Mini 551- Mod Abandoned

[SensFan]

/yep

[SensFan]

Vote: H
Unvote
Vote: I
Unvote

Vote: A
Unvote
Vote: L
Unvote
Vote: L
Unvote

[SensFan]

I

absolutely despise

post restrictions.

Fortunately, I'm already voting SensFan.

Vote: I

Vote: A
Vote: L
Vote: S
Vote: O

Vote: H
Vote: A
Vote: T
Vote: E

Vote: T
Vote: H
Vote: E
Vote: M

Vote: Xylthixlm

[SensFan]

Uh, question. Do PRs last for the whole game?

Not if we lynch him.

SensFan: Can you talk about your post restriction? 'Y' or 'N'.
Can you make votes that aren't on actual players?
Can you make votes of more than one letter?

SensFan clasps his hand over his mouth while holding up one finger, then nods his head forward-and backwards once while holding up two fingers, then side-to-side once while holding up three fingers.

[SensFan]

Vote: I

Vote: C
Vote: A
Vote: N

Vote: V
Vote: O
Vote: T
Vote: E

Vote: P
Vote: L
Vote: A
Vote: Y
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: S

Vote: J
Vote: U
Vote: S
Vote: T

Vote: N
Vote: O
Vote: T

Vote: W
Vote: O
Vote: R
Vote: D
Vote: S

[SensFan]

SensFan clasps his hand ever his mouth.

[SensFan]

SensFan looks as confused as Xylthixlm and Elias.

[SensFan]

He can't talk about it but it appears that he can pantomime.

SensFan slaps his head a few times. Looking into space for a minute, he finally breaks into a grin. He pulls his hands out, and begins to form a box around himself, defining the walls by seemingly pressing his palms against them.

[SensFan]

SensFan looks extremely pleased.

[SensFan]

Vote: A
Vote: L
Vote: L

Vote: T
Vote: H
Vote: E
Vote: S
Vote: E

Vote: V
Vote: O
Vote: T
Vote: E
Vote: S

Vote: F
Vote: O
Vote: R

Vote: A

Vote: P
Vote: R

SensFan looks confused, and upset.

[SensFan]

Vote: T
Vote: E
Vote: S
Vote: T


Vote: X

[SensFan]

Vote: W
Vote: H
Vote: Y

Vote: T
Vote: H
Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: K

Vote: F
Vote: A
Vote: K
Vote: E

SensFan looks confused.

[SensFan]

Vote: I

Vote: C
Vote: A
Vote: N

Vote: N
Vote: O
Vote: T

Vote: T
Vote: A
Vote: L
Vote: K

[SensFan]

* You can vote for single letters.
* You can't vote for anything longer than a single letter, unless it's a real player.

If you see an exploit in a role, please PM me too. We will work together to get a mutually compatable solution (between what was written and what was intended.)

Vote: W
Vote: O
Vote: R
Vote: D
Vote: S

Vote: T
Vote: O
Vote: O

Vote: E
Vote: A
Vote: S
Vote: Y

I also can't imagine why you would start out using the more annoying form (repeated votes) if mime was an option.

SensFan starts randomly voting people, then pauses. After thinking for a few minutes, he begins to act out his thoughts, charade-style.

[SensFan]

I think what SensFan is saying in post 79, is that he orignally started being able to vote only letters. (that's why he left out the mime bit that xyl put at the top of the list).

Then, he PMed the mod saying that the whole letter was thing too complicated, but was told that words would be too easy, and there wouldn't be any point in a PR.

After all that, either the mod let him have the mime thing to make things easier, or he decided to exploit a loophole since the mod never said he couldn't mime his actions.

SensFan shakes head side-to-side frantically. SensFan clasps his hand over his mouth, then immediately uses the provided voting signs to communicate, filling out 26 of them with a single letter. He does this for a while, and when people begin to get frustrated, he pauses, looks annoyed and begins to think. Then he puts down the signs, and starts to mime his actions.

[SensFan]

SensFan clasps his hand over his mouth

while holding up one finger, then nods his head forward-and backwards once while holding up two fingers, then side-to-side once while holding up three fingers.

SensFan shakes head side-to-side frantically.

SensFan clasps his hand over his mouth

, then immediately uses the provided voting signs to communicate, filling out 26 of them with a single letter. He does this for a while, and when people begin to get frustrated, he pauses, looks annoyed and begins to think. Then he puts down the signs, and starts to mime his actions.

SensFan clasps his hand ever his mouth.

[SensFan]

SensFan forms an invisible box around himself. Then he pretends to climb a set of stairs, then he folds his legs, as if sitting on an invisible chair.

[SensFan]

He's pretty much a liability, and I think the sooner we lynch him the better.

Vote: I

Vote: C
Vote: A
Vote: N

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: T
Vote: R
Vote: I
Vote: B
Vote: U
Vote: T
Vote: E

[SensFan]

By the way... have you noticed that, despite protesting "I can contribute", SensFan's only actual contribution to discussion is an OMGUS vote on me?

Vote: I

Vote: D
Vote: I
Vote: D
Vote: N
Vote: T

Vote: O
Vote: M
Vote: G
Vote: U
Vote: S

Unvote

[SensFan]

SensFan looks awfully depressed, slumping down onto a non-existent chair.

