camn's temperamental - Mini 1232 - GAME OVER

[RedPanda]

confirm

[RedPanda]

VOTE: Fishythefish

Dont trust the fishy fish

[RedPanda]

answer to BBmollas question

1: i havent played forum mafia ever , i used to play mafia with my friends every weekend.
2: id never claim unless i was sure of a victory or if i was in danger of being lynched or nked.

[RedPanda]

It wasn't that serious of a vote. It was to put some pressure on Fishy, which clearly is already being done by four others.

Parama are you willing to bet on your mother's life right now that I am scum? Why or why not?

Unvote. Vote:BBmolla

your post seems to me like scum cracking under pressure

[RedPanda]

Alright, main people I want to examine are my wagon's folks, because I really doubt I'm being scummy enough to garner a wagon at this point in time.

Parama

It starts in #58, with some terrible logic from Parama, mostly about me findng the seriousness during RVS scummy. I think it's something to look into, I don't think it's something to lynch over. Parama is overreacting about me and painting me as scum. Never played with Parama except in skype, so I don't know if this is just how she works or what, but she is quite literally making me seem more scummy then I am being.
Also, quick question, if I'm scum, why would I hop off a ML wagon? That makes no sense. At all.
Your evidence is absolutely poor, and half of it is just "Oh my god he did this common action? He's practically claiming scum!"
I guess #72 is supposed to be a joke, but I don't really find it funny considering it's what you're actually doing.
I'm apparently scum in #94 because I unvoted someone who I wanted to look into but was not fully convinced is scum. I will say once again, why would I discourage a ML if I was mafia?
Then he misreps me.

Your case on me is garbage Parama, if you really want to ML me make up some more stuff about me being scum, I'm sure if you call me scum enough people will start to believe it.

VOTE: Parama
This is not a pressure vote. This is truly someone I think is scum.

Kanye

Kanye hops on in #61 and then proceeds to vote me for unvoting. I'm sorry for unvoting someone who I'm not completely sure is scum, I will make sure to fence sit next time. My apologies.
Most everything else from him is useless filler.

Chair

Chair's hop on in #73 is unexplained, and looks like they are just sheeping Parama. Please make a case on me. Your current vote just looks like a hop on the bandwagon.

Red Panda

#76 is absolutely dreadful. Explain why it looks I am cracking under pressure, that's a really broad statement that could be applied to quite literally anything.

Johhog

Johhog votes me in post #81. You're the fifth on my wagon, don't criticise me for being the fourth on some other. And I clearly commented on it, you even quoted my comment. Activity is not my reason, I clearly stated my reason. I'm not trying to get towncred, I don't need it, I just don't want to ML someone page 3 when I don't have a reason to be completely sure they are scum. The vote in this post is my first "serious, I think this person is truly scum" vote. And then you hop on my wagon because you don't "buy" my unvote and because I "give off scummy vibes." K. Those are definitely better reasons to vote someone than I ever gave.

Just cause you unvoted to prevent a ML doesnt mean your not scum. it could be that you targeted your scumbuddy at the start to make it look like you guys arent buddies and then unvoted when you thought he might be in danger. also when the votes started coming to you, you use a bet on paramas mother's life which i think is really scummy. what did you expect him to reply? hes obviously not going to bet on it. And my Really Broad statement was to be applied to what i quoted. its a pity why you cant understand why that statement seems that way.

[RedPanda]

my top two scum suspects were fishy and BB , seeing fishy's last post i guess only one of them might be scum . im not entirely convinced that BB's a town cop but since its easily confirmable im going to move on to the other scum .

UNVOTE

[RedPanda]

actually fishy the only reason i thought you were scum was cause of BB's interactions with you from the start. its more of a gut feeling that one of you are scum. i was actually more inclined to BB as scum and you as town. and you do provide valid points against BB, my inexperience didnt let me think about that.

[RedPanda]

Fishy and Kanye have got the correct answer quite fast. Have a gold star.
But yes, Kanye is correct. Unless scum roles have explicitly anti-town role names there seems to be little use for a namecop, and it is even harder to conirm one

I was never on the BB wagon anyways. I have prefered a zang lynch over BB for some time now

Panda still looks suspect. Both his votes onto and off of the BB wagon look poor

how does my votes onto and off BB look poor? i was obviously pressuring BB with my vote on him and my unvote was because of his roleclaim and i did admit inexperience when fishy explained why BB's roleclaim didn't matter .

