Mini 788 - Fantasy Mafia [OVER]

[Empking]

Am I the only one who wants to lynch Verkozen?

Vote: Ort

for vote hopping.

[Empking]

because someone being scum is usually a good indication that you should vote them?

Can you give us a reason for him being scum?

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote; Mix

Wants a QL but won't come out and say it and isn't obv town.

[Empking]

Uunvote

Vote: Goat

Looks like bandwagon jumping for a bad reasons.

[Empking]

Uunvote

Vote: Goat

Looks like bandwagon jumping for a bad reasons.

Predictable. Feel free to refute my reasoning if you believe it to be bad.

Being hypocritical is a character trait, not a scum tell.

[Empking]

Uunvote

Vote: Goat

Looks like bandwagon jumping for a bad reasons.

Predictable. Feel free to refute my reasoning if you believe it to be bad.

Being hypocritical is a character trait, not a scum tell.

It's a character trait, alright...a character trait of people who have the alignment: Scum.

I'll admit, hypocrisy is not the biggest tell in the book, but it can certainly be reflective of scum. Townies act in a way they deem to benefit the town. So they have little reason to accuse others of being scum for acting in that same manner (a manner they consider pro-town). On the other hand, scum are acting to benefit their nefarious ends, and will sometimes demonstrate hypocrisy in attacking something that they themselves are guilty of, for a variety of reasons (as a reason to join a wagon, because they weren't at their "towniest" at some point).

I'm curious, though. Why do you say it's a character trait? Do some people just have the "hypocrisy gene" and others don't?

I can see your point.

Unvote

I don't think its down to genes though.

[Empking]

KMD: Why are you voting Andy?

[Empking]

Anyone else think Andy and Goat are part of the scum team?

[Empking]

SN: Do you have any games to support your meta claim?

[Empking]

Mix, I have nothing more on Goat than his interactions with Andy and his actions being weird. Star is mostly gut.

Why the avatar?

Who's scummier Andy or Goat?

[Empking]

Alright, I am getting caught up. I think it would be beneficial, probably day 2 or 3 (some time later on) if we did a mass flavor claim. Anyone agree? Disagree?

I will post sometime later on though.

I disagree.

[Empking]

Why?

I have little problem with the idea in principle, I don't see any punisher roles being based on flavour

I don't think we should make descisions now when we can make them later.

[Empking]

Vote; Sytarbuck

- Speculation.

[Empking]

Mod: VC, please

OP: I'm not banswagoning.

[Empking]

Vote; Starbuck

- Speculation.

Why in this post (post 188) and not post 174?

It looked scummier when I came back to it.

[Empking]

Mod: VC?

[Empking]

Goat: Second from first reason why you're voting KMD?

[Empking]

Dizzy: Thoughts on Star?

[Empking]

Ort: You think cases are scummy if they don't include scum buddies?

[Empking]

Unvote

, I did that once. Mafia 89 (I think) modded by Phate.

I'm interested to see your cases on Emp, Ort, and Star.

Vote Empking

Meta. That's all I'm going to say, but the guy is scum.

Why aren't you saying anything other than "Meta"?

[Empking]

Unvote

, I did that once. Mafia 89 (I think) modded by Phate.

I'm interested to see your cases on Emp, Ort, and Star.

Vote Empking

Meta. That's all I'm going to say, but the guy is scum.

Why aren't you saying anything other than "Meta"?

Why don't you ever say anything other than "bandwagoning" or "active lurking" or whatever else?

I have a meta tell on you and I'd like to keep it to myself before you catch on.

The problem is that the meta is wrong.

[Empking]

Unvote

, I did that once. Mafia 89 (I think) modded by Phate.

I'm interested to see your cases on Emp, Ort, and Star.

Vote Empking

Meta. That's all I'm going to say, but the guy is scum.

Why aren't you saying anything other than "Meta"?

Why don't you ever say anything other than "bandwagoning" or "active lurking" or whatever else?

