Mini 738: The Town of Merrin - Game Over

[springlullaby]

/confirming

[springlullaby]

Vote subgenius

because.

[springlullaby]

We have 9/12 voting so far. Not voting: GIEFF, springlullaby, dejkha

Of those three, one has posted (twice) and didn't vote. Conveniently enough, that person also has two votes on him and so could be the Day One Bandwagon-ee. And, OMGUS because he called me obvscum before I had even posted anything more than a "/confirm" in the thread.

unvote: Panzerjager

vote: GIEFF

Sounds like you're overreacting way to much to what seemed like an obvious joke (calling you and two others obvscum is his confirm post).

Hmmm... so springlullaby suddenly appears on the scene after I note she hasn't posted, and then casts a meaningless vote (or at least it looks meaningless due to lack of explanation) after I criticize GIEFF for not voting while posting, despite there actually being a debate of sorts going on. Odd, somewhat suspicious, and definitely not helpful.

FoS: springlullaby

This also looks like you're overreacting. What it looked like to me, was Springlullaby casted a random vote and that's all. This is my first time posting since I confirmed and if I joke voted, would you be on my case because it was after you said I haven't voted? This is the first chance I had to post in the game since day one started. Ever think the same for her?

FoS: Dourgrim

because this early you seem awfully eager to write people off as possible scum for things with obvious explanations.

Vote djekha

The quote post above is a variation OMGUS: suspect someone by seemingly defending someone else for an action one has/is going to commit, the effect of which is to justify one's action.

This is further scummy because, if it is my prerogative to play as I wish, I certainly don't see anything remotely recommendable in my random vote. It is also scummy because accusing someone of being 'too eager' in the random stage is piss poor play and just plain scummy.

I have read the last pages or so. My comment on them is that I don't particularly like the dynamic of this town, there is plenty of talk and speculation but not enough true aggressiveness IMO. Note here that the SK talk may be interesting in the future but not now. Right now I would like to suggest more focused fire, starting now with a djekha wagon for example.

[springlullaby]

Unvote, vote djekha

[springlullaby]

It is not always indicative of scum, but you must assume that town will always play in the interest of town to base scumhunting on, and in absence of attenuating circumstances, bad play is always scummy.

[springlullaby]

It is not always indicative of scum, but you must assume that town will always play in the interest of town to base scumhunting on, and in absence of attenuating circumstances, bad play is always scummy.

A mislynch is not in the interest of the town, but that doesn't mean everyone on that lynch is scum for making a bad play.

Townies won't always play in the best interest of town. Townies will play in what they perceive to be the best interest of the town. There's a huge difference.

This is an interesting argument, I'm not sure if it is scummy or not, because here you seems to be saying that a mislynch is always bad play, which is not true. Sometimes someone is scummy despite being town, and there is little reproach one can make on people being on the lynch. It is the quality of the argument put forth to explain a vote that is important.

Agree/disagree?

[springlullaby]

Agree to some extent. A mislynch is unhelpful to the town, but isn't necessarily bad play on the parts of the people involved. Ironically, I think you just proved my point.

A better example is this: Someone claims cop in their first post of the game. That is bad play. They've set themselves up to be night killed. However, it's not scummy, because scum claiming cop in their first post is a pretty stupid play. This person exhibits bad play, but that bad play is more of a townie bad play than a scummy one.

In other words, I disagree entirely about your assessment of dejkha. You're saying he's scummy because he's attacking early aggressive play (which is pro-town). I agree with you that doing so is wrong, but I don't see how it's scummy.

But you see, the thing here is that I did not attack djekha solely on the ground of his play being poor.

[springlullaby]

Agree/disagree?

Oooh, I disagree. Your statement that someone can be scummy even if he's protown is bizarre. I thought "scum" meant "anti-Town", so how can someone be scum and be pro-Town at the same time.

Also, you seem to be arguing that only logic carefully explained in the thread is a good reason to vote for someone. Am I really the only one who doesn't always expect perfect play and sometimes votes from the gut here? If so, that makes me kinda sad for the game.[/quote]

I disagree with you, anti-town is a descriptive which can qualify a behavior on top of being a descriptive for a role. Scum is solely a role description.

Likewise for 'pro-town', and the point of scumplay is to appear pro-town despite one's role.

As for logic, I'm not proselyte zealot of all things logical and play very much by guts myself, but even so, the quality of a vote should speak for itself. The thing with 'gut play' is that people with good intuitions are often of the same mind.

[springlullaby]

I messed up the tag editing, the above is in reply to dourgrim's 107.

[springlullaby]

The quote post above is a variation OMGUS: suspect someone by seemingly defending someone else for an action one has/is going to commit, the effect of which is to justify one's action.

This is further scummy because, if it is my prerogative to play as I wish, I certainly don't see anything remotely recommendable in my random vote. It is also scummy because accusing someone of being 'too eager' in the random stage is piss poor play and just plain scummy.

It may be your prerogative to play as you wish, but it is NOT your prerogative to tell other players they can't attack people for voting you for what seems to be bad logic.

I don't think accusing someone of being "too eager" is piss-poor at all, nor do I think it's scummy. If somebody tries to pin a case on somebody based on no substance at all (as I believe Panzer did to myko), then that really is being "too eager" and that poster should be called on it. Why do you think it's piss-poor play/scummy?

1. I'm not telling anyone how I think they should play, I am pointing out something that I think is scummy, and this is indeed my prerogative.

2. Put general considerations aside and examine the time at which djekha made that accusation at Dourgrim. Do you think Dourgrim's actions at the time qualify as 'too eager'? Do you think it was a justified attack on djekha's part?

I believe it was not.

[springlullaby]

What can I say, I think it's a little extreme to accuse someone right off the bat because of a joke in their confirm post and a joke vote as their first post. I think I've explained to Dour why I was suspicious of his reaction to both of those and no OMGUS was involved. As I said, it's my way of thinking and I think how he reacted to those was a bit much. I personally don't think it's scummy at all to think someones too eager when they go after someones confirm post. Not much other way I can say it.

And yet the conversation must start somewhere to end the random stage, and the throwing around of accusations is generally where it start. Town and scum alike want to start the conversation going, as such early accusation throwing is pretty much a null-tell in my view. Especially considering that I do not think Dourgrim's criticism of my play was extreme at this point of the game.

