Large Normal 246: Game Over

[Guillotina]

I have to leave soon

[Guillotina]

I will not be here for EoD, so im gonna have to place my final vote in the next 43 minutes

[Guillotina]

What has Cele done since they softed PR?

Ive only seen them post when their name is brought up.

[Guillotina]

Actually i lie, he has some opinions on key and hu tao.

I like his tone too.

Yah, if i have to choose now.

VOTE: Gamma

[Guillotina]

And Gamma, if you are town, im very sorry but i just cant forget how you cracked under pressure.

[Guillotina]

Welcome to Large Normal 246! You are a Town Babysitter Hider.

You have the following active abilities, which you may use one of per night:

Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be protected from one direct kill, but will die if you are killed.

Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will be immune that Night to kills targeted at you directly, but will die if a player kills your target.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Im very confused of how Black's role is supposed to work here cause unless im very very dumb, that role is pretty much saying that black is immortal

[Guillotina]

I was gonna apologize to gamma for implying for pressuring her so hard while having a mental breakdown, i guess i will do it post game.

[Guillotina]

Gamma's dead looks good for Kyouko, i have to check my pre-flip associations again to see who else may be spewed town.

[Guillotina]

But i cant right now. Sunday football

[Guillotina]

Hi Im just checking in to avoid being prodded. My bot for my server went down and the original developer is unavailable, so I have to sort that out first, or I will not have a head to play here. Please bear with me. Sorry

[Guillotina]

I feel like such a clown for calling GE obvtown lol.

I also didn't read the last 20 pages of Day 1, I wonder if I should read them or just skip it all.

Somebody mentioned E-1'ing people for claims - who claimed other than Hu Tao?

You should read them all, 20 pages is a lot of content you are missing.

[Guillotina]

Gamma was also unaligned with Black

You are stating obvious, Gamma flipped red and Black flipped green. Whats the point of saying stuff that everyone can see? Sus
VOTE: Broccoli

How is that alignment indicative?

[Guillotina]

Naerys why is it scum indicative to make a note of somwthong obvious and then say it's irrelevant?

It feels like trying to be seen as doing something while not doing much.

Busywork. Ok, valid.

[Guillotina]

Good morning, Hu Tao lied. She’s vanilla.

VOTE: Hu Tao

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Guillotina]

Claimed doctor to get us off of their backs yesterday, that is what happened.

[Guillotina]

Good morning, Hu Tao lied. She’s vanilla.

VOTE: Hu Tao

I know she lied but she's town anyway.

You know? how did you figure this?

[Guillotina]

Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.

Ok Naerys is town unless exactly scum with Hu Tao, pocketing Broccoli and setting him up for a misyeet later if Hu Tao flips scum.

[Guillotina]

There are a few fairly limited places where it's beneficial for town to lie. I don't think derailing a wagon on yourself is one of them.

I don't see how is it beneficial to claim doctor and risk being counterclaimed by a real one if they exist, as town. In fact if there is one, they still shouldn't counterclaim and I hope that is what is happening now.
Fake claiming doctor there at the time they did and how they did it was scummy and even though we did the optimal play to try to let it be resolved at night, it obviously will not work cause if Hu is town, this lie makes them misyeetable for scum and if they are scum well.. they won't night kill themselves, will they.

[Guillotina]

Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.

Havent finished my thoughts here, lol. Sent it by mistake.
Anyway, while faking doctor is something Hu Tao did as town, i think we need to look at her behavior since beginning. First she claims vanilla, then when she gets pushed she claims doctor. At the very best she feels untrustworthy, at the worst these are scummy moves. She could be doing it bcz she knows there are players who have seen her faking doctor as town, so she counts on that those will TR her.
Conclusion: flipping Hu gives us decent info. It solves potential Hu+Broccoli+Gamma buddies.
VOTE: Hu Tao

Yup

[Guillotina]

I’m certainly not going to listen to Hu Tao. I suppose she could have lied to cover any other PR and avoid getting limmed, but I think it’s more likely she’s a goon.

I am telling you she's a VT who fake claimed doc. I wasn't buying her claim for a second.

If Hu Tao is scum, Broccoli is not their partner. I don't see scum willingly associating themselves with a mechanically outed partner this way.

[Guillotina]

Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.

Havent finished my thoughts here, lol. Sent it by mistake.
Anyway, while faking doctor is something Hu Tao did as town, i think we need to look at her behavior since beginning. First she claims vanilla, then when she gets pushed she claims doctor. At the very best she feels untrustworthy, at the worst these are scummy moves. She could be doing it bcz she knows there are players who have seen her faking doctor as town, so she counts on that those will TR her.
Conclusion: flipping Hu gives us decent info. It solves potential Hu+Broccoli+Gamma buddies.
VOTE: Hu Tao

This is rubbish. You think broccoli was scumreading me yesterday. I was scumreading gamma. And we are all teamed?

You could be. Distancing exists, after all.

You said I claimed doctor as vanilla town before. Yet you think I scum still?

You claim Doctor as vanilla all the time under the exact same circumstances?

[Guillotina]

Makes no sense as a town role cop to claim vanilla result on me here when goon was flipped already in a complex setup

So you think Cele is lying?

I think Cele is a scum role cop potentially. I'll quote the doc soft

This is not a natural thought. Why claim that you are vanilla instead of leaving you alone knowing you can't do shit at night as scum? Why reveal that information for the rest of the town? And why enter in a thunderdome with you after losing Gamma?

[Guillotina]

I forgot about the Miller claims. So town might have a role cop. Why cele would waste it on me, not sure.

This sounds like salty scum. It's a great thing they actually checked you. Bravo Cele! *Claps*

[Guillotina]

Cele I would go as far as to say try and look for vanilla results. They will probably be town.

Huh? If they are a vanilla cop, goons and vanilla will give result "Vanilla" as in powerless.

[Guillotina]

I don't

b

elieve the claim at all. I also don't believe for a second that Hu Tao thought she was actually hammered so the claim itself was no way a twilight-esque spew. It was a calculated gambit.

I was waiting for Guillo's opinion on the Hu Tao claim. He's a bold person and if he doesn't think a Hu Tao lim is the play I'll sheep that I guess. I still think Hu Tao is probably scum so the only way she'll go is through limming.

Can I also just say, love it or hate it, having gob in the game really spices things up.

Even though she wants me dead, I still don't think Kyouko's the play today.

This might seem completely out of left field, but I am just pondering scenario's. In a game this size, and considering Hu Tao's claim of Complex Indecisive Doctor, is a second town protective role likely balance-wise or would that be too town sided?

Here is why I thought Celebloki was softing bodyguard. They capitalize a b in the first post here, and in the next post they make they use the word 'bold'. Their third post asks if a second town protective role would be likely.

By the way, I also capitalized a b in 1263

It seems they are instead claiming some kind of a rolecop role, which is confusing to me given their behavior above.

Hmmm

Celebloki

Do you hard claim this result? As in you cannot retract this result later if you hard claim it.

[Guillotina]

Lastly I think Gob lied about their reason for replacing out being that they were in too many games. Point being they joined a new game right after replacing out of this one and have posted nearly a hundred times on the site since then.

Hosts modkill players for reads like this one where I come from.

[Guillotina]

For fun

No, you were under a lot of pressure when you did.

[Guillotina]

Well I did openly claim so you're always free to check me!

What did you claim?

Spoiler:

I don't

b

elieve the claim at all. I also don't believe for a second that Hu Tao thought she was actually hammered so the claim itself was no way a twilight-esque spew. It was a calculated gambit.

I was waiting for Guillo's opinion on the Hu Tao claim. He's a bold person and if he doesn't think a Hu Tao lim is the play I'll sheep that I guess. I still think Hu Tao is probably scum so the only way she'll go is through limming.

Can I also just say, love it or hate it, having gob in the game really spices things up.

Even though she wants me dead, I still don't think Kyouko's the play today.

This might seem completely out of left field, but I am just pondering scenario's. In a game this size, and considering Hu Tao's claim of Complex Indecisive Doctor, is a second town protective role likely balance-wise or would that be too town sided?

Here is why I thought Celebloki was softing bodyguard. They capitalize a b in the first post here, and in the next post they make they use the word 'bold'. Their third post asks if a second town protective role would be likely.

By the way, I also capitalized a b in 1263

It seems they are instead claiming some kind of a rolecop role, which is confusing to me given their behavior above.

Yeah I also noticed that bolded B and thought it was probably a crumb.

Also the context of those first 2 posts is Celebloki saying they don't believe Hu Tao's claim so it made sense to me that they were also a protective in distress.

Yep.

Lastly I think Gob lied about their reason for replacing out being that they were in too many games. Point being they joined a new game right after replacing out of this one and have posted nearly a hundred times on the site since then.

VOTE: Dunnstral
Gobs reason is his own and this post is really bad.

Naerys, I agree with you that it's not cool to speculate on replacements, but that post is not even mildly scum indicative for Dunn.

I’m certainly not going to listen to Hu Tao. I suppose she could have lied to cover any other PR and avoid getting limmed, but I think it’s more likely she’s a goon.

I am telling you she's a VT who fake claimed doc. I wasn't buying her claim for a second.

If Hu Tao flips Scum I want this slot examined next.

Why exactly? Do you think my persistent SR of Hu Tao Day 1 was just an act? And do you think I'd say the above as a partner?

My plan originally was to investigate the millers. If I live to and through tonight I plan to do that. I won't go further on what my crumbs meant. They do have a purpose, but it's not beneficial to town to go into them right now.

Um, I think it IS beneficial to town to explain the crumbs because you're kinda under fire.

Though I will admit my gut reaction is to believw your claim (just like Hu Tao), so maybe I should just silently let you go on with it.

Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.

They are still trying to confuse things by saying they protected Gamma when they didn't. Where is the town motivation there?

Are people not reading the game... like actually.

Yeah I'm really baffled here

Oh wait I understand. Black did the first one. Protected gamma and they both died.

I guess I misinterpreted this post?

No you understood it perfectly. Black used her babysitter on Gamma which resulted in Gamma's death.

I'm confused as to why people think Hu Tao is town and lied.

Oh that's easy.

She didn't even try to sound like she's a real doctor and her VT claim was much more genuine. Also Gamma flip makes Hu Tao very town, Gamma was opportunistically trying to ride on my Hu Tao wagon yesterday for a miselim.

