Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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What I recommend we do is remove your ability from the game, implosion.
We can suggest that someone in the town is a 'good target' and hope a vig or somesuch kills him. You cycle the town-destroying ability to that same antitown 'good target'. Unless an antitown faction has control of a protection ability for tonight, that guy has a pretty good chance of dying the same night you kill him, so your bad-for-town ability goes away night 1 instead of bouncing from player to player and causing us harm.
I see a fullclaim of your ability as an antitown thing, scum know more about the setup and will be able to manipulate the ability's mechanics more easily than we can ."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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No, cyclings resolve after nightkills. Our nominee would have to have started the game with any bullet proof abilities. Protown thing to do in that circumstance might be to say so, for the nominee, probs.implosion wrote:I was thinking something similar to what pops said. Essentially, today we nominate someone scummy (separate from the lynch). Tonight, everyone with an ability that will hurt the town in the long run gives it to our nominee. The next night, assuming there's at least one vig ability in the game, whoever has that vig ability shoots the nominee. It has to happen the next night after everything is passed because of the action resolution order. Downsides: there are several ways it could get screwed up (target getting passed a bulletproof ability, mafia getting passed a doctor ability, some kind of bus driver moving everything to someone else).
Another thing I was thinking is that we might be able to just massclaim on day two. Mafia won't be able to kill anyone with a useful power role, and it'll give us some insight into what's in play. Oh, and any investigative roles can claim results without risk of their abilities being lost. I think it would also help the town more than the mafia because the mafia can share what roles they've gotten between each other, so they'll already have info about what's in play.
Also, a fullclaim from me is probably inevitable. But we'll see.
Oh, right, it is dangerous to give anti town roles to the person we find scummiest. Maybe we do this for the person we find towniest? And there's always roleblocks.
Please do not reveal your role unless it's best for the town. Please don't get into the "omg funyay normal game IMJESTER ojk but I dont have a trackin ability I pinkyswear MAWFIA IS FUN" mode that I see people do in large games.
The mafia's nightkill doesn't give them any ability to screw with this.EtherealCookie wrote:>Best Mafia Performance
Bomb him now!
Joking aside, I'm confused with the plan of nominating someone scummy and passing all anti-town abilities to him. The scum will see our discussion, and know who we are passing it to. If they have the ability to do so, they can disrupt our plan of killing the player. Furthermore, if we're passing it to whoever seems the most scummy, and they are actually scum, and manage to survive, then we've given them a bunch of anti-town abilities that they'll be able to use. We could end up severely screwing ourselves over. Why would we want to do something like that?
Vote: Parama
RVS vote.
Only things they can have are a cyclable busdrive or a cyclable doc protect. And it depends on how that cyclable busdrive works, if the cyclable busdrive busdrives ALL the things that come at that players slot, then the kill would be redirected and the bad powers would be redirected, so some poor soul will drag those powers to the grave with him.
If you want to imagine horrible power roles ruining this plan, imagine good ones too. Tracker figures out who docs or busdrives the target, eh? (he'd have to sort it out from the vig, but it shouldn't be so hard.)
Also, if the mafia screw with this process, we just do it again. Mafia are forced to cycle their abilities away, making it very unlikely that they have a doc or busdrive ability both N1 AND N2.
To quoteThe Score, "This is a very big pay-off for very acceptable risks"."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Figuring out how to create advantage within the setup is part of theme games, even normal games somewhat. Where's the spirit? You keep mentioning vague "bad things will happen, for sure, i just don't know what they are or why they will happen", and that's your only argument.
I'm assuming these abilities are forced-use. If not that's why we're not on the same page, but that's the impression I got from Implosion. If it's a forced use ability, it matters very little whether it passes to a scum or a townie. It's still going to screw things over, but its targetting when used by a townie will slightly soften the blow. The possibility of permanently removing a negative force-use ability from the game permanently greatly outweighs the chance it's directed a little more darkly for one night. And that's just if the guy somehow dodges a N1 nightkill and a N2 roleblock. And is scum, none of us are perfect scumhunters.
I only briefly considered the possibility of doing this to a townie, it definitely should be passed to an antitown player, who should subsequently be removed from the game along with those bad abilities.
Aren't you folks trying to win?
And come on now WrathChild, it looks like you're skimming the thread right off the bat.Ioriginally had the idea of nominating scummy players and vigging them, Implosion just repeated it to flesh it out.
The concept of vigging a protown player was a direct response to your suggestion that giving the antitown roles to the most antitown player is like giving the Joker a tank. (it isn't though.) It wasn't a response to Implosion, I skipped quoting you."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Traditionally town has more PRs.implosion wrote:RVS = random voting stage. An RVS vote is a vote during the RVS, generally for very weak reasons.
Anyway... part of the reason I like this plan is because my ability won't help mafiaat allif it's eliminated in this way.
In fact, I'm claiming because there's no reason not to, and it's likely inevitably going to happen at some point today.
I have a treestump ability. For today, I'm voteless and can't be lynched. I'm worried that if this survives to lylo, it could screw everything up if a townie has it. Or if a mafia member has it for that matter. However, mafia having it for one day wouldn't really affect anything.
The more I think about it though, the less merit I think the plan has. Just because we don't know what roles are in play, so there are a lot of possibilities for error, and there are likely some negative roles that mafia could use if eliminated like this. Plus, I'd guess that most abilities in play are positive for the town. Those with such abilities obviously shouldn't claim them until tomorrow - but there are probably things like investigating/protection/vigging that are in play. I think the best thing to do might be to just pay attention to who has abilities like this, and make sure that at some point the abilities get eliminated. It might be a bit trickier with mine since it can't be gotten rid of through lynching.
Discuss."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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that's vigging a player, not vigging a townieWrathChild wrote:
Highlighted section is where you suggest vigging a townie that I referred to.popsofctown wrote:What I recommend we do is remove your ability from the game, implosion.