You say that there was no OMGUS involved in your criticism of Dourgrim, but what was your post in aid of then? It wasn't followed with a vote, nor was it accompanied by otherwise relevant POV on this game.

The way I see it, the only effect of your post was to pre-emptively defend yourself from any criticism that may have come your way for not posting early in the game.

[springlullaby]

I would like to first thank everyone in this game for giving me a crash course in Mafia game theory. I've been away from this game for a couple of years now, and this game is reminding me of many of the things I once knew about being a good player, and a few things I've apparently never learned. No sarcasm here, this is a good first game back for me to be in. Thanks.

Also, I would like to thank Panzer for using the term "Dourgrim-esque" in a sentence... I'm not sure if I should be flattered or worried.

Leaving my vote where it is for now, I'll come back to the game tomorrow at work and see what I see.

This looks remarkably like the 'the newbie card', or more in this instance an 'oldie card'. It amuses me but I can't say that I approve.

[springlullaby]

Town and scum alike want to start the conversation going, as such early accusation throwing is pretty much a null-tell in my view.

Really? Scum want to get the conversation going? Why is that?

This looks remarkably like the 'the newbie card', or more in this instance an 'oldie card'. It amuses me but I can't say that I approve.

What bothers you about it?

1. So they can lynch someone. So they can appears to be scumhunting. Don't you share this view?

2. The slightly apologetic nature of it and the fact that it says about nothing game relevant.

[springlullaby]

I don't know if they are townies or not but its seems delibrate that she's going after Dejka and not Ting =).

This doesn't make sense. Why is my not going after Ting scummy? What is the point of comparison between djekha and Ting that you are basing this on?

[springlullaby]

doesn't anybody here have the feeling that this is one big overreaction? This is going way too fast. I don't like fast wagons, esspecially not when they are early. Are you really in favor of a panzerlynch page 7? didn't think so...

Mykonian, I know for a fact that you do this kind of helpful townie act when you are scum.

Do you have anything else to say? Your thoughts on Panzer aside from the speed of the wagon please?

[springlullaby]

The quote post above is a variation OMGUS: suspect someone by seemingly defending someone else for an action one has/is going to commit, the effect of which is to justify one's action.

This is further scummy because, if it is my prerogative to play as I wish, I certainly don't see anything remotely recommendable in my random vote. It is also scummy because accusing someone of being 'too eager' in the random stage is piss poor play and just plain scummy.

I have read the last pages or so. My comment on them is that I don't particularly like the dynamic of this town, there is plenty of talk and speculation but not enough true aggressiveness IMO. Note here that the SK talk may be interesting in the future but not now. Right now I would like to suggest more focused fire, starting now with a djekha wagon for example.

This is where you jump on Dejkha for calling someone too eager.

unvote. Vote:Panzerjager

For making a big thing out of a small thing.

This is where Ting votes me for being too eager and overeacting.

There is no post where you jump on ting. Hence the question, Why did you jump on Dejkha and not Ting.

Because of the OMGUS I think is present in djekha's post. Did you miss that?

@Goat: I think Panzer is being scummy, I especially didn't like the post in which he said that he is usually aggressive then apologized for his play in the same breath. It is somewhat a contradiction in term. Most genuinely aggressive players are unapologetic about their play, and sustain heat pretty well too. But I'm in no hurry to see a lynch, and the Panzer wagon don't need my help now, so I'm content with letting things runs and see.

[springlullaby]

I never classed djekah as 'too eager', because I don't think it's a valid scumtell in the RSV stage in the first place.

What is odd in my not bringing ting? I didn't see OMGUS in his post.

The point in my djekha suspicions is that his 'too eager' accusation came at a moment when someone has critized someone else for an action that he was going to commit.

[springlullaby]

The use of future tense is confusing, I was refering to the mechanism of the OMGUS rather than the act in itself.

Cf the post I vote him where I explain it better:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 70#1474970

[springlullaby]

It is also scummy because accusing someone of being 'too eager' in the random stage is piss poor play and just plain scummy.

Don't you think ting's vote could also be classified as calling Panzer "too eager" in the random vote stage?

Yes I do. You classify as well for your vote on Dourgrim.

But as I already said, it wasn't the sole motive of my vote. I have answered thusly 2 times already. Are you deliberately missing the point?

[springlullaby]

The use of future tense is confusing, I was refering to the mechanism of the OMGUS rather than the act in itself.

Cf the post I vote him where I explain it better:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 70#1474970

This was in response to Goat's 202.

[springlullaby]

Wait, SL, so You feel I'm scummy but refuse to put a vote on me? That is pretty damn scummy. Sitting the fence is terrible

I'm keeping my vote on SL

@GIEFF: Yes, I was unwilling to play. I'm currently in over my head on games right now, I have 4 games goign because I overjoined and I'm trying really hard to care in all of them. Once I get in over my head on these things it starts to feel like school and not fun.

@SL: I'm aggressive not an asshole and I think I've stood up to heat rather well., and mostly my play as been shitty due to lack of motivation.

How is thinking someone being scummy but refusing to vote them scummy?

And I'm not in any way sitting the fence. As I explained, I do think you are scummy but that doesn't mean I'm convinced you are scum. And as I have also explained, I think the wagon on you is sufficient as it is so I'm in no hurry to put you closer to a lynch.

[springlullaby]

Ebwop: hit submit instead of review.

I don't think I totally buy your answer as to your aggressiveness. As I said most genuinely aggressive town are unapologetic and generally don't bother apologizing for their behaviours as they genuinely think it is helpful. It also has something to do with ego. So no, I don't really like your answer.

As to sustaining heat, aggressive players are generally not shy of letting things escalate, instead of trying to appease people or offer excuses like you seem to be doing.

[springlullaby]

SL's argument against Dekhja, as I understand it, is that he voted for Dourgrim out of a sort of vicarious OMGUS.

1. Dourgrim votes for SL based on her casting a random vote early in the game despite actual discussion taking place and after her absence had been noted.

2. Dejkha FoS's Dourgrim and mentions that he too has been guilty of light posting, and could be one of Dourgrim's targets based on the criteria the he used to vote SL.

3. SL argues that Dejkha's FoS of Dourgrim is OMGUS because he is responding to Dourgrims vote against SL, which was based on criteria that could equally be applied to either SL or Dejkha. It's sort of an OMGUS once removed.

At least I think this is what SL is saying, she can confirm or deny.