I don't think you are scum here if Tao is scum, but I do think you could be scum with TMI if Hu Tao is town.

[Guillotina]

So Hu lied about their claim but it's cool because they are obv-town, Dunn can't understand Black's role and how it resulted in Gamma's death, Celeb soft-suggested a protective role and apparently crumbed some clues but now says they are an investigator and yet we are believing them as well even though they will explain itall tomorrow, does that sum things up?

Why is Hu obvious town?

[Guillotina]

I am claiming role cop, not any other kind of cop. It returns whatever the slots role is, but I don't get alignment. If the slot is VT, Goon, whatever, I'm supposed to get something to indicate it's a generic role so I don't get alignment. For Hu Tao I got Vanilla. This could mean VT, Goon, SK, whatever the basic role for a faction is.

I was excited when the game started and we had 2 Miller claims, because if I check one and get Miller, that's pretty set what it means.

Then why didn't you?

[Guillotina]

I don't buy someone claiming Vanilla, then doctor after being pushed, and then someone else claims to have a result that Hu Tao is Vanilla.

Too much murkiness to allow that slot to go unresolved Day 2.

Correct

[Guillotina]

My plan originally was to investigate the millers. If I live to and through tonight I plan to do that. I won't go further on what my crumbs meant. They do have a purpose, but it's not beneficial to town to go into them right now.

This is what I mean. Yes I left crumbs but I won't explain it, but I'll check the Miller's? Checking a claimed Miller is the easiest path for a fake cop to try to keep the ruse going.

I don't understand this logic

[Guillotina]

You made this post and I wonder how you could reply to this without realizing Hu Tao was a Doctor claim:

Celebloki claimed role cop and claimed that Hu is Vanilla. Pay attention, please.
This could be scum disconnected from game. I got my eyes on you.

????

[Guillotina]

I'm constantly flip-flopping on Naerys, sometimes they have great towny posts and some other times she has level 0 scummy posts.

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Hu Tao

Nice naked vote there

[Guillotina]

Ok Ive caught up, now time to back read for Gamma's spew.

[Guillotina]

This

Summary

Still pretending I'm an spectator where Guillotina is not me.

Not mafia/mafia

Hu/Guillo
Random Nurse/Guillo
Gamma/Guillo
Timmer/Guillo
Celebloki/Guillo
Black/Guillo
Kawaii/Guillo
Kyo/Guillo
Naerys/Guillo
Kyo/Kawaii
Dunn/Elements
Dave/Elements
Black/Elements
Gamma/Elements
Gamma/Random Nurse
Hu Tao/Timmer

What does this mean?

In a world where my pre-flip associations are 100% accurate (they've never been 100% accurate before, but really close they have).

Guillo

is unaligned with 9 players
Element is unaligned with with 4 Players
Gamma is unaligned 2 Players

This means that if Guillo was scum in this game, He spewed half the game town on Day 1 alone, and it would have been really easy to pinpoint who his teammates were, from the remaining players. Too bad Guillo is town, though.

This also means that if any of those 9 are scum, Guillo is spewed town from them
Counterpoint to that would be, Guillo did some premium distancing, but I'm hopeful that if any of them flip scum, Guillo would have helped town to prove his worth and loyalty besides this spew.

Elements

flipping scum would spew Dunn, Dave, Black and Gamma town.

Gamma

flipping scum would hard spew Elements and Random Nurse town.

Timmer

flipping scum would clear

Hu

and Vice versa.

Conclusion

Guillo being unaligned with 9 players out of 16 makes him thread spew town or the best infoyeet of 2023 if the majority of players here suspect him that much.

Elements would clear a whooping total of 4 players town, so if these two were scum together, the game would be pretty much on auto mode.

I can confirm that Guillo is not scum, so we are not living in a perfect world where town auto this shit.

Hopefully this injects my thoughts and process in the thread and I have helped you determine whether I deserve the sussuspicion I've gotten so far or not, as well as some insights about the interactions between some of the players.
If you have questions or concerns about this post or my previous posts, let me know.
Hopefully when I come back I'll have more info to analyze, but for now, good night.

VOTE: Celebloki

This

I'm at page 11

Gamma Emerald - lean scum

Spoiler:

I claim miller

Same

jfc

Strange reaction

Gamma you've still got your rvs vote on me, why?

haven’t felt a need to move it
VOTE: KawaiiKame
They pinged me somewhat with how they unvoted kyouko, not strongly though

I feel like forgetting your vote is +scum and this reads a bit hedge-y

Random Nurse
Celebloki
Naerys-

For now my first impressions are that dave and both millers could be town.
Still too far from finding a scum, but its a start.

Was it just for the question he asked or was there more to it?

davesaz
Hu Tao - town

Spoiler: I townread all of these quotes

VT

I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

So scum will not target me and I can last till end game. I believe in myself to find scum as long as I'm alive long enough. Now I just need to be towny enough to not be voted out. I've eliminated half of the work.

I think Hu Tao was just joking with the VT claim

Nope. I'm VT

Timmer feels town so far

The "I'm terrible at D1" feels more like a townie trying to explain why he doesn't have many reads as opposed to Mafia worried about their optics

They seem curious but scum can also be curious so I'm not giving them that easy of a town read so far.

Elements is a champion baffler for sure.

I'm not inclined to vote for the millers. I think I agree with Gamma's take.

Not sure why but this post gives me scum pings. I wish I could tell you why

I belive Dunn and ssbm's claim. Unless the small chance they are scum together or scum informed of miller's in this game. Either way, I wouldn't want them today at the very least. If there are actual millers, there is likely a way to confirm that somehow regardless.

Broccoli Quest 2
Guillotina
Cat Scratch Fever
Keyleth
Dunnstral - I was inclined to believe the miller claim out of the gate but kind of hate his posting (sorry). I dunno
KawaiiKame - town
ssbm_Kyouko - town
TimmerRC - early posts spoilered below kinda pinged scum but then 111 was good

Spoiler:

VT

I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

It's been awhile, remind me why voting millers is the best option?

Elements - town for having zero filter and just livetweeting every thought she has into the void
Andresvmb
Black

Your read on me sucks ass
viewtopic.php?t=91760
Read that and try telling me my reaction to two miller claims happening doesn’t make sense!
As for my vote, I didn’t forget, I just hadn’t been strongly pinged by anything by that time

And Kyouko's meta case on Gamma

Are what I would outline as hard spew from Gamma.

So to summarize, in my opinion, besides myself, these are the players that completely look unaligned from Gamma.

Elements
Random Nurse
Cat person slot
Kyouko

[Guillotina]

This sounds like town!Naerys to me.

Care to give me Naerys' full meta? Are they the kind of player that I should have low expectations from?

[Guillotina]

I know who the real doctor is. I thought it was pretty obvious? Check my ISO.

If the doctor is anyone else other than Hu Tao, why are you defending Hu Tao?
I'm not interested in getting the doctor outted, but how did you come by this info considering Celeb is the role cop?

[Guillotina]

If I recall correctly, she did fake claim doctor while being wagoned as VT in the past

And they've never done it as scum?

[Guillotina]

Do you think it's scum indicative? I think it might be because I know Hu Tao's wagon is shit.

I've always hated naked votes. If it was not because Roden is Cat's replacement whom I believe was spewed town from Gamma's reaction to their push, I would be hard pressuring them.

[Guillotina]

Guillotina could you please quote the posts that spew Elements town in your opinion?

Did you check my association analysis I posted on day 1? If not, then do that first.

[Guillotina]

In any event, I haven’t read why Hu Tao is getting pushed today for some claim, but that’s a really easy way to lose the game (focusing on claims versus play).

I disagree.

Hu Tao claimed vanilla which I didn't believe, i thought it was a shitpost claim. Then later on as they got in a lot of pressure, they claimed Doctor, we let them live because we figure such a claim would be resolved in two nights max, no doctor claim lives that long unless scum wanna WIFOM.
Then Celeb today outed Hu Tao as Vanilla.

Why is this scummy?

Because when they claimed they could have baited a real Doctor claim which is what scum do as a last ditch before getting yeeted, either hoping to be believed or to force a real doctor claim.
And second although it was an effect beyond their control, they baited a cop check too.

We can't trust Hu Tao, I, for one, know that in an F3 scenario where i'm part of it with Hu Tao and someone else, I won't be able to ignore this and vote Hu Tao out. I will not be the schmuck who let mafia win after fake claiming doctor all things considered as outlined above.

[Guillotina]

Gamma
tried to imply the Doctor claim could come from scum by claiming Gunsmith, a role that would be able to clear Millers but would get a false positive on a Scum Doctor.

Show me this please

[Guillotina]

@Guillotina

Spoiler: quoted a large post

This

Summary

Still pretending I'm an spectator where Guillotina is not me.

Not mafia/mafia

Hu/Guillo
Random Nurse/Guillo
Gamma/Guillo
Timmer/Guillo
Celebloki/Guillo
Black/Guillo
Kawaii/Guillo
Kyo/Guillo
Naerys/Guillo
Kyo/Kawaii
Dunn/Elements
Dave/Elements
Black/Elements
Gamma/Elements
Gamma/Random Nurse
Hu Tao/Timmer

What does this mean?

In a world where my pre-flip associations are 100% accurate (they've never been 100% accurate before, but really close they have).

Guillo

is unaligned with 9 players
Element is unaligned with with 4 Players
Gamma is unaligned 2 Players

This means that if Guillo was scum in this game, He spewed half the game town on Day 1 alone, and it would have been really easy to pinpoint who his teammates were, from the remaining players. Too bad Guillo is town, though.

This also means that if any of those 9 are scum, Guillo is spewed town from them
Counterpoint to that would be, Guillo did some premium distancing, but I'm hopeful that if any of them flip scum, Guillo would have helped town to prove his worth and loyalty besides this spew.

Elements

flipping scum would spew Dunn, Dave, Black and Gamma town.

Gamma

flipping scum would hard spew Elements and Random Nurse town.

Timmer

flipping scum would clear

Hu

and Vice versa.

Conclusion

Guillo being unaligned with 9 players out of 16 makes him thread spew town or the best infoyeet of 2023 if the majority of players here suspect him that much.

Elements would clear a whooping total of 4 players town, so if these two were scum together, the game would be pretty much on auto mode.

I can confirm that Guillo is not scum, so we are not living in a perfect world where town auto this shit.

