Animal Rescue: petsPick (Game Over!)

[Quilford]

There is a 'Roxi' in the VC.

Whoever named their pet 'Roxi' should be caught and shot immediately.

VOTE: Vi dogs > cats

[Quilford]

What made you think it was an error, KK?


Anyway, here's the reads: Jason, scummy; lewarcher82, townish; KK, null; Sotty7, townish; VPB, null with a twist of scum.

[Quilford]

Oh and Vi's nullish. Sorry, Vi!

VOTE: jasonT1981

[Quilford]

KK clarify your vote on me.

Reck, hai. No game winning scum gambits in this game, please

[Quilford]

VPB I'll get to you in about 9 hours.

[Quilford]

well it's just that I'm about to sit an exam so

[Quilford]

Y'all ready for a little selfmeta?

[Quilford]

Okay so I've started doing this really early game reads thing, because it gets excellent reactions. The reads themselves aren't random, just based off of very little, like small language tells. For example iamausername reacted adversely when I used it in That 70s Smalltown (she was scum, I had a scumread on her as a result), and CES and DDDP have been subjected to it too, in [redacted]. I used it in some Open with glowball once, basing both of my reads off of confirmation enthusiasm -- and both of them were town as I predicted.

I've started to put a lot more stock in language tells, actually. They're right up there with VCA, in my eyes. In Box Office Mafia, they went a long way to finding chamber!scum (too bad nobody believed me).

So anyway I'll go pick out who I think scum are from that. I agree with the lewarcher vote, by the way.

[Quilford]

@xvart: jason always tries to stick up for me as scum when I'm under pressure, the 70's Smalltown link above shows that pretty clearly. So I'm worried about him too.

Pretty sure glowball is scum if lewarcher is scum.

VPB and KK remain null. CES gets scumpoints.

VOTE: Kublai Khan

[Quilford]

Whoops.

VOTE: lewarcher

[Quilford]

He voted for jason.

Insta town points.

[Quilford]

lewarcher, can you link me to games where you've gotten memorably angry with other players? Do you often get angry with other players in game?

[Quilford]

Huh?

[Quilford]

I did but I don't understand what Angry Birds has to do with this and now my brain hurts ow ow ow

[Quilford]

@quil: no, I will not point you to any meta in which I get angry with players, because I didn't get angry at anyone here (unless by angry you mean defining an idea terrible or calling someone a VI), and because I find this request rather silly in the first place.

Oh wow, I didn't realise you knew exactly what I was going to do with the meta before I even looked at it! Can I borrow your psychic skills and find out the rest of your team?


Your recent posts sound heavily like outraged scum being caught. I'll need to meta you to see how you generally react when run up.

[Quilford]

Rocks did turn out to be good cookie ingredients, so I think llamas can be good pets.

I wanted to see if you noticed the reference :-) you bastard!

playing along as silly town

Vote: lewarcher82

(L-8)

Now I am forced to wonder which one is the explanation of your behaviour. (1) Reckless town - who just won the "VI of the game" trophy despite quil's efforts or (2) fishy scum.

I will agree on the town VI hypothesis for now. Another detail in her posts shows that she tends to be clueless about the fishy potential of her proposal.

Moreover, I have never seen scum fish so blatantly.

It sounds like you already had your mind made up.

I sure did. Feel free to meta me and see what I think of fishing as a scumtell. It is anti-town, but only moronic scum does it. But this does not prevent me from discussing the point with the player in the first place.

Moving to a more interesting post:

<snip>

trying to sound nonchalant

<snip>

And this is how I got to L-2 in 5 hours and 50 minutes.

<snip>

Attention, please. Roxi is likely a double voter, which means that you guys potentially put me at L-1 in 6 hours for no reason. Before you decide to quickhammer me, let me know. It's ridiculous to be put in the situation that requires such a warning 24 hours from game start, but well, I have no other choice.

Vi: are you seriouly suggesting to having me hammered?

This is extremely scummy, especially coming from someone with your experience: cutting d1 short is never pro-town.

