Mini 1138 - Candy Zoo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Kalofer]

I'm going to wait for someone with an anime picture to post so I can randomly vote for them.

[Kalofer]

but if no one shows up with such a thing VOTE: Stels, for doing something horrible to parknourie you ruthless animal.

[Kalofer]

yeah what the hell, forget muppets with guns, this guy is specifically a muppet with a fedora while at the same time wielding an AK-47?! A tommy gun would have been much more consistent with typical mafia stereotypes, and speaking of mafia, guns and inconsistency

UNVOTE: VOTE: Hoppster

[Kalofer]

Vote: Kalofer

Since I'm inevitably going to become his target.

I suppose, but while I do hate anime I do like piano, and since from your name I assume that you like piano too I guess it cancels out to give a neutral, for now.

anyone want to go RQS?

NO!

[Kalofer]

I suppose, but while I do hate anime I do like piano, and since from your name I assume that you like piano too I guess it cancels out to give a neutral, for now.

I LIKE THE PIANO TOO. I DEMAND THAT YOU UNVOTE ME. (I do actually play the piano.)

HOW DARE YOU, I do not take orders from Russian spetsnaz thugs, my vote is here to stay. (what music do you like?)

[Kalofer]

Also, where are you from crazy
Twisted and Hopper do you like anime?

Twisted, I give you my personal permission (which counts for nothing but I guess now you feel better that you have it amirite?) to proceed to the RQS.

[Kalofer]

I thought you didn't want RQS?

anyways, I'm new to RQS. only discovered it a few days ago. Someone else should start if they want to go down that path

I despise RQS, but since I asked some random questions already I didn't want to turn out being a hypocrite (I hate hypocrites) even though to be fair I don't think my RQs qualify as the type asked in RQS. Either way I'd be happier if we proceed straight into the serious phase (I'm not sure how that happens to be honest) where we still don't do anything but at least make it look as if we do something and have less of an excuse of doing something stupid (side note, I like to act stupid but I'm hoping it's just my particular mood today and that the monotonous routine of school will make me a bit more serious).

Still though, since I like RVS I'd like to wait for those who haven't said anything yet to add their humorous comments before we "really" start.

[Kalofer]

I propose we play the first day like a normal mafia game and see where it leads us, either we learn something after the first night or at worst we come back to these arguments and can build off of them. The whole candy thing I see as a kind of WIFOM at the moment, I don't think we're getting far with everyone accusing everyone else of being scummy for either knowing or not knowing something, seems like blind guessing to me and I'd rather it not be done. And to add, it's just as possible that those who are accused of "knowing more" or looking suspicious could be town PRs as well as scum.

Vezok, call me an idiot (it's ok, many people have called me that) but I don't fully kinda grasp your question or how a given answer will affect anything, can you please expand it or maybe even reveal your "crack" since after all, holding information back when you're town when you know bout something that can help town isn't very townie (I understand maybe you need to hide something and present your views at then end but really, where are you going with this gimme something more to work with). From how I interpret the question however, and from what I've seen, I don't think "evil people" maybe even care since the mod showed what goodies there are in his first post. Also, where are you from?

@Mod, if possible can you please display vote count, thanks

Oh and since RVS is over UNVOTE:

[Kalofer]

mb53, expect an answer to your "who do you think is scum, kalofer" question tomorrow when I hopefully will have a better chance to review and focus everything said and done.

[Kalofer]

Note: I am writing this post up as I'm reading the current thread from start to finish, any problems you may have with it...DEAL WITH IT.

Quote number 1:

if we're going to go into the psycology of smilies then yes, you could say I usually dissaprove of vote switching in RVS . You RVS for pressure - why would you destroy reasonless pressure on one person to push reasonless pressure on another?

anyone want to go RQS?

I think the answer to your first question is this: so that a person can latch onto that (in this case hopp) and from the miracle of the science of collision theory a series of serious posts based on more or less nothing can spring up, with player A (TS) and player B (hopp) clawing at each others throats (later to be joined by more players) and officially begin the game. From this big bang springs the universe of the mafia game and here we are now. (Call it Kalofer's creation theory, also if you don't know what collision theory is don't worry about it, this paragraph is mainly reasonless anyway).
In questioning your question I would like to ask if it's all reasonless, why did you make a big deal out of it? Furthermore, why such a negative view of RVS, why is it about pressure, and if you think so then why do you make it seem with that post like you're under pressure? To me ,RVS is the most fun part of the game, but then the boring old creation mechanic has to occur.

Quote number 2:

I have enough reasons to believe that when town has a special mechanic and they don't use they end up losing.

For example: Mafia on Holy Orders. The town didn't bother too much with the mechanic and they ended up losing the game.

I game I played on another site: There was a mechanic that allowed people to connect to other people. Town was afraid that scum might do stuff to them if they connect and didn't try to connect to much. They ended up losing.

That's why I think mechanics should be exploited because it favors the town more than the scum.

Those are two examples you gave us with little elaboration, you don't know if that mechanic is biased in favour of scum or town, or do YOU? and are you trying to pass it off as a pro town thing to acheive your goals? Makes me suspicious.

Quote number 3:

And I found a way to break the game open.