Hopefully this injects my thoughts and process in the thread and I have helped you determine whether I deserve the sussuspicion I've gotten so far or not, as well as some insights about the interactions between some of the players.
If you have questions or concerns about this post or my previous posts, let me know.
Hopefully when I come back I'll have more info to analyze, but for now, good night.

VOTE: Celebloki

This

I'm at page 11

Gamma Emerald - lean scum

Spoiler:

I claim miller

Same

jfc

Strange reaction

Gamma you've still got your rvs vote on me, why?

haven’t felt a need to move it
VOTE: KawaiiKame
They pinged me somewhat with how they unvoted kyouko, not strongly though

I feel like forgetting your vote is +scum and this reads a bit hedge-y

Random Nurse
Celebloki
Naerys-

For now my first impressions are that dave and both millers could be town.
Still too far from finding a scum, but its a start.

Was it just for the question he asked or was there more to it?

davesaz
Hu Tao - town

Spoiler: I townread all of these quotes

VT

I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

So scum will not target me and I can last till end game. I believe in myself to find scum as long as I'm alive long enough. Now I just need to be towny enough to not be voted out. I've eliminated half of the work.

I think Hu Tao was just joking with the VT claim

Nope. I'm VT

Timmer feels town so far

The "I'm terrible at D1" feels more like a townie trying to explain why he doesn't have many reads as opposed to Mafia worried about their optics

They seem curious but scum can also be curious so I'm not giving them that easy of a town read so far.

Elements is a champion baffler for sure.

I'm not inclined to vote for the millers. I think I agree with Gamma's take.

Not sure why but this post gives me scum pings. I wish I could tell you why

I belive Dunn and ssbm's claim. Unless the small chance they are scum together or scum informed of miller's in this game. Either way, I wouldn't want them today at the very least. If there are actual millers, there is likely a way to confirm that somehow regardless.

Broccoli Quest 2
Guillotina
Cat Scratch Fever
Keyleth
Dunnstral - I was inclined to believe the miller claim out of the gate but kind of hate his posting (sorry). I dunno
KawaiiKame - town
ssbm_Kyouko - town
TimmerRC - early posts spoilered below kinda pinged scum but then 111 was good

Spoiler:

VT

I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

It's been awhile, remind me why voting millers is the best option?

Elements - town for having zero filter and just livetweeting every thought she has into the void
Andresvmb
Black

Your read on me sucks ass
viewtopic.php?t=91760
Read that and try telling me my reaction to two miller claims happening doesn’t make sense!
As for my vote, I didn’t forget, I just hadn’t been strongly pinged by anything by that time

And Kyouko's meta case on Gamma

Are what I would outline as hard spew from Gamma.

So to summarize, in my opinion, besides myself, these are the players that completely look unaligned from Gamma.

Elements
Random Nurse
Cat person slot
Kyouko

When you made 595 did you have quotes to support Gamma/Guillo, RN/Gamma, and Elements/Gamma all not being scum together? I think reading 569 that excluding CSF/gob/Roden slot as a Gamma partner maybe makes sense, so if you had quotes for the others in notes or in a previous post could you share?

It is in my ISO, the association posts that lead to that conclusion wall post, ISO me.

[Guillotina]

Hmm

UNVOTE:

A lot of sense is being made regarding Hu. I'm not ready to give her a clear the rest of the game, but I can agree that she's not a good lim today. At the very least we know she's not a scum PR and so effort is probably best going elsewhere.

Hu Tao is a highly likely a goon, and a scum dead is a scum dead.

[Guillotina]

I'm not sure what to make of guillotine at the moment.

I intend to get you executed today.

[Guillotina]

Hu Tao - known liar, fake claims as scum a lot, possible distancing.

Can someone else confirm this?

[Guillotina]

Broccoli Quest 2 - I get a TMI vibe. Can't really point to anything specific without more flips

TMI on whom or what?

[Guillotina]

Anyway I still think there is/was one scum on Hu Tao's wagon and since I TR everyone else (except Naerys who's just null town), I am going to VOTE: Roden

I oppose their elimination over Hu Tao

[Guillotina]

I feel town is at a point where they are about to get complacent after Gamma's lucky death by making suboptimal plays.

[Guillotina]

I feel town is at a point where they are about to get complacent after Gamma's lucky death by making suboptimal plays.

I agree, but I think the suboptimal play is limming Hu Tao.

Can you explain why you'd oppose Roden?

2 Reasons.

1) Roden in Cat's slot whom Gamma overreacted to when Cat accused her, that in my opinion spews Roden not partnered with Gamma.

2) They are an AFK slot, yeeting them provides no info and frankly i rather leave it for the host to take care of the slot if they never post.

[Guillotina]

This sounds like town!Naerys to me.

Care to give me Naerys' full meta? Are they the kind of player that I should have low expectations from?

I am not really sure what "full meta" means, but Naerys tends to semi-lurk, semi-scum hunt, and be overdefensive as town. Which is what she's been doing here.
Additionally her tone sounds similar to her town games but I actually think there's a reasonable chance she could fake that tone as scum so that's probably NAI.

I know who the real doctor is. I thought it was pretty obvious? Check my ISO.

If the doctor is anyone else other than Hu Tao, why are you defending Hu Tao?
I'm not interested in getting the doctor outted, but how did you come by this info considering Celeb is the role cop?

I'd rather not say how I know the doctor's identity.
I've been defending Hu Tao because she retracted the Doc claim (which I thought was scummy), because I believed her VT claim is real (which it probably is), because all of her posting toDay gutpinged me town a lot, and because Gamma, flipped scum, was pretty focused on limming Hu Tao yesterday (in a way that doesn't feel like bussing to me).

Hu Tao retracted the Doc claim because they were investigated as Vanilla...

So what

What you mean so what?

Broc.

What dont you understand about

1) Hu Tao claims Doctor under pressure and at a point she was about to be eliminated which if
a) she is scum she did it to bait out the real doctor claim.
b) she is town, she risked making the real doctor counterclaim to save herself as vanilla. Vanilla has one job and that is to cover for PRs.

2) We cant trust her if she is a known fake claimer as either alignment.
The optimal play is to eliminate Hu Tao to make sure she is indeed town.

Im not unvoting

[Guillotina]

Let me explain something.

Scum!Hu Tao would not retract the claim the way they did here. They would hard push Celebloki to a lim.

And she would have lost the thunderdome.

[Guillotina]

To make clear where I stand:

Spewed town by gamma: Nurse, Guillo, Kyouko, Hu Tao(?), Myself (I already know I'm town but objectively I'm also spewed by interactions with Gamma)

Pretty towny: davesaz (mindmeld on reads), Celeb (guilty on HT felt organic), Dunnstral (I already forgot why but I'm pretty sure I have good reasons to TR this slot)

PoE left: Naerys, Keyleth, Roden, Elements, Andres, Timmer

Out of these I'm actually sus of Elements, Roden, Timmer. But I'm pretty sure this is not the exact scum team.

Choose your pick of which of these three to wagon, or make a case on any of the other three in the PoE, and I will vote there.

If it was up to me, no one would be eliminated today except for Hu Tao unless someone comes with a mech scum result on someone else.
I'm not going to delay the optimal play here, the longer Hu Tao lives the better for scum regardless of her alignment, the longer Hu Tao lives, the worse the game state will become, and it is better to eliminate her now than waiting for mylo/lylo situation to do so where we would lose if she is town. So stop going for the suboptimal play or I'm going to have to retract my townread on you, because I can only see scum benefiting for letting her live here. We need to know if Hu Tao is town and the only way we are finding out for sure is with her flip.

[Guillotina]

And this is the last time I'm gonna say anything about that slot, I wanna find behavioral clues on potential Gamma's partners.

[Guillotina]

2) We cant trust her if she is a known fake claimer as either alignment.
The optimal play is to eliminate Hu Tao to make sure she is indeed town.

Counterpoint: If she's a known fake claimer as either alignment, her fake claim is NAI and you gotta judge her for other aspects of her play.

I'm judging her for her play in this game, the point 1 which you left out and didnt comment on.

[Guillotina]

I really don't want to get voted out the moment I finally finish reading

And when do you estimate that will be? in real life time that is.

[Guillotina]

I very much dislike all the posts where someone is saying "x is spewed by gamma"
seems like a very good way to lose

It's a very good way to lose if we let them rise on that cred without them making an effort to try to solve and win the game. What do you think of the alleged spewed town people yourself?

[Guillotina]

I'm trying to reconcile Kyouko's shade on me. Maybe she really has a grudge for my 'safe' RVS vote. Maybe this is one of my patented crackpot theories, but why do I get the feeling that Kyouko and maybe Timmer are trying to push a narrative that I shouldn't be using my role to confirm millers because she really doesn't want me to target her. I feel like I'm being setup to either get mislimmed before I can try, or they are trying to convince me I should use my role elsewhere. Confirming millers imo is a good use of the role. There's not much grey area getting a Miller result on what their alignment is.

It is your role, don't let anyone control the use of it in any way or form.

[Guillotina]

To make clear where I stand:

Spewed town by gamma: Nurse, Guillo, Kyouko, Hu Tao(?), Myself (I already know I'm town but objectively I'm also spewed by interactions with Gamma)

Pretty towny: davesaz (mindmeld on reads), Celeb (guilty on HT felt organic), Dunnstral (I already forgot why but I'm pretty sure I have good reasons to TR this slot)

PoE left: Naerys, Keyleth, Roden, Elements, Andres, Timmer

Out of these I'm actually sus of Elements, Roden, Timmer. But I'm pretty sure this is not the exact scum team.

Choose your pick of which of these three to wagon, or make a case on any of the other three in the PoE, and I will vote there.

If it was up to me, no one would be eliminated today except for Hu Tao unless someone comes with a mech scum result on someone else.
I'm not going to delay the optimal play here, the longer Hu Tao lives the better for scum regardless of her alignment, the longer Hu Tao lives, the worse the game state will become, and it is better to eliminate her now than waiting for mylo/lylo situation to do so where we would lose if she is town.

So stop going for the suboptimal play or I'm going to have to retract my townread on you

, because I can only see scum benefiting for letting her live here. We need to know if Hu Tao is town and the only way we are finding out for sure is with her flip.

LOL

Are you THREATENING me?

