Charlie the Unicorn Mafia (GAME OVER)

[ReaperCharlie]

Sponge.

[ReaperCharlie]

The real question is: Who is the REAL Charlie the Unicorn here? You, or me?

I have a Lifetime Membership and two Lifetime Achievement Awards with the Unicorn Brethren.

What do YOU have? .............................. relatively nothing? I thought so.

[ReaperCharlie]

*Reagan

[ReaperCharlie]

What are you, the grammer police?

the grammer police?

grammer police

grammer

grammer

grammer

[ReaperCharlie]

Yeah. But still

Anyway, lets get down to confirming, slackers!

I wanna get straight to shunning the non-believers!!!!

[ReaperCharlie]

Game on.

Shun: Hiraki

for being last, and forcing me to wait to shun.

Shuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnn

[ReaperCharlie]

1. To be quite honest, I didn't even think of the fact that DIDDLE DIDDLE might not be his confirm-word.

2. I've been rabidly awaiting this mafia game since before Haylen's mind even conceived the first thought of it, by virtue of what I am; of course I'm gonna be rearing my hooves and whinnying at the starting gate!

3. I was quick to post after him because.... uh... I post a lot everywhere and this is in my bookmarks!

4. You misspelled my name.

5. Canada, eh? OMGUS.

[ReaperCharlie]

6. I WOULD NEVER BETRAY YOU GUYS. DUH

[ReaperCharlie]

btw, Unicorn Alliance! I am calling this shiznit right here and now!

[ReaperCharlie]

I vehemently protest.

You're shunning based on the fact a player has a post restriction. Very anti-town. Also, I feel this is Town post restriction simply because they're the most common. IMHO, kryptinen is cleared D1.

So you are completely writing off kryptinen as scum just because he/she has a PR? haaaaa dumb. This kind of pigeonholing is what makes people pay in the end. I wrote off Parama as scum in POWERFUL WIZARD MAFIA because of

this post

, and I MYSELF voted wrong twice in a 6-1 endgame after correctly nailing the other two scum. I had confirmational bias (town) on Parama and I let it blind me.

The fact that you're doing this on Day 1, on PAGE THREE makes me extremely suspicious of you because who as town would write somebody off this early.

Unvote; Vote: Charlie

. This is a serious vote.

I saw that too.
My thinking: expect some funky mechanics. I see a post restricted player; this must be one of those things.
Your thinking: expect some funky mechanics. You see a post restricted player; this player could be Mafia just to screw with us.

We have our differences, fine.

Yeah either that or the mafia have a fakeclaim of one of the blue or pink unicorns (the spanish speakers). Which makes sense from a modding standpoint, because they are the main characters except for Charlie. I would expect them to either be that, or masons. But I'm 200% sure they're in the game.

Also, the "we have our differences, fine" is a classic "ok, let's agree to disagree" that I see from scum who want to pacify a townie when it turns out their stance was unpopular. I almost NEVER see townies make any kind of pacification statements like this.

Rhinox is probtown due to #61. I can't see scum posting that. Scum would be more likely to hope that part went unnoticed and would want to pigeonhole things and try to create false subconscious leanings within people based on fallacies like "nobody with a PR could be scum".

@ tanstalas's #53: I have had this conversation before (posts #6, 11, 13, 14, 18), and I will have it again here. If Hiraki was scum and so was I, then why wouldn't we sit there and try to stretch it out for as long as possible. Me trying to start the game as soon as possible should make you think the exact opposite of "reaper is scum".

Also, the caveat to this is, like Magua says in post #13 of the topic linked above, if scum have daytalk. He's a fan of daytalking scum, and I, too, am a huge proponent.

Spoiler: Offtopic about daytalk (please don't MK me Hayl)

I think it makes the game dynamics MUCH more interesting, and I also believe it dramatically reduces scumslips by nipping them in the bud before they happen, mostly because the skilled scum can talk to the less skilled scum and coach them through the day.

This means: Better average scum play during that game, PLUS, the newbscum learns much more for the future, PLUS, there's much less chance for a Scummies-award-caliber player being screwed by some stupid teammate's f*ckup. So yes, I daresay I am a proponent of it.

I vehemently protest.

We have our differences, fine.

What prompted the change?

Ninja'd, but, I saw that too. Read my comments on it above.

[ReaperCharlie]

Whoops.

Shun: Charlie

And do you have anything else to say to my post?

[ReaperCharlie]

1. First, shut the f*ck up with your Jedi mind trick crap.
2. I don't care about whether you'd "rather" this or that.
3. If there are "tons of things", as you say: Get talking.

Do what I say, or I will lynch you.

Sincerely,
ReaperCharlie

[ReaperCharlie]

RC stole my thunder.

1. Whether krypt is town or scum because of his post restriction is a WIFOM argument. Why would anyone would WANT to try and write a player off as town so quickly? It makes no sense from a pro-town perspective.

2. Rhinox's vote doesn't look serious AT ALL. He said he didn't like having to translate everything, reasoning that is on par with OMGUS and pretty common for RVS. Charlie acted like he was proposing a policy lynch, which I don't see.

3. The switch from 'enraged at a really bad vote' to 'oh well we all have our own opinions' is really fake. Especially when you remember that NO NEW INFO was posted during the time in between. Charlie said he saw rule #1, so why didn't he apply that logic earlier? It's a staged fit followed by a quick retreat. Scummy.

Shun: Charlie

Get used to it.

[ReaperCharlie]

Okay, YOU tell ME why it's not a scummy thing to ask.

Its basically a way of saying "Was your vote a RV or not", I see no harm in that question.

Oh yes. There are tons of things I can pick on it, but I'd rather stay mum about it until more people post. Be patient, good things come unto those who wait.

How will more people posting change your answers? I agree with RC, if you have something to say, stop avoiding it.

Unshun, Shun: Charlie

Pressure vote

a) What the F*** is the point of a pressure vote if you say "Pressure vote" right afterwards? It entirely defeats the purpose.
b) What's with the smiley? Trying to tell everyone (including Charlie, who you're voting) that your vote is not serious at all?
c) How's it feel having a distraction in place so you don't have to vote anyone else? Good? I hope so. Now make a real vote.

[ReaperCharlie]

Questions

1. Your point number 6 is a common scum tactic, why are you using it?
2. Your point number 5 seems to be an attempt to get the focus of you through comedy. Why do you want the focus away from you?
3. Even though you didn't even think about the confirmation, did you consider awaiting Haylen's express permission to begin?
4. Was your eagerness just to play, or to push the focus onto a specific person?
5. Have you played any previous games with Hiraki?
6. Why did you make the alliance suggestion? Seems a bit scummy to me...

7. Why did you skip these?
8. Does your voting on Charlie have anything to do with him voting you?
9. Do we know the blue and pink unicorn's alignment?
10. If not, what do you think they are?

1. Why not? is a better question. I'm not worried about looking scummy.
2. It's called "comic relief."
3. Yea, but what good would it do, and who cares.
4. To play. That should be obv.
5. Not to my knowledge, but I play games with a lot of people. He's a Mass Effect dude like me, so I do know him from on site. Why do you ask?
6. No. Alliances are nothing if not EXTREMELY pro-town.
7. Cause I was busy/didn't see them/was too lazy/other miscellaneous reasons (i.e. I'm lying scum and I hate answering questions, I'm worried about whether people will nitpick my answers or not, etc)
8. Yes, but not directly in the way you're probably thinking.
9. Obv no. Why even ask this?
10. I already said I think they're likely masons or some other kind of linked role, like neighbors or something. Did you not see that?

Now, answer my questions in return, and then vote whoever I'm voting, and we'll be straight.

---

Anybody else ask me questions I didn't answer? Point me to 'em, please.
I'll be in and out of here, but don't have time tonight to read it all yet.

[ReaperCharlie]

ReaperCharlie: This is really more of a playstyle question, but do you think that your arrogance is helpful to the Town?

I think it can be. A certain level of stubborn obstinacy coupled with the right amount of charisma and humor can do wonders in terms of getting people to sheep you. And when you know beyond a doubt that you're right and nobody will listen to you, it's probably the most frustrating thing ever. And it also helps define me as a person and as a character when playing the game, so it helps people know where they stand with me.

Heh. Sorry if that's waxing a little too eloquent; I just got done writing something significantly more philosophical, and I'm not feeling very prone to succinctness at the moment. Anyway, why do you want me dead so badly again? Because I'm me? Or is it because of something I've done?

[ReaperCharlie]

Alliances have no place in mafia. We have no idea who is which alignment, and you're pissing me off.

Why so averse to the idea of an Alliance, NS? Whether that's because you weren't invited, or because you only ever remember me doing it as scum (HP mafia) I don't know, but Alliances are extremely pro-town, and there is a huge net benefit.

First, what is an Alliance?

I'll go over some parts of a game in which I was part of an Alliance, and later led it. I'll include a few quotes from either side of the argument, either pro-alliance or anti-alliance. Guess which side was which.

Town + Pro-Alliance (mostly me):

Ok easjo, I don't trust people in this alliance any more than you do. I was suspicious of Fate yesterday, and I am still suspicious of SpyreX and Merkabah. But as Merk said, the alliance IS a good tool. I'm certain that even if there are scum in the alliance (which there probably are), that they will either be forced to commit anti-scum actions for the sake of appearing town, or they will be exposed at some point. From what I can tell, the only downside to the whole idea is that we get less discussion time before lynching scum, which is not good.

I am ready to live or die by this alliance.

bitch plz.

the alliance is ensuring us the win, regardless of scum infiltration

You are supposed to auto-vote anyone I vote for. That's the whole point of the alliance.

When MME flips scum, then we can talk about whether or not the alliance is getting us anywhere.

Savvy?

Dear The Alliance,

I want to be in your pants.

Sincerely,

xRECKONERx

the Alliance is only so good as we're all town, and since we have no way of knowing that, there could easily be scum chilling with us.

This has been proven wrong multiple times thus far in this game.

Regardless of the presence of scum in the alliance (though obviously not desirable), the alliance itself is pro-town.

Scum + Anti-alliance:

You're STILL going with that Alliance shit?

No, it is not protown to maintain this alliance crap.

Let's say you blockvote the alliance all the way up to 3p LyLo. What are you going to do now? Nothing else but putting down a random vote as those 3 players will have the perfect excuse for being on every mislynch and every correct lynch there has been in this game. You're taking out scumhunting or a lack of out of the equation in a situation wherein you will need it the most.

Putting up or sustaining an alliance at this point is antitown. Just saying.

A few things to note:

- rcharlie only started flailing his arms and wanted a wagon on me after I dismissed his alliance once more
- several anti-alliance people died (lowell comes to mind)
- rcharlie has been too eager to have this alliance for 2-4 days already and is way too eager to be the one controlling it
- despite rcharlie having said that we should scumhunt now instead of relying on dreams, he still wants to blockvote, which imo contradicts that statement of his

Do with it what you will, but the alliance has been useless from since crypto was lynched. And I don't like rcharlie leading it (or thinking that he does) and it is clear he only wants it around to his own benefit.

Vote: reapercharlie

Regardless of my alignment, your alliance is antitown, reaper. Leading it like that is horribly antitown of you and you should have been lynched or suspected over it a hell of a lot sooner. I'm surprised that you even got a horde of townies together, but then again, they all were thinking what andy thought and were only concerned about their own survival. Lowell was right. The townies in the alliance have lost all common sense.

And here's one more by me-town:

Blockvoting does not negate scumhunting. It facilitates joint scumhunting between remaining known Innocent or probably Innocent members. Such is the nature of an alliance in the first place, to cut down on arguing between people who are confirmed or near-confirmed.

And I don't want a wagon on you because you're anti-alliance. I could care less if you're anti-alliance. Andrius and xReck have both said "enough of this alliance bs" too. It's not about that, and it seems pretty clear that you're using that as a straw man for my actual argument on you.

By the way: It's a given that there will be anti-alliance players. Do you honestly think I'm scum and NKing each and every anti-alliance player in systematic order, JUST so that I can have my cake and eat it too? And it is ALSO a given that some of the people that died would have been anti-alliance as well... quite a few people have died.

I have done my utmost to make sure that the least amount of pro-town people possible have died, and I think we've done a pretty good job of that so far. We've got nine scum dead so far, and only six townies. That's unprecedented.

And look at the endgame ratios:

ReaperCharlie - survived and won the game
Deer - survived and won the game
Nachomamma8 - survived and won the game
Shattered Viewpoint - survived and won the game
Andrius - survived and won the game
inHimshallibe - survived and won the game
xRECKONERx - survived and won the game
Dry-fit - survived and won the game
ZazieR - survived and won the game

My Milked Eek - lynched by Alliance

So really:

The only GOOD argument against an Alliance is that it's not playing the game the way it's meant to be played.
But you could also argue that Mass-claiming is the exact same thing, and yet Mass-claiming happens all the time.

In the same way that scum try to avoid Mass-claiming, scum don't like the formation of Alliances.

[ReaperCharlie]

Listen Umbrage, I don't care what you think, it is officially ALLIANCE TIME. Yes, it's true, it has come extremely early this game, but the time is already ripe.

There will always be pro-Alliance people, and there will always be Anti-Alliance people. You just have to decide which side of the fence you're on. The entire point is to have pro-town AND scummy people in the Alliance. If you don't get this, then you're missing the point.

(btw, did you even READ the quotes I posted? I spent a good while looking them up because I thought they adequately described stock attitudes of town and scum to the formation and continuation of Alliances. Please read them).

Anyway, here:

(proposed)

ALLIANCE MEMBERS

ReaperCharlie (via Unicorns)
Stefunny (via Unicorns)
tanstalas (via Unicorns)
Rhinox (via Unicorns)
Umbrage (I like his posting)

5 members is plenty for a game this size, at this point.

RULES

1.We all vote together. That means we all vote the same person, but we have to agree amongst ourselves who that person will be. Once we do that, it forms a blockvote effect that is pretty much unstoppable because nobody else can "control" our votes through manipulation, because we already have a standing agreement.

2. We can vote to invite new people into, or kick people out of the Alliance. This includes me, even though I'm starting it. I mean, as a non-Alliance member, people still CAN vote with the Alliance if they wish, but obv they don't have to. The Unicorns start in the Alliance, but only because I created it and it's a Unicorn game They are free to leave if they want.

3. Alliance gets pared down in size as the game does. Should be slightly less than half, if even that large. This ensures the maximum amount of helpfulness, usefulness, and trustability.

4. Remember, the main object of this entire idea of Alliances is to FORCE SCUMMY PEOPLE TO DO PRO-TOWN THINGS, AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE IF THEY DON'T.

Ok, now:

ALLIANCE HIT LIST

Charlie
Hiraki

That's just for the moment. Things will evolve greatly as the game speed picks up and as more Alliance-related discussion and voting happens.

Now discuss away.

[ReaperCharlie]

RC, the Alliance idea is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard on this site. We're not Alliancing.

Apparently you haven't heard many stupid ideas then.

1. Did you or did you not read the quotes in my post?
2. Did you or did you not see the outcome of that game?
3. Do you or do you not think I'm town? and why/not?

Listen Umbrage, I don't care what you think

Please, someone other than RC, explain to me how this sentiment is AT ALL protown.

Sólo la atención mafia sobre opiniones de los demás. ¿Por qué la ciudad de cuidado? Tenemos que hacer nuestra propia mente, para que no nos llevó alrededor de la mafia.

