons

3065 setup, all we need to think about is case 3, having reasonably assumed now that Jackson and Luca are masons. See 3109

COME ON PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Fixed formatting.

[ketchup777]

I think for the sake of the game, this needs to be done.

VOTE: gypyx

E-1

If it's wrong, then we were probably always doomed to lose anyway. We need to shut this noise off to be able to process the game properly on the following days, in my opinion. gypyx is causing way too many distractions.

Luca, I promise the game is not lost by voting out the only possible scum here. PLEASEEEEEEEEEEE

[ketchup777]

didn't read it

look, gyp, ily but please enter happy mindset so we don't lose this game on emotions

[ketchup777]

Also why would you ever not vote for Psyche? He's the only confscum if you are town here

To compromise and get out other scum, Outworld is practically 100% as well, have fun with my analysis

[ketchup777]

UNVOTE:

For Ketchup

Thank you thank you thank you

[ketchup777]

post 3242

[ketchup777]

1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld
2. Gypyx / Luca / Jackson
3. Gypyx / Psyche / Black
4. Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld
5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld
6. Luca / Jackson / Psyche
7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

Removing the masonry
1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld
3. Gypyx / Psyche / Black
4. Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld
5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld
7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

Gypyx is in every single one bar one. Outworld is also in every single one bar one. One is in a 50/50 who happens to also be the one that is acting toxic to the thread health. The only way Outworld is confirmed to be a wolf in all worlds is if you assume that this is impossible to be a bus, which I don't want to commit to the idea of just yet but I'm also aware this could be just because I want Gypyx out above all else.

No Jackson, I also had the logic that case 3 is a wack setup:
3. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan, 2 Masons

[ketchup777]

Gypyx has been constantly trying to get out of voting for Psyche and it's absolutely baffling to me. I think they are both just scum

we'll be chilling anyway if that's the case

[ketchup777]

PLEASE COME ON DONT THROW 3000 POSTS INTO NOTHING

I still want to read your analysis but this morning was the only real time I'll get to be at my PC today

I don't think the odds get much better than a 50/50 shot in Gypyx/Psyche

ITS HERE THE ODDS ARE SO GOOD POST 3242 POST 3242

[ketchup777]

1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld
2. Gypyx / Luca / Jackson
3. Gypyx / Psyche / Black
4. Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld
5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld
6. Luca / Jackson / Psyche
7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

Removing the masonry
1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld
3. Gypyx / Psyche / Black
4. Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld
5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld
7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

Gypyx is in every single one bar one. Outworld is also in every single one bar one. One is in a 50/50 who happens to also be the one that is acting toxic to the thread health. The only way Outworld is confirmed to be a wolf in all worlds is if you assume that this is impossible to be a bus, which I don't want to commit to the idea of just yet but I'm also aware this could be just because I want Gypyx out above all else.

No Jackson, I also had the logic that case 3 is a wack setup:
3. Odd-night vig, Odd-night jailkeeper, Neapolitan, 2 Masons

I give you that but there's much more to the game than just the mechanically optimal push. What's gonna happen given we flip outworld and the game continues? If I survive, Gypyx and I continue to bash our heads together and make the game absolutely miserable to play. I'm just done dude, I just want her out

if one of you has to replace out to save us, sacrifice. please let maths beat emotions

[ketchup777]

I wouldn't mind voting Black out today.

I understand it's a tad more risky than Outworld, but if it's correct then it solves a lot of problems going into the next day.

Too risky. Could be epic throw on Hu Tao / Outworld / Gypyx

[ketchup777]

4. If you wish to replace out, request replacement via PM. Do not discuss replacing out in thread or suggest that another player replace out.

Just fyi

oops sorry

[ketchup777]

please don't modkill me

[ketchup777]

now is not the time

[ketchup777]

If Gypyx vs Psyche is not a bus, and Jackson+Luca are Masons, the only possible teams are

1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld
5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld
7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

I'm not convinced Gypyx vs Psyche isn't a bus. Actually I think it's pretty likely it is a bus considering Gypyx has threatened to vote for Jackson and now OWER instead of Psyche, who should be confscum from her perspective if she's town. I think she's trying to misfade Jackson or OWER and end the game now instead of going through with the bus since she knows she won't be getting much towncred afterwards

Also I'm not scum, and I doubt Hu Tao is, so none of these scenarios really work

yes, this is the embryonic bad bit of the analysis. don't ignore the rest please (:

[ketchup777]

At this point, i just want to get this day over and see a flip.

VOTE: Outworld

Might be E-1, not sure.

I wish, it's E-3 lmao

[ketchup777]

Luca ily

[ketchup777]

I wouldn't mind voting Black out today.

I understand it's a tad more risky than Outworld, but if it's correct then it solves a lot of problems going into the next day.

There is confirmed scum in Gypyx/Psyche and you want to vote for me?

confirmed scum outside too, it came free with your reduced PoE (bare minimum the masons / Ketchup are clear)

you don't even need me to be clear as I said in 3108

[ketchup777]

i mean yeah i'm calling you clear in ref to this post

okok

Guys, worst timing, but at 4 I have to disappear to play in something for like 2.5 hours. Please don't mess this up. I've sacrificed days of a level mocks revision to win here

[ketchup777]

Blegh, I wanted to force ketchups hand not have my hand forced this is not what I signed up for

hello, here are my hands. The only possible team with me in is
Ketchup / OutWorld / Gypyx, where we can vote either Outworld or Gypyx safely

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: Unfinished Gypyx case I probably won't finish

Opportunism Surrounding EoD1

I believe Gypyx acted opportunistic surrounding end of day 1, they were pretty consistent through the majority of day one or at least from memory but as soon as the pressure of the hammer spun around Gypyx seemed to shift their behaviour somewhat that began from post 679 where they seem to be jumping off the wagon with the preface of that if doing the action comes to bite her (Gypyx) in the ass, they would have Dannflor as a scapegoat. It reads as generally acting avoidant to responsibility for their own actions, their action in this circumstance being them removing their vote at a considerably important time in the day only to put pressure onto Dannflor in 684 in a way that feels fake, it feels like it was stated for the sake of vanity or to assert dominance in the thread moreso than them putting pressure on them in the hopes to solve Dannflor.

Scum!gypyx has the general obligation to try and control the end of day to a much more important degree than town!gypyx would and I feel like that shading on Delta's scum-reads in 690 was to try and position herself above Delta and to be able to set themselves up as a possible swing onto Delta if push comes to shove.

It feels like she's positioning herself

moreso than trying to solve the game, which comes up later to the current phase where they seemed to have tried to position themselves both regarding the results of the massclaim regarding their initial push on Psyche as well as her general solve prior to the masonry getting claimed. I tried testing and poking that solve multiple times to see if she humours a position she doesn't necessarily want or believe but if she's wrong etc which I will bring up in a subsequent section.

If you read this general period from 679 to the day conclusion at 819, can you honestly say that this behaviour is not opportunistic and the outcome of trying to position oneself when given the freedom to do so? I've called out only a few posts in particular but if I picked a random post between 679 and 819 there's a good chance it's what I would deem to be opportunistic and I welcome you to quote things for my thoughts on them because this is a minor point in comparison with my others.

This point was made under the assumption that I can accurately gauge the speed that the game occurred within when only looking back through the game's context as I was not in the game at this point and therefore if this was a super quick or super slow comparatively to how I am assuming it was then that could change my viewpoints but this is hypothetical, I am not sure if I will ever consider this to be not opportunistic.

Behaviour Surrounding Critique

Since I replaced in, I dropped a vote onto Gypyx pretty fast because I caught onto them because of the logic based in my previous section. Their response back to me was pretty bad considering it all, they decided to instead take my read for what it is, they decided to discredit my entire slot instead in 1230 with "oh no jacob rolled scum again ". I don't believe this was anywhere near justified to say if not to get in early before I can push them any further which is a common pattern for Gypyx, referring directly to them trying to shut my thoughts down around the mass-claim when I said that I solved the game. This is a consistent behaviour trope for Gypyx this game.

When I pushed back on this behaviour, they instead go back on their own beliefs and shift it to a town-read with the exact quote being "jokes aside this is a very towny start" in 1232 which seems to be them

avoiding responsibility

to shift their position to one where they attempt to get me on their good side, which is shown in a much greater light by all the praise/flattery and general niceties such as 1234, 1236 and 1439 as examples which seems to be doing very soft "puppy dog"-like wording which didn't seem to fit with their acknowledgement of their "paranoia" of me in 1201 with their "oh no it's so over we're so read oh god oh fuck no no no no no no no no no" referring to a game where I won as wolf against them. These interactions aren't consistent and the way they explain this inconsistency is just "just having fun with things" in 1448 which is once again not taking responsibility for their behaviour and just throwing it away as just a joke since the pocketing just wasn't working on me so they had to shift to

positioning themselves

in a way that benefits this position and that was to keep me in the PoE by labelling me as "yeah not pushing this cuz I have this push, but you're not townie" in 1444 which was always something I hated but never brought back up. It really is positioning themselves to be able to push anybody they need to moreso than genuinely seeming to solve the game.

omg I just realised I forgot to read your last unfinished one. Is this the same as the last one?

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: Unfinished Gypyx case I probably won't finish

Opportunism Surrounding EoD1

I believe Gypyx acted opportunistic surrounding end of day 1, they were pretty consistent through the majority of day one or at least from memory but as soon as the pressure of the hammer spun around Gypyx seemed to shift their behaviour somewhat that began from post 679 where they seem to be jumping off the wagon with the preface of that if doing the action comes to bite her (Gypyx) in the ass, they would have Dannflor as a scapegoat. It reads as generally acting avoidant to responsibility for their own actions, their action in this circumstance being them removing their vote at a considerably important time in the day only to put pressure onto Dannflor in 684 in a way that feels fake, it feels like it was stated for the sake of vanity or to assert dominance in the thread moreso than them putting pressure on them in the hopes to solve Dannflor.

Scum!gypyx has the general obligation to try and control the end of day to a much more important degree than town!gypyx would and I feel like that shading on Delta's scum-reads in 690 was to try and position herself above Delta and to be able to set themselves up as a possible swing onto Delta if push comes to shove.