I'd be down to vote Hu Tao despite my TR if it helped the game state, but not I'm not voting her on principle due to you threatening me. Reads are not punishment (or rewards). They are reads.

2) We cant trust her if she is a known fake claimer as either alignment.
The optimal play is to eliminate Hu Tao to make sure she is indeed town.

Counterpoint: If she's a known fake claimer as either alignment,

her fake claim is NAI

and you gotta judge her for

other aspects of her play

.

I'm judging her for her play in this game, the point 1 which you left out and didnt comment on.

You mean the point 1 which is explicitly about fake claiming?

1)

Hu Tao claims Doctor

under pressure and at a point she was about to be eliminated which if
a) she is scum she did it to bait out the real doctor claim.
b) she is town, she risked making the real doctor counterclaim to save herself as vanilla. Vanilla has one job and that is to cover for PRs.

If you can give me ONE reason that Hu Tao is scum that doesn't include any of the following words, I might be willing to vote her:
{claim, fake, Doctor, Vanilla, role}

If she really is scum, it shouldn't be too hard to find such a reason.

So you consider a threat that i stop townreading you? Nooice! =D
If you flip scum in this game this is the post im gonna point out that spews me not partnered with you, thank you very much.

Im promoting the optimal play. This is not a case of “yeet all liars”, Hu Tao fake claimed a CCable role and put an important role at risk if it exists in this game. Whether Hu Tao is scum (most likely) or she is a high liability townie, there is no way to know as they were already copped and got caught lying so the next step after a check is the yeet! what dont you understand? Or what am i not understanding from you?

[Guillotina]

To make clear where I stand:

Spewed town by gamma: Nurse, Guillo, Kyouko, Hu Tao(?), Myself (I already know I'm town but objectively I'm also spewed by interactions with Gamma)

Pretty towny: davesaz (mindmeld on reads), Celeb (guilty on HT felt organic), Dunnstral (I already forgot why but I'm pretty sure I have good reasons to TR this slot)

PoE left: Naerys, Keyleth, Roden, Elements, Andres, Timmer

Out of these I'm actually sus of Elements, Roden, Timmer. But I'm pretty sure this is not the exact scum team.

Choose your pick of which of these three to wagon, or make a case on any of the other three in the PoE, and I will vote there.

If it was up to me, no one would be eliminated today except for Hu Tao unless someone comes with a mech scum result on someone else.
I'm not going to delay the optimal play here, the longer Hu Tao lives the better for scum regardless of her alignment, the longer Hu Tao lives, the worse the game state will become, and it is better to eliminate her now than waiting for mylo/lylo situation to do so where we would lose if she is town.

So stop going for the suboptimal play or I'm going to have to retract my townread on you

, because I can only see scum benefiting for letting her live here. We need to know if Hu Tao is town and the only way we are finding out for sure is with her flip.

LOL

Are you THREATENING me?

I'd be down to vote Hu Tao despite my TR if it helped the game state, but not I'm not voting her on principle due to you threatening me. Reads are not punishment (or rewards). They are reads.

2) We cant trust her if she is a known fake claimer as either alignment.
The optimal play is to eliminate Hu Tao to make sure she is indeed town.

Counterpoint: If she's a known fake claimer as either alignment,

her fake claim is NAI

and you gotta judge her for

other aspects of her play

.

I'm judging her for her play in this game, the point 1 which you left out and didnt comment on.

You mean the point 1 which is explicitly about fake claiming?

1)

Hu Tao claims Doctor

under pressure and at a point she was about to be eliminated which if
a) she is scum she did it to bait out the real doctor claim.
b) she is town, she risked making the real doctor counterclaim to save herself as vanilla. Vanilla has one job and that is to cover for PRs.

If you can give me ONE reason that Hu Tao is scum that doesn't include any of the following words, I might be willing to vote her:
{claim, fake, Doctor, Vanilla, role}

If she really is scum, it shouldn't be too hard to find such a reason.

So you consider a threat that i stop townreading you? Nooice! =D
If you flip scum in this game this is the post im gonna point out that spews me not partnered with you, thank you very much.

Im promoting the optimal play. This is not a case of “yeet all liars”, Hu Tao fake claimed a CCable role and put an important role at risk if it exists in this game. Whether Hu Tao is scum (most likely) or she is a high liability townie, there is no way to know as they were already copped and got caught lying so the next step after a check is the yeet! what dont you understand? Or what am i not understanding from you?

Facts: no town PRs CCed them. Hu Tao is confirmed vanilla and can't do it again. So what's the liability now that it's said and done?

Facts: They Fake claimed doctor while being powerless, potentially risking a real doctor CC, then got caught lying at night by the cop.

[Guillotina]

Obviously I meant the thinking they were hammered part. Dude.

yeah and that’s why I find your word choice an issue. I don’t see how you are undecided on the legitimacy of the reaction, so it feels like manufactured leeway.

You don't believe it could have been a real reaction, to the point that anyone using a simple term to indicate that none of us know if it was or not is scummy to you?

That's not manufactured leeway that's me saying I've seen a lot of weird shit in mafia and I don't jump to assumptions very quickly because of it.

Kyouko, why do you say that TimmerRC could be partnered with Gamma?

[Guillotina]

Guillotine, we all have to make choices in life. This is the moment you'll be remembered for in this game. Where you join obvious Hu Taown in winning this game OR help scum win this game.

Which do you choose?

1) Every time someone has called themselves obvious town, they have flipped scum. We townies don't worry about whether we are obvious or not.
2) So need for the dramatics, we all will forget this game in less than 6 months.
3) I don't trust you, so if you are asking me to side with you, that ain't going to happen.

[Guillotina]

Hmmm, without stating the obvious... the first player in this slot didn't even post, then the following three players had one single thing is common.

Sorry I really don't want to read the walls right now. I'll do it Soon. Or I might just sheep a townread bcuz that catch up drained me

No but I will soon. I'll try to get it by tonight but if not then tomorrow.

I'm not gonna read it all but i'll read the beginning and look at votes and stuff.

I just got a question though, if you have not caught up, why are you voting Kyo for then?

Because I don't find Hu Tao scummy, and among the people voting Hu Tao Kyo is the one I have voted the least in past games.

That is the reason lol. I feel like im always voting Celebloki and Gamma.

Ok this implies you have read parts of the game to have those opinions. Why exactly you dont find Hu Tao scummy. What has any past games got to do with anything in this game? That is sort of OGIsh.
Why not just unvote ele and instead switched to Kyo?

Look if you're gonna ask this many questions we're gonna have problems.

I really don't want to get voted out the moment I finally finish reading

They seemed to be too busy to catch up. Now once it is totally normal, twice it is a coincidence... but thrice... thrice is a pattern.

[Guillotina]

What's the VC looking like right now? Last VC was two days ago.

[Guillotina]

@Mod: Will be V/LA Dec 16th through Dec 18th

due to limited connectivity. I will try to check in if I get signal.

[Guillotina]

This slot is fucked from the replacements and I don't want to try hard here, especially since there was really shitty angle shooting about the reasons the previous player in my slot replaced out before I could even get a footing in this game.


I'm a Doctor, I have a modifier that's anti-town to claim and you'll see why when I get killed. That's why I'm hard pushing Hu Tao, and I would've done so even if the Rolecop hadn't checked her.

Lol

Is this a hard claim? as in if you hard claim you cannot retract this claim later.

[Guillotina]

Kyouko

The miller claim?

[Guillotina]

What the fuck is this game?

I counterclaim Roden, im the doctor.

I also may or may not counterclaim Broc

but i now believe Roden is scum

Because:

1) He is a frozen slot.
2) He is claiming my role and there is no way there are two doctors.
3) He claimed full doctor and it does not make sense given the modifier i have.
4) He claimed his target, doctors dont do that.
(Also Dunn is scummy for asking an alleged doctor for their target, could be distancing.)
5) He claimed to have protected a miller claim, what town doctor does that?
6) The pattern i found in his slot.
7) The way gob tried to rolefish me yesterday.

It goes without saying i will not claim whom i protected last night but let's gooooo!

VOTE: Roden

[Guillotina]

It goes without saying i will not claim whom i protected last night but let's gooooo!

Give atleast one reasoning which makes sense instead of "Cuz i said so!"

I will not give reasoning, it's pure common sense.

[Guillotina]

if there is a watcher, I'd appreciate if you consider one in Kyouko, Me and Cele.

I may target one in Cele, Broc or Kyouko, or maybe I will attempt to protect someone who is likely to be a doc dodge target, we'll see.

(I think it is better if scum kills me, you you do you guys)

[Guillotina]

if there is a watcher, I'd appreciate if you consider one in Kyouko, Me and Cele.

I may target one in Cele, Broc or Kyouko, or maybe I will attempt to protect someone who is likely to be a doc dodge target, we'll see.

(I think it is better if scum kills me, but you do you guys)

Correction

[Guillotina]

Man I wish I was a Paranoid Gun Owner in this game, that would be so awesome.

[Guillotina]

The night has ended.

Celebloki has died. He was:

Spoiler:

Welcome to [GAME]! You are a Town Rolecop.

You have the following active ability:

Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn that player's role (but not their alignment).

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Oh well

[Guillotina]

Guillotina, did you protect Celebloki?

No, it was impossible for me to protect Cele again.

Also. Full claim 2-shot Indecisive Doctor, i protected Celebloki on night 1 and Broc last night.

I also received a mod message that someone is town aligned, i will not disclose this info until they decide to claim.

[Guillotina]

I have no more shots.

[Guillotina]

Guillotina, did you protect Celebloki?

I'm thinking he wasn't actually a doctor. Roden was kind of just clear scum. If I wasn't confirmed vanilla I'd have cc too.

I would have FPSed him if i was not a doctor too.

He gave himself away when he readily claimed his alleged target and that such target was a miller, who protects a perky miller?

[Guillotina]

Guillotina, did you protect Celebloki?

No, it was impossible for me to protect Cele again.

Also. Full claim 2-shot Indecisive Doctor, i protected Celebloki on night 1 and Broc last night.

I also received a mod message that someone is town aligned, i will not disclose this info until they decide to claim.

Glad you got the message.

I claim 1-shot Friendly Neighbor.

Yup.

[Guillotina]

Guillotina, did you protect Celebloki?

No, it was impossible for me to protect Cele again.

