Flash mafia 3 (town wins)

[Regfan]

DGB and Ythill wtf why out my role so quickly, I don't like instant claiming as miller.

Onto the actual game, good playerlist minus crypto because he sucks. Llarmable is town. Ythill is town. Fate is probably town too, the wagon on him for a lack of activity is idiotic, he's more likely to be active early game as scum. Not seeing the case on Eli at all, browsed through a few of her games and she voted no one in a previous town game of hers thus voting no one if anything is a minor town-tell for her. Ghostwriter scum is something I do agree with though.

Vote: Ghostwriter

.

[Regfan]

Farside, sure, I'll pull up links of Fates love of being mafia and increased activity over town later when I have time, you state you currently have two town reads can you explain your reluctance in outing them?

Ythill, I often get detention at the pre-school I attend though what in particular about my nature do you find to be rebelious or scummy. Still not seeing it on Eli, her actions certaintly aren't pro-town but I don't read them as scummy.

[Regfan]

Ythill, I believe the suspicions were relatively easy to work out though if there's more to them feel free to elaborate on them for me.

Farside, yes, I believe providing town-reads increases the pool of information that we have which is optimal considering the fact that at the current moment the wealth of knowledge mafia have would surpass ours by far as well as providing information that can be used to attain a stronger read of you. Properly understanding someonse reasons behind their reluctance in outting particular reads also increases the ability to read the player. Although I can understand AGOTIs point and you are indeed contradicting yourself as my question was leading towards you outting them I find your stubborness to be one of your strongest town-tells.

Town: Ythill, LLarmable, Farside, Prozac, Fate.
Scum: Ghost

[Regfan]

You have a link for him doing that as scum?

Finally got a chance to grab them, in Aggresive Mind Games he was scum and spammed the entire thread early game. In Might of Mordor and Walking Dead Mafia he started the game as town and was late to the game thus didn't spam the thread early game.

[Regfan]

Porochaz, I read your questioning of Tajos town-read on you rather than just accepting it as a town-tell, mafia actually want to be read as town therefore have no reason to continue to draw attention towards them after attaining it.

Farside, I'm going to assume you mean the hydra I used in Round Table, if so I was the much more active head of it (R). I have a lot of meta on Fate because I was/am part of Team Mafia and the other two games were games I followed partially while trying to get back into the swing of forum mafia. I didn't expect you to be a physic though I thought it was common knowledge that my question was going to be leading towards outting them.

[Regfan]

Also, since I found this on accident the first time:

@Mod: Could you send out a PM to Fate and Crypto with the link to the game, in case they don't know.

This was something I also noticed (Only about Crypto though) and PM'ed the mod about, hopefully it should be sorted out soon.

Farside, yes, I followed the team mafia game because I was part of it. One of the alternate games I followed because RedCoyote was in and I was follow quite a few of his games, the most notable being Rusty Guillotine Mafia which was an amazing read. The other I read because I was trying to get the hang of theme games, I also followed Jurrasic park mafia for that reason as well which ended dissapointingly.

Llarmable, my town-read on Fate has nothing to do with him being wagoned or the people on his wagon. My town-read on him stems from the fact that I believe his activity early game as scum would be huge whereas I've seen him start the game late as town multiple times ie. The games I provided in my prior post.

[Regfan]

Ythill, that's not true at all, my posts may entail an element of defence but that's purely because I'm getting voted. I've been scumhunting throughout the whole of the game thus the town-reads I have aquired. Though I don't have any strong scum reads at the moment, just a weaker one on Ghost that I'm doubting to a degree right now. My comment about pre-school detention was merely a joke and if I was attempting to diffuse the situation why would I follow that up with questioning what in particular you found to be rebelious or scummy.

Crypto is town, Fate, Ythill and Prozac are still town. Farside is town, she has a tendancy to ask for meta on players as town rather than mafia though I'll have to read into a few more of her games to make sure. Slightly less certain on my town-read of Llarmable at the moment though.

[Regfan]

Yes, I have a massive tendancy to attempt to prevent lynches and wagons go through on players that I have a town-read on.

[Regfan]

Farside, I consider a spammer to be someone who fills the thread with useless and irrelevant content, the one example that I can think of at the top of my head would be Ythan. I don't actually know why I didn't ask Parabollocks for his reads, though I would like to hear them.

[Regfan]

Farside, perhaps spamming is the wrong word because he didn't chuck a Ythan in that game but his activity early in the game was incredibly superiror to this game.

Ythill, the fact that it's still early game doesn't mean that it's impossible for those lynches to go through without much activity from the player, [Redacted] is proof of this. Furthermore I prefer pressure and 'wagons' to be on players that I actually believe are likely to be scum, not players that I don't.

Elibereth, there's a particular reason why crypto and I'm unsure if I can link it though you can find it yourself quite easily.

[Regfan]

The last page and a half has increased the strength of my scum-read on Ghost, he's attempting to provide information and content but none of it is productive or all that relevant at all.

Tajo, let me get this right, you agree with a great deal of my reads and reasoning behind them however you believe I'm mafia because I'm struggling to attain multiple scum-reads while other players themselves have stated they havea an exceeding number of town-reads in comparison to scum-reads. I'm also not at L-1, it's 8 to lynch not 6 the previous vote count is incorrect.

[Regfan]

wait, no? besides prozac, i disagree with a lot of your reads. thats exactly whats bothering me about you, it seems you are too scared to make enemies calling people town for nulltells and recently pursuing the GW tangent after being called on it.

None of this post makes any sense whatsoever, in Post #32 you state you hold a town-read on Ythill, Llaramable, Prozacs and *suprise* me while also having a scum-read on Ghost therefore you agreed with my earlier reads and actually found my defence of Fate as a town-tell however you seem to be content to call it the opposite right now. Furthermore I didn't "recently pursue the GW tangent" I've had my vote on him and stated suspicion of him since my opening post.

Fate, Regfan is all LOLFATEMETAISACTIVEEARLY instead of LOLIFFATEWASSCUMQTANDSHITMEANTHEWOULDKNOWABOUTGAME and later is all BUTIKNEWCRYPTODIDN'TFINDTOPICBUTDIDN'TNOTICEFATE.

The arguments proposed for joining and pushing the Fatewagon from other people included "He's not active and posting here therefore mafia", I explained why that was completely bullshit via showing meta examples and showed that his activity is likely to be HIGH as scum early game therefore the lack of activity was a town-tell. I'm done with playing coy, read the sign up thread and you'll see the reason that I specifically asked about Crypto.

That said I had been questioning Regfan before and increasingly found him scummier and scummier. Nothing has changed that. Your non-post is null if both regfan and GW both claim you spam as scum......unless they are lying. Are you saying they are lying?

The questions you've been asking me all involve spam level and previous meta with Fate, not once have you attempted to ask me about my current reads or thoughts. Essentially you're attempting to direct your line of questioning in a manner which inevitably will lead with you continuing your suspicion for me. You asked me about which head of Round Table Mafia I was (Which just recently finished so should give you good meta on me as well as should be something that you remember) and then continue pushing on me for actions that I also performed in Round Table.

Fate, Ythill, Prozacs and Crypto are obvious as fuck town. Leaning town on Elibereth, Parabollocks and Llarmable (Albeit weak) at the moment. My town-read on Farside is decreasing rapidly however I'm nowhere near comfortable voting her, Ghost and Tajo are much better lynches. I need more content from DGB,
Untrod Tripod and a girl on the internet though I don't see AGOTI being scum with Farside given their earlier interactions.

[Regfan]

[quote="populartajo""]so at one point on the game you didnt have scum suspects which was precisely my point of you playing it safe and clearing influential people for nulltells.[/quote]
This isn't true at all, again as I've said read my very first fucking post and you'll see that I suspected GW then, yes there was a point in the game that my read on him decreased in strength however his recent postings have solidified it. I'll rephrase though, you stated you had a town-read on me earlier when I had defended Fate, what was this town-read based upon? Alright, lets make this easier, with the exception of difference in reasoning for our reads on Fate and to a degree Farside which of our reads reasoning are different?

Farside, I mentioned my reads in my previous post, if you actually suspected me you would be spending time to read my posts properly however it seems you're skimming because you haven't even attempted to respond to my response to your meta questioning. You seem to avoiding any response to me and you state that I was your strongest Fos previously however you've progressed onto saying you think Fate is mafia and GW is confirmed mafia while avoiding stating the reasoning behind the change of opinion or reduction of strength of your read on me.

Although I don't believe Farside has responded well to the pressure or bandwagon which has formed against her I still don't find her anywhere near as scummy as Ghost who is posting elsewhere while attempting to lurk this day phase out. On an unrelated note, I'm leaning strongly towards Parabollocks being town this game.

