Mini 1011: Help! My Computer Got Infected! (Game over!)

[UncertainKitten]

Vote StrangerCoug

Know who the mafia are, won't tell us, etc.

Also, I hate quote stripes. If you post in them I will ignore all your posts, regardless if they are shitting pro-town gold.

Just thought you'd all like to know .

Also, NS is totally stealing my shtick and will likely gain my vote soon.

[UncertainKitten]

Quote stripes are like porn. I know it when I see it. Actually, they're worse than porn. I actually like porn.

Anyway, wouldn't it be hopelessly predictable if I did something different than what you predicted? So why should I play into your hands?

I do what I want!

[UncertainKitten]

@screl: How many mafia games have you played?
@PieMan: How many mafia games have you played?
@NS: Can you cite sources for your conclusion?

[UncertainKitten]

@xvart: Yes, way to give someone an excuse.
@Pieman: Thank you.
@jelly: Who?
@NS: That's a shame, I was hoping you could link me. But what leads you to the reaction fishing conclusion?

[UncertainKitten]

@screl: To be fair, I was driving towards the conclusion Pieman likely had a post restriction, but I was preferring to force him to admit it himself rather than having the answer handed to him. With xvart handing it to him, we can't be certain of anything about his odd posting style now.

I wouldn't flavor speculate so hard at this point in the game either.

@NS: Yeah, I could do that eventually. It wasn't not knowing how, it was hoping you'd save me the effort since I can't imagine every single post he's ever made implies your conclusion. I'm also not saying you are reaction fishing, I just recall you saying that Pieman was likely reaction fishing. Was my recollection in error?

@Vezo: That's nice.

[UncertainKitten]

@NS: Way to misinterpret things. You see, I know full well I can look at his entire posting history. And as I said, I doubt every post he makes is a reaction fish. Hence why first, I wanted you to link examples so I could see what you consider reaction fishing, both getting a wider view of you AND him, and secondly seeing how you justify a reaction fishing read on something that seemed more obviously a post restriction.

While laziness is involved in why I'm not bothering to look at this moment, I think you'll find my own posting history is plagued with procrastination and laziness .

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, Addendum:

While laziness might not be pro town, is it pro-scum or anti-town?

[UncertainKitten]

Alright, I'll grant that. But that would imply that scum were using my laziness to push mislynches. Therefore, the pro scum argument for my lazy behavior specifically precludes me from being scum, which still doesn't justify NS' FoS.

Also, please don't answer questions directed at other people in the future. It's suspicious. In the interest of showing my work, it's pro scum because it reduces the amount of clean reactions I get from someone, which protects them from revealing they are scum in how they answer something. Further, it cleaves you to a person who's alignment you should not know. In general, most outcomes of being attached to someone are pretty bad for town. Rather, from the perspective of you being town. From the perspective of scum, attachment has it's risks and benefits, and the benefits of attaching to someone as scum pretty much outweigh any benefits of attachment as town across the board.

Intriguingly enough it also encourages laziness, an action which you yourself said is pro scum to encourage. How interesting.

[UncertainKitten]

Fair enough, that was an oversight on my part. I did mean that to be directed to NS, and I thought the context would make it obvious. But I can see where it's vague enough to be misinterpreted. My apologies.

[UncertainKitten]

@vezo: First rule of bastard games: Even if you haven't seen it before, it's possible.

More generally, proof of role does NOT equal proof of alignment.

Also, StrangerCoug is NOT averse to giving scum post restrictions. I suggest looking at StrangerCoug's Worst Nightmare II. A lot of post restrictions, and IIRC more of them being scum than town.

Not to say he'll repeat the performance but I would suggest ignoring the post restriction for the sake of discerning alignment.

Others need to get with the program and post indeed :p.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, night seems self explanatory (Sends the game to night), which means it probably does nothing, but SC knows we're thinking that so it will actually extend the day.

By which I mean I have no fucking idea because this is one of those games where you are trying to outguess a mod with very little boundaries. I'd probably suggest azure if you were planning to execute one since it seems less...dangerous. But I'm not sure there's any wisdom in doing anything like that yet.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...then I'm more confused. Possibly it just creates two nights in a row but that seems rather, um, bad. Well, can be bad. Depends on town's power, and no, I don't want to know what our collective power is, especially speculating on something we don't know much about.

Other's answers to your question could be enlightening.

[UncertainKitten]

Ah, you're right, I misread.

If I were to guess, it'd be azure.exe.

[UncertainKitten]

I find that quite interesting that that's all you have to add.

Might as well start there.

Vote FakeGod

[UncertainKitten]

Well then, it's still a good start ^-^. Once you read the game, if you give satisfactory reads, I can unvote.

[UncertainKitten]

A post restriction is kinda one of those obvious things that you gain nothing by not admitting, as far as I can tell. At least yours is.

[UncertainKitten]

Never been in a game with you in my life, Vezo, that I know of. Though I imagine my name is prolific for my fairly antagonistic playstyle and seeming disrespect for even the possibility I could be lynched.