Also. Full claim 2-shot Indecisive Doctor, i protected Celebloki on night 1 and Broc last night.

I also received a mod message that someone is town aligned, i will not disclose this info until they decide to claim.

Glad you got the message.

I claim 1-shot Friendly Neighbor.

WHY did you claim??? Both of you

That is SUCH a waste when Guillo was TR'd anyway and I woud never let Naerys lim go through

There is no need to withhold this info when i no longer can do anything except voting. Naerys though, she should have waited, i wanted to see whom opportunistically pushed her knowimg she is town. That was indeed a waste.

Im not interested in speed limming anyone, this is a marathon, not a race

[Guillotina]

perky miller

I meant pesky miller lol

[Guillotina]

Hu Tao (E-7): Scummy
Elements (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Dunnstral (E-7): Towny
Broccoli Quest 2 (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Enchant (E-7): Null
ssbm_Kyouko (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma
TimmerRC (E-7): Cant remember
Andresvmb (E-7): Towny
Naerys (E-7): Confirmed Town
davesaz (E-7): Cant remember
Guillotina (E-7): Town
Random Nurse (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma

[Guillotina]

Hu Tao (E-7): Scummy
Elements (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Dunnstral (E-7): Towny
Broccoli Quest 2 (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Enchant (E-7): Null
ssbm_Kyouko (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma
TimmerRC (E-7): Cant remember
Andresvmb (E-7): Towny
Naerys (E-7): Confirmed Town
davesaz (E-7): Cant remember
Guillotina (E-7): Town
Random Nurse (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma

Do you think the way Roden pushed Hu Tao was just scum bussing?

No, i just cant let go of the fact they tried to make me CC on day 1. I will never forget it.

[Guillotina]

Hu Tao (E-7): Scummy
Elements (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Dunnstral (E-7): Towny
Broccoli Quest 2 (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Enchant (E-7): Null
ssbm_Kyouko (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma
TimmerRC (E-7): Cant remember
Andresvmb (E-7): Towny
Naerys (E-7): Confirmed Town
davesaz (E-7): Cant remember
Guillotina (E-7): Town
Random Nurse (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma

Do you think the way Roden pushed Hu Tao was just scum bussing?

No, i just cant let go of the fact they tried to make me CC on day 1. I will never forget it.

I understand that but they did exactly that in a past town game.

I dont care. Maybe you guys let people get away with that instead of policying the slot so they stop, but i dont. If Hu is town and we reach lylo we already lost this game because i cant forget that.

[Guillotina]

Naerys are you sticking to 1-shot as your full claim? I'm curious why you didn't act N1 in that case

Why would she? To whom?

[Guillotina]

Naerys are you sticking to 1-shot as your full claim? I'm curious why you didn't act N1 in that case

Why would she? To whom?

That's for her to answer

Ask me what i would have done if i had that role too.

[Guillotina]

Hu Tao (E-7): Scummy
Elements (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Dunnstral (E-7): Towny
Broccoli Quest 2 (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Enchant (E-7): Null
ssbm_Kyouko (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma
TimmerRC (E-7): Cant remember
Andresvmb (E-7): Towny
Naerys (E-7): Confirmed Town
davesaz (E-7): Cant remember
Guillotina (E-7): Town
Random Nurse (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma

Do you think the way Roden pushed Hu Tao was just scum bussing?

No, i just cant let go of the fact they tried to make me CC on day 1. I will never forget it.

I understand that but they did exactly that in a past town game.

I dont care. Maybe you guys let people get away with that instead of policying the slot so they stop, but i dont. If Hu is town and we reach lylo we already lost this game because i cant forget that.

Okay we will vote you out before then. Good to know

Translation: We will night kill you before then. Good to know.

[Guillotina]

Good news is you can't all 4 be scum - due to the way FN works we should be killing Guillo or Dunn if we think Naerys or Andres are possibly lying, but I think both FNs are legit

Killing scum!me would not confirm scum!Naerys
And same goes for Andres/Dunn.

Why cant i be scum confirming Fn Naerys? Wouldnt killing Naerys confirm we both are lying if she was scum with me? Same goes for Andres/Dunn.

That’d be a too risky play to do as scum specially after losing two, i dont think Andres/Dunn do it, it’s suicidal, specially because it would appear as a double counterclaim.

Occam’s razor all four of us are town or only Dunn is scum. (Or myself from Dunn’s perspective if he is town).

[Guillotina]

Kyouko's point is that if we eliminate you or me and are wrong the fn can be confirmed town

Wrong about what? Define wrong here.

[Guillotina]

If you think Andres is mafia you should vote me instead of Andres because me flipping town would confirm Andres as town, and I would have to be lying for Andres to be mafia

I disagree. Andres could be still town whom Fn Scum!dunn, is not like you have any other choice but to confirm Andres. Same applies to Naerys/Me, if i was scum i would still confirm town!Naerys otherwise she’d know im lying.

[Guillotina]

So i dont understand that logic. The right logic would be killing Naerys or Andres, because if they were scum then they never sent the confirmation to either of us thus we lied to.

[Guillotina]

Hmm I dont think we are ever going to agree of this specific mech talk.

The optimal play today is we yeet outside claims and hope scum resolves us tonight.

[Guillotina]

I need to head out. Dont speed lim anyone, if we could like yeet someone on the 24th, so we dont have to worry about checking the game on Christmas it would be awesome.

[Guillotina]

Im checking in to avoid the prod

[Guillotina]

Anyway I think Enchant might be town. Though not really sure who would be scum here.

Guillo, when you have time any chance you go over associations again and see who can and can't be cleared off of Roden and Gamma?

Uh sure but i need time i cant play today

[Guillotina]

I am back.

Anyway i think plan of mod was like:
1. Haha i put two millers and they fight with claiming D1!!!
2. Haha i also put rolecop who can get innocents from them
3. I also give mafia alien which punishes claiming millers by protecting them from rolecop!!!

So maybe two millers is not that terrible that i predicted, but two friendly neighbours... Also make sense.

Need to understand that they most likely are real. There's little reason to chain self to buddy so they confirm you, if that's case it will be evident pretty fast. So FL claims are almost always town.
Targets... Not necessarily.


I find strange fact that mafia just killed rolecop with living doctor claim. Main point is Strange. Not suspicious. Maybe they didn't believe claim at first place (i had suspicions because insisting on not claiming target is bruh)

And MACHO BODYGUARD DISLOYAL VIG... Wait this is another innocent for rolecop. Didn't really notice it before.


Yeaaaah, it's overtaked in town favor, something not real, and i have no clue what exactly.

Whst is so BRUH about not claiming your targets as doctor? Not claiming them makes it harder for scum to try to predict whom i cant protect the following night and they’d just hit me. It is obvious scum couldnt wait to kill the rolecop so much that they took the risk.

[Guillotina]

I'm still thinking guillotine and naerys scum together. But ummm. I'm not sure if we should do that. I think RN should visit a pr but he won't listen to me

So what’s your story here? That i foolishly bus my alien partner and then we device a masterful plan that involves permanently linking ourselves to each other? After losing two partners back to back?

Yah… good luck with that.

[Guillotina]

I'm just going to post everything I have so far, there are times where I was thinking dave should and shouldn't claim modifiers so you'll see sometimes I talk as if he should hide them and others I consider disloyal versus simple.

Black - Babysitter Hider
Celeb - Rolecop
Kawaii - VT

Hu Tao - VT
Elements - VT
Broccoli Quest 2 - VT
Enchant - VT
TimmerRC - VT

Dunnstral - Miller
ssbm_Kyouko - Miller
Andresvmb - Odd Night Messenger Even Night Friendly Neighbor
Naerys - 1-Shot Friendly Neighbor
Guillotina - 2-Shot Indecisive Doctor
Random Nurse - Macho Combined Bodyguard Disloyal Vigilante
davesaz - Simple/Disloyal (guessing modifier) Neighborizer

vs.

Gamma - Goon
Roden - Complex Alien

Guillo and RN are the most suspicious claims, but RNs claim is more valuable

RN bodyguards dave
dave checks Guillo or a VT

12 alive, 10-2
1 8-2
2 6-2
3 4-2
4 2-2

We get 3 mislims before MELO, 4 lims total
Could be scum are 1-1 or 2-0/0-2 between VTs/PRs.

Assuming there is scum in the VTs, if we lim there, scum would have to kill PRs, because killing a VT would leave 4 VTs and we have 4 mislims.
Let's look at the possibilty there are 2 scum in the PR claims - if we can establish this is not the case, it means there is at least one in the VTs and we can lim in there.
Dunnstral was not neighborized by Dann - Dann is probably either disloyal or simple, so I could see Dunn as just being town here.
Kyouko - I know I'm town but am otherwise unconfirmed by any PR results
Andres - if he's scum it means Dunnstral is too. Dunnstral is probably not scum which means by extension Andres's FN claim checks out and he's town. Andres can send a message to someone toNight to confirm that half of his role as well, and toMorrow night he'll also be able to confirm himself to someone else and that will entirely rule him out of being scum because there are only 2 left
Naerys - same thing as Andres, if she is scum it is with Guillo
Guillo - suspicious that the claim is 2-shot so it now can't be used to help out anymore. With Mafia having an Alien they could stop or kill an ungated Doc
RN - if he's town he can confirm townies every day he doesn't die, and if he's scum he still has to provide us with results in either the PRs or the VTs to narrow things down
Dave - has softed his role is either Simple or Disloyal and will be a prime target for NKs if he is town

It seems unlikely fmpov there are 2 scum amongst the PRs unless it's exactly {Guillo, Naerys} meaning there should be at least 1 in the VTs. Could also be {RN, Dunnstral} - Dunnstral is definitely capable of fabricating RN's claim for him

VTs:

Hu Tao
Elements
BQ2
Enchant - knowing dave's modifiers will shed light on whether this could really be a VT, I don't think there are any goons left. If we kill this and it flips scum PR we will know dave is disloyal but the way he says Enchant is a goon I lean toward simple meaning this is likely just a mislim given town's power level
Timmer

PRs:
Dunnstral - being confirmed/flipped would confirm andres
Kyouko - none
Andres - can send a message to confirm he is a messenger / is confirmed if Dunn is confirmed
Naerys - is confirmed if Guillo is confirmed
Guillo - can be pseudo-confirmed by dave regardless of his modifier, or confirmed if dave is disloyal - disloyal seems too strong for the setup though
RN - can confirm townies every day
Dave - able to confirm other PRs if simple

If we are left with Guillo/Naerys or Andres/Dunn after 3 mislims (6 alive), Dunn/Guillo should contain a scum (Guillo dies first if all 4 live)

All these role make Traffic Analyst very likely for mafia.
An Informed TA could give them the edge if they were informed about things like the existence of dave's role or the existence of FNs (this makes Guillo/Naerys suspect)
Could also see a Simple Alien or similar being able to fuck with the interactions with VTs.
I think Mafia either have 3 PRs, or one of andres/naerys/RN is lying due to "Friendly Neighbor" and "Vigilante" being town-only in normals, which means these are further ways for town to get clears
Probably Mafia have 3 PRs, the flipped Complex Alien, a Traffic Analyst (possibly informed), and something else that can interfere with clears like, idk, a disloyal/simple rolestopper or even a disloyal jailkeeper would look pretty towny to a rolecop, no?


