Open 329: Mayo Clinic D3: Town WINS!

[glowball]

That did hurt my feelings!

OMGUS because you hurt my feelings AND I don't have any noodles!
VOTE: Maruchan

[glowball]

Um...no
because now the card is all soggy because you put it on top of the noodles. GOSH MARUCHAN!

[glowball]

Give me something better than that

[glowball]

So VitaminR, are you claiming that as your RVS or is that serious? Answer carefully your early town status attempt already has my senses tingling

[glowball]

OKay so:
attempted town status failed
Then you distanced from it by calling it a conversation starter
Then vote me for my obvious lack of belief in your attempted town status (OMGUS variation)
Then a response to my heightened sense of awareness of your actions was trivializing sarcasm

You've been noted.

NINJA'D

1-You can find this information on the wiki
2-Well are we talking game breaking strategy? I mean there are lots of ways we can try to fix this seeing that we have 6 doctors for protection but it also allows for scum to claim vig and then if we protect them, they dont have a chance to die and we if we dont protect the outed vigs we risk losing them at night. If we try to lynch the scummiest of the vig claims then we risk lynching an actual vig. So NEVERMIND...at this point I don't see any reason why that would be a good idea.

[glowball]

glowball if you find vitamin scummy why are you not voting? Your suspicions seem more than slight which i really see as the only reason you woulnd't vote this early in the game.

I prefer to see where my vote is best placed first. Just because Vitamin is scummiest right now doesn't mean that someone won't come in with an even scummier reaction/comment to the interactions between us as players. We'll see where things fall- and another thing: I vote when I feel the need. My vote is still in RVS. No one will force my hand.

[glowball]

Um...No for the claiming. thanks for trying though

[glowball]

I generally have a bad feeling about claiming- I just don't like it and I think that there are several ways for it to go wrong and cripple town a whole lot more than scum. You are putting us at an even bigger disadvantage by giving scum the only information that they don't have which are the exact placement of PRs. Also, you can vote all you want if someone isn't on board they can lie and mess up the whole thing...don't test me, I've been known to lie during these pushy claim situations. OH AND GUESS WHAT? Town won in that game perfectly after we spent pages discussing claiming for it all to fly out the window.

[glowball]

Actually I don't have to do better than that. Every plan has faults HELL you couldn't even adequately explain what would happen with all of the claims, so you cannot hold me to a standard of disproving them until you have sufficiently proven them. Like I said, if you don't have everyone on board especially the PRs you want outed then your plan doesn't work at all.

[glowball]

ah now we are talking. I don't like your plan, and I don't sheep you so I must be scumz. Glad to know how quickly you threw your plan out of the window

[glowball]

izak we were scumz together-- sheeping really? are you scumz? I'd like to see town izak

[glowball]

Hey that tell is completely wrong Hard Boiled, I did the exact same thing as town- I didn't want to participate in a claim with no other reason besides it probably wont work. I mean at least if you going to rely on scumtells make sure you have good ones.

[glowball]

There are 4 anti-roles if I am counting correctly resulting in a possibility of 2 kills (1 from the scum faction, 1 from the SK)
2 vigs.

What do you do with 6 claims?
and 4 kills out of that same group-- you still don't know who is who and OBVIOUSLY your reads are off so I doubt that you'll be able to direct the nightkills properly

[glowball]

OR they start taking out protective roles first? If scum skates under your radar they won't be targets, although 6 claims is a bit much 4/5 claims would be more reasonable. You guys are under valuing the doctors in this set up and having them not protect anyone and let the night kills go ridiculous how does that help? Not to mention, your plan takes a slight numbers change when you mislynch because someone doesn't agree with your plan. Let's see

You can lynch me and if I am a vig, then you are down one for that plan
You can lynch me and if I am a doctor, then you are down one protection where at least the doctors could all protect each other 3 for 3

[glowball]

There is a mafia doctor, with you directing kills all you've caught with this plan is NK WIFOM.

[glowball]

You guys obviously cannot read people- and because of that I am done with you until someone with some sense comes into the mix

[glowball]

V V G G SK

D D D D D D MD

Vig1 shoots Vig2
Vig2 shoots Goon1 (who was knowingly protected by MafiaDoctor)
Goon1 pretends to shoot Goon2
Mafia kill a Doctor from the pool
Any smart SK won't shoot from the that pool because it narrows things down even further SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Sk shoots a doctor as well
oh yeah and the lynch which will most likely be a doctor because if you get someone up to L-1 they claim and people probably wont lynch a vig

So 1 Doctor dead by lynching
1 doctor dead by mafia
1 Doctor dead by SK
1 Vig dead by Vigging
No mafia dead

D D D

V G G SK

MD

Now from that pool of claims you still have 5 people and only 1 vig spot left, so you choose to lynch from there because the anti-town probability is higher
YAY YOU LYNCHED SCUM

So into the night

D D D

V G SK

MD

Mafia doctor protects the last goon
Mafia kill another doctor
Vig cannot succeed in killing from the pool because of the bulletproofSK and the goon being protected. So he should shoot for the mafia doctor, but he fails

2 More doctors dead

D
V G SK
MD

OH and you guys lynch SK wooohoooo

Oh but snap MD protects Goon, Goon kills last doctor- Vig kill fails

By morning
V MD G
Mafia Win

Claims do not increase chances of winning in most cases they just make the game more systematic. You still have to have accurate lynches and reads on other players which you guys aren't demonstrating so NO I cannot get behind a lynch ochestrated by people who have horrible scumdar.

[glowball]

That is just one way of many- but me doing THAT helps scum more than town, you guys should really work it out yourselves. AND DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT CHANGING THE PLAN DAY 2 if you don't succeed. Why?! Because you never laid out a concise plan- you laid out a jumbled up plan and now I've shown you how that can go wrong. Give me a concise step by step plan and I'll show you how that can go wrong as well

If scum are smart then yes... you just made me lay out a plan for them

[glowball]

It's all NK WIFOM with confirmation- and doctor train won't work since you don't know who the mafia doctor is. I can outline ways to get around this but it doesn't help town for me to keep giving scum ideas.

You have to remember that the Mafia Doctor will be in that doctor pool and can choose to WIFOM when you have plans and expectations like this. HELL they can choose to frame another townie by strategic killing or no killing.

[glowball]

glowball, we cannot have a concise plan because it all hinges on the vig claims, and later, the NKs. But the planning we have done is more than sufficient for now.

Of course there is a way for it to go wrong, but that is meaningless. I challenge you to find a plan that could not possibly go wrong... No? Didn't think so.

Pointing out individual flaws in a plan while having no good reason for it to fail is VERY anti-town. I suppose you are trying to instruct your scukbuddies, in case you don't get to talk to them again. And unless you change your mind, you won't.

THAT IS MY POINT EXACTLY. MOST PLANS CAN GO WRONG AND ALL THIS PLAN IS TRYING TO DO IS MAKE THINGS MORE SYSTEMATIC FOR YOU WHO ARE LAZY. IT DOES NOT INCREASE YOUR ODDS OF SUCCESS BECAUSE YOUR READS STILL HAVE TO BE ACCURATE WHICH THEY OBVIOUSLY AREN'T

In other news... found scum

[glowball]

BBmolla, I sure hope at the end of all this you have good reasoning or that you are an alt of someone I've already blacklisted because it isn't in my nature to want to blacklist newbies

[glowball]

So what happens when one of the vigs doesn't kill their target? either that person is Mafia or their target is SK?
WRONG Mafia Doctor could choose protect someone just so that they don't die to frame another player

Also, iirc BBMolla first said that Doctor's wouldn't be protecting anyone from that pool now he's going with the Doctor Train so now you are directing the doctors to protect specific people? You are making it too easy for scum seriously because guess what EVENTUALLY you'll have to find the MafiaDoctor in that pool of doctors and if he doesn't choose to kill his own target and instead mafia keep killing who their fake vig claim is supposed to kill then they've got virtual confirmed status.

[glowball]

Go for it. Day by day please...