Do evil people want to know your goodies? Y/N

Just answer and say nothing more. Everyone has to do this.

Me no likey this, especially when coupled with one of your latest posts, where if I'm not mistaken you claim you don't know anything about the game (I'll come to that too just you wait)

Quote number 4:

I was going to vote vezo for suggesting a mass claim, but then I saw this

And I found a way to break the game open.

Do evil people want to know your goodies? Y/N

Just answer and say nothing more. Everyone has to do this.

Yes. I see where you are going with this.

Vote: Morthas

, for basing his answer off of the example role PM, instead of his own (because he didn't get a town PM of his own.)

Can you please tell everyone where he is going with this or if not then keep your mouth shut and let him go on with it if you DO know and not tease us by saying you know where, but not telling us, that's scummy at least in my view it is. I want an answer.

Quote number 5:

I assume mafia would want to know our ingredients. That's why we have a closed setup, no?

therefore it's bad that vezok suggested a mass claim

hoppster is acting all suspiciousy. He's accused me of rolefishing. It's hard to beat Vezok at that though.

anyways, It looks like hoppster might know too much for VT too.

I completely disagree here, hoppster made a valid point concerning you, yet I do not believe that particular point of his carries weight into making you look like scum and I don't like how you try to make it look as if everything hopp says is scummy, COS IT'S NOT, and that's why you are in the situation you are now. And furthermore your last point refers to the game mechanic and IMO as I stated before it is WIFOM to me and I will not comment on it. Yet I will comment that if you don't put your act together and think a bit more before you post you will get my vote simply because your irresponsibility is annoying me, while I do understand that you may have personal probs with hopp, it is not excuse to accuse him of being scum for the littlest things, or if it is going to be an excuse it's only going to be a good excuse if you support it with more argument/evidence/whatever.

Quote number 6:

Hoppster is trying very hard to sound town.

FoS

What consequence is there to answer whether bad guys want your goodies or not?

Why is he trying so hard to sound town town to you? His points make sense enough to me and don't seem anti town in any way, please expand your argument sil vous plait. And as far as I'm concerned at least he's trying, you're not as far as I can tell.

Quote 7:

Twistedspoon seems town to me >_>

Hoppster: Seriously. You can't just go around saying "AH BLAH BLAH ANSWERING THAT QUESTION IS SUPER SCUMMY, DON'T DO IT" and not explain WHY it is bad.

Oh I'm sorry did you explain where vezok's question is going? Hypocrite.

Quote 8:

You guys still aren't saying why it is bad to answer...

I

see no harm in it.

starting to piss me off now.

Quotes 9 + 10:

Hoppster and Zyrconium= Scum buddies tunneling on someone (who isn't scummy)

Unvote, Vote: Hoppster

I think Zyrconium's last statement puts more evidence against him.

Anyway, everybody lynch TS now, it's already taken too long.

Right, because it hasn't even been a day since the game has started.

Unvote: Vote: Zycronium

unvote, vote: Zycronium

Both scum, it does't matter who is lynched first.

OMG REALLY? Zyrc was only joking, I'm pretty sure he didn't mean it and that single statement is not enough to be lynched for a day, if your votes are serious though, can you at least say something more about why zerc is scummy.

Quote 11:

Who do you think is scum kalofer?

I'm answering that now actually.

Quote 12:

I think both of you are town.

Need some in-actives in here. Pretty please? =)

This post tells me you're either hiding more stupidity or intelligence than you're showing, and you better show what you're hiding quick, my patience is running out.

Quote 13:

my vote is for pressure btw

It's working. You're driven by rage and no pro-town motivation whatsoever anymore.

once you had a small town read and now it's back to tunneling whilst hiding behind it and declaring your love for players who had a town read on you.
infuriating.
I'm only still here today because I want to ask vezok some more questions.

oh non mon ami, i belyv iz yu hu iz, hau yu se, driven by la rage, and I would like you to correct me if I'm wrong THIS INSTANT.

Quote 14:

Jesus. $ pages in only a few hours?

Anyway

How is it not obvious that Twisted is Scum? At this point, his only defense against Hoppster is "OMG TUNNEL TUNNEL TUNEL COZ U SAID THAT U LUV ZYRC"

Vote: Twisted

And, I'm pretty sure mb is his scum buddy. He's probably backing off now that Twisted is getting himself into some serious shit.

Please participate more and then vote please, I hate it when people come in out of the blue, make only one valid point (ok it's valid but it's still only 1) and then disappear and if their votee is lynched it's like they never existed and are ignored as being on the bandwagon.

Quote 15:

Also, although I don't really like to go too much into closed game mechanics at such an early stage, but has anyone noticed that there were 2 kills pre-game (even though they aren't actually players). I don't know general mafia team setups for mini-themes (2 mafia, or 1 large(r) mafia), but since there were 2 kills, it already suggests something...

oh really, and what does it suggest? Either make those suggestions now, expand your view or stfu cos I see it as being nothing more than flavour, and don't you mention this again unless you actually got something important to say.

Quote 16:

reading this page you guys seem to want me to destroy the cases against me.
But flailing and defending myself is scummish.
Scumhunting is the best defence and hopefully I'll move onto hat soon.