Translated: Only the mafia care about others' opinions. Why should town care? We have to make up our own mind, so we are not led around by the mafia.

traducir

Graciazzz.

@Nobody Special: ¿prefieres linchar a) Alguien que no da mucho, pero que ha mecánicamente no hay razón para que la mafia, o b) un jugador útil cuya alineación no tienes ni idea de?

Este artículo ha sido distorsionada por la traducción.

Translated: Do you prefer to lynch a) Someone who does not give much, but it has no mechanical reason for the mafia, or b) a useful player whose alignment does not have any idea?

I would rather lynch someone who is being 1) actively scummy or 2) anti-town (in that order). If no such person exists, I'll vote a lurker.

Well, no duh. Who do you think is being actively scummy, besides me?

@ Nobody Special: Why do you feel RC is anti-town?

His arrogance and attempt to direct the town is not to be trusted. He does the same whether he's town or mafia, and without being able to tell the difference, I can't trust him.

So wait, you're saying that I'm the only one who you can't trust, and I'm the only one who you don't know as to their alignment?

Seriously, though. I'll tone down the 'arrogance' if you'll rationally read things like THIS:

RULES
1.We all vote together. That means we all vote the same person, but

we have to agree amongst ourselves who that person will be.

Once we do that, it forms a blockvote effect that is pretty much unstoppable because

nobody else can "control" our votes through manipulation

, because we already have a standing agreement.

2.

We can vote to invite new people into, or kick people out of the Alliance.

This includes me, even though I'm starting it. I mean, as a non-Alliance member, people still CAN vote with the Alliance if they wish, but obv they don't have to. The Unicorns start in the Alliance, but only because I created it and it's a Unicorn game

They are free to leave if they want.

3. Alliance gets pared down in size as the game does. Should be slightly less than half, if even that large. This ensures the maximum amount of helpfulness, usefulness, and trustability.

4. Remember, the main object of this entire idea of Alliances is to

FORCE SCUMMY PEOPLE TO DO PRO-TOWN THINGS, AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE IF THEY DON'T.

... and then respond to them in a clear and succinct manner, without spouting stuff like "OMG RC IS TRYING TO LEAD THE TOWN ZOMG SCUM!!!1"

1. Do you or do you not think that alliances could be useful if led by pro-town people? Confirm or deny.
2. Do you or do you not understand that scummy people can be kicked out, INCLUDING ME? Confirm or deny.
3. Do you or do you not understand the concept of FORCING SCUMMY PEOPLE TO DO PRO-TOWN THINGS, AND HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE IF THEY DON'T? Confirm or deny.

This is why I have such a hard time believing that your opposition to the idea. I mean, there is such an

unbelievable

net pro-town benefit from creating an Alliance... but ALWAYS. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. there's a staunch resistance from a vocal minority who's like "THIS SPELLS CERTAIN DOOM FOR US ALL!".

It's like religious fanatics saying that Obama is the anti-christ because he wants to switch things up a bit. You are trying to start a witch hunt on somebody who's quite obviously being pro-town, and suggesting something that has been PROVEN TO HAVE A POSITIVE EFFECT FOR TOWN, even when the creator of the original alliance in that game WAS SCUM.

Please answer my questions, NS. And please stop being hard-headed.. and weird.

Love,
ReaperCharlie

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm also not comfortable with you leading the Alliance. Yes, your arrogance just really gets under my skin. It's a personal thing, and I'm trying really hard to see the benefit within the game.

I think the best way I can explain myself is this:

As a side note, in your proposed Alliance list, you've got most of the list coming in via Unicorns. I've not read the UB thread, I don't know a lot about you guys, but please explain how some Group that existed rprior to this game can have a bearing on player's alignments in this game. In other words, you have NO GUARANTEE that all your proposed Alliance members are town. How can you have a Town Alliance with scum in it? It's broken.

Please note that I'm willing to discuss this. I just don't think it's a great idea. And you'll need to do A LOT of convincing to get me to feel otherwise.

Nobody ever said it was a "Town Alliance". I merely said "Alliance".

Again, you're missing the point of the Alliance.

Please take note of the following quotes, again:

The main object of this entire idea of Alliances is to FORCE SCUMMY PEOPLE TO DO PRO-TOWN THINGS, AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE IF THEY DON'T.

the Alliance is only so good as we're all town, and since we have no way of knowing that, there could easily be scum chilling with us.

This has been proven wrong multiple times thus far in this game.

Regardless of the presence of scum in the alliance (though obviously not desirable), the alliance itself is pro-town.

Does this help or hurt?

--

I mean, I am actively trying not to come out and say "Shut up, just do it" or "Hay guyz trust me!", I'm actually legitimately trying to present this as a good course of action. I have realized that the more I explain, the more people are actually legitimately willing to try something that's intelligent. When I just say "shut up, do it", that's a gigantic turn off to them and anyone else who sees it. And this whole Alliance thing is a team effort, so it's important not to cultivate that kind of anti-trust sentimentality. That tears towns APART. What I am trying to do is build us up.

The difference between a town-led alliance and a scum-led alliance is that it becomes pretty obvious, if not right away, then pretty early on, who is to blame. It's easier to spot dissenters among people who are "automatons" than people who are actively different from each other in every way. And /inb4 "omg you just want us all to be automatons!!" -- I'm not saying everyone has to be automatons, it's just an analogy. Here, another quote:

Blockvoting does not negate scumhunting. It facilitates joint scumhunting between remaining known Innocent or probably Innocent members. Such is the nature of an alliance in the first place, to cut down on arguing between people who are confirmed or near-confirmed.

I appreciate you being willing to discuss it. That's all I can expect from anyone, really, but the fact that you said that gives me a townie vibe. You are invited to the Alliance if you so desire. If not, you can feel free to vote with us regardless of your "official membership" or not. It's really an informal thing. There ARE no cons to this idea, only PROs. A lot of them.

I realize how hard it is to trust me after Harry Potter, but hey. I was scum then and I was doing what it took. Now I'm doing what it takes again, just from the other side of the coin.

[ReaperCharlie]

And speaking of immature, RC, if you make one more shit-post about an alliance that clogs up the thread, I am policy lynching you. This game is becoming unreadable. Enough. It is a bad idea in a game that likely has third parties and multiple win conditions. It stinks of a plot to try and distract the town from doing any scumhunting.

100% anti-town post detected.

Question: What kind of townie discourages discussion just because "they don't like it", and then caps it off with a threat to policy lynch someone.
Answer: One who's not a townie.

Unvote; Vote: Umbrage

[ReaperCharlie]

It is a bad idea in a game that likely has third parties and multiple win conditions. It stinks of a plot to try and distract the town from doing any scumhunting.

And as for this part, this is exactly WHY we need an Alliance. So that all of these third parties/multiple win cons will be regulated and

The only person who would be against this would be one of those anti-town win-con holders, or an idiot. I know you're not an idiot, so therefore I deduce you're scum. It was the exact same thing with the last few pages of Werewolf Wisborg Asylum. I knew My Milked Eek wasn't an idiot, and therefore he must be scum.

Answer me this:

1. What's the benefit of quashing discussion about an Alliance?
2. Why are you trying to throw a tantrum and such if you don't get your way?
3. Do you realize that if the majority of the Alliance is pro-town, then they are

forcing scum to vote for other scum?

4. Do you realize that by accepting the "protection" of the Alliance, scum are forced to give up many of their rights to push mislynches?
5. Do you have any questions about an Alliance that you haven't asked yet? Cause I am full of answers.

And I see that I forgot to use shun (again?)... -__-

Shun: Umbrage

[ReaperCharlie]

Hehe.








And abortion is

[ReaperCharlie]

Fine, I will shut up about it until later today or tomorrow.


Umbrage, you're no longer invited, though.


Doombunny. Who do you think is scum or town? And why?

[ReaperCharlie]

No, it's a legit idea. Still very much on the table.

[ReaperCharlie]

Stop using caps. It's annoying. Also:

YOU BETTER FUCKING HOP ON THIS SHIT RIGHT NOW.

No.

[ReaperCharlie]

What part of:

"

I'm fine with the alliance idea

. I see the potential merit in it. Its a new strategy to me, and I'm willing to see how it goes."

equals

"

Rhinox

merely

states he's okay with the Alliance idea

."

???

Seems pretty close to me.

Where is the misrep?

[ReaperCharlie]

Potential Explanation (?): I think Hiraki thinks that my Alliance thing was a gambit to get someone to agree with it, which would somehow mean that they'd be scum... ? But he also probably didn't read my posts, or if he did, he didn't realize they were from an actual game, and that I'm actually 100% serious here. Also, doesn't make sense, etc. Please explain your train of thought here, Hiraki.

[ReaperCharlie]

Hmmm, I see what you mean, but it's rather null imo.

Would you be down for the Alliance, Hiraki?

[ReaperCharlie]

I honestly just see it as sort of a "voting block".

At its core, that's really all it is.

The only difference between voting bloc and an Alliance is that Alliance members don't vote for Alliance members unless they've been kicked out of the Alliance, which is pretty arbitrary to begin with because there is really no set "leader". It's just a slightly more formal (yet still horrifically informal) version of bloc-voting.

Seriously, think of the pros vs the cons though: a) we don't require you to pay dues, b) we keep the mafia from bein in ur gamez killin ur d00dz, and c) we don't send junk mail. <-that last one is a biggie. My union requires a) and c), and they don't even offer b). It's frickin bogus.

Seriously seriously though, you say this:

That being said I'm not entirely opposed to the idea. If you have a large enough group to start then you are guaranteed that any scum IN the group would have to end up doing anti-scum things. UNLESS, the person who is "in charge" of the alliance is misguiding everyone. Which means

There ARE no cons to this idea, only PROs. A lot of them.

Is not really true and the fact that you continue to say that kind of irritates me.

But, you fail to realize that there IS nobody in charge.

My other concern regarding anyone who would be a part of this insanity is that there couldn't be somebody just riding coat tails. I would expect everyone to give equal input, I could see it be easy for scum to jump on this little wagon and just ride along laughing at our potentially bad decisions.

This is pro-town and I approve.

And I only referred to HP mafia again because I wanted NS to know for sure that this was NOT that.

And yes, I'd be fine with there being an Alliance in it without me being "in" it.

[ReaperCharlie]

Stef: It's not that I think RC is necessarily scum, but he's anti-town enough that he's damaging to the town. As a member of the town, I then suffer along as he destroys us. And I know him pretty well throughout the site; he annoys me as much out of games as he does in games. And it's not like I'm single-handedly going to lynch him; one Shun at this point is hardly deadly.

You don't think I'm scum, but you think I'm damaging the town by trying to organize? How is organization of the town EVER damaging to the town? Have you ever played in a Stars Aligned game? Those games would be over RIDICULOUSLY fast without town organization. Because there are so many variables. And I have a feeling this game is likely the same, what with the "Expect the Unexpected" caveat Hayl has in the rules.

And I annoy you a lot out of games too? I'm sorry, I didn't know that. Hit me up in PM if you have any personal beefs and we'll see if we can't work it out. I really am trying to turn over a new leaf (again).

[ReaperCharlie]

And I only referred to HP mafia again because I wanted NS to know for sure that this was NOT that.

Pinky swear?
Is he just supposed to take your word for it?

No, he's not. Not at all.

That's exactly why I am explaining everything and linking to/quoting from a game where it DID work out magically, instead of a game where NS would get terrible impressions from it.

That's why I'm even bothering to explain all this, because I DON'T want anyone to have to take my word for it. See also this parts of post #114:

I mean, I am actively trying not to come out and say "Shut up, just do it" or "Hay guyz trust me!", I'm actually legitimately trying to present this as a good course of action. I have realized that the more I explain, the more people are actually legitimately willing to try something that's intelligent. When I just say "shut up, do it", that's a gigantic turn off to them and anyone else who sees it. And this whole Alliance thing is a team effort, so it's important not to cultivate that kind of anti-trust sentimentality. That tears towns APART. What I am trying to do is build us up.

I'm really trying to point out pros and cons instead of just being like "stfu and trust me on this", which is my normal approach. lol

-----

Definitivamente estoy en contra de esta alianza, a menos que yo estoy en ella. Estoy hablando muy en serio. (no lo soy.)

Puedo tipo de ver cómo se puede utilizar, pero hay la posibilidad de que el juego será totalmente dominado por la alianza y la mafia que no están en alianza puede ocultar más fácil, si en algún momento la mayor parte de la discusión sucede dentro de la alianza. Definitivamente no debe ser dirigido por una persona, incluso si esa persona es mecánicamente confirmó ciudad. Sobre todo uno que es tan seguro de tener razón como ReaperCharlie es.

Que sólo las huelgas "seguir al líder"y que se lleva la mayor parte de la diversión en el juego.

Por otro lado, hablar de esta alianza tiene el tiempo que podría pasar en realidad la captura de la mafia. ReaperCharlie estaba listo para dejar este debate de dos días, pero simplemente sigue apareciendo. Entiendo que es bueno saber lo que la gente piensa de él, pero esto es ridículo. Hiraki y Rhino tenía algo que decir sobre los demás, pero ha conseguido enterrados en discusión la alianza.

@ Hiraki: ¿Por qué estás pidiendo ReaperCharlie saltar en principal sospechoso de tu? Si usted piensa que Rhino es la mafia, ¿por qué no encontrar tus propias razones? Pidiendo ReaperCharlie acaba de tomar el debate lejos de principal sospechoso tu.

Rehuir: Hiraki

Tanstalas en no en el claro, pero él ya está en el centro de atención. No debemos dejar que las cosas quedan enterradas bajo la alianza.

I am definitely against this alliance, unless I am in it. I'm dead serious. (I'm not.)

I can kind of see how it can be used, but there is the possibility that the game will be totally dominated by the alliance and the mafia not in alliance can hide more easily, if at any time most of the discussion going on within the alliance. Definitely should not be run by one person, even if that person is mechanically confirmed town. Especially one who is so sure of being right as ReaperCharlie is.

That just smacks of "follow the leader" and that takes most of the fun out of the game.

On the other hand, during discussion of this alliance is the time you could actually catch the mafia. ReaperCharlie was ready to leave this debate for two days, but just keeps appearing. I understand it is good to know what people think about it, but this is ridiculous. Hiraki and Rhino had something to say about others, but discussion has gotten buried under the alliance.

@ Hiraki: Why are you asking ReaperCharlie jump on your prime suspect? If you think that Rhino is the mafia, why not find your own reasons? Asking ReaperCharlie just takes the debate away from your main suspect.

Shun: Hiraki

Tanstalas is not in the clear, but he is already in the spotlight. We must not let things get buried under the alliance.

Wait. You

are

, ...or

aren't

dead serious?

Yes, it's possible that the game can be dominated by the Alliance. That's the whole idea of having an Alliance. Using brute force apart from townieness/scumminess to break the game, and forcing people to comply with popular opinion (and while more townies are alive than scum, this organized group-think is guaranteed to be LESS rather than MORE influenced by scum). Basically, it upholds the "sheeple" mentality but at the same time cuts out the middleman of the scum trying to manipulate everything in its birthing stages, by carrying thoughts and suspicions directly from the source (people's minds) to fruition (votes and lynches), while eliminating most of the "stew" in the middle (which is when good scum play can change people's hearts on a lynch, and make other people look scummy). Doing this effectively negates a good percentage of good scum play, and makes it much more likely that the town can win.