In fact, pretty sure this is the only ongoing I'm in right now ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Also, vezo, do you really need to claim all your powers? I would assume you haven't yet, but you've given hints to at least three things you can do. I don't see the information aiding the town a lot either.

[UncertainKitten]

It's still more information than should be handed out.

And hmm...I'm backup modding a couple games. I guess I'll check those out.

@PieMan: I'd like to point out, once again, Proof of Role does NOT equal proof of alignment. It works both ways.

[UncertainKitten]

OH, that one. How disturbing :O.

[UncertainKitten]

At any rate, I'm unimpressed with FG's findings. They read as elaborate OMGUS.

[UncertainKitten]

/me facepalms

Actually, less than that. He doesn't even vote. I confused him for Jelly Jiggler. Sorry about that.

[UncertainKitten]

...

OK, you know what? I can read. I swear.

Pretend I didn't just make two idiotic misreads in a row just now.

I'm still unimpressed but I agree with the sentiment in the vote I conveniently missed.

Where the fuck is gandalf?

Unvote, Vote gandalf

[UncertainKitten]

@Fake God: You both posted close to each other and I skimmed. Hence the confusion.

[UncertainKitten]

@Pieman: How is being "too serious too soon" a scumtell? Please elaborate on how that assists xvart scum.

[UncertainKitten]

@jelly: That...doesn't even answer my question.
@Pieman: That doesn't either. That just asks a useless question.

Since jelly has joined in, I ask again. How precisely does being "too serious too soon" assist xvart scum? How does lollygagging because we have three weeks benefit town?

[UncertainKitten]

@jelly: You responded to what I said about being too serious too soon. At any rate, why is voting too soon pro scum? How often do you think a quick mislynch occurs on flimsy D1 evidence?

[UncertainKitten]

@jelly: You are acting like using people acting stupid is a bad basis for voting. Why?

@Pieman: I have no idea what you are asking.

[UncertainKitten]

So, you still refuse to answer my question?

[UncertainKitten]

Actually, you come closer in your last post towards xvart. Basically, I think that if you make an accusation, you should be prepared to explain why it assists the scum.

[UncertainKitten]

Ah, OK.

How is leading people inherently anti town? People can think for themselves. Is he leading us in a way that benefits scum?

[UncertainKitten]

...bv and M=W were playing?

FoS: bv
FoS: M=W

[UncertainKitten]

Are scum easier to catch when they no longer have asses?

[UncertainKitten]

I've played 2 games on another site and this is my 3rd game on mafiascum. But I've never started out as scum. If this is the part where you claim that I'm noob scum I'm going to laugh my ass off.

JJ is probably noob scum.

@NS: Now does it makes sense ?

[UncertainKitten]

It's the fact you and bv totally just randomly showed up out of nowhere.

That said, you've producted well.

UnFoS: M=W

It's the same reason I'm voting gandalf.

[UncertainKitten]

@FakeGod: You can look at games I've been in. Descent Into Chaos, Disgaea II, Picto Mafia, and Malth's Alternate Reality being the last four minis I've been in that have completed (far as I know). Unfortunately, I wasn't scum in any of them. I...actually can't point to a recent game where I've been scum for your convenience ^-^;...closest is Pledge of Allegience where I lost as an SK.

Either way, meta doesn't help a lot with me, as far as I know.

[UncertainKitten]

@Fake God: I only mentioned mini themes. No one game really represents how I play well. My play varies based on mood, stupidity of other players, how obvious the scum are, etc. It varies. Descent Into Chaos had me with strong scumdar but low ability to convince people. Disgaea had me push a lynch from 0 to 60, but it was a mislynch. Picto Mafia involved me being very frustrated with pictures. AR involved me being confused as fuck.

Pick one and run with it, it probably won't help much.

[UncertainKitten]

OK, so, gandalf has been posting in other games but not this one...why? again? Since I know he's being asked for stuff.

[UncertainKitten]

Something I noted about UK: he admits to being lazy. Could be a set up for a case later in the game where he can say, “I was lazy and didn’t bother to double check. No harm no foul. I already said I was lazy in post 44 these things happen.”

Three issues.
One, I'm a girl. Unfortunately gender icons haven't yet been implemented again, so that's kinda understandable the mistake there.
Two, I would fully expect to get in trouble if I screwed up something like that.
And, three, you can check my meta for laziness if you'd like to establish whether it's true or not.

Not unvoting gandalf til he produces.

[UncertainKitten]

...who's Ademisk?

...We REALLY have a lurker problem here.

To clarify my stance I want gandalf, bv, and now apparently Ademisk to post SOMETHING SUBSTANTIAL before I move on. Gandalf particularly piques my interest because of the posting elsewhere, though that is somewhat explained, hence why I'll still accept something substantial.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Yes, I know xvart wasn't asking me but as one of the people on the wagon I figure it wise to justify my vote against comparative situations.

[UncertainKitten]

@screl: That's a rather outmoded and misogynist viewpoint. Think girls are too stupid to use the internet or something?