[SensFan]

How is lynching SensFan helpful to town? As far as I can tell, that's nothing more than a OMGPRS lynch. Yes, it's annoying, but he hasn't actually done anything scummy unless you can prove he's actually faking his PR.

But how would he be able to do something scummy at all with this PR? Other than using his vote, he can hardly do anything producive for the town. And since such a PR is very rare in a mini normal, I'd rather say he's faking his PR unless we can prove he's actually not.

Vote: H
Vote: O
Vote: W

Vote: C
Vote: A
Vote: N

Vote: I

Vote: P
Vote: R
Vote: O
Vote: V
Vote: E

Vote: I
Vote: T

SensFan looks confused.

[SensFan]

we should at least get a claim before we really push for the lynch.

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: P

Unvote

[SensFan]

Cogito Ergo Scum

: Suggests lynching SensFan even if he isn't faking. Maintains that townies often fake PRs. I'm not so sure about those two parts, but otherwise, seems to be consistently protown in attitude.

Vote: T

Elias_the_Thief

: Assumes SensFan is faking his PR. Seems confused by SensFan's miscounted self-vote. Changes direction on the mod confusion issue (first he says it shows SensFan isn't a cop, then he says he's confused, then suggests leaving SensFan until tomorrow). Doesn't strike me as particularly town or scum.

Vote: S

jerubaal

: Pushes the SensFan lynch. Asks an interesting question about SensFan's PR, which never really gets answered. No strong read here either.

Vote: T

Joubert

: One random vote, one post which doesn't really add anything to the discussion. Might need replacement.

Vote: L

Korts

: Says that if SensFan's PR is faked, he's obviously scum. Doubletalks about whether it's possibly faked. Opposes SensFan lynch on the basis that he might be protown (newbie scum seem to make this argument a lot). Suggests a counter of SensFan's cop claim, which would expose the real cop for a nightkill. Overall, very scummy.

FOS: Korts

Vote: T

lovo14

: Very little contribution. Opposes SensFan lynch without explaining reason. Raises Usurper for no reason I can tell. Also scummy.

Vote: S

matimafia

: Hasn't posted at all, not even to confirm.

Mod, we need a replacement.

Vote: L

theopor_COD

: Hasn't posted since confirming.

Mod, we need a prod and/or replacement.

Vote: L

ting =)

: Says we shouldn't lynch SensFan, then votes him in the same post. Promptly unvotes because he doesn't really want to lynch him(?!). Gives an interesting explaination for SensFan's PR which makes me think he and SensFan aren't scum together. Questions the SensFan wagon, apparently forgetting that he was on it. Uncertain, leaning town.

Vote: S

Xyl

Vote: S

Unvote

[SensFan]

town

Vote: T

scum.

Vote: S

lurkers

Vote: L

[SensFan]

My position is that he could say things of value, but doesn't.

SensFan points to post 164.

[SensFan]

Vote: I

Vote: P
Vote: O
Vote: S
Vote: T
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: A

Vote: S
Vote: C
Vote: U
Vote: M
Vote: L
Vote: I
Vote: S
Vote: T




Vote: A
Vote: N
Vote: Y

Vote: Q
Vote: U
Vote: E
Vote: S
Vote: T
Vote: I
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: S

[SensFan]

Also, "sure that they're scum" is

far

too high a bar for voting, especially on day 1.

Vote: S
Vote: C
Vote: U
Vote: M
Vote: M
Vote: Y

Vote: N
Vote: O
Vote: T

Vote: S
Vote: C
Vote: U
Vote: M

[SensFan]

her

Vote: M
Vote: A
Vote: L
Vote: E

[SensFan]

Sorry. While youre hear, can you perhaps answer my question about why I'm scummy? You can obviously quote things, so could you quote my posts that you find scummy?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In addition,

im thinking we could allow him to survive one day and see if he delivers any results tomorrow

, but im not even sure what we'd do with the info.

Alright. That does clear things up a bit. I think that there shouldnt be a counterclaim today if its a fakeclaim, but we have no reason to disbelieve it.

I'd like to see what he has to tell us tomorrow.
so

unvote

thats a dumb question. its obviously impossible to give an intelligent answer because SF is basically all we've talked about thus far.

But it doesnt mean that SF is a good lynch, only that we should continue discussing and look for a better lynch.

Vote: V
Vote: S

Well, im probably going to vote SF at the end of the day.

In the meanwhile Ive been playing devils advocate on arguments to get more out the day.

meh. current discussion is going no where. I'm pretty sure mini normals do not have post restrictions, and

I think SF's is a little bit ridiculous to be true.

Theres always the off-chance that SF is just fucking with us as town, but more likely she is scum. Theres also the possibility that shes jester, but a jesters death wins them the game, not loses the town the game, so lynching her isnt real that bad either way. so

unvote, vote: Sensfan

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: T
Vote: R
Vote: A
Vote: D
Vote: I
Vote: C
Vote: T
Vote: I
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: S

[SensFan]

The bolded section is important. A lot of those arguments for leaving you around longer were a result of me playing the devils advocate, IE making people argue their case against you and furthering discussion. Ive actually been in support of your lynch since I decided your restriction is very unlikely. So while I may have contradicted myself in what I said, I only did so to create conversation, and my current views are the ones I actually support.

