Mini Normal 2325 | Game Over

[ketchup777]

good morning everyone!
VOTE: Jacob24

[ketchup777]

drew is town and one of bugspray/psyche is scum, leaning bugspray

mafia is such an easy game

VOTE: bugspray

I have the same thoughts as this, actually. Although I'm leaning more towards psyche being scum, at the moment.

I mostly agree with Luca on this. From the few games I looked at before this, the mafia tend to just lurk in the shadows at the start while town do a good job of killing themselves off. So I was inclined to be less suspicious of whoever responded first (drew/bugspray/psyche). While bugspray could well be bluffing with the question I just thought it was more likely they were town. However, I think it's either psyche or none of them, and that at least two of the mafia are currently lurking in the shadows. I chose a random lurker (jacob) to start off, who seemed perhaps to be a bit annoyed that I had voted him? Maybe because he's mafia? who knows

[ketchup777]

That's an interesting interpretation - that Jacob was a bit annoyed that you had voted him. I can kind of see where you're coming from, although he seemed more annoyed at Outworld and myself for the early reads.

Why do you think psyche is more likely to be scum than drew, for example?

It's only very slight, but I think the town would be more confident to immediately leap in with a sentence, not fearing it being scrutinized. Whereas psyche merely voted (which in essence is what I did, so I'm not too hung up on it). At the moment as I said I'll be focusing my efforts on the quiet starters.

[ketchup777]

To be honest with the bulk of psyche replies later on I don't really have much to go on against psyche at the moment

[ketchup777]

ketchup are you an alt?

No, I just did like a week of research

[ketchup777]

@Project
@ketchup

Can ya'll get some avatars? All the cool kids are doing it

ok am I a cool kid now ?

[ketchup777]

Luca might be town. He's already scumread 3 people in 3 pages. I think scum probably want to avoid that much conflict early on

here's a half-serious response to your post: I named the whole scumteam in one post, am I town?

shame you got me wrong good effort tho

[ketchup777]

Yes! I love it! Thank you

Alice in borderland is one of my favourite shows
On a more relevant note, the only person yet to post is ssbm_Kyouko.

[ketchup777]

On a more relevant note, the only person yet to post is ssbm_Kyouko.

Do you think this says anything about her alignment?

I thought more likely to be mafia, although I just saw she hasn't actually confirmed her role yet so I guess there's nothing to read into it

[ketchup777]

Sure you can have town points for that

I don't really think not posting right after the game starts is alignment indicative. There's a good chance kyouko just hasn't been on the site yet today

sure (:
this is my first game so i probs have some bad misconceptions forming in my mind

[ketchup777]

strong newbscum vibes from this post. Describing someone as a "random lurker" on the 37th post of the game, when a good chunk of players may not have even had the chance to participate yet, is quite strange, and the reads here feel fake, like ketchup is simply trying to emulate the mafia players they were witnessing in games he had read. Describing Jacob as "annoyed" with their vote also seems off-base with Jacob's actual posts before this one.

Ok I might have been a bit fast and loose with my terminology I apologise. I meant, a randomly (well with psychic feel ofc ofc) selected person from anyone who hadn't posted yet, knowing that many of them are completely innocent. The post I was targeting was the quote below...

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

...two things stand out to me.
One, the use of 'let's' rather than formulating it as a question like 'can we slow down a bit and think about it?' seems a bit controlling, like mafia trying to redirect the flow of the game? (again I reiterate these are just speculations).
Two, the sentence 'I'm here by the way' being thrown on to the end as like a throwaway kinda feels like a mafia member going through the mental checklist of things they need to do (type a message in the thread: check!), especially after I explicitly stated that I'd be on the lookout for non-posters.
Plus just the overall feel of the first sentence gives off annoyed vibes, mindless being quite a negative word.

thanks for putting some guilt on me tho I don't wanna be killed on night 1 xxx

[ketchup777]

It was intended to be somewhat controlling, since I wanted to try and get things under control. I am a very logic-based person so I wanted to really flesh out the arguments and such.

I think the questions you're asking are fine, but you're digging in a bit much. For right now, I'm with Luca in voting for bugspray but I may acknowledge some other notions as to the scum identity.

sure! sorry if it seemed like I was tunneling on you. I'll lay off for a bit. Not going to jump on the bugswagon because I'm unconvinced bugs is mafia. let's not yeet our good friends now guys.

UNVOTE:

[ketchup777]

oop am i supposed to put a player name after the unvote?
UNVOTE: Jacob24

[ketchup777]

ok perfect thanks both!

[ketchup777]

"trying to redirect the flow of the game" to what end? I need you to answer that because I can only think of one scenario that would be the case, and in that scenario it would mean your stated townlean on bugspray makes no sense.

I can think of many scenarios where that would be the case. Let's say that Jacob and Hu Tao are mafia (oooh spooky). Jacob is miffed that me and iavh have voted for him and Hu Tao. Not a good start for the mafia who want to hide in the darkness! Let's put ourselves in their shoes. Which townie has already made a bit of a fool of themselves and could be an easy target? ...Bugspray! Oh perfect, looks like some townies are already attacking poor Bugspray. What if I (Jacob) were to ask people to apply more detailed reasoning before voting Bugs? I(Jacob) might seem Townie AND get people to think of 'actual' reasons to vote Bugspray, so through this double whammy actually be a secret conductor to a Bugspray bandwagon. Now just sit back and relax!
I don't see how what I said contradicts with me thinking Bugs is townie.

"thanks for putting some guilt on me tho I don't wanna be killed on night 1 xxx" this feels incredibly fake

Let's go guys, operation Look Guilty is working! I don't know if I've pulled a mafia or a townie here but hopefully they don't kill me. I'm already too invested, I want to make it to at least day 2
(It was a sarcastic tone which maybe is misunderstood with fakeness, anyway I genuinely really don't want to die first night (or first vote lol))

sorry for delay, i accidentally deleted this whole post right before posting and had to retype it all

[ketchup777]

but not as strange as the maybe scum pt slip

still seeking explanation for this

if you mean what I think you mean, post #84 (someone please tell me how to hyperlink a post) was a perfect explanation, no?

[ketchup777]

UNVOTE:

Feel like Ketchup is doing too much.

It’s more of a vibe at this stage, but their reads so far have seemed too serious and seem to place too much weight on insignificant things.

Conscious this is just because he’s new. Maybe he just wants to impress / put in a good performance and I’m reading that as excessive.

But, also feel his defence / last few responses to OWER all feel a bit over the top and performative. Don’t feel like the sarcasm comes off very well either.

ok noted thx. tho as I'm a townie (that's what they all say!) you're not getting off in my good books so far for focussing your first efforts on me. but sure

Hu Tao and Jacob may have had votes but they were far from the points of discussion at that time. All eyes were on bugspray. The lines of thinking and discussion at that time would've continued much the same as they did without Jacob's presence. The theory you've described here is patchwork at best.

Sure, you raise a decent counter point. I was just slightly confused by what you had said (your mind went off track you said just now, sure whatevs). I would like to clarify I by no means fully believe in this 'theory', just giving an example.

The additional shade thrown at Hu Tao here also ruffles me, what's your read there?

Sorry, I think my retyped version was not as clear on the fact that Hu tao was a randomly chosen example from the people who already had vote(s) at the point when Jacob asked everyone to calm down, if he was annoyed that we'd accidentally voted him and one of his mafia teammates. I don't have much to say on Hu Tao at this point in time.

I am liking the look of Luca, Black, DeltaWave and Bugs at the moment.

take 2, can someone tell me how to hyperlink a post (with the number underlined and clickable) like Black and people have already done? thanks so much
I'm english, so is bedtime. don't all go voting me overnight now please. goodnight!

[ketchup777]

voting people for razor thin reasons on page 1 is protown actually

Last game you called me out as scum for some razor thin reasons I had on D1

And were you scum?

[ketchup777]

Luca raises some good anti-Bugs points in 145 which have begun to persuade me that Bugs is maybe dodgier than I first thought. Nowhere close to voting them tho. Let’s try something new.

Vote: ProjEctRy

You’ve had 3 meaningless posts and one post accusing a townie (me ). Not looking so good for you there my friend.

Happy belated birthday Luca!

[ketchup777]

Luca raises some good anti-Bugs points in 145 which have begun to persuade me that Bugs is maybe dodgier than I first thought. Nowhere close to voting them tho. Let’s try something new.

Vote: ProjEctRy

You’ve had 3 meaningless posts and one post accusing a townie (me ). Not looking so good for you there my friend.

Happy belated birthday Luca!

oops
VOTE: ProjectRy

[ketchup777]

*Makes no sense at this stage, that should have read.

For some reason, Bugs asking Ketchup if they were an alt pinged me as a potential partner interaction at that point in time as well.

I just wanted to say that if Ketchup is indeed scum, then you're doing a terrific job! Just don't defend your buddy so obviously next time

That’s fair, it does seem a bit sus. I hope if i were mafia I wouldn’t be so dumb as to spend all my time defending one of my partners tho!

As for your black/me/bugs predict, again I doubt I would mention both my partners in the top 4 people I think are safest. But who knows I’ve never been mafia before and I still haven’t now!

I’ll reply to other stuff later, have school

[ketchup777]

Luca raises some good anti-Bugs points in 145 which have begun to persuade me that Bugs is maybe dodgier than I first thought. Nowhere close to voting them tho. Let’s try something new.

Thanks!

Could I ask you to elaborate more on your thoughts regarding Bugs?

Sure. Basically everything you’ve recently said has led me further and further from my original guess that Bugs was town. I thought at first that if bugs were mafia, they wouldn’t be asking random questions (like the multitasking one and asking if I was an alt) because it’s just drawing unnecessary attention to themselves. It’s not like asking questions demonstrates that your town, so I didn’t think a mafia would be asking these kind of questions. But you raise so many good points that you’re making me doubt my initial read; maybe Bugs is nervous, or is double bluffing me. Aware that there are liars among us though, I don’t want to let myself get fully swayed by you (Luca) yet on Bugs, especially as my vote at this point would be the fifth vote on Bugs which is dangerously close to voting them off. All it takes them is one mafia and one over enthusiastic townie to vote Bugs off and that seals it (for better or for worse, I can’t tell at this point). I haven’t felt anything good come out of Project yet, maybe if they had accused someone else but I get to be in the fortunate position of distrusting anyone who votes me because they’re wrong (:
So I’ll keep my vote on Project for now until something better comes up. I honestly doubt I’ll be successful in starting a wagon, because Bugs is under way more fire atm it seems, but I’d rather go with my gut than go with the herd.

[ketchup777]

If I had to stick my neck out right now, I'd say the scumteam is Bugs/Black/ketchup. That is probably quite controversial, but it makes sense to me right now.

Obviously we're still waiting for content from a few, but I sometimes like to make these early predictions just in case I hit the jackpot.

Actually coming back to this now I’ve had more time to read the last couple pages again, didn’t you just say in 155 that you thought I was town? What swayed your mind?

[ketchup777]

Sorry, you explained that in 180 .

[ketchup777]

VOTE: Ketchup777

I can elaborate but just look at the ISO and tell me I'm wrong.

You're wrong

NO

Post 123 - "I am liking the look of Luca, Black, DeltaWave and Bugs at the moment." (All I had done was share a kelly osbourne meme)

Post 173 - "You’ve had 3 meaningless posts and one post accusing a townie" (about Project)

I might be dumb, but it seemed like a bold thing to say if you were a mafia. You already saw how much attention in generated in a short time. Similarly to bugs, I just thought the mafia wouldn’t have the balls to do that.

[ketchup777]

I can't read iavh at all lol

[ketchup777]

I can't read iavh at all lol

be like Clouds then

Who is clouds

[ketchup777]

Maybe bug is just scum

Maybe. How often do scum ask to be replaced out would you say?

[ketchup777]

Maybe bug is just scum

Maybe. How often do scum ask to be replaced out would you say?

I don't see it very often and I have a natural tendency to townread replace outs based on the fact that I would never replace out as scum unless something IRL causes me to. This situation feels different though considering Luca is extremely confident he caught scum!bug. I think it makes sense for him to leave out of frustration. The fact that he kept saying he hadn't read any posts feels really weird, like he wanted us to think he didn't even know Luca was pushing him or something

Yeah. I can also see the other perspective though, that Town Bug is annoyed Luca has already essentially ensured death for him and doesn't want to spend a week defending himself for no reason

[ketchup777]

black is one suspect i have in mind

her signature says she is the queen

but her title says she is a princess

inconsistent much?

I cackled (:

[ketchup777]

Luca will vote surely.

Would like to see ketchup get on board

Ketchup will not be getting on board at this present time

[ketchup777]

Luca will vote surely.

Would like to see ketchup get on board

Ketchup will not be getting on board at this present time

Por Que?

A combination of the replacement suggesting a town slot (I think) and the fact that I'm still too conflicted over exbugs' posts to banish them yet

[ketchup777]

Maybe I'm delaying the inevitable, but if Dann flips town then at least I know I wasn't part of it.

[ketchup777]

ketchup have you played much mafia before elsewhere

Nope! Never played before. I read a few games from a subforum on mkwpp.com (they're pretty short) and fragments of a couple games on here, as well as a couple basic strategies on the wiki, a bunch of vocabulary and a gazillion different roles most of which aren't even allowed for normal but I was having a bit too much fun. (:

[ketchup777]

ketchup have you played much mafia before elsewhere

Nope! Never played before. I read a few games from a subforum on mkwpp.com (they're pretty short) and fragments of a couple games on here, as well as a couple basic strategies on the wiki, a bunch of vocabulary and a gazillion different roles most of which aren't even allowed for normal but I was having a bit too much fun. (:

Sorry here's a better link if you were curious https://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yab ... oard=mafia

[ketchup777]

would you vote drew?

i don't hate the projectry vote but drew is noticeably more present here and thus i think more pressure there would be useful at the moment

Sure. Drew's somewhere on my naughty list, haven't got many town vibes beyond leaping in to the second post.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[ketchup777]

Ketchup. If not Dann, who are you reading?

If you like I can give my current reads on every player

[ketchup777]

omgg ketchup is so adorable

thanks (:

it's funny the different niche forums that get people into mafia

i was introduced via the age of empires II age of kings forums

cool! never played

[ketchup777]

I’d agree with OWER on the Ketchup post at 323.

It’s the feel of I want everyone to remember this. I’m not part of this etc. It reads fake. Its laying groundwork for a future defence.

I don’t think town need to make such comment and experienced scum wouldn’t make the comment so it seems like a newbie-scum comment.

Looking back at it now I completely agree it looks super scummy ahaha. What I meant (to myself, no wonder noone could decipher this) is that I want my first ever voteout to be right! wouldn't be so cool if I immediately ganged up on a townie.

[ketchup777]

Ketchup. If not Dann, who are you reading?

If you like I can give my current reads on every player

This offer stands for 20 minutes before I go to sleep

[ketchup777]

Ketchup. If not Dann, who are you reading?

If you like I can give my current reads on every player

I would like this yes

Hu Tao: seems friendly and said at some point I'm the only player they're confident is town, so they must be doing something right! But could be a ploy to gain my trust, if it is one it's working tho! However my main point against is the vote on Bugs felt very jump-on-the-wagony, not giving reasons for it until pressed. A little sus perhaps.
Gypyx nee. ssbm_Kyouko: no reads.
ProjEctRy: seems suspicious, has done nothing besides a small bit of filler and go for me.
Dannflor nee. bugspray: due to bugs allowing replacement and my initial gut I'm like 66% for town, but Luca is so damn confident so there's a chance he's mafia. I am kind of scared by how professional Dannflor already seems, but don't want to vote out a townie just because they seem smart. Indeed having a smart person is good for voting out the mafia you'd think (:
Luca Blight: Very confident and accusing a lot of people. I agree with the general sentiment that this seems to be pretty townie. If awesome mafia bluff, hopefully Luca slips up later on.
Jacob24: I've backtracked a little bit from my initial guess turned mafia read, and now am in more neutral territory slightly leaning towards town. Anyone who said they think I'm town at some point will get some credit, and Jacob's one of those.
iamveryhappy: nightmare. posts are funny but I am struggling to read into them. One of the games I looked over there was a player like this who I also couldn't fathom out when I was making my guesses going along.
ketchup777: yo this guy's the most townie townie I ever have seen. he needs to start thinking before he clicks submit so people stop thinking he's mafia tho
Psyche: bro said I'm adorable +1000000 jkjk haven't seen much town-looking stuff from Psyche yet. Mostly filler.
DeltaWave: A bold meme opening where the punchline was about killing people was bound to grab attention. Does a mafia want that attention? I think not. You should probably not vote me if you're trying to get a mafia out tho (;
Black: Friendly. Thinks I'm town. There's daggers in [wo]men's smiles they say and all that though so I'll keep an eye out but behind Luca I think Black's second most likely town for me atm
Doctor Drew: Came in super early, then did a massive dip for filler and has only just now made a reappearance. Something about the tone feels off, I agree with Dannflor on that.
OutWorldER: That sussy werewolf gif got me thinking if OutWorldEr could be mafia, and yes, I think they well could be. At the risk of sounding repetitive, anyone trying to get people to vote me will naturally look sus to me. Not fully confident. OutWorldEr was part of the four(five) on the Bugswagon, and while Dann said he thinks there's a maximum of one mafia on that wagon, I would kind of expect between 1 and 2, likely 1, but probably not 0. So potentially one/both of OutWorldEr/Hu Tao

TLDR:

Super sus: ProjectRy, Doctor Drew
Slightly sus: Psyche, OutWorldEr, Hu Tao
Slightly townie: Dannflor, Jacob24, DeltaWave
Very townie: Black, Luca Blight, me
no idea: Gypyx, iavh

there you go lots of juicy content for ya.

