Secret Society Mafia - Game Over

[Alabaska J]

/confirm

[Alabaska J]

vote: sorgster

for being in all of my games haha

[Alabaska J]

Interesting classification otolia. Posting has become "spam"

Of 18 posts, only one of yours contains more than 1 line. So yes, you are spamming.

One day you will learn that quality >> quantity, in the mean time you can continue to wank on your postcount.

Why does long length indicate quality, otolia. And in that regards,

Unvote
Vote: Otolia

Calling me out for quality and posting, while not providing any of your own.

5 bucks says that both these guys are town. (note: this is not intended to be an actual bet, please don't modkill me, kthx)

i agree with this one. seems like an early town-on-town squabble. scum rarely get into those. not the strongest tell, mind you.

VOTE: Global Warming
Because Al Gore told me it was bad.

This guy is confirmed town for Day 1.

Werewolves are another mafia faction. They'll have flavour something like "ripped to shreds" for kills. Cops can't detect them, but Seers can. Docs can't protect from them, but Herbalists (or something) can, because of Wolfsbane. There's a wiki on them I think.

There is no kill flavour in this game.
Though there may be specialised cops and/or doctors. Depends on the game.

Well utilizing the gamblers fallacy, you're more likely to be scum here!

And yes I did change my avatar =)


VOTE: Whispersilk
Just gonna sheep muffinman until I see something I don't like.

And this guy can be town too for the moment.

care to explain? or are you gonna tack on a buddy to reasonable logic and hope it slides by?

[Alabaska J]

care to explain? or are you gonna tack on a buddy to reasonable logic and hope it slides by?

(shrug) I got a vaguely pro-town vibe from that post I quoted. Nothing too strong, really.

good enough for me right now. your case on baby spice is very nice for something this early in the game. i don't suppose you happen to remember your alignment in our previous games (or what they were so i could look it up, assuming the archives go back far enough)? something about how you are playing seems familiar to me, and i'd like to know what meta i may be dealing with (if anything at all). for now, baby spice seems like a good place for one of these:

unvote, vote: Baby Spice

. let's see what you've got to say in response to Yosarian's post

[Alabaska J]

v/la until saturday

due to midterms

[Alabaska J]

back from V/LA! i'll catch up and post today

[Alabaska J]

here!!! reading!!! don't give up on me!!! also yosarian i think that was his point

[Alabaska J]

Actually, it was pretty absurd. Its fluff questioning. No one is claiming scum unless they're undertaking a massive gambit, have lost their mind, or are delusional. Your question doesn't advance the game. And, You actually dropped your absolutely imperative line of questioning of zmuffin after he told you to sod off. Doesn't feel right.

Are you scum???

agreed here but…

I also feel that scum want to appear active and really into the game, i.e. "I'm rereading" "will be rereading soon guys!". The fact that otolia is worried that he might not be seen to be participating one day into this game, when some people haven't posted yet, appears self conscious in a scummy sort of way.

lynch all lurkers early on has been and never will be a good strategy. this is wifom c'mon man sit down man

Firstly, I never called you stupid. I said " if you insisted on pretending to be stupid". Not the same thing at all, indeed to pretend to be stupid would rather imply that you're not. Yet another nice misrep there.

oh please. speaking of misreps…

Also, we are miller

i believe this because it is day one. you have me sold for now…

We are a great beast and therefore we are treated for investigative roles as a werewolf.
Does it actually matter what kind of miller?

With Maf and Wolf scumgroups, I think it absolutely does matter, since there are wiki roles that differentiate between being able to return guilties on Mafia versus guilties on Werewolves.

And you're being serious? In a game with "secret society" flavor, you're a "great beast?"

I have to admit that I'm a little wary of the claim just because it didn't come out from the very beginning from y'all, but at a minimum, we shouldn't be lynching you today.

Entirely unrelated, the Baby Spice wagon isn't bad, but y'all really should join TheJakalope wagon. Ever since getting called out for his weaksauce "here are three dudes, one isn't town!" post, all he has done has justify his own play, he hasn't done any actual scumhunting. None. I really want this guy lynched today.

Ludi, I need to meta you. Do you have a recent town game and scum game I can look at?

after the great beast claim though i have the same reservations as above. you had me for a minute or so though! not saying you aren't miller, but this is a little fishy. not prepared to guess at roles, and a miller claim is an interesting gambit for scum to pull (if there is a vig he'll probably target you if you are wondering why, but with two mafias there may not be a vig and this may be a safer claim)

As yosarian2 would say '(shrug)'

Is there any reason it is difficult to get votes right here?

Absolute flaunting of his non-scum hunting lurking play and buddying to Yos.

KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!

agreed here as well. i get a town vibe from Magna overall.

thus ends the first wall of text…i have to go grocery shopping so later i will post more

[Alabaska J]

Okay Lynch All Liars, once was bad enough, twice is to much.

Unvote

Vote: Iceguy

I think it's highly likly that Otalia is scum or at best a dangerous player to leave around even if town.
I think that that the most logical explanation for the post of Sage is that she is scum with Whispersilk.

Yet you unvoted from a wagon that was gaining steam (on a player that looks to you HIGHLY LIKELY to be scum) to vote Sage?

FOS StefanB

yeah THIS POST stands out to me a lot. i agree; this looks like scum jumping off a scum lynch the first chance he gets

[Alabaska J]

proding here, sorry still wading through midterms…hate to slack on this game since i love the people here. i'll catch up as much as i can; although a quality post from me might be a day away (meaning after my next midterm)

[Alabaska J]

Hey guys, i've decided to get fully recommitted to this game after talking with the mod. i'm going to do a thorough reread of day one, and if there's anything you specifically feel i should address, let me know.

[Alabaska J]

Spoiler: Spoiler

hmm

unvote

VOTE: IceGuy

I'm gonna go with this

this seems to be where the IceGuy wagon starts in earnest. strange that it has so little foundation

I know you feel entitled to lead the town to a marvelous victory because

you are so full of yourself you can't possibly imagine yourself not being right

, but you might want to tone it a bit. Just for the sake of your head, I worry about your health.

So despite never having played with me before (which you acknowledged earlier) you’ve suddenly made the bolded sweeping judgement about me. Lovely. I’ve never said I’m never wrong. Even the best scum-hunters aren’t 100% accurate. That said I’m on a pretty good hot-streak lynching scum (BTTF Mafia, [REDACTED]) as of late so excuse me if I don’t go second-guessing myself based on AtE.

As for the ‘worry about your health’ I’m not sure whether to take that as a “My scum team is definitely NKing you tonight’ threat or not. Regardless you should gander and my title and realize it probably doesn’t much matter in a multi-scum game if I ‘lay back’ or not.

emphasis mine. it's weird; from reading i don't get a real scum vibe form otolia, but he really hasn't posted much.

@MoI

: There is nothing I want to answer to you right now. If I continue to argue the way I am doing it right now, I'm going to end up insulting you and that won't help anyone. You basically force me to engaged in a childish pride contest by screaming 'MORE OTOLIA VOTES PLEASE !!!!!' every post. I gave it to you and you will feel dumb for five minutes in almost every possible ending of this contest and you are going to move on afterwards. I suggest you tone down the witch hunting and start your motivation analyzing tool on why you I face you that stubbornly and we can both move on untouched.

Your choice.

Here is what we are going to do :

• You stop screaming 'MORE OTOLIA VOTES PLEASE !!!!!' every post and I'll answer every questions you and anyone ask me.
  
• You unvote me and I'll invest more time into this game.

PS : I fear this might be interpreted as scum trying to negotiate but at this point, it's better than heading in the wall.

this seems like a big misrep from Otolia here; i don't see MoI as using ad hominems. his case against Otolia was mediocre until Otolia's response. he was obviously VERY perturbed by MoI asking for votes…along with the earlier quote, MoI's death is NOT looking good for Otolia right now

I'm not feeling the Otolia as scum thing either. Scum doesn't walk in and stick their [REDACTED] into a blender to start the game.
If you're voting him for annoyingness, then fine. But in all cases, lynching scum is preferred.

can you explain exactly how he stuck his [REDACTED] into a blender? maybe i just do not understand this analogy

1. Refusal to scum-hunt.
2. Active lurking.
3. Voting on policy reasons after explicitly saying he was waiting for a valid wagon

What I really want is to see you shut your annoying mouth. That's what I want.

I know you feel entitled to lead the town to a marvelous victory

because you are so full of yourself you can't possibly imagine yourself not being right, but you might want to tone it a bit. Just for the sake of your head, I worry about your health.

Er.

Does this bug anyone else?

Otolio, do you think MoI is town or scum?

I was going to post saying this bandwagon on Otolio is wierd, but with the bolded statement I might just join it.

good point here. why wouldn't Otolia assume MoI is scum, rather than town, especially if he was so close to voting him?

