Open 53: Near-Vanilla - Game over!

[Crub]

Random

vote: Phate

[Crub]

VOTE: DISCIPLE SLAYER

ewww thats not very nice.

[Crub]

not really less nice just less scum filled.

Do you need to write in capitals like that its likely to annoy me.

[Crub]

Wow so this game is really hopping and jumping then.

[Crub]

why does the amount of village idiots playing seem to be so growing so much? It's like theres 2 or 3 in every game, it's very perplexing.

[Crub]

unvote; vote Disciple Slayer

Fortunately I don't like playing with people like you

[Crub]

Unvote, vote: Disciple Slayer

I am blatantly bandwagoning to an unnecessary number of votes at this stage of the game. Discuss.

you = genius.

[Crub]

I TOLD YOU, IT'S A PR. IT GOES AWAY WHEN I CAN VOTE AS I USUALLY DO.

Go away troll.

[Crub]

Policy Lynch = Bad Idea.

[Crub]

I'm a pretty unreadable player. If you wanna lynch me because I'm unreadable, go ahead.

Just know that it's a stupid-ass reason for a lynch.

Playing the idiot just so that you're unreadable is a stupid-ass way to play Either learn to accept that it's going to get you lynched on day 1, or change your playstyle.

[Crub]

Why even mention it?

eyebrow raise

[Crub]

Any sort of bandwagon which sparks some conversation is welcome at this point.

[Crub]

Any sort of bandwagon which sparks some conversation is welcome at this point.

What do you think of the rw miniwagon

I still support it for the record.

Ross, I don't agree that your lurking would make the wagon go away. In fact, if you were to lurk, and ignore a wagon on you, this would probably make it grow.

I don't know what to think of it. I'm not jumping on if thats what you're asking.

unvote

Nothing happening there.

[Crub]

I understand But I just don't get that much of a scummy "feel" from him, newbie yes, scummy not so much.

[Crub]

Lulz. I find it amusing you can pick anyone out as actively lurking in this game.

It's very hard to have a meaningful conversation in this thread when there is on average less than 2 posts per rl day.

This sounds vaguely like an argument for a lynch regardless of whether he's town or scum because he's annoying. Please correct me if I've misinterpreted this.

I will comment on this, because considering until pretty recently I was still on DS. I don't think it would have been a "big" deal if we mis-lynched on day 1 with DS. Firstly because if the game was active and there was discussion, there is generally a fair amount of information from that discussion for later in the game. Secondly the positioning of people on the bandwagon gives us more information, and Thirdly, DS as a player is a VI. Even if he does turn out to be town, the town is always going to be WIFOM'd into wanting to lynch him later in the game. Getting rid of unhelpful players does help our cause even if they do turn out to be town because we can go back later and look at the bandwagon and discussion.

Anyway now that I've said that it doesn't really apply to this game anymore because our VI has flaked

[Crub]

This game is seriously painful.

I'm not a big fan of the RW bandwagon so I'm jumping on klebian.

vote klebian

There's scum on that there wagon.

[Crub]

Firstly I picked klebian semi-randomly off the list of voters, just putting my vote on someone I'm slightly suspicious off and gauging reactions.

Secondly WTF is DS even a topic of discussion right now? He's about to be replaced. I think we can safely put DS's play down to his VI meta and hope he get's replaced by someone who isn't a VI.

[Crub]

/me sighs.

kleb: which player do you suspect most at the moment? What do you make of Korlashes posts?

Why are you asking Klebian?

[Crub]

You're hard to read in an always scummy sort of way

[Crub]

Well that post didn't do anything to ease my mind about your alignment kleb.

Shanba what are your thoughts on klebian?

[Crub]

You need to turn bbcode on in your posts.

BTW just in case you weren't aware your vote didn't count.

And can I just confirm, you find him scummy because he wasn't composed, and now he's composed he's even scummier? Just how exactly do you want him to react?

What are your thoughts on klebian?

[Crub]

I will say though, Crub, that I would like to know what it is about klebian's post that suggests something about his alignment to you.

OMGUS = bad mmk.

[Crub]

Secondly WTF is DS even a topic of discussion right now? He's about to be replaced. I think we can safely put DS's play down to his VI meta and hope he get's replaced by someone who isn't a VI.