I'd prefer you check your fucking privilege, thank you very much.

Huh, I don't seem to have much game related to say after that. A shame.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmmph. Still rather presumptuous. But I did jump to conclusions based on some very stupid people I've seen on the internet.

So, I'll apologize for my own presumption since it wasn't fair to you.

[UncertainKitten]

Because if I hadn't, then we'd be in a situation where I have unexplained behavior, and being transparent is pro town, IMO. Hence why I've been asking people all game to justify their scum reads. I can't ask for that and then just be like, "Oh, hey, I'm going to vote this guy but completely ignore the other person doing the same thing"

[UncertainKitten]

That was a lapse of reason. I cede I should have waited.

[UncertainKitten]

What proof have you of that, vezok? I merely would like him to contribute.

[UncertainKitten]

As I said, if he produces adequately, I'll move on. I already know where I'm likely headed actually.

[UncertainKitten]

@JJ: Elaborate: Why is active lurking an unreliable scumtell?
Also, as a bonus could you link me to what you consider content produced by you?

[UncertainKitten]

...gandalf replaced out? I guess I'll keep a placeholder vote on him in anticipation of his replacement's production.

@Twomz: The problem isn't the lurking. That's a problem but reasonably null on it's own. It's the fact he was posting in other games that makes me want a DAMNED good post from his replacement.

@Tazaro: Maybe I just got back and he replaced while I was away.

Actually, Tazaro seems very scatter shot so far and I'm not sure what to make of it.

...Tazaro, are you seriously alignment speculating on Pieman's PR? SERIOUSLY? Didn't I have a speech about how

PROOF OF ROLE DOES NOT EQUAL PROOF OF ALIGNMENT

!? Didn't I even provide a cute link to where SC has used post restricted mafia before?

Anyway, overall, Lynching all lurkers isn't a terrible idea. I wanna see where things lead.

[UncertainKitten]

I actually found that Lynch All Lurkers in early game tends to hit town rather than scum, so I'm going to discourage that strategy for now.

So, out of curiosity, what hits scum more often than town early game?

[UncertainKitten]

@Vezo: Because I've already explained what I'm waiting for before I move on.

also, JJ, it'd be REALLY HELPFUL if you answered the question I asked earlier.

...JJ, yes, you should claim, you are at L-1 and I think I'd be comfortable voting you VERY shortly if
A) You continue to ignore my question about what you consider to be content produced by you
B) Why active lurking is an unreliable scumtell
and

C) Don't claim.

Admittedly I was hoping I could kinda take a more friendly approach to get the info I wanted from JJ from a less adversarial stance but clearly that is not working. That was mostly why I was not explicitly saying I think JJ is scummy like bananas here. Though it was probably obvious I was underwhelmed with his "discrediting the tell" on the active lurking.

FAKE EDIT: OK, he ninja'd me with the claim. Interesting he only waits for one response before going forward with it.

[UncertainKitten]

For your convenience, here is my original quizzing you post, JJ.

[UncertainKitten]

@JJ: Why do you assume I'm asking for the sake of implicating you? I actually am trying to get into your head and see what

you

consider content. I'll assess more from there.

As for your active lurking arguments...one is self defeating due to your lack of experience.
Two makes no sense for what I understand to be the definition of active lurking. Can you please elaborate how hiding your online status (something I am doing, actually), assists active lurking?
Three has two problems in that RBT is a terrible player and that I don't know what parameters you are using to describe "active lurking". If you could elaborate on these I'd appreciate it.
Four just means that you're still helping the town if you consciously avoid active lurking, and doesn't really explain how it's not a scumtell.

@Tazaro: That is a terrible argument and you should feel terrible for it. Flavor != role. In themed games, different flavor names can have the same role. I've done it in the past, though mostly offsite since I tend to use only one vanilla townie per game. I wouldn't suggest using a flavor argument.

Oh, yeah, this being a bastard game a single vanilla townie is entirely possible, but not necessarily going to happen.

[UncertainKitten]

Will you acquiesce to my request when you get back? I mean, hell, if I wanted you mindlessly dead with some thing justification, I'd ISO you and throw together something that looks good when I hammered. I'd rather actually discern if you are scum or not, and I believe you showing me what you believe to be content will help in that endeavor.

@Tazaro: Is there a reason you claimed your role name? Further, why are you using flavor arguments?

[UncertainKitten]

...

FoS: Tazaro

That's rolefishing out the ass. Why the hell do you want people to guess your power? It'll at the very least give insight into THEIR powers. Why do you need to know what Pieman's role is?

[UncertainKitten]

No, again, that's

not the point

. The point is, anyone guessing is very likely NOT guessing the power they have. In fact, they are not even likely to be guessing within the same broad type of role they have. i.e., a cop wouldn't guess an investigative role.

Why do you need this information? How does it help town?

@Vezok: Could you please cite sources on where I discussed flavor with you in an anti town way? I really hope you aren't broadbrushing so you can get a mislynch ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

Also, bonus points for trying to make your post more dramatic while flip flopping on Tarazo. That does not read as town .