It feels like she's positioning herself

moreso than trying to solve the game, which comes up later to the current phase where they seemed to have tried to position themselves both regarding the results of the massclaim regarding their initial push on Psyche as well as her general solve prior to the masonry getting claimed. I tried testing and poking that solve multiple times to see if she humours a position she doesn't necessarily want or believe but if she's wrong etc which I will bring up in a subsequent section.

If you read this general period from 679 to the day conclusion at 819, can you honestly say that this behaviour is not opportunistic and the outcome of trying to position oneself when given the freedom to do so? I've called out only a few posts in particular but if I picked a random post between 679 and 819 there's a good chance it's what I would deem to be opportunistic and I welcome you to quote things for my thoughts on them because this is a minor point in comparison with my others.

This point was made under the assumption that I can accurately gauge the speed that the game occurred within when only looking back through the game's context as I was not in the game at this point and therefore if this was a super quick or super slow comparatively to how I am assuming it was then that could change my viewpoints but this is hypothetical, I am not sure if I will ever consider this to be not opportunistic.

Behaviour Surrounding Critique

Since I replaced in, I dropped a vote onto Gypyx pretty fast because I caught onto them because of the logic based in my previous section. Their response back to me was pretty bad considering it all, they decided to instead take my read for what it is, they decided to discredit my entire slot instead in 1230 with "oh no jacob rolled scum again ". I don't believe this was anywhere near justified to say if not to get in early before I can push them any further which is a common pattern for Gypyx, referring directly to them trying to shut my thoughts down around the mass-claim when I said that I solved the game. This is a consistent behaviour trope for Gypyx this game.

When I pushed back on this behaviour, they instead go back on their own beliefs and shift it to a town-read with the exact quote being "jokes aside this is a very towny start" in 1232 which seems to be them

avoiding responsibility

to shift their position to one where they attempt to get me on their good side, which is shown in a much greater light by all the praise/flattery and general niceties such as 1234, 1236 and 1439 as examples which seems to be doing very soft "puppy dog"-like wording which didn't seem to fit with their acknowledgement of their "paranoia" of me in 1201 with their "oh no it's so over we're so read oh god oh fuck no no no no no no no no no" referring to a game where I won as wolf against them. These interactions aren't consistent and the way they explain this inconsistency is just "just having fun with things" in 1448 which is once again not taking responsibility for their behaviour and just throwing it away as just a joke since the pocketing just wasn't working on me so they had to shift to

positioning themselves

in a way that benefits this position and that was to keep me in the PoE by labelling me as "yeah not pushing this cuz I have this push, but you're not townie" in 1444 which was always something I hated but never brought back up. It really is positioning themselves to be able to push anybody they need to moreso than genuinely seeming to solve the game.

omg I just realised I forgot to read your last unfinished one. Is this the same as the last one?

Oh did I already post it?

maybe it was just the picture I can't remember

stress stress stress

[ketchup777]

Lmfao, I believe every time I did it it was a gif of noah sebastian

yeah I think i didn't open the one before this

you got me again LMFAO

[ketchup777]

Gypyx how confident are you in outworld

On a setup basis it's simple, if you're town either he *is* scum or the team is like

Hu Tao + Psyche + whoever

on a reads basis it's simple
> Psyche is 1v1'ing me
> Hu Tao is probably one of the only reasons i'm not back to screaming at you which i belive is protown
> Ketchup is bleeding towniness
> You / Luca are conftown
> Me is me
> This leaves Outworld / Black / Psyche

Don't do that. No case there works.

Hu Tao+Psyche+?

?=

not Jackson or Luca because they're together
not me because Outworld confirmed me as VT
not Outworld because 2369 logic, they could've blitzhammered
not you from your POV
not Black because then OutWorld's macho doesn't make sense


I have to go

don't mess this up
Outworld has to be gone

[ketchup777]

1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld

2. Gypyx / Luca / Jackson

3. Gypyx / Psyche / Black

4. Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld

5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld

6. Luca / Jackson / Psyche

7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

+8. Ketchup / Outworld / Gypyx

guys I'm not fully caught up but OMG Luca's vote on OutWorld not getting blitzhammered means we can for sure rule out team 3.
This means the doubt is gone. If you believe in the masonry, OutWorld is scum.

[ketchup777]

Jackson if it is gypyx, I will put the most effort in to case her. I promise

[ketchup777]

1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld

2. Gypyx / Luca / Jackson

3. Gypyx / Psyche / Black

4. Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld

5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld

6. Luca / Jackson / Psyche

7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

+8. Ketchup / Outworld / Gypyx

guys I'm not fully caught up but OMG Luca's vote on OutWorld not getting blitzhammered means we can for sure rule out team 3.
This means the doubt is gone. If you believe in the masonry, OutWorld is scum.

In the miracle outworld flips town, it's luca / jackson / psyche. I think team 2 can be ruled out as well because of how strong the argument got, no way jackson/gypyx is a bus. so it can't help to vote gypyx

[ketchup777]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ y'all should read that or i'm litterally quitting mafia

I promise I'll read it in a sec, just finding something before I forget

[ketchup777]

Wait you can nest spoiler tags?

welcome to the future

woahhh

[ketchup777]

please let's size down the posts though, this is not team mafia or anything, minis are supposed to be small and chill

I'm having a great time
What's the longest simple normal ever?

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: Readme plz

Spoiler: Woah, click meee

lmao I thought you were going to have like ten

[ketchup777]

Redacted. Please be mindful of rule 7.

[ketchup777]

please let's size down the posts though, this is not team mafia or anything, minis are supposed to be small and chill

I'm having a great time
What's the longest simple normal ever?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Records

somewhat outdated but i think it's a good approximation

682 irl days what the hell

[ketchup777]

ketchuppp if i wait to read and reply to that post until like tomorrow will you hate me forever

psycheeeee I will never hate you take a health break

[ketchup777]

1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld

2. Gypyx / Luca / Jackson

3. Gypyx / Psyche / Black

4. Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld

5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld

6. Luca / Jackson / Psyche

7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

+8. Ketchup / Outworld / Gypyx

guys I'm not fully caught up but OMG Luca's vote on OutWorld not getting blitzhammered means we can for sure rule out team 3.
This means the doubt is gone. If you believe in the masonry, OutWorld is scum.

just resurfacing this
now to read Gypyx

[ketchup777]

I'm going on a date in like 10 minutes so my response to your post will have to wait, I will try and keep it nice and concise OR spoiler it and have a TL;DR blurb about each point

bro has a different one every night

[ketchup777]

Yeah but like we would have to compromise for that and this town certainely isn't

I want 100% certainty. Outworld vote gets me as close as I can be to that

[ketchup777]

Yeah but like we would have to compromise for that and this town certainely isn't

I want 100% certainty. Outworld vote gets me as close as I can be to that

And if I were to say I outright refuse to vote outworld?

I would be sad, Jackson. you know the fable where its something like theres a lion who could go for the easy prey of an asleep rabbit. But just then he spies a gazelle or smth. He runs after the gazelle but the gazelle escapes. Resigned, he goes back to get the rabbit - but the the rabbit has fleed. There is nothing left for this lion, he shouldn't have succumbed to his avarice.

you = lion
outworld = easy rabbit prey
gypyx = gazelle

[ketchup777]

there are two gazelles!

hahaha you’re right bestie (:

only one gazelle is under the eyes of alpha lion Jackson right now tho

[ketchup777]

obvious pocketing attempt calling jacob a lion, are you even trying

whoops I thought it was subtle

[ketchup777]

Spoiler:

it's a lot of stuff but basically

> i'm not seeing the towniness in psyche, like, i would probably be less infuriated if i felt like i was being outplayed or that i could even see what's towny about Psyche, but i don't, not a single bit, and i guess the case that luca / you made anger me even more in that they're treating it as something that's plain for the eye to see while i just have no clue what i can even bring up in response cause i don't see what they're seeing

i can understeand how you're playing around your view but i just don't get how you reached it

> I came in this game with the intent of playing more confident, and yeah, one could said scummy, the fact that this is being described as *only* scummy behavior is, i hope you understeand that one, very frustrating

A lot of us not agreeing comes from us expecting and looking for different things in townies

> And simply, i'm seeing flawed logic being used on me and i'm not in the mental state to make a calm and collected answer about it i can try now but basically as i've said before there's no reason for me to play like i did around dann D1 i would know he's wrong, know he's probably not gonna regain his cred thread after a while, and *especially* know my scumbuddies (i think we're going with Hu / Outworld right now?) are not getting wagoned as a consequence of that so i can just keep getting the day goingsss

and like, while i'll try keeping this point short cause i'm feeling really bad about it, yeah, it feels like i'm being confbiased against and that sucks and i'm sorry for lashing out like this

I can only speak for myself, I do not wish to pretend that I truly understand Luca's stance on Psyche as we have barely spoke about him in the masonry. My read prior to the mass-claim existed and that may very well be influencing how I'm seeing his progression surrounding the way he claimed his red-check to some degree but all in all I fail to see why a wolf would delay really performing that gambit as much as he did, and play it off like he did.

To be more specific, I am aware that scum holding off the claim until after the mass-claim has concluded is the smarter play and I am by no means arguing it isn't but even with that in mind, he revealed his information (1816)

before

luca had claimed (1973) so this would generally tell me that his feelings were that of really wanting it to escape his lips as opposed to waiting for it to be safe to let loose the gambit. It shows he was eager, which is consistent with the behaviour before

and

after the claim with him being not super pushy or very potent about it but demanding he "gets his podium" and to ask for people's attention. His pride about the check was clear to me, and in fact mimics the feelings (albeit in my case it was more in a negative situation) I had surrounding me wanting to claim the masonry. His spongebob picture resonated with me because that was how I was feeling even at that moment, though I didn't realise that was also his intent behind it. The claim would also be conducive to some form of a "high" that be very obviously had post-claim.

I just personally fail to see how this could be viewed as scummy, I felt it was incredibly pure of heart and exactly what I would expect to happen from a general low-poster having a bombshell to drop onto the evils.