[RedPanda]

i was obviously pressuring BB with my vote on him

not really. you said BB was "scum cracking under pressure" and then kept your vote on him to BB's L-1 which is more than a pressure vote

post 183unvote was because of his roleclaim and i did admit inexperience when fishy explained why BB's roleclaim didn't matter .

like kanye and fishy say, you can't unvote purely because of his claim.
and inexperience isn't a free pass anymore

have you been reading my posts ? BB is my top scum suspect and i voted him to add pressure on him. i dont understand where your going with this. ive played mafia irl but without all the added mechanics. the mafia cop thing is new to me and i didnt think about it too much and when fishy and kanye explained it it seemed rational to me and i agreed with it. what are you actually trying to say? please get to the point .

[RedPanda]

VOTE BB

[RedPanda]

Brilliant fishy. your gameplay is actually really good. i guess its no point for me to hold back what i think about you now that youve called me out. the only reason i made the post about you no longer seeming scum to me was just to make sure i dont get nked in case i was wrong(i believed you might be town at that point but i didnt want to take a chance). When you started your vote on BB after his roleclaim, i was confused - i was so sure from your interactions at the start that both of you were scum(for people who want clarification please reread their votes on each other they are sneaky and they keep trying to keep a distance between themselves) that when you actually started the vote after BB's roleclaim i thought there might be a possibility that you might be town. i was just waiting for you to change your vote to prove that your BB's scumbuddy. and since im the only one whos pointed out both scum, im sure i seem pretty dangerous to you. when you asked me why i thought you were one of my top scum suspects, i was unsure of what to say and a lot suspicious. and to prove im town and consistent with this theory of mine please refer to my post 119.(i see the connection between fishy and BB there and vote because of that. also fishy and BB Completely ignore this post of mine.)
Post 174- i still mention the connection between fishy and BB. my post 178 which still mentions their connection in direct answer to fishys question. and fishy actually Asked me to join his wagon on BB back again since i agreed with his points about BB's roleclaim. at this point since i was pretty sure that since BB was scum and fishy voting for him meant that he was town i voted for bb. and fishy did exactly what he planned to do - try to shift the whole focus on me.
i say lynch fishy or BB first .
If i am wrong - you know where to find me.
i just hope you guys reread this thing thoroughly.
i will not be able to reply back immediately since its 12 30 am for me and im off to sleep and college tom and will be back in 16- 18 hours.

[RedPanda]

@fishy and lurconis

My priority is still lynching the people who are scum. The reason i withheld information was to make sure that i had enough proof on both of them. fishy starting the wagon on BB did make me consider the possibility of him being town but i did not want to take a chance. and at this point i couldnt still tell everybody that fishy and BB might be working together because fishy started the wagon on BB.

ALso

Fishy wrote -This is one scummy Panda. Jumps on a large wagon with the incredibly vague statement that BB is scum cracking under pressure. He gives some insight into why here:

In post 119, RedPanda wrote:Just cause you unvoted to prevent a ML doesnt mean your not scum. it could be that you targeted your scumbuddy at the start to make it look like you guys arent buddies and then unvoted when you thought he might be in danger. also when the votes started coming to you, you use a bet on paramas mother's life which i think is really scummy. what did you expect him to reply? hes obviously not going to bet on it. And my Really Broad statement was to be applied to what i quoted. its a pity why you cant understand why that statement seems that way.


So the first two sentences are a misunderstanding of someone else's point against BB. The way Panda mangles it, he winds up saying that unvoting me isn't townish because it might have been a bus originally. Which... is true, I suppose. But it doesn't remotely say why unvoting me is scummy. And the actual point Parama had made was that unvoting me was scummy because BB got cold feet about a mislynch. This incompetent parroting is mega scummy. Then he says that betting Parama's mother is really scummy - but why? It's clear that BB means "are you very sure I'm scum?". And why's that a scummy question? Panda doesn't share that with us. It's just the kind of thing I can see wagonning scum pick on - it feels somehow like it's an unfair and scummy question for BB to ask, but when you think about it it actually isn't.