And Yes, it somewhat takes the fun out of the game, because it makes the game go a lot faster and eliminates a lot more scum a lot faster without nearly as many town casualties. Still though, that's why a lot of people who UNDERSTAND it don't like it. But the people who do like them, like them because it somewhat breaks the game in their favor. Those who are against it WITHOUT understanding it, have either never seen one before, or have seen one executed improperly (i.e. without all of the proper rules/motivations/etc).

The proper execution for an Alliance is comparable to the breaking strategy for the Assassin in the Palace gametype (if you don't know what that is, click the link). It describes both the game type and the breaking strategy. Alliances are merely a different version of that, translated to a regular mafia game vice the Assassin in the Palace version. Hope this helps you to understand it better. It's playing the odds instead of playing the feelings. And the odds are vastly in our favor, if this is anything close to normal (which, as I understand from reading my role PM and the OP, it's not. but still, the same principle applies).

The reason I tried to start an Alliance in this game BEFORE I gained a huge measure of pro-town appeal, was because I wanted people to know that:
a) I wasn't using it as an insurance policy so that I could trick everyone even more than I already had (like the game I'm never supposed to mention again),
b) I wanted it to be clear that I was not trying to lead anything or run anything, I was just proposing the idea, and if people thought it was feasible, then I would help with the logistics of the thing,
c) It was a "take it or leave it" thing. I am going to explain it, but I'm not gonna cram it down anyone's throats if they don't want it. This is what most of you don't seem to get.
and
d) It has worked very well for me in the past, that much is 100% undeniable. there are times when it didn't seem to be working, but those are the times when it worked best. you'll have to trust me on that, because you don't know what I knew and you didn't gain the experience I did. Hindsight is 20/20, as I am fond of saying, and I learned very very much from observing past alliances from "after-the-fact" standpoints.

Anyway, that being said, I am going to drop the Alliance idea at this point. There is too much opposition to it, and not enough people are interested in the idea, or are willing to pseudo-trust people for the "greater good" (/inb4 hot fuzz).

Maybe these work better in large games, I don't know. I've never tried it in a mini before. Maybe it's just too much for a mini game. Anyway, whatever. It took up a few pages of discussion, yeah, but it's not like I've tried to distract anyone from anyone else's scumminess. If anything, it's only inflamed things and solidified people's opinions of each other.

That's another reason why Alliances and Alliance discussion is pro-town, because it tends to polarize people on the issue (those pro-Alliance and those anti-Alliance), and very much is revealed about where people stand on certain issues, and the ways in which they want to scumhunt and/or not scumhunt. lol.

Anyway, seeing that phenomenon much more clearly this game than in any past games I've tried Alliances in, I think I'll begin to use that (alliance discussion, that is) as an RVS replacement in most or all of my future games. It's much better than RVS or RQS. I'll call it ADS (alliance discussion stage) or something, heh.

-----

kryptinen, what did Hiraki and Rhinox have to say about others? I too, am eager not to have things buried under ADS (<--woot, I said it in a sentence).

-----

ANOTHER THING I'D LIKE PEOPLE TO DO IS, WHOEVER POSTS AFTER KRYPTINEN, EACH TIME (if you can remember), PLEASE TRANSLATE HER POSTS ON GOOGLE TRANSLATE (using the link she always provides, thanks kryp), AND POST THEM AS AN ADDENDUM TO YOUR POST. MAKE SURE TO ATTRIBUTE THE QUOTE TO KRYPTINEN, AND MAKE SURE TO

STRIKE OUT

THE SPANISH AND

COLOR IT GRAY

.

THE SOONER AFTER HER POST THAT THIS IS DONE BY SOMEONE ELSE, THE BETTER. THAT WAY WE GET TO HEAR HER POSTS IN THE CONTEXT THAT SHE MEANT THEM, NOT A PAGE OR SO LATER WHEN SOMEONE ACTUALLY QUOTES/RESPONDS TO IT, LIKE I'VE DONE HERE.

I WILL DO MY PART, IF I HAPPEN TO POST AFTER HER. EVERYONE ELSE, PLEASE DO YOURS.

-----

Doombunny. Who do you think is scum or town? And why?

My top four reads (in order) are-

1. Charlie for reasons already stated
2. NS for trying to pull off policy lynches rather than people he finds scummy-possibly to just bring a mislynch without having to take as much blame
3. Zodiark for not contributing much (The only person that we know of that he thinks is scummy is tan but the case is weak and may be artly OMGUS) and trying to use "I'm not on that often" as an excuse
4. You for distracting the town from scumhunting.

Everyone else is null for the most part although some are leaning town for various good posts.

1. I agree on Charlie.
2. I disagree on NS. He seems pro-town and his suspicion of me + Alliances is completely legitimate, especially considering our history.
3. I need to re-read Zodiark, I have basically ignored his posts all game.
4. Read my whole posts, please. This one and the others. I happen to think Alliance Discussion Stage (ADS) is at LEAST twice as good as RVS or RQS in terms of polarizing people in a "moral" argument, and the only thing it lacks is the contrivance and possible pre-planning that scum do in order to make others look scummy during RVS and RQS. The only reason you think Alliance Discussion is DISTRACTING from scumhunting is because you haven't tried to use it to scumhunt before, like I have, and am.

-----

ITT we learn doom is prob-town

Just from that post? What are you seeing that I'm not?

Not to say I don't find him vaguely pro-town (I recall saying something to that effect yesterday, if my memory serves me correctly), but I don't see why anything in that post strikes you as particularly prob-town. Please expound.

-----

@ Hiraki: Why are you asking ReaperCharlie jump in your prime suspect? If you think that Rhino is the mafia, why not find your own reasons? ReaperCharlie asking just take the debate away from your main suspect.

On the contrary, I've used Reaper's ideas and the reactions of others as my own scum-detecting weapon.

Even if it isn't a gambit, it's still helpful in the sense that it will help me and others find scum in the future.

THIS.

-----

My vote sticks with tanstalas. He's done nothing pro-town thus far. He makes a big stink of OMG YOUR SCUM then drops the case entirely.

And yet you still fail to answer my questions.

You are:
a) antagonistic.
b) tunneling.
c) dodging questions.
d) all of the above.

Confirm or deny.

-----

@ Rhinox #163: I still think it's null.

I have tried scumhunting before based on the nuances of people's word choices (i.e. the addition or subtraction of a modifier such as "merely"), and believe me. It's really, REALLY hard to get anyone to believe a case like that.

I am sensing genuine townie rage from you, which is why I'm taking the time to explain this. But I also think you're wasting your time focusing on that issue.

(F***, why am I talking like an IC. I've never even BEEN an IC before.)

That said, the issue of "HAY YOU'RE SCUM FOR FALLING FOR THE ALLIANCE GAMBIT" is worth looking into as it's far more dubious/interesting than MerelyGate. I was very on that, and still am. It sounded more like someone (whether town or scum) who wasn't paying any attention whatsoever to context, rather than someone who was deliberately gambiting or counter-gambiting (or counter-counter-gambiting, etc.)

-----

@ Charlie: No. Don't ever compare me to Fate again. Please and thank you.

I freakin' hate when people compare me to Fate. We are nothing alike.

-----

Oh yes. There are tons of things I can pick on it, but I'd rather stay mum about it until more people post. Be patient, good things come unto those who wait.

This was in reference to RC at #65, yet I don't see you making ANY reference to it in your most recent post. That was a large part of my vote on you. And no, I don't see enough content in your post to make me change my mind. You didn't make any stands on any of the topics that have been discussed in the last 5 pages, not even a wishy-washy one.
AND after saying you had all kinds of things to pick on about RCs post you still base your vote on GUT?

THIIIIIIS. LOL

-----

shun count

yes please.

-----

Also, if he was town who thought it was a gambit, then speaking out against the idea actually undermines the effectiveness of the gambit. This also makes it seem like Hiraki was just looking for town points in his response.

Speaking out against it was the point of RC's "gambit". If you propose something that is Anti-Town and people agree with it, then the people that agree with it have been caught by your gambit. hurr durr

Except for the fact that I proved extensively how pro-town it was.

See also:

Open 298: Follow the Cop...or Not

, where Andrius proposed a hypoclaiming idea which meant that whoever was Cop or Tracker would claim their results in-thread, but that everyone else would also claim results whether they were Cop or Tracker or not. This meant that when the Cop or Tracker flipped, that we could go back and see their results. People discussed this strategy for a couple days (not Days, just days) and Andrius was lurky and non-committal throughout the entire process. Then he came back with an ill-conceived wall which was mostly fluff, and after being called out on it, we all lynched him for it. He flipped town. I was also town in that game, and I was arguably the one who caused his lynch.

This discussion on his new idea, however, coupled with other things that happened during discussion, such as scum slips, buddying, distancing, and people pretending not to understand things, helped the rest of the town lynch scum three days running. Bam, bam, bam. It was magical. I am only sorry that I wasn't there to tell them how good of a job they did. It was an epic win.

-----


In conclusion, I am gonna wrap up this post with my reads.

NOT FOR LYNCHIN'/SAVE FOR LYLO

-Stefunny
-Nobody Special
-Doombunny9

COOL, BUT AS COOL AS THE ABOVE

-Rhinox
-tanstalas
-kryptinen

NULL; NEED TO CONTRIBUTE MORE

-Pulindar
-Zodiark13
-Hiraki

FOR LYNCHIN'/VIGGIN

(if we have one)

-Charlie
-Umbrage

(either of those last two can die today, I have no huge preference either way)

[ReaperCharlie]

Did you read the rest of my post, or did you just skim over the parts that pertained to you/where you saw your name?

That's something scum do a lot. Consider yourself put on the "For Lynchin'/Viggin" list, albeit below Charlie and Umbrage.

[ReaperCharlie]

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

Umbrage is a jester.

Don't lynch him.

[ReaperCharlie]

LOLjester.

/facepalm, Hayl. /facepalm.

[ReaperCharlie]

@ TANSHITLAS: YOU NOT ANSWERING QUESTIONS = YOU NOT PRESSURING ZOD = YOU NOT SCUMHUNTING. SEE IT NOW?

I ALSO NOTICE YOU CAN'T SHOW ME ANY QUESTIONS I DID NOT ANSWER. LIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIAR.

CALL ME CHILDISH, BUT AT LEAST I'M NOT A LIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIAR.

JESTER-HUNTING IS NOT SCUM-HUNTING NICE TRY RC

Yeah. He is a jester.

Under no circumstances will I support an Umbrage lynch today, and I recommend that the scum kill him off tonight and do us all a favor.

Post #182 gave it away. Nobody gets that carried away. Also, he is not acting like I've ever seen him act before.

Heh.

[ReaperCharlie]

@Hayl: Jester, or no jester?

I'ma 'bout ta

Shun: Game

and replace out if you don't confirm or deny. I'm serious.

[ReaperCharlie]

Again:

@ TANSHITLAS: YOU NOT ANSWERING QUESTIONS = YOU NOT PRESSURING ZOD = YOU NOT SCUMHUNTING. SEE IT NOW?

I ALSO NOTICE YOU CAN'T SHOW ME ANY QUESTIONS I DID NOT ANSWER. LIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIAR.

CALL ME CHILDISH, BUT AT LEAST I'M NOT A LIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIAR.

loljester

JESTER-HUNTING IS NOT SCUM-HUNTING NICE TRY RC

LOLjester

[ReaperCharlie]

Well, look:

If Hayl doesn't modkill or force-replace him, we can assume he is a jester.
That "expect the unexpected" thing is exactly what makes me think this.
If he's not a jester, then he's town, because no scum would act like that.
Either way, we never lynch him, and if he's replaced, so much the better.

Win-win.

[ReaperCharlie]

What are you, her boyfriend?

[ReaperCharlie]

RC's really the worst offender. Some people are just verbose, but half of his posts are wasted space, and I've never seen him post like that. It's usually straight to the point. A lot of posts, but short ones.

Apparently you've never played Mafia with me before.

I should be back tomorrow some time.

[ReaperCharlie]

Also, RC, your new avatar makes me irrationally angry. Don't know why.

Walking to Metropolis
As fast as I can

You can't stop me
I'm the G-D SUPERMAN

And when I get there
thru fog, wind and rain

You bet your sorry butt
that I'll be saving Lois Lane

Don't ever try to stop me
Cause my patience is thin

But I know that I must face
that baldy Luthor again

You know I only wrote this
out of pure and simple spite

But I better watch out:
You might have Kryptonite

So I guess I'll go back home
to my adoring fans

Why do they love me?
cuz I'm the G-D SUPERMAN

~ fin

[ReaperCharlie]

Not gonna be able to post until later today.

[ReaperCharlie]

Me?

No, Google Translator.

With Rape and Violacion.

He said that "I'd rather stay mum about it until more people post." Not "I'm busy", not "I can't do this right now", just putting it off while waiting for others to post. Can you see why a townie would do this because I sure can't, even more so since he didn't do it in his latest post either.

You have heard of this cool thing about lying?

Plus what's so bad about it?

This is the best defense ever! I am now 100% convinced you are town!

I'm really not striving to make one person think I'm town. Including for such pitiful reasons.

I don't remember saying any of that...

[ReaperCharlie]

I find it hilarious that the two wagons that I started are the biggest.

And even moreso that those two people are the only two voting me.

y halo thar OMGUS

[ReaperCharlie]

You don't think 5~ pages is enough for a gambit to play out? Especially when everyone comments on it?

Not only that, you just said I was scum for disagreeing with the gambit idea, even though it was pro-town. My points have finely defined that the alliance idea was scummy. Did you just choose to ignore them?

Actually, it was more like

*RC presents gambit idea*
Hiraki: OH look RC must be gambit he's so stupid to think only scum would go for the heeehehehehee
Hiraki: I know, I'll totally get town points if I say Alliances suck.
Hiraki: Alliances suck!
Rhinox: Sure I'll do the alliance
Hiraki: GOTCHA SCUM kekekeke! Go Go Gambit Reaper!
RC: not a gambit
Rhinox: why were you undermining the alliance idea if you thought it was a gambit?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*breathes*

HAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA--*chokes*

*coughing*

Lol. That made my morning. Catching up now.

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm moving on from tans, this back and forth is doing nothing but distract me from everyone else, and most of his points in his last post against me are either noise, pointless, or, in one question, rolefishing.

Unshun

Not too sure where to go from here though. A good point to start on though;

FoS(Finger of Shunning?): ReaperCharlie

His last nine posts have been completely pointless. And the last time I saw someone doing as what he did in his 236, the person doing it was scum.

Check my posts across all my games. I'm busy as heck and I haven't had time to catch up yet. It's also called active lurking and prod-dodging -- Hey, I'm not gonna lie. Anyway, should be caught up by EoD today.

Lmao at Finger of Shunning. Earlier in the game I almost used Horn of Suspicion (HoS), lol

One thing I am gonna say though, is that in the middle of the day, when things are in full swing, if the best thing you have to do is pick on a lurker, that means a) you're scum, or b) you haven't read the thread. So if you're not scum Zod, go back and read the freakin thread. You are one of the guys who's off my radar at the moment, because I don't remember reading any posts by you, or having anything stick out to me. For me, that makes me suspicious of experienced scum knowing how to slide by w/o attention on them (at least until LYLO or just before).

Anyway, I don't have time atm, I'm late to something. Back later.

[ReaperCharlie]

*looks at Zod*

*posts elsewhere on site*

*makes a contentless post here*

*keeps looking at Zod*

*waves*

[ReaperCharlie]

I was obv just trying to get under Zod's skin... shhh, you're ruining it!