You cycle the town-destroying ability to that same antitown 'good target'. Unless an antitown faction has control of a protection ability for tonight, that guy has a pretty good chance of dying the same night you kill him, so your bad-for-town ability goes away night 1 instead of bouncing from player to player and causing us harm.We can suggest that someone in the town is a 'good target' and hope a vig or somesuch kills him.
I see a fullclaim of your ability as an antitown thing, scum know more about the setup and will be able to manipulate the ability's mechanics more easily than we can ."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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anyway, there's the antitown role isn't nearly as bad as i thought it was.
The cycling mechanic alleviates most of the pain in an endgame situation. You cycle treestump to the guy you dont feel like lynching. He'll be unlynchable. Oh, unlynchable doesn't matter because you refuse to vote for him and it's hard to get votes in endgames. You guys go lynch scum if it's anything but LyLo."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Vote: implosion. No harm in confirming this."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Is that the way unlynchable mechanics are normally handled? It sounds rather convenient.
Im aware that it ruins LyLo implosion, but this is a large game, and the ability has little drawback UNTIL LyLo. Im not sure if the ability is bad enough to try to remove it from the game, there are some risks involved.
@muh: Look on the back of the potato, it says "come play mafia with me". Make some real posts."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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ok.
Real posts, when i use the term at least, are posts that move you towards your wincon substantially, and make you a readable player. Scum want to be unreadable, and are more likely to post one liners like you are doing.
What are the risks of trying to kill implosion's ability? Is the worst case scenario really a mafia doc saving the guy? A vigilante would miss getting a kill that night, but he wasn't guaranteed to shoot correctly anyhow. While this treestump ability makes us autolose LyLo, so it is the equivalent of an entire player, guaranteed.
I'm thinking maybe we ought to remove implosion's ability from the game. If you're town, please argue for or against that without appeals to fear, mkay?"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Magna, the stump ability, specifically, is not very bad early. It makes the controller voteless. It's harmless UNTIL endgame.
and im not reading a mini"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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not an entire one, give highlights. Sorry, thought i might have to shorten that because of POS but i dont."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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not seeing it at all really. Chance of a living vig goes down along with the chance of a mafia doc. But I think the chance of a living vig is going to fall more rapidly.
Wait... are you using them to confirm players with that third night thing? I guess I get it, but letting that stump thing stick around seems like playing with fire. Can you start trying to remove it after just one cycle of confirmation?"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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well let's skip the argument and just limit it to the treestump. I have a hard time thinking of antitown abilities that are cyclable. Governor maybe. That's the same as stump, safe early on, dangerous late game.quadz08 wrote:
Yes it is.pops wrote:giving the antitown roles to the most antitown player is like giving the Joker a tank. (it isn't though.)
You give the scummiest player roles that can hurt the town, and he's GOING TO USE THEM TO HURT THE TOWN. Very simple. Yes, it means we can get rid of all of them in one fell swoop, but that's assuming that NONE of the scum got a roleblock, a doctor, a redirector, or anything of that ilk, which I find unlikely.
I do think that getting rid of anti-town roles, including the treestump, is a good idea (obviously); however, I definitely feel it's too risky to attach all the anti-town roles to one player who we find scummy. It might work if we give it to a person who we can agree is NOT mafia, because they wouldn't use it on the town. Of course, that opens up a whole other host of issues. However, I think we should deal with those anti-town roles later; we need to start off with just plain old scumhunting. I can't think of a reason to do anything differently than we would in a normal mafia game, barring some pretty interesting role stuff.
PREVIEW EDIT: I like Magna's idea, with the cycle of confirmation. It seems intelligent, certainly."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Parama, can you please remove the red text from your signature? I know it's not the mod colors for this game, but that's what my brain is thinking everytime i scroll past it."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Parama wrote:
Here it is:quadz08 wrote:I was hoping I would get a legit explanation from Parama, actually.
The mod saw >9000 people asking me about the virus.
So he rewrote the role's properties and sent this new description to me. I didn't even ask for it but whatever I see no reason to vote muh seeing as he currently has the bomb (I think?)
I definitely have my eye on you now. You declined an opportunity to explain the first time, possibly hoping it blows over, at the worst.Parama wrote:The virus can be passed between factions, sorry. The mod actually had to clarify that for me.
And if the mod rewrote the role's properties and resent them to you, it seems unlikely that you would say the "mod had to clarify it for me". "the mod actually had to clarify" seems like the way I would naturally phrase that, since the rewritten role would be the new role for EVERYONE, not just you, and the rewrite would affect you the least if you were town."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Rereading the game, I only see people asking "oh is it like an RL hot potato oooooh" and "Does it kill the person?" By then you've already passed it. More complex questions about the ability, ones that could even remotely seem related to intrafactional passes and spark the mod's memory that he forgot to clarify that point, don't come until page 2, when you've already passed it to Muh.
The mod didn't post a votecount until after you'd already passed the ability. It is possible though that he checked the thread somewhere near the bottom of page 1 and sent some pms though. I doubt it though. Muh would have been the one to receive a revised version of the role if it was a response to in-thread activity. He might have sent you the new version of the role pm just as a reference, but that's not exactly what you said, and, again, that possibility to makes the clause "for me" unlikely to appear in your post.
unvote, vote Parama.
I certainly don't have a better place for my vote.
Muh, did you"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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EBWOP: The simplistic paraphrased questions WERE asked before he passed it. Complexer ones after."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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I can support this, if only because it will kind of stop us from going on too much about the whole "what to do" aspect and focus our efforts on the actual game. It's efficient.RedCoyote wrote:
While I believe you most likely have this ability, I don't think this speaks to your alignment whatsoever.implosion 31 wrote:I have a treestump ability. For today, I'm voteless and can't be lynched. I'm worried that if this survives to lylo, it could screw everything up if a townie has it. Or if a mafia member has it for that matter. However, mafia having it for one day wouldn't really affect anything.
I don't understand why you automatically believe that this can't help the town though? Why can't you just pass it to the player you find most townie? This is very odd, implosion. I figured your ability was more along the lines of a suicide-bomber like thing, where, statistically, you'd probably end up killing yourself and another townie if you used it.