Vote: S
Vote: E
Vote: E
Vote: M
Vote: S

Vote: L
Vote: I
Vote: K
Vote: E

Vote: Y
Vote: O
Vote: U

Vote: W
Vote: A
Vote: N
Vote: T
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: A
Vote: N

Vote: E
Vote: X
Vote: C
Vote: U
Vote: S
Vote: E

Vote: T
Vote: O

Vote: S
Vote: W
Vote: A
Vote: P

Vote: S
Vote: I
Vote: D
Vote: E
Vote: S

Unvote, Vote: Elias

[SensFan]

Vote: Y
Vote: O
Vote: U

Vote: S
Vote: W
Vote: A
Vote: P
Vote: P
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: W
Vote: H
Vote: E
Vote: N

Vote: P
Vote: O
Vote: P
Vote: U
Vote: L
Vote: A
Vote: R

Vote: O
Vote: P
Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: I
Vote: O
Vote: N

Vote: C
Vote: H
Vote: A
Vote: N
Vote: G
Vote: E
Vote: D

Unvote, Vote: Elias

[SensFan]

Hi people, hi Xyl, hi CESc, hi Elias, hi all the rest of you wonderful people who I'm sure will make excellent companions on this journey of deception and intrigue.

Now, if you'll excuse my somewhat whimsical opening, I will deign to give you my thoughts on the game.

The Sensfan wagon is a red herring. There's very little point in lynching him today. If he's scum, the PR and the cop claim combined create a dangerous minefield for him in days to come. I can think of at least 3 things that could happen which would blow him out of the water, and other things which will make his life considerably more difficult in days to come. Xyl's situation of him being continually left to skate by simply won't happen. And, if he's town, getting a few investigations is a good thing.

Besides, it's unhealthy to have all the discussion centred around one issue. I am suspicious of Joubert. He's not exactly bandwagoning (the latest votecount showing him voting for Sensfan is wrong) but he is much more guilty than SensFan of the discuss game theory and don't really attack anyone tell. I also feel that this posts are designed to give maximum flexibility in his attacks. And his suggestion for another cop to inestigate sens is just bad, though I'm inclined to put that down to bad game theory rather than malicious intent.

Vote: G
Vote: O
Vote: O
Vote: D
Vote: P
Vote: O
Vote: S
Vote: T
Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: G

-----

Unvote, Vote: Elias

[SensFan]

yay for standstills! Theres certainly no reason to look for a counterclaim. the bit about khel. being confused simply acts to confuse me, as i dont know what the original post before he editted it entailed...

Ugh. This game has become rather mucky. I'm thinking that Khel being confused shows that sens is not cop.

I also think we should lynch him to clear the waters, so to speak.

[SensFan]

Your PR will be debated and discussed and will monopolize the thread.

Vote: D
Vote: O
Vote: E
Vote: S
Vote: N
Vote: T

Vote: N
Vote: E
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: T
Vote: O

[SensFan]

he is under the impression that he has to revote afterwards.

This (the above quote or, if any parts are

formatted like this

, those parts) is true.

Want us to get a couple of good phrases down for you to quote?

Yes, that would work.

[SensFan]

And his suggestion for another cop to investigate sens is just bad, though I'm inclined to put that down to bad game theory rather than malicious intent.

Mah, this is too easy. IF there's "another" Cop (we should call him the "real" Cop), him investigating the claimed Cop could reveal useful. And in the same post, Shaka says SensFan could be the Cop, so let's not lynch him at all. Lacks subtlety...

And I get voted on for I-don't-know-what-reason in a 8-hour time span...

Vote: Joubert

[SensFan]

SF, you can talk in third person right?

Vote: N
Vote: O

-----

Vote: J
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: U
Vote: S

Vote: P
Vote: O
Vote: S
Vote: T

Vote: I
Vote: S

Vote: V
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: Y

Vote: S
Vote: C
Vote: U
Vote: M
Vote: M
Vote: Y



Vote: F
Vote: O
Vote: S

-----

Unvote, Vote: Joubert

[SensFan]

Sorry for the lack of posting, things in Thailand have been going well, but I have been quite busy.

I can't believe we're pushing away from SensFan.

If everyone's so sure that he's going to get lynched tomorrow, why would you ever want to not lynch him today.

If you want to test his results, you're going to have to follow them tomorrow

(that's assuming he's not roleblocked, or doesn't claim that he's roleblocked, which he would be if the mafia knows he's town and has a roleblocker) to a very likely townie lynch, and then finally go back and lynch him.

The possibility of a roleblocker actually makes this a very safe claim.

If he really is cop, he's going to get roleblocked every day from here on out. He doesn't need to provide any more information than a vanilla townie. If he's mafia, he's going to claim the same. I see no reliable test of his claim unless

we get lucky and mafia doesn't have a roleblocker

, especially no test of his claim which does not involve a lynch. This is not a long game, people.

Assuming three scum and one kill a night

, we only get three mislynches,

and that optimistic.

Passing on

a very likely scum

in favor of a confirmation plan which relies both on the mafia not having an rb and

that will take at least two days

is completely ludicrous.

