NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[UltimaAvalon]

ya

[UltimaAvalon]

I *hate* moderating that many people and having to keep up a vote count

Try keeping an active votecount during Day 1 random voting in a Scumchat game. Even with just 7 players it's a nightmare

[UltimaAvalon]

Vote: UA

No explanation required

[UltimaAvalon]

it would seem rather a dim strategy to decide (as scum) to try and start a bandwagon

on themselves

first thing on D1.

To be perfectly fair, it's a dim strategy as town too

it's fairly self-evidently wasteful. But I don't mind getting a few laughs out of it

People like dana makes it worth it

[UltimaAvalon]

UNVOTE:

Does this mean I'm at a serious disadvantage for not really knowing or having played with anyone else in this game? lol.

"Meta" is a bullshit concept that people like JDodge use to "catch" scum in lieu of things like logic and reading the game. Trust me, you're fine

[UltimaAvalon]

Pretty confident today, JDodge, aren't we? Dana is a moron who's covering his tracks, but I don't think he's scum yet. At least, I don't think a shitty No True Scotsman argument is enough to label him as such.

Also, pot, kettle, etc

@BM BS posts mean everything in the post is bullshit. Some posts contain many arguments

Oh hey, JD already brought that up. Gee this new preview function is handy

[UltimaAvalon]

Pretty confident today, JDodge, aren't we? Dana is a moron who's covering his tracks, but I don't think he's scum yet. At least, I don't think a shitty No True Scotsman argument is enough to label him as such.

OK then, who do you think is scum? I see no reason to not push forward on our best leads at all times. You can't make progress sitting there waiting for something to happen.

Oh, no, I agree, we should def lynch Dana before those who might also be scum have a chance to post. Good call.

Also, pot, kettle, etc

explanation

You of all people are not allowed to call anyone "authoritative" nor accuse them of asserting said authority onto others. Ever

[UltimaAvalon]

Show me where Dana said "I'm experienced, listen to me"

[UltimaAvalon]

I have played with him [UA] before

No, you joined after I began my hiatus of all games outside of Mish Mash

[UltimaAvalon]

I saw that as him using the scotsman to cover his tracks, not asserting his experience over others. The reason no one cares about his latest is because you've (quite loudly) been attacking the weaker arguments first. However, now that that hasn't panned out like you wanted it to, you may turn everyone's attention to the prozac attack

[UltimaAvalon]

"Depends on the other" isnt the same thing as "leads to the other"

[UltimaAvalon]

Show me where Dana said "I'm experienced, listen to me"

WHAM. Confirmed my suspicions. IMMEDIATELY ON PAGE 5, TOO. LOL
I'm good.
There's scum #2, you're welcome town.

FoS

: UA

Really? Me arguing with JD means I'm Scum? Even though that was a damned good argument that he didn't really answer? That's funny.

Why are we thanking you? All you did was point it out, JDodge and I did all the work. No, you're not good

[UltimaAvalon]

they'll be thanking me when you flip mafia, idiot
learn to read

Also, if you use strawman again, whether on purpose or not, i'm going to change my vote to you immediately

And, in case you're an idiot, i'll clarify:
I meant your buddying and protecting of dana as him being a more inexperienced scum partner of yours is obvious
sorry, bro, but your dying meets my win condition as town

1:No, you still haven't done anything worthy of thanks, besides pointing at me and screaming SCUM SCUM at the top of your lungs. Scum hunting is a little more difficult than that

2:

there is no way I'm changing my vote

I didn't expect you to change your mind

that

fast

3: This isn't a Newbie game. Why do you expect anyone to hold anyone else's hand? I am perfectly capable of attacking JD without defending Dana, thanks

[UltimaAvalon]

People who say "there's no way I'm changing my vote" scare the hell out of me. There is no reason at any point to not want to be flexible to whom we lynch on any given day.

Moral of the story: Don't say shit if you're not going to back it up. It ruins your credibility

[UltimaAvalon]

Or, you could just take 2 Alieve to stop pain all day

[UltimaAvalon]

You could try to actually do your job as a Mafia player and READ DAMMIT

[UltimaAvalon]

Please point to where in my argument I insinuated we should just declare him town now and be like LOL OKAY HE'S OFF LIMITS.
Please, show me. Because that's the most overeager, overreaching statement I've seen in a long time.

I simply asked you a question. Dear God what an awful response.

Sad thing is that's par for the course, as far as this game is concerned

[UltimaAvalon]

UltimaAvalon:

He's been very active but his posts have consisted of questions to other players and him defending his PoV, but I don't think he has given any of his actual thoughts on the game yet from skimming him in iso. He has avoided taking any stances.

