Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[Furcolow]

hi guys
so, a few questions for you all:
1) how did you start playing mafia?
2) Are you better as scum, or town? Why?
3) What are your thoughts on the current setup?

1: I saw it advertised on a forum. Silly, I know, but here I am! I'm glad I've gotten involved in such a fun game.
2: I am better as town, because I know I am innocent, and my night actions are superfluous.
3: I expect something in between normal and theme, nothing too fancy, nothing like stars aligned, but definitely intriguing.

[Furcolow]

hi guys
so, a few questions for you all:
1) how did you start playing mafia?
2) Are you better as scum, or town? Why?
3) What are your thoughts on the current setup?

1) I started playing mafia on a WoW forum board, when they stopped I moved to a Diablo forum board untill I discovered MS.net a few months ago and finally joined a game.
2) Scum. I tend to play aggresivly and that got me lynched a couple of times when I was the cop or the doc.
3) I usually only play in themed games because I like those setups and I'm glad I was in time to join this one. The theme sounds really interesting. Can't really say more because I only know my role and I have no clue what others might have. Well some clue maybe given it's set in the Cold War

Hey Sathoris! Glad to see you kept the avatar you used during my game, that avatar is awesome.

Vote: Sathoris

because he is crazy good at playing SK Sheriff with a jailkeeping ability and dayshots. Trust me on this one.

1)same diablo forum Sathoris is mentioning. Read the wiki here for some ideas, and then started playing here.
2)My record indicates scum. I feel like it is easier to ACT town than to BE town. This probably says something crazy f*cked up about me psychologically.
3)This question bothers me. I'm unclear what about the setup other than our own roles you are referring to. If it's just our own roles, this question is dangerously close to massive role fishing.

@Furc: What did you expect question 1 to add to the game? What did you expect from question 3?

1)just trying to break the ice
2)
3)and break the game

Mine is no fabrication. PoisonIvy's response was atrocious.

I agree on RQS being useless, but it's not really a scum tell. Definitely doesn't win townie points though.

i

disagree

rqs>rvs for town from my perspective
although it is not much better

How so is stating i played a alternative game and disclosing that i believe there maybe a miller bad exactly?

Your blatant lack of knowledge about this set up is scummy, especially your suggestion that the mafia is Soviet without giving any reasons. This setup is not Soviets vs. Americans. Town are just trying to eliminate the threats to town, it's the other factions who are concerned about what country you're from.

Right. However, I don't believe we should scream at the top of our lungs where we are from

1) how did you start playing mafia?
2) Are you better as scum, or town? Why?
3) What are your thoughts on the current setup?

1) Well, you see, I invented the game, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.
2) Scum. As you can tell by my wiki-record, I am most often scum, and have never lost a game as scum.
3) Beware that you actually brush up a bit on the Cold War. Who was with who? Who wasn't?

does Fahrenheit 451 count?

NO MORE ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS

I am completely serious about that, I have no idea how many times I have to reitterate it.

However, I don't get why it's bad to answer these questions? The answers put some information out on the table, which can be cross-referenced against later in the game. I guess I'll withhold mine in case I'm missing something.

There is nothing to be gained by town in the answers to the questions. They will however create quite a bit of noise, and possibly hint at a role or two given their response, if someone answers something that eventually becomes obvious VT doesnt know.

Breaking them down...

1 - Completely irrelevant to the game. Doesnt even add to experience reads much.
2 - This is a great noise creator, and again will add nothing to scumhunting. It also can start to create some case pushing on responses as opposed to actual scumhunting, unlikely with this question, but potential is there.
3 - The one I really hate. This game looks like scum probably has a decent ammount of information since it appears both US and Soviet can be town aligned. If that is true there are quite a few ways for scum faction(s) to exist, if someone answers this with high accuracy, it can be a big point to scum in thinking they are a power role, since they are a second tier setup role. To explain the tier things, you have Scum-Town Power-VT in how much they know about the setup. Usually scum roles heavily suggest what town roles are around, town roles can usually make a decent guess at the setup, VT is in the dark. There are SO many ways this question can benifit scum, and so few it can benifit town.

I still want the furcolow wagon over a PI one. I like what smargret pointed out about jmj too, who also is an acceptable wagon. Conflicted on the PI wagon, have a VI-ish read so am going to abstain on joining it until I get something clearer down. I can see town or scum saying everything she has.

You don't see town-motivation from trying to game the setup?
Tell me this, also: Do you expect I would have collaborated with my scumbuddies, if i had any, before posting?
because I posted immediately.

It's a theme game, here more than elsewhere, people will want to talk about setup and flavor. Especially when setup/flavor has already been strongly hinted at by the mod.

Hence why I asked question 3 for the town...

I don't see how RQS is detrimental if people answer casually, and don't give away their roles. Is it my fault for asking questions, and for trying to steer away from the senseless RVS? It has already forced a few bandwagons as opposed to random voting/FoS, although that is still somewhat going on.

I am suspicious of LlamaFluff for his black/white reaction to the RQS. Only siths deal in absolutes, kind of thing. The townie reaction, in my opinion, is more along the lines of what Scott Brosius said. He was confused, wishy-washy on it, and then voted me.

I have a brief history with him, as apparently I do with someone else from a game I replaced into, so I'm not going to read too much into his vote on me.

@GhostWriter, LlamaFluff will get it when he sees it.

I think he makes a good argument about question three though and I do believe that speculation of the setup so early on D1 benefits anti-town roles the most by far. The first two questions though, to get things going, I don't see anything wrong if people want to answer them.

here is another townie-style-response
he has been brainwashed by llamafluff, or he actually believes that, but he KNOWS that he can't be for sure which team it is bad for, so his comment is ambiguous. "i think" he makes a good argument, not "he makes a good argument". "i do believe" that speculation of the setup so early... not "speculation on the setup so early"...
see his uncertainty?
llamafluff, however, is not uncertain

i'm not sure what to make of that, though.

Llama, what's your take on the PoisonIvy situation?

I have no good read on it yet. If I had to guess I would put her as slightly leaning town, but its a shot in the dark more then anything else. As I already said, some of the things she said I can see both town and scum saying when they get flustered. I am fully content to push other people and watch it develop.

of course you are
you are willing to lynch just about anyone who is town, i'd say.

I'm not CERTAIN you are scum, though, and I have meta on PI

She walls as town, and I have yet to see a wall from her
until I see a good, solid, town wall from her, I will be voting her

vote: pi

[Furcolow]

PoisonIvy posts endless walls of fluff as town
I have not seen that
I have seen the icy-hearted irrationality of a cold-blooded-killer

[Furcolow]

You don't see town-motivation from trying to game the setup?
Tell me this, also: Do you expect I would have collaborated with my scumbuddies, if i had any, before posting?
because I posted immediately.

You dont see how it will help scum more then town? The game is way to closed to try and "game the setup". Moreso then regular games given how ambiguous it is.

Also scum have daytalk? Never knew scum could daytalk...

I am suspicious of LlamaFluff for his black/white reaction to the RQS. Only siths deal in absolutes, kind of thing. The townie reaction, in my opinion, is more along the lines of what Scott Brosius said. He was confused, wishy-washy on it, and then voted me.

Hah... im a very black and white person in reads. Clarity is key. You are seriously arguing that being solid on a reaction is scummier then fence sitting?

I throught it would be more then a few pages before I figured out why you were a policy lynch of so many people.

I'm a policy lynch because I disagree with you? Thanks for the ad hominem, bro.
Not.

Anyways, I feel like I am always in the dark on MafiaScum as to what the implied setups are. I wasn't sure how closed/open it was, and I wanted to be in the loop.

One more town-aligned-player being conscious is pro-town, and I was trying to achieve consciousness.

[Furcolow]

I'm a policy lynch because I disagree with you? Thanks for the ad hominem, bro.
Not.

Thanks for the correct representing of what I said bro.
Not.

I am getting annoyed that you are basically OMGUSing what I said because I attacked you with conviction. Other people are apparently not scummy because they sounded very unsure of themselves, while when I say "fur is scum" you say im scum for it. That is what is not making sense, and where the comment came from.

Anyways, I feel like I am always in the dark on MafiaScum as to what the implied setups are. I wasn't sure how closed/open it was, and I wanted to be in the loop

Setups are different from game to game... unless there is a mechanic that begs for a certain role to exist, the only hints tend to come from PRs and role wording. When you start getting into the skinny of the setup early, its very easy to tell who has inside role information and who doesnt, both scum and town PRs have some.

You also ignored my comment on you apparently having daytalk. Flat out you say that you posted immediately instead of confiring with your partners, which would mean that scum has daytalk to be able to confer, yet... I cant remember anything saying scum has daytalk.

um, you're the one misrepresenting. I didn't say you're scum because you said I'm scum, I said you're probably scum because of your direct NO to the RQS. I haven't ever seen someone simply refuse to talk casually. You must be some sort of social pariah of a slot.

Well, I assumed they have daytalk. I forgot I even said that, but I won't backtrack on it. All I was saying was that I figured I would wait on some coaching, regardless of whether or not it came in-thread or out, if I was scum.

I didn't do that.

[Furcolow]

That post from Furc is just bad. First, while town could gain some information from speculating on the setup at this point in the game, there is no way that town gains more information than scum does. Giving scum information is only good if you give town more information.

Then let's look at the Ivy vote. Ivy is scum because she hasn't posted a wall of text yet - on page 3, when the game has been open for less than 24 hours. Leaving validity of meta arguments aside, it is unreasonable to expect a wall at this point in the game. Furthermore,

saying

that the lack of a wall post is the motivation behind your vote means that if Ivy is scum, all she has to do is manufacture a wall post and she'll be cleared as town in Furc's view.

Consider also this snippet from Furc's wall:

I am suspicious of LlamaFluff for his black/white reaction to the RQS. Only siths deal in absolutes, kind of thing. The townie reaction, in my opinion, is more along the lines of what Scott Brosius said. He was confused, wishy-washy on it, and then voted me.

So you, as town presumably, posted something to which the townie reaction is to vote you? How is that pro-town? Hint: It's not.

UNVOTE: jmj
VOTE: Furc

ok
1) I disagree:
a) there are more town
b) therefore, town can learn more collectively

2) my meta argument is valid, and is employable.
a) she has walled this early into a game as town, and is not doing that
b) if she walls as scum, to "counter" this, she is just leaving herself open to slip up more
c) it is harder for scum to fake being town than town because town are obv town to theirselves

3) his townie reaction to vote me is different from the point i was trying to make (scott's reaction)
he would have voted me regardless of whether or not I posted the RQS
I didn't know "RQS was scummy", and I feel like it leads to more discussion and wall-style-play which is pro-town

[Furcolow]

So basically, you WIFOM'd your way out of one corner and into another. And given the stance you've previously taken on ad hom attacks, I'm surprised you'd call someone a social pariah.

Now, how about you respond to my first post?

the way i worded it was actually somewhat asking him if that is how he is in real life/on ms because that is my take on him, and why he is acting so hurt, and inactive of casualness. It's either that, or he's likely scum in my eyes. It sucks he's "suspicious" of me, and I am not really certain about him.

It is actually too early in the game for poisonivy to have this many votes on her without me hearing more from other people. A ton of people haven't even gotten involved.

unvote

for now
I am going to put my vote on the first alphabetically to have not posted.

[Furcolow]

vote: beasts of the sea

[Furcolow]

Also, Artem, in your iso is 1 post
you call my rqs a "scumslip"
how is rqs, in the first post of the game, not null?

[Furcolow]

Well, I assumed they have daytalk. I forgot I even said that, but I won't backtrack on it. All I was saying was that I figured I would wait on some coaching, regardless of whether or not it came in-thread or out, if I was scum.

I didn't do that.

So how many games have you played where scum had daytalk? I have played for close to three years and can probably count the ones I have on one hand, most of those were nightless/deep south games. Have you played in any large themes before?

Also you are saying that you would have not even posted anything until someone told you to as scum?

the last game I was scum, I had daytalk, so I'm used to that.
I did not know they didn't have daytalk.
Sorry if my comments were skewed to be viewed as trying to organize amongst scum, that is not the case.

[Furcolow]

UNVOTE:

I'm having second thoughts about the PI wagon -- it's taken off a little too quickly for my tastes. I still think PI seems scummy, but in the past my scum reads have been pretty terrible, so I'm going to play this one by the numbers.

Furcolow is steadily becoming more and more scummy to me: the "meta" appraisal of PI, the whole RQS deal... and this.

I am going to put my vote on the first alphabetically to have not posted.

