Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[Firestarter]

/Confirm

[Firestarter]

VOTE: Rage

Just finished a game containing an enemy to town, named Rage.

This is clearly not a coincidence...

[Firestarter]

afatchick & Strangercoug are both obv-scum.

Time I got me a wagon together!!

UNVOTE; VOTE: afatchick

[Firestarter]

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

FOS:BATTUOSAI

for applying "tactics" in the random voting stage

*****************

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

FOS:BATTUOSAI

for applying "tactics" in the random voting stage

And the thing wrong with that is?

I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P
so doing so was a scum tell

Towny doesn't feel akward around the random stage

So, by your own admission, your scum...

Thank you..

UNVOTE; VOTE: millar13

[Firestarter]

UNVOTE; VOTE: afatchick

So why vote me instead of him?

Because I wanted to.. Why?

*picks up baseball bat and heads straight for Korlash*

[Firestarter]

Hehe, Millar13, well done.

You've cracked the game, bravo...

Moreover, you've gone on to establish that a bit of pressure is scummy.

WRONG.

Pressure reveals quite alot, to ascertain who IS scummy under pressure/who IS town under pressure.
To be frank, there was no pressure at all, and your worry at appearing scummy if you had have voted is.. scummy

In the random stage no wagon will ever gather serious steam unless a scumbag does something catastrophic on their part.

So I would ask you to relax, and not get too carried away with yourself right now.

At this time, only scum can be sure of who's who, and with the little information gathered thus far, tonwies have no clue.

But pressure leads to info, and info is good for townies.

Morning tea seems to be done alright, and for this time I shall..

UNVOTE

[Firestarter]

Scum on the retreat? Lurking back into the shadow at the first sign of attention.
Still very much 50/50 on you at the moment...as I'm not sure how that makes you look. But since we are still in the early stage of the day, and you are the only really the first person to stand up to the plate it could be a case that the real mafia are lurking in the wings.

May I ask you a question, I cant be bothered going to check...

How many games have you played here/completed?

[Firestarter]

Bandwagons are often used in early stages, by over-eager mafia members or town members looking to be part of an easy lynch so that they don't feel to guilty about it if they are in heavy unison.

With that being said, I think Strangecoug your heart is in the right place just searching in the wrong direction.

The bolded part....
Bandwagons, as Ive already stated are good for town, and in the random stage, they hardly gather momentum, unless, again as Ive already stated, a scumbag makes a complete fuck-up on their part.
Your also more wrong than right stating a townie led bandwagon is merely used for town to easy-lynch someone, unless the whole cast of the game is made up of noobs.

I find it hilarious that you already are discounting SC as scum, and me as town.

With so little info available already from those contributing, your statements are pretty darn "certain" right now.

FOS: millar13

[Firestarter]

Slight FOS:
Rage
Pacman
Issac
Dubya

Now granted its Easter, thus the slight fos. I understand if you have not posted much as of yet. But come tuesday, I would like opinions from these people before this goes ANY farther.

agreed firestarter?

I would prefer full participation from all, but since its a holiday period, grace is fairly granted.

[Firestarter]

I am not perfect, and so I make mistakes. Doesn't help that two of my fingers are broken. If I make mistakes, I will continue you to correct them.

Mistakes aren't scummy, they are just a human quality

So, 2 of your fingers are broken, and you cannot help making mistakes???

WHAT?

[Firestarter]

Basically if I make typing errors or, use the wrong word don't take it too mean something that it doesn't. Half full rather than half empty.

Bollox-ology Im afraid...

You dont mistakenly write the wrong word, wrong letter, yes, not the wrong word.

Upgrading to...

VOTE: millar13

[Firestarter]

Hmm... Ok..

I agreed that the other players should at least post on whats been happening here before anything else happens...

UNVOTE: millar13

MAJOR FoS: millar13

[Firestarter]

Hmm... Ok..

I agreed that the other players should at least post on whats been happening here before anything else happens...

UNVOTE: millar13

MAJOR FoS: millar13

Minor FoS: Firestarter

. Don't be so quick to retract a vote.

In fact, it was the other way round..

I was too quick to place the vote.

Look back on the other page, you'll see why.

[Firestarter]

SC looks town to me.
Whilst Pac doesn't give off anything to me.

My reason for Fire have already been given, but as yet I still don't actually have a vote out.

Is there something special with your particular vote?
Its there for a reason, why are you even refusing to place it on me, after saying Im most scumlike???? Im still baffled as to your reasoning...
And with the arguments that have taken place beforehand, your still treating your vote as something sacred!!

[Firestarter]

At the moment I have only belive that these four players (including myself) have brought anything really solid to the game:

-Strangecoug
-Millar13
-Battousai
-FireStarter

the rest seem to be either Active Lurking, with the odd "I am still here post" or just off the radar completly. At the moment null tells is ultimatley all I have been given so far, and quite often in games it is only the null tells and little things that the mafia actually give away. Sometimes you have to be a little OTT and see the impossible as possible.

The only solid stuff I see so far is your defensiveness, your wiki-mafia-knowledge (which was being applied in the random voting stage), your 2 broken fingers which are contributing to "Mistakes" and Strangercoug FoS'ing me for retracting a vote that I gave my word to Sajin I would not do until more players posted.

Now your saying that ALL you have to work off is null tells???

Obviously your mafia-wiki-knowledge isn't up to scratch...

How the hell can you make assumptions from null tells?
And why are you, admittedly, OTT?

[Firestarter]

Ok, in the random voting stage, and Ive mentioned this already, I like to be less serious, because when the game gets going, my serious-shades are placed upon the bridge of my nose...
Got it?

After that, my FoS's and votes count, which happened to only be on you, millar13.

After I FoS'd you, Sajin posted the following....

Now granted its Easter, thus the slight fos. I understand if you have not posted much as of yet. But come tuesday, I would like opinions from these people before this goes ANY farther.

agreed firestarter?

I then replied this...

I would prefer full participation from all, but since its a holiday period, grace is fairly granted.

Afterwards, your posts got worse, scummy worse, and I placed a vote on you.
See where Im going millar?

I retracted after I granted grace for the other players to post, and I assure you millar, my vote WILL be going back on you unless someone else is scummier/you become more pro-town.

Am I clear now?
This also goes for Strangercoug... RE: retracting my vote so quickly..

[Firestarter]

1.

In this game you have to be a little over the top...you need to blow the small clues out of proportion otherwise really you need to leave mafiascum and go back to playing cluedo with your kid sister.

2.

wiki-mafia-knowledge (I have none...I have never actually looked at the wiki unless via a specific link)

3.

if you notice I said the word "ULTIMATLEY all" which means the majority, but not every single one. Dont' try and twist my words against me, because it won't work.

1.

If you are town, you do not need to be OTT. IMO, thats reserved for scum, thats how mis-lynches occur. By bending the truth, twisting words, etc, etc.

2.

You sound to me like someone reading from mafia-wiki.

3.

Ultimately All means you have nothing to go on?
Ultimately is described in any dictionary as...

as the end result of a succession or process

BTW, leave my little sister out of this...

[Firestarter]

The problem with you....is without being rude "you don't seem to have the guts" to vote for me yet, even though you have in as many words confirmed you will put your vote back on me anyway.

This...

[Firestarter]

EBWOP

Sorry millar, whats your case on me please?

[Firestarter]

The problem with you....is without being rude

"you don't seem to have the guts" to vote for me yet

, even though you have in as many words confirmed you will put your vote back on me anyway.

I however, believe you look the most scummy so far. Slight difference.

OMG...

Pot and kettle, much!!

[Firestarter]

Firestarter does seem a bit off. Not to play both sides of the fence, but he is saying a lot of bad stuff about you yet hasn't revoted you. His quick retraction (which he defended as voting too soon) is not enough to warrant a vote, but I am looking at him, so don't call me tunnel-visioned even though I've mostly gone after you so far.

Hang on for a second...

Ive explained why i retracted my vote, its as clear as day.

Other than what Ive explained, how else am I "off?

[Firestarter]

Its ok Sajin, enough people have posted now, and Ill do, again, what I said I'd do...
One thing town should NOT do, is do something they said they wouldn't..

VOTE: millar13

[Firestarter]

As for you FireStarter, I want to know how many more times you will vote and unvote for me on Day 1...because its is just refreshing.

At the moment, there is absolutely no reason to take my vote from you.

[Firestarter]

We just found millar13's scumbuddy...

[Firestarter]

Vote: Firestarter

for post 108, OMGUS.

That along with your waiting to vote seems scummiest to me right now.

And how do you explain millar13 not even placing a vote yet?

Isaac has only looked at my posts, and turned them into something they are not.

He seems to go on meta for millar13, which is easy for a scumbuddy to summons up.
AND particularly if he's not going to look at other players meta's.
Its opportunistic at the least imo.

Ignoring millars actions in this game is extraordinarily baffling.. or scummy.

[Firestarter]

1.

He has done nothing, but read them as they are.

Either you haven't quite comprehended what you have written or you have actually slipped up along the way.

2.

Why haven't I voted yet...well I guess you can I was biding my time and now I think you certainly are scum.

3.

How you reacted to just myself pointing the finger was one thing, but now that two others are also pointing you have be cut right open.

1.

Please try to explain to me what on gods earth you've just written in the bolded part of section 1 of your post?
Are you telling me

you dont know

why your voting for me?

2.

What were you biding your time for?
Were you waiting for another player to post something just so you could hop on?
Again, what you are doing is utterly scummy and Im now convinced your scum.
* First off you come up with mafia-wiki tells early game, then you start to
* apply them to votes made in the RVS. You then suggest with fuck-all
* info that SC is town and Im scum.
* Afterwards you say that any tells you have are null tells?
* Throw into the mix that your blaming 2 broken fingers on writing the
* wrong words and that sometimes you need to act OTT at times in
* games for whatever reason, I dunno..

3.

You say I need to be cut right open... Go ahead millar13, in your own words, whatever use that'll do, post your case aginst me.
Ill refute everything you have to say scum.

And may I also remind you and the rest of the players that you first mentioned me & the word scum in only your 5th post of the game, me having made only 4, all in the RVS.

So I want your case, in full and from the beginning please...

[Firestarter]

You want my case....haven't you read anything I have posted earlier.
Haven't you read Battousai's post or Isaac's post.

The case is a collective case, and one that has grown since the start of the game. Nothing has changed, nothing knew has come to light. And you don't have the power to demand anything from me. If you don't know why you are seen as scum now, then I doubt you ever will.

Your refusing?

I want to see your case on me in 1 post, clear & concise.

[Firestarter]

millar13...

You called me scum in your 5th post.

Ive addressed the concerns brought by other players.

But I want

your case on me...

Your continuing refusal aides your already scummy play.

I want to see your case on me...
Dont fuck around or try to stall again.

[Firestarter]

Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.

Next time I log on, I want to see your clear & concise case, in 1 post, got it?

[Firestarter]

Dont worry millar...

Im here, writing my reply.

[Firestarter]

Before I get to millar13, there are a couple of things that need to be cleared up that I didn't get to before I rushed off earlier.

1.

It's as easy for a scum buddy to find as a townie. And how in the hell is meta usage opprotunistic? you're arguements are kinda stupid you know.

2.

and would you mind actually commenting on Issac's 107?

1.

I agree with the first part of your sentence. The 2nd part I meant "Isaac seemed opportunistic" in the way he put forward the post with its points against me.

2.

Firestarter is scum. Typo's are not scumtells, nor is bad wording.

You unvoted not because people weren't posting, but because you were unsure as to whether or not you were on a popular enough wagon.

Your attitude is anti-town.


Firestarter claims null-tells can't give reads. Have you meta'd Millar yet? If so, you should know that he is an Empking, or a Zwet, meaning that most of the stuff you are accusing him of are null-tells.

Millar seems town to me. Going off attitude here, not actions (often more telling, as actions can be gambits or foolishness, but attitude usually remains constant.

Isaac seems to think Im voting millar13 because he made a "typo"..... No, its more than that. He should read whats been written so far.
He seems to think I unvoted millar13 because it "wasn't popular"... No, I agreed with Sajin that I'd wait until others posted. The funny thing is that millar13 is

MORE

guilty of this, because of his unwillingness to vote me, and then doing it ONLY after others had done so.
Isaac also thinks millar is town due to "attitude"... Thats a new one to me, I must admit.
I accuse players of being scum based on their actions in the actual game we're playing in.. Am I missing something?
Isaac thinks my "attitude" is anti-town.. but does not state why??? So.. Why??

*******************************************************

1.

Read what you quoted again, even if it's obsolete.

2.

We just found millar13's scumbuddy...

And you're not saying who it is straight up because?

3.

Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.

I don't think two hours is a fair time limit. Upgrade to an

HoS: Firestarter

.

1.

I dont need to read it again, you explained that I answered about the vote/unvote of millar13, I wanted to know why you were still keeping an "eye" on me, as you did not make that 2nd point clear.

2.

This post came straight after Isaac's post attacking me with the exact same horseshit millar13 posted. Not only that, but there was very little content about anyone else.. very little. Sounded defensive of millar13, and I like to pressurise where I can.

3.

At the time, millar13 was online with me, and we were posting within minutes of each other. Is it so unreasonable to think he was still there when I posted that post?
Not only that, but he blatantly refused to post his case as requested by me several times. This is clear SC.
You placed a HoS on me for asking for millars case, which he blankly refused to do, yet I get the HoS... ?????

Ill post my reply to millar13 shortly.

[Firestarter]

@ millar13

Now you clearly are not just a plain vanilla townie...that is more than clear from post 121. Clearly you are sitting on some sort of power position (I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum) otherwise you wouldn't be so frustrated and resorting to using offensive language. Why would someone with no real power feel the need to swear and your such horrible and disgusting I do not know.

millar13, your making accusations, yet your not actually following them up with your reasons for them.
Please do this so I can answer them.....
1. How do you percieve me more than being vanilla townie from post 121?
2. How am I clearly sitting on some sort of power position?
3. You say you doubt me as pro-town, then you say Im "Concrete Scum"... Only scum can be concrete about a players alignment, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion?
4. There is,however, one part I can answer here, and its your accusation of me being offensive and frustrated.
Yes, I was frustrated because you refused to even say you'd post a case on me after I asked you. Twice.
If I was offensive, which I dont believe I was as I did not directly insult you, then I apologise.
Abusing someone or bringing their family members into a game is not something I ever do.

The likelihood is that you actually believed in our back-and-forth confrontations that with the introduction of other players I would come off looking worse, and they would put their votes on me rather than yourself.

What you have to understand, is that a large amount of my case is built upon the fact that people actually see you in the same way as I do...although their views are more valuable as they are very much out-side the box and therefore provide me with a more rational view of things.

Both our posts up to now are under the scrutiny of who's reading them, I can only post what I think.
If someone else thinks your scum, so be it. If someone else thinks Im scum, Ill answer their concerns/thoughts/accusations appropriatly.
Ive bolded a part of your quote above, because I dont understand what you trying to say.
Please re-phrase this or at least clarify it.

You start off with post (24) a

clear random vote

, one that would be expected and you are just like every other player who "chooses" to particpate in the RVS. It isn't compulsory and therefore, be not taking part really should not be seen as some sort of

issue

Acute obversation.

afatchic and Strangecoug have some sort of RVS conflict, with what is clearly a case of you vote for me, I vote you. However, this if often just playful in the RVS and doesn't actually amount to anything solid. You then for some unknown reason suggest that both of them are scum, and then unvote and

Vote afatchic

(by the time you have voted a second time, you have ended your personal random stage) and so this is just the beginning for you.

Incorrect, It was still in the RVS stage for me. This is my post...

afatchick & Strangercoug are both obv-scum.

Time I got me a wagon together!!

UNVOTE; VOTE: afatchick

I think its very clear by reading this, my post was part of the "playfullness" as you put it.

Then me and Strangecoug have some sort of situation, where he suspects me as scum and at the time I didn't quite know what to think. Once again you you jumped on a altercation and made it your business to vote against for the

third time

with no real case.

Again, incorrect.
Below is the quote pyramid...

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

FOS:BATTUOSAI

for applying "tactics" in the random voting stage

And the thing wrong with that is?