It's not a great ability, but I don't think it's uniformly anti-town. I can understand your point of view though, I think we just have an honest political disagreement over the power.
The existence of this ability is the equivalent of a dead townie in LyLo. Either this game goes to LyLo or we win without LyLo, so this ability is worth +1 living breathing townies.
In a 3 man lylo, if you give it to scum, scum is unlynchable. Give it to town, town can't vote for the scum player to win the game.
5 man lylo, youcanwin, but only if
1)a townie controlled the ability the night before
2)that townie gives it to a scum player.
3)all three townies unanimously vote for the other scum player.
4 dudes left, you pass it to an SK, the guy frickin wins against 3 townies and can claim SK in the thread. Yes. The dadgum thing is antitown. Voting and lynching are the ways townies win the game, naturally the thing sucks for us. And it actually sucks for us the entire game, the effect just isn't as dramatic. We either have a town player who cannot vote for scum, and would be using his vote more honestly than the scum who will take adantage of his silence, or we have an unlynchable scum who could totally blow his cover but still use cyclable abilities or be the guy to commit the nightkill that night.
I know the virtues of hiding info, but it's important to think about what that info can be used for. The info to reveal here to remove the treestump ability are:
1. Who the vigs, if any, will target that night.
2. Who is going to receive the treestump ability that night.
For 1, the only thing to fear is mafia doc and mafia busdriver. We're going to select a scummy player for this, so it's either a scummy townie, or a scummy scum. If it's a scummy scum, we eventually lynch the guy and we might get tracker info about why he survived. If he's scummy townie, well, we had a vig shooting someone who to the best of the town's ability seemed to be scum, and the mafia actually used their ability to stop a townie from dying. That oughtta help us somehow.
Busdrivers screw with things, but again there's tracking.
Both those cycle away from the faction that night so we can try again. Even if it doesn't work on first try, we can probably recoup our losses the next night.
I still think we should remove the treestump ability. And I think we should do it immediately, since the detrimental effect the treestump ability has is proportional to how long the game has been going on.
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There's a fine line between successful planning and showing your hand.pops 32 wrote:Figuring out how to create advantage within the setup is part of theme games, even normal games somewhat. Where's the spirit? You keep mentioning vague "bad things will happen, for sure, i just don't know what they are or why they will happen", and that's your only argument.
I have no strong opinion either way. I don't think it's uniformly anti-town. It can be used beneficially. implosion and you are thinking too far ahead, imo. The cyclical mechanic and likely multiple kills will eventually catch up with most of the abilities, most likely. This just isn't a priority thing to worry about. As in most good mafia games, the only thing I'm concerned with right now is catching scum, not overanalyzing our powers.pops 52 wrote:I'm thinking maybe we ought to remove implosion's ability from the game. If you're town, please argue for or against that without appeals to fear, mkay?
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MoI 53 wrote:How the cycling abilities will be handled -
D2 all players who survived and passed on abilities N1 should claim that they passed an ability, only revealing what that ability was if it gave them a Pro-Town result (like a guilty on someone). They are not to claim who they passed it to.
D3 all players still alive who passed abilities N1 claim who they passed them to. Then said players confirm / deny that they received an ability Day 2 that they passed on N2. They also reveal any useful results.
Lather rinse repeat each Day cycle. And continue to lynch scum."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Because your many times as likely to ask if you're part of a faction?Parama wrote:pops, what would I have to gain by saying "The mod clarified it without me asking him to" instead of "The mod clarified it with me asking him to"? I don't even see why this is a big deal."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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I feel strawmanned. I'm arguing that the manner in which Parama received clarification and how he described it sounds suspect. Of course I wouldn't suggest that theme games infrequently require clarification."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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The ability goes to Disneyland. It's possible there are ways to get it to come back from Disneyland and it is possible that there are no ways, Disneyland is so much fun you know.implosion wrote:Not sure if this has been asked yet or if I just missed something, but:
Mod: if a person is passed an ability on the night that they die, what happens to the ability?Based on the action resolution order, the ability would be passed to a dead person.
@Anyone who said I'm not confirmed town for having an ability, I never said I was. If everyone with an ability was confirmed town, this would be too easy.
@RedCoyote, can you give a situation in which my ability isn't anti-town? Even having someone voteless and unlynchable in general is bad. It narrows down the town's options and creates a player that won't be able to contribute as effectively.
Also, since I never actually voiced approval, MoI's plan sounds good.
Agreed. It looks like a lot of parroting of everything that's already been said, and it also looks kind of forced (i.e. he had to give opinions, but these opinions don't look real).I Am Innocent wrote:
Oh and something about this post just didn't sit well with me...AntB wrote:Currently I'm not liking Muh, a couple of posts and no content; I'm also not liking quadz based on his "scumslip" vote on paramas nulltell.
I'm not too keen on the idea of a massclaim early on, however removing anti-town abilities early on could prove beneficial then the scum would be left guessing as to what is in game and where...
Also the spud has a "time limit" of X amount of posts for those who missed it... I would guess that the trigger is around 150~250 posts.FoS AntB
If the passer tries to give excuses, we simply lynch them. If they say they tried to pass the ability but it failed, we ask everyone if they've seen an ability that could affect the transfer. If they just give some other random excuse, we lynch them on the spot.Powerrox93 wrote:
And by angeling it that way, X gets a chance of saying why he didn't passed it to Y in his defense-speechRedCoyote wrote:I think he's implying more along the lines of a town-controlled "you pass it to Y or face the consequences".
Oh, and either a scum died or a very questionable townie who considered "someone just gave me the bomb" a real post died, so the result of the bomb is pretty good.
That's a mod paraphrase. I doubt it's very easy to get back, and I want this Treestump ability out of the town.
I don't see how Parama is a lock for town if muh is scum. The thinking might have been, you know, "if this guy doesn't have the composure to pass a post potato, is he really gonna make it to endgame?"