There is no one else at this point I would be happy with lynching besides SF. The case on him is so much stronger than anyone else, doing otherwise would be simply silly.

Simply bringing up this possibility has severely weakened the plan of not lynching him.

There's no guarantee that there is a mafia roleblocker in the game. The majority of mini normals do not have mafia roleblockers.

Besides, we are not confirming him solely based on his results. They are one of a number of things he could confirm himself with:

investigation results, trackers/watchers, broken prs, being blocked by a town blocker but still claiming a result, being counterclaimed at a later date by a cop who has guilties on other players too.

If he claims to have been blocked tomorrow, I will be very suspicious. Not to mention, there will be no point keeping him alive anyway since he wouldn't be getting the results we kept him alive for.

It's 3 days assuming we don't lynch any scum.

I'm slightly more confident in our scumhunting abiities than that. You're creating difficulties that aren't there. Do you really think it's unhealthy to have extra discussion day 1? Before people came out and stated they weren't convinced by the wagon, we would have gained almost no info from the lynch. We would have reached tomorrow and said, well, now what? Especially if he is town.

Yes, I am defending him. I don't think the case against him is watertight. I can definitely see a mod like Khelvaster (no offence, but your modding display so far has not convinced me) wording the pr in a vague way so that he can use both. Also, though Xyl is right about

his contributions being underwhelming

,

others have also undercontributed

, and they're not doing it through a straw, as it were. I'm not thrilled by him as a lynch candidate.

@Sens:

Suspecting you is not scummy, defending you is not townie.

Get over yourself. If you found jerub's post scummy, why vote joubert?

-----

This (the above quote or, if any parts are

formatted like this

, those parts) is scummy.
(Formatting above can be replaced with whatever works in the relevant post.)

This (the above quote or, if any parts are

formatted like this

, those parts) is true.

This (the above quote or, if any parts are

formatted like this

, those parts) is false.

[SensFan]

If you found jerub's post scummy, why vote joubert?

Vote: J
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: U

Vote: I
Vote: S

Vote: L
Vote: E
Vote: S
Vote: S

Vote: S
Vote: C
Vote: U
Vote: M
Vote: M
Vote: Y

Vote: O
Vote: V
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: A
Vote: L
Vote: L


Unvote, Vote: Jeru

[SensFan]

Vote: B
Vote: A
Vote: H

Vote: G
Vote: O
Vote: T

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: F
Vote: U
Vote: S
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: B
Vote: Y

Vote: T
Vote: H
Vote: E

Vote: S
Vote: I
Vote: M
Vote: I
Vote: L
Vote: A
Vote: R

Vote: N
Vote: A
Vote: M
Vote: E
Vote: S

Unvote, Vote: Joubert

[SensFan]

Vote: M
Vote: I
Vote: M
Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: G

Vote: I
Vote: S

Vote: M
Vote: U
Vote: C
Vote: H

Vote: M
Vote: O
Vote: R
Vote: E

Vote: R
Vote: E
Vote: S
Vote: T
Vote: R
Vote: I
Vote: C
Vote: T
Vote: I
Vote: V
Vote: E

[SensFan]

I think Khel is a pretty established mod, I dont think he would make such a vague restriction. Like, the ability to vote one letter?

* You can vote for single letters.
* You can't vote for anything longer than a single letter, unless it's a real player.

If you see an exploit in a role, please PM me too. We will work together to get a mutually compatable solution (between what was written and what was intended.)

Vote: W
Vote: O
Vote: R
Vote: D
Vote: S

Vote: T
Vote: O
Vote: O

Vote: E
Vote: A
Vote: S
Vote: Y

[SensFan]

ok. I still dont see what it proves though.

I think Khel is a pretty established mod, I dont think he would make such a vague restriction. Like, the ability to vote one letter? He can mime?

Vote: I

Vote: C
Vote: A
Vote: N

Vote: N
Vote: O
Vote: T

Vote: T
Vote: A
Vote: L
Vote: K

Vote: B
Vote: U
Vote: T

Vote: C
Vote: A
Vote: N

Vote: V
Vote: O
Vote: T
Vote: E


Vote: I

Vote: T
Vote: A
Vote: L
Vote: K
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: T
Vote: O

Vote: K
Vote: H
Vote: E
Vote: L
Vote: V

Vote: A
Vote: N
Vote: D

Vote: A
Vote: G
Vote: R
Vote: E
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: V
Vote: O
Vote: T
Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: G

Vote: W
Vote: O
Vote: R
Vote: D
Vote: S

Vote: W
Vote: A
Vote: S

Vote: T
Vote: O
Vote: O

Vote: E
Vote: A
Vote: S
Vote: Y

[SensFan]

Vote: S
Vote: O
Vote: R
Vote: R
Vote: Y

Vote: F
Vote: O
Vote: R

Vote: M
Vote: I
Vote: A

Ugh. This is going nowhere, fast. I still believe that a claimed cop day one should be kept alive for information purposes, but since these sorry excuses for wagons don't seem to be going anywhere, I'm prepared to throw in the towel on this particular issue to get the game moving again. It's not like the guys currently voting SensFan hasn't had enough opportunities to toss their votes around, amirite?

Unvote
Vote: SensFan

Now to see who's willing to hammer. Might prove interesting. And to see if SensFan has some parting comments. If his PR is indeed fake, now would be a good time to share, I think.