Babysitter Hider is swingy and combined bodyguard disloyal vigilante can be swingy too I guess, can either kill himself or get clears, and given mafia had an alien he wouldn't be able to do anything once his role came out so it's not too imbalanced in town's favor in that respect.

I think Andres should send a message to dave as a way of checking if dave is being rolestopped or aliened, and RN should bodyguard dave. assuming NAR (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ormal_Game), even if andres is NKed, dave would get the message:

Killing doesn't stop the actions of the dead player. (Imagine that all kills happen at the end of the night, and everyone pulls the trigger simultaneously.) This means that kills generally do not affect other actions for the purpose of the Golden Rule.

Scum could risk blocking Andres but in this case dave's hood would go off and as long as he doesn't reveal his target or modifiers, scum will be incentivized to stop dave from getting clears/guilties / frame his targets

How is anyone getting blocked by mafia if their roleblocker (alien) died yesterday?

[Guillotina]

I am back.

Anyway i think plan of mod was like:
1. Haha i put two millers and they fight with claiming D1!!!
2. Haha i also put rolecop who can get innocents from them
3. I also give mafia alien which punishes claiming millers by protecting them from rolecop!!!

So maybe two millers is not that terrible that i predicted, but two friendly neighbours... Also make sense.

Need to understand that they most likely are real. There's little reason to chain self to buddy so they confirm you, if that's case it will be evident pretty fast. So FL claims are almost always town.
Targets... Not necessarily.


I find strange fact that mafia just killed rolecop with living doctor claim. Main point is Strange. Not suspicious. Maybe they didn't believe claim at first place (i had suspicions because insisting on not claiming target is bruh)

And MACHO BODYGUARD DISLOYAL VIG... Wait this is another innocent for rolecop. Didn't really notice it before.


Yeaaaah, it's overtaked in town favor, something not real, and i have no clue what exactly.

Whst is so BRUH about not claiming your targets as doctor? Not claiming them makes it harder for scum to try to predict whom i cant protect the following night and they’d just hit me. It is obvious scum couldnt wait to kill the rolecop so much that they took the risk.

You didn't claim indecisive until after you were out of shots

Uhuh. And?

[Guillotina]

Also i dont like Kyouko saying kill Guillo down the line if they are alive, seems like an easy way for town to lose to me.

[Guillotina]

Alright ive caught up

The PoE (leaving out claims and mafia spew) are:

Enchanter
Timmer
Hu Tao
Dunn

Is this correct?

[Guillotina]

Have to go, I’ll be back later

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Timmer

[Guillotina]

What was the task I was supposed to do again? I forgot

[Guillotina]

Anyway I think Enchant might be town. Though not really sure who would be scum here.

Guillo, when you have time any chance you go over associations again and see who can and can't be cleared off of Roden and Gamma?

Oh this, yah I'm gonna work on this now

[Guillotina]

It's been awhile, remind me why voting millers is the best option?

Slight chance mafia fakeclaims miller
They're guilty if investigated
If telling the truth, miller
If lying, mafia

I’m less inclined to vote a miller specifically because there’s more than one miller claim, it suggests that an investigative exists that can clear millers imo.

Posting this to bookmark it

[Guillotina]

I'm not sure. Dunn's claim felt like a joke with it being the first post of the game. Kyouko's feels more real but I'm not familiar enough with her to tell if it's coming from scum

I feel Duun's claim is genuine, millers often claim miller in their opening posts. Duun's miller claim feels straight up, unlikely that mafia plays this directly. Kyouko feels real/potentially opportunistic, shielding herself behind the initial miller claim if she is mafia

VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko

This feels remarkably convoluted

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Kyouko

VOTE: Kyouko

Why did you 2 vote Kyouko?

My preliminary reads:

Town

Black
Kawaii

Mixed Feelings

Kyouko

Scum

Naerys
Hu
Gamma
Celebloki

What makes you think I’m scum individually? You said I might be scum with Kyouko for a post bug she’s in “mixed feelings”

[Guillotina]

Outline some oh his best noobish posts please.

It’s really just the questions about scumteam size
They’re freaking standardized for Simple normal games atp, if these questions were genuine he should have gotten the memo by now. I know this game is complex but that changes nothing about how the simple guidelines established a baseline that’s set in stone.

Oh yah. This makes Random Nurse and Gamma unaligned. The whole convo of Gamma accusing RN for faking newbie play and RN getting vocally emotional over it.
These two are never partners.

[Guillotina]

No but I will soon. I'll try to get it by tonight but if not then tomorrow.

I'm not gonna read it all but i'll read the beginning and look at votes and stuff.

I just got a question though, if you have not caught up, why are you voting Kyo for then?

Because I don't find Hu Tao scummy, and among the people voting Hu Tao Kyo is the one I have voted the least in past games.

That is the reason lol. I feel like im always voting Celebloki and Gamma.

This is actually commendable I think

Oh yah, this spews Kyouko not partnered with Roden.
It rises partnership equity with Hu Tao.
Also Gamma supporting her partner there too seals the deal.

[Guillotina]

But I don't remember you doing AtE

I’m not AtEing, just stating the facts. Fuck off.

Oh this looks good for me too, plus I'm Roden's CC so...

[Guillotina]

I’ll explain the SRs since those have been hashed out less I think

Black

: feels like she’s trying to skate by this day phase, there’s some ping-ponging I see in her opinions.
Timmer: feels like he’s trying to control his positioning in a scummy way.

Celeb

: I don’t trust how it seems near-everyone suspects him but that doesn’t seem to be amounting to anything

[Guillotina]

How convenient

Does it burn you inside?

[Guillotina]

Like can say that Gamma could have slipped as scum for trying to AtE us with OGI stress while getting pressured which i often see scum do so.
That is based on this game, i want stuff like that.

Can you pls just fucking stop? Maybe what I posted counts as AtE but that wasn’t my intent, so you continuing to harp on about it is extremely annoying

I’ll explain the SRs since those have been hashed out less I think
Black: feels like she’s trying to skate by this day phase, there’s some ping-ponging I see in her opinions.
Timmer: feels like he’s trying to control his positioning in a scummy way.
Celeb: I don’t trust how it seems near-everyone suspects him but that doesn’t seem to be amounting to anything

Honestly im unsatisfied, this is so vague.

Of fucking course
Don’t waste my fucking time with questions you clearly aren’t interested in the answers to

Aleluyaaah

[Guillotina]

But I don't remember you doing AtE

I’m not AtEing, just stating the facts. Fuck off.

Oh this looks good for me too, plus I'm Roden's CC so...

Not really, mafia insult each other more willingly, especially for good cause.

It's mafia insulting town which is rare (and really bad sport)

Ok let's not twist what happened here, Nor Gamma insulted me or I insulted Gamma here. What Gamma did here was emotionally react to my accusations.

[Guillotina]

Fucking hell
I’m a gunsmith, stop this shit

VOTE: Hu Tao
A part of why I didn’t care for the claim was because of my role so now that it’s out there, I feel like we should go back there

Why Hu Tao over Timmer, me, or Cele?

I think Hu Tao is scum doc that tried to “trueclaim” (in quotes because the modifiers may or may not be real) and scum doc is a fake inno to my role
As for why not Celeb, bg is not a fake inno and also feels like it could be town. You and Timmer I don’t see that a vote will do anything.

Oh shit, look at this gem, this looks good for Hu Tao.

[Guillotina]

Yah Gamma tried to get Hu Tao eliminated because they were "CCs".
So Roden slot was pocketing Hu Tao and pushing Kyouko, maybe.

[Guillotina]

Why does this game feel hard even though we have killed two scum?

[Guillotina]

@Broccoli

I believe that just by Gamma alone

Random Nurse
Kyouko
Hu Tao (i hate to admit it)

Are never partnered with Gamma unless she did one hell of a distancing job with any of them.

This is taking myself from the list for obvious reasons.

From Roden, i remember you and Dunn looking unaligned as well.

[Guillotina]

I also noticed that Timmer and Gamma barely had any interactions with each other and Timmer could be her wolf partner in that rule of three.

[Guillotina]

Now im off to bed.

Sayonaraaaaaaa

[Guillotina]

@mod

VLA from today until December 25th

. I will have poor reception where im going now.

[Guillotina]

TBH Hu Tao, this incessant talk about voting me and sussing me doesn't feel like you are trying to sort me at all, it just feels like you don't want me around to push you. Is this a correct assessment?

Yes you caught me

boooooo

May I remind you that when I die, Nurse and Guillo will push you to death?

I am in fact PROTECTING you

I won't

[Guillotina]

I also don't see Timmer coming in to stop this from happening, I think we just need to give dave and RN time to post anything they have on their minds in case

something happens

toNight

I'm totally okay with this, I'm not helping town in any way, I'm so far over my head and it's obvious. I am a VT, so you aren't losing much, hopefully things will somehow become clearer after the night phase!

Thanks for the game, guys, I'm sorry I couldn't keep up.

And just as an apology, it's my own fault, I picked a stupid time to try to play, I'm prepping Christmas for the fam, I'm in the process of setting up a Mycology lab for my region, and honestly the output on this site is just too much for me even without that, so I'll likely not sign up for another. Thanks again!

This just doesn't come from scum. This is a new player feeling genuinely sorry for not helping.

Are you a new player?