It's WIFOM for whether doing this makes him look town, but I think it's definitely in those middling ranges where you don't make decisions based on the guts and moxie it would take to play the WIFOM. (day 1 wagonning a partner from the dust and orchestrating his lynch on your own, for example).
But of course, it's more of a towntell than a scumtell.
@themanhimself: I'm not paranoid, I'm indignant. If I see a fallacious argument tactic, I'm not gonna let it slide. Do you disagree that I was strawmanned? If you compare my post to his "refutation" I don't think you can.
I might be unfamiliar with the connotations of "strawman" but I'm just using the denotation; my argument was way oversimplified by his response. Not playing the victim here."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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It's antitown the entire game. Putting off the task of removing it will just make it more difficult :/"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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unvote: Parama"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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unvote, vote: TheLonging
Diddin is admittedly scummy, but TheLonging did the same action of saying "X is town for no reason". In 50% of his posts.
And also, I'd like Diddin to live so he can use those daykills. But Diddin. The daykills give us NO info about your alignment. If you don't use them in a democratic town-guided way, I'll see to it you hang from a rope. Daykill initiative is somewhat tolerable in games where it's more likely the role is on a townie, less in this game.
If you have to claim the Tree Stump ability for it to work, you're right, and that's what we'll do.chkflip wrote:@MOD: Have any abilities been modified from their original versions?
- Just off the top of my brain, I'd think that you'd know more about the more, erm, ostentacious roles in the game just judging by the length of time you've spent on this site. As TS, youTheLonging wrote:Also whoever claimed tree stump: why?haveto claim lest it doesn't work or fades away. Unless Eruci modified it, that's the original condition of the ability.
- If we can find one or two confirmed townies later into the game, we can have them pass it back and forth. Then again, we'd need more than two in case of mafia NK... I digress. See also: role conditions. If the player doesn't say "I'm the Tree Stump" in thread, whether they have it or not, the ability doesn't go into use. I don't think we should get rid of it. At all.popsofctown wrote:I'm thinking maybe we ought to remove implosion's ability from the game. If you're town, please argue for or against that without appeals to fear, mkay?
If the mod has modified the role, it needs to go. The two townies passing it back and forth will lose their votes in lylo, and making a confirmed townie unlynchable confers no benefit, it's a confirmed townie.
@RC: I'm mad @ u. Your playstyle seems more and more unreadable everytime I play with you.
@diddin: What do you mean by "my kills do not completely remove the virus?" Is it like, you got 100 milliliters of virus juice from muh's body, and you spray some of it for each kill, but you don't know how much each kill consumes? Kinda like that?"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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With Diddin's daykills I think we have a large number of "lynches" available and a two week deadline will be rough. I'm going back through the thread to scum hunt more, since i totally got all hung up on that parama thing."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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This is actually a decent tell, and reminds me of my own tendencies when i play the scum role.diddin wrote:quadz08 wrote:
Ummmmm... why? What does his alignment have to do with how accurate his (highly-OMGUSy) read was?Power wrote:With muh flipping town
VOTE: Parama
I'm going to believe muh on that one
And, diddin, I completely do NOT understand your insistence that WrathChild is scummy. TBH, I find it ridiculous. He unvoted from a RV, big whoop. Why are you making such a big deal out of unvoting without a revote, anyway?Yes, but the thing is he has called other people scummy, yet isn't voting. It looks like he's waiting to hop on a wagon. AKA he's not putting his vote where his mouth is.
I have as long as I want to activate my daykill. I have an unknown quantity of the kills available, as my power does not completely remove the virus.
bolding mine, again. This seems a little bit paranoid, makes me find Wrathchild scummy, much more so than his failure to vote. He seems to see scumhunting as more of an attack and scumhunting that targets him as plots from an opposing force rather than the mistakes of a misguided townie. (of course, he could be right, it could be a cross factional dispute, but the only way wrathchild would no that is if he were scum and diddin were town, not the reverse).WrathChild wrote:Now there is talk of Day-Vigging me. That's a bit hastey. I guess I'll address the Scumday thing.I saw that Diddin (I think that was who, I'll double check) had put up a lame pointless vote on me (for Unvoting a RVS Vote) and figured he was baiting me into OMGUS voting him to drive his case further.I wasn't going to let him have that satisfaction, so I just refrained from voting him at the moment. I think it was Diddin trying to fish around for someone's overreaction. Normally I'd take that as a Null-Tell, but when trying to get "The New Guy" with this seems to tip the scales a bit on the scummy side.
Now that I've explained the Scumday comment, I also find Parama's attack on me rather scummy and baseless for the most part. Take a minute and look at his attack, "Oh Well Muh was town... Let's get the real scum! VOTE: Wrath" followed by the scumday case, which basically states, "Come on guys! Don't you see it? Scum like to do things like that!"
It's all bologna. I'm not sure who is scummier, Diddin for rookie OMGUS fishing or Parama's meta-case against a player who's never been in this meta. I have seen Diddin move along, but am curious for Parama's response to this post.
FoS Wrathchild, and I'm feeling ok with that as a daykill."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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No, really, you just get a strong town consensus and say "dayvig this guy or you hang from a rope".themanhimself wrote:A lot of people have postulated that diddin might be scum, I'm not really one way or the other about it to be honest. However, if we have even the slightest notion that diddin might be scum we should probably wait for the daykill to pass to someone else tomorrow because if diddin is mafia then he's going to find ways to avoid killing his scumbuddies so our chance of getting anything useful out of this power is slim.
He'll dayvig a townie and then hang from a rope, we either bag a scum or get free lynches."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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diddin is willing to delegate his kill. I doubt he's gonna go rogue with it, it doesn't work for pretty much any possible wincon.themanhimself wrote:Parama is just as likely as anyone else to be town. I'm not sure if diddin is scum but I really don't trust him with the dayvig ability right now, I say we see who gets it tomorrow and go off of that. In fact, why don't we vote on who it should go to tomorrow and then if it doesn't go to that person then we have a good scumlink, if it does go to that person then we have it in the hands of someone that most people don't believe is scum. I think Saint is being a little bit over the top but I'll keep that on the back burner for now. I can't tell if wrathchild is just scummy or new but either way he's not being super-helpful. I say we VOTE: Implosion and see what happens. If he's telling the truth then it's null, if he's lying then we either lynched a lying townie or some scum so I don't see a losing scenario there.