Can you rephrase this if I am understanding this wrong, but as it stands it seems like you're saying the only scummy thing that we're calling you out for is your confidence when that's pretty clearly not the case at all. I won't comment further until I get clarification as I do not wish to speak about unnecessary things but when you clarify can you tell me what part of it is frustrating, and why it's so frustrating to you?

Indeed, but this also extends to the disagreements surrounding the whole Psyche vs Gypyx perspective that Hu Tao, Ketchup and the masonry were in. I feel it's quite clear that the masonry is holding vibes to a much smaller effect than the other two who used those as a primary focus to their reads before. While ketchup is now focusing more on process of elimination based way to decide the elimination that does not remove the fact that their main style of reading people seems to be from vibes moreso than what I would consider using logical analysis. I'm by no means saying that one way is better than the other but as one side is using one way of reading (and getting one conclusion) and the other is using the other (and getting the opposite conclusion) it's clear that one of us is using the correct means of reading Gypyx and the other simply isn't and I believe I am on the right side of that and as such I would need arguments that would disprove my own to be able to realistically look to the other side and I am not getting that.

Hu Tao for instance is just labelling something as "look at this, how can you not see this as town?" which I respect that she sees it as townie but that's nowhere even close to an argument I can do anything with so I respectfully disregard it. It's things like this that make it hard for me to really talk about which side is right and wrong because usually vibe-based reads are something I cannot realistically "replicate" the thought process for because it's based on personal feelings and experience. This is not to say that I reject the idea of reading by vibe as I often do as well, but strictly only when I have no thread I can logically piece together which once I find it then that becomes the primary pin of my read.

If somebody wants to appeal directly to me, speak to me in a way that doesn't rely on feelings, vibes and the like as much as you can.

You say you aren't in a mental state to make a calm and collected answer, but that's what I need from you to really get into my read and disassemble it to find the true accuracy of it. I don't see how scum!you wouldn't play like you did surrounding end of day one, why do you say that there's no reason? What part of it, and why.

And we're going with Black and Outworld right now

Confirmation bias is always going to be something every single argument is at risk of whether it's right or wrong, that's just the way it goes. I'm always going to more likely to side with my initial thoughts than to shift to the other with any given argument but that makes the burden of proof go to you as with me personally the scale is tilted so far against you as you are in a 50/50 as my scum-read, against my town-read and (I don't wanna harp on too much about this) but your behaviour made it incredibly difficult to try and understand you and empathise with you. I've attempted quite a lot of times to make sure that I not conf-biased but it's incredibly difficult when you aren't cooperating (to put it lightly) and I do fear that if you're town that this might not be recoverable anymore.

it's not news that Psyche has struggled to get his head in this game, this is, in my opinion, strong enough of a rationale to warrant wanting to claim a 1v1 as scum, would you really be giving the same weight to his accusations? maybe you would but i think ketchup / luca would absolutely be somewhat less convinced by Psyche.

Ithink the idea of the claim in itself is very good scumplay, of course we've already discussed at length about how 1-shot watcher makes or doesn't make sense
-This role is basically the minimal ammount of info needed to provide, 1 night of watcher results, this is also in line with scum!psyche + outworld knowing something doesn't add up, they wouldn't wanna get caught by a secret investigative or something
- It is also the minimal ammount of power that can be claimed, and while i don't say it's unidicative of town, it's certainely what scum would aim towards in order to avoid scrutiny due to there being too much claimed town power
- But as we can see, it also has extremely strong impact, something that either catches scum or does nothing is, and i'm saying this as someone who loves setup tinkering : bad design

as for the claim timing sorry i'm getting kinda tired but doing my best to explain everything, i disagree that this is a weird window for scum, especially since you're forgetting that scum!psyche *needs* (hyberbole but like, i think anyone who's ever played scum would agree it's hard to back off a plan you've spent the night prepping) to claim there cause i'd even say it is the latest time window for him to do so, scum!Psyche would need the town to start off in the wrong tracks or like, at least to seriously belive her, considering he would assume that Luca is some pretty strong unclaimed TPR, the best way to trump whatever he has to say is to go now, also, reminder that scums aren't robots that play perfectly, they do unoptimal stuff,

Psyche also waited until Hu Tao claimed her actions to do so, quite unnecessary for an "eager town" as you're saying but
i guess you could say he was afraid of hu tao being scum and piling on her? idk i'm kinda not confident i have much good to say about this point

i'm not saying this is your whole case, i'm basically annoyed at this part of the thread since i'm accused for something which i'm

like, look, i'll be going through my whole thoughtprocess since i feel like that's the only thing that can do it justice
*Fake Fantasy facts ends in me not being useful for anything since i have zero cred in my reads*
*Bianco complex ends in me losing cause i basically let myself coast through the game without challenging people enough

so, the solution to that was basically to craft a more active and agressive playstyle, sorting people by getting in there and pushing them around, i think this honestly works wonders about black for whom i managed to get a correct scumread, but i didn't expect the problem of the whole game thread not being magically able to sense my thoughts and agree immediatly, so i was kinda back in "no reads cred" zone which just really killed off my motivation

the other option would be writing big and logical cases but i'll be honest that's my least fave thing about playing mafia and i really prefer when i can keep all of my posts under 1 paragraph

and since in those 2 games my towncred was pretty naturally high, i felt like doing this kind of sacrifice wasn't gonna hurt me so much in the long run cause people would still be able to see i'm obvtown by my tone (author's note : she was

not

obvtown)

so yeah, i do understeand the scumreads somewhat, but what is annoying me is how much this shit isn't working and you seem completely unable to understeand what i was aiming for, although yes, i gotta recognize that it's probably way more my fault than anything

Well, and of course this is probably not worth anything since you think i'm scum but like, my opinion is that no matter what, scum can fake thought process and actual concrete game direct if they wish to do so, but have to expand a constant effort against it, which limits how much they can reasonably do

meanwhile, i think there's a level at which scum can basically acquire town vibes very easily yes (in fact i'd say that's probably what saved about half my scumgames, but there comes a point where it goes the other way, and unless you are EXTREMELY good, there's simply no way to fake this kind of exuberating towniness, this is the territory i belive i'm in today and i hope this explaination maybe helps you try to see it in a new light

the problem is that this is very much how a lot of vibes read works, of couse you can analyse it and pick it apart, but it's hard, and especially it becomes basically meaningless, just like you can't summarize a big case in very few words like "it's obviously town !"

and honestly, look that's a point i've been wanting to make but that i'm afraid is simply not your kind of thing

kinda have no other recourse though so here goes

I think you're undersestimating how quick scum me would realize that you're not the kind of player that's gonna be won over by extreme town vibes, and while i may be bad at managing your expectations still, i would not be making it worse for like 2 days straight, this kind of behaviour either comes from me being absolutely shit at scum, me gunning for some extremely hard WIFOM, or like, me being actually convinced that you are scum and as such having no interest in entertaining the idea of making sure i have a good relationship with you (of course in the future i'll probably avoid being such a nuisance but that's kinda how i'm thinking when i'm being abusive like that)

in fact rather than spamming the game thread during my outburst i'd probably be flooding the shit out of the scum PT, or like, maybe i'd still be going at you idk, but i think i would feel more remorse and attempt to at least hold me back since like, as scum you pretty much unavoidably feel a stronger bond with your scummates than you would do as a random VT with people who are very probably town

meanwhile, just take a step back and see what Psyche is doing, like obviously i get it's probably meaningless but you gotta admit he's playing perfectly if his engame is to end up buddies with you, Psyche, while i'm not familiar with his meta, has 10k posts, i assume he knows one or two things about playing scum, while his "i'm just a little guy" behaviour clashes with my expectations, even taking outside the fact that he's a man with a job and stuff

I've explained before and i'll summarize here since i think you're not really understeanding what my point here (this is actually the last part i'm writing i just really felt a strong urge to answer confbias first)

scum wants to kill town is a good assumption yes, and even more than that, scum wants to kill scary town, but, at the TOP of all priorities, scum doesn't want to get caught being scum

so, in the context of dann's wagon, we had the following things : Dann's wagon is being pushed "by itself" cause like, let's be real a lot of townies were in on pushing that, Ketchup / Luca come to mind first, and, as the end approaches Psyche all of a sudden leaves to kind of spend the remainder of his day doing nothing productive? Like sure he's defending Dann but he isn't actually pushing fowards any alternatives, he's trying to have his cake (towncred) and eat it (have Dann die regardless)

When brought to E-1, Dann makes a streak of very towny posts, once again, hindsight is king here, scum!me would've probably realized this was the post than brang dann over the edge and maybe something else could happen today

so, yeah, i could've hammered Dann but so what, hisreadlists was completely out of whack (no scum in the scummy people), his credibility was nuked and the next wagon was very likely deltaWave for her last minute pushing of dann, which yeah admittedly very much looked scummy too

Spoiler: votecount at the time of Psyche leaving

Votecount 1.7

Votecount 1.7

Dannflor (5):

Psyche, OutWorldER, Hu Tao, Black, Jacob24

(E-2)

Doctor Drew (2):

Dannflor, ketchup777

Hu Tao (1):

iamveryhappy

ketchup777 (1):

DeltaWave

Not Voting (4):

Gypyx, Luca Blight, ProjEctRy, Doctor Drew,

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-03 02:13:32)

Mod Notes

None

Do we agree that this looks like, REALLY bad for Psyche, espe since he really didn't do a whole lot with that being out of the wagon, same for outworld + black for what it's worth

meanwhile psyche's trajectory on dann, if i recall correctly, is him at first shading him, and as the push gained traction he actually left it, expressing a townread of Dann instead, i'm saying with confidence that this is posturing 101 and i hope you can understeand that

i could go on but i'm out of energy

the thing is, we're basically in this gamestate where both sides have very strong confbias, i'm saying this also at Hu Tao but like, this is not ending without someone giving up his reads and trusting the other basically

i'm gonna be honest i wish we could just not take my anger outburst into you reasoning, like, idk, i guess it makes sense for you but it doesn't make me feel good that i'm basically fucking up any chance i had by being a shithead, idk, can't force you, just showing you all my reasoning here

just like idk, not saying this makes me town but please don't expect my behaviour to be completely rational, wether i did it as town by basically being unsolvable or as town by completely antagonizing a townie it was a huge throw regardless and i think you're not realizing that

