Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[Datisi]

VOTE: vp baltar

obvscum

@yeet, please get an avi k thx

[Datisi]

oh yeah

@mod, v/la every tuesday and wednesday due to uni

[Datisi]

frogs is dead wrong on how game moderation works on mafiascum dot net but i think he's town for it

[Datisi]

my mind knows that skitter saying the same thing i did at the same time is probably a coincidence at this stage in the game

my heart wants to townbin it anyway

decisions, decisions

[Datisi]

VOTE: Datisi

I feel jittery about this slot’s opening posts.

good vote

what gives you the jitters?

[Datisi]

the plan of scumclaiming on page 2 for the reverse psychology is backfiring, shit

[Datisi]

You are not helping your case, scumDatisi.

what case? "subliminally signaling" you have made a good vote by openly telling you you have made a good vote?

[Datisi]

VOTE: tenebro

yeet may or may not be town, tenebro probably isn't

[Datisi]

You are not helping your case, scumDatisi.

what case? "subliminally signaling" you have made a good vote by openly telling you you have made a good vote?

Datisi, this feels a bit intense for the context

>_>

it was supposed to be jokey in tone. there is no case.

[Datisi]

Ah, that makes sense. I still think your posting was somewhat provocative so I think it's totally expected that Yeet would be concerned by it. Was that what you expected also?

yes and no. i'm used to there being meme wagons on me early game, especially from people that don't really know me. there are different things that i expect from town/scum pushing me though, which i will elaborate on in:

re skitt's 70 - yeet was the first to attack me, they're stubborn, and not really responding to my questioning. i find that behaviour comes from either bold-scum or town who either loves reaction testing or is REALLY sure in their page 2 reads. idk who yeet is, so i can't definitely say if they're likely to be bold as scum.

tenebro on the other hand walked in, saw that i'm getting pressure, dropped a vote on me based on weak reasoning, and left. it feels much more likely to be a scum approach, lack of boldness (don't wanna stand out) and weak reasoning (scum wants to appear how they're thinking through the game, have a nice thought process, etc)

not reading the million pedits

[Datisi]

if i may butt in, i think the reason skitter is saying that about me is because she's aware my play so far is objectively nai

[Datisi]

tenebro on the other hand walked in, saw that i'm getting pressure, dropped a vote on me based on weak reasoning, and left.

Did you feel pressured by one vote?

Are you expecting strong reasoning so early in the game?

no and no

[Datisi]

But r.e. tenebro - you only had the one vote from yeet at the time, and arguably frog was under more pressure from yeet just then, so i'm not sure i buy the 'scum plying votes on you to fit in and find an easy place to stick a vote' train of thought

/shrug

i think votes are what speaks volume more than words and he's been consistently calling me scum, wasn't he calling frogs town? or did i make that up

[Datisi]

Frogsterking is confirmed town to me. I will not accept any vote on Frogsterking.

On the other hand, Datisi is most likely scum this game.

yeah idk how you think this means frogs was under more pressure from yeet than i was @skitt

[Datisi]

i have Thoughts but i should probably let skitt speak first before saying anything

[Datisi]

i'm not sure why you're ascribing scum motivation to it and not just viewing it as a 'town voting the first thing that pinged them outside of rvs' sort of vote

because he did not show what i think town usually shows around making a vote like that - like where's the sorting when he's already keen on making srs reads? why does he seem to be fading in the background after making it? he made like, one throwaway questions post at me and that's it. it feels more like scum trying to fulfill their "solving quota" than town genuinely feeling the game if that makes sense

also like, i'll let you in on a little secret: i was not as sure on this read as i gave the impression of being at the time... the responses haven't been Good though imho

[Datisi]

VOTE: fireisredsir

why? what happened to disliking my tenebro vote?

[Datisi]

Dats did you roll town again ? ? : )

i did roll town ! ! did you?

[Datisi]

136 noted for being potentially a town tell, a scum tell, or both!

does this not apply to lile every single post in this game

[Datisi]

Dats did you roll town again ? ? : )

i did roll town ! ! did you?

It's actually impossible for me to roll anything but town! : )

i think you are lying to me based on that potions game but i will not say anything because i want to believe you are town : )

[Datisi]

it's been a while since I've seen you - did you do anything fun over the weekend?

i made some art and was getting mentally ready for the new semester of uni, so nothing special

did you do anything interesting?

[Datisi]

i have Thoughts but i should probably let skitt speak first before saying anything

skitter has spoken so I would like to hear what your T h o u g h t s were here

mostly that your case was nothing because she did not say she townread me and the "you are projecting that we know datisi therefore you are scum!?!?" was a huge stretch

[Datisi]

it feels more like scum trying to fulfill their "solving quota" than town genuinely feeling the game if that makes sense

also like, i'll let you in on a little secret: i was not as sure on this read as i gave the impression of being at the time... the responses haven't been Good though imho

No, it doesnt, ans i dont think your original vote was really based on anything, and that you're now trying to justify it after the fact

ok? does that make me scum? if no, why are we having this conversation? if yes, why aren't you voting me?

@fireisredsir, @Datisi, @Aristeia what are the names of the anime characters in your profile pictures?

shin tsukimi from your turn to die, which is a GAME and NOT an ANIME

[Datisi]

scratch the "why aren't you voting me" i guess, my next question is why do you think this is actually, like, scummy for me, since i believe you must have seen me make confident pushes early?

[Datisi]

Datisi do you think I am meme-pushing you? Is that why you feel rather unaffected by my push on you? I can assure you that I am not memeing with this push on you.

anyone who thinks they can lockscum me on page 2 is lying either to themselves or to everyone else

you may not be meming but the push itself is a meme

[Datisi]

and with that, my bus arrives at my destination and i must start my long and boring day of classes

see y'all in like 10 hours, try to not kill me in the meantime, mkay?

[Datisi]

ackchually before i go

ok? does that make me scum? if no, why are we having this conversation? if yes, why aren't you voting me?

I think you made a bad initial vote and that you're trying to justify it under pressure but cant. And i now am!

VOTE: skitter

(1) what pressure
(2) you've seen me so many times make early votes that had more confidence than justified to get the game going and see the reactions to it

[Datisi]

@nero, do you townread all of the names not mentioned in 288? if not, how did you come to that list?

[Datisi]

some people not mentioned in your list haven't even posted?? excuse me for asking i guess

class starting back again, cheers

[Datisi]

some people not mentioned in your list haven't even posted?? excuse me for asking i guess

class starting back again, cheers

I don't like the way Datisi focused on nitpicking rather than the substance of Nero Cain's argument.

have you decided you're just gonna mindlessly tunnel every post i make this game? i logged in during my break, saw that nero was supposedly townreading people that hadn't posted, i asked him about it. do you think "nitpicking" that makes me scummy?

[Datisi]

Hi datisi!

I have good news and I have bad news.

hi baltar!!

give me the good news first, i'm in need of some right now.

[Datisi]

what's the bad news?

[Datisi]

I would like to know how you came up with this "mindless" idea. I have been quite clear about why I think the posts of yours I have criticized are scummy to me. It has not been mindless at all.

So long as you continue to make such posts, I will continue to suspect you, yes. Is being scumread so alien to you as to be upsetting?

because it seems like you've decided you're gonna scumread me and are forcing my posts into a scum mindset, as opposed to actually reading them and coming to alignment-indicative conclusions.

and i find it dubious at best that you would consider a post like that scummy, considering its context. i'm not upset, i'm just calling bs out when i see it.

[Datisi]

baltar, this cliffhanger sucks, 1/10

[Datisi]

Pedit @dats me questioning you abt your vote. The more i ask you abt it the more i feel like there was no initial reasoning and you're trying ti back-justify it

And my issue is that you presented it as a scumread and the reasoning you gave was somewhat empty

And now you're saying it was more of a reaction vote? Why is my reaction scummy?

do you expect there to be some super strong case / reasoning from me on page 2-4, whatever it is? (when i'm not playing with ico, that is ) like, A Thing from tenebro pinged me, i decided to vote him for it, both to show that i got bad pings from his slot, and to see if any interesting things happen as a result from it. i do this *checks notes* all the fucking time as both alignments. which is something that you should know, and the fact that you're giving me shit for having an "empty" vote early on is, like, not a good look.

like, what's your idea here? that scum!me panicked, made a random vote that i had no idea how to justify because i thought i wouldn't get asked about it?? then when, surprise, did get asked about it, i only then started thinking about a justification?? like you know better than this...