FoS: UltimaAvalon

I don't necessarily have a stance. I spent most of my time yesterday reacting to the explosion of posts, tying to stop bullshit before it could get started (JDodge), and dealing with terribad players (Dana, Frank) to the point where I eventually said fuck it and left to play Torchlight.

And the reason I still have no real stance between who's Scum or Town is because it's only been a day since the game started, last I checked 1/4 of the players still haven't checked in past the confirmation stage, and it's really hard to not tunnel on the most prolific players of the game, which most seem to be doing. Someone said we need to utilize all the time we have and they are absolutely right. With 24 players, we have a lot of scum to catch, and a lot of time to do it.

[UltimaAvalon]

After doing some actual in-depth reading I fail to see anything particularly scummy about UA. As he's said, his play so far is more for attacking JDodge and his arguments than defending dana. However, his single-minded focus on what is basically a "proxy defense" is not going to work in the long run. You need to start making some real contributions.

I do have a question for UA: What exactly is the "No True Scotsman" argument you refer to?

I'll contribute later tonight, when I'm not so entrenched in whatever game I happen to be playing atm.

To answer your question, Here's a link to the wiki

The "No True Scotsman" argument that both JDodge and I mentioned was Dana saying "No one as experienced as I would really think UA was scum for self-voting" or something to that effect.

[UltimaAvalon]

Stopped my re-read to say I don't buy the cop claim. I can say I bread-crumbed Compulsive Self-Voter (Survivor), but that doesn't mean that I am one.

Back to reading.

God I hate this game.

[UltimaAvalon]

Players who still havent posted:
Orochi
Johnny Rotten (Didn't confirm)
Seth

I think now that the game is 3 days in, it's a good time for prods Bam.

At the moment, my top suspect is Frank. I'll admit it could be because several of his attacks were against me, however, the majority of them sounded like they were coming from a raving lunatic, and left me with the impression he was Scum at worst, and anti-town at best. After the initial re-read, I've decided that I'm never going to read anything before Page 7 again. I also noticed a few players gave me mixed signals, and that will be investigated after lunch.

[UltimaAvalon]

You unvoted after he claimed Cop, then told Frankie that you needed a reason to disbelieve the claim. Why did you think your vote was still on him?

[UltimaAvalon]

Here's the short version, Frankie. Only Scum want to kill a claimed cop. Change your mind, fast

[UltimaAvalon]

EBWOP: Claimed Cop on Day 1

[UltimaAvalon]

the cop claims enough.

This, though I'm waiting on his reaction to my post before voting

[UltimaAvalon]

I'm a better candidate because you're scum seeking a mislynch, porochaz
Since dana will surely not be lynched because people are gullible

unvote

I'm going to

vote porochaz

for being suspicious of someone I know is town (myself!)

You're not listening. Very few of us actually believe his claim. In spite of this,

It is in Town's best interest that he makes it to Night 1, for information purposes

. If he's lynched, all we get is his role (which might be cop(but probably isn't))

That said, you're still a rambling, ranting, raving, anti-town lunatic, and probably scum.

Unvote
Vote: Frank

[UltimaAvalon]

@ Xite: The wiki is your friend

[UltimaAvalon]

You could try to actually do your job as a Mafia player and READ DAMMIT

[UltimaAvalon]

@Frank: I don't remember the terminology for it, but most of your argument for your own townlieness revolves around "I know what my role PM says", and you calling everyone who says otherwise a liar for it. Not only did it bug the hell out of me the first time you did it on page 3 or so, it's just not an argument. It's not what you know that makes you a Townie (quite the opposite really, as the town is uninformed by definition), and it's not "What you can convince others", it's what you can prove through your actions. Super tunneling on Dana doesn't prove you're a townie. Ranting, raving lunacy, or "splaffing", doesn't prove you're a townie. Refusal to act in a Pro-town manner, especially when advised by several town-ish players on how to do so, doesn't prove you're a townie.

[UltimaAvalon]

Okay, Useful ISO time!!!
All post numbers are ISO numbers
...
16) Here's two point UA makes that are just too valid not to be buddying...

Ok, apparently it's been so long that played Mafia that there are new ways of posting that I'm not quite grasping. ISO numbers? This clearly isnt post 16 of the game, nor does it make sense in context of my 16th post

[UltimaAvalon]

16) Here's two point UA makes that are just too valid not to be buddying...

Here, have some context

Pretty confident today, JDodge, aren't we? Dana is a moron who's covering his tracks, but I don't think he's scum yet. At least, I don't think a shitty No True Scotsman argument is enough to label him as such.

OK then, who do you think is scum? I see no reason to not push forward on our best leads at all times. You can't make progress sitting there waiting for something to happen.

Oh, no, I agree, we should def lynch Dana before those who might also be scum have a chance to post. Good call.