[ReaperCharlie]

Ok, starting from where I first called Umbrage out as being a jester (which I still believe... which Haylen has refused to answer), here are my thoughts:

Beginning of #194: Pulindar apologizes. I don't like when people apologize. Townies have no reason to apologize, I usually just see them get angry when people call them out on stuff for stupid reasons. Scum are more likely to try NOT to be called out on stuff by pre-emptively apologizing. Especially if it's for something little.

Something about #194 I don't like. he just apologized again. Not really feeling the scumhunting in this post, it's more of a "look here's a wall, now everybody write me off as town, k?" kind of feeling. I admit I am overly suspicious of this kind of thing given the outcome of POWERFUL WIZARD MAFIA (where I wrote a wallposter off as town and though I nailed 2/3 of the other scum in record time, I missed him, and mislynched like 3 other guys trying to find the last scum). It was embarrassing.

Thoughts1. These seem to always form, though usually they are even more informal than the suggested idea
2. They generally tend to blind a few players, but do either force scum to capitulate to town demands or to give themselves away
3. They seem to only really work when there is only one scum group or at least no third party. I don't believe this is the case.
4. Because I know Cathryn, I feel that there are multiple groups and odd win conditions. Simple scum versus town doesn't make sense to me. Thus, I am against the alliance.

Now this part has some merit. I take back my suspicion for now.

5. I reserve the right to change my mind later after night occurs.

Dam# it, suspicion just came back.

1. You said the numbers would decrease, how?
2. I assume that the alliance will be discussing their choices for the day in general chat?
3. You said that the alliance should be less than half, what is the reason for that?
4. The way I understand it, the leader merely is the most vocal in which direction s/he thinks the group should go, the position seems informal?

Numbers decrease as in, we kick the scummiest people out as the days drag on. Since we can't lynch people in the alliance, we kick them out of the alliance so that our voting pool stays populated AND so that scummy people are being considered for lynch, regardless of previous alliance "membership". This also helps the alliance from tunnelling and losing to scum burrowed deep within the alliance.

Yes, all Alliance stuff happens right here, in plain view of everyone... but WHY ARE YOU ASKING THIS?! ITS AGAINST THE RULES TO TALK ANYWHERE ELSE.

The alliance should be less than half so that the numbers in our voting pool stays strong. plus, we don't ever want the alliance to become a majority. that way, it allows scum to quickhammer people left and right with 100% impunity ("oh wait, the alliance told me to, kekekeke").

Yes, the Alliance "Leader" is no more of an alliance member than anyone else.

Also, he is not acting like I've ever seen him act before.

Dude, I'm unreadable. I never stick with a single style. Anyway, what do you think of tans?

Unreadable. HAH.

Some of it is in part due to his desire to limit discussion I am sure, but most is purely his unfriendly style

That's a laugh. I've done more to spark REAL discussion than anyone.

Looking for town cred for that?

I still think you're a jester.

It's called groupthink. Google it. It fucking KILLS these games. Scum hides in the alliance and everybody's too chicken shit to try and root them out. I pointed it out then, and I'm pointing it out now. I've already lost a game because of idiot town pulling this shit.

You haven't read about how the alliance works then. Or at least, MY flavor of alliance. We root out our own scum. We just wait to do it until all of the non-alliance scum are gone first. Well, at least most of them.

So, while the rest of you were busy playing alliance bullshit, I've been out finding scum. And I found one. His name is tanstalas. You can either kill him and win or undergo profound humiliation when I gloat profusely, JUST like in Execution.

Why is tanstalas scum?

Short punchy list. No links, no caps. Tell me why I should lynch him. If it's convincing enough, he may get my vote. I am sick of this argument between you two, and I sure as heck am not going to lynch someone I think is a jester, on Day 1.

Aaaand again you ignore/dodge Umbrage. Gratz on not having more votes on you by now. There is a REASON you have more votes than anyone else, and that is because you have been the most scummy.

If you are town, I would be at a loss to know who is scum. You are not a good information lynch. Though, if you are scum, Zod is your buddy most likely

Would you lynch Umbrage even with my heavy suspicions that he is a Jester?

I only got to 196. curses.

LOL I have a long ways to go.

[ReaperCharlie]

Honestly the slight possibility that there is a jester in the game is the reason I have not switched my vote to Umbrage. I know it's a very very slight possibility, but I'd rather wait a day and see what happens than risk it. I have not really played many games that were not open or semi open so I'm not sure how often a jester occurs on site.

Pretty seldom, but off ALL games on site, THIS is the one I'd expect to have one.

FFFFUUUU haylen!

[ReaperCharlie]

*of

[ReaperCharlie]

Gonna be V/LA this weekend, y'all.

[ReaperCharlie]

Do YOU think I'm scum, Doombunny?

Actually, who DO you think is scum?

The last Vote/Shun you placed was a week ago, and it was a "pressure vote".

[ReaperCharlie]

Shun: Doombunny

[ReaperCharlie]

Do YOU think I'm scum, Doombunny?

I'm null leaning scum on you right now. when you do post content its good and helps out town but lately you just seem to be creating noise and posting worthless crap rather than anything worthwhile.

Do you actually think the "worthless crap" I post doesn't have a purpose? The vast majority of it is reaction testing.

You are giving me reactions right now, which I am in turn gauging. In other words, not so worthless.

Actually, who DO you think is scum?

I've posted a list a bit back. For the most part its the same although my Zod and Charlie reads are getting stronger.

I haven't read much of the thread for the past few days due to my busy life. Only been skimming the most recent posts, and reacting to them. It's the way I scumhunt best sometimes.

The last Vote/Shun you placed was a week ago, and it was a "pressure vote".

Didn't I already talk about this? It was a pressure/real vote and recently my read on Charlie has gotten stronger.

I'd like you to tell me in about 10-15 words why you think Charlie is scum, and should be lynched.

Do the same for Zod, if you like.

Shun: Doombunny

And are you just shunning me for the hell of it or do you actually have a case?

Why? Nervous?

[ReaperCharlie]

Picking up where I left off:

Almost the entirety of Pulindar's #197 is IIoA. He talks a lot but there is not a lot there. Also, all of the Prologue/Epilogue stuff smacks of scummy posturing vice actual "hey I need to organize this for myself"ness. If that makes sense.

Reading through #200 makes me agree with Umbrage >.< ... I hate walls. Not writing them (I love that), I just hate reading them and trying to comprehend them. ... I mean, they have their place and all, but they definitely make caring about the game a little harder for everyone short of Superman. Which, fortunately, I am.

tans' #201 makes me wonder whether somebody who's scum would so vigorously campaign for a modkill. Even with Umbrage being as distasteful as he is, I just don't see it, unless it's some kind of gambit where Umbrage and tans are scum together, and the mod knows it, and won't kill either of them because obviously she knows that they're buddies. Or something. But other than that, I'm having trouble reading tans as scum. Umbrage, possibly to probably. But of a different kind.

@ Doombunny #202:

Why would you say it's "too early" for an alliance? From my experience, some alliances become ripe early, some later on. But I do agree with Pulindar that multi-scum in a mini-game would make for a very confusing alliance experience indeed. I didn't think of this too thoroughly before, and I'm having second thoughts about it. Still though, why is it "too early"? You didn't mention any reasons.

#202 still: Did Umbrage ever answer the question about why he's bulldogging tanstalas so hard for being scum, but isn't actually voting him? If not, then why is that, Umbrage?

#209: LOL. Pulindar is now the General of Peace?!?! Giving us all time-outs 'n sh!t? LOL

ReaperCharlie: Try playing the game. I don't confirm roles in any way. If you can't handle me not telling people roles that may or may not be in the game, then by all means; Shun the game and go back to Central Island where you'll find a heap of games where each and every role is (semi-)confirmed. People only get modkilled in my games for cheating and posting screenies of quicktopics.

~ Hayl

I am playing the game. So basically you're saying that "I cannot confirm or deny anything that may or may not be asked of me at this or any other time, whether asked with accompanying venomous threats or with genuine curiosity", right? Which is usually what I say when asked about roles. But NOT ABOUT JESTERS. i.e. If there was NOT a jester in one of my setups, I would make it perfectly clear. Getting this lame "I cannot confirm or deny" type of answer only kind of confirms it for me. Sorry, Umbrage. I will do my utmost to make sure you do not get lynched this game.

If it's a gambit, it's a dam# good one. I'm saving your @$$ for lylo or slightly before.

#212 by Stefunny feels town, but my suspicions just might be being deflected by her unicorn avatar... >.<

Hiraki's #213 starts out not-good and gets better as he goes down. In the beginning it feels like IIoA but after a while he starts asking genuine questions and stuff.

I am disappointed/suspicious that all he had to say to my vast posts was "Oh and now a RC Wall. Good." <-- that makes me

No Hiraki, I am not only focusing on Charlie, as should be plenty obvious.

If this is what I think it is, the Alliance exists in every game, just isn't stated. Per se, there will usually be an agreement between 2-3 players in a game that has more than or equal to 13 players. This is the only time it's been directly been stated.

That being said, a definite alliance between players is a no-no. There should be an indirect alliance rather than the direct alliance that RC is proposing. To add on, there shouldn't be a definite group of people in the alliance because that's biasing. No one likes that.

That's the end of my views on it.

I am disappointed in you... a definite alliance between players between players, THAT FINDS AND KILL SCUM, is a no-no?

If it's not a one-trick pony, then how is that bad for the town? AT ALL?

More later maybe. I'm up to mid-#213.

[ReaperCharlie]

It wouldn't if it were one of MY games... *spongebob giggle*

[ReaperCharlie]

Why would you say it's "too early" for an alliance? From my experience, some alliances become ripe early, some later on. But I do agree with Pulindar that multi-scum in a mini-game would make for a very confusing alliance experience indeed. I didn't think of this too thoroughly before, and I'm having second thoughts about it. Still though, why is it "too early"? You didn't mention any reasons.

I have been in a game with something similar to an alliance (Not exactly but pretty close), and while it worked out well enough up until endgame, the alliance needed clearly defined pro-town players and anti-town players which I don't feel we really have much of a line separating them yet.

Do you or do you not understand the importance of the Alliance being a viable solution WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS SCUM PENETRATION/INFILTRATION? It will still work either way.

If you don't understand how it can/why it does work even with scum infiltration, just say so, and I'll explain it. AGAIN.

#202 still: Did Umbrage ever answer the question about why he's bulldogging tanstalas so hard for being scum, but isn't actually voting him?

I skimmed through the game and haven't seen anything so I doubt it. I may have just missed it though.

Yo Umbrage: Why?

Orrr. You can just look at the list of previous games I have run on my wiki and find them on MS. Sorry, as a mod, I like to stay out of the game as much as possible because Farside has threatened to 'have words' with me before now for accidentally letting info slip

This means no (I've checked).

Alright.

[ReaperCharlie]

Back!(ish)

[ReaperCharlie]

Back!(ish)

Really? Only 3 posts since yesterday?

Haylen, can you begin to prodify people?

[ReaperCharlie]

I am sick of people saying the word null. Also, I am so disinterested in this game.

Disappointing. =\

[ReaperCharlie]

@ TANSHITLAS: YOU NOT ANSWERING QUESTIONS = YOU NOT PRESSURING ZOD = YOU NOT SCUMHUNTING. SEE IT NOW?

I ALSO NOTICE YOU CAN'T SHOW ME ANY QUESTIONS I DID NOT ANSWER. LIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIAR.

CALL ME CHILDISH, BUT AT LEAST I'M NOT A LIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIAR.

[ReaperCharlie]

Of course NOW he's come off his act, because he knows we're on to him, and he's not gonna get lynched that way. If he's not killed during the night, he'll try to weasel it some other way (i.e. surviving until LYLO and then acting scummy, for instance). You will notice that his play style has greatly changed since I called him a jester. Greatly, and abruptly. I think that's proof enough.

I still think scum should NK him and do us all a favor. That's what I'd do, anyway.

And if he's scum pretending to be a jester to try to avoid being lynched, well, it's not the first time. That's why if we have a vig, they should unequivocally be going for Umbrage tonight. They'll hit either Jester, Mafia Scum, other 3rd-party, or useless townie.

[ReaperCharlie]

THIS IS HOW I PLAY, AND IT'S A HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN YOU DO.

YOU'VE DONE NOTHING OF IMPORTANCE THIS GAME.

YOU POST A LOT, BUT YOU DON'T SAY ANYTHING.

THAT IS WHY YOU ARE MY #1 OVER TANS, SCUMMY AS HE IS.

No, you.

ALSO THIS:

They'll hit either Jester, Mafia Scum, other 3rd-party, or

useless townie

.

Now really.

Do you really think there are VTs in this game?

I doubt it.

I don't think anyone thinks that.

Nice try though. Tricking the vig into miskilling, that's a good... attempt, scum. Sadly it never had any chance of working. Vigs kill lurkers, aka Rhinox.

Well, first of all, townie != vanilla; 'townie' is easier to say than "miscellaneous town-aligned personnel, either possessing or lacking special abilities."

Secondly though, why don't you think there would be any VTs in the game? It's entirely possible; the vast majority of games on the site have some form of VT in them (whatever they may be called).

[ReaperCharlie]

Just saw this:

I am sick of people saying the word null. Also, I am so disinterested in this game.

Disappointing. =\

Null.

FFFUUUU

[ReaperCharlie]

Secondly though, why don't you think there would be any VTs in the game? It's entirely possible; the vast majority of games on the site have some form of VT in them (whatever they may be called).

Damn, beat me to it. I as well want to know why you assume we have no VT's

*high fives tanstalas*

</buddying>

[ReaperCharlie]

...

[ReaperCharlie]

Deadline:

Thursday 19th May 9pm GMT

Votes to lynch:

7/12

[ReaperCharlie]

That's more or less still two days from now.

[ReaperCharlie]

^ If that is real, then w00t.




Why not Charlie, tanstalas? And do you not think Umbrage could be a jester, and if so, why do you still support his lynch?

[ReaperCharlie]

Or maybe I'm just lazy, skimming scum. In which case the game would definitely be better off without me.

ORRRR, it's because I only read the last few posts before posting each time, lol.

But I notice you still didn't answer my question about Charlie. What do you think of Charlie's play so far?

[ReaperCharlie]

w0000oooo, content from Zodiark.

Time to take a stance.

Well, duh.

Shun: tanstalas

Wait, and THIS is the direction you lean? OMGUS?

Now my reads, in case anyone still wants them.

Of course we want them, we've only been asking ALL GAME.

Doom/Nacho: Was fairly townish till Nacho replaced in, since then the slot has steadily been slipping towards scum.

I was thinking exactly the opposite. Doom was scummy, but Nacho feels more townie.

NS: Epic lurker. Slightly scum, but more activity will fix that.

hint hint

Slight buddying. Major hypocrisy.

Hiraki: 99% chance of being town. Shan't say more there.

Why not? If you're gonna be shunned into oblivion, this IS NOT THE TIME TO BE HIDING STUFF.

RC: Mostly noise since the alliance thing. Heavily leaning scum.

I disagree, obviously.

Pulindar: Makes good posts, 80% chance of

rain

being town.

Good posts do not a townie make.

umbrage: Not sure what to think here.

If you are scum, Umbrage is probably your buddy.

kryptinen: Not sure if I have a town read or a pity read.

Again, this is not a read. Another likely candidate for buddy.

Charlie, Rhinox, Stefunny: Hasn't stood out either way. Null.

Null? or SUSPICIOUS?