This is an acceptable summary, only Dourgrim didn't vote me, but Fos'ed me at the time.

Plus, I think djekha's action wasn't justified in the first place, because I do think not trying to help the discussion along early on is minorly scummy, and didn't warrant a defense. Why not simply let me answer to it?

[springlullaby]

This is interesting. I'm going to reset my counter for the replacement.

Unvote

[springlullaby]

I'll answer that after I see more from Zilla.

[springlullaby]

Posting to say that I'm behind and need a couple of day to catch.

[springlullaby]

Busy atm. Promise to do better by weekend.

[springlullaby]

Gonna play catch up.

[springlullaby]

Sorry, haven't had the time for this game yet.

[springlullaby]

Ok, I have fallen way behind. Promise to post during week-end.

[springlullaby]

Ok, I'm up to page 20. However my keyboard is broken so do not expect anything big before at least 3 days.

[springlullaby]

Goat, a question. Why are you against policy lynching me in this game?

Not that I would want to be policy lynched, but in the other game we share, you gave me a fair amount of flake because of 'lurking' and stated that you'd see me hanged for it, but not here. What gives?

[springlullaby]

I addressed that in this post. I think Zilla is scum. If she is scum, I think that makes you more likely to be town based on your early Dejkha pressure. Besides, I would never advocate a policy lynch over someone I strongly feel to be scum.

Also, I laughed at your freudian slip bolded above.

Yes, I've read that and I don't think it makes sense, see contradiction indicated in bold and italics:

I don't want to policy lynch SL, or have her replaced. I think she's more likely to be town if Zilla is scum

(early pressure on Dejkha would

have to be busing in that case),

which I think is likely

. I just want her to catch up and start playing the game.

But no matter for now, I don't think you are scum atm but I also very much doubt Zilla is scum.

-----------------------

On Zilla, the bravado with which she made her entry and the fact that she has been actively pissing people off doesn't read like scum to me. Also I don't see her doing the flipflop she had going on Goat if she were scum, I think town uncertainty is more likely.

If anything Goat is the one I'd see as scum in that pair, if there is scum to be found there, because of a series of factor I'm too lazy to type now. BUT comparatively to players other than Zilla, I would still put him in low danger for now.

------------------------

Vote Beyond_Birthday

Dislike earlier analysis of the game with capslock and shit (exaggerated emotional inflexion). I don't like the quoting of huge walls to basically say 'I agree'. I don't like the 'note to self' which promptly disappeared after they've been ridiculed.

I don't like the fact that he's been voting Zilla because she's been

defending

him.

The last is a particularly damning tell in my book - this is day 1, I haven't seen many town who would vote for people on the ground that they've been defending them. And I don't like his push for a claim on Zilla.

[springlullaby]

Ok, the huge ass posts have to stop. There is only so much that can be said in a game of mafia, beyond which threshold it is obstinacy one way or another, and said obstinacy doesn't help any because it is impossible to read.

BB: yes I've caught up.

Zilla: a ppa after you have voted mykonian smacks of after the fact justification

Goat: basing your read of an entire game around one hypothesis is crappy and freaking lazy, i don't even understand how you can deduce the alignment of so many people just based on one person.

mykonian is not on my immediate scumlist, he doesn't look like someone who want to look like town.

[springlullaby]

You're accusing me of being lazy? Funny.

My stances aren't lazy. I've caught scum. I've worked for 10+ pages trying to get this scum lynched. There's nothing lazy about that.

Just because you wrote 10k words - with an incredibly high amount repetition - doesn't mean you aren't lazy in your scumhunting. From your last overview, all independent analysis of players had mostly town verdict. And all scum verdicts were associated to Zilla's alignment, and in a very vague fashion nonetheless. That just sucks: scumlinking is the most despicable form of scumhunting day 1, using them as more than possible indication is at best sloppy, at worst scummy.

What is crappy about me basing my read of an entire game around my ideas of who is scum and town? I think Zilla is overwhelming scum. That has influenced my read of the game. And? Do I somehow need to come up with a couple more hypotheses because the one I am convinced of apparently isn't enough?

You don't 'need' to do anything.

As for deducing the alignment of others, I'm working 1 step ahead. That's something to keep in mind for tomorrow. Nobody in the thread comes close to the same level of scumminess as Zilla. At this point, I'm working on two things. First of all, I'm trying to convince others to lynch Zilla. Second of all, I'm trying to determine who is scum/town assuming Zilla is scum. In the unlikely scenario that Zilla is town, I will have to scrap all that. For now, that is my take.

Yes, and that's one step too early which means that your one step means exactly nothing.

-------------------

Goat: I have read your case against Zilla, I think it sucks. The margin of errors in the possible meaning she could have intended with words like "hardly" and "outstanding" are such that your accusation of her lying reposes on very shaky grounds.

-------------------

Anyway, you won't see me anywhere near a Goat or Zilla wagon today, the risk of them being both town is such that it is not a chance I'm willing to take atm.

I've just seen something scummy from Panzer, brb.

[springlullaby]

I'm pissed that people left Zilla of the hook. She's obviously the most scummy player in the game. I'm keeping my vote here.

Also, I'm not reading all these big post.

There is NO need for huge posts like this.

That's definite scumtell right there.

This is scum betting on natural townie resentment toward tedious long posts to get away with not paying attention.

Unvote Vote Panzer

[springlullaby]

Meh, I thought farside had replaced in. False joy.

I'm currently up to lynch BB, Panzer, for previously cited reasons.

Plus qwint, militant and subgenius for lurking.

No order of preference.

@Goat, something's puzzling me. You seem awfully nice to me this game. Saying stuff like "you know this", "spring can testify to it" when it comes to your playstyle, plus the whole not wanting to lynch me for lurking. This is in stark contrast compared to the other game we share, and I think it looks awfully like you buddying up or, more nefariously, trying to manipulate me over your meta. I'll say this here, you do seem consistent with the town meta I have seen from you (1 game), but I don't like the fact that you are bringing it up constantly in the conversation.

Now, your 'working toward a lynch' is all well and good, but who exactly are you willing to lynch beside Zilla, and why?

[springlullaby]

springlullaby, do you feel that expressing annoyance at the length of posts is enough to lynch Panzer? If not, what else do you find suspicious?

He did not express annoyance at the length of post, he said that he wouldn't read them and justified it by saying that he shouldn't be expected to.