[Guillotina]

I also don't see Timmer coming in to stop this from happening, I think we just need to give dave and RN time to post anything they have on their minds in case

something happens

toNight

I'm totally okay with this, I'm not helping town in any way, I'm so far over my head and it's obvious. I am a VT, so you aren't losing much, hopefully things will somehow become clearer after the night phase!

Thanks for the game, guys, I'm sorry I couldn't keep up.

And just as an apology, it's my own fault, I picked a stupid time to try to play, I'm prepping Christmas for the fam, I'm in the process of setting up a Mycology lab for my region, and honestly the output on this site is just too much for me even without that, so I'll likely not sign up for another. Thanks again!

This just doesn't come from scum. This is a new player feeling genuinely sorry for not helping.

Or Timmer is being a master of AtE/Townslip posts which is sort of what they were being accused of in the first place

Use logic. Mechanically and based on associatives, TimmerRC could be mafia. The reason to think they are not mafia is something they could be faking. How do you expect them to be playing here if they are mafia?

Timmer/Dunn not mafia/mafia

[Guillotina]

I believe Timmer fits the archetype of a frozen wolf who lost two teammates back to back and is contributing nothing but LAMIST apologies.

I 100% believe executing Elements is a mistake, just as much as I believed Gamma was scum on day 1.

Also, I have a question. Is this game considered bastard?

[Guillotina]

Also RN is not lying about his role so please stop implying he is

Eh, it just feels like kinda overpowered role so i am having a hard time to believe that

Nurse always has OP roles as town.

Also it's not that OP? It's a 1-guity cop except you can't be sure the clears are real clears (roleblock) and scum can force a no-result at any time after he claims unless there's a doctor that can save him (there isn't).

Actually it's pretty weak.

it's actually a zero guilty cop unless he can find a way to crumb his night action without announcing it - dave can't even neighborize him to allow the targets to be privately mentioned in the hood, because Dave is simple. If anything, Guillo having a protective role at all is what *doesn't fit* with dave and RN's claims - they are somewhat complicated roles that are balanced with each other to not give the town more guilty-power. Guillo's role would allow RN to get a guilty.

This post is scummy, maybe RN should check you.

[Guillotina]

Maybe Cele died because he wanted to check in the millers claims.

[Guillotina]

I don't like how that post is written in a way to seed doubt on my role claim, which could lead to a misyeet later. Kyouko, I'm the sleeping lion, come try me.

[Guillotina]

Also I hope every had a great Christmas

[Guillotina]

Also RN is not lying about his role so please stop implying he is

Eh, it just feels like kinda overpowered role so i am having a hard time to believe that

Nurse always has OP roles as town.

Also it's not that OP? It's a 1-guity cop except you can't be sure the clears are real clears (roleblock) and scum can force a no-result at any time after he claims unless there's a doctor that can save him (there isn't).

Actually it's pretty weak.

it's actually a zero guilty cop unless he can find a way to crumb his night action without announcing it - dave can't even neighborize him to allow the targets to be privately mentioned in the hood, because Dave is simple. If anything, Guillo having a protective role at all is what *doesn't fit* with dave and RN's claims - they are somewhat complicated roles that are balanced with each other to not give the town more guilty-power. Guillo's role would allow RN to get a guilty.

This post is scummy, maybe RN should check you.

Maybe he should, I'm not cleared. I'm not opposed to it if Elements flips town. If scum though I think checking you is decent here, though I'd prefer he checks a VT claim, like Enchant/BQ2 in that scenario

Why are you associating me with Elements?

[Guillotina]

OK so I might target Naerys instead.

What for? She confirmed herself to me, she is town.

[Guillotina]

RN if you are not gonna target Dave, target one of the miller claims please.

[Guillotina]

RN if you are not gonna target Dave, target one of the miller claims please.

I think trying to change the plan at the last second causes confusion and is scummy.

Yah? RN said he was gonna target Naerys and I said it is useless as she confirmed herself to me, I actually suggested he stayed on course by targeting Dave and if he was not gonna do it then to target the millers aka you or Kyouko. So?

[Guillotina]

And I will keep suggesting optimal plays whether anyone likes it or not, thank you very much.

[Guillotina]

VOTE: TimmerRC

[Guillotina]

@Mod VLA until January 2nd of 2024

Sorry but this is the busiest time for me.

[Guillotina]

RN if you are not gonna target Dave, target one of the miller claims please.

I think trying to change the plan at the last second causes confusion and is scummy.

Yah? RN said he was gonna target Naerys and I said it is useless as she confirmed herself to me, I actually suggested he stayed on course by targeting Dave and if he was not gonna do it then to target the millers aka you or Kyouko. So?

I said I MIGHT, not that I WAS.

I did mention possibly targeting Naerys to instill some doubt into Scum.

I did target Hu Tao.

I'm not 100% convinced because there could have been interference by a Scum PR.

Ok then. So as long as we don't see a scum flip that reveals a role that could potentially influence your result, we must treat it as a clear.

[Guillotina]

If anything kill makes sense.

How so? I dont see much logic. I expected Nurse/dave to be NKed

Because we operate on not full knowledge, and mafia also knows it.


While we assume that RN are town (i still believe so), it's not confirmed, and Dave may or may not be useless or town or both of these really. It's less confirmed that FN claims, which had more strong conftown standing, due uh, being paired.

If anything, mafia can fearmonger us with second roleblockers even if RN and Dave town. We never confirm Hu Tao as town until mafia all dies or we flip second roleblocker somehow (which may not even exist). Hood fails if Dave roleblocked as well, giving false result. That's point.


Basically: I also expected RN to die, but kill is totally not outrageously nonsense, that's sounds pretty valid way of play for mafia. FN may be more dangerous for them.

Let's just assume Hu Tao town for time being.

I don't read into night kills because WIFOM exists but I agree, mechanically speaking, Naerys and Andres are the 100% cleared town here.

[Guillotina]

Eventually they'll slip up, get too scared, post too little or too much, or some other thing. Perhaps I should start probing and getting more active. I've had a LOT of shit go down in real life that's made it hell trying to stay active: the horrors persist, but so do I.

Maybe I should start looking at who's refraining from engaging, and start ripping shit up.

I have been inactive because work during the holidays in my opportunity to make money over any other season, I don't know who else is in the same position but I will always prioritize real life and my income over a hobby, so I think it is best to not angleshoot activity during holidays cause that is a recipe for losing a game.

[Guillotina]

If Andres didn't send mail because forgot, i choke from laugh.

He died. Unless the night order of operations is different here, communications happen after kills everywhere I play.

[Guillotina]

I do think mafia could have a backup alien. Maybe neither of the power roles threaten mafia because they can roleblock Random Nurse and a mafia goon did not lie about being a PR for Davesaz' role.

Do you scumread Hu Tao though?

I will always suspect the role claim shenanigans they pulled this game

I'm pretty much confirmed town. Please stop with this, it adds nothing. What do you think of the other slots? Anyone you see as a pair?

Eeeeeh you are not

100% confirmed

town but you are likely town anyway given how Gamma tried to spin the story that you were her counterclaim. I still hate you for faking my role, what the hell were you thinking, what if a newbie was the doctor and they CCed you?

[Guillotina]

I do think mafia could have a backup alien. Maybe neither of the power roles threaten mafia because they can roleblock Random Nurse and a mafia goon did not lie about being a PR for Davesaz' role.

Do you scumread Hu Tao though?

I will always suspect the role claim shenanigans they pulled this game

I'm pretty much confirmed town. Please stop with this, it adds nothing. What do you think of the other slots? Anyone you see as a pair?

Gut does not like this response.

This guy is tunneled

[Guillotina]

I do think mafia could have a backup alien. Maybe neither of the power roles threaten mafia because they can roleblock Random Nurse and a mafia goon did not lie about being a PR for Davesaz' role.

Do you scumread Hu Tao though?

I will always suspect the role claim shenanigans they pulled this game

I'm pretty much confirmed town. Please stop with this, it adds nothing. What do you think of the other slots? Anyone you see as a pair?

Gut does not like this response.

Too bad for you, Hu Tao is my Savior target for today so we're not voting her.

Maybe RN is scum. Because that makes 0 sense.

Nope. You should stop scumreading anyone who scumreads you.

It's not that. It just doesn't make sense for town to think that way.

Why would scum fake that they'll check you and come here and confirm they actually did instead of saying that it failed or something?

[Guillotina]

I will be busy due partying (sort of). Not VLA i will be here, but kinda... Yeah.


My primal question to Guillotine is why bother to CC Roden, who was obviously evil, but not CC Hu Tao? It probably resolved somewhere, but it requires me to look answers up in all these pages.

Cause I'm a mafia vet not a newbie, if Hu Tao was scum fake claiming doc, that is precisely what a scum near an elimination would try to do, to claim a protection role to make them out, kill them at night and leave town without protection.
Hence why I didn't and proceeded to promote their elimination until Gamma came along with their AtE.

[Guillotina]

Guillotine and naerys

This actually gave me an idea.
@RandomNurse perhaps you could shoot at Guillo, to see if he is town or not. This plus limming Timmer feels like good course of action.

This is totally useless, his ability should be used to clear the PoE. I am not PoE, I'm night kill material.

[Guillotina]

RN if you are not gonna target Dave, target one of the miller claims please.

I think trying to change the plan at the last second causes confusion and is scummy.

Yah? RN said he was gonna target Naerys and I said it is useless as she confirmed herself to me, I actually suggested he stayed on course by targeting Dave and if he was not gonna do it then to target the millers aka you or Kyouko. So?

I said I MIGHT, not that I WAS.

I did mention possibly targeting Naerys to instill some doubt into Scum.

I did target Hu Tao.

I'm not 100% convinced because there could have been interference by a Scum PR.

Ok then. So as long as we don't see a scum flip that reveals a role that could potentially influence your result, we must treat it as a clear.

VOTE: Guillotina

What? You got a result from your own very role and instead you wanna make judgements based on paranoia and mechanic speculation, no, we are not gonna do that.

Kill timmer please.

[Guillotina]

And I'm caught up. I'm not changing my vote.

[Guillotina]

Eventually they'll slip up, get too scared, post too little or too much, or some other thing. Perhaps I should start probing and getting more active. I've had a LOT of shit go down in real life that's made it hell trying to stay active: the horrors persist, but so do I.

Maybe I should start looking at who's refraining from engaging, and start ripping shit up.