[Datisi]

Datisi do you think I am meme-pushing you? Is that why you feel rather unaffected by my push on you? I can assure you that I am not memeing with this push on you.

anyone who thinks they can lockscum me on page 2 is lying either to themselves or to everyone else

you may not be meming but the push itself is a meme

I see a contradiction here. If you really were so unconcerned about this push, you would not need to dismiss it this way.

*blinks*

like, this is what i mean when i say specifically looking for scum motivation in my posts. it feels like latching on to whatever i say in order to try to force a contradiction out. do i seem concerned? why wouldn't i dismiss it by saying something about it?

206 makes me like fire and dislike frogs, mostly the townread on generalwu for those posts is questionable

the second part of 207 feels like something that noob!scum says because they took a post too literally. but, i don't think it necessarily makes deasvail scum, since i think i recall someone calling him good at scum in that tm2021 game, and good scum isn't prone to such cognitive-overload mistakes

VOTE: fireisredsir

why? what happened to disliking my tenebro vote?

what's the correlation between that and voting fireisredsir?

They also never voted you over disliking your tenebro vote

iirc, she had just said she disliked something i did, and then she voted fire, when the kind of logical conclusion of events should've been that she votes me

[Datisi]

is 234 townie? probably not. do i wanna townread it anyway? yeah.

if i didn't know who monkey was, i'd scumread the shit out of that slot - but unless he has massively fallen out of shape, i'm just puzzled at his play here.

[Datisi]

like, this is what i mean when i say specifically looking for scum motivation in my posts. it feels like latching on to whatever i say in order to try to force a contradiction out. do i seem concerned? why wouldn't i dismiss it by saying something about it?

To me, it seems like Yeet's push made you sweat. Resorting to discrediting it as a meme rather than either ignoring it because of not being concerned

or confronting the substance

, to me is the action of mafia. One could call it "dismissive." I could be wrong, of course.

you mean like when i tried to question him about what gives him the jitters and he latched onto the fact i said "good vote" as opposed to actually responding to my questioning? and how the entirety of his push just kept being egging me on without any substantive elaboration? gee, i wonder why i started thinking of the push as a meme. no idea why.

[Datisi]

some people not mentioned in your list haven't even posted?? excuse me for asking i guess

and you don't find me scummy for this?

no, there are plenty of reasons someone might do that, some townie, some scummy, which is why i did the ask

[Datisi]

That is an acceptable point, Datisi. I wish you did not feel the need to deliver it sarcastically. I am trying my best here and may miss the mark on occasion.

aaaaaahhh, now i feel bad

sorry if i've been mean, i don't try to be :/

[Datisi]

Bad news is I'm ascetic.

i don't see why that is bad news, but you should probably not answer that

do you gave any of those thoughts on the game? you've been pretty lowkey so far

pedit: lol
thanks for telling specifically me, i guess?

[Datisi]

if i didn't know who monkey was, i'd scumread the shit out of that slot - but unless he has massively fallen out of shape, i'm just puzzled at his play here.

hey it's me, i don't know who monkey is and i scumread that slot. is there a reason i shouldn't? i skimmed a few past games and nothing changed my mind much in either direction

mostly it's the fact that scum!monkey ripped through the town in one game i played with him a while ago

so the fact that his behaviour here is so blatantly scummy is like - (a) scum!monkey forgot how to play mafia, (b) ??????????

[Datisi]

I haven't read the game yet and likely won't get a chance to until late today. I was sleepy sleeping when it started and I have a lot of work to do today.

it's alright, i don't have too much free time right now either.

for whoever wants to weigh in on this - am i tunnelled on tenebro? like, posts 58, 140, 195, 202, 318 feel like specifically looking for scum!motivation from me / things to attack me over rather than actually thinking through my posts and drawing conclusions that way. i *want* to say i'm still feeling as sure in the read as i was an hour ago, but like, something something weak at emotion bad at mafia etc.

[Datisi]

oooh

which game was that?

[Datisi]

> opens game
> opens monkey's iso
> reads like 5 posts of him calling others daddy
> closes game

[Datisi]

ari, do you think both me and skitt are town?

pedit: if you'd asked me like half an hour ago, i would've said tenebro
but if there is precedent for monkey playing scum like *waves hands* this, i think that's something i want to explore first

[Datisi]

what

[Datisi]

But Dats and Ari are straight-up ignoring, yes.

i didn't feel like explicitly writing out "yeah, these are good points, i agree wu is being scummy", i thought it would be understood from when i said i'd agree to vote him

[Datisi]

I don't even remember you saying that but point taken

wait no, brainfart, 376 is about tenebro, not generalwu

point still stands that at some point after i read your case, i did open wu's iso, go "huh, this do be looking like empty shitposting", and then did not comment about it

[Datisi]

i've been defending monkey?

[Datisi]

- this in some ways reads like an OmGUS-y reaction to them voting you a few posts prior
- i still disagree with you that his vote was indicative of a 'scummy lack of boldness' and not wanting to stand out when you hadnt had much pressure at the time
- i obviously do not expect a super strong case on p4, and i would habe been fine if you had just said it was A Ping, but the reasoning you're giving doesnt make sense to me as something you actually thought at the time
- you seem to be getting kinda testy / sensitive that i'm pursuing this line of questioning ...

- just because i voted them after they voted me doesn't mean it was omgus... like you can claim it is you want, and i can't prove it wasn't because i can't prove what i was thinking, but like; even if it were omgus, that is scummy why exactly? like you don't get to make such blanket statements about me

- i was the person with the most pressure at the time (and before someone starts crying how this is a contradiction because i called yeet's push a meme - just because it was the most pressure doesn't mean it was actually a lot of it), and okay.

- ok, what is the difference between me just saying it was a ping and me actually explaining the thought process behind the ping? also, what about "there's a person continuously attacking me, and then there's a person who jumps into the game, says one throwaway line on why i'm scummy and votes me, and the latter is more likely to be scum trying to fit in and attack a popular target, but also make it seem like there was Original Thought Process behind their attack" doesn't make sense?

- yeah no shit i'm getting testy. same question at the first point: why is that scummy? did i miss some new towntisi meta where i as town don't get annoyed at garbage pushes at me?

[Datisi]

if i didn't know who monkey was, i'd scumread the shit out of that slot -

but unless he has massively fallen out of shape, i'm just puzzled at his play here

Can u elaborate plz?

i played a game where scum!monkey was really good

so i didn't think this is scum!him shitting the game when i'm aware he knows how to play scum

but (1) that game was like 2 years ago, (2) nero gave me a counterexample (that i did not read through tbf, but i'm assuming he wouldn't lie about it) so lol

[Datisi]

i had A Thought about this game but i forgor it in the 3 minutes it took me to return to this tab

[Datisi]

wait no i rember

I'm saying that it looked like a snap-reaction to a vote on him that he has no good reasoning for, yes

this is like, again, ignoring the basics of how i play scum and how much i plan things through and how much i value having an explainable thought process about my posts and votes and etc

so like the idea that i would snap vote someone because lol haha omgus and not have a reason read why i'm voting them and then go back later on to try to retcon it is like bonkers, and i don't believe skitter like, actually believes that's how i play lol

[Datisi]

there's a person who jumps into the game, says one throwaway line on why i'm scummy and votes me, and the latter is more likely to be scum trying to fit in and attack a popular target, but also make it seem like there was Original Thought Process behind their attack"

Because i think you were overestimating how much of a target you were at the time, and how likely scum are to be trying to 'fit in' there by voting you, and i dont know why that universe was more likely than them being town and just not liking one of your posts

And yeah i think you getting this annoyed is more indicative of scum-you, see: recent open wherein you became conciliatory (i.e. vs testy) when you got scumread

and again, why are you assuming that this is supposed to be like, lockscum pack it up boys case

ajkndjbfdkjf

like, how i imagine town enters the game where they have a scumread on a person that is currently being pressured. they will either (a) quietly vote the person to add pressure and say minimal stuff about them, or (b) add a decent amount of content (page-appropriate ofc) onto their push. the fact that he did something *in between* is markers of a scum mindset imo - it shows that he doesn't want to take too much responsibility for pushing me if i happen to flip (so he can't do (b)), but also doesn't wanna seem like scum who's braindead sheeping someone (so he can't do (a))

like OBVIOUSLY this isn't super strong but it's a start. and i see no reason why not to vote there and explore that start. like do you think i'm not aware that reasoning is not very strong??

and after googling both conciliatory and testy... you sure? i'm pretty sure i started voting you there pretty early on after you did some nonsense push on me

[Datisi]

If this is a thing i'm supposed to know about your scumgame, i dont

didn't you mod like my first scumgame on the site

i'm pretty sure i mentioned this fact at least a few times, the most recent being in that 1v1 with andres, i thought i also mentioned it during schadd's pyp?