However, please answer my direct question before discussing my comment. You want me hammered right now?

'oh shit, pressure's not coming off, I'm going to make myself sound uptight and formal to get the point across that I am upset with this situation'

[Quilford]

The delay was because he called you town for no reason, got called out for it, and then had to fabricate some explanation since VP had been persistent about getting that read explanation.

You're almost completely correct. I did have an initial town read for the unexplained vote on jason, but I thought people would point out that this could come from either alignment, so I just made an attempt at sounding humorous. I did have exams to rush off to, though.

The fact that you are pushing me as scum for my questionable town read on Sotty when I posted 1) selfmeta which shows me doing this only as town and 2) a bunch of other reads which are also based on very little substance and were yet not called into question is rather deliciously stupid.

What's even dumber is that you propose I am 'buddying' Sotty from my weak read on her from one post, despite the two points made above.

In no posts do you draw any connection between my actions and my alignment, apart from the hilarious buddying accusation mentioned above.

[Quilford]

what was that terrible post llamarble

[Quilford]

you too glowball

honestly how is everyone forgetting

[Quilford]

BTW doing RGAM at 2:28 CDT. Only alignment. Limited in Nature.

Hmmmm.

Although Llamarble is annoying the fuck out of me his last post has some good points and I still want to lynch lewarcher

[Quilford]

Me: *remembers that one game where I called for a massclaim on D1 of Vanilla Townies in a setup where V. Townies are never ever ever supposed to claim D1, and how that broke the game open, and remembers quite vividly that you were in that game too; and then remembers how I'm even a member of an unorthodoxy club called Bad at Mafia*

Hi. Link. Thanks.

[Quilford]

You guys are going to have to endure srs Quilford this game because of xvart. >___>

Let's consult the facts.

1.

zoraster posted that alignment was randomised. That means that people with a specific animal as their pet won't all be the same alignment unless random.org determined otherwise, which is highly improbable.

2.

lewarcher claimed to be a role who dies when he targets dogs and kills his target when he targets cats. That means lewarcher kills cats regardless of alignment.

Because he is killing

regardless of alignment

, it only makes sense that he is self-aligned.

If you're thinking that that's a really underpowered third party role, he probably has the ability to rolecop someone during the day or something like that... guessing people's pets would make it chance for him.

Obviously none of this applies if he's

still

lying about his role, but I don't think he is.

So, it's up to whether we want a third party role who might be able to kill scum alive or dead at the end of Day 1. I'm not sure myself, but I'm leaning heavily towards dead.

[Quilford]

I'm sorry, you guys seem to be ignoring that he apparently targets pets arbitrarily.

[Quilford]

The thing is, Ghostlin, some people apparently don't think he's

either

. Shocking, isn't it?

[Quilford]

Whoops, sorry. I meant to say that he apparently kills pets arbitrarily.

[Quilford]

Well, for one, in this case lewSK's best bet'd probably be to try and shoot scum and then claim it as a vig shot.

Whoops, sorry. I meant to say that he apparently kills pets arbitrarily.

Arbitrarily how?

Pets' alignments are randomised and yet he only kills cats.

Look, he could be town. But with the pet in question having passed away, the role being described as an assassin, all the things lewarcher's done today, and another alive pet, I don't think he is.

But now I'm actually uncomfortable lynching him. .______________.

[Quilford]

But now I'm actually uncomfortable lynching him. .______________.

Why?

A general feeling of unease.

As for the pet being alive or dead, that is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. We were told when submitting pets that you could submit a living or passed pet.

That clearly explains why the pet being alive or dead is totally irrelevant, thanks.

But he still picks who to target... So it's not arbitrary. It's a LIMITED VIG.

IT'S ARBITRARY WHO HE KILLS. NO MATTER WHO HE PICKS, WHETHER HE THINKS THEY'RE TOWN OR SCUM, HE WILL DIE UNLESS THEY'RE A CAT. HOW THE SHIT IS THIS FAIR ON HIM UNLESS HE HAS SOME WAY TO DISCERN WHO SOMEONE'S PET IS, HMM?