Oh, and i've seen a pattern that scum are always going after the most active players in my games.
Curse my high posting rate.

anyways, I expect the real scum to be lurking so far, and will try and comment on this when more people get to posting

I knorite? scum hate people making fools of themselves and barely doing anything, they despise those people the most don't they, I mean they absolutely deteste them do they not, don't you agree that they are sickened by those people, furthermore don't you believe this paragraph of mine is saturated with sarcasm? EVERYONE MUST ANSWER Y/N NOW GOD DAMMIT!!!!

Quote 17:

Oh. I see. I thought everyone had that thing and all the townies would have known why I was asking the question. Turns out I was wrong.

In this case I don't want a mass claim anymore and I don't want that question answered.

Well thanks for the wild goose chase/green caviar hunt, what are you planning on doing now that your brilliant scheme got burnt down and you tell us so much time after?

Quote 18"

Well, I saw what you saw vezo.

Who do you think is scum?

Please join us lurkers

I keep wanting to call out lurkers, then realize that its only been 1 day, so its not really considered lurking :3

Well did you really now?, good job on basing so much suspicion and some votes if I'm not mistaken about something that's been proven to be wrong now, great job.

Quote 19:

like i say, I don't see the point in defending myself 5 pages in but to keep you guys happy, I'll say that scum would never be as active as me, I wasn't rolefishing, and my pro-townness outweighs my anti-towness

That's as far as I'll go on defending myself for now. I don't have time to talk about the only confirmed townie I know of in the game (me), when there are 12 other players who could be scum for all I know.

@Vezok: true, but I scumhunt better than i defend, and that's what I prefer to do 5 pages into the game. Defending myself at this point is just silly and only scum usually want to waste time by getting players to do this.

You've so far been focusing mainly on one person with the reason (I'm guessing) being that he pwnd you in a previous game and have THE NERVE to announce how town you've been after filling the thread with so many posts 80% of which are more or less useless?!?!?!?! I feel offended.
THE HELL you better start defending and explaining myself before I personally hang you for pure annoyance, frankly I'm starting to care less and less if you're scum right now and I don't care how scummy that makes me sound. I don't give a damn how scummy it is to defend yourself it's not like you're being particularly useful scumhunting anyone except hopp and anyone who slightly agrees with him anyway.

Quote 20

If i was scum I'd be

a lot

less active and be defending myself

a lot

more.

How can i scumhunt when you guys are at my necks?

Once you stop tunneling, you'll see which direction we need to head in.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, now you're not scumhunting simply because we're "at your necks" just after you said you'd much rather be scumhunting than defending yourself and...wait a minute...when did you ever scumhunt? Seriously, is your little brother sabotaging your account or are you doing this on purpose?
Please, TwistedSpoon, redeem yourself, you can win back your honour, please just do something...rational, you'll get my support at least, but just stop whatever it is you are doing now PLEASE.

I will give conclusions when what I consider to be my most important questions in this post are answered, until then

VOTE: TwistedSpoon

since despite everything, I simply cannot resist.
MB and vez, you're next.

[Kalofer]

I knew I should have gone with inventor mafia >_>

I guess I'll have to claim before the next person votes

oh non mon ami, i belyv iz yu hu iz, hau yu se, driven by la rage, and I would like you to correct me if I'm wrong THIS INSTANT.

corrected

don't assume that i didn't consider you guys would see it as OMGUS. 'Twas for pressure which hoppster responded to.

You've so far been focusing mainly on one person with the reason (I'm guessing) being that he pwnd you in a previous game

I have never played with hoppster at mafia before. I'm not sure where you got this idea from. I've already had one player making a personal judgement of my mafia history

Please, TwistedSpoon, redeem yourself, you can win back your honour, please just do something...rational, you'll get my support at least, but just stop whatever it is you are doing now PLEASE.

will do

anyways, If anyone else declares an intention to place a vote on me, then say so, and I'll claim

This was the post I was looking for in deciding whether to ultimately lynch you or not. Since you claim you don't know hopp and you confirm that you thought he was raging after I said it's prob you, then that means you have absolutely no excuse whatsoever in your persistent focusing on hopp and even the starting jokey RVS insults and as such to me you are clear of all manner of town newbie excuses possible, you are either scum, or if you're not, then you're an incompetent townie (in my opinion). The only question that remains is why did you focus on hopp so much then? If you're scum I'll get my answer if you're not well then...meh I won't care, I prob know anyway.

[Kalofer]

UNVOTE:

As this is not an example of what the mod said was a VT role, then 1 of the following must apply:

a) TS truly is what he says he is (some sort of townie PR) and as such lynching him would be bad for town
b) he made it all up

I really doubt he managed to make all of that up as well as being careful enough to add the nice little green letters and phrase it so well. In this case perhaps we should spare him for the time being (again until perhaps the 2nd day will reveal the mechanic better) and focus our attention on other people. I am liking toasty's post on zyrc and am wondering as to whether I should commit a vote.

Morth I believe what amrun meant (and this is what I'm thinking now) is that for a townie role to target something that someone has and take it would sound a bit scummy, but once again I suggest that there be very little if any speculation regarding the mechanics, vezok said he had a "crack" and that got us nowhere.