I rate this post 11/10

[ketchup777]

ughhh
so like
- it gets even harder for gypx to lose the 1v1 if another nk succeeds
- another nk succeeds because hu tao is all but hopelesssss
- i can't take another day of this
- if before this game ends the sun dies and the earth is flinged out of its orbit to freeze under an erstwhile eternal night before being absorbed into jupiter's core gypx will still be there spinning up multi-color wallposts explaining why im the scummiest thing since the british empire

No come on, Hu Tao has a very real chance of blocking. I am easy to go either way on the 1v1, I know I can’t speak for hu Tao, but come on! we take out world here, who’s scum vote wouldn’t help anyone, and get a free block attempt. what’s not to like
*sobs to no one listening to me*

[ketchup777]

ughhh
so like
- it gets even harder for gypx to lose the 1v1 if another nk succeeds
- another nk succeeds because hu tao is all but hopelesssss
- i can't take another day of this
- if before this game ends the sun dies and the earth is flinged out of its orbit to freeze under an erstwhile eternal night before being absorbed into jupiter's core gypx will still be there spinning up multi-color wallposts explaining why im the scummiest thing since the british empire

No come on, Hu Tao has a very real chance of blocking. I am easy to go either way on the 1v1, I know I can’t speak for hu Tao, but come on! we take out world here, who’s scum vote wouldn’t help anyone, and get a free block attempt. what’s not to like
*sobs to no one listening to me*

ketchup i really appreciate that you're trying to make what optimal but i think a lot of players (at least me / psyche / jackson) are being mentally spent more than reasonable by this game

hello! can I tempt you on a 2 day mental break? just sign here by voting outworld

I know i haven’t broke Jackson yet but I’ll keep trying

[ketchup777]

if town gets on board with outworld i'll vote him yes but like this is just delaying the important part

are you addicted to hammers

I know, but we have a potential block in hand (unless is You/ Hu Tao / Outworld). That’s biggggg

[ketchup777]

there's like zero chance that ower cleared his buddy ketchup in the Coolest Gambit Ever right

It’s a super cool awesome gambit.

Unfortunately

Ketchup / Outworld / Gypyx

hasn’t been ruled out for sure yet
I’ll try find a safe way to rule it out I guess?

[ketchup777]

me when I spend hundreds of pages bussing my teammate in order to stop my other teammate getting voted out

[ketchup777]

no. this is not optimal. it only hands more edge to scum. especially with hu tao locked on townreading gypx. if you're at all open to me being town you have to see this. it's worse odds and more hell

I’m sorry, I know it will put us all through more suffering. But for me I see not suffering, but fun! we take the safe route now, come on, this day doesn’t have to suffer anymore. We come back in 2 days and sort out the 1v1 once and for all, unless someone comes up with a super strategy (hi im trying to come up with a super strategy)

Can Hu Tao jailkeep herself?

[ketchup777]

the sun is setting im out im out im out im out

goodnight Psyche. i advise you think about voting Outworld (;

[ketchup777]

Ok guys, iiiiiiiits strategy time!!

*cue game show music*

Here, now, kapow kapow i will consider the four non-mason non-me scum cases and try figure out what we should do on an outworld flip, and what could happen if hu Tao succeeds / fails a block

let’s get this party started

[ketchup777]

no. this is not optimal. it only hands more edge to scum. especially with hu tao locked on townreading gypx. if you're at all open to me being town you have to see this. it's worse odds and more hell

I’m sorry, I know it will put us all through more suffering. But for me I see not suffering, but fun! we take the safe route now, come on, this day doesn’t have to suffer anymore. We come back in 2 days and sort out the 1v1 once and for all, unless someone comes up with a super strategy (hi im trying to come up with a super strategy)

Can Hu Tao jailkeep herself?

no

roles can't self target in normals, and in 99% of other games unless they're specifically designed for that no

Perfect thanks. Thought so but just wanted to confirm

Oh also I saw your self-targeting friendly neighbour role from ages back in the GIM thread. It is genius (;

[ketchup777]

no. this is not optimal. it only hands more edge to scum. especially with hu tao locked on townreading gypx. if you're at all open to me being town you have to see this. it's worse odds and more hell

I’m sorry, I know it will put us all through more suffering. But for me I see not suffering, but fun! we take the safe route now, come on, this day doesn’t have to suffer anymore. We come back in 2 days and sort out the 1v1 once and for all, unless someone comes up with a super strategy (hi im trying to come up with a super strategy)

Can Hu Tao jailkeep herself?

no

roles can't self target in normals, and in 99% of other games unless they're specifically designed for that no

Perfect thanks. Thought so but just wanted to confirm

Oh also I saw your self-targeting friendly neighbour role from ages back in the GIM thread. It is genius (;

stalking my iso huh

actually no it happened to be near the random page I was linked to

[ketchup777]

no. this is not optimal. it only hands more edge to scum. especially with hu tao locked on townreading gypx. if you're at all open to me being town you have to see this. it's worse odds and more hell

I’m sorry, I know it will put us all through more suffering. But for me I see not suffering, but fun! we take the safe route now, come on, this day doesn’t have to suffer anymore. We come back in 2 days and sort out the 1v1 once and for all, unless someone comes up with a super strategy (hi im trying to come up with a super strategy)

Can Hu Tao jailkeep herself?

no

roles can't self target in normals, and in 99% of other games unless they're specifically designed for that no

Perfect thanks. Thought so but just wanted to confirm

Oh also I saw your self-targeting friendly neighbour role from ages back in the GIM thread. It is genius (;

stalking my iso huh

actually no it happened to be near the random page I was linked to

tbh GIM is plenty of banger roles, i should really try to design a setup around it sometime

it sounds fun yeahhah

[ketchup777]

Ok guys, iiiiiiiits strategy time!!

*cue game show music*

Here, now, kapow kapow i will consider the four non-mason non-me scum cases and try figure out what we should do on an outworld flip, and what could happen if hu Tao succeeds / fails a block

let’s get this party started

Yeah but like we would have to compromise for that and this town certainely isn't

I want 100% certainty. Outworld vote gets me as close as I can be to that

And if I were to say I outright refuse to vote outworld?

And if I were to say I outright refuse to vote outside Outworld (today)?

[ketchup777]

Well I refuse to be narrowed by one thought as much as you probably, but this is not an admittal I’ll cave in because aaaaah if Black / Outworld / Psyche are playing us it’s so stupid so stupidddddddd

[ketchup777]

You say I’m the one reading on vibes yet I literally have a guaranteed scum flip

[ketchup777]

I refuse to believe you've never been super confident about a read before and got it wrong Jackson. Admit you can make mistakes pleaseeeeeeeeeee

[ketchup777]

1. Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld

4. Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld

5. Gypyx / Black / Outworld

7. Psyche / Black / Outworld

and then there were 4. (5 for people who can't trust me).

Case 1: Hu Tao / Gypyx / Outworld

We vote OutWorld out, and there is no jailkeeper after all. Hu Tao has to fake-claim a jailkeep on the wrong person. Alternative: scum no kill and Hu Tao pretends she did a successful jailkeep. Alert! watch out for this in the future. However though this gambit is a thing, it still leaves us well-placed at a 5v2.

Case 2: Gypyx / Psyche / Outworld

Outworld flips scum. Hu Tao chances a jailkeep. If it succeeds, or scum no kill, our advantage grows. If someone dies, we can truly focus on the 1v1 of Gyp/Psyche.



If she is successful, we buy another day and have 5 vs 2.

Case 3: Gypyx / Black / Outworld

Outworld flips scum. Black will be put in a tricky spot, may well try to find a way out of bussing Gypyx, exposing herself in the process.

Case 4: Psyche / Black / Outworld

(the danger case of voting Gypyx).[/color]

We get more time to nail the 1v1. win

[ketchup777]

that was not quoting post 3012 that was a new post. not my best post. i struggled, i've decided to do a votecount analysis on Psyche / Black / Outworld

[ketchup777]

no I need to go sleep

[ketchup777]

I refuse to believe you've never been super confident about a read before and got it wrong Jackson. Admit you can make mistakes pleaseeeeeeeeeee

Never said I couldn't

mmmm sleep on it
I’m going to sleep

[ketchup777]

Final thought: If it is Psyche / Black / Outworld , they’ve literally just had to sit back and relax while we destroy each other. painful af

[ketchup777]

Yeah I think this was just a gambit gone wrong by Gypyx/Psyche

They were gonna try the bus and let the survivor cruise off the town cred until they saw people saying they could both be scum. Then Gypyx started to entertain the idea of voting Jackson, and is now wanting OWER. They're just going for the win now instead of the bus play

I haven't had the chance to see who would make sense as a third in this scenario. I'm still like 40 pages behind lol

Only Outworld works as a third there. You used to work as a third but you haven’t hammered outworld so yea

[ketchup777]

I mean if you three are mafia who decided not to blitzhammer, dam. I concede

[ketchup777]

i almost got hit by a car tonight
im taking it as a timely reminder

Aaaah stay safe

[ketchup777]

Why can't OWER/ketchup be paired

We can be paired if it’s OWER/ ketchup / Gypyx, that’s it

[ketchup777]

Yeah I think this was just a gambit gone wrong by Gypyx/Psyche

They were gonna try the bus and let the survivor cruise off the town cred until they saw people saying they could both be scum. Then Gypyx started to entertain the idea of voting Jackson, and is now wanting OWER. They're just going for the win now instead of the bus play

I haven't had the chance to see who would make sense as a third in this scenario. I'm still like 40 pages behind lol

Only Outworld works as a third there. You used to work as a third but you haven’t hammered outworld so yea

When was OWER at e-1?

And why can't Hu be scum with Psyche and Gypyx?

He’s been at E-3, and Black/Gypyx/Psyche can hammer him. Maybe you don’t want to. But you could.