@MoI

You unvote me and I'll invest more time into this game.[/list].

fos:Otolia

I know MoI can be annoying, but the last couple of Otolia posts do not sound town-motivated at all.

+1 to Yos

I don't think I have. Why, do you have meta on her?

Well, I’d say yes … on gut feel I don’t see this as BabySpice-Scum. She chose to come out swinging at both Magister and yourself. Not exactly what you would call soft targets.

When I have seen her as scum (Stars Aligned 3, Atomic Mafia, That Bastard Game I Don’t Talk About) she spends much less time attacking targets and making soft statement in the early game (and sometimes Day into it, or as long as she is allowed to lurk). She almost universally avoids what I call Hard Targets (experienced scummers with reputations) unless they are under fire from other strong scummers. Does a good share of buddying.

Convexly when I see her as Town (Battle for Olympus) she is more willing to actively spread her vote around and is willing to call out players who attack her actively.

In fact her position that you are misrepping her here is very reminicant of a similar accusation (incorrect, mind you) she made against me in Battle for Olympus.

So in the end I don’t see this as scum BabySpice. It’s possible she’s changed her stripes but until I see something that sets my scum-dar abuzz she’s in the Townish pool for me.

knowing what we know now, i'm willing to accept this as a fairly good meta read on BabySpice

@jakalope,

I feel at least one or two of the votes on me are antitown..

Elaborate with something other than, "just because..."



BS is probably town. Otolia is probably town.

Oh, god. That BS wagon

Baby Spice (6): whispersilk, Yosarian2, Alabaska J, Wraith, StefanB, Bogre

I don't have a single town read on it.


@moi,

Please explain to me exactly why Otolia doesn't need votes? How does

1. Refusal to scum-hunt.
2. Active lurking.
3. Voting on policy reasons after explicitly saying he was waiting for a valid wagon

come from Town?

*shrug*

Explain why you think he'd be this blatant about it if he was scum.

Yes, I am saying he's too scummy to be scum. And this sort of stubborn, dickheaded Otolia is something I think is more likely to come from him as town.

That said, he should stop doing this and start playing, but I don't think he's scum.

zmuffin is leaning scum. I would lean town, but with him it seems that he's whatever he dosen't seem to be.

This actually made me lol.

I'm not feeling the Otolia as scum thing either. Scum doesn't walk in and stick their [REDACTED] into a blender to start the game.

This. Completely this. Add on to this it's Otolia.

I was going to post saying this bandwagon on Otolio is wierd, but with the bolded statement I might just join it.

Are you suggesting Otolia knows MoI is town in a game with two scum factions and an unknown amount of other anti-town roles?

I understood Otolia's point completely here. It's not a scum tell or anything.



Anyway, my vote on whisper going nowhere fast.

unvote

VOTE: IceGuy

notice the sweeping generalizations at the beginning (although to his credit he explains the Otolia one at least), the backing of an Otolia i'm increasingly disliking, then a vote out of nowhere on IceGuy; this is the second big move towards the IceGuy wagon, which now has two votes. while this might be a playstyle thing (unfortunately this has become more and more of a trend in the passing years), i strongly dislike play in which players make generalizations that can easily be interpreted as having much more basis than they actually do in a passing glance. now, i'm all for announcing gut reads; they can be very important. however, you should be sure to announce these as such, and if you don't announce something as a gut read, i'm gonna assume you have evidence that you are for some reason not posting. also note that this is more of a rant than actual analysis of this post; zmuffinman does provide evidence to back up some of his claims.

This was kind of an odd post. Can someone who's played with him before tell me if this:

BS is probably town. Otolia is probably town.

Oh, god. That BS wagon

Baby Spice (6): whispersilk, Yosarian2, Alabaska J, Wraith, StefanB, Bogre

I don't have a single town read on it.

is normal meta for this guy?

(Or, to put it another way. Do you know z muffin man? Z muffin man? Z muffin man?)

+2 for yos. summed up what i was trying to say much better than i did

First, you're assuming that people who aren't town reads of mine are scum reads. If they were scum reads, I'd say "holy crap there's so much scum on that wagon" or something along those lines. That wagon simply has no town reads of mine on it and I didn't even realise who was on the Baby Spice wagon until I saw the votecount on the previous page. First thought that ran through my head was "wow, I don't have any town reads on that wagon, something is up".

Secondly, I do think almost everyone in this game is currently wrong (or scum). What of it? Interestingly, about half my town reads have chosen not to jump on either of those wagons, and it's mostly my weaker town reads on Otolia right now, so that reassures me somewhat.

how do these two points gel? you claim you have a scumread on almost everyone; shouldn't the fact that the majority of the BabySpice wagon NOT being in your scumread group (which is what this post is implying) be indicative of the opposite point, that nothing much is wrong with it? can you help rectify these contradicting statements? also you STILL haven't justified the IceGuy at this point.

Players who jumped onto the Baby Spice wagon without justification: Alabaska, GW, Wraith, StefanB and Bogre

Players who jumped onto the Otolia wagon without justification: StefanB, sorgster, Ghostlin

The "opportunistic scum" award of this game goes to StefanB.

Right...

So what if BabySpice and Otolia are scum? Where is the opportunism here?

i hope you are playing devil's advocate here…

Sorry, was busy for a few days.
The Otolia wagon is all right, but it is a bit easy. Otolia is severely anti-town and therefore a likely mislynch for scum.
Baby Spice is more town in his last few posts. (Though we are still debating a bit on this read)
Sorgster still is scum with his easy hops and last few easy Otolia attacks.
Dry-Fit isn't much better either. Extremely low profile and bad attacks.
However, I want every one (besides Maxous and MuffinMan) to read IceGuy a bit closer.

His first posts are all fluff.
At post #219 every thing he says is mentioned already. (the quote of DY he had answered himself before). Because of that, that post is completely ignored. (aside from the quote he had from DY on which the answer was "I don't know if scum or town tell)
Then in his last post, he totally ignores the possibility of one or both of them being scum and just looks a lame reason to vote for someone.
Both of his votes (not counting his RVS vote) were extremely low on evidence and are easily skipped because of it.

IceGuy is scum doing as little as possible and flying under the radar as good as he can.

vote: IceGuy

the next step in the IceGuy wagon. this is the first post i've referenced that has some actual logic attached to it. Global Warming seems to imply Otalia is too scummy to be scum, which i don't like, but if Otalia is town, you are correct in asserting that she is a likely mislynch target. this is a wifom-y argument though; but it's not the reason for this post. this is the first vote for IceGuy that is not immediately suspicious now that we know he is town. Global Warming makes some decent points, although the fact that IceGuy had recently posted does take the wind out of his sails a bit.

They might be both scum on different teams?

OK, that's plausible, but it still doesn't explain why he's "opportunistic". A vote without "justification" isn't necessarily opportunistic scum, and your vote on Stefan is far more opportunistic than either of his votes.

this is correct. IceGuy doesn't really answer the question in his response, but i don't really see how the vote on Stefan is opportunistic at this point in time. there is no wagon on Stefan as of this post.

If I would be scum, I'd have been jumping on at least one of the Baby Spice/Otolia wagons.

like a said before, a reaction and no supporting evidence. why is this so "fail"?

I fail to see why you're trying to paint me as scum for actual scum-hunting and at ignoring people who are just jumping on the easy wagon.

Right...

So as scum you would have made yourself even more obvious by jumping on an "easy wagon" instead of trying to appear like you're scum hunting?

Yeah, that sounds believable.

this is so full of WIFOM! so does this mean you have town reads on the people on the BabySpice wagon now?????

after IceGuy makes a decent response, this is zmuffinman's response. yes, i quoted all of it. REALLY not liking zmuffinman right now.

Muffin is leaning town.

IceGuy is scum.

VOTE: IceGuy

Still strongly suspicious of EtherealCookie.

derp. icing on the cake? EC is town too.

I find it interesting that othia hasn't defended himself and is getting ignored now.

me too…

Muffin has had plenty of explanation, and it was quite enough for me.

TheJakalope, i would like you to go back to day one and list all of the evidence (all of it) that zmuffinman put forward, and post why you agree with it.

Okay Lynch All Liars, once was bad enough, twice is to much.

Unvote

Vote: Iceguy

So post 258 does not exist?
I am not sure about Baby Spice.
I think it's highly likly that Otalia is scum or at best a dangerous player to leave around even if town.
I think that that the most logical explanation for the post of Sage is that she is scum with Whispersilk.
I think that your vote is feeling false, I don't believe that you believe yourself what you posted today.
I know that their is a big chance that I am not right, about everyone on this list, but we have from simple math (about 25 % of players are scum is normal) at last 6 scum, perhaps more.
OMGOS is only if their is no reason other than the vote. In my opinion, there is a case on you.

Lie 1:
I voted without reason.