I have a meta tell on you and I'd like to keep it to myself before you catch on.

The problem is that the meta is wrong.

Not if you are scum.

And I'm not scum.

Can somebody ask him what the meta is?
KMD: Do you remember that this game is an island?

[Empking]

Unvote

, I did that once. Mafia 89 (I think) modded by Phate.

I'm interested to see your cases on Emp, Ort, and Star.

Vote Empking

Meta. That's all I'm going to say, but the guy is scum.

Why aren't you saying anything other than "Meta"?

Why don't you ever say anything other than "bandwagoning" or "active lurking" or whatever else?

I have a meta tell on you and I'd like to keep it to myself before you catch on.

The problem is that the meta is wrong.

Not if you are scum.

And I'm not scum.

Can somebody ask him what the meta is?
KMD: Do you remember that this game is an island?

And what would you say if you were scum? "Damn, good game"? I don't think so.

It's an island, but I remember things that happened before we came to this island.

Yes but you shouldn't keep it to yourself in order to benefit yourself after we leave the island.

[Empking]

OP: Because I'm town.

OP: I think my posts made it very clear that my point on the island wasn't about not using meta.

OP: Why should I post about things I support?

[Empking]

OP: Why should I post about things I support?

Well, what if someone you think is town and is about to get lynched. Do you not defend them? Or do you just let them get lynched?

If you post about what you support, it can be useful for the town (on the downside: it can also give scum info, depending on what you say)

Is anyone about to get lynched?

[Empking]

Who are everyone's two main suspects?

[Empking]

Mod: VC?

Everybody, we've got -3 day to get a lynch.

[Empking]

I'm almost certainly no going to switch to D. I am willing to switch to KMD, though.

[Empking]

Well then, good luck village!

I've tried to stay in it but you're hell bent on lynching one of your own.

Please take a look at Zazie, DizzyIzzy/Andy, and Mixologist when I flip town tomorrow.

Name?

[Empking]

I'd like KMD to claim.

[Empking]

Vote: Ort

Cops are better than vigs.

[Empking]

OP; I'd like species.

[Empking]

FoS: Empking

Are you trying to narrow down a fake species claim? OP is highly unlikely to be scum.

I think there's more than enough obscure claims to be made that it won't help the scum but it might help town.

[Empking]

Unvote, Vote Empking

Give reasons to your votes.

[Empking]

Empking: Have you done any scumhunting this game?

Yes.

Goat; It is imposible for it to help the scum. It is possible that it might help the town.

Goat: Give reasoning.

[Empking]

What scumhunting? Show me where.

It can help the scum by both narrowing down species claims as well as giving scum more of an theme to the structure of town claims. I can't think of any reason off the top of my head why it would help the town.

I presume you know the entire set up then? Am I reading you right?

My reasons for voting you is a combination of your lurking, lack of any kind of scumhunting, and you ignoring questions I've asked you a couple of occasions now (my question over your cop+vig statement yesterday as well as 614 that I had to prod you into answering). Also, I think you're just BSing reasons to validate your stance that OP should reveal his species.

So one of your reasons for me is that you're delusional and that we got a lynch before I could answer one of your questions?

Every post I make is scumhunting. (Apart from this one.)

CDB: Why is being for something that may help the town but won't help the scum a scum tell?

[Empking]

I'd agree with you if you weren't just writing random things.

Do you actuallyu think that "OP's *proven* ability is unlikely to be a scum power" is a drawback to him claiming?

Uh, yes, because presumably you want him to claim so we can try and determine whether or not he is scum. So the fact that the power already makes him unlikely to be scum means that the benefit for the town is reduced.

Please do not act like your delusions are what I think.

Vote: CDB

[Empking]

Slow down. If that's not the reason you want OP to species claim,

what reason could you possibly have?

We know it won't help the scum. We don't know if it'll help the town.

[Empking]

Slow down. If that's not the reason you want OP to species claim,

what reason could you possibly have?

We know it won't help the scum. We don't know if it'll help the town.