Also, pot, kettle, etc

explanation

You of all people are not allowed to call anyone "authoritative" nor accuse them of asserting said authority onto others. Ever

There's a difference between asserting yourself and saying "I'm experienced, listen to me". Do you agree or no?

Show me where Dana said "I'm experienced, listen to me"

In both cases I was never defending Dana, I was attacking JDodge. Call it "buddying" all you want, but I wasn't going to sit here and let JD shepard a Large Town, as he's prone to do.

[UltimaAvalon]

16) Here's two point UA makes that are just too valid not to be buddying...

Here, have some context

Hun, that was sarcasm. I figured it didn't need sarcasm tags. I was saying you were making valid points, but because they were defending someone else, he was saying it was buddying. It was a whole post of bullshit, his ISO 16 was

Actually, it was directed at both you and Frank, since, as far as I know, he's still convinced Dana and I are BFF

[UltimaAvalon]

@Dana: Proven how? Stating your opinion doesn't "prove" anything. The only real way to prove your argument is to cite examples from other games.

Secondly, There's a difference between acting town-like, and deliberately acting town-like. And it's not entirely accurate to say that simply because someone isn't trying to act town that they're automatically acting scummy. You'll find there's actually a large margin between the two

[UltimaAvalon]

I dont think you can afford my services

[UltimaAvalon]

Wait a minute. Was Frank the first one to bring up multiple scum groups? On Day 1? Why is he not dead yet?

[UltimaAvalon]

No. TRYING to look Town is what makes you looks scummy, because Scum HAVE to act like Town in order to live. If you're Town, you only have to not look like Scum. And there is a lot of grey in between these two concepts

[UltimaAvalon]

[UltimaAvalon]

The thing he was pointing out was the breadcrumb. Slowpoke indicates that he's.....really really slow

[UltimaAvalon]

Dana's breadcrumb

[UltimaAvalon]

unless there was another breadcrumb I've missed...then....I dunno

[UltimaAvalon]

Wait a minute. Was Frank the first one to bring up multiple scum groups? On Day 1? Why is he not dead yet?

Show me.

I believe its the post where he listed reasons why Dana-Cop needs to be lynched

@Frank: I don't remember the terminology for it, but most of your argument for your own townlieness revolves around "I know what my role PM says", and you calling everyone who says otherwise a liar for it. Not only did it bug the hell out of me the first time you did it on page 3 or so, it's just not an argument. It's not what you know that makes you a Townie (quite the opposite really, as the town is uninformed by definition), and it's not "What you can convince others", it's what you can prove through your actions. Super tunneling on Dana doesn't prove you're a townie. Ranting, raving lunacy, or "splaffing", doesn't prove you're a townie. Refusal to act in a Pro-town manner, especially when advised by several town-ish players on how to do so, doesn't prove you're a townie.

All the advice I've been getting doesn't amount to shit. I still find you scummy for your behavior with dana. How have I been tunneling when I am suspicious of multiple people?

What Prozac said

Wait a minute. Was Frank the first one to bring up multiple scum groups? On Day 1? Why is he not dead yet?

I didn't bring up multiple scum groups, learn to read. I said that they should have multiple kills in the night if this is balanced properly.

You're right. I distinctly remember reading that exchange with you and Prozac, not having a clue what you were going on about, and promising myself to go and look at it later. I just now figured out what you meant by it
1) When has this happened, ever?
2) We can't even begin this kind of speculation until we actually have a kill to analyze. Why in the 9 Hells did you bring it up?

No. TRYING to look Town is what makes you looks scummy, because Scum HAVE to act like Town in order to live. If you're Town, you only have to not look like Scum. And there is a lot of grey in between these two concepts

Well, I manage to get mislynched enough as town, and this game is going to be the same it seems. I must be in that grey area, really need to tighten my game up.

Then stop sucking at Mafia

I'm going to

vote: hiphop

for these reasons:
1) because I thought he was protown, and I'm an idiot, so I'm going to try something new (the opposite of what frank would normally do theory!)
2) because he has a lot of votes
3) because I have a lot of votes
4) because I know my role, and I don't know his

I know I said that he looked like town, and that looks ugly, but I'm going to have to deal with that.

So now, in order to prove yourself right, that you aren' tunneling on Dana, you're going to jump on the hop wagon because you think he's protown? No, seriously, all 4 of those are probably the worst reasons to jump on a bandwagon, ever, and then you went and stuck em all together just so you could see my brain leak out of my ears. Bravo.

How is 4 even an argument for you being Town? Scum know their roles too. They also don't know the roles of Townies. They also may or may not know the roles of their buddies.

[UltimaAvalon]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

@Mysterio: Or both

[UltimaAvalon]

I honestly feel that dana/singersigner/xite are scum together. If you all lynch me, at least take them out with you.

Does this mean you don't think I'm scum anymore?