After BB's claim, he unvotes because BB is confirmable, and says that BB and I were his top suspects. He then agrees with me that actually it makes no sense to unvote someone because their role is confirmable. And backtracks massively, saying:

In post 178, RedPanda wrote:actually fishy the only reason i thought you were scum was cause of BB's interactions with you from the start. its more of a gut feeling that one of you are scum. i was actually more inclined to BB as scum and you as town. and you do provide valid points against BB, my inexperience didnt let me think about that.


This seems to say that he had a feeling that one of BB and I was scum. And that's it's BB. Which is pretty much in direct conflict with his previous post. Reads like, seeing my explanation, he realises that he's safe on the BB wagon, and drops his suspicion on me as unnecessary. He's also now twice explained his vote on BB by saying he voted to pressure him - and still not adequately explained his actual vote.

Panda looks to me like a shameless bandwagonner. It doesn't feel like he cares much about whether BB is scum. Scummy.

Fishy Your whole reason for voting me was Because you think im a bandwagoner and ive proved that im not and youve actually quoted exactly the texts where i call you scum twice.

@Voting For BB to go along with fishy - BB is my number one scum suspect.
@perengrinev - i am trying to out scum. im sure that fishy and BB are scumbuddied. would you want me to just ignore them?

[RedPanda]

EBWOP im sure that fishy and BB are scumbuddies*
As for the interactions which caught my eye between fishy and BB. i would suggest that you read this believing both of them are scum even if you still are not convinced.

Post 39 - Vote made by BB on fishy out of random .
Post 53 - BB's unvote on fishy - nobody in their right mind would lynch some1 that early. if somebody did it they would feel the wrath of others. i got suspicious of BB now.
Post 59 - Pressure on fishy during RVS - lol?
Post 85 - Fishy lets every1 know that BB CLEARLY thought he was scum.
Post 87 - Fishy continues with driving a wedge between him and BB.
Post 88 89 91 by zang and sathoris. i really want both you guys to post because i think both of you are town and fishy must be stopped.
Post 97 didnt catch anything there but i still feel the connection
Post 111 still driving a wedge. Cmon he even says stop painting me as scum and if u think im scum vote me. i think fishy might be his scum buddy here.
Post 120 Im Believing my convictions even more.
Post 128 Is it just me or are there just too many fishy and BB references?
Post 136 BB is increasingly becoming scum in everyone's eyes and fishy's still against him. can you blame him?
Post 148 they do talk to each other a lot.
Post 156 Sathoris didnt answer your question, how come you didnt press it any further?

im sorry im late for college, il be back in a while to continue.

[RedPanda]

im back.

what made me really suspicious about your interactions with BB where that they seemed too forced to me - this is a gut read, i cannot show it to people.
i understand what your saying about me seeing connections everywhere when i decided you were scum together. ive only played mafia in real life and we had no added mechanics, these things are new to me so when you explained the fact that BB's roleclaim did not prove his alignment , i did think that there was a chance that i might have jumped to conclusions because i saw you both as scum from the start. but your unvote on sorgster to vote for me just felt too planned for me. i admit my not going all out on my scum reads might seem like scum to people - but i find thats the best way to find scum.

At this point im not going to change my vote on sorgster. now that you think im town are you gonna change your vote back to sorgster?
if not who else ?
and one more thing ive wanted to ask you - when you suspected bb why didnt you vote for him to add pressure on him? your vote on bb was in post 206 , you said that the vote on bb was because you think it could be a scum role but why vote for him now when you hadnt voted for him earlier? did your convictions about him grow stronger. if so why? and why did you unvote him? you explained that it was cause all the people you felt were scum voted for him. is there any other reason why hes no longer scummy to you?

[RedPanda]

yea sorgster = bb. sorry about that . hes from another game.

[RedPanda]

Kanye I do believe your town. i would ask you to please read all the posts of BB and fishy from the start and tell me what you think about it.
@lurconis thanks for taking a look at it. i normally would have disregarded it but their posts seem too forced to me.

[RedPanda]

@chair Parama is definitely town. Either you dont see it or your scum.

[RedPanda]

I can't see scum gambitting here Zang. If BBmolla flips town Parama is basically fucked.