[Datisi]

like OBVIOUSLY this isn't super strong but it's a start. and i see no reason why not to vote there and explore that start. like do you think i'm not aware that reasoning is not very strong??

You called him 'probably not town' for his vote on you, which to me seems like you had a p strong read on him ...

And also even if you believe in super clean trajectories, i'm not sure like scum-you would have had such a strong thought process behind your p3 vote that you probably did not expect would elicit much scrutiny or such a response ...

because god forbid i project more confidence than i really have in order to get the game going?

i'm not sure what you're saying here - you don't think scum-me would have such a strong thought process, so do you think i'm town then? (i'm assuming not, i just like, don't get that sentence at all...) and like, i'm pretty sure scum!me would have been aware that i would get questioned after making an unexplained vote while being under a lot of suspicion?

[Datisi]

i understand the irony of yelling "i'm not upset!!" at being accused of being upset but like

this is not how i look like when i am upset >_>

[Datisi]

dats tell me you're town again? : )

i'm town, and i will do all that i can to protect this town and you : >

[Datisi]

15 pages practically all about me? y'all are too kind.

i skimmed, and i was planning to just respond to things that were about me, but then i realized a *lot* of the things are about me. so i'll get to this when i'm back home today.

[Datisi]

sup fucks, i'm back from my classes, i'm sure y'all are very happy to hear that

Datisi night actualky be scum, though. I need to look at that slot again.

What made you post this?

I said I disagreed with her scumreads which I thought were wrong, went back to check if she was SRing anyone else and noticed she was voting Datisi.

what made you change your mind from "i don't see what people see in datisi" or whatever the hecc it was

[Datisi]

nero, if you wanna tell me something, can you use more than a single word?

[Datisi]

So Datisi makes no attempt to pressure my slot even though he admits it's scummy, and didn't attempt to parse even further when prompted by Nero. No hot takes and no solves, just unproductive questions thus far.

this is like, one of those times where i want to ask - what do you expect me to pressure you about? your slot is scummy because you dropped into the game, made a pretty much meme push on me, threw weak questions at ari, and left when she voted you. there is nothing to parse there, you and i both know that you're a better scum player than that, so it's not like i can actually draw a "well he's scum completely fucking up the game, gg" conclusion from that. and the only possible pressure i can put on you is general "what are your reads", which like. i find more value in seeing what you come up with yourself than what you come up with if i'm yelling at you about it.

Content to just push on players who are getting attention thrown their way and I haven't really gotten the impression that it's a town tell of "Pressuring for information" from them.

i have seriously pushed two (2) people, only one of which could even be classified as someone getting attention their way (and even then i was the first to pressure them!) so this is a bunch of bullshit

why is it not noob town trying to scumhunt?

tell me you didn't understand my post without telling me - because town, noob or otherwise, isn't capable of getting cognitively overloaded. andeven if it were a reaction test, noob town isn't gonna do such a complex reaction test. and deasvail isn't a noob. so like what is the point of this question.

[Datisi]

reading through page 22, i'm townreading ari and scumreading monkey. jury's still out whether i'm getting biased because of his nonsense read on me, though.

537 is what i'm thinking reading though so that's goodposting
and 555

561 feels like a mischaracterization of what ari's point actually was there and what she was really doing, so this is a note for me to take another look later on about whether tenebro's progression on my slot checks out - that vote back to me once i started picking up votes again felt icky

Town lean on VP. I don't care about what reads he has here, but he took the time to explain them which I don't think scum would do at this point given that many players are posting read lists that are not explained at all.

i think baltar would have really good reasons to force himself to post a nice readslist early on in the game too, so i don't think that's especially townie

@baltar, is there a reason why you did not include me in the early readslist? i see you have a null category, and pretty sure i had posted at the time

can i find any townies in this game, blease

Datisi hit me up when you're here

you're gonna get hit up don't ya worry

ok i'm at like page 28 and i have to stop for now, will be back in like 20 minutes

[Datisi]

Nordom, who is scum?

Uh, Daitisi I guess, but I'm waiting for them respond.

who?

also, respond to what? you didn't ask me anything

It is interesting that Datisi is pretty much universally very unpopular today (except in Aristeia’s eyes, but I worry she may be biased. Nevertheless I am still keeping her opinion very much in mind because I presume she knows him well).

where are you doing this, exactly? you've started tunnelling me from the start of the game, you never actually gave a concrete reason why i'm scum, and you never re-evaluated in thread. so like... what exactly are you doing?

(also you never put an avatar on >_>)

I think we should mount the pressure on Datisi sooner rather than later.

Let’s get some wagons going, guys. I don’t want to stall around all day and move last minute and scramble when we can just go sheep sheep sheep.

"i'm keeping ari's thoughts in mind... but also, everyone, turn your brain off and sheep me on this read i gave no reasoning for!!"

[Datisi]

Overall, I find it helpful when I have a big catch up like that to take notes and sort how I feel about people. I just decided to post my hip-shot notes in thread.

I don't mind changing my reads if something shifts for me.

...

I think we should mount the pressure on Datisi sooner rather than later.

Being real with you, it's unlikely I ever support a D1 Datisi wagon.

... (but louder this time)

[Datisi]

What's the bullet point case on datisi again?

Basically, Daitisi was one to throw their hat into the popular pressure of Wu and Monkey. It just came off as lazy and convenient to me.

that's not my name

did you actually read this game or did you just read a bad cliffnotes version in the scum pt? i said that i find monkey scummy on the surface but that i'm aware it doesn't automatically make him scum since i know he's better than that. and i agreed with generalwu's iso being bad. that's it. this post is kinda implying that i did not do anything else this game up until that point (due to the "lazy" comment), which like??? push on tenebro? push on skitter? HE-LLO?

Pressure, throwing shade, what does it matter? My point is that he felt to give attention to him when Monkey was an obvious player of contention. If it were a "passing observation" it'd be one thing, but he felt that he had to get involved in the process with the pressure on Monkey. It wouldn't be such a red flag with me, but Datisi was also involved with the shit with Wu, which I felt was a weak push in the first place.

lol the backpedalling

again, i said the shitty iso up until that point didn't make him scum (he probably is scum, but not because of that part). and where did i "get involved"? i had like, at most ONE post on generalwu, and that post happened after i got shit for

ignoring

nero's case on wu! like

[Datisi]

i was expecting you'd at least catch that the second one is meant to ask "what/how/why?"

the first one is me wondering whether you've been studying guardians and are trying to purposefully drop as many things that you know i consider towntells from you as you can

[Datisi]

Datisi hasn't pressured me actually. Which makes me suspicious because if Datisi remembers me as the one who "ripped through town" in that one game, then he must have due cause to pressure me. Also, when prompted by Nero, he gave up assessing my meta at the mere sight of the word "daddy". I believe Datisi would have spent some proper time sorting me. Datisi is also bolder to announce his reads, however bad. He also tries to create a townblock in my experience. That doesn't happen here. His participation does not influence this game, which is pinging my bottom.

oh bOY WHEre to start

there is nothing to pressure you on. i remember you as a good scum player, yes. so when i see a good scum player shitting the bed, that doesn't make me wanna pressure them, that makes me wanna leave them alone to see what is up. and you had no substance for me to pressure you over anyway.

i don't do second-hand meta, i've said this many times in prior games. i never intended to actually read your iso there or whatever, i just opened it because i bored and wanted to see if anything interesting would catch my attention. the beginning of your iso did. so i made a funny post about it. then i lost interest in it.

have i not been announcing my reads? and like, "he tries to create a townblock and he's not doing that here" is kinda bad reasoning because we played 2 micro blitz games like 2 years ago, where i wasn't constantly getting shit on from the get-go. do you think that maybe, just maybe, any of those factors influence the way i play? of course you don't, you jumped to "datisi scum" because you need some bullshit to push

[Datisi]

If Datisi's replies in a satisfactory manner, I'm switching my vote to VP.