I have been inactive because work during the holidays in my opportunity to make money over any other season, I don't know who else is in the same position but I will always prioritize real life and my income over a hobby, so I think it is best to not angleshoot activity during holidays cause that is a recipe for losing a game.

Huh?

Heh, I must say this is a rather interesting (defensive) response.

I'm not talking about the holidays. I'm talking about in general eventually Scum will slip up, etc, regardless of holidays.

If you want to continue then by all means proceed to lower your foot into the woodchipper.

I'm not gonna engage in your headless conversation here, I could already see where were you heading for, going after the people that were not posting, let's not play dumb here, so I said my piece on the matter cause that line of thought in unhealthy for the game.

[Guillotina]

I think I'll target Guillotina tonight if I can't have their head today.

You will not have my head today, and you will waste your action but it is your action to waste, we will however not waste an elimination by voting me out here because i am sooooo spewed town here that whoever is scum, the poor wolfies must be struggling to come out of the shithole they are in and executing me would be like the perfect best case scenerio for them today, so instead, we will not do that today and we will not entertain stupid tunnels from irrationally thinking people either. Period.

[Guillotina]

I will be busy due partying (sort of). Not VLA i will be here, but kinda... Yeah.


My primal question to Guillotine is why bother to CC Roden, who was obviously evil, but not CC Hu Tao? It probably resolved somewhere, but it requires me to look answers up in all these pages.

Cause I'm a mafia vet not a newbie, if Hu Tao was scum fake claiming doc, that is precisely what a scum near an elimination would try to do, to claim a protection role to make them out, kill them at night and leave town without protection.
Hence why I didn't and proceeded to promote their elimination until Gamma came along with their AtE.

And Roden were different because?

I am a two shot doctor and i did a bit of a gamble, I CCed them and then hoped scum would try to avoid a watcher and kill someone else and hopefully I would protect that target.

[Guillotina]

Eventually they'll slip up, get too scared, post too little or too much, or some other thing. Perhaps I should start probing and getting more active. I've had a LOT of shit go down in real life that's made it hell trying to stay active: the horrors persist, but so do I.

Maybe I should start looking at who's refraining from engaging, and start ripping shit up.

I have been inactive because work during the holidays in my opportunity to make money over any other season, I don't know who else is in the same position but I will always prioritize real life and my income over a hobby, so I think it is best to not angleshoot activity during holidays cause that is a recipe for losing a game.

Huh?

Heh, I must say this is a rather interesting (defensive) response.

I'm not talking about the holidays. I'm talking about in general eventually Scum will slip up, etc, regardless of holidays.

If you want to continue then by all means proceed to lower your foot into the woodchipper.

I'm not gonna engage in your headless conversation here, I could already see where were you heading for, going after the people that were not posting, let's not play dumb here, so I said my piece on the matter cause that line of thought in unhealthy for the game.

Wow, you're just over-reacting all over the place today.

I'm not over-reacting, i don't know what fantasies you are making in your head but ive played with people like you before lol.

I'm defending my stance on this game and how we must proceed, I will not make this game harder just because you are paranoid, i don't care about your paranoia, we eliminate Timmer today cause he is likely scum. Period.

[Guillotina]

What watcher

This is a normal game, there may or may not be one.

[Guillotina]

It contradicts your previous point where you want to get protect.

You also assume that you yourself won't be targeted this time.

Huh? I was the doctor, I'm the protect lol.

And yes, I gambled it, I could have been night killed and i was fine with that, but I was not.

[Guillotina]

You guys are willaging but sure go ahead and flip me before say Timmer, Enchant or even the Millers.

But before that

1) @Kuyouko you that are very prone to looking at old games to hunt for scum, how come you are not looking at this game's to realize that I have no scum motivation for how I handled Hu Tao when they faked doctor and how I proceeded to handle Hu Tao until I found that bit where Gamma pushed Hu Tao as CC.
How come you don't see that that is how a doctor must handle someone faking their claim.

Why does it bother you that I'm a 2-shot? Why are those grounds to consider me for an elimination? Because I'm useless to you now? or is it because you wanna exploit some irrationally paranoid people into elimnating me? or if you are town, how come you cant read between the lines?

2) How come you are not going back to read my interactions with both Gamma and the Roden slot? One which emotionally reacted to me when they ATEd, do you think that is what scum would decide to fake? is that fakeable?

Have you made yourselves these questions.

Are your basis for eliminating other than meta-ing the host or the setup or just dumb paranoia?

[Guillotina]

1) @Kuyouko you that are very prone to looking at old games to hunt for scum, how come you are not looking at this game's to realize that I have no scum motivation for how I handled Hu Tao when they faked doctor and how I proceeded to handle Hu Tao until I found that bit where Gamma pushed Hu Tao as CC.
How come you don't see that that is how a doctor must handle someone faking their claim.

Why does it bother you that I'm a 2-shot? Why are those grounds to consider me for an elimination? Because I'm useless to you now? or is it because you wanna exploit some irrationally paranoid people into elimnating me? or if you are town, how come you cant read between the lines?

2648, 2657

Some of your arguments don't logically follow from your position as I've pointed out in the above posts.

You claim you were not claiming your target because you were indecisive, yet you had only cc'd with "doctor", you had never mentioned being indecisive. As I pointed out, mafia would not have assumed you could not target the same person again, even if you had claimed your target.

Further, with you being a claimed doctor, mafia went ahead and killed Celebloki anyway. This happened right after the mafia alien was eliminated. This to me suggests that either you are lying about your role, or mafia has another way to get around your role (because they didn't know the specifics of your role at this time, as I've pointed out.) Backup alien would work; if you're town they could use alien on you and kill Celeboki, and now use alien on Random Nurse.

Is not fully claiming all the details of my role scum indicative?

I'm not getting what you are accusing me of? I partially claimed to CC yes, so?

[Guillotina]

Dunnstral hanging out in the periphery just within eyesight is annoying me.

You've done much worse this game lad. Posted nothing of value for ~6 days and then asked what the rush was while the game was stalled.

As Town I don't HAVE to be active

. Me feeling you're in the periphery just within eyesight is my opinion, and my activity level has no bearing giving that opinion. Also we had well over a week left so we COULD have made use of that time instead of rushing with that mis-lim.

If you're Scum be VERY careful how you rerspond to me.

So why were you trying to pursue the angle earlier that scum could be in the inactives and that they may slip up later?
This to me shows me that you yourself don't believe that inactive is alignment indicative but you hinted at pressuring there for those exact reasons, that's called agenda.

[Guillotina]

Vote Count 2.6

Roden

(E-0): Broccoli Quest 2, Dunnstral, ssbm_Kyouko, davesaz, Hu Tao, Guillotina, Elements, Naerys,

Hu Tao

(E-6): Random Nurse, Roden,

Elements

(E-6): Keyleth, Andresvmb,

Naerys,

Dunnstral

(E-8):

Broccoli Quest 2

(E-8):

Keyleth

(E-8):

ssbm_Kyouko

(E-8):

Celebloki

(E-8):

TimmerRC

(E-8):

Andresvmb

(E-8):

Naerys

(E-8):

davesaz

(E-8):

Guillotina

(E-8):

Random Nurse

(E-8):

Not Voting

: TimmerRC, Celebloki,

With 14 alive it takes 8 to eject a player from the Game.

Deadline is (expired on 2023-12-17 14:00:00).

Mod Notes: None!

What the fuck is this game?

I counterclaim Roden, im the doctor.

I also may or may not counterclaim Broc

but i now believe Roden is scum

Because:

1) He is a frozen slot.
2) He is claiming my role and there is no way there are two doctors.
3) He claimed full doctor and it does not make sense given the modifier i have.
4) He claimed his target, doctors dont do that.
(Also Dunn is scummy for asking an alleged doctor for their target, could be distancing.)
5) He claimed to have protected a miller claim, what town doctor does that?
6) The pattern i found in his slot.
7) The way gob tried to rolefish me yesterday.

It goes without saying i will not claim whom i protected last night but let's gooooo!

VOTE: Roden

If you want to do VCA this is probably where to look, and if you believe Guillo can be mafia you want to look at the second post and decide if they are gambitting mafia who cc'd their own team member

For me to be mafia here with Roden, I would have to be a better role than Roden's. Alien has the capacity of roleblocking and protecting, why I as mafia CC them instead of letting them get away with it? Hu Tao got away with claiming doctor and retracting it later, Roden could have also accomplish it.

When Roden claimed doctor, like straight up doctor, after what Hu Tao pulled out, i figured that Roden's attempt was to hope he'd be CCed and two, that if he was not CCed, that he'd buy time to avoid an execution like Hu Tao did, I was not gonna allow that.

[Guillotina]

Your thought process doesn't seem to fully line up. What I am accusing you of is being confused because you are fake claiming a role.

You first say:

Whst is so BRUH about not claiming your targets as doctor? Not claiming them makes it harder for scum to try to predict whom i cant protect the following night and they’d just hit me. It is obvious scum couldnt wait to kill the rolecop so much that they took the risk.

And in response I post:

You didn't claim indecisive until after you were out of shots

Do you see the problem here? With your claim of 'Doctor' there is no reason for mafia to assume that you cannot target the same player twice in a row. Your claim that mafia 'took the risk' doesn't make sense when considering that, and your own assumptions here don't make sense either.

Now I'm more confused.

[Guillotina]

Of course there is no way for me to know why they didn't kill me instead of Cele, i can only try to guess of why they would but I don't know for certain.

Yes, I'm indecisive, yes scum couldn't possibly know that unless they had a rolecop themselves and checked me, or they didn't kill me because they thought Cele was more important, or for the sake of WIFOM in hopes town themselves would kill me out of paranoia.

This is all speculation, again, i can't know, what I'm confused about is why does this merit an accusation in the first place? and how that is alignment indicative?

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Kyouko

I don't believe this person believe in their push on me.

[Guillotina]

I don't know what is more outrageous?

Random Nurse tunnel on his own confirmed check (Hu Tao)

or

Hu Tao believing that Naerys and I are scum together.

OR here is the big one.

Hu Tao accusing Random Nurse for not making sense while not making sense themselves.

If that kind of hypocrisy, that kind of lack of care for how that inconsistency makes them look is not town indicative, i don't know what is, that is why I can't let you push Hu Tao, RN.