What?! It's WAY too early in the game to say who's a lurker and who just had a busy couple of days IRL. You're just trying to substitute a policy vote for actual scumhunting.

but me policy voting is actually the most pro-town thing i can do because i am not that good at this game

[Furcolow]

I didn't realize they had talking 24 hrs in
it doesn't matter, that was not my intention whatsoever, nor was rolefishing
i was trying to break the ice

unvote: beasts of the sea

nothing has really struck me as scummy other than not hearing from poison ivy

i hate to have been competing wagons with her D1 two times in a row, perhaps i should self vote

i am considering voting myself because it is detrimental to the town, but so is voting for me. I'm just going to have to trust in my own ability to scumhunt and pull off a win for the town.

vote: poisonivy

for the reason of survival.

[Furcolow]

you know, instead of voting me, you guys could ask me things

[Furcolow]

Well, I've seen her as town, and this is not her as town
I do not want to have to claim, but my survival is good for the town.

[Furcolow]

Well, I've seen her as town, and this is not her as town
I do not want to have to claim, but my survival is good for the town.

Who said anything about claiming? Can you link me to the meta you refer to?

how is my linking to the game in which she was town and walling helpful if you're going to be away for 2 days? that's like saying "give me a way to help me paint her as scum or defend her making me appear town when i'm not" to me

vote: julien

[Furcolow]

also, my wagon STARTER is off my wagon
everyone else on my wagon, besides smargaret and scott, are bandwagoning sheep.

the rekindling of my wagon is likely scum-motivated
smargaret actually asked me a few questions, so i have to dismiss her
brosius has played with me before, and didn't particularly leave a good taste in my mouth - i guess that was mutual.

admiral/sathoris, however, are sheep
so is the 3rd person who just voted me

llamafluff, what made you come off my wagon, since you started it?
don't you want to be implicated as WHY I DIED whenever I flip town-aligned?

[Furcolow]

Where did I claim any powerful ability? I am not claiming anything, even up until my lynch.
Sorry if you misconstrued something I said.
Go ahead, lynch me. I'm in too many games at the moment, anyways, and I don't really have any good suspects.

[Furcolow]

OK? So I'm saying I'm town because I don't know what to do other than respond, which I am doing

[Furcolow]

inb4 "no true scotsman"

ivy really does wall as town
she is not walling
i dont care what you label this as
i am trying to get scum lynched
if you dont like lynching scum, by all means, lynch me and see what happens
i will flip town
you will frown if you are town
and possibly get looked down upon
because i havent done anything wrong
and the case on me is that i've asked questions, or replied honestly

if i'm scummy, so be it. that's my meta. i'm an aggressive player.

[Furcolow]

Let's lynch David parker

[Furcolow]

I'm here

[Furcolow]

zzzzzzzz

[Furcolow]

I like early-game reaction-tests as town, PoisonIvy

[Furcolow]

i don't see how i have any suspicions i need to quell
if you have a problem with me reading... or typing... by all means
let me know the problem you have with me or with my play
and i will attempt to adjust it if necessary

[Furcolow]

unvote;
vote: poisonivy

fix your case on me?
i guess i'm not ruthless enough for you?
perhaps, you know, i'm not trying to steal the show

[Furcolow]

L-2

[Furcolow]

poisonivy-i didnt mean prodded by the mod, i meant prodded into doing a wall post by furcolow. sorry for the confusion.

unvote
vote furcolow

do you even suspect poisonivy? that seems like a total omgus vote by furcolow, or maybe just 'to save his own skin' as he said earlier. in any case, he is more anti-town than pi, and when he did his 'zzzzzzzzzzzzzz' post instead of defending himself i knew we were not going to get anything useful out of him.

i don't see how i have any suspicions i need to quell
if you have a problem with me reading... or typing... by all means
let me know the problem you have with me or with my play
and i will attempt to adjust it if necessary

respond to this, please, PR.

[Furcolow]

Also, I'm voting PI because of this logical fallacy:
"I would just like to point out Furcolow is abstaining from my wagon.
Ive seen him play as town and he is one who bounds ahead regardless of anyones welfare but his own."
The first sentence of her case

If she flips scum, which now she is at L-3 (don't let this wagon stall, guys), we have someone who is jumping off and trying to deter her wagon, putting me at L-9(?)

@PI

your play here is completely different from in Cookie Thief mafia, where you flipped town, while mine is very similar for the first couple pages - I dropped a few bombs on the town to get a reaction test, which worked against me and was ill-advised, which fits into my town meta

However, you have not been flailing and walling all over the thread, it feels more like you are getting coached and your wagon is getting deterred by Pappums Rat. I'm not pushing this as being a complete associative tell, as he really might have just wanted to flip flop three times in a row as town, but I view THAT as being way more anti-town if PoisonIvy flips scum (which I believe she will!)

[Furcolow]

Unvoting in and of itself is deterring the wagon. It was at L-2, now it is at L-3, and he is mudslinging on the 2nd most wagon while jumping on it. How is that not deterring? Every aspect of it SCREAMS deterring/buddying/scumteam to me.

If you don't hold stock in associative tells, that's fine, put me at L-8 or L-7 or whatever. I really don't mind dying in this game whatsoever, as the tone has been majorly snooty, my role is questionable, and I am from a country I don't want to be from.

[Furcolow]

you could respond to my first paragraph, too
that would be nice

[Furcolow]

im perfectly fine with a davidparker lynch
ive been saying that all game

[Furcolow]

good. trading a good town player for a detriment. I like that.

[Furcolow]

yeah, TMH is anti-town from my perspective, and you are a good player.

[Furcolow]

Sort of an embarrassing game for me, I really don't want to link to it.

[Furcolow]

I'm not ok lynching "anyone who isn't me"

[Furcolow]

na, you wouldn't ever sound like an idiot
and i am right here, ready to answer any question
i don't see how i am dodging anything important
if you feel smargaret is important, i guess we aren't on the same page, as i don't cater to scum

[Furcolow]

I love how all 3 votes on me were sheeped, and only pappums rat has even

tried

to defend his vote on me
It's really just laughable to me that I was even wagonned for RQS whatsoever. If anything, the town should thank me. RVS is a distraction.

[Furcolow]

I don't mind being wagoned. I'm here on my phone.

[Furcolow]

Pi you there?

[Furcolow]

vote: theadmiral

[Furcolow]

Artem, I am not playing behind my "supposed scum meta" whatsoever.
If you see me as unhelpful and scummy here, you should see me as scum.

Just sayin'.

[Furcolow]

What do you see the GW case as being, Lowell?
In your own words, please, not quoted from someone else.
IF you want to quote GhostWriter himself, though, go for it. Just don't sheep off of anyone else.

[Furcolow]

REALLY liking nachomomma and lowell on that last page
feels really town

[Furcolow]

the reasons for my last post are thus:

lowell answered directly, although mathematically and logically, the root of the problem with your buddy GhostWriter, Ad.
Admiral is scum on meta, GW probably because I believe Lowell in his post a page ago in his assessment. It was a very well written town-read post that I will definitely sheep

as

for the good of the town because of following your heart with town reads making more of a voting bloc and not being able to be outvoted by smaller numbers of scum. Though, of course, we wouldn't want the scum to infiltrate our town voting block, their sheer inability to properly cast votes and willingness to bandwagon will always come out. We will see if that is the case with GW so I'm going to

FoS GW

because I believe Lowell. Plain and simple. I am willing to get on this lynch if it comes close to deadline.

I am going to put my vote on the admiral if it isn't.
His meta will always show through for me when he is pressured, and I know that I can read him correctly.

vote: thadmiral

if i'm not. I need to read through a bit more thoroughly.

[Furcolow]

I don't really like LlamaFluff's 274

[Furcolow]

It feels like he is just dismissing something that could be important. The town reaction would be unsure in this scenario, whereas he is sure of PoisonIvy's alignment here.

[Furcolow]

It feels like he is just dismissing something that could be important. The town reaction would be unsure in this scenario, whereas he is sure of PoisonIvy's alignment here.

Are we back on the "confidence is a scumtell" page?

If I think PI is town (which I do) im going to say she is town, and not let her be lynched. Also how does that post have anything to do with PI-town since it was me saying GW is town (which I also believe).

I love how you have developed multiple townreads this early into the game. Smaller player list to work with than the rest of us?

[Furcolow]

unvote

[Furcolow]

what just happened between furc and ThAd?

I hammered him in Troll mafia, and I'm fairly certain I can read his meta. He was scum there, and I'm reading his play here... leaning town because of his reply to my pressure. Not sold 100% or anything, but I would see scum in gonnano/bvoigt/ghostwriter before I would in TheAd in terms of meta on "how scum act". TheAd just posts a little differently as scum. I'm guessing this is his town play, because it feels different to me.

Is anyone open to a nameclaim? Do you feel scum have fake nameclaims?

[Furcolow]

vote: jmj3000

for promising but not delivering.

[Furcolow]

unvote

ok, but it appears you were actively lurking, now.

[Furcolow]

Why would it be pointless? I disagree.

I'm liking RedCoyote. On that note, because it has more support now: UNVOTE: smargaret VOTE: GhostWriter

Also, scum most likely have fake nameclaims and/or not all of the names that they were given are scummy. Nameclaiming would be pointless.

[Furcolow]

Vote hopping isn't a scumtell IMO.

it depends on the player

[Furcolow]

llamafluff, i agree with the sentiment, but what are your reasons for suspecting those players, gonnano specifically?

[Furcolow]

vote: gonnano

[Furcolow]

Name claim is awful and only helps scum as others have mentioned.

LMP is participating more unprovoked. I find that the pop-in when mentioned after a few days of no activity is a good scum-tell as it shows that someone is monitoring the thread but not participating. That is much more interesting/scummy than just lurking. But usually scum go back into hiding, especially since nobody agreed with me it would have been a great opportunity to do that. Back to rat.

Unvote
Vote: pappums rat

I'm gonna be honest here, and say that's somewhat similar to my play at the moment. I am keeping tabs and up to date on things, but unless something goes completely by unnoticed or commented on, I will keep posting my opinions but haven't become actively engaged in scum hunting as of yet anyways. I think day 1 wagons and the day 1 lynch will typically be on someone rather randomly who gets bandwagoned for a slight slip-up or post-style/play-style issue anyways.

Very informative post. I was really null on you up until this point, congrats.

[Furcolow]

llamafluff, i agree with the sentiment, but what are your reasons for suspecting those players, gonnano specifically?

"I agree with you, but I have no idea why you suspect them, so why is that?"

Scum.

qft.

i honestly dont see why furcolow hasnt been lynched yet. iyam he is so obvscum it isnt even funny.

Possibly because any good player realizes I AM VERY EASY TO READ, because I only scumhunt as town. I find it very, very difficult to fake scumhunting when I know who the scum are. How can I wagon someone I know is innocent? It's just unnatural to me.

[Furcolow]

Backpedaling already? In the quote above you make it quite obvious that there is a clear distinction between PoisonIvy being "scummy", but Furcolow only being "anti-town". But before, you said nothing of the sort. HUGE difference. In fact, before you said clearly that Furcolow was becoming increasingly scummy. Nowhere in your observations of Furcolow did you say "anti-town" and your explanation that you cited only came after you were called out for it. If the PoisonIvy lynch falls through you will eat rope. If PoisonIvy does go through; you eat rope tomorrow.

"becoming increasingly scummy" is not the same as "Furcolow is scum". I am of the opinion that if someone does enough anti-town stuff, it contributes somewhat to the possibility of them being scum. Furcolow may tend to be anti-town regardless of alignment, but I think it's reasonable to say that as scum a player would exploit their meta to get by with as much anti-town behavior as possible. Hence me counting Furcolow's staggering amount of anti-town statements against him as points toward scumminess.
To recap: becoming and being are two different things.

Unless you have positively identified his VI play as specifically scum VI play, you are completely wrong. Saying "increasingly scummy" suggests his behavior has more scum motivation than before. But that's not what you said before. You are backpedaling.

You also say he is exploiting his anti-town meta; can you provide an example of where he does this?
[/quote]

He can't, because I have yet to do that. It's really, really hard for me to fake it.

[Furcolow]

@mod plz fix quote tags. Thanks.

For scum games, also add mini 1000, mafia holographica (my most recent one as scum), and some roman themed game where I was scum with TheButtonMan and the game lasted like 17 pages (in which I lost)

My scum meta is way more non-compliant, lurking, and uncontributing

I am going to say if I had to pick someone who I want lynched it would be smargaret. I feel like she has been pushing in way too many directions,

I disagree with you Ad, on where I'd say "this person might be town" when I'm town or "this person is scum" when I am scum. I do both regardless of alignment. I am actually a bit more cautious as town on slipping up than as scum. As scum I am sort of overly confident, lurking, and just assume people will believe I am town.