Lie 2:
I never suspected Sage bevor I was voted by you.

Next time before you pick a target you believe is easy at last check their ISO.
Or is Ice to scummy to be scum?

i'm not sure what to make of this post; Stefan is definitely making way too big a deal out of IceGuy's posts, but seeing as he's the one IceGuy is voting, i can understand this. the Otalia comment makes me feel like they are not on the same scum team if they are both scum, which is a huge jump, but every little opinion can be important, so i'll say that thought anyway, in case something happens later that makes it more relevant.

speaking of Otalia, the game is not slow any more at this point; there is certainly stuff going on. where are you when this is happening?

I find it interesting that othia hasn't defended himself and is getting ignored now.

He said he was not going to be posting for the weekend.

Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about him. If he doesn't post a lot better on Monday then he did on Friday, I'll probably move me vote to him.

gotcha

So post 258 does not exist?

Of course it does, I just missed it before. I correct myself: you've expressed suspicions of Sage before. Still doesn't explain your late vote change though..

So you admite that your whole reason for voting me has been disproven?

this is not what this is saying at all. did you miss the last sentence?

Unvote

Vote: IceGuy

well this guy is town, so i'll just say that this is another important stage in the iceguy wagon and leave it at that. this marks the point where people are starting to choose sides based on others' cases moreso than their own reads. this is an important stage in the formative process of the wagon

back from V/LA! i'll catch up and post today

dat guilty feel

Otolia (6): MagnaofIllusion, StefanB, sorgster, Ghostlin, Oversoul, DarthYoshi
Baby Spice (5): whispersilk, Yosarian2, Alabaska J, Wraith, Bogre

IceGuy (6): Maxous, zMuffinMan, Global Warming, TheJakalope, StefanB, EtherealCookie
Otolia (5): MagnaofIllusion, sorgster, Ghostlin, Oversoul, DarthYoshi
Baby Spice (5): whispersilk, Yosarian2, Alabaska J, Wraith, Bogre

These two vote counts are being mermorialized for potential future relational tells.

Also ... Good Luck Magister.

good post to reference here. everyone should take a look here

I think Ice and StephanB might be scum bussing each other. VOTE: Iceguy for having the most votes of the two.

i snipped a lot of this post, but it should be noted that sagemoo was able to analyze other's activity coherently in it. why? because he throws this vote on IceGuy without any of the analysis seen in the rest of it. yet another poor vote on the wagon…

Muffin's so obvscum that he's using Sisko when there are so many Picard face palms out there.

The reason I voted for Otolia is that his entire play this game was scummy and the mindnumblingly dumb apex was when he OMGUSed MoI, who is obvtown. Really, I'm not buying the too dumb to be scum, because half of the time, they really are that bad.

Although EC just pinged my scumdar for voting Iceguy causing that wagon to create too many votes. DavidX is still so obv lurkerscumdodgeprod scum it hurts.

Sorgs #299 is an excellent point. Sage seems protown to me right now.

Wishing you the best of luck, ML.

why call out DavidX and not other dodgers, such as myself? also, is your first sentence a full joke (you say it is a joke, but whether you think he is scummy for doing it is left up to speculation), or do you agree that posting just those pictures instead of a response is the sign of a lazy scum hoping people will just assume his response is stupid because of their .gif? also, why was Sage protown to you at this point? it's ok if you can't remember the answer to that last question; that's what i get for being late to the party

alright i'm gonna eat lunch now and go to class. my internet went out last night and i'm posting this from campus. sorry i'm not all the way caught up yet but i'm trying to be thorough. my next response will hopefully be over the rest of the game and i'll probably post that by midnight. i've got to spend most of the day doing homework/going to class but i should be able to pick this up again after dinner. sorry in advance for the wall of text, hopefully the spoiler tag makes it less unsightly.

p-edit: to be honest zmuffin, i'm surprised you can glean anything from the little i've posted. i don't think a lurker lynch is in the town's best interest when we have so much to use from day one. i'd focus on analyzing the text if i were you; much less WIFOM than lurker lynching me because of how little i posted.

tag changed to

Spoiler: Spoiler

tag.

[Alabaska J]

turns out i used the wrong spoiler tag. well, this is awkward. uhhhhhh a little help mod?

[Alabaska J]

Hey guys, i've decided to get fully recommitted to this game after talking with the mod. i'm going to do a thorough reread of day one, and if there's anything you specifically feel i should address, let me know.

And you realize you've said similar things multiple times and given minimal effort/no effort after saying this?

:'(

[Alabaska J]

It's time for your favorite type of read guys.

EtherealCookie, Iceguy, one is scum. Not both.

hey guys, finally got internet PERMANENTLY back in my apartment; sorry i didn't post from campus but i was doing my number theory problem set today all day (with a quick break to learn to ride a bike). continuing my reread now; just thought i'd drop this hilarious quote while letting you know why i didn't post last night

[Alabaska J]

quick aside: what is AtE?

also, whispersilk, why does being female mean you will do it? i'm confused. maybe it is joke? idk

[Alabaska J]

Out of the top wagons, I'd probably vote Ieceguy over Otolia at the moment.

hey yos, why? i know this was yesterday but i'm eager to hear the explanation before i post the rest of my stuff, i've decided (unless i beat you in finishing my analysis of day one, that is; i'm not actually gonna hold it against you if you don't post in time)

[Alabaska J]

Spoiler: rest of day one stuff

"People who haven't posted much are scum, people who think I'm scum are scummy, people who post lots are town, people who post big chunks of 'content' are town"

That's the laziest system of scum hunting I've ever seen. Those aren't "genuine" reads.

let's see if you stick to this philosophy…

meh, at least you're putting effort in. sort of. even if I disagree with most of what you posted.

unvote

VOTE: Alabaska

This is a good wagon. Best case scenario: get rid of coasting scum. Worst case scenario: get rid of someone that looks like coasting scum.

3 days to make this happen.

We can do it.

so much for the whole "voting lurkers is lazy scumhunting" eh?

Have you ever seen Otolia scum?

Yes. It's not like this.

source???? or is it ongoing

In the Iceguy vs. StefanB debate, Stef comes out looking better. Iceguy's not making a whole lot of sense here.

this post makes me suspicious of yosarian. i feel iceguy was definitely making more sense than stefan, and i don't see why no one really tried to back him up. this seems like a wagon endorsement from Yos; this is basically a vote without voting. why no vote here (other than the implication that you knew he was town or in the other scum faction; i'll refrain from loaded questions for now)?

So you are going to park your vote on BS and focus more or less solely on her while giving lip-service to other scum-hunting?

:eyebrow:

I'm generally going to be voting for the person I think is overall most likely to be scum at any given time, while also looking at and questioning other possible suspects.

Not really sure why you're trying to put a negative spin on that; I suppose this is just you attempting to pressure me to unvote BS, based your claimed town meta-read on her?

you never ended up addressing his answers to your questions. you ended up sticking with him until the last minute, even though you barely continued your case against him. this is really odd to me; i'm not sure why no one called you out for sticky on BS other than this, especially later on. hmmmmm

You're welcome to check all 5 of my completed games to confirm my meta, because in all 5 I was town, and in all 5 I lurked hard on day 1.

so if you've only been town, how do we know you don't play the same way as scum? do you think we are going to be like "well she's not posting too much day one, must be town; she said she wouldn't lurk if she wasn't". this is a horrible argument. self-meta in general is horrible

I have a history of being targeted D1 for joking and not being pro-town during the first stages of the game. However it's very difficult to defend against that because you can choose not to trust me.

well ain't that convenient. same comment about self-meta. i suggest trying to avoid those behaviors in the future if you are town

I really don't think Otolia should be the lynch

this reminds of the time you voted IceGuy with no pretext

Spoiler: My answer to yosarian's questionning

KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!

Your superior argumentation convinced me to vote for someone I do not want to see by tomorrow.

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

This post was sarcastic. I know that in MS sarcasm is frowned upon in games, but I like to use it as a rhetorical tool. It wasn't a serious post because it was a direct reaction to MoI's one-liner which was a provocation. The vote is anti-town in the sense that it could be used on someone who I thought was scum, but it should be understand as a way to answer to MoI's witch hunt.

It may be obvious sarcasm but why should I believe you that this vote wasn't serious, especially since it hasn't led to anything? If you make a bad vote don't expect us to let you cover it up by claiming it wasn't serious.

agree whoileheartedly. i've liked what i've seen from dry-fit so far

I’ve noticed your penchant for specifically using loaded language as a way to discredit and undermine people. The bolded is a clear example – It clearly isn’t a witch-hunt. Your play was scummy and you were being pushed for it.

i think i'm gonna quote this for truthery in every game i play on this site. SERIOUSLY, people use loaded language way too much; it used to be a big scumtell to me, but for many people it is playstyle choice (a VERY poor one), so that really muddies the water a bit

The frustratedpart comes from scum thinking you're scum. And now I may be a target in days to come (night or day), although I really should't be.