[Regfan]

Yes Farside, you've read my previous post incorrectly. I do have a town-read on Fate and it hasn't done anything but increase in strength as the day has progressed, what I was asking you is why you've ignored/skimmed a great deal of my posts and avoided replying to them while also stating that something is 'off' about my posts.

With that said I believe Farsides role-claim and votes need to continue moving to GW who seems content to question her claim but ignore the wagon against him as well as refraining from stating any reads elsewhere.

The fact that Tajo went through the list to look for roleblocker and then states that he hasn't founded it in the list reads as a dumb-tell and means I'm probably wrong about him. Oh and this game needs more crypto.

[Regfan]

Catching up with this game, from a brief skim feeling slightly nervous about the lynch due to the VT claim, going to take a brief look at his previous scum games and what he claimed in them later as well. Should have my thoughts up within the next hour or two.

[Regfan]

Was hoping to be able to devote more time to this game today however the hammer has hindered that greatly and I want to make sure I get my reads out before night phase begins. I have relatively strong town-reads on Fate, Prozac, Ythill, Tajo, Crypto and Elibereth though the town-read on Elibereth decreases massively in strength on the off chance Ghost flips town and weaker town reads on Parabollcks and Llarmable.

Not exactly sure what to make of Untrods lack of activity in this particular game while posting elsewhere but taking a look at his game record statistics it's probable that he has a lot less interest in the game as scum, want to hear a lot more from Amrum though. I also want to hear a lot more from AGOTI, DGB as well and I'm still unsure what to make of Farside though I would lean slightly town due to her claim and attitude about her claim.

[Regfan]

I'll be back later today to post the rest of my thoughts but Farside needs to out who she roleblocked instantly and Llarmable a single scum-team of three to four players is likely here.

[Regfan]

Getting to this in the morning, was busy handing my resume in to multiple places throughout the whole of today, exhausted as fuck.

[Regfan]

Town Reads (Strongest to weakest):

Farside, PopularTajo, Crypto, Fate, Ythill, Parabollocks.

Null reads:

DGB, Elibereth, AGOTI.

Scum Reads (Strongest to weakest):

Llarmable, Amrum, Porochaz.

Spoiler: Reasoning behind my reads:

1. Farside, the way she claimed, her attitude and her actual role claim all read as genuine town, the lack of death last night was highly likely a result of her role blocking correctly and her actions and insistence on waiting for more information today all read as town-tells.

2. Populartajo, despite his idiotic and illogical ramblings earlier his reaction to Farsides role-claim and belief that the role didn't exist in the potential game
roles reads as a geninue town-slip. I don't see him attempting to fake disbelieving a role-claim especially in the manner in which he reacted.

3. Crypto, his unsureness that the game started and lack of posting in the thread essentially assures me that he's town however I really do want to see more content from him.

4. Fate, even though he pushed on both GW and Farside I'm relatively sure he's town, his attitude and insistence that Amrum is scum today and his interactions with Llarmable all read as strong town-tells.

5. Ythill, I'm actually finding it slightly difficult to explain this read, his attitude and actions throughout day one read as genuine attempts at scumhunting.

6. Parabollocks, despite his low activity and the fact he's site flaked I still have a weak town-read on him, his natural progression in suspicion on Farside throughout yesterday is understandable and the fact he never considered hoping on the Ghost lynch reads as a town-tell, from what I know of him he's not one to play coy, if there's a mslynch he'd take it despite how it may look for his image.

7. DGB, I'm honestly unsure what to make of her lack of activity and effort in this game, I know that it's near the complete opposite of how she placed early game in Vi's mafia game and White Flag mafia but at the same time it's also the opposite of a previous town game of hers that I read.

8. Elibereth, gone back and forth on her multiple times today, not exactly what to make of her actions because a great deal of my previous town-read on her disappeared with the Ghost town flip. I do want her to go into her reasoning for her Amrum scum-read in some more depth without it revolving around Tripods lack of activity.

9. AGOTI, unlike Parabollocks her lack of activity and content makes it infuriatingly difficult to attain a real read on her, if anything I would lean slightly town on her due to her reaction to the hammer but that's extremely weak.

10. Llarmable, his actions this game heavily conflict with any of his previous town-meta that I have (Noticeably Buffy Mafia) and I'm absolutely certain that Farside did role block him which is highly likely the cause of the no-kill. His attempt to get doc to 'crumb' their target screams mafia ploy, mafia know who was targeted therefore they know exactly what to look for when hunting for doctor tells there it's more disastrous than beneficial for doctor to crumb their save. Furthermore his attitude when attempting to state his reads screams as an attempt to create minimal usable interactions from his day two play rather than actually scum hunting.

12. Amrum, her useless questions upon entry, weak reads with inclusion of stating that she doesn't see how I could be scum while stating that she sees some things and voting of her "town-read" on Llarmable without explaining it outside of WIFOM reads as awful though I'm not convinced she's mafia and await Eliberethes reasoning behind her read on Amrum.

13. Porochaz, although I had a strongish town-read on him earlier it's disappeared now. During day one he let his suspicions and thoughts of Eli be known however instantly upon entering day two he states that Llarmable would be a good lynch and this is before it was announced that he was role-blocked, it reads as an attempt to attain some form of town-cred.

Vote: Llarmable

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[Regfan]

Skimmed the thread and what the fuck, holy fucking shit this exploded overnight. Going back for a proper read through now, should have my thoughts up in an hour for now:

Unvote

[Regfan]

Alright, I don't see any particular reason why Fate would attempt to claim mason to save Llarmable as scum at all, he'd buss the fuck out of him, claim he called it from day one and coast. With that said holy motherfucking shit was that "Loldistancingeachother" gambit fucking stupid, I was considering hammering Llarmable two to three times and if it wasn't for his promise of more content I would have.

What bothers me though is this: For Llarmable to be town it would mean that there's essentially a confirmed doctor in the setup, two masons and a roleblocker, this alone seems like an incredible amount of strength/power especially with likely inclusion of multiple other power roles.

Llarmable, lets go through your this shit:

Scumtell #1; If you had read a greater deal of my games you'd notice that I use run on sentences in every game I'm in regardless of allignment, the only reason that it's different in PYP was because I replaced in and spent hours working on my replace in post. If you'd have read my follow up posts in that game you'd have seen multiple run-on-sentences as well.

Scumtell #2 and #3; I've been pondering a shitload which is highly evident by me stating that I was struggling to find strong scum-reads earlier in the game, I took a short break stepped back and rethought multiple reads/events. Similar to Buffy Mafia my town-read strengths are substancially stronger than my scum-reads. Heck if you'd have read any of my scum-games you'd have noticed that I loveee bussing and distancing, I'm almost addicted to it so I'm unsure how you can even attempt to suggest otherwise furthermore it should be obvious enough the reasoning behind the lack of recent interaction with Tajo is because I think he's illogical as fuck town and I don't want to get into a repeat of a 10 page argument like I previously did with Mastin in an alternate game.

Porochaz, does this mean that your suspicions of Eli has decreased of merely that your suspicions of Llarmable has overtaken hers? On an unrelated note, fuck you crypto, one of the primary reasons I joined this game was because you were in it.

Farside, Crypto, Fate, Llarmable and Tajo are town as fuck. End of. Need to re-read this again later because a few of my reads were based around Llarmablescum but right now leaning heavily towards Amrum being mafia.

Vote: Amrum

[Regfan]

Llarmable, I need to a lot more reading but leaning towards probable partners being Porochaz and Parabollocks. She avoids Porochaz, states she has a town-read on him despite his lack of content, then suggests he's mafia again later yet never throws too much attention towards him or questions him.

Her 'Para is scumscumscum', 'DBG is null leaning scum' while saying 'Unlikely they're mafia together' and then not exactly pushing her scumscumscum read and changing to one of her town-reads honestly looks like attempted distancing.

[Regfan]

Too tired to respond to Amrum properly but 1-shot vig isn't in the role list, she's confirmed mafia. Lets get this going.

[Regfan]

Llarmable, Fate, Farside, Shafted and Tajo need to be considered as confirmed town tomorrow. Elibereth is highly likely town too now.

Fate, thoughts on Porochaz, DGB and Ythills slot please.

[Regfan]

Not seeing the scum-read on Tajo to be perfectly honest. Yes, his play has been all over the place and illogical but his reaction to Farsides claim and his reaction to the mason claim read as town.

I think final scum are within: [AGOTI, Porochaz, Parabollocks]

[Regfan]

Fate, Shafted = Crypto. That slots town.

[Regfan]

mhmm, I get the feeling he's telling people what they want to here rather than his own opinions.

Yes, that makes sense, especially when a great deal of my reads are shared by nearly no one.

[Regfan]

Seven to lynch, the last vote count shows five votes on Amrum, Tajos vote makes it six and DGBs vote makes it a hammer, no need for extra votes.