As town, I am really nervous to get mislynched, so I try to contribute. Trying to contribute ends up in looking like the contribution is forced, which reads as anti-town or scummy to some people through misinterpretation or misrepresentation, when in fact it is just the fact that I am going out of my way to comment to try to avoid any misunderstandings or misgivings at all, whatsoever.

hope that clarifies things. Thanks for the defense, ad. If I need a lawyer, I know where to turn. lol

[Furcolow]

unvote: gonnano

because even if people find him scummy, they're not voting him
interested to hear from pappums replacement
also believe PI should be replaced
interested in seeing jmj iso someone, also

[Furcolow]

also believe PI should be replaced

No prod first, just replaced without consideration? Why the rush? We've still got over 2 weeks left.

it was commented on
i read it, it wasn't necessarily my idea
why are you acting like it is?
are you pushing this because you, yourself are lurking? don't want lurkers attacked?
or are you just someone who doesn't stay up to date with thread topics?
if you're just making it based on semantics, by all means, continue

[Furcolow]

Unvote

Currently reading and re-reading. I would like to mention that I am neither Soviet nor American, but that I am town nonetheless.

For some reason, I don't believe you. Seeing someone do this makes me realize that I shouldn't do this.

[Furcolow]

A case like that doesn't hold much merit on day 1.

Sheeping/bandwagoning a GOOD CASE is not a scum tell in the slightest. It's also pretty hard to scum hunt from your first few posts on day 1, and not something you even want everyone doing or mass confusion ensues. Changing his read suddenly on Furc seems something that town is more likely to do imo. Iso5 is just you twisting his post to seem scummy.

The connection to gonnano is a decent point, but it's still a stretch and not something to base a day 1 lynch on. The case on ThAd is meh. It's just not strong enough for me. I'd rather lynch those players who have made major slips or been actually really scummy such as PI/Furc and now JMJ.

Yeah, and I also agree with him when he said his iso 21 was an attempt to appear town
that is what caused me to realize this might be ad's town play. I will see if we have any relevant breakthroughs in which I will want to vote him, but I doubt I'll pursue wagonning him at this time. The case isn't bad, but it just feels like it isn't right to me. Very nice attempt, +town points, but I'm not sheeping it.

If you want to wagon bvoigt or gonnano, someone who appears to be buddying him to you, though, I would be a little more interested. Much moreso on gonnano, as bvoigt has kept his nose relatively clean.

[Furcolow]

Read his entire iso. Pay particular attention to the last few posts. Then see if your question still makes sense.

I'm dense. Please explain.

Anyway, after reading LMP's case and doing a more thorough ISO, I'd say ThAd is fairly likely to be scum. While PI is still my first choice, this is a much better alternative to lynching jmj.

UNVOTE: PoisonIvy
VOTE: ThAdmiral

I really don't like this post
1) could be bussing
2) defends jmj on day 1, useless
3) late to get off PI bandwagon, into another bandwagon and sheeping
this is the first post I've seen from bvoigt I didn't like, though he has been making my gut twinge
I retract that I would jump onto gonnano faster, I would be willing to wagon bvoigt due to his lack of scumhunting, and his inability to vote for someone on his own.

FoS BVOIGT

[Furcolow]

why do you view that as "this guy is scum", LMP?
I actually feel like he made a good push, it is scumhunting, and though it ends weakly I feel that it is more a result of how stretching his case

appears

to be.

[Furcolow]

I have seen ad as scum, and I don't believe this is it, but if I'm wrong it won't really surprise me

too much

, as I have no idea as of his alignment other than what my heart is telling me. I don't feel like he would alter his play by being pressured as town to the point where he would read as scum, though, so I actually like him being pressured. However, I won't be voting him, and I'm happy putting my vote back on gonnano, even though I don't even really find him to be

that

suspicious.

I disagree that only jmj or TheAd should be up for lynch. How many players do we have again? How many scum? We shouldn't do into this with tunnel-vision, LMP, and you have to admit it is far more town to scumhunt, pressure, and counterwagon than it is to sheep/bandwagon, dont you think?

If it is getting close to deadline, I would be ok voting theadmiral just to secure a lynch, but I'm just not reading him as being scum. Bvoigt is right on there being a lot of support vocally for a gonnano lynch (See the above post), without people

actually voting

what's up with that?
if you're going to say he has associative tells with people, then by all means. If you believe that, I actually would give TheAdmiral another looking at considering his "he's a good wagon BUT... i'm going to wait for more information"

even if i am kinda doing that right now, I would have wagon analysis and i'm assuming that gonnano will flip scum... in which case a couple of people will be screaming incrimination to me, even thadmiral. Given that I have been reading him as town, I feel this is null at the time, but if gonnano flips scum, I would be more than willing to lynch thadmiral. Perhaps I should just flip flop them? Lynch theadmiral now, and if he's scum, lynch gonnano?

The reason I

don't

want to do this is because scum buddy town, not vice versa so much

/rant

[Furcolow]

Feysal, the length you take to try and break the game will directly influence my read on you.
Welcome to the game, by the way.

[Furcolow]

Furc is hilarious.

Anyways, I won't be happy with a non-JMJ/PI lynch today at this point.

I'm actually agreeing with this sentiment
Neither one has really added anything substantive to the game

[Furcolow]

@Everyone else: Can you give any reason why Furcolow should not be lynched after all this?

I still think he town-telled here:

the last game I was scum, I had daytalk, so I'm used to that.
I did not know they didn't have daytalk.
Sorry if my comments were skewed to be viewed as trying to organize amongst scum, that is not the case.

He could have just pointed out that scum did have daytalk, so it seems that he actually didn't know they had daytalk for 24 hours. I know you mentioned that Magna and HackerHuck faked something similar in a previous game, but MOI and HH are both experienced, outstanding players...I really don't see Furc gambiting like that.

thanks
i was going to have to use the "you're just mad because I beat you as scum, so you are improperly riding my ass and viewing me in a different light than you were going to be" defense. Thanks for the defense, I don't even feel a need to post a detailed defense now.

Considering I'm in multiple games, and really split up my time terribly, having just read a Feysal-wall that wasn't meant to break the game but was really derived from a policy-lynch is completely different than I have seen out of him as town. I feel like it was scummy and ill-motivated. What do you think, bvoigt?

unvote
vote: Feysal

[Furcolow]

fair point RC
ill join you

vote: amrum

[Furcolow]

lowell is effectively trying to quell the momentum of myself voting someone who is probably being replaced as scum because they didn't fit their town meta as scum. It's tough to fake it.

I am viewing Lowell, then, as being Amrum's partner-in-crime, trying to wagon jmj a town-VI.

[Furcolow]

"if it comes to that" implies bussing
- going to lay down, will grill you from my phone

pretty sure you just scumslipped

[Furcolow]

Hey, Furcolow... Remember these?

You know, instead of voting me, you guys could ask me things

I am here, ready to answer any question.
I don't see how I am dodging anything important.
If you feel smargaret is important, I guess we aren't on the same page, as I don't cater to scum.

When you were being wagoned, you wanted to be asked questions. However, when questions were asked, you kept dodging them and often called whoever questioned you scum, like smargaret in that above quote.

I was going to have to use the "you're just mad because I beat you as scum, so you are improperly riding my ass and viewing me in a different light than you were going to be" defense. Thanks for the defense, I don't even feel a need to post a detailed defense now.

Considering I'm in multiple games, and really split up my time terribly, having just read a Feysal-wall that wasn't meant to break the game but was really derived from a policy-lynch is completely different than I have seen out of him as town. I feel like it was scummy and ill-motivated. What do you think, bvoigt?

So, instead of the excuse you used to get out of answering smargaret, you're trying to use another.

And

you claim to suspect me in response. Exactly like I said in my case you've been doing.

Don't think I would not notice your use of rhetoric to try and discredit my case, by calling it "improperly riding your ass" and "derived from a policy-lynch". Your play in this game has been intensely scummy, and having seen your scum play, I strongly believe this is it. Your attempt to wriggle out of answering for your play is both pathetic and obvious.

Your accusation that I would be scum for not devoting my time and energy into breaking the game is ridiculous. I tried that in Mafia Holographica, but that was a heavily themed game with special mechanics that could be gamed. This game is much closer to normal mafia games, and trying to break this setup would be a colossal waste of time. Here I will hunt scum, and you are, by a wide margin, the scummiest person in the entire game.

Questions:

1. What caused the flip-flop in your attitude toward claiming? You started by vaguely role fishing, then spoke against claiming, then suggested claiming yourself.
2. Why did you lie about your meta? I've seen two cases where you used self-meta to try to appear town, when I have seen you behave exactly the same as scum. In fact, I have seen you behave that way only as scum.
3. Why do you believe smargaret is scum?
4. Why did you not give reasons for suspecting ThAdmiral, jmj3000 and gonnano when you voted them? Did you think it was reasonable to vote jmj3000 for not delivering, only two hours after his promise of content?
5. Why did you want DavidParker lynched? Why did you lie about saying that all game? If you wanted him lynched, why did you not vote him? How could you want him lynched when, according to your own words, you did not have a read on him?

I have no idea why other players have allowed you to get away with your play this long. I won't let the matter rest. I require answers, and I require them today. I won't be satisfied with you stalling for time, waiting for night so you can consult with fellow scum.

You said you were ready to answer any questions. I'm asking questions now, and I want your answers.

He could have just pointed out that scum did have daytalk, so it seems that he actually didn't know they had daytalk for 24 hours. I know you mentioned that Magna and HackerHuck faked something similar in a previous game, but MOI and HH are both experienced, outstanding players... I really don't see Furc gambitting like that.

I'm not really sold by this. What MoI and HH did was not much of a gambit, they just claimed not to know scum had daytalk. All Furcolow would have to do here is claim ignorance, and truth be told, Furcolow being ignorant would be completely natural. Even he would've understood that claiming knowledge that the scum had no daytalk would've looked bad in his position.

My suspicions and vote will stay. I still want to hear answers from Furcolow.

First off, thanks for the ad hominem. Still resentful that I bested you as scum? I thought so.
Anyways, on to your puny case. Smargaret is scum, if someone who is town wants to ask me questions (like I believe you are), I will answer them. I made the rest of my post, just to come back to this one. I knew this would take the most time, and I wanted to answer fully and not strawman.

The reason there is a difference between you and smargaret in terms of me responding is because I wasn't really sure about your slot. I am still not really sure about your alignment. The size of your posting screams town, but the wrathful-vengefulness of wanting to lynch someone for a prior finished game just doesn't suit you, Feysal.

If you really, really believe that I'm scum trying to twist your words into something they're not, and out-rhetoric you linguistically or through my superior dialect, I guess you're not familiar with my scum play as much as you believe you are. That is the only explanation I can find other than you pursuing something you needed to do a game ago... not in this one.

1)I am for nameclaiming, not countryclaiming. If we are going to claim, I want it to be fully. I do not like lukewarmth.
It is not a flip-flop to me, regardless of how others see this.
2) I did not feel I was lying about my meta. I guess YOU know MY meta more than ME? Is that what you're implying? Because I'm not buying it. In fact, I'm not buying

anything

you're selling. Your questions feel weighted, forced, and a day late and a dollar short.
3) I have explained that it is just a suspicion. Why do you care? NachoMamma/ScottBrosius/myself/I'm sure other people are just gut-style suspicious of her. I don't feel like she is adequately scumhunting, and I feel she is fishing for good easy bandwagons and is trying to drive a mislynch by stroking the fire. Her comments scream caps lawkz, and her tone is faked and doesn't feel town to me. I don't know how else to explain it. I'll admit it is weak, and it might just be personal bias.
4) I did provide reasoning for voting gonnano, even if I voted him RVS style at one point. You must not have really read my iso or my posts in context. I unvoted ThAdmiral, and have even been defending him since that point. His response to my pressure-vote was adequate in proving to me he is likely town - he doesn't post like that when I've seen him as scum. I am very familiar with his play. My vote on jmj is because he is actively lurking and promising when he isn't delivering. I'm more than willing to replace my vote on him on d2, or even to tack it on to him if the Amrun wagon dies out... he could easily be scum with all the excuses he has been dishing out.
5) Just because I vote someone, or say I want them lynched, doesn't mean that is even the case. Hence why I've said my admiral vote was a "pressure-vote", my davidparker FoSs were more pressure-FoSs, when I really had a null read on him. I have no idea as to his alignment. Since then, I've been leaning town, but I'm not really positive. He could easily be scum having fooled me.

lowell is effectively trying to quell the momentum of myself voting someone who is probably being replaced as scum because they didn't fit their town meta as scum. It's tough to fake it.