Scum don't think you're scum. They know who scum are.

Being worried about being a target shows an intense survival instinct. This is more likely due to come from scum, who's primary goal it is to survive. Townies, on the other hand, are more interested in lynching others than being shot, or being lynched themselves.

Whispersilk brings a good point up about sorgster: he voted Ludi for fluff, but essentially hadn't anything else himself?

UNVOTE: VOTE: SAGEAMAGOO

as a townie, i usually don't wanna die. why would you not defend yourself? i also think the other part was just very poor wording

I don't want to get lynched for playing the way I feel most comfortable playing.

I've never received pressure from anyone due to my playstyle. Sure, a few people have commented that I can appear scummy at times, but I am rarely voted, and I've never been lynched. So I don't think I'll be changing anything right now, tbh. But thanks for the advice.

These two quotes do NOT mesh.

The first says you thought you might get lynched for playing ‘as your feel comfortable’. The second says that your history doesn’t indicate that to be the case.

I feel that your “Here’s what I do” post is even more scummy now seeing this.

Why bother to go out of the way for the elaborate post when historically you don’t receive pressure for playing that way? Doesn't compute from a Town perspective.

FOS – Whisper.

good post from a known town player.

I don’t care about your meta. If you play in a manner I feel is scummy you will get suspicion for it.

this is a rule everyone should stick to. meta's are like a last resort to me; i've never been a big fan. i couldn't even do a meta on myself

Prodge.

Ghostlin is town.
Oversoul is likely town.
DavidX is leaning scum, but Iceguy or Otolia is today's lynch.

dammit i hate these types of posts. like seriously if you had just said prodge it would be better. this is less than nothing: it's nothing masquerading as something (don't question my math; i'm a math major i know what i'm doing)

wait, no, alabaska seems to be agreeing with Bogre that... StefanB is scum... but still has his vote on Baby Spice from 15 pages ago.

This is the important part to note Muffin.

yeah that would be because of my lurking. if i had been active (or even vaguely aware of my vote) i probably would have switched. i know this explanation probably makes you cringe, yes, but it is the truth.

Also all of yosarian's recent posts have been IIoA. I don't understand the town read on him either, actually.

agreed. this yosarian doesn't feel like town right now. starting to regret earlier thoughts, but no matter. especially with all the back and forth about whisper's playstyle. definitely looks like you are contributing more than you actually are here. i wouldn't be surprised if whisper flopped town and yos scum at the end of the day

2) Alabaska hasn't posted hardly anything since left V/LA and it wouldn't surprise me if he was scum, the reason that he's null is he's bothering to be responsive at this point, which a number of players AREN'T. If we were to hard line Lynch all Lurkers, it'd be Day 5 or 6 and half the playlist would be dead. Would I oppose an Alabaska lynch? Nope.

we'd also be losing, i'm sure. i hate lynch all lurkers. christ sometimes people just get busy (i have a bad feeling about me humorously addressing my own situation…hope this isn't rampantly misinterpreted: this is a joke)

Muffin, how do you not see Yosarian as town?

*shrug*

i lol'd

As for the disagreement about the case of DY that MoI pointed out--I acutally think Z's town because of it. It's not a huge case,

but frankly it answers the question I asked of another player roughly 50 posts ago

; and does so in a way I can see kinda where he's coming from, but I still like 376. Z's approaching it from a different angle. Agree with Alabaska wagon competing with sage wagon. Alabaska would be a good vig tonight as well, along with PV (I'm sorry to say that about someone who's so obviously sheeping my reads. ).

I have too many nulls where the player on the other end is obvnottrying.

MoI: should something happen to you tonight and killers don't choose to divest us of of some lurkers, who are your town and scum reads?

strange…this seems to hint you would vig me…why ec over me? not that i'm complaining

His latest two posts are the ones I find particularly scummy. I didn't really care about his early ones.

that's not what you said two posts before this though…

damn

I just went back over Alabaska's ISO. His play is soooooo scummy.

His reads are weak. What few reads he actually gives, most of them he's wishy-washy about. He sheeped Yos's Baby Spice vote because it seemed like a "good place" and he wnted to see BS's response to Yos.

Since then he's given a town read on MoI and a maybe-town read on GW because of his D1 miller claim... and a scum read on StefanB because he agreed with what Bogre wrote. But his vote is still on BabySpice.

He's the very definition of active lurking and I cannot see any sort of town mindset behind his posts so far. He's coasting, he's done very little scum hunting, he's done absolutely nothing that looks town.

you are talking about my early reads here, then say you don't care about them, only my last two posts???? what?

An Alabaska wagon could easily form. All it requires is twelve other people to vote him. If you do it, that's one, eleven to go.

i know i'm biased, but this just looks really desperate. why are you so against the other wagons at this point, zMuffinMan? did you think it would be constructive to try and switch wagons that close to the deadline? you were the ONLY person voting for me

alright that's the rest of my day one read. after day one i feel like this:

townish

Oversoul
Ghostlin
Dry-Fit
Toasty Toast (based on Ludi)
DarthYoshi

null

Empking's Alt
PeregrineV (he's in this game????)
whispersilk
BBMolla
Wraith - if i recall though i like his day two play…not sure if i'm remembering the right person though…
TheFonz (oh hey man long time no see)
Bogre
Global Warming
David Xanatos

scummish

Otalia
TheJakalope
sorgster
Yosarian2
Maxous
StefanB

i've had the ZMuffinMan at every spot on this list at one point or another, so i'll give my special "got no fuckin clue" designation for the nonlurker i have the most conflicting read on at the moment.

time for a reread of day two, and oh yeah lemme check if Yos answered my question yet

P-Edit: you are technically right BBMolla, but i think you are overreacting a little. you can tell him your thoughts. mine are this:
*both scumteams targeted MoI due his good play and title
*someone got RB'd
*MoI got lucky with the doc

i am personally inclined to believe the former, but it's all up in the air

[Alabaska J]

Appeal to Emotion.

ewwwwwwwwwwwww

[Alabaska J]

quick aside: what does IIoA mean?

[Alabaska J]

okay guys i'm getting a weird error saying something about embedding more than five quotes…so i'm gonna post this in chunks

VOTE: alabaska

well that's just like, your opinion man

I gotta give this game a quick re-read later. (unfortunately I got busy during the night period)
For the meantime though

VOTE: David X

you really like dropping things like this with no reason. THIS is active lurking - you haven't been accused of lurking once yet all of your posts are of this vein!!!!!!

I gotta give this game a quick re-read later. (unfortunately I got busy during the night period)
For the meantime though

VOTE: David X

I'll bet this is because DavidX didn't want to place a vote yesterday at all, but when he did, he said he would be willing to hammer, but when he voted someone other than himself for the first time it lynched the guy with 12 votes instead of 13, isn't it?

Vote: DavidX

i have no idea of the point you are trying to make here. is this your reasoning? because a traditional double voter would send it to 13 visibly on the votecount. someone else was definitely a silent double voter i'm thinking…and since they haven't said anything i'm guessing they are anti-town

Vote: Jackalope

This will be the lynch for today. He is just making blunt statements that sometimes do not even make sense.

i could see myself voting jakalope, but i want to finish my reread before i make that decision. his posts are all just not very good…but don't take my word for it. read his iso. it takes less than a couple minutes

Vote: Jackalope

This will be the lynch for today. He is just making blunt statements that sometimes do not even make sense.

I disagree. My gut still tells me that he is being framed. Besides there are better lynches at this point. Like BBmolla.

framed? what does that even mean? he hasn't attracted much attention (as of this point) at all

@Wraith: I voted IceGuy based off of scummy play near that time. I read enough of him to find him scummy(and I ISO'd him to make sure), but I hadn't gotten a chance to truly read the whole thread and get a grasp of everyone.

@Muffin: Could you make a case on alabaska? I'm not seeing it.

In my initial reread, I found David X scummy. But I think it may just be because of his family issues limiting the commitment he could put into this game, making it look scummy.

VOTE: Dry-Fit

Something about this guy bugs me, I can't put my finger on it. Want to put him more in the spotlight.

disagree with this post. wholeheartedly. i like dry-fit's play. wanna elaborate, ol' chap? (sorry i think of that when i see your avatar)

I am claiming the EC kill. I had a one shot Vig kill and I used it last night thinking that EC would never see the noose.

DX, do you have a doublevote, and if so,

why the hell are you lurking?

I'm not talking the end of Day 1, but the beginning of Day 1 before you went on V/LA. You had muitiple opportunites to vote and you didn't.

Jak seems likely scum, particularly with his EC/IG in #361. Knowing what we know now, the associative tells with no reasoning was to set up lynches primarly.