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE YOU SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON, NOT PEOPLE LIKE TANSTALAS.

OH MY HOLY @&#@NUTS, YOU ARE BEING DUMB.

*deep breath*

Ok. Zodiark. If you're town, please explain why.

If you're scum, please tell us who your buddies are.

On the double.

[ReaperCharlie]

If I'm not mistaken, this is an updated shun count.

Shun Count

:
Charlie:

Stefunny

Umbrage:

Nobody Special

Reapercharlie:

Charlie

Zodiark:

Pulindar, Tans, Nachomamma8, Kryptinen

Rhinox:

Hiraki

Nachomamma8:

ReaperCharlie

Hiraki:

Umbrage

tanstalas:

Zodiark

Not being a shunning bastard: Rhinox

Deadline:

Thursday 19th May 9pm GMT

Votes to lynch:

7/12

Prods:

Notes:

Thoughts:

a) Rhinox needs to get in here.
b) heck, HAYLEN needs to get in here.
c) the people in red are doing it WRONG. the people in green are doing it RIGHT.
d) I realize I'm in the group that's doing it WRONG, BUT even though I think a mislynch is (usually) better than a no-lynch in terms of discussion (hey, we still have NK analysis? ), I am not feeling good at the Zodiark wagon. Specifically tanstalas.

Why was tanstalas so adamant about lynching Umbrage, up to and including disagreeing with my jester read on him, only to vote SOMEBODY ELSE (Zodiark) at the deadline? Changing off your top scum read onto a lurker is less than helpful.

Also, there is the (admittedly obfuscatory) scum tell that the first person on a wagon is likely town, and the second person on a wagon (or the second-last, L-1) is likely scum. Look where tanstalas is.

-----

And re: Umbrage. Why was he so eager to lynch tanstalas all day?

My hypothesis is that they were trying to create a faux 1:1 situation where one of them "had" to be scum, and both opened up the patented Multi-Directional OMGUStunnel™ on each other full blast, and started shouting through it, making sure to let it leak all over the thread. This is also known as EPIC BUSSING. There are a lot of great posts in that topic, and may I specifically point you to my post, where I cite an example of my scumbuddy and I (in Harry Potter, no less. here we are mentioning that game yet AGAIN) bussed to victory on Day 1.

But now all of a sudden due to this post , he switches his vote to Hiraki for an arguably stupid reason (but hey, that's no different than most of the other things he's done in the game).

so i posit that:

1. umbrage and tanstalas (and unknown third buddy?) epic bus each other all day, to clog up the topic and create a 1:1 where one is town and one is scum. which is a fallacy, but. yeah.
2. they switch to other people at the end of the day (tanstalas to someone he'd claimed prior suspicion on, umbrage to someone random for something random). WTF??!!! makesnosense.
3. this way, they get the mislynch on day 1, and possibly annoy people enough so that they start ignoring them as scum possibilities. i know it's worked on me somewhat. i didn't read the entirety of their back-and-forth.
4. also (BONUS!) if one of them ever flips scum, this makes the other one look a lot more townie, and gives them rights to be able to say "hey, I was right about tans/Umbrage" and then skate under the radar even more.

soooo yeah.

Shun: tanstalas

(still won't shun umbrage on the off chance that i AM wrong, and he's a jester)

Let's make this happen, people.


p-edit: yes kryptinen, i admit to not having meticulously read the whole game. it's annoying, talky, and full of walls (admittedly, i have contributed to that... but there it is)

p-edit again: hi, haylen. here i think i posted a votecount for you. do you think you could be a little more generous with those? not knowing where the votes are is PRETTY ANNOYING. thanks! <3

[ReaperCharlie]

So we're all very clear Hayl, can you post a countdown with the 0.00

0.00

0.00

0.00

[ReaperCharlie]

RC: Please explain this post, where you first say that Zod-votes are "right" and then you don't vote Zod.

Hurry, it's almost deadline. I want to make sure I can get a wagon on you if need be.

I was not making a statement as to Zodiark's lynch viability.

To be clear, this is the post you're referring to:

Shun Count

:
Charlie:

Stefunny

Umbrage:

Nobody Special

Reapercharlie:

Charlie

Zodiark:

Pulindar, Tans, Nachomamma8, Kryptinen

Rhinox:

Hiraki

Nachomamma8:

ReaperCharlie

Hiraki:

Umbrage

tanstalas:

Zodiark

Not being a shunning bastard:

Rhinox

The people in red are doing it WRONG. the people in green are doing it RIGHT.

Green people are wagoning. Red people are pushing one-man wagons at deadline.
Obviously, one of these is stupid/anti-town/whatever.

Guess which one is bad.

You're right though, I didn't make it very clear...

So again:

If you're the only guy voting for someone, and deadline is approaching, you're doing it wrong.

[ReaperCharlie]

PURE SPECULATION INCOMING:

Home for a quick lunch, but I just had a thought. What roles would be lovers in this mafia? I know it's not for sure, but I'm thinking if Hiraki and Zod are lovers chances are they may be the blue and pink unicorn.
FOR GOD'S SAKE THEY STEAL ORGANS!
I think those would be scum roles.

I have to go back to work now, but it was a random thought I had while working...

You are still on a one-(wo)man wagon.

Rectify.

[ReaperCharlie]

I would love to lynch umbrage. His VT speculation seems like he's trying to out PR's by getting people to claim VT. Then I remembered everyone thinks he's a Jester. eh, maybe.

Mod, if a hypothetical Jester were lynched and achieved their wincon in one of your games, would it end the game? (if you can answer of course, I think this is one you

should

can answer)

If a Jester lynch doesn't end the game, then I don't really care if a Jester achieves a wincon as long as I can still achieve mine.

1. I don't think "everyone" thinks he's a jester. I wish you would read the game. IIRC, I am the only one who suggested/believes that idea.
2. Even if it doesn't end the game when we lynch a jester, it's still bad play to lynch a jester (from a town standpoint), because:
3. It's not about NOT LOSING the game for us, it's about WINNING the game for us. Lynching a jester means leaving scum alive. Leaving scum alive means more townies dead. A jester can do nothing. They can even help scumhunt, and THEY HAD BETTER, if they don't want to be NK'd and fail to achieve THEIR OWN wincon.

Your views on jesters are flawed. Your vote on tanstalas is sketchy at best (even though I do think tanstalas should be lynched). You need to read the game. You need to comment on things other than what sticks out most when skimming the game. The game's under 20 pages long. It's not that big a deal.

Rectify.

[ReaperCharlie]

tans > RC? OK then.

Shun: tans:

face.

palm.

[ReaperCharlie]

tans > RC? OK then.

Shun: tans:

face.

palm.

(But I still like the vote because it's useful).

[ReaperCharlie]

But wait...

Why (after pushing for tanstalas all day

(yes, those are all separate links)

, then switching to Hiraki for a mediocre-at-best reason), did you vote ME when trying to find "a person we can agree on?" Especially when things you said before

(again, those are separate links)

seemed to show that you either agreed with me, or at least believed somewhat in my townie-ness?

It simply makes no sense.

The only thing (the

ONLY

thing) that caused you to flip your read on me was the Alliance talk.

I'm beginning to think the jester thing less and less. You are probably scum with tanstalas. It all fits.

[ReaperCharlie]

A jester walks into a

bar

LyLo and self-votes... oops.

An anti-town role is an anti-town role.

Also, I think you sort of have the same view as me. I'm not voting umbrage right now because its now A) the day before lylo, and B) a jester lynch is not a scum lynch. So no, my view on jesters is not flawed. If the game doesn't end with a jester lynch, than I'm fine with lynching umbrage because even though he may be possible-jester, he's also possible scum. You seem to be missing where I said I thought umbrage was scummy, not that I would be ok with an umbrage jester-only lynch.

Whether or not your actual views on jesters are flawed, the way you wrote it in your last post was flawed. I don't think I've ever seen a scum-jester, btw. Either he's a jester or he's scum, cause he sure as @$%# ain't no townie.

...

And

how do you know

it's the day before lylo?!!!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

?!?!?!??!?!???!?!??!?!??!!!?!!

?!?!?!?!??!?!!

... etc.

Also, I laugh at you hypocritally telling me to read the game better when you yourself admitted in thread that you only read the last few posts before posting. Oh, I bet you thought I didn't read that part

Quiet, you. ... At least I have been following the game.

You should too; is my point.

[ReaperCharlie]

@Nacho: Hmmm... Yousa point is.... well say.

Still though. I will only vote for Zod if it comes down to the wire, as I have a strange feeling he is just scummy, scummy town.
Plus I think it's tans PLUS Umbrage BUT NOT Zodiark. I find it very unlikely that three scum would ALL just cross-bus on Day 1.

Why are you so sure the doctor will protect you, Nacho? Are you just trying to WIFOM scum away from killing you? Not to mention, if you're scum, you've just given yourself the perfect excuse for "why it wasn't YOU that died last night", if anybody asks. Being of course: "ohhh because they thought the doc would be protecting me, duh". #424 is bad all around. ZING or no.

I still don't think Zodiark is scum.

And to boot, I think NS's "I've seen enough, Shun Zod" post warrants severe suspicion. That reeks of opportunism at the end of the day, while still having the excuse of "ohhh but you guys, there was a deadline. i'm sorry i thought thats what town wanted". Ummm. How about NO.

[ReaperCharlie]

p-ebwodp (lol): <3 to Umbrage for shunning tans.

TANS IS BETTER TO LYNCH THAN ZODIARK.

SEE THE LIGHT.

[ReaperCharlie]

Hmmm...
Well, I think that RC's town because of him pushing the alliance thing far past what would be beneficial for scum, and because of the whole jester point.
But I just reread him and he's an okay choice for buddy to Zod due to the whole not mentioning him thing, and due to leaving his vote on someone who he believed was a Jester for quite a while.

Yeah except if we were buddies the smart thing to do would have been to bus him. A long time ago.

His vote was already on me from before. Pay more attention to the game RC, you are making it quite clear that you are skimming scum.

Especially since you already commented on his earlier vote.

So just because I'm skimming, that makes me scum? Ha. Your OMGUS is showing.

If you don't switch to Zod like you said before deadline that will cement my opinion that you are scum.

Hurry up RC and buss Zod, who is most likely your partner this game

Same thing I said to Nacho. If we were scumbuddies, I would have bussed him long ago. If I was scum, I'd have voted him long ago too. I could have parroted some stupid reason about why he was scum and then shunned him FTW.

But no. I think he's town. And I will stand by that opinion.

[ReaperCharlie]

As of #453, a lynch was reached, if and only if Haylen counts Rhinox's vote, which was said as "vote: tans" instead of "shun: tans".

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

Charlie: Stefunny
Umbrage: Nobody Special
Reapercharlie: Charlie
Zodiark: Pulindar, Nachomamma, Kryptinen, , Nobody Special
Rhinox: Hiraki
Hiraki:
Tans: Zodiark, Reapercharlie, Rhinox*, Umbrage, Stefunny, Charlie,

tanstalas

Not being a shunning bastard: nobody

Deadline:

Thursday 19th May 9pm BST (

(expired on 2011-05-19 16:00:00)

)

In #461 though, tans unvoted himself (un-hammered? depending on Haylen, again), and decided to join the Zod wagon again.

Here is the current vote count, if Haylen doesn't count Rhinox's vote:

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

Charlie: Stefunny
Umbrage: Nobody Special
Reapercharlie: Charlie
Zodiark: Pulindar, Nachomamma, Kryptinen, Nobody Special, tanstalas, Charlie
Rhinox: Hiraki
Hiraki:
Tans: Zodiark, Reapercharlie, Rhinox*, Umbrage, Stefunny

Not being a shunning bastard: nobody

Deadline:

Thursday 19th May 9pm BST (

(expired on 2011-05-19 16:00:00)

)

Holy freakin' ShunGate... and I'm still not gonna vote for Zodiark.

Sure wish HAYLEN WERE HERE.

*hint hint, Hayl*

[ReaperCharlie]

1. Fine, we're saying the same thing.
2. Any game that is in LyLo on Day 2 is improperly balanced. You have been here a lot longer than I have, you should know that.
3. No, voting tanstalas would not be a hammer. As long as you shun him like you're supposed to. Do it. Listen to #470.

Charlie, switch back to tanstalas too. What the f@$%.

There are 4 hours left as of this post. Let's make this tans-lynch happen. It's going to be a much better lynch than Zodiark, no matter which way you spin it. Not to mention I think Zodiark is town.

[ReaperCharlie]

tanstalas, just keep as cool as a cucumber and everything will be allright. I promise.

What the fuck is this shit?

And why am I the only one asking?

When I saw it, I shat brix.

I just forgot to say anything because I was responding to another post.

[ReaperCharlie]

shun: tans

I approve.

2. Any game that is in LyLo on Day 2 is improperly balanced. You have been here a lot longer than I have, you should know that.

oic...

I'm not voting umbrage right now because its

now

not A) the day before lylo, ...

typo.

We good now?

Ooooohhhhh. Yes.

there are 2 hours 9 minutes 3 seconds till deadline.

People who aren't voting tans, explain why now/vote tans.

This.

[ReaperCharlie]

I would have switched. But I knew we could swing it.

I am sitting here watching this game like a hawk bro.

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm scum because of starting a last minute wagon on tanstalas?

When he flips scum you will eat your words, lol

[ReaperCharlie]

Umbrage is probably town

One of Zod or Hiraki is probably scum (my bet is on Zod)
RC is most def scum
Stefunny and Rhinox could very well be scum as well, (2 two man scum teams)

I have never seen 2 two-man scum teams in a mini before.

Always a 3-man scum team and a Serial Killer (or Lyncher, or some other 3rd party).

Yep... this reeks of inside knowledge.

[ReaperCharlie]

I was just posting in the Succession II signups. Lay off.

I just got kicked out of that game before it even started, and I was pissed.

SELF HAMMERING IS SCUMMY NO MATTER WHAT.

[ReaperCharlie]

Look: There is no reason for the Zodiark wagon to have failed unless people actually thought he was town. Unless a) his scumbuddies refused to vote for him, or b) they started a counter-wagon. Which is exactly what it looks LIKE I DID. But I did it because I thought Zod was town, not because we are scumbuddies.

I AM NOT THAT STUPID. GOSH YOU GUYS.

So even though this makes it look like I am scumbuddies with Zod, I don't care. This makes me a poster-boy lynch candidate for tomorrow, which means I prob won't be nightkilled! In other words; that's great!

[ReaperCharlie]

ASK YOURSELF. WHY WOULD I DO THAT. IT'S BEYOND OBVIOUS.

IT MAKES NO SENSE FOR ME TO DO THAT. WHY WOULDN'T I JUST BUS.

UGH you guys are being dumb.

[ReaperCharlie]

I just

said

that's what I did. Herp derp.

But think about it how stupid it would be for me to do that as his buddy.

Think about it. WIFOM yourself to death.

[ReaperCharlie]

WTF IS GOING ON. I thought I died for a second, until I read it again. Umbrage's role was Reaper? I'm confused.

Wait... you did that on purpose just so you could say "Reaper Charlie", huh. >.< I'm semi-flattered, but still bewildered.

^this, when you pre-inned it just made it more epic. ~ Hayl

---

And Hiraki, explain the Rhinox vote plz. A vote without reasoning is not gonna fly.

---

I am gonna go back and re-read the thread with the knowledge that BOTH Umbrage AND tanstalas were town (which is causing my brain to explode). I suggest everyone else do the same.