I am viewing Lowell, then, as being Amrum's partner-in-crime, trying to wagon jmj a town-VI.

Town-VI??? That's a huge misrep. Nothing has indicated towards jmj being a VI yet.

I guess I'm confusing him with someone else. Reading him in iso, he is a lot more inactive and intelligent than I remember.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'm pretty sure GhostWriter is scum. More sure than almost anyone.

reasoning?
why does this appear like you are defending jmj in your last two posts?
I would be pretty happy lynching him to check yours and GW's alignments based upon who was pushing him and who was defending him. It would probably be worthless, but it's something to think about as a town.

@ smargret: I'm on my phone so it's hard for me to quote but I am responding to your post about me a page or so back.

Of all the posts by people voting me for their reasons this makes the most sense.
All I can say is that I'm not trying to excuse myself before the fact for lynching a townie. First off all I genuinely believe gw is scum, second of all if you check my meta you can confirm that I generally don't scumhunt. While there are times I do, for example I always like to make a case on someone if I replace in to a game, I am far more likely to jump on an existing case.
Furthermore it is untrue to suggest because of this that my belief in these cases are any less, or that I would be less culpable if it was indeed on a townie. I choose cases I believe in and expect to be held fully accountable for my choices.

This doesn't feel like TheAdmiral as scum to me. When he is scum he typically lurks by for the win, and is generally uncooperative. This reads as cooperative, even if it doesn't explain much. He is just like that. I don't see him as scum, and I haven't all game. Things might change, but I doubt it. My reads seem to have been a little off lately, though, so we'll see.

@Furc: While I don't agree with his case on you, Feysal seems sincere, and probably town.

The gonnano wagon doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Now that my top suspect has an active replacement, maybe we can get enough support to get her lynched. So far, Amrun's play looks just as bad as PI's.

tl;dr:

Amrun is fencesitting, voting a lurker, inconsistent, and scum.

UNVOTE: gonnano
VOTE: Amrun

I agree that Feysal could be town, and his effort surely shows that, but I am not familiar enough with his scum play for myself to bring him out of the lack of a read category. I have a couple town reads, and am suspicious of a few players (amrun (moreso due to PI and conflicting FoSs), smargaret somewhat, and possibly lowell(maybe just due to playstyle)). I am pretty confident that you are bandwagonning here for the sake of bandwagonning, though,

bvoigt. What is your response to that accusation?

Bvoigt: I don't like to form too solid opinions when I replace into a game. I don't experience the posts organically so I feel like my perspective is skewed by everyone else's suspicions. I try to come up with some new arguments, but I think it's better to do so as things unfold around me.

In general, though, I do not tunnel and my town reads are rare. Everyone is scummy until proven innocent, to me, and I keep an open mind about things.

So for the moment, I AM on the fence about several people. I am more certain about others, which I said first. Anyone 100% on their reads of EVERYONE or majority is either delusional or scum.

As for Fuzzman, he is scummy-looking to me but a read based on one post is hardly trustworthy, not to mention a lynch is unlikely at this point.

Amrun, you say everyone is scummy to you until proven innocent, but then you later say you are "sitting on the fence" on people?

Considering that is the reason Bvoigt was voting you, why do you feel confirming his suspicions, while in direct contradiction to something you posted herein, is a good defense?

Let me help you out - it isn't.
I'm happy with my vote.

In short, yes, you are tunneling. And for all that you're so convinced I'm scum that you won't vote anyone that I am EVEN THOUGH YOU FIND THEM SCUMMY TOO, you're not voting me. Why not?

I'll say it again (this is the third or fourth time):

I'd rather my vote go somewhere useful.

Your wagon will not build - I actually think I'm the only person here that finds you scummy (unless I missed someone saying such).

Smarg is pinging my scumdar, just with careful style of posting. More of a gut read than anything thus far. I like this post though, we need wagons or else we are not going to get anywhere today.

I completely agree with this, and you can see if you iso me I've been suspicious of her.
It is more gut for me as well, hence why my agreement is complete.
/hate to be agreeing with scott brosius!

[Furcolow]

First off, thanks for the ad hominem. Still resentful that I bested you as scum? I thought so.

What ad hominem?

calling someone a VI is ad hominem.

You really don't think you've been acting scummy in this game, despite much of the town voting you for it?

I have one vote on me, from you. People are not going to sheep you when I'm obviously town.

I can say that I'm positive that claiming either our names or nationalities this early would be a bad idea. Also, this really was not the impression I got when you spoke against claiming. You said you did not believe we should say where we are from, not like you wanted us to go further and claim our names too.

I don't find nameclaiming to be all that bad of an idea. the only game I've utilized it was a lopsided town win.

Your defense of Smargaret is noted, especially considering you just are fishing to see if my read on her has changed since you replaced in.

You are really trying to get me mislynched pretty hard.

Saying you want someone lynched out of the blue really is not an effective way of pressuring them. You just made yourself look like a fool, and when you said you had no read on him you made yourself look scummy. There are right ways and wrong ways of getting reads, and this way was definitely wrong.

who are you, the mafia god? everyone play your way?
you're not being judgmental here

a lot of your arguments are weak, if it is my turn to be judgmental.

Well, I got some answers. I can't say I'm satisfied with them, and I continue to consider you scummy. However, I recognize the town is unwilling to lynch you yet, and so I'll look elsewhere.

This just is ADMISSION you're trying to get mislynches, and that you are going to bandwagon.
I am ever-so-more suspicious of you, Feysal, but I'm happy with where my vote is right now. I could easily get on the biggest bandwagon of thadmiral. I don't believe I'm going to do that.

[Furcolow]

Everyone is scummy until proven innocent, to me, and I keep an open mind about things.

This is scum thinking.

i have to agree with this;
i don't like this train of thought

@Furc: I'm DEFENDING JMJ??? ARE YOU FOR REAL??? He is the optimal lynch for today in my eyes (at this point at least). I'm not defending him in any way. I just said I had a very strong scum-read on Ghostwriter following a few posts of his. It's not something I plan on making a case regarding yet, nor do I plan on voting him at this point in day 1, because he's not the lynch for today, but I felt it good to be known I find him HELLA SCUMMY.

I saw his replacement
I am for lynching his slot, and saving the mod and this game some time... also saving said replacee time from having to catch up... although that is perhaps the wrong way of thinking about it from me.

If you HAD to pick between the wagons being scum-motivated, David, whose wagon would you say had more scum on it? Amrun's, or ThAdmiral's?

[Furcolow]

And for the record, I do not appreciate being called a retard, thank you very much.

can dish it out but not take it?
you're guilty of ad hominem, and you saying my vote is bad is wrong. I am voting the same slot, due to meta, and a possible scumslip. Just because I don't share all of my reasoning to someone like yourself or Feysal who doesn't know how to use your heart isn't indicative of alignment, and usually leads to you all making what appear to be logical arguments that are really fallacious.

[Furcolow]

feysal in his #560 defends Amrun/PI's play, expect to see a hop onto thadmiral wagon from him. Very possible that he is buddying as scum here.

[Furcolow]

@davidparker, i was referencing you PUSHING the lynch
if he flips town, are you willing to die for this lynch?

@ghostwriter, are you willing to lynch JMJ?

[Furcolow]

Feysal, btw, your argument only affirms the fact that I was not in the know on the scum's daytalk in

THIS

game.

[Furcolow]

Furcolow, what don't you like about the one-liner you quoted from me?

I don't like a lot of things you post, for the record, but that doesn't make it automatically scummy.

Having a different philosophy of play doesn't make me scum. In fact, it can't. I approach each and every game exactly the same way, scum or not.

cynicism and a lack of positivity is inherently scummy
do you deny this?

[Furcolow]

Oh god LMP is so town.

DP is probably scum.

explain these reads
elaborate at the least

[Furcolow]

Yes, especially since I am neither cynical or negative.

The whole point of this game is to not trust anyone, so I don't. I try not to get so set in my own ways that I blind myself to new developments. I try not to trust anyone so implicitly that I use anyone else as a crutch. This is the way I like to play and the way I play in every single game, regardless of alignment.

But you should be viewing people as null, not guilty until proven innocent. It doesn't work that way in America. People are innocent until proven guilty, so you should view it as null at the least.

Do you make cases on people before they've talked? They're already scum, right?
You're defending a terrible method.

[Furcolow]

@ThAd: I'm on my phone so I will get you examples later. Being flippant isn't a scumtell, but it is antitown, when we're trying to question you.

And don't get me wrong, I think you're likely scum and that's why I'd see you lynched. However, either way your flip will be informative -- even if you flip town, seeing who PUSHED your lynch rather than defended is more helpful.

just because you say he will flip, doesn't mean he will flip
just because you read him as flippant, doesn't mean he is flippant

just sayin'

[Furcolow]

Furc is really annoying and useless. He likes to just ask questions such as "explain this statement" and quote somoene. His questions don't seem to have much purpose ever, but his way of providing "input", if you can call it that.

If you HAD to pick between the wagons being scum-motivated, David, whose wagon would you say had more scum on it? Amrun's, or ThAdmiral's?

Don't know; don't care. This game isn't black and white. It's not as simple as one wagon being more scum-motivated than another. For all we know there is a scum-motivated wagon on scum. Or a town-motivated wagon on town.

@davidparker, i was referencing you PUSHING the lynch
if he flips town, are you willing to die for this lynch?

What a dumb question.. What do you think? Once again, this game is not black and white. It's not as simple as if we lynch JMJ and he flips town then we lynch me. Sure, i'll look scummier but that's something I'm willing to deal with.

Oh God Nachomamma is probably scum. Because he called me probably scum. The nacho I know would have just called me scum, not "probably scum". That doesn't sit right with me. Sitting up a scum-read on me to use later.

My current shortlist for scum:
JMJ (and now whoever replaced him)
GhostWriter
Nachomamma

And, Furc, before you ask, "please explain your reads" is not a valid response to this post.

Insulting someone is really going to get you far, David, and make people like you
/sarcasm

Anyways, I really dislike your dodging of my question. Care to actually answer? Which of the top 3 wagons do you feel have scum on them? Is that really hard to answer? Why are you dodging?

Your one question has turned into two from your refusal to answer, and I am very seriously considering voting you for this little spiel. More people than I consider you to be scummy this game, and ad hominem

just isn't going to cut it.

Furthermore, you list nachomamma as scum because you're "probably scum" to her - this is borderline omgus on an FoS. Hilarious.

Anyone receptive to a DavidParker late-day-cycle-switch?
I know I am.

[Furcolow]

vote: davidparker

1) ad hominem
2) refusal to answer questions/strawman nearly/misrepresenting my arguments to being "black and white"
3) FoS on someone for being suspicious of him

I see bad play I make in him, and it really makes me want to improve my own play. I feel that he has been open to bandwagonning, and is a very good alternative lynch to the ones that have been proposed. If this wagon doesn't kickstart, where it is late in the phase, I will consider re-voting Amrun (though I have actually liked him more than PI for the town), or voting for mothrax when he gets caught up based upon the content he provides or doesn't provide.

[Furcolow]

of course feysal hops onto thadmiral wagon
he is seriously seeking mislynches galore this game
furthermore, he is dipping back into ad hominem

this is not the feysal-town that i know and love

[Furcolow]

unvote

[Furcolow]

unvote

Hi.

We are not lynching "not voting". Please vote one of the three lynch possibilities or explain why they are all town in your next post.

I see more than three possibilities. You want one?

Vote: No lynch

[Furcolow]

eat that, Lowell!

[Furcolow]

Amrun wagon feels best to be, but 5 votes is indicative of how well he has replaced into that slot in terms of being pro-town, and contributing. I have to defend my Admiral read. I am not sure if I would openly defend him if he were my buddy, note whatever you want. I have voted JMJ at one point... I believe the main case on him is lurking.

I noticed he always had an excuse for not posting, and I haven't seen anything that stuck out at me as pro-town from mothrax. TheAdmiral might be scum, though, so I don't want to hand him an easy pass when I could be off on my read of him. Such a tough decision, it is really easier to just joke around, RC.

I also have fear of wanting to spotlight improperly when I need to be laying low. That is not how I want to come across right now, at this stage.

However, I'm going to have to vote. not voting, abstaining, or voting for NL is just improper at this point.

I'm sure Feysal is going to rage over my play

vote: mothrax

L-5 competing wagons are pro-town IMO

[Furcolow]

unvote;
vote: amrun

I just did a little researching, and I've found something I find suspicious. I am not going to just openly bandwagon - I'm going to lynch who I find to be scum.