VOTE: nordom

gee, i wonder where i saw this kinda reasoning before

last two games i saw a post like this, it came from scum both times

(i'm not yet certain if i wanna end up on nordom, but this feels fitting to change now, both as a scumread on nordom and as a not-quite-scumread-anymore on skitter)

[Datisi]

I assume Datisi is able to create a townblock because that's how i remember his playstyle in early games.

9-player games
that had a 3-day deadline
where i wasn't getting constantly shit on right out of the gate

bruh

[Datisi]

i was expecting you'd at least catch that the second one is meant to ask "what/how/why?"

the first one is me wondering whether you've been studying guardians and are trying to purposefully drop as many things that you know i consider towntells from you as you can

On why I wouldn't vote you: I think if you're town, you're a huge asset so it is nonsense to lim you early game. If you're scum, that is likely to get sorted by night actions, or the number of people in this game who can read you correctly more often than not. So yeah, pretty anti-D1 dats lim unless there was an EXTREMELY compelling case.

On the notes, vote changing. It did occur to me when I posted my notes that if I was scum I would totally do that to subliminally get you on my side because of Guardians, so you probably should disregard that as a towntell going forward. What I said in Guardians is true...I take notes as town, especially on catch ups, and talk in the PT as scum, but we explicitly talked about that in Guardians so it is entirely WIFOM at this point.

so i'm not yet openwolfing hard enough for you to consider yeeting me? noted

it's not just that, it's also the usage of "hip-shot" wording (yes, in fact, i am aware that suspecting someone for reusing a phase they once used in a game of mafia like a year ago is bonkers, shut the fuck up), and the fact you made sure to say the word "notes" twice

and it's like

if you're scum, obviously you want me to townread you. but, you know that those tiny bits of my "things that town!vp does" list won't help you because we both know they're on that list. bUT ALSO, you know that i know that. so now i'm like, would scum!baltar purposefully drop these little hints, *knowing* that i'm gonna notice them and start losing sleep over them, in order to get into my head?

because i know how much you wanna fool me, but my issue is, like, in the times when i first noticed you doing these tells, they felt more natural. like it made sense for you to bring up notes at the time in oligarchy or guardians because you were catching up on a lot. but here, they were mentioned in the context of a readslist from a half-shitposty first 10 pages of a game. and the "changing votes" thing, originally they were said with much more confidence and self-assurance that i've noticed town!baltar has, while here they just feel said to make sure they've been said

[Datisi]

Hey Datisi, what are your thoughts on what I said about fua while I have you here?

i'mma keep it real, i kinda skimmed over them because i was trying to make sure i'm up-to-date on major events, especially those concerning my slot

vaguely going from memory, i'd say "the reasoning seemed fine but i'm not overly convinced by it", but i plan on going back and rechecking some slots, that included in my tenebro re-eval, so

also i'm gonna finally go eat something, later

[Datisi]

not in of itself

you did use it in some towngames when announcing your readslists, and i can imagine scum!baltar going through his old town games with me and noting down the phrases used in order to Emulate The Townfeels

[Datisi]

I didn't think Daitsi would expose themselves so easily in going for the popular lynch once again.

Are you going to vote me yet?

he doesn't even know my name and he's not bothering to even read my responses, instead just going "datisi scum tho", of course he won't

[Datisi]

"datisi is going for popular wagons of wu and monkey"

"that's wrong, i was going after tene and skitt, and i was the first on both of those wagons. and, i specifically said monkey's posting doesn't make him town, and i commented about wu *after being asked to*, so what you on about?"

"datisi failed spectacularly"

lol

[Datisi]

Why are you appealing to VP though?

because he's around and he is actually reading the game

[Datisi]

you did not, but for the record, where is that "explanation" so that i can point out why you're full of shit?

[Datisi]

I think you're deliberately trying to discredit me here, which town would not do!

town that's currently a leading wagon who's being wagoned for nonsense would not try to discredit someone who continuously makes bad faith arguments at them and refuses to actually explain their "thought process"! y'all heard it here first, folks!

[Datisi]

you did not, but for the record, where is that "explanation" so that i can point out why you're full of shit?

I'm really this hard mafia to you?

not necessarily, town can *sometimes* make extremely shitty arguments. the fact that i'm willing to even entertain the idea should tell you you're not in lockscum territory yet.

[Datisi]

Although, I am curious here. If Datisi maf, why decide to push on me? Did they believe I was some noob that could get punted aside or is this a genuine town?

what happened do me being scum who's going for all the easiest votes?

and i'm not answering that until you point out where you explained the wu/monkey thing. good faith needs to go both ways, sorry.

[Datisi]

My only solid scum read right now is Deas.

assuming this isn't another misspell of "datisi", when did this start and why are you not acting like it?

[Datisi]

so why are you acting as if you have a hard guilty on me if i'm not even a confident mafia read for you?

pedit: @nordom

[Datisi]

i think? nordom is townie for going back and actually reading what my actions were (and openly contrasting them at the time i'm getting attacked)

i don't think a newer scum player decides to white knight me at this time when a couple of people have come out to voice their support of me

[Datisi]

i think? malcolm* is townie lmfao

[Datisi]

What actions from you did I even address?

that was a mistype, but you bring out a good point against yourself

I'm still not particularly sure what the consistent case against you is meant to be at this point?

neither am i!!

Malcom, I think you're getting too over-excited in the pants from Datisi's lazy town read on you. You gotta dig deeper.

conveniently ignoring facts (malcolm was townreading me FAR before i was townreading him) in order to throw shitty shade? gee, i wonder what nordom would think if he read your post...

[Datisi]

Datisi's omgus is just garbage though. No question about it.

the link to where you "explained" the "datisi is pushing the popular wu/monkey" wagons is coming when...? the explanation why you're claiming you most strongly scumread deas but are apparently dead set on arguing with everything i say when...?

[Datisi]

is 234 townie? probably not. do i wanna townread it anyway? yeah.

That's literally a copypasta T.T

that does not change my view

i understand the irony of yelling "i'm not upset!!" at being accused of being upset but like

this is not how i look like when i am upset >_>

How do you look like when you're being upset?

remember newbie 1992? that

If those particular sentences managed to offend anybody, then I think that person needs to grow a thicker skin.

not a game related comment: i do find those comments quite disgusting and uncomfortable and you should refrain from commenting things like that in the future.

[Datisi]

Wu was the pressure push and Monkey was just the idle comment because he was a popular choice at the time.

i made one (1) post on wu, AFTER being asked my opinion. and i did not call monkey scum, quite the opposite, i said i don't think those weird posts make him scum. all while pushing skitter and tenebro, who i was first on.

can you acknowledge the above, and then tell me whether you still think i was making "lazy convenient reads on wu and monkey"?

[Datisi]

i'm done talking to you.

[Datisi]

i like vpb's readlist

what do you like about it?

[Datisi]

yes. because at this point i have no conclusion other than that you're scum trying to provoke me into saying anything that you could twist to attack me with. there is no good faith from you.

[Datisi]

"i'm being censored because i can't hurl insults as i see fit!" is a bad take, fam. can we not?

[Datisi]

it's not my intention >_> sorry

[Datisi]

sup fucks, i'm back from my classes, i'm sure y'all are very happy to hear that

Datisi night actualky be scum, though. I need to look at that slot again.

What made you post this?