.

oh really, and what does it suggest? Either make those suggestions now, expand your view or stfu cos I see it as being nothing more than flavour, and don't you mention this again unless you actually got something important to say.

What got up your ass this day? Pretty obvious that I already suggested something like 2 scum teams or 2 kills by one scum team, even if it's just flavor. I don't know whether what I said is reality, but it's out there for speculation. Yet as no one explained to me the game mechanics for mini themes, I don't know whether there actually are 2 scum teams...

the only thing up my ass is your stupidity, 2 scum teams in a 13 player game? What are you smoking?
Nah I kid, but at least with that post you do strike me as town (don't think scum would say something like that)

[Kalofer]

Kalofer, I assume that since my response post didn't get responded to, that I had an adequate defense? Or did you just miss it?

Adequate? I suppose. I'm still not liking (not in a personal sense) you that much though, mainly for your short posts, constant vote changing and aggressive behaviour, still I guess you are giving excuses for the vote changing and your aggressive behaviour is giving me town vibes. Also you do look like you're scumhunting. But I'm still keeping my eye on you.

Right now I'm kinda lost into thinking who is scum. The posts made against zyrc are good and logical, but I'd like to hear his response before placing a vote. Vezok strikes me as a strange individual, he's giving me null/scum tells. Amrun is giving me a null tell, she's been active but just posting what I see largely as irrelevant things I guess. Still she could just lurk like all the others so I don't know.

start thinkin he's just a VI

:3

not VI, just reckless townie

Don't worry, morth likes calling people idiots/morons

[Kalofer]

*sigh*

Well I don't think that's all the defending the case deserves, especially after the case has managed to get you to L-2. I'd like to know what you think of MB's accusations of you sheeping. Despite this however I'm just not feeling you as scum.
And since I'm not feeling anyone as scum I might as well vote a lurker for now till something new crops up, but I would vote for you as long as it immediately kills you just as long as we get to see what you are to make sure, but after it still being day one and relatively early considering the short posts, I guess I'll wait a bit for some of the lurkers to come back.
For now VOTE: crazypianist

[Kalofer]

I'm dead then

ah well, I know you can win this one for me town.
I was town aligned, shame you didn't believe me

have fun guys, all the best

what?

I thought I was dead

ah, well you've seen my post-game thoughts, so that makes me a confirmed townie now amiright?

No, you're not right, you're acting like an idiot again. But this time I believe you. Speculating about whether he is scum or not based on his claim is WIFOM, becuase, as he said he would have just as easily copied the mod townie role message to completely clear all doubts. By doing this he has created more doubts, why would scum do that? And why would (if his role PM is what he says it is but not town) would he just reverse the role alignment without reversing everything else, again I believe that would be stupid. And the biggest reason why I think he's town is because at least his stupidity is concordant and I am seriously asking myself what kind of a scum no matter how stupid would still go on being soooo (I dunno which word to use) dorky?

Hoppster: I re-read OP and agree with you. All 13 are suspicious.

I just re-read my role PM and decided something.

VOTE: twistedspoon

I believe his claim, all right. I believe that it's scum claiming his real role and attaching green text to it.

If twisted flips town, we learn something about the set-up and I learn something about my role PM.

If twisted flips scum, as I believe he will, we probably found a scumbuddy in mb53.

I had planned to make a case on him today and give twisted the benefit of the doubt, but I mis-remembered something about my own role and just realized it.

I'm starting to get a better handle on this game, I think.

You imply your role is different from the others, and I want to know exactly why you still think TS is scum and want to treat him like a lab rat. And tell us your better handle of the game, last time someone had one of those we ended up nowhere.

[Kalofer]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mb53

Hoppster just said it all, so much contradiction is just too much to handle especially with absolutely zero revelation and so many claims to "know, trust and be sure". I want your thoughts in full and what exactly your role PM states about being sure that TS is scum.

I'm guessing the role PM of candy animal says that bad guys will try to steal your goodies?

If so, then I'm an exception

HOW CAN YOU GUESS THAT IF YOU'RE TOWN?

This is not a bastard mod. You know that you're town. Why speculate on PMs saying "bad guys will steal your goodies" if you KNOW that good guys do?

Perhaps he took it off of what vezok's first question was. So I don't think what he said is that bad as you make it look out to be. And to answer your question: it's cos he's a funny bunny who doesn't take this game seriously anymore and just writes the first thing that comes to his head.

My current opinions of people are:

mb53: scummy, I want him to reveal everything, I'm sick and tired of his annoying posts agreeing with people, saying that he knows things, agreeing with people when they say that they know things (while funnily enough trying to accuse the hell out of zyrc for sheeping) and for being inconsistent and constantly changing his views about everything (whether the last one is classically scummy or townie it still pisses me off).

Vezok: null to scum read, rolefishing seems interesting, the way mb supported him seems interesting, relatively little posting and scumhunting seems interesting, and as another point of interest, not stating his opinion on the amrun conspiracy (that TS is scum) while at the same time believing TS's claim seems slightly interesting (I'm pretty sure scum would divide themselves on a case between supporters and critics to try and prevent people from seeing similarities). What the hell are you seeing? Will someone say something openly for once for the love of God!?