I would lynch him on that alone.

My old remarks against him are still valid, but I don't much care.


[/quote]

[springlullaby]

This again? I highly doubt you have no order of preference. Everyone has someone they would prefer to see gone (whether it's scum with a townie they want out, or town with the person they think most likely to be scum). I want to see an order of preference. Why does militant's lurking make him an equally good lynch as BB? Among all 3 lurkers, they all have defining characteristics of their play. Are you truly unable to distinguish between them? I doubt it.

I have no order of preference and would lynch any of them at the drop of a hat. Panzer is where my vote now, it's my surest call, which doesn't mean my BB call isn't confident.

As for lurkers, ting and mykonian qualify also in my book, but their pattern isn't as scummy and I think they read more town.

You are one of the people I think most likely to be town right now. I'm not trying to buddy up in order to garner your support, I simply think you are town. I don't want to lynch someone I think is town, regardless of whether or not they are lurking. I respect your play enough to want to have you come back to the game rather than replace out and us get a variable factor. The reason I've brought up my meta is Zilla kept attacking me for aspects of my play that she said makes me likely to be scum, but are actually just things I do every game. My style of defending myself, for example. The reason I noted you, is because you played in a recent game with me, and you attacked me for the exact same thing Zilla did, and can testify that it is something I do as town.

It wasn't an attempt to buddy, it was me defending myself.

Not afraid of laying it on thick are you. What is it that make you think I'm so town?

[springlullaby]

springlullaby, do you feel that expressing annoyance at the length of posts is enough to lynch Panzer? If not, what else do you find suspicious?

He did not express annoyance at the length of post, he said that he wouldn't read them and justified it by saying that he shouldn't be expected to.

I would lynch him on that alone.

My old remarks against him are still valid, but I don't much care.

But he had already said he wasn't reading posts. 4 times.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 90#1505290
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 57#1505957
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 62#1507962
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 43#1508343

And others have already called him scummy for it.


Why did you only focus on this latest time he said he wasn't reading posts, and ignore the first four times he did it?

It didn't catch my attention till then.

[springlullaby]

If you want to lynch me the burden of proof is on you.

Why do you object to being called a lurker? You are. Did you actually read my post though?

[springlullaby]

Did I miss something? and yes, I object to be called a lurker. I just don't want to be one, and I really try to participate in games (altough a few weeks ago I had some motivation problems), just to avoid getting called a lurker.

And then you, the person that has absolutely no right to accuse people of lurking, come here and tell me I lurk. Could you point out why? Because I absolutely don't like that label.

Actually you are right, upon verification, although I think you are at the lower participation side of town, it's not very just to call you a lurker. But don't think for an instant that I have 'no right' to accuse people of lurking.

My list is already up.

[springlullaby]

I'm behind again.

[springlullaby]

Weekend V/LA notice

[springlullaby]

Unvote

Not cop, not totally up to speed as of now but will probably be waiting for BB.
Happy to observe Sens right now.

[springlullaby]

Vote: BB

For previously cited reason + I do not like the dragging with the refusal to claim.

[springlullaby]

I'm also open to lynch any of the lurker previously cited.

[springlullaby]

Vote: springlullaby

That's pointless. Justification behind vote.

---------------

Panzer, I want more flavour. Like a truckload more.

[springlullaby]

Confirm vote: springlullaby

Ok, if that's supposed to be a cop crumb you claim now.

I go to the lynch and you can go next.

If you don't know my alignment, you start explaining your behaviour right now.

[springlullaby]

I want to see GIEFF's response here... this seems very telling to me.

Very telling of what? Mind not making half complete statement, open ended statement?
Your post is pointless too. Or are you just hoping to watch which way the wind blows?

[springlullaby]

I'm guessing doc save + vig no kill.

Waiting on panzer's result.

[springlullaby]

Gieff, your case sucks. I could eat holes in it, but I won't because I'm on minimum effort this game. Look elsewhere.

[springlullaby]

Gieff, unvote me.

Beyond, justify your vote.

[springlullaby]

You'll have to do better than that because the burden of proof is on you.

[springlullaby]

Wow, is it just me or has this game turned decidedly unfriendly?

You will have to explain precisely what you mean by this.

spring: why should GIEFF unvote you?

Is your name GIEFF to ask me that question? Why/what are you asking me in the first place? Does this question mean you think he *should* be voting voting me?

Why is the burden of proof on B_B?

Is that question serious? Of course the burden of proof is on BB, he is voting me, it's his responsibility to justify his vote.

Why are you at "min. effort" in this game?

Because I feel like it.

[springlullaby]

Can you tell us why you unvoted dejkha? And why you have done so little scumhunting?

I've answered the first question once already.

The second is either loaded or fishing. So, which is it?

[springlullaby]

Why is the burden of proof on B_B?

Is that question serious? Of course the burden of proof is on BB, he is voting me, it's his responsibility to justify his vote.

Why are you at "min. effort" in this game?

Because I feel like it.

'Nuff said.

Unvote, Vote: SL

What is that even supposed to mean?

[springlullaby]

You are dumb to vote without explanation.

Anyway, I'm at L-2. If you don't want me to claim, you unvote me.

[springlullaby]

You are dumb to vote without explanation.

I guess I was also dumb to hammer Zilla without expla-oh wait...

Anyway, I'm at L-2. If you don't want me to claim, you unvote me.

Unvote SL.

Vote: SL

1. You are saying now that your hammer wasn't accidental but you may as well be one dumb scum who though he was putting a middle wagon bussing vote.

2. And yes, that is exactly why any unjustified vote is dumb.

3. Please don't feel too special, my 'you' was a you at large.

You are still not justifying why 'that snippet' would make me scum.

Please answer it again. I don't see where you answered it. Why did Zilla replacing dejkha warrant an unvote?

Why did you say it was scummy when B_B refused to claim, but did not mention Zilla's refusal to do so?

On Zilla, the bravado with which she made her entry and the fact that she has been actively pissing people off doesn't read like scum to me. Also I don't see her doing the flipflop she had going on Goat if she were scum, I think town uncertainty is more likely.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 46#1510946

On the Beyond claim thing, I forgot why I said that. I think it's me getting confused when I reiterated my reasons to vote BB. There was something to do with claim that I didn't like in Beyond.