Hi Gorrad, I don't think I've actually played with you outside of Mish Mash

[UltimaAvalon]

Vote: UltimaAvalon

nhammen's flip worries the heck out of me, as I got strong town vibes from him, nor can I remember anyone being suspicious of him.

[UltimaAvalon]

Vote: UltimaAvalon

nhammen's flip worries the heck out of me, as I got strong town vibes from him, nor can I remember anyone being suspicious of him.

Lol. Now this is a wagon I think I could jump on. Well, who do you think is scum?

I have a few ideas that will be revealed after I read a couple of players in isolation.

As an aside, there are a few replacements that totally ruined my whole Day 2 game plan

[UltimaAvalon]

1)We had two cop claim? I missed that, I thought we had a Vanillia townie claim who then switch to Doc. claim.

4)I want Dana to explain, it is suspicious that the same person he invistigated died too. That why I made the comment "Why DavidParker when their were more people who were suspicious?" I didn't know people had suspicion of him, it was a shock to me.

Seriously?

[UltimaAvalon]

1)We had two cop claim? I missed that, I thought we had a Vanillia townie claim who then switch to Doc. claim.

4)I want Dana to explain, it is suspicious that the same person he invistigated died too. That why I made the comment "Why DavidParker when their were more people who were suspicious?" I didn't know people had suspicion of him, it was a shock to me.

I'm just going to quote these two again, and hope you actually connect the dots this time, or actually go and read the last two or three pages of Day 1.

[UltimaAvalon]

I haven't been purposefully sliding by, but I won't say it wasn't nice watching the game unfold around me while remaining mostly invisible. I would've posted sooner, but I've been having a lot of problems. One of which is because I'm the sort of person who generally doesnt speak unless spoken to, or has something important to say. It's one of the reasons I went on a year and a half Mafia hiatus in the first place. However, I also have a few beliefs about this game that are highly controversial, and I've spent most of my time trying to find alternative explanations. I was unsuccessful.

First and foremost, I will be operating under the impression that we are playing against 2 scum teams. A few people have subtly brought this up earlier today, and the only real argument against it was "No flavor". This is a bullshit argument. Just as relying on flavor to deduce scum or setup is folly, so to is relying on the absence of flavor. The primary reason I believe this is the nhammen flip. The dude was so Town, it hurt. So much, that it seems silly to me that he'd be the target of a Vig or SK. I'm not saying that two scumteams is the only explanation for his death, but I do believe it to be the most likely.

Second, I believed JDodge to be Scum. For different reasons, I believe his replacement to be scum as well. Unfortunately, I'm unable to pinpoint what it was that made me target JDodge, aside from my "I always know when JD is scum" meta. Similarly, I get an uneasy feeling reading @.@'s posts. However, since I don't actually have an attack, I wont push it, since it's incredibly hard to defend against "you're scum cus gut says so" (But incredibly easy to retaliate against)

Dana, you're the worst cop ever.

The Wraith wagon is stupid, but please don't add me to your "Sane townie list" for saying so, if you please.

[UltimaAvalon]

Daykill looks fake unless it happens at the end f the day with the lynch....which seems unlikely .... otherwise flame would've already put it threw.

yeah very weird, the mod posts "how about now?" after the day kill, what the heck does that mean?

he doesn't even comment on the day kill at all either

Patience. BBM has a habit of making placemarker posts, and that one was made at 2 AM. I expect to see something to come of it today.

[UltimaAvalon]

Full description on how your daykill works, Xite, if you don't mind.

[UltimaAvalon]

Full description on how your daykill works, Xite, if you don't mind.

It's one shot
I say Kill: XXXX
It doesn't happen until a lynch occurs, and then both of them die.
That's all it does.

This doesn't fit your attitude/actions between the "kill" and the VC. Reading those 4 or 5 posts, it really looks as though you're still in the process of figuring out just how your daykill works. The fact that you waited until after the VC to unvote is particularly suspect.

[UltimaAvalon]

Thats the worst part though, is I can't wrap my head around what he's done if he's lying. After spending the entire day saying "obvscum, he needs to be lynched." He does something that makes Wraith practically unlynchable for today, either because he's telling the truth and lynching him is as wasteful as a No-Lynch, or he's lying and we won't know until Wraith doesn't die.

I don't think "He's Town faking a daykill" is a possibility. He's either telling the truth, or Scum. As Town, there's absolutely no reason for him to take all the pressure off of his top suspect. As Scum, there's a couple of reasons, but they all assume they're buddies together.

[UltimaAvalon]

ATTN: Players!

I'm done with the charade, it was actually faked.
It was a simple gambit, in order to get a few things running.

Reading Comprehension is an amazing skill

[UltimaAvalon]

ATTN: Players!