[ketchup777]

Ketchup. If not Dann, who are you reading?

If you like I can give my current reads on every player

I would like this yes

Hu Tao: seems friendly and said at some point I'm the only player they're confident is town, so they must be doing something right! But could be a ploy to gain my trust, if it is one it's working tho! However my main point against is the vote on Bugs felt very jump-on-the-wagony, not giving reasons for it until pressed. A little sus perhaps.
Gypyx nee. ssbm_Kyouko: no reads.
ProjEctRy: seems suspicious, has done nothing besides a small bit of filler and go for me.
Dannflor nee. bugspray: due to bugs allowing replacement and my initial gut I'm like 66% for town, but Luca is so damn confident so there's a chance he's mafia. I am kind of scared by how professional Dannflor already seems, but don't want to vote out a townie just because they seem smart. Indeed having a smart person is good for voting out the mafia you'd think (:
Luca Blight: Very confident and accusing a lot of people. I agree with the general sentiment that this seems to be pretty townie. If awesome mafia bluff, hopefully Luca slips up later on.
Jacob24: I've backtracked a little bit from my initial guess turned mafia read, and now am in more neutral territory slightly leaning towards town. Anyone who said they think I'm town at some point will get some credit, and Jacob's one of those.
iamveryhappy: nightmare. posts are funny but I am struggling to read into them. One of the games I looked over there was a player like this who I also couldn't fathom out when I was making my guesses going along.
ketchup777: yo this guy's the most townie townie I ever have seen. he needs to start thinking before he clicks submit so people stop thinking he's mafia tho
Psyche: bro said I'm adorable +1000000 jkjk haven't seen much town-looking stuff from Psyche yet. Mostly filler.
DeltaWave: A bold meme opening where the punchline was about killing people was bound to grab attention. Does a mafia want that attention? I think not. You should probably not vote me if you're trying to get a mafia out tho (;
Black: Friendly. Thinks I'm town. There's daggers in [wo]men's smiles they say and all that though so I'll keep an eye out but behind Luca I think Black's second most likely town for me atm
Doctor Drew: Came in super early, then did a massive dip for filler and has only just now made a reappearance. Something about the tone feels off, I agree with Dannflor on that.
OutWorldER: That sussy werewolf gif got me thinking if OutWorldEr could be mafia, and yes, I think they well could be. At the risk of sounding repetitive, anyone trying to get people to vote me will naturally look sus to me. Not fully confident. OutWorldEr was part of the four(five) on the Bugswagon, and while Dann said he thinks there's a maximum of one mafia on that wagon, I would kind of expect between 1 and 2, likely 1, but probably not 0. So potentially one/both of OutWorldEr/Hu Tao

TLDR:

Super sus: ProjectRy, Doctor Drew
Slightly sus: Psyche, OutWorldEr, Hu Tao
Slightly townie: Dannflor, Jacob24, DeltaWave
Very townie: Black, Luca Blight, me
no idea: Gypyx, iavh

there you go lots of juicy content for ya.

You trust Luca but not his read on Dann/Bugs?

Just because he’s confident doesn’t mean he’s right. I’m aware that if I voted for Dann while he was still on 5 votes, someone would have probably voted him off. I didn’t think I was ready for that yet. Maybe the combination of town reading me and posting a lot was trying to appeal to me to avoid being voted off, but I’m not sure. Luca raised a good point later on that the flip might be informative tho. I’m ok for now tho.
Meanwhile, Drew’s argument against Luca over the last two pages makes no sense. Maybe he is bussing his partner Dann and trying to seem good for it later? He himself acknowledged that ‘Dan is is in no danger of being quickhammered'- ok, so why does it matter so much that you get Luca to vote for him?

[ketchup777]

I’m town

oh that’s cool. I’m town too bestie

[ketchup777]

VOTE: ketchup

i think this is a better vote by far right now

OutWorld, you've seen me catch Bugs first-hand in such a manner in the game I linked earlier, and you've been suspicious of that slot as well since the beginning of the game. Let's eliminate Dann today and ketchup's alignment will become clearer as a result.

Ehh...again, like I said, the way ketchup is playing around the Dann lim feels less like he townreads him and more that he's simply informed Dann is town. Limming ketchup here is smarter because of that, at least how I see it.

And frankly, after being able to sleep on it, I just don't think the case is all that you've cracked it up to be. Bugspray was independently scummy in this game, I agree with that, but I also agree with Dann's 437 in that they also just didn't really get a chance to play the game. Dann's play so far has been a lot townier and I feel like letting him cook for a bit longer.

pedit:bruh

You sus me for toe reading Dan when you’re townreading Dan??

[ketchup777]

VOTE: ketchup

i think this is a better vote by far right now

OutWorld, you've seen me catch Bugs first-hand in such a manner in the game I linked earlier, and you've been suspicious of that slot as well since the beginning of the game. Let's eliminate Dann today and ketchup's alignment will become clearer as a result.

Ehh...again, like I said, the way ketchup is playing around the Dann lim feels less like he townreads him and more that he's simply informed Dann is town. Limming ketchup here is smarter because of that, at least how I see it.

And frankly, after being able to sleep on it, I just don't think the case is all that you've cracked it up to be. Bugspray was independently scummy in this game, I agree with that, but I also agree with Dann's 437 in that they also just didn't really get a chance to play the game. Dann's play so far has been a lot townier and I feel like letting him cook for a bit longer.

pedit:bruh

You sus me for toe reading Dan when you’re townreading Dan??

townreading* lmao

[ketchup777]

VOTE: ketchup

i think this is a better vote by far right now

OutWorld, you've seen me catch Bugs first-hand in such a manner in the game I linked earlier, and you've been suspicious of that slot as well since the beginning of the game.

Let's eliminate Dann today and ketchup's alignment will become clearer as a result

.

thats another thing too

it kinda feels like ketchup knows that dann flips town

*Makes no sense at this stage, that should have read.

For some reason,

Bugs asking Ketchup if they were an alt pinged me as a potential partner interaction at that point in time as well

.

I just wanted to say that if Ketchup is indeed scum, then you're doing a terrific job! Just don't defend your buddy so obviously next time

I know you didn't write both sides of the argument, but it seems like I'm getting condemned if Dann gets voted out whatever he flips. If he's mafia, I didn't vote him because I was his teamie. If he's town, I didn't vote him because I knew he was town and was trying to look good.

I may full well be responsible for driving myself into this corner, but if Dann does eventually end up getting flipped, I'm interested how I can emerge in a positive light.

It would've been prime time to jump on the Bugswagon (before the replacement happened) if I wanted to not look guilty as a mafia. But I assure you, I've sticked to not voting him because I don't want to be a lazy sheep townie, even though I feared I might incriminate myself a bit.

Also heads up, for this weekend only I will be a lot less active from around 10am GBT - 10pm GBT, as meeting with friends and stuff. But I'll try make sure I can always get something in mornings and afternoons and I'll still read everything obvs (:

[ketchup777]

VOTE: ketchup

i think this is a better vote by far right now

OutWorld, you've seen me catch Bugs first-hand in such a manner in the game I linked earlier, and you've been suspicious of that slot as well since the beginning of the game. Let's eliminate Dann today and ketchup's alignment will become clearer as a result.

Ehh...again, like I said, the way ketchup is playing around the Dann lim feels less like he townreads him and more that he's simply informed Dann is town. Limming ketchup here is smarter because of that, at least how I see it.

And frankly, after being able to sleep on it, I just don't think the case is all that you've cracked it up to be. Bugspray was independently scummy in this game, I agree with that, but I also agree with Dann's 437 in that they also just didn't really get a chance to play the game. Dann's play so far has been a lot townier and I feel like letting him cook for a bit longer.

pedit:bruh

You sus me for toe reading Dan when you’re townreading Dan??

I'm not suspecting you for "townreading" Dann, and I think I've made that point entirely clear multiple times. There's a difference between townreading somebody and simply knowing that they will flip town. The former is standard, the latter is a perspective slip.

Ok. Well, I don't know that Dan will flip town for the record. I was just considering one of two possible scenarios.
If he flips mafia I was already aware I am going to look sus, and that's unfortunate.
If he flips town I am apparently also going to look sus.

Getting in now that at least one of
DeltaWave/OutWorldEr/ProjectRy

is extremely likely to be mafia,

I don't think I've been sus enough to merit three people targeting me, an innocent townie

[ketchup777]

no i hate being on the periphery!
i should be able to engage better as weekend rolls in

your tsunami avatar fits your playstyle so well then haha
(accumulating over time)

[ketchup777]

ketchup I know you said you were gonna be less active or the weekend but i would really like if you expand what you think of my slot

specifically why you are town reading me

and I'd love it if you could avoid referring to the replace out in the read

I feel like your opinion on my slot isn't really based in my or bugspray's play necessarily

you're right, it's kind of initial gut feeling based on the way bugs was standing out. and the fact that few games I looked at the immediate 'obvious' wagon got town every single time.
I've laughed to myself about how badly people have got it wrong every time, would be embarassing if I did the same.

I know that's not very substantial.

[ketchup777]

you're right, it's kind of initial gut feeling based on the way bugs was standing out. and the fact that few games I looked at the immediate 'obvious' wagon got town every single time.
I've laughed to myself about how badly people have got it wrong every time, would be embarassing if I did the same.

so would it be accurate to say that your refusal to vote me is more out of not wanting to be wrong than an actual strong belief that I am town?

If I thought Bugs/Dann were more likely to be mafia, I would be on that wagon, but I want to wagon on one of the people I'm most confident are mafia at the time. My current standing on you is somewhere in the middle of the list of suspects, but there are others (namely Project, Drew, Psyche, Outworlder, Delta creeping in now a bit as well) that I would rather vote first

[ketchup777]

you're right, it's kind of initial gut feeling based on the way bugs was standing out. and the fact that few games I looked at the immediate 'obvious' wagon got town every single time.
I've laughed to myself about how badly people have got it wrong every time, would be embarassing if I did the same.

so would it be accurate to say that your refusal to vote me is more out of not wanting to be wrong than an actual strong belief that I am town?

If I thought Bugs/Dann were more likely to be mafia, I would be on that wagon, but I want to wagon on one of the people I'm most confident are mafia at the time. My current standing on you is somewhere in the middle of the list of suspects, but there are others (namely Project, Drew, Psyche, Outworlder, Delta creeping in now a bit as well) that I would rather vote first

[ketchup777]

sorry for double post
sorry for the sorry that makes it a triple post

[ketchup777]

Ok Drew isn't my number 1 suspect atm and the attempt to pressurise didn't really get anywhere. Not liking Drew's posts in general but if my other top suspect is getting voted for let's try them again.

VOTE: ProjectRy

[ketchup777]

I don't think I've been sus enough to merit three people targeting me, an innocent townie

Every time you say something like this I dock like 1/4 of a townpoint from you. If you are town then you gotta stop

I.e. saying 'because I’m town?'. Sure haha
I can see how that could get annoying

[ketchup777]

VOTE: ketchup

i think this is a better vote by far right now

OutWorld, you've seen me catch Bugs first-hand in such a manner in the game I linked earlier, and you've been suspicious of that slot as well since the beginning of the game.

Let's eliminate Dann today and ketchup's alignment will become clearer as a result

.

thats another thing too

it kinda feels like ketchup knows that dann flips town

*Makes no sense at this stage, that should have read.

For some reason,

Bugs asking Ketchup if they were an alt pinged me as a potential partner interaction at that point in time as well

.

I just wanted to say that if Ketchup is indeed scum, then you're doing a terrific job! Just don't defend your buddy so obviously next time

I know you didn't write both sides of the argument, but it seems like I'm getting condemned if Dann gets voted out whatever he flips. If he's mafia, I didn't vote him because I was his teamie. If he's town, I didn't vote him because I knew he was town and was trying to look good.

I may full well be responsible for driving myself into this corner, but if Dann does eventually end up getting flipped, I'm interested how I can emerge in a positive light.

It would've been prime time to jump on the Bugswagon (before the replacement happened) if I wanted to not look guilty as a mafia. But I assure you, I've sticked to not voting him because I don't want to be a lazy sheep townie, even though I feared I might incriminate myself a bit.

Also heads up, for this weekend only I will be a lot less active from around 10am GBT - 10pm GBT, as meeting with friends and stuff. But I'll try make sure I can always get something in mornings and afternoons and I'll still read everything obvs (:

I think you're just likely to be town in general at this point.

Oh ok cool.

Ok Drew isn't my number 1 suspect atm and the attempt to pressurise didn't really get anywhere. Not liking Drew's posts in general but if my other top suspect is getting voted for let's try them again.

VOTE: ProjectRy

Something that has to be considered is also the the concept of the '

informative elimination'

.

I'm really hoping the lurkers in general contribute a great deal more before the end of the day, but as things stand eliminating Dann (even if he flips Town, which I highly doubt) will give us a lot more to go on going forward than eliminating a random lurker, for which we might as well be drawing from a hat.

Of course, when it comes to lurker eliminations, scum have the upper hand as they know which lurker is scum and which isn't, so the chances of hitting scum are small.

Ah that’s smart. Luca is not made of atoms but is in fact made of good ideas. I’ll try to be more open minded over the next couple of (real-life) days and see if there’s enough to go on for me to try dann. for pride is one of the deadly sins and I have to admit I was wrong sometimes

[ketchup777]

Ok Drew isn't my number 1 suspect atm and the attempt to pressurise didn't really get anywhere. Not liking Drew's posts in general but if my other top suspect is getting voted for let's try them again.

VOTE: ProjectRy

This feels eerily like what Dann said about his case on me(ie it was more for the reaction).

Are you just vote hopping until something sticks?

Dann was the one who asked me to vote you to help ramp up the pressure. Nothing came of it though so I’d rather stick to what I was on before.

[ketchup777]

ive only known been aware of ketchup's existence for like a day and a half. but if anything happened to him, i would kill everyone in this thread and then myself.

aww thanks new bestie

I read whatever I’ve missed over the last ten hours or so and (I swear before the quoted post) I heavily now townread psyche. So that’s awesome! Coming out from the shadows has helped a lot, hopefully.

what does pedit mean is it like poo!enemies drowning in tar

[ketchup777]

pedit is when you make a normal post (as opposed to a quick reply) and you can see any new replies that popped up while you were writing the post in question when submitting

aha i understand tanks

[ketchup777]

anyways what's so cool about the projectry wagon? What sins does he need to repent for

I’m sorry black I’ll try make this the last time I use this reasoning: it’s mostly the fact that he hasn’t suspected anyone other than me and I know I’m town. At the start was getting stealthy mafia vibes, I’m going to go through his ISO for a bit now and see if my read has changed. It’s all going to chaos as dann has not been convincing me recently, Luca pointing out the potential him/outworlder interaction did resonate with me as a possibility. Can’t even trust my reads anymore ):

[ketchup777]

Plus, Ketchup backing off me for......reasons??

Seems like they were just hoping for any mislim to go through.

ngl my vote on you was, per danns suggestion, just trying to get some kind of reaction out. don’t think what I got helped me out tho

[ketchup777]

And the lack of posts, your iso was on 9 a minute ago.

but I’m not even convinced anymore. need more time to think

UNVOTE: ProjectRy

[ketchup777]

This probably seems super dodgy but whatever.

My perspective on dann has changed. Maybe having essentially 2 days off helped me to come back with a new outlook, but now looking at it it feels like he’s been doing too much and I am scared of how powerful he could become if we don’t vote him out now. I still am not convinced why bugs was getting so much slander at the start, but looking at dans posts (111 of them!) it just feels as if he’s done too much? And is too desperate? I don’t want to put him in e-1 right before I go to sleep, so dann, you have one last chance to convince me, but if not, I’m voting you in 9 hours or so from now.

If this is wrong, at least we get a lot of information hopefully, as someone pointed out. I think this is for the best.

[ketchup777]

i think it's a good thing to give dannflor a chance to save himself

Nows your chance potential bestie

[ketchup777]

ugh oh boy ugh so we are really forcing the dannflor question huh

I guess we are (:
unless he gets hammered before he wakes up

[ketchup777]

ugh oh boy ugh so we are really forcing the dannflor question huh

I do almost feel better limming Ketchup here though

methinks that would not be in your best interests if you’re town

[ketchup777]

would you vote drew?

i don't hate the projectry vote but drew is noticeably more present here and thus i think more pressure there would be useful at the moment

this and before this it feels like you kept trying to redirect to drew. but that doesn't prove your alignment one way or the other aaahhh

[ketchup777]

also lol he wasn’t actually in e-1 because drew voted him twice

[ketchup777]

woah woah woah i thought we were going to feed him tithe crocodiles?

[ketchup777]

"Mafia is multitasking by default."

What does this mean?

Also hi

interesting, I was doing some more reading of other games for fun to try to alleviate the dann scum decision and came across this from mini normal 2324. similarly to bugs, delta started with a question about multitasking in this game and did indeed turn out to be mafia.

why haven't you pointed this out delta?

our game started on the 23rd, and DeltaWave was voted out of 2324 on the 22nd. Although I haven't read enough of the game to know how much suspicion was placed on the above post, it feels as if this somewhat rules out a Delta/Bugs partnership. Unless Bugs were the type to brazenly come into this thread without any discussion in the scum PT, if bugs had posted their potential opening there I feel Delta would've shot it down. But I am also confused because wouldn't this have been a good point against Bugs?

[ketchup777]

"Mafia is multitasking by default."

What does this mean?