[ReaperCharlie]

I still think Zodiark is town.

Shun: Charlie

Same reasons as yesterday.

[ReaperCharlie]

I am gonna go back and re-read the thread with the knowledge that BOTH Umbrage AND tanstalas were town (which is causing my brain to explode). I suggest everyone else do the same.

So you reread the thread, and yet...

I still think Zodiark is town.

Shun: Charlie

Same reasons as yesterday.

...your rereads produced the same result as two players who haven't reread the thread at all?
RC, your obvscum is showing

Aw dang it, you caught me... I haven't re-read yet.

But I don't think things will change much when I do (which won't be until at least tomorrow).

Zodiark's posts don't read like scum to me. Problem is, so do yours, even though your predecessor's didn't.

I'm gonna have to re-read you and Doombunny carefully, Nacho. Beware my trained schnauz.

I am interested to see what Nobody Special thinks.

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm gonna have to re-read you and Doombunny carefully, Nacho.

Beware my trained schnauz.

What is this...?
After being wrong about your top two scum reads D1? After distracting town all day D1, without doing any actual scum hunting?

You can't deny that Umbrage and tanstalas were insanely scummy. Are you denying that?

And are you saying I didn't do any actual scumhunting? Are you kidding me? I scumhunted more than 3/4 of this town put together.

Hiraki, what do you think the chances are of 2 two man scum teams and only one NK?

I take it by this that you believe there's a three-man scum team? Or do you think a doc or blocker got lucky, cause I can't tell.

I could see Zodiarks posts being interpreted as scummy, but I still see no confirmation or denial of the lovers claim from Hiraki.

Yes, comment on that. NAO plzthx

Stop dodging questions and start responding to things directly related to you.

QFT.

I don't think lynching Zod is a great idea at this point because possibly we could end up losing two townies. I'm not convinced Zod is scum yet.

Charlie's insane flailing back and forth between wagons at the end of D1 was scummy as all hell, and now he posts again without any content. Same as yesterday.
VOTE: Charlie

Finally somebody with a bit of common sense.

If there is support for an RC wagon I would consider that vote as well. He is simply distracting town and has admittedly not kept up with the thread.

Um, I'm not distracting town. You just sheeped my vote. That's the exact opposite of distracting town.

And not keeping up with the thread is not a scumtell, just FYI. Go read POWERFUL WIZARD MAFIA. Thx.

[ReaperCharlie]

Just read the flip again...

@Hayl: What's a Reaper role do?

LOL. Too many Reapers and Charlies and Unicorns in this game.

This is the game I was born to play. Now if only we can WIN...

[ReaperCharlie]

You say they were both "slightly" scummy. I beg to differ. And trying to pin both of those deaths solely on me is 100% LAUGHABLE. Yeah, I called for a tans lynch, but I was only one vote. And you saying that I'm responsible for Umbrage's death is LULZ territory. I'm losing my town read on you fast.

So tell me, who would you have preferred to lynch yesterday? I see you stayed on Charlie for a very long time, without much asking of questions or anything. You seemed content to sit on his wagon (after *I* started it, I might add), and do nothing to influence or add anything to the conversation during the whole Umbrage/tanstalas/me/Zodiark threadsplosion. That is exactly what I call "sitting on a safe wagon". i.e. WHAT SCUM DO. And it's even more convenient, because you knew he wasn't going to be lynched, and now you can just hop on the same wagon again and say "lolz you guys were wrong. same wagon, same reasons. you guys shoulda listened to meeeee" and Pow, you look like you're being consistent. Which is exactly what scum try for.

Actually, I lost even more of my town read on you after I just realized that. You are next to Charlie on my scum list. Whether there are two scum teams or not, or just a scum team and third parties, I don't know. But I do know that if you ARE buddies with Charlie, that bussing him (and being consistently on him since Day 1) would be a perfect excuse to look more town after he flipped scum. After all, why would you sit on a wagon on your buddy for 95% of Day 1, and do little to nothing else?

BMFHOMFS: Stefunny

[ReaperCharlie]

And how can you tell me to stop referring to other games? METAING PEOPLE IS F*$KING IMPORTANT. Stop being LAZY.

(yes, I realize the irony)

[ReaperCharlie]

No Stef. I'm not taking credit for you staying on Charlie all day when the play was obviously elsewhere. I'm saying that I was the one who initially started the Charlie wagon. Yes, I am also the one who started the tans wagon, but you can't pin his death solely on me. He was horribly scummy and I was only one of seven votes on him. Just because I was the first doesn't mean that his death is all my fault.

The entire point of me pointing out that you were on Charlie is that YOU STAYED THERE USELESSLY when there was obviously other stuff going on. Exactly what (in my experience) scum would do. And that is why you've gone up on my suspicions list. And you also failed to respond to my accusation saying that you trying to pin Umbrage's death on me is RIDICULOUS as well. So?

--

Anyway, like I promised, Doom/Nacho analysis/ISO:

#0 (Doom): Pokemon song.
#1 (Doom): RVS.
#2 (Doom): Agrees with me, votes for Charlie.
#3 (Doom): Talks about Charlie being scummy, defends his use of smilies.
#4 (Doom): Small talk with Pulindar, asks NS why he wants to lynch me.
#5 (Doom): Criticizes NS for wanting to lynch me, criticizes policy lynching. Says it's too early for an Alliance.
#6 (Doom): Top 4 scum reads: Charlie, Nobody Special, Zodiark, me. Everyone else null.
#7 (Doom): Criticizes Charlie for using only gut, that far into the game. Criticizes my long Alliance discussion posts.
#8 (Doom): Criticizes Umbrage's criticism of ADS as useless, but doubts Alliance discussion will lead to catching scum.
#9 (Doom): Defends tans against faulty attack by Zodiark. Defends himself against Umbrage's accusations.
#10 (Doom): Makes an ambiguous statement about "why would town do this?" (referring to Charlie), but doesn't follow up. Fluffs to Hiraki. Questions Umbrage about walls being pro-town or not.
#11 (Doom): Criticizes Hiraki for deflecting accusation off himself, in the same way that Charlie did previously.
#12 (Doom): Reiterates questions to a number of people, pushes on Hiraki a little more.
#13 (Doom): Arguing petty things with Hiraki
#14 (Doom): Arguing petty things with Hiraki
#15 (Doom): Arguing petty things with Hiraki, criticizes my fluffposting
#16 (Doom): Asks for answers to questions again. Discussses with Zodiark the difference between no content and anti-content (?).
#17 (Doom): Questions Zod's attack on tanstalas for trying to "break the game", and defends tanstalas' actions.
#18 (Doom): Points out a glaring contradiction in Charlie's reads, where he has me as scum in one part of post #284, but in another part does not.
#19 (Doom): Thinks I'm null, but leaning scum because of my fluffposting. Scum reads on Charlie and Zodiark have gotten stronger.
#20 (Doom): Doesn't like my Superman poem. ...Also, explains why he thinks Charlie and Zodiark are scum.
#21 (Doom): Talks with me about Alliance (still opposed), Umbrage's scumminess, and Jesters (Hayl has never used any before).
#22 (Doom): Wants to wait until at least D2 for an Alliance. Reiterates a question of mine to Umbrage.
#23 (Doom): Discusses theory with Zodiark, among other things. Answers some questions.
#24 (Doom): Scoffs at Hiraki's nonsense-posts, asks questions to Hiraki and Charlie.
#25 (Doom): Replaces out while under no pressure, due to lack of time to devote to the game.

After reading that again, I don't remember why I thought Doombunny was scummy. In reflection, maybe it was the "too town to be a townie" thing, or perhaps I was getting scummy vibes from him in context, that I don't get just from a pure ISO. Either way, after re-reading him, I'm ready to slot him as strongly town. And now onto Nacho.

#0 (Nacho): Fluff to Pulindar (<3333 etc)
#1 (Nacho): Introduction post to the whole game and not just Pul.
#2 (Nacho): Krypt is prob-town. Pul is town. My persona is typical and chances of me being scum are "less-than-random". Hiraki looks like a scumbag. "<3 Google translate makes Pul say dirty things." Wait, never mind about scumHiraki, I think. Shuns Zodiark. Calls Hiraki town. Surprised the game isn't longer. Says he'll make a more serious vote later.
#3 (Nacho): Question about why the existence of VT's matters.
#4 (Nacho): Criticizes Zod for saying the Doom/Nacho slot has been "steadily slipping toward scum", even though Nacho's only made one post when Zod posted that.
#5 (Nacho): kryptinen = "obvtown". Likes NS's play, says it reads like NS town-meta. Asks NS to vote Zodiark with him. Umbrage = "scum scum scum", Charlie = "SCUM", ReaperCharlie = "town" (by virtue of the fact that I'd be playing a better scum game if I was scum), Pulindar = "unlynchable, bulletproof innocent-child vigilante-cop-doctor", tans = "smoking some serious, serious crack. and probably town because of it", Hiraki = "town" because of "lazy SERIOUS MODE", Stefunny = suggesting things that are too ridiculous for her to be scum.
#6 (Nacho): Calls for tanstalas to lynch Zodiark. Implies pulindar is town and monologues about a glorious victory.
#7 (Nacho): Defends himself against Zodiark, criticizes/mocks Zodiark.
#8 (Nacho): big Zod case.
#9 (Nacho): Calls out Zod for rolefishing
#10 (Nacho): ebwop
#11 (Nacho): Asks Stefunny to fix a votecount.. (?)
#12 (Nacho): RC's town (because I pushed Alliance thing far past what would be beneficial for scum), and for jester thing. But I'm an ok buddy to Zod if Zod's scum, because I ignored him for a lot of yesterday. Tentative town read on Rhinox, but not sure; keeping an eye on him. Disagrees with Umbrage about tanstalas and Zodiark.
#13 (Nacho): Thinks Umbrage+Zodiark (and NOT tans) as scum, is more likely than Umbrage+tans (and NOT Zodiark). More WIFOM about the doc protecting him, defends NS's succinct vote on Zodiark because "NS would not pull that with me as town or scum."
#14 (Nacho): Implores Stefunny not to push a lynch because of annoyance. Wants to lynch Zodiark REGARDLESS OF HIRAKI'S CONFIRMATION OF THE LOVER CLAIM? (wtf?!??!!)
#15 (Nacho): Imparts that self-voting has mostly been done by town, in his experience.
#16 (Nacho): Implores tans not to self-hammer, and to get back on the Zod wagon so the Unicorn Brethren can hammer (heh).
#17 (Nacho): Apology to Stef for being a jerk.

-- Day 2 --

#18 (Nacho): Says my reads sucked, and votes Zodiark again.
#19 (Nacho): *SHUNS Zodiark.
#20 (Nacho): Thinks it's obvscum of me not to want to vote Zodiark.
#21 (Nacho): Calls a Charlie/ReaperCharlie/Zodiark scumteam.

Interesting. I don't see any attempt to verify whether or not Hiraki can confirm Zodiark's lovers-claim. I see that he wanted Zodiark lynched yesterday IN SPITE OF THAT, and what's even worse is that in his Charlie/RC/Zod scumteam call, he fails to mention Hiraki at all. Even though they are claimed lovers together. Not sure if he's reaction-fishing or what, but... Nacho is just being dumbtown right now.

Now, a Charlie/RC scumteam in a Charlie the Unicorn game would be awesome and lulzy, but sadly it wasn't meant to be. Interestingly enough, I am actually thinking Charlie and Stefunny are scum together, with a possible Rhinox as the third buddy. One kill and one kill only last night suggest that there's no SK, but you never know what with doc protections and possible roleblocks and whatnot. *shrug*

Moar later.

[ReaperCharlie]

Obviously

that was the WIFOM that scum were going for. It doesn't make sense to kill Umbrage otherwise.

[ReaperCharlie]

Well, ok. You could call it a scum gambit too. How am I supposed to defend against that? I can't.

You can come after me all you want when Rhinox flips scum. But Rhinox is not the play today either, Charlie is.

Either he or Zodiark, but I still think Zodiark is town and I think Charlie should be next. Fo srs.

[ReaperCharlie]

Um. Right.

Please tell the class why you made an epic wall about Charlie in #213, and after that, stopped mentioning him AT ALL?

Thanks.

[ReaperCharlie]

HIRAKI

Instead of repeatedly ignoring it can you please address Zod's claim about you two being lovers? Kthx.

[ReaperCharlie]

EWBOP: Funny how RC picks out Charlie as one of the people I haven't talked about when there's many that I haven't.

Instead of deflecting the question, how about answering it?

Here I bolded it and made it red for you, to make it easier to see.

Please tell the class why you made an epic (and really quite damning) wall about Charlie in #213, and after that, stopped mentioning him AT ALL?

Thanks.

And to answer your own counter-accusation: The reason I picked

Charlie

instead of the plethora of other people you are ignoring, was because:

A) You WERE ALL UP IN HIS BIDNESS LIKE WHOA, and then suddenly, NOTHING. and

B) Because I find him scummiest and you second scummiest, and I want to know what one scum read thinks of the other.

IT'S CALLED SCUMHUNTING.

[ReaperCharlie]

How did 213 damn Charlie?

I mentioned Charlie at least 3 times and called him meh, with early signs of scum that weren't strong.

First thing you wrote:

OKAY. TODAY IS WALL DAY, AND CHARLIE MAFIA IS UP FIRST.

I am just going off what you said.

Unless you were otherwise referring to Charlie the Role (Umbrage), or Charlie the Reaper (me).

[ReaperCharlie]

*headdesk*

[ReaperCharlie]

Fine, I misinterpreted. So what is your CURRENT opinion of Charlie, so we're clear on this? Plzthx

My Reads:

kryptinen - town
Doom/nacho - iffy
Nobody Special - iffy
Charlie - scum
ReaperCharlie - town duh
Pulindar - town
Hiraki - town
Stefunny - scum
Zodiark13 - town
Rhinox - iffy

MOAR ACTIVITY PLOX.

[ReaperCharlie]

Shun Count

:
Rhinox: Hiraki
Zodiark: Pulindar, Nachomamma
Charlie: Reapercharlie, Stefunny
Nachomamma: Zodiark

Not being a shunning bastard: Everyone else.

Deadline:

Thursday 5th June 9pm BST

Votes to lynch:

6/10

Prods:

Notes:

Zodiark. Nacho. Pull the wool off your eyes. Stop voting each other and vote Charlie-scum with me. OMGUS makes everyone lose.

Pulindar, you too. Zodiark is town, wtf.

Hiraki's vote is fine but I wish it was on Charlie instead. Rhinox is my #3 scumspect and idk why Stef is bussing Charlie but I like it.

[ReaperCharlie]

......

Zodiark is claimed lovers with Hiraki. It's

highly

unlikely that either are scum.

derp.

[ReaperCharlie]

No. Your argument is invalid. Zod is town. Charlie is scum. Shun accordingly.

[ReaperCharlie]

Read the whole conversation first, Stef. He wants to lynch a claimed lover, who's been confirmed by his counterpart. i.e. killing both. I'm not sure if this is a scum ploy to try to look like a REALLY stupid townie, or what. If it is, it's not working. And either way, it's not helping anything.

Nacho needs to stfu about Zodiark being scum. Zodiark and Hiraki are not scum. It's pretty much guaranteed.

Still though, for the sake of completeness: Zod/Hiraki, are you confirmed Town to each other?

If the answer is yes, then they're either BOTH town, or BOTH scum.

Also: Moar Charlie votes!