Vote: E
Vote: A
Vote: S
Vote: E

Vote: T
Vote: A
Vote: R
Vote: G
Vote: E
Vote: T

[SensFan]

Is SF even here anymore?

I notice he was replaced in another game

, so this worries me. If somebody replaces, they may not know about the PR, which will clearly show whether it was faked...

This (the above quote or, if any parts are

formatted like this

, those parts) is false.

[SensFan]

Therefore, I'm against his lynch unless we have more to go on than a possibly faked PR,

little contribution

, and a

premature, unwarranted claim.

This (the above quote or, if any parts are

formatted like this

, those parts) is false.

[SensFan]

i disagree with your claim that you've been participating.

Vote: M
Vote: O
Vote: R
Vote: E

Vote: T
Vote: H
Vote: A
Vote: N

Vote: S
Vote: O
Vote: M
Vote: E

[SensFan]

Unvote, Vote: lovo

Vote: V
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: Y

Vote: S
Vote: C
Vote: U
Vote: M
Vote: M
Vote: Y

Unvote, Vote: Lovo

[SensFan]

There is no way in hell I am voting anyone other than SF today. Seriously. Even if lovo oozed every single behavioral tell in the book, I don't think the odds would come close to touching the unlikelihood of this pr being in this mini-normal.

Vote: C
Vote: L
Vote: O
Vote: S
Vote: E

Vote: M
Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: D
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: M
Vote: U
Vote: C
Vote: H

[SensFan]

I agree. This is one of the few games I've seen lately with almost completely active players, I'd hate to see it die out because the mod went missing.

Vote: A
Vote: G
Vote: R
Vote: E
Vote: E
Vote: D

[SensFan]

Say A and B are paired. Come night, A blocks B, and B blocks A.

Now assume A is scum, and tries to kill instead of blocking. Now B is blocking him, and no one is blocking B. So there is no kill. The same logic applies if B is scum.

The net result is that the scum can't kill at night unless two of them happen to get paired with each other. That's a huge advantage for the town.

Vote: A

Vote: K
Vote: I
Vote: L
Vote: L
Vote: S

Vote: A
Vote: N
Vote: D

Vote: C

Vote: B
Vote: L
Vote: O
Vote: C
Vote: K
Vote: S

Vote: B

Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: S
Vote: T
Vote: E
Vote: A
Vote: D

Vote: O
Vote: F

Vote: D


---

Unvote

[SensFan]

Now, did you find anything last night?

The alternative would be that we decide that SensFan is trustworthy. In that case, it would be better to leave him for last and use that information to narrow down the possible liers amongst the roleblockers.

[SensFan]

Do you have any better idea?

Vote: L
Vote: Y
Vote: N
Vote: C
Vote: H

Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: E

---

Vote: P
Vote: A
Vote: I
Vote: R

Vote: E
Vote: I
Vote: G
Vote: H
Vote: T

---

Vote: I

Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: V
Vote: E
Vote: S
Vote: T
Vote: I
Vote: G
Vote: A
Vote: T
Vote: E

[SensFan]

about me being left unpaired, it makes me go all wobbly inside to have everyone trust me so much, but I'd rather we voted.

Vote: E
Vote: I
Vote: T
Vote: H
Vote: E
Vote: R

Vote: L
Vote: Y
Vote: N
Vote: C
Vote: H

Vote: M
Vote: E

Vote: O
Vote: R

Vote: I

Vote: G
Vote: O

Vote: U
Vote: N
Vote: P
Vote: A
Vote: I
Vote: R
Vote: E
Vote: D


-----

Vote: J
Vote: O
Vote: U
Vote: B
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: T

Vote: S
Vote: C
Vote: U
Vote: M

[SensFan]

Vote: J
Vote: O
Vote: U
Vote: B
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: T

Vote: S
Vote: C
Vote: U
Vote: M

Is this your result?

Vote: O
Vote: O
Vote: P
Vote: S

Vote: J
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: U

Vote: G
Vote: U
Vote: I
Vote: L
Vote: T
Vote: Y

[SensFan]

Vote: Jeru

[SensFan]

Vote: J
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: U

[SensFan]

Vote: B
Vote: A
Vote: H

Vote: G
Vote: O
Vote: T

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: F
Vote: U
Vote: S
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: B
Vote: Y

Vote: T
Vote: H
Vote: E

Vote: S
Vote: I
Vote: M
Vote: I
Vote: L
Vote: A
Vote: R

Vote: N
Vote: A
Vote: M
Vote: E
Vote: S

Unvote, Vote: Joubert

[SensFan]

Vote: Y
Vote: E
Vote: S

[SensFan]

All this is ignoring the convenient little point that, if SF were cop, he would be dead right now. The scum have absolutely no reason not to kill him.

Vote: W
Vote: I
Vote: F
Vote: O
Vote: M

[SensFan]

I'm pretty sure Jerub is town.

Vote: W
Vote: H
Vote: Y

[SensFan]

I'd rather lynch SF to verify his result than lynch Jerubbaal to lynch SF's result.