Also hi

interesting, I was doing some more reading of other games for fun to try to alleviate the dann scum decision and came across this from mini normal 2324. similarly to bugs, delta started with a question about multitasking in this game and did indeed turn out to be mafia.

why haven't you pointed this out delta?

our game started on the 23rd, and DeltaWave was voted out of 2324 on the 22nd. Although I haven't read enough of the game to know how much suspicion was placed on the above post, it feels as if this somewhat rules out a Delta/Bugs partnership. Unless Bugs were the type to brazenly come into this thread without any discussion in the scum PT, if bugs had posted their potential opening there I feel Delta would've shot it down. But I am also confused because wouldn't this have been a good point against Bugs?

well we have a site wide rule of discussing ongoing games outside of the game thread but given it ended like 2 hours ago it's good now

besides it's a good point

ah that was lucky lol

thx (:

[ketchup777]

Initial thoughts -

bugspray - The infamous multitasker poster. Let's face it, it was a stupid post, but was it scummy? A town PR would never out themselves like that.

I could see a whacked out VT doing that, though.

VOTE: Daan

why haven't you pointed this out delta?

If you think the problem with Bugs' post is that he brought up multitasking, you don't understand the problem with the post. The problem is that Bugs implied that they had a role which wasn't allowed under Simple Normal, which is basically a day one post one PR claim that Bugs is a multitasking something.

can you explain what you meant by this? google told me exhausted, but why would bugs be exhausted on the first post?

[ketchup777]

No lol

What?! Did you know that dann was a replacement?

[ketchup777]

ahh dang it

704 is very good, but I took another look at Bugs' posts though, and decided that 158 and 165 do read more like a mafia player. As town's purpose is to have fun finding the mafia players, I don't think town!bugspray would've not tried at all.

I saw a couple other people using the exclamation mark notation forgive me if it means something I'm not aware of (:

here goes

a lot riding on this

I'm sorry because I can tell 704 must have taken a while and it feels like a waste killing you. But I'm going to commit. Someone said you had a case for the #1 player and so I can imagine you'd be capable of a long defence regardless of alignment. You said you read this game beforehand so you knew it would be an uphill battle and you were prepared for that. Did Obi-Wan not teach you that having the high ground is important? Or will this be a battle of hastings situation where you pull some awesome move and then backstab us? Who knows? One of OutWorldEr, Black, iavh, Project, Psyche or Gypyx.

grabs popcorn

VOTE: Dannflor

[ketchup777]

Or will this be a battle of hastings situation where you pull some awesome move and then backstab us? Who knows? One of OutWorldEr, Black, iavh, Project, Psyche or Gypyx.

grabs popcorn

VOTE: Dannflor

is...

is this your way of saying where you think the potential scums are?

otherwise if by the "!" notation you mean like scum!*insert player name* or town!*insert player name* i am not sure that's the actual use but personally i use it as shorthand for "if he was that alignement"

Oh no you guys are the ones currently not voting Dann (excluding Dann - can you even self-vote?) and the ones with the power to hammer him. ): I'm sowwy Dann

Yes! that's what I was going for with the ! notation (wow it's saved so much time)

[ketchup777]

Yeah there's always the chance I start doubting myself again and unvote lol

[ketchup777]

just avenge me

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah the doubt
I'll try

[ketchup777]

ill see if i can post one last ordered read list before thread locks

dangit I'm sorry nooooooooo gogogo

[ketchup777]

DANGIT I TAKE THE BLAME FOR THIS

[ketchup777]

good luck in the afterlife ):
hope you get reincarnated as a tortoise or something

[ketchup777]

DANGIT I TAKE THE BLAME FOR THIS

If this is indeed town don't worry too much, everyone here has limmed the wrong person once at least

mmmmmm still feels bad tho I ended up convincing myself onto the wagon I did not want to join
In the meantime someone should study the medical miracle of the talking dead person Dann

[ketchup777]

Dann might still be scum here. His ghost has lied before

might be the only way to rescue me from depression

[ketchup777]

i think this game is gonna be tough because we really never had more than one wagon through D1

I mean the bugs/mine wagon was the main one and it stayed pretty stagnant. The next largest wagon was what, projectry with 2 or maybe 3 votes?

scum didn't really have to do a whole lot this day phase besides let town push town

I am trying not to be too pessimistic but I do think this game is going to be an uphill battle. Whoever is town here needs to focus on finding each other and working together

all of this is true.
townies need to be found but it's going to be hardddd.
say you flip town, I wonder if Luca will be killed? or if he starts to look town.
banish ing dan could be the worst thing that's happened this year.

[ketchup777]

avert your precious eyes from the flip ketchup, you must keep hope intact

cries

[ketchup777]

VERY CONFIDENT TOWN:

OutWorldER
luca blight
Black

Lean town: (this is my could be wrong tier)

gypyx, projectry, psyche, ketchup

mixed:

jacob

scum lean:

doctor drew, iavh

scum:

deltawave

ok there we go

#704 and #803 will be the numbers to remember if Dann is town

[ketchup777]

that's fair but we can't exactly make them post magically now can we? although it really bums me out how much of a nothing burger we got from some slots

I mean that's my point

if there had been more wagons D1 people would naturally have had to react and post more

like I would've loved to get an actual wagon going on Drew or Deltawave

I was beginning to suspect DeltaWave, I shouldn't have rushed things.

It's going to be an interesting night eh.

[ketchup777]

iamveryhappy has died! They were a

Vanilla Townie.

DeltaWave has died! She was a

Vanilla Townie.

Day Two begins now.

holy crap
I did not see either of these coming

[ketchup777]

iamveryhappy has died! They were a

Vanilla Townie.

DeltaWave has died! She was a

Vanilla Townie.

Day Two begins now.

holy crap
I did not see either of these coming

I thought the dead would be one of me, black, hu tao or luca.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

is the only way for a second person to die a vigilante?

[ketchup777]

thanks for not killing me tho people. I'll try my best to get out a mafs

[ketchup777]

VERY CONFIDENT TOWN:
OutWorldER
luca blight
Black

Lean town: (this is my could be wrong tier)
gypyx, projectry, psyche, ketchup

mixed: jacob

scum lean: doctor drew, iavh

scum: deltawave

Based on the fact that Delta was Dann's top scum pick (and I had even mentioned I was starting to have suspicions), I assume that if there is a vigilante they shot delta and IAVH was killed as noone really knew what he was. but it's an interesting decision either way. dam

[ketchup777]

iamveryhappy has died! They were a

Vanilla Townie.

DeltaWave has died! She was a

Vanilla Townie.

Day Two begins now.

holy crap
I did not see either of these coming

I thought the dead would be one of me, black, hu tao or luca.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

is the only way for a second person to die a vigilante?

Why would they have killed you? You’ve been suspected by multiple people.

Also townread/suspected by the likes of hu tao, black, dann, luca, gypyx I think, tho

[ketchup777]

Also @Black, I’ve finally got a profile pic. Don’t read too much into my choice tho.

my my. do you want to talk about anything?

[ketchup777]

By the way, maybe someone more experienced than me can say if my hypothesis is bad, but the people online at the time when night 1 ended were me, Drew, Gypyx and Project. I imagine there's a bit more incentive to be online for town as we are desperately curious to find out who died? I know I was

[ketchup777]

i think iavh was scum trying to aim at a PR

?? he flipped town

[ketchup777]

I vigged Happy.

Delta as the scum kill seems weird to me though.

dam good try

anyone want to counter claim?

[ketchup777]

I vigged Happy.

Delta as the scum kill seems weird to me though.

dam good try

anyone want to counter claim?

clarifying that's not sarcasm, I might've gone for them too.

[ketchup777]

i think iavh was scum trying to aim at a PR

?? he flipped town

Gyp thought scum killed happy because they thought he was a PR

aha I understand thx

[ketchup777]

By the way, maybe someone more experienced than me can say if my hypothesis is bad, but the people online at the time when night 1 ended were me, Drew, Gypyx and Project. I imagine there's a bit more incentive to be online for town as we are desperately curious to find out who died? I know I was

I was also waiting to find out, but I’d imagine there is not too much to read into. That just says we didn’t have anything better to do with our lives tonight .

But I appreciate the dedication of you monitoring that. Makes me look more favourably of you.

hahaha true
i should be doing english homework but this counts right? using vocab to form arguments...

[ketchup777]

I vigged Happy.

Delta as the scum kill seems weird to me though.

scum is probably more newb than veterans then cause i think this kill comes from a lack of confidence they'd be able to spin delta as town after that

hmm perhaps yeah. still bizarre, outworlder was voting delta and I was maybe going to kick today off with a delta vote.hmmm

[ketchup777]

I vigged Happy.

Delta as the scum kill seems weird to me though.

dam good try

anyone want to counter claim?

My initial plan was to vig you if Dann flipped town, btw......changed my mind since most people were town reading you and happy was at best a slot that was trolling the game, best not to waste our energy on him.

ok
I mean
You were right not to vig me, shame about iavh but hopefully I can be a useful townie today

[ketchup777]

By the way, maybe someone more experienced than me can say if my hypothesis is bad, but the people online at the time when night 1 ended were me, Drew, Gypyx and Project. I imagine there's a bit more incentive to be online for town as we are desperately curious to find out who died? I know I was

I was also waiting to find out, but I’d imagine there is not too much to read into. That just says we didn’t have anything better to do with our lives tonight .

But I appreciate the dedication of you monitoring that. Makes me look more favourably of you.

hahaha true
i should be doing english homework but this counts right? using vocab to form arguments...

Playing mafia will forever change your vocabulary but also make you really good at english so like, take your pick

Both sound good to me! my favourite new term is wifom, having just studied game theory in further maths (:

[ketchup777]

iamveryhappy has died! They were a

Vanilla Townie.

DeltaWave has died! She was a

Vanilla Townie.

Day Two begins now.

holy crap
I did not see either of these coming

I thought the dead would be one of me, black, hu tao or luca.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

is the only way for a second person to die a vigilante?

I can see why scum might want me and Lucca dead but why you and Hu Tao?

Hu Tao seems to be going quite under the radar at the moment, not going to be a very controversial kill if she dies mefeels as in no-one's going to have any reason to kill hu tao so no suspicions could be cast. Dan forgot to post his thoughts on Hu Tao's alignment in 804 it seems?

me for the aforementioned decent amount of people (including dann) who have townread or townleant me (good job guys)

[ketchup777]

iamveryhappy has died! They were a

Vanilla Townie.

DeltaWave has died! She was a

Vanilla Townie.

Day Two begins now.

holy crap
I did not see either of these coming

I thought the dead would be one of me, black, hu tao or luca.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

is the only way for a second person to die a vigilante?

I can see why scum might want me and Lucca dead but why you and Hu Tao?

Hu Tao seems to be going quite under the radar at the moment, not going to be a very controversial kill if she dies mefeels as in no-one's going to have any reason to kill hu tao so no suspicions could be cast. Dan forgot to post his thoughts on Hu Tao's alignment in 804 it seems?

me for the aforementioned decent amount of people (including dann) who have townread or townleant me (good job guys)

803**

[ketchup777]

who here is spicy enough to try and fuck with all the town by making such a nonsense kill

this sounds like you are proud of yourself maybe lol
imaginging you deviously rubbing your hands rn

[ketchup777]

I vigged Happy.

Delta as the scum kill seems weird to me though.

scum is probably more newb than veterans then cause i think this kill comes from a lack of confidence they'd be able to spin delta as town after that

hmm perhaps yeah. still bizarre, outworlder was voting delta and I was maybe going to kick today off with a delta vote.hmmm

I will be honest here, wish I didn't waste my 1 shot on Happy(though glad they aren't here to muck things up).

Wish I stuck to my plan to big you, I just don't buy what Ketchup is selling.

sure. I'll try make you not regret it

[ketchup777]

I vigged Happy.

Delta as the scum kill seems weird to me though.

scum is probably more newb than veterans then cause i think this kill comes from a lack of confidence they'd be able to spin delta as town after that

Or it comes from a veteran trying to find a way to frame all the newbs

I literally hinted at my role in a not so subtle way, so I doubt it

what do you mean? are you talking about today's vig reveal or did you hint something before that we missed

[ketchup777]

Drew you're conftown right? Can't check the wiki pages atm

unless he's lying ooooh spooky
not that I can see any incentive for someone to fakeclaim vig here

[ketchup777]

gonna start lurking so it's a bad idea to kill me

Too late pal

You are supposed to say

Dayvig: Dann

when you make a post like this.

Definitely is not a joke run into the ground around these parts.

This was me hunting at my role btw

Be back in a little bit, birthday dinner with the parents

*Hinting not hunting

oop I missed that
have fun!
I also tried to breadcrumb in one of my later posts but noone's spoted it yet it seems

[ketchup777]

i'm not putting too much stock in the DeltaWave NKA cuz it could've happened for a million different reasons,

from someone thinking her reads were a genuine threat to them

all the way to scum thinking she was a pr for whatever reason

Ok so looking at Delta's ISO:

VOTE: Ketchup777

I can elaborate but just look at the ISO and tell me I'm wrong.

started off by accusing me

Initial thoughts -

Hu Tao - I get a town vibe from these posts.

Gypyx - I'm not sure yet.

ProjEctRy - A lot of filler. Neutral leaning sus.

Dannflor - 228 is so, so, so bad. Criticism of Drew seems forced. 277 is the kind of OMGUS I don't like. Drew being defensive as cited in 315 is not a scumtell at all. Everyone wants to stay alive no matter the wincon.

bugspray - The infamous multitasker poster. Let's face it, it was a stupid post, but was it scummy? A town PR would never out themselves like that. I could see a whacked out VT doing that, though.

Luca Blight - I don't really like the whole "I found the scumteam on post 24" stuff but this seems like it's coming from overexcited town than scum. It's just too much attention to draw on page 2. It's a bold move for scum to pick fights and make enemies that early in the game. OTOH, the reads are based on thin logic. But then again, that's what town does. Will say null town. Points deducted for not recognizing my meme. The confidence in 130, presuming it's Luca!Scum and they're trying to get a miselim on BG, seems unlikely. With BG almost being limmed I wouldn't expect scum to take such a strong position because it would get them trouble later after the flip.

Jacob24 - I can't tell you exactly why, but Post 88 didn't rub me the right way. Overall a sideliner.

iamveryhappy - I get the impression that they are staying close to the sidelines despite participating in the discussion. I think this is scummy.

ketchup777 - Newbie town probably.

Psyche - Overall I like the posts.

DeltaWave - Obvscum

Black - Not sure at this time.

Doctor Drew - Seems to ask a lot of questions without providing a lot of opinions. Not really liking that.

OutWorldER - Shading bugspray for the multitasker post isn't entirely unjustified but the reasoning on #85 seems like there's a hard attempt to justify that vote. The same thing kind of goes for #94.

VOTE: Daan

then after unvoting me, Delta sussed Project, Jacob, OutWorldEr, Drew, Dann and iavh. a lot of susses, the last 3 of which now seem/are innocent. I agree we don't want to run mind games but in case we decide to look deeper, these seem to be Delta's enemies.

Dann/OutWorld/someone else mkes sense to me. Maybe iavh

only you, OutWorldEr, remain in Delta's trio read. Convenient you try to get us not to worry too much about the reasoning for Delta's death?

[ketchup777]

i'm not putting too much stock in the DeltaWave NKA cuz it could've happened for a million different reasons,

from someone thinking her reads were a genuine threat to them

all the way to scum thinking she was a pr for whatever reason

Ok so looking at Delta's ISO:

VOTE: Ketchup777

I can elaborate but just look at the ISO and tell me I'm wrong.

started off by accusing me

Initial thoughts -

Hu Tao - I get a town vibe from these posts.

Gypyx - I'm not sure yet.

ProjEctRy - A lot of filler. Neutral leaning sus.

Dannflor - 228 is so, so, so bad. Criticism of Drew seems forced. 277 is the kind of OMGUS I don't like. Drew being defensive as cited in 315 is not a scumtell at all. Everyone wants to stay alive no matter the wincon.

bugspray - The infamous multitasker poster. Let's face it, it was a stupid post, but was it scummy? A town PR would never out themselves like that. I could see a whacked out VT doing that, though.

Luca Blight - I don't really like the whole "I found the scumteam on post 24" stuff but this seems like it's coming from overexcited town than scum. It's just too much attention to draw on page 2. It's a bold move for scum to pick fights and make enemies that early in the game. OTOH, the reads are based on thin logic. But then again, that's what town does. Will say null town. Points deducted for not recognizing my meme. The confidence in 130, presuming it's Luca!Scum and they're trying to get a miselim on BG, seems unlikely. With BG almost being limmed I wouldn't expect scum to take such a strong position because it would get them trouble later after the flip.

Jacob24 - I can't tell you exactly why, but Post 88 didn't rub me the right way. Overall a sideliner.

iamveryhappy - I get the impression that they are staying close to the sidelines despite participating in the discussion. I think this is scummy.

ketchup777 - Newbie town probably.

Psyche - Overall I like the posts.

DeltaWave - Obvscum

Black - Not sure at this time.

Doctor Drew - Seems to ask a lot of questions without providing a lot of opinions. Not really liking that.

OutWorldER - Shading bugspray for the multitasker post isn't entirely unjustified but the reasoning on #85 seems like there's a hard attempt to justify that vote. The same thing kind of goes for #94.

VOTE: Daan

then after unvoting me, Delta sussed Project, Jacob, OutWorldEr, Drew, Dann and iavh. a lot of susses, the last 3 of which now seem/are innocent. I agree we don't want to run mind games but in case we decide to look deeper, these seem to be Delta's enemies.

Dann/OutWorld/someone else mkes sense to me. Maybe iavh

only you, OutWorldEr, remain in Delta's trio read. Convenient you try to get us not to worry too much about the reasoning for Delta's death?