[Regfan]

You've got to be fucking kidding me, Farside roleblocked me and I'm honestly unsure what to make of the lack of deaths two nights in a row. Considering the situation I may as well outright claim and suggest a mass-claim occur today as well.

I'm a tracker, tracked Farside to Llarmable N1, N2 I tried tracking Porochaz but no go result, thought it might have been a mod mistake but it seems it's not. I did breadcrumb multiple times and be quite frank I thought it was obvious enough that I was an investigative role that I was considering outright claiming at the end of yesterday.

In Post #501 I asked her to out her roleblock target because I knew she had visited Llarmable and figured her claiming to have blocked anyone else would have been confirmation that she was mafia and in Post #594 I stated I was "absolutely certain that Farside did role block him". In Post #834 I stated "there's essentially a confirmed doctor in the setup, two masons and a roleblocker, this alone seems like an incredible amount of strength/power especially with likely inclusion of multiple other power roles" because knew that it would mean inclusion of a tracker, roleblocker, two masons and a doctor.

I still think the final mafia are inside [AGOTI, Zoraster and Porchaz] and the interactions between Amrum and Zoraster/Parabollocks slot are odd as fuck.

Vote: Zoraster

[Regfan]

Farside how about you fucking read my posts instead of playing like a complete moron. You complain about Fates playstyle being "Spammy" but I'd take his spammy playstyle over your complete inability to read posts any day.

1. With 14 players standard scum-team size is 3-4 as mentioned:

I'll be back later today to post the rest of my thoughts but Farside needs to out who she roleblocked instantly and Llarmable a single scum-team of three to four players is likely here.

2. The town-read I had on him reduced massively throughout day two and his interactions with Amrum were extremely suspicious as was his lack of voting for her throughout yesterday, mentioned and elaborated on here:

Scum Reads (Strongest to weakest):

Llarmable, Amrum, Porochaz.
13. Porochaz, although I had a strongish town-read on him earlier it's disappeared now. During day one he let his suspicions and thoughts of Eli be known however instantly upon entering day two he states that Llarmable would be a good lynch and this is before it was announced that he was role-blocked, it reads as an attempt to attain some form of town-cred.

I need to a lot more reading but leaning towards probable partners being Porochaz and Parabollocks. She avoids Porochaz, states she has a town-read on him despite his lack of content, then suggests he's mafia again later yet never throws too much attention towards him or questions him.

[Regfan]

I tracked you because it's a guaranteed relatively useful result. The odds of tracking/catching a visit elsewhere is minimal and the odds of catching the mafia that is submitting the kill was 1/12.

If by some chance you are a mafia goon and I track you visiting no one it confirms you are mafia 100%. If I track you to a player that you claim to have a town-read on the likelihood that you're a mafia roleblocker is massive and if I track you to someone that I believe you would roleblock as town I reaffirm my town-read on you.

[Regfan]

Honestly, mass-claim at this point in the game could create an autowin scenario which is key. Put it this way, current playerlist is; Fate, DGB, Ellibereth, Llamarble, Mastin, Springlullaby, Porochaz, Farside, Shaft.ed, Agoti, Regfan, Zoraster. Everyone should agree that masons are legitimate and the odds of roleblocker being legitimate is massive so it's safe to remove them from the suspect list at the moment.

This turns the suspect list into nine players being (DGB, Elibereth, Mastin, Springlullaby, Porochaz, Shaft.ed, Agoti, Regfan, Zoraster). There is essentially a guaranteed doctor in the game at this point so we can safely remove another player from the suspect list leaving eight players. If the doctor saved someone else that's in the suspect list it means there will be seven unclears only with three mslynches being highly likely setting us up for a great chance to win.

[Regfan]

You didn't find me scummy. You didn't find the claim scummy. So you followed me for information. That sounds more like info for scum then town there buddy. This song sounds soooooo much reminds me of Llamafluff from American Gods I feel like going in there and quoting it things he said and comparing.

Think about it for half a fucking second. I know for a fact that tracking you provides me with information, information leads towards me either reaffirming my read on you or confirming you as mafia which is much more profitable then tracking elsewhere which would be tracking into a 1/12 shot of hitting the shooting mafia. Secondly, there's no reason for mafia to track a roleblocker claim because it gives them NO information whatsoever other than who the roleblocker suspects which would be gained from just questioning them about their reads.

[Regfan]

I had roughly five town-reads at the end of day one, give or take one or two all differing in strength.

Shafted is town solely because he is filling Cryptos spot, the fact that Crypto was unaware that game had started and that there was this thread reads as a strong as fuck town-tell, furthermore he has a massive tendency to put more effort in when mafia and his attitude here resembles his town-play in multiple other games.

Tajo is town for multiple reasons and to be quite frank I want Fate to elaborate into why he thinks Tajo is scum. Tajos reaction to your claim not being in the setup read as a geninue town thought process, as mafia he would have known that your role was in-fact in the setup and therefore wouldn't have attempted to discredit it for those reasons and the manner in which it was said doesn't seem forced/faked. His aggression and attitude towards the mason claims and his continual doubting of them reads as idiotic town more than anything else although I do understand there's a slight logical fallacy in there being the "Too scummy to be scum".

[Regfan]

why? whats the benefit of outright claiming at the end of yesterday?

I was going to split the remaining suspects into two pools and have farside roleblock pool A and I track someone in pool B. It would have forced mafia to decide whether they wanted to risk being role-blocked or caught via tracking and would have guaranteed that I wouldn't have been roleblocked myself.

[Regfan]

The last game we were in together he used meta to clear me when I was scum. I would think someone who had read a player as town with meta and flipped scum would be more wary of meta.

Yeah no, this didn't happen. There was a point in the game where I considered you town but that was due to suspected Maxous and Twistedspoon to be mafia. As the game progressed and Maxous flipped town I didn't have any form of strong town-read on you and infact voted you, the sole reason I didn't suspect you at the very end of the game was because Twistedspoons gambit was something I was fooled by.

[Regfan]

That was after you cleared me with the meta. This game all you do is say crytpo is town because meta as scum would have him posting more. That is not a town tell, that is meta tell and says nothing about how he has played in this game to = town.

I never cleared you over meta, considering I fucking voted you in that game that much should be obvious so stop attempting to create up reasons to vote me. Crypto not posting more isn't the sole reason that I believe he's town, way to fucking misrepresent me, seriously I'm growing tired of your complete inability to read the entirety of someone elses posts. Mafia know the game has started because mafia have a quick topic, they also know where the game is located, the fact that Crypto knew neither of these makes him incredibly likely town.

I'm heading to bed but I need to re-read this game again in the morning though nothing thus far has changed my mind over Fate, Llarmable, Farside, Mastin, Elibereth and Shafted being town.

[Regfan]

Yeah, I cant' sleep. Have you even read any of my posts? There's seriously not that many of them. I think Zoraster is scum due to Amrums interactions with him and the post you quoted has to do with who I find to be Amrums most likely partners, ie. Zoraster and Proazacs.

[Regfan]

I'd be more than willing to.

At the time that was posted I thought the roleblock on Llarmable prevented the night-kill and thus LLarmable was mafia meaning I thought Porchaz's vote on him was an opportunistic attempt at gaining and attaining town-cred by voting his partner that was roleblocked. Since LLarmable however is a mason and not mafia that entire point becomes irrelevant and moot though his lack of suggesting that Eli should be lynched or mafia on day two despite his almost near-insistence that she was on D1 reads as inconsistent and off.

[Regfan]

Llarmable, your thoughts on mass-claiming in this position? The way I view it is if doctor has saved a player already outside of the clears on one of the nights we'll have it down to seven suspects with him claiming which is perfect. Also, your reads on Zoraster, Porochaz, AGOTI and Springlullaby would be appreciated.

Farside, this was the final thing you said about me yesterday was this:

Llama I'm expecting you to finish and explain your scum read because after Regfan's last post I'm finding it increasely hard to believe he's scum. His logic and meta reasoning is something that I found interesting. I do have one concern but I'll worry about that later.

[Regfan]

@Regfan: Then why did you say at the start of the game that I roleblocked you? Would you not think that scum may have roleblocked you?

I don't see nor have I ever seen two roleblockers in the same setup, it leads towards major problems. Furthermore a scum roleblocker doesn't make much sense considering the only roles they would be able to block would be doctor and tracker. There's minimal point having scum roleblock a doctor due it being optimal for them to outright kill them and addition of a scum roleblocker against a tracker is actually a hinderance for mafia as it leads towards potential of them being caught.

Now I'm really going to bed, going to be fucked for golf in the morning.

[Regfan]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of this DGB wagon. Although she's playing differently to her normal town and scum meta I really don't see her actions being her as scum. She wouldn't hold of lynching Amrum just to have Amrum fake claim something as dumb as 1-shot vig.

Farside and Shafted, you should join me on Zoraster.