Hu / Psyche / Gypyx can’t be scum because Outworld is macho so we need a reason for him to be macho

[ketchup777]

Why can't OWER/ketchup be paired

they would've hammered me when i was at 3 votes

Seems risky. In this world you flip town and if Hu manages to block the kill then ketchup/OWER/Psyche drop like dominoes

maybe. although it still gets us to a 2/3 if we go for hu tao, but I guess it can’t fully be ruled out you’re right

[ketchup777]

Jackson say we vote Gypyx out and Luca dies. What’s the plan tomorrow?

[ketchup777]

not vote out confscum outworld?

[ketchup777]

I'll probably cave in at some point ): I tried

[ketchup777]

sounds good

[ketchup777]

adorable you haven’t given up yet outworld

[ketchup777]

maybe I’ll just vote where outworld votes and we can finally move on

[ketchup777]

UNVOTE:

I eagerly await

[ketchup777]

i'm mostly caught up I just have to do a big thonkin

ok I will consider voting with you for the next 20 minutes, otherwise I’ll assume you’re waiting for scum buddies to discuss it in the PT

If you don’t want to vote in a rush no worries I will just assume it’s you

[ketchup777]

ok I had no intention of rushing by the way I just wanted to pressure outworld into a decision since I know he’s scum.

something to think about now hmm

[ketchup777]

Did outworld know I was lying and go for his teammate? Or did he believe i would genuinely slip up in the moment and rush the wrong person? This is what I need to decipher now

[ketchup777]

i didn't even see your post 3555 until the pedit when i was about to post so do with that what you will

you're wrong about me being scum though

You probably saw 3551

[ketchup777]

i don't know how to convince you at this point ketchup that the masons aren't real and i'm frankly out of energy to try

How many mafia do you think were on Titus’ wagon

[ketchup777]

i also just scrolled through a bunch of pages of you calling me confscum so why would I believe you?

I don’t know I thought something was worth a try

[ketchup777]

i don't know how to convince you at this point ketchup that the masons aren't real and i'm frankly out of energy to try

How many mafia do you think were on Titus’ wagon

JV/Luca have to be scum so anywhere from 0 to 1

One of their teammates has to be Gypyx or Psyche so the answer is 1.

But isn’t it a lot more likely to be a real masonry and 3 on the wagon?

[ketchup777]

Gypyx is at E-1

[ketchup777]

Ok, look, I know your perspective forces you to disband the masonry idea.

Open question:

is it more likely to be 1 or 3 on Titus’ wagon? (It can’t be 2)

[ketchup777]

Did outworld know I was lying and go for his teammate? Or did he believe i would genuinely slip up in the moment and rush the wrong person? This is what I need to decipher now

Wolves are bussing so they can eventually win the long game, it’s obvious as hell. They will never vote against the masonry here if they had any brains

I think you might be right
I’d rather force someone else to hammer though

[ketchup777]

Wait so you think scum is gypyx Jackson luca?

That’s what he said yeah.

[ketchup777]

This is the biggest hehe moment of all the hehe moments

Do you like my gambit attempt? I came up with it myself (;

[ketchup777]

I’ll unvote if u want someone else to hammer, I promise not to before everyone gets thwir thoughts in. I want to still reply to gypyx as a last ditch “i could be wrong” moment

sure go for it. We've got a reaction out of Outworld to analyse now anyway. I think the fact you're not rushing Luca to the hammer confirms at last to me the masonry is real.

[ketchup777]

I think scum thought I'd be an easy Elim tomorrow. So they went for titus

I agree. All cases with 3 on the wagon are the ones where the masonry is real, so it all adds up nicely.

[ketchup777]

Well that was funnnnn

[ketchup777]

I’ll unvote if u want someone else to hammer, I promise not to before everyone gets thwir thoughts in. I want to still reply to gypyx as a last ditch “i could be wrong” moment

sure go for it. We've got a reaction out of Outworld to analyse now anyway. I think the fact you're not rushing Luca to the hammer confirms at last to me the masonry is real.

Oh, you were still doubting it?

Not doubting it per se, but rather there was still a 15% chance or whatever it was fake. Now it's like 2%

[ketchup777]

Votecount 3.15

Votecount 3.15

Gypyx (4):

Psyche, Black, JacksonVirgo, OutWorldER

E-1

Psyche (2):

Gypyx, Hu Tao

Not Voting (2):

Luca Blight, ketchup777

With 8 Alive, it takes 5 to secure an execution, and 4 to secure a no execution.

Day Three ends in (expired on 2024-02-19 03:52:11)

Mod Notes

Combined Mod ISO is Here

how convenient the congregation upon Gypyx is now the deadly non-Gypyx potential team

[ketchup777]

Well I'm conf town. Or scum with gypyx. I could have hammered

Unfortunately I had already narrowed that down, but yeah, wahoo

[ketchup777]

Votecount 3.15

Votecount 3.15

Gypyx (4):

Psyche, Black, JacksonVirgo, OutWorldER

E-1

Psyche (2):

Gypyx, Hu Tao

Not Voting (2):

Luca Blight, ketchup777

With 8 Alive, it takes 5 to secure an execution, and 4 to secure a no execution.

Day Three ends in (expired on 2024-02-19 03:52:11)

Mod Notes

Combined Mod ISO is Here

how convenient the congregation upon Gypyx is now the deadly non-Gypyx potential team

sooo convenient

you know I wouldn't judge you if you were the mafiaaaaaaaa

[ketchup777]

VOTE: OutWorldEr

pointless but may as well get wagon-conducting rights

[ketchup777]

Any way talk to y’all in 3 hrs

have fun

[ketchup777]

anyway while we are in detente I would like to clarify although I am vanilla, I am NOT made of ice cream. please don't eat me

[ketchup777]

given that your gypx read is bound to factor into a jk choice i'd say the odds are far less than 20%
and then the math for actually limming her gets even worse

This is a slip.

He just confirmed gypyx is town.

I don't think you can conclude that

[ketchup777]

I think it's Gypyx/Hu/Psyche. They are finally abandoning the 1v1 and going for the win now with an OWER misfade

If we don't have enough support for a Gypyx fade we should go Psyche. I won't be voting outside of the 1v1

bzzzzzt wrong

No way there's an ungated neap along with 3 conftown roles already

This team also assumes that outworld would be a macho role without any actual town protectives which is very much excessive WIFOM

yeah macho should make that impossible

[ketchup777]

I'm starting to think it's Psyche

woah

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: Response

Pick a door, any door. See if you get the correct one...

Spoiler: Door 1

Spoiler: Door 2

Spoiler: Door 3

Spoiler: Door 4

Spoiler:

it's a lot of stuff but basically

> i'm not seeing the towniness in psyche, like, i would probably be less infuriated if i felt like i was being outplayed or that i could even see what's towny about Psyche, but i don't, not a single bit, and i guess the case that luca / you made anger me even more in that they're treating it as something that's plain for the eye to see while i just have no clue what i can even bring up in response cause i don't see what they're seeing

i can understeand how you're playing around your view but i just don't get how you reached it

> I came in this game with the intent of playing more confident, and yeah, one could said scummy, the fact that this is being described as *only* scummy behavior is, i hope you understeand that one, very frustrating

A lot of us not agreeing comes from us expecting and looking for different things in townies

> And simply, i'm seeing flawed logic being used on me and i'm not in the mental state to make a calm and collected answer about it i can try now but basically as i've said before there's no reason for me to play like i did around dann D1 i would know he's wrong, know he's probably not gonna regain his cred thread after a while, and *especially* know my scumbuddies (i think we're going with Hu / Outworld right now?) are not getting wagoned as a consequence of that so i can just keep getting the day goingsss

and like, while i'll try keeping this point short cause i'm feeling really bad about it, yeah, it feels like i'm being confbiased against and that sucks and i'm sorry for lashing out like this

I can only speak for myself, I do not wish to pretend that I truly understand Luca's stance on Psyche as we have barely spoke about him in the masonry. My read prior to the mass-claim existed and that may very well be influencing how I'm seeing his progression surrounding the way he claimed his red-check to some degree but all in all I fail to see why a wolf would delay really performing that gambit as much as he did, and play it off like he did.

To be more specific, I am aware that scum holding off the claim until after the mass-claim has concluded is the smarter play and I am by no means arguing it isn't but even with that in mind, he revealed his information (1816)

before

luca had claimed (1973) so this would generally tell me that his feelings were that of really wanting it to escape his lips as opposed to waiting for it to be safe to let loose the gambit. It shows he was eager, which is consistent with the behaviour before

and

after the claim with him being not super pushy or very potent about it but demanding he "gets his podium" and to ask for people's attention. His pride about the check was clear to me, and in fact mimics the feelings (albeit in my case it was more in a negative situation) I had surrounding me wanting to claim the masonry. His spongebob picture resonated with me because that was how I was feeling even at that moment, though I didn't realise that was also his intent behind it. The claim would also be conducive to some form of a "high" that be very obviously had post-claim.

I just personally fail to see how this could be viewed as scummy, I felt it was incredibly pure of heart and exactly what I would expect to happen from a general low-poster having a bombshell to drop onto the evils.

Can you rephrase this if I am understanding this wrong, but as it stands it seems like you're saying the only scummy thing that we're calling you out for is your confidence when that's pretty clearly not the case at all. I won't comment further until I get clarification as I do not wish to speak about unnecessary things but when you clarify can you tell me what part of it is frustrating, and why it's so frustrating to you?

Indeed, but this also extends to the disagreements surrounding the whole Psyche vs Gypyx perspective that Hu Tao, Ketchup and the masonry were in. I feel it's quite clear that the masonry is holding vibes to a much smaller effect than the other two who used those as a primary focus to their reads before. While ketchup is now focusing more on process of elimination based way to decide the elimination that does not remove the fact that their main style of reading people seems to be from vibes moreso than what I would consider using logical analysis. I'm by no means saying that one way is better than the other but as one side is using one way of reading (and getting one conclusion) and the other is using the other (and getting the opposite conclusion) it's clear that one of us is using the correct means of reading Gypyx and the other simply isn't and I believe I am on the right side of that and as such I would need arguments that would disprove my own to be able to realistically look to the other side and I am not getting that.