But it is also worth noting that Delta's ISO was pretty tiny. It didn't take me long to go through it, and the quoted posts above are the only real things of sustenance. If the scum realised this, they might have known it would be simple for us to direct all of our analysis to that post, so we could be looking for Delta's townreads, or a random mix. But I think Delta's townreads would have less incentive to kill Delta.

bedtime

[ketchup777]

i am not that bad at this game

b) i'm not that bad at this game

are you a parrot?

[ketchup777]

After looking closer there's only {OWER, Project, Psyche} that can be scum off wagon fmpov. So probably one in there and two on wagon if I had to guess

Didn't psyche also vote bugs/dann for a bit? got off the wagon fairly soon after tho

[ketchup777]

ye

Spoiler: selfie

awww

[ketchup777]

pre orders for the black or project wagons are offered, towncred for everyone who gets in

since not backing myself on day 1 did not go well, let's play was I right on my second vote? wagon edition

VOTE: ProjectRy

actually bedtime now

[ketchup777]

actually final thing before bed let's have an ISO count (accurate for the first 928 posts):

me: 113
Black : 100
Luca: 99
Gypyx: 92 (replaced in, first post was #294)
Drew: 51
Psyche: 48
OutWorldEr: 47
Hu Tao: 33
Jacob : 33
Project: 31

obviously looking at Delta and iavh, low posting is not necessarily mafia. but just gonna put this out there for future reference. (I swear I'm not trying to make myself look good I am aware I post too much please focus on the data as a whole and contemplate)

[ketchup777]

By the way, maybe someone more experienced than me can say if my hypothesis is bad, but the people online at the time when night 1 ended were me, Drew, Gypyx and Project. I imagine there's a bit more incentive to be online for town as we are desperately curious to find out who died? I know I was

I was also waiting to find out, but I’d imagine there is not too much to read into. That just says we didn’t have anything better to do with our lives tonight .

But I appreciate the dedication of you monitoring that. Makes me look more favourably of you.

actually final thing before bed let's have an ISO count (accurate for the first 928 posts):

me: 113
Black : 100
Luca: 99
Gypyx: 92 (replaced in, first post was #294)
Drew: 51
Psyche: 48
OutWorldEr: 47
Hu Tao: 33
Jacob : 33
Project: 31

obviously looking at Delta and iavh, low posting is not necessarily mafia. but just gonna put this out there for future reference. (I swear I'm not trying to make myself look good I am aware I post too much please focus on the data as a whole and contemplate)

I appreciate I’ve been accused of it myself, but for Gypyx being the 4th highest poster, a significant amount of her day-1 content was filler.

I think her day-1 stands in contrast to her day-2 opening. We’ve just lost three townies and it feels like she’s pushing hard to keep the momentum going. Although I’m conscious I could be mis-interpreting this because I’m on the end of it.

But I also don’t like her 583, walking away from the argument with Dann. Could read like she feels she’s overstepping and drawing too much attention so backs down.

VOTE: Gypyx

Going to place my vote here for now. I’ll pick back up tomorrow and review further.

I like both these posts actually. I feel a mafia wouldn’t have waved off my potential townread so quickly.

Meanwhile, you raise a decent point about Gypyx, I am a bit unsure of my current read on her but leaning town, I think.

[ketchup777]

That was supposed to come with a

UNVOTE: ProjectRy

[ketchup777]

And this is why I now SR Ketchup - who voted Dann just as he started posting actually town-indicative content.

I had a better opportunity to get him to e-1 hundreds of posts earlier if I had wanted to. In the end I was worried I was misreading hypnotic mind games content as town content and wanted to use the chance to get him out and find out before he could charm everyone

[ketchup777]

actually final thing before bed let's have an ISO count (accurate for the first 928 posts):

me: 113
Black : 100
Luca: 99
Gypyx: 92 (replaced in, first post was #294)
Drew: 51
Psyche: 48
OutWorldEr: 47
Hu Tao: 33
Jacob : 33
Project: 31

obviously looking at Delta and iavh, low posting is not necessarily mafia. but just gonna put this out there for future reference. (I swear I'm not trying to make myself look good I am aware I post too much please focus on the data as a whole and contemplate)

What is your read on Gypyx? And why do you think Project is scummy? It seems like you posted this to implicate him despite proving yourself wrong in the second half

Honestly I was very tired when I made this post so hadn’t had time to think about implicating anyone with it yet. Looking at it now I do think it somewhat likely the maf lies in

Psyche/OutWorldEr/Hu Tao/Jacob24/ProjectRy

But see a few posts back I like some of Project‘s recent stuff. So maybe 3 of the first 4. there is a noticeable gap between top 4 posters and bottom 6 posters (but drew is close to confirmed)

[ketchup777]

i left d1 most inclined to blame hu tao who's black-and-white approach to sorting dann seemed kind of artificial in retrospect but in truth there were decent reasons to scumread dann around and after his drew vote

will give up on being selective about read disclosure and just dump every worthless thought that occurs in my head

dump away then

[ketchup777]

better for town if scum don't know how many shots you have because it makes the night actions less predictable for them

i don't think it's a huge issue but idk, if I were in this scenario I'd only really claim vig and keep the amount of shots to myself.

well we don’t know he’s telling the truth…

[ketchup777]

i think this game is gonna be tough because we really never had more than one wagon through D1

I mean the bugs/mine wagon was the main one and it stayed pretty stagnant. The next largest wagon was what, projectry with 2 or maybe 3 votes?


scum didn't really have to do a whole lot this day phase besides let town push town

I am trying not to be too pessimistic but I do think this game is going to be an uphill battle. Whoever is town here needs to focus on finding each other and working together

all of this is true.
townies need to be found but it's going to be hardddd.
say you flip town, I wonder if Luca will be killed? or if he starts to look town.
banish ing dan could be the worst thing that's happened this year.

I know noones flagged any of my posts in particular yet but if the tone of the above one seems off i wrote in a rush trying to do a breadcrumbs but no one noticed it ):

no town credits for anyone now I’ve pointed out but for fun‘s sake can anyone see what I was trying?

[ketchup777]

And this is why I now SR Ketchup - who voted Dann just as he started posting actually town-indicative content.

I had a better opportunity to get him to e-1 hundreds of posts earlier if I had wanted to. In the end I was worried I was misreading hypnotic mind games content as town content and wanted to use the chance to get him out and find out before he could charm everyone

Which for me seems like an opportunistic scum mindset - you were concerned about Dann turning the tide and potentially becoming an asset to Town, whereas before you wanted to be on the right side of history following a Dann elimination, which always looked on the cards.

Speaking of '

charming'

everyone, I feel as though this is very much your stock in trade.

That’s fair, i am aware the way I have handled the dann wagon will not have made me look good at all. My (lack of)votes was based upon my genuine (changing) thoughts at the time. Obviously, there are liars around, and from your pov i could be one of them?

But let’s think

If I were mafia

And I could see that delta vs dann was a town vs town argument

Wouldn’t I be inclined to hold back and let whichever one gets voted out first get voted out? I could rush dann but why not just wait for him or delta to go? This leans me towards Gypyx‘s hammer also being town. Scum had no need to rush (except maybe because Dann is a more experienced player).

In response to your second comment, I mean, i base my life around being as friendly a persona as possible. If that comes off over text, so be it.

[ketchup777]

Spoiler:

I'm just gonna vomit forth my thoughts because I feel a bit sick whenever I look at this game anyway.

Hu Tao - lean town, I guess. Kind of a shitty town read because it's based on the idea that I think Hu Tao would be trying to play better / appear as if they were playing better as scum. Like, as it is, their D1 play consists of tunneling a town slot and not in a way that makes them optically look good like Luca Blight. I just think there might be more preparation and awareness on scum!HuTao's part about how they will look after I flip. I guess she could be scum but I don't really feel it.

Gypyx - also feel town? idk I think the way they immediately had a thought about Jacob on replacing in was towny. I think their kinda wibbly wobbly progression on me has been towny? I just town read their tone a lot I think.

ProjEctRy - I liked Psyche's read here. I think Projectry believes in his Ketchup push. I think the indignation about people's scum reads on him is towny. I think there is an empathy in his posts towards Ketchup that I wouldn't expect from a scum pushing a townie. I think 650 speaks to someone trying to sort the alignments of people pushing him.

Dannflor - a shining radiant beacon of towniness. pure of soul and pure of heart.

Luca Blight - I admit I have had doubts here. Especially when I spied that Luca Blight has last played mafia years ago and he is still projecting so much confidence on the bugspray read. but gun to head I still think this slot is town and I won't elaborate because that's fairly consensus. (btw it is fairly consensus because Luca Blight is useful to scum and they want to keep him going)

Jacob24 - I think Jacob's outrage in 283 rings true. I guess i found their outrage in the beginning about mindless reads to ring true. This is one of my weakest town reads tbh.

iamveryhappy - could be scum. I expect like an ounce of game advancing content from iavh at this point if they are town but i haven't seen that. they made one post about how im prob scum without really any context.

ketchup777 - I think he's just town. I understand the scum reads and I think the way ketchup phrases a lot of his posts is somewhat performative and surface level scummy. idk I don't think ketchup goes back and forth on my slot in the way that he did if he's scum. I think he fully commits to like hard defending me or not, not the sort of half-assed defense he did.

Psyche - similar read as above, but I think psyche picks a lane when it comes to my slot. They've gone from wanting to white knight to being possibly ambivalent. I think generally there is a depth of thought here that comes from town. I think they've gone against the grain but not in a way that really makes them optically look good.

DeltaWave - i think this is scum. I think the fact that Delta realized ketchup was a newbie in 505 but didn't unvote until 664 is emblematic of someone who isn't really fluidly thinking about the game. I think the line to ketchup about "needing to quit this line of argument" is reminiscent of scum only finding validity in arguments that are "factually correct," it's not really interested in ketchup's alignment.

To be honest, I think DeltaWave reading 228 straight and calling it "so, so, so bad" is a scum tell. I think scum are more likely to take non-serious posts seriously for the most part and again, the defense of Drew seems more based in "this argument is factually inconsistent" not "this argument is scum motivated." I also think the town read on Luca is exactly the position scum would be taking up right now. There's too many scum reads and not in a towny way.

Black - gun to head town. Unfortunately, I don't have as much confidence on this read (or many of my reads) as I am used to. I blame the position I've been forced into in this game. Overall, I think the way Black has treated my slot leans town. I think her shift from wanting to resolve my slot to giving me some time was natural. I think she believes in her push on Projectry. again, I've historically managed to get very confident reads on black but wasn't in a position to do that this game. still would say town if I had to choose.

Doctor Drew - still kinda think this is scum. I think DeltaWave is scummier at the moment but Drew is a good pick for partner and I still don't really have anything to town read from Drew's slot. Drew continually shading ketchup as I get run up is not really a good look, I feel like he's setting up for me to claim PR or something and wants a backup option. there hasn't really been an evaluation of who might be scum pending my scum flip, which drew seems to feel pretty strongly about. Luca meanwhile is trying different solves based on my flip, but Drew seems content just to OMGUS and leave it at that. maybe my expectations are too high but I expect more from town!drew here.

OutWorldER - never kill this, probably my most confident town read. i think there is a night and day difference between OWER's scum and town game and i think this is his town game. i think he really believes in his ketchup push. etc, etc,

*****

so like, if I run with all my reads then my solve ends up being Delta Wave/Doctor Drew/iamveryhappy

That's not really the most satisfying solve to me. It feels like 3 kinda LHF, but that's honestly where I'm at and I don't think I'm gonna really be able to evolve beyond that given my position here.

Currently, I feel strongest about Delta Wave as far as scum reads go.

I feel strongest about OWER as far as town reads go. If I were to ask that any of my reads are to be sheeped, those are the two I would ask to be sheeped if I die.

I know it's easy to say in hindsight, but this was actually a really Townie post, but unfortunately I was asleep at the time and the hammer happened before I had the chance to wake. I like to think I might have at least had pause for thought based on this, but unfortunately we'll never know.

And why exactly are you telling the thread about it? Especially after you've already started the day phase and started doing other stuff

I hadn't read through the D1 EoD posts, so I was just giving my thoughts as I went through.

Think that's + town points for Luca, indicates how he actually was cactching up after daystart, which town is more likely to do (especially town that's likely to die like Him)

Yeah maybe. I admit I didn’t do much because I didn’t want it to all be in vain if I died, but I’m going to go over it a lot now

[ketchup777]

Ketchup's play is looking bad but i'm willing to let it slide cause of their tone for no

Hu Tao, you and me, let's kill the scumteam

Well, I'm currently in between voting OutWorld and Ketchup. I need to review a few others first, which I'll get to a bit later.

don’t waste your vote on me laddy

[ketchup777]

VOTE: Jacob24

where is bro at

[ketchup777]

Honestly I was very tired when I made this post so hadn’t had time to think about implicating anyone with it yet. Looking at it now I do think it somewhat likely the maf lies in

Psyche/OutWorldEr/Hu Tao/Jacob24/ProjectRy

But see a few posts back I like some of Project‘s recent stuff. So maybe 3 of the first 4. there is a noticeable gap between top 4 posters and bottom 6 posters (but drew is close to confirmed)

What was your scumread on project based off of?

And why do you townread Gypyx?

Project‘s first few ISOs were either filler orotund focussed on me. But his posts have since improved.

I’m not fully set on gypyx, mostly a hunch based on general demeanour.


Could 989 be a Mason crumb or are they just friends?

[ketchup777]

I am trying not to be too pessimistic but I do think this game is going to be an uphill battle. Whoever is town here needs to focus on finding each other and working together

I can see OWER and ketchup but why is Psyche town? He kinda falls in the "no reads" bin with Project and I can't really pinpoint much of anything he's done this game

Can you explain your OutWorld read?

I agree with Dann's 486. This doesn't really feel like the scum!OWER that I've played with. He feels more engaged and inquisitive here. I think he's probably capable of mimicking his town behavior as scum but I think it's more likely that he's just town

I’ll trust you two on this for now

[ketchup777]

Honestly I was very tired when I made this post so hadn’t had time to think about implicating anyone with it yet. Looking at it now I do think it somewhat likely the maf lies in

Psyche/OutWorldEr/Hu Tao/Jacob24/ProjectRy

But see a few posts back I like some of Project‘s recent stuff. So maybe 3 of the first 4. there is a noticeable gap between top 4 posters and bottom 6 posters (but drew is close to confirmed)

What was your scumread on project based off of?

And why do you townread Gypyx?

Project‘s first few ISOs were either filler orotund focussed on me. But his posts have since improved.

I’m not fully set on gypyx, mostly a hunch based on general demeanour.

Could 989 be a Mason crumb or are they just friends?

i think pointing out potential PRs is antitown behaviour, would rather shut this down pretty pls <3

sowwy

[ketchup777]

Maybe we should vote off the wagon. Because scum shot on the wagon which was weird, especially since it was someone not many tr. Might mean they are comfortable with us voting in it.

I don’t understand. What?

[ketchup777]

You can be Sorry when i flip Town Mason Cop or something

if you’re a cop please investigate me to shut down the haters, they’re scaring me ):

[ketchup777]

VOTE: ketchup

Still think that ketchup seems scummy. Also Lucca looks bad now for their bad ready of bugs/Dann.

i think this is a very shallow post. want to give any reasoning? have you read back over all the 500+ posts you’ve missed yet? I don’t think Luca necessarily looks bad, mistakes happen, although I agree somewhat we need to be a bit more careful than before.

[ketchup777]

i feel the opposite. any reasonably experienced player can simulate attempting to solve. dann was scummier than bugs, just more polished. his drew vote and some posts prosecuting the wagon (e.g., where he solicits a "pressure" vote on drew from another slot) read as insincere compared to bugspray's consistently defiant messiness. made it very hard to marshall the resolve to defend dann as game progressed, and now makes it harder to interpret how people positioned around the wagon.

yeah Dann’s smooth talking had me pooping my pants I had to know if he was scum or not

[ketchup777]

i feel the opposite. any reasonably experienced player can simulate attempting to solve. dann was scummier than bugs, just more polished. his drew vote and some posts prosecuting the wagon (e.g., where he solicits a "pressure" vote on drew from another slot) read as insincere compared to bugspray's consistently defiant messiness. made it very hard to marshall the resolve to defend dann as game progressed, and now makes it harder to interpret how people positioned around the wagon.

yeah Dann’s smooth talking had me pooping my pants I had to know if he was scum or not

for the people who take everything literally, I would like to clarify this one is a hyperbole.

[ketchup777]

ProjEctRy has requested replacement

oop hope your irl stuff works out Project

[ketchup777]

Spoiler:

i don't really like to spend time doing this, but 145 is frankly all junk

you assert that bugs made more than one perspective slip. "perspective slips" and "scum pt slips" aren't a real thing. at best they're extremely rare. but the idea that bugs did it repeatedly over like a 5 post timeframe is ridiculous. how many times have you ever perspective slipped in a game as scum? on a similar vein, you repeatedly note that bugs fails to follow the context of what's being written, but only imply that this is scummy without ever engaging w the question of why someone being really bad at reading could say anything about whether they got a town or scum role pm. it doesn't. this set of accusations effectively requires that bugspray be, er, not very good at thinking, but never even considers the possibility that this observation about bugs' abilities could explain in a nai way pretty much every feature of bugs's play, even their first post.

also, you repeatedly cast survivalism -- trying not to get limmed -- as scummy. but town are at least as motivated as scum to not get limmed, both theoretically and empirically. stuff like deflecting attention, appealling to emotions, and so on are totally common responses by any type of player to scrutiny and again you don't attempt to think through how these things you don't like about bugs's posts actually suggest a scum win condition.

there's not enough weighing of alternative explanations here. you're taking things you don't like about bugs' play and handwaving the steps that explain why this play is more likely to come from scum than town.