[Regfan]

Amrums claim was terribad due to what shafted said along with the fact that she stated she wasn't that role prior to her claim. After D1 one occurred I'm sure it would have been mentioned in the QT that she's likely to be run up at some point or another and I really do not see DGB letting her claim that.

There really needs to be more votes on Zoraster. His suspicion thrown towards Farside and his change of vote without explaining his change of stance as well as his avoidance of discussing the double no-death is scummy as fuck.

This reminds me a lot of how you talked about the Fate wagon early on. Dubious meta-ey stuff. Can you give me a you-town-doing-this example?

Sure, just look into any of my town games. If you want specific examples to read into look at my attitude and thoughts about Scumhunters claim in 00's Band Mafia, my thoughts on Gorillas opening post in Desert Mafia and my read on Mastins illogical tunnel vision in Mini 1180. If you want any more examples or them deeper explained I'd be willing to go into it, just ask.

[Regfan]

Not sold on Zoraster being town from that reaction, I'd have expected him to count the votes on him and notice it's not a hammer as town. Starting to see the DGB case but not going to lie, still prefer a Zoraster lynch. Also, Mastin, where's your catch up post and thoughts?

I still believe doctor claiming and outting their saves is optimal, it provides us with a wealth of information and forces mafia to shoot them tonight nearly allowing tracker, roleblocker and masons to live deeper into the game where they're much more effective.

[Regfan]

I'd also like Regfan to confirm his tracker ability tonight. Another confirmed innocent is worth more than a crapshoot for some tracking results.

Are you suggesting that I track Farside again tonight?

[Regfan]

Sure. The only potential downside would be Farside dying however the risk of a doc save on her should be more than enough to ward mafia away from shooting her especially when another doc save would leads towards another mslynch.

[Regfan]

Name: Mason
Alignment: Pro-town.

Description: Masons are a group of 2-3 townies that know they are innocent. They can communicate at night if they choose otherwise no special abilities.

[Regfan]

Yeah, fairly sure he's flipping scum. Still think Porochaz or Agoti is likely partner with an outside chance of it being Mastin or Spring, although I had town-reads on their predecessors their complete lack of content is worrying.

Llarmable, Fate, Farside, Elibereth and Shafted are sure-fire town and VP makes me feel a lot better about DBGs slot and am leaning town on it again.

[Regfan]

The continued lack of night deaths is confusing to say the least, at this point mass-claiming is optimal however Farside should out who she roleblocked first.

I tracked Porochaz and he visited no one therefore if Farside didn't roleblock him and my assumption of three scum in a fourteen player game is correct he's town. Tracking Farside would have been meaningless and a waste of a track because with this likely being one mafia remaining Farside-scum would have shot me in order to prevent herself becoming confirmed scum. Also fuck you Fate, you didn't get two in a row, I at least get partial credit for the Zoraster lynch.

I'll refrain from voting until Farside has outted her results and a mass-claim has occured.

[Regfan]

I'd like Reg to explain to me why he wants us to massclaim because I don't see the advantage to it, at all. Also, your explanation about why you didn't track Farside smells bad, why would you want to the possibility of confirming two townies (yourself and Farside to an extent), on the of chance Farside isn't scum? If Farside was scum she would have killed you off anyway, no? So why justify you choice based on that factor? Looks like bullshit to me.

FOS Reg

1. I don't believe anything is up in a setup mechanic sense because inclusion of janitor insinuates that night kills should be occurring so mafia have something to hide.

2. Mass-claiming is optimal because right now we have ten people alive, assuming we consider Farside and the two masons as conftown which I do a the moment we have seven suspects. If the doctor claims they'll be clear due to them being the prevention of the night-kills instantly reducing it down to six suspects and if they have saved someone that isn't Fate, Llarmable or Farside they themselves can reduce the suspect pool down to five or four. If the setup is three scum which is likely then we currently have three mslynches and a lylo lynch to nail the final mafia. This means we have the means and opportunity to deal with four out of the five or six suspects, with tracking and roleblocking we can reduce that even more and create unpreventable automatic win scenario.

3. There's only two reasons to track Farside 1) To clear her 2) To clear myself, I think that's undeniable. Following the logic that Farside-scum has to shoot me to have any chance of winning this game there are two occurrences that happen if Farside is scum A) I die and my report is meaningless B) Doctor saves me and I confirm her therefore no new information is attained in 'clearing her' by tracking her. As for clearing myself I didn't believe it necessary, I believe the sole fact that I led and pushed the Zoraster lynch would make it obvious enough that I'm town therefore my efforts and usage of my track would be best used tracking potential future mslynches to clear them.

[Regfan]

Broken logic in bolded red. You say that you think there is 3 scums remaining. Following your self stated assumption, it logically follows that you would think that if Farside is scum, she must be the last one and therefore the one who makes the kill. Hence if you had tracked her, you would have seen her do the killing.

Now, in the perspective of gambitting scum you, I think the quote in green is you trying to cheek town with wifom and daring anyone to point that out. Well, it's wifom. What do you say? I'm giving you two more posts to convince me not to vote you.

1. I never said there's three scum remaining, I said I'm assuming three scum in the setup therefore one scum remaining, this means yes, I would be tracking whoever is final scum to the kill.

2. No kill occurring and the doctor claiming to save me increases the likelihood that Farside is scum which is information gained from not tracking her rendering the usefulness of tracking her in the first place. No kill occurring and doctor claiming to have saved me then would mean two means two things, A) That the person I tracked to a no-visit is likely town and clear and B) That I have another nights worth of tracking tonight in which I can clear/confirm Farside if needed.

3. It's not WIFOM at all and you would be idiotic to attempt to shrug it of as that. With no night kills occurring, claimed confirmed masons and a roleblocker in the setup with the addition of a doctor bussing would be sub-optimal and stupid as it would result in corning yourself into a small suspect pool.

[Regfan]

Regfan, coming in here pushing for a massclaim when you yourself passed up the opportunity to be confirmed town in order to retrack poro is hella fishy.

It's post like this which actually aggravate me, you haven't attempted to state what part of mass-claiming is bad despite me putting forward overwhelming evidence showing that it's actually very optimal to do so. Instead you're attempting to instead pass it of and call it suspicious.

[Regfan]

I've checked the flash multiple times and haven't seen anything about non-killing mafia factions. If others could check that'd be great. If it can exist, that might explain the 14th player

The definition of a mafia janitor in the flash indicates that it can only be used in conjunction with a night-kill therefore the addition of the role proves that mafia do indeed have a night kill. The 14th player was purely added to skip the massive queues in mini normal/mini theme and jump straight into large games I believe.

[Regfan]

That said, I think a massclaim should be left up to the Doctor. They have enough information to know how many people they have cleared.

Way I see it is this. If worst case scenario has occurred and the doctor has only saved clears then we can assue that Farside/Masons/Doc are clear/town we have 6 suspects and three/four lynches to nail them with, lets call them A, B, C, D, E, F, for the sake of simplicity I'll call myself A, Farside X and doctor Y.

Day 4:

Unclears remaining: A, B, C, D, E, F.
Lynch B.

Night 4:

Unclears remaining: A, C, D, E, F.
Y on X. X roleblocks C. A tracks D. Optimal scum play would be to shoot Y allowing them a chance to shoot X the following night.

N4i. If a kill occurs C is cleared.
N4ii. If kill doesn't occur then another ML is gained and C is lynched.
N4iii.If a kill occurs and D no visited D is clear.
N4iv.If a kill occurs and D visited the kill D is confirmed mafia.

Day 5:

Unclears remaining: A, E, F.
If N4ii, C lynched. If N4iv, D lynched. If N4i or N4iii, A is lynched and C/D are cleared.

Night 5:

Unclears remaining: E, F.
X on E. If a kill occurs then E is clear and F is confirmed mafia. If no kill occurs town lynch E, X roleblocks F that night and they lynch him the following day.

[Regfan]

VP, do you believe there's only one mafia remaining? If so you should recognize that mass-claim actually puts us at an automatic win position.

[Regfan]

Could be one or two scum left depending on PR balance. You seem awfully certain. Further, I don't see how massclaim puts us in "automatic win" when any number of roles could be scum or town. In other words, even

if

you confirm a role action, it doesn't make you town. Now, juxtapose that with having like four lynches left before lylo and you should be able to easily see why I think not claiming gives a greater opportunity to lynch scum. You're also giving PRs more opportunities to use their roles and catch scum read handed. Seems pretty simple to me.

1. I'm relatively certain of it being one due to the last Flash Mafia having three mafia and ending in a clean sweep, that along with the fact that 10-4 wouldn't be balanced even if there were an extreme amount of power-roles.

2. I have pointed how how it is automatic win. If there's one scum remaining that automatically clears Fate and Llarmable, furthermore since it's claimed that Llamarble was roleblocked N2 and therefore that wasn't the case of no-death there's a confirmed doctor in the setup. This means just alone we have 3 guarenteed clears out of the remaining ten players.