I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P
so doing so was a scum tell

Towny doesn't feel akward around the random stage

And below is my post...

So, by your own admission, your scum...

Thank you..

UNVOTE; VOTE: millar13

I made this post to apply some light pressure on you and see your response, after you stated SC was the first player to try to end the RVS.
My reading of who started getting serious first reads like this..
Battousai >> Post 23
millar13 >> Post 25
Strangercoug. >> Post 28
When you made this statement...

"I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P"

, and if you believed it to be true, you should have went after Battousai, as it could be argued that it was he who posted the first real serious post of the game, and not Strangercoug. In fact, Strangercoug was spot on when he said that you were guilty of what you accussed SC of, and in my book, even more so since your post came before SC's.

Despite this you actually seemed to be able to talk some sense with Post 49:

Firestarter:
"Hehe, Millar13, well done.

You've cracked the game, bravo...

Moreover, you've gone on to establish that a bit of pressure is scummy.

WRONG.

Pressure reveals quite alot, to ascertain who IS scummy under pressure/who IS town under pressure.
To be frank, there was no pressure at all, and your worry at appearing scummy if you had have voted is.. scummy

In the random stage no wagon will ever gather serious steam unless a scumbag does something catastrophic on their part.

So I would ask you to relax, and not get too carried away with yourself right now.

At this time, only scum can be sure of who's who, and with the little information gathered thus far, tonwies have no clue.

But pressure leads to info, and info is good for townies.

Morning tea seems to be done alright, and for this time I shall..

UNVOTE"

Is this meant to be part of your case?
In a previous post to mine, Post 47, you state this...

I don't want to vote now...because the "random stage" has stopped, and we are now very much past morning tea and gone into the seriousness of Day 1. Votes should be value not thrown around with no real reason.

In my post, I clearly state that I thought the RVS stage was done, "

Morning tea seems to be done alright

"
Your post previous referred to such. I removed the vote on you because we were moving to the serious part of the game.
The only difference being, you did not participate in the RVS.

Then in Post 73 you vote for a

4th time

although this time it is very much for reason outside the came, or for reasons of "bollox-ology" what ever that words is actually meant to mean I do not know.
Only two posts later you have then unvoted me, and put me on MAJOR FOS. Making you undecisive but also seeming as the fact that pacman didn't actually seem to back you reason, as the reason why you felt you need to back off yourself.

Ok, Ive given the reason for this at least twice, once more shouldn't hurt...
my interaction with Sajin before voting/unvoting you are as follows.

I do agree on the amount of scumminess of millar13. A townie would not fear nearly as much about the RV stage as I have posted before. I would possibly be willing to push this to a soft claim, but before that I want posts by those who have not posted.

Slight FOS:
Rage
Pacman
Issac
Dubya


Now granted its Easter, thus the slight fos. I understand if you have not posted much as of yet. But come tuesday, I would like opinions from these people before this goes ANY farther.

agreed firestarter?

I would prefer full participation from all, but since its a holiday period, grace is fairly granted.

At this point, I made an agreement NOT to let anything go further...
But with your posts, Posts 70 & 72, you were talking nonsensically. 2 broken fingers accounting for mistakes, and then this...

Basically if I make typing errors or, use the wrong word don't take it too mean something that it doesn't. Half full rather than half empty.

After the scumminess you portrayed, and the nonsense you posted afterwards, I placed my vote on you.

You state you were too quick to place the vote, when funnily enough this was the 2nd time you had already voted me. If it had been the first time it might have actually have made some sense, but second time is sort of suspicious.

I retracted the vote because I agreed with Sajin I would not go any further.
And... Why would an agreement at the first time of voting you, in the RVS, be any different to the 2nd time?
And why was it suspicious?

It wasn't until page 5 however, that any real strong feeling to actually vote for you came into frutition

Then at Post 103, you vote for the

fifth time

the 3rd time you have had a vote on me and seem to back it up with the fact that more people haved posted, even if it is only one post and therefore not really enough too:

I stated I would place my vote on you, what would you have thought if I didn't?
Like the agreement I had with Sajin, I also kept my word about placing the vote back on you. I posted this...

I retracted after I granted grace for the other players to post, and I assure you millar, my vote WILL be going back on you unless someone else is scummier/you become more pro-town.

The fact of the matter, and the main reason you are being voted by me is because no-one else is scummier than you right now, and has not been since I first stated I would be voting you.

Allow this post to actually occur. All that really happend was Rage, Korlash and Sejin surfaced for the first time (some more than others) but you didn't really take in what they said as you had already decided you were going to place your vote back on me either way.

3 players account for 25% of the players in the game. Since 6 players were already posting, those 3 brought it up to 9 players or 75% of the players in this game. I took into account what they said, but you remain top of my scum list.

Isaac made some good points, not all great or perfect, but some good points none the less and you didn't even challenge what he said but gave a week response of:

We just found millar13's scumbuddy...

That post is convincing to anyone, and is pretty feeble at attempting what ever it was that psot was meant to accomplish.

This has been addressed in my previous post.
What is "convincing" about it, and what am I attempting to do?

Then Battousai voted for you...and in many ways what was said in the start of Post 111 was exactly what you had done, as you have taken yourself from small tells and null tells to something much more open and readable. It was in many ways this post, that did enough to convince me that you were worth voting for. That is all I have against you at the moment.

Battousai's One-liner on me in 111 has been addressed in my Post 113.

I am not saying I think your 100% scum, but you 60/40 at the moment in my mind.

Covering yourself much?

Why I didn't give you a case straight away...simple. Because I was in the middle of writing it but also because I wanted to see your initial reaction. You are clearly someone who believes they should be in control.

Sorry, Im not buying this.
These are your posts after I requested your case on me...

You want my case....haven't you read anything I have posted earlier.
Haven't you read Battousai's post or Isaac's post.
The case is a collective case, and one that has grown since the start of the game. Nothing has changed, nothing knew has come to light. And you don't have the power to demand anything from me. If you don't know why you are seen as scum now, then I doubt you ever will.

&

I'm not refusing, I am just inidicating that you case is long-running. It hasn't stopped and it still continues. If you clearly believe that a strong case doesn't already exist against you then you are clearly deluded. Your own posts are very much a key part of this case. You in many ways have proven to be your own worst enemy.

I do not see anything in either post to suggest you were preparing a case, or otherwise.

Your case is full of accusations without any reasoning.
Alot of it stems from the RVS, and you give wrong information about when it ended and by whome, which messes up alot of what you say here.
There are alot of questions I'd like you to answer stemming from the above.
Alot of your posts are confusing.

[Firestarter]

After millar13's last post, I propose a trade off with him.

Lynch me, and when I flip town, lynch him.

Are we agreed millar13?

Im happy to take a hit for town here, your play is unbelievably scummy.
Not only that, but town have alot of info to work off on others who have blatantly ignored what Ive posted throughout the game.

millar13... What you say?

[Firestarter]

First of all millar13, answer my question in my response to your case that has fallen flat on its face.

Im not going to beat around the bush here anymore.

The questions in my post are easy to find, they generally end with ?

Please answer these, as all you've done is make accusations without reasoning.

When this is done, Ill post my case on you in a full clear and concise post.

I do not want anything else from you other than answers to my questions.

[Firestarter]

Please answer these questions regarding accusations you made of me.
You still have not done so...
They are part of "Your case", and you have not explained how you've come to any conclusions.

1.

How do you percieve me more than being vanilla townie from post 121?

2.

How am I clearly sitting on some sort of power position?

3.

You say you doubt me as pro-town, then you say Im "Concrete Scum"... Only scum can be concrete about a players alignment, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion?

BTW.. this...

1) It is quite clear that in fact you don't actually read all the posts, and you seem to pick out through the ones that suit you best. If you had read Strangecoug's Post 127. You will noticed that I actually admitted it wasn't actually a good opening and it was slightly floored.

Ive read every post in the game. Ive answered every question asked of me.

4.

How have you come to a conclusion that Ive only read certain posts?
I mean, most of your case has been explained in individual posts made in the game, yet you choose to ignore them...
And I take it you meant "Flawed" rather than "floored?
And I agree, it is flawed, and wrong.

******************************

This...

2) I didn't say you were sitting on one, but rather you are acting in a mannerism as if you were.

But prior, you posted this...

Now you clearly are not just a plain vanilla townie...that is more than clear from post 121.

Clearly you are sitting on some sort of power position

Contradiction, you lied about NOT saying I was sitting on a power role, when in fact, you did. As of yet, I still have had no reason from you as to what you came to this conclusion.

****************************

Firestarter:
"3. You say you doubt me as pro-town, then you say Im "Concrete Scum"... Only scum can be concrete about a players alignment, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion?"

Could you twist me word anymore? What I actually said was...

"(I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum)

I did not twist your words, More lies.
You can again clearly see the posts you and I made above.
Its a FACT that scum are the only faction in a town v scum mafia game that know alignment.
Again your phrasing is way off.
You doubt me as town usually equates that you have less doubt in me being scum.
Not >> I doubt you are town, you are therefore concrete scum.

******************************

My case doesn't work with just my own opinion. The fact that Battousai and Isaac also appears to be on the same wavelenght as me (NOTE THIS IS NOT A WAGON, SO DON'T CLAIM IT IS) was a clear sign to me that I wasn't the only person to think you were coming off looking like scum. The reason their views are more valuable, is because are are indirectly involved and so their view are not biased. Easy enough to understand.

The fact is millar, you called me likely scum in your 5th post, after my first 4 posts, which were in the RVS, like it or not.
Your case goes back way further than Isaac's or Battousai's posts.
In any case, one or both could be a scumbuddy, and in the event of that being the case, well, you know where Im going with this.

*******************************

That is all your getting from me, you are in fact very lucky that I changed my mind and decided to 'cater to your needs'. Don't expect the same again.

Why do you want to keep schtum as much as possible?

If you firmly believe in your case, or that of others, than posting info is good, regardless if your wrong or right.
Alot can be extracted from posts made, its what town have to go on in finding scum.

One more thing that needs to be said is that my first post out of the RVS that was serious was my 5th post, Post 49. I unvoted here because we were out of the RVS.
Not, as you claim, any of my first 4.

My full case on you will be posted today at some point, I dont have time for it now.

[Firestarter]

MOD: apologies for the bolding right after your post, but its a wee bit pedantic don't you think?

I like how firestarter bolds right after the mod warns about it....

?

******************

I answer all your questions...so be just deal with it. You already have you answers.
I am not giving you an in-depth 101 on how I play this game and what tactics I used to scum-hunt. This isn't just about you or me so deal with.

From now on I am IGNORING you. And yes you did twist me words especially concerning the "concrete" bit. Stop with your spin and accept your fate

No, you did not answer all my questions.
You come across as "chastising" in some of your statements, and not answering my questions. There is a huge difference.

I am in no way looking for you to divulge your tactics for scumhunting, please point out where I made that request, instead of just blurting out more accusations and word-twisting.
Post by post, you've continually made accusations against me, as early as in the RVS, and blankly refuse to follow them up with any sort of reasoning...

And your entirely free to ignore me millar13, but it does not bode well for your "case"...
Its clear you cannot answer the questions Ive posed, questions that stem from YOUR case.
What fate is that millar.. lynching?
Im not afraid to be lynched if it catches scum.
And I will be posting a case on you shortly.


I however, will not be ignoring you.

[Firestarter]

I see more unreasoned accusations SC...

Firestarter is going downhill... twice now you've said it.

Any particular reasons?

And would you not wait till I post my case on millar13 before changing your vote?

Or is it merely tactical?

[Firestarter]

@ Isaac...

I would post a more content-rich post, however Millar seems to be doing well enough on his own, and we all know that Firestarter won't pay any attention to me anyways (as he still never even countered or acknowledged my original arguments against him).

Just goes to show how much your reading the game Isaac....
Did you by any chance read post 131??

I guess you didn't, I imagine you may have missed some other posts too...
Go back and read..

*********************************

@ Sajin

confirm vote firestarter

Still at 2 below

I think we get more information out of a firestarter lynch at this point.

Why did you feel it necessary to confirm your vote?

*********************************

@ Battousai

Firestarter, come on. He answered all of your questions. You just didn't get the answers you wanted. I think the main problem you have is reading compehension.

Here are my questions, its quite obvious now I need help, as you seem to know where the actual answers are hidden to these, would you mind pointing them out for me?

1.

How do you percieve me more than being vanilla townie from post 121?

2.

How am I clearly sitting on some sort of power position?

3.

You say you doubt me as pro-town, then you say Im "Concrete Scum"... Only scum can be concrete about a players alignment, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion?

4.

How have you come to a conclusion that Ive only read certain posts?
I mean, most of your case has been explained in individual posts made in the game, yet you choose to ignore them...
And I take it you meant "Flawed" rather than "floored?
And I agree, it is flawed, and wrong.

********************************

@ Strangercoug

Largely millar13's case. Yes, I just accused him of bussing you (and vice versa ), but as I said, the case is good. I'm looking at #126 minus the first paragraph. Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately.

When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?

You say Ive been responding poorly to pressure, and that Ive been going downhill...
At least have the balls to point to some examples, I cannot defend against the invisible.

********************************

@ Isaac..

You see more unreasoned accusations?

Funny, because here I see more OMGUS.

Funny, there was a question in my post previous to this, it wasn't answered... But Im getting used to players NOT wanting to share any info they have/concoct.

I would post a more content-rich post, however Millar seems to be doing well enough on his own, and we all know that Firestarter won't pay any attention to me anyways (as he still never even countered or acknowledged my original arguments against him).

This roughly translates to....
I would add more to lynching Firestarter apart from my vote, but when millar13 succeeds with his case, I can go after him. Yippee!

********************************

Honestly, town, you gotta be blind..
Not only are you sitting in the sidelines doing nothing, but your watching others make accusations that they have hardly followed up on.
Also, when a request, or a question has been asked, its either been blankly refused, or overlooked without being answered.

********************************

I shall be posting my case on millar13 shortly, if anyone is remotely interested in what I have to say, Ill be back with said post

[Firestarter]

Firestarter I would like to see a case for Isacc, considering you accused him of being my scumbuddy. I won't give you a deadline, so don't worry to much about how long you take.

Isaac is on my list as scum also, I have a bad feeling about him, particularly the way he just pops in and posts.
If Im around later on, a case may be made.

[Firestarter]

Case on millar13

Post 21

I don't vote in the random stage, but HIYA

Post 23

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

Post 25

FOS:BATTUOSAI

for applying "tactics" in the random voting stage

Post 28

And the thing wrong with that is?

Post 33

I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P. So doing so was a scum tell.
Towny doesn't feel akward around the random stage

The first serious post belongs to Battousai, 2nd belongs to millar13 and the 3rd belongs to Strangercoug.
millar13 overlooks Battousai's original post as the first serious post of the game, but accuses SC of this exclaiming it was a scum-tell. This is the first falsity. Why was Battousai's post overlooked in favour of SC's? Distancing/bussing of either comes to mind.

*****************************************************************************************

I clearly seen this falsity, and applied light pressure on millar13 with...

So, by your own admission, your scum... Thank you..

UNVOTE; VOTE: millar13

millar13 then says...

Strangecoug is probably a townie who believes he is a "scum-hunter" but is going in all gones blazing. You really don't need to put your vote down at the first possible chance. A town player doesn't need to rush into a vote, and FOS first normally work better in your favor.
As for Firestarter: I think that you are likely a scum partner who has seen this comment

Strangecoug:
"Hey, guys! I found a good wagon here!"

And used it to your advantage by doing just that. Forming a wagon so early in a game really is quite a scummy thing to do, for the simple fact that at Page 2 wagons shouldn't form.
What makes me think your even more scummy is this earlier post.

Firestarter:
"afatchick & Strangercoug are both obv-scum.

Time I got me a wagon together!!

UNVOTE; VOTE: afatchick"

Town players don't look to start or join wagon so early on in a game, unless they are genuinely sure. For this reason I think that Battousai in fact should not have been under my watch and that in fact you should be instead.