My thoughts exactly. I can't see scum trying to pull this, hence the unvote.

You do realize how this looks for you don't you?

[RedPanda]

It's not inactivity, it's hard to pinpoint. It's mostly a glorified gut feeling backed up only by your attempts to set up a 1v1 with Parama and BB.

if you're town parma is scum. same for parama town

in other words would you offer yourself as a sacrifice to confirm parma as scum for tommorow (assuming you are town)

As it stands, I trust Parama, BB and Kanye. Chair is joining the good side as is Fishy. If I were to guess where the scum are hiding I'd say it's in you, Lurconis, Zang, Haylen, Johhog and Panda. Given we're one day off the deadline and you've got three votes now and it's useless to make a whole case on one of the others and expect to get them lynched within a day. I'm sticking on you as it's my best shot in the dark right now.

UNVOTE VOTE SATHORIS

Thanks for your reads. i now believe your scum. the other two scum are between parama bb kanye chair and fishy. i do believe parama and kanye are definitely town. so it has to be two out of the other three.

[RedPanda]

im a little confused, im going to start rereading this entire thread when im back from college.

[RedPanda]

The reason i voted for sathoris was because of this comment -

As it stands, I trust Parama, BB and Kanye. Chair is joining the good side as is Fishy. If I were to guess where the scum are hiding I'd say it's in you, Lurconis, Zang, Haylen, Johhog and Panda. Given we're one day off the deadline and you've got three votes now and it's useless to make a whole case on one of the others and expect to get them lynched within a day. I'm sticking on you as it's my best shot in the dark right now.

i thought his reads on chair bb and fishy were wrong and i felt adding parama and kanye was just convenient because half of us already believed them to be town.

[RedPanda]

now that bb has flipped town, i no longer believe parama and kanye are confirmed town.

ive been wondering why the scum would choose sathoris as their nightkill. i dont believe its a random kill choice. im still rereading to find why he got killed and i would ask the others to do the same.

[RedPanda]

are town even making a rational decision here? just the wagon on twistedspoon proves hes not scum. it is so obvious scum are on the wagon and theyre aiming for another mislynch.

BBmolla - 7 ( Parama Johhog kanyeknowsbest Lurconis fishythefish Zang twistedspoon )
twistedspoon - 5 ( Parama kanyeknowsbest Lurconis Chair Haylen )

three people on both wagons

VOTE PARAMA

[RedPanda]

another interesting note -

BB flipped town. why did parama investigate chair and not twistedspoon ? just seems to me like a scumcop searching for powerroles. most of you assume parama is town because he tunneled on bb so hard if bb flipped town it'd be suicide for him. classic wifom.

[RedPanda]

great argument, lynch someone because his role isn't useful. whos got the hammer yall.

why are you convinced parama is a town cop? you had problems with bb being a town cop.

[RedPanda]

Because I don't inspect people that are heavily suspected by multiple people? That'd be a waste. Regardless of the rather useless nature of my role.

Hey Red. If there was a wagon on me, would that disprove that I was scum?
What makes me a better vote than kanye or Lurconis?

Just the fact that bb got mislynched and were already rushing into another lynch proves twistedspoons not scum.
all three of you seem seem like scum to me. you and kanye even more than lurconis. and your actually telling me that your so sure twisteds scum? theres no chance he can flip town? hes a prime suspect so what? there's still no proof hes definite scum. maybe your investigation of him could have shed some light on his role and we could vote with more information but no you investigate chair. If you were town cop your first priority would be to make sure our next lynch hits the mark not investigate other roles. that just proves your scumcop.

[RedPanda]

great lurconis wants to hammer.

[RedPanda]

theres a big difference between hearing him out and deciding were not lynching him today. its entirely provable that the invention portion of his claim is true, unless fishy is also scum (which i doubt.) based on fishys input, we will be able to debate on if we believe this affects twistedspoon's alignment. im not going to write anything off given the suspicions that camn is attempting to jack with meta in this game.

You had a problem with BB's alignment , now you have a problem with twisteds alignment. What about parama's alignment ? id asked this before. seems like you ignored it.