Identifying who he is going to pass his daykill ability is HORRIBLE because scum can shoot that person and remove the vig ability from the game permanently. .
I've never heard of the tree stump ability before. I didn't know it was an established role. I just assumed that for that player, no amount of votes could trigger a mod scene or end of day. I didn't think it would no lynch.Saint wrote:
By confirming this, you would essentially be forcing a no lynch... if he isn't lying, and is merely voteless. Furthermore, you KNOW the town isn't going to get behind this. This is just distancing/trying to gain a no lynch in my opinion and I'm reading it as severely anti-town.popsofctown wrote:Vote: implosion. No harm in confirming this.
The bolded here really reads wrong to me[/quote]popsofctown wrote:I'm thinking maybe we ought to remove implosion's ability from the game. If you're town, please argue for or against that without appeals to fear, mkay?
I was frustrated, and was beginning to suspect that some of the people baselessly rejecting my idea were scum. *shrug*
Yeah it is antitown. I don't think I owe the game that much effort though. He didn't identify highlights, a skim won't work. If I read 20% of the thread, I get 20% of what he is trying to convey. There's a certain amount of effort I put into all my games and I don't go past that. I also refuse to reread games when people ask me to.Saint wrote:
Even I skimmed it. Is it that hard to read?popsofctown wrote:Magna, the stump ability, specifically, is not very bad early. It makes the controller voteless. It's harmless UNTIL endgame.
and im not reading a mini
I'll give proof I did: Jack commonly was like "I know 3 town and 3 scum... more on that later" then
"I know 6 town and 3 scum... more on that later"... I'll admit I didn't finish a read, but I wanted to get a gist of how everything would go. It's only ~30 pages IIRC. Your refusal to do that is anti-town.
I didn't really finish my thought there, sorry. I thought he was lying, Lynch all Liars.Saint wrote:
Also your #15 in iso is IIoA, with a weak vote on a null-situation that lacks reasoning
Hrm. When I look up my 17 in iso it looks like phail nested quotes and ultimately saying nothing. The words underneath the quote pyramid aren't mine, they are someone else's, they got there by mistake. Somehow I lost content from that post, it was probably the one where I wanted to talk to RC point by point.Saint wrote: Your #17 in iso feels like it is pushing parama's post back to bury it in the thread
Well, the basis for my nowdead attack on Parama was also based on Freudian slips. I'm surprised you couldn't empathize.Saint wrote:
Moot. Disagreement isn't a scumtell.popsofctown wrote:
Because your many times as likely to ask if you're part of a faction?Parama wrote:pops, what would I have to gain by saying "The mod clarified it without me asking him to" instead of "The mod clarified it with me asking him to"? I don't even see why this is a big deal.
No, it just makes it less useful when the guy you want to kill is unlynchable.Saint wrote:
treestumping DOES NOT REMOVE SCUMHUNTING OK?popsofctown wrote:It's antitown the entire game. Putting off the task of removing it will just make it more difficult :/
My case was totally based on my thinking he was lying and making up a mod interaction that never happened. The mod proved that that interaction really happened. My unvote should have been pretty self-explanatory, and I was busy at the moment so I figured I'd do that much. I came back later when I had a few minutes to spare to find a player to vote for.Saint wrote:
for god's sakepopsofctown wrote:unvote: Parama
really? this far into a game, and an unvote without any explanation!
Not sure if you misread that post or are misrepresenting it. That's not really what it was about.Saint wrote: Your #24 is trying to beg the town to excuse you for pushing a case on a null-tell on what you know to be a townie because you're scum
How's it going to help scumdiddin out for me to add that clause? So he knows not to do it again? If I just attacked him for doing it he'd know not to do it again.Saint wrote: #25 yet again your interaction with diddin with the "reminds me of my own tendencies when i play scum" is like trying to guide a fledgling scumbuddy into the lategame simply based upon the fact that he's a PR you don't want to lose
I never thought Parama was scum because he passed the potato to Muh. I've never said that. It was based on his word choice making me suspicious of his possible lying.Saint wrote: he then chainsaws wrathchild somewhat with an FoS because he is suspicious of diddin. Sure, guys, lets lynch the noob. So, basically, he is pushing a null case on Parama when anyone would have done what he did regardless of alignment (actually scum would have picked a GOOD player to bomb who was V/LA imo), and is now defending scum by calling his attacker "scummy". Are you afraid to say he's scum? Do you not like to lie. You are scum. I don't mind saying it. I know I'm not, and you could be, and my heart is telling me you are, so I'll say what I feel. You are scum, you are scum, you are scum.
I call players scummy rather than scum. I don't know if anyone in this game is scum or not. I'm not an interdimensional Night Zero supercop.
I don't think even the best of scumhunting gets past 95% certainty, which is more than enough for me to say I'm not sure about something.Saint wrote: your lack of willingness to use the word scum vs scummy is noted, though most will disagree with me on that mattering. Then you say "but the only way wrathchild would no that is if he were scum and diddin were town, not the reverse" note how he used "no" instead of "know". I'm finding this to be a scumslip, but I'm already tunneling him, so finding his scumslips are ezpz.
@themanhimself: I think you still don't quite "get" it. Dayvigging is a highly protown role. Today, diddin will kill people we identify as scummy, it will be like an extra lynch. Diddin has to do this no matter what alignment he has, because we'll lynch him if he doesn't.
Tomorrow, whoever has diddin's power has the same deal. It will probably be a townie, because scum can't pass abilities within their own faction, and towndiddin will try to identify a probtown player and pass him the ability.
It gives us a lot of kills in town control. That's a good thing. It's like if the town had two lynches a day.. it's a huge advantage.