[UncertainKitten]

Generally flavor discussion this early in the game aids scum more than town. It tends to give a vague bead on power roles which really doesn't help town. Now, in a massclaim scenario, flavor discussion can be a little more helpful, though with good mods, it tends to be a bunch of red herrings. Basically, as far as I know, the ideal theory of theme modding and role naming is to have massclaim hurt the town as much as possible. Flavor speculation also tends to hurt town since it leads to assumptions they shouldn't be making.

So, in general, flavor discussion is a distraction from scumhunting. Further interesting is the fact we've been having a fairly good discussion about Jelly Jiggler and suddenly you try to start up a flavor spec discussion.

[UncertainKitten]

He's already at L-1, isn't he? Anyway, I understand that but it's still not a good direction to go in

Anyway

/me ruffles vezok's hair

How cute, you're trying to attack me with absolutely no evidence, and when asked for it decide to go dogmatic. I could just pet you you're so adorable ^-^. I'm sorry mafia doesn't work like that, but it's so cute to see the little chihuahua trying to bite me and failing ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

OK, I get it now. I thought JJ was at L-1 but it turns out I misread the post saying anything about L-1. It was saying he could be taken to it. Either way, L-2 is decent to claim at with 12 alive so I'm not too concerned.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, I think it's less I have to convince you I'm not scum and more you have to convince everyone else I am. Since, you see, I'm not really threatened by specious arguments, hence why I find your attack so cute .

When you plan to actually scumhunt and build cases, I'll be willing to reconsider the merits of your accusations .

[UncertainKitten]

So why would you supposedly cite evidence and not provide it? That's not very town .

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, well, yeah, I want JJ to answer, I just figure you're on that so I can focus on coaxing something actually useful out of vezok .

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, hey, guess what, I'm going to be

V/LA from July 28 to August 1

I'm going to fukken Otakon!

[UncertainKitten]

Aren't I the only one voting Gandalf, a.k.a Diginova? For rather well explained reasons?

[UncertainKitten]

@Pieman: What's wrong with being pushy? How does that assist scum?

[UncertainKitten]

@Pieman: He can post the question until it's answered. I disagree with unvoting gandalf, true, but if it's scummy for him to ask, it's a different scumminess than "he's pushy". Be more specific. Why is it bad for him to tell us to unvote gandalf? Why is it bad for him to repeat his questions?

Speaking of repeated questions, JJ, right after you left I asked a question. Please answer it.

[UncertainKitten]

@JJ: here. Please reply.

@Tazaro: Assume I'm lazy and spell out what precisely makes xvart having a plan bad?

[UncertainKitten]

I accept those posts as content. Fairly weird content, but still gives the feeling of scumhunting, or at least trying to. But it's kinda sad you have 4 posts that can be construed as such, and admit that yourself. I also don't recall you countering any of my points on active lurking. Not sure what to make of the current situation since you've started defending yourself.

I believe I'll follow with who's scum, JJ?

[UncertainKitten]

@Pieman: Why is leading people scummy.

[UncertainKitten]

Why is debate a bad thing? It helps discern what's scummy and what's a theory disagreement. I don't like overly long posts but we can be succinct, right? And what makes my posts difficult to understand?

[UncertainKitten]

I would like a response from xvart and screl.

But, Tazaro, have you noticed how interesting vezok's contributions have been as far as cases go?

[UncertainKitten]

That's about my point .

[UncertainKitten]

You know, quote stripes seem to be actually pretty easy to read in the new Sepia. I'm surprised. I still think they are annoying as hell, but they're more tolerable.

Anyway, I like xvart's answer.

[UncertainKitten]

I am back.
I don't think any of us are in the computer.
@UK: READS NOW.

For now JJ is scum. He just cares about himself

Aren't they obvious? I think you and Taza look pretty scummy. JJ also doesn't look great but...honestly, he's reading more newb than scum or town to me.

Now, since I've so graciously answered your question, can you produce your cases on all those you suspect?

@Taza: A) How are HoS' scummy?
B) Why are you so paranoid about being attacked?
C) I'm not sure I understand your explanation for why you can't be scum with JJ? Honestly, your behavior could be read as distancing if someone wanted to pursue that. My opinion of JJ precludes that though.

@xvart: Quit saying what I'm thinking when I'm asleep!

@Tazaro: T-that logic...i-it doesn't WORK LIKE THAT! If you're an easy target (and town), an overzealous TOWN SCUMHUNTER is more likely to get you. Surprisingly enough, mafia tend to jump on people LATER because then they end up blamed less for the fall if a person flips town! Being an easy target just makes you an easy MISLYNCH, and usually implicates town when people aren't thinking critically :O!

@vezok: Why the extremes? Further, why the extremes that don't add anything?

Also, when's Diginova planning on posting? Anyway, I'm going V/LA soon, so here's what I'm gonna do.

Mod: I would like to proxy my vote to xvart for the duration of my awayness.
Unvote: Diginova

We seem to be agreeing a lot and he's made sense as town to me. Hopefully you'll vote as I would while I'm away! Have fun everyone ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

So...wait, you all are trusting a "cop result"

In a bastard game?