[Quilford]

Just look at the vanilla vig (i.e. could only vig vanillas) in PYP5, Quilford. Roles were distributed by a draft system, so alignments of the vanillas was fairly random (as it turned out, none of the scum were vanilla) - still a completely valid role and beneficial too.

Ah, but here, Role PMs were written after alignment was randomised.

IT'S ARBITRARY WHO HE KILLS. NO MATTER WHO HE PICKS, WHETHER HE THINKS THEY'RE TOWN OR SCUM, HE WILL DIE UNLESS THEY'RE A CAT. HOW THE SHIT IS THIS FAIR ON HIM UNLESS HE HAS SOME WAY TO DISCERN WHO SOMEONE'S PET IS, HMM?

Because people are never in a position where they'd claim their pet. (This observation basically amounts to "he's better off not using his action early on"; not a big deal.)

It's not just early on. It's until someone claims that they're a cat.

[Quilford]

UNVOTE:

[Quilford]

Ah, but here, Role PMs were written after alignment was randomised.

Which means, given say 2 scum cats, it makes even more sense as a role? I don't see the problem.

It makes even more sense as a third party role, yes, considering lewarcher's actions and claim.

[Quilford]

IT'S ARBITRARY WHO HE KILLS. NO MATTER WHO HE PICKS, WHETHER HE THINKS THEY'RE TOWN OR SCUM, HE WILL DIE UNLESS THEY'RE A CAT. HOW THE SHIT IS THIS FAIR ON HIM UNLESS HE HAS SOME WAY TO DISCERN WHO SOMEONE'S PET IS, HMM?

I think you've just demonstrated why I don't think he's an SK... That's a really difficult win condition to achieve. It's still possible, but come on, it's a lot more plausible as a town limited vig.

Of course if he were a Serial Killer he wouldn't just have a killing ability and that's it.

But Town Limited Vigs, like the example CES provided in PYP, don't

die

when they target someone they can't kill. Therefore I think he is a serial killer with extra powers to help him on his way. Otherwise he would be useless as town.

Nevertheless, I have unvoted, and it wasn't because of CES' claim

[Quilford]

Eh, mafia alignment actually makes more sense than SK.
A hard to use vig-power gives scum something to strategize on together and a vehicle for massclaim punishment.
Just like Baby Spice in Zor's Strategy Mafia game.
His described role doesn't sound like a legitimate serial killing role because of the 'you die if you shoot the wrong thing' aspect and the reduced target pool.
The way he claimed, rolling it out in two phases and mentioning Mao was killed by a dog, sounded like he has the role he has claimed even if he's scum.

Also scum totally gave town useful strategy advice (scum had ways of killing through doors) in Strategy Mafia.
Telling people not to massclaim is like the easiest thing to say town sounding things about ever.

Amrun? This sounds pretty damning.

[Quilford]

...

[Quilford]

Eh, mafia alignment actually makes more sense than SK.
A hard to use vig-power gives scum something to strategize on together and a vehicle for massclaim punishment.
Just like Baby Spice in Zor's Strategy Mafia game.
His described role doesn't sound like a legitimate serial killing role because of the 'you die if you shoot the wrong thing' aspect and the reduced target pool.
The way he claimed, rolling it out in two phases and mentioning Mao was killed by a dog, sounded like he has the role he has claimed even if he's scum.

Also scum totally gave town useful strategy advice (scum had ways of killing through doors) in Strategy Mafia.
Telling people not to massclaim is like the easiest thing to say town sounding things about ever.

Amrun? This sounds pretty damning.

HOW does that sound pretty damning? It doesn't at all. He's saying the exact thing I'm saying: lew's probably not an SK because of the dying thing.

He's also saying he's probably mafia... or at least, he did.

Why are you looking to me, anyway?

Because you're defending lewarcher most vigorously, and because I'm finding it hard to 'make my own mind up'.

You're absolutely looking for ANY REASON to lynch lewarcher, sensical or not, instead of actually trying to figure out his alignment.