Vote: Jak

All three of BBmolla, Jak and DX are pinging my scumdar. They're all excellent choices.

i think it is pretty obvious that DX doesn't have the double vote. what double voter in his right mind would do what he did???

Also, I agree with the Jak being framed theory, he just seems way too blatant.

still disliking the framed word. what does this even mean people. think about it

Specifically, the post where he said "Out of EC and IceGuy, one is scum, but not both." Both flipped town, which is why the EC nightkill smelled like framing to me. Now that Ghostlin claimed it as a vigkill I'm not so sure. Still I'd rather lynch BBmolla than Jakalope at this point.

Which is why I'm suspicious of Jak. Really, the tossup last night was pulling the trigger on DX (I acutally wanted to see if he's contribute more on Day 2 which is why I didn't), and pulling the trigger on Jak (who I thought a wagon was possible on).

When I play protown killing roles, I am more likely to pull the trigger on a player I think is scummy but not as likely to get lynched (most likely due to lurking reasons).

All of Jak's reads have been like this; one of this person and this person is scum. It's not really scumhunting.

if this is your strategy you are a good vig and i strongly believe you to be town

All of Jak's reads have been like this; one of this person and this person is scum. It's not really scumhunting.

It's like I'm saying I have scum reads on both of them. but, I don't see them being scum together.

multi-scum game bro. how many times need it be said?

vote: TheJakalope

Ghostlin's pet theories of the day:

1) Looking through the vote counts, 1 person has been on every wagon yesterday that got enough votes to be lynchable (the leading wagon). (From 1.4 to 1.13). That person is Stefan B, and earns him a place on the scum tier, but I do want to pursue Jak, which is why I've not voted him yet.

2) If DX is not a doublevoter, there's another person likely to be a DV. That person is not necessarly scum (I need to read that person's ISO to make sure).

agree with point one

point two is boneheadedly obvious, but i disagree with the second part. it would be very anti-town not to say something when the wagon builds up. unless Maxous is the double voter, and that's why he wanted the claim early…hmmm

Some people did some great deflections to help us forget all about otholia and trapped Iceguy into anything he said is scum.

Vote Otholia

i sort of agree with this, but i don't like this post. it feels very much as though you are trying to seem like you are actively contributing, when you are sort of beating a dead horse. if you had referenced evidence of people doing this, i'd be more okay with it, although to be honest i believe Otalia vanished when the pressure was seeming to switch from him to IceGuy, which is what doesn't sit well with me. who are some people, exactly? i believe there are many people on the IceGuy wagon who truly believed he was scum, as misguided as that may have been

I could also get behind a BB lynch, actually. He's done nothing and doesn't look town. Gonna park my vote on Alabaska for now, and furiously frown at people who aren't commenting on how he's obvscum.

>:(

i really dislike this post. tunneling at this stage is not good for the town. i haven't posted enough to be more than a lurker lynch at this point; why are you so intent on lynching me? i'd prefer if you branched out and contributed to the game in addition to hating me. why not look at a variety of people on day 2? many things occurred on day one that you are not addressing. i think it is anti-town to tunnel this early and not focus on more than one person.

And I am sad that Magna was doctor and of course he would be. Really don't think it was in town's best interest to give someone as vocal and strong as Magna who has a clear propensity to die on Night 1, a powerful role like that, Magua. Bah now the apathy is going to kick in. :\

i find whining about nightkills to be a slight scumtell.

Alabaska J wagon still isn't likely to happen so I am probably going to vote Sorgster today. Now here is a good a vote VOTE: Sorgster

i'm sorry, why is my wagon unlikely to take off? it's very early in the day, it could very well happen. so much for my town read of you.

Done, and I will support lynches on DX and Jack.

way to pop in with a scum read on the two most likely wagons, sport. why not try some actual scumhunting instead of lurking? oh wait because you are scum

really i could vote Maxous too, and i'm tempted to switch my vote mid-post

also at this point, i strongly believe ZMuffinMan to be town. also my lists were not in any order, if someone was confused

At the Moment,

Vote: Alabaska

, him beeing still on BabySpice during the lynch made less sense.

honestly, if i was lurking day one, why are you surprised my vote didn't move?

I really feel like town is putting priority on "lynch all lurkers because they are lurking" over "lynch all scum who happen to be lurking." I don't think Alabaska is scum. I was out of the loop all of D1 but a "lynch all lurkers" wagon didn't form on me.

thank you wraith. this is a reasonable post, and this is why i don't lynch lurkers until late in the game.

I remember DX had a suspicion on MOI - who died.
Only other was IceGuy.
None today.
2 posts to defend himself though ^_^

what the hell does this…fuck it

unvote, vote: Maxous

. come on, scum killing their suspicions??????

Wraith: I vote for Alabaska for besides lurking beeing on a dead wagon and fosing but not voting.

never FoS'd day one, bro. i'll give your lie one, though:

FoS: StefanB

@Ghostlin: Scum usually make night kills for particular reasons.

as in the reasons in your post? because they are VERY poor

I've gone back and forth on this a few times, and I think I should claim this much: the secret doublevote is mine. Sage had it on IceGuy most of yesterday, apparently. I think the risk of it causing an accidental hammer are greater than the cost of revealing my ability. I intend to continue using it, but I will state when I do.

goddammit. this is like the worst possible scenario for the double voter. i suppose i have to give you a free pass, as you can't tell me what sage was thinking, and he seems pretty inexperienced to me, so who knows

Dry-fit: Fonz is right, he’s done very little, and what he has done looks scummy. Also, this line bugs me:

@BabySpice: Who's a better lynch, Yos or Ludi?

Fine fine, those were the two people BS was attacking, but it’s an odd question, almost manipulative-feeling. Even odder is the way he then never follows up, or even mentions BS ever again.

i really don't like this vote; looks like scum Yos trying to get a wagon started by having two vets vote someone. can you state more than just that line? i'm assuming it bugs you the most, as it's the one you chose to quote, yet you immediately qualify that same statement. if this is the strongest part of your case, i'm worried.

Yosarian's 125 comes from town. Why? I can't see scum going through an ISO of another player in order to prove the flaws in another's logic.

what???? are you serious????????

It is possible for town to defend scum. Iceguy defended you, not the other way around.

nice loaded statement, although a good point nonetheless

#612 takes it weirdly too far in a defense. 'You're framing me?' Not, 'I think you've smoked too much happy weed,' or 'The majority of this post seems entirely based on a WIFOMIC premise.' But the final stroke is 'You're framing me.'

in addition to liking this response quite a bit, i find this hilarious as someone who occasionally smokes some of that "happy weed" himself, lol.

The fact that DX had suspicion on MoI is null. While scum don't kill their suspects, MoI has a reputation as a strong town player, and was obvtown. Therefore, null.

As for IceGuy's lynching, isn't there a role whose vote decreases the amount of votes required to lynch the target it's voting on? Either that or a double-secret doublevoter.

Hang on, you actually have a point about the nature of a double-scumteam game. I suppose MoI could plausibly have been killed for that reason.

This post is seriously setting off my scumdar. Look through each paragraph carefully.

First one is hypothesizing about the NK (which on D2 is, at best, an art), and Wraith comes to no real conclusion about DX about it.

Second one is speculation about the setup, which is useless for two reasons: 1) IceGuy flipped VT, not VT-Who-Gets-Lynched-At-L-1. 2) Nobody has claimed a double vote or vote stealer ability yet. As I said before, the lack of the claim makes me think this is in fact a scum PR.

Third one is a supposition about the NK motivation all over again, but with no action based on that belief afterwards. A complete lack of initiative.

All three paragraphs are incredibly scummy. Given Wraith's wraith-like (har har har) presence in the background on D1, and this post alone, I want a wagon on him NOW.

Unvote. Vote: Wraith.

PS: Jakalope is still scum, though. The Fonz I am less sure about now. He's def playing more townish than his predecessor, so I need to go back and re-read that slot.

what? his first part was replying to horrible speculation done by Maxous. you should vote maxous instead if that is your reasoning. also, almost everyone has speculated about the double vote; definitely not a scumtell there. thirdly, well that is speculation, but there has been worse. i don't really see how any of this is anti-town given the context of this post.

@Ghostlin : sorgster is maybe WIFOMing the hell out of me, but you sure smoke too much happy weed.

Also, WTH does this mean?

bahahahahaha i missed this one

yeah THIS POST stands out to me a lot. i agree; this looks like scum jumping off a scum lynch the first chance he gets

....but you did the exact same thing.....

where exactly? if i recall, the main case against me is that my vote DIDN'T move

And since I saw I wasn't voting, I'm going to hoping to focus on the following player.

VOTE: TheJakalope

this reads like a scum voting someone they think is in the other scumgroup. what parts of the jakalope case to you agree with?