Are...all your brains turned off or something? You actually assume Twomz is sane just cause he said so? If I might suggest something, I'd say, maybe, just MAYBE try to build an actual case before jumping on someone's results. See if a guilty makes sense, you know?

As for twomz, you should know a lot better than that. You just outted yourself as an investigative role of unknown sanity. I would guess you're either insane or paranoid given derp derp wrong result.

See, normally this argument is stupid, but I once again will point to the fact this is a BASTARD GAME. And guess what happened in SC's LAST bastard game? There were NON SANE COPS :O!

Also,

Vote: jellyjiggler

Scummiest reaction ever.

Pieman is pretty up thar too.

[UncertainKitten]

@FG: Derping your way to a mislynch as well? At this point Twomz might as well explain his certainty in his result before you fucktards lynch me because you all CLEARLY lack the ability to formulate a strategy that involves any work on your part.

Dumbasses.

@JJ: No, I'm voting you because you're scum. You were scum yesterday and you're still scum today, and making it more obvious. Why didn't you even bother to question anything? Why did you derp your way onto the wagon? Because it's an easy mislynch. On the whole Twomz has struck me as more town like, so I don't necessarily think he's lying, though it's a possibility.

Thinking on it FG is looking bad as well.

[UncertainKitten]

So, it's worth a mislynch to you, Twomz? Not to mention the fact you'll probably be NK'd just in case you are useful as an insane cop. I doubt SC would throw together doc cop.

How was this at ALL a good plan, Twomz? At all?

Can you at least build a case for me to answer so we can, you know, discern PROPERLY if I'm scum or not?

[UncertainKitten]

This still implies that you've effectively consigned two townies to die for your stupid gambit. So, what's the benefit? Is there any way to salvage this?

[UncertainKitten]

I was on V/LA for most of the night and the start of the day. People should probably, you know, pay attention.

[UncertainKitten]

@JJ: Are you trying to answer a question very specifically asked to someone else in a bid to defend them? Cause that wouldn't be cool. Not cool at all :O.

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, the logic of investigating me does make sense, it's just I dislike how Twomz just herp derp trusts results in a bastard game. But I'm more concerned with the people herp derping on the wagon.

[UncertainKitten]

So, despite the fact I've given you a meta link of SC using non sane cops, you'll just assume that Twomz is sane? Yeah, that sure looks townie all right. I think we should just listen to whatever jelly jiggler says. No one can hope to beat his mafia theory. He is simply the best there is.

[UncertainKitten]

Hey I'm not telling you to listen to me. I'm just posting because you will be asking a billion questions later on.

If you're a townie trying to find scum and you think you've found them, why do you NOT want people to listen to you? You're not making sense, and you deftly evaded my question.

[UncertainKitten]

This just in: Scum lie about their roles :O!

Vezok could possibly have done it either by accident or on purpose, since he claimed that weird JoaT thing and was indeed a JoaT. Don't forget he seemed to not know what did what with his programs.

Anyway, more on the JJ thing. Why can't JJ have lied and killed xvart? It's entirely possible xvart was the mafia kill, considering, you know, he was pretty much one of the very few people actually thinking things through and hunting scum.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...why does it have to be a vig? It's quite possible a serial killer is involved, so two anti town factions killed two strong town forces. That in fact seems to make the most sense I think.

...wait. Why the fuck are you asking who killed vezo and trying to OUT A VIG? What the fuck is wrong with you?

[UncertainKitten]

Derp. OK, I understand what you are saying now. Honestly, it's probably the post restriction that's throwing me off.

Yeah, it's pretty likely it's a serial killer.

[UncertainKitten]

@JJ: So, in other words, you are indulging in laziness, a gambler's fallacy, and overall trying to push a mislynch. I think we've made the right choice in voting you dead.

@JJ: Questions that might seem pointless to you. They actually serve a distinct purpose. One is getting people to act in a pro town way since, I'll admit it, we seem to be in a somewhat inexperienced crowd that's done a few silly, but not necessarily scummy things. And two is discerning how someone plays and how it makes sense as town or scum.

@JJ: Why is post 80 "overly paranoid". Is it because I'm correctly calling you out on something? I find it quite interesting how you seek to discredit the tell rather than counter it.

Post 76, while a little hostile, is still my opinion of everyone who jumped on my wagon. Wagon analysis is the most concrete info you get in this game. Your vote was scummy. DEAL WITH IT. You do realize that a cop coming out with a guilty on a townie is effectively a FREE MISLYNCH for scum, right? And that scum would VERY eagerly push that mislynch, and then hide in the crowd when the flip happens. What ELSE am I supposed to assume from the most suspicious vote on the wagon.

So, anyway, why do you take issue with me asking people to think about what scum would do, as opposed to derping up a vote for someone for terrible reasons? Are you saying people shouldn't question reasoning? Are you saying that we shouldn't vote based on how an action helps scum? Are you saying we should just vote based on...what? What are we supposed to vote on? Your reasoning all game has been weak, and in fact the kind of reasoning I expect from mafia, since it has that feel of looking good on paper,

until it is questioned

.