[springlullaby]

I asked why you unvoted dejkha, and the reason you gave was based on behavior Zilla did after this unvote.

At the time you unvoted dejkha, why did you do it? And why didn't you answer when Goat asked you the same question back then?

What are you talking about. I unvoted djekha when Zilla replaced in. I did so because I thought her entrance and the way she pissed people off was town. I told Goat that I would answer him later because I didn't want to 1)influence his comportment at a time he was making a case against her 2)answer on Zilla's behalf.

Is it dumb to vote for someone that admittantly doesn't want to play?

If you admittantly aren't interested enough to hunt scum, doesn't that mean that you don't need to hunt for them?

Where exactly did I say that I didn't want to play?

Where did I say that I didn't want to hunt scum?

[springlullaby]

So you don't believe I was justified in not responding to GIEFF? Then you'll have to make very clear every point in his case with which you agree.

[springlullaby]

Ok, you guy are dumb hardcore.

Claim, vig. Targetted ting N1, no kill N2. Start of breadcrumd D1 before my losing interest in the game: find 'fant' crumbed in mispelling of my nick in quote. 'fant' is the start of 'fantomette' which means vig because of this thread: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 48#1303948

I may go back and dig the crumbing up if I feel you lot deserve it.

Vote Xtoxm

If Xtoxm is not lynched off today, I'm vigging him.
1. For that dumb lame vote on me.
2. For refusing to read the game.

[springlullaby]

Unvote, vote xtoxm

[springlullaby]

Gieff, your case sucks. I could eat holes in it, but I won't because I'm on minimum effort this game. Look elsewhere.

minimal effort means: no reaction on cases on you and barely reading the thread. Then it is impossible to hunt scum.

What gives you the licence to interpret me?

[springlullaby]

since when are you ever justified in not responding, while your reason clearly is that the game is not interesting enough?

Since when I call bullshit. If you want me to justify myself, you will have to go and highligh everyone point in GIEFF case you agree with, and be prepared to look scummy when I destroy them.

[springlullaby]

So, you want me to agree with a specific point with Gieff so you can ignore that too? No.

No. You'll have to justify you vote on me because you will have to work freaking hard if you hope to lynch me since I'm calling bull on GIEFF case. And I'm not letting you or anyone get away with 'i agree' without making every crappy point they agree with clear.

[springlullaby]

Unvote

Pending cc on xtoxm if any.

Massclaim now.

Xtoxm, wanna unvote me.

[springlullaby]

Vote on SL stays.

If she;s not lynched today, I want her to shoot herself tonight.

Oh, and why pray tell?

[springlullaby]

Mili no actioned N1

Huh, what kind of doc non action on any given day? Confirm with mod if non action or missed deadline.

[springlullaby]

Everyone unvote.

Wait for:

1. Dour's claim.
2. Gieff's claim.
3. Panzer to say something.

[springlullaby]

Btw, Xtoxm, I don't get it, why did you push me to claim just to unvote me afterward if you picked on my crumbs.

[springlullaby]

dour needs to check in

and i want a claim from gieff

[springlullaby]

Let's write that again.

Dour needs to check in.

Also I want a claim from Gieff.

[springlullaby]

I don't agree with claims right now.

Why?

The doc is already out.

Gieff needs to confirm Beyond.

And dour is one big hole in the map.

[springlullaby]

Because he was a 50/50 lurkerscum. Public service kill.

[springlullaby]

Myk is fifty fifty in my book, on one hand there is the bit where Zilla asks if there is still time to run up myk before the imminence of qwint lynch. On the other I don't think deputy is a good claim at all because I don't see how framer and roleblocker makes deputy more likely.

[springlullaby]

Alright, which part of the flavor exactly do you think is indicative of SK?

Plus, what exactly make you think I'm more SK than vig?

Then why the the stretch you need to go to justify your vote on me: 'SK who come up as innocent on no kill night'. Hah. You will have to provide link to the game you are talking about because I'm calling bullshit.


Also, why are you attacking Xtoxm, the claimed doc?


--------------------------------

Anyway, hypothetical setup according to claim


Town

Panzerjager - cop pretty ok claim on account of flipped framer, him not being cop would require huge machination.

Xtoxm - doc, ok claim, the only possibility of him being scum would have to be mafia no killing for fakeclaiming purpose --> presupose knowledge of no doc or huge gambit doesn't fit flip of roleblocker

Beyond_Birthday - tracker - pretty ok claim due to framer, good to possibly save the cop if false positive + qwint + zilla going against him hardcore day 1, doubt it's bussing. The downside to this is his clearing Gieff for no action N1.

mykonian - deputy : I'm less hot about this one. because a deputy seems unnecessary. But still the Zilla comment has to count for something.

springlullaby - vig --> I'm town, just hard to digest.

Dourgrim - vanilla ---> this one is my scum of the moment.
1) His suggestion of lynching me is pretty sucky because I can prove myself back foth sideways and back again + I don't see what exactly make me SK in the first place

2) Typical maf suggestion of lynching vig on vague SK suspicions

3) Voting me despite of all good argument is also scummy because according to previously drawn plan, he get vigged

4) Lack of analysing the town in it's ensemble before casting a vote.

GIEFF - vanilla : I don't like the cinema about 'claiming last', I don't like the crappy 'gambit', I don't like the suspicion all over the place since day 1, and I don't like the useless vote counting script but I do think he is town

SensFan - vanilla - less scum than dour in my book because of the wifom zilla hammer, but such is the nature of wifom and the suspicion about GF ness is not unfounded.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0
The only game I played with framer had a GF. It balances out the game in case the framer get caught early.

ting - vanilla
goat - vanilla

Mafia
Zilla - roleblocker
qwint - framer

-------------
Right now I'm thinking

Lynch sens/dour
vig sens/dour
panzer investigate myk or whomever

----------------------------

tomorrow Xtoxm should be dead, and even if you lynch me, and neither sens/dour are scum , there would have to be two scum in that list for town to lost D5:

Beyond
GIEFF
mykonian
Panzerjager

And that would have to suck ass hardcore.

-------------------------------------------

Just to make bloody sure, Beyond, elaborate on the flavor that make you say sens is 10% scum.

[springlullaby]

SK is always innocent to cops, that's why SL can't be allowed to survive to endgame.

At the moment, we can afford it. Mislynch + 2 town NKs, 6 alive, 1 SK 1 Mafia.