I confidently townread Psyche for this post at the time, as it seemed like some genuine townie frustration, but my confidence has lessened since then as Psyche as ummed and erred a lot on this read and still not put anything forth in its stead.

There have been promises of content, but really only a lot of passive commentary on opinions and interpretations of others. It looks decent on the surface, but there's nothing else to it. So basically, 564 struck me as Townie, but virtually everything else in Psyche's ISO strikes me as scum passively coasting through this game.

VOTE: Psyche

I agree that psyche is coasting.
As Keats said in the coincidentally titled poem Ode to Psyche:

'Surely I dreamt to-day, or did I see The winged Psyche with awaken'd eyes?'

lol

but don’t know if I suspect psyche more than Jacob rn

[ketchup777]

i think this game is gonna be tough because we really never had more than one wagon through D1

I mean the bugs/mine wagon was the main one and it stayed pretty stagnant. The next largest wagon was what, projectry with 2 or maybe 3 votes?


scum didn't really have to do a whole lot this day phase besides let town push town

I am trying not to be too pessimistic but I do think this game is going to be an uphill battle. Whoever is town here needs to focus on finding each other and working together

all of this is true.
townies need to be found but it's going to be hardddd.
say you flip town, I wonder if Luca will be killed? or if he starts to look town.
banish ing dan could be the worst thing that's happened this year.

I know noones flagged any of my posts in particular yet but if the tone of the above one seems off i wrote in a rush trying to do a breadcrumbs but no one noticed it ):

no town credits for anyone now I’ve pointed out but for fun‘s sake can anyone see what I was trying?

noone? aww
first word of each line
'all townies say banish'
so helpful this was

[ketchup777]

VOTE: Ketchup

gonna let titus cook here and the game that just ended shows I'm not really the best at reading Project

i still maintain the ketchup read from yesterday, and although I kinda fuck with the psyche vote I could also see psyche being a townie having trouble getting into the game, which isn't hugely impossible considering how the votes yesterday played out

*borrows the buzzer*

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT

[ketchup777]

finally someone broke the silence

[ketchup777]

i am coasting, but it's not on purpose. i'll try one more time starting this evening to get my breakout moment.

Can you answer 1043 when you get a chance

@psyche

[ketchup777]

ok guys good post incoming in a min I just want to bloop #1111

[ketchup777]

And you, Ketchup? You're voting an absent player who is most likely getting replaced at some point, so your attention is better directed elsewhere for now. Do you have much in the way of reads currently?

There's been next to nothing to go off of today. I want to up the ante though.

Who would be for a massclaim be at this point to try get some momentum and not let the mafia have an easy ride in the shadows?

Please offer thoughts for or against this. Or just do

something!

As Black said in 1100 , we need to start pressuring people; thank you for pressuring me because the pace of this game is alarmingly stagnant right now.

end of post addition: I was going to offer up my rough current reads, but when I started with Hu Tao it suddenly turned into a surprise Hu Tao dismembering session. So here's my case against Hu Tao. It's so long it will be separated from my other reads. Here goes:

Hu Tao: Hmm well I looked at her ISO again just now, and, er... well. I found LOTS of things I am suspicious of. Here goes:

Sus 1: The destruction of bugs/dann:

After attacking Bugs' first in 39 , Hu Tao lays low until sensing an opportunity (perhaps) with Luca's 150 . Note the times between messages 150 and 151. Less than 2 minutes apart. Obviously we can tell that Hu Tao was online at the time, so maybe not so suspicious, but did she immediately sense an opportunity to exploit Luca and take it? Possibly. When she next comes on 70 mins later, she votes Bugs in 161 essentially sheeping Luca's reads. Black starts to cast suspicion on Bugs in 160 , and maybe this was the calling Hu Tao was waiting for? (ofc note that she could just have gone offline for a bit) Now she places her vote in 161 , and

continues to direct everyone towards voting this slot

, with 265 , 281 , 284 , 451 , 452 and 672 . For the people who don't want to go find those:

"Sorry you replaced into scum again, Dann. I was looking forward to playing with you again."
"Yep. Bug/Dann is scum slot. Let's keep voting"
"2 more votes. All we need for a day 1 scum elim"
"Stay the course of Dann. He's scum" [after Black switched her vote to Project]
"Dann is good at wiggling out of bad situations, but bug was scummy from their first post. Also with the meta involved."
"Quick. Someone hammer"

Read those together and judge for yourself, I guess.

Sus 2: other stuff

a:

Why am I very townie?

Jacob puts Hu Tao as one of his 'very townie' reads (along with himself, Drew and Luca). Hu Tao questions why she seems townie to him. If you were mafia, you might want to know this so you can keep doing what you're doing. As town, you could ask this too, but I think it's slightly less likely than mafia wanting to know why.

b:

I'm going to assume at least one scum is on the wagon. I'll dive into that a bit later when I have time.

Is it not likely to be more than one?

From what I’ve grasped, Dann is quite an influential player and seems to be respected. Was he not one of the biggest town threats in this game and so would have been important for scum to get him out at the earliest opportunity?

We aren't looking for teams at the moment. We just need to find one scum to get things in the right direction. There is not a reason to look for more than 1 currently.

Project begins to raise some good points and question the logic of Hu Tao and the reasoning behind the scumteam's kill. Hu Tao makes this strange statement I highlighted in purple above. Looking for the team and who could be partners is surely just as important and valid as looking for single scums? Now I did some more game reading for fun earlier because nothing interesting was happening over here and hey what did I find?

Remind me who you think my partner is, Hu Tao?

I'm sure you're scum. I'll figure out the other tomorrow.

The above is from the recently finished mini normal #2322, where Hu Tao was scum. Hu Tao used the same morally questionable logic in the endgame here on Jan 30th, a day and 5 hours before applying it again here. Suspicious much?

c:

There is also a bit of a disconnect between 941 and 942 . Hu Tao's "Hmm" read on Gypyx (rather than "townie") does not seem consistent with "This seems like a town post.

Unsure why there are votes on her at the moment

". "Hmm" suggests doubt, no? Then it would not be so surpising to see people also having doubts.

d:

Maybe we should vote off the wagon. Because scum shot on the wagon which was weird, especially since it was someone not many tr. Might mean they are comfortable with us voting in it.

I don’t understand. What?

Finally, Hu Tao hasn't answered my questioning here yet. Not suspicious necessarily but I still don't understand what she was trying to say.

well damn.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Fixed formatting.

[ketchup777]

oh crap the whole post wasn't meant to be in italics lmao. whatevs

[ketchup777]

Sorry if I'm wrong, as you've been nothing but friendly to me / townreading me so far. But there's my case. let's see your fight

[ketchup777]

My other reads:

Note: may be slightly rushed due to wanting sleep


Gypyx: Leaning town. Doubts people have been expressing could be valid, but 1095 is what makes her townie for me for now. The silence of the thread was 11 hours and 2 minutes. That must be the longest yet (excl. night phase). I wanted to break the silence myself, but wanted more to see who would be the silence breaker. Silence = good for mafia, at least until they get prodded. So I think, although it could be a double bluff, the first person to break the silence and try to get the game moving again was just always going to be more likely to be town for me (you missed your chance to pocket me, mafia!) (I hope...).

Titus nee Project: For why I am currently in a Project-is-town mindset, see 973 . For Titus, hardly anything to go off yet, but I like the logic used in 1077 . I had this thought of scum not caring which wagon won at some point as well.

Luca Blight: Sure, he got it very wrong with Bugs. Well, gotta respect the lad for trying. He keeps posting lots of useful analysis, and I agree with everyone who just think he is town (except Drew apparently, what you doing there buddy ): . If he's mafia, he's playing phenonemally so far. I think the mafia probably didn't kill him through a combination of fearing he would be protected (so can't kill him) but then realising that if they leave him alive, as well as taking out Delta to show everyone how wrong their reads are, people will start to be suspicious of Luca, maybe. Well I'm having none of it; Luca is in my good books for now. (: Even if by some chance he is mafia, he will hopefully keep offering up this juicy juicy analysis and keep the game moving. Mmm.

Jacob24: Currently inactive. If it wasn't for the surprise evidence I found against Hu Tao above in 1113 , my vote would still be on him. Some of his reads seem to be very volatile, and his singular post of day 2 accusing me without any evidence was shallow and unsatisfactory, showing the disengagement I might expect from a mafia member. Then to the second part of his most recent post,
"Also Lucca looks bad now for their bad ready of bugs/Dann."
Jacob begins to sow the seeds of suspicion onto Luca, just as scum wanted to happen when they decided not to kill him (see my Luca analysis above). Sus. Jacob also never answered Hu Tao's 450 . ayo you should probably stop dodging your interrogators my guy. (: His tone in general has just seemed off this game as well from the very first post, as I highlighted ages ago in 87 .
Also how did I go from being townread in 188 to being one of Jacob's top 2 suspects in 371 ? These were only 9h19mins apart! Talking of 371, two things:
--> He sheeps my reads format to seem like he is producing a lot of content, when in reality he does not give any reasoning for any of his reads so it would be easy to low-effort a reads list based on vibes.
-->

My list (for those who care):

This is a strange thing to say. All townies should care for some nice reads. The only people who wouldn't care so much (excl. disengaged townies) would be the mafia...

If only I could vote for 2 people at once...

ketchup777: Have you seen this guy's super awesome mega amazing reads posts recently? no way this guy not townie

Psyche: Conflicted between disengaged mafia and disengaged town. Leaning towards town at the moment based on vibes.

Black: Could be either alignment, but still lean town for now, although perhaps less strongly than last time I made one of these posts. Not my number 1 target but starting to be on my radar as the player pool shrinks because that's how this works I guess lol.

Doctor Drew: Without the vig claim I would have said likely mafia. But assuming I'm understanding correctly that 2 kills in the night must be a vig, this guy is fortunately close to confirmed.

OutWorldER: Unsure. Don't think I'm the best at reading him. Also I'm tired and need to go to bed. I'll try look over him sometime (someone remind me if I forget). He was protecting Dann but in a not-providing-much-evidence kind of way that isn't going to stop anyone from voting him so could have been an attempt to make himself look good. idk.

Fixed formatting.

[ketchup777]

NOOO NOT AGAIN

[ketchup777]

me when I try to use quick reply and mess up the shortcuts

[ketchup777]

I don't see a mass-claim as being necessary or beneficial right now.

I'll read through the rest of your post in a bit.

sure! I have no idea how it tends to turn out for the townies tbh

[ketchup777]

actually final thing before bed let's have an ISO count (accurate for the first 928 posts):

me: 113
Black : 100
Luca: 99
Gypyx: 92 (replaced in, first post was #294)
Drew: 51
Psyche: 48
OutWorldEr: 47
Hu Tao: 33
Jacob : 33
Project: 31

obviously looking at Delta and iavh, low posting is not necessarily mafia. but just gonna put this out there for future reference. (I swear I'm not trying to make myself look good I am aware I post too much please focus on the data as a whole and contemplate)

Could see a Hu Tao/Jacob/OutWorldEr scum team, although I haven't thought about their interactions with each other too much yet. Nothing springs to mind though, apart from Jacob ignoring Hu Tao's 450 . Ok, bedtime (:

[ketchup777]

I don't see a mass-claim as being necessary or beneficial right now.

I'll read through the rest of your post in a bit.

sure! I have no idea how it tends to turn out for the townies tbh

The standard practice is to mass-claim when in mylo, or I guess melo it's called now? Where if another mis-elimination occurs then Town loses.

Okey. Hopefully we can stay far enough ahead of the mafia to never even need to mass-claim then!

*forcibly abandons computer in favour of acquiring some sleep*

[ketchup777]

actually no - mylo still works. I just woke up so my mind isn't quite clear yet.

American timezone?

[ketchup777]

actually no - mylo still works. I just woke up so my mind isn't quite clear yet.

American timezone?

I'm from England (same as you I believe) but live in Thailand currently.

Oh awesome! I’ve never been outside europe yet but Thailand is one of the places that seems super cool

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: The Hu Tao murder case

And you, Ketchup? You're voting an absent player who is most likely getting replaced at some point, so your attention is better directed elsewhere for now. Do you have much in the way of reads currently?

There's been next to nothing to go off of today. I want to up the ante though.

Who would be for a massclaim be at this point to try get some momentum and not let the mafia have an easy ride in the shadows?

Please offer thoughts for or against this. Or just do

something!

[i/]

As Black said in 1100 , we need to start pressuring people; thank you for pressuring me because the pace of this game is alarmingly stagnant right now.

end of post addition: I was going to offer up my rough current reads, but when I started with Hu Tao it suddenly turned into a surprise Hu Tao dismembering session. So here's my case against Hu Tao. It's so long it will be separated from my other reads. Here goes:

Hu Tao: Hmm well I looked at her ISO again just now, and, er... well. I found LOTS of things I am suspicious of. Here goes:

Sus 1: The destruction of bugs/dann:

After attacking Bugs' first in 39 , Hu Tao lays low until sensing an opportunity (perhaps) with Luca's 150 . Note the times between messages 150 and 151. Less than 2 minutes apart. Obviously we can tell that Hu Tao was online at the time, so maybe not so suspicious, but did she immediately sense an opportunity to exploit Luca and take it? Possibly. When she next comes on 70 mins later, she votes Bugs in 161 essentially sheeping Luca's reads. Black starts to cast suspicion on Bugs in 160 , and maybe this was the calling Hu Tao was waiting for? (ofc note that she could just have gone offline for a bit) Now she places her vote in 161 , and

continues to direct everyone towards voting this slot

, with 265 , 281 , 284 , 451 , 452 and 672 . For the people who don't want to go find those:

"Sorry you replaced into scum again, Dann. I was looking forward to playing with you again."
"Yep. Bug/Dann is scum slot. Let's keep voting"
"2 more votes. All we need for a day 1 scum elim"
"Stay the course of Dann. He's scum" [after Black switched her vote to Project]
"Dann is good at wiggling out of bad situations, but bug was scummy from their first post. Also with the meta involved."
"Quick. Someone hammer"

Read those together and judge for yourself, I guess.

Sus 2: other stuff

a:

Why am I very townie?

Jacob puts Hu Tao as one of his 'very townie' reads (along with himself, Drew and Luca). Hu Tao questions why she seems townie to him. If you were mafia, you might want to know this so you can keep doing what you're doing. As town, you could ask this too, but I think it's slightly less likely than mafia wanting to know why.

b:

I'm going to assume at least one scum is on the wagon. I'll dive into that a bit later when I have time.

Is it not likely to be more than one?

From what I’ve grasped, Dann is quite an influential player and seems to be respected. Was he not one of the biggest town threats in this game and so would have been important for scum to get him out at the earliest opportunity?

We aren't looking for teams at the moment. We just need to find one scum to get things in the right direction. There is not a reason to look for more than 1 currently.

Project begins to raise some good points and question the logic of Hu Tao and the reasoning behind the scumteam's kill. Hu Tao makes this strange statement I highlighted in purple above. Looking for the team and who could be partners is surely just as important and valid as looking for single scums? Now I did some more game reading for fun earlier because nothing interesting was happening over here and hey what did I find?

Remind me who you think my partner is, Hu Tao?

I'm sure you're scum. I'll figure out the other tomorrow.

The above is from the recently finished mini normal #2322, where Hu Tao was scum. Hu Tao used the same morally questionable logic in the endgame here on Jan 30th, a day and 5 hours before applying it again here. Suspicious much?

c:

There is also a bit of a disconnect between 941 and 942 . Hu Tao's "Hmm" read on Gypyx (rather than "townie") does not seem consistent with "This seems like a town post.

Unsure why there are votes on her at the moment

". "Hmm" suggests doubt, no? Then it would not be so surpising to see people also having doubts.

d:

Maybe we should vote off the wagon. Because scum shot on the wagon which was weird, especially since it was someone not many tr. Might mean they are comfortable with us voting in it.

I don’t understand. What?

Finally, Hu Tao hasn't answered my questioning here yet. Not suspicious necessarily but I still don't understand what she was trying to say.

well damn.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Sus 1 is very good, and i guess since this game is way too static i'll try to vote there to see if this unlocks anything

Sus 2 feels more questionable and kinda reads as if you've came up with all that after formulating sus 1 and wanting to put more in your case, am i wrong?

VOTE: Hu Tao

No that's fair, I just wanted to lay down all my thoughts at once. I think sus2:b could actually be a good point, but the rest are hardly anything to go on.
Thanks for applying some pressure!

[ketchup777]

oops I am not trying to impersonate thomith. I am NOT thomith. (;

[ketchup777]

Right, time to go through OutWorld's ISO. Will answer other queries at me in a bit

[ketchup777]

2B is actually the one i disagree with the most ironically

it's very easy for scum to hide themselves in a team solve, have one misflip and "whoops guess i had it all wrong time to reevaluate" (aka : i'm free to vote the best vote for the scumteam)

later on team solves become more important as the restricted playerlist makes it easier to go by process of elimination

and anyways, consider this : scum!Hu Tao is doing this as scum cause she earnestly belives that's what town!Hu Tao would do / what she actually does as town

i think 2a is actually more interesting of a point given this kind of questions *can* come from town but generally townies who are way more engaged in the game

hmm I see
I'll bear all that in mind (:

[ketchup777]

OutWorldEr

I am looking at this from the perspective that OutWorld/Jacob/Hu Tao are scum

sus 1: Defending Jacob

So, I started off the game by pressuring Jacob. OutWorld immediately takes it upon himself to defend Jacob, first in 86 . Then he comes back a few hours later to consolidate Jacob's "It was intended to be somewhat controlling" argument in 92 by saying "Yeah Jacob's probably town". OutWorld goes on to add some slim reasoning in 107 (having been prompted by Black).