[glowball]

Go for it. Day by day please...

you forgot this...

[glowball]

OKay I said day by day- I want to see how it works when you lynch a vig or a doc Day 1 EACH DAY PHASE and Night Phase

[glowball]

Well, I guess we won't know until end game. I too await to hear what others say, and if they side with you guys and this town pulls out a win I will eat my words and apologize- but I think in worst case scenarios especially considering those of you speaking are obviously horrible with reads or you're scum

[glowball]

As much fun as that spoiler game sounds I think it'd be too chaotic for me.

1 - experience: Completed one newbie game and one newbie ongoing right now. I play IRL all the time.

2 - philosophy: I agree with glowball. Having a vig claim wouldn't help much.

You sheeped my idea about NOT, and now that you've seen me get voted for it your tune changes and you place an opportunistic vote

YOU
ARE
SCUM
VOTE: PiggyGal

[glowball]

Does it matter what I claim? You want to lynch me anyway, no matter what my alignment is because I WILL NOT go with your plan. SO why do you need my claim first?

[glowball]

OH but wait... I could lie when I claim so I'll just stick to not claiming AT ALL. Even at L-1. You guys just get to hammer me because I am over this nonsense

[glowball]

YOU ARE ALREADY LYNCHING ME TODAY--- are you slow?

I already asked what is the point of me claiming anything? I won't claim anything because you guys will lynch me no matter what...

[glowball]

Seems like people got a little more reasonable while I slept. While I don't like BB I don't think he's scum. I still find Piggy scummy, but as I told izak earlier in that game I've played scum with him and his behavior is the same so I could get behind that lynch as well.

oh and ALL IS FORGIVEN
also, HI AND THANK YOU NEIL <3

also, YES I AM EMOTIONAL AND SENSITIVE, it's hard to control especially when I am in other games making me equally as frustrated.

[glowball]

I play because I enjoy proving people wrong and finding scum. Relationships make me frustrated too but I am in no rush to become a nun

[glowball]

I play because I enjoy proving people wrong and finding scum. Relationships make me frustrated too but I am in no rush to become a nun

Relationships make EVERYBODY frustrated. Its why I haven't attempted on for the past 3 years.

HA what a coincidence I was in one for the past 3 years, but anyway that doesn't say much you are only 17...

Back to game talk- It seems I am now not the only one against the claim. Discuss..

[glowball]

I play because I enjoy proving people wrong and finding scum. Relationships make me frustrated too but I am in no rush to become a nun

Relationships make EVERYBODY frustrated. Its why I haven't attempted on for the past 3 years.

HA what a coincidence I was in one for the past 3 years, but anyway that doesn't say much you are only 17...

Back to game talk- It seems I am now not the only one against the claim. Discuss..

You act as if 19 is so much more than 17.

QUOTE PYRAMID!!!!!!!!!!!! Well I'm almost 20!
and when you start saying things like you haven't had a relationship for 3 years those 2 years do make a difference
YOU: 17 minus 3 years= 14 years old, no one really expects you to be seriously dating anyway
ME: 19- 3 years= 16 years old, when dating really takes effect hahahahahahahahaha

[glowball]

So you don't lynch any doctors who let their target die-- so Mafia Doctor protects someone in the vig pool adequately framing another player, and then the mafia kill whoever the MafiaDoctor was supposed to protect because you won't lynch doctors until the end. The end comes sooner, when this is a game of numbers for them...

[glowball]

@BBMolla- I was scummy because I went against a plan, with experience you realize that more often than not scum sheep plans and ideas as to not bring attention to themselves

[glowball]

BBMolla, it's not about laziness- it's about standing my ground in what I believe and I am not the only one that felt that way. I just don't see how explaining how scum could manipu.ate your plan helps town more than scum. However, if you are going to be rude and arrogant you can definitely consider yourself blacklisted in the future because I do not put up with that.

[glowball]

Way to remark on a game you weren't in- there were extreme amounts of pages to read as opposed to this game which is only on page 8 so circumstances are different, but go ahead and be arrogant and stubborn your town read on me means nothing because you started digging your whole the moment you started painting me as scum and if we lose because you chose to muddy up my read on you with arrogance then I'll be just fine with that.

[glowball]

you are shitting me right? GreyICE? OH MY LORD, please don't make me replace out.

I have no problems with him, sorry...if you have a complaint, you can send it by PM.

[glowball]

He's difficult, and I've already made my stance on mass claiming. Stop being lazy and just scumhunt as usual...why is that so damn hard? Also, claiming is not always pro-town BUT I have fair enough reason to believe that BBMolla was doing it with the best interest of the town. Like I said, plans fail when everyone isn't on board. I am not on board and as long as scum know that they get a free ride to claim whatever goes unclaimed with no counter.

[glowball]

This plan is going down in flames...

[glowball]

I am against it, I don't want it. GreyICE is being just as annoying as before, and we should just drop the whole thing. It just sucks that scum get a free pass from me- they'll probably match/over number the town long before it's lylo since we'll be killing off ourselves.

[glowball]

Also because GreyICE thought he could claim for me, which I find funny since he doesn't have my role pm.

[glowball]

The fact that you think that just shows me how little protection I need. I am an easy lynch for scum they don't need to night kill me, it's part of my playstyle some of you find me less than favorable they can see that so they keep me around because they know I am against the plan and probably an easy lynch down the line. Wanting or not wanting doctor protecting is a null tell because you would only need doctor protection if you were worried which I am not.

[glowball]

Good now drop the topic completely.

glow stop trying to act like every role and using WIFOM reasons against us saying you are probably not vig, if you are going to play around then i would prefer you dead than have you mucking around to look like vig when you might not be, if you are going to do it claim one way or another.

You are right. GUYS I concede, I'll follow anything you have to say now... I am sure this plan will be awesome!

[glowball]

I never said YOU said anything about the plan, but it's silly for me to keep fighting against it. You guys are right and I'll just shut my mouth and mind my manners. Guide me powerful newbs to a victory while scum sheeps your ideas and manipulates them.

Yeah there was some sarcasm, but whatever. I am done talking about it, do whatever you guys want my resistance is over.

[glowball]

You are right Thomith, I don't care about the plan I am just tired of talking about it so do whatever you guys need to do and I hope it works for you.

[glowball]

Ever heard of fight for what you believe in? if you don't like something why are you giving in that easily? Why do you see no good in the plan, what would you propose instead?

oh these questions, I thought they were rhetorical...

I did fight for what I believed in. I am not necessarily giving in I just don't want to talk about it anymore.

There is good in the plan, but it can also go wrong and I've already said what I propose: I PROPOSE YOU GUYS STOP LOOKING FOR AN EASY WAY OUT UNDER THE GUYS OF A PLAN THAT IS NOT FOOL PROOF AND IS ONLY SYSTEMATIC. IT DOES NOT INCREASE OUR ODDS. JUST SCUM HUNT AND STOP BEING LAZY.

[glowball]

DAMN IT!

I meant under the GUISE*** of a plan....blah blah blah

[glowball]

OMG ISO'd Thomith... in other news: YOU ARE SCUMZ.

I was so distracted and not even paying attention to you, hell I even enjoyed you for a moment there...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thomith

[glowball]

I don't think I should claim... I have a habit of lying when forced to claim in these situations. Also, given that I will most likely lie because I don't agree I can foresee myself being lynched at end game because you refuse to believe me then. You might as well lynch me today, and I do support Neil being against this plan. I am not letting you guys bully me into this, but without 2 claims you've got scum open to successfully claim our slots. BRAVO.

[glowball]

I am not claiming just because you guys want me to. I play games with the natural course and if I had known beforehand that I was playing with lazy people then I wouldn't have joined. I joined for the set up not to mass claim and try to break it. I HATE CLAIMS. Hell, I hate claiming at L-1 in normal games but it's what is done. I thought about replacing out, but I am here to play. Nothing about my play is against my win condition. YOU KNEW I was against this and went ahead with it anyway. It probably is in your best interest to just lynch me. You don't care about my opinions you guys are just pushing your own agenda.