Vote: A
Vote: N
Vote: D

Vote: R
Vote: I
Vote: S
Vote: K

Vote: L
Vote: O
Vote: S
Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: G

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: P

[SensFan]

I've been rereading, and I'm willing to believe that both Korts and CES are town. I propose we lynch Jeru and make 2 pairing plans. If Jeru turns out scum, we pair ourselves and leave SF free so he can investigate. If Jeru turns out town, we leave either Korts or CES free and have the other block SF to prevent a nightkill.

I don't think we should lynch SF because like everyone's already said, we have more to lose by lynching him, and more to gain by keeping him alive if he's cop. It's better to confirm him by lynching Jeru.

Also, we'll never agree with each other on the pairings if we all make suggestions. I think we should let either CES or Korts decide, since everyone's more or less agreed that they're both town.

Vote: Q
Vote: F
Vote: T

[SensFan]

He's not the brightest bulb in the box.

Vote: N
Vote: O

Vote: P
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: S
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: A
Vote: L

Vote: A
Vote: T
Vote: T
Vote: A
Vote: C
Vote: K
Vote: S

Vote: O
Vote: K

[SensFan]

It's not a personal attack to comment on someone's skill at the game. It influences any evaluation of you and your actions significantly. Yes, I'm being somewhat derogatory, but get some thicker skin. Learn to take some criticism.

Vote: T
Vote: O
Vote: W
Vote: N

Vote: D
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: T

Vote: N
Vote: E
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: T
Vote: O

Vote: R
Vote: E
Vote: S
Vote: O
Vote: R
Vote: T

Vote: T
Vote: O

Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: S
Vote: U
Vote: L
Vote: T
Vote: S

Vote: T
Vote: O

Vote: M
Vote: A
Vote: K
Vote: E

Vote: A

Vote: C
Vote: A
Vote: S
Vote: E

[SensFan]

he's not going to screw around bastard-modding us as well.

Vote: P
Vote: R

Vote: A
Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: T

Vote: B
Vote: A
Vote: S
Vote: T
Vote: A
Vote: R
Vote: D

[SensFan]

Though it pains me to say such a thing, I don't understand something. How is CESc confirmed? I accept that I was foolish after lovo's lynch, and this confirms me up to a point, but CESc? I may have missed something.

@ Korst: Are you a roleblocker

too

?

[SensFan]

SF would be dead if he were actually the cop.

Vote: W
Vote: I
Vote: F
Vote: O
Vote: M

[SensFan]

I find it odd that the scum didn't block the cop.

Vote: W
Vote: I
Vote: F
Vote: O
Vote: M

[SensFan]

I don't think I'm being overly arrogant to call myself somewhat more experienced and perceptive than Korts, and if you're dumb enough to go through with my lynch, I'll be 100% confirmed going into night, so you can trust my pairings.

Vote: I

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: S
Vote: I
Vote: D
Vote: E
Vote: R

Vote: Y
Vote: O
Vote: U

Vote: A

Vote: T
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: R
Vote: I
Vote: B
Vote: L
Vote: E

Vote: P
Vote: L
Vote: A
Vote: Y
Vote: E
Vote: R

[SensFan]

Vote: L
Vote: Y
Vote: N
Vote: C
Vote: H

Vote: J
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: U

---

Vote: I
Vote: F

Vote: T
Vote: O
Vote: W
Vote: N

Vote: M
Vote: E

Vote: N
Vote: E
Vote: X
Vote: T

---

Vote: W
Vote: H
Vote: Y

Vote: L
Vote: Y
Vote: N
Vote: C
Vote: H

Vote: C
Vote: L
Vote: A
Vote: I
Vote: M
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: P

Vote: W
Vote: H
Vote: E
Vote: N

Vote: N
Vote: O
Vote: T

Vote: L
Vote: Y
Vote: L
Vote: O

[SensFan]

If you ignore behavior and "just" act on result without considering how reasonable that action is, you're giving scum the optimal play for their position. We lynch me, then tomorrow you lynch SF, and we're down to just two confirmed townies and we're essentially in nightless mountainous from there on out. Our chances are good from there, but it's not auto-win. If I'm still alive, we have 3 confirmed townies and it is auto-win.

Think about it, it's auto win either way, if you lynch the right man. We gain nothing by a cop (another reason for his role simply to not be here). Which do you honestly think is more likely, that SF is scum or that I'm scum? Be smart about it, because it's not such a biased decision as you all want to think it is. You just have to be right and we win.

Vote: I
Vote: F

Vote: Y
Vote: O
Vote: U
Vote: R
Vote: E

Vote: S
Vote: C
Vote: U
Vote: M

Vote: I
Vote: M

Vote: J
Vote: U
Vote: S
Vote: T

Vote: A
Vote: S

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: F
Vote: I
Vote: R
Vote: M
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: B
Vote: U
Vote: T

Vote: A

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: P

[SensFan]

It's not logical, you're not looking at the facts. Fact is we win if we lynch scum (SF). Fact is we don't auto win if you lynch me first and then SF.

Fact is there is no chance of a PR being in a mini-normal.

Think, if we have 3 confirmed townies, a supressed nightkill, and 2 scum, town wins, period. The value of a cop role in this situation is precisely nothing. Zilch. It's just another reason why Khel wouldn't include it.

You're honestly expecting me to focus on someone other than SF? He is scum, period, I am not lynching anyone else, period.