Hoppster: Null. Brings up some really good points and seems to be pro-town to me with what I see as active scumhunting. But, lately I do think he is trying too hard to be a townie as well as a few recent posts which I found strangely odd (I'll look at them again and decide, CBA now though).

Crazypianist1116: null. More posts containing stances, opinions and reasons are needed (and maybe votes).

Hazard with a glove: I don't know, could go either way, could really know something as he says he does (doubt it though) or again could be one of those scum going against the case/wagon.

Nobody Special: null, just repeated a lot of what had already been said, but to be fair still hasn't finished reading the whole thing.

Toasty Toast: null, doesn't strike me as either, could go either way.

Amrun: town, I don't think scum would start such an original wagon as amrun did after TS claimed town, knowing that (if amrun was scum) TS would flip town.

Morthas: meh, town. Observer player who doesn't really do THAT much.

Stels: town, just look at the guy, I don't know but personally while I do allow that scum may speculate about the mechanics like vezok and rolefish, this guy takes it a whole step further and suggests that the two "people" killed before could mean there's two scum teams...WTF? Oh wait a second, is that you charlie sheen? You should really lay of the drugs dude, they're not doing you any good, but don't worry, even if you lose you'll still be winning.

Zyrconium: I have no idea, I'll have to review your posts again, but compared to other scum, and because you're Scottish I'll put you at town.

TwistedSpoon: I dunno, but I prefer the WIFOM that he is an honest idiot to the WIFOM that he is a scheming little devil. The guy makes no attempts to save himself, after the pressure valve got loosened when at the start most believed his claim he goes on to make himself suspicious again, he's a suicidal maniac s'all he is.

[Kalofer]

If everyone -- and I do mean EVERY PLAYER -- comes in and says they want me to paraphrase the particular part of my PM that makes me feel so strongly, I will do so.

I'd like you to do that too.

Frankly the way I see things is that both of you are town, TS because after getting off the hook with his claim continued acting so foolishly outwardly scummy that I just can't believe he is scum anymore. You (amrun) I also see as town because I really don't believe scum would (knowing that TS is town) revive a case against him which said scumbag knows is going to fail. For this reason I would like to see your role PM. If you don't reveal it and we lynch TS and he turns to be town, I for one am definitely going to want some answers if not a lynch. And think about it that when we lynch TS and he flips town, scum, knowing that you are town will nightkill someone else and let the rest of the townies grill you during day 2 (which I think is the worst case scenario).
Now if you are right however, and TS flips scum, nobody is going to suspect you of being scum for what you did and so you are most likely going to be the nightkill for the night since no one will doubt you (unless you are framing TS to make yourself looks so town which I doubt).

And if you reveal your role PM now, and we lynch TS and he turns out to be scum, then again you will probably be nightkilled (and then scum will know your role but I don't see what's the big deal if they do). But if you reveal your role PM now and TS flips town at least the damages won't be as bad as if you hadn't revealed your role, and town will learn as much as scum and we might not lynch you in day 2 because it was your role PM's fault and not yours.
In short I'm basically trying to create a plan B after and if we lynch TS for the bes possible scenario to town, and if you are wrong (which I think you are about TS) and don't tell us your role PM, then the worst case scenario is going to occur and we definitely don't want that do we?
IMO the pros of you claiming far outweigh the cons and I would like to see your role PM before deciding if we should lynch TS.

[Kalofer]

Morthas you lazy prick

[Kalofer]

I want to know what's so bad about scum knowing your role PM. Can you please explain?

[Kalofer]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY AMRUN, wish you all the best and hope you won't spend your time chatting with us but partying as well!

[Kalofer]

Yet the possibility may still exist could it not? So I'm guessing he's either the town aligned candy zoo visitor or the mafia aligned visitor

Ok I guess the role PM does make sense and now I have less of an objection to lynching TS (other than that I still think he's town). Lynch him if you want but I want no part in it. I still think we should go for the mb lynch for his many inconsistencies. Evil people may be italicised to emphasise that it is evil people, and TS may not fall in that category. I'd like to know how day 2 is going to start if TS flips town, another townie is killed and amrun is still alive.

[Kalofer]

Why do you think vezok is scum?

[Kalofer]

Ok I guess the role PM does make sense and now I have less of an objection to lynching TS (other than that I still think he's town). Lynch him if you want but I want no part in it. I still think we should go for the mb lynch for his many inconsistencies. Evil people may be italicised to emphasise that it is evil people, and TS may not fall in that category. I'd like to know how day 2 is going to start if TS flips town, another townie is killed and amrun is still alive.

So basically your attitude is "Ok, lynch him. I think he's town but I'm not going to stop you"?