Amrun is likely scum, even if his play appears pro-town and detailed. I have picked up on something he does as scum. I will have to see if he does this as town as well. I will be right back. researching!

[Furcolow]

jeez, this is going to sound like a weird case.
ok, as scum, the first thing i noticed he does (in verona mafia) is ask really lilting toned questions, as seen here:
"So your sole reason for voting for me is you think other people are scum?"
How does that further discussion? I didn't even have to look off this page!!

FURTHERMORE, I saw a game of his as town... around 20 posts... he doesn't quote a single person. He just makes informative posts about his analysis as town, which he is not doing here, and he is also quoting people here. Coupld that with this: He quoted excessively as scum, and I feel there is a pretty good case on him.

On top of that, PoisonIvy considering the nationalities actually felt like a slip to me. I know a lot of people dismissed it, but it was a strike against the slot for me.

[Furcolow]

p.s., sorry, she*

[Furcolow]

Wow, furc, that's the biggest stretch I've ever seen.

I have ONE completed newbie game on this site, which I replaced into. I was town. All other games are on-going, but I died in one which I also replaced into (town).

What is this Verona mafia you're talking about?

Also, YES, I asked a question of someone voting for me (shocker). It's to a lurker who hasn't answered me (another shocker).

I have shared my reads and contributed to this game a lot. To say all I do is ask one-liner questions is the biggest misrepresentation I can think of.

oh, jeez, i just realized I got you confused with Artem

unvote

[Furcolow]

I had been up all night, and I really thought pieces were falling into place for me.
We need more setup speculation, so I actually have something to talk about

I want numbers of town vs scum, and I want to be able to direct our roles
if I knew for a fact we had protection roles, I wouldn't mind a claim.

[Furcolow]

the cat avatars didn't help!

[Furcolow]

I have three questions.
1) Why is my tunneling supposedly anti-town?
2) Why is Amrun not dead yet?
3) Why does Furcolow seem really bad at this game?

Key word is seem... I am actually very smart, I just don't take my time. I am also sort of ditzy. However, I am very intelligent, even if I don't always prove it.

I'll put in work, though, in the night.

[Furcolow]

After this it continues pretty much the same. There is very little in the way of scumhunting, and more of defending himself once the wagon on him started to really take off. Nothing that would stand out as that scummy, but no improvement either.
I knew this would become a long post, but these were the things I found scummy. Some details I noticed only on this readthrough though.

The Admiral is attempting to do his version of informative scumhunting, if you will. He himself will admit he is not the best scumhunter, and he is modest about his intelligence. This is his townie game. Stop tunneling, bro.

[Furcolow]

I agree the game sorely needs a claim.

That's fascinating, because we were talking about a lynch, not a claim.

Please note that I was responding to RedCoyote's post 585 in particular, and in that post he discusses the need for a claim.

I don't really like this post from Stephoscope. It is very defensive.
I am also for claiming. Like say I was a Bulletproof, what would that do to the setup? I have also heard of this role being called a Veteran. If I was a Veteran, and had two night lives, it might be wise to claim and setup a circle if there were direct ways of directing via whispering/personal messages. I do not see us having that ability here, so it might not be safe to put all of our pieces out on the table yet.

I was considering claiming Veteran publicly, but I am going to just sit back for now. It is difficult for me to obtain a read, and it is because of the lack of information. I'm going to have to vote Steph on policy.

=

Sorry, steph.
I just really disagree with you.
I know talking to me can be like talking to a wall, when it comes to middle ground, but are you positive you won't rectify your position and situation with me? I am pretty sure that the only reason you would be setting me up like I've seen from you this game is that you would want to mislynch me easily as scum after lurking through Day 1 as the Godfather with little or no suspicions put onto you whatsoever.

With no protective role, though, I would possibly agree with you. WE JUST CAN'T KNOW THAT.
Organization is what is the key to the town, and getting information out. Little snarky comments about ideas that are actually very openminded and assertive in that the town as a collective can come together to overcome the threat of scum is just the exact thing that I don't want to see.

I don't know what to say, other than policy. No read, no enjoyment... no playerslot?

Vote: Stephoscope

[Furcolow]

hmmm

[Furcolow]

Furc, a Stephoscope vote is pretty useless at this point.

UNVOTE: Amrun
VOTE: ThAdmiral

There just doesn't seem to be quite enough support for Amrun's lynch, and I'd prefer this over jmj.

you're probably right

unvote;
vote: artem

he's too town to be town:)

[Furcolow]

No, I do not. I see no reason why Ivy completely dropped off your radar after that show of confidence.

But, whatever. You won. I wasn't here to fight you over it, and everyone here thinks you're onto something with ThAdmiral.

Not everyone. I myself don't, and I saw Artem defend him. that's part of the reason I just put my vote on him. Another part is that I feel he could be playing to scum meta.

[Furcolow]

654 is so horrible it makes me embarassed to be on this wagon. Also, furc is town.

i'm actually bulletproof, but if you mean town as in on the side of the townies, then yeah, i guess i am.

[Furcolow]

Well, it helps have someone for the town to help out through providing lynch targets.
Also, if the scum want to waste 2 nights killing Furcolow, that is very good for the town.

[Furcolow]

We can have this discussion about why you don't claim bulletproof in post-game, Furc.

I have seen that it is a smart claim day 1, as when it is incorporated it is generally good to lead the town, as scum won't be able to silence you after only one night. That's just personal preference.

I'd rather you go ahead and tell me now why it was a bad idea. The thingis, though, I can't be sure you're not scum! You could be purposefully misleading me on my quest of scumhunting.

[Furcolow]

Well, I'm not 100% for sure it NEEDS to be off thadmiral. I believe he is town, but if he is kept around in lylo, people might be like "oh, i remember being suspicious of HIM... *hammer*" ->town loses<-

I'm not for sure that is the case, but the fact that Feysal has some weird theory that is not even a conspiracy about how ThAdmiral is my teammate is laughable. I would be perfectly fine being rolechecked, as I know where my alignment lies. That being said, I'm hoping my behavior will prevent that from even having to happen, though I wouldn't care. An easy way I can quell Feysal's mouth from its flappery would be through voting ThAdmiral and showing that I don't really care.

I mean, I care, don't get me wrong. I care about winning. I want the town to win, as that is who I am with this game, but I don't have any idea about anyones alignment so I would be willing to vote anyone, pretty much. I know that comes across as scummy through bandwagonning willingness, but it is just not the case.

I have been seeking people to follow my lead, RC, but just because someone is town, with or without confirmation, it is still best to scumhunt.

[Furcolow]

claiming helps determine the setup, admiral

[Furcolow]

i'm helping my fellow town determine it, admiral
i've so far determined that this town is full of fail

why do you ask?

[Furcolow]

Actually, if I knew we had a protective role, yes.
However, the key to that would be not outting the protective role, or guaranteeing X number of innocents at a certain point.

In an open setup, where it is advantageous to do so, yes. I actually like having my cards on the table, knowing what they are, and how to use them. I feel it is a very underused strategy for the town, when the scum are much more proportionately weaker and would be forced to counterclaim.

[Furcolow]

Do you blame me, BotS? What do I have besides my mind and my vote? an extra life?

I dislike Feysal's silly wrathful pushing, and his wanting me silenced. I have freedom of speech. If my vote is taken away, it will only make me louder.

[Furcolow]

there is no way we can be burning fahrenheit 451, gui montag.

[Furcolow]

Heydar Aliyev, Soviet Bulletproof

[Furcolow]

I don't really know a lot about my character, can someone inform me?

[Furcolow]

I forgot that Furc didn't full claim, so my top two choices for silencing are Furc and smarg. Smarg's blatant misrep of me on an earlier page was a major scumtell for me.

However, if there is some sort of consensus between enough people that they can't all be mafia about whom I should silence, I will do that.

i don't see why you would silence someone who has not been counterclaimed whatsoever

[Furcolow]

unvote

ThAdmiral - 9 -

Nachomamma8, EGL, LynchMePls, LlamaFluff, GhostWriter, Amrun, Feysal, Bvoigt, Smargaret

Amrun - 8 -

XScorpion, Beasts of the Sea, Stephoscope, ThAdmiral, smargaret, mothrax, Scott Brosius, Lowell

I'm pretty sure this is where we're at.
I am not happy with EITHER of these wagons, honestly.

Seeking new wagon...
Loading...
...Loading Completed.

Let's lynch EGL
He is not contributing
In the last two weeks, he has posted twice. They are just senseless pushes on TheAd
One consists entirely of "Why is TheAd still alive?"
If this is what the town has, we don't need it. Policy lynch can be achieved. Let's lynch a lurker. Of his 18 posts, literally like 80% came in a two hour period on JANUARY TWENTY-THIRD. No joke.

ALSO, there is a pretty good case on him
He tries to INITIATE momentum on the PI wagon, while FoS on DavidParker (fishy)
Also, then, JUMPS on theAd wagon. Guy criticizes TheAd for votehopping d1, when he has been on the biggest wagons.
pot...kettle

vote: EGL

[Furcolow]

VOTE: Vote: RedCoyote for being Red... as in Communist.

***Mod: Fixed them tags ***

scumslip?
I'm soviet, here, and I know my alignment.

What was wrong with my tags?

*** Mod: You opened a vote: tag but closed a bold tag. ***

scum messing up tags? lawl

My pm from mod stating my role also made it rather clear, as it was a town pm, that there is probably town-aligned players of different nationalities (ie: people of other nationalities who only want peace, which makes sense thematically)

I find it interesting you explicitly state the PM you got was a town PM. It seems like subliminal messaging or something.

Anyway, my role PM didn't explicitly state that there are town aligned players of different nationalities. Town role PMs could be different in that some might explicitly state this and some might not.

I do find you have a point though on PoisonIvy thinking that it's America vs. Soviets due to the town win condition saying to eliminate threats against peace.

I'm going to maintain differing levels of skepticism that either of you have received pro-town roles, with a higher level of skepticism toward PoisinIvy than you. I would, however, like to point out I didn't like your three short posts in response to RedCoyote voting for you. They seemed defensive.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PoisonIvy

FoS: DavidParker

Really bad case scum could have made looking at a sample PM
Jumps on the PI wagon
FoS on DP when DP is probably town... even if not, senseless FoS from january 23rd when it's february 15th and he hasn't contributed anything except a one liner in the past week... further than that, really, but whatever.

NO MORE ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS

I am completely serious about that, I have no idea how many times I have to reitterate it.

You don't get to dictate these things, you know.

What do people make of this? LF + EGL buddying?

@GhostWriter, LlamaFluff will get it when he sees it.

I think he makes a good argument about question three though and I do believe that speculation of the setup so early on D1 benefits anti-town roles the most by far. The first two questions though, to get things going, I don't see anything wrong if people want to answer them.

Furthered here with the smilie, and the "he makes a good argument"

For me, PoisonIvy hasn't adequately accounted for the fact she thought the game was Americans vs. Soviets as opposed to a town who wants to eliminate all threats to peace which is in the pro-town win condition.

This after
this:

VOTE: Vote: RedCoyote for being Red... as in Communist.

***Mod: Fixed them tags ***

makes no sense.
So, he thinks both Americans and Soviets are communist?
hmmm

Are you sure there couldn't be an all Soviet mafia? Game Specifics number 4 is listed as a POSSIBLE mafia win condition.

Also contradicts this!

3.) Having played a cold war game on golivewire, im going to guess that a) its USA vs. Soviets/Russians. And there is a miller in our midts. FYI its not me.

@PoisonIvy, I clearly read your post. You did say Americans(USA) vs. Soviets/Russians.

Anyway I'm going to

unvote

for now and

vote: ThaDmiral

. Apologies if the casing is wrong there. I didn't really like his reasoning on the Furc daytalking scum situation. I think it was a stretch since the information was apparently available to everybody per a post by the mod.

Jumps on TheAd after PI wagon dies for absolutely no reasoning. Has had vote there since January 23rd, making 0 case, only saying "why is thead not dead"

-end of case, even if this guy is town, he needs to die

[Furcolow]

P.S. SUP FEYSAL?

[Furcolow]

@feysal, question from 34:
Fahrenheit 451 is the temperature at which Soviet literature would have been burning at in America, or vice versa. It is the heat at which books burn, as far as I know, and a good book which I'm sure you know.

Because it's pretty obvious to me that country does not have any impact on what faction you are.
And if I'm wrong and it does, then obviously he should die.