I said I disagreed with her scumreads which I thought were wrong, went back to check if she was SRing anyone else and noticed she was voting Datisi.

what made you change your mind from "i don't see what people see in datisi" or whatever the hecc it was

i'm currently going through some isos, fua, can you answer this pls?

[Datisi]

i'd ask what from 1026 to 1028 made him change his mind, but i'm almost certain i'd just get snark as a response...

[Datisi]

it's weird how a page 40-something readslist feels like a very early game one, but whatever

closer to the left edge you are, more i townread you
closer to the right edge you are, more i scumread you
higher up you are, the bigger the headache you give me

Spoiler:

some stuff i feel like i should comment on
- fua doesn't give me pings one way or another. like, i see what vp is saying, and i would not be surprised if they're scum, but also, like, not insanely convincing.
- deas feels town not for the nordom read (though it does vibe townie), mostly the vote-unvote of eyes felt... i dunno, not like something scum thinks to fake? like why would he be making up a townread on a slot that isn't even playing if he's scum, doesn't feel necessary
- tenebro and malcolm feel like the same alignment, most probably tvt but i could imagine them being svs, not sure why. anyway, no concrete read on tenebro, but gut tells me to townlean them for now.

i will try to take a break from this game until later on tonight because i have been avoiding my work the whole day lmao

pedit: rip i guess
anyway

[Datisi]

i'm sorry ari, i'm slightly paranoid you're so strongly defending me because you know i'm town and want me to like you :<

[Datisi]

oof on that VP read and Scorpious read.

the scorpious read is something i call the luca blight tell (which, to be fair, has failed me once before, but we do not talk about that)

do you think i should be townreading you?

[Datisi]

(before you ask, the tell is that if someone is mostly lurking, and when they post they're mostly shitposting without trying to appear townie, they're more likely town. this does not apply to players like not_mafia.

it also does not necessarily apply to scorpious, because i've seen fua say he always plays like this, and i don't have the knowledge to know whether he'd play like this as scum, which is why it's only weakly town!indicative)

[Datisi]

i'm sorry ari, i'm slightly paranoid you're so strongly defending me because you know i'm town and want me to like you :<

those things are both true when I am town as well dear

you do not know if i'm town when you are town, though

[Datisi]

you did yell at me quite a bit a few times :c

but yeah, i was using the strict definition of "know".

[Datisi]

do you think i should be townreading you?

obviously.

let me rephrase that: do you think that your play so far this game would be townread by towntisi? (inb4 "r u calling urself scum" yes, i know the question implies i'm mafia, i don't know how else to ask it, shut up)

[Datisi]

Hipshots!

you used that word in 2195!! therefore it only makes sense you would use it again in an attempt to emulate the feeling of your townself from that game!!

i'll come back to the rest of that after a certain thing happens.

[Datisi]

VOTE: monkey

[Datisi]

Not sure i agree with this tell tbh

that is solely luca's fault, then.

can you respond to 999?

[Datisi]

not to play the devil's advocate or anything, but i don't think "this person is the most suspected, also they need more" is like, an actual contradiction or a problem

i do have issues with other parts of his play but you know

[Datisi]

Ah i thought i answered that earlier and that you would see it when you continued reading

I liked that a lot of his reads matched what i was thinking at the time, in particular that we shared a lot of townreads

i don't see where you responded to that earlier but maybe i'm blind idk

anyway, now that you have replied

i was thinking that the readslit is kinda odd because it was made when he read through only 10 pages, when the game was at page 21. which just like. why would you post a readslist when you're not actually caught up on half the game and it might be outdated or irrelevant by the time you actually catch up proper. and coupled with the fact that most of the reads were extremely... simple, i guess? which like, in of itself isn't a problem for a page 10 readslist, but that coupled with the fact that the game was on page 21, and the fact that he never gave an updated version, made me think that he did it because he thought it's expected of him rather than because he felt it in his soul that he should make a list

i think that i mentioned this to eyes, kinda? that they shouldn't townread him For The Readslist

okay, after writing this stuff out, i remember he did say he was reading along and was tired (910), which maybe kinda could be explained if he didn't feel like reading the rest of the game, so maybe this isn't as strong as i thought, but like yeah anyway.

[Datisi]

not to play the devil's advocate or anything, but i don't think "this person is the most suspected, also they need more" is like, an actual contradiction or a problem

i do have issues with other parts of his play but you know

Are you talking about Yeet?

ye, that is kind of a response to 1139 and 1149

[Datisi]

my lukewarm take is that those returning posts from wu are not townie at all, and in fact might even be scum!indicative considering they're a half-baked take that don't seem to be applicable to the game (or like, that he's not applying) and a fencesit read on nero

but something something bigger scum to fry very little info etc

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

unsurprisingly, i have a lot of problems with math's view on the game, but i do not have the time right now to argue with him

[Datisi]

The game wagoned two masons.

considering both of you were unclaimed, this isn't really any different than the game wagoning any to random townies but ok

[Datisi]

any two random townies*

[Datisi]

the idea that two people were wagoned and then the wagons moved elsewhere is 100% evidence that there is scum in the first two names because why else would one of the first wagons in the game not go through!?!?! is like, wrong on so many fronts

i don't feel like arguing with math too much considering i just got out of a game where i was arguing a lot with him and he was "conftown" and it made the game much more complicated than it needed to be, but

i will definitely still call him out and not let him blindly push the game

[Datisi]

i did not see anything

i'm alright, i have a three-day weekend coming up so i'm looking forward to finally catching up on sleep. today is gonna be kinda meh though, got a class i am not looking forward to >_>

[Datisi]

Scum are on me and Monkey.
They didn’t push you/Wu hard
So yes scum is likely in the pair of you
Otherwise no need to invent a push on my predecessor who was annoying not scum
HEM was/is inactive and new not scummy

i did get pushed quite hard, but ok

are there absolutely no player overlap between the me/wu and you/monkey wagons?

and even then, it doesn't prove jack shit because it's possible town just decided they didn't wanna push me/wu anymore and decided to push elsewhere and scum just followed because they didn't care, or they stayed on me/wu (i think i still have some votes?), or they didn't even bother

like you're always running the assumption that scum is these masterminds who are planning each amd every action in advance and are always looking to hold complete control over the game thread when like

lazy or lurking scum is present in almost every team which you somehow never seem to acknowledge

like if you actually read the game, you'd know why the wagon moved off of me, i went from being scummy to being townie, and either town realized that they're wrong or scum realized they lost their push. it doesn't necessarily mean anything ai.

[Datisi]

like again i really do not wanna get into a huge back and forth with you but i find it insane how you can just conclude these things as gospel when they require so many assumptions that are frankly not even likely to be correct

[Datisi]

I can see town doing it
I don’t see scum doing it

???????

why would scum *not* do it?

[Datisi]

fire is saying things that i wanna say, but better

they can be my math-related lawyer for the next few hours

[Datisi]

i find it entertaining how in a previous 9:12 game, i said how math's vca was wrong because it was perfectly possible for scum to lazyvote their partner and not push it

and i got shut down because that's really good scumplay and people usually don't do really good scumplay

but now he's outright denying that the most common scum strategy is looking town and that scum almost never does both looking town and planning in advance and making all those complex ploys and never votes a wagon for the heck of it, especially so early in the game

but anyway yell at me if i talk about this again

btw who do you want to vote for now?

wu/std/yeet actually, but (1) i haven't actually read the 12 or so pages that happened while i was sleeping (2) i want to relook at the wagons again for myself now that we have two mason claims

so that pool is not guaranteed

[Datisi]

but i dont expect you to agree with that because it would mean you'd be scum, Datisi.

i actually do currently think wu might be scum here

i disagree because i've been in a few games with math and i he keeps spewing wild vca and other theories based on how he imagines scum operates which doesn't have to be, and often isn't correct

[Datisi]

i guess mostly i'm questioning why people had her pegged as strong town, maybe that can help me see it from a different POV

as one of the people that have her pegged as town, the tldr of my reasons is mostly that her conversation with you felt genuine to me, and she was saying a lot of the things that i ended up thinking while reading through that convo

i also don't think she'd have much of a reason to defend me if she were scum since she sometimes misreads town!me, so not like i had a bop on her or anything

i think i had one or two other minor reasons that i do not remember right now, i can go through her iso later if you want

[Datisi]

like i know this might not be super helpful since it's coming from my pov but yeah

pedit: she 100% was buddying me, but she always does that regardless of alignment

to answer your actual question, not really. there was some general "what if she's defending me to white knight me!?!" paranoia, but when baltar said how he thought he wouldn't call someone out in my defense while i wasn't around as scum, i thought how that could as well apply to her

ppedit: the above pedit is re 1626

[Datisi]

It’s a pretty outlandish claim all of herself, VP, Skitter, Datisi, fire, and Yeet are all town.
It’s even more outlandish DV, tene, Cape, and Nero are all town.

how is the second *more* outlandish? you think it's more likely there was scum on you than on monkey?

