Mini Normal 2319: Flavorless Hell | Day 5

[Hu Tao]

Hi.

[Hu Tao]

Sup nerds

VOTE: Hu Tao

Whats this all about ?

I play a game Honkai Star Rail and the name Hu Tao reminds me of other Chinese names from that game so I picked them

I also play star rail. Hu Tao is a character from their other game Genhsin impact

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Gob

[Hu Tao]

But why

[Hu Tao]

True

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Hu Tao

doesn't really feel like she's trying to read gob here she just seems more concerned that she's being voted for

Well this is a fake read. You didn't even ask the reason as to why I voted gob in the first place so how could you know this?

VOTE: altaria

[Hu Tao]

i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?

Agrees and then vote them

[Hu Tao]

How is it shade when I'm voting you and quoting you directly? Shade is when I'm casting doubt on your slot but not voting or scumreading. Seems a bit defensive.

[Hu Tao]

scumreading me for a fake read even after i re-evaluated that read doesn't make me feel like you are trying to sort me in good faith

Then why not vote me?

[Hu Tao]

Seems like you're saying this for validation rather than an actual scumread

[Hu Tao]

scumreading me for a fake read even after i re-evaluated that read doesn't make me feel like you are trying to sort me in good faith

Then why not vote me?

Seems like you're saying this for validation rather than an actual scumread

i don't really think you're scum tbh. i'm more inclined to believe you just want to be right here which is preventing you from re-evaluating me

It is still early, if you town it up I can reconsider. At the moment I don't see it. What are your other reads at the moment? I know it's early

[Hu Tao]

There's probably one scum in Drew/Hu Tao and I'm leaning Hu Tao

VOTE: Hu Tao

Why can't it be both? What in particular makes it only 1?

[Hu Tao]

There's probably one scum in Drew/Hu Tao and I'm leaning Hu Tao

VOTE: Hu Tao

Nah it's me, I am trying to open wolf even more this game.

[Hu Tao]

Altaria locktown

More from me tomorrow.

why though?

I feel like Dragon is a hot take sort of player

i mean he's right about me but i would like to see how he got there

I will ask in our PT how he got there and get back to you.

Arent you just admitting you’re mafia here?

VOTE: Doctor Drew

I don't like this vote but we need a decent wagon.

Weird post but probably too weird to be scum

[Hu Tao]

Whoever you scum read. It's only 4 pages in, voting for just wagon sake is silly

[Hu Tao]

Tell me who I should be voting hu tao.

I'm responding to this

[Hu Tao]

Why naughty

[Hu Tao]

Why not?

[Hu Tao]

Assuming that's what you meant.

How confident are you in your altaria read? Have you played with them before?

[Hu Tao]

Yes. Post 45 seems forced, they voted me based on the gob vote but I never explained my gob vote. If they were curious about it then they would have just asked me before voting or suspecting me.

[Hu Tao]

Yes. Post 45 seems forced, they voted me based on the gob vote but I never explained my gob vote. If they were curious about it then they would have just asked me before voting or suspecting me.

I didn't get the impression she voted you for 31, I thought she was voting you for 39 and 41

dragoneater is right. your "why" made me feel like you were concerned about the vote and i didn't like how you accepted "why not" as an answer originally

i'm not sure how this wasn't obvious to you after 55?

also i disagree with the assessment that i would have just asked you about it before putting pressure on you. sometimes people use voting as a way to communicate

Okay, maybe that's my misunderstanding then

[Hu Tao]

Like how can you hope to find scum Day 1 when everything is a crapshoot, as you say, without having a few people you trust?

I don't expect to find scum day 1

This vibes like gera from Mafia has a cop, those vibes being town.

Think he can't copy that as scum?

[Hu Tao]

I'm not sure, my reads are coming in a bit slow this game. Altaria I'm not as sure on as I was before.

[Hu Tao]

I feel like everyone in this game is hard to read for some reason

[Hu Tao]

1/17th of a town point

[Hu Tao]

I feel disengaged, maybe since recent talk has been meta.