I'm done with the charade, it was actually faked.
It was a simple gambit, in order to get a few things running.

Reading Comprehension is an amazing skill

I lol'd but you left out the reasoning

As far as the post was concerned, the reasoning wasn't important. I couldn't believe how many people still had no idea it was fake. It's like they're ignoring entire posts altogether. What's even funnier was people asking even after I posted that. I even fixed the typo, since (again, Reading

COMPREHENSION

) the sentence didn't make sense with "if", so it had to be "it".

[UltimaAvalon]

JESUS I CANT LINK IT FOR OBVIOUS REASONS BUT WRAITH IS ALWAYS A SUICIDAL TOWNIE!!! THIS IS A TERRIBLE WAGON!!!

I believe they believe he's suicidal scum too

[UltimaAvalon]

@UltimaAvalon, be more useless.

mmk

playstyle

Playstyle implies I'm playing. I haven't been. I've been reading the thread as it progresses and finding my opinions flip-flopping repeatedly. I've entertained thoughts of getting replaced, or simply doing something to get myself modkilled so as to not shoulder the burden onto another hapless soul.

There's a reason for this though

There seems to be a new method of playing Mafia on this site. Where once logic and reason ruled the boards, I instead find speed wagons and an entire town with tunnel-vision. Those without this tunnel vision are also marked as scum and thrown onto the "You're Next" list. This game is like a slower version of Epic Mafia, and it disturbs me. I cant even get a read on people because they sound like completly different people every 5 or so pages

[UltimaAvalon]

Gorrad and Robbvna have been using more and more circuitous logic in their case against me, culminating in:

going off what gorrad said, trying to get town points would be the same as trying to look town, which is scummy

According to this, everyone is scum, because scumhunting can be classified as "trying to look town." As well as "trying to get lynched." For all you know I'm a Jester. "As well as defending oneself" because apparently town don't do that.

So you see Xite's flawed logic too

Hey, guess what- TOWN DOESN'T NEED TOWNPOINTS. Town needs other people's scumpoints. Scum need townpoints. A townie goes into a game of mafia saying 'Hey, let's find the scum'. A scum goes into a game of mafia saying 'Hey, I'm gonna try to not be lynched'.

I don't see how yall read Gorrad's post and came to that conclusion. Scumhunting is Scumhunting, no matter if you're Town or Scum. Scumhunting is not "Trying To Look Town". Trying to look Town is posting in a manner that appears townish, but is actually mostly fluff.

kinda like 90% of my posts.*

*including this one

[UltimaAvalon]

#13 - changes UA's post from scum wants to kill claimed to cop to scum wants to lynch claimed cop(scum would rather kill a claimed cop instead of lynching cause it is less obvious who dun it) but than he says he agrees with the corrected post. *** this one strikes me as very scummy***

This doesn't even make any sense. How does agreeing with the corrected post after he corrected it look scummy? He's the one who made the correction. (regardless of ninja)

[UltimaAvalon]

in, fact, a lot of your iso on hiphop lacks context.

#1 was his random vote.
#6 This occurs during the thin line in which the rsv is trying to turn serious but hasnt quite gotten there yet
#7 answering non-serious attacks and suggestions in a semi-serious fashion
#8 yes, this is the main reason for all the initial hiphop hate, as far as I can tell. "This is scummy because I was called scummy for agreeing with it" is rather odd though. Do you still agree with it? Do

you

think this post is scummy in spite of other calling you out for agreeing with it?
#12 it wasn't obvious to Frank (and a couple of others if memory serves.) The entire purpose of 12-16 is informing Frank why his position was bad, and waiting to see his reaction.
#17 You skip over some of the post's more important bits (calling xite out for Day 1 setup speculation) in favor of throwing dirt on him. Well done.
#18 Weird how? This was another good post. And if this really is Orochi's last post then I think I need to take a closer look at hi-oh wait he's been replaced fuck this game.
#19 You're right that he never came forward with his fore-mentioned "case", but his reason for voting Wraith is a lot better than most others.
#23 He gave his reasoning for unvoting though, his reaction to the Fake Daykill. Also, how is he buddying to Xite, when he agrees with him once and disagrees with him once in that post?

[UltimaAvalon]

"This is scummy because I was called scummy for agreeing with it" is rather odd though. Do you still agree with it? Do

you

think this post is scummy in spite of other calling you out for agreeing with it?

I still want this question answerd Robb

[UltimaAvalon]

#8 - 2nd part I sort of agree with his point, but everyone thinks I am scummy for it so that makes him equally scummy

[UltimaAvalon]

Eek is in this game?

[UltimaAvalon]

UA and MME probably need to get their vote somewhere more useful. Actually, I still don't really know who UA thinks is scum - he's said it's Jd/his replacement but he hasn't followed that up with a vote.