Obvious to you perhaps, not to her. If she was US and town, how should she know what other nationalities the town consists of? How should she know what nationalities the threats to the peace consist of? She had less information to work with than the non-US townies, and her theory was plausible given what she knew. On the other hand, if you were someone like Charles de Gaulle or Josip Broz Tito, you would of course know that the setup was not US versus Soviets, and you would not be jumping to a conclusion that the game was French versus Yugoslavians either.

I agree with your sentiment here, but I disagree with your message somewhat. This game may not be as simple as that. There could be people from the US who win when all other US players are eliminated, someone from the US who wins when the Soviets are eliminated, or some Soviets may win when everyone else is eliminated but their faction. I don't know what the setup is, but we cannot dismiss traitorous/survival roles unless I missed something.

I am town-aligned. I am from a capitalist country that is not the US.

The setup is not US v Soviets, and there is no way that someone as vociferously anti-Communist as McCarthy is town.

I actually want to agree with this; I nearly have to agree with this, BUT... and there is a but, what if McCarthy was a miller? I mean, he is obviously the person you would pick as a miller for this kind of game. Miller gonna mill.

Not saying I know anything with that, or that we should let Amrun off the hook because I was for a PI lynch most definitely, especially considering it faltered, before Amrun stepped into the game. Do I feel like PI slipped? No. I wanted to lynch on meta.

The point of this post, so far, has been to open your eyes and minds up to the possibilities of scenarios within this game, and not limiting ourselves as a town to black and whiteness, when there is in fact a gray area on what we know about this setup.

I encourage you all to join me in pressuring EGL's slot, as they have not been contributing, and are likely scum.

You don't believe me, so why should I believe you?

I didn't choose to be McCarthy as town. I just AM McCarthy as town.

Maybe it's capitalist vs. communist, then? Hmm.

That could be true, although I don't know if my guy was a proponent of Capitalism or not. I don't know if it is false, though. I saw a picture of my guy with Putin, so I'm assuming this

could

be true. There is just a lot of doubt about your lynch for me, which is why I have proposed a better one. We can keep you, for now, if you are good.

Threats to peace imply there are capitalist and communist town. (And likely capitalist and communist scum, who are probably not on the same scum faction).

The amount of WIFOM going on with Amrun's claim is irritating.

irritating, yes, but we need to sift through this shit as town because we need to be ready for anything.

@People saying - "Test gov ability" - You do realize that most govenor abilities end the day with no lynch right? Also, not claiming if I am really govenor or not, I do like pulling this stuff to get reactions out of people when I have another role.

Basically, if you are voting amrum over the govenor thing, you should be fully prepared to see a no lynch or him lynched.

So basically you are lying scum, right? If anyone needs a bullet tonight it's you.

For everyone who didn't notice:

Amrum has not been governered, and llama is to be killed asap. Put votes back on amrum.

I like this post from the ad. I mean, I REALLY like this post. I was starting to be less sure of him, but this pressure on LlamaFluff is good, considering he was the only person I saw EGL buddying up with that could be his scum partner. Amrun/EGL/LlamaFluff wouldn't surprise me.

Why would you derail the wagon though? She's got a scum-sounding role and a scum-sounding ability. Even if amrum does survive today she is set up for an easy lynch later down the track. It's just terrible play and completely contradicts your earlier assertion that this game needs a flip.
And how are you SO sure amrum is town in spite of everything? I don't buy it.

Ive been saying PI is town since around page five and still believe it, so yeah im going to derail a wagon on someone I think is town. That lynch would only be preferable to my strong town reads and no lynch.

However, I don't like this.
I'm going to stick with EGL, as Amrun could be an easy mislynch. If Amrun is not their teammate, I'm going to go with Smargaret. That would put 1 scum on gonnano, 1 scum on TheAd, and 1 scum on Amrun... all the major wagons. Conclusive? No, but it's a start.

[Furcolow]

flavor-wise, as far as I know, I am solidly against not going to war to the point that I can roll with the punches. to whoever asked for flavor.

[Furcolow]

Furc -

1. Why give a miller a power, especially one that looks as anti-town as what Amrun has claimed? I would say Amrun is town before I would say she's a miller.
2. Your character was the leader of a communist nation, according to wikipedia.
3. Why do you assume a 3-man scumteam, especially in a game this size?

Actually, I'm not at all certain that Amrun is scum - I think it's more likely she's some sort of third party role. Notice all the third party speculation in her posts, and it would make much more sense for McCarthy to win when all the communists are dead. Either way, I am pretty convinced she's not town.

IP - I unvoted Amrun because I was under the belief she'd been governored, and I didn't want a no lynch. When Llama revealed his gambit, I put my vote back on, because Amrun was and still is the player I believe to be least likely to be town. Why does that make me scummy?

I'm not limiting myself to a 3 man scumteam. I'm just adapting reads as I go through the game. I have no idea how many scum there are.
1. McCarthy just being McCarthy would work as a miller
2. I saw that. Azerbaijan, or something. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't want to appear too informed.
3. see above

I'm not certain Amrun is scum, either. Did you see EGL's spiel just a minute ago? Scummy, scummy, scummy!
Obvious distancing from LF when LF isn't even close to a lynch, after an unvote of Amrun from 2 posts before... I mean, I shift FoS and wagons, but this guy is providing no reasoning. Play like that can't go unpunished, and I'm glad I already laid out a case on him and was buddying him. His defense, a one liner, is inadequate vs. the case I presented on him. If people aren't willing to lynch EGL, I have no hope for us.

I messed up the tags.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AmRun

This is the 3rd time you've just blindly hopped on one of the largest wagons. PI, thead, amrun... all with 0 reasoning.

And Furc, I think you've confused me with someone else. I wasn't buddying up to LlamaFluff.

Actually, you really were. Want me to quote it again? How about you actually quote the case I had on you and respond to it. That'd be nice.

Actually, I'd like to see Llama lynched today due to his recent play, if it's not too late to do so.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LlamaFluff

for what reason?
yet again, we're seeing 0 reasoning out of you, when I can provide an obvious reason: you're trying to distance from who I feel your partner could be. obvious distancing is obvious, especially since just a page ago I had highlighted why you all could be teammates. This is not the way to play, if you're town, which I believe you aren't.

So EGL shows up and votes on the biggest wagon without saying anything. Then he notices someone is voting for him, sees an accusation of buddying, and votes for his supposed buddy.

That's town behavior. Right.

Right, he's soooooooo town
let's lynch this guy

I like how when I ask for some justification of the accusations against me, I'm then accused of being scummy for trying to defend myself. Great scumhunting there.

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but Furcolow actually made sense when he suggested that McCarthy could potentially be a miller. It's the only way that I can see for Amrun's flavor to be reconciled with his townie reaction to being lynched.


On a side note, paper ignites at about 450 degrees Celsius, not 451 degrees Fahrenheit.

I completely agree. Why is that book called Fahrenheit 451, though?

[Furcolow]

And that I think AmRun might be scum. I'm not too interested in tales of ThAd scum these days. You seem to be too insistent that we don't lynch AmRun. It suggests you're somehow paired together. Either as neighbors or scum. And I picked the one I thought most likely.

LOL EGL agrees with my other two reads, then "goes back into his cave"

SO, EGL is suggesting Amrun/LF
I'm suggesting EGL/Amrun/LF
MAAAAJOR distancing imo.

[Furcolow]

Actually, I'm not so sure about Amrun. If LF flips scum, though, you can book that. I am way more sure on EGL, and after him, I will probably adapt my reads.

Seriously, though, I haven't really felt this good about a situation. We need to lynch between EGL/LF based on this reaction.

[Furcolow]

lets lynch EGL

[Furcolow]

It's so funny. Everytime I have a thought in this game ThAd has the exact opposite. I swear to god...

Unvote
Vote: Bunnylover

so that's why you follow one of his thoughts right afterwards in this post?
he said everyone needs to vote EGL/bunnylover/gonnano, and you do that.
I understand what you mean, but can you see the contradiction here?

[Furcolow]

I don't want anything to do with the Bunnylover wagon after DP's move to it. That was so scummy it's sick.

I agree. I also dislike the "slip", and feel it was rather ambiguous. It is probably just a matter of having deduced it from the thread.

[Furcolow]

apologies for incoherence, i'm sorta sedated right now.

my role pm states that i am a town-aligned player from a non-US, nn-USSR country. thus I can dedduce that ther are other such players in the game because if the mod made it so i was the only one, thta'd be bstard. jvw/ffuzzy/bunny's slip is legit imo.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bunny

you have been on how many bandwagons?

[Furcolow]

None of it says anything about promoting or averting a nuclear conflict.

That's true. What it does describe, though, is an almost perfect representation of what scum want to do: gain power by preying on the misconceptions of others.

The only options for this role flavorwise as I see it are
A) McCarthy is scum.
B) The role is intended to draw suspicion to a town player, miller-style.
C) Whoever came up with the role doesn't know much about McCarthy.

and I don't think it's C.

I'm leaning towards B, and I would replace A as a milleresque fakeclaim the mod gave them to scrape by

[Furcolow]

dislike the roleblocker claim

unvote;
vote: bunnylover

sure, i've seen roleblocker as town, but i've seen it as scum 10x more

[Furcolow]

I was wondering if that was che guevara

[Furcolow]

EGL IS SO INCREDIBLY SCUMMY
WHEN I GET NIGHTKILLED, PLEASE KILL HIM - WITH A ROPE

[Furcolow]

Why do i need to explain myself?

vote: EGL

[Furcolow]

Furc's bulletproof claim then the bounty on EGL's head if he is NKed definitely doesn't add up.

Vote: Furculow

What?
This makes no sense to me, rephrase it.

[Furcolow]

Oh, when I said when I get nightkilled? I have to get hit to be nightkilled, so what if I have to be hit twice? You all are picking apart something that isn't there, to be honest.

[Furcolow]

OK, I lied.
I'm not a veteran. Can you imagine why I would fakeclaim that? I'm so mad right now. Do you all want me to claim? I don't believe it is in the best interest of the town for me to really claim. The person I claimed is truth, but the role is not. My alignment is town.

[Furcolow]

What if the liar didn't want to be killed in the night?

[Furcolow]

I'm soviet, basically, from Azerbaijan or whatever. My guy was friends with the Democracy in Russia, so he is on the good side, if one so exists. It is all based upon perspective. I like capitalism more, so I don't mind. I don't really feel nervous about a wagon on me, or claiming anything. Lynch me if you all will, I don't really care.

[Furcolow]

it's all relative to perception with something like politics or religion

[Furcolow]

vote: furcolow

LAL

[Furcolow]

unvote

Would someone quote where Amrun was supposedly gloating? I view that as a scumslip.

[Furcolow]

@BOTS, no, I am pro-town in that I win when the threats to the peace are eliminated, or whatever.

[Furcolow]

town...silencer... yeah, right

vote: amrun

[Furcolow]

ill go look at my exact pm
hold on

[Furcolow]

heydar aliyev, soviet townie. I am against war.
lynching me isn't that bad; better than lynching a PR.
However, Amrun claimed SILENCER. How can you all ignore that?
I'm not shifting my vote.
If someone wants to ask me anything, go right ahead.
If you want me to actually scumhunt, perhaps you should make me stop defending myself.

[Furcolow]

whatever.

[Furcolow]

Can we lynch me if Amrun ISNT Scum? Because considering me vs poisonivy on d1 would really clear me, and they CLAIMED SILENCER, are you all fucking kidding me?
terrible fucking players

[Furcolow]

OK, I lied.
I'm not a veteran.

Can you imagine why I would fakeclaim that?

I'm so mad right now. Do you all want me to claim? I don't believe it is in the best interest of the town for me to really claim. The person I claimed is truth, but the role is not. My alignment is town.

CAN YOU IMAGINE WHY I WOULD FAKECLAIM THAT?
THEN SHIFT TO TOWNIE?
I AM A DOCTOR.

[Furcolow]

i missed this in artem's recent post, but i did not ever hint at multiple scumteams, and if you took anything that way, you need to learn how to read

[Furcolow]

Feysal, I was obviously for a mass claim. Put two and two together.
Is there a point in claiming protections, bvoigt? I don't see a reason against that, though...
I was on BotS, as I believe he is actively town.

Since I am likely going to die tonight, is anyone against my picking out a lynch? Amrun claiming silenced, with PI's play d1, is likely scum. I believe we, as a town, need to lynch them. If you all want to continue lynching me, go right ahead, and lynch off a member of your town. I'm over committed in terms of games, anyways, and the person who asked me to play in this game (liam) is M.I.A. anyways. I love sotty, but I'm sure sotty can get her daily dose of Furcolow elsewhere.

The question I ask and pose on you all now is this: If I was scum, would I simply not care? Because I don't. This is just a silly wagon based upon someone who is likely scum picking up on a "slip" I made/chink in my armor as I have been trying to WIFOM and protect myself. I am not used to being a medic/doctor....