[glowball]

You know what's even funnier, scum don't even have to all claim vig they could just hide in the doctor pool with only 1 or even none of them claiming vig. Then you direct the vigs to kill who? the scummiest players remaining and if your reads are off then so is the game. They could no kill because if I was scum I'd no kill and just use the mafia doctor to frame other players without limiting down the pool. It'd be a game of patience for scum if they had it but it's definitely possible.

[glowball]

I did fight for what I believed in. I am not necessarily giving in I just don't want to talk about it anymore.

There is good in the plan, but it can also go wrong and I've already said what I propose: I PROPOSE YOU GUYS STOP LOOKING FOR AN EASY WAY OUT UNDER THE GUYS OF A PLAN THAT IS NOT FOOL PROOF AND IS ONLY SYSTEMATIC. IT DOES NOT INCREASE OUR ODDS. JUST SCUM HUNT AND STOP BEING LAZY.

Glowball, for what it's worth, my initial reaction to the plan was very negative. I like to play games the way they were meant to be played, even if that can be difficult. One thing that swayed me is the fact that this set-up is pretty much going to turn into a killfest without some sort of plan like this and not like a game of careful scumhunting or anything. This plan maybe takes away a bit of good old-fashioned scumhunting, but it also keeps the game sane.

Did you read this?

Also, claiming doesn't detract from scumhunting all that much honestly. We still have to figure out whose lying.

I truly suggest you replace out if you're that against it. You are going against your win condition by not claiming.

@post above.

No. If two vigs claim, and everyone else claims doc. We have two "lynches" per day. One to whom actually gets lynched(Which we have to SCUMHUNT to find) and the other is who both vigs shoot. This, like the lynch, will be voted upon. The decided target will be left out of the doc train, and because two vig shots go through mafia doc, mafia members are for sure dead. If the person doesn't die they are SK.

And yes, I think a game of nightless is more in town's favor. The less people who die per night the better off we are.

Claiming does not remove scumhunting in any way. It just prevents useless amounts of deaths every night.

No it doesn't, but YOUR READS ARE OFF and you guys will end up killing each other. YES it's more systematic way to pick off other town aligned! You won't be able to find scum that much is apparent by the fact that you wanted to lynch me and are giving the sheep a free pass. I am not saying that the vigs won't be able to kill, I am saying that all scum have to do is play like regular mafia and be so town that you don't even see them, sooner or later you'll just keep picking off doctors and then no one will be left to protect you.

I am not playing against my win condition. I want to win. YOU just want me to win the way YOU want. That is the circumstance you put on the game and no where in the rules does it say I have to mass claim if everyone wants it. You guys are just trying to push me in a direction and since scum have sheeped the idea I am definitely against it.

[glowball]

Also, yeah I read Vitamin's post and I wish he stuck to his guns. Mafia is mafia for a reason, I came to play not be ridiculous. YES there is a lot of killing, but I joined because I liked the set up. I am not refusing to play, I am just refusing to claim which isn't against my win con.

[glowball]

okay GreyICE... whatever you want whatever you say.

[glowball]

Also, yeah I read Vitamin's post and I wish he stuck to his guns. Mafia is mafia for a reason, I came to play not be ridiculous. YES there is a lot of killing, but I joined because I liked the set up. I am not refusing to play, I am just refusing to claim which isn't against my win con.

then go play Newbie if yo udon't liek that different roles force the game to be played in different ways.

Mafia is Mafia? Then go play some cop+doc+JK+town mafia, and you'll play the game you are wanting to play.

Also no one is forcing you to play the game like this. I love new roles, and I love different roles but it's no fun if you guys are too scared/lazy to see how it plays out.

[glowball]

It doesn't benefit the town if you just end up shooting town members! Like I said you thought I was scum for going against the plan, and ignored others completely obviously your reads are off.

[glowball]

It doesn't benefit the town if you just end up shooting town members! Like I said you thought I was scum for going against the plan, and ignored others completely obviously your reads are off.

So you're saying if we don't mass claim we won't end up shooting town members.

No- I am saying it doesn't increase our odds way one or the other. IT JUST MORE SYSTEMATIC! How many times do I have to say that? Or do you not know what that means? Your reads are off which is the second most prominent reason why I am against mass claiming.

[glowball]

Glowball the only read I've given is that you're town.

No...

Actually I don't have to do better than that. Every plan has faults HELL you couldn't even adequately explain what would happen with all of the claims, so you cannot hold me to a standard of disproving them until you have sufficiently proven them. Like I said, if you don't have everyone on board especially the PRs you want outed then your plan doesn't work at all.

K, enjoy your scum PM. If you're not going to try I won't either.

VOTE: glowball

Also, thinking about it,

Serial Killer would put a HUGE risk on himself by claiming vig. It's almost a for sure lynch at some point, so IMO he wouldn't claim.

Mafia don't have day talk, so they'd have the same reaction glowball is having, because they wouldn't know how to handle it.

I think the two vigs claiming is the most likely occurance. Maybe two vigs with one mafia claiming. If that's the case we get one mafia and proceed to doc train.

You called me scum and placed a vote saying that my reaction was a scum reaction....

[glowball]

Point is: Your reads are wrong and I don't trust that you or anyone else can make correct decisions with a plan like this. Mostly I cannot trust the others because they just sheep you.

[glowball]

Your initial read on me was wrong. PERIOD. Just because you took it back doesn't mean that you are obviously bad at reading people.

[glowball]

Why don't you just blacklist me if you hate me so much?

[glowball]

Guess what? I am difficult and my being difficult has caught scum for me on several different occasions. LYING has caught me scum, fighting THIS type of fight has caught me scum. I am not changing how I play for you.

[glowball]

I've been told that before, and I don't believe that Maruchan OR Izak to be very townie right now. I might concede that you are, but there are like 3 MAIN VOICES and 2 of those I don't trust. No one else seems to have as much of a problem as you three. OH YEAH and GreyICE- but he's blacklisted and ignored mostly.

[glowball]

SHE. I have lady parts.

[glowball]

@GreyICE maybe you guys should get better at scumhunting then, instead of trying to break set ups you should just play better.

[glowball]

sounds lovely

[glowball]

I thought you were dropping this Mr.ICE

[glowball]

I am insulting you because I have been insulted. I keep waiting for you to just leave it alone and lynch me already

[glowball]

OH NEIL, please DO something ridiculous! I promise to love you forever if you do! But don't tell them...

[glowball]

double negatives!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why would you apologize?

[glowball]

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW























































































































































































































































































How cute.

[glowball]

Can you just replace out please?

I am here to play, let's do this... on with the show.

[glowball]

I am playing but all of you just keep coming back to me and if you really believe that I am not doing anything you have to think the same of yourself because you are indulging me. PLAY THE GAME and I WILL FOLLOW. I am just not claiming. GET OVER IT. There is more to this game than mass claims. I've placed votes want to ask me about any of those? Want to actually scumhunt?

[glowball]

Okay, I thought you settled on lynching me? What is the problem then?

[glowball]

Okay, I thought you settled on lynching me? What is the problem then?

We have a claims process to work out here.

You go sit in the corner.

^RUDE and UNNECESSARY...

I am playing the game and watching the claiming, you can stop being a control freak now.

[glowball]

You'd like never dying right BB? Whatever, I am playing I am just not playing how you would like me to play. We are wasting time with this whole thing, it's useless.

[glowball]

Cool personal attack bro.

Just a response. If you can't take it, don't dish it out. "Bro."

<3

[glowball]

BBMolla you've been more than immature and rude during this game so you really shouldn't dish it out if you cannot take it. That being said.... why can't we just scum hunt? does anyone want to know why I am voting who I am voting?

[glowball]

Also, Neil am I basically in love with you... just thought you should know.

[glowball]

Also, Neil am I basically in love with you... just thought you should know.

-as Marucha nplans to eliminate Neil-

-cough-
imeanwut?