Hu Tao for instance is just labelling something as "look at this, how can you not see this as town?" which I respect that she sees it as townie but that's nowhere even close to an argument I can do anything with so I respectfully disregard it. It's things like this that make it hard for me to really talk about which side is right and wrong because usually vibe-based reads are something I cannot realistically "replicate" the thought process for because it's based on personal feelings and experience. This is not to say that I reject the idea of reading by vibe as I often do as well, but strictly only when I have no thread I can logically piece together which once I find it then that becomes the primary pin of my read.

If somebody wants to appeal directly to me, speak to me in a way that doesn't rely on feelings, vibes and the like as much as you can.

You say you aren't in a mental state to make a calm and collected answer, but that's what I need from you to really get into my read and disassemble it to find the true accuracy of it. I don't see how scum!you wouldn't play like you did surrounding end of day one, why do you say that there's no reason? What part of it, and why.

And we're going with Black and Outworld right now

Confirmation bias is always going to be something every single argument is at risk of whether it's right or wrong, that's just the way it goes. I'm always going to more likely to side with my initial thoughts than to shift to the other with any given argument but that makes the burden of proof go to you as with me personally the scale is tilted so far against you as you are in a 50/50 as my scum-read, against my town-read and (I don't wanna harp on too much about this) but your behaviour made it incredibly difficult to try and understand you and empathise with you. I've attempted quite a lot of times to make sure that I not conf-biased but it's incredibly difficult when you aren't cooperating (to put it lightly) and I do fear that if you're town that this might not be recoverable anymore.

it's not news that Psyche has struggled to get his head in this game, this is, in my opinion, strong enough of a rationale to warrant wanting to claim a 1v1 as scum, would you really be giving the same weight to his accusations? maybe you would but i think ketchup / luca would absolutely be somewhat less convinced by Psyche.

Ithink the idea of the claim in itself is very good scumplay, of course we've already discussed at length about how 1-shot watcher makes or doesn't make sense
-This role is basically the minimal ammount of info needed to provide, 1 night of watcher results, this is also in line with scum!psyche + outworld knowing something doesn't add up, they wouldn't wanna get caught by a secret investigative or something
- It is also the minimal ammount of power that can be claimed, and while i don't say it's unidicative of town, it's certainely what scum would aim towards in order to avoid scrutiny due to there being too much claimed town power
- But as we can see, it also has extremely strong impact, something that either catches scum or does nothing is, and i'm saying this as someone who loves setup tinkering : bad design

as for the claim timing sorry i'm getting kinda tired but doing my best to explain everything, i disagree that this is a weird window for scum, especially since you're forgetting that scum!psyche *needs* (hyberbole but like, i think anyone who's ever played scum would agree it's hard to back off a plan you've spent the night prepping) to claim there cause i'd even say it is the latest time window for him to do so, scum!Psyche would need the town to start off in the wrong tracks or like, at least to seriously belive her, considering he would assume that Luca is some pretty strong unclaimed TPR, the best way to trump whatever he has to say is to go now, also, reminder that scums aren't robots that play perfectly, they do unoptimal stuff,

Psyche also waited until Hu Tao claimed her actions to do so, quite unnecessary for an "eager town" as you're saying but
i guess you could say he was afraid of hu tao being scum and piling on her? idk i'm kinda not confident i have much good to say about this point

i'm not saying this is your whole case, i'm basically annoyed at this part of the thread since i'm accused for something which i'm

like, look, i'll be going through my whole thoughtprocess since i feel like that's the only thing that can do it justice
*Fake Fantasy facts ends in me not being useful for anything since i have zero cred in my reads*
*Bianco complex ends in me losing cause i basically let myself coast through the game without challenging people enough

so, the solution to that was basically to craft a more active and agressive playstyle, sorting people by getting in there and pushing them around, i think this honestly works wonders about black for whom i managed to get a correct scumread, but i didn't expect the problem of the whole game thread not being magically able to sense my thoughts and agree immediatly, so i was kinda back in "no reads cred" zone which just really killed off my motivation

the other option would be writing big and logical cases but i'll be honest that's my least fave thing about playing mafia and i really prefer when i can keep all of my posts under 1 paragraph

and since in those 2 games my towncred was pretty naturally high, i felt like doing this kind of sacrifice wasn't gonna hurt me so much in the long run cause people would still be able to see i'm obvtown by my tone (author's note : she was

not

obvtown)

so yeah, i do understeand the scumreads somewhat, but what is annoying me is how much this shit isn't working and you seem completely unable to understeand what i was aiming for, although yes, i gotta recognize that it's probably way more my fault than anything

Well, and of course this is probably not worth anything since you think i'm scum but like, my opinion is that no matter what, scum can fake thought process and actual concrete game direct if they wish to do so, but have to expand a constant effort against it, which limits how much they can reasonably do

meanwhile, i think there's a level at which scum can basically acquire town vibes very easily yes (in fact i'd say that's probably what saved about half my scumgames, but there comes a point where it goes the other way, and unless you are EXTREMELY good, there's simply no way to fake this kind of exuberating towniness, this is the territory i belive i'm in today and i hope this explaination maybe helps you try to see it in a new light

the problem is that this is very much how a lot of vibes read works, of couse you can analyse it and pick it apart, but it's hard, and especially it becomes basically meaningless, just like you can't summarize a big case in very few words like "it's obviously town !"

and honestly, look that's a point i've been wanting to make but that i'm afraid is simply not your kind of thing

kinda have no other recourse though so here goes

I think you're undersestimating how quick scum me would realize that you're not the kind of player that's gonna be won over by extreme town vibes, and while i may be bad at managing your expectations still, i would not be making it worse for like 2 days straight, this kind of behaviour either comes from me being absolutely shit at scum, me gunning for some extremely hard WIFOM, or like, me being actually convinced that you are scum and as such having no interest in entertaining the idea of making sure i have a good relationship with you (of course in the future i'll probably avoid being such a nuisance but that's kinda how i'm thinking when i'm being abusive like that)

in fact rather than spamming the game thread during my outburst i'd probably be flooding the shit out of the scum PT, or like, maybe i'd still be going at you idk, but i think i would feel more remorse and attempt to at least hold me back since like, as scum you pretty much unavoidably feel a stronger bond with your scummates than you would do as a random VT with people who are very probably town

meanwhile, just take a step back and see what Psyche is doing, like obviously i get it's probably meaningless but you gotta admit he's playing perfectly if his engame is to end up buddies with you, Psyche, while i'm not familiar with his meta, has 10k posts, i assume he knows one or two things about playing scum, while his "i'm just a little guy" behaviour clashes with my expectations, even taking outside the fact that he's a man with a job and stuff

I've explained before and i'll summarize here since i think you're not really understeanding what my point here (this is actually the last part i'm writing i just really felt a strong urge to answer confbias first)

scum wants to kill town is a good assumption yes, and even more than that, scum wants to kill scary town, but, at the TOP of all priorities, scum doesn't want to get caught being scum

so, in the context of dann's wagon, we had the following things : Dann's wagon is being pushed "by itself" cause like, let's be real a lot of townies were in on pushing that, Ketchup / Luca come to mind first, and, as the end approaches Psyche all of a sudden leaves to kind of spend the remainder of his day doing nothing productive? Like sure he's defending Dann but he isn't actually pushing fowards any alternatives, he's trying to have his cake (towncred) and eat it (have Dann die regardless)

When brought to E-1, Dann makes a streak of very towny posts, once again, hindsight is king here, scum!me would've probably realized this was the post than brang dann over the edge and maybe something else could happen today

so, yeah, i could've hammered Dann but so what, hisreadlists was completely out of whack (no scum in the scummy people), his credibility was nuked and the next wagon was very likely deltaWave for her last minute pushing of dann, which yeah admittedly very much looked scummy too

Spoiler: votecount at the time of Psyche leaving

Votecount 1.7

Votecount 1.7

Dannflor (5):

Psyche, OutWorldER, Hu Tao, Black, Jacob24

(E-2)

Doctor Drew (2):

Dannflor, ketchup777

Hu Tao (1):

iamveryhappy

ketchup777 (1):

DeltaWave

Not Voting (4):

Gypyx, Luca Blight, ProjEctRy, Doctor Drew,

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-03 02:13:32)

Mod Notes

None

Do we agree that this looks like, REALLY bad for Psyche, espe since he really didn't do a whole lot with that being out of the wagon, same for outworld + black for what it's worth

meanwhile psyche's trajectory on dann, if i recall correctly, is him at first shading him, and as the push gained traction he actually left it, expressing a townread of Dann instead, i'm saying with confidence that this is posturing 101 and i hope you can understeand that

i could go on but i'm out of energy

the thing is, we're basically in this gamestate where both sides have very strong confbias, i'm saying this also at Hu Tao but like, this is not ending without someone giving up his reads and trusting the other basically

i'm gonna be honest i wish we could just not take my anger outburst into you reasoning, like, idk, i guess it makes sense for you but it doesn't make me feel good that i'm basically fucking up any chance i had by being a shithead, idk, can't force you, just showing you all my reasoning here

just like idk, not saying this makes me town but please don't expect my behaviour to be completely rational, wether i did it as town by basically being unsolvable or as town by completely antagonizing a townie it was a huge throw regardless and i think you're not realizing that

I acknowledge all that you've said but I am still confident that scum wouldn't play like Psyche has done, if they had planned to go into the massclaim with a guilty, I believe they would generally hint that they got something spicy as soon as they pop in so that they have some form of backing to rely on when you get hit with some level of scrutiny regarding the red-check.

I read into the intent of posts, not just the direct content which is hard to fake over a long period of time.

That vote analysis lowkey makes my TR stronger

Spoiler: Door 5

I ACTUALLY GOT THE RIGHT ONE

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: Response

Pick a door, any door. See if you get the correct one...