JJ's trying to save himself. He has nothing.

[UncertainKitten]

OK, you know what? Could you like, link all of those posts? It's hard enough figuring out what your saying WITHOUT having to go hunting. So, please, use that cute little number at the top of each post, click it, and directly link me.

[UncertainKitten]

@JJ: I've explained I think you are scum for your opportunism.

Analysis is generally done behind the scenes. I've been getting reads all game, floating people towards town and scum and such. I've been fairly open about who I think is what. I don't see your arguments at all.

No, actually, an early vote with a cop claim is the "safest" bet because it's assumed everyone will follow, and later voters are waiting to see if their scumbuddy gets out of it. Nice try though, I'll give you a green star for effort.

This of course would be assuming I flip scum, of course. But it's a perfectly valid way of reasoning in a normal game when you get called out on your early vote later.

I don't want objective answers. I want YOUR answers. They determine your intent. Why do you want to hide your intent?

You cease to make sense at the end of your post.

Am I scum or am I not? If I am scum, you should be voting me. If I am not, who is?

[UncertainKitten]

@Pie re: 44: I didn't want to set a precedent of badly explained votes/FoS'. I wanted to make sure everyone was showing their work.

@Pie re: 52: Hmm...I want to think what I meant then was that other's answering the question would be enlightening as far as role info goes, and therefore bad. I'm not certain that was the intent though, and I can guess I just didn't think that fully through until later, when I took a hard stop discussing stance against it.

@Pie re: 92-93: No, that was me colossally misreading FG's post. As I explained.

@Pie re: 94: I was pressuring him to show the fuck up and post content. Lurking might not necessarily be a scumtell, but it's very convenient for scum to do if it's allowed.

@Pie re: 381: Do you mean what changed between then and now or from before that post to that post?

Not sure on the latter, but the former is the whole cop dramu.

@JJ: I still have no idea who lagerdog is or whatev. Anyway, may I ask what changed your mind about my scumminess?

[UncertainKitten]

@Pie: Maybe I was reviewing the post to reassess things. I forget what precisely I was doing there, but I do recall kicking myself several times and reassessing my read twice due to misunderstanding.

Screl and FG so far have been useless. This is actually scummy.

Could you two start being useful please?

[UncertainKitten]

@screl: JJ already answered so sure, we can open season that question.

Admittedly, we've hit a dead end unless anyone has anything new to add.

@FG: Really intent on that easy mislynch, aren't you? You know what a better way to test a cop's sanity is?

SELF INVESTIGATION :O

.

Course, if that's not allowed we can do a subjective test where you investigate your towniest read.

@screl: Um...we might not know for sure if he was sane if he dies. I don't recall if SC flips sanity as well ^-^;. And I know standard operating procedures DON'T flip sanity...

[UncertainKitten]

I don't know how SC handles these things. I know that I always allow anyone to use their role action on themself unless explicitly prohibited. If an insane cop investigates themself, they get guilty. (Unless they are a miller, then they get innocent). So you can solidly test sanity that way in my games. Twomz should ask SC about this.

[UncertainKitten]

Ah, it specifies? Well, quite a quandry. Then I guess either investigate someone that seems really town or someone who seems really scummy. Honestly, with sanity in question, picking a null read seems dangerous. I'll also point out we're at 9 players right now. We can't really afford that many mislynches unless there's a cross kill, hence why deliberation and such is important.

[UncertainKitten]

NAh, I'm aware of you M=W, you just haven't done anything of note to really be mentioned. This probably isn't that great but there are scummier fish to fry.

[UncertainKitten]

So, yeah, you know what was hilarious about yesterday? Pieman. It's quite...INTERESTING how much effort he was expending discrediting the cop. Now, diginova is probably right about lylo, so I won't go stabbing votes at people, but, yeah, I would vote Pieman.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: And by discrediting I mean calling him mafia rather than working with the sanity issue. And as far as I can tell his case was basically "OH manz conspiracy"

[UncertainKitten]

was thinking about that. The nature of my role makes it debatable, but it probably doesn't matter at this point given events, so I'll consent.

[UncertainKitten]

That's quite a risk to be taking on a suspect cop result, screl. tell you what though, if you can make a solid case on me I'm sure this plan will go a lot further ^-^.

Also, she, etc.

[UncertainKitten]

So, what's hilarious, is Pieman is voting me in likely lylo. So, WELLP :V!

Anyway, I'm fine with claiming first if we get a majority agreeing on that. I think I know why ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

Not necessarily. But, fine. Trap accepted. We'll go 1 v. 1 after massclaim. I'd vote you now but the possibility of doubling quicklynch chances doesn't really appeal to me yet. And, if you ARE mafia, then no quicklynch can occur on me anyway.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, essentially, unless three scum pop out of the woodwork to quicklynch me, it's pretty obvious one of us is scum. I'd prefer you unvote so they don't have that opportunity but perhaps a 1 v. 1 is the best way to resolve it anyway.