I don't like this. First off, there was a DS discussion because korlash was recapping his opinions on the game. Also, I don't agree that you can excuse scumminess for meta and go on with it. And even more, this post seems like counter productive to discussion. It should never be the wrong time to discuss someone's behavior, and just because he is about to be replaced doesn't mean we can't do analysis on him.

So what information do you think you're going to be able to gain from putting pressure on someone who has flaked and hasn't been replaced yet? Do you really believe attacking someone who isn't in the game is productive?

[Crub]

And can I just confirm, you find him scummy because he wasn't composed, and now he's composed he's even scummier? Just how exactly do you want him to react?

Yes, in a nutshell this is why I found RW scummy. However now reviewing the topic I just realize the RW bandwagon was just that, a bandwagon so...

Unvote

Wow nice backpedal.

[Crub]

It is good to see a fresh analysis of past behavior, even if only to get some discussion going again...

Except that it wasn't fresh and there was no one around to respond to it in any case.

[Crub]

*tap**tap* Hello? Is this thing on?

[Crub]

Haha oh dear

Feeling much better about a RW lynch now

[Crub]

Sorry I've been quiet lately, just a lot going on atm

Anyway I agree with what Justin has to say on TSN, I am going to put my vote there because I really do doubt that MM is scum especially after DS's hijinks.

unvote; vote TheSweatpantsNinja

Shanba earlier you said you doubted that DS was scum, what's made you change your mind?

[Crub]

eh, I don't consider them the same thing. I feel like melodyman has turned tail and quit in lieu of the odds turning against him. I'll reconsider if he shows back up.

Umm they're the same thing because MM replaced DS ... Also you make it sound like town never flake when they're under pressure, that's just not the case.

[Crub]

I generally support lurker lynches, I'm not particularly opposed to a jdodge lynch, and obviously I find it infinitely preferable to a me lynch. . . but the way this bandwagon is starting up is a little unusual.

Supporting Lurker Lynches is not pro-town, just in case you were under that impression.

[Crub]

And why don't you ask crub to elaborate?

Do you not agree that it's easy for scum to push a Lurker lynch while knowing the alignment of the lurker?

What information do you think you can get out of lynching someone who isn't posting?

Lurking makes it hard for the town, but the correct course of action is to get the player replaced, not lynching them.

[Crub]

Unvote. Vote JDodge

I still don't have anything against JDodge and I don't even mind his Melodyman vote so much, because it's a reasonably good line, but Phate, how about a few words on why you would want to give TheSweatpantsNinja the vote on Melodyman he was asking for?

If you don't have anything on him wtf are you voting him?

unvote; vote: MelodyMan

[Crub]

At this point JDodge's head is in the noose.

Personally I think both JDodge and MM are both probably town, but at this point I'd prefer to lose MM than JDodge even if he is playing the Asshat to perfection.

[Crub]

Why aren't we lynching klebian?

obv scum.

[Crub]

Why aren't we lynching klebian?

obv scum.

can't tell if this is sarcasm or seriousness
care to elaborate?

(If the unvote is needed,

unvote, vote: jdodge

Accusation based mainly on the fact that you're scum.

[Crub]

Oh well that sucks.

vote: klebian

Just putting it out there.

[Crub]

Ross what do you think about Klebian? What do you think about Shanba?

[Crub]

Crub, what do you think of Klebian (specifically)? Justin already asked you this, and looking back, I don't think you've ever given any solid reasons for suspecting him.

RW, now that it's D2, is there anything other than gut that is pointing to k7 as being scum? Is it mostly his D2 play that makes you think so?

I will answer, but I'd prefer to wait for Ross first.

[Crub]

WTF I'm confused ... According to you the scum have 2 townie bandwagons to choose from but instead they decide they're going to buss a scum partner?

I hope you're sharing whatever you're smoking dude

[Crub]

I like how Crub completly avoided talking about Kleb...

I'm still digesting. Basically kleb is at the top of my list, for reasons that I'd rather not disclose, I'm just trying to see what makes sense.

TSN what do you think of kleb?

[Crub]

I'm not digesting my vote. I know why I'm voting kleb, I'm digesting the plausability of a klebian/shanba/? scum team and trying to figure out if that actually fits and who could possibly be the third member.