<3

BBMolla you've been more than immature and rude during this game so you really shouldn't dish it out if you cannot take it. That being said.... why can't we just scum hunt? does anyone want to know why I am voting who I am voting?

Sure!

Uhm, Who are you voting?

I am voting Thomith, you should ISO him there is some shifty business

[glowball]

OKay so we keep mixing plans up...

FIRST you want the vigs to claim and you are living in lala land if you think that you'll get only 2 vig claims.
THEN you say that if you get more claims then there can be a vig chain of them shooting each other to find the real ones, BUT at the same time you want to lynch me and VIG Neil... you can only shoot one person and the fact that you now have to turn 2 of your available kills towards us allows scum some wiggle room. Your plan doesn't work missing two people or at least I haven't seen you account for all of that.

[glowball]

You guys are choosing to go through with this and force claims onto me and Neil, you should really get a hold on yourselves and just stop. You tried to strong arm me into this and just started I just don't care about this plan.

[glowball]

and that is your fault for going forward with a plan that you knew 2 people didn't agree with it.

[glowball]

well now we are here and you guys will mislynch and for scum this is a numbers game all they have to do is make up half and I am sure they are enjoying see us tear each other apart. The plan that you guys want is to waste your first two kills on me and Neil and I know that at least one of those is wrong. Yeah maybe that doesn't matter to you, but it does give scum an immediate advantage that you are willingly picking the town apart because of a disagreement that no one bothered to solve first you guys just went ahead with your plan and expected us to fall in line.

[glowball]

Who says i think you are scum?

I never said that you think I am scum but generally you are willing to sacrifice me.

An attempt to stop this plan halfway through is ten times scummier than trying to stop it happening in the first place.

Also, can somebody tell me what Thomith did?

I tried to attempt to stop it BEFORE it started. You guys just kept going trying to push this on me.

[glowball]

oh and ISO him, it's shifty- but I may be wrong with that quote he quoted I have to read again

[glowball]

I could have sworn I said that your ISO is shifty, it seems opportunistic and sheepy.

[glowball]

I JUST SAID YOU SEEM OPPORTUNISTIC AND SHEEPY, but I am re reading soooooooooooooooooo calm down

[glowball]

No one listens to me anyway, so you are good Thomith

[glowball]

Thomith were you seriously worried about my accusations or are you orchestrating this conversation to bring attention to me? Because I assure you people are already noticing me.

[glowball]

Oh yeah, I forgot Maruchan is now a gentleman. <3

[glowball]

Neil don't bother, they'll just probe you for a claim. I'd rather them lynch incorrectly and be ridiculous.

[glowball]

See you aren't even noticing that Vitamin said he'd rather just scumhunt regularly. GreyICE get off of your pedestal.. that's at least 3 people not participating.

NINJA'D
but yeah....

[glowball]

Cool personal attack bro.

Just a response. If you can't take it, don't dish it out. "Bro."

This is the sexiest post ever, I had a dream about it last night : P

[glowball]

OH goodness, it was a joke.

[glowball]

9 Doctors (2 of which are assumed and not claimed)
1 ""Vig""

2 Claims left: Quaroth and PiggyGal

I doubt that they will claim SK, so you've either got 2 more vig claims, 1 vig claim and 1 doctor claim, or 2 doctor claims.

[glowball]

I am interested in the game, thomith.

and maruchan, you figured all three of those situations? because I don't recall a plan where you only have 1 vig claim, but scum would be GENIUS if they did do that. Just all of them hide in the doctor claims hahahahahahahahahahahaha

[glowball]

I am interested in the game, thomith.

THIS IS ALL THAT IS GOING ON-- ALSO, YOU ARE SUCH A FEELER. ADD THAT TO THE REASON YOU ARE SCUMZ.

[glowball]

I am interested in the game, thomith.

and maruchan, you figured all three of those situations? because I don't recall a plan where you only have 1 vig claim, but scum would be GENIUS if they did do that. Just all of them hide in the doctor claims hahahahahahahahahahahaha

If only one vig claims, a townmember is literally throwing the game.

And yeah what Maru said.

HEY THERE. THERE ARE 2 TOWN MEMBERS WHO REFUSED TO PARTICIPATE. DEFINITELY A CHANCE THAT YOU WILL HAVE 1 VIG CLAIM. THAT IS WHAT YOU GET FOR FORCING OUR HAND. HOWEVER, IF THERE ARE MORE VIG CLAIMS I AM GOING TO LAUGH MY ASS OFF.

[glowball]

Glowball, if you counterclaim anyone after refusing to claim, I will vote for you dead.

It is policy at that point.

You already want me dead, what is the difference?!

and HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA good job guys.

[glowball]

This was fun at first, but I've been threatened with death no matter what I say and to be honest I don't need this loss on my record...your claiming failed and that is all I can say

I need a replacement please....

[glowball]

You are calling me stupid and refusing to take anything I have to say into account, I am trying to tell you that your claiming failed but if I say that I am dead anyway hopefully you'll listen to my replacement and possibly pull out a town win if not I don't need the loss on my record.

[glowball]

I am actually trying to help you guys for the first time, but I know you won't believe me and I'm pretty sure Thomith is scumz. Like I said hopefully you'll believe my replacement and even if you don't you lynch my slot see my flip and realize how ridiculous you guys were being. Exactly why I asked for a replacement you guys are too stubborn to pull out this win.

[glowball]

I'll let my replacement handle this. MY LAST POST.

[glowball]

Hey guys, I talked to the mod and not only is it rude of me to just replace out I don't want my replacement to have to deal with the garbage that comes with my slot so I'll just stick this one out...

[glowball]

GreyICE as long as you are being sarcastic and acting arrogant we are going to bump heads, so the sooner you tune down the attitude and the insults the better this whole thing will be

[glowball]

^This is the arrogance I am talking about, I don't need to be the center of attention. I came back in the game and you immediately started in on me. You are facilitating all of this and if you didn't feel the need to one up me and have the last word it would already be over. Stop with the insults and play the game

[glowball]

You need to grow up, and calm down it is just a game. On top of that I have already made it clear that I am here to play the game. You need to change your attitude because this arrogant and rude behavior isn't going to make this game go any easier. You are just being stubborn. I am no longer saying anything about your plan, what is done is done and you will see it play out. I am just asking that you stop being so rude because cursing and insults are unnecessary and if I have to message the mod about your behavior I will. I have asked you repeatedly now.

[glowball]

^Exactly and if he keeps it up I will complain to the mod. Just get on with the game minus the rudeness

[glowball]

BBMollA THOSE THINGS WERE VASTLY DIFFERENT AND I ASKED GREYICE TO STOP REPEATEDLY. IF SOMEONE JUST KEPT GOING AT YOU WHILE YOU POLITELY ASKED THEM NOT TO THEN I'D FEEL THE SAME WAY. IT IS JUST A GAME.

[glowball]

There is no doubt that you and GreyICE have been the most abrasive players. What Neil did was give you a dose of your own medicine. I have asked you guys to play more politely but you refuse and that is just bad sportsmanship and character

[glowball]

why BB, I gots yo back homie

[glowball]

whoa thomith, isn't that why you want me lynched? and I never said that GreyICE isn't entitled to his opinion but rudeness isn't the spirit of the game and someone his age should conduct himself better. He isn't a child and there is no need for abrasive behavior of that magnitude.

[glowball]

Neil1113 and glowball, could you guys please reconsider claiming? I know it's hard to ignore all the shit that has come your way (GreyICE, seriously, what the fuck?), but, if you ignore that, you have to acknowledge that it is now in all of the town's interest that you claim. We can argue about whether no claims is better than a full claim, but I think you have to agree that a full claim is better than a half-assed full claim. A 2 claimed vigs situation is really different from a 3 or 4 claimed vigs situation and we are going to have find out somehow which situation we're in (and it's not unlikely that scum already knows). I don't want the town to waste lynches or vigs on you when you guys could either help us confirm two players or find scum on Day 2, depending on what situation we're in.

I will acknowledge that NOW because all of you chose to disregard my feelings and go ahead with a plan I was against that you are trying to force my hand because you are starting to realize it could change things.