[UncertainKitten]

/me facepalms

I really didn't think that through. The only way it really works is if Twomz had not been killed.

But, either way, you've jumped on me with a vote, and unless I'm quicklynched (which would likely end in town loss), you pretty much have to be scum by my perspective.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, I also realize not everyone has checked in yet, so it's possible you're just sticking me in a dangerous position quite selfishly for when the mafia do show up, if they haven't already.

[UncertainKitten]

Actually, I get the distinct impression my role is proveable ^-^. But it depends on a few things.

And just because you make 4 sound ridiculous, doesn't mean it's not true.

Also, why 3? Didn't we establish the possibility of Twomz being insane? This hasn't been disproven, and in fact, by my perspective, proven. See, screl is doing a great job of trying to force my lynch because he knows it's his win if he does. He's been trying to get me since yesterday, and has been purposely painting Twomz as obv sane to reach that end. I think I might have been wrong about Pieman, but screl is giving off MAJOR scum vibes here.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention screl has no case and is trying to risk lylo on a conjecture. GOOD GOING!

[UncertainKitten]

I can't prove I'm

town

, it just stands a high chance my role is PROVEN. It really doesn't help with my alignment, unless the mafia shot me and a vig and/or SK shot Twomz.

No point hiding it, I'm a bulletproof. Given the lack of kill, I think someone shot me last night. But I would not be informed in that situation. screl can go next, thank you.

[UncertainKitten]

The cop that QUITE POSSIBLY could be insane? And the fact that no one's provided any evidence supporting a guilty result on me?

You're either dumb or scum to ignore these facts, ESPECIALLY in lylo.

You're still trying to push anyone who will listen into lynching me without you having a leg to stand on.

Produce a case or find scum, rather than derping this thread the fuck up.

[UncertainKitten]

...NS, what the hell? The last thing we need is DOUBLED RISK of quicklynchery. Yes, screl is likely scum. Is it REALLY worth the fucking game to risk him not being such?

I would REALLY APPRECIATE IT if people could stop premature ejaculating their votes!

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, hey, I DO have a rolename, don't I :V.

Yeah, I'm a BD-ROM drive. SC has a fancy ass computer.

[UncertainKitten]

BD-ROM drive. Blu-Ray Disc ROM drive. As I said, SC has one fancy ass computer. I'm still in the Dark Ages here with a DVD-RW drive :V.

[UncertainKitten]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, given the other flips, but basically because I'm hardware, I'm harder to infect and destroy. Why this doesn't apply to say, a printer or a mouse, I have no fucking idea. Maybe it's something about being connected differently, I have no clue.

[UncertainKitten]

True. Also, I hear more about printer, mouse, and keyboard drivers and the like then drivers for your ROM drives. Now, they probably exist, but they probably are more universal or something. I'm really not clear on this.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, it's theory two. I am a bulletproof. I figured I got shot because it would make a modicum of sense to vig me on suspicion of twomz being right. I'll be honest, I'd have shot me.

As for claiming the role name and power separately, I honestly forgot that we had role names, quite a failing on my part.

[UncertainKitten]

Anyway, we now have at least one scum on me. Any more want to make the jump?

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, right, and finally, there have been two kills a night. Even if I were hypothetically mafia, a bulletproof power would be plausible.

In other words, it is just as I said. My role MIGHT be proven, depending on the actions of the vig/SK (or possibly mafia), but it does NOT prove my alignment.

What's hilarious is the continued lack of a case on me.

[UncertainKitten]

To the first, again, that is what I'd do. Maybe I'm daring but I'd have shot me.

As for role names, yeah, so? I haven't looked at my role PM since the start of the game. I just knew I was bulletproof. All that mattered to me. Can't really say much more about it. I guess it's a point against me.

On top of that that guilty is a null tell, but you dumbasses refuse to actually SCUMHUNT, so guess it's derp our way to a loss because we followed a likely insane cop.

Sorry, FG, but I find it pretty hard to believe you have a brain and are using it...

(Well, unless you're scum :V)

[UncertainKitten]

On top of that that guilty is a null tell, but you dumbasses refuse to actually SCUMHUNT, so guess it's derp our way to a loss because we followed a likely insane cop.

UK, I read through the posts you made around d2 ~ d3, and instead of legit scumhunting, most of the posts were just you defending yourself... (or attacking JJer, probably trying to save yourself...) :/

To be fair, I had to defend myself pretty heavily to prevent you all from making a silly mistake. But, admittedly, that was a lapse. JJ did seem rather scummy though.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, whatever, might as well put my vote down since no one cares about lylo.

Vote screl

Tellan you he's scum. I really hope you figure this out before lynching me. I could be convinced to do an ISO showing precisely why screl does not have the town's interests at heart.

Also, your case is partially bullshit, especially the scumslip part. Quite obviously, Pieman voting me in lylo puts us in a 1 v. 1 of sorts unless I get quicklynched.