In case people are having trouble reading: COP DOES NOT HELP A TOWN WIN HERE!!!

I'm not saying that the odds are he isn't a cop, I'm saying he's not. The thought of a scenario with a PR restricted cop, all roleblockers, one of which happens to be a secret miller, is absolutely and certifiably absurd.

Are post restrictions permitted in mini-normal games?

Yes -- a couple of more "interesting" roles are permitted, just keep the fanciness to a minimum and make sure you don't write in a theme to go with your restriction.

Ok, apparently they are permitted

, but I still don't see how such a PR actually functions in this game. The intricacy of the claimed PR certainly doesn't keep the "fanciness to a minimum." Regardless, the odds of a cop being in this game are precisely zero. It's already broken enough, Khel wouldn't completely break it.

Vote: B
Vote: U
Vote: S
Vote: T
Vote: E
Vote: D

[SensFan]

You're not reading very well if you just now figured that out, SF.

CES is right, though, there's absolutely no reason for the role you have claimed to exist, at all, in this setup, in a mini-normal. MeMe said to keep the fanciness to a minimum, the PR as claimed does precisely nothing to improve the setup.

@ting - a cop doesn't help because if we lynch right today, we win. We will have 3 confirmed townies, CES, Korts, and myself, the

scum can't kill any more

, and 2 remaining scum (assuming 3 scum, which is standard for 12 people, 4 is too broken, even in this setup). We can simply systematically lynch the unconfirmeds and scum will never have a majority, even if they're the last two unconfirmeds we lynch.

Vote: N
Vote: O
Vote: T

Vote: T
Vote: R
Vote: U
Vote: E

[SensFan]

he's busy atm.

Vote: W
Vote: H
Vote: Y

Vote: R
Vote: E
Vote: P
Vote: L
Vote: A
Vote: C
Vote: E

Vote: I
Vote: F

Vote: B
Vote: U
Vote: S
Vote: Y

[SensFan]

If we choose right, we win.

Vote: S
Vote: T
Vote: I
Vote: L
Vote: L

Vote: P
Vote: O
Vote: S
Vote: S
Vote: I
Vote: B
Vote: L
Vote: E

Vote: F
Vote: O
Vote: R

Vote: A

Vote: N
Vote: K

[SensFan]

Wow, you're all still missing the point completely. Yes, if SF were town, he would be much more valuable than me. But he's not. In the end, if we lynch correctly today, we win. All you need to be worried about is figuring out who is scum and who is not. All this crap about the "correct lynch" is useless. We lynch scum, we win.

If we choose right, we win.

Vote: S
Vote: T
Vote: I
Vote: L
Vote: L

Vote: P
Vote: O
Vote: S
Vote: S
Vote: I
Vote: B
Vote: L
Vote: E

Vote: F
Vote: O
Vote: R

Vote: A

Vote: N
Vote: K

[SensFan]

PR's are made to be broken. I would be able to give you a classic example, but the game is ongoing, so i shalln't.

And ftr, im not giving up because i havent got my own way as such. Its more the fact that ive spent a fair amount of time reading the game, and coming up with the optimum play for the town. Its far too exasperating playing as part of a town which clearly cannot use the correct strategy to win the game.

Plus if i'm honest, i'm more than a tad insulted over the whole PR thing. Using a key aspect of a role in order to assess its affiliation is NOT cheating.

I've given you guys some food for thought. I cant see me being able to achieve much more in the game until some people's attitudes change.

Maybe my replacement will have more joy.

BM

Vote: D
Vote: I
Vote: E

Vote: I
Vote: N

Vote: A

Vote: F
Vote: I
Vote: R
Vote: E

[SensFan]

Sounds good. Here are the suggested pairs, for reference:
If jerubbaal turns up scum:

CESc--Korts
Battle Mage--Shanba
Joubert--Cavebear
Imat--ting

Unpaired: SF

If jerubbaal turns up town:

Korts unpaired
CES - SF
Shanba-Battle Mage
Joubert-Ting
Imat-Cavebear

(Quotes edited to replace Xyl with Battle Mage)

[SensFan]

We're getting SF to break his supposed PR first.

Vote: F
Vote: O
Vote: R

Vote: W
Vote: H
Vote: A
Vote: T

Vote: P
Vote: U
Vote: R
Vote: P
Vote: O
Vote: S
Vote: E

You're right--fixed. Also, I want to clarify: I won't give a public announcement if a PR is broken. That would be a cheap way to confirm/unconfirm Sensfan. The only time I would give a public announcement is if I had to modkill.

And to state my usual disclaimer: this neither confirms nor denies any PRs or their consequences if they do exist.

[SensFan]

If SF is cop and has a PR and breaks it, he'd be modkilled, after which we'd lynch jerub, and we'd have traded a cop for a scum. However, if he's cop, then jerub is scum, and if we lynch jerub right away, we still get the scum and won't lose the cop. So if SF is cop, he wouldn't want to break the PR because it'd be better if he didn't.

[SensFan]

sens is posting elsewhere, but avoiding here.