Jumping forwards a fair bit, in 888 , OutWorld

does

accuse Jacob here, but it lasts for only 31 minutes, so some kind of soft bus attempt maybe? Jacob doesn't post for a while after OutWorld switches his vote to project in 921 , and OutWorld doesn't even acknowledge Jacob in 921 .

sus 2: Defending Hu Tao

OutWorld also seems keen to defend Hu Tao. After I suggest

(highlighting it is a somewhat random suggestion)

the scenario that Jacob and Hu Tao are mafia partners, OutWorld immediately (18 minutes later) starts to ask why I am accusing Hu Tao:

-SNIP-

Hu Tao and Jacob may have had votes but they were far from the points of discussion at that time. All eyes were on bugspray. The lines of thinking and discussion at that time would've continued much the same as they did without Jacob's presence. The theory you've described here is patchwork at best.

My mind went off track when I said your bugspray townlean made no sense, disregard that.

The additional shade thrown at Hu Tao here also ruffles me, what's your read there?

I can't find who said it, but I agree with the premise that mafia are more likely to overreact to small things. The short time between my and OutWorld's posts suggests that his reply was unscripted (not discussed in scum PT) and Hu Tao seems to want to shut down his line of argument quickly in 147 , not being happy with OutWorld's mafia play directing attention towards her, maybe?:

Err. I think it's not shade. They were just giving an example

OutWorld is protective toward Hu Tao a couple more times later on, in 247 with "I think the Hu Tao push is bad" and in 695 reacting to Gypyx's joke read of Luca / Hu Tao Black, overreacting to what was (to me) a clear joke, but OutWorld was sidelined by the accusation of one of his scum buddies maybe? Post 703 certainly suggested that OutWorld had not realised Gypyx was joking, yet he later tried to downplay it in 1035 claiming he "interpreted the solve as a joke", but it definitely didn't seem like this at the time. He could have been trying to bandage an earlier blunder.

sus 3: late vote on Delta (probably my weakest point)

OutWorld suddenly switches to voting Delta in 717 , less than 4 hours before Dann was hammered. Perhaps he had planned ahead to murder Delta and wanted to make himself look good? As in, why would he have killed off someone he was generating suspicion on? {he thinks we might ask}. He had never even mentioned Delta before this point, I think. Outworld then threw a couple shades towards Delta in 732 and 735 and next thing we know Delta was dead. idk, aware this point is not very convincing. just want to thoughts dump. Maybe Outworld was ready for the delta chaos kill and wanted to end up on the right side of it. Maybe (:

Sorry for the delay, got sidetracked by life things

[ketchup777]

finally ketchup could you explain a bit more these vibes that Psyche is town? i feel like their 1128 and 1101 read pretty annoyed at actually being pointed at for "weak" reasons, which is more of a scum mindset where you're less focused around being able to solve and more like how you're looking. Yeah of course Psyche raises some fair points but that's not the question here

Hmm maybe. I think it's a bit unclear.

I like the analysis/reasoning/tone in 564, 573, 599 and 667. Also tone in general makes me smile as well as 331 and 597 being <33

[ketchup777]

Hmm I noticed that OutWorld started the Project wagon in 921 after Gypyx raised some concerns, then Hu Tao was quick to join the wagon (2h39 later) in 944 after I also joined and it started gaining momentum. They stayed there until Titus replaced in and they had to change tack.

[ketchup777]

Votecount 2.6

Votecount 2.6

Hu Tao (3):

ketchup777, Luca Blight, Gypyx

ketchup777 (2):

Jacob24, OutWorldER

Black (1):

Titus

Luca Blight (1):

Doctor Drew

Titus (1):

Hu Tao

Psyche (1):

Black

Not Voting (1):

Psyche

With 10 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution, and 5 to secure a no execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-10 18:21:39)

Mod Notes

None.

Oh yeah I forgot OutWorld and Jacob are buddied up on my wagon as well

I hope i’m not tunnelling too hard but it just keeps getting better and better

[ketchup777]

Ketchup, say I was revealed as town. How would that change your reads?

I‘d still think OutWorld and Jacob likely scum, maybe one of Project/Black/Gypyx thrown in for funsies.

I 95+% townread:

Me (it’s me), drew (vig), luca (analysis legend)

then the townleans

Black
Gypyx
Project
Psyche

And then you three (Hu Tao/Jacob/OutWorldEr). I would be very surprised if at least 2 of you 3 are not scum.

did you mean to say "when I‘m revealed as town?“

[ketchup777]

i feel great. stuff soon

Yayy I can't wait (:

[ketchup777]

Ketchup, say I was revealed as town. How would that change your reads?

I‘d still think OutWorld and Jacob likely scum, maybe one of Project/Black/Gypyx thrown in for funsies.

I 95+% townread:

Me (it’s me), drew (vig), luca (analysis legend)

then the townleans

Black
Gypyx
Project
Psyche

And then you three (Hu Tao/Jacob/OutWorldEr). I would be very surprised if at least 2 of you 3 are not scum.

did you mean to say "when I‘m revealed as town?“

No, it was a question to see if you townreading me changed your reads at all. I agree that OWR could be scum here. I'm unsure on jacob

oh what to make of this

[ketchup777]

I actually think Jacob is an okay vote if I think about it. Out of those that were on the wagon, this is the best vote.

VOTE: Jacob

Based on what you said, you'd be willing to vote here right?

I am fully willing to vote Jacob here, but I don’t know which of you i want to vote off more, and unfortunately voting for Jacob dilutes the wagons at the moment

[ketchup777]

Hu Tao, while you’re here, can you explain 943?

[ketchup777]

I actually think Jacob is an okay vote if I think about it. Out of those that were on the wagon, this is the best vote.

VOTE: Jacob

Based on what you said, you'd be willing to vote here right?

I am fully willing to vote Jacob here, but I don’t know which of you i want to vote off more, and unfortunately voting for Jacob dilutes the wagons at the moment

Dilutes? There is like 6 days left I think you gyp and Luca are town. So I don't think the wagon itself is bad but just misdirected

True, i guess we don’t have to rush for now. Interested to see what Jacob‘s probable replacement will do

[ketchup777]

i'm the original scum majority off wagon poster so you just know i said to myself "heck yeah" when reading this, or like, "Mais oui totalement" since i'm french

the Delta kill just never happens with a scum majority on the wagon, even if scum thought they *potentially* faced a PR here, better to let dayplay do it's thing rather than shrink the pool in which they actually are able to hide

i'd be cool with doing Black / Titus / Psyche today

I think I would be good with this.

Some good points are being made about Luca probably not being scum

can you give some actual anti-psyche points

[ketchup777]

pushing for more apathy also isn't a great look ketchup

I want excitement as much as you do don’t get me wrong. But am conscious I maybe was too hasty on dann in part due to wanting some fun action. But I might need to go slower and go on evidence not drama. Although I like the stuff I found on hu Tao so am happy to stay like this (:

[ketchup777]

i'm the original scum majority off wagon poster so you just know i said to myself "heck yeah" when reading this, or like, "Mais oui totalement" since i'm french

the Delta kill just never happens with a scum majority on the wagon, even if scum thought they *potentially* faced a PR here, better to let dayplay do it's thing rather than shrink the pool in which they actually are able to hide

i'd be cool with doing Black / Titus / Psyche today

I think I would be good with this.

Some good points are being made about Luca probably not being scum

can you give some actual anti-psyche points

It is more vibe than anything, Black and I just finished a game with him(I was scum, Black and Psyche were town).

He came right out of the gate calling people scum, didn't seem too worried about how he came off.

Definitely different than he has been here.

Psyche immediately accused bugspray in this game though..?

[ketchup777]

Hu Tao, while you’re here, can you explain 943?

Sure. So the way I see it, usually scum is on the wagon. So most of the time I want to vote on the wagon after day 1. So I started to look into the wagon

Dannflor (7): Hu Tao, Jacob24, Doctor Drew, Luca Blight, DeltaWave, ketchup777, Gypyx HAMMER

So here I am with only 1 person that's on the wagon that I think is even remotely suspicious. And it's possible that even all 3 scum could be off the wagon.

Votecount 1.FINAL

Votecount 1.FINAL

Dannflor (7):

Hu Tao, Jacob24, Doctor Drew, Luca Blight, DeltaWave, ketchup777, Gypyx

HAMMER

DeltaWave (2):

Dannflor, OutWorldER

ProjEctRy (1):

Black

Hu Tao (1):

iamveryhappy

Not Voting (2):

ProjEctRy, Psyche

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-03 02:13:32)

Mod Notes

None

I'm going to assume at least one scum is on the wagon. I'll dive into that a bit later when I have time.

Is it not likely to be more than one?

From what I’ve grasped, Dann is quite an influential player and seems to be respected. Was he not one of the biggest town threats in this game and so would have been important for scum to get him out at the earliest opportunity?

This post also was a bit suspicious to me, especially when I started to think internally that scum could be off the wagon, they bring up more than 1 being on the wagon. It also felt like they were trying to set up multiple votes by that. It's also why I voted them.

This is why I'm starting to think 2 or POSSIBLY 3 scum were off the wagon. Thoughts on this?

Hmm. I need to delve into Dann‘s wagon more, maybe. This seems like an impressive post but also the Dann wagon was beginning to crumble at one point (after Psyche unvoted to take Dann down to e-4). You seemed to be very eager to get this wagon back on track.

Will think about this properly tomorrow

[ketchup777]

Yeah, what he said

welcome
please help us
3 of our own are dead

[ketchup777]

Like my very first mafia game was on a forum I made for my "clan" that I made on duelingnetwork (a yugioh site) but I usually don't count that.

oh cool (:

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: Psyche destroying Jacob with words

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

It was intended to be somewhat controlling, since I wanted to try and get things under control. I am a very logic-based person so I wanted to really flesh out the arguments and such.

I think the questions you're asking are fine, but you're digging in a bit much. For right now, I'm with Luca in voting for bugspray but I may acknowledge some other notions as to the scum identity.

#30 by jacob24 is notably cautious.
in #88 jacob provides more context. says he wants to "flesh out the arguments and such". it doesn't seem he ever follows through though.
eg in #83 he places blank vote for bugspray

VOTE: Jacob

I'm not really vibing with his reasons for joining the bug wagon. He said he wants to sheep Luca but Luca hasn't even voted there yet. It almost feels like he wanted to hop on before Luca because he knew Luca would likely join. Feels a little opportunistic

Fair enough. Maybe better to say I liked Luca's reasoning. A lot of people had put votes down on Bug without explaining really so I wanted something a little more formal. Post 26 felt good when I read the ISO on him.

#116 black pressures him for the vote, and he responds
#117 expresses that consistency w/ "logic-based" self-characterization derives from fact that luca provided clearer reasoning for bugspray vote. did luca? oh luca was the one that jacob asked follow-up question to. so jacob liked the answer? odd that this wasn't directly expressed until prompted if it was so persuasive. suggests an inclination to maintain flexibility.

UNVOTE:

Don't need/want e-2 on new player immediately. I'd like to hear them out first.

#227/#254 jacob unvote of bugspray and call for delay on dann is more consistent w/ self-characterization, but rather than logic-based and interest in fleshing out arguments, i'm just seeing caution, which can be okay
otoh 254/256/283 considered together are pretty wild and throws my "cautious" read into doubt

227 feels LAMIST to me and I don't think it makes sense for Jacob to get off the bug wagon if he thinks Luca's read is accurate. Feels more like he wants to give Dannflor a chance to save himself

Uh, yeah, if Dannflor is town I want to give them a chance to save themselves. Luca's read could have been confused by the fact that bugs was disinterested and not really into the game. Also that bugs left points to them being more town as I agree with what was said about not replacing out if scum.

This makes me think you may actually be the one working with Dannflor, calling me out for a reasonable play, making it seem like you want me to keep vote on someone you aren't voting yourself.

black is voting for me

Oop, that's right. Forgot they voted after last count. That vote makes me think she's town and you're scum or you're town and she's scum.

i did not

i actually read the game first this time and made sure i was replacing into what i thought was more likely to be a town slot before i replaced in

This post is crazy to me. Clearly you didn’t read close enough. This feels like an incredibly flimsy defense. Despite me earlier doubts, I’m back with Luca and like Black’s thoughts.

VOTE: Dannflor

in this last one jacob is calling someone out for not reading close enough after failing to notice a vote critical to his reads.
but the whole sequence swings between strong attitudes re dann/black that abandons the told-but-not-really-ever-shown thoughtfulness in prior posts.

jacob is fully committed to the dann wagon by #369, even trying to convince me to jump on

VOTE: ketchup

Still think that ketchup seems scummy. Also Lucca looks bad now for their bad ready of bugs/Dann.

but doesn't seem to reel or reorient at all after being wrong. would imagine that someone as anxious as jacob initially coded having a stronger reaction to error feedback here.

have had trouble reading new players in the past, but rough rule of thumb for reading unskilled players is to try ignoring inconsistencies/bs in the content of their posts and focus on consistency of conveyed emotions/attitudes/dispositions with other behavior. a consistent personality read that works over jacob's trajectory seems impossible, which inclines me to interpretation that the trajectory is faked. but maybe as easy to imagine that scum would try harder to more consistently perform the role he explicitly took on. i'm interested in seeing the slot flip but i can't say i have a firm read on it either way.

This seems like a town post

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: Psyche destroying Jacob with words

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

It was intended to be somewhat controlling, since I wanted to try and get things under control. I am a very logic-based person so I wanted to really flesh out the arguments and such.

I think the questions you're asking are fine, but you're digging in a bit much. For right now, I'm with Luca in voting for bugspray but I may acknowledge some other notions as to the scum identity.

#30 by jacob24 is notably cautious.
in #88 jacob provides more context. says he wants to "flesh out the arguments and such". it doesn't seem he ever follows through though.
eg in #83 he places blank vote for bugspray

VOTE: Jacob

I'm not really vibing with his reasons for joining the bug wagon. He said he wants to sheep Luca but Luca hasn't even voted there yet. It almost feels like he wanted to hop on before Luca because he knew Luca would likely join. Feels a little opportunistic

Fair enough. Maybe better to say I liked Luca's reasoning. A lot of people had put votes down on Bug without explaining really so I wanted something a little more formal. Post 26 felt good when I read the ISO on him.

#116 black pressures him for the vote, and he responds
#117 expresses that consistency w/ "logic-based" self-characterization derives from fact that luca provided clearer reasoning for bugspray vote. did luca? oh luca was the one that jacob asked follow-up question to. so jacob liked the answer? odd that this wasn't directly expressed until prompted if it was so persuasive. suggests an inclination to maintain flexibility.

UNVOTE:

Don't need/want e-2 on new player immediately. I'd like to hear them out first.

#227/#254 jacob unvote of bugspray and call for delay on dann is more consistent w/ self-characterization, but rather than logic-based and interest in fleshing out arguments, i'm just seeing caution, which can be okay
otoh 254/256/283 considered together are pretty wild and throws my "cautious" read into doubt

227 feels LAMIST to me and I don't think it makes sense for Jacob to get off the bug wagon if he thinks Luca's read is accurate. Feels more like he wants to give Dannflor a chance to save himself

Uh, yeah, if Dannflor is town I want to give them a chance to save themselves. Luca's read could have been confused by the fact that bugs was disinterested and not really into the game. Also that bugs left points to them being more town as I agree with what was said about not replacing out if scum.

This makes me think you may actually be the one working with Dannflor, calling me out for a reasonable play, making it seem like you want me to keep vote on someone you aren't voting yourself.

black is voting for me

Oop, that's right. Forgot they voted after last count. That vote makes me think she's town and you're scum or you're town and she's scum.

i did not

i actually read the game first this time and made sure i was replacing into what i thought was more likely to be a town slot before i replaced in

This post is crazy to me. Clearly you didn’t read close enough. This feels like an incredibly flimsy defense. Despite me earlier doubts, I’m back with Luca and like Black’s thoughts.

VOTE: Dannflor

in this last one jacob is calling someone out for not reading close enough after failing to notice a vote critical to his reads.
but the whole sequence swings between strong attitudes re dann/black that abandons the told-but-not-really-ever-shown thoughtfulness in prior posts.

jacob is fully committed to the dann wagon by #369, even trying to convince me to jump on

VOTE: ketchup

Still think that ketchup seems scummy. Also Lucca looks bad now for their bad ready of bugs/Dann.

but doesn't seem to reel or reorient at all after being wrong. would imagine that someone as anxious as jacob initially coded having a stronger reaction to error feedback here.

have had trouble reading new players in the past, but rough rule of thumb for reading unskilled players is to try ignoring inconsistencies/bs in the content of their posts and focus on consistency of conveyed emotions/attitudes/dispositions with other behavior. a consistent personality read that works over jacob's trajectory seems impossible, which inclines me to interpretation that the trajectory is faked. but maybe as easy to imagine that scum would try harder to more consistently perform the role he explicitly took on. i'm interested in seeing the slot flip but i can't say i have a firm read on it either way.

This seems like a town post

is it cause it's long or because of something else?

He found some Jacob holes that I missed but that seem perfectly plausible. lots of quotes

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: Psyche destroying Jacob with words

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

It was intended to be somewhat controlling, since I wanted to try and get things under control. I am a very logic-based person so I wanted to really flesh out the arguments and such.

I think the questions you're asking are fine, but you're digging in a bit much. For right now, I'm with Luca in voting for bugspray but I may acknowledge some other notions as to the scum identity.