@shooting implosion to remove the stump ability: yeah, that's how it works, but I don't feel like he's scum, so that'd be a shame. It does lower the threshhold for how suspicious he has to behave to become a good pick, but nothing he does bothers me.
@MoI's cycling plan: I reread the OP while I was rereading stuff and cycles resolve after kills. That mean when we say we have an ability, scum know who to shoot to remove abilities from the game. That doesn't really help us. The last game is probably the reason it's like that this game."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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could you identify who your an alt of?"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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oh wow you are in this game
I don't remember you posting before."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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@all: This is a frequently disputed point of theory, but I see identifying protown players who are not in danger of lynch as a negative. It's just marking nightkill targets, and doesn't preserve their lives anymore than waiting until L-1 to speak up would.I Am Innocent wrote:FTR, I have played one game each with Diddin, Parama, and Red Coyote, they were all town and I do not see any material differences in playing style. I lean towards town on all three of these.
There's arguments against that, like, roflcopter believes in some sort of weird mutally identified townie coalition that charges to victory or some such, but I don't buy it. But if you're into that I'll respect it.
But I would like to point out that in this game the drawbacks to identifying town players is increased. Players are likely to be making the same judgments in parallel, you're marking protown players for scum (who might be cognitively blocked from recognizing by their role, or perhaps are simpley inept) and then if those players get nightkilled and a bunch of townies cycle useful powers to that person, they all go to Disneyland. (the void).
Posting what you think about diddin was ok I guess, let's face it that dayvig power is drawing fire tonight anyway. Parama and RC seemed unnecessary to me though."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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V/LA for a visit to relatives, i return on the 29th."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Unless there are protective roles, or trackers, or mafia don't shoot him just because of aforementioned worry. I say it's well worth a shot since implosion seems protown atm if anything.Saint wrote:you won't be able to give it away unless you are scum
scum will totally kill you if you are town to get rid of that ability"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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I need a read no matter what your faction is. I get the feeling you're one of those fellows that extensively uses the preview button with every alignment, making every alignment hard to read.RedCoyote wrote:
That's okay because I'm town.pops 188 wrote:@RC: I'm mad @ u. Your playstyle seems more and more unreadable everytime I play with you.
[/quote]RedCoyote wrote:
Instead of asking pops what you should be doing, why don't you you read the game for yourself? You're not in any danger of being replaced or anything. This is a weird comment.Longing 197 wrote:what are some topics I can comment on?
Actually his post implies that he read the entire game and has nothing to say. That's normal, nothing scummy jumps out at you when you already know who the scum are.
L-1->Claim->Treestump Hammer->Diddin shoots claimant unless claim is epic. Should be procedure for first L-1 today.red wrote:
I'm down with this.AntB 237 wrote:The best way I believe for implosion to prove he is a treestump is to hammer someone. We see the vote, the mod would ignore it, meaning no hammer. Quick, dirty, doesn't waste a lynch.
[quote="RC]
Are you going to vote like this the whole game? Is this just to be different? Because I don't really want to have to go check back everytime you vote.AntB 242 wrote:Time to turn up the heat I think. VOTE: VOTE: AE8363413
[/quote]
Yeah, for a mini the flavor thingie would be cute enough but this game is stressful... quickhammering nonsense seems the only use of the voting option.
Use it or lose it. He wants his shot to be democratically executed today before the power is possibly lost tonight. As town he ought to want it to get used today. I don't see why people are acting suspicious of diddin based on how he has handled his dayvig ability because it's been appropriate in every way, not fullclaiming, making it democratic so it's an extra lynch, all that.RC wrote:
I've noticed this as well, and it makes me more nervous. I don't like having diddin's finger on the trigger.theman 257 wrote:I don't like the pressure that diddin is putting on the town here. It sounds like he's itching to use his dayvig power, which makes me wonder why.
not done posting but i got to cut of. my A is L because of my V"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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AntB wrote:HoS for newb and no attempt to learn or even read up on how mafia worksAntB wrote:Meta Hunt
PM'd"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Not so different from my TheLonging vote, to be honest. Which by the way, is rescinded since replacement brings the promise of new information.RedCoyote wrote:Unvotebecause pops (and a few others) are right that we really need to try and defend this ability the best we can. Town can generally only benefit from a day kill that is controlled by the community-at-large, regardless of how successful we are with it.
I'm going to go back to myvote: Helghast. I think this is a good lynch for today, and I don't think any other wagon (sans possibly EC) is really gaining any steam. He starts off by asking Parama to expand on his ability. Frankly, it reads more defensive than anything else to me. If it's not defensive then I read it as somewhat of a silly question anyways. Later he kind of drops the Parama situation altogether, which was a weird transition for a player who had, until that point, been focused 100% on Parama's ability. The rest of his posts have mostly been one liners that have given us nothing to go on. He hasn't voted, he hasn't "FoS'd" anyone, and he hasn't really given us any decent reads at all. He's just drifting by unaccounted for. Bottom line, when I read Helghast's posts I don't see them as a townie who is genuinely trying to scumhunt.
unvote
It's absolutely true that there's nothing protown in Helghast's posting, but there's not much posting either. I think the signal to noise ratio is a better barometer of alignment than the total volume of scumhunting work produced by any one player.
Really this is at least to some extent lurker hunting, but you don't seem to want to say that. Afraid of the stigma? There's definitely some people who will go after a player for admitting that most of the reason for a vote is because the target is going to lurk all game and give little actual info about their alignment. I've definitely taken flak for it before. But I think it's frequently proper strategy so I'll say it when I use it, I lurker hunt I lurker hunt I lurker hunt.
Red, are you going to stand by a statement that Helghast is as anti-town as it gets? There have been numerous other players with many more posts, many chances to say anti-town things that don't rub you right. Is the 60 second iso really as evil as it gets for you?
I'll be rereading the thread now, trying to identify the most appropriate place for my vote. It might be lurker hunting or it might be a scummy active, I'll see."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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AntB, calm down. I doubt you'll get modkilled.