[Datisi]

ackvhually it would be assuming 9 not 10

but also i thought it was assuming 4 vs 5 as opposed to 9 vs 5 so don't mind me

[Datisi]

math, how much on your read of me is based on vca vs actually reading the game? because this is a bit frustrating

[Datisi]

naw, any solve without Skitter or VP is wrong.

?

[Datisi]

Like Skitter hasn’t had a “ping” she gets pings. It’s weird.

what does this mean?

and like, the rest of your post could be easily explained by different circumstances that precedent, especially for what i imagine happened in the mason pt, but

idk if i have it in me rn to argue

[Datisi]

*pops in*

anyone thinks how it makes no sense for scum!ari to purposefully act contrarian to the mason + other pushes and avoid doing what they are asking her to do at the time a wagon is rapidly building on her? no? just me? ok

*pops back out*

[Datisi]

*pops in*

anyone thinks how it makes no sense for scum!ari to purposefully act contrarian to the mason + other pushes and avoid doing what they are asking her to do at the time a wagon is rapidly building on her? no? just me? ok

*pops back out*

but maybe it does make sense if she thinks that you'll think it makes no sense...

how often do you actually see scum use the "i will purposefully act scummy here in order for people to start wondering whether i would be acting scummy like this here and to unvote me!!"

well ok i sometimes do that, but other than me

[Datisi]

the main motivation is to pretend like they're town, right? so it always makes sense in that regard.

not if nobody is buying it

and by the looks of it, i am the first one to even bring up the possibility that ari as scum probably wouldn't be running around ignoring requests from math and nero because it's just making them more likely to want to kill her

[Datisi]

why would town!ari be purposefully contrarian anyway?

i'm not saying she'd purposefully do that

i'm saying there's much easier avenues to take as scum if your objective is to, you know, not die, as opposed as town who just wants to push what they believe in

[Datisi]

scorpious, do you have a single read this game or are you just gonna throw unhelpful posts

[Datisi]

i'm saying there's much easier avenues to take as scum if your objective is to, you know, not die, as opposed as town who just wants to push what they believe in

so what about now that she seemed to have been making one all along

i don't think it took her 20 minutes to make that

point still stands that math/nero are like "who are you scumreading in the group of 10" and she is outright refusing to actually talk about it or push anyone there

scum does that because...?

[Datisi]

like if ari was a newb scum player, i'd agree this is scummy af because i can definitely see newbs freeze under pressure and antispew bc they fear they're gonna die

but like, ari isn't newbscum

[Datisi]

She thinks she is gonna die and doesn’t wanna give anything away

1765

[Datisi]

p sure skitter and datisi both have that reputation but i could be wrong on that cause ive never played with them, just read some

out of curiosity, which games of mine did you read?

[Datisi]

I'm actually fairly accurate as town and I was defending you here b4 u voted Scorp so...

we've played together once and you loudly insisted I was mafia and then self-hammered yourself and wanted me/datisi flipped the next day(which was mylo) and we were both town so that's not really my experience with you.

if that progression from nero is accurate, then that's actually Not A Good Look from him (am i cool for using popular lingo)

like, the "this person pushed someone who was lurking in a 2k posts game therefore they're scum" is actually a very level zero take that ignores context of "people are specifically pressuring her to give reads on the active part of the game, and of course that would make her not look good"

[Datisi]

VOTE: nero cain

fortune favours the italic or something like that

[Datisi]

which also looks like nero did not even believe in his og skitt/vp mysterious read and is fine flipping on a dime for a very weak reason

[Datisi]

I don't think that voting scorp was a very townie vote. Why is that scum logic?

it's not, that's the point

anyone who has played more than 15 minutes of this game knows that it's not a townie vote

so i guarantee you ari knows that too

so why does scum!ari purposefully do something scummy like that which she is probably aware is gonna land her in even hotter water?

it's level zero logic you're using

[Datisi]

that i think scum uses in order to find a new push, as opposed to a town who is interested in solving this game we call mafia

etc you get it

[Datisi]

that i think scum uses in order to find a new push, as opposed to a town who is interested in solving this game we call mafia

So I needed to continue to push that at least one of skitter/vp was scum instead of consolidating onto a wagon that I agree with?

not necessarily

my main problem isn't that you unvoted skitt/vp, it's that you voted ari for very crappy reasons when her wagon started gaining traction

[Datisi]

because scum purposefully does the blatantly scummy thing when they're faced with pressure, right

[Datisi]

because scum purposefully does the blatantly scummy thing when they're faced with pressure, right

and she couldn't do that b/c?

i'm not saying she *couldn't* do that

i'm saying there's no scum motivation for her to do that because it almost always (unless the majority of the players are like me, which they aren't) results in her getting more pressure and more likely to die

and i'm fairly certain she knows that

so why does scum!her do that?

[Datisi]

The case you’re making right now about that being a pro-town response proves the point that there is scum motivation behind that.

this goes back to what i said earlier, what is scum more likely to do? play traditionally townie or do a weird strategy that appears scummy, is guaranteed to get more attention towards them, and hinges on the fact that someone goes "hold on, it doesn't make sense for scum to do this..."

like banking on that as scum is extremely risky and doesn't make sense

[Datisi]

so why does scum!her do that?

so u chainsaw defend her

"hey ari, i see you're under pressure... can you act scummy and contrarian so that you get more attention your way, and then i'm gonna drop in and say how it doesn't make sense for scum!you to act like that! i am guaranteed to manage to change everyone's mind and it doesn't tie us together at all!"

yep, checks out

[Datisi]

never accused you of being scum together. Just that you are attacking me for attacking Ari.

chainsaw defending = scum attacking someone who's pushing their buddy

[Datisi]

math, over half the game has already painted you like that...

[Datisi]

i mean, @nero your statement then still doesn't make sense, because again, ari would have to magically know that i would be the person to conclude "hey, this doesn't make sense from scum" (and frankly not even i myself can predict my own behaviour that well), and she'd have to be hoping that my arguing is gonna be loud enough to overturn most of the game

which does not make sense

[Datisi]

as an escape route. that landed her into more pressure.

[Datisi]

she voted Scorp for ???? reason. You attacking me for voting Ari has shit all to do with her.

you're right, it has to do with you changing your read from town to scum for a bad reason on a player that started picking up steam

pedit: why

[Datisi]

as an escape route. that landed her into more pressure.

Yeah. Just because she thought it would work doesn’t mean it would.

not doing what the conftown player tells you to do and instead being contrarian to them lands you into pressure? wow what a surprise, i'm sure she'd had no idea that would be the end result

[Datisi]

Why can't Ari just be like ya know, scum that ploped down a vote on a somewhat EZ to wagon player in an attempt to save herself b/c you know he's EZ?

because no townie in their right mind would go "hey, this person that's being suspected voted a lhf player, let's vote out the lhf player instead!"?

[Datisi]

Why can't Ari just be like ya know, scum that ploped down a vote on a somewhat EZ to wagon player in an attempt to save herself b/c you know he's EZ?