You'll note MME hasnt even posted since he replaced whoever. I'm not voting @.@ because I cant come up with an argument better than gut/the person you replaced, neither of which are fair points to argue against. That said, I'll move my vote when I'm sure the person I'm voting deserves it.

Lol u beleive what you want but I'm not scum

you need to make sure you know what you ate talking about before makeing bold accusations that are false

Robb, you realize it's posts like this got got Frank lynched, right?

[UltimaAvalon]

No it was frank OMGUS voting everyone

a falsely accused townie is allowed to defend himself
Xite says he knows I am 100% scum

that is 100% a lie

No it was because he was self-destructive. You're quickly approaching that point. Nowhere does Xite say "I 100% know you're scum". She does 100% believe you to be scum, however, and that is not something you can refute. Yes, you can defend yourself, but "nuh uh" is not a valid defense. And that's basically what your argument against Xite has become

[UltimaAvalon]

Question for everyone playing this game I am going to give you 2 scenarios and you tell me which is scummier

Scenario 1 - Player A posts reason for his vote on player B and never changes his vote

Scenario 2 - Player A pushes hard to lynch Player B and once there are a bunch of votes leaves the bandwagon because

all of a sudden for no reason whatso ever, that person is not scummy anymore

Player B responded to Player A's gambit in such a way that convinced Player A that Player B wasn't quite as scummy as Player A originally thought

1, most def

Also @UA - in this game all anyone has is their word and the only way somebody can defend themselves is to say Nuh Uh, if I had some other way to prove I am pro town I gladly would but I can't.

You have to convince me, and everyone else who has no idea what your role is that you have a pro-town role. "Nuh uh" does not accomplish this. You have to convince us that you are less scummy than the persons you believe to be scum. "Nuh uh" does not accomplish this.

also Xite is a gril? that explains a lot

I have no idea. Xite seems like a male name, but small Powerpuff Girls av has me lean towards female.

[UltimaAvalon]

so somebody who has found reasons to think that person is scum and wants them lynched and will not change because he still finds that person scummy, is scummy to you?

That's basically the definition of tunnel-vision, which is the cancer that's killing this game. Yes.

so you think flip flopping is not scummy?

There's a huge difference between changing a vote and flip-flopping Xite has voted two people today. Wraith and you. That's not flip-flopping

And don't change my words, the words you added in to scenario 2 is not accurate

Whether you agree with the reason or not, Xite gave a reason for the switch, which made your "scenarios" a misrepresentation of the truth, thus warranting my change.

[UltimaAvalon]

Oh ya, almost forgot

Dana, don't investigate based on suggestion, or we'll wind up with a repeat of Night 1

or worse

kthx

[UltimaAvalon]

Another clue for me was when he was accused of being the Godfather, he did not deny it, he danced around it and asked if he did any research. In my experiences whenever somebody is accused of something, failure to deny first is usually a red flag.

example

Mom: I saw you steal the cookie
kid: are you sure you saw me and not somebody else - a better response is to just DENY it first. "No mom I did not steak the cookie"
Mom: yes it was you

This is so fucking stupid I don't even know where to start.

I like how everyone knows the maxim of "don't direct the cop", yet every game someone feels the need to breathlessly mention it, as if any cop, despite also knowing said maxim (and probably being an egotistical douche), wouldn't already know he wasn't going to be directed anyway by some random chatter. High drama.

Are we playing the same game?

Oh, hey guys, Dana here. You know, the claimed cop? Hey, remember that guy you told me to investigate? Well, he died. But I investigated him anyway. He was Town, but you guys knew that already. kbai

[UltimaAvalon]

Personally, I'd rather lynch Robbie than Wraith. If Wraith is still the wagon-leader come late Thursday, then that's where I'll put my vote.

[UltimaAvalon]

Spaghetti throwing and WIFOM are not scum traits.

When should a Townie use WIFOM or...spaghetti throwing

[UltimaAvalon]

and @UA - first off the use of WIFOM is such a lame argument because basically people try and defend themselves and they are automatically accused of WIFOM

if you think Spaghetti throwing is scum, there are people in this game throwing more than me.

You'll notice I neither accused you of these actions, nor called you scummy in my post. I did ask, if they aren't Scum traits, how should Town utilize them?

[UltimaAvalon]

Robb, and other people, please stop answering points inside the quote. Its extremely difficult to read that way, especially when it keeps going back and forth. Thanks

Rob, first off, the reason you "Dancing around Godfather makes him Godfather" thing is stupid, is because liars don't try to dance around the issue. they completely shut down the issue so that they can leave the topic as soon as possible, for the longer they stay on topic, the more likely they will be found out. Or, since you love analogies so much, if I stick my finger in the cake frosting, and mother asks if I swiped my finger in the cake frosting, my response will be "No, I did not swipe my finger in the cake frosting." If I answered "Are you sure it was me and not my brother?", it will leave the topic up for discussion, allowing mother to reveal that brother isn't home, thus casting more suspicion on me.