FOS: Firestarter

After initially stating that SC let slip a scum-tell, which was NOT. M13 then says SC looks townie trying to scumhunt?
With my post M13's reaction is interesting. He flips straight onto me saying Im a "scum partner" and goes on quoting one of my RVS posts and believes I jumped on what SC posted... "Hey, guys! I found a good wagon here!". M13 then says that players should not be looking to place a vote as early as they can.... Why the hell not? Just because you didn't in the RVS?
Votes are the best source of forcing info from a player, yet you didn't use yours. Thats not a scum-tell, but telling others they shouldn't place a vote/start a wagon is. This is another falsity.

*****************************************************************************************

Your right don't feel awkward about the random stage....
So why would you not vote, like everyone else is doing?
And why would you FOS the 2 people who put a slight bit of pressure on you, millar13?

If you read Post 42 Sajin you would have noticed, that I no longer FOS Battousai and instead I am looking at Firestarter in stead
And three people have put pressure on me so far, not including you...so I think you need to check your facts first and then come back to me.
I won't confirm and actually place my vote, until I am sure I that the person I am voting for appears the most scum looking. At the moment, I have suspicions but not hard fact

Thanks for answering the questions millar13, looks townie.
You still don't want to vote in the random voting stage, looks neither alignment, in and of itself, but stops information, slightly scummy.
You still fear being suspected though, scummy.
I do agree that the wagon needs to back off more for post content though. Wagons are bad for us, especially this early. Town needs more posts with content.

I don't want to vote now...because the "random stage" has stopped, and we are now very much past morning tea and gone into the seriousness of Day 1. Votes should be value not thrown around with no real reason.
And yeah I do fear of being suspected being scummy, but then again must people do tend to feel that way now and again. I just want to help the town bring the scum down to its knees.

This brief exchange between sajin and M13 does not seem right, it almost looks staged. sajin asks some good questions in his 1st post imo, M13 does everything but answer the questions, instead re-stating his reluctance to place a vote in the RVS. M13 says he wont vote for anyone until he's sure they're scum. So far, he's named 2 players as having scum-tells from the RVS, and failed to address questions directly. This pattern of dodging questions develops as the game goes on.
sajin, for me, loses the credit I awarded him for his 1st and subsequent remarks about M13 still looking scummy when he says wagons are bad for town. Wagons are not bad for town! Neither is using your vote. 2 crap-logic statements made in this exchange. And sajin does not follow up on his suspicions later on.

*****************************************************************************************

Scum on the retreat? Lurking back into the shadow at the first sign of attention.
Still very much 50/50 on you at the moment...as I'm not sure how that makes you look. But since we are still in the early stage of the day, and you are the only really the first person to stand up to the plate it could be a case that the real mafia are lurking in the wings.

The first statement is out and out scummy considering M13 later states that my Post 49 is the first real sign of townieness from me which happened to be my first serious post of the game. He states he's still 50/50 on me, wouldn't town be 50/50 on anyone in game, especially after just coming out of the random stage? He then looks at lurkers, saying that scum may be contained within them, why not place a vote on one them to get them to post?

*****************************************************************************************

And I still think you should be bandwagoned. You're cracking under pressure. Town should not be doing that.

SC picks up on M13's earlier post, and claims M13 is feeling the prerssure. His early posts, especially after I changed my vote to him, back this statement up.

I clearly made an error...I meant to say that Firestarter was a scum member (not scum partner) I have no reason to beleive that yourself (Strangecoug) is actually aligned with that.
Am I cracking under pressure? Not that I noticed.
And believe it or not Firestarter comment in Post 49, actually indicate what i feel about wagon's in the early game...even if I am convinced he is the most likely scum member at the moment. Although, not enough active players have sprouted to give a fully loaded judgement.
Bandwagons are often used in early stages, by over-eager mafia members or town members looking to be part of an easy lynch so that they don't feel to guilty about it if they are in heavy unison. With that being said, I think Strangecoug your heart is in the right place just searching in the wrong direction.

M13 uses the word "clearly". If the error was clear, SC would not have pointed the error out. He states then that Im a scum member rather than a scum partner. This is how scum is caught, by errors made in posts, if no-one made errors, lynches would be based on guesses. After saying my Post 49 is what he's feeling about wagons, which is lies as he stated he was opposed to them earlier, he then says Im still likely to be scum... This is a huge OMGUS. Its also very arguable that SC was placing more pressure on M13 than I was at this stage, yet M13 then goes on to say that SC is still likely Townie and that his heart is in the right place? At this point, its 5 posts past where the RVS stage finished for me. He claims Im scum, at this point, because I applied pressure with my vote. Nonsense.

*****************************************************************************************

Post 60

Bandwagons, as Ive already stated are good for town, and in the random stage, they hardly gather momentum, unless, again as Ive already stated, a scumbag makes a complete fuck-up on their part.
Your also more wrong than right stating a townie led bandwagon is merely used for town to easy-lynch someone, unless the whole cast of the game is made up of noobs.
I find it hilarious that you already are discounting SC as scum, and me as town.
With so little info available already from those contributing, your statements are pretty darn "certain" right now.

FOS: millar13

I FOS M13 for his crap-logic.

Firestater if you actually go through what I said, you will not notice I I actually said; that out of those players that have actually played this game so far you have come off looking like you the player with the possible characteristics of scum. In terms of Strangecoug he is coming off as a generic town player, I have played with a number of times.
"Certain" i don't think is a word I have really placed on anyway so far of being scum. And I don't feel that way at all. Although, I do feel you

FOS

is a predicatable defensive mechanism

He then states that Im likely scum of the players participating in the game, when a few short posts earlier he says Im 50/50.
I made only 1 other post since he claimed this...

May I ask you a question, I cant be bothered going to check...
How many games have you played here/completed?

How he could determine I was more scum-like after asking him 1 question about games he's played on MS, and placing a FOS on him for his crap-logic is baffling. This is another OMGUS post by M13.
He has also clearly refused to tarnish SC with his accusations thus far, and seems certain that SC is Town. Again, with so little info available, he's making too bold statements at this stage.

*****************************************************************************************

Also in terms of bandwagons. I do agree that they can be good for the town.
However, not so in Day 1.
They can really be crucial, once a scum member is dead otherwise they are often scum controlled even though it seems as if the town is making the power play.

More crap-logic. How is a player to be lynched in D1 without a Bandwagon? They are more than crucial, they're essential!!
BW's on a lynched townie can also be led by townies. More crap-logic.

*****************************************************************************************

Sajin in Post 63 and Pacman in 67 (FOS's M13) pick up on M13's crap-logic, contradictory posts and scuminess up to this point.
SC in 69 warns M13 that he needs to watch what he's doing in his posts, and M13 posts...

I am not perfect, and so I make mistakes. Doesn't help that two of my fingers are broken. If I make mistakes, I will continue you to correct them.
Mistakes aren't scummy, they are just a human quality

No-one is perfect. But what does having 2 broken fingers have anything to do with what you wrote? Im not buying this an excuse for you typing wrong words. This is mere filler.
I further question this, as I found it a strange post, and again, didn't directly answer the questions asked of him.

So, 2 of your fingers are broken, and you cannot help making mistakes???

WHAT?

M13...

Basically if I make typing errors or, use the wrong word don't take it too mean something that it doesn't. Half full rather than half empty.

So if you wrote, "Im scum", and you came back half an hour later and told us it was a mistake, it should have read "Im town".. that were to allow you this based on the fact you've 2 broken fingers??? More rubbish and more nonsense.
I then vote M13 for his persistant crap-logic, nonsensical posts, filler and general rubbish posts.

You dont mistakenly write the wrong word, wrong letter... yes, not the wrong word.
Upgrading to...

VOTE: millar13

Again, pacman picks up on this...

Basically if I make typing errors or, use the wrong word don't take it too mean something that it doesn't. Half full rather than half empty.

Mistakes aren't scummy, they are just a human quality

This contradicts the principal principle of scumhunting "watch for scum slips (*cough*MISTAKES*cough*)".
If we applied your phrase, there would be no reasonable way to catch a scumbag.

*****************************************************************************************

At this point, I read back and seen that I had an agreement with sajin that I would not go further on M13...
So, I retracted my vote. If I left my vote there after making an agreement, it would have been inherently more scummy than removing it. M13 sees an opportunistic time to make this post...

Typing the wrong word is a scum-tell.
Well lah dee dah...I must be scum then.
Mhmmmm FireStarter you just more and more scummy, as you looking for the smallest of things to blow out of proportion, so you can "justify" your vote on me oncemore.
I'm not giving you the satifisfaction of voting for you yet though.

3 things here....
Great defense to previous accusations made...
He states I look more scummy now, when in fact all he's said throughout the game is that "I am likely scum", with no reasoning whatsoever, and trying to place pressure on me for retracting my vote. He then says he's not going to give me the satisfaction of voting for me?
Again, M13 does not want to be noticed by using his vote, he is still more worried about the way he'll look if he places his vote without actually having built a case, or indeed, pointing anything scummy out. He is clearly waiting for other to place a vote on me, in the hope they'll mistakenly see me scummy.
If M13 keeps screaming Im scum, he's hoping someone else will agree with him. We see later on that when someone else places a vote on me, he then places his.

*****************************************************************************************

SC in 77 places a Fos on me for quickly retracting a vote. And M13 states...

Good point considering, it has just been my name vote unvote, vote unvote. Zzzz

More filler, really says alot of the way M13 has been posting so far... Words without any substance.
Ghostwriter weighs in finally, picking up on M13's 2 broken fingers malarkey...

I don't like what you're doing here. The fact that you're typing, not just wrong word, but a scummy way of thinking, is what's the problem. And you try to chalk that up to broken fingers? No. Your words are typed reasonably well, as in they don't have many errors. That could be explained. Typing wrong words cannot. The brain chooses the word, not the fingers. You know what you'll type before your fingers do. That's biology. And then, when this is stated, you try to pass it off as FireStarter attempting to justify a vote on you. What about SC and pacman, who also find your choice of words to be not too townie?

GW states that SC & pacman picked up on M13's broken fingers post, but again, since the RVS, he only picks up on my post about it. This is a quickly becoming a continuing trend throughout the thread, ignoring other players with similar points to mine, while zeroing in on me.
M13 keeps saying the same thing....

SC looks town to me.
Whilst Pac doesn't give off anything to me.
My reason for Fire have already been given, but as yet I still don't actually have a vote out.

What reason has M13 got for seeing me as scum?
So far, he only has the quick unvote I made, which has been explained on numerous occasions.... NOTHING ELSE.
Again, its a fallacy for him to suggest he has a case on me. He's ignoring players who are similarly, if not more, applying pressure to M13.

*****************************************************************************************

At the moment I have only belive that these four players (including myself) have brought anything really solid to the game:
-Strangecoug
-Millar13
-Battousai
-FireStarter
the rest seem to be either Active Lurking, with the odd "I am still here post" or just off the radar completly. At the moment null tells is ultimatley all I have been given so far, and quite often in games it is only the null tells and little things that the mafia actually give away. Sometimes you have to be a little OTT and see the impossible as possible.

So, theres been 5 players considered active in the game, and he calls SC town, pacman as giving away nothing yet, and me as scum... YET, he clearly states he has only null tells to work with. He then says he has to be OTT sometimes to see the impossible. This is more rambling, and another contradiction of what he's been saying recently. Theres more flip-flopping with his thoughts than you'd find on a Brazilian beach!

*****************************************************************************************

A vote is sacred.
People who vote, unvote, vote and unvote can actually be most unhelpful.
Imagine you survive to day 3 and you in total have gone through this unvote vote stage, and have either
a) Only voted for a small number of people, over and over again
or
b) Voted for every single player
How you play the game, effects how people read you. If I am more than 60% sure someone is scum, then that is when I will give my vote.

Again, M13 spurts out more crap-logic. he's trying to justify him not voting as being unhelpful. This is not true.
Votes in posts give info, and leave a trail for others to follow afterwards. He then goes on to justify why he will later vote for me by saying if he's 60% sure, he'll place a vote. This, imo, is another contradiction to something he posted previously.

I won't confirm and actually place my vote, until I am sure I that the person I am voting for appears the most scum looking.

Does 60% constitute enough "Surety", especially the way M13 has been so cautious NOT to place a vote? IMO, No. In the above quote, it seems that M13 needs to be alot more surer than just 60%. Not only that, but he still has not made a case, the reason being is that he doesn't have one. He is merely playing a waiting game, for others to vote first.

*****************************************************************************************

I question M13 further about OTT & Null tells post.... He says...

In this game you have to be a little over the top...you need to blow the small clues out of proportion otherwise really you need to leave mafiascum and go back to playing cluedo with your kid sister.
If you notice I said the word "ULTIMATLEY all" which means the majority, but not every single one. Dont' try and twist my words against me, because it won't work.

Scum are the faction that need to blow the small details out of proprtion, not town. They are in the minority and need to blow the small details out of proportion. This is another factual error on M13's part. If town have a sound case, it will succeed, but they do not need to go OTT. And the words "Ultimately All" DOES mean all... END OF.

*****************************************************************************************

At this point, M13 is still refusing to vote, regardless of the amount of times he's called me scummy...

The problem with you....is without being rude "you don't seem to have the guts" to vote for me yet, even though you have in as many words confirmed you will put your vote back on me anyway.
I however, believe you look the most scummy so far. Slight difference.

He also says I dont have the guts to vote for him... After one of his most vocal traits in the game was the fact I voted, uvoted him already. This is clearly incitement, and I eventually placed the vote back onto him.


*****************************************************************************************

Post 96 sees me ask for a case from M13, one that I have not seen from him... He ignores this for the first time.

*****************************************************************************************

In Post 104, after I eventually voted M13 again, he gets the chance to say what he's been gunning to say....

As for you FireStarter, I want to know how many more times you will vote and unvote for me on Day 1...because its is just refreshing.

I informed M13 that I had no reason to unvote him now in Post 105...

I knew your vote would stay on me, from the first time you un-voted me. The needless uvotes in-between just shows me that you may just be a townie who doesn't actually have full confidence in his scum-hunting abilities. In fact the more I think about it, it isn't that your coming off scummy but more that you just aren't a very good townie.

Sigh... Yet again he decides to change his mind on me. And tries a "get under the skin" tactic. He also says that the Vote/unvote period in my posting is an indication Im town???? More gobbledy-gook from M13.

*****************************************************************************************

Isaac & Battousai, somehow find M13's case as the way to go.... But there actually wasn't a case provided.?
And in 114, M13 finally, after all his screaming about me being scum/town/scum, then town again....

Why haven't I voted yet...well I guess you can I was biding my time and now I think you certainly are scum. How you reacted to just myself pointing the finger was one thing, but now that two others are also pointing you have be cut right open.

Vote:Firestarter

This is another contradiction to a post M13 made shortly earlier when he said I was looking like a townie who coudn't scumhunt... We has seen 2 Votes placed on me, and low & behold, he goes and adds a 3rd. Again, Ill add that he made no case up to this point.

*****************************************************************************************

In Post 116, I again state my desire to see a case from M13 regarding me.
In 117, he refuses to meet my request, and instead asks me to go read back... I already knew the content of the thread, there was no case. Just fallacies based in the RVS, and my quick unvote after an agreement NOT to vote.
In 118, I again request M13 to post a case, in 1 post, clear & concise.
In Post 120, he tells me to go looking for a case against his co-accusers of me. No mentione of requesting me a case however.
In Post 121, Im getting highly irritated with M13's continued refusal to post a case, and demand he post one so I could refute his claims.
Korlash, in 122, insists that a case should be posted.
In 123, I again demand M13 to post a case.
In 126, M13 finally posts a case. Lots af accusations without reasoning, and after I pursued him with questions from his post, he kept refusing to answer them... he made general statements in his subsequent posts, but did NOT answer the questions.

*****************************************************************************************

M13, from his Post No. 5, had been calling me scum with no reasoning.
He posts are riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions, not to mention gibberish and nonsense at times.
He failed to use Towns most potent weapon during the day, His Vote, until he thought it safe to do so, after others voted before him.
When I retracted my vote, he seen an opportunity to attack, but even then before voting me, he called me town!
There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac and SC.
These I will look at later with great detail if I have the chance to.
But right now Millar13 needs to be lynched.
Whether its before me or after me, he needs to go.