Fuck this.

Quaroath is still obviously scum.

Glowball wont play the fucking game and let me lynch scum.

vote: glowball

Moderator won't lie about your role, the we can finally get quaroath.

I would have preferred to do this differently but I will trade one fucking useless townie for one scumbag.

I thought that Quaroath was the last "vig" what makes you think he's scum now, and if that is the case why lynch me over the obvscum? Yeah, to you I am useless but scum is still scum.

Thank you Neil for claiming.

Glow do the same, whether you're vig or not changes this game drastically.

I was bullied with no apologies. I expect apologies. Also, I was basically told that it didn't matter what I claimed I'd die either way sooooooooooooooooooo what is the use?

[glowball]

For the first time GreyICE and I agree. I've seen Neil scum, and I love you buddy but you are scumz

VOTE: Neil

[glowball]

No, my apologies need to come from the two too stubborn to do so. Also, I am more concerned with the last part of that quote. I have basically been told to expect death.

[glowball]

but one death is more pro-town than the others. and that involves if you are a vig, claiming vig

what? I AM GOING TO DIE EITHER WAY. I tried to talk to people and that is what they told me.

[glowball]

Thomith you are scummy because of all of it. There is an on going list no hopping back and forth just additions to your scumminess

[glowball]

I appreciate the turn around in attitude <3 <3 <3

My claim: Doctor.

Now let's get on with this sweeties, minus the temper tantrums because I know you are all so upset that I soft claimed just to prove a point. My soft claiming was a gambit, hell my replacing out was a gambit to see reactions, I got the information I need. Neil is scum he needs to go, just tell me who to protect and let's get this game going.

[glowball]

Well I guess now we are back to disagreeing. PiggyGal is perfect vigbait- I am leaning scum on her and I don't like your other nominations at this point.

[glowball]

Also, Neil... before the flip it's considered twilight so even if you were hammered there wouldn't be anything wrong with you talking. The BAH post is in regards to posts after the flip iirc.

[glowball]

This flavor is priceless

[glowball]

Neil, homie, amigo, comrade...

that was fake.

[glowball]

I'm a she, and don't vig me, asshat.

hey now, we just stopped bickering and you came in bitching about all of the bitching so don't start.

[glowball]

IT is not a far stretch to direct Serial Killer shots. They do it in lots of large games with more experienced players, that being said sometimes it is a ploy. Neil should probably go because he definitely isn't playing to his win condition by claiming and if he is that means he thinks there is a way he can win this. Let's just lynch him and get it over with.

[glowball]

Of course you will Maruchan, why stand up for what you believe in? you wouldn't want to bring more attention to yourself than necessary, right?

[glowball]

OKay, I thought about this and yes people CAN direct vig shots, but GreyICE has a point and I am siding with him. Neil needs death today.

If Neil is in fact fake claiming scum and we just trust him until lylo, that may be sooner than you think. This is a numbers game for scum they are trying to overpower us he is 1 extra body count and lynch vote for them. If he is SK he is one more threat eliminated, one more anti town voice silenced.

[glowball]

Think about it like this:
We have 6 Doctor
2 Vigs

1 SK
3 Mafia Aligned(1 Doc)

To prove that Neil is the Serial Killer we would have to have both of our vigs target him, and we would need to direct his shot.

Now, if Neil is fake claiming scum he already knows that if BOTH the vigs target him he sees death so the directed shot probably won't happen. Yes, we would vig scum at night if we followed through with testing, but letting him slide by into the night phase means we probably mislynch today which is what all of you are virtually opting for by trusting him- a mislynch.

If Neil is the serial killer then both vigs target him we forfeit our vig abilities because we waste them on testing Neil, while we direct his shot and hope that he listens. If he does listen, great but he still has his own win condition and a VOTE everyday he is alive, he could come in to hammer and play against us anytime he chooses to. Neil has nothing left to lose or gain if he really is the Serial Killer- he's outed himself.

If we do NOT test Neil at all, we are just stupidly accepting his claim then he really gets a free pass and if he is fake claiming scum we are setting ourselves up for a super fail down the line because as I said before he is 1 more body and voice that is against the town.

Really think about it... you want to let Neil slide, trust him, probably mislynch today, and Neil truly believe that he has NOTHING to gain from this?! At the very least he could just be toying with us and like I said if he is the serial killer he has nothing to lose or gain. He knows he will catch death eventually, the fact that he is even begging town for life knowing that signals to me that he is concerned with the numbers which is what scum care about.

[glowball]

Also, I think that his is definitely a ploy by him. By distracting us Neil (as scum) has successfully pulled any suspicion from his buddies because we are too focused on him.

[glowball]

Thomith, you and anyone else who is for keeping an anti-town role in the game have a lot of explaining to do for to a certain extent. IT IS THE EASY MOVE FOR SCUM TO WANT AN ANTI TOWN ROLE TO STAY IN THE GAME. I already think you are scumz so I really don't care.

[glowball]

ok fine lynch neil today but everyone who is on his wagon will need to do alot of convincing to make me think they are town, and the ringleaders (grey quil oh and you glow) will have their lynches pushed by me and probably others for not accepting a 3rd town shot, we lynch him eventually anyway and WHY WOULD SCUM WANT A VIG KILL ON THEMSELVES, and if he is SK which is highly probable he wants scum dead just as much as we do, and either way WE LYNCH HIM IN THE END BEFORE HIS VOTE CAN BECOME A THREAT.

If he is fake claiming scum then scum probably don't have to worry about being vigged. The reads in the game have been off to a certain extent and with Neil pulling our attention towards him we'll probably mislynch and even if we "direct his shot" it'll be wrong, or it may not happen and then that turns into WIFOM because we are relying on an anti-town role.

And his vote is ALWAYS a threat. It only takes on vote to hammer.

NINJA'D
Serial killers are anti-town, even if Grey is scum and Neil is telling the truth this move doesn't hurt town or scum any more than the other.

Also, I have a disdain for people who think I am scumz only because I disagree. Let's formulate good arguments.

[glowball]

Think about it: We didn't go into claiming thinking we'd have an SK and you guys still made a plan to win, right?! So play like nothing has changed EXCEPT we FOR SURE have a pro-town lynch instead of a mislynch.

[glowball]

Thomith don't start with the insults again. Make an argument, a good one that doesn't hinge on taking personal shots. I have, and the fact that all you can say is that it is an extra shot means you have nothing else. We can win this without Neil even if he is the serial killer. This is not game breaking and he is anti-town at the very least.

NINJA'D
Sorry Neil <3

[glowball]

btw, don't show sympathy for his self vote. He has done it before, just like his "I thought I was hammered post"

[glowball]

Here is the first post when he "thought" he was hammered

Ugh. I'm not scum. End of story. Just finish this, lynch me and get it over with. I'm getting tired of this now. I've come back on, you think I'm dumb enough to try a fake post, and don't even give me the credit to think I was honest, and nobody has still saw the flaw in his logic?

Alright I'm done. I'm not scum, I'm a doctor. Lynch me, and see for yourself. I have no desire to be a part of this town anymore if that's seriously what little respect you give me. Goodbye.

Then his flailing for life.

I'm the

Serial Killer.

I'm not Mafia aligned, so I never lied about that.

I never directly denied being the SK, and nobody ever questioned me as though I was. So I had no reason to lie. I've tried to play townie for long, but Grey's case gave me a headache. I admit the push on Grey was weak... but oh well. The town had no other thing to go on, so I decided to push.

Anywho, it's relevant because I could easily benefit the town at least for a day or two. Having another vig would be better then just flat out killing me off, don't you think? And on top of that, you don't have to waste any doctors on me because I'm not killable at night.

One way or the other Neil should go.

[glowball]

btw, don't show sympathy for his self vote. He has done it before, just like his "I thought I was hammered post"

Wow. Thanks.

It's honest Neil. This is your meta. I applaud you for it, and for the efforts but you shouldn't have given yourself up.