[Furcolow]

I agree with 1380. At the very least, it looks like DP has reason to think furc is not scum, and threw in the

parenthetical

to cover his ass. furc can be dealt with later if need be.

unvote, vote DP

PARANTHETICAL?
THAT IS MY GENUINE SCUMTELL
PLEASE DIRECT ME TO THIS, IF I CANT FIND IT

[Furcolow]

Sathoris, why are you so convinced there are multiple teams... ?
I doubt there are.

[Furcolow]

2 kills last night could easily be a vigilante, or an SK

[Furcolow]

I'm not convinced DP is scum, but he did post a lot of one liners like this one

[Furcolow]

I'm really not convinced you're scum, David, so no, I don't really need an explanation.

[Furcolow]

Why is smargaret alive?

[Furcolow]

Well, Sathoris, I am very suspicious of you since you PMed me a week ago

EBWOP: what?

[Furcolow]

rolefishing. v'/la now.

of course smarg disappears

sathoris/smarg scumteam
you heard it here first (afaik)

[Furcolow]

Nacho, why announce it like that? What perceivable town benefit is there in that?

Stephoscope has been coasting, but I don't think the rolefishing is quite as dramatic as smargaret is suggesting.

this is also reading as an associative tell
you guys need to buck up

[Furcolow]

lol I wanted to see how you would react to that
scum reaction is indicative of scum

[Furcolow]

Furc, of course I disappeared. My FMIL was literally at the door and we were going somewhere with no internet connection.

I don't see Nacho's post as a softclaim. Sathoris's reaction was "I want to prove that I didn't PM furc about the game" not "I want to show how town I am!!!!" scummy.

Furc, how many people do you find scummy right now?

SCUMMY, or scum?
DavidParker, for instance, is scummy. However, I don't feel he is scum. I'm not sure about it, but my gut is telling me he is snarky town.

Amrun is most definitely scummy...
EGL was scummy, but has been doing a lot better today in terms of helping himself with my opinion of him in my head...
I have found you mildly scummy all game, too, smarg, as I feel you are ready to wagon anyone at the drop of a hat. Who has the motivation to do that? Plus there is that associative tell, you getting overly defensive a page ago, and if you add all that together it is pretty damning.

Add Sathoris to that list, and me not considering DP scum fully... so does that count? and I'd say 3 and a half.

[Furcolow]

I would also be happy lynching Stephoscope, even if I'm iffy on whether or not they're scum/scummy, because they're useless.
Call it a policy lynch if you will.

[Furcolow]

the fact he is pming people, regardless of what he is saying, is bullshit
"im going to pm you off the topic of the game to get on your good side"
why would someone want to do that?
if and when he flips scum, iPie, you might want to be on the town side of the lynch

[Furcolow]

Because I'm new here and I like to be friendly to people. Seriously why is this even coming up in this game. I've been playing with you and iPie from a month or so now so I though I'd wish you a happy birthday.

Dont worry though, I won't do the same for you next year, furc.

Besides your reasoning is completely off. I've been against you all game. I have no motives to get on your good side in this game.

Bolded is extremely uncalled for.
It's a no PM game, bro, you pming a bunch of people alters their opinion of you. "Oh, I don't want to lynch this scum, because he's such a nice guy" Sure, it was non-game related, but it can change the game, and is cheating.

If I knew furculow would blow this way out of proportion I wouldn't have bothered. Strictly business here then. This has derailed the game long enough. Your attempt of trying to blow something up to shift attention from yourself has been noted furculow..

I meant to mention this earlier. Also, please learn how to spell my name, thanks.
I'm not trying to blow something up, I'm informing the game that what you are doing leads to cheating. What if I replied? What if I replied with reads? You would try to get me modkilled.

Why would you do that as town? I don't believe you would. You only benefit from that as scum, and from the altered opinion of your niceness in not getting you lynched. It also helps you fake town play if you are scum.

You read it wrong.

No, you read it wrong.

@ThAdmiral: Somewhere around my ISO #20 on D1, I decided it was time to get a flip, and switched around between several people who seemed pretty likely to be scum.

This may be true. But you've bandwaggoned since then as well.

Because I'm new here and I like to be friendly to people. Seriously why is this even coming up in this game. I've been playing with you and iPie from a month or so now so I though I'd wish you a happy birthday. Dont worry though, I won't do the same for you next year, furc.

Besides your reasoning is completely off. I've been against you all game. I have no motives to get on your good side in this game.

This comes across as properly genuine.
You've hurt his feelings furc. Congrats.

Have you been pming players from the game? I mean, that just opens the floodgates. However genuine that is could easily be faked. If you don't view that as null, I really don't know what to say, bro.

Sathoris, Furc, DP, Lowell, why did you ignore my claim?

Unvote, Vote: DavidParker

I missed your post. I saw someone talk about you having a night kill, but when you're playing terribly as town like I am this game, you want to dodge any and all vig discussion.. lol

I like Thad's analysis, although I disagree somewhat about bvoigt, who seems to me the most town out of the three that Thad was looking at. I've been getting scummy vibes off of smarg throughout the game, but I'm still not sure if I've seen enough to warrant a vote.

Furcolow's accusation about Sathoris PMing him is a null tell, reads as more VIS play on Furcolow's part.

I disagree. I play in PM games a lot, and small talk is how you open up with people. I appreciate his wishes, but I feel there was an ulterior motive there. You can disagree all you want about what that makes me, but I feel any good player should not reply and inform the thread.

@1470- yeah sorry, missed the claim. I'll pay attention. let me catch up.

@1460- I was thinking exactly the same thing. game-related or not, PMs are odd in the middle of a game. 1461 isn't the most inspiring response.

So, Gonnano, Lowell is a VI too? He agrees with me here, and for good reason.

Anyways, I'm done with this PM bull-malarkey.

I am very receptive to a smarg lynch, barring her having a good defense.

[Furcolow]

I jumped off furc because I think there are a lot of people who keep coming up as scummy - Lowell and gonanno are the two I can think of off the top of my head - but aren't getting attention/being wagoned, and more - steph, sath, bvoigt, EGL, BotS - who are coasting. There was a fair bit of pressure on Furc, the town isn't going to let him slide - and we have several scum to be hunting for. Yesterday I was pretty lost given the size of the game and the number of wagons.

you are still open to lynching me on a later date, according to this post, is that true?

EBWOP: Furc, if you're so receptive to my lynch, why aren't you voting me?

I mentioned it in my post... did you not read it?
I said "I'm waiting to let smarg defend herself", or something similar.
your defense is an offense, and i am not satisfied. However, I will give you one more chance to explain your receptiveness to too many bandwagons... only scum should have that many reads.

You asked me who I found scummy, I believe, and I said 3 1/2... it might be 4-5, but you've listed like 8 names, if you include your willingness to lynch me, which I know is there.

Have you been pming players from the game? I mean, that just opens the floodgates. However genuine that is could easily be faked. If you don't view that as null, I really don't know what to say, bro.

Well if you don't think he was genuinely just trying to do something nice in this mafia community, then I don't know what to say to you.

No. He was trying to create discussion with me, through the appearance of doing something nice. The fact he also PMed InflatablePie is just icing on the cake.

If I really thought he did it solely because he likes me, which I'm fairly certain he didn't, I wouldn't have brought it up, would have said thanks... simply... and then would have moved on. However, where I believe he had ulterior motives, I brought it up.

bvoigt you make me sad. And here I thought you were town. *sigh*

I share the same gut on that recently, and I shifted from feeling he was town, too.
Great minds...

Everything with the PMs and Sathoris is null. Getting a town read makes no sense from it, but it's a weak reason to push anything on Sathoris either.

I'm not going to push on him for it, but he gave me a slight scum read.
For instance, before, if it had been you, me, and him in a 3 way lylo, I probably would have hammered you.
However, now, I would hammer him.
Does that make sense to you?

Alright, I'm all caught up and don't really have much to say.

I've kinda lost the interest in the game. I think I figured out who the townies are and want to systematically lynch the others, starting with smarg. Unfortunately, I don't really have the attention span or the stamina to put together proper cases to convince others.

So, I think I'm just going to replace out. Thanks for the game, guys. Was entertaining for a while.

Sotty: Can I be replaced please?

Since this slot is replacing, why is he sharing a read?
If the game is "too easy" for him, why is he replacing out?

I've read a game of his as town, and he literally didn't quote once
I've read a game of his as scum, and he walled and quoted a lot, much like he did here

I am willing to lynch this slot before there is a replacement, because due to meta, he appears protown as scum and vice versa.

[Furcolow]

unvote;
vote: amrun

I just did a little researching, and I've found something I find suspicious. I am not going to just openly bandwagon - I'm going to lynch who I find to be scum.

Amrun is likely scum, even if his play appears pro-town and detailed. I have picked up on something he does as scum. I will have to see if he does this as town as well. I will be right back. researching!

jeez, this is going to sound like a weird case.
ok, as scum, the first thing i noticed he does (in verona mafia) is ask really lilting toned questions, as seen here:
"So your sole reason for voting for me is you think other people are scum?"
How does that further discussion? I didn't even have to look off this page!!

FURTHERMORE, I saw a game of his as town... around 20 posts... he doesn't quote a single person. He just makes informative posts about his analysis as town, which he is not doing here, and he is also quoting people here. Coupld that with this: He quoted excessively as scum, and I feel there is a pretty good case on him.

On top of that, PoisonIvy considering the nationalities actually felt like a slip to me. I know a lot of people dismissed it, but it was a strike against the slot for me.

This is all I have, but I mistook Amrun for Artem

the case is about Artem, in actuality, but noone was receptive to his lynch as his meta seems sooooo protown

check out how protown he appears in verona mafia
this mirrors that
also, i will find the game where he didnt quote ONCE as town.. hold on

[Furcolow]

ehhh... i'm wrong. I must have made a mistake. His play is actually similar to his town play.

[Furcolow]

None of the stuff XScorpion votes over is actually scummy.

Furc was caught lying
FURC WAS LYING
WHY IS HE STILL ALIVE
WTF PEOPLE

this post is so good
you aren't trolling or anything

[Furcolow]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 29&start=0
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 54&start=0
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=250
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=15265

possibly more, but theres 4

[Furcolow]

You thought that when I was linking my scum meta?
I really need to get into a better game. This game has gone to shit, and I'm just a townie, why did CallMeLiam ask me to play then flake?

[Furcolow]

want me to link a game where i made those exact claims in the exact same sequence as town? lol

[Furcolow]

if i bother you so much, you know, you could replace out and troll somewhere else

[Furcolow]

Good. I disagree with your Fonz read, though it doesn't matter now!
I say good because I feel you aren't that good at scumhunting.

[Furcolow]

to clarify the above, as I just read the game:
3 dropped our for cheating, causing 1 to ask for replacement.
Still, a bad situation. However, I do not believe this is the time, nor the place!

[Furcolow]

Let's not doctorfish any more than has been done. I'm keeping my mouth shut, not that the game has a few more notable players to lively it up. Do I have multiple nightlives? Am I just a townie? Am I doctor?
You all will have to find out through lynching me, or letting scum kill me. I'm writing this portion after I've written the bottom, and I would like to add there is the possibility of a vig, now that I'm considering it. Nacho4vig?

Yo peeps. I'm here to run this shizzz...but as a warning I'm kind of swamped with stuff atm. It's going to take me awhile to read up on the game. Does anyone want to give me some highlights up until this point that I can use as guideposts?

What's the current game state? Any confirmed townies I should know about? Any confirmed scum I should know about?

Well, towntell wise, people are really flip floppy on whether or not I'm town.

I'm REALLY glad to see you and DDD, considering the amount of flack I have been receiving. Even if you all decide on me, I know that my win condition will be achieved.

Scum are really just reads. Smarg has been bandwagonning each and every person she can, yet not really defending anyone.

Hell, I've even defended what a lot would consider an obvious policy lynch in David Parker. My claims have been all over the place, but I'm not going to say what my role really is. I am, however, not retracting my nameclaim.

I guarantee scum got fakeclaims, so nameclaiming doesn't really do any good. Soviet/American/Nationalities are definitely the way to go.

I saw 2 kills iirc, so I am leaning towards SK, though it could easily be multi-faction in a communist-takeover vs capitalist-takeover

[Furcolow]

Gut + Silencer claim being something I haven't ever seen as town. I actually missed it yesterday.. I don't know how...

Also, considering the replaced had a huge wagon on them d1 that got stuck

[Furcolow]

How about yourself? Any notable reads?