Apologies for the long post, I did not want to leave out any details.

[Firestarter]

I do remember you accusing Isacc of being millar13's scumbuddy, and I've said several times that I'm not happy with some things I'm seeing out of the latter. What interactions between Isacc and me, however, are you referring to? I think this is the first time you've grouped the two of us together.

SC, do you have nothing to add from the case I just posted, other than worry about yourself?

There were some things I noticed, that I'd come back to later....
Right now, the case is on M13, he is top of the pile for me.

And @ M13...

Im not even going to write anything in response to your last post, its just ridiculous.
OF COURSE THE CASE IS BASED ON MY OPINION!!!!!
Did you have help for your case???

[Firestarter]

Gotta love the reactions from the 3 of you...
Instead of analysing the case, you come on here and try and verbally beat me up...
Best of luck with that

Anyways, Isaac, if Im around later on, Ill look into you with better detail.
As should any other townies, after reading my post, if I do indeed end up lynched.

At the moment, Im L-2, and Ive got my thoughts on M13 outta the way.
Its there in B&W.

BTW M13, town never self-votes...
But then again, you already knew that

[Firestarter]

@Pacman,

are you done with your "re-checking" yet?

[Firestarter]

What really happened was millar commented he didn't vote in the RVS, I voted him for it, Millar FOS'd me for voting him for it, SC asked why towards the FOS, and Millar explained. Millar never accuses SC of being scummy up to that point

What are you talking about?
He claims the following after SC asked him about it.

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

FOS:BATTUOSAI

for applying "tactics" in the random voting stage

And the thing wrong with that is?

I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P
so doing so was a scum tell

Read my quote again for clarity... The timeline is clear, I state that M13 says SC just gave off a scum-tell after SC asked him about it. NOT before it.
And why are you NOT addressing the real point of that post, that M13 ignored you in favour of SC?
Read it again.

**********

The first statement is out and out scummy considering M13 later states that my Post 49 is the first real sign of townieness from me which happened to be my first serious post of the game. He states he's still 50/50 on me, wouldn't town be 50/50 on anyone in game, especially after just coming out of the random stage? He then looks at lurkers, saying that scum may be contained within them, why not place a vote on one them to get them to post?

So are you saying your original vote on Millar, which you deem as adding light pressure, isn't serious?

I seen I could add some light pressure on M13 after his post, His reaction would only deem it serious.

**********

I FOS M13 for his crap-logic.

-In reference to bandwagons are not good for town in D1 by Millar.

You think Millar is suspicious because he has a different ideal than you? Why is this indictive of scum? From what I have read of Millar's posts, he feels D1 bandwagons are usually controlled by scum since there is so little information to go on.

I was suspicious about M13 saying that D1 BW's were dangerous for town.
Not his ideals.
The fact is that BW's bring about info, and we know info is good for town.
So he showed scuminess, yes.
Do you believe that D1 BW's are only controlled by scum Bat?

**********

He then states that Im likely scum of the players participating in the game, when a few short posts earlier he says Im 50/50.
I made only 1 other post since he claimed this...

No he said you were the most likely scum member at the moment. There is a big difference.

WRONG. He said I was 50/50.
Go check the posts please.

**********

SC, do you have nothing to add from the case I just posted, other than worry about yourself?

There were some things I noticed, that I'd come back to later....
Right now, the case is on M13, he is top of the pile for me.

So it is ok for you to skip questions, but for others it's scummy?

Also, the rest of your case does stand up a bit.

WOW, where were you when I needed the dig out, RE: questions not being answered!!

Ill get around to them, as I have done all game.

Also, did you post some critique on M13's case?
I might have missed it... Post number...?

[Firestarter]

M13...
RE: my 4 questions.

No. 1 & No. 2 are tied together.
You did not answer them.

No. 3..
"I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum"
Ive highlighted this for obvious reasons. You may have answered it, but it doesn't wash.

No. 4
I had to post the question several times, and the text below the first one had nothing to do with the question. Read it again.
The 2nd time I asked, I added extra text in.
You didn't answer it.

************

Also, have you no questions you'd like to ask yourself about the case I posted?
Are you NOT gonna refute anything at all in 'em?
Im happy to answer any and all queries you have.

[Firestarter]

Uh.. how am I ignoring you, was there a question or 2 I didn't answer?

Newsflash Firestarter: Effective ways of proving your innocence include defending yourself, working with your attackers and responding to their questions, and overall acting pro-town.

Ive defended myself... Ive responded to their questions, if I missed one, Ill gladly respond.

Things not in that list: making big cases on people who are suspicious of you, ignoring the interrogations of other players, continualy saying "be suspicious of those guys!"

Why not make a case on someone I find suspicious?
How else can I get my message across?
What interrogations have I ignored?
I have suspicions on others, yes.
Ive already given reasons why I found you suspicious, your 3rd post of the game, responded to in my 24th post.
As for SC, my suspicions were founded when I was putting together the case on M13.
I did not continually say "be suspicious of those guys!"
Feel free to post Post numbers to back that claim up.

[Firestarter]

Firestarter: I'm fairly certain Millar responded to all those questions in post 162. Didja read that one? Or did you skip that one too?

Funny guy, no.. really ya are

Ive stated I didn't skip any...
But you refuse to read my case on M13???

Only coz it suits ya not too!

[Firestarter]

Stupid acting like an idiot with posts like this

First of all... Do Not Abuse Me.
Im not here to be abused by anyone...

GOT IT?

And what you you mean you haven't skipped any? Go trrough pages 5-8 and you will see Isacc had questioned you a number of times, with no actual response.

Read Up.. ^^

[Firestarter]

Post 138. You are debating with Korlash for the most part.
You then go on with opinions that is aimed at town in general.

Post 161. What exactly are you asking me in 161, did I read... Yes, I did.

Ive stated I didn't skip any...

You've STATED!? OMG. Guys he

stated

it, so it MUST be the truth. Throw away all evidence to the contrary boys, because Firestarter

claims

he hasn't ignored any posts.

Aren't you contradicting yourself with the next quote of yours?

But you refuse to read my case on M13???

Only coz it suits ya not too!

I didn't "refuse to read your case on M13." I just don't need to spend a wall of text analyzing it in game, for logical reasons I already presented. Did you read those ones?

Logical reasons?? Why would you NOT read a case built on another player?
BTW, Town need to read these posts. End of.

I did not continually say "be suspicious of those guys!"

Oh really?
"As should any other townies, after reading my post, if I do indeed end up lynched." (referencing looking into me) post 180
"There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac and SC...But right now Millar13 needs to be lynched." post 170
"Honestly, town, you gotta be blind..
Not only are you sitting in the sidelines doing nothing, but your watching others make accusations that they have hardly followed up on." post 159

Ive referenced the post in my 180 already.
The 2nd one ive addressed.
Im making a statement to town in the 3rd one RE: My position nearing lynch.

Isaac, you need to calm down, I advise you to read the posts Ive made, particluarly the case on M13.
Whether you agree with it or not doesn't really matter.
Your tunnel vision is handicapping you.

[Firestarter]

Another fact that Firestarter needs to realize is:

If he flips town, this doesn't automatically mean that I will be lynched next. I don't quite understand this logic at all.

Maybe, maybe not.
But my flip will tell alot.
Whether its you or someone else wont concern me if Im lynched.
My thoughts on how I percieve the game are out there.

[Firestarter]

Man I'm almost ok with lynching one of you guys to slow the thread down a notch... ><

i seriously need to reread the entire Firestarter case because last time I checked in I didn't really think it looked all that impressive yet here it is... apparently catching on. I suppose My opinions at the time were more focused on Issac then Fire.

I do want to get a quick word in before I start my grueling process of trying to take this all in... Is Fire at L-2? has anyone asked him to claim or has a claim at all been covered? Did he claim already? I know I've only glanced at the new stuff recently but I don't remember seeing anyone even bring this matter up...

Korlash, Im at L-2

pacman checked in and said he wanted to recheck the case on M13 I posted prior to voting.

[Firestarter]

That wasn't abuse, I was just stating what you are doing...playing like an idiotic because your reasoning is idiotic. If i were to call you a mofo that would be abuse.

By read up, you mean you haven't skipped anything...then you are wrong....or should I say still wrong. Do I actually have to do it for you?

I was offended by what you said.

By read up, I mean read back up the thread, the post it concerns is above where you last posted.

Apology accepted...

[Firestarter]

Reading comprehension, millar fos's me for applying tactics, sc asks why is that suspicious, millar explains why it is a scumtell. Millar doesn't say SC commited the scumtell.

I dont agree...

I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P

so doing so was a scum tell

See the bolded part... That is suggesting that SC commited a scum-tell.


I guess we both suffer with the same affliction, eh Bat?
Your posts in isolation....
Post 1.

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

By your theory, this is tactical voting.
Post 4.

25– millar FOS's me for “applying tactics in RVS.”

I don't see the merit in this FOS. I wasn't applying tactics, I was just random voting him because he's helping his scum play by never voting in the RVS

Yet you deny it...

Personnally I do not BELIEVE D1 bandwagons are controlled by scum, but it is just my opinion, part of my mafia ideals. Now the key word in the whole thing is D1. He believes D1 bandwagons are controlled by scum, which could stem from personal experience, I do not know. You are suspicious of him for something he believes to be true.

As you are suspicious of me in my personal belief in Mafia.
I became suspicious of M13 for his part in this by exclusively saying that BW's in D1 are controlled by mafia.
I pointed out the fact that this is wrong. Which it is.

Scum on the retreat? Lurking back into the shadow at the first sign of attention.
Still very much 50/50 on you at the moment...as I'm not sure how that makes you look. But since we are still in the early stage of the day, and you are the only really the first person to stand up to the plate it could be a case that the real mafia are lurking in the wings.

This is M13's 8th post of the game.
The one you refer to is his 10th post. After the fact.

On the questions... I dont believe he answered them. He rambled, but he didn't answer them.
The Q's particularly relating to "Power Role"... He did not answer them.

The last part of your post I accept, RE: your stance being on firmly on me.

[Firestarter]

Part of a post by Isaac..

"Instead of analyzing the case? I'm not interested in your case on Millar, as I am not Millar and I am perfectly capable of analyzing him myself."

He did not read the case on M13.
I think its you who needs to slow down with the reading comprehension.

[Firestarter]

Firestarter- Why don't you do a simple name claim? That way if you have a power-role or a vanilla townie role, it won't be obvious.

Are you talking about the character name?

[Firestarter]

My name is

Vivian Kudo.

[Firestarter]

Make sense...i just don't really like it.

Is this another thing you "dont do" in addition to not random voting?

I was asked to claim, and have done so.

Im a Vanilla Townie

and Im off to bed.

Its almost 3am here.

If Im still around tomorrow, Ill catch up.

[Firestarter]

Saying your vanilla townie is this game, is like you have brown hair. It doesn't actually mean anything.

However, if you are a vanilla townie then you are the worst example and most scummy one I have ever...and I mean EVER come across

Saying Im townie means 2 things... Im townie or Im lying.
Of course it means something.

As for your 2nd statement, well, its only your opinion, and so far, i haven't valued that much.

[Firestarter]

SC, I had a feeling that either you or Isaac is a scumbuddy with M13.
I have not gone through the posts again, Ive posted and read a huge amount so far today, tbh, I dont have the will to go through those posts again right now.

Ill be back tomorrow, lynch-permitting of course, and Ill delve deeper into why I made those connections.

[Firestarter]

Vivian Kudo.
Vanilla Townie.

"Apparantly, shinichi has caused some sort of cofuffle, thats now involved me.

With the investigative skills Ive acquired from my spouse, its time to get to the bottom of this mess!"

[Firestarter]

Considering its is spelt:

-KAFUFFLE
-it is APPARENTLY

and the fact that the language is broken in places, I am willing to say that you used a minor characters name (who was a protagonist) and made up the role PM as well.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=CAFUFFLE
Look up the link please. And give it a break, will ya!!!
Is this an attempt to somehow get back at someone because your wording was off in places??? Unbelievable.
I missed a letter in a word? Big deal..

BTW, Im not permitted to directly quote a PM sent to me by the Mod, this is a ruling that if I went against it, I would be modkilled.

[Firestarter]

I dont even know why Im replying to you at this stage...

M13, you've cast your vote, others will decide my fate now, so enough with the kidology and semantics.

Your not helping yourself with these recent posts, especially if Im lynched.

[Firestarter]

Guys, I was not familiar with Case Closed Mafia.

And like in my previous game, War in Heaven II that finished, I done my homework on it before it started.

Ill post the link I seen Shinichi in.
Im sure you appreciate I did not want to post Gorrad's PM word for word.

Here is where I seen Shinichi being mentioned...

"Vivian, known in Japan as Yukiko Kudo (工藤 有希子 ,Kudō Yukiko?), is Shinichi's mother."

There is no mention of Vivian being a Master of disguise.
And as Im completely in the dark over the actual show, Ive never watched it, there is no-way to deduct that this is a skill she used from the PM I recieved.

And here is the link to the wiki page I referenced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ca ... characters

Scroll down about 4/5's of the page, and my character is under "Family."

I always check out the flavour of a game I play in if its a theme, to get a gist of what Im entering into.

Here is a link to my last game, War in heaven II, I use wiki references about the flavour in it, after studying what certain characters that were lynched, could do... This post is where I first reference Wiki pages. I do add more after this.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 97#1594897

Like I said, I didn't quote Gorrads PM word for word, I rather substituted as much words as I could without getting away from what it states.

In response to the words I used in the flavour claim post, "Investigative skills."
I deducted this from my PM... and without ruining the integrity of the game, Ill try to give as close as possible as to what it said...

"Utilise Skills obtained.... from spouse who is an author of certain types of books... "

Thats as close as I could possibly go.

And for the record guys, Jimmy is NOT mentioned in my PM.
He is referred to as "My son."
When I read the V.Kudo wiki page, Shinichi was the sons name I seen first.

[Firestarter]

Korlash, 253 explains it all.
Im not hiding anything.

I don't buy Firestarter, but the name claim has nothing to do with it. I agree that he shouldn't talk about it like there's nothing else to talk about, though. "I'm so and so, and I do such and such" would have be enough for me.

SC...
I was told I was so and so, I was not told I do such and such.
I was told I had a skill, an investigative skill learned from my spouse. But nothing more.
I was told my "Son" was up to no good.
I was told I have a vote.

Im resigned to being lynched, because tbh, I cant say anymore than what Ive said already. You will learn the truth when Im lynched.
Theres too much WIFOM for me to be allowed to live now, and NOT be lynched later.
I'd rather Town got on with scumhunting now.

Of the 12 playing, 8, including me are the only real active players, even then, pacman & sajin aren't contributing too much.

Of the posts out there by all however, and Im judging this on what I see in the posts, I'd consider the following.

Poss scum:
Isaac
Sajin
M13

Poss Town:
Korlash
Battousai
pacman

Middle of the road:
SC

Lurkers:
Ghostwriter, Dubya, Rage, afatchick.

Lists are in no particular order...
This is of course based on the battle between M13 and I.
Ive built a case on M13 already, you can check that for reference.
Isaac has made 17 posts I think.. and for all bar 2 (Confirmation & RV posts), he really only speaks about me. But his 3rd post came well into the game.
There are 10 other players he's hardly mentioned.
sajin looked ok early on, but the more I read his posts, the more I got a bad vibe from him.

Korlash, Battousai & Pacman have been the most consistent with their posts, and the most townlike at the moment imo.

SC.. I dont know.. Seemed to go from M13 to me, M13 and back to me again... It could be considered a scum gambit, voting and being suspicious of the 2 in the biggest battle so far, and waiting to see who loses.

Not alot to go from lurkers as is the norm.

[Firestarter]

I know whats coming Bat...

Hence my lists, whatever good they'll do.

[Firestarter]

Another list...

Post Count including this one.

Millar13 >> 76
Firestarter >> 66
StrangerCoug >> 26
Battousai >> 19
Isacc >> 18
Sajin >> 17
Korlash >> 14
Pacman281292 >> 7
Afatchic >> 5
GhostWriter >> 4
Rage >> 3
Dubya >> 1

[Firestarter]

SC, I get bad vibes from sajin, that is all atm.
And with you I have middle of the road. The reasons I stated were possibilities.