#30 by jacob24 is notably cautious.
in #88 jacob provides more context. says he wants to "flesh out the arguments and such". it doesn't seem he ever follows through though.
eg in #83 he places blank vote for bugspray

VOTE: Jacob

I'm not really vibing with his reasons for joining the bug wagon. He said he wants to sheep Luca but Luca hasn't even voted there yet. It almost feels like he wanted to hop on before Luca because he knew Luca would likely join. Feels a little opportunistic

Fair enough. Maybe better to say I liked Luca's reasoning. A lot of people had put votes down on Bug without explaining really so I wanted something a little more formal. Post 26 felt good when I read the ISO on him.

#116 black pressures him for the vote, and he responds
#117 expresses that consistency w/ "logic-based" self-characterization derives from fact that luca provided clearer reasoning for bugspray vote. did luca? oh luca was the one that jacob asked follow-up question to. so jacob liked the answer? odd that this wasn't directly expressed until prompted if it was so persuasive. suggests an inclination to maintain flexibility.

UNVOTE:

Don't need/want e-2 on new player immediately. I'd like to hear them out first.

#227/#254 jacob unvote of bugspray and call for delay on dann is more consistent w/ self-characterization, but rather than logic-based and interest in fleshing out arguments, i'm just seeing caution, which can be okay
otoh 254/256/283 considered together are pretty wild and throws my "cautious" read into doubt

227 feels LAMIST to me and I don't think it makes sense for Jacob to get off the bug wagon if he thinks Luca's read is accurate. Feels more like he wants to give Dannflor a chance to save himself

Uh, yeah, if Dannflor is town I want to give them a chance to save themselves. Luca's read could have been confused by the fact that bugs was disinterested and not really into the game. Also that bugs left points to them being more town as I agree with what was said about not replacing out if scum.

This makes me think you may actually be the one working with Dannflor, calling me out for a reasonable play, making it seem like you want me to keep vote on someone you aren't voting yourself.

black is voting for me

Oop, that's right. Forgot they voted after last count. That vote makes me think she's town and you're scum or you're town and she's scum.

i did not

i actually read the game first this time and made sure i was replacing into what i thought was more likely to be a town slot before i replaced in

This post is crazy to me. Clearly you didn’t read close enough. This feels like an incredibly flimsy defense. Despite me earlier doubts, I’m back with Luca and like Black’s thoughts.

VOTE: Dannflor

in this last one jacob is calling someone out for not reading close enough after failing to notice a vote critical to his reads.
but the whole sequence swings between strong attitudes re dann/black that abandons the told-but-not-really-ever-shown thoughtfulness in prior posts.

jacob is fully committed to the dann wagon by #369, even trying to convince me to jump on

VOTE: ketchup

Still think that ketchup seems scummy. Also Lucca looks bad now for their bad ready of bugs/Dann.

but doesn't seem to reel or reorient at all after being wrong. would imagine that someone as anxious as jacob initially coded having a stronger reaction to error feedback here.

have had trouble reading new players in the past, but rough rule of thumb for reading unskilled players is to try ignoring inconsistencies/bs in the content of their posts and focus on consistency of conveyed emotions/attitudes/dispositions with other behavior. a consistent personality read that works over jacob's trajectory seems impossible, which inclines me to interpretation that the trajectory is faked. but maybe as easy to imagine that scum would try harder to more consistently perform the role he explicitly took on. i'm interested in seeing the slot flip but i can't say i have a firm read on it either way.

This seems like a town post

is it cause it's long or because of something else?

He found some Jacob holes that I missed but that seem perfectly plausible. lots of quotes

So town is when you are correct and scum is when you are wrong?

idk, i think the case is good, but it's not really AI for psyche, not until we get more flips at least

I put a lot of thought behind Saturday’s analysis and so am fairly confident in my reads for now, yeah. all could change tho

[ketchup777]

imo the sequence that produced 368 is close to as easy to townread as luca's whole deal

I mean, there's a weird discrepency between how enthusiastic he was about sharing his reads and how a lot of those were just "Yeah this person have done that, other people read it like that, i agree"

i can view ir as ketchup being encouraged in the scum PT to share his reads

It

was

11:11pm on a Thursday when I made that post. Translation: shattered from 4 days of school, probably slightly incoherent

Unfortunately I don’t have access to the scum PT yet, anyone wanna send me a link?

[ketchup777]

honestly i've been getting somewhat weary of ketchup based on his play being like, kinda proscum, and i say that as someone who likes to rates vibes and emotions pretty highly, this is probably not day 2 stuff anyways

Fully agree my Dann vote looks really bad, won’t deny that. But why do you think my Hu Tao push is proscum?

[ketchup777]

honestly i've been getting somewhat weary of ketchup based on his play being like, kinda proscum, and i say that as someone who likes to rates vibes and emotions pretty highly, this is probably not day 2 stuff anyways

Fully agree my Dann vote looks really bad, won’t deny that. But why do you think my Hu Tao push is proscum?

well i can't tell right now if the Hu Tao vote is towny or scummy, i'd need more alignement infos but it certainely doesn't help us to stabilize this game

what i said lies more in the little things of your post by post actions

we can find out by voting hu tao, what happened to wanting blood and drama?

[ketchup777]

@Anyone interested in the Hu Tao wagon

do you think scum!Hu Tao ever kills Deltawave this night when it would feel pretty natural for town to aim on the wagon, and with Delta being dead, Hu Tao would basically be the next in PoE of the Dann pushers? Luca isn't a realistic lim to aim for given his generally high towncred

I really think we can solve her day 3 but for now i'd like a little more time please

Considering she was the one who brought up this whole wagon point first (in 943 )

[ketchup777]

@Anyone interested in the Hu Tao wagon

do you think scum!Hu Tao ever kills Deltawave this night when it would feel pretty natural for town to aim on the wagon, and with Delta being dead, Hu Tao would basically be the next in PoE of the Dann pushers? Luca isn't a realistic lim to aim for given his generally high towncred

I really think we can solve her day 3 but for now i'd like a little more time please

Considering she was the one who brought up this whole wagon point first (in 943 )

,maybe she would shoot for Delta for the mindgames

submitted early

[ketchup777]

I actually think Jacob is an okay vote if I think about it. Out of those that were on the wagon, this is the best vote.

VOTE: Jacob

Based on what you said, you'd be willing to vote here right?

i'm the original scum majority off wagon poster so you just know i said to myself "heck yeah" when reading this, or like, "Mais oui totalement" since i'm french

the Delta kill just never happens with a scum majority on the wagon, even if scum thought they *potentially* faced a PR here, better to let dayplay do it's thing rather than shrink the pool in which they actually are able to hide

i'd be cool with doing Black / Titus / Psyche today

So if you're original premise is this, why vote me here?

Hu Tao feels desperate to get votes off of her here. The Jacob vote feels a little forced as if Hu looked to see what wagon could get more support than hers and voted accordingly. At this point Jacob is just non-existent and probably site flaking

I don't think there is much solving coming from Hu and that's concerning. She spent the majority of D1 on Dann and tried to keep others on him when they considered moving elsewhere. So far D2 she's just defending herself. I think she could be scum

Yeah I fully agree with this
sorry hu tao


mind you we have a new person playing the afk strat rn

@outworlder@outworlder

[ketchup777]

What happens if day 2 runs out without 6 votes being reached? Does highest person at the end die or does no-one die

[ketchup777]

30. An execution occurs when a majority (>50%) of players vote to execute someone. If no majority is reached by the deadline, no one will be executed.

Oops thanks (:

[ketchup777]

I don't know guys... I think Titus is too obvious, too 'perfect' of a vote, too easy for the mafia to shade. 1079 reminds me eerily of Bugspray's 165 . I feel like a replacement mafia would put in more effort and not seem so obviously low-effort/shady

[ketchup777]

I am liking my company on the Hu Tao wagon a lot more than the Titus wagon

[ketchup777]

ok pipe dream scumteam : Black / Project / Psyche who are trying to push us towards killing on the wagon

where do you think the scum were in relation to the dann wagon then?

i think dann's wagon going through with no real counterwagon is probably indicative of at least 1 or 2 being on his elim

dann's wagon going through is indicative of it being town and no one else really being accused, maybe scum hopped on, maybe not,

like the fact is that pretty much everyone actively playing was on it, apart from like, you

, which i guess could prompt us towards looking for scum in those hiding in those low post counts

one could even say that the short lived project wagon could be indicative of his evil intents

i'm not sure i'm liking the dismissive-ness here, especially since the bolded actively supports what I was saying

I mean, i think you misunderstood me

if town is pushing town

and that no real other wagons are emerging

is scum even encouraged to go out there and show themselves?

otherwise for the dismissiveness maybe i'm getting a ltitle bit excited, ok that's fair

i understand the logic here but on the flip-side, if you're scum than it's no real or perceived to put out a scumread/vote on a player who is being universally SR'd by townies, especially if the mislim in question is considered to be a fairly good player

-SNIP-

there are two flaws in this logic

a) were I scum here, I'd have two partners, both of whom would also have to OK the kill on DW

b) i'm not that bad at this game

If Jacob were one of your scum teammates, I imagine he didn't have much say in the nightkill, probably just saying to do whatever as he hadn't been around towards the end of Day 1. Anyway,

I didn't say that you were the one who suggested the Delta kill, only that it looked convenient for you. Why did you assume that you were the one who came up with the suggestion to kill Delta?

One of your teamies could have suggested it to you, you OK it and Jacob mehs it. Did you let on too much?

[ketchup777]

Also, the fact that multiple people have pointed out Psyche is/was kind of coasting, yet Psyche still hasn't caved in to voting anyone since bugs yet, suggests to me they are honest townie. Mafia!Psyche might want to just vote somewhere (with any of the reasoning that Psyche has provided) to get the spotlight off them. Psyche doesn't mind about the spotlight because they know they're town and if people don't get that, well, that's on them.

[ketchup777]

would scum read but not scum read because of vig: Drew
TR: meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, Luca
more of a TL: Psyche, Titus nee. Project
some TL: Black
some sus: Gypyx
mafia: Jackson nee. Jacob, OutWorld, Hu Tao

[ketchup777]

Gyp replacing in to Dann being at 5 votes already by post #269 makes me feel more that 3 scum were at play than 2. (as in, Kyuoko didn't pick up her town PM rather than mafia PM)

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: quote

i'm not putting too much stock in the DeltaWave NKA cuz it could've happened for a million different reasons,

from someone thinking her reads were a genuine threat to them

all the way to scum thinking she was a pr for whatever reason

Ok so looking at Delta's ISO:

VOTE: Ketchup777

I can elaborate but just look at the ISO and tell me I'm wrong.

started off by accusing me

Initial thoughts -

Hu Tao - I get a town vibe from these posts.

Gypyx - I'm not sure yet.

ProjEctRy - A lot of filler. Neutral leaning sus.

Dannflor - 228 is so, so, so bad. Criticism of Drew seems forced. 277 is the kind of OMGUS I don't like. Drew being defensive as cited in 315 is not a scumtell at all. Everyone wants to stay alive no matter the wincon.

bugspray - The infamous multitasker poster. Let's face it, it was a stupid post, but was it scummy? A town PR would never out themselves like that. I could see a whacked out VT doing that, though.

Luca Blight - I don't really like the whole "I found the scumteam on post 24" stuff but this seems like it's coming from overexcited town than scum. It's just too much attention to draw on page 2. It's a bold move for scum to pick fights and make enemies that early in the game. OTOH, the reads are based on thin logic. But then again, that's what town does. Will say null town. Points deducted for not recognizing my meme. The confidence in 130, presuming it's Luca!Scum and they're trying to get a miselim on BG, seems unlikely. With BG almost being limmed I wouldn't expect scum to take such a strong position because it would get them trouble later after the flip.

Jacob24 - I can't tell you exactly why, but Post 88 didn't rub me the right way. Overall a sideliner.

iamveryhappy - I get the impression that they are staying close to the sidelines despite participating in the discussion. I think this is scummy.

ketchup777 - Newbie town probably.

Psyche - Overall I like the posts.

DeltaWave - Obvscum

Black - Not sure at this time.

Doctor Drew - Seems to ask a lot of questions without providing a lot of opinions. Not really liking that.

OutWorldER - Shading bugspray for the multitasker post isn't entirely unjustified but the reasoning on #85 seems like there's a hard attempt to justify that vote. The same thing kind of goes for #94.

VOTE: Daan

then after unvoting me, Delta sussed Project, Jacob, OutWorldEr, Drew, Dann and iavh. a lot of susses, the last 3 of which now seem/are innocent. I agree we don't want to run mind games but in case we decide to look deeper, these seem to be Delta's enemies.

Dann/OutWorld/someone else mkes sense to me. Maybe iavh

only you, OutWorldEr, remain in Delta's trio read. Convenient you try to get us not to worry too much about the reasoning for Delta's death?

I assumed because of the post I snipped, which specifically called me out as the one remaining person in Delta's solve who hadn't flipped. I thought you were implying that I had killed Delta out of fear for her read on me, to which I countered that were I to be scum, then I'd have two other partners who would also have to OK that fear-kill, on a player who had a fair share of scumreads going into D2.

Ok sure I'll give you benefit of the doubt for now. But I never said that you were the one to suggest the idea of killing Delta. It seems like you misread what I said where a town might see the ambiguity and consider both possible cases (Outworld the suggester vs Outworld the oohilikethisideasureletsdoiter).

[ketchup777]

I don't know guys... I think Titus is too obvious, too 'perfect' of a vote, too easy for the mafia to shade. 1079 reminds me eerily of Bugspray's 165 . I feel like a replacement mafia would put in more effort and not seem so obviously low-effort/shady

Sure, but they could also just be a wolf. Do you have any way of knowing the difference?

Nope I'm just trying my best ):

[ketchup777]

mafia: Jackson nee. Jacob, OutWorld, Hu Tao

Is the read on me based on my predecessor, or literally me

You're a sly rascal it says so in your signature (:

Mostly your predecessor atm, haven't formed an opinion either way on your posts yet.

The Jacob part of 1117 might explain some of my reasoning for thinking your slot is not an oh-so-innocent townie

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: quote

i'm not putting too much stock in the DeltaWave NKA cuz it could've happened for a million different reasons,

from someone thinking her reads were a genuine threat to them

all the way to scum thinking she was a pr for whatever reason

Ok so looking at Delta's ISO:

VOTE: Ketchup777

I can elaborate but just look at the ISO and tell me I'm wrong.

started off by accusing me

Initial thoughts -

Hu Tao - I get a town vibe from these posts.

Gypyx - I'm not sure yet.

ProjEctRy - A lot of filler. Neutral leaning sus.

Dannflor - 228 is so, so, so bad. Criticism of Drew seems forced. 277 is the kind of OMGUS I don't like. Drew being defensive as cited in 315 is not a scumtell at all. Everyone wants to stay alive no matter the wincon.

bugspray - The infamous multitasker poster. Let's face it, it was a stupid post, but was it scummy? A town PR would never out themselves like that. I could see a whacked out VT doing that, though.

Luca Blight - I don't really like the whole "I found the scumteam on post 24" stuff but this seems like it's coming from overexcited town than scum. It's just too much attention to draw on page 2. It's a bold move for scum to pick fights and make enemies that early in the game. OTOH, the reads are based on thin logic. But then again, that's what town does. Will say null town. Points deducted for not recognizing my meme. The confidence in 130, presuming it's Luca!Scum and they're trying to get a miselim on BG, seems unlikely. With BG almost being limmed I wouldn't expect scum to take such a strong position because it would get them trouble later after the flip.

Jacob24 - I can't tell you exactly why, but Post 88 didn't rub me the right way. Overall a sideliner.

iamveryhappy - I get the impression that they are staying close to the sidelines despite participating in the discussion. I think this is scummy.

ketchup777 - Newbie town probably.

Psyche - Overall I like the posts.

DeltaWave - Obvscum

Black - Not sure at this time.

Doctor Drew - Seems to ask a lot of questions without providing a lot of opinions. Not really liking that.

OutWorldER - Shading bugspray for the multitasker post isn't entirely unjustified but the reasoning on #85 seems like there's a hard attempt to justify that vote. The same thing kind of goes for #94.

VOTE: Daan

then after unvoting me, Delta sussed Project, Jacob, OutWorldEr, Drew, Dann and iavh. a lot of susses, the last 3 of which now seem/are innocent. I agree we don't want to run mind games but in case we decide to look deeper, these seem to be Delta's enemies.

Dann/OutWorld/someone else mkes sense to me. Maybe iavh

only you, OutWorldEr, remain in Delta's trio read. Convenient you try to get us not to worry too much about the reasoning for Delta's death?

I assumed because of the post I snipped, which specifically called me out as the one remaining person in Delta's solve who hadn't flipped. I thought you were implying that I had killed Delta out of fear for her read on me, to which I countered that were I to be scum, then I'd have two other partners who would also have to OK that fear-kill, on a player who had a fair share of scumreads going into D2.

Ok sure I'll give you benefit of the doubt for now. But I never said that you were the one to suggest the idea of killing Delta. It seems like you misread what I said where a town might see the ambiguity and consider both possible cases (Outworld the suggester vs Outworld the oohilikethisideasureletsdoiter).

This is how I imagine it went down in the scum PT.