SL must be lynched tomorrow

no matter what

if the game hasn't ended by then.

Gieff - Zilla blocked Panz the night you were tracked. So if you are scum you killed Goat. Which you didn't.

You'll have to apologize for your paranoia aftergame because I'm pretty the reason you are not trusting me now is because of how awesomely I owned your guys asses as SK in Ythill's game.

[springlullaby]

So what, vote sens or dour?

[springlullaby]

Alright

Vote sensfan

[springlullaby]

I'm really not seeing the case to have me lynched/vig'd.

*I hammered the ScumRB point-blank
*I was tracked and found to do nothing, when the (presumably) only other Scum was a RB

I'm not seeing why Xtoxm is arguing for my getting lynched tomorrow if the game doesn't end either.

So what?

If you see hole in the propose logic, point them out instead whining.

[springlullaby]

If you see hole in the propose logic, point them out instead whining.

You, Xtoxm, Panzer are no more confirmed than I am, unless I missed something.

Well yes, it seems to me that you are missing a lot, but I'll humor you.

Make your hypothetical town composition and explain it.

[springlullaby]

If you see hole in the propose logic, point them out instead whining.

You, Xtoxm, Panzer are no more confirmed than I am, unless I missed something.

Well yes, it seems to me that you are missing a lot, but I'll humor you.

Make your hypothetical town composition and explain it.

I'm not here to say that I think Town is X, Y, Z, etc...
I'm here to say I'm not Scum. And I'm thinking increasingly that you are.

If you are cleared by a Tracker result, let me know.
If Panzer is cleared by a Tracker result, let me know.
If Xtoxm is cleared by a Tacker result, let me know.

In the meantime, none of you are confirmed.

oh, only 'increasingly' that I'm scum. Why are you voting me then?

[springlullaby]

Lol ok, good shot. So, why exactly?

[springlullaby]

For fuck sake, I drew it out already in 1556.

There is no possibility of 100% proof plan because of the frigging numbers. The more people talk about it the more it reveal to scum, the more room for wifom.

And GIEFF, is there a reason you want Xtoxm and mykonian to be checked, but not BB?

[springlullaby]

What about the 10% scum on Sensfan then? So you think Sensfan is vanilla?

Anyway,

I'd like sensfan lynched

and dour vigged.

Do it now already.

[springlullaby]

It makes sense to lynch the person more likely to be scum, so we have that information during the night-phase, right? Doesn't B_B's report mean Dourgrim is more likely scum than Sensfan?

No, BB said something about flavor on Sensfan.

[springlullaby]

It makes sense to lynch the person more likely to be scum, so we have that information during the night-phase, right? Doesn't B_B's report mean Dourgrim is more likely scum than Sensfan?

This.

Panzer had a point about there not being high odds of an Investiation-Immune GF. There could

very well

be a Kill-Immune Gf, especially if the Town really has a Vig.

Yes and that is exactly why I want you lynched over dour.

Because in GIEFF's plan, I get lynched if I fail to kill sensfan, which smells like a rat, because I have no control over night immunity.

Plus dour vote me when he could have voted sensfan, meaning he probably isn't NK immune.

[springlullaby]

For fuck's sake, SL, do you actually have a case against me that isn't either OMGUS or 'You didn't claim Power'?

Plus dour vote me when he could have voted sensfan, meaning he probably isn't NK immune.

My vote is on you, too, dumbass.

1. You don't get to talk to me like that.

2. Dour voted me after the plan about lynching you and vigging him was proposed.

3. I don't get why you are resisting the lynch at all since if you were town it would make no difference to you as I'm vigging you anyway.

[springlullaby]

3. I don't get why you are resisting the lynch at all since if you were town it would make no difference to you as I'm vigging you anyway.

1. When you reference this game and insult me in another one, yes I do.
2. Exactly my fucking point. That makes him much more likely to be Scum.
3. I can be vigged. I don't know if Dour can be vigged, but I know he can be lynched.[/quote]

1. That was because I was scum and trying to manipulate you over your meta on the off chance you were town so it doesn't count.

2. No, my point was that his voting me after the plan about lynching you then vigging him was discussed makes him less likely to be NK immune if he is scum.

3. So you want to lynch dour now?

[springlullaby]

Ebwop fixed tags.

1. When you reference this game and insult me in another one, yes I do.
2. Exactly my fucking point. That makes him much more likely to be Scum.
3. I can be vigged. I don't know if Dour can be vigged, but I know he can be lynched.

1. That was because I was scum and trying to manipulate you over your meta on the off chance you were town so it doesn't count.

2. No, my point was that his voting me after the plan about lynching you then vigging him was discussed makes him less likely to be NK immune if he is scum.

3. So you want to lynch dour now?

[springlullaby]

I think we should let SL choose who to vig, as it is her neck on the line if her kill doesn't go through. If she is the SK, this aligns her interests with the town's.

No.

I do not want SL being able to get away with killing ANYONE but me. Otherwise, she will 'decide' that someone else looked scummier, and then tomorrow will push for my lynch again, and the Town will have to decide between her and I.

Lol, did you miss the fact that I want you LYNCHED.

And I'll vig dour.

[springlullaby]

That's correct. Why

should

she get to make the choice, if the scenario being proposed is genuinely for the Town as a whole? Shouldn't everyone agree to the same plan? I mean, I'm agreeing to being lynched, for God's sake. Why do all of you seem to trust her enough to let her make this choice, by the way? Did I miss that part? If the Town as a whole wants to lynch SensFan instead of me, so be it, but make it the

Town's

choice, not SL's.

Point blank: I don't trust SL. I'm predicting that whichever one she's going to "vig" will somehow mysteriously not die, and then she'll have "proof" that the person was NK-immune... and then where will you be?

Nuhnuhnuhnuhnuh.

That doesn't even make sense. If anyone is worried I'm not targetting who I say I'll target, just make BB track me.

Beside, did you just miss the part of the plan in which I get lynch tomorrow no matter what? :roll::roll:

I'm set, I wanna sens lynch and I'll be vigging dour.

[springlullaby]

SL: why are you blatantly ignoring THE ENTIRE TOWN? This is a GROUP decision, not just yours... assuming you're interested in helping the Town win. Stop repeating the same thing over and over, it's useless and annoying. We all know what YOU want to do... you've made that abundantly clear. The issue is whether you should be allowed to choose in a pro-Town scenario, and I say no.