M13. If you still think Im pleaing with Town to keep me alive, then you need to read the posts and try and understand them before you post.
What am I trying to exaggerate exactly, again?
You seriously need to brush up on your English, your posts at times are quite confusing.

[Firestarter]

Its simple M13, some of your posts dont make sense. The grammer is off.
Its not a personal insult, its more likely someone will read something other than you post, as the case has been with several of your posts.


This is a recent example for me...

You clearly state Im making a plea of being town..

Don't exaggerate, it makes any plea that you may be town not something worth saving

You then say in the post previous to this one that Im NOT making a plea.
In this case, its not a matter of confusion, its a matter of contradiction.
There have been quite a few instances of this throughout the game that I brought up in my case on you.

[Firestarter]

This is D1, our best guess would only be a guess. There isn't a lot of informationt to go off of....

You know, M13 does make a good point that there are 2 weeks to the deadline.
Why not use them to pursue other avenues?
Most are now lynching me for being a claimed vanilla townie, this I understand perfectly well why its being done.

So why not now use the 2 weeks, or most of it, to gather more info by scumhunting?

Im happy to be lynched at the end of said period. 100%

And you have this post to back it up.

[Firestarter]

If you seriously think I would spend 2 weeks helping out town, as scum, you are seriously deluded.

I have more important things to be doing then wasting my, and Towns time doing something like that.

Its a suggestion, nothing more.
And I can categorically deny trying to save face.
The fact I claimed vanilla in D1 has its downfalls, as Im well aware.
This ultimatelt ends with me being lynched, and I am going to do nothing to stop that when the time comes.

What I do propose doing in this timeframe, is compiling a series of posts on every player. PBPA's of each one.

Now, this should not stop anyone else from doing so, but Im willing to help Town out as much as I can while Im still here.

With my fate accepted, and it is accepted by me...
I think utilising the next 2 weeks to gather info is a good thing.
I will be confirmed town after my lynch.

For example, your latest post, Isaac, is already one that I could use in compiling such PBPA's Ive mentioned.

The more time Town has to gather info, and by that, the more info town has, the better..

IMO, scum will want this day to end as quick as possible with me on the chopping block, and move onto D2 with the info gathered already, which, lets face it, is more or less only on M13 & I.

Why not use the time left in this day to gather info?
And Ill repeat this, I accept my fate at being lynched, and will not plea to be left alive.

[Firestarter]

If no-one thinks that leaving me alive until D1 expires, fair enough.

get it over with so. I wont push this any further.

[Firestarter]

get it over with so. I wont push this any further.

Isaac, you dont need to convince me, which imo, isn't what your trying to do with your recent posts.

[Firestarter]

@SC: Me for ad hominem? Quotes please? I'm pretty sure I was the one yelling at Firestarter for using ad hominem >.<

This stood out looking at your posts in isolation:

You.
Cannot.
Read.

Go.
To.
Kindergarten.

I can't blame you for getting frustrated, though.

Well that's hardly the worst thing I've read on this site... And if you can't blame him for being frustrated then I don't see how you can honestly accuse him of Ad Hominem...

I wouldn't like to be told to go back to kindergarten either. I am implying that there are other ways he could have gone about it, though.

SC, why are you picking out a point with Isaac, only to seem to agree with him afterwards?

[Firestarter]

Thats fair enough, but why bring it up in the first place?

[Firestarter]

Did you just ask why someone should bring up something they have a problem with?...

You know what I asked Korlash.

[Firestarter]

SC, I am resigned to being lynched, Ive mentioned it at least twice in the last few pages.

Ive also asked for town to not end the day right now, after my claim. Ive posted it already, you can look up what Ive suggested beforehand.

But it seems that no-one is going to post until the lurkers say something...
And my guess is that unless someone comes along with the same Townie traits shown by Lindisfarne, then Ill be lynched.

It seems that most are happy to not say anything until Im lynched, therefore minimising the chance they'll come across scummy.
Most of the discussion, if not all, has been on M13 & I.... and between M13 & I, hence the impending lynch.

[Firestarter]

The case most who have votes on me for, I have already refuted SC.

If only people would take the time to read and analyse it.

I get the distinct impression that the level of detail I included has put off certain players from doing so.

There's been a distinct cop-out by players in this game, who would rather read the less-detailed case by M13, and still in my opinion, a weak case that was well refuted, place their vote on me, and not bother to actually take in what Ive been saying.

The truth is, that M13 & I went head to head quite early, and the sole focus was on both of us... Nothing else worth mentioning really stood out.

At this point, I may well put it down to 2 stubborn townies battling it out, and the other players simply watching from the sidelines offering their "thoughts and votes" on proceedings.

If you want to see me defending myself, go back in time, and analyse what I wrote already.
Im not prepared to dredge through the game AGAIN to appease those who probably wont even bother reading it anyway.

[Firestarter]

I will comment on the game progression tomorrow evening all.
Right now, time does not allow me to.

[Firestarter]

Thoughts since my 2nd to last post...

Lindisfarne...

post 49 made me laugh. Firestarter is going on about how pressure on someone is good, and is a good tactic....and he then tells millar to calm down and unvotes him? Wow, way to nix your own logic there.

How is it nixing my own logic?
My understanding, at post 49, was that this was the end of the RVS for me.
M13 stated I was likely scum and SC was likely Town. Too early to tell if M13 is town, for me.

Ok, fire and stranger riding millar was working. he was breaking, but you guys took it a bit far. You were nitpicking over really inane things, like his wording.

You should have picked at his logic instead

, or forced more out of him. And that vote upgrade was just funky, fire. understandable from the perspective of putting pressure on him, but I hope you start picking more at his logic and less at the way he words his posts.

LF, can you point to the part in M13's logic, I or SC should have attacked, it seems you seen something?

A vote is sacred.
People who vote, unvote, vote and unvote can actually be most unhelpful.

I disagree. A vote is not sacred. Expect to see me put votes around often. Its all a part of the pressure game. I actually find it slightly scummy when people rarely vote at all, especially in the face of good evidence (granted, that is subjective). I find it akin to lurking, its like sitting on the sidelines.

This I agreed with and still do. Leaving a trail of thinking through votes is good for town to look back on.

We just found millar13's scumbuddy...

Wow. Instead of trying to properly defend yourself and refute his logic, you throw that out? Aww c'mon. (strike against fire

I admit this looks bad on my part, but Isaac just turns up after Ive tried to defend myself for so long, and imo, without as much as reading anything, he stated what others wrote and instantly placed his vote on me. The post he made this in was his 3rd of the game, the other 2 coming in the RVS. I got highly pissed off that if Isaac is town, he should have thought things over more before jumping on a BW. He did not come across as someone who thought about that instant vote, imo.

A lot of back and forth in this game, and I'm actually a bit torn. My PRIMARY concern right now is not firestarter. I'm actually more concerned about scum hiding in the shadows. There's so much spotlight on fire and millar this whole game, it would be easy for scum to just be quiet and let the day pan out.

Right now, this is exactly what I think is happening, hence my thinking that M13 may be town, and him & I are just banging our heads against a brick wall against each other.

And my guess is that unless someone comes along with the same Townie traits shown by Lindisfarne, then Ill be lynched.

Because I don't think fire is scum, he thinks im town. now THAT raises a few eyebrows in my book. It just smells scummy to me.

For alot of pages previous to you replacing in LF, Ive had to defend myself against a barrage, of what I consider to be crap, of attacks.
You came into the game, and took a good look back through the game and gave an assesment I'd attribute to townies. I didn't state you were townie or likely townie to me, just that your first real post was pro-town.

Play mafia more, you'll realize that all interpretations of actions in this game lead to WIFOM one way or another.
It's bad form to flat out say "that's WIFOM" as a defense, or as an attack on something. Guess what, in some roundabout way, everything can be looked at as WIFOM, every action in some respect.

This I agree with. Simply posting "Its WIFOM" is just not enough..

I would like you to pick a person who is most scummy to you right now, and explain WHY they are scummy.

This I will get back to later...

_____________________________

Sajin...

Your whole argument on policy lynches I completely disagree with. We can lynch off townies until lynch or lose (granted we do not know what day that is, but for game balance reasons I will assume we have 1 or 2 MLes to use).

Also, lynching off firestarter here will allow his flip to tell a lot. In fact I think its scummy wanting to keep him alive at this point.

This is something Ive seen from a few posters, and tbh, Ive not seen any valid reasons why this is good if I flip town. The fact is, that if you were basing this on me flipping town, Town will be one man down. Lynching someone one believes is town, as is the basis of this theory, is plain stupid.

3: His flip gives us more information regardless of what direction the flip is. Obviously it would help more if he is indeed scum.

Again...
finally...

2: The information gained would be the insight into his posts. Because he posted a lot I referred to a lot of information. Knowing the alignment behind 75 posts or whatever he is up to now in the thread adds up to a lot of stuff that can be dug through.

You can have insight into anyones posts while there alive also, it just takes someone to go back and analyse thoroughly.
This is more directed at Isaac, but nonetheless...

Also, lynching off firestarter here will allow his flip to tell a lot. In fact I think its scummy wanting to keep him alive at this point.

What the hell will his flip tell? Unless you're banking that whole comment on him being guaranteed scum, and then you can point a finger at whoever defended him (note: me). That tells you possible info on ONE person, if you kill him and he's scum. That is not telling a lot Sajin. Honestly, enlighten me, how will it tell a lot?

My thoughts exactly...

_____________________________

Korlash...

If we have already decided on a lynch posting actual suspicion lists could only help the mafia decide on who to kill and how to start the day off tomorrow. I'd rather go in blind tomorrow then give the mafia more of a chance to set things up.

The only real plus side is to get the suspicions of the person(s) who is(are) Nightkilled. However, seeing as how giving such a list will probably help, if not lead, to who is nightkilled, it seems pointless becuase him dying has the possibility of being manufactured precisesly on that list.

Why is posting a list helping mafia? WIFOM.
RE: the bolded part.. by your theory after a NK, why are you objecting to such lists if they "become obselete" in the next day?
Lists of value come from mis-lynched townies and NK'd townies moreso. They are confirmed tonwies.

Did you just ask why someone should bring up something they have a problem with?...

This is stretching, you go on to vote me after I told you so much.

Vote: Firestarter

He's fine with being lynched and is asking for more time to waste. Add to that his claim isn't exactly foolproof and how much his flip will give us kinda makes my vote a solid...

Skimming through the thread since I was last active, I would say that the time spent has been spent well. Alot more discussion has gone on, and what will my flip give you? Again!

How is the time wasted?

Because he asked a really dumb question and then responded with a vague inane answer when i questioned him about it. Neither one of them shows me he plans on using the extra time in a useful manner.

Bollox.... Dumb, inane, vague... That explains quite alot of players in this game, ya know...
That was a loaded question. You know it. My "Vague, Inane" answer as you put it, was enough for such a question.

mmm... Fishing for a role? What do you guess his role is?

Dude, it's not fishing when someone is at L-2. If anything I'll argue I was trying to save his life. Maybe if you try to keep the BS accusations to a minimum your posts wouldn't be so long

I understood completely why I was asked to roleclaim back then.
However, it has been completely dismissed by some trying to 2nd guess the mod.

Am I wrong or he isn't allowed to quote or fake quote the role pm?

No, he isn't allowed to 'quote' anything from the mod, fake or real. But saying "my flavor is yadda yadda" isn't quoting anything. And as long as he changes a word here or there to prevent posting it word for word, it should be ok. Although this is probabbly best answered by the MOD.

I did not want to get too close to my PM, because of Mod repercussions.
Ive explained why I posted what I posted, but again, some see it as scummy, by saying its... scummy.
In one hand, there are people calling me idiotic and dumb, also saying I need to go to kindergarden, and in the next piece, they're claiming Im some kind of smart scum for concocting a plan to roleclaim????
Which is it guys?

Ok. But, as Battou suggested earlier (though now he has already voted) we could just assume that Fire is gonna flip town and keep talking until the end of day. Then when he flips, we will have talked a lot more than up till now.

... What good is discussion based off an assumption? What if that assumption is incorrect? And of course if we all start assuming he flips town, we lose all the good scum tells of scum that knew he would have flipped town anyway, thus robbing town of one chance to actually find scum.

Is this directed at Bat or Alex? It was a reply to one of Alexhans posts.

The wagon has come to far to be stopped by "This might be a town/town argument!"

We still need Fire to flip, and we can go from that tomorrow.

Again, why the rush?
Again, why do you "need the flip"?
I re-iterate that discussion has moved along quite nicely in this D1 since I last posted. Im pretty certain that what has been talked about in that time will have bearing in later game, as will what happened previous to it.
Dismissing it out of hand is just... wrong.

Discussion is not always good. For one, any discussion bassed off an assumption (especially a false assumption) is probably bad.

I can tell you know that discussion based on my alignment is bad for town, by your theory of course. But lets not discuss that...
And discussion IS good, always, everytime....
In this game, the spotlight was only on M13 & I... how can discusiion after this be a bad thing?

_____________________________

Isaac...

@SC: Me for ad hominem? Quotes please? I'm pretty sure I was the one yelling at Firestarter for using ad hominem >.<

Please point this out.

Alexhans 345 is the best post of the game, he clearly read everything and summed it up better than I did possibly.
For those not wanting to be pro-town, namely you Isaac, and actually read the cases on me/M13, this is the short, better put version.
Your content so far has been nothing short of lurker-ish...
Im very much wanting to hear your thoughts after your re-read.

_____________________________

Battousai

I think we have waited long enough for the inactives to post/be replaced. The game is starting to die down which is worse.

Vote: Firestarter

At this point, the replacements requested that they be given time to post their thoughts, yet you place me at L-1.
Why... Afraid this lynch will fall through?
Or that, if something better came up, like turning focus onto someone who actually is scum being lynched would dent a scum-tastic opening to the game?
Again, the day is but young, and the willingness for certain players to end this game as quickly as possible, especially with insight from replacements not fully aired, is very anti-town imo.

THIS...

I think we have waited long enough for the inactives to post/be replaced. The game is starting to die down which is worse.

Vote: Firestarter

Wow... Usually what scum says when they don't know how to push a quicklynch when not every player is playing. I haven't posted my notes in 24 hs and you are already calling for a hammer? Aren't you a little bit interested in what I might have to say?

5 days is a long time to wait for a lynch. People get bored, interests go down, the game becomes less fun.

Town should do nothing else? How about analysing the replacements posts, or at least trying to gather more info?

_____________________________

Strangercoug...

I believe that makes it L-1. Firestarter, if you really want to play, then it's high time you did some scumhunting. Otherwise, self-hammer right now. I'm pretty sure you're scum, but I haven't forgotten millar13, and alexhans is somebody that I'm looking at too.

Your vote on me kinda confirms your thoughts SC.
From the exchange with M13 & I, you've flipped onto whichever was doing worst, while keeping your "options to lynch the other" open by keeping your eyes on M13.
I dont see why your watching Alexhans at this stage, is it because he's been defending me?
Could it be that he is scum, and by defending me, after my flip, he'll look pro-town?
At least post the suspicion you talk of.

Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.

I don't think two hours is a fair time limit. Upgrade to an

HoS: Firestarter

.

WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?
the only "case" you had on him was his not voting Millar...

FoS:StrangerCoug

Uh, hello?

Firestarter's mouth was not where his money was

. Don't you dare generalize my cases!

What do you mean my mouth wasn't where my money was SC?
I didn't make a pathetic attempt at threatening M13 or anything like that.
What did you mean?

millar13 is guilty of making slips early in the game and tried to defend them by saying his fingers were broken, which I don't buy.

Firestarter is guilty of several misrepresentations. For example, somehow in #159 he thinks that millar13 will be cleared in my mind if he gets lynched and flips town, which isn't true. (It will obviously be wrong that they were bussing, but the rest of my case on millar13 will remain valid.)

Huh????
I asked

YOU

about this. I did not state one way or the other what my thoughts would be on what you were thinking of SC. You still have not given your answer to this BTW.
This is my 159... Its pretty clear you've misinterpretd what I said...