Who does everyone think has had the worst day so far? (Not meta related)

[Hu Tao]

I feel disengaged, maybe since recent talk has been meta.

Who does everyone think has had the worst day so far? (Not meta related)

Wdym by worst day?

Whose posting is the worst so far

[Hu Tao]

I'm not seeing the drew scumread so far

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Dragon

[Hu Tao]

I think we need a flip. This game seems ro be the same conversation in different ways to me.

[Hu Tao]

I don't townread them, so I'm fine with them gone if need be.

[Hu Tao]

For some reason I have a nagging feeling you're scum ssbm, but I'm not sure why. It's just one of the gut reads I have

[Hu Tao]

No one

Maybe Drew, since I don't read him as scum.

[Hu Tao]

I think we need a flip. This game seems ro be the same conversation in different ways to me.

It looks to me like plenty is happening. What's the hurry?

Also, why don't you think a Drew flip is possible when like half the game has scumread/voted him at some point?

Sus post by you. Just because others scumread him, doesn't mean I have to be inclined to feel the same

[Hu Tao]

I'm also starting to get sus of Gob but I'm not sure why.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Dragon

[Hu Tao]

Ok, I've gone back and re-read and actually forced myself to understand some of the minutiae of some of the interactions that I glazed over while V/LA. Specifically stuff like the Altaria/Umlaut "drew read" stuff and the gob/Hu Tao reads and OMGUS accusations.

I find a lot of that stuff to generally be early RVS or RVS adjacent reaches for early reads.

In my previous few posts I felt I was seeing a different gob in this game. I think I am changing my mind about that. Reading his response to the drew open wolfing and his 'can't remember' why he was scum reading people and waffling around actually reminds me a lot of Large 245 where he was scum. He similarly was wildly flopping around and didn't appear to be fully reading or comprehending the game state in that game and afterwards when reading the Scum PT he was actually doing a great job keeping the town off balance in that game. I'll say at this point I won't say he must be scum then, but I am not going to claim he's different and say he's town. Since I have no town game to compare him too I just can't be sure he isn't always like this.

Similarly, DE feels very similar in this game as he did in Open 890 to me. Aliana already pointed out some of his similar posts from that game. He also posted more actively and confidently in that game which I think I am also seeing here.

Since I am going off meta vibes, I am also seeing a different Hu Tao here than her town presence in Large 245.

In light of not having any completed personal games with these players that would give me a contrasting alignment meta on them, I am not fully comfortable basing reads on them, but I think these 3 are my stronger scum reads at the moment, Dragon probably being the biggest. The interaction with Drew really pinged me.

What is the difference?

[Hu Tao]

Meta is so silly, people say I act differently every game it is so funny

[Hu Tao]

Caught me. I got that juicy scum role pm

[Hu Tao]

If you want

[Hu Tao]

I'm also fine with a gob flash wagon

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: gob

[Hu Tao]

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

It is indeed very interesting

[Hu Tao]

Day 1 VC 6:

DragonEater70 (5 [E-1]): Doctor Drew, Altaria, geraintm, Hu Tao, Celebloki
Umlaut (2): ssbm_Kyouko, Aliana
Doctor Drew (1): Umlaut
gob (1): DragonEater70

Not voting (1): gob

Gonna follow this up with some intermediary VCs cuz something feels fishy about what I just read

Dragon claims in 431. Altaria swaps to gob in 432. Next Celebloki swaps in 436 after Altaria and Dragon both say they're okay with either gob or umlaut.
Next Hu Tao and then Alianna vote gob in 440 and 441 (ali says this is E-1), then in 442 Drew intents to hammer. 440 and 442 are 19 minutes apart
Umlaut at 445 voices he is not going to vote gob

intermediate VC as of 445

DragonEater70 (2): Doctor Drew, geraintm
Umlaut (1): ssbm_Kyouko
Doctor Drew (1): Umlaut
gob (5 [E-1]): DragonEater70, Altaria, celebloki, Hu Tao, Aliana