Second, yes, a lot of Xite's accusations of you using WIFOM are correct. Particularly your constant use of self-meta from a site that doesn't exist, and the "This is how I play as Town" bits.

Third, the Wiki is a guide, not a rulebook. "This is not how the wiki says this works" is not a valid argument.

Finally, Xite's gambit was a null gambit. It was scummy for derailment, but it also brought too much attention to himself to be a valid scum tactic.

[UltimaAvalon]

Anti: you know Deadline is in 3 days, right? Hurry the fuck up maybe?

Also, Frank being unable to see the point of my post is not the same thing as a Strawman. Also keep in mind that he doesn't know what Ad Hominim means.

General: I will not support a Wraith lynch, even if it comes to deadline

[UltimaAvalon]

Robb, and other people, please stop answering points inside the quote. Its extremely difficult to read that way, especially when it keeps going back and forth. Thanks

Rob, first off, the reason you "Dancing around Godfather makes him Godfather" thing is stupid, is because liars don't try to dance around the issue. they completely shut down the issue so that they can leave the topic as soon as possible, for the longer they stay on topic, the more likely they will be found out. Or, since you love analogies so much, if I stick my finger in the cake frosting, and mother asks if I swiped my finger in the cake frosting, my response will be "No, I did not swipe my finger in the cake frosting." If I answered "Are you sure it was me and not my brother?", it will leave the topic up for discussion, allowing mother to reveal that brother isn't home, thus casting more suspicion on me.

Second, yes, a lot of Xite's accusations of you using WIFOM are correct. Particularly your constant use of self-meta from a site that doesn't exist, and the "This is how I play as Town" bits.

Third, the Wiki is a guide, not a rulebook. "This is not how the wiki says this works" is not a valid argument.

Finally, Xite's gambit was a null gambit. It was scummy for derailment, but it also brought too much attention to himself to be a valid scum tactic.

until you vote someone else besides yourself. Keep your opinions of me typing inside the quotes to yourself

it is easier for ME to respond that way, you can't read it or have trouble responding to it, not MY problem

I'm voting myself for a reason. Second, yes, it is your problem if I have to work harder to work out your points, especially if Xite responded the exact same way, forcing me to sift through who said what. I'd even go so far as to say it's scummy to do so, since it's incredibly easy to miss information that way.

Good job quoting the whole post then ignoring 90% of it though.

Vote: Extension plox

[UltimaAvalon]

Hey Wraith, before you go, could you place a vote on Rob in case you're pleasantly surprised?

[UltimaAvalon]

I'd prefer a Rob lynch, but if me and xite are still the only two who want to kill him by tomorrow, I promise I'll join the Mysterio wagon before deadline hits

[UltimaAvalon]

Unvote
Vote: Mysterio

Unvote Extension

I'm done till Day 3

[UltimaAvalon]

Vote: UltimaAvalon

Excuse me while I do some reading.

[UltimaAvalon]

Yes, I know. I put it there.

[UltimaAvalon]

UA, today you need to add something. I don't care if you have gut suspicions that you can't quite crystallise, you need to add something concrete to proceedings.

In all honesty, I'd much rather sit back and let everything happen around me, while saying useless quips like. "You're all mostly idiots for putting Dana in the position he's in, and then lynching him for it" or "I don't think Robb knows what Active Lurking is" or even "Wraith is still not scum and Gorrad needs a bop on the nose for denouncing NK speculation".

but that's just me

[UltimaAvalon]

Tell me, what do you make of Gorrad?

Gorrad has a good head on his shoulders. He doesn't post as much as others, but the times he does, they usually make good points. He was absolutely right to call us out for lynching without a claim, which I shoulda done on my L-2 vote but forgot. The only thing I find wrong with his play is bits like

Pre-emptive IGMEOY: The first person to speculate on the night actions.

If memory serves, he made a similar post Day 2, refusing to acknowledge 2 scum teams.

Overall, A strong player, whose bits that I found off or scummy aren't enough to counteract his overall aura of townlieness

[UltimaAvalon]

Do you think that possible information gained from speculation is worth the distraction it provides from scumhunting?

I've always been of the opinion that good speculation is a better supplement to scumhunting than no speculation at all. I can see you coming from a position that too much speculation, speculation going the wrong direction, or relying on Night speculation entirely can be a distraction or a scum smokescreen, but to forbid it outright denies us a valuable tool.