[ReaperCharlie]

RC:

I'm a Lover with Hiraki. Thing is, neither of us know the others alignment.

you're never allowed to say anything about others not reading the thread ever again.

LOOOOOL

Of the lovers I still think Hiraki is more likely to be scum than Zod, but since a lynch on one kills the other I'm fine with voting either - a vote on one is also a vote on the other, essentially.

Are you reasonably convinced that at least one of them is scum? If not, this plan is ... you know, bad?

...scum killed Umbrage who suspected him, who is at best a possible town PR, instead of killing you and getting the two-for-one deal. Meaning they would give up TWO chances to kill the all-town lover pair to kill a claimed VT and Umbrage? Hell no. Hell no hell no hell no.

Wait. Oh yeah. I totally forgot about this.

f*ck. I totally fail at this game. Like, epically. LOL

[ReaperCharlie]

Posting again because I can't believe how fail I am.

Obv scum is obv.

Question is now, do we lynch one today? Or save them for LYLO? or what.

I'm not going to give my opinion because obviously I am uber fail.

I need to go rethink my life. LOL

[ReaperCharlie]

V/LA this weekend.

May be able to post Friday.

[ReaperCharlie]

During my case against Zod back on day one I said that I felt RC and Zod were buddying. I still think Zod's the scummier of the two. The points Nacho has made have only enhanced that feeling. Like you said though, if feels like RC is trying to protect Zod.

Yeah except: If I'm scum, what does it benefit me to protect Zodiark? NOTHING.

1.

If he's

scum

and I'm

town

, then I'm STUPID and DUMB and stuff. Obviously however, this is not the case, as I am clearly ASTUTE and REASONABLE and HANDSOME... (which does not include either STUPID -OR- DUMB).

2.

If he's

town

and I'm

scum

(trying to whiteknight or w/e Nacho said), WHAT'S THE POINT? I could have gotten an easy mislynch on Day 1 by just switching my vote. Now what I have is a bunch of people saying I'm trying to protect Zod when it's really just that he's obvtown. If I was scum, I would have hammered. Trust me.

3.

If we are

scum together

and I'm protecting my scumbuddy/GF/etc, it's too OBVIOUS. Also, I'm not STUPID; see #1. There is clearly no advantage to linking us like this if we were scumbuddies. Also, there's the Hiraki thing. Unless you think the scum team is RC/Zod/Hiraki (hint, it's not), then saying Zodiark is scum CLEARLY makes no sense.

...

Which leaves only

4.

We are

both town

and whoever wants to lynch him (or me) is either retarded or just being obstinate.

It's really not that complicated..

[ReaperCharlie]

Here; posting.

Sup.

[ReaperCharlie]

FFS.

WHEN BOTH DEAD TOWN SUSPECT ONE PLAYER, SOMETHING IS UP.

This seems to be basically it.

So, what exactly is up about it? You think I lynched tans, and then killed umbrage, because both suspected me?

Wouldn't be the first time I've seen this.

As for the nk, what about my scum partners? don't they have a say? Why would we as hypo scum kill someone who suspected me as opposed to someone who suspected one of them? Does this mean everyone else who was suspected by anyone at some point in the game is more likely to be town since the players suspecting them weren't nked? Do you think it is or isn't possible I could be getting set up?

You seem to have inside knowledge of the size of the scum teams. I haven't got the time, but I remember somebody else mentioning they thought that there might be two smaller scum teams.

You, on the other hand, seem to be quite sure that there are at least three, AND you seem very comfortable in referring to yourself and your scum partners even in the hypothetical realm.

Not to mention, your barrage of questions strike me as scum trying to muddy the waters when someone is on to his devious little plan.

[ReaperCharlie]

I think I'm onto something here. Wait a few minutes I'll get something typed up.

[ReaperCharlie]

Ok, to be clear, I think Charlie and Rhinox are scum together, and if there is a third buddy, I think it's either Stefunny or one of Hiraki/Zodiark. And as to why I think Charlie+Rhinox=scum... here is EVERY TIME CHARLIE MENTIONS RHINOX IN HIS ISO:

Rhinox

- My argument with him didn't go to well. Null

------------
OK, so that was kinda messy. Sorry. But If we take away those truly null, this leaves behind

Nobody Special
Umbrage
Hiraki

Rhinox

Rhinox

's posting seems like he's posting without actually posting. This is what stands out to me. He's null, but since you've asked about his specifically I'll say that he's slightly on the scummy side to me.

Zodiark13 & Hiraki: Like

Rhinox

, I've missed out on the important fact that you're claimed lovers. Apparently I didn't pay much attention to detail, I'll WORK ON THAT. In the meantime, carry on with whatever you two are doing.

That's ALL he's said about Rhinox. ALL GAME.

[ReaperCharlie]

Can't believe I didn't notice this before. In a word: WTFcakesLOLscum!

Calling it right now: C

harlie + Rhinox + mystery scum.

I'm actually leaning

Hiraki/Zodiark

over Stefunny atm, mostly because of the whole "

If neither of them were scum, then scum would have killed one last night and both would have died"

thing.

[ReaperCharlie]

cool story bro

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm not defending Hiraki, I think he's likely scum. Mostly because I think one of the claimed lover pair is scum, and I think Zodiark is town.

In unrelated news, I just prodded the mod and half the playerlist.

Wake up, biznitches.

[ReaperCharlie]

Ok, I'm going to be V/LA this weekend, and that's starting *before* Friday.

People better get their butts in here so we can discuss shiznit before deadline.

Otherwise my vote will remain on Charlie and I won't be here to change it.

[ReaperCharlie]

I don't need to be prodded, though. I'm the only one in here.

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm the only living player with more than 55 posts. I have 129.

I think it's clear that our scum are trying to lurk their way to victory.

Let's not let them succeed.

[ReaperCharlie]

You might as well also mark me as V/LA.

[ReaperCharlie]

ReaperCharlie, publish more messages than are strictly necessary, since double and triple post frequently and a significant portion of their messages are not more than filler. Having a high post count has nothing to do with the quality of the message, and yours is not very high.

We can not simply say the beloved are automatically members of the mafia, as they are still alive. Mafia would want us to think so and lynch them. Everyone should be judget for their jobs and not wine.

I'll read all day again.

Aw dang it, you caught me... I haven't re-read yet.

So, have you done reading now?

Continue protection ReaperCharlie Zod: I think it is more likely to hit the mob if the protector is lynched. Sometimes the mafia players choose to defend the city look more city. When the mafia is revealed throughout the world screams "epic friendship" and lynched a player city.

Anyway, lost it all super pissed and super tired. Going to bed will do this Sunday maybe. Ugh.

This was written on 28 May. Where is the promised reading?

"Do you, or do you not, accept the lynch of your partner, who carries the possibility of being an opposing faction to your own and thus sacrificing yourself for the progress to your Win Con?"

Please answer this.

What NO RC YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SCUM

Terrible message, no cake.

Charlie's game has been mostly answering questions about himself. I have no idea about who he believes is suspicious and who is not. This is suspicious. Mafia are often nervous about what people think about them and jump into the discussion when the players speak of them.

Shun: Charlie

It would also be good with a lynching Charlie, but watch lovers.

Eleven minutes after Thursday where I live.

topic still says day 1 >.>

I realize this is a terrible translation, but it's straight from Google.

[ReaperCharlie]

Google Translator can rot in hell.

Somehow, I think this one is more accurate than the last one. ;P

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm on V/LA Hayl, love.

Still wanting to kill the lover pair.

I am so apathetic about this game that I would agree with you if Charlie didn't deserve it first.

We will need that extra townie to help us out with our majority vote for a while yet still, yes?

Vote Charlie with me today, and I will vote Zod/Hiraki with you when the time comes. Ok?

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm on V/LA Hayl, love.

Still wanting to kill the lover pair.

Then why are you still voting RC?

:goodposting:

Okay.

WTF dead game is dead.

Zodiak, Hiraki, do you two still claim to be lovers? Please answer either yes or no, each of you, and please don't elaborate further until you both have answered. (I have my reasons.)

How about first tell everyone why the hell you think claimed lovers would, a few days later, say "Lol whoops, we're not actually lovers".

"Do you, or do you not, accept the lynch of your partner, who carries the possibility of being an opposing faction to your own and thus sacrificing yourself for the progress to your Win Con?"

I despise this sort of try-and-force-an-answer-that-only-town-could-produce strategy. Its not only WIFOM, but doesn't seem to work for me when other people do it on me.

If I had a scum read, my answer would be yes, but while I have a town read on Hiraki, allowing him to be lynched is about as bad as self-hammering, because, in essence, it results in the same thing, and, on top of that, isn't playing towards my wincon.

*cough*tans*cough*

:verygoodposting:

I am plenty willing to leave Hiraki/Zod alive, because I still think Zodiark is town, and whether Hiraki is scum or not (I can think of no other reason why both of them would be left alive), they are both providing useful content at this point in the day (when very few others are), and because killing both of them off helps NOTHING in terms of increasing our town:scum ratio. We need to kill non-lover scum.

Not to mention, a scum that's a lover likely has no other powers than that, and is probably a goon. We need to hit scum power, and that's WAY preferable to just taking out a goon and wasting a townie on it as well, when someone else is going to die tonight as well.

Aha! It all becomes clear to me now. A revelation. Candy Mountain does exist!

Darn right it does.

Hiraki is Town. Zodiark13 isn't.

Reason: conciseness is pro-Town.

This is derpalicious.

According to this, if I say "Charlie is scum" and somebody else says "Charlie is town because of X, Y, and Z", then that means I'm right and they're wrong, just because I was more concise?

That's completely false, not to mention a cop-out on your part. Because it doesn't matter WHICH is scum, because if one dies then so does the other.

Lynch this scumbag.

[ReaperCharlie]

Rhinox is my #2 and nobody else is getting shun-happy on Charlie, so I'll just

Shun: Rhinox

as well, and be done with it. I have other games I have to devote time to as well.

[ReaperCharlie]

Has to happen soon. I wish Stefunny and Pulindar would get their arses back in here as well.

[ReaperCharlie]

... and to steal a line from tanstalas:

Why - oh why did you have to betray the unicorn brethren and be scum,

RC

Rhinox

?

[ReaperCharlie]

I think it is a vote to lynch. Please take care.

I'm more than willing to hammer Rhinox if he has nothing to say about his lynching. Mafia smells like giving up. (I can understand, a stream of votes without any proof is not trusted. NS especially.)

Google Translate is my nemesis.

[ReaperCharlie]

Sweet, I am voting both Rhinox AND Charlie.

Life CAN get better.

And so, for my next trick, I will

Doublevote: Rhinox

!

Cower before me.

[ReaperCharlie]

Nobody Special is useless.

Hiraki's wall was actually awesome.

Particularly this part:

"lol Hiraki u cant do that"

Oh yes I fucking can.

And I'll do it while playing Civilization V.

I lol'd.



------



Nobody Special.

vote Rhinox.

this is not gonna be another Day 1.

make this lynch happen or i will lynch the f@$# out of you tomorrow.

[ReaperCharlie]

That was a joke, because Hayl listed me twice in the last votecount, as voting for both Charlie and Rhinox. I'm not actually a doublevoter.

[ReaperCharlie]

I am beginning to wonder why Nacho hasn't said anything for a while.

you'd think of all people that he'd weigh in on this.

:igmeoy: Nacho

[ReaperCharlie]

Yeaaaahhh Charlie, explain to me how you aren't scum? Read: I don't like how you just jump on the chance to spread around my suspicion for Nacho.

Give me one good reason not to lynch you.

[ReaperCharlie]

I am very about nacho's sudden entrance back into the thread when his name is mentioned.

Very...

very

[ReaperCharlie]

@mod: prod kryptinen please?

This lynch needs to happen, and when he flips scum Charlie is next. Charlie should have happened first, but that's immaterial as they are both scum. Either Stef or Hiraki/Zod is the final scum, I am guessing. I have been having sincere doubts about Hiraki/Zod, because it seems too convenient of a framing for them to both be left alive last night. If it happens again tonight though, I am going to choke a b****, because that means scum are just waiting for us to lynch them. And that means an ELEPHANT-size crapload of WIFOM. And though I love WIFOM usually, I hate it when I am on the receiving end. If they ARE both town (I very much believe they are NOT both town, FTR), then that's exactly what scum would do (i.e. leave them alive) to try to WIFOM us into killing off two townies. And that would suck balls.

[ReaperCharlie]

What is this fake-hammer gambit you speak of? Are you implying that I... thought my fake double-vote was real?

I am 100% confused as to what just happened between Nacho and Hiraki. My brain is literally exploding inside my

[ReaperCharlie]

Sorry, this is RC's roommate. RC's head just exploded, good job. Now I have to clean it up.

-___-

[ReaperCharlie]

Vote: Charlie

- This can also be a vote for Rhinox at any time.

Stefunny is probably the third scum, but I'm warming up to Nacho scum very quickly.

Everyone should go back and look at who the dead suspected.

[ReaperCharlie]

Thanks.

Shun: Charlie

[ReaperCharlie]

Everyone should go back and look at who the dead suspected.

Seriously? Because I'm pretty sure everyone who has died, with maybe the exception of Zod (I'll have to go back and check, I'm pretty sure he'd changed his scum read to me), went to their grave saying that you were scum.

Do you still think this is valid reasoning for who is scum?

What happened to your alliance talk? Do you still think it is a viable idea? Do you feel like you got any useful information from the discussion of it D1?

Every game I've been in (and lost) as town, there was always somebody in the dead thread SCREAMING "hey, you MORONS, look at who I suspected! it's WHY they killed me off!" and there was always somebody who was like "oohhh yeah that would have been a great idea to do".

So yeah.

As far as them suspecting me, I freely admit it. Both tanstalas and Umbrage suspected me a lot, and then as far as kryptinen, yeah she expressed suspicion. But I would not have brought up this idea if I thought it was going to get me lynched, if I was scum. Duh.

It's not that I think it's VALID REASONING, but it's a far cry better than disregarding everything they said. Heck, that's probably WHY they were killed in the first place. Just throwing that out there, because it's a) useful, and b) seems to be being ignored.

As for the Alliance, I've thought about it, yes, but there was such staunch resistance to it Day 1 and people just called it so useless, that I'm unlikely to try to start another one. And yes, I think we got oodles of useful information, obviously. I'm going to write an article when this game is over, on why ADS (Alliance Discussion Stage) such a much better idea than the RVS or RQS. I don't expect it to catch on right away, and I definitely am not expecting it to alter site meta in a huge way in that people are going to create Alliances every day, but I think it's definitely worth doing.

So, who are you shunning today?

[ReaperCharlie]

As a side note, I *really* hope Haylen doesn't let everyone get RIGHT up against the 3 day prod limit, before she starts prodding people. (hint hint!) A dead game is much more easily winnable by scum. And so far we haven't even seen a scum flip, and it's Day 3. We are on the brink of losing and I'm not gonna let that be inactivity's fault.

[ReaperCharlie]

all we need is to lynch the scummiest today and hope we get scum. RC, I'm looking at you.

Yes. Yes, I'm scum. Lynch me. Please.

been busy all weekend. will get caught up tomorrow

....



Do you or do you not believe that Charlie is scum, Rhinox/NS?

If so, then throw a vote down. If not, then

WHY NOT?!?!?

Same question to NS about Rhinox.

[ReaperCharlie]

Everyone should go back and look at who the dead suspected.