Not voting (1): gob

When Umlaut moves for Hu Tao instead of gob in 446, Altaria quickly follows Umlaut's reasoning to Hu Tao but previously was saying she was okay with Umlaut/gob. The move to Hu Tao seems inconsistent with Altaria's play so far. Then Drew says the first thing he's said all game that has really townpinged me in 449

current votes

DragonEater70 (2): Doctor Drew, geraintm
Umlaut (1): ssbm_Kyouko
Hu Tao (2): Umlaut, Altaria
gob (4): DragonEater70, celebloki, Hu Tao, Aliana

Not voting (1): gob

Hu tao, Celebloki, and Altaria were on both Dragon's and gob's E-1 wagons, feels like Altaria is not treating everyone equally here since she's now sheeping her previous POE'd lim on Hu Tao while also "liking" Celebloki (this is an older read but I dont see how Celebloki is any different than Hu Tao here, or from me, gob, or Alianna for that matter. We all want a lim that is not one of the people we think is town and as we approach deadline people are getting more aggressive with their votes. Even Altaria is doing this, so pushing Hu Tao for it is not a good look imo)

VOTE: Altaria

I agree with this analysis

[Hu Tao]

how am i sheeping umlaut when i expressed suspicion there before he even voted?

i'll admit i considered not going there because i'm still somewhat suspicious of umlaut but i think the way hu tao has tagged along on both the dragon and gob wagons outweighs those worries about umlaut

i'm a little wary of you and aliana but y'all are both putting in more effort than hu tao. i think celebloki and drew are town, and i know i'm town, so i'm not sure why you think it's a bad look for me to push hu tao here

So I'm scum because I'm not putting enough effort in for your liking?

[Hu Tao]

Aliana, but I am not even calling Altaria scum here.

Did you think I was?

Lol, maybe I don't get what you were saying.
I thought you were implying Altaria was jumping on a counterwagon to save her buddy gob.

I want to understand why not gob over Hu.

If she is scum then will just expose herself.

how? she is barely playing the game. why do you think she will expose herself but gob won't?

I meant you will expose yourself as scum.

Was talking to Aliana about my read on you if that wasn't clear.

ok

why do you townread hu tao?

You missing everything I am saying if you ask me this question.

Agreed. I thought your explanation was clear, drew

[Hu Tao]

Locking Drew as town, I think his posts make so much sense.

[Hu Tao]

how am i sheeping umlaut when i expressed suspicion there before he even voted?

i'll admit i considered not going there because i'm still somewhat suspicious of umlaut but i think the way hu tao has tagged along on both the dragon and gob wagons outweighs those worries about umlaut

i'm a little wary of you and aliana but y'all are both putting in more effort than hu tao. i think celebloki and drew are town, and i know i'm town, so i'm not sure why you think it's a bad look for me to push hu tao here

So I'm scum because I'm not putting enough effort in for your liking?

that's certainly one way to phrase it

i think you could be scum because you're not really doing much solving, you want to end the day for a reason i don't think makes much sense, and you're just jumping from wagon to wagon without much reasoning

I started the gob quick wagon. So if I'm scum are you saying I'm saving my scum teammate dragon after making him claim? Or are you saying I'm scum who wanted to remove pressure off one town to another?

[Hu Tao]

I'm apparently still alive

Should I claim?

If you want

I'm apparently still alive

Should I claim?

you could wait until intent to hammer if you want but it's up to you

I'm also fine with a gob flash wagon

any crumbs?

VOTE: gob

You literally followed my lead, then complained about it after.

Altaria could be scum, maybe I was right before.

[Hu Tao]

I think his question was very clear, it seemed more like you not answering and trying to flip it as something else

[Hu Tao]

Please do not post, you are dead.

This is a mistake. I hardclaim reviver and I resurrected the dead mafia goon last night.

[Hu Tao]

i feel like i did so good...