[UltimaAvalon]

Holy hell, well there you are, UA, it's nice to see you again.
If you're taking requests, I'd like to know how you feel about these people
Flinter
Hip-hop
Kise
Robbie
Bunny
and the two new guys (DH and.... I don't remember the other one)

Flinter is a person who has opinions and posts them occasionally - Neutral
Hip-Hop has a Spiderman av, and realized that if you post like UA, people dont care about you. Except it only works for UA apparently. - Neutral
Kise thinks theres a GF, and found out how to post the Nike sign - Maybe scum
Robbie is Scum - Scum
Bunny posts more often than most people who have been accused of not posting, and yet I still dont know much about her. A master of fluff - Maybe town.
Pacman is Scum - Scum
DH has a dog avatar. I miss Reck - Neutral

[UltimaAvalon]

Wait, I take that back. Bunny hammered Mysterio an hour after I put him at L-2. Super duper mega scum

[UltimaAvalon]

What makes Wraith's WIFOM more believeable than Dana's WIFOM?

[UltimaAvalon]

JDodge was Scum, @.@ was Scum, you're Scum

[UltimaAvalon]

What makes Wraith's WIFOM more believeable than Dana's WIFOM?

Is this targeted at Robb, or can I answer?

The former, but go ahead if you'd like

[UltimaAvalon]

I think Dana is a terribad Cop. I think Scum are counting on him being a terribad player, and using their powers on other, better targets, while they wait for his crappy play to get him killed. I'm willing to give Dana one more night before putting him on the chopping block

[UltimaAvalon]

Wait, I take that back. Bunny hammered Mysterio an hour after I put him at L-2. Super duper mega scum

So if you have someone this scummy, why don't you vote?

Reasons. Also, Robb is the play. He put the L-1 vote without a claim a few minutes before bunny, and has been the scummiest player in the game since D2

[UltimaAvalon]

EBWOP: And by "few minutes" I mean an hour

[UltimaAvalon]

UA, you think one more day will change jack squat? Why? I'm willing to listen.

Maybe it won't change anything. Maybe it will. I see that the last two nights he made horrible choices for investigations. I'd like to see a 3rd investigation from him before putting him on the block. Besides, lynching him means we don't lynch robb. If we don't lynch Robb, then Robb keeps posting. And I don't think I can handle that.

[UltimaAvalon]

UA, you think one more day will change jack squat? Why? I'm willing to listen.

Maybe it won't change anything. Maybe it will. I see that the last two nights he made horrible choices for investigations. I'd like to see a 3rd investigation from him before putting him on the block. Besides, lynching him means we don't lynch robb. If we don't lynch Robb, then Robb keeps posting. And I don't think I can handle that.

And you think tonight he'll make a better choice? Definition of insanity.

I want to see what that choice is

Can we kill Rob please?

[UltimaAvalon]

Those who disagree with lynching Dana today: Are you with me on lynching him before D6 if nothing changes regarding him?

If nothing changes, I'm in for lynching him tomorrow

[UltimaAvalon]

Still gotta read 3 pages.

Make sure you read the part where you hammered the doc before letting him claim, then come back and make a hell of an excuse for it

[UltimaAvalon]

I saw that as him affirming his position/statement after your rebuttal on "Mr. I'm-done-talking-to-you-and-everyone-else-till-I'm-dead-or-prodded-oh-wait-here's-another-5-posts-in-a-row-there-now-I'm-done"

[UltimaAvalon]

UA, you know your vote's still on you?

I am. I'm waiting for a vote count, which I've been promised is coming soon. Expect my vote to switch after it happens

[UltimaAvalon]

Bolded the very definition of policy lynching.

You do not state they're scummy, just that they're bad players.

Voting/lynching bad players is not a policy lynch. Voting Player X in every game you play with Player X because you think he's a bad player is a policy lynch.

[UltimaAvalon]

But it isn't a policy lynch if there's no policy behind it.

bah, it's not worth arguing over semantics.

[UltimaAvalon]

UA, you know your vote's still on you?

I am. I'm waiting for a vote count, which I've been promised is coming soon. Expect my vote to switch after it happens

You shouldn't need a vote count for a vote.

Most don't. And in most games, I don't. But in this one, I do. Even without voting, you simply have to read my posts to see that I've been supporting his lynch since Day 2

[UltimaAvalon]

God dammit Lowell

Unvote
Vote: Robb

Claim and stop grasping at straws, good sir

[UltimaAvalon]

You're mistaken. Your claim wont determine whether or not you're lynched. Your claim, then your flip, will tell us how to proceed with Day 4. If you're really Town, you'll gladly and voluntarily give us the info we need to make sound judgements, not kick and scream like a 3 year old whose parents won't give him money for the ice cream truck. Painting Xite as some sinister sorcerer and saying bits like "I'm no longer responding to Xite" or "Prod me when I'm L-2" is not the former

With Pacman's vote you're now at L-2. Please claim