I already told you why I don't think you should lynch him and now that I see amrun's (and therefore everyone who supported amrun's case) point of view I guess through your interpretation maybe he does deserve a lynch, or at the very least because he posts just for the sake of it. Either way I guess at least now that amrun claimed even if TS is lynched the worst possible scenario is averted/mitigated so I can sleep a bit better at night. Ideally I'd like an MB or hazard lynch. The game is unfortunately at a stalemate state and this isn't helping at all but unless the hazard wagon gets enough support I won't change my vote unless something drastic happens, g'night.
HAPPY DAY AFTER YOUR BIRTHDAY AMRUN WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[Kalofer]

I'm here, still waiting for something I see as drastic to happen, I believe I have given my view on things as they stand now but if somebody wants to ask me a question they can feel free to do so (I regularly check the thread).

@morthas OMG I AM SOOOOOO OFFENDED!!!

[Kalofer]

@ Kalofer: I don't think a mb53 lynch is going to happen. Out of Zyrc and TS, whom would you rather see lynched?

I'd much rather see a zyrc lynch. In fact I'd much rather like to see a lynch of any of these people as opposed to lynching TS:

Hazard, MB, Crazy, Hoppster, Toasty, Nobody

If this is the only defense you've got you're scum.

and when i flip town?

GOOD QUESTION, and what will you do if he flips town? What possible information does town get? That an idiot wasn't scum? And then we have the nightkill of someone like amrun who can now be said to be a proven townie for nothing? And we start from day one with two townies less?
I would feel much better knowing that I eliminated what I see as a potential lurking threat in the form of all those people mentioned above, than feel relieved that an idiot who was puking so much scumminess he totally rocketed off from the scale of scumminess to falling on what I perceive as obvitown so far that I don't believe even WIFOM would excuse him of this (yes for the first time I am dealing with absolutes in a guessing game).

SO ANSWER THIS BEFORE YOU LYNCH:

WHAT WILL YOU DO WHEN/IF HE FLIPS TOWN?

[Kalofer]

refer to my previous posts to see why i think amrun is town, I'm pretty sure I explained it well enough.
I see morth as scumhunting and he doesn't strike me as having scum vibes, stels is a garbage-spewing idiot but who because of his garbage seems town and vezok because in the words of morth: "I feel like it".

[Kalofer]

Amrun: town, I don't think scum would start such an original wagon as amrun did after TS claimed town, knowing that (if amrun was scum) TS would flip town.

amrun who can now be said to be a proven townie

@ Kalofer: Is this it?

Your phrasing, 'proven townie', surely suggests something more along the lines of a bona-fide confirmed townie. You're willing to call somebody a

proven townie

based on conjecture?

Anyway, what exactly makes it an 'original wagon', when it went to L-1 with intent to hammer?

Furthermore, you're insinuating that because TS claimed town, scum are less likely to push the wagon. This I find quite frankly ridiculous. Nobody is going to claim scum. So basically, you're generalising to "scum don't push wagons post-claim". Really?

Awww how cute. Obviously one can't be 100% sure when playing a guessing game but as far as 100% goes in guessing games I'm sure that Amrun is town because IMO scum would definitely not re start a wagon on someone who they know is town only to get pressure on them the next day so they die as well. And the wagon got to L-1 before TS claimed, it didn't get to L-1 after he claimed. And it really strikes me as odd how you self proclaimed townies are pushing for a lynch without considering its consequences, so I will ask again: WHAT IF TS IS TOWN? And yes I am saying scum don't push wagons post-claim, why would they, knowing the person who claimed is town (or rather what I meant is while scum may push wagons post-claim, I would find it ard to believe that they actually START a wagon on a townie post-claim).

[Kalofer]

Also kalofer.
The fact is usually the first lynch might not be a Scum. Out of 13, how easy will it be to get 3/4 Scum?

So what ill do is the same thing when the person you want flips town. Especially since you want to lynch almost half the players.

NOOOOOOO REALLY?? I thought every person we lynch flips scum. When did I say I want to lynch half the players?

"So what ill do is the same thing when the person you want flips town", please clarify this sentence.

[Kalofer]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Hoppster

[Kalofer]

Wow, Kalofer, gonna bother to explain? Is that pure OMGUS?

naaaaah I'm doing it for the lulz

[Kalofer]

Very interesting theory hoppster, I'm not telling you anything though so yeah whatever.

[Kalofer]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Nobody Special

[Kalofer]

why would I attack someone I believe to have the same role as me? If I believed them to be mafia, then sure, but otherwise why would I?

CAUGHT YOU CAUGHT YOU CAUGHT YOU SCUM!!!!

@ Twisted: Any

inkling

of what Hazard's reasons are? Y/N.

how can I?
I don't have his Role PM

????????

Lol hoppster you're funny

[Kalofer]

Well hoppster, I would vote for myself, but you see I'm trying my best to lynch NS and toasty who I'm willing to bet money on are scum (or one of them is at least). Sorry to disappoint but although I do consider myself TS's buddy (sorry for the many times I've insulted you TS) I am not his scumbuddy, on the contrary I'm his townbuddy . On another positive note you're no longer on that list of people I'd much rather see lynched.