Naur.. You did great. Didn't know it was you. Makes me want to make a secret account now

[Hu Tao]

So we all just wait for Dragon?

[Hu Tao]

Didn't someone run a game a few years back where everyone was given a secret alt they had to play under?

I even wanna say if you alt slipped you were mod killed.

That's so funny

[Hu Tao]

I think we just wait for dragon. Not sure why scum wouldn't kill the JK claim though...

[Hu Tao]

How does it work if JK keeps scum but scum kills JK? I thought scum kills JK in that scenario?

[Hu Tao]

Guess we still wait

[Hu Tao]

Hmm. I'll ponder what the best move is here

[Hu Tao]

I thought so as well, but I understand the logic which is why I think it's worth thinking about what's optimal.

[Hu Tao]

I thought it over. It's optimal to no Elim here. We do force scum to kill. Even if it's outside of dragon.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: no elim

[Hu Tao]

UNVOTE:

I forgot this was a 10 person game at start. I don't think we no Elim here

[Hu Tao]

I still think the correct play is to fade me here but give me time, let me talk some things out so you all are better set up to solve this when I'm gone

Are you still able to vig?

[Hu Tao]

I'm okay with mass claiming. That way we lock how many pr there are. 2 already claimed. Also can check for balance

[Hu Tao]

I'm okay with mass claiming. That way we lock how many pr there are. 2 already claimed. Also can check for balance

3. Kyouko is a PR

Personally I don't think massclaiming is a good idea. Keep the scum guessing

I've been wrong about this before though

What is there to guess? They know the pr they kill there. That's why it's better to mass claim to lock in roles and vote either in VT or prs

[Hu Tao]

It's only a game of 10 so there won't be that many PR especially when one scum was a goon

[Hu Tao]

Okay let's mass claim. I'm VT

[Hu Tao]

Why aren't people claiming? Scummy. We should make sure we have all the claims before voting off someone.

[Hu Tao]

Can someone unvote?

[Hu Tao]

DragonEater70 - JK (needs to clarify if modifers)
Umlaut - ???
Celebloki - VT
geraintm - VT
ssbm_Kyouko - vague claim. Can claim last?
Doctor Drew - ???
Black - Lazy vig
Hu Tao - VT
Aliana - ??

[Hu Tao]

Am I missing any claims? If so please claim again. Also anyone voting should unvote until we get all claims

[Hu Tao]

DragonEater70 - JK (needs to clarify if modifers)
Umlaut - ???
Celebloki - VT
geraintm - VT
ssbm_Kyouko - vague claim. Can claim last?
Doctor Drew - ???
Black - Lazy vig
Hu Tao - VT
Aliana - VT

Missed a claim sorry. If you're not listed say claim in your next post

[Hu Tao]

Okay so need Drew to claim. Umlaut to confirm they are VT and then ssbm to full claim after

[Hu Tao]

I'll unvote for now.

UNVOTE:

I don't think Kyouko should claim today. I believe her when she says it would be anti-town.

That's how I'm feeling

Okay fine

[Hu Tao]

So are we believing 3 PRs with 1 mafia goon confirmed

[Hu Tao]

Oh I didn't realize there was no multitasking. I'm late. I don't understand why killing would not be better though. They essentially gave us another vote out day since it's 9 now.

[Hu Tao]

I kind of think it's dragon or black. Leaning dragon but I'm fine voting outside.

[Hu Tao]

I kind of think it's dragon or black. Leaning dragon but I'm fine voting outside.

Why do you suspect those two?

I just don't see nk as optimal. Unless it's black being blocked or Dragon trying to prove he's jk

[Hu Tao]

I don't understand why killing would not be better though. They essentially gave us another vote out day since it's 9 now.

That was my thought too but by no killing the wolf can take down like 4 extra townies this way. I went over it in 608 and 610. What are your thoughts about my theory?

As in someone rb'd dragon?

[Hu Tao]

I kind of think it's just Umlaut here.