@ Strangercoug

Largely millar13's case. Yes, I just accused him of bussing you (and vice versa ), but as I said, the case is good. I'm looking at #126 minus the first paragraph. Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately.

When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?

I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be the Spanish Inquisition?

I may not have put any suspicions about Firestarter in the form of a question lately, but what I don't like about him after I stopped asking questions is clear—does he really want to play or not? If he doesn't want to play, then I'm fine with him lynched; in fact, I told him to self-hammer if that's the case. If he DOES want to play, though, then he needs to wake up and do some decent scumhunting, not just sling mud every which way he pleases.

RE: the bolded part... LOL, just LOL. Try being me about 10 pages ago...
Its hardly the Spanish inquisition now, is it?
You think Im scum because Im resigned to being lynched?
You stopped asking questions because it looked very clearly that I would be lynched before the replacements came into the game. And Yes, I want to remain in the game. I may have been resigned to being lynched, but at no point did I ever want to leave the game. You can now drop that line of thinking.

@SC: I still don't follow your logic of bussing... You said it more than once throughout the game... Why not just say that one being scum doesn't rule the other out?

I thought I did so by denying that Firestarter flipping town would clear millar13 in my mind.

I may have missed this, but where did you deny this exactly?

I said I was confused about whether he wanted to or not, not that he necessarily didn't want to. His not caring about getting lynched sends a signal that he doesn't want to continue; that he's still pushing anybody sends a signal that he does want to continue. Which is it? All I'm getting from him anymore is that he's trying to sow the seeds of discord.

After I felt resigned to being lynched earlier, I clearly made it known that I wanted Town to keep this day going till the deadline was reached. I wanted the day to reach the deadline, 2 weeks from that point.
This is a clear indication of my want to stay in the game. Again, you can drop that line of thinking, the posts Ive made are there, you are simply ignoring them or you simply "missed" them. But I did not, once, say I wanted out of this game.

You called millar's case on Fire a good case but this is a "Very good case"?

It's subjective, really. I think millar13's remark is pretty damning toward you.

Isn't the following quote by M13 more or less the same?

However, if Firestarter is lynched

people

are saying that I flip scum.

To my knowledge only you, SC said this. Which makes M13 as wrong as alexhans.
Its not a case, its a poor attempt at reflecting questions.

Why would I put all this effort and try to defend things that Fire said and boost discussion against a lynch if I was scum?

This is the second time you've committed WIFOM, and that along with you

constantly saying one thing when the reality is another

is really getting on my nerves here.

What reality??? . Please explain the bolded.

You shouldn't be using WIFOM to prove your innocence anyway, but that's because WIFOM is an effed up mind game.

WIFOM, therefore, should rarely be used by the town as any form of strategy let alone a defense.

(I was about ready to say never, but then doc protections came to mind.

WIFOM, Im almost sure about (I would need to clarify this), has possibly been mentioned the most by you, SC.

2) So would you be ok with a millar lynch right now instead of Fire?

I'm actually starting to suspect you more than millar13, but I can still get behind lynching him at this point.

You've stated numerous times that M13 was "as" scummy as me...
And now your back to more unreasoned accusations, something which I recall vividly happening to me. Of course, your not the only one guilty of this in this game. Its becoming a trend with you, and I see it as some sort of defensive mechanism in truth. If someone gets to close to you, you try to fob them off by making swinging accusations and the likes. You seemed pre-occupied at one point in the case I made on M13, with yourself, rather than addressing the case I posted. You then go on to ask why I linked you to Isaac, which in truth, I did not do. I stated that you or Isaac could have been a scumbuddy with M13. This is taken directly from my case on M13, which you can locate easily by looking at my posts in isolation.

There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac and SC.

You follow this up by asking me about the "connection" between you & isaac, again showing too much defensiveness for my liking. Instead of loking into what I posted, your only thoughts were on yourself.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Strangercoug.

You have basically watched where the votes were going, who was losing, and hedged your bets by declaring both of us were scum. Not only that, but to maintain those thoughts, you claimed we were "bussing" each other.
Thats all angles covered, without really doing too much town-work. Then, when the replacements came in, you instantly FoS'd one of them for questioning you like it was "The Spanish Inquisition"... Seriously!

_____________________________

Alexhans...

Why does everybody say Fire insulted or was rude when millar wrote earlier:

In this game you have to be a little over the top...you need to blow the small clues out of proportion otherwise really you need to leave mafiascum and go back to playing cluedo with your kid sister.

Ok. Millar. It was all well until you made this comment. Just because you think you know doesn't necesarilly mean you're right. Say what you want but with respect to others please. I think personal attacks don't contribute at all to the game.

This is something everyone either didn't take up on, or ignored.

Let's get this going. Gonna try out a new playstyle here, so be prepared lol =P

Why should he feel that it was necessary to explain he would be changing his playstyle?

Good point.

Lets not check my meta, coz Im gonna play differently...

From what I see at this point, Firestarter and millar13 might as well be bussing each other

Bussing each other day 1???? Why do you see the need to do that?

This is you again trying to make both suspicious as if you liked to see one lynched today and the other tomorrow.

RE: the bolded part. My thoughts exactly.

_____________________________

Millar13...

What makes you assume that if Fire comes up town, that I am necessarily proven scum.

If he somehow flips town, it is down to his scumlike play rather than being my fault that I noticed he was scum.

Strangecoug is the only person with logic, as in many ways his idea of me and Firestarting bussing is the only point that actually sounds like it has any solid meaning to it.

It doesn't have to neccersary be right, to have strength to it.

RE: the 1st bolded part...
My scummy play? I think its noticeable that when SC attacked you first, you went after him, after that I attacked you, and its been head to head since.
You tunnelvisioned, like I did you. And since no-one else wanted to contribute, we were in the spotlight.
Re: the 2nd bolded part...
WTF!!! What do you mean by

"It doesn't necessarily have to be right, to have strength to it"

?
I dont want your thinking behind it, nor do I want your impressions of how scummy I am for asking it.
I simply want to know what you meant by it, give me an example of this.

There is a chance, and I think it is growing in likelihood that Firestarter and myself could both me townies, and that a wagon is rolling. Scum might actually be lurking or watching as the town implodes.

If this is "growing in likelihood M13, then why are you still voting me and not hunting scum?
I mean, how much more growing would it need before you consider doing any of the above?

In any case, I dont think me voting you is right as you remind me of the pig-headedness Ive shown in this game.
Ill admit Im guilty of tunnelvisioning you, while ignoring what others were doing... and not doing.

Firestarter can you let me else other than me who you think is scum. The introduciton of alexshans actually has me thinking a lot more that we might both be on the same team, just both sending out mixed messages

Gladly...
If Ive not made myself clear above, Strangercoug.

And for MOD, Ill re-post this at the bottom of this post.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Strangercoug

[Firestarter]

I have been fooled enough by fake tells to know this.

Please elaborate on this point.

[Firestarter]

Am I forbidden to have more than one suspect? Is my vote set in stone? Unless the answer to both of these questions is "yes", then I fail to understand what's wrong with what I'm doing.

I dont see a case from you on either player.
I think the pressure from alexhan has shown that your vote is not set in stone, but it took some convincing to move it.

One of us is apparently blind, because my case on him is not defending you and I can't find where he's doing so.

You seriously think Fire is scum? I don't.

Thats one example I found quickly, most of his earlier posts, to me, more or less sees the same things I seen in the case and posts against me.

At least post the suspicion you talk of.

I did already!

AH has made it clear in his previous posts that he was against my lynch, he believes me to be town, hence thinking that my lynch would be a smart lynch for scum.
And guess what, your using Wifom as leverage to place a FoS, in the quote below, that you've already stated you hate others doing, or to be more correct, town doing.
Your FoS, therefore, is unsupported by your own theory.

I'm on page 6 and already afraid that there is gonna be a smart myslinch regarding Fire.

Excuse me, but, uh... "smart mislynch"?

The only way I'm making sense of this is if you know Firestarter to be town, which is impossible in a day start unless you're scum.

FoS: alexhans

Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.

I don't think two hours is a fair time limit. Upgrade to an

HoS: Firestarter

.

WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?
the only "case" you had on him was his not voting Millar...

FoS:StrangerCoug

Uh, hello?

Firestarter's mouth was not where his money was

. Don't you dare generalize my cases!

What do you mean my mouth wasn't where my money was SC?
I didn't make a pathetic attempt at threatening M13 or anything like that.
What did you mean?

You were making a sufficiently big case by my judgment call to be voting millar13, yet you weren't.

Look at my posts in isolation...
I voted M13 in post 21.
7 posts later, I gave him that deadline.
This is NOT a true statement,

its lies.

When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?

What would you like me to elaborate on?

Now you clearly are not just a plain vanilla townie...that is more than clear from post 121. Clearly you are sitting on some sort of power position (I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum) otherwise you wouldn't be so frustrated and resorting to using offensive language. Why would someone with no real power feel the need to swear and your such horrible and disgusting I do not know.

This is an awfully weak attack, and I'm hearing WIFOM bells go off. The case itself is good, though.

You state this about M13's case on me.

You then state in 235 that my case was good against M13's. But again, you keep the eye on both of us with your "bussing theory."
But you do not slate any of my case like you did M13's.
Why vote for me then, when the logical thing, that I can see, is vote for M13?

You called millar's case on Fire a good case but this is a "Very good case"?

It's subjective, really. I think millar13's remark is pretty damning toward you.

Isn't the following quote by M13 more or less the same?

However, if Firestarter is lynched

people

are saying that I flip scum.

To my knowledge only you, SC said this. Which makes M13 as wrong as alexhans.
Its not a case, its a poor attempt at reflecting questions.

I don't recall anyone else saying they'd suspect millar13 after you flip scum either.

I think your missing the point of why I brought this up...
You make a point of claiming that M13's remark about AH is "pretty damning" (the post when AH exaggerated how many people M13 FoS'd in the game), yet M13 has done more or less the same with his exaggeration of how many people think he may be scum if I flip town, yet nothing??

People is plural, person is singular.

I dont think there's anything in either of them of note, but if you are going to pick up on one, you must pick up on the other.

Why would I put all this effort and try to defend things that Fire said and boost discussion against a lynch if I was scum?

This is the second time you've committed WIFOM, and that along with you

constantly saying one thing when the reality is another

is really getting on my nerves here.

What reality??? . Please explain the bolded.

You haven't answered this.

2) So would you be ok with a millar lynch right now instead of Fire?

I'm actually starting to suspect you more than millar13, but I can still get behind lynching him at this point.

I wasn't talking to you.

Yes, I know.

You then go on to ask why I linked you to Isaac, which in truth, I did not do.

There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac and SC.

You are contradicting yourself. I understand where you're getting the connection between millar13 and me, and I can also see how you're connecting millar13 with Isacc. The second quote, however, implies that the connection is a triangle, not a V.

Ok, communication is a factor here, if it was a triangle I'd have written..
There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13

,

Issac and SC.
Maybe it would have been clearer if I wrote...
There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac, M13 and SC.
Regardless, I did post this after you questioned the "connection" between you & Isaac in a later post. Post 236.

SC, I had a feeling that either you or Isaac is a scumbuddy with M13.

That point was cleared up on page 10.

[Firestarter]

1.

You surviving until endgame will definitly decrease our odds of winning. And no, that is not the only reason I want you lynched, but it is a good thing to remember. You're flip also has a good chance of turning up scum, and in the event of turning up town you have been the most centered person today, meaning you will likely have connections to every player, thus giving us that much more to work with.

2.

And it wasn't a loaded question, you could have easily corrected me.

1. Endgame?? We havent even lynched 1 person, yet your using WIFOM to argue against my "being in the game".
The simple fact is that the case built on me by M13 has now degenerated since I posted my most recent thoughts on the game, and since more input and analysing of the actual game thus far took place, even M13 has big doubts about the game panning out the way it was.
I refuted that case, and others have removed their votes from me.
Even players who at one stage were ignoring everything I posted.
Just saying

"Town need to know your flip"

, isn't a case... but it has been something you've said quite alot in this game.

2. This translates to you knowing it was a loaded question Im afraid...

I tell you what Korlash, you seem to think Im still scummy, I'd really like to hear it in one post please. Loud and clear.

[Firestarter]

I tell you what Korlash, you seem to think Im still scummy, I'd really like to hear it in one post please. Loud and clear.

Your claim is fucking Bullshit and you should be lynched for that and that alone. Everything else I am saying is just icing on the cake. Now lets see if I can remember what about your claim was the BS part... Um... I think it had something to do with using both english and japanese and then admitting to having looked your claim up on wikipedia... Although I could be getting my games mixed up. I'm in two anime revolving theme games and similar shit is happening in each one.

You claimed to be jimmy's mom, vanilla, and used the japanese name for Jimmy right?

This is your case? the claim?
Ok..
This has been answered in 2 posts, firstly, view me in isolation, and read post 59 with the flavour that was requested, and in 62 when I told you why I posted the aforementioned flavour in the way I did.

If you are town you need to be lynched now. Otherwise, if you survive until LYLO or any other endgame scenario, you will probably either be one of the top two candidates or the most likely cndidate by yourself. Either way you would then have a good chance of being the lynch, and if town, would lose us the game.

You are basing this ridiculous theory on me being scum right now, and continuing to be scum right the way through the game, presumably, if Im left alive that long after the aforementioned continuing scum-like actions.
You say that if I'm town, I need to die???? WTF?
Earlier in the game I was being battered by almost everyone in the game, so drawing connections will be quite easy if I flipped town, thats a BS reason, end of.
Your case on me seems to be with the claim Ive given, you've continually said I need to be lynched, culminating in "If I'm Town, you need to be lynched". THAT alone should see you higher in the spotlight, as we are still in a healthy position to catch scum before D1 ends. You want this day to end quicker than anyone else, and your reluctance to discuss, calling it anti-town along the way, makes you scummier too. SC has done this to a lesser extent than you, but has backed off after the posts Ive made, joined with most of the replacements posts. For these reasons then, I must...

UNVOTE: VOTE: Korlash.

[Firestarter]

Hi, I'm still here guys...

I find it weird that all this hate on Korlash has stayed solely on him. I mean, just about everything he has said that people are voting him for, I have already said. Notice I commented that Fire needs to die today, even if he is townie. Notice I never gave my scum list to Lin. That because I see no merit in it at this stage of the day.

I think the only reason some people (forgot who all is on the wagon right now) are voting Korlash is because he is being more outspoken about it, which, imo, is more townie.

And you aren't doing it because...?

[Firestarter]

Oh and @ People voting me and/or plan on voting me in the near future:

Answer me why me, as scum, would work this hard to get Fire, as town, lynched?

This reminds me of something...

Oh, yeah, how hard I worked to defend myself throughout the early stages of the game...

This is an extract of my post 69

te="Firestarter"]If you seriously think I would spend 2 weeks helping out town, as scum, you are seriously deluded.

Why is it any different now?
Scum want more than anything else to lynch a townie, correct?
I didn't say I wanted to hang around for 2 weeks just so I could lynch someone, I wanted to stick around and help town after my inevitable lynch, as at that time, I requested the deadline based on me being lynched. Go back to the time I posted that, I did want the deadline to be reached, I was expecting to be lynched... I had NO hidden agenda, why as scum, would I post more content if my lynch was inevitable???

Why the fuck is it any different now???
You wanted/want me lynched, I wanted to add content.

So? What, you answer something so it goes away? By that logic no one would ever be lynched as long as they answer stuff.

If it reads townie, then it might go away, however, it reading scummy will only add to whats been there already.
Sit back, read again, and work it out.
Your tunnel-visioning is getting ridiculous at this stage.

"View you in isolation"?

Yeah, every claim and every reason looks good when you take the reasponces and comments made by other people out of it.

OMFG...
I asked to view me in isolation as its much easier to find the posts, and it was the method I used to find my posts I spoke about.
Yet again, your twisting the context of my posts.
AND, if anyone wanted to see the build up, and/or posts after mine, thats very easy to do, Townies will do this anyway to see how the discussion went.. Do you seriously think I asked you or anyone else to view my posts in isolation hoping, just hoping that you all would NOT read the lead up, after-posts???
This is twisting, and stretching.