Did you even read 627?

You know I did.

You just wrote a bunch of random non-reasons.

[Empking]

Slow down. If that's not the reason you want OP to species claim,

what reason could you possibly have?

We know it won't help the scum. We don't know if it'll help the town.

Did you even read 627?

You know I did.

You just wrote a bunch of random non-reasons.

Explain to me why they aren't valid, and then give a similar list with explanations of the benefits and drawbacks of an OP species claim.

Because (to take the last one) "hence, OP is unlikely to be fake claiming" isn't a disadvantaged.

Advantages:

Something I don't know

Disadvantages:

None

[Empking]

@Empking- there is absolutely no reason why OP should have to fully claim. I agree that OP revealing his ability when he did and the way he did was extremely protown and as such he can possibly catch scum in a fake claim. Even a small chance that this can happen shouldn't be thrown away. I'd like to hear a concise reason why you think it will help the town for him to claim or I'll be voting you.

SK, there are no disadvantages. Fact.

There may be an advantage. Fact.

You are not a complete idiot. Possibility.

i'm goingb to drop it, now.

[Empking]

vote empking

the disadvantage is that he could counter claim someone and if he claims, we lose that possibility.

there is NO advantage to him claiming now.

I can only think you're scum that got caught slinging craplogic.

Oh, I hate playing with idiots.

There are NOP disadvantages as proven by the fact that you're flinging stuff like "OP has an "a" in his name" (Purposeful exageration)

[Empking]

Because I know you know that stuff like "Op has an "a" in his name" isn't a disadvantage. So I know you already know the answer.

[Empking]

-scum get a clearer picture of what species are in the game
-scum get a clearer picture of what species are pro-town
-scum might have been preparing a particular fake species claim that might match OP's species, allowing OP to catch scum later
-OP's *proven* ability is unlikely to be a scum power
-hence, OP is unlikely to be fake claiming

- Not True
- They've still got enough info
- Scum will probably not claim OP's because that would be stupid.
- Not a disadvantage
- Ditto

[Empking]

Finally!

-scum get a clearer picture of what species are in the game
-scum get a clearer picture of what species are pro-town
-scum might have been preparing a particular fake species claim that might match OP's species, allowing OP to catch scum later
-OP's *proven* ability is unlikely to be a scum power
-hence, OP is unlikely to be fake claiming

- Not True
- They've still got enough info
- Scum will probably not claim OP's because that would be stupid.
- Not a disadvantage
- Ditto

-scum get a clearer picture of what species are in the game

Absolutely true. The presence of Blast-Ended Skrewts in the game will have alerted the scum to the fact that there are Harry Potter races in this game. Telling them another of the species in the game could help them figure out what flavour they could draw on when claiming.

-scum get a clearer picture of what species are in the game
Rebuttal: They've still got enough info

What? How? How do you know what info they do and don't have, and why would you possibly want to give them any more?

-scum might have been preparing a particular fake species claim that might match OP's species, allowing OP to catch scum later
Rebuttal: Scum will probably not claim OP's because that would be stupid.

Obviously not *after* an OP species claim, but that's the whole point! If OP *doesn't* species claim, then scum could get caught fakeclaiming his species. This is a clear advantage to not claiming.

-OP's *proven* ability is unlikely to be a scum power
-hence, OP is unlikely to be fake claiming (this probably should have been one point)
Rebuttal: not a disadvantage

It emphasises the other disadvantages, because it reduces the advantage - because the advantage would be determining if OP is town or scum, and the above suggests that OP is town regardless of species claim.

I don't think you can just make up advantages so you can rebut those advantages and add your rebuttals as disadvantages.

[Empking]

Which one is it?

-OP's *proven* ability is unlikely to be a scum power
-hence, OP is unlikely to be fake claiming

[Empking]

As I said, it's one point. The second sentence leads on from the first.

So you're not gong "Op has an "A" in his name" you're going "-OP
-Has
-an"
and so on.

[Empking]

I think the fact that you don't believe in it says enough.