This is so much bullshit I'm going to stop here and calm myself with visions of you being lynched.

[Quilford]

Quilford, you are being really dense right now. Even though LLamarble was expressing a general scumread on lewarcher, that is his opinion and in no way "damning."

Okay, my folly was not selectively quoting.

What do you think of the mod-meta Llamarble posts about?

[Quilford]

Eh, mafia alignment actually makes more sense than SK.
A hard to use vig-power gives scum something to strategize on together and a vehicle for massclaim punishment.
Just like Baby Spice in Zor's Strategy Mafia game.
His described role doesn't sound like a legitimate serial killing role because of the 'you die if you shoot the wrong thing' aspect and the reduced target pool.
The way he claimed, rolling it out in two phases and mentioning Mao was killed by a dog, sounded like he has the role he has claimed even if he's scum.

Also scum totally gave town useful strategy advice (scum had ways of killing through doors) in Strategy Mafia.
Telling people not to massclaim is like the easiest thing to say town sounding things about ever.

Eh, mafia alignment actually makes more sense than SK.
A hard to use vig-power gives scum something to strategize on together and a vehicle for massclaim punishment.
Just like Baby Spice in Zor's Strategy Mafia game.
His described role doesn't sound like a legitimate serial killing role because of the 'you die if you shoot the wrong thing' aspect and the reduced target pool.
The way he claimed, rolling it out in two phases and mentioning Mao was killed by a dog, sounded like he has the role he has claimed even if he's scum.

Also scum totally gave town useful strategy advice (scum had ways of killing through doors) in Strategy Mafia.
Telling people not to massclaim is like the easiest thing to say town sounding things about ever.

Amrun? This sounds pretty damning.

He could also be town. I just don't really think he's an SK.

That last quote is so lol.

[Quilford]

Okay. Thanks.

[Quilford]

Hello!

I'm a Census Taker and I used my power last night to reveal the setup's faction distribution. Should I reveal it, or is there some hidden downside that I'm missing?

Also I'm not really sure who to vote at the moment, I'll get back to everyone on that in a little while.

[Quilford]

Okay cool.

The results are unsurprising but significant considering there was only one kill last night: 4 mafia, 1 third party, 10 town

[Quilford]

VOTE: Ghostlin

[Quilford]

Yeah I also don't like KK, looked like he was being proactive by pushing the lew lynch but that came to very little and he's faded since, so.

Ghostlin: I'm pretty sure I voted you because your posts surrounding the lewarcher lynch yesterday seemed opportunistic in the same way that KK's did, but you were being more subtle about it

[Quilford]

Actually, Vi, the result mentions 'third-party', not SK specifically.

[Quilford]

Hi, haven't posted in a while so I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Quilford]

Reading.

[Quilford]

I'm not sure whether or not I can endorse the Llamarble wagon. My read on him literally swings from town to scum and vice versa every other post. My scumdar needs calibration!!

VOTE: glowball

[Quilford]

Hmmm?

[Quilford]

I've lacked time to do much, and now that I have time I lack motivation.

[Quilford]

Yeah CES Vi is pretty obviously town.

[Quilford]

VOTE: Llamarble
Don't see a sufficient motive for tracking Reck.

Ghostlin is also scum for #831 which is just lol.

[Quilford]

TOWN:
Llamarble
Ghostlin
Glowball

Probtown:
KK

Leaning town:
Amrun - rethinking a read (especially from scum to town on a townie) is a towntell.
Lewarcher - I read through several times as town and nothing blared wut at me. Reading through as scum I kept getting hooked on things like "He is thinking about 2 possibilities then decides on one of them soon thereafter while not under pressure -> is solving puzzle -> is town" or "feel free to meta me" (sounds 'I've-got-nothing-to-hide-ish) or 'kick VI's ass for lynching me' (this variant of you'll be sorry sounds kinda townish), etc. I JUST WANT HIM TO SCUMHUNT SOMETHING.

Iffy:
CES - he has a couple of decent early posts, but mostly is just watching. I could see faking governor from either angle.