Ya.. his reads are all the hot suspicions of the moment (when he posts them). Then again, mine are too. :\

Of the two, who do you think is most likely scum? Dry-Fit or Jakalope?

Dry-Fit. Jakalope has done some weird stuff, but I can't really see a scum motive for his behavior.

again, why?

Accordingly,

Unvote. Vote: Jakalope.

Shouldn't need to explain this one.

oh really now. why not?

Actually I'll clarify.
Overly defending and concentrating on not getting lynched to the point where looking for mafia takes second prioirity.

evidence for this?

VOTE: Dry-Fit

In my mind, the scummier of the two.

is this the response to a question directed at you i've missed? who is the other person? what is with the dry-fit wagon?

[Alabaska J]

Unvote
Vote Dry-Fit

The otholia wagon is going nowhere.

same as above. can we have some reasons please? can someone spare a brotha some mofuckin REASONS???

]Abot me voting Alabaska at the beginning of the day.
His voting BabySpice until the end of the day was scummy:
The BabySpicewaggon has died some time before the end of the day.
If your waggon is so dead, you as a townplayer should do one of 2 thinks.
1. If you believe you have scum, try to make the waggon more alive fight for it. Alabaska mentioned BabySpice after the vote once without even making a point of her.
2. If you don't have anythink new, move your vote so using your wappon. Alabaska didn't despide showing suspicion elsewhere.
This combined with the lurking, complete crab or worth discusing?

i've made this point earlier in this post but i'll reiterate: why does a lurker's vote staying where it was seem suspicious to you? this is definitely "complete crab"

I'm really not feeling scum!Dry-Fit, to be honest. Yeah he's heavily lurking and some of his attacks on people don't look too good in hindsight, but if he was scum why did he avoid the easily-excused IceGuy wagon? Easy mislynch, and easy to just say "oh well he WAS scummy at the time. Why are you looking at me instead of all the others who were on that wagon?" If we're going to lynch a lurky player today then I'd much rather it be someone who wagoned onto IceGuy, and wagoned badly, because I feel that's a much better chance of hitting scum. Candidates in that category: TheJakalope, StefanB, sageamagoo, BBmolla, DX (not necessarily in that order)

And as for an Otolia-wagon, of course it won't go anywhere. I really disagree with MoI's crusade against Otolia for apathy, because

being apathetic and then outright admitting you are being apathetic is bad play, especially as scum

. Yeah, Otolia is playing really, really badly, but he's badtown, not badscum. I strongly feel that scum would not have admitted to "yeah guys, I just don't feel like doing anything in this game, I'm just going to sit here and do nothing." It's also a reason I believe Otolia is just VT.

i like the first part, but the second is definitely WIFOM. i could see a noobscum doing something similar

Sorry about the inactivity and my "approach" to this game. I understand it's worse than usual.

That being said.

VOTE: Dry-Fit

if you are town and get mislynched, you've got no one to blame but yourself.

Yeah, Songster is still on my scum list as well.

hey yos, what game did we play together that you were scum in? because i seem to remember you actively lurking in that one as well

but if [Dry-Fit] was scum why did he avoid the easily-excused IceGuy wagon?

There are a fuckton of possible explanations for this. If this is your only reason for thinking he's not scum, then wow.

Other than him avoiding the IceGuy wagon, what makes you think he's town (or at least less likely to be scum)?

This presumes DF is town. Why is DF town?

You are not reading.

Also, Jak's vote reeks of self-preservation.

Self-preservation isn't really scummy if you're the only other main wagon. That said, he should fucking do something.



I'm also a bit annoyed that Alabaska is appearing in almost everyone's scum list and not a single person has claimed to have a town read on him, but there's no support for his lynch.

meh.

this was a good post until the end, which is completely and utterly false. i've been called town by many people, although i have had quite a few calling me scum as well. i've also been voted by StefanB. seriously, did i kill you in a past life or something? you just criticized someone for not reading, but you are obviously not reading yourself.

However I can't understand how you can hold a scumread on Alabaska while not having one on Jakalope. Jakalope might have posted more but his ISO is not much worse.

How would you respond to the notion that Alabaska probably knows better, whereas theJak appears to be a VI?

*cough*WIFOM*cough

However I can't understand how you can hold a scumread on Alabaska while not having one on Jakalope. Jakalope might have posted more but his ISO is not much worse.

How would you respond to the notion that Alabaska probably knows better, whereas theJak appears to be a VI?

I haven't played with either, I think, so I wouldn't know.

I haven't played with TheJak either, and I don't recall playing with Alabaska. But Jak looks like a VI to me. Do you disagree?

we've played together twice i think, but i can't recall the games. i was absent for the better part of 3 years, so yeah

AlabaskaJ--Blegh. Sheepy to the max. Hasn't done a thing. This is the kind of attitude thats all like O.o someones hiding among the lurkers. His posts are just a long line of "I agree," with the occasional "sorry, i've been busy"

Vote:AlabaskaJ

. I prefer it over the two leading wagons for sure.

i don't like lynch all lurkers at all, but at least this case makes some sense. hopefully you've changed your tune now

@Alabaska- I was referring to ISO Otolia 7-12 where he fights with MOI.

gotcha. i've seen scum get very defensive; that's more of a playstyle thing i believe than a tell.

So after Toasty, we have Alabaska doing walls of the past. Great !

because walls of the past can only hurt you, right? why would this be a bad thing? day one is our strongest source of information right now

So assuming one of the two is on the team that blocked the kill, even if not the actual RBer, I can look at those teams (initial voter bolded).

TheJakalope, TheFonz,

BBmolla

, Yosarian2, David Xanatos

Global Warming

, StefanB, Oversoul

So, this is what I got out of it.

i'm not sure how i feel about this. i don't like that much speculation, but it seems earnest to me

Since we can't agree on one of them, I suggest switching all our votes on somebody else (like sorgster for example) at once. Remember that the day is dawning soon.

Can we switch to you?

not sure where Otalia said this, but what? day is dawning soon? huh?

quote="Alabaska J"]i don't think a lurker lynch is in the town's best interest when we have so much to use from day one. i'd focus on analyzing the text if i were you; much less WIFOM than lurker lynching me because of how little i posted.

You would think that wouldn't you.[/quote]

christ really? so much for my town read. i would think that REGARDLESS of my day one actions. what a fucking loaded statement.

-Yos: him having a scumread on Yos reeks of OMGUS. Yos is one of my stronger townreads and I don't think anyone really has a scumread on him

That seems really awful logic.

hell yeah it is. this is like vicarious OMGUS

Hmmm..

Unvote

VOTE: Alabaska J

jesus christ…Ghostlin why couldn't you use your vig here! there will always be people saying Jak is inexperienced to counter the scum argument. this is not gonna help the town at all. something needs to be done here; i don't want to stuck in endgame with this guy and have no clue what to do

Hmmm..

Unvote

VOTE: Alabaska J

Hmm, why are you voting Alabaska?

Dry-Fit wagon is still looking like a mislynch.
tbh it looks more like a lynch due to playstyle rather than anything scummy he has done. (a low-key playstyle)
In fact half of it seems to be he has'nt been acting

scummy enough

(along with not town enough).

Otalia -there is some free seats on the DX wagon if you want to join~
Because yeah, that is a scum-read that has been cemented during the course of the day period. (Hint: ISO his day 2 posts)

…i agree with this post…what is going on…

unvote, vote: TheJakalope

that's what, two switches within one post? new record!

Emp's entry is entirely null to me right now. It usually takes me a little while to be able to read him anyways because of his brevity. About your townread on Alabaska, Emp, do you have experience with Alabaska that makes you think he was being genuine, or it really is nothing more than gut?

I think I have experience (don't know the games but I'm pretty sure I have) but its essentially gut.

confirmed. i think i IC'd your newbie in fact

@DarthYoshi: I agree that some people are wagoning Jakalope for his playstyle.
However I beleive Jakalope to be scum for seperate reasons, so I don't care.

You don't have to lynch scum with everyone providing the right reasoning.

That being said I am quite curious why he switched his vote to Alabaska.

emphasis mine. can you clarify this statement?

This is my first game with multiple scums and I lurk because it would be easiest for scum to be active and keep killing each other leaving for an easy town victory.

i don't know what to say. oh wait, yes i do:

I'm going to go offline before my head explodes from the amount of stupid in the previous post.

Also, there are probably some people here who are only looking for one scumteam instead of two. There is a reason for that.

you are either softclaiming an altered win condition (which seems somewhat anti-town and also impossible as it would be hard to know who is who) or are stating the obvious that scum will only look for one team. either way, wtf?