You should immediately post the contents of the pm in this thread though, if you're so penitent you should get on the right side of the spirit of the rule. The dude still has info he can review before we get to."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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but you found it when you were oming? am confused"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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ebwop pming"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Wow. I thought you PM'ed him nothing but a hyperlink, thinking they were illegal in the thread or something. That was a PM full of game relevant information.
Anyhow, stop posting. you're dead
mod, I actually can probably figure out the rest of this game without AntBs original alignment, but can we find out what cycling power died with him? I feel like concealing that info gives more advantage to the scum faction than the town one, since they have more info about the available powers than we do."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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ebwop, the mod said he was a townie. I got confused by the town alignment being named after the mod :S"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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ebwop, maybe he didn't have a power.
I'm dumb today.
I'm gonna go drink a six pack of coke and see what that does for me."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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+1 "bullets for Wrathchild". Brings the total to five, (Parama, The man himself, Diddin, popsofclown,RyukLateralus) who support such a shot. His defense does little for me, there's always an RL reason for not posting but they get a lot more colorful when you're trying to be scum. And the manner in which he defended himself was more upsetting than the disproportionate focus on his self defense, and the latter is the only thing explained by RL factors.
After Helghast's reaction to pressure, or rather, lack of reaction really, I'm going to have to follow RC andVote: Helghast. (meaning Wrathchild isn't the person I absolutely most want dead, but he's a number two or maybe three and I want things expedited so we have 2 lynches today. )
@chkflip: dude. The wiki is not God. It's a wiki for crying out loud.."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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It lacks so much authority I feel like asking if the abilities were modified from how they appear in my blawg."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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....Do you even have a wincon?Helghast wrote:
Lack of reaction? Doesn't that just show I'm calm?popsofctown wrote:
After Helghast's reaction to pressure, or rather, lack of reaction really, I'm going to have to follow RC andVote: Helghast. (meaning Wrathchild isn't the person I absolutely most want dead, but he's a number two or maybe three and I want things expedited so we have 2 lynches today. )
@chkflip: dude. The wiki is not God. It's a wiki for crying out loud..
I have no role, so I can't really role claim.
Personally I am more suspicious of Diddin and Parama, but at the moment it's just a gut feeling.
So ya if you think I'm scum go ahead, but I'm saying right now that you will lose a townie.
@karmadog, i was confused in the same way you were.."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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ugh.
I hate reading new players.
I have negative thirty seven objections to switching to helghast. He's an infinitely better lynch/shot, that's why i'm voting him."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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themanhimself wrote:I don't see helghast as scum at all, I read and re-read his posts and I just don't see it. Lateralus however has given me a very weird vibe since he jumped in this game. Does anyone second that? I think a WC shot would give us a lot of information on someone who very well could be scum but I don't see it as necessary to a D1 scum lynch. I don't think I'd vote for a helghast shot but if you guys wanna discuss other candidates for day-vigging I'm sure I could be convinced. If we want to switch to a WC lynch though I'm not so sure that I would vote for that, seems like a waste of the effort to get a majority together when WC isnt obv-scum in my eyes, whereas a dayvig shot is much more easily decided."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Of course.diddin wrote: His last post may be a chainsaw, but those read null without a flip.
I can't remember who Narsis is, so that's probably not a horrible shot. But I'd really like to see the ugly side of Helghast floating down the river, there seems to be no hope of seeing behavior that will change my current read on him.
(and powerless..)"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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joke or not, I don't like that you're spending any amount of thought on how other players perceive you. It's not very Erucilicious."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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on this topic, diddin should not count his vote as double or triple. He needs to shoot the person who the MOST people vote for, either by majority or a plurality near deadline.
If he picks between the top cantidates he could be picking the nontown person and that defeats the point."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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I volunteer to play two roles at once"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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The wiki is god implosion."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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no ask chkflip about it the wiki is god"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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I do it with both alignments. It's good play. Deal with it. Lurking is a weak scumtell, and a promise not to be readable for the rest of the game.MagnaofIllusion wrote:Rather large catch-up post incoming ….
Pops’ 188rings my scum-dar for lurker hunting (Longing) and continuing with an unproductive thought process on Cycling Powers.
It was horrible. But there was precedent, and diddin comes off to me as one of those guys that does this sort of thing from both sides of the aisle. He's scummy, but that's not why.Magna wrote: I don’t like that Diddin claimed under zero pressure. That he did so as a Dayvig makes me wonder the following –
Explain why fencesitting is a scumtell, or this is an offtopic post. I've been accused of fencesitting in far more of my town games than scum ones and still fail to understand how it's a scumtell, so you'll need to enlighten me.Magna wrote: The last paragraph ofRedCoyote’s 174reads as fencesitting.
-incomplete post"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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The net result is still negative. Info about who is not scum with who seems to only have marginally use. One of two players has to flip scum, and then we only get one confirmed innocent.MagnaofIllusion wrote:
No it is not anti-Town the entire game. The ability to publicly pass it for several days gives us solid sets of X and Y are not scum together data. If you insist on looking at the downsides long-term at least consider the positives generated along the way.Pops at 150 wrote:It's antitown the entire game. Putting off the task of removing it will just make it more difficult :/
In all likelihood there are tons of cycling powers in play, so we should be getting a bunch of other similar data with or without the treestump power in play. The issue won't be connecting players, it will be finding that first scumbag per faction (multiple mafias seems very likely to me in light of the intrafactional limitation on the cycling mechanic).
193 should say "He'll dayvig a towniemagna wrote:
So you would rather eliminate a Cycling ability before any Paired Relational information could be generated or before it could be passed to a Townie who could Dayvig scum-Diddin?Pops at 193 wrote:No, really, you just get a strong town consensus and say "dayvig this guy or you hang from a rope".