[Empking]

When have I ever said I don't believe in it? Stop making up opinions you'd like me to have..

If you believed in it, you wouldn't have to pretend to have more reasons than you do.

[Empking]

I've explained my reasons fully and clearly, and your rebuttals have been found wanting. The only one pretending to have reasons is you - it's been made quite clear that there is no reason to want OP to make a species claim, and yet you still act like you're correct and that to disagree with you is somehow scummy. You've been caught trying to get information you don't need, and you've been blocking any attempts to explain yourself because you know you can't.

Confirm Vote: Empking

. I can't imagine myself moving my vote today.

How have I been pretending to have reasons?

[Empking]

You claim that there's more advantage than disadvantage to an OP species claim, but you can't back it up. That's pretending to have reasons.

I think the fact that I was as good as saying "I have no reasons" means otherwise.

[Empking]

Not having a reason means not having an advantage, which makes the whole suggestion of an OP species claim

completely moronic

, because of the disadvantages that I've listed and explained.

And I've rebutted.

[Empking]

And I've responded to your rebuttals. The majority of which you ignored to make a single, nitpicky point on the last one.

Why does your side have to pretend to have reasons if you're right and not scum.

OK, I'll claim so the rest of you can see OP is obv-scum.

I'm an Orc, a mason.

Meaning we have A confirmed innocent (Tree-Stump) and a Cop who produces innocents and Masons who are proven innocent to each other. So the odds of us having another confirmed innocent (Double Voter) is (Very, very, very) unlikely.

[Empking]

Well OP isn't confirmed...

You're acting like he is, though.

[Empking]

*I'm* not.

OK, Everybody but you and me then. OP is certainly acting like he thinks everyone thinks he's a confirmed innocent.

In any case, you are suggesting that believing his claim makes him scum. Talk about a catch-22.

Noyt really.

And furthermore you claim mason, which is is a counter-measure to this overwhelming overflood of confirmed people you speak off. tbc..

I don't understand.

[Empking]

-OP's *proven* ability is unlikely to be a scum power
-hence, OP is unlikely to be fake claiming

Thatr's pretty close to presuming he's proven town because he's a DV.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote; OP

Also, I forgot Vigs also have a confirmable power.

[Empking]

If people bvote you, I'll switch.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote; OP

Also, I forgot Vigs also have a confirmable power.

There's a difference between confirmable power and confirmable alignment.

For the record, can you confirm that you know your partner is town and that your partner knows you are town?

Yes

If a vig doesn't kill the first night, then the confirmable power (Pratically) confirms alignment.

[Empking]

Alright, I am getting caught up. I think it would be beneficial, probably day 2 or 3 (some time later on) if we did a mass flavor claim. Anyone agree? Disagree?

I will post sometime later on though.

I disagree.

INTERESTING. Back on Day 1, I suggested we did a mass flavor claim. Empking disagreed. Yet, he is the one that wants ME to flavor claim, even though there are more pros than cons. And then he claims mason orc.

Because I have an evil species (Like Sudo)

Tone: I am an Orc becayuse that's the role I was given.

OP: My partner is a half-orc.

[Empking]

Claim your partner.

If the majority want me to I will.

[Empking]

Vote Empking

Explain the following quote if you''re confirmed masons with Izzy:

Anyone else think Andy and Goat are part of the scum team?

I forgot.

Dizzy: Why are you lying. I have confirmation and Andy told me he had confirmation too.

[Empking]

Dizzy: Why are you lying. I have confirmation and Andy told me he had confirmation too.

When?

Pre-Game in the QT.

[Empking]

AT, told me he assumed I was the pro-town person he was told about because I was the name he was given and I was posting in the pro-town Half-Orc/Orc QT.

[Empking]

I know dizzy is town.

Dizzy: Read the bit after my name.

[Empking]

Why the hell didn't AT say "No". Would that have been so difficult for him.

I have Dizzy confirmed, that's a fact. I want to make that clear.