Information Instead of Analysis

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... reviations

lol of all people. thanks, though.

now i'm caught up. my reads from earlier are the same except oversoul and dry-fit go to null and wraith goes to town. i'll put Fonz in the no fucking clue with ZMuffinMan now that i realize the full implications of him being sageamagoo day one. also i think i just used implications wrong but i can't think of the right word so hopefully you get my drift.

to confirm: i am voting TheJakalope right now. Maxous' last two posts combined with Jakalope's last few are the reason to my switch back, as i feel it looks ambiguous up there.

sorry about the walls, but that's what i get for lurking. please read, though, as i ask questions of many people. as of right now PeregrineV is the only person who has answered a question that i have posited.

P-Edit:

And that, is fluff.

oh man i don't even know what to say hahahahha

[Alabaska J]

well dividing it in half without changing anything seemed to work, so i guess it was a glitch. but yeah please read my posts and answer my questions when they are addressed to you. i think i asked Yos the most questions, so Yos please read

[Alabaska J]

Holy Alabaska is going a little crazy. And to respond - it's not WIFOM unless you're debating/promoting either side. I strongly believe that scum would avoid doing such things, and scum that do are just bad, and therefore few and far between.

told you i was getting back in the game! i really was in too many plus midterms. but i'm good now.

i think you are taking WIFOM too literally from the princess bride here. it is WIFOM as in a multi-scum game, scum have more of a reason to sit back and not take sides. makes them less likely to be shot by the other side. i tend to label anti-town actions that could be seen as simply bad play instead of scummy tactics as WIFOM in general; this doesn't mean it shouldn't be said. WIFOM-y points can certainly have merit, and yours does; i just wanted to point out the flaw in the logic

also @GW (RF): the vig claims to be one-shot, so we can't rely on him being "vigbait". no scum would kill him. also, why does sorgster need to die?

[Alabaska J]

i don't like lynch all lurkers at all, but at least this case makes some sense. hopefully you've changed your tune now

Not yet determined.

fair enough. have you not yet finished reading my posts, or are you not sure what to make of them?

this was a good post until the end, which is completely and utterly false. i've been called town by many people, although i have had quite a few calling me scum as well. i've also been voted by StefanB. seriously, did i kill you in a past life or something? you just criticized someone for not reading, but you are obviously not reading yourself.

Do you think this makes muffin scummy? Sounds like he's just exaggerating.

i didn't call him scummy, did i? i think it is part of his playstyle, to be honest. however, that won't stop me from calling him out on a misrep

jesus christ…Ghostlin why couldn't you use your vig here! there will always be people saying Jak is inexperienced to counter the scum argument. this is not gonna help the town at all. something needs to be done here; i don't want to stuck in endgame with this guy and have no clue what to do

Sounds fake. I mean, do you think Ghostlin's shot on Cookie was a bad one? Also, we're a long ways from endgame. Also, although some people certainly are saying Jak is inexperienced, for some of us its more about 1) him being an easy mislynch. I mean, I've been there in games and I can certainly see him being in that exact same situation. People criticizing everything he does, etc. 2) who is on the wagon, and 3) there are people who are scummier. Jak's main crimes have been active lurking and poor scumhunting moves, such as the whole SCUM IS IN THESE 3 PPL thing. But I don't think its enough.

i'm not sure what you mean by fake. and yes i know we are far away from endgame, but Jak is not gonna be killed by scum when he is a) on a scumteam or b) an easy mislynch for scum. the sooner we get rid of him, the less WIFOM we have to deal with later on. if i'm in LYLO with Jak, i'm not sure what i would do, because you are right, some of his mistake (probably all) could be considered a product of his inexperience, and that argument will keep him alive for a good while unless we get him out of the way early. the thing that bothers me most is that he never tries to defend himself and continues to make poor posts. it's this that makes me wonder if he is not acutely aware of his label as possible noob town and using to his advantage as scum. really, i would think a noobtown who is obviously reading the game (he replied to my question about IIoA, for example) would try and not make horrible posts after seeing everyone's reaction to them or address his inexperience. the apathy to the comments made about him really bothers me. why the lack of OMGUS or defensiveness that we usually see from inexperienced players when a wagon forms on them in earnest? it's like he doesn't care because he thinks people won't waste a lynch on him. that makes me think he is scum.

[Alabaska J]

Hello, was a little more tiered yesterday, so now:

Alabaska: Can you tell me, how you came from me beeing scum with Otalia (you agreed with Bogre on that) on day 1 to me beeing scum with Otalia, now you say the opposite. Huh? And on 790 I am scum again, double Huh???

did you know people can change their minds? fascinating. besides, i agreed with a post; i didn't write a thesis about it or anything.

Second why did you stay so long on the death BabySpicewaggon without doing anythink?
I have allready explained that, you were on a dead waggon, did nothink to drive it again and had suspicion on some else. So why stay on the waggon. Lurking is an excuse to do nothink, Alabaska?
Yes I think that even as lurker, you have a responsibility as town. You do somethink and be helpful, or at last try that.

you are right about one thing: i have a responsibility as town. i shirked it. i didn't read this game until very recently. i was completely absent at lynch time. i didn't even realize where my vote was. if i wasn't there, how could i have changed it? like literally, i was NOT THERE. I COULD NOT CHANGE THE VOTE IF I WAS NOT POSTING IN THE GAME. you get my point? i don't see why you are making such a big deal about my vote staying there. other people were not on the wagon as well. if i recall, the guy who was lynched was town. so you are saying i was scum because i didn't a town player while i was not there to vote him??? if BabySpice turns scum, it would be hilarious, as your argument would be that i am scum because i voted for a mafia player instead of a town player. of course, we don't that yet. so as of now you are criticizing me for not voting a town player. still pretty absurd, don't you think? why don't you go after Yos, whose vote was on BabySpice until the last minute, when he switched to a wagon that killed a town player. doesn't that read as a little worse? i really don't know why you are 1) ignoring my answer and 2) making a big deal out of it anyway. if there is a language issue that is keeping you from understanding my post, i have friends who speak german who can translate (i'm serious, not mocking you. i understand if you are having trouble reading and playing in a second language)

Done, and I will support lynches on DX and Jack.

With Jack - I don't have too much of a problem with his reads thing but too much focus has been on the defensive, not enough scumhunting for my liking.

@DarthYoshi: I agree that some people are wagoning Jakalope for his playstyle.
However I beleive Jakalope to be scum for seperate reasons, so I don't care.
You don't have to lynch scum with everyone providing the right reasoning.

That being said I am quite curious why he switched his vote to Alabaska.

Sorry if I've missed it while reading the game, but is there a particular reason why you find David scummy enough to keep your vote on him, rather than voting Jackalope, who you also believe is scum, and who has a bigger wagon and a much greater chance of being lynched today?

hint: david is town and jak is maxous' scumbuddy

[Alabaska J]

toasty, have you read through my posts? i feel your reasons for voting me are no longer valid

[Alabaska J]

Unvote.
Vote: BBMolla

Others were able to speculate without claiming anything. And your claim for no reason doesn't make sense to me. A town PR would never do it without the spectre of lynching.

where does he claim…

[Alabaska J]

In post 814, why don't you go after Yos, whose vote was on BabySpice until the last minute, when he switched to a wagon that killed a town player. doesn't that read as a little worse?

"Worse" how? What's wrong with joining a compromise wagon just before deadline when it seems that that's the best the town is likely to do? It's far more pro-town to get some kind of a lynch then none.

Quote tag fixed.

i'm saying from his point of view. i'm not trying to attack you, just put things in perspective to show him how, with his logic, there are people scummier than me. i have no problem with your move.

[Alabaska J]

@Alabaska's #814: Again with the hunting in terms of scumbuddies before there are flips. How is this useful scumhunting? Combined with the defensive nature of this post, it's definitely scummy. Still not as scummy as Dry or Jak, but you're worth lynching.

how come you call me out on it but not other people who make bold declarations like that? mine was obviously more lighthearted than, say, ZMuffinMan's facepalm. and i don't think addressing questions about you is defensive at all. care to explain how my post was defensive? what do you think about my ACTUAL scumhunting and not my joke comments? did you even bother to read those posts?

[Alabaska J]

Unvote:AlabaskaJ

This isn't happening today. Gotta take some time to make sure I feel Jackalope over dry-fit.

so you still believe i am a good lynch even though i am no longer making the posts you thought it was scummy for me to make?

[Alabaska J]

Alabaska: I think your catchuppost is helpful, but to put it simple:

Day 1: Bogre: StefanB is scum with Otalia.
Alabaska: I agree with that. (Used the Fos)

i'll stop you right here, as this is the source of the confusion. i agreed the post was fishy, but i never said that i was 100% sure they were a scum team. i was just acknowledging that Bogre made a good point that the post did not look very good. i think you were reading too much into my agreement (which is partially my fault, as i didn't state what my actual opinion on the post was)

[Alabaska J]

Unvote:AlabaskaJ

This isn't happening today. Gotta take some time to make sure I feel Jackalope over dry-fit.

so you still believe i am a good lynch even though i am no longer making the posts you thought it was scummy for me to make?