Hu Tao: hey guys do you know what would be fun
Hu Tao:
Hu Tao:
Hu Tao: killing Delta
Hu Tao:
Hu Tao:
Hu Tao: Delta also kinda suspects you OutWorld so let's do some double bluff stuff and I can raise a point about scum tending to shoot off the wagon so we should look off the wagon, etc... this will throw them into chaos! make them doubt everything they've ever known! If we're lucky we hit Delta being a power role as well, and they won't be protected.
OutWorld: eh sure I would never have thought of this. Crazy, but it could work
-----
*prod*
Jacob: sorry I've been really busy right now. I'll let you guys handle this.
Hu Tao: perfect, agreed I'll make the kill as the least sus is on me right now? no need to use juggernaut yet {if one of them is jug idk)
OutWorld: ok. this'll be fun!
Jacob: ---

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: quote

i'm not putting too much stock in the DeltaWave NKA cuz it could've happened for a million different reasons,

from someone thinking her reads were a genuine threat to them

all the way to scum thinking she was a pr for whatever reason

Ok so looking at Delta's ISO:

VOTE: Ketchup777

I can elaborate but just look at the ISO and tell me I'm wrong.

started off by accusing me

Initial thoughts -

Hu Tao - I get a town vibe from these posts.

Gypyx - I'm not sure yet.

ProjEctRy - A lot of filler. Neutral leaning sus.

Dannflor - 228 is so, so, so bad. Criticism of Drew seems forced. 277 is the kind of OMGUS I don't like. Drew being defensive as cited in 315 is not a scumtell at all. Everyone wants to stay alive no matter the wincon.

bugspray - The infamous multitasker poster. Let's face it, it was a stupid post, but was it scummy? A town PR would never out themselves like that. I could see a whacked out VT doing that, though.

Luca Blight - I don't really like the whole "I found the scumteam on post 24" stuff but this seems like it's coming from overexcited town than scum. It's just too much attention to draw on page 2. It's a bold move for scum to pick fights and make enemies that early in the game. OTOH, the reads are based on thin logic. But then again, that's what town does. Will say null town. Points deducted for not recognizing my meme. The confidence in 130, presuming it's Luca!Scum and they're trying to get a miselim on BG, seems unlikely. With BG almost being limmed I wouldn't expect scum to take such a strong position because it would get them trouble later after the flip.

Jacob24 - I can't tell you exactly why, but Post 88 didn't rub me the right way. Overall a sideliner.

iamveryhappy - I get the impression that they are staying close to the sidelines despite participating in the discussion. I think this is scummy.

ketchup777 - Newbie town probably.

Psyche - Overall I like the posts.

DeltaWave - Obvscum

Black - Not sure at this time.

Doctor Drew - Seems to ask a lot of questions without providing a lot of opinions. Not really liking that.

OutWorldER - Shading bugspray for the multitasker post isn't entirely unjustified but the reasoning on #85 seems like there's a hard attempt to justify that vote. The same thing kind of goes for #94.

VOTE: Daan

then after unvoting me, Delta sussed Project, Jacob, OutWorldEr, Drew, Dann and iavh. a lot of susses, the last 3 of which now seem/are innocent. I agree we don't want to run mind games but in case we decide to look deeper, these seem to be Delta's enemies.

Dann/OutWorld/someone else mkes sense to me. Maybe iavh

only you, OutWorldEr, remain in Delta's trio read. Convenient you try to get us not to worry too much about the reasoning for Delta's death?

I assumed because of the post I snipped, which specifically called me out as the one remaining person in Delta's solve who hadn't flipped. I thought you were implying that I had killed Delta out of fear for her read on me, to which I countered that were I to be scum, then I'd have two other partners who would also have to OK that fear-kill, on a player who had a fair share of scumreads going into D2.

Ok sure I'll give you benefit of the doubt for now.

But I never said that you were the one to suggest the idea of killing Delta. It seems like you misread what I said

where a town might see the ambiguity and consider both possible cases (Outworld the suggester vs Outworld the oohilikethisideasureletsdoiter).

How else was I supposed to read the post? I don't understand what you're trying to get at. You all but directly insinuated that me saying I wasn't putting much stock in NKA was an attempt to deflect from me being the only person in Delta's solve who hadn't flipped. That only makes sense if you think I was the most responsible for the decision to kill Delta.

Someone could have suggested it to you on your behalf though.
But maybe I need to look at this again in the morning
Goodnight!

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: quote

i'm not putting too much stock in the DeltaWave NKA cuz it could've happened for a million different reasons,

from someone thinking her reads were a genuine threat to them

all the way to scum thinking she was a pr for whatever reason

Ok so looking at Delta's ISO:

VOTE: Ketchup777

I can elaborate but just look at the ISO and tell me I'm wrong.

started off by accusing me

Initial thoughts -

Hu Tao - I get a town vibe from these posts.

Gypyx - I'm not sure yet.

ProjEctRy - A lot of filler. Neutral leaning sus.

Dannflor - 228 is so, so, so bad. Criticism of Drew seems forced. 277 is the kind of OMGUS I don't like. Drew being defensive as cited in 315 is not a scumtell at all. Everyone wants to stay alive no matter the wincon.

bugspray - The infamous multitasker poster. Let's face it, it was a stupid post, but was it scummy? A town PR would never out themselves like that. I could see a whacked out VT doing that, though.

Luca Blight - I don't really like the whole "I found the scumteam on post 24" stuff but this seems like it's coming from overexcited town than scum. It's just too much attention to draw on page 2. It's a bold move for scum to pick fights and make enemies that early in the game. OTOH, the reads are based on thin logic. But then again, that's what town does. Will say null town. Points deducted for not recognizing my meme. The confidence in 130, presuming it's Luca!Scum and they're trying to get a miselim on BG, seems unlikely. With BG almost being limmed I wouldn't expect scum to take such a strong position because it would get them trouble later after the flip.

Jacob24 - I can't tell you exactly why, but Post 88 didn't rub me the right way. Overall a sideliner.

iamveryhappy - I get the impression that they are staying close to the sidelines despite participating in the discussion. I think this is scummy.

ketchup777 - Newbie town probably.

Psyche - Overall I like the posts.

DeltaWave - Obvscum

Black - Not sure at this time.

Doctor Drew - Seems to ask a lot of questions without providing a lot of opinions. Not really liking that.

OutWorldER - Shading bugspray for the multitasker post isn't entirely unjustified but the reasoning on #85 seems like there's a hard attempt to justify that vote. The same thing kind of goes for #94.

VOTE: Daan

then after unvoting me, Delta sussed Project, Jacob, OutWorldEr, Drew, Dann and iavh. a lot of susses, the last 3 of which now seem/are innocent. I agree we don't want to run mind games but in case we decide to look deeper, these seem to be Delta's enemies.

Dann/OutWorld/someone else mkes sense to me. Maybe iavh

only you, OutWorldEr, remain in Delta's trio read. Convenient you try to get us not to worry too much about the reasoning for Delta's death?

I assumed because of the post I snipped, which specifically called me out as the one remaining person in Delta's solve who hadn't flipped. I thought you were implying that I had killed Delta out of fear for her read on me, to which I countered that were I to be scum, then I'd have two other partners who would also have to OK that fear-kill, on a player who had a fair share of scumreads going into D2.

Ok sure I'll give you benefit of the doubt for now. But I never said that you were the one to suggest the idea of killing Delta. It seems like you misread what I said where a town might see the ambiguity and consider both possible cases (Outworld the suggester vs Outworld the oohilikethisideasureletsdoiter).

This is how I imagine it went down in the scum PT.

Hu Tao: hey guys do you know what would be fun
Hu Tao:
Hu Tao:
Hu Tao: killing Delta
Hu Tao:
Hu Tao:
Hu Tao: Delta also kinda suspects you OutWorld so let's do some double bluff stuff and I can raise a point about scum tending to shoot off the wagon so we should look off the wagon, etc... this will throw them into chaos! make them doubt everything they've ever known! If we're lucky we hit Delta being a power role as well, and they won't be protected.
OutWorld: eh sure I would never have thought of this. Crazy, but it could work
-----
*prod*
Jacob: sorry I've been really busy right now. I'll let you guys handle this.
Hu Tao: perfect, agreed I'll make the kill as the least sus is on me right now? no need to use juggernaut yet {if one of them is jug idk)
OutWorld: ok. this'll be fun!
Jacob: ---

Totally accurate followup

Night 2:

Hu Tao: Jacoooooooob. You there?
Outworld: you gotta do something
---
Jacob: bjhrfvxilkdz imma vote ketchup sbdcyuzg i'm so hungover right now jkfxhjcvkxilf
---
Thomith:*Please welcome JacksonVirgo!*

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: quote

i'm not putting too much stock in the DeltaWave NKA cuz it could've happened for a million different reasons,

from someone thinking her reads were a genuine threat to them

all the way to scum thinking she was a pr for whatever reason

Ok so looking at Delta's ISO:

VOTE: Ketchup777

I can elaborate but just look at the ISO and tell me I'm wrong.

started off by accusing me

Initial thoughts -

Hu Tao - I get a town vibe from these posts.

Gypyx - I'm not sure yet.

ProjEctRy - A lot of filler. Neutral leaning sus.

Dannflor - 228 is so, so, so bad. Criticism of Drew seems forced. 277 is the kind of OMGUS I don't like. Drew being defensive as cited in 315 is not a scumtell at all. Everyone wants to stay alive no matter the wincon.

bugspray - The infamous multitasker poster. Let's face it, it was a stupid post, but was it scummy? A town PR would never out themselves like that. I could see a whacked out VT doing that, though.

Luca Blight - I don't really like the whole "I found the scumteam on post 24" stuff but this seems like it's coming from overexcited town than scum. It's just too much attention to draw on page 2. It's a bold move for scum to pick fights and make enemies that early in the game. OTOH, the reads are based on thin logic. But then again, that's what town does. Will say null town. Points deducted for not recognizing my meme. The confidence in 130, presuming it's Luca!Scum and they're trying to get a miselim on BG, seems unlikely. With BG almost being limmed I wouldn't expect scum to take such a strong position because it would get them trouble later after the flip.

Jacob24 - I can't tell you exactly why, but Post 88 didn't rub me the right way. Overall a sideliner.

iamveryhappy - I get the impression that they are staying close to the sidelines despite participating in the discussion. I think this is scummy.

ketchup777 - Newbie town probably.

Psyche - Overall I like the posts.

DeltaWave - Obvscum

Black - Not sure at this time.

Doctor Drew - Seems to ask a lot of questions without providing a lot of opinions. Not really liking that.

OutWorldER - Shading bugspray for the multitasker post isn't entirely unjustified but the reasoning on #85 seems like there's a hard attempt to justify that vote. The same thing kind of goes for #94.

VOTE: Daan

then after unvoting me, Delta sussed Project, Jacob, OutWorldEr, Drew, Dann and iavh. a lot of susses, the last 3 of which now seem/are innocent. I agree we don't want to run mind games but in case we decide to look deeper, these seem to be Delta's enemies.

Dann/OutWorld/someone else mkes sense to me. Maybe iavh

only you, OutWorldEr, remain in Delta's trio read. Convenient you try to get us not to worry too much about the reasoning for Delta's death?

I assumed because of the post I snipped, which specifically called me out as the one remaining person in Delta's solve who hadn't flipped. I thought you were implying that I had killed Delta out of fear for her read on me, to which I countered that were I to be scum, then I'd have two other partners who would also have to OK that fear-kill, on a player who had a fair share of scumreads going into D2.

Ok sure I'll give you benefit of the doubt for now. But I never said that you were the one to suggest the idea of killing Delta. It seems like you misread what I said where a town might see the ambiguity and consider both possible cases (Outworld the suggester vs Outworld the oohilikethisideasureletsdoiter).

This is how I imagine it went down in the scum PT.

Hu Tao: hey guys do you know what would be fun
Hu Tao:
Hu Tao:
Hu Tao: killing Delta
Hu Tao:
Hu Tao:
Hu Tao: Delta also kinda suspects you OutWorld so let's do some double bluff stuff and I can raise a point about scum tending to shoot off the wagon so we should look off the wagon, etc... this will throw them into chaos! make them doubt everything they've ever known! If we're lucky we hit Delta being a power role as well, and they won't be protected.
OutWorld: eh sure I would never have thought of this. Crazy, but it could work
-----
*prod*
Jacob: sorry I've been really busy right now. I'll let you guys handle this.
Hu Tao: perfect, agreed I'll make the kill as the least sus is on me right now? no need to use juggernaut yet {if one of them is jug idk)
OutWorld: ok. this'll be fun!
Jacob: ---

Totally accurate followup

Night 2:

Hu Tao: Jacoooooooob. You there?
Outworld: you gotta do something
---
Jacob: bjhrfvxilkdz imma vote ketchup sbdcyuzg i'm so hungover right now jkfxhjcvkxilf
---
Thomith:*Please welcome JacksonVirgo!*

Start of day 2**

[ketchup777]

Jacob24: Currently inactive. If it wasn't for the surprise evidence I found against Hu Tao above in 1113 , my vote would still be on him.

Some of his reads seem to be very volatile

, and his singular post of day 2 accusing me without any evidence was shallow and unsatisfactory, showing the disengagement I might expect from a mafia member. Then to the second part of his most recent post,
"Also Lucca looks bad now for their bad ready of bugs/Dann."

--snip--

Also how did I go from being townread in 188 to being one of Jacob's top 2 suspects in 371 ? These were only 9h19mins apart

! Talking of 371, two things:
-->

He sheeps my reads format to seem like he is producing a lot of content, when in reality he does not give any reasoning for any of his reads so it would be easy to low-effort a reads list based on vibes.

-->

My list (for those who care):

This is a strange thing to say. All townies should care for some nice reads. The only people who wouldn't care so much (excl. disengaged townies) would be the mafia...

If only I could vote for 2 people at once...

What makes volatile behaviour scummy?

Also do you think Town cannot change their reads super fast?

This seems like projecting actually

.

Mhm, but how can you differentiate between he is just not confident vs something that the mafia would say.

post 30 makes it seem as though Jacob's reads will be few and far between, carefully considered and unlikely to change suddenly. admit this wasn't one of my strongest points tho perhaps

don't understand what you mean here

Not confident it feels he might accompany with a message of like "they may be far from perfect at the moment but here's my attempt at reads". The wording he used feels as if he almost unwilling tossed out these half-baked without-any-reasoning reads because he felt pressured to do so. He wasn't concerned with solving who was town but rather pleasing those going after him

[ketchup777]

Thomith:*Please welcome JacksonVirgo!*

I confirm, this is what happened

WE GOT HIM

[ketchup777]

Yeah, what he said

welcome
please help us
3 of our own are dead

Mostly your predecessor atm, haven't formed an opinion either way on your posts yet.

For someone who commented that when I first replaced in, not commenting on a single thing I've done is strange and I'm almost positive there would be something to comment on if you wanted to

You have like 20 posts half of which are just pleasantries but ok I'll try (then I really must sleep...)

1220 does look positively upon you wanting to read over the game, but that doesn't confirm you one way or the other.
1226 seems son the surface impressive but it's getting to the point where everyone's produced something impressive at some point or another. Mafia!Jackson knows something big is needed to turn the tide, and 1226 would be a good way to start off. On the other hand, Town!Jackson maybe just wants to try show how his slot's been hard done by. Same conclusion, different alignments :/

really nothing else to look at yet.

[ketchup777]

Jacob24: Currently inactive. If it wasn't for the surprise evidence I found against Hu Tao above in 1113 , my vote would still be on him.

Some of his reads seem to be very volatile

, and his singular post of day 2 accusing me without any evidence was shallow and unsatisfactory, showing the disengagement I might expect from a mafia member. Then to the second part of his most recent post,
"Also Lucca looks bad now for their bad ready of bugs/Dann."

--snip--

Also how did I go from being townread in 188 to being one of Jacob's top 2 suspects in 371 ? These were only 9h19mins apart

! Talking of 371, two things:
-->

He sheeps my reads format to seem like he is producing a lot of content, when in reality he does not give any reasoning for any of his reads so it would be easy to low-effort a reads list based on vibes.

-->

My list (for those who care):

This is a strange thing to say. All townies should care for some nice reads. The only people who wouldn't care so much (excl. disengaged townies) would be the mafia...

If only I could vote for 2 people at once...

What makes volatile behaviour scummy?

Also do you think Town cannot change their reads super fast?

This seems like projecting actually

.

Mhm, but how can you differentiate between he is just not confident vs something that the mafia would say.

post 30 makes it seem as though Jacob's reads will be few and far between, carefully considered and unlikely to change suddenly. admit this wasn't one of my strongest points tho perhaps

don't understand what you mean here

Not confident it feels he might accompany with a message of like "they may be far from perfect at the moment but here's my attempt at reads". The wording he used feels as if he almost unwilling tossed out these half-baked without-any-reasoning reads because he felt pressured to do so. He wasn't concerned with solving who was town but rather pleasing those going after him

Blue -> That's the opposite of volatile ftr, what do you feel makes this scummy?
Red -> Just an observation, don't worry about it
Pink -> You're quite unfairly assuming people should play in a particular way, or how people would express their insecurities.
Green -> You never commented on this

Blue --> Jacob makes it seem as if he won't be volatile, but he turns out being volatile. I might be misusing volatile, so I'll rephrase. 30 gives slow and confident voter vibes. Jacob actually sends out a ton of different and underjustified votes, which was surprising.
Pink--> Sure. I'm trying to pick apart the language, wrong or right, because if it stands out to me it might be worth mentioning. I know people are different. But the mafia exist out there somewhere...
Green--> Wasn't green essentially the same point as blue or did I misunderstand

[ketchup777]

1226 is just the catchup post, which is typical for people who replace in. I'm more talking about things like my reasonings on Gypyx, or my thought process etc.

It feels like you were doing busywork with 1206 and then didn't follow up, even to a small degree

1206 was just a harmless greeting intended to be funny

I sleep