[Crub]

Crub, can you at least tell us what made you think there might be a klebian-shanba connection? Please answer this only after Korlash has answered.

What? Why?

Vote: Crub

I'm more likely to vote for Crub as I think jsut repeating something over and over and ignoring other's requests is scummy...

lulz

[Crub]

... is that all you're going to say?
I'm gonna

vote: crub

as well, because you're pointlessly wasting our time and there is a fixed deadline which is obviously getting closer and closer
but discussion is not really picking up

Yeah it is all I'm going to say. What Korlash said was laughable, which is why I laughed. You OMGUS'ing me like that isn't really doing anything to make me feel any better about your alignment.

[Crub]

... is that all you're going to say?
I'm gonna

vote: crub

as well, because you're pointlessly wasting our time and there is a fixed deadline which is obviously getting closer and closer
but discussion is not really picking up

Yeah it is all I'm going to say. What Korlash said was laughable, which is why I laughed. You OMGUS'ing me like that isn't really doing anything to make me feel any better about your alignment.

Maybe what korlash said was laughable but he's not the only person asking you to give some reasoning

also i don't frankly care whether my OMGUS makes you not feel better about my alignment because I have some actual basis behind the vote

Over-reaction to one vote for (seemingly) baseless or bogus reasons, I find to be a scum tell. <3

[Crub]

Firstly I picked klebian semi-randomly off the list of voters, just putting my vote on someone I'm slightly suspicious off and gauging reactions.

Over-reaction to one vote for (seemingly) baseless or bogus reasons, I find to be a scum tell. <3

I gauged reactions. I did not like what I saw. Also I do not like the interaction between Shanba and klebian during that whole period of posting.

[Crub]

Justin, please explain to me how my actions make me more like to be scum?

[Crub]

Also, I've explained, go back and read the forking thread for yourselves. If you don't find kleb scummy well that's your opinion. My opinion is that, he's probably scum. If you disagree, fair enough, if you think that makes me scum, please explain.

[Crub]

If you disagree, fair enough, if you think that makes me scum, please explain.

[Crub]

You don't see the value of not being explicit? Do you not think that his OMGUS, followed by lurk has provided us with any further information?

[Crub]

I note your shift from apathy to antipathy toward the RW wagon. I will agree that it's obviously not the strongest reasons for a wagon, but I do think it seems a bit late to be jumping on a wagoner, especially seemingly randomly.

First post after lurky period, in regard to my voting him. Fair enough.

Secondly WTF is DS even a topic of discussion right now? He's about to be replaced. I think we can safely put DS's play down to his VI meta and hope he get's replaced by someone who isn't a VI.

I don't like this. First off, there was a DS discussion because korlash was recapping his opinions on the game. Also, I don't agree that you can excuse scumminess for meta and go on with it. And even more, this post seems like counter productive to discussion. It should never be the wrong time to discuss someone's behavior, and just because he is about to be replaced doesn't mean we can't do analysis on him.

But then followed by a healthy dose of OMGUS.

It is good to see a fresh analysis of past behavior, even if only to get some discussion going again...

Except that it wasn't fresh and there was no one around to respond to it in any case.

This got ignored. Why?

Crub: I didn't respond to that post after mine, because I felt that there was no good to argue that point.

Then he continues to lurk through the rest of the day. Comes back at the 11th hour to put a vote on. ie. He did absolutely the minimum he had to.

Day 2. He completely ignores my vote up until :

... is that all you're going to say?
I'm gonna

vote: crub

as well, because you're pointlessly wasting our time and there is a fixed deadline which is obviously getting closer and closer but discussion is not really picking up

Yeah I'm obv scum for committing to how I feel about someone's alignment.

also i don't frankly care whether my OMGUS makes you not feel better about my alignment because I have some actual basis behind the vote

And yet he doesn't explain. Hypocritical much? Oh and now back into lurk mode Yay for klebian.

I've got a two post reason to think he's possibly linked with Shanba, but it's not strong so I'm not posting it. Also a possible link with TSN (which is a higher possibility IMO), but I'm not elaborating until I see more.

Also I'll ask again.