Seriously? Because I'm pretty sure everyone who has died, with maybe the exception of Zod (I'll have to go back and check, I'm pretty sure he'd changed his scum read to me), went to their grave saying that you were scum.

Um. kryptinen's entire voting history was Umbrage, Hiraki, Charlie, Zod, Charlie, Zod, Rhinox.

And Zodiark points to Nachomamma and YOU:

So, without adressing my case against him, and convinently going V/LA, returns to hammer, stating "I have reasons for lynching someone I think is town". Right.

In case I die tonight, I'll just mention these things;

I ignored the rest of your questions because of the childhood phrase: "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.".
I suppose I could address them if you'd like, but I think you'd rather I not.

This reads to me like "I can't dismiss the points mentioned, so I'll try to take the moral high ground and claim that I can't address them without resorting to childish insults".

What the heck happened to this game? All it is now is wall after wall of mudslinging. Zod and Hiraki are probably lovers, I didn't think about the fact that it would have been an easy double kill for scum, but they didn't kill, so most likely at least one of them is scum.

I think Charlie and RC are probably scum as well, but one scum or another doesn't really matter, especially when either Zod or Hiraki is obvscum. I would now support that lynch. I have to do some more catching up, but I will post something more useful at the end of today.

The only thing that surprises me more than this post is the fact that I forgot to bring it up until now. Steff says that 'Zod or Hiraki is obvscum'. If its so 'obv', then how is it possible for an 'or'? Notice that she also says she 'would now support that lynch', but has only recently added a vote to back up that claim, nor has she really said anything other than the fact that "one of us"(what even) is 'obvscum'. But the best part is this;

I didn't think about the fact that it would have been an easy double kill for scum,

This explains why me/Hiraki wasn't NK'd last night. RC, or someone who agreed with his suspicions that Umbrage is a jester, suggested going for Umbrage, and Steff, who, by her own admission, didn't realize one being killed meant the other dies, agreed to it rather then going for one of us.

Thanks for claiming scum, Steff.

God damn, with the deadline this close, more people need to be posting.

And voting for Steff.

And then, so does Hiraki:

Stefunny just lost 10000 town points.

Ouch.

And then before the no-lynch happened (thanks to

Nacho

), Hiraki and Nacho had

this

little thing going: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3104397. It never made any sense, and Nacho ever-so-conveniently missed the deadline with his Rhinox vote, leaving us with a %&#%@

NO-LYNCH ON DAY 2

.

Now I'm wondering what exactly Nacho meant by a fake-hammer gambit, because that never DID make sense. Seriously, click the link above and see if you can decipher anything intelligible from it. Basically all I can discern is that Nacho was looking for an excuse to NOT lynch Rhinox, and so he capitalized on the flagrant inactivity in this game, and also with the wonky deadlines (which make it look like we have longer than we have, because they're in BST instead of something from America), and then at the last second was like "oh wait vote Rhinox kekeke" and then by then it was TOO LATE.

Then overnight there were three deaths, which in a mini is MUCH closer to endgame. There are now 4 dead players and with 3 scum left (or four, if we're playing with an SK, which seems likely given the two kills (three via lover) last night. Maybe a doc got lucky N1 or something, or the only other thing I can think of is a vig who didn't shoot night 1 but did shoot last night, but the best guess I have is 3 scum and 1 SK. Which basically means it's a 4-3-1 game at the moment, and overnight the scum are going to try to kill the SK, and vice versa. Which is good for us but we still can't rely on cross kills, so we have to lynch scum.

And the four scum in this game ARE: Nacho, Rhinox, Charlie, and Stefunny. This assumes 3 scum + 1 SK. I don't know which is which but I know that Nacho and Rhinox are linked via Nacho's convenient fake-hammer-no-wait-lulz-late-voting-ftl gambit, and Charlie and Rhinox are linked because Rhinox apparently doesn't find Charlie scummy even though he is a friggin' Scumboat McFail. My best guess is a Nacho/Rhinox/Charlie scum team with Stefunny as SK. I call claiming mad brownie points if I'm right.

A vote on any one of the 4 is a vote on scum, so I'm down for any of their wagons. But since Nacho and Rhinox are the most obv at this point (and yes, because I have a .0001% chance of being wrong), I'm gonna vote Rhinox or Nacho ONLY today.

Shun: Rhinox

And to those who are gonna say "oh herp derp this is just an elaborate back by RC so he doesn't have to vote for Charlie", well you can just shove that up your @$$ in advance. Kthxbye.

Now vote for Rhinox or Nacho. Preferably Rhinox, because why else would Nacho stick his neck out for him? Either he's a PR or GF and Nacho was trying to save him an extra night so somebody can get a cop result on him (if we have one) which will say Inno, OR, he's a roleblocker or some such and Nacho's just a goon. Either way, I'm fairly sure Rhinox should be the lynch for today.

[ReaperCharlie]

Yeah, I got the numbers wrong. My brain is already accustomed to thinking in terms of 13 players for minis and 5 deaths would equal 8 players left.

So, do you have anything useful to say about Nacho's rather obvious aversion to lynching you, and/or do you have anything to say about Stefunny?

[ReaperCharlie]

How was it a hold over from "yesterDay" when you talked about the lover flips which only happened last "Night"?

Also, put your Shunny where your mouth is and let's do today what should have been done yesterday.

I see Nacho is still lurking. I am totally, completely sick of lurkers. Also, I'm sick of losing.

[ReaperCharlie]

Aha! A common excuse for lurkers. :shifty eyes:

I want to hear more from Pulindar, too.

[ReaperCharlie]

wut

[ReaperCharlie]

Seriously, is that one of those "when you see it you'll sh*t bricks" things? Because... ??????

...or is it a clever form of ambiguOMGUS™ + chainsaw, cause I'm on to you and Rhinox?

I'm more thinkin' it's the latter. Heh

[ReaperCharlie]

More importantly though, what have you to say about your strategic killing of yesterday's Rhinox wagon, along with your oh-so-conveniently late vote?

[ReaperCharlie]

Ummmm, Nacho. What town motivation is there to stall?

There's been way too much stalling in this game already.

Tell me now. I don't care who goes today, you or Rhinox.

I can vote you just as easily and you're a good lynch too.

[ReaperCharlie]

You're a *

great

lynch too.

[ReaperCharlie]

HEY. WHERE IS EVERYONE.

Something is

very

wrong when I have made 10 of the last 16 posts since Sunday. Namely: Lurkerscum. (Charlie/Stefunny)

Which sucks, because this makes me somewhat unsure whether or not my Rhinox/Nacho rant from before was true, because they are pretty much the only ones posting.

So I'll just straight up ask:

Nacho, are you scum?

Don't lie to me boy, I'm a cop.

And why did you unvote Rhinox to push an RCwagon that's obviously going nowhere RIGHT at the end of the day, and then strategically vote Rhinox again JUST AFTER the deadline expired?

Fair warning: I'd

better

get the answer I'm looking for. And for the record, it's something very specific in fact... *HINT HINT NUDGE NUDGE COUGH*

...

*waits*

[ReaperCharlie]

Got my prod. Sup, thread?

[ReaperCharlie]

Hey Rhinox. Vote for yourself.

[ReaperCharlie]

Your scumbuddies.

[ReaperCharlie]

You should definitely sheep my choice.

Also, joking aside, it's impossible to take anyone seriously when they joke-vote you and then "loljkunvote" (annnnnd, now you're voting nobody, which is useles), and then buddy up to you, for the sole reason that you're being active, and then say what appears obvious: that 60% of 5 people are scum and we should probably lynch one of them.

Um, how about

read

what I've already

written

?

-Nacho wouldn't have jumped off of *any* wagon, town OR scum, which would cause a no-lynch, if he was town. Ergo, he is scum.
-Since he is scum, he wouldn't have jumped off a townie's wagon. No mislynch is very bad for scum. Ergo, you are scum with him.

How's that hard to understand? Answer: It's not.

[ReaperCharlie]

Post.

[ReaperCharlie]

Has it really been 2 days since anyone posted here?

Lurker-scum is getting a win w/o even trying.

This game == FAIL.

[ReaperCharlie]

Srsly, I don't even know what to do with

this

much inactivity.

So you know what...

Unvote; Vote: Nachomamma

If nothing else, we can bandwagon. That's all I ask... Really.

I just want this game to be over. I don't want a win anymore.

[ReaperCharlie]

Haylen, could you either prod the f*** out of everyone or just declare the game over?

This is the deadest game I have ever seen, and I have seen a lot of really dead games.

[ReaperCharlie]

Prod received, haven't logged on in a few days, heading out to a going away party now, but I will post when I get home.

scum

[ReaperCharlie]

Prod received. Have had a weird couple of days. More tomorrow.

Weird couple of days got weirder. PROMISE content before the end of Monday.

scum

[ReaperCharlie]

scum

scum

[ReaperCharlie]

Did I mention that I won't be extending deadline today and it's this Friday? Four days.

scum

[ReaperCharlie]

Please decide a lynch.

scum

[ReaperCharlie]

..........jk. Nacho or Rhino.

[ReaperCharlie]

Shun Count:

Nacho (2) - Charlie, RC
RC (1) - Nacho

Being retarded and not shunning: everyone else.

Stefunny, shun Nacho.
Rhinox, shun Nacho.
Nobody Special, shun Nacho.
Pulindar, shun Nacho.

What's so hard about this.

All you have to do is POST.

@mod: I'm gonna replace out if nobody posts in the next 24 hours.

[ReaperCharlie]

fix it and we're golden.

or was your intention to FAIL-BUS.

tee hee. I crack myself up.

[ReaperCharlie]

^that was at Rhinox

[ReaperCharlie]

Holy FUCK people are gone.

RC, I'm shelving the scumread on you because you're the only active one. Congratulations. Although, if you DO want a lynch, it probably shouldn't be on me or Rhino, considering we're the only people who can actually switch their votes.

Hiiiiii buddyyyyyyyy

*waves*

[ReaperCharlie]

Try reading my posts.

I have been quite descriptive.

[ReaperCharlie]

Unsnarkalicious: Read mah' phuckin' posts, a-hole!

[ReaperCharlie]

Fo srs yo: check it

[ReaperCharlie]

-Nacho wouldn't have jumped off of *any* wagon, town OR scum, which would cause a no-lynch, if he was town. Ergo, he is scum.

Hey.

I helped. ='(

Unsun, Shun: ReaperCharlie

Sorry Rhinox.

Seems I was wrong.

If your premise is true, then there should be no possible way for Hiraki to be town, and yet, he was.
Unless, of course, you're relying on meta. Is that the case?

EXCEPT, you didn't jump off HIRAKI'S wagon to cause a no-lynch... You jumped off RHINOX'S. Therein lies the rub.

oops that was supposed to be a real vote but fail-posted from my phone.

nacho is posting now though so I'll hold off. #810 is a good point. RC?

No, #810 is a FAIL point because it's completely missing MY point. But I notice that you again state your INTENT to vote for Nacho, but again find a reason NOT to vote for him.

Seriously, you guys couldn't be more obvious.

[ReaperCharlie]

No.

No.

No.

"HAY GUYS I DID THE SAME THING AS CONFTOWN THEREFORE I'M CONFTOWN!!!! LOLOLOL"

[ReaperCharlie]

No.

[ReaperCharlie]

No.

No.

No.

"HAY GUYS I DID THE SAME THING AS CONFTOWN THEREFORE I'M CONFTOWN!!!! LOLOLOL"

You are saying I am scum for the same action that a conftown did.
You said there is absolutely no way I could do it if I were a townie.
And yet, a townie did it. Thus blowing your theory out of the water.

Just because a townie sheeped you in making a scummy move, DOES NOT MAKE YOU TOWN.

So STOP saying it.

And you STILL never explained why you changed your vote.

WHICH YOU CAN'T DO, BECAUSE YOU

HAVE

NO REASON TO HAVE CHANGED IT, OTHER THAN TO SAVE RHINOX.

I just don't know.

This doesn't seem like town!nacho to me. At all.

But RC is SO SCUMMALICIOUS.

And then there's Rhinox.

VOTE FOR SOMEBODY THEN.

HOLY F*CK, ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

(Prediction: We are going to no-lynch 2 days running, because this town is so very, extremely incompetent.)

[ReaperCharlie]

*golf clap*

[ReaperCharlie]

Ok works for me

shun nacho

RC said so.

NOW YOU.

DO SOMETHING.

[ReaperCharlie]

Nacho's point is that the argument that I'm using against him wouldn't work against Hiraki.

This is what is called a

red herring

.


...



In other words, a fallacious argument.

[ReaperCharlie]

GET THIS THROUGH YOUR SKULL:

The fact that Hiraki did it as well doesn't mean that Nacho isn't scum for doing it.

My best guess is that Hiraki thought Nacho was onto something, because right after Nacho posted:

Unshun, Shun: ReaperCharlie

Hiraki, that's how you fake hammer gambit.

Hiraki posted this:

Hey.

I helped. ='(

Unsun, Shun: ReaperCharlie

Sorry Rhinox.

Seems I was wrong.

Now, not only does NONE of that make any sense.

But ADDITIONALLY, it derailed your wagon and gave us a no-lynch. WHOOP DE DOO. TERRIFIC.

So that leaves us the quandary:

ARE THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THE TOTALLY AWESOME NO-LYNCH POSSIBLE SCUM? or TOWN?

Well we know that ONE OF THEM IS TOWN.

And that means THE OTHER ONE IS.... WELL?

OH WAIT HE'S OBV TOWN TOO! BECAUSE ONLY TOWNIES DERAIL LYNCHES AT ENDGAME!

I SWEAR, YOU GUYS ARE SO STUPID ITS MAKING ME

GLAD

I'M LEAVING.

[ReaperCharlie]

ALSO:

if my vote counting is correct, I'm now at L-3, Zod is at L-2, RC is at L-4, and deadline is in 2 minutes

OH HEY LOOK - A SADFACE.

BECAUSE YOU'RE

SOOOO

SAD THAT YOU'RE NOT GETTING LYNCHED.

BOGUS

.

[ReaperCharlie]

tl;dr: Nacho and Rhinox are scum together.

It's COMPLETELY FREAKING obvious.

Any vote that's not for either of them is a wrong vote. And I'll give you a hint: your vote BETTER be Nacho, since a deadline is looming, and you know how well ALL OF US IN THIS GAME handle deadlines.

NOW MAKE IT HAPPEN BEFORE I RIP ALL OF YOUR HEADS OFF.

[ReaperCharlie]

ALSO, EXPLAIN THIS POST NACHO:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p3104933

OH WAIT YOU CAN'T.

[ReaperCharlie]

Oh, sorry. Here:

Shun Count

Nacho (2) - Charlie, RC
RC (2) - Nacho, NS

[ReaperCharlie]

Oh, I thought you were asking me for one.

>.<

I like to put placeholders People usually don't see them though ~ Hayl

[ReaperCharlie]

Anyway,

NS

. Please post a rebuttal to what I posted above, or vote Nacho.

Rhinox

, stop pussy-footing around and vote Nacho, like a good little scum.

Stefunny

,

Pulindar

, stop lurking and vote Nacho. Seriously what the F!$#

How is

Charlie

the only one doing anything worthwhile around here? Augh.

This game.

[ReaperCharlie]

Nacho, if you are reading this, then answer #829. Nao-style.

[ReaperCharlie]

I think a better question is, are you still scum if he's scum?

Except replace "if" with "when", and switch the words "you" and "are".

And then that question mark won't do either. Get rid of it.