3. I have never attempted to state my role action clears me or makes me town, notice inside the plan I have myself getting lynched? So how about instead of attempting to attack the plan you actually read through it? Further, although I myself may not be clear, me tracking someone to no one when a kill occurs does clear them, and with one mafia remaining even if I were to be mafia the clearance would be legitimate, the same goes for Farside and roleblocking claims.

4. PR's are much more effective when organised, controlled and directed especially when the pool of suspect players are narrowed down.

[Regfan]

Farside, I never said it clears him if there's two scum. I said I'm assuming and believe that there's one scum remaining and therefore him not visiting increases the likelihood he's town significantly. Mafia cannot afford to not send in a kill because doing so leads towards more mslynches gained and therefore drastically decreases their chances of winning.

Had you actually read the suggestion and reasoning behind the mass-claim and managed to have the ability to look at plans objectively you would have realized that mass-claim is actually significantly better than not doing so at this point in the game however you seem content to continue ignoring my points and tunnel on.

---

Fate, Llarmable, Farside, Shafted, Elibereth and Porochaz (Assuming no mafia ninja) are almost undoubtedly town. That leaves scum to be one of Agoti, VP, Mastin and Spring. I have relatively weak town-reads on AGOTI and VP right now though both need to provide more content thus I need to read into Mastin and Spring later tonight.

[Regfan]

What prey tell is the relatively weak town read you have on AGOTI and what changed from yesterday?

Interactions with Parabollocks at day start doesn't read as mafia on mafia, yes. I know it's weak but it makes me feel uncomfortable enough with her lynch to not want to do it today and her attitude today doesn't read as defeatist scum.

[Regfan]

There is no fucking doc. Kill Vp

So mafia decided to just no-kill on N1 and N2?

[Regfan]

Wait what about N3? Do you know something there about N3 Regfan?

No, Fate was implying that VPB was mafia because there's no doctor and he was roleblocked which wouldn't explain N1/N2 at all.

---

Just re-read, feeling better about Spring and still prefer a non-agoti lynch inside that pool. Mastin or VP it is.

[Regfan]

On a weak tell? Tell me something town that AGOTI did that was not following, talking about this game and I swear if I find out in a few minutes she's actively lurking I'm not letting this go. What reasons do you have for Spring, Mastin or VP?

Agoti:

Her attempting to push the mass-claim yesterday read as a town-tell to be quite honest, it is and was optimal play and I don't see her attempt to suggest it as scum because as I've pointed out it puts scum in auto-loss. I've already gone into her interactions with Para making me doubt the read, the only thing holding me back from calling Agoti a strongish town-read is her lack of real content.

Spring:

Her aggression and attempt to take command with the "You have two posts" isn't what I predict mafia would be like in this scenario, they would know they're down numbers massively and therefore rather than creating enemies and trying to be authoritative and taking command I imagine them fence sitting and waiting for a mslynch to present itself. There's a few more reasons behind the town-read on her but I rather not go into it just yet if you don't mind.

Mastin:

I actually had a town-read on Tajo, quite a strong one but Mastins complete avoidance of this threat is incredibly worrying and I'm not exactly sure what to make of it yet thus the movement of the Tajo slot from Town to Null/Slight Scum.

VP:

I actually found his few entrance posts to read as a town attitude but looking at his catch up post(s) it's not making much sense at all. He states that he has bad feelings about Llarmable and recognizes that he's a mason claim with Fate one of his town-reads yet doesn't move Llarmable into his town-reads. Sure, this would be nothing if he hadn't read into their claim deeply however considering he asked if they were confirmed town to each other and got a response his reluctance to outright call Llarmable town is suspicious.

Enjoy. I would consider voting VP here but I want Mastin to post before an lynch goes through.

[Regfan]

It does not auto loss for scum if there is 2 scum out there today and they want to out the doctor. Unless you can tell me for fact there is 1 scum out there for reason's that is not out guessing the mod then I welcome lynching you today.

Show me a game with 13-14 players that involves 4 scum and I'll change my mind because I've gone through near 20-30 without seeing a single one like that.

As for Para/AGOTI interaction your going to have to explain what interaction that was.

Both of their first posts. Yes, I openly admit it's weak.

Lets call a spade a spade her. She hasn't said shit about the game. She left her vote on Llama day 2 and disappeared. Left her vote on someone else that was not scum day 3 and disappeared. She hasn't said why VPB is scum and if you consider buddying a town tell I again would like to lynch you right now.

1. This is true, her content has been severely lacking, did you not read me saying that her lack of content is the only thing holding me back from calling her a strong town-read.
2. She HAS said why VPB is scum, read her MASSIVE case that she put together yesterday.

[Regfan]

Regfan: I can't recall ever being in a 14 player game. You have been in one to tell me for sure that 3 man scum team is normal I would listen. Considering the last game I saw 13 had 3 I was expecting wtih 14 players 3 scum and 1 SK when I started. However the lack of kills this game has 3 to 4 scum player team.

1. Flash Mafia 1, (Day start) - 14 players, 3 mafia, weak mafia pr's, weak town pr's. Town just win.
2. Flash Mafia 2 (Day start) - 14 players, 3 mafia, couldn't find the exact roles for living players though. Mafia easily win.
3. Desert Mafia (Night start) - 15 players. 3 mafia, weak mafia pr's, weak town pr's. Town won easily.
4. I've never seen a mini normal involving 4 scum, I have seen 3 scum and a SK but addition of a SK rather than an extra mafia member is considered town-sided oddly enough.

[Regfan]

Uh, what. I looked at both Flash Mafia #1 and #2 up and both are classified as Large Normal/Large Theme, the minimum number of players for a Large game is 14 so how exactly did that work and here's the Desert Mafia that I played.

[Regfan]

Farside - Why would I track AGOTI to begin with?

[Regfan]

You had her on a weak town, null and scum list. Any reason you would not track her?

Yes, despite you showing a game with 4 mafia in it I still believe this is three and rather track people more likely to be mafia ie. Mastin.

[Regfan]

Ugh. Llarmables still probtown, he was roleblocked N1 and I see no reason why mafia wouldn't be using their janitor shot N1, ie. Amrum would have sent in the kill. No masons means that there's a lot less town power than I anticipated meaning three scum rather than four is even more probable now.

Going for a run, will try and focus on reading through Tajo/Mastin again when I get back. Also this "Farside is weird" bullshit needs to stop, she's town, the sole fact that she actually looked up Desert Mafia to try and find it and evaluate if 3-4 scum are probable further proves that as does the fact that I'm not dead.

[Regfan]

Shafted, myko is V/LA for a week and I doubt Kise will know the answer.

From reading through the Flash I don't think it's possible to have a scum team with no night kill however inclusion of a Saulus, Poisoner or Traitor may explain the lack of one night-kill (Traitor/Saulus being converted or Poisoner poisoning rather than killing) but not the first two meaning, yes there is a confirmed doctor in the setup.

[Regfan]

Farside, my role PM is; I'm a town tracker, each night I can pm the mod who I want to track, I get told who that person targeted. I win with the town when bad guys dead. Alright, here's the boat that I'm in right now. I don't have any super strong scum-reads remaining right now and I'm trying to work this out via PoE. I've gone through the player-list multiple times today trying to collect and organize my town-reads and it hasn't done anything but reduce the suspect poor marginally. Here's what I have:

Sure-fire town:

Fate, Farside, Elibereth, Shafted, Springlullaby.

Remaining:

VPBaltar (I go back and forth on DGB and VP similarly, want him to finish his catch up before I fully judge the slot), Mastin (Read into Tajo and I get a town read still but Mastin needs to post content badly), Agoti (Still slight town), Llarmable (Leaning town but there's something I want to read into about him later though). Porochaz (Not going to lie, I still have some suspicions on though only legit way I can see him being mafia is if he's a mafia ninja).

@Farside - Am I tracking you tonight or elsewhere?
@Llarmable - If VP isn't mafia then who is?
@Eli - I want you to explain your scum-read on me.

Going to try and get some sleep.

[Regfan]

@Regfan: Your reason's for finding AGOTI town is horrible. I think if we lynch AGOTI and she's scum you sure as shit should track me to prove yourself without the BS involved. If she's town then do as you please.

Sounds reasonable.

@VP - As I said. I go back and forth on your slot and have for the entire game, perhaps finish reading through the game?

[Regfan]

Here VP, I'll make it easier for you:

Yeah, I'm not a fan of this DGB wagon. Although she's playing differently to her normal town and scum meta I really don't see her actions being her as scum. She wouldn't hold of lynching Amrum just to have Amrum fake claim something as dumb as 1-shot vig.

Farside and Shafted, you should join me on Zoraster.