Huh, when exactly did I ignore the entire town. And good job playing the sideline referee while contributing EXACTLY ZIP to the discussion.

The extend of your contribution today:
1. make a shit case on me based on ....flavor! check
2. make 'look I'm so town because I'm willing to be lynched' posts while simultaneously dragging the day down. check
3. make appeal to emotion nonsense such as 'this is a group decision'. whine whine 'serious business is serious' whine whine. check

Only, you are all form, no content. What are you arguing with me about in the first place? I want to lynch Sens and to vig you. If you are willing to go to the lynch, it shouldn't even matter.

Bottom line is, you can complain all you want about my being 'annoying',
I don't see you contributing anything in term of 'taking pro-town' decision.

-------------------------------------------------------

I think dour is scum. Just read back the sickening appeal to emotion quoted above to convince yourself of it.

Sens I see as going either way, depends how big his ego is. But the pointless fighting against role such as panzer's being pretty much confirmed, and xtoxm despite not making sense as scum + short vision is very scummy.

mykonian is hard to tell, he has been looking nonsensical, but I've seen him as town and it was much the same.

--------------------------------------------

Right now I think my logic of leaving dour for the vig is good, because however scummy he may be, he also showed that he does fear being vigged.

Mykonian, is really hard to tell, but were he scum, I don't think he could have resisted to the temptation of 'let's lynch vig who may be SK anyway'.

So yes, I want Sens lynch, Dour vig. However, in the interest of thwarting scum generated noise, I'll unvote and let other decide. But really, my 1556 said it all already.

Unvote

[springlullaby]

Sens I see as going either way, depends how big his ego is.

So yeah, this is the umpteenth time you've tried to attack my character in this game.
I mentionned that you attacked my character in another game.
You told me you only attacked my character in that game because you were Scum.
This is the umpteenth time you've tried to attack my character in this game.

You are Scum.

No, I'm not attacking your character, and I certainly am not insulting you.

Tell me, is there are reason you are contributing nothing apart from whining?

If you are town and think me scum, yours is the highway to righteousness, and being beyond this. But no, you are choosing to offer nothing of value. What do you propose town do now?

[springlullaby]

It's not a "shit case" SL. Of course I understand why you're saying that: because you can't refute a single thing I've said regarding that case so far, and so you're reverting to the

same playstyle you've used all game, rudeness and vulgarity

, in an effort to trivialize the points I've made. So, for the sake of argument, let's review, shall we?

• You can't refute the "SK innocent when not killing" point because I linked you to an example of where it's been used in a game I designed, and because other players have agreed that it's a realistic possibility (or perhaps even probability, although I don't know that for certain).

1. This way lies ad hominem. 'rudeness and vulgarity'? Really? This is such a pathetic accusation. If you truly take offence to any of my address to you please go complain to the mod and I will respect arbitrage. In meantime be assured that I'm taking your ad hominem for what they are, floundering from scum who has nothing of interest to say.

2.

Fallacy

. Just because the role exist doesn't mean I'm it, I have nothing to disprove in the first place. This is such a crappy argument you can only be scum for it.

You can't refute the flavor text that explicitly says both kills were made by "the evil presence." And, since you've taken credit for one of those kills, you can't really explain it without outing yourself as being anti-Town.

Lie.

Not once in the flavor does Kloud mention an 'evil presence' in relation to ting's death.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 70#1553870
In fact, as far as the flavor goes describe Goat's death as far more gruesome and 'evil' contrasted to ting'death.

You claim that reading into flavor is a "shit case," but then rely on the flavor of a report on SensFan as your reasoning to want him lynched and me "vigged" instead of vice versa.[/list] You're scum, I have no doubt anymore.

False.

1. Your case based on flavor sucked because it was a lie in the first place. 2.The flavor is only part of the reason I think Sens should be lynched and you vigged. I've explained it, you voting me why it was suggested that sens should be lynched means that you are prolly not NK immune.

I'm not making emotional pleas, by the way, nor am I trying to drag the day down. If I were, I'd be trying to stay alive and I'm not. Note that, as convinced as I am of you being scum, I'm STILL not pushing for your lynch... that's because lynching me is correct Town play IMHO. You all have reason to suspect me, I can't be cleared without wasting an outed Cop's investigation, and I'm a VT, which makes me less useful to the Town than a PR.

Is that another round of 'look i'm so willing to die gimme town point'?
If you are not fighting your lynch, what the hell are you arguing for.

[springlullaby]

SL, are you OK with shooting mykonian instead of Sensfan?

I don't think it is a good decision but ok.

[springlullaby]

Assuming Dourgrim is the lynch, here is who wants SL to target the following:

Night-kill mykonian: GIEFF, B_B, Panzer
Night-kill SL: Sensfan
Night-kill Sensfan: SL

Is that right? Dourgrim, mykonian, and Xtoxm - who do you want SL to night-kill?

What is that?

[springlullaby]

Ah ok.

[springlullaby]

No sugar, I'm not killing myself because it is a 100% waste of my kill and give scum one more kill in case of error.

Do realize that if I were scum I wouldn't even argue this with you lot as I would just nod to whatever, then do whatever I want afterwards anyway.

What I'm ok with:

Lynch Sens - Vig Dour
Lynch Dour - Vig mykonian
Lynch Dour - Vig Sens <-----BUT YOU BLOODY MAKE SURE BB TRACK ME

[springlullaby]

2.

Fallacy

. Just because the role exist doesn't mean I'm it, I have nothing to disprove in the first place. This is such a crappy argument you can only be scum for it.

You can't refute the flavor text that explicitly says both kills were made by "the evil presence." And, since you've taken credit for one of those kills, you can't really explain it without outing yourself as being anti-Town.

Lie.

Not once in the flavor does Kloud mention an 'evil presence' in relation to ting's death.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 70#1553870
In fact, as far as the flavor goes describe Goat's death as far more gruesome and 'evil' contrasted to ting'death.

Another had been killed by the elusive threat to Merrin, but ting=) was not the only victim that night.

This ONE sentence says that ting=) was a victim of the elusive threat to Merrin. Is that really so hard to see?

You said 'evil', so what's your excuse for the misrep?