At any rate, daytalk arguments are really fucking terrible as well because, guess what? Scum can come up with a signaling method in their posts! I've seen it done before.

Constant verbal attacks are a null tell with me. Read some of my prior games. It's something I've been trying to cut down, admittedly.

And, I have no idea what the hell you are even trying to say about my claim since it's about the dumbest logic I've ever seen, and this game has had a lot of dumb logic.

[UncertainKitten]

You see, there's a difference.

WE WERE GOING TO MASSCLAIM

dumbass.

[UncertainKitten]

Hi screl, there's such a thing as a

PARANOID COP

:V.

Not even gonna get into the WIFOM arguments present in PieMan's post.

[UncertainKitten]

That's utterly stupid.

If he hit town and got a guilty, there's still the insane chance, and an insane cop is as good as a sane one once they realize they're insane.

I don't think it would have been too hard for him to figure out his sanity.

So, if people will stop with the fucking stupid arguments, could I have a real case? Or are you all too dumb to come up with anything before mislynching me?

[UncertainKitten]

Derp a fuckin derp, screl

[UncertainKitten]

The thing is, SC is a bastard, but I don't think he's a jackass. I would prefer to eliminate the hidden miller possibility from the pool of situations leading to a guilty result on me. Because if I WERE a miller and didn't know it, I'm afraid I would have to add SC to the list of mods I refuse to play under.

Therefore, having been in an SC game where IIRC none of the cops were sane, and the fact that a sane cop in a 12 player mini is overpowered, I must therefore assume that Twomz is insane or paranoid.

Your logic makes no sense whatsoever.

Of course, that's kinda expected from the crop of intelligence we've gotten in this group.

I hope you enjoy your victory when I die screl. You managed to successfully lead a pack of morons into believe a non sane cop. Good job fooling dumbasses!

[UncertainKitten]

I consider a cop overpowered PERIOD. But that's a theory discussion. At least in a large there's generally enough people so that a cop doesn't break the game by D3. Yes, I know that it requires a lot of things to go well, but the possibility is far from non zero of a cop creating a town voting bloc and leading to collusive lockdown. On his own.

Granted, not a lot of people share my cop theory, but in this case I have the evidence of my role PM saying I'm a Bulletproof Townie as opposed to Twomz result of mafia. So, I have to assume he's non sane, or that SC is a mod I will never play under again. Does that elucidate my stance?

[UncertainKitten]

It was also about twice the size of this game. I think there were three cops. But there were also two mafia groups, etc. And one cop was for a mafia group that didn't exist.

Basically, trust nothing except your scumhunting is the best creed in a bastard game. That's why I'm so pissed at the core of your cases being "Well TWOMZ GOT A GUILTY!"

It'd be one thing if you all implicated me through scumhunting, and used Twomz' result as something to get you looking closer at me, but most of you aren't. Diginova has come closest, and I'll admit, I'm in a rough spot. But a lot of you are derping on the wagon purely because of Twomz, and that's just plain STUPID.

[UncertainKitten]

Meh, I probably should get around to that ISO. screl's reeked of scum a fair bit anyway. Today I has DnD though and then eating out for dinner tonight. If I have time today I'll try to give you a succinct and undefeatable case on screl, but it might be more likely done tomorrow.

[UncertainKitten]

I kinda was iffy about him yesterday but not sure how to phrase it without it seeming like OMGUS. Today I have no choice .

[UncertainKitten]

You're probably right, but it makes it harder to convince others. Regardless, I should have tried and that was a failing on my part.

[UncertainKitten]

I have already once. It's SWN II. I reference it and link it early on in the game. You can find it reading me in ISO.

[UncertainKitten]

I basically assumed I could only buy one day, so I played with that goal in mind. If my play seemed sucky D3, that's because I stopped caring and was explicitly playing to irritate town into quicklynching me. It didn't work quite as well as I'd hoped. I do apologize for any abuse I might have heaped on you, I mostly didn't mean it.

Admittedly, you REALLY should have lynched me D2, despite my arguments. It wasn't worth the lylo risk. Killing Twomz WAS a bad move on my part, I do have to agree though.

[UncertainKitten]

To be fair, you had me HANDED to you. The voting patterns WERE problematic. But I kinda figured you all wouldn't notice given how the rest of the game went .

[UncertainKitten]

Good luck getting that FG. Further, the fact that you think that a modkill rather than a lynch is at all a viable tactic causes me to look upon you with disdain.

What the fuck guy?

[UncertainKitten]

Well, it just so happens I'm not averse to calling an asshole an asshole. If that offends you, it's mostly likely because you don't like being called out on assholery.

[UncertainKitten]

I was still handed to you. Without the cop result it's still far from guaranteed I would have been lynched. I'm slippery. But, neither of us can know how it would have gone .

Also, you don't have that post restriction anymore .

[UncertainKitten]

Sometimes jokes don't convey well through the internet. I am trying to be less abrasive, though in this case I did play it up to try to get a gain.

[UncertainKitten]

I generally get jokes offline, but there are several nuances of tone that are just not conveyed in text.