Not sold on Zoraster being town from that reaction, I'd have expected him to count the votes on him and notice it's not a hammer as town. Starting to see the DGB case but not going to lie, still prefer a Zoraster lynch. Also, Mastin, where's your catch up post and thoughts?

I still believe doctor claiming and outting their saves is optimal, it provides us with a wealth of information and forces mafia to shoot them tonight nearly allowing tracker, roleblocker and masons to live deeper into the game where they're much more effective.

Llarmable, Fate, Farside, Elibereth and Shafted are sure-fire town and VP makes me feel a lot better about DBGs slot and am leaning town on it again.

VP:

I actually found his few entrance posts to read as a town attitude but looking at his catch up post(s) it's not making much sense at all. He states that he has bad feelings about Llarmable and recognizes that he's a mason claim with Fate one of his town-reads yet doesn't move Llarmable into his town-reads. Sure, this would be nothing if he hadn't read into their claim deeply however considering he asked if they were confirmed town to each other and got a response his reluctance to outright call Llarmable town is suspicious.

Enjoy. I would consider voting VP here but I want Mastin to post before an lynch goes through.

[Regfan]

I don't see what me reading the rest of the game has to do with you flipping in the past five pages, which I have read. In fact, I find it entirely irrelevant. You keep going back and forth. This is true. It's also true that this flop seems to be directly correlated to how popular my lynch is at the time. That's the point I'm making. Any other useless points you'd like to make so I can swat them down?

You're attempting to say that my read on you is completely related to others popularity and agreement with your lynch. Had you read through the previous days there was a period of time where there was 4-5 votes on DGB and I attempted to stop it and move it towards a Zoraster lynch. That should be more than enough to show you that my read on your slot is unrelated to the popularity of your lynch but rather my continually changing read on your slot. Now can you please finish reading up on the game so we can have some form of updated reads and content from you.

@AGOTI - You'll need to explain your vote on Llarmable over VP or anyone else.

[Regfan]

Newer variations of janitor allow them to hide the lynches and night-kills from the town but reading through the definition of the Flash it seems like back then it was on the night-kill. It's still a very strong role as it allows mafia to claim the janitored role.

@ VP - Is that you saying you're done 'catching up' with everything or just that you're ISOing me? I don't deny that I love bussing and distancing but I have the common sense to know when bussing would lead towards an autoloss situation. Further if you want to attempt to bring up some form of meta argument then I strongly suggest you read a few of my scum-games. There's a massive difference between how I play as town and as scum, slightly ashamed to say that have a massive tendency to lurk as scum. If you need links I'm more than happy to provide them.

@ Fate - There's no reason to rush the lynch at all. Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks AGOTI is town though what's your read on Llarmable and Prozacs right now?

[Regfan]

Actually, it's quite the opposite, you're attempt to misrepresent every post I make. Then when I point it out you stop responding to it and instead progress to misrepresenting a new post. Lets just slowly go through the recent occurrences:

- You claim that I'm waffling on my read on you and that the read is determined by the popularity for your lynch.
- I state that my read on you is not determined by the popularity of your lynch but rather my read on you at the same and that it's evident through D3.
- You state that I attempt to distance to as scum and therefore that's what I did on D3.
- I state that although I do distance and buss as scum my play style differences are incredibly obvious to see.
- You state that you don't care about my meta.

[Regfan]

Cool, just ignore all of the rest of the points, that works perfectly well. Oh cool, yeah the fact that I was roleblocked and no death occurred means that I shouldn't have claimed? Yeah, sure. If you were positive or believed I was mafia you would ask doctor to be on Farside tonight and have me tracker her, but instead you rather just push a ML.

Vote: VP Baltar

[Regfan]

If you believe it's faked you'd have no problem confirming it tonight and considering how the previous 1-2 pages have gone you certainty have alternate suspects that you would be fine lynching today if it meant clearing/confirming me tonight.

Nothing is 'crystal ball clearer', heck it's possible you're just bad town but the fact that you're ignoring all of the other points put forward to attempt to push your incredibly flawed logic makes me feel much more secure with this lynch.

[Regfan]

Nah, you're points are pretty irrelevant and you try to bend things to fit your argument. You've been doing it all game. You're kind of like MoI but with slightly less annoying walls. Problem is, I see through bullshit like it's my job. I didn't reply to your other points cause I'm not to interested in arguing with scum about pointless things. You've waffled on me, changed your story throughout this game, claimed for no real reason and have tried to cram meta down anyone's throat who would listen as a way of dulling their senses into looking elsewhere. I'm almost up to page 40 no, so it's not like you can sit there and balk at what I'm saying now as being too out of date to be relevant (as if anything in this game is).

tl;dr - more votes on dis scum here.

1. Just like you saw through MoI's bullshit and my bullshit in Meta Mafia? Oh wait, we were both town. Shit.
2. The points are not 'irrelevant or pointless' they're what you're attempting to base your argument around.
3. I didn't 'claim for no reason'. I was roleblocked and no kill occurred therefore Farside was guaranteed to have stated she roleblocked me and I would have had to have claimed at a later point.

[Regfan]

Oh cool, lets just ignore point 2 and 3 again!!!!

That's fun.

[Regfan]

Seriously, how is Mastin not posting, not even once. The fact we all got a PM saying the day has started is actually a really good point.

@ Eli - Fair enough, I'll track her tonight and clear it all up then.
@ Farside - The fighting with Fate is pointless, please stop, both of you are town and we have this win in the bag.

[Regfan]

I have a bad feeling that Kise doesn't know he's co-modding this game and we're going to be waiting on him and Mastin for a while, means I have time to read into these supposedly bad interactions between Tajo and DGB.

Wait, wait, wait... your not masons?

Correct me if I'm wrong but you believed that one of the two scum flipped was a very powerful role and believed that both Fate and Llarmable were still mason claims yet wanted to vote them. Does this mean you believed there were four mafia with powerful mafia roles at the time, if so care to explain that?

[Regfan]

@ Spring - At this point I may as well track Farside tonight regardless of the lynch or flip. The fact that there's potentially a scum ninja in the setup means my trackings may be pointless otherwise. Also Shafteds "Goon or town-tracker" is perfectly logical especially since there's no Scum tracker in the listed roles in the setup.

Still waiting on Mastin..

[Regfan]

Mastin, just a few questions;

1. If you're reading VP Baltar as a strong scum-read and are near certain that it's impossible to lose this game why haven't you placed a vote on him?

2. What makes you strongly believe that one of Farside and me are mafia? Further, if you're certain enough that I'm town to remove me from the suspect pool why aren't you convinced that Farside is scum?

3. I have Porochaz no visting last night, do you still think he's potential or likely mafia now?

4. Where have you read up to and why haven't you claimed yet?

[Regfan]

Heading to bed so I'll get to this in the morning but I'm leaning heavily towards Mastin being town right now though I strongly disagree with him attempting to say Farside is scum.

[Regfan]

What the fuck, are you serious Fate, you hammer AGOTI out of all people? Fucking waste of a lynch. Scum is one of VP, Llarmable and Porochaz (Yeah, I'm not discounting mafia ninja). Doctor needs to be on Farside tonight, I'm tracking her.

[Regfan]

Yes and you use the rope to hang players are actually likely to be mafia, not fucking town-reads.

[Regfan]

Egg on Farsides face is a positive but I wanted a near perfect win so fuck you.

[Regfan]

Regfan: I meant what I said about AGOTI. If she does indeed flip town (like Fate believes) don't follow me.

Honestly, my thoughts on the setup at the moment is that there's one mafia remaining and it's a mafia ninja giving mafia two power houses. It also means that tracking elsewhere is likely to be pointless so at this point I may as well track you anyway. I don't need doctor on me, if mafia do shoot me it means that the doctor and yourself guarantee live another day/night and therefore are even more easily able to PoE the mafia.

[Regfan]

Honestly, the fact that he's posting elsewhere and not here means nothing at the moment. He just participated in a three way lylo and anyone who knows Mastins play would know that he'd put an extended amount of time focusing on that game rather than one that looks like an almost guaranteed win here.

[Regfan]

I need to get to night and talk with my NEW TRAITOR RECRUIT <333

A confession, awesome. I'm not a tracker, I'm a vig and now you're dead tonight. HEAHEHAHHEHAHAEHAAAAAAAAAAA

This thread badly needs locking, this games going stale.

[Regfan]

Farside visited VPBaltar and assuming three scum remaining it means he's clearing so back to the drawing board.

[Regfan]

This essentially means that N2 and N3 are both confirmed doctor saves now meaning I see no reason why doctor shouldn't just outright claim with their saves at this point. With tracker + roleblocker + doc and the MLs we have it's autowin.

Thanks for stepping in and modding Kise!

[Regfan]

@ Elibereth -

We've gone over this multiple times, I can see 3 scum and a traitor

potentially

being the case but four scum would be way to scum sided. We need a mass-claim today though to fully sort everything out.