FoS: Sens

Vote: N
Vote: O
Vote: T
Vote: H
Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: G

Vote: T
Vote: O

Vote: S
Vote: A
Vote: Y

Vote: H
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: E

[SensFan]

SF to break his PR

Vote: L
Vote: I
Vote: K
Vote: E
Vote: L
Vote: Y

Vote: W
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: T

Vote: H
Vote: A
Vote: P
Vote: P
Vote: E
Vote: N

[SensFan]

This post earns me a private warning. Next time my PR is broken during the game, I lose my ability to investigate the following night. Third break of my PR costs me my Cop powers permanently.

[SensFan]

I don't see how SF's claim could be proven, therefore I think the best idea is to lynch him.

Vote: W
Vote: H
Vote: Y

Vote: L
Vote: Y
Vote: N
Vote: C
Vote: H

Vote: M
Vote: E

Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: L
Vote: Y

Vote: C
Vote: U
Vote: Z

Vote: I

Vote: C
Vote: A
Vote: N
Vote: T

Vote: P
Vote: R
Vote: O
Vote: V
Vote: E

Vote: M
Vote: Y
Vote: S
Vote: E
Vote: L
Vote: F

[SensFan]

Not buying it. I see absolutely no reason for you to be so resistant if your first break leads to just a private warning.

Guys, please read this. It's important and condemning.

Vote: B
Vote: U
Vote: F
Vote: F
Vote: E
Vote: R

Vote: I
Vote: N

Vote: C
Vote: A
Vote: S
Vote: E

Vote: I

Vote: M
Vote: E
Vote: S
Vote: S
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: A

Vote: T
Vote: A
Vote: G

Vote: O
Vote: R

Vote: S
Vote: O
Vote: M
Vote: E
Vote: T
Vote: H
Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: G

[SensFan]

That's a plan I'd be able to accept, too.

[SensFan]

You do realize he was quite specific about the fact that he dies in a fire if he breaks it

Vote: I

Vote: T
Vote: O
Vote: L
Vote: D

Vote: B
Vote: M

Vote: T
Vote: O

Vote: D
Vote: I
Vote: A
Vote: F

[SensFan]

[SF, why didn't you mention earlier that you wouldn't get modkilled no matter what? Or did you, and I missed it in my reread?

Vote: I

Vote: H
Vote: A
Vote: D

Vote: N
Vote: O

Vote: P
Vote: L
Vote: A
Vote: N
Vote: S

Vote: T
Vote: O

Vote: B
Vote: R
Vote: E
Vote: A
Vote: K

Vote: I
Vote: T

[SensFan]

I wouldn't mind letting this game die, to be honest.

[SensFan]

I'm dying to know, though, SensFan. Were you really a cop?

Vote: Y
Vote: E
Vote: S

[SensFan]

I've just been made of the situation here. I will do what I can to get hold of Khelvaster and let him decide what to do...but if he doesn't post here within 48 hours, I will pull the plug. Let me know via PM if you have strong feelings about having it continue and, if I get requests from a majority of you, I'll try to get a replacement mod.

Vote: G
Vote: G

SensFan looks to be awaiting some sort of answer.

[SensFan]

As a child, you had a very bad accident involving a bicycle, a barbed wire fence, and an angry wolverine. You almost died of an infection that got into your wounds, but your mother was very religious. She believed God's will would save you. This obviously didn't happen, as you were taken away by child protective services before you died and given legitimate medicine. You've also been committing the abductions. By abducting all these people, you hope to drive away the rest of the populace and then loot the abandoned houses. You can also go stake houses out without breaking in, leaving one of your fellow mafia to do the actual abductions. Staking a house out is much easier business, and you will intimidate the house's owner quite a bit. He will see you outside (but not know your identity,) be afraid, and not leave his house that night if he would do so.

This means

you are the mafia roleblocker

. Your atheist tendancies also have led you to be immune to any sort of cult recruitment. You can roleblock one playear per night. Your partners are jeru, mafia Godfather-roleblocker, and xylthixlm, un-NKable mafia.

As an addendum, *DO NOT* claim townie in the event of a mass claim. Trust me on this. The claim you should claim will be obvious when the time comes. I was advised to add these last lines in by the person I made this setup with for balance reasons.

[SensFan]

I'm basically the mafia GF. Pissed as hell when SF claimed that he had a guilty result on me, because if I get lynched, he's proved to not be the cop anyway. In the end, it might have been for the better, because the only chance in heck we have to win this is to get someone in the "confirmed" column and then execute in endgame.

Yeah.

About that, my Role PM said I was the GF.

[SensFan]

Anyway, does that mean that you were faking the PR, SF?

Yep.

[SensFan]

I'm basically the mafia GF. Pissed as hell when SF claimed that he had a guilty result on me, because if I get lynched, he's proved to not be the cop anyway. In the end, it might have been for the better, because the only chance in heck we have to win this is to get someone in the "confirmed" column and then execute in endgame.

Yeah.

About that, my Role PM said I was the GF.

The PM you quoted doesn't say that.

That's not my original PM. That is one that the Mod sent me, when I asked for it to be resent, having had BM ask me why I was bussing the GF.

[SensFan]

I mean, this is pure art! It takes five minutes for a short sentence. If he's faking it, he's good. I mean

good

. And full of horseshit, the idiot.

Vote: T
Vote: H
Vote: A
Vote: N
Vote: K
Vote: S

SensFan takes a bow.