You're pulling me around to the idea

frogs, please use your fucking brain

ari sees she's getting pressure for "not having reads" and "not voting on the math/monkey wagons"

so her response is to lolvote a lurker and make no attempt to actually address the things that are being asked of her and that she's suspected for??? that doesn't make sense unless coming from the noobiest of scums

and she isn't that

[Datisi]

This point has been refuted several times.

it hasn't been refuted well

[Datisi]

i opened one of those links, i saw nero commenting how he's hesitant on the monkey wagon because the wagon was too fast

fucking lol

[Datisi]

large theme

uh, you know something that i don't?

it pains me to say, math might actually be right on this one front though, i may be a hypocrite >_>

[Datisi]

i know, i'm teasing you

[Datisi]

Ari is scum and when asked to explain their reads throws a hisssy fit? I kinda think that scum would have reacted in a more "pro-town" manner.

what happened to town!nero?

[Datisi]

i opened one of those links, i saw nero commenting how he's hesitant on the monkey wagon because the wagon was too fast

fucking lol

but I was right so........

the point was that ari's wagon is speedy as well :upside_down_emoji:

[Datisi]

Ari is scum and when asked to explain their reads throws a hisssy fit? I kinda think that scum would have reacted in a more "pro-town" manner.

what happened to town!nero?

If you read that and you thought my take away is

Ari is scum

then either your reading comprehension sucks. (you are ESL though right?) or you are straight-up lying.

i read that and i thought your take away is that ari is town

and i'm asking what has happened to that town!nero, where did he go

pedit: fireisredsir should be my lawyer for everything this game

[Datisi]

What is the case on Ari? I'm going to give up on reading pages of spam shitting from a bunch of people.

she refused to do what math told her to (push someone that was on the math/monkey wagon) and she voted scorp

[Datisi]

This game has quickly become a clown show of terrible play and it is annoying me.

this might be a new one

unless i'm misremembering that one vp scumgame that i was rereading at new years eve while roaming the foggy streets

i'll check later

[Datisi]

VOTE: wu

woo

[Datisi]

Means scum likely knew who we were already.

is it just me or is like, purposefully wagoning someone you know is a mason a HORRIBLE scum strategy? >_>

[Datisi]

Means scum likely knew who we were already.

is it just me or is like, purposefully wagoning someone you know is a mason a HORRIBLE scum strategy? >_>

It’s a good one I have seen successful.
It forces a second mason claim.

you're arguing scum knew both masons

so they decided to wagon both of you so that when both of you claim, they are left looking like shit and now you will attract any and all protectives in town and also openly lead the town during the day and ??? profit???

[Datisi]

Means scum on me and Monkey

even if this is taken as fact, from it it does not follow that "scum knew you two were masons, and then forced you to claim in order to make their own lives even more difficult"

like, if scum knew you were masons (and i really don't think they did because how could they), it seems much more likely to me they would let townies push you and wouldn't touch you because nothing good ever comes from that wagon

[Datisi]

vp baltar is my spirit animal

[Datisi]

I feel decent about Nero and Datisi being town now.

did you ever actually do the re-eval of me you said you would? link me if you did

[Datisi]

if we hadn't established that voting scorpious is a very bad no good thing, i would've probably tilt-voted him for 2011 because it feels like the pinnacle of unproductive filler

[Datisi]

huh.

is that why you were townreading baltar before he even posted in the main thread? i thought that was a mason soft, but then i gave up on the idea since i almost never catch mason softs correctly

also insert an obligatory "there is nothing saying there must be exactly 1 scum in the hood, that number could be anywhere from 0-4" argument here, but like imagine it's written a bit better, i'm tired

pedit: lmao "i claim pr", now i actually want to vote you

[Datisi]

your best n_m impression is not very good

also yeah obv don't vote the claimed vig, they get solved tonight, etc, see y'all tomorrow

[Datisi]

why are there only five pages for me to catch up on?? where are the nightly 20 pages that make me regret signing up to this site??? whatever

semi-mechanical

non-mechanical*

I really don't feel like defending skitter here because fuck if I am confident on her alignment, but I find the way nero has played this all day and dropping the neighborhood thing while skitter is VLA all weekend, and then pushing the wagon AGAIN away from Wu is hella sketchy.

Flipping Wu here seems like a much more logical play.

hmm

this makes me think, did skitter's wagon go up at like, any point other than last night? because it seems to me that nero had been arguing with her for a longer time, but the wagon only taking off now while she's vla feels like it should be indicative of *something*

vp baltar is my spirit animal

This comment is not w/w with VP

i find your assumption of my inability to do theatre insulting (not really)

So I think very much that Ari was being contrarian to Math because of the b a g g a g e. Personally, i think it would support the claim that it's non-ai. But it doesn't explain her belligerence towards me. It seems to me that it was a blanket strategy to anyone who she thinks she can push around. But saying that, i wonder what datisi thinks about ari's contrarianism now that it's been given full context.

i was very much present in the game where the math/ari shitfight took place, so i was aware of the context at the time. but it doesn't really change my view on her behaviour much? like, ari saw what happened last game, how math started tunnelling her and how much effort it took just to salvage the game in final 6 when math was dead set on voting out ari. so i think it's still fair to conclude that ari wouldn't purposefully be getting on his bad side as scum. the baggage point is... i dunno, if it's true that the whole thing was NAI and that ari was acting like that solely because of an outside grudge, then i kinda lose a bit of respect for her, but i'm really not sure it's the case.

I am not super sure what exactly makes me so town to you

this has made me realize that i do not remember why i was so town on cape

fucking lol at frogster saying the vig claim is "really townie"

bottom of pg 88, be back later

[Datisi]

Datisi, do you think it's possible scum!Aristeia acts like that towards town!Math to get people to believe she's acting the same way because she's town again? I don't remember the rules for theorizing about why she replaced (which I do have thoughts on) so I won't talk about that unless someone okays it. Also, as far as I remember Pooky is very good at faking emotions or channeling scum emotions in a townie way.

possibly? though i'm not sure how much of a +ev strategy that would be for scum!her, considering at the time that blowout happened, it was me, her, and math alive (out of people that are also playing this game), frogs had already replaced out i think, and i'm not sure how much skitt, nero, or vp were paying attention to the shitfest from the dead thread.

like, that's genuinely the only logic i can actually see behind scum!her acting the way she was acting this game, and i'll admit that it's not *impossible* for her to act that way, but like. idk, it doesn't seem likely to me still.

pooky is very good at faking emotions, yeah. i think he usually does it in a pocketing matter more so than... "scream at mathblade to get the attention on him" matter.

and i do think discussing repouts is against the rules.

[Datisi]

i find your assumption of my inability to do theatre insulting (not really)

It'd be fucking Broadway in here if we actually rolled scum together <333333

i'm gonna steal a joke from the worst

my postcount this game if i had rolled scum with baltar:

[Datisi]

this makes me think, did skitter's wagon go up at like, any point other than last night?

I think some people had mentioned Skitter being scum most notably Math and Fire for not doing her "ping" thing.

Can you link me a game or 2 that you played in where there was a hood?

thanks, i'll check that out.

normal games that i've played in that had a hood are:
viewtopic.php?t=80974 - 9p, town/town
viewtopic.php?t=82613 - 9p, town/scum
viewtopic.php?t=83045 - 9p, town/town
viewtopic.php?t=84455 - 13p, town/town
viewtopic.php?t=84322 - 12p, town/scum/scum

and one game which had a scum/scum hood of a scum and a traitor that i'm not really counting since it wasn't a hood in the usual sense.

so, yeah. i'm really not buying the notion that "there has to be scum in hood because *radio static*".

[Datisi]

i've read the remaining two pages, i don't think i have much to say that others haven't said yet. the "game progression" argument is like, whatever, i've seen townies use that before so i guess it's not implausible. though did you like, actually learn anything from the wagon on monkey?

maybe a more important q right now, why did you vote skitter in 2114? you didn't really mention her ever since lightly scumreading her back on the very early pages.

pedit: i guess this is a "explain the skitt scumread" post now

[Datisi]

and maybe elaborate on 2016, actually.