Spoiler: Door 1

Spoiler: Door 2

Spoiler: Door 3

Spoiler: Door 4

Spoiler:

it's a lot of stuff but basically

> i'm not seeing the towniness in psyche, like, i would probably be less infuriated if i felt like i was being outplayed or that i could even see what's towny about Psyche, but i don't, not a single bit, and i guess the case that luca / you made anger me even more in that they're treating it as something that's plain for the eye to see while i just have no clue what i can even bring up in response cause i don't see what they're seeing

i can understeand how you're playing around your view but i just don't get how you reached it

> I came in this game with the intent of playing more confident, and yeah, one could said scummy, the fact that this is being described as *only* scummy behavior is, i hope you understeand that one, very frustrating

A lot of us not agreeing comes from us expecting and looking for different things in townies

> And simply, i'm seeing flawed logic being used on me and i'm not in the mental state to make a calm and collected answer about it i can try now but basically as i've said before there's no reason for me to play like i did around dann D1 i would know he's wrong, know he's probably not gonna regain his cred thread after a while, and *especially* know my scumbuddies (i think we're going with Hu / Outworld right now?) are not getting wagoned as a consequence of that so i can just keep getting the day goingsss

and like, while i'll try keeping this point short cause i'm feeling really bad about it, yeah, it feels like i'm being confbiased against and that sucks and i'm sorry for lashing out like this

I can only speak for myself, I do not wish to pretend that I truly understand Luca's stance on Psyche as we have barely spoke about him in the masonry. My read prior to the mass-claim existed and that may very well be influencing how I'm seeing his progression surrounding the way he claimed his red-check to some degree but all in all I fail to see why a wolf would delay really performing that gambit as much as he did, and play it off like he did.

To be more specific, I am aware that scum holding off the claim until after the mass-claim has concluded is the smarter play and I am by no means arguing it isn't but even with that in mind, he revealed his information (1816)

before

luca had claimed (1973) so this would generally tell me that his feelings were that of really wanting it to escape his lips as opposed to waiting for it to be safe to let loose the gambit. It shows he was eager, which is consistent with the behaviour before

and

after the claim with him being not super pushy or very potent about it but demanding he "gets his podium" and to ask for people's attention. His pride about the check was clear to me, and in fact mimics the feelings (albeit in my case it was more in a negative situation) I had surrounding me wanting to claim the masonry. His spongebob picture resonated with me because that was how I was feeling even at that moment, though I didn't realise that was also his intent behind it. The claim would also be conducive to some form of a "high" that be very obviously had post-claim.

I just personally fail to see how this could be viewed as scummy, I felt it was incredibly pure of heart and exactly what I would expect to happen from a general low-poster having a bombshell to drop onto the evils.

Can you rephrase this if I am understanding this wrong, but as it stands it seems like you're saying the only scummy thing that we're calling you out for is your confidence when that's pretty clearly not the case at all. I won't comment further until I get clarification as I do not wish to speak about unnecessary things but when you clarify can you tell me what part of it is frustrating, and why it's so frustrating to you?

Indeed, but this also extends to the disagreements surrounding the whole Psyche vs Gypyx perspective that Hu Tao, Ketchup and the masonry were in. I feel it's quite clear that the masonry is holding vibes to a much smaller effect than the other two who used those as a primary focus to their reads before. While ketchup is now focusing more on process of elimination based way to decide the elimination that does not remove the fact that their main style of reading people seems to be from vibes moreso than what I would consider using logical analysis. I'm by no means saying that one way is better than the other but as one side is using one way of reading (and getting one conclusion) and the other is using the other (and getting the opposite conclusion) it's clear that one of us is using the correct means of reading Gypyx and the other simply isn't and I believe I am on the right side of that and as such I would need arguments that would disprove my own to be able to realistically look to the other side and I am not getting that.

Hu Tao for instance is just labelling something as "look at this, how can you not see this as town?" which I respect that she sees it as townie but that's nowhere even close to an argument I can do anything with so I respectfully disregard it. It's things like this that make it hard for me to really talk about which side is right and wrong because usually vibe-based reads are something I cannot realistically "replicate" the thought process for because it's based on personal feelings and experience. This is not to say that I reject the idea of reading by vibe as I often do as well, but strictly only when I have no thread I can logically piece together which once I find it then that becomes the primary pin of my read.

If somebody wants to appeal directly to me, speak to me in a way that doesn't rely on feelings, vibes and the like as much as you can.

You say you aren't in a mental state to make a calm and collected answer, but that's what I need from you to really get into my read and disassemble it to find the true accuracy of it. I don't see how scum!you wouldn't play like you did surrounding end of day one, why do you say that there's no reason? What part of it, and why.

And we're going with Black and Outworld right now

Confirmation bias is always going to be something every single argument is at risk of whether it's right or wrong, that's just the way it goes. I'm always going to more likely to side with my initial thoughts than to shift to the other with any given argument but that makes the burden of proof go to you as with me personally the scale is tilted so far against you as you are in a 50/50 as my scum-read, against my town-read and (I don't wanna harp on too much about this) but your behaviour made it incredibly difficult to try and understand you and empathise with you. I've attempted quite a lot of times to make sure that I not conf-biased but it's incredibly difficult when you aren't cooperating (to put it lightly) and I do fear that if you're town that this might not be recoverable anymore.

it's not news that Psyche has struggled to get his head in this game, this is, in my opinion, strong enough of a rationale to warrant wanting to claim a 1v1 as scum, would you really be giving the same weight to his accusations? maybe you would but i think ketchup / luca would absolutely be somewhat less convinced by Psyche.

Ithink the idea of the claim in itself is very good scumplay, of course we've already discussed at length about how 1-shot watcher makes or doesn't make sense
-This role is basically the minimal ammount of info needed to provide, 1 night of watcher results, this is also in line with scum!psyche + outworld knowing something doesn't add up, they wouldn't wanna get caught by a secret investigative or something
- It is also the minimal ammount of power that can be claimed, and while i don't say it's unidicative of town, it's certainely what scum would aim towards in order to avoid scrutiny due to there being too much claimed town power
- But as we can see, it also has extremely strong impact, something that either catches scum or does nothing is, and i'm saying this as someone who loves setup tinkering : bad design

as for the claim timing sorry i'm getting kinda tired but doing my best to explain everything, i disagree that this is a weird window for scum, especially since you're forgetting that scum!psyche *needs* (hyberbole but like, i think anyone who's ever played scum would agree it's hard to back off a plan you've spent the night prepping) to claim there cause i'd even say it is the latest time window for him to do so, scum!Psyche would need the town to start off in the wrong tracks or like, at least to seriously belive her, considering he would assume that Luca is some pretty strong unclaimed TPR, the best way to trump whatever he has to say is to go now, also, reminder that scums aren't robots that play perfectly, they do unoptimal stuff,

Psyche also waited until Hu Tao claimed her actions to do so, quite unnecessary for an "eager town" as you're saying but
i guess you could say he was afraid of hu tao being scum and piling on her? idk i'm kinda not confident i have much good to say about this point

i'm not saying this is your whole case, i'm basically annoyed at this part of the thread since i'm accused for something which i'm

like, look, i'll be going through my whole thoughtprocess since i feel like that's the only thing that can do it justice
*Fake Fantasy facts ends in me not being useful for anything since i have zero cred in my reads*
*Bianco complex ends in me losing cause i basically let myself coast through the game without challenging people enough

so, the solution to that was basically to craft a more active and agressive playstyle, sorting people by getting in there and pushing them around, i think this honestly works wonders about black for whom i managed to get a correct scumread, but i didn't expect the problem of the whole game thread not being magically able to sense my thoughts and agree immediatly, so i was kinda back in "no reads cred" zone which just really killed off my motivation

the other option would be writing big and logical cases but i'll be honest that's my least fave thing about playing mafia and i really prefer when i can keep all of my posts under 1 paragraph

and since in those 2 games my towncred was pretty naturally high, i felt like doing this kind of sacrifice wasn't gonna hurt me so much in the long run cause people would still be able to see i'm obvtown by my tone (author's note : she was

not

obvtown)

so yeah, i do understeand the scumreads somewhat, but what is annoying me is how much this shit isn't working and you seem completely unable to understeand what i was aiming for, although yes, i gotta recognize that it's probably way more my fault than anything

Well, and of course this is probably not worth anything since you think i'm scum but like, my opinion is that no matter what, scum can fake thought process and actual concrete game direct if they wish to do so, but have to expand a constant effort against it, which limits how much they can reasonably do

meanwhile, i think there's a level at which scum can basically acquire town vibes very easily yes (in fact i'd say that's probably what saved about half my scumgames, but there comes a point where it goes the other way, and unless you are EXTREMELY good, there's simply no way to fake this kind of exuberating towniness, this is the territory i belive i'm in today and i hope this explaination maybe helps you try to see it in a new light

the problem is that this is very much how a lot of vibes read works, of couse you can analyse it and pick it apart, but it's hard, and especially it becomes basically meaningless, just like you can't summarize a big case in very few words like "it's obviously town !"

and honestly, look that's a point i've been wanting to make but that i'm afraid is simply not your kind of thing

kinda have no other recourse though so here goes

I think you're undersestimating how quick scum me would realize that you're not the kind of player that's gonna be won over by extreme town vibes, and while i may be bad at managing your expectations still, i would not be making it worse for like 2 days straight, this kind of behaviour either comes from me being absolutely shit at scum, me gunning for some extremely hard WIFOM, or like, me being actually convinced that you are scum and as such having no interest in entertaining the idea of making sure i have a good relationship with you (of course in the future i'll probably avoid being such a nuisance but that's kinda how i'm thinking when i'm being abusive like that)

in fact rather than spamming the game thread during my outburst i'd probably be flooding the shit out of the scum PT, or like, maybe i'd still be going at you idk, but i think i would feel more remorse and attempt to at least hold me back since like, as scum you pretty much unavoidably feel a stronger bond with your scummates than you would do as a random VT with people who are very probably town

meanwhile, just take a step back and see what Psyche is doing, like obviously i get it's probably meaningless but you gotta admit he's playing perfectly if his engame is to end up buddies with you, Psyche, while i'm not familiar with his meta, has 10k posts, i assume he knows one or two things about playing scum, while his "i'm just a little guy" behaviour clashes with my expectations, even taking outside the fact that he's a man with a job and stuff