And:

The horrified screams of several children from a simple street corner crushed the facade of normalcy. At first, only few were drawn to the scene, murmuring in hushed whispers as they shielded the youths' eyes. As more and more people took to the streets, however, the commotion could not be contained. On that corner, which had been just as ordinary as the one's surrounding it, was now a scene of yet more carnage. Rust-hued blood stained the cobbles, splattered once-polished glass windows, and painted a nearby bench. As the teeming mass continued to grow, it was not long until someone recognized the wasted body. Littered with bullet holes, ting =)'s, corpse lay limp upon the street corner. Crows gazed upon the body from higher perches with great interest, squabbling just as much as the crowd below.

Another had been killed by the elusive threat to Merrin, but ting=) was not the only victim that night.

In the town square, another body waited silently to be discovered. As the group of deliberators filed into the open expanse silently, their eyes instantly fell upon the area just beneath the lone noose. A wooden stake jutted upward from lush greenery, standing out of place among the beautiful foliage. Upon that stake had been fastened the body of Goatrevolt, whose stomach had been torn open and stuffed full of straw. His innards had slowly begun to slide from their places, bulging outward from the gaping wound. Head hanging limply, straw fell from his mouth at random intervals, mixing with the pool of blood that had collected at his lifeless feet. The evil presence was determined to ward off any birds that threatened to disturb their fallen comrade qwints, so they had erected a scarecrow all their own.

See the placement of the sentence, it should be fucking obvious it's deliberately vague.

------------------------------

Anyway. I'm done arguing too.

[springlullaby]

Do realize that if I were scum I wouldn't even argue this with you lot as I would just nod to whatever, then do whatever I want afterwards anyway.

Not true. If you were scum, you would try to convince us to change our minds, because if you just did whatever you wanted afterwards anyway, you'd get lynched. We have two non-lylo lynches, and one of them has your name on it, no matter what happens.


The town is going to make three kills before lylo; Sens, Dourgrim, and SL. Why do you care if you get shot by yourself or lynched by the town tomorrow, SL? Your kill isn't wasted, as it frees up tomorrow's lynch, which would instead be wasted on you. One person's kill for the entire town's lynch (with a lot more information to go off of based on reports and the alignment of Dour and SL), is an excellent trade.

NO.

It matters because I know 100% that I'm not scum, so it is idiotic to ask me to kill myself.

It matters because wasting my kill on the off chance there is 4 man scum group.

It matters because I BLOODY KNOW I M NOT SCUM. SO IT IS JUST BLOODY STUPID TO ASK ME TO KILL MYSELF.

[springlullaby]

For fuck sake OK.

DO this already.

[springlullaby]

SL, why are you so concerned about us rushing into Night, when the soundness of our plan may very well decide whether or not we win?

Because incompetent ineptitude makes me bloody fucking irate.

It doesn't take a maths genus to see that there is no fail proof plan. Yet the chance of town losing are very low so WHAT ARE YOU ARGUING ABOUT

If you have a relevant suggestion to make, make it, in meantime, your pointlessness is directly credited to your failscum account.

[springlullaby]

Do this quick.

I'm VLA 6 to 17th april.

[springlullaby]

SL should kill herself, or else she is the SK.

SL has already shown that she is too egotistical to put the Town's goals ahead of her own, even if she's Town.

And to be honest, I would bet that even if the plan calls to shoot someone else, she'll kill me overnight if she's Town.

Oh, and you know me so well.

Scum.

[springlullaby]

Man, you guys are getting more and more ridiculous.

I've already said I'll do whatever 2 posts back.

TAKE A BLOODY DECISION BUT DO IT QUICK I M VLA 6 TO 17 APRIL.

[springlullaby]

Unvote, vote DOURGRIM

Ok that was the hammer.

If I don't say otherwise, I will vig GIEFF.

GIEFF you have till lynch scene to convince me not to vig you.

[springlullaby]

Start talking fast. I'm out to dinner in 40 min.

[springlullaby]

Yeah, but there is the whole voting for me, while at the same time pushing for Zilla.

And the whole today pointless arguing.

[springlullaby]

Fuck it.

I'll be taking myself out. I'll be VLA anyway.

BOLD SO NONE OF THE PR MISSES IT

[springlullaby]

Arg, crosspost. Please kloud let it stand.

[springlullaby]

OK. Seems I can still post.

So the plan:

I vig myself.
BB track one of the vanillas.
Panzer investigates BB.
Xtoxm makes sure BB/Panzer don't die.

[springlullaby]

No, BB hasn't tracked GIEFF.

Panz can check out Myk or BB, it's up to him.

[springlullaby]

Man it's retarded to track you, I don't how you can be scum.

[springlullaby]

But whatever.

[springlullaby]

No, 1 tracking =/= clearing.

But yes BB could be tracking you.

[springlullaby]

Yayes, win!

This game was nicely modded, thanks mod. I wish I'd done better with my role, but at least I got an awesome suicide scene.

IMO scumZilla actually played pretty well with a perfectly executed 'OMGUS baiting. I think Goat succeed in the looking town part of dealing with her but not in the making his case appealing part. Though that kind of dynamic is a difficult situation to be in and I have never actually seen it executed successfully in favour of town.

Sensfan's move was gutsy, and spot on, and funny in retrospect, kuddos.

I'd qualify Gieff's play as epileptic. Man is there one person you didn't suspect during the course of the game?

Do be completely honest, I've largely ignored them because it looks like your idea isn't to ask questions, but to call me out.

Not at all, SensFan. I wasn't even specifically addressing you in particular, to be honest, but rather was asking about playstyles in general. I've noticed a much more hostile playstyle becoming more prevalent around here, and I was trying to figure out how effective it is and whether it adds to the entertainment value of the game as a whole (since the entire point of a game is to provide entertainment for the players). I apologize if you feel like I was "calling you out" specifically... that was not my intention.

Lol, I think this is directed at me and I don't mind answering to the intention even if the criticism is very roundabout.

I wasn't nice D2 and D3:
- for defensive purpose: my play was wanting due to loss of interest and misvig N1 - my observation is that 'nice' get lynched quicker, angry keeps everyone on edge.

Why I wasn't nice to you in particular D3:
- you were most probably scum
- your case genuinely sucked (you blaming it on the mod flavour made me roll my eyes btw) and I had no reason to manage my buddy buddy points at that point in the game since it was under wrap in my opinion.

Note that I never crossed the line to overt insult or ad hominem - I take delighted pleasure in toying it.

Hope this answer your question