[Datisi]

it's not that i inherently have a problem with people voting someone they town lean for the greater good of the gamestate or whatever it is. but like, when townies do do that, i expect that they're actively paying attention to how the wagon does, who gets on or off, and are drawing conclusions from it, since it's not something they really like, want to be on. as opposed to scum who decided they're gonna do the "hehe i voted a townlean for the gamestate!" defense.

skitter is really good as town, yeah. the thing i'm thinking of right now is what i commented earlier, i find it weird that there was an actual wagon happening on her seemingly right after she went for a few-day-vla.

the ping tell is really entertaining to me because it reminds me of a game where bob and i were scum, and one of the townies was like "btw bob is scum because he said the word 'fellow' 14 times this game and he says that word more often as town than as scum" and i wanted to bang my head against the wall because it was such a caught for the wrong reasons thing when that game was a complete outlier

anyway, i'm not a huge fan of such takes because good scum (like skitter is) are generally perfectly able to replicate word tics like that so it's more likely to be a coincidence than an actual tell, as i once got townread by someone because i said "hot take" a few times and they looked at my games and concluded i only say that as town

i was scum that game

[Datisi]

VOTE: yeet

the "scum you doesn't act like that" comment is making me wonder if i know yeet (don't have to answer that), but it's also making me wonder if he realized that i'm like, not getting yeeted (haha) so he's looking for something to townread me

the "i vote wagons for that progress" defense can also only go on for so long

pedit: funny you should say that, uhh

wu might as well still be scum tho

the fact that wagons before got to like, 5 or 6 votes *at the same time*, while now wu/yeet wagons are at 6 votes total, is making me wonder whether scum wanted the earlier ones but didn't want these ones

that's vague vca theory for tomorrow maybe though

[Datisi]

and now, my best dkkoba impression:

scorpious post actual reads challenge (100% IMPOSSIBLE) (NOT CLICKBAIT) (GONE SEXUAL)

[Datisi]

skitter is really good as town, yeah. the thing i'm thinking of right now is what i commented earlier, i find it weird that there was an actual wagon happening on her seemingly right after she went for a few-day-vla.

Datisi there are 3 people on skitter's "wagon" and two of these people are close to confirmed town.

i am in fact aware of that (though there were more people on there previously)

it does not refute my point that it's odd how her wagon took off only once she went v/la and how it's much easier for scum to vote her once she's away. and how your progression on skitter is less than stellar.

[Datisi]

i mean, the argument that there is more town than scum motivation to do what you did is nice and all, but like, i don't *really* buy it? because my problem isn't with the fact that you voted monkey while he was a townlean for you for the sake of the gamestate, that's not a "wacky radical action that would be such a risk to take as scum" like you're making it out to be. my issue is that your followups didn't seem like those of a townie who decided to do that action. i get that this is a fast and spammy game. but i'd still expect more from someone who voted a wagon whose target they didn't agree with.

What issues do you have with my skitter progression now?

mostly with the fact that it's, uh, nonexistent. if i'm going by the reasons mentioned in 2268 - the first one, that she's underwhelming, is eyebrows-raising to me because you never actually mentioned any of that, even when nero was trying to build a wagon/pressure there, so it seems like retconing your read on her that you didn't really have. the ping tell and seeing other people vote there is... okay, i guess? the bigger problem i have is that i don't see a clean trajectory to back that vote up with.

[Datisi]

it does not refute my point that it's odd how her wagon took off only once she went v/la and how it's much easier for scum to vote her once she's away. and how your progression on skitter is less than stellar.

Ahem, your point?????


Anyhow, what is your read on skitter?

did i, completely accidentally, plagiarize someone?

i don't think it's changed much since i posted the triangle. i started requestioning my read on her because i know she can be really paranoid about my early game and think she's seeing scumtisi for the most bs reasons possible. and i also thought how it was odd she was cooling off from me when (iirc) my wagon was actively growing, actually? it felt like a weird and counter-productive time to start white-knighting me if she's scum. other than that, i've kinda tuned her out and don't feel a strong swing one way or the other.

[Datisi]

mostly with the fact that it's, uh, nonexistent. if i'm going by the reasons mentioned in 2268 - the first one, that she's underwhelming, is eyebrows-raising to me because you never actually mentioned any of that, even when nero was trying to build a wagon/pressure there, so it seems like retconing your read on her that you didn't really have. the ping tell and seeing other people vote there is... okay, i guess? the bigger problem i have is that i don't see a clean trajectory to back that vote up with.

So it's a bad trajectory because I voted first and then explained the vote after? If I explained the read before voting is that suddenly an okay trajectory now...??

no, it's not about when you explained the vote. it's about how your explanation claims that you were scumreading her play earlier on, but there is no evidence of that in your iso. coupled with the fact that there was actual opportunity for you to express that read (when nero was pushing her), it doesn't feel true.

[Datisi]

that's not a "wacky radical action that would be such a risk to take as scum" like you're making it out to be

How is it not when like half the game is turning against me now? As scum I technically couldn't have "known" for sure that this would happen, but... really?

is that why there is a wagon on you? if so, the that's... dumb. i don't find it to be scummy...

[Datisi]

did i, completely accidentally, plagiarize someone?

Me you scumfuck!

you said how it was weird that nero claimed the hood when she was vla!! that's completely different!!!

[Datisi]

When did I say I was scumreading her play earlier on (except for that 1 wording confusion)?

Skitter seems a bit underwhelming in general this game when I've heard as town she is basically a master scum crusher.

i know this isn't like, verbatim a scumread, but i still think it should've been mentioned *somewhere* when your iso shows no trace of thinking like this

[Datisi]

i mean, it didn't have to be. i don't post every single thought about the game i have, and i'm not saying it makes you lockscum. but i believe it makes you more likely to be scum and you're a viable wagon currently. so here we are.

[Datisi]

is there a chance you're town here? sure there is. but you'd need to show it to me by actually thinking through the game and showing a solvey thought process at certain parts, rather than defending yourself by arguing how there's a certain chance that you're town who did those things.

[Datisi]

You don't think I have been showing a solvy process at all this game...? Sure my recent posts have been focused on defense based on the circumstances, but I think I have been at various times been "solvey". I would say that's a strong characteristic of my towngame, so if truly aren't seeing solviness in my posts, I would objectively consider that a good reason to vote me.

it's not about your "solveyness" overall, it's about the fact i didn't really notice you drew a lot of conclusions from the monkey wagon (who you apparently had a townlean on), and i expect a townie who's voting a person who they townlean draw some. and also the skitter thing, which i'm not sure we can talk about much anymore because it feels like going in circles.

i think that's the most i'll get out of yeet's wagon. i'm not sold on the vote being 2 scummy 4 scum because it was a very self-conscious vote. regardless, if you feel like throwing your own parties, feel free.

datisi, you were here when i laid out my argument against yeet. what do you mean "that's the only reason for your wagon"?

i meant like, "if the only reason you are being voted is due to the fact you voted someone you were townleaning, that's dumb". there's more nuanced context there, though.

i also recalled there were two other people voting yeet besides you at the time i voted him, and i couldn't remember off the top of my head the exact reasoning they were voting him, and i did not feel like going back to check just for a post whose whole point was to say "i don't think someone voting a person they townlean is inherently and always scummy".

[Datisi]

someone let me know if frogs and scorp actually say something game-related in their back and forth, please.

i'll go and *try* to do some uni work

[Datisi]

std, is there a reason why you feel so... backseat this game?

[Datisi]

Scorpius is Town

i am afraid to ask how you came to this conclusion.

VOTE: generalwu

inb4 "wagon too fast!!" and we have another 50 pages of circular back and forth.

[Datisi]

Unless there’s a doctor then mafia has a role blocker.

??? who did you attempt to shoot?

[Datisi]

fua, answer the question please.

[Datisi]

it matters, but i can't say why until you answer, it defeats the purpose.

[Datisi]

there are a lot of people that fit that description.

[Datisi]

Unless there’s a doctor then mafia has a role blocker.

Actually, it’s more likely maf has a roleblocker. I don’t know why doc would heal a claimed PR.

VOTE: fua

ok, fua can die

i thought the first post was weird because why the hell would you say "oh there might be a doc" if you're a vigilante and you shot at a person that you expect to be scum?? why would you assume a doc was on them?

the fact that (1) they corrected themselves two posts further and (2) they now are saying that it's someone who doc would have no motivation to be on indicates a mindset slip

also them not claiming their shot is probably because they think i have info that could possibly disprove whatever they claim