HUGS <3

[glowball]

The arguement is i see no pro-town motivation for turning down a third kill that the town direct, but it is worthless now as the scum have stopped neil from being our third vig so to speak.
quil grey and glow are now my top 3 suspects.

@neil dont just give up, as it is probably the 3 scum being the most mouthy about you helping town.

I swear if Neil flips scum. I WILL TEAR YOU TO SHREDS.

[glowball]

I want Neil lynched.

Vig Bait should be lurkers, scum reads and people who aren't helpful at all(people who it won't matter if we lose, activity wise):

PiggyGal
Whispersilk
VitaminR
Thomith(he's just my scum read)

NINJA'D
OMG NEIL I GET NO LOVE </3?!

[glowball]

OKay? I was just putting my thoughts out there. Why did you feel the need to comment if you have nothing to worry about?

I swear every post I am flipping back and forth on you.

[glowball]

No, but you keep down playing it. So if you don't think it will happen, why do you feel the need to comment?

[glowball]

Did you not read my post because you have yet to answer the FIRST question. WHY DO YOU FEEL THE NEED TO COMMENT since YOU are soooooooooooo sure you won't be vigged? Seriously what were you hopping to gain from that post?

[glowball]

So you would like us to NOT test Neil at all? You want us to blindly follow him? What if he is fake claiming scum?

[glowball]

What if he is fake claiming scum?

What if he isn't?

You just love answering questions with questions. That wasn't your question, but you chose to address it? Why don't you go back and address the questions I had for you?

What I want to know is which options you guys who want to keep Neil want to choose:

1. TEST his claim by having him vigged Night 1
2. Don't test his claim

[glowball]

obviously test his claim, as we can possibly still get a shot in with neil.

now answer the question, what if he isn't?

HYPOTHETICALLY
So we forfeit the 2 vigs we have to test Neil, and if he is fake claiming scum then we don't get a kill because why would he kill who we told him to?
If he is the SK then we still forfeit the 2 vigs we have to test him, but we get one person hopefully Neil won't let anyone down.

WHY DO YOU FEEL THE NEED TO COMMENT since YOU are soooooooooooo sure you won't be vigged?

you still haven't understood the post have you?

You aren't understanding me. Just answer directly. YOU said that you aren't getting vigged. Your words, you are the confident one. I am not saying you don't have a right to speak up for yourself. I am asking why, YOU being soooooooooooo confident in saying that it won't happen still feels the need to voice that opinion?

[glowball]

UNVOTE: neil1113

I don't want to be part of this wagon. Under other circumstances I might have supported it, but GreyICE's extreme scumminess overrides it. Nothing he's said works how he wants us to think it does, his logic is flawed, his questions are leading, and his random outbursts are causing us massive problems.

VOTE: GreyICE

So do you believe Neil's claim, what do you propose that we do in this night phase.

[glowball]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You cannot take credit for Neil outing himself, you had NO CLUE that would happen. Also, we haven't won by your plan just yet. Wait until end game to go on bragging.

Also, you cannot hammer since izak changed his vote.

[glowball]

If you are to lynch neil, I at least want GreyICE to be the vig target. Two docs protect the vig. Another doc protects EITHER a vig of his/her choice, or a doc of his/her choice, by flipping a coin. The remaining group of docs all protect another member of their group.

Alternaively, the remaining docs could form a doc train.

Lynch Neil.

GreyICE is not vigbait, he's useful in his own annoying way.

Two doctor's on both vigs= 4 doctors

BBMolla
Quoaroth

given this plan scum will just be able to kill doctors unless they want to out themselves. so it needs to be done strategically.

BBMolla should be protected by: Myself and Quilford
Quaroth should be protected by: Thomith and GreyICE

Remaining "Doctors"
Izak
PiggyGal
Whispersilk
VitaminR
Maruchan

Izak protects VitaminR
VitaminR protects Whispersilk
Whispersilk protects Maruchan
Maruchan protects Izak

Vig: PiggyGal

Scum will only be able to kill Quilford, GreyICE, Thomith, or Myself because we are the only ones not included in the train because we double protect the vigs.

[glowball]

I believe neil. There is no logic behind scum claiming SK, and I think we should use him tonight. Also, don't vig me ffs. I know I've been absent, but that doens't make me scum. I've been AWOL in all 3 of my current games, but I'm on vacation now, so I can be back to my usual posty self. We should vig someone scummy.

BE USEFUL

You come in and you are less than useful. If you are AWOL in all of those games maybe you should consider not playing.

Also, there is TONS of logic behind scum claiming SK- it happens a lot.

[glowball]

scum claim SK so their factions kill is directed by town, if they don't they lose a member, and if neil is fakeclaiming which is utterly stupid might i add, then the vigs shoot him and get a scum kill, how is that a wasted vig?

You are assuming that we will be directing Neil to shoot scum. THAT IS THE GOAL, but will we always be spot on?! Chances are night one we'll be wrong about who we all can agree on to vig. Neil has sufficiently gained all of the attention pulling attention away from any potential scum buddies. Confident scum(very rarely flailing scum) pull these fake claiming SK moves because they don't think that there is any chance that their partners will be the vig targets.

[glowball]

We're not vigging Piggy.

Also, scummiest players should be protecting the vigs. This'll force scum to kill scummy players, helping us.

Okay so besides vigging Piggy what did you think of the protects?

I think that offering myself up with no protection, also having GreyICE unprotected as well as Thomith and Quilford on protecting vigs is best.

Who do you want vigged again?

NINJA'D

Don't be ridiculous. I was against the plan, but ANY activity is more helpful than NO activity at least when I flip people will have information. The same cannot be said for you Whispersilk.

[glowball]

Now you are twisting things Whispersilk. You aren't scum, you are just unhelpful which can equate to scum but mostly you are just good vigbait.

[glowball]

THIS PLAN IS BEST IMO-- THE VIG BAIT CAN BE ADJUSTED, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PIGGY BUT I THINK THE 4 DOCTORS PROTECTING THE VIGS ARE PERFECT.

Lynch Neil.

GreyICE is not vigbait, he's useful in his own annoying way.

Two doctor's on both vigs= 4 doctors

BBMolla
Quoaroth

given this plan scum will just be able to kill doctors unless they want to out themselves. so it needs to be done strategically.

BBMolla should be protected by: Myself and Quilford
Quaroth should be protected by: Thomith and GreyICE

Remaining "Doctors"
Izak
PiggyGal
Whispersilk
VitaminR
Maruchan

Izak protects VitaminR
VitaminR protects Whispersilk
Whispersilk protects Maruchan
Maruchan protects Izak

Vig: PiggyGal

Scum will only be able to kill Quilford, GreyICE, Thomith, or Myself because we are the only ones not included in the train because we double protect the vigs.

[glowball]

I still prefer randomness. We're never going to prevent a scum kill that way, and if Neil isn't the SK (likely) then we're looking at 2-3 dead town tomorrow.

That's not where I want to be.

Let doctors protect as they wish

Ok, so you want double protects on the vigs but then let the rest of the doctors do what they want? Realistically we are looking at 2 dead no matter what. Whoever we want vigged, plus scum shot.

NINJA'D
Whisper- I DO NOT KNOW THAT YOU ARE A GOOD PLAYER..you've spent more time bitching about me and the game than contributing anything useful.

[glowball]

You don't need to insult me either, I don't tolerate it. I am not being arrogant I am being honest- do something besides argue with me that phase of the game is over. Sorry you missed it, it was lovely. You might be town, but one way or the other you aren't helping and I really have no reason to believe you aren't scum.

[glowball]

2 scum shots. I still don't believe Neil is flipping SK.

Okay, well we are looking at more than one death tomorrow. Although I get why you want the protects random, that way they don't know who to pick, but I think it's fairly obvious who people will choose to protect all they have to do is aim for the inactive or scummiest or less noticed of the group.

[glowball]

There is always scumhunting. HOWEVER, the are forfeiting most of the scumhunting and the spirit of the game since THEY decided to mass claim. I thought you agreed with the plan?