[RedPanda]

@per are you talking about chairs 496? if yes then i completely agree with what chair said but there are the votes people have to look into.
BB's lynch has to have some scumvotes on it and pushing for a twisted lynch in 2 days with lurconis willing to hammer also just proves that both votes on them have scumvotes on them. right now i believe the scum to be parama, lurconis and kanye.

[RedPanda]

How is Lurconis claim a "massive towntell"?

+1. exactly hows it a massive towntell?

[RedPanda]

Sath's death also makes spoon more likely scum, because Sath suspected spoon.

i completely disagree with this, doesnt it make it too obvious? please dont reply saying its WIFOM, please then use that logic for lurconis and paramas claim where it makes more sense.

i believe sathoris died because kanye and lurconis found him to be a threat. you can find all the evidence in your rereads.

[RedPanda]

because sathoris butted horns with both of them at the start. what about the votes ?
BBmolla - 7 ( Parama Johhog kanyeknowsbest Lurconis fishythefish Zang twistedspoon )
twistedspoon - 5 ( Parama kanyeknowsbest Lurconis Chair Haylen )

three people on both wagons. whats your explanation about the where the scum votes are?

[RedPanda]

i do believe the start of the games important, thats when scum scope out threats.

I dont buy the 2 cops with different names and same roles thing. correct me if im wrong isn't that why you lynched BB?
We all buy into the "oh parama cant be scum, because he made a move that scum would never do" but why cant he be scum? what if he played us?
And lurconis actually claimed to help out parama saying that he had the exact same role that sathoris did so there can be two cops. then he says this

I don't want to hammer before you even have a chance to defend so I will hold off until you can post again but that is where i am currently.

.

right now im confident of the parama lurconis scum team. kanye could be the third.

[RedPanda]

also sathoris reads about kanye and parama were the same as mine at that point. im willing to bet that sathoris would have done the same thing im doing once BB flipped town if he were alive.

[RedPanda]

Im not talking about the people sathoris suspected, im talking about the people who felt threatened by sathoris.

Why does it matter that there are three people on both wagons? Missing your point here. The scum votes could be... more or less anywhere. A likely pair is any with at most one of spoon's wagon, say. spoon/Johhog/anyone, for example, is a perfectly sensible scumteam. As is spoon/Zang/anyone, spoon/Peregrine/anyone, and many others.

i totally agree with this statement. but im still going for the parama lurconis and kanye scum team because i feel theyre playing like smart scum. if it was twisted spoon then that would be a really bad performance.

[RedPanda]

a town/scumflip on Twisted or Parama would divide the Town into two camps.

You just entered my confirmed town list.

[RedPanda]

looks like i was wrong.
need a lot of rereading to correct this now.

@parama i was so convinced you were scum because of your role name = the architect. ive to check on those temperaments again.

[RedPanda]

it wasnt the temperaments , its just when i hear the word architect, i equate it to the architect of the matrix.

[RedPanda]

yes

[RedPanda]

not exactly. looking at all those temperaments i was trying to figure out which temperament would probably be good and which would be bad. and the architect was the creator of the matrix.

[RedPanda]

Im claiming now. You are the HEALER; observant, cooperative, informative, and expressive.

[RedPanda]

i was trying to explain why i thought u were scum. anyway that was badplay from my part.

TwistedSpoon wrote

Fishy will be able to prove my role/innocence

I gave him the invention last night. If it's a nice pro-town invention then all should be well. Scum shouldn't have a role that harms their own wincon

If it's anti-town power, like miller, then the mod's having a good time playing mid games and I guess it wouldn't be completely unreasonable to assume I was a mafioso inventor giving out anti-town roles (I'm not though)

Fishy wrote

So many power roles.

I haven't received an invention. Does your role PM imply I would know about it by now? I can imagine a mechanic where an inventee would only hear about the invention the following night.

Of course, it's possible that you invented me something I don't get to know about.

TwistedSpoon wrote

it doesn't say, it just says that it will give the player a power (invention)

I had expected you to know about it though.

Kanye wrote

why did you choose fishy to invent?

Kanye Wrote

there is, of course, the final possibility that both fishy and twistedspoon are scum and fishy is bussing hard. doubtful.

twistedspoon, your INVENTOR and Mafia RoleBlocker, has been lynched.
kanyeknowsbest, your TEACHER and Townsperson, has been brutally killed.

twistedspoon was a roleblocker. he couldnt invent anything , yet he claims and points at fishy to confirm his ability.why?