[Kalofer]

Toasty and NS, you're scum, I shall make no case. Btw, TS is town, sad it had to end this way TS, sad that nobody believed us that you were town and sad that nobody cares for the future and just wants to lynch you without considering the consequences, again I'd like to apologise for the many times I've insulted you and wish you good luck in your other games, hope we play again sometime.

and yes, I have gone insane

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TwistedSpoon

[Kalofer]

IT'S TS HAMMER TIME (yeah should have said that in the previous post)

I realistically see TS being lynched because we simply don't have support for any of the other wagons, and the day has dragged on for quite a while. Also hopp, I believe you took TS a bit too seriously with all your cases, judgments and reads as I'm sure you'll see now. Good night everybody!

[Kalofer]

Good day everyone.

On behalf of TwistedSpoon and myself, I would like to shout out: I TOLD YOU SO!!!

[Kalofer]

Ah good, an NS wagon. That make kalofer happy.

VOTE: Nobody Special

At least no one died.

Ugh. Sorry for my role in the TS lynch. I guess PMs can't be trusted.

I don't think Hazard gets off the hook, but not ready to lynch him.

I don't think it's role PMs that shouldn't be trusted, I think it's your interpretation of role PMs that shouldn't be trusted so everyone shut it with your damn role PMs and remain open-minded as to what they can mean.

[Kalofer]

What's your problem with two people voting NS...and a third considering it?
Isn't it obvious he's been constantly buddying and very opportunistically jumped on the TS wagon and barely said anything after that, barely taking part in the interesting arguments we were all having.

[Kalofer]

mb: Day 1 I was catching up on the bajillionz of posts that TS and everybody else was making. Also, TS was scummiest IMO. AND HE LIED ABOUT HIS PR. There is never any reason for a Town player to lie. Never.

yeeeeah cause TS had a lot of reasons to do the many many other weird things he did. Here's a few reasons why townies would lie: bad player, couldn't care less, has to lie to protect himself (as TS said). Or if you don't agree with those reasons make some up of your own cos TS was a lying townie reason or not. Obviously you're going to have to give some much better excuses if you don't want to get lynched.

[Kalofer]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I'm back.

so I've been reading this right, and I'm like duuuuude so many theories, disagreements and arguments. And you're all assuming these theories are correct and stuff it's just weird. Maybe if the urge comes I'll take my time to properly read these in an attempt to understand what the hell you funny bunnies are on about but for now I'll just say that I don't think you guys should concern yourselves so much with theories and stuff I mean you saw how many theories there were with TS and the one that seemed most right was soooooo wrong (ahem amrun and hoppster). And I think you guys should just open your minds to all the possibilities and chill a bit. Seriously, try smoking like a bag of weed before you post (or eating a lot of candy, it is a candy zoo after all).

[Kalofer]

LEAVE HAZARD ALONE YOU MEANIES!

[Kalofer]

You guys are SERIOUSLY not using your imagination as the MOD suggested.

Morthas, the only thing we are going to find through what you're saying is whether hazard is scum or not, as if we wouldn't find that out if we lynch him anyway. Furthermore you assume that scum don't have a visitor role with the same powers. HOW NARROW MINDED OF YOU! How about you think more before you post and accuse other people of being stupid you insensitive and pompous little git.

That fits NS' meta that I have seen. Doesn't mean he's not scum, but the argument on him is weak -- very weak.

Yeeeees because the "strong" arguments here have been very successful. And it's not as if your argument of hazard being scum is particularly strong, but if you believe it is, please say why you think so (I don't care if you've posted it already in various smaller disorganised posts, I want it in 1 clear post)

[Kalofer]

and a scum would reveal his role as a visitor before doing something like that because...? Why don't we lynch NS to confirm whether he is scum or not since he also hopped on the TS wagon and helped TS flip town? It's the same thing, only without the visitor nonsense.
You know this reminds me of how the growth of something is measured (or how our biology book says it is). Since growth is not always proportional, and substances like water cause it to temporarily swell, growth is usually measured by checking the dry mass of an object. But to do that you must completely dry the object and kill it in the process. Now growth strikes me as a particularly unimportant feature to measure considering the cost it requires and I would especially think it unimportant when the thing we are measuring is one that is relatively young and close to extinction. Savvy?

[Kalofer]

Why don't you respect hazard's desire to keep it a secret?

[Kalofer]

. Kalofer, do you support his claim?

Yes I completely support hazard's claim, the mod said we are both visitors but he said we could be different alignments and we were given daytalk for 72 hours (the majority of which I missed due to my absence). I just got a message from the mod telling me I've been neighbourised with him.

TS didn't say anything about QTs.

TS didn't say because he probably didn't know because I definitely didn't know and I'm pretty sure Hazard didn't know either.
The whole thing is making me lean towards thinking Hazard is town but I don't know.

As for me I targeted hoppster during the night because I thought that if I got something then he was probably a town candy animal and I wouldn't have to worry about him and if I didn't then it probably meant he had nothing and was perhaps scum (since baddies are after goodies). On hindsight though, it was narrow minded of me to believe that scum definitely do not have goodies, but I am pretty sure he can't be another town visitor since that would mean (assuming hazard is a town visitor) that there would be 4 town visitors which I find unlikely

Either way after I targeted hoppster I got a PM telling me i got no results because my action failed. Personally I have no idea what that means though I am willing to lynch hoppster to investigate (I didn't start a wagon on him today because it would seem extremely scummy especially after I had said I didn't want to lynch him). After this came up though (and I rather it hadn't), nothing is stopping me from prioritising hoppster over NS.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hoppster

[Kalofer]

Meh, it's not like I didn't want to lynch him beforehand, now I guess I have more of a reason to do so. We can always go back to NS if you'd prefer that but frankly I couldn't care less.