I've explained before and i'll summarize here since i think you're not really understeanding what my point here (this is actually the last part i'm writing i just really felt a strong urge to answer confbias first)

scum wants to kill town is a good assumption yes, and even more than that, scum wants to kill scary town, but, at the TOP of all priorities, scum doesn't want to get caught being scum

so, in the context of dann's wagon, we had the following things : Dann's wagon is being pushed "by itself" cause like, let's be real a lot of townies were in on pushing that, Ketchup / Luca come to mind first, and, as the end approaches Psyche all of a sudden leaves to kind of spend the remainder of his day doing nothing productive? Like sure he's defending Dann but he isn't actually pushing fowards any alternatives, he's trying to have his cake (towncred) and eat it (have Dann die regardless)

When brought to E-1, Dann makes a streak of very towny posts, once again, hindsight is king here, scum!me would've probably realized this was the post than brang dann over the edge and maybe something else could happen today

so, yeah, i could've hammered Dann but so what, hisreadlists was completely out of whack (no scum in the scummy people), his credibility was nuked and the next wagon was very likely deltaWave for her last minute pushing of dann, which yeah admittedly very much looked scummy too

Spoiler: votecount at the time of Psyche leaving

Votecount 1.7

Votecount 1.7

Dannflor (5):

Psyche, OutWorldER, Hu Tao, Black, Jacob24

(E-2)

Doctor Drew (2):

Dannflor, ketchup777

Hu Tao (1):

iamveryhappy

ketchup777 (1):

DeltaWave

Not Voting (4):

Gypyx, Luca Blight, ProjEctRy, Doctor Drew,

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-03 02:13:32)

Mod Notes

None

Do we agree that this looks like, REALLY bad for Psyche, espe since he really didn't do a whole lot with that being out of the wagon, same for outworld + black for what it's worth

meanwhile psyche's trajectory on dann, if i recall correctly, is him at first shading him, and as the push gained traction he actually left it, expressing a townread of Dann instead, i'm saying with confidence that this is posturing 101 and i hope you can understeand that

i could go on but i'm out of energy

the thing is, we're basically in this gamestate where both sides have very strong confbias, i'm saying this also at Hu Tao but like, this is not ending without someone giving up his reads and trusting the other basically

i'm gonna be honest i wish we could just not take my anger outburst into you reasoning, like, idk, i guess it makes sense for you but it doesn't make me feel good that i'm basically fucking up any chance i had by being a shithead, idk, can't force you, just showing you all my reasoning here

just like idk, not saying this makes me town but please don't expect my behaviour to be completely rational, wether i did it as town by basically being unsolvable or as town by completely antagonizing a townie it was a huge throw regardless and i think you're not realizing that

I acknowledge all that you've said but I am still confident that scum wouldn't play like Psyche has done, if they had planned to go into the massclaim with a guilty, I believe they would generally hint that they got something spicy as soon as they pop in so that they have some form of backing to rely on when you get hit with some level of scrutiny regarding the red-check.

I read into the intent of posts, not just the direct content which is hard to fake over a long period of time.

That vote analysis lowkey makes my TR stronger

Spoiler: Door 5

I ACTUALLY GOT THE RIGHT ONE

Holy shit!! Ahahaha, congrats (don't spoil it >:C )

I would never

[ketchup777]

That’s a weird ass solve tho, how did u get there?

I think Gypyx and Psyche are both scum and Hu makes the most sense as a third. Hu has been scummy all game, just popping in to push whatever agenda she needs to. She rallied to get big threats Dannflor and Titus faded D1 and D2 and Gypyx hammered both of them. I think they found an opportunity to win today by fading OWER and now they're going for it. Psyche already has OWER and me in his solve so it feels like he's planning on moving there at some point. They just need to convince two townies to join them and it's gg

the macho doesn't make sense tho. If it's hu tao it has to be hu tao / gypyx / outworld

[ketchup777]

aaaaaah

[ketchup777]

goodluck on jailkeep ):
was it so hard to vote out confscum

[ketchup777]

just remember my logic of who it can and cant be hu tao

[ketchup777]

i feel like luca wasnt going to hammer gypyx

[ketchup777]

jackson ultimate bluffer

[ketchup777]

im sad

nice playing with you all

[ketchup777]

lol

[ketchup777]

))))):

[ketchup777]

Who did the night kill?

OutWorldER

awww I suspected he would as you know (;

unlucky hu Tao

I didn’t see him killing me tho lmao

[ketchup777]

I'm shocked they didn't go to kill you specifically

going for the BM

[ketchup777]

Who did the night kill?

OutWorldER

Darn. I was gonna choose black or ower. I chose the wrong one

We thought you might target me so I was basically completely out of the question. The hit was going to be either Psyche or OWER

I guessed you wouldn’t do it, being the last one to the thread, so guessed between those two for fun

[ketchup777]

))))):

I hope you stick around and play more. I really enjoyed playing with you

2nded

)

[ketchup777]

))))):

I hope you stick around and play more. I really enjoyed playing with you

2nded

)

AAH SCARY EMOJI THATS SUPPOSED TO BE A NICE AND INNICENT SIMLEY FACE JUDGE ME NOT

[ketchup777]

))))):

I hope you stick around and play more. I really enjoyed playing with you

I felt so bad because ketchup PM'ed me immediately after his VT crumb, and was so excited, and I felt awful that I didn't reply but I didn't know how to while remaining impartial

I think I had a misguided sense of crumbing at the start cos it wasn’t even meant to be a VT crumb it was just a crumb to see who was reading my messages and would sneak the word banish into their next message. But no one noticed it anyway (;

[ketchup777]

Sorry for making the wrong call lads, but as I said in my acknowledgement (in the masonry PT) I don't think I would have changed my vote even three elims down the line, I really got played and that's hilarious

psyche played me with his cuteness

[ketchup777]

))))):

I hope you stick around and play more. I really enjoyed playing with you

I felt so bad because ketchup PM'ed me immediately after his VT crumb, and was so excited, and I felt awful that I didn't reply but I didn't know how to while remaining impartial

I think I had a misguided sense of crumbing at the start cos it wasn’t even meant to be a VT crumb it was just a crumb to see who was reading my messages and would sneak the word banish into their next message. But no one noticed it anyway (;

I noticed it and brought it up in the scum PT. We thought about hitting you because of it. It was a very smart play on your part

aww yay!

you would’ve got free townread points at the time from me probably

[ketchup777]

i'm probably not inning ever again

anyways that was serious, gonna do a lot more modding now lol

on the subject of, thanks for modding thomith! I got way too invested but it was a lot of fun (:

[ketchup777]

also all the Alice in borderland talk got me thinking about an Alice in borderland themed mafia, that’d be fun.. need to get some more experience in first tho hehe

[ketchup777]

Ketchup you were fun to play with. You should /in another game

I’ll join one at the beginning of March, am going to Northern Ireland on Friday then a level mocks (:

[ketchup777]

none of the mafia wanted a fast night eh

[ketchup777]

We felt bad during D3 because Gypyx was pretty obviously town and we couldn't really say that

I thought sooooo and then jackson and psyche had me doubtingggg why couldn’t gypyx have gone into a 1v1 with outworlddd

[ketchup777]

I look forward to reading hehe

[ketchup777]

When Gypyx PMed me the solve Night 2 and clocked Hu Tao as a Town PR I honestly thought the game was over.

alas, emotion took over reasoning

[ketchup777]

anyway what was that delta kill LMAO

[ketchup777]

When Gypyx PMed me the solve Night 2 and clocked Hu Tao as a Town PR I honestly thought the game was over.

Yeah she's scary good

problem is, there's really no point being right when people don't give 2 shits about your reads

When hu Tao supported you it backfired because I thought you might both be maf

[ketchup777]

guess I can’t argue with success

[ketchup777]

I liked the setup (;

[ketchup777]

am i allowed to say id rather the pt stay private? i was a little embarrassing in there

ahh my curiosity will kill me

[ketchup777]

I liked the setup (;

*hands you a folder with "COMPLEX" written in bold red letters"

but what if i told you... there was

another

way?

hehehe

[ketchup777]

yeah fake-claiming a guilty here was probably the way to go

it might've been better if I had simply faked a guilty on ketchup instead but also maybe not considering a lot of people already scumread gypyx

if you faked a guilty on me it would have saved me a lot of time on the solves!

[ketchup777]

Spectator PT
Mod PT

Mafia and Mason PT's will be released in (expired on 2024-02-15 18:12:11). Please request any redactions in this time frame.

thomithhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[ketchup777]

It was a fun read, thanks for not redacting anything (:

[ketchup777]

OHHHH THATS WHY YOU CRUMBED IN THE 24th POST I GET IT NOWWWWW

[ketchup777]

good luck to anyone mason with me crumbing in their 777th post

[ketchup777]

(has posted 800 times on her own) I dunno... seems doable to me

I'm nearly there (:
I can end this on 777 posts!

[ketchup777]

Ketchup is very clearly going to be claiming PR

I was going to claim bulletproof and then I backed out of it because I didn't want to ruin setup speculation/ be seen as selfish for dodging the night kill. How do you think that would have played out?

[ketchup777]

i belive in you

like idk, tell us when you think you'll play your next game, you can figure out 5 posts champ

aha! a free post
I've entered Alianna's mini not-normal theme game in signups atm
would love you to be there but prioritise your mental healthhh

[ketchup777]

ower copped you so it might have saved me some trouble

Ohh yeah I'd forgotten that had happened already - I think I decided then that may as well get to be near-confirmed VT and have people have faith in my reads.

ha

[ketchup777]

can't believe jackson was town after choosing love in the hangman tho smh

iso 777, goodbye thread

[ketchup777]

can't believe jackson was town after choosing love in the hangman tho smh

iso 777, goodbye thread

Can't believe you thought that meant anything
Also that was ur iso 776 smh

oh yeah there's the offset because it starts on post 0

actual iso 777

I thought it could mean somethingggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
We should've done a Freudian word association game where I give you 20 words and you say the first word in your mind for each and if you don't respond in a minute it wasn't valid, allowing me to delve deep into the current state of your mind

next time...