[glowball]

True okay.

I want the vig protects to remain the same. The rest of the doctors may do what they wish, is that okay with you and everyone?

[glowball]

NEIL YOU ARE BEING MEAN

[glowball]

what is with all you newbies wanting to pull big game moves? We can win without directing Neil, even if he is telling the truth. Be patient.

[glowball]

They are already vigging based on Neil's flip or are you not paying attention. If one of the vigs die then one of the doctors that was supposed to be protecting will be lynched.

You can protect whoever you like, if you really think it is an issue protect one of the vigs yourself.

[glowball]

It wasn't MY PLAN. I didn't propose this whole thing. I made a plan for the doctors and Grey ICE didn't want to do that because the scum would know exactly who to kill, either way I think they will be successful in killing because of all these claims, but no one listens to me.

[glowball]

they have plans for each of his possible flips.

[glowball]

I don't like izak's plans on the grounds that it was made by izakscum.

[glowball]

VitaminR isn't deciding anything, and Maruchan is not protecting Vigs either. You switch me with one of them, and another player.

[glowball]

Izak, I did and it was mostly ignored.

[glowball]

@whisper the thing is, GreyICE and I have a deal, which I believe will help the town. A plan needs to be formed aroun that.

Whisper's plan works with that. If Neil flips SK, she's got it worked out and GreyICE can still be the vig shot.

That plan is okay.

[glowball]

Your original plan Whisper! Vigs are shooting GreyICE if Neil flips SK. We just need another plan for if he flips Mafia Goon and Mafia Doc. Just amend the protects and such.

[glowball]

OH MY GOODNESS.

WHISPER! THE DEAL WAS ALREADY MADE AND AGREED UPON.

IF NEIL FLIPS SK-- GREYICE IS GETTING VIGGED
IF NEIL FLIPS GOON-- IZAK IS GETTING VIGGED
IF NEIL FLIPS MAFIA DOCTOR-- IZAK OR THOMITH IS GETTING VIGGED AND THE OTHER LYNCHED???

WHATEVER. I DO NOT KNOW WHY BUT THEY'VE AGREED.

YOUR PLAN NEEDS TO INCLUDE ALL POSSIBLE FLIPS FOR IT TO BE CONSIDERED. DO NOT GO AROUND THREATENING PEOPLE WHO DO NOT SUPPORT YOUR PLAN. ONCE YOUR PLAN IS COMPLETE WITH ALL POSSIBLE FLIPS AND YOU AMEND THE VIG PROTECTS TO THE SCUMMIEST PEOPLE.

I thought about this. The scummiest people should be in charge of protecting the vigs, if the vigs die then obviously that person is scum and this way scum can only kill the scummiest players we have. We keep the most pro town players alive so that scumz cannot try to manipulate or WIFOM down the line in the game. We need the most helpful, useful people here for the long haul. The scummiest people need to be offered up to protect the vigs.

[glowball]

Plan 1 - If Neil flips SK

This plan will only work if both the vigilantes are legit. If the SK is gone, each vig only needs to be protected by one doctor, because as long as the vigs don't target each other, there will only be one other possible shot fired.

Vigilantes

1) BBMolla

protected by GreyICE

HERE- I propose that I protect BBMolla, because my alignment has been in question thus offering up myself for possible night kill.

2) Quoaroth

protected by Whispersilk

HERE- I propose that VitaminR or Izak protects Quoaroth, I know I was against that but I have had a change of heart

Each vig picks a number randomly and attempts to kill that doctor. If that their kill is successful, then the "protective doctor" is lynched". If they survive, then the "protective doctor" is a real doctor (town or scum). Their target is revealed the next day regardless of the kill going through or not. If both kills do not go through, then the two protective docs are switched to protect the two vigs, and myself and greyice will get put into the pool of docs and we are all switched around. Night 2, the vigs pick two different docs to kill. This continues, with alterations being made each day depending on if the scum choose to kill one of the two docs protecting the vigs. Obv, after night 1, both vigs will be protected by confirmed docs.

Doctors

1)Izak -

protected by Quilford

2)PiggyGal -

protected by Izak

3)VitaminR -

protected by PiggyGal

4)Maruchan -

protected by VitaminR

5)Thomith -

protected by Maruchan

6)glowball -

protected by Thomith

7)Quilford -

protected by glowball

What do you think? This is only if neil flips SK, I'm still working on a plan if he doesn't.

Please point out any flaws.

GreyICe and Whisper can replace myself and whoever we decide is scummier out of izak and vitaminR. This way if I am correct about them being scum then they must forfeit their kill, or out themselves. Now yes scum can WIFOM on this but for that they would virtually have to no kill continuously forfeiting their main power. It is time to turn the scumhunting back on. If by chance I do have it wrong, then scum kill scummy players instead of being able to use them and keep them around until the end to try and fool us.

[glowball]

Vigs do not confirm doctors. Mafia could simply choose not to kill the vigs. First things first, let me play this out for you.(Assuming Neil is SK that is still a toss up)

Vig1 is protected by Scummy1
Vig2 is protected by Scummy2

What are you worried about? Them killing the vigs?

GREAT!

Scummy1 kills Vig1
Scummy1 is lynched the very next day SCUM FOUND

[glowball]

and vigs are not the towns only way of catching scum, you people are really relying on that too much. Vigs can and probably will aim incorrectly once and kill a townie that we vote on. The vigs are an EXTRA kill. Mafia has been won before just through lynching we still outnumber them.

[glowball]

But see how you contradict the plan. Vigs CAN confirm doctors if we have vigs target someone that someone else is protecting. We aren't. The vigs will kill a chosen person every night and no one is to protect that person, that is the point of nominating vig bait.

[glowball]

EBWOP: If a vig should hit a townie, then that is no biggie. Don't you get that having the doc train set up means that if a townie dies from a vig shot, the person responsible for protecting him is scum, and gets lynched. So yes, vigs might kill a townie, but if they do, it means we caught scum. So max times a townie dies at the hands of a vig = twice. That is not a big price to pay imo.

NO VIGS ARE NOT SHOOTING FROM THE DOC TRAIN. I was under the impression we were directing Vig Kills? That is the plan. We direct them to scum, they shoot. No one protects vig bait.

[glowball]

OMG. That is the first problem, we are talking about 2 different things.

I WILL NEVER agree to a plan that has the vigs willfully killing townies to figure out if the person protecting them is scum. VIGS AIM FOR SCUM... we leave scummy players unprotected. If your plan goes against that, then I am against your plan.

[glowball]

OKay your plan.

Vig1 is protected by Townie1
Vig2 is protected by Townie2

Vigs shoot randomly....

Docs are in a train...

OH WAIT, 1 doctor protect only protects from 1 kill. Meaning if by chance scum can read our vigs well enough and BBMolla is quite outspoken they can guess on who to kill adequately framing another player as scum.

BUT if your plan works PERFECTLY.

Vigs forfeit their kills each night phase they aim for a scum that is being protected by an actual doc/mafia doc
Vigs forfeit their kills each night phase they aim for a townie that is being protected by an actual doc/mafia doc

Vigs succeed in killing a townie, which would seem like the best case scenario and we have "found" scum

Meanwhile, scum can kill anyone protecting the vigs because they are unprotected. Yes with every night phase that the vigs aim they will have confirmed town, will they report that too us? Then we can have the confirmed townies protect the vigs in the NEXT night phase, but wait those confirmed will just die. Let's draw a picture.

V1 protected by D1
V2 protected by D2

D3 - D4
D4 - D5
D5 - D6
D6 - D7
D7 - D8
D8 - D9
D9 - D3

Mafia is most likely being protected by a townie so this will be wonderful

NIGHT 1

Vigs shoot secretly according to your plan...

They aim for the scummiest person, but their kill fails because the scum are being protected by doctors

Scum shoot D1 because he is unprotected.

Day 2

Vigs have 2 confirmed doctors, not necessarily town aligned since the mafia have a doctor but as close as it gets. They reveal their reads so we don't mislynch.