So your reasons for voting me are... A misrepresentation of what I said

What have I misreped you on... your theory that leaving me alive now till endgame sees Town lose???
I, along with others may I add, are not misreping you, its simply a stupid thing to say when no-one has been lynched yet, and while theres the chance that scum can still be caught D1.
Remember, your basing this on me being Town, saying Ive gotta die in D1....
If you seriously think Im Town, and your posts have me believing you do for one reason or another, why are the hell would you NOT want further discussion, or to lengthen out the day, or do anything pro-town?
I mean, after I flip town, my posts may become valuable.. shouldn't they?? I say yes, but to have only spoken about 1 other person, M13, for the most part, what are you trying to achieve???
Your trying too hard to have me back on the chopping block, because you think its good for town to lynch a town...
I dont agree with your logic, and I certainly do not agree with your pursuing of me while basically ignoring everything else...

And here's the kicker, i actually think you are scum anyways. I mean seriously, would I be arguing people will always find you suspicious if I thought you were town? I say this so no one ever makes the mistake of accusing me of calling town and saying lynch you anways.. I know someone was going to! Yeah, talking about you man *points finger randomly*... /paranoid look

Covering your ass, when you based your "lynch Firestarter, coz if he's town it will be good" theory.
No, just no.

[Firestarter]

Your quite right Korlash....
Clarification is good.

I think the only reason some people (forgot who all is on the wagon right now) are voting Korlash

is because he is being more outspoken about it

, which, imo, is more townie.

And you aren't doing it because...?

[Firestarter]

Scum want more than anything else to lynch a townie, correct?
I didn't say I wanted to hang around for 2 weeks just so I could lynch someone, I wanted to stick around and help town after my inevitable lynch, as at that time, I requested the deadline based on me being lynched. Go back to the time I posted that, I did want the deadline to be reached, I was expecting to be lynched... I had NO hidden agenda, why as scum, would I post more content if my lynch was inevitable???

To appear more townie so as not to get lynched? Is it possible you, as scum, thought if you dragged out the day and added some posts that you could save yourself from being lynched?

I imagine scum could apply that tactic. Yes.
Is this an actual belief you hold, Bat, in relation to my posts at that time?

And you aren't doing it because...?

?Doing what?

Um, lets see.. its bolded in my last post, and has something to do with being outspoken...

[Firestarter]

You've gone back to posting fluff. This is not something you want to do if you want to stay alive.

Oh really?
And when was the last time I posted fluff?
And why are you doing nothing else but posting fluff?

[Firestarter]

The main reason is because I haven't been all to active. The main reason is becausse.... FINALS! Right now, I'm working on a microeconomic analysis of Brazil. Once I get done with that I have to finish my paper on why should the United States establish a National Language. Then I have to finish my multi-state data network that utilzes frame-relay, ospf, and access lists for a made up company that stores data for companies in an off-site storage facility. Not to mention studying for the written finals themselves... Yeah, my plate is pretty full right now.

Did you make this known in an earlier post that your time was limited?
If so, I did not see it, and apologise wholeheartedly...
If you haven't, then I guess it could have been taken that your were not pursuing your idea's... whereas Korlash was, profusely.

When I saw votes coming on Korlash for something I also agree with, I had to post what I thought of it.

Are you reading the entire game, with your limited time?

[Firestarter]

No scum want to appear pro-town. saying "I've been helping out town for two weeks" is more likely done by scum then saying "If you are town you need to be lynched today" and whatever else people think I said that was scummy.

...and what else do you consider what you've posted as "and whatever else people think I said that was scummy."?

Dead scum often use the last of their days with WIFOM and mis-info.

I'm not trying to speculate on if you were doing that or not but if you are asking me why, that is one possibility.

You did speculate..

If it reads townie, then it might go away, however, it reading scummy will only add to whats been there already.
Sit back, read again, and work it out.
Your tunnel-visioning is getting ridiculous at this stage.

It's not a tunnel vision. I'm pushing your lynch but I am in no way ignoring anyone else. Although gratned my lack of activity does make my attacks against you stand out more. And because I have been pushing this recent discussion as useless I've most likely not been a part of most of it, which has the sideeffect of making my case look sort of tunneled but at the same time keeping me consistant with what I am pushing. I don't fault you for thinking I'm tunneled, but I'm not.

OK... thanks for making my point more... valid?

And it didn't read townie, it read scum pulling a fakeclaim off the wiki. The exact opposite of townie.

Again, I refer to me being called dumb, inane, etc, etc.. then clever-scum, and now supposedly dumb by giving out info on the roleclaim.
Its just not consistent, and your using either the best way it suits you to put more pressure on me.
So, again, which is it.. Am I stupid or clever?
BTW, Im not saying it's actually you who's called me dumb, etc, etc.. but it reads that way from your posting.

OMFG...
I asked to view me in isolation as its much easier to find the posts, and it was the method I used to find my posts I spoke about.
Yet again, your twisting the context of my posts.
AND, if anyone wanted to see the build up, and/or posts after mine, thats very easy to do, Townies will do this anyway to see how the discussion went.. Do you seriously think I asked you or anyone else to view my posts in isolation hoping, just hoping that you all would NOT read the lead up, after-posts???
This is twisting, and stretching.

It's nice that you strawman this point and avoid the actual reasons I posted in responce to you after it. it really go to show just how scummy you are with your vote against me.

Strawmanning? You gotta be kidding me....

What have I misreped you on... your theory that leaving me alive now till endgame sees Town lose???
I, along with others may I add, are not misreping you, its simply a stupid thing to say when no-one has been lynched yet, and while theres the chance that scum can still be caught D1.
Remember, your basing this on me being Town, saying Ive gotta die in D1....
If you seriously think Im Town, and your posts have me believing you do for one reason or another, why are the hell would you NOT want further discussion, or to lengthen out the day, or do anything pro-town?
I mean, after I flip town, my posts may become valuable.. shouldn't they?? I say yes, but to have only spoken about 1 other person, M13, for the most part, what are you trying to achieve???
Your trying too hard to have me back on the chopping block, because you think its good for town to lynch a town...
I dont agree with your logic, and I certainly do not agree with your pursuing of me while basically ignoring everything else...

... Well first things first if you had actually read my post instead of just strawmaning that last point and skipping the actual reasoning I posted afterward you would know what you had misrepped. And of course you now have a thirdmis-rep in this post as well.

What you are doing now is backtracking... your ploy to paint me as town that needs to die has lost backing, now your trying another, painting me as scum.

First things first, the mis-rep in this one.

Remember, your basing this on me being Town, saying Ive gotta die in D1....

No, I'm not. I already made this clear. I don't think you are town, I am not basing anything off you being town at all. I'm saying in the hypothetical situation in which you are town (last time I checked there are people in this thread who think you are town and so I have to argue this point in order to lynch you) You need to be lynched today, instead of waiting and being lynched some other day. WCS you are lynched endgame, in which if you are town we all lose.

No.. you did not make this clear. Your basis of lynching me, if you leave out everything that you agreed with SC on, which was later refuted succesfully, is the Roleclaim and lynching me as vanilla town, remember.. "Lets lynch FS, because we may hit a PR and then have FS losing the game for Town."

the other misreps are:
1) Saying I said "if I'm town, I need to die" when I said "If you are town you need to by lynched today"
2) Saying I was "Reluctance to discuss, calling it anti-town" implying I called discussion anti-town in and of itself when in reality I called specific discussion bad with the potential to be anti-town.

Your vote and continuation of backing up your vote only shows you have failed to both grasp my points AND even failed to actually read my posts, something no town should ever do against someone they not only think is scum but are currently voting.

1. Whats the difference between lynched and dying?
2. You wanted the day to end asap, dismissing further discussion. THIS is anti-town and scummy.

Covering your ass, when you based your "lynch Firestarter, coz if he's town it will be good" theory.
No, just no.

i don't need to cover my ass. What I am doing is for the benefit of the town as a whole, I'm like the hero of a movie who knows there's a plot to assassinate the president but no one believes me and everyone thinks my brother was a terorist and... wait... this is the plot of Eagle Eye... hmmm...

yeah, whatever...

?Doing what?

Ha ha ha... Ahhhh... Told ya Fire...

He is asking you why you haven't been "more outspoken about it" like I have. I being whatever it is I've been outspoken about today.

Bat admitted to not refreshing the page.
Also... outspoken about his beliefs, like you.

[Firestarter]

No.. you did not make this clear. Your basis of lynching me, if you leave out everything that you agreed with SC on, which was later refuted succesfully, is the Roleclaim and lynching me as vanilla town, remember.. "Lets lynch FS, because we may hit a PR and then have FS losing the game for Town."

You do have a point. My most recent stuff has been less about me thinking you are scummy and more about you needing to die regardless. This is because your wagon had lost some support, some people were calling you town, and that new guy said you looked sincere or whatever. I've been most concerned with trying to get your wagonback up to full speed and so I've been going after those thoughts and not the fact your claim is BS. Although granted i should have brought that up again earlier, for that it is my bad.

I think this is one of the biggest things I can highlight in your last post....

Your admittance to having me lynched by whatever method is necessary for you to garner support from.

After my claim, you went on a quest to have me lynched because if I'm vanilla town, and left alive, a PR might, just might be either mis-lynched or NK'd. At one point, I was resigned to being lynched, because this argument was presented by others, and at the time, some I thought more townie than others.
Now... we've had a lot of discussion about this since, and the fact there is a chance to lynch scum, which is what Town should be doing, you have gone on to rant about me being lynched since the replacements entered the fray with their views. Those same players, along with others who have dropped their votes along the way, have seen me more townish than I had been.
You also admitted to tunnelling me since thos same posts were posted.
Now you are saying I should be lynched because Im scum???
This is something scum would do, trying to mislynch by whatever means are possible.
And if you are town, then this is quite silly what you are trying to achieve, the most obvious reason being that you will be targetted if my lynch came about.

I dont think your silly, I think your being inherently scummy...
When I was on the chopping block, your posting was steady and deliberate, I feel.
Now that my lynch has become "less-inevitable" you are really trying to have it re-ignited, by whichever argument you deem necessary. Its become more desperate as time has passed, culminating in you wanting me lynched as town, and now as scum, fundamentally starting from very weak cases by M13, then SC.

[Firestarter]

M13's case wasn't weak...
Also, it is not scummy to try and get someone lynched by changing your method of attack to garner more support. He was trying to garner support from people that think you may be town, to lynch you. I don't recall him ever saying you are town or thinking you are town. Just saying IF you are town and IF you are left alive. I don't think he wavered on thinking you are scum, nor have I.

I believe M13's case is weak... as was SC's, as is Korlash's...
Who are you, to tell me otherwise??

____

Now, if Korlash believed me to be scum, why push a case based on me being town???

Surely, pushing a case on someone being scum would be the best option, no??

Bullshit.

He didn't have a case for me being scum, otherwise we'd have seen it first.
He's been trying to get me "policy lynched" for pages and pages now.
Again.. Bullshit.

[Firestarter]

As far as why ending the day is better then discussion right now, there have been a lot of reasons over the course of my argument. Some still apply, some have changed. But I still feel the day is fine to end right now as long as we lynch Fire and I do believe it SHOULD be done. (For those of you wanting examples of my reasons that have changed, take the replacement issue. I argued it would be easier to find them at night, obviously that is no longer a reason.)

Haven't you ever seen town accept their lynch? Scum would be more desperate to survive.

Yes, I have seen town accept their lynch. Almost as many times as I have seen scum accept it. Scum are more concerned with ending discussion then with surviving once they accept defeat. Town on the other hand, once accepting of their death, are more interested in grilling the people attacking them and getting their opinions heard. Fire gets points for both, but overall i find him to be more likely scum then town.

Your first point proves that you were wrong about eplacements being easier to find at night, yet you staunchly spoke of this many times in your case to see me lynched.

The 2nd one is stranger...

"Scum are more concerned with ending discussion than with surviving once they accept defeat"

Does this apply to me...??

Town on the other hand, once accepting of their death, are more interested in grilling the people attacking them and getting their opinions heard.

Does this apply to me..?

The answer to the first point is NO.
The answer to the second point is Yes.

Yet you say I get points for both.... How?
Did I end discussion after being resigned to being lynched?
Did I grill those attacking me and getting them to post?

_____________________

Now, unless I have not made myself clear, Ill repeat this for clarification...
At one stage in the game, almost anything I posted was being ignored or dismissed out of hand, this was because most players had a vote on me, I was L-1 at one stage.
And yes, I became resigned to being lynched.
But with the replacements coming into game, they've heartened me with their posts, and has re-ignited my want to remain in the game.
With the game still in D1, there is still a chance to find scum, rather than lynch a "resigned to being lynched vanilla townie", which was, what was happening at the time.
I was resigned to being lynched, but I never said I wanted to be out of the game.
Regarding the whole WIFOM issue if I was left alive...
At the beginning of this theory being introduced by Korlash and/or Bat, I seen the logic in it to some extent.
The basis of me being lynched was that I was claimed vanilla townie, and was the main push on me being lynched... Not that I was considered scum.

With the game still in D1, there is still a chance to find scum, rather than lynch a "resigned to being lynched vanilla townie", which was, what was happening at the time.

I wanted to help, at least in bringing out scum before being lynched, and SC's attacks on me after the replacements came in, looked really bad, he was pushing inconsistencies and lies, which has been now shot down.
I voted him for it, and he is still near the top of my pile.
Korlash has pushed my "being town needing to die" case, and has hit a brick wall.. Why? well, it should be evident...
Now he's calling me scum, and as far as I can see, he's using the roleclaim as the main point in his case, along with the ever more present Battousai. This Ive explained numerous times now, and should be easily referenced in my isolated posts.
Lets lynch him because he's town. Fail.
Lets lynch him because he's scum. Unbelievable.
*Me being scum based on the roleclaim, and future scenarios...
I dont think that lynching someone on future scenarios is a good thing, if it was, we'd kinda know how its gonna go from the outset, and not even bother taking part in the game... This is at the very least anti-town
He's already been shown to be wrong by saying replacements will be better found at night.. Thats aload of rubbish, it was just another reason to have my lynch pushed through quicker.

Korlash in the quoted parts of his posts atop of this post, back me up by his theory.
1. I did not want discussion to end after being resigned to being lynched.
2. I did attack/grill those wanting me lynched.

And as far as Bats play goes...
I dont like it one bit...
He seems to quote certain posts of mine, which have been discussed at certain points, and lets Korlash run with it, all by himself...
He then weighs in after being questioned about his activity, by me, that he has all sorts of stuff IRL to contend with, but at no point did he feel it a need to let the rest of us know this prior to being asked about it. We are not telepathic in this game, yet his post about being busy seems to attack my questioning of him.

Im now less sure about Korlash being scum, Battousai has come into my reckoning because of his playstyle.
This I will investigate into later.

[Firestarter]

Townie shouldn't be afraid to push a lynch on a person by themselves.

This is interesting in relation to the rest of this post... and to why I see Battousai as scum.

I don't vote in the random stage, but HIYA

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

Battousai's post is voting M13 for taking an anti-town policy.
He then states...

Unvote

my random vote.
25– millar FOS's me for “applying tactics in RVS.” I don't see the merit in this FOS. I wasn't applying tactics,

I was just random voting him because he's helping his scum play by never voting in the RVS

Note the contradiction... he

"random voted him for not voting"???

I FOS M13 for his crap-logic.

-In reference to bandwagons are not good for town in D1 by Millar.
You think Millar is suspicious because he has a different ideal than you? Why is this indicative of scum?

From what I have read of Millar's posts, he feels D1 bandwagons are usually controlled by scum since there is so little information to go on.

Note that Battousai just makes a general statement, and does not commit to one side or the other regarding BW's on D1.
Instead he questions me about M13's crap-logic saying BW's are only driven by scum.
If Battousai questions me and not M13, isn't it likely he agrees with M13's stance on D1 BW's? That they are only driven by scum?

I agreed that the other players should at least post on what’s been happening here before anything else happens...

UNVOTE: millar13

MAJOR FoS: millar13

Note how Battousai does not comment on my continued suspicions of M13, leaving a Major FoS on him. It would be anti-town of me, or anyone else for that matter, to place a vote and leave it there after I had an agreement with another player to not take further action.