Vote Fishy

.

[RedPanda]

I did not ask you to claim. Why did you claim.

Because i made a badplay and i have a better scumsuspect and i need people looking over that without thinking im scum.

[RedPanda]

Exactly things would have played out differently yesterday had someone confirmed twisteds role. Ts was a roleblocker not an inventor. which is why im wondering why choose fishy if he wasnt his buddy.im only guessing here but i think scumfishy's motive would be to get rid of a weak link and appear more town. But mainly i think fishy didnt want to take the risk of confirming his buddy's claim in case the ts lynch still happened.

[RedPanda]

yes healers my role name. not my role.

[RedPanda]

you should all get on my fishy case.

[RedPanda]

@lurconis i think because like me he chose to believe in the smart scum and not noob scum. thats what i got from his posts and thats why i believe hes town. and this post

a town/scumflip on Twisted or Parama would divide the Town into two camps.

just proves that.

[RedPanda]

@per I saw it as a townflip on twisted = smart scum and a scumflip on him = notsosmart scum.

[RedPanda]

I think guessing scum from temperaments is outguessing the mod in it's purest form, and isn't likely to help.

Johhog's end of day vote is odd. But I can't see the scum motivation in it, and I don't think scum would say "a Para/spoon flip would divide the town into two camps" if they know one is town and one is scum and their voting for the townie. I can more easily imagine Johhog getting in a tangle and persuading himself to go against his gut than him playing as he did as scum.

i agree

[RedPanda]

I'm OK with Johhog.

VOTE: Haylen

@RedPanda: you say that twisted would have chosen a buddy to claim at so as to confirm his claim. But I

didn't

confirm his claim. What's more, scum never would - it would mean that once one of them flipped, the other would be dead. There's no reason for twisted to choose a buddy there (or, indeed, to not choose a buddy). It's pure WIFOM. You're totally right that

if I was scum

then I wouldn't have wanted to take the risk of confirming his claim. But because there's no reason he wouldn't choose a townie, that just isn't evidence for me being scum.

i will ISO haylen by today and change my read on him if i find anything. but till now your the best case i have.

[RedPanda]

VOTE PARaMA

Why are you still alive parama?

[RedPanda]

im also seeing a curious case of whoever i think is scum ending up dead.

[RedPanda]

NO Your scum i can feel it. Diabolical scum thats what you are.

[RedPanda]

Scum are killing people i think are scum which means they know im not protecting them. Your EVIL you have to die.

[RedPanda]

^ id get that If People Were suspecting me in the first place. But they're not. only logical explanation is they're killing people im definitely not protecting. You watching me last night gets you town points. but it would be really stupid of scum to target me with a watcher alive.

@parama Ive used logic for all my previous votes. they all flipped town. No logic for you Its pure GUT screaming for your lynch. But then again you still not being dead might be because Scum believed lurconis might watch you or me and didnt want to take the chance.
My vote might change But its definitely not going on johhog.

[RedPanda]

Im a he also Lurc

[RedPanda]

thats obvious. Since they believe the docs protecting him. and hes not being roleblocked Because the roleblockers dead or do you think theres another roleblocker on the scumteam?

[RedPanda]

Killing Sathoris kanye fishy seems to be a calculated move. Johhog is playing a game using his gut. the two dont relate. i really think johhogs a bad lynch.

[RedPanda]

Parama i see it as a setup. Something scum will use against me if im alive at LYLO. Lurconis is Definitely town just because he watched me. Johhogs character here and scums character dont match. thats why hes not scum. If there's a better target whos playing a calculated shrewd game , let me know il change my vote if i see anything there.

[RedPanda]

Sorry.

Person i wouldnt want to lynch = lurcnois.

will post more soon.

[RedPanda]

I still think paramas the best lynch. There's nothing his role does for us. Why would we have two useless roles with the same alignment?

[RedPanda]

A VT is a useless role. I see two or more of them with the same alignment in games all the time.

Thats your explanation? Glad to see your thinking on this.

[RedPanda]

Well played. sorry camn For not trying hard enough.