In other words yeah I am confident that hoppster is scum, you're gonna have to wait for the logic bit though, and don't count on it.

[Kalofer]

Well you ain't gettin none...ok I may give you a bit since you were such a good mod last game.

[Kalofer]

Oh yeah thanks a lot zyrc, you just had to vote NS as soon as I unvoted him, thanks a lot. Hey also if you have the time, would you mind pointing out why you think stels is scum or directing me to the posts where you say so, he still strikes me as a useless retard but his particular stupidity is giving me town vibes. Still though I am all for lynching ignorant lurking babblers so count me in if that wagon takes off.

[Kalofer]

I'm sorry NS but are you aware of the situation here? Didn't you see my post where I confirmed Hazard's night action? And actually, who do you trust (or who do you trust to be town more than other people)?

[Kalofer]

Hmmmm, that's a tricky one amrun.
Well I'm sure I thought of him as being quite possibly scum at one point though I have completely forgotten the reason. Now I think he's scum because he seems to be acting too suspiciously townie to be town, just like TS was acting too scummy to be scum. I guess I'll re-read his posts to obtain a better opinion. Expect it soon-ish.

But how could you not trust me?! I feel so offended

[Kalofer]

THAT'S ENOUGH!
I HAVE HAD IT WITH THESE MOTHER******* ROLES IN THIS MOTHER******* GAME!!!

I'm going back to NS and toasty (and possibly stels). I find it very unlikely that hoppster made all of that up.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nobody Special

[Kalofer]

Toasty looking ever more scummy. Trying to appear more and more useful while being more and more useless

I find this quick topic thing to be a little sketch. If only Zoo visitors can get into a QT, thats like a possible 3-person masonry in a mini. OP. I think we have to assume that if a Visitor picks scum, they would also get into a quick topic. So, this does not make me automatically think Kalofer is town--a little skeptical. I do, however, have a stronger town-read on Hazard now that he has come out with the information.

Nobody Special's use of LAL is bad. Thats how TS died, if you've forgotten.

Amrun seems to clear people as town too quickly

Hoppster's claim is null: Hider's are typically a great scum claim, because they are hard to prove/disprove. The fact that he doesn't have to hide behind anyone makes this even moreso. Hoppster, what happens if more than one person targets you? Is there a limit to you hiding or do you have the power throughout the game?

Zyrconium is still on my scumlist, but my list as a whole has shifted.

Yeah it's a 3 person masonry which we didn't know anything about, I was just as surprised as everyone else when I got the quicktopic and I do think we "have to assume that if a Visitor picks scum, they would also get into a quick topic" BECAUSE I SAID SO. Why has the fact that hazard told you the info make you think he's more town? And what the hell gave you the idea that just because I confirmed the claim I'm town?
If neither you nor NS is scum, I'm probably going to start throwing coins from now on.

[Kalofer]

@Hoppster: Misrepping? Really now? Oh, I'm sorry, it's not my fault that his vote is actually being useless, with it being on Nobody Special who hasn't moved from L-4. My bad. And since he can't do anything but keep his vote on him, why not bother to pursue other targets? Did you ever think of that? Opportunistic scum is opportunistic, thanks Hoppster, you scum you.

Yet you don't vote me; oh the shame.

(SEE WHAT I DID THERE?)

ohhhhhhh I see what you did there

[Kalofer]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY VEZOK!!!

Yup, stels wagon is understandable, the guy has barely posted and whenever he does post he just makes himself look scummy all the time. I attribute it more to VI though and am still prioritising NS...for now.

[Kalofer]

lurking shmurking zyrc, I'm just waiting for the lynch/defense now.

[Kalofer]

DON'T YOU DARE SAY THE WORD CERTAIN WHEN PLAYING THIS GAME EVER!!!!!!!!

[Kalofer]

I'll hammer him tomorrow if no one else will, I'll probably have to be V/la from Friday to Tuesday/Wednesday and so won't miss much. Pity, I would have much preferred to have lynched NS.

[Kalofer]

On another note, I'd like to voice my concern over hoppster's night ability and so would like to make a suggestion that hoppster should come under serious consideration for a lynch if/when the game reaches LyLo (if that's what it's called, I've forgotten all of the abbrvs. here) and no scum had been lynched beforehand.

[Kalofer]

Talented music monkey...epic rofl
Mod you're amazing

[Kalofer]

I'd be more than happy to investigate stels if NS is lynched. You better make up your mind by 5 hours though.

[Kalofer]

Ok it's late and I'm going to be gone for a while as of tomorrow so let's dooooo this.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Stels

[Kalofer]

Stels is one dead monkey...the day the music died

[Kalofer]

I KNEW IT!
I HOPE YOU ALL GET DIABETES YOU GOD AWFUL SCUM!

Good luck town and btw stels your new avatar sucks (even more than your previous ones)