[Furcolow]

*cue jeopardy theme*

[Furcolow]

First off, Amrun, you space a pretty poor post out to where it looks bigger. That is probably null, but could you refrain from doing that in the future? Thanks. You also said, and I quote:

though I'd rather see what happens to Furc at night.

So, I'll ask you

amrun

um... if you were town, why would you be worried... no, let me reword this
if you were town, and you wanted me out of the game for whatever reason (i.e. policy lynch, "you're scum", etc.) why the fuck would you not just push my lynch instead of being worried what happens to me in the night?

Even if you consider me "vig-bait", why not just policy lynch me? If I'm just "bad at town" isn't it better to keep someone who is bad at town than someone who is scum? I personally feel like I am a good scumhunter, and good at defending people who are newb and townie, which I don't feel like you are. I find you to be newb nervous scum. Pardon the French.

Part of me likes part of smarg's #1541, but I dislike the information about how scum would be imagining things in that situation. Why are you in that mindset, smarg? Otherwise, you helped my read of you a little up until the point you claimed townie, but I shouldn't be hypocritical about claiming.

EGL, I doubt you're going to get modkilled for inactivity, and it's nice to see you're here and all, but we don't want excuses

anyone else reading 1544-1546 as scum playfighting? Maybe it's just a gender bias

Well, I guess I was too late to remind everyone that the PI/Amrun slot is still scummy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: smarg

Because smarg is the only person that seems scummy to me who also has a reasonable chance of being lynched today.

Well, no, Gonnano reads it the same way
possibly gonnano is in a different faction than smarg/Amrun, due to their shit reasoning?

fonz, your "furc will continue to play like this" reads as something you don't consider true to me

I will tell you why
1) you spend your time going over a tell I made
2) then into how I can fix my VI play
3) if I was worthless you wouldnt have spent 60-70% of your post on me, if I'm such a VI,

why is my name in your mouth?

The point of the matter is that, regardless of what you all think, it is better to be talked about negatively than not talked about at all.

The "survival yet giving up" reads as town to me when people do that. It is more of a town reaction to be generally hurt over a game to the point where you want to quit or be tactically modkilled, for instance. I wouldn't EVER do the latter, but I've seen it.

[Furcolow]

Glad you can get so immersed in viewing it from the scumside, smarg. Why would you be concerned with power role hunting? Where has Steph done that? I also read it as a VT claim. That's how it felt like, and it felt fake regardless of whether or not you were claiming VT or "town". My problems still stand; you didn't address them properly.

EGL, when do they NOT on mafiascum?

[Furcolow]

You didn't really need to say that, VPB, it's fairly obvious
admitting that to the people who wouldn't pick up on it detracts from you doing it to me
now, care to answer the question I asked you?

[Furcolow]

uh?
i did too

[Furcolow]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 29&start=0
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 54&start=0
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=250
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=15265

possibly more, but theres 4

[Furcolow]

Ill go read that myself.

[Furcolow]

vote: feysal

[Furcolow]

Unvoting in and of itself is deterring the wagon. It was at L-2, now it is at L-3, and he is mudslinging on the 2nd most wagon while jumping on it. How is that not deterring? Every aspect of it SCREAMS deterring/buddying/scumteam to me.
If you don't hold stock in associative tells, that's fine, put me at L-8 or L-7 or whatever. I really don't mind dying in this game whatsoever, as the tone has been majorly snooty, my role is questionable, and I am from a country I don't want to be from.

To pappums rat/Feysal

Pappums Rat wrote:

lol thats quite a stretch there furc. if you will recall, i was voting you first and then i went over to pi after lmp's point and the fact that she put up a wall post after you had said she was sus for not having done so. then your omgus vote on pi made me change my mind back over to you.

and this is his reply. Notice the buddying to LMP?

i can vouch for what lmp is saying, he has said basically the same thing in another game. that has to be one of the weakest reasons for voting someone evar.

More buddying to LMP

I'd like to add Feysal's unwillingness to try to break the game, tunneling, and flaking/lurking the past day to this case. I feel their partners are Amrun/Smarg/LMP.

I would just like to point out Furcolow is abstaining from my wagon.
Ive seen him play as town and he is one who bounds ahead regardless of anyones welfare but his own. Ive not seen this side to him and we have only played together as towns. His "early questining stage slash whatever he called it" was not something i have ever seen from him and he is for the moment acting too cautious for my liking. Apart from this, i understand i may be bouncing with the read/slight read i have on him. But i think that in comparision with how ive seen him play as ruthless, that he has a high chance of being anti town. He is scummy and he will after my death continue to drag people down.

Lastly. My reads have been given. If i had to pick scum from my wagon i woulf pick.... Xscorpion (FYI you ask for clarification and nothing you have tried to twist is exactly THAT complex), pappumus rat (late wagon jumper)and beasts of the sea(aggressively pushing other peoples opinions, with no question of who and why people are on my wagon)

My town reads stand.

If anyone would require a role claim do take care to let me know but its nothing that special. Let alone save me.
Kay guise? Thanx for your times!

~Ivy.

Lets look at PI here she admits her read on me is weak, but that I will "drag people down". Who drags people down? Bad town. She is admitting I'm going to be a hindrance to the town, which assumes she KNOWS I'm town.

She then lists scumreads. . . BOTS, pappums rat(feysal, now), and XScorpion. BotS and XScorpion have detailed, elaborate reasons... though the reasoning/logic is bad. pappums rat is listed because he's a "late wagon jumper"? Why would they isolate one late wagon jumper from the others without reasoning? I'll tell you why:
They're scum together, and she ends up backtracking on the read two days later "letting them off the hook" while not ever having voted them or intended to. Notice how she places it in the middle to avoid it being noticed? Yeah. Scumteam.

Here is where she responds to him next:

PS. Rat. I was NOT prodded. I was out drinking, sobered up and participated. There is nothing too hard to understand as someone having a social life.

Reads as appealing to a scum partner not to bus, to me. I might be stretching here, admittedly.

and here is where she backtracks

I agree with pappumus rat.

There are a) too many people slipping off the radar and b) there were far too many people on my wagon for them all to be innocent. It gained rapid velocity because of my own speculation on the set up.

Based on pappumus rat was saying i find it perfectly logical why he would bounce votes.

Yet some people here have a very arrogant knack of twisting things...... or..... uh...... i mean "misreading".

Scott anti town = greater potential for being scum? No? No one here is verified town or scum. Until we have such information then i am really missing your point about furcolow. And besides. What is so bad about policy lynches. If someone is scummy by nature having them survive in itself will do the town damage. Damage limitation is in order. I would be voting furcolow now if in fact i was not so sure that Xscorpion is most likely scum.

Add in the fact that Amrun has claimed SILENCER, a scum role that has NO BENEFIT to the town
and I'd call this blatant distancing

[Furcolow]

unvote

until i hear from everyone, vpb catches up, ddd comments, fonz catches up, admiral comments, etc etc etc

i want people to give reads, lists, and make cases
town will not stagnate on my watch with these nice replacements

[Furcolow]

Well, look at the kills at least, will you?
Poisoned, scumkill?
LlamaFluff killed by RC?
Hohum "removed from the bunker"? SK? 2nd faction?

[Furcolow]

i tried for a PI/Amrun lynch for like 1000 hours
of course i will join that
however, i would like to note the SCUM-ASSOCIATIVE-TELLS in my case from Feysal/pappumsrat were WITH AMRUN.

THEREFORE, I WAS RIGHT ANYWAYS IF AMRUN IS SCUM. IF AMRUN IS SCUM, SO IS FEYSAL.

[Furcolow]

vote: AMRUN

[Furcolow]

OMG VPB AND DDD SHARE LIKE ALL MY READS LOL

[Furcolow]

DDD, what do you think of Feysal's case on me?

[Furcolow]

Well, Mothrax was definitely better than I saw in MoHo, and IPie read like he did in I believe it was Cookie Thief, so I got dat meta
I would suggest BotS, he seems pretty bright sometimes, though he doesn't post enough and might be coasting... still could benefit a town alliance to include him. He "didn't understand the case on me"

Nacho is likely town as well.
TheAd I feel like is town due to meta, though I might have dipped into taking the easy out on that as I sort of used him to buddy as town to deter my wagon as town, even if I wasn't 100% on him. He was aggressive towards me and voted me when I pressured him, then backtracked and has been defending me.

summary:
what do you think of BotS/Nacho/TheAd as town?

[Furcolow]

I've been up all night, and it is negatively effecting my posting
:/
going to go lay down

[Furcolow]

I'm alive because the 2 scum groups (which we just figured out) know I am fairly obviously a town they can rely on to not make a good decision

[Furcolow]

If you all want me out of the game so bad, perhaps you should read my fucking iso
I've been the only person in this god damn town trying to scumhunt

vote: Feysal

this is fucking obvious
where the fuck is his lurking scummy ass
i also will definitely hop onto smarg
DP is dumb even if he is scum so the other team can just kill him easily

[Furcolow]

by my numbers, it is probably 7v4v3v1 or 8v4v3 if two scumteams (pretty sure now)

Furc's rolename is likely town.

Oh yea?

Furc needs to come in and explain himself, now.

Steph - GW was lurking and refusing to give input.

If the vig missed the replacement announcement, I can easily see the vig shooting to try to get rid of an unreadable player.
VOTE: Furc

This FoS of steph makes me believe smarg/stephoscope scumteam
I am also certain Feysal is scum, but you all won't wagon his lurking ass

unvote; vote: Smarg

i look to be the only person even isoing people at this point, and with half of your asses as scum, there's no surprise there when the town with me appear to be thead, lowell, dp, etc style players.... im so fucked, this town is terrible

[Furcolow]

the fonz = jmj
wonderful
now i know why hes voting me

[Furcolow]

unvote;
vote: amrun

I just did a little researching, and I've found something I find suspicious. I am not going to just openly bandwagon - I'm going to lynch who I find to be scum.

Amrun is likely scum, even if his play appears pro-town and detailed. I have picked up on something he does as scum. I will have to see if he does this as town as well. I will be right back. researching!

jeez, this is going to sound like a weird case.
ok, as scum, the first thing i noticed he does (in verona mafia) is ask really lilting toned questions, as seen here:
"So your sole reason for voting for me is you think other people are scum?"
How does that further discussion? I didn't even have to look off this page!!

FURTHERMORE, I saw a game of his as town... around 20 posts... he doesn't quote a single person. He just makes informative posts about his analysis as town, which he is not doing here, and he is also quoting people here. Coupld that with this: He quoted excessively as scum, and I feel there is a pretty good case on him.

On top of that, PoisonIvy considering the nationalities actually felt like a slip to me. I know a lot of people dismissed it, but it was a strike against the slot for me.

This is all I have, but I mistook Amrun for Artem

the case is about Artem, in actuality, but noone was receptive to his lynch as his meta seems sooooo protown

check out how protown he appears in verona mafia
this mirrors that
also, i will find the game where he didnt quote ONCE as town.. hold on

ehhh... i'm wrong. I must have made a mistake. His play is actually similar to his town play.

I had him then I backtracked
I feel like an idiot over this
If I had only not mistaken them for Amrun, my tunneling would have been successful 2 weeks ago

[Furcolow]

^^spoken like someone who knows how I'm going to flip.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Steph

This doesn't work in a two faction game, sorry

[Furcolow]

neighbor..
quicktopic...
scum don't have those, do they
har har har
my vote remains

[Furcolow]

UNVOTE: smargaret

Brandt does look pretty peaceful.

LOL. Having succeeded wonderfully with a couple of 'That sounds like a warlike name!1!' wagons, are we going to see a wagon die on the basis of 'that sounds like a peaceful name?' I mean, don't get me wrong, i don't really see how anything smarg has done is worse than the equivalent actions from DP. But letting someone you think is scum off the hook because of their name... man.

If smarg is truthful, then the fact that Brandt is a neighbour rather than a mason makes me think a Yanqui scum group is likely.

the fonz = jmj
wonderful
now i know why hes voting me

If you believe I'm playing to my scum meta, you are completely wrong
You must not have read any of the 4 scum games I provided you, did you?
Because if you're claiming you're voting me on meta, you are a terrible player
Yeah, and you being a horrific detriment to town, and the guy who pointed out you playing to your scum meta having been NKed aren't good reasons or anything.

Would it make sense to say that, regardless of Smarg's alignment, there's probably some sort of scum on the Smarg wagon IFF there are two scum groups?

If that's the case, there's probably scum on all the wagons. The thing is, unless you've got a strong inclination that there's a particularly large or small concentration, that's of little use. Because knowing that there is at least one scum in ten people doesn't narrow it down any more than random lynching would.