Scum:
DDDP - Scumterse except for setup talk and fencesitty commentary on me / Quilford. Not enough puzzling the game out. Also 414 scumlink to Quilford wheee.
Jason - II had town on him early but I was totally wrong. 135, 161, the quote striping post is just amazing and the glowball vote is :terrible:
Would Jason make that level of wall as scum / town?

Why Reck indeed.

Also I didn't actually see how craptastic these reads were until now.

[Quilford]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt mostly because we have plenty of good suspects.

Unvote, vote: Ghostlin

Fair enough.

VOTE: Ghostlin

[Quilford]

I was told that after day 1 there were 10 town, 4 mafia, and 1 third party.

[Quilford]

I don't particularly want to reveal my flavour. It's already been shown that there are roles which specifically target different species of pets.

[Quilford]

Besides I don't think it's hard to guess.

[Quilford]

Hoo hoo hoo.

Vi, put your vote somewhere else, please.

[Quilford]

I now have role-related reasons to think Llamarble is scum. I also have reason to believe in VP Baltar's guilt should the former flip scum.

I am not going to fullclaim.

VOTE: Llamarble

[Quilford]

Pfft okay, whatever. I'm almost 100% sure that you're both the same alignment, and that it's more likely to be scum.

@saulres

: My Census Taker ability,

like the Tracking ability I also have

, (and which is making me very confused about Llamarble's alignment because I'm not sure whether a one-shot Tracker and a full Tracker would exist on the same faction) is one-shot.

Pretty sure Ghostlin's scum, too: questions like these

Also, generic question for Vi/Llam: How do you feel about the fact that Quil didn't release the flavor of a pet who's a Census Taker?

are, to me, so impossibly scummy it's hard to believe that any self-respecting scum would ask them.

So I'm fine with a vote on any of the three but I'd prefer it was one of Llamarble or VPB.

Can anyone tell me how Llamarble's tone and playstyle in this game resemble his town and scum meta? Because sometimes I get town vibes from them, and it's not good for my reads.

[Quilford]

VPB claimed roleblocked.

[Quilford]

Forgot this was role madness.

VOTE: Ghostlin

IGMEOU: Llamarble

[Quilford]

You never answered me when I asked what category you think your census taking ability resolves in on the first page.

Yes, I did.

VPB claimed roleblocked.

If you are having this train of thought now wouldn't you have disbelieved Llamarble's claim when he originally made it?

I did. Hence my jump onto the Llamarble wagon after the claim.


You're stupid and as far as I can see the only reason you're suspicious of me is because of my claim and because of the Day 1 Sotty interaction.

[Quilford]

I'm not too sure about that myself.

[Quilford]

Just something about the way he's playing, and how he's persevering with it despite unfavourable results.

Although Crazy totally did it in Double Dip and I didn't hammer him then... and then we went on to lose the game.

[Quilford]

And I wonder if Roxi will vote before the hammer this time so we can look for scum amongst the hammerers as the game goes on instead of having that option taken away from us by a chicken townie.

Vi pointed this out, saul: how do you know Roxi is controlled by a townie?

[Quilford]

Also I'm not sure of a Ghostlin lynch anymore, but whatever.

[Quilford]

They missed a hyphen.

[Quilford]

Vi... you're making me feel uneasy.

[Quilford]

You never answered me when I asked what category you think your census taking ability resolves in on the first page.

Yes, I did.

You did? Where? It doesn't matter. In order to get the result you got census taking would have to fall into one of the first two categories (before the death of Reckoner): Roleblocks or Protection. I don't see that as very likely do you?

My Census Taking ability was prefaced with 'At the end of Day 1...'.

You're stupid and as far as I can see the only reason you're suspicious of me is because of my claim and because of the Day 1 Sotty interaction.

Your claim alone is worth lynching.

Well then you're

really

stupid and I will smack you post game if you are town.

[Quilford]

Vi... you're making me feel uneasy.

And your avatar is making me feel uneasy, so we're even.

Yukidoh Satoru is displeased.