We could have the confirmed doctors protect the vigs because we KNOW that they are doctors and that keeps your precious vigilantes safe, right?
Or do we protect the confirmed doctors with other doctors just like the vigs?

Either way...

Night Scenario 1

Vigs are protected by confirmed doctors with no protection

V1 protected by CONFIRMEDDOCTOR1
V2 protected by CONFIRMEDDOCTOR2

Again there is a doctor train blah blah blah

Vigs forfeit shots because mafia is most likely protected by townies
Vigs shoot a townie SCUM FOUNT

Scum shoot CONFIRMEDDOCTOR1

Now we are at NOT INCLUDING THE POSSIBLE LYNCH Day 2 since I skipped that and went to night 2
3Mafia
2Vigs
4Doctors

one doctor is confirmed and alive at this point.

Night Scenario 2

Vigs are protected as are the Confirmed Doctors

Vig1 protected by CD1
Vig2 protected by CD2

CD1 protected by a doctor(maybe 2 if you guys play safe)
CD2 same deal

Scum shoot whoever is outwardly unprotected.
Vigs forfeit kills aiming at protected people
Vigs kill a townie SCUM FOUND

at this point

2Vigs
3Mafia
4Docs

2 confirmed doctors, alignment unknown

Now we may go into the Days and lynch scum because of the kills, and we may not. The

best case

scenario is ending up with a whole bunch of confirmed townies. This plan has to go perfectly to even stand a chance at working, all it takes is mafia aiming correctly on the same vig kill which are pretty obvious especially as the numbers dwindle.

NINJA'D
That too, I am still not convinced that Neil will flip SK--- so modify your plans Whisper, I've asked you several times now.

[glowball]

whisper's plan is pretty good actually

if I understand it correctly we could end up with scum at the end of the night -- or we could end up with a guarantee of one confirmed innocent between two people

the plan also works if neil is the mafia doctor

VOTE: neil1113

Good point Quilford, it does work if he is the mafia doctor, we still need a plan if he is just a goon.

The plan isn't fool proof, and it worries me- granted all plans worry me.

[glowball]

I am voting him, and he will be lynched

[glowball]

it's not about it being simple or hard it's just exhausting, most of us have other games and we've gone through so many plans we lose track which is why I said you need to re work your plan and lay it out. You need ONE POST with both plans. Telling everyone what to do CLEARLY not in a huge paragraph so that they can reference it at night.

[glowball]

NO. YOU NEED TO LAY OUT WHO IS PROTECTING WHO. I am serious, these things get exhausting to read. Don't cut corners type everything out fully every name every time, each person that each vig can shoot. This needs to be preschool simple because if it isn't followed exactly we could end up fucked.

[glowball]

I can only shoot #1, #2, #3, or #4. Quar can only shoot 5, 8, or 9.

If we shoot the same person, the night becomes pointless.

Let's go with Quil's plan.

That is the same as whispers plan, vigs shoot in different pools. Also, why aren't vigs shooting VitaminR Quilford?

[glowball]

oh Vitamin is protecting a vig? okay nevermind

[glowball]

NO. YOU NEED TO LAY OUT WHO IS PROTECTING WHO. I am serious, these things get exhausting to read. Don't cut corners type everything out fully every name every time, each person that each vig can shoot. This needs to be preschool simple because if it isn't followed exactly we could end up fucked.

What are you talking about. Quil lays it out.

he has NUMBERS, I know it seems silly but this whole plan needs to be preschool simple. AND ONE PERSON needs to be doing the plan, also we haven't worked out a plan for if Neil flips Goon.

I want one person. 2 clear/ preschool simple plans.

All this posting is just muddying up the whole thing. Whisper's plan is best. Quilford is just taking her plan into his hands. Let Whisper re work her plan to fit Neil's possible other flip

UNVOTE:

until I am sufficiently satisfied that everyone understands this

[glowball]

XD @ neil

<3

[glowball]

XD @ neil

<3

Every time I re-read that post I lol again.

Neil will be missed

[glowball]

Yes, I also dislike GreyICE. Neil why did you claim?! Seriously under other circumstances I would have kept a someone who claimed SK around, but not after a mass claim. We need every anti-town lynch we can get.

[glowball]

Which is why we aren't listening to izak, and I am not listening to you. You already got this whole mass claim thing your way, and Neil is getting lynched. IF the plan backfires then either you win as scum or it's a big I told you so to everyone who jumped on board and decides to listen. I've basically given this game to the universe it is what it is... let's just hope for the best and get this over with

[glowball]

Too many chiefs not enough indians.

EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE needs to get off their leader horse. Whispersilk you seem like you are trying to prove yourself entirely too much, this isn't the game for that you can go back to the Road to Rome if you want to feel superior. GreyICE, if you are town this is the can of worms you wanted to open up. You wanted a mass claim and with the mass claim comes plan making and everyone wants to make one and thinks theirs is the best. I don't like any of the plans because any of you could be scum. Problem is no one listens to me.

I don't like GreyICE backing out of his deal with izak- suspect
Vigs should be shooting from respective vig pools as originally planned.

[glowball]

Vigs should be shooting from respective vig pools as originally planned.

I get what Whispersilk is saying, she wants the option that the vigs might shoot each other out there so that a MafiaDoctor wouldn't think to gamble (if they were protecting a vig) and use their protect for one of the goons protections.

She basically wants to scare them away from trying anything tricky because there is a good possibility that the Mafia Doctor could do that which is what I was getting at earlier and because Whisper did notice that and attempted to modify her plan for it she definitely gets town points. She definitely didn't have to bring it up and if she is mafia it was really only working against that. I think she is town, however it is easy to realize that vigs will probably never shoot each other. If we are going to use that principle then we really should have the scummiest players protecting vigs and going unprotected.

[glowball]

Who is raging at you besides GreyICE?

[glowball]

We could all pitch a fit about GreyICE. GreyICE is just that annoying all of the time. Seriously, it's not a scumtell. I mean he could be scum, but he does the same annoyingly entitled arrogant thing as town. He's just very strong willed and outspoken in these games. That is a good thing and a bad thing, hell without him activity could have stalled a lot.

[glowball]

No, I'm scared and I know I am not scum. I just hate these plans. I hated the mass claim. I think this whole thing is going to suck because like I said too many chiefs not enough indians. everything thinks they know what is best and some people won't agree. THIS IS WHY WHEN THE TOWNSPEOPLE ARE DIVIDED WE DO NOT ORCHESTRATE PLANS, we just play normally and let a majority rule in the lynchings. We should have never mass claimed with this particular group of players, let's hope everyone gets on board with something.

[glowball]

NO. WHISPER AND MYSELF(GLOWBALL) ARE BEING LEFT UNPROTECTED. GREYICE YOUR IN SERIOUS QUESTION AND WORKED HEAVILY AGAINST THIS PLAN-- YOU WILL BE IN THE DOC POOL, DEAL WITH THAT. Now that you have agreed with the plan there is no reason to go against it, putting yourself in charge of the vigs is suspect the plan will go forward as originally intended.

WHISPER--- Stop posting here and work on a plan for if Neil flips Goon. Seriously. You've obviously had time.

[glowball]

The world needs followers, the world needs Maruchan. <3

[glowball]

MY EYES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[glowball]

I want to see the mod flavor in the next vote count.

Also, Thomith- I hate you. Discuss...

[glowball]

I hate you. Discuss...

Alot of people do, you're not the only one.

Well I wasn't being serious. I was just being jokingly mean. <3

[glowball]

That is L-1 if I counted correctly,BTW it's been 10 pages since a vote count.

I AM SO SORRY FOR WHAT YOU HAVE TO WORK WITH MOD

I'll put my vote in for the hammer or just insurance if I counted incorrectly

VOTE: Neil

[glowball]

whispersilk was unprotected.

VitaminR however was not, and I was already suspicious of PiggyGal- unless BOTH vigs claim they shot VitaminR there is no way around this short of scum accurately guessing who they vigged. I need results people, vigs get your butts in here!

VOTE: Piggy