I'm fine with that today

[Hu Tao]

I still think it's just dragon but if game ends with umlaut that would be funny

[Hu Tao]

*sigh*

We are fine with you not fully claiming till tomorrow

[Hu Tao]

Yeah deadline is still 6 days out I wanna inspect that gob wagon for bussing before we kill umlaut in case it's not him, and umlaut if it's not you maybe you could do the same

I'm fine with this. Maybe I'll go back and look too.

[Hu Tao]

Yes. Did you target me because you townread me or did you think I was scum?

Townread

Still townreading you

I just don't believe this. With 1 scum left as jk you jail scummiest people to create clears. Not people you think might be killed.

[Hu Tao]

We wait for dragon to confirm.

[Hu Tao]

Drew is town.

We wait for dragon still

[Hu Tao]

Hmm. Hu Tao did bus their scum buddy in Mini Normal 1094 that just ended, so it's possible

I would bus, but not bring my partners name out of no where and say quick wagon it. Either way. We wait for dragon.

[Hu Tao]

I think there is 0% chance drew is scum here. And will fight for him not to be voted out BTW.

[Hu Tao]

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

As opposed to the speed and nature of the wagon on Hu??

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

As opposed to the speed and nature of the wagon on Hu??

???

there's two votes on hu tao and both of them have reasons behind them

....that happened just as gob was about to be limmed.

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

As opposed to the speed and nature of the wagon on Hu??

???

there's two votes on hu tao and both of them have reasons behind them

....that happened just as gob was about to be limmed.

why are you so sure gob is scum here?

Why are you so adamant they aren't?

And the issue with voting Hu isn't a content issue I have......just the timing to finally push her happened just as Gob was basically about to be limmed.

Do you understand my issue with you?

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

As opposed to the speed and nature of the wagon on Hu??

???

there's two votes on hu tao and both of them have reasons behind them

....that happened just as gob was about to be limmed.

why are you so sure gob is scum here?

Why are you so adamant they aren't?

And the issue with voting Hu isn't a content issue I have......just the timing to finally push her happened just as Gob was basically about to be limmed.

Do you understand my issue with you?

This is certainly a Drew post.

How is that a Drew post? You don't agree that the timing is odd?

drew my issue with you is you haven't really said much about or interacted with gob at all and suddenly you're fine hammering him because what...he thinks voting scum D1 is a bad idea? yes that's a pretty crappy opinion but how does that make him scum? i could maybe see if you thought he was scum with dragon but dragon claimed JK so i doubt that's how you feel

Well that is false that I didn't interact with Gob when I literally did as they protected Dragon.

And do you buy Dragons claim at face value? I don't, but can worry about that tomorrow.

What we can do is lim the person who bent over backwards trying to protect, who they even admit is scummy, with shoddy logic at best.

Or lim Hu, who is disengaged I guess?

[Hu Tao]

Not sure. I think it's dragon or you. But I still wait for dragon

[Hu Tao]

[Hu Tao]

I've given my read. I led on scum day 1. I'm trying to play the game optimally so I don't know what else you want from me.

[Hu Tao]

Is dragon getting a prod or something? I'm not sure how those work.

[Hu Tao]

[Hu Tao]

We still wait for dragon

[Hu Tao]

There is a smidge of me thinking you are open wolfing with the laughing lol.

This is almost guaranteed scum loss if we play optimally so no thanks

[Hu Tao]

Hu Tao isn't doing anything either but I think she's just a lazy town player. This behavior is pretty much in line with the town games I've read of hers

There's an agenda behind what Drew is doing and I'm not seeing that from Hu Tao

Yeah, yeah. You can keep calling me names. Its fine.

[Hu Tao]

Yes sadly

[Hu Tao]

Hi Dann! Happy to play with you again. Waiting for Dragon still.

[Hu Tao]

[Hu Tao]

I'll never understand how prods work on this site

[Hu Tao]

Dragon? More like Dragon this game longer than it needs to be

[Hu Tao]

We don't vote today. We are at even numbers. We no vote

VOTE: no elim

[Hu Tao]

This will test if scum is no killing as well.