The this much later on...

Personally I do not BELIEVE D1 bandwagons are controlled by scum, but it is just my opinion, part of my mafia ideals. Now the key word in the whole thing is D1. He believes D1 bandwagons are controlled by scum, which could stem from personal experience, I do not know. You are suspicious of him for something he believes to be true.

Battousai in this post, agrees with my belief of D1 BW's, yet again he attacks me for being suspicious of M13's beliefs that aren't just in contradiction of my beliefs, but also his. He is trying to turn this debate on D1' BW's into a “personal mafia ideals" argument. The crux of this is clear in-game however, and that is to separate Pro-town behaviour and anti-town behaviour, scum obviously have different "Mafia ideals" to town, and a lot of the time, causing confusion is key. Battousai's logic is baffling at this stage, he appears to add more pressure to my lynching rather than focusing on scummy-behaviour that he admittedly does not agree with.
And again, its very tunnelling on me, considering the amount of posts that are made between most of Battousai's posts. He is ignoring everything else, while singling out me with his illogical behaviour/posts.

This taken from Battousai's 182...

Also, the rest of your case does stand up a bit.

He address's 5 points in my case on M13, in which I posted a lot of content.
Yet he merely dismisses it as "Not standing up a bit"... That’s a horrible way of dismissing a case, unlike the effort I put in refuting M13's and SC's cases. This is another anti-town statement imo. Instead of pointing out the flaws, he makes a generic statement on my case, you simply have to do more than this.

Also, did you post some critique on M13's case?

I did not post a critique of Millar's case.

The reason is because it was not directed at me,

and my vote is on you, so I have already have my stance on the subjected planted firmly in.

Yet he dismisses my case on M13, which in fact, has also got nothing to do with him {Rubbish reason not to read someone’s case, and anti-town}. Another inconsistency on Battousai's part.

Firestarter- "Logical reasons?? Why would you NOT read a case built on another player?
BTW, Town need to read these posts. End of."
Reading comprehension. You need to slow down and read everything correctly before posting. He didn't say he didn't read the case, but rather wouldn't analyze it the way you presented it (aka wall of text).

Battousai, not for the first time, calls me out on supposed "reading comprehension" or the lack of. The debate at this time was who started with the serious posts after the D1 RVS, then M13's case??. This has been discussed to death, and Battousai uses this as another "attack" or to add "pressure".

Other people claimed my vote was serious, but it was just random voting. I had a reason for it, but I wasn't trying to achieve anything from it.

Again, another contradiction here, Battousai says other claimed his vote was serious, he says it was random, but then says he had reason for it???

Firestarter concerning post 170:

The first serious post belongs to Battousai, 2nd belongs to millar13 and the 3rd belongs to Strangercoug.
millar13 overlooks Battousai's original post as the first serious post of the game, but accuses SC of this exclaiming it was a scum-tell. This is the first falsity. Why was Battousai's post overlooked in favour of SC's? Distancing/bussing of either comes to mind.

That is what you wrote, but what really happened was millar commented he didn't vote in the RVS, I voted him for it, Millar FOS'd me for voting him for it, SC asked why towards the FOS, and Millar explained. Millar never accuses SC of being scummy up to that point.... Which then lessens your case against him until you remark about millar saying rushing to a vote is bad, when a FOS is better.

Note that Battousai did not dispute my post here, he merely exclaims "That is what you wrote".. usually when someone posts this line, they follow it up with what actually happened. Battousai stated that what I posted, was in actual fact, what happened. M13 stating he doesn't vote in the RVS, is not the "first serious post of the game". Battousai's is.

Unvote

1. Since Firestarter claimed Vanilla, it would be best just to lynch him. If he is town, then the scum know he is not a power role, which then give them a better chance of hitting one.

2. While we wait, I think we should play the rest of today under the assumption we lynch Firestarter and he turned up vanilla townie. I will post tomorrow as it is getting late and I gotta get up early for my first class tomorrow.

1. Battousai says I’m best to be lynched, why doesn't he vote me/leave his vote on me then.
2. Again, why isn't your vote on me after you posted this?
And what else were you gonna do why you had me down as "The D1 lynch"? Because there is nothing else in what you've posted, regarding other players.
This is very non-committal, and awaiting thoughts/votes from other players before voting me.
I refer to this quote of Battousai's....

Townie shouldn't be afraid to push a lynch on a person by themselves.

My flavour is in the English version ala Jimmy over Shinichi. Looking at Firestarter's flavour, he uses the English version for the role name, but switches over to the Japanese version for the flavour...

Again, Battousai spots something that may be worrying from a townie pov, but just posts this, and does not back it up with a vote.
Instead, he lets someone else take up the mantle, in this instance, Korlash.
I refer to this quote of Battousai's....

Townie shouldn't be afraid to push a lynch on a person by themselves.

Regardless of whether your claim makes since, I will vote you. Why? You claimed vanilla townie. Whenever someone on the chopping blocks claims that on D1, my policy is to lynch them. The reason is because the scum now know Firestarter isn't a power role, which increases their chance to NK a power role if we lynch/out another role.

Again, no vote.....
I refer to this quote of Battousai's....

Townie shouldn't be afraid to push a lynch on a person by themselves.

We need to lynch Firestarter...... he claimed vanilla.

Again, no vote.....
I refer to this quote of Battousai's....

Townie shouldn't be afraid to push a lynch on a person by themselves.

This is D1, our best guess would only be a guess. There isn't a lot of information o go off of.

If we choose not to lynch Firestarter and say run up a wagon on millar, we could possibly out a power role or he'll claim vanilla. We then would probably lynch one of the two claimed vanilla players.
If there are 3 scum and both firestarter and millar are vanilla, that means when it comes to night the scum have a 1:7 chance of hitting a power role. It is best to lynch the Firestarter because it lessens the chance from 1:8 to 1:7 for the scum to find and kill a power role before they get to use their ability or if we run up a wagon on a power role, it almost guarantees their death unless there is a protective role. IMO, D1 you lynch the claimed vanilla.
Plus, more than likely we will end up lynching him later...

Clearly, Battousai wants me lynched because I claimed vanilla townie.
Posts stats about scum not hitting a PR, if I’m lynched, but neglects to post the alternative, that if we catch scum in D1, it lessens the scums numbers, and preserves a townie, which is what this lynching assumption is based off of.
The bolded part of his quote above is very interesting. He wants to proceed with my lynch without anything else, and based on his guess.
But yet gain, no vote.....
I refer to this quote of Battousai's....

Townie shouldn't be afraid to push a lynch on a person by themselves.

His flip gives us more information regardless of what direction the flip is. Obviously it would help more if he is indeed scum.

You didn't answer the question. The question was what information would be gained, not what flip would give us information.

This question has been asked many many times, M13, Korlash, Sc and Battousai clearly cannot back this up as to why its a good idea.
Yet Battousai pursues this further on another player?

I think we have waited long enough for the inactives to post/be replaced. The game is starting to die down which is worse.

Vote: Firestarter

Finally, Battousai places his vote on me, after all the non-committal nonsense beforehand, he sees my lynch dying down, and feels it necessary to speed things up now.
The fact he does not mention anything about the replacements/the replacements posts/thoughts is a reflection on the way he's tunnelled on me for the most part.

5 days is a long time to wait for a lynch. People get bored, interests go down, the game becomes less fun.

Battousai's input/posts go along way to adding to the said boredom/dying down interest/less fun.
After posting that he would treat me as being lynched, and to play the game as if I were lynched, he's done nothing of the sort. Nothing but continue with his tunnelling, and make infrequent non-committal posts for others to take up on.

Sajin- What are you suspicious of SC for? Don't say "I agree with Firestarter."

And why not say he agrees with Firestarter?
Korlash agreed with you?
You cannot put sanctions on players in this way.

The 2 main points I though firestarter had:
The quote [SC] saying no one suspected millar depending on firestarters flip. As I recall it was [SC] who theorized them as scumbuddys.

Also when [SC] pointed out the supposed contradiction: There was no contradiction.

I think [SC is] misrepresenting firestarter with the quotes provided.

Compare those to the case on firestarter brought by millar13 and others. You had your vote on firestarter at one point, IIRC. What has firestarter done to lessen your suspicion on him or do you think that what you have listed above is stronger than the one on Firestarter?

Clearly Battousai does not like the direction my supposed lynch is taking at this point.
With fresh impetus from the replacements, and previous cases on me being shot down, he then starts to question those taking their votes from me, without actually adding anything as to why I should be lynched.
In Korlash' case, he changed his method of attack once one let him down, but Battousai isn't doing anything to pressure my lynch, he's merely trying to pressure those who have unvoted me.

How?

he had 2 votes I had a fos. The person under pressure he referred to was likely himself, Freudian slip.

This is crap. I know Firestarter's case on me to be serious, but your case on me is a joke and can be summed up as you telling me "Yeah, whatever, scaredy cat." If you're going to vote me, at least present me with something worth defending like Firestarter did. Don't be skimping on scumhunting to see what you can get away with.

Unvote: alexhans
Vote: Sajin

sorry, I prefer shorter posts. I still explain stuff. Just because I don't write mafia essays does not make my few points less valid.

Yes, yes it does. It does if your points are vague.

What points are vague?
Again, pressurising those who believe scum lie elsewhere.

I find it weird that all this hate on Korlash has stayed solely on him. I mean, just about everything he has said that people are voting him for, I have already said. Notice I commented that Fire needs to die today, even if he is townie. Notice I never gave my scum list to Lin. That because I see no merit in it at this stage of the day.
I think the only reason some people (forgot who all is on the wagon right now) are voting Korlash is because he is being more outspoken about it, which, imo, is more townie.

This is the first post after Korlash & I debated for pages that I found something amiss with Battousai.
He indeed stated more or less what Korlash had been pining about for so long, but was only sowing the seeds, for someone else to post about.
Its at this point I was less sure about Korlash, hence this case.

Scum want more than anything else to lynch a townie, correct?
I didn't say I wanted to hang around for 2 weeks just so I could lynch someone, I wanted to stick around and help town after my inevitable lynch, as at that time, I requested the deadline based on me being lynched. Go back to the time I posted that, I did want the deadline to be reached, I was expecting to be lynched... I had NO hidden agenda, why as scum, would I post more content if my lynch was inevitable???

To appear more townie so as not to get lynched? Is it possible you, as scum, thought if you dragged out the day and added some posts that you could save yourself from being lynched?

Again, Battousai doesn't commit to anything here, he is merely making generic statements that may be true, but he doesn't try to back them up.
The fact he ignored Korlash similar post....

Oh and @ People voting me and/or plan on voting me in the near future:

Answer me why me, as scum, would work this hard to get Fire, as town, lynched?

Is another example of his tunnelling and scumminess.

The main reason is because I haven't been all to active. The main reason is because.... FINALS........

Having being called out on his infrequent posting by me, he comes across as attacking in his post about doing finals...
If your busy, that’s fair enough, but why did you only feel the need to post this now? After being called out on it?

M13's case wasn't weak...

Also, it is not scummy to try and get someone lynched by changing your method of attack to garner more support.

M13's case was weak, imo.
Battousai states, in so many words, that he's happy about the way Korlash is going about trying to get me lynched. Whether I’m town or scum.
For me, either both or one of them know my alignment, the push on me being lynched cannot be solely town driven, imho.
It seems to be without consideration of what everyone else has posted, and that is anti-town in my book. Everyday.

Right now its time to..

UNVOTE

...

What I’ve posted above gives me greater belief that Battousai is more scummier than Korlash.
Both could be, but I’m not sure with that.
Battousai is the catalyst for Korlash's attacks, and Battousai simply isn't doing enough in-game.
He's been happy for others to post cases, and attack after he has made his infrequent, non-committal posts here and there...

VOTE: Battousai

[Firestarter]

1. And if you think Battousai's random vote is scummy, then why didn't you vote him the first time it was brought up?

2. And while I'm questioning you, where is your response to the last sentence of #442?

1. I was otherwise engaged with the now missing M13...
2. I did not consider it "as" scummy by itself.

Now..

Your thoughts on Battousai and my case on him, SC...

[Firestarter]

EBWOP

1. And if you think Battousai's random vote is scummy, then why didn't you vote him the first time it was brought up?

2. And while I'm questioning you, where is your response to the last sentence of #442?

1. I was otherwise engaged with the now missing M13... I did not consider it "as" scummy by itself.

2. You in isolation... 56, 59, 60... BTW.

Now..

Your thoughts on Battousai and my case on him, SC...

Also, calling me out for fluff, is hilarious.
Is this the level of scumhunting we should expect from you SC?

Also, so it doesn't get lost..
Your thoughts on Battousai and my case on him, SC...

[Firestarter]

I have to defend Kairyuu here, as I have been out for the same period of time and for the same reasons (prom yay!), and you guys have posted such an utterly ridiculous Wall-o-text frenzy that it's nearly impossible to keep up. I am a pretty heavy poster at times and I even think it's getting out of hand with the super-massive overly-complicated posts.

What does it have to do with giving reasons for something that he supposedly already knows or otherwise wouldn't have stated? What if I say you are scum (matter of factly) for so many reasons and don't back them up...

This is true...
Kairyuu says he went through and seen alot of reasons to find Alexhan scummy, then voted him.

When questioned on this, he said he cant remember, and that there's too much text to get through.
Too much text to get through in an hour Im fine with, but to stick a vote down without reasoning and without being able to back it up doesn't add up.

[Firestarter]

Guys, I haven't been at my PC since yesterday, and have only looked at this page briefly.

If there's anything outstanding, I wont be able to answer/post thoughts until tomorrow.

[Firestarter]

V/LA till Sunday guys.

[Firestarter]

Ok, 5 votes on me since I last posted....

Right, with deadline so close, my lynch is now inevitable.

Of the 5 with votes on me, Korlash seemed more townie than the others in the discussions between us.
He has made the most sense in his posts, and I think he's more townlike than the others.
Korlash.... only for the tunnelling, eh!!!

Battousai, well Ive stated what I thought of him, and still hold the opinion he's scum.
The other trio.. Millar13, Kairyuu, StrangerCoug, well all 3 of them called me townie right before I stopped posting, yet on further discussion, they've thrown their votes on me, be it for convenience or otherwise..

Alexhans made alot of sense with seeing my posts as I wrote them, and actually helped me in the middle part of this day in stopping my lynch.
Staunch defence could mean 2 things, either he firmly believed me to be town, or he's scum knowing that Ill be lynched regardless of any defences put up.
More town than scum imo.

With so many players linked to me, your gonna find it hard to flush out scum next day, ya know, the one where Bat & Korlash said "my links" would help out after Ive been lynched...
Well, Im invariably "linked" to everyone, congratulations.
But if the day ended 2 weeks ago, there would be a hell of alot less info for town to work on.. so Im glad the D1 deadline was met for that.

Anyway... Shinichi or Jimmy. lol.. good spot for you scum-hunters, or downright scum-merchants!!
The funny thing is, some posters called me dumb at one point in the game, and then called me clever scum for using such an "elaborate" backtrack by reffering to wiki as the source of how I came across Shinichi, not Jimmy...
No-one did ever answer that, did they?

M13.. where have you gone???????
Your case on me died, as did SC's, yet your nowhere to be seen???
Is it that others suceeded where you failed?
Opportunistic?
..and distancing from me with your all too infrequent posts saying you "have a feeling I could be town", but keeping your vote on me???

Just take a look at the content Ive posted since I became resigned to being lynched, does anyone seriously, playing as scum, post that much content???
Or try to scumhunt with rational like I did?

I didn't just randomly throw out votes, I made cases, and voted on my beliefs.

Town, take a look in D1 at those who basically tried to rubbish all I posted in this game, tried to refure everything I said, basically, look at those who saw an opportunity to lynch town in D1, and those who tried to distance from me at some point.

I dont expect to make another post here before deadline, so good luck town!!

[Firestarter]

You guys will have to forgive me and trust me on this:

Huge fight with my parents. HUGE. Won't have time to post before deadline.

My thoughts have changed a bit (sorta), but I can't really make a good analysis.

Firestarter is the only reasonable lynch by deadline however.

Vote: Firestarter

Just.. lol