@ Shafted -

I have really strong town-reads (Either by their play or role actions) on everyone except Llarmable, Porochaz and Elibereth.

[Regfan]

@ Farside -

Yeah, I found Mastins reaction towards the faked hammer on him to be town despite how illogical and moronic his posts were. Can you at least agree that a mass-claim is optimal and

needed

at this point. If the only PR claims we get are tracker, RB and doctor it's 3 scum not 4 meaning VP would be clear.

[Regfan]

He didn't claim and his reads are crap. A fake hammer that was not a vote when the rules state vote is counted and not hammer does not = town. Also mastin active lurking and lack of reads is not his town meta. For someone who prides himself on knowing people's meta you should look into his.

I already can guess whom will claim doctor, but whatever looks like Llama started.

1. I know his meta really, really well and his play this game doesn't match his town OR scum meta meaning he's playing completely differently which kind of removes the point of metaing him.
2. His reads are always crap, that doesn't make him mafia.
3. The fact he didn't claim makes him obv VT at this point and therefore there's no reason to halt the mass-claiming while waiting for him.
4. I know the doctor too and have known it for a long time. Slightly shocked mafia hasn't nailed them yet.

[Regfan]

Farside, I was in Mirror Mafia (As a hydra), was actually your scum partner and he may have nailed you but he had majority of his other reads wrong there including his read on me. Well I'm not willing to lynch VP, Spring, Shafted or Mastin today so we're going to have to come to some sort of agreement when this MC ends.

[Regfan]

Pretty sure he had Gollum, myself, and I thought he called out Haylen. I really have to look again at everything. But for day 1 that's pretty decent calls. He was night killed that game so I would not call him a VI when it comes to reads.

He had you and Gollum as scum, yes. He had Haylen, me and Floofy (I think that's the accounts name) as almost sure-fire town when we were all scum so yeah, his reads weren't anything special.

[Regfan]

Flinter not Floofy, sorry.

Eli non-town-read has to do with his remarks and his 'push' on Amrum and Zoraster not being as strong as initially thought. He first brought up UT's lurking D1 while claiming Ghost + UT were double lurker scum and proceeded to voting Ghost. With the janitor ability being expected to be used N1 subtly bussing them D1 and fully bussing the janitor D2 is actually a good scum move. Further he brought up that the lurking by UT on D2 may not be alignment indicative when the no-kill when through. Also, he pushed DGB D3 and only just hoped on the Zoraster at the end without stating much reason other than he was lurking. His reads from then onwards included her yelling for VP, Mastin or my death and blood and nothing more. His 'doubting' or suggestion of it potentially being four scum today and not three with no mention of it in the past reads as scum subtly attempting to 'unclear' previously tracked and roleblocked players by bringing up the possibility of them being the scum that didn't send in the kill.

Porochaz (Not going to lie, I still have some suspicions on though only legit way I can see him being mafia is if he's a mafia ninja).

[Regfan]

Farside, putting together a case against you on day one is meaningless and yes, I understand Eli as mafia would mean quite a lot of bussing occurring (Though not as much as you attempt to make it seem). Amrums claim was obviously fake and multiple people pointed that out, I don't see mafia attempting to 'sell' her claim meaning they would have had to have bussed her after that claim occurred. I think a lot of people here would have suggested possible fake-claims, Eli isn't one of them but I don't know him that well so you could be right. The way I read ninja it implies that the ninja *may* be able to work as a hitman as well, it's not definite and I don't plan on voting Poro today at all but merely stating my suspicion towards him. I'm waiting for the MC to end before I out the rest of my thoughts.

[Regfan]

@Shafted -

Way I see it doc is very obvious and has been for a while, odds are mafia do hit them tonight and I want the information they have from their saves even if it is just Farside and myself saved.

[Regfan]

@ Farside - Please don't go full retard on me now. If VP is mafia he

has

to have a partner meaning there's no reason not to hunt for his partner now plus I strongly believe we're dealing with three scum making him clear. A mass-claim would sort that out very easily because Tracker+Doc+RB only means three scum and surely you can agree with that.

@ Shafted - I know mafia has failed this long but I've counted and there's only three unclaimed people (Three people who can be doc is what I mean), in that three unclaimed people the doc

is

obvious, sure they may have failed nailing them previous nights but I see no reason not outing the doc now. Especially when the doc has confirmed information to out. Who mafia shot even if it's a known clear is something we can work with and of.

@ Mastin - You are the worst played have ever played with hands down. You realize there's no scum tracker, right moron?

Claimed

Farside - Roleblocker
Regfan - Tracker
VPBaltar - VT
Llamarble - VT

Implied Claims

Mastin2 - Non-doc (Assuming VT)
Porochaz - Non-doc (Needs to claim)

Unclaimed

Ellibereth (Needs to claim)
Springlullaby (Needs to claim)
shaft.ed (Needs to claim)

[Regfan]

@ Shafted -

Porochaz visited no one N2 meaning mafia already know he's not doctor and likely is a VT. Mastin didn't claim when at L-1 meaning he's not doctor and likely is VT. So as I said the pool of who the doctor is includes three people with the doctor being obvious.

[Regfan]

Sorry, I felt bad for them especially since the doctor already claimed a long time ago

[Regfan]

Vote: Elibereth

[Regfan]

@ Farside -

I'm willing to compromise, we don't lynch Eli today but he dies tomorrow if/when you're wrong again. Deal?

@ Llarmable -

Wouldn't it be more fun if you nail the final scum yourself rather than brainless lynching?

[Regfan]

@ Shafted -

Waiting for Mastin will take quite some time. Is it really that advantageous to have claims halt just for him when it's relatively obvious he's a claimed VT?

[Regfan]

@ Shafted -

Yeah uh, I know it would be and apologize for it but I can't remove it due to [Redacted]. If it's any consolation I was *right* on the doctor and I'm fairly sure Eli is the final scum.

[Regfan]

There, it's gone less complaining and no it wasn't an avatar bet. You can complain about me forcing you to mass-claim all you want but frankly I don't care mass-claim is and was the right move in this situation and Elibereth continues to be the final mafia.

[Regfan]

@ Porochaz -

I don't think I know better than all of you when it comes to most aspects of the game but when it comes to working out if mass-claim is optimal or not I've had

a lot

of practice. Magua can probably confirm (Though he's not in the game) that I'm good at actually breaking majority of open setups via working out when mass-claiming is good and setup breakable, this is one of those positions and Llarmable understands and agrees.

@ Llarmable -

VP claimed VT and is clear. Poro is likely town from the tracking and Spring is town. If it's not you it's either Mastin or Eli and I lean strongly towards it being Eli. You can vote with me if you want, it'd speed this up marginally.

[Regfan]

@ Farside -

The odds of a three saves occuring are low when looking at it but I don't believe it's even close to out of the question. I think the doc save targets will be highly informative though. Do you honestly believe 4 scum is possible with the only town powers being tracker, roleblocker and doctor? Yes or no?

@ Shafted -

Glad I'm entertaining you but you may as well claim now.

[Regfan]

Porochaz-town is starting to grow on me very much and I actually surprisingly agree with Farsides reasoning for Llaramble being town plus Shafted is still obvtown. This is all between Mastin and Elibereth really.

@ Farside -

Trust me, I understand your two scum remaining paranoia given how the nights have occurred but I still don't agree with it. Just please answer me the one question. Do you really believe that with just Tracker, Roleblocker and Doctor in the setup there's four scum including a scum janitor? Yes or no?

[Regfan]

No that would be admittedly mafia sided if those were the only PR's for town.

Awesome. Glad you can agree on this much. If we mass-claimed and there's no other PR claims or one more incredibly weak one VP would be clear. Lets say we then lynched Mastin today and he flipped town who would your two biggest suspects be?

[Regfan]

@ Farside -

Yeah, I know I need to stop considering mafia ninja (Well Poro being it anyway). It was mostly paranoia and remaining suspicion on him but logic and his recent posts make me lean towards him being town very heavily. I'm still waiting for these doc saves to be outted but I think this is won, Mastin or Eli today, the other tomorrow for game over.

[Regfan]

@ Shafted -

It's actually a role that

can

be in the game. Read the definition of vig in the flash. It has just been a lot more fun pretending she failed massively all this time though but if we're going to start attacking reasoning behind reads due to it there's no point continuing the lol-impossible-role-claim charade.

[Regfan]

@ Shafted -

Yeah, I only noticed myself yesterday (Potentially the day before, memory is slightly hazy) when I was reading through the roles looking to see if there was something that prevented all night-kills, also the time when I was reading into mafia ninja ect.