1) Your posting is better, but not obvtown. You still do the whole one-line commentary thing that was bothering me
2) You haven't done enough to make my read do a 180, so I would say you've risen on my list, but only to null-leaning-scum.
3) You being all like "yeah, so did your read change yet? Did it? Are you gonna unvote me now?" makes me *twitch*

So basically, I don't think you would be today's best lynch, but I also don't have some new town-read on you.

that's fine; i guess i thought your case was more based on my lack of posting than it really was. i thought you meant one-lined posts as opposed to one-line arguments. i gotcha. sorry lol i didn't mean to come off like that, but i personally feel that if someone is voting for me, there is a simple miscommunication behind it, so when i'm searching for what it is it can come off a little like that lol

[Alabaska J]

Peregrine what did I claim. I'm still waiting for an answer.

What are you trying to do here? I really don't understand.

Peregrine and myself, at least, believe you softclaimed a PR. That doesn't mean we know exactly what you softclaimed. So if you yourself know that you never hardclaimed or even softclaimed a

specific

role then why are you asking? Because Peregrine avoiding an unanswerable question isn't scummy, and it seems to me that you are trying to make it so.

No. Peregrine said I claimed. So me "softclaiming" makes me a good lynch target?

I'm not gonna say anything more. It was rolefishing and still is.

Softclaiming as town was bad. Softclaiming as scum would be in an attempt to not get lynched.

I am voting you because
1. Your part of one of the groups in 741.
2. Unnecessary softclaim in 789.

Now, unless a bunch of people ISO you are find you scummy in the next two days, you probably won't be lynched.
But, I find you scummy enough for now to keep my vote on you.

refusing to speculate≠softclaim. i think you are missing an "if" in that post. the way it is worded, at least to my interpretation, is him saying that

if

he had a role, revealing any knowledge of why the nightkill didn't occur would be tantamount to claiming, which even you agree would have been a bad idea.

[Alabaska J]

UNVOTE

There are more players I find scummy on the Jakalope wagon. In fact, most of the players I find scummy are on it.

This makes me suspicious that this is a bussing of Jak, rather than riding a mislynch.

VOTE: JAK

dat wifom

[Alabaska J]

and now we wait for jak's V/LA to end so he can claim…assuming he posts immediately afterwards

[Alabaska J]

BB is Jak's buddy and I will not rest today until he gets rope.

My society confirms I'm not a werewolf. But okay.

sigh well i feel like this could've been hinted at before you went full monty

VOTE: Maxous

i was on him all yesterday and this result changes nothing. again, only one faction kill tonight. what is up???

[Alabaska J]

BB is Jak's buddy and I will not rest today until he gets rope.

My society confirms I'm not a werewolf. But okay.

BB is Jak's buddy and I will not rest today until he gets rope.

My society confirms I'm not a werewolf. But okay.

sigh well i feel like this could've been hinted at before you went full monty

I'm assuming this is an actual claim from both of you?

I don't really get why you're both claiming to be you're in a secret society with role info that BB is not warewolf when BB only has like 1 vote on him, that seems to be WAY oversharing, but since you guys have already claimed:

-Are you specifically saying that BB is confirmed to be not warewolf, or not scum at all?

-Do you have any other investigations you'd like to share with us, since you've already claimed?

-Why did you both claim so early?

i didn't claim i was reacting to his claim

[Alabaska J]

also, UNVOTE: Maxous i like the answers to what i've addressed for now. rereading DX

[Alabaska J]

mod: V/LA until tuesday, maybe wednesday

[Alabaska J]

hey back from V/LA; i am in the group with DX and BBMolla, and BBMolla was the one who used our ability to target players. this roleblock would explain why no one was inducted.

currently rereading, but i realized this info might be very important

[Alabaska J]

I did'nt claim Day 1 because my target was Ethereal Cookie and VT's don't send in night kills.

Well that's extremely convenient isn't it?

dry-fit is right. more proof that your roleblock does nothing to "confirm" bbmolla, although his play makes me suspicious of him, i have to admit

To be quite honest, atm I don't think Max is scum.

Think about it logically guys, how many of you had a legit town read on me? Why would a scum roleblocker block me over someone much townier?

That doesn't make much sense.

I said I doubted the roleblock at first and have reasoning, but now it's possible but I have no way of knowing.

VOTE: David X

In my opinion, this is a better lynch guys. I think me and Max are both town.

The bolded is actually a valid point.

no, it's not. here is my theory for what actually happened. BBMolla, on our first night, was the one using our recruiting action. It failed in an unexpected fashion. I think Maxous roleblocked him both nights. No one seems to be mentioning that Maxous didn't even mention EtherealCookie (he replied to one post and referenced a post by IceGuy about EC but that's it) day one, and his explaination that EC was "under the radar" is ridiculous: he was acting oddly enough to be targeted by a vig kill! i think Maxous RB'd a scummy BBMolla night one, saw the lack of a nightkill, and figured he nagged the nightkill of the other scumteam. meanwhile, our ability is blocked. Maxous does this the next night as well, and gets outed.

that's just my theory to help explain the inconsistencies i see here. EC was a perfect cover, as he flipped vanilla.

VOTE: Maxous

yos, can you look over my big posts from day 2 and answer some of the questions i asked you?

[Alabaska J]

In the Iceguy vs. StefanB debate, Stef comes out looking better. Iceguy's not making a whole lot of sense here.

this post makes me suspicious of yosarian. i feel iceguy was definitely making more sense than stefan, and i don't see why no one really tried to back him up. this seems like a wagon endorsement from Yos; this is basically a vote without voting. why no vote here (other than the implication that you knew he was town or in the other scum faction; i'll refrain from loaded questions for now)?

Out of the top wagons, I'd probably vote Ieceguy over Otolia at the moment.

hey yos, why? i know this was yesterday but i'm eager to hear the explanation before i post the rest of my stuff, i've decided (unless i beat you in finishing my analysis of day one, that is; i'm not actually gonna hold it against you if you don't post in time)

Dry-fit: Fonz is right, he’s done very little, and what he has done looks scummy. Also, this line bugs me:

@BabySpice: Who's a better lynch, Yos or Ludi?

Fine fine, those were the two people BS was attacking, but it’s an odd question, almost manipulative-feeling. Even odder is the way he then never follows up, or even mentions BS ever again.

i really don't like this vote; looks like scum Yos trying to get a wagon started by having two vets vote someone. can you state more than just that line? i'm assuming it bugs you the most, as it's the one you chose to quote, yet you immediately qualify that same statement. if this is the strongest part of your case, i'm worried.

Ya.. his reads are all the hot suspicions of the moment (when he posts them). Then again, mine are too. :\

Of the two, who do you think is most likely scum? Dry-Fit or Jakalope?

Dry-Fit. Jakalope has done some weird stuff, but I can't really see a scum motive for his behavior.

again, why?

[Alabaska J]

In the Iceguy vs. StefanB debate, Stef comes out looking better. Iceguy's not making a whole lot of sense here.

this post makes me suspicious of yosarian. i feel iceguy was definitely making more sense than stefan, and i don't see why no one really tried to back him up. this seems like a wagon endorsement from Yos; this is basically a vote without voting. why no vote here (other than the implication that you knew he was town or in the other scum faction; i'll refrain from loaded questions for now)?

I think I already explained this. I was keeping my vote on Baby Spice, who I thought was much more likely scum then either major wagon, but at the same time I wanted to make clear which of the two wagons I would pick if it came down to deadline and I had to make that choice. Every pro-town player should do that kind of thing; obviously if it comes to deadline, it's better to lynch then to no-lynch, and it's really not good for your last minute deadline vote to be a surprise. But when you still have time left, it's better to keep your vote on your main suspect, and only compromise on a secondary lynch when it looks like you have to.

I really didn't think that Stefan looked that scummy. I thought he was making a fair amount of sense. Do you disagree? If so, about what?

no you're right, point conceded.

It turns out he was scum, but I still can't really see what the scum motives behind his actions might have been. Why, what do you think the scum motive behind his actions was?

he looked like classic noobscum to me. the plays he was making were bonehead but also didn't make sense if he were town, even inexperienced. an inexperienced town would definitely try and stick up for themselves if they were reading the game, while an inexperienced scum would want to try and float under the radar. the big thing for me was when he showed he was reading the game but still never addressed the points against him (i.e. when he would post random things without any content amidst allegations against him). he was blatantly hoping people would avoid lynching him because he was playing so poorly, and it seemed to me anyway he may have been playing poorly near the end on purpose to try and save his own ass

[Alabaska J]

i dunno i really see roleblocker as an anti-town role. why as a townie would you randomly roleblock? still find that a bit iffy