If you think me avoiding giving any sort of analysis while committing to someone's alignment is scummy, please explain.

[Crub]

Crub, quick question: Do you find me suspicious?

Nope.

[Crub]

Your bandwagon yesterday mainly, plus the lack of any (that I've noticed) links with anyone else.

[Crub]

I have to say, if someone accused me, and refused to give any reasons, I'd probably get a little OMGUSy myself. I don't think its particularly

scummy

not to, if only because I can't figure out any particular reason why scum would be any more likely to pursue the play than town, but its certainly not very helpful.

Yeah but at this point I'd expect you to sit on the sidelines while trying to draw attention away from kleb.

There is no point to getting OMGUS'y if he think's I'm scummy enough for a vote at this point then bring on an explanation.

Also kleb + TSN = my top 2. Shanba is a possibility but I don't want to go there until we have a lot more.

[Crub]

Your bandwagon yesterday mainly, plus the lack of any (that I've noticed) links with anyone else.

What do you mean by my bandwagon yesterday?

You don't remember the town having to choose between you and MM yesterday?

So, in other words:
Crub: kleb is scum.

Town: Why?

Crub: Because I say he is.

Me: No, for serious, why?

Crub: What, you don't agree with my stunning logic? You and kleb are scum.

Hahah lulz.

[Crub]

You voted me.

[Crub]

Whatever.

[Crub]

Oh and kleb, if you don't think I'm scum and only wanted more information why are you still voting me?

[Crub]

Unvote, vote: Crub

Only time I've seen Crub act like this, he was scum. Newbie 516 IIRC.

Yeah I got lynched based on crap logic in that game too The fact that I was scum there is irrelevant. So I hope you read over all my games and not just the first one I was scum in? If you had of meta'd me properly, you would have seen I play the lazy townie fairly often. Sometimes it get's me lynched sometimes it doesn't. If it does here so be it.

This game I've commited to how I feel about klebian. How does that make me scum? I think klebian's reaction to my vote and my withholding analysis does add to my case.

Anyway you guys do what you like, I'll keep my vote on kleb, but will move to TSN if that get's more support.

[Crub]

Yesterday you asked Klebian why he asked Shanba specifically about his opinions.

I think it was the other way around? If this did happen can you point out where? It would certainly add to my Klebian+Shanba minor suspicion.

Anyway because Shanba wanted to know what 2 posts I was referring to when linking them :

Why klebian?

If you're trying to start a rival wagon, why not vote someone who had a vote, rather than someone who no one had even reallly mentioned?

Firstly Why klebian by itself is a fair enough question. Why suggest I should try to start bandwagoning someone else?

/me sighs.

kleb: which player do you suspect most at the moment? What do you make of Korlashes posts?

I find the asking of someone's opinion out of the blue, especially when that player hasn't posted in some time (60 odd posts and 2 weeks real time) to be out of place. In my experience it generally points to a link.

How is this different from me asking the opinions of TSN or RW?
1. They were recently involved in the discussion.
2. There were slight indicator's that they may be linked/partnered with my number 1 suspect. I was trying to get them to commit to how they felt, to provide something more substantial.

[Crub]

I'm voting crub because I find his play decidedly anti-town, and I don't have such a strong case on jdodge that I'm not willing to switch.

details?

[Crub]

Because you've just made statements, not questions. What do you want me to answer specifically?

[Crub]

Ha, seriously?

I find a weak vote with a consistent refusal to explain why you're doing so anti-town. Its not helpful, its useless.

And how does that make me scum?

[Crub]

Crub,

I've ask you about a zillion questions you haven't answered at this point, but I would really like one on this subject. How sure were you that Klebian was scum on day one? And how sure are you that Klebian is scum today? I would really like this answered in a way that let's me know how full the bottle is for you on each of these two days.

What sort of metric do you want me to measure this against? Obviously I'm not sure, I just think it's probable, and I think it's more probable today, than what I did yesterday.

There was one person voting crub.

Last time I checked 1+1=2.

Also, I will still change my vote to TSN if no one is willing to get on kleb. 4 days till deadline by my reckoning.

[Crub]

Oops, you're right, there were two people voting you. Sorry about that.
And OMGUS much?