[Regfan]

@ Mastin -

If VPBaltar is scum he

has

to have a partner being one of Llarmable, Elibereth, Porochaz, Shafted and yourself. Assuming you're town you have a one in four shot of nailing his partner, proving that there's four scum and making tracker and roleblocker completely effective. Assuming that there is only one mafia left and this is some town sided setup which I don't think Tracker + Doc + RB is vs Jan + 2 more scum is then one of those four would be the final mafia. Essentially we should be lynching in the pool, not VPBaltar so kindly unvote and actually start stating your thoughts on those four.

PS: Shafted, you can claim now.

[Regfan]

@ Mastin -

I'll make it easy for you. If there's four mafia VP HAS to have a partner. IF there's three mafia VP is town. So no matter what one of those other names are mafia. So vote one of them instead of VP.

[Regfan]

@ Shafted -

What's your read on Mastin and Elibereth at the moment?

[Regfan]

Uh.

What.

[Regfan]

Okay. Now I'm confused as fuck and going to bed, I'll get to this in the morning, no quick-lol-lynches while I'm asleep please.

[Regfan]

Three scum and a Saulus with the only town PRs being a tracker and a roleblocker? Nah, not happening, someone has claimed VT as doc. Only logical explanation that I can think of.

[Regfan]

I don't see the point of it either but it's possible the doctors scared of claiming due to it leading towards their inevitable death. I'm struggling to think of an alternate possibility. Also Shafted, Farside is clear unless you think she's a third party survivor that can roleblock.

[Regfan]

The Doc not claiming now would be very very stupid. Scum can now use the "oh I didn't want to out myself" approach to fake claiming doc since we have a swath of VTs.

Easily preventable. Doctor on me, I track doctor. I either clear or confirm doctor. Meaning if there is a doctor they

need

to claim now. Are you suggesting that Llarmable no killed N2/N3? He knows better than that to be honest. Sigh this really isn't adding up.

[Regfan]

If we legit get no doctor claim this is confirmed three mafia setup and it means that there's a guarenteed no kill occuring on N2 and N3. This means we have:

Clears

: Farside, Regfan, VPBaltar

Unclears

(1) Elibereth
(2) SpringLullaby
(3) Shafted
(4) Llarmable
(5) Porochaz
(6) Mastin

We lynch (1) Farside roleblocks (2), I track (3). Mafia are forced to shoot Farside to prevent no kills and more clears occurring in future days. If Farside dies and (3) no visits both (2) and (3) become clear leaving us with three unclears (4, 5 and 6) and three lynches (7 alive tomorrow, lynch, kill 5 alive, lynch, kill 3 alive). If mafia no kill then we lynch (2). Farside roleblocks (3) and I track (4). Same situation occurs again. Following this plan exactly puts us in autowin but to speed it up we can vote on the order of the six unclears.

Now I can sleep.

[Regfan]

Oh and I want Shafted and Spring to be (5) and (6). The order of the other four I don't care for that much.

[Regfan]

Yeah, I really thought it was Spring but Eli is right last night mafia

should

have had it narrowed down to very few realistic doctor candidates. I've played a lot of games with janitor elsewhere and it's a common occurrence to use the power night one so personally I don't think Llarmable was roleblocked then. That essentially means that Spring was saved and is clear.

Clears:

Farside, Regfan, VPBaltar, Elibereth, Spring.

Unclears:

(1) Shafted, (2) Llarmable. (3) Porochaz, (4) Mastin.

Four unclears and we have four lynches, we don't even need to coordinate night actions for this to be a guaranteed win if there's one mafia left. We need to be slightly more careful if there's two scum though because then VP moves out of the clear section so we should still attempt to organize actions. Farside mind taking over, I'm going back to bed.

[Regfan]

Farside, you're guaranteed to live until tomorrow since Elis saves lasts two nights and you were saved last night. This means you do not need to announce who you're roleblocker, nor do I need to out who I'm tracking because Eli will be on me. What we CAN do though is split the unclears into two pools, you roleblock someone from Pool A and I track someone from Pool B. You can organize the pools and who we lynch today though, I'm still feeling slightly embarrassed about having the doc-read off :/.

[Regfan]

Farside, what's your thoughts on mafia having a mafia ninja rather than four scum? It would *balance* the setup a lot more than four scum would.

[Regfan]

Again I read the flash and it said the ninja can also bypass a doctor and a roleblocker ability as well as not be tracked or watched. Why would the scum if they had that ability not use it? Don't tell me they would not use it either.

It says they *may be able to*, it doesn't' state that they guaranteed can, again I just think it makes sense in the setup (Not saying that Poro is mafia due to it) just that it's inclusion is possible and would remove the possibility of four scum if true. Honestly, I think the doctor *randoming* between you and me is the best move tonight, that way whoever it saves is guaranteed to live for another two nights and mafia won't know which one of us are able to be shot later down the line.

I'm perfectly fine with lynching Mastin at this point despite having a town-read on him previously, I think we have this game on lock down PoE wise and I still don't think Spring or Shafted are mafia leaving it having to be one of Mastin, Porochaz or Llarmable.

I honestly think Llarmable is the smarter roleblock than VPBaltar, if Mastin flips town and a kill goes through it would clear Llarmable if this is three scum and if it's four scum I *might* track the scum submitting the night-kill because I'll be *random* tracking between Porochaz, VPBaltar and Spring.

[Regfan]

Farside, I'm reading that very differently than you are. I read the

may also be able to

as it stating potential for him to have that ability but not it being compulsory. Anyway this is a pointless argument, we're not lynching Porochaz today anyway and the plan that we have in place should put us in a guarenteed win position as long as you're willing to roleblock Llarmable tonight rather than VPBaltar.

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

[Regfan]

@Regfan: Are you tracking Shaft.ed tonight?

Oh, I forgot about him. Add him to that list that I had and I'll *roll a dice* and track one of them, that's all that needs to be said on the matter. So you're cool with roleblocking Llarmable tonight? If so we can get this lynch rolling.

[Regfan]

You have yourself a deal, you roleblock Shafted and I'll *randomly* track one of Llarmable, VPBaltar and Porochaz. Elibereth can *randomly* save one of us tonight and doesn't announce which one of us are saved at any point. Lets go.

[Regfan]

Why are you tracking players that we have either RB'ed or tracked when you just got through telling me not to do that?

If there's three scum it's automatic win no matter what our role actions are therefore optimal play is to use our role actions to guarantee a win in worst case scenario being four scum, randomly tracking in all of the people who would be *unclear* if there's four scum is the best play I can see.

Essentially if Mastin flips town and there's a kill tonight and I haven't tracked Llarmable we would lynch him. If he flips town then there's a guarantee that there is either two scum remaining or a mafia ninja around. If it's two scum remaining my track tonight would be useful and if there's a mafia ninja around none of my trackers would be useful anyway.

[Regfan]

I really, really want to hit you right about now. I have been arguing about that with LM for the past fucking hour!

The major difference between what you and Llarmable were arguing about and this is that the use of a tracker is different to that of a roleblocker. Anyway I'm not in the mood to get into a massive theoretical discussion about it.

[Regfan]

I am targeting Spring tonight, he is unconfirmed.

[Regfan]

Also his avatar looks cruel so the odds he's mafia increases.

[Regfan]

oure really bad at this WIFOM stuff you know

WIFOM? I'm just doing what Farside wants me to.

[Regfan]

Since were waiting. Regfan; Since I RB'ed you night 2 and we know the doctor protected Fate Night 2. Why would the mafia kill Fate Night 4 if they are looking to kill the doctor?

Hmmmm. At that point the only person that could have been *saved* was Ythill or Fate. If Ythill was *saved* N1 they have no reason to shoot at him again N2 meaning yes, they either shot at Fate knowing he was not-doc (Which makes no sense) OR they were roleblocked N1 and shot at Ythill N2 making Llarmable mafia.

Your thoughts?

[Regfan]

A hammer would be nice. I'm off for two days though I'll make sure to

log in and send in no action like the mafia have been doing

send in my track before night ends if the game doesn't end with the hammer.

[Regfan]

Claiming 4 scum points to inattentive town. I mean, townie genius...amirite!

Hi obvious scum! We're lynching you tomorrow!!!

Thanks for hosting this Myk, it was a really enjoyable game overall and I'm happy with the win, the doctor really dominated though so congrats Eli. I'm interested in seeing that mafia QT, would be lol if they just all forgot to send in kills N1/N2/N3.

[Regfan]

Scum shot Ythill N1 (protected), fate night 2 3 and 4. Since Fate was protected N2, kills on N2 and N3 didn't go through.

LOL
LOOOOOL
LOOOOOOOOOOOL
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[Regfan]

why didn't N3 go through?

Eli wasn't a doctor, he was a white mage. If he targets someone they can't be night killed the night it's used

and

the next night.

[Regfan]

Yeah but too be fair mafia have a janitor

and

a mafia ninja so I was essentially useless at mafia-catching and was only able to confirm-self with my power.