[Hu Tao]

We don't vote today. We are at even numbers. We no vote

VOTE: no elim

You've been doing nothing but post that you're waiting for Dragon just to say this?

Why didn't you suggest this like 3 days ago?

Because we needed to know who he jailed first before I said this.

[Hu Tao]

Also can someone explain the whole no lim on even numbers thing. Wouldn't it be best for us to just get rid of the top suspect here and get some information?

Because if we stay at even numbers we get to 4 people remaining with 1 scum. Rather than 3 people remaining with 1 scum at odd numbers. If scum have been no killing they need to kill.

[Hu Tao]

Exactly

[Hu Tao]

If dragon is scum it changes his response potentially. Either way, no Elim here takes last day from a 25% chance to 33% chance to get scum.

[Hu Tao]

Also why are we voting drew? We didn't vote black yesterday. I'm so confused

[Hu Tao]

Sorry drew, i am town. This waiting has drained most excitement I had for this game. I think you're clearly town. But I don't have the energy to try

[Hu Tao]

No Elim is still the best to do now and not later since scum haven't killed twice in a row but I can't be bothered to try to argue here.

[Hu Tao]

Ok then don't lol. Go back to lurking and not doing anything and we will figure this thing out without you

Not sure why you've been snappy at me all game, but hopefully you're just scum.

[Hu Tao]

Dann, black said her claim made more sense then mine, hence my response.

And I am just giving my last reads since I figure no one will listen to me or Hu.

When I flip town, which btw I will, hopefully you will go back to that post you quoted and take it a bit more seriously.

[Hu Tao]

Drew it only takes 4 to no Elim. If the rest no Elim we can save you.

[Hu Tao]

Gera and kyouko do you scumread drew? If not I still think no Elim is a good play here.

[Hu Tao]

@kyouko, does your role give you any inclination as to whether Dragon is likely to be town or not

I'm sure this doesn't need to be asked now.

[Hu Tao]

Ok then don't lol. Go back to lurking and not doing anything and we will figure this thing out without you

Not sure why you've been snappy at me all game, but hopefully you're just scum.

I'm sorry

This apology probably won't mean anything until I flip and even then you might not care but you're right. I've been treating you unfairly. I'll control my frustrations better moving forward

It's fine don't worry.

[Hu Tao]

No elim please

[Hu Tao]

Scum please kill me

[Hu Tao]

Now we wait for moderator

[Hu Tao]

How does hider work again? Scum killed gera?

[Hu Tao]

I don't see myself ever voting drew this game

[Hu Tao]

Yeah. I'm just going to skip that page.

VOTE: Dragon

[Hu Tao]

this game. If it's not dragon or black gg. Otherwise..

[Hu Tao]

Ugh. I hope you're trolling

[Hu Tao]

There is nothing to anticipate. It is dragon or black imo. But top late for that. Drew I am disappointed in you for voting me. Unless you fooled me and you're scum then good work

[Hu Tao]

Gg scum

This game was funny

[Hu Tao]

It's fine. I need to be better in explaining my reads.

[Hu Tao]

Yeah I think your questioning end of day 1 about why people were switching from gob to me didn't make sense as his partner after he flipped scum.

[Hu Tao]

It's fine. I need to be better in explaining my reads.

I'm sorry for a couple of things this game

I was a little rude to you when I shouldn't have been. There's no excuse for it and I need to control my frustrations better

I also struggle with two problems as town. I tunnel easily, and I'm bad at rallying people to my solve when I think I'm right. I was trying to work on the latter this game and it worked a little, the issue was I was tunneling on town. Sorry you got caught in the crosshairs of that

No need to apologize, thank you though. Don't worry, I didn't take it to heart. I understand that at the end of the day it's a game. I should have done better explaining why I thought it was you or dragon and I can understand why it was frustrating for you for me not doing so. I should learn to express my reads a bit more since I didn't really realize how it can change others opinions of me during the game.

[Hu Tao]