Because you've quite obviously already forgotten what happened 1 page ago:

Anyway you guys do what you like, I'll keep my vote on kleb, but will move to TSN if that get's more support.

Unvote, vote crub.

If there's any OMGUS there it's from you not me. Again, I'm just sticking to my guns, and being consistent.

[Crub]

Not really. You first said I was suspicious when I didn't like that you weren't giving explanations. And I guess you're being consistently anti-town. Hooray for consistency?

Umm I had my vote on you for half of the first day ....

[Crub]

unvote; vote TheSweatpantsNinja

[Crub]

k7 and RW should 100% get on either me or TSN.

Everyone not voting should vote. Or at the very least post. Do not let me get lynched with 3 votes when there are 3 scum in the game. My prediction: if TSN gets to 3 votes kleb will vote me.

My thoughts on everyone for the record :
kleb - probably scum.
TSN - probably scum.
Justin - probably town.
neko - probably town.
skitzer - probably town.
korlash - non-committal leaning townie.
JDodge - non-committal leaning scum.
shanba - non-committal leaning scum.
Ross William - non-committal
killah 7 - non-committal

Enjoy the rest of the game everyone. Mod you need to get on top of people who don't post, it is very frustrating especially with fixed deadlines where scum can fully control who get's lynched.

[Crub]

Look at people voting Crub.

Look at Crub's list of suspicion.

Notice that you have one "scum", two "non-committals", one of which is scum and one of which is town

but committing to neither

. Note that the one that is "scum" is the one most likely to be a bussing tactic.

Why are we voting TSN again?

So let me get this straight ... in a scenario where 2 votes would have been enough for a deadline lynch, TSN with a multitude of people he could have voted thought "I know, I'll bus my partner in order to make it a two horse race between me and my partner."

Are you serious? Have you been sharing smoking implements with TSN who used this exact same argument at the start of today, in reference to yesterday?

[Crub]

You are claiming that I've reduced today to a two horse race, between me and my partner, when there were plenty of other options for a lynch.

1. Who am I OMGUS'ing?
2. This is consistent, with my views this entire game.
3.
4. What do you want me to explain? I've asked you to clarify this before.

[Crub]

Heh. Way to go for making sense, and avoiding answering questions.

[Crub]

Lulz <3

[Crub]

I am saying that distancing has given way to bussing. This is a logical progression of events.

Explain to me why two scum partners would bring the deadline lynch down to Partner 1 or Partner 2 when there were plenty of other candidates for lynch? Even if it became obvious that one of the two were up for lynch why not at least give the town a choice between Partner 1 and Innocent 1?

[Crub]

Oh wow, nice call of WIFOM. This is not even close to WIFOM.

Yes scum can benefit by bussing their partner early in the game in order to get a free ride to the end. In this situation with limited activity and a fixed deadline where the person about to be lynched has 3 votes, the scenario you're suggesting is very unlikely.

[Crub]

The sudden switch to K7 when TSN is far more guilty of being opportunistic is more than a little bit concerning.

[Crub]

You think TSN is more opportunistic? He's at least presenting arguments, whereas k7 is just popping in to vote and chat with klebian. TSN at least appears to know what's going on. If opportunistic voting suggests voting without rationale, do you honestly think that k7 is putting more rationale behind his voting than TSN?

That's funny because by my reckoning TSN hasn't presented any arguments. Just because k7 is jumping on the best wagon doesn't make him scummy IMO.

By stating this, you more or less set klebian up

not

to vote for you, so if you were hoping that he would so that you could add to his case, why did you even bother saying it? This seems like one of those things best kept to yourself rather than shared with everyone else because it requires a genuine response rather than a calculated one.

Yes because obviously I want people voting for me . Of course I said it in order to pre-empt it from happening.

Also I won't be voting k7 in order to save myself at deadline.

[Crub]

The aim was to give you incentive not to vote me, not to "trap" you.

And I'd listen to korlash, he's the subject matter expert when it comes to "bad falty logick".

[Crub]

Damn It became very obvious after my lynch that Neko was scum

[Crub]

Also hate to say I told you so about kleb

[Crub]

I forget the circumstances now, and I'm not going back to re-read a game that's over But I was more convinced of Neko = Scum than kleb = scum after my lynch.