He'll dayvig a townie and then hang from a rope, we either bag a scum or get free lynches.orhang from a rope", as would be consistent with the first sentence of the post. I'm not sure if this is the source of confusion here. But if Diddin roguely shoots some player he's not authorized to kill, yes, the correct move is to lynch him. A scumbag with the daykill ability will simply cycle the ability to player X and nightkill player X that same night to permanently remove the daykill ability from the game. There'd be no hope of salvaging the ability by hoping he's forced to pass it to a townie as you suggest. Even protown roles would have little ability to rescue the daykill ability, a scumpartner could send in the kill so we won't know who to roleblock, and he can pick any townie to kill+pass to so you don't know who to protect.
See above. And democratic daykilling is bad because the mafia are influencing it? Man, we should stop lynching, the mafia influence that too. vote: No lynch. *eyeroll*Magna wrote:
So does lynching Diddin if he doesn’t bow to public pressure which is sure to have some Mafia influence. Yet you are all for that.Pops at 232 wrote:Identifying who he is going to pass his daykill ability is HORRIBLE because scum can shoot that person and remove the vig ability from the game permanently. .
Reading comprehension is poor. I thought your original plan was for people to claim D1 that they had som ability they were going to pass to someone, but that a D2 thing not a D1 thing upon rereading your post. My mistake, nothing wrong with your plan and I /support it.Magna wrote:
Then either your reading comprehension is bad or this is a scum-motivated post. You claim an ability AFTER you pass it. And the abilities worked just the same in the last game.Pops at 232 wrote:@MoI's cycling plan: I reread the OP while I was rereading stuff and cycles resolve after kills. That mean when we say we have an ability, scum know who to shoot to remove abilities from the game. That doesn't really help us. The last game is probably the reason it's like that this game.
1 is valid, but that same player is the player he'd shoot. And it's not like we're forcing him to shoot any particular player, he just plants the dayvig power on whatever he wanted to kill that night anyway.Magna wrote:
So you would push for a proven Dayvig power to be lynched based on him not following orders when –Saint at 420 wrote:Diddin, if you shoot WC without at least 10 or more people saying "go for it" that you quote in a post, I am going to push your lynch so hard.
1. If he is Scum he MUST pass it to someone other than his own partners
2. If he is Town Scum has to use their NK to eliminate it if they don’t think he will pass it to them
3. Whoever Diddin would pass it to would provide Mafia Pairing elimination
4. Lynching said proven Cycling power assures it is taken out of the game
2 is invalid. He won't shoot roguely if he's town. It makes no sense for his wincon.
3. is invalid, that player he passes to will be dead from scum NK, no pairing is made.
4 is invalid because the power is doomed anyway.
No, I'm not scum because I support a better procedure for handling the dayvig than you do. It just means you don't understand it yet, or at the very worst, I'm mistaken. Knowingly pushing bad theory is something I would never try, have never tried, and have never seen with either alignment. It's next to impossible to make a town go along with incorrect approach to the setup, 25 (or even 12) players can't and won't be that dumb. Pushing bad theory as scum has a risk with almost no possible reward.Magna wrote:Post 437
And lurker hunting is good play when no better cases are available. I could explain why, but since the reason we disagree isn't "we have different wincons so we therefore have different viewpoints", I doubt you'd accept the reason at this point.
Lol...WrathChild wrote:Post Count:
-curiouskarmadog: 28
-diddin: 27
-popsofctown: 54
-Parama: 35
-Saint/Vi: 27
Perhaps I need to slow down. Most of those even close to my post count have a shorter average post length than me in my rough estimation >_<
@WrathChild: Type "open bracket, b, close bracket" before what you want to bold, then after you've typed that part you wish to appear bold, type [/b] .
This allows you to use the quick reply to bold, similar functions are
for italics,
for underline,
for colored text in most crayon box colors, andEruci wrote: for quoting other players.
You can close all those with a similar ending as bold uses, but you leave off the ='s stuff for color and quote, and just use the key word."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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I <3 StrangerCoug he's the coolest"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Your name has turned green though. Is it feeling sick?"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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give your name a warm cup of chamomile tea maybe it will feel better."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Keep in mind I misread the mod's post as "AntB turned into a Neutral Survivor and died. Move on." So it seemed to indicate that for some reason or other related to the offense, the mod didn't think it was fit to reveal the player's alignment.I Am Innocent wrote:
Pops, rereading this made me have the following questions:popsofctown wrote:mod, I actually can probably figure out the rest of this game without AntBs original alignment, but can we find out what cycling power died with him? I feel like concealing that info gives more advantage to the scum faction than the town one, since they have more info about the available powers than we do.
1) What did you exactly mean that "I actually can probably figure out the rest of this game without AntBs original alignment"
2) What did you exactly mean "I feel like concealing that info gives more advantage to the scum faction than the town one, since they have more info about the available powers than we do."
Thinking about this more from my end:
1) Assuming just 2 factions, scum would know that AntB was not on there team and wouldn't care about this information which you did not. As a townie / Eruci, had the mod not told me AntB's alignment, I would have wanted to know that. But this was not the case with you.
2) I am also wondering if it is more beneficial to scum to know lost power roles than town. Like a cop or doctor role....us losing them and not knowing about them does not hurt the town imo, but that knowledge could help the scum decide whether or not to try to take out a player with the dayvig or not.
Since AntB had posted very little this game and seemed rather unconnected to other players, knowing his original alignment didn't seem like it would help me scumhunt the rest of the game. That's why I said I could probably "figure out", as in, identify everyone's alignment, without knowing what his was. So I wasn't going to protest the mod's imagined decision not to reveal AntB's alignment, not because I perceived a visibly good reason but because it really wouldn't help me anyhow.
As for 2), knowing the powers that died with the player helps town less than scum because we have less info. We only get to know our own power, if we have one. Scum know their own power and all their teammates'.
So the ratio of town knowledge to scum knowledge of the setup might be, say, 3:6. If you add one to each side by revealing AntB's power, it goes to 4:7, which is a better ratio. As the gap between the scum and town's knowledge of the setup decreases, our town night targetting will get as good as the scum's, and some day decisions too."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"