Large Normal 246: Game Over

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE: Enchant

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Hu Tao (E-7): Scummy
Elements (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Dunnstral (E-7): Towny
Broccoli Quest 2 (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Enchant (E-7): Null
ssbm_Kyouko (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma
TimmerRC (E-7): Cant remember
Andresvmb (E-7): Towny
Naerys (E-7): Confirmed Town
davesaz (E-7): Cant remember
Guillotina (E-7): Town
Random Nurse (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma

Do you think the way Roden pushed Hu Tao was just scum bussing?

No, i just cant let go of the fact they tried to make me CC on day 1. I will never forget it.

I understand that but they did exactly that in a past town game.

I dont care. Maybe you guys let people get away with that instead of policying the slot so they stop, but i dont. If Hu is town and we reach lylo we already lost this game because i cant forget that.

Okay we will vote you out before then. Good to know

Hu Tao you are 90% town in my book, but we're never voting Guillo this game.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Hu Tao (E-7): Scummy
Elements (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Dunnstral (E-7): Towny
Broccoli Quest 2 (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Enchant (E-7): Null
ssbm_Kyouko (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma
TimmerRC (E-7): Cant remember
Andresvmb (E-7): Towny
Naerys (E-7): Confirmed Town
davesaz (E-7): Cant remember
Guillotina (E-7): Town
Random Nurse (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma

Do you think the way Roden pushed Hu Tao was just scum bussing?

No, i just cant let go of the fact they tried to make me CC on day 1. I will never forget it.

I understand that but they did exactly that in a past town game.

I dont care. Maybe you guys let people get away with that instead of policying the slot so they stop, but i dont. If Hu is town and we reach lylo we already lost this game because i cant forget that.

I actually think we always lim Hu Tao the day before ELo unless we have a guilty on someone else or something

You just lost town status from me

Maybe I was rash to townbin you then

I won't let you bully me into having a read.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE: Andres

Bad vote. Are you actually scum??? Don't make me 2nd guess myself

Hu you already did this exact trick in Love Child, why do you think it will work here lol

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I think Enchant or Elements is the best vote today. But we should wait for enchant to check in at least.

lol imagine calling me scum when I am the number one supporter of killing everyone you want dead

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Actually I remember when key was forced to claim it seemed more natural. I think I'd prefer RN today.

Stop scumsiding

Idc if you are town or scum but stop.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Okay. So is guillotine just scum? I'm not sure what's happening here.

No

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Can everyone stop scum siding for Obi Wan Kenobi's sake?

We are limming in Enchant/Timmer today, and that's all. Guillo is town. Dunn is town. The FNs are town. Nurse is town until we run out of PoE or get a guilty.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

So, Celebloki did not lie about his claim on Hu Tao.

Let's flip Hu Tao.

Let's not. Didn't you see how not limming Hu Tao yesterday resulted in a scum death?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Honestly if half the playerlist already claimed, I would like a full massclaim

Order:

Timmer
Andres
davesaz
Kyouko (confirm whether just miller or additional abilities)
Dunn (same as kyo)
Nurse
Broccoli



Already claimed:
Enchant - VT
Elements - VT
Hu Tao - VT
Guillo - 2 Shot indecisive doctor
Naerys - 1 shot FN

Don't remember what Timmer said, maybe vanilla?
Andres alternating Messenger/FN (I think odd/even respectively?) with FN confirmed by Dunn

Are we going to do this? I would like an explicit yes or no on my request for you to go first.

We already started the massclaim. I'm fine with letting you go last but that means it's Dunn's turn right now.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I'm a "Macho Combined Bodyguard Disloyal Vigilante."

Ooooh exciting. Do you have any innos?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I misunderstood the claim a little, I just looked up what combined does.

Macho means they can't be protected. Combined means they use both of their abilities on the same target. Disloyal means that action only targets opposite alignments.

So assuming town, this role targets only mafia with a night kill, but then Random Nurse dies due to the bodyguard. Though it also looks like the bodyguard can be used on its own on town players, since the vigilante part does not activate.

So Random Nurse should be announcing their targets ahead of time, otherwise they die during the night and we have no idea where they targeted.

Yeah. I'm thinking he should target Hu Tao tonight.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

So you die if you protect mafia member? Meh.


Targets?

Haven't used it yet because I didn't understand it.

If I target Town do I and then due? It if I target Scum?

I can't be protected so do I figured I'd claim it and then Town can discuss how to best use it.

If you target town, you protect them like a bodyguard, meaning you die instead of them if they are killed but survive otherwise. If you target scum, you just immediately die.

Scum can obviously nightkill you in order to "frame" your target but it will be obvious that they did since there will be only one death instead of two, so the target isn't really framed (but we don't get a hard inno).

On the other hand if you survive, we get a hard inno, and if you die in addition to somebody else we get a hard guilty.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I'm a "Macho Combined Bodyguard Disloyal Vigilante."

Um. So why would we have 3 protectives?

Nurse's role is an extremely weak protective and is actually believable, unlike Roden's. In fact Nurse's role is an investigation role.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Okay target Timmer imo. Enough people tr me that it'll be a waste.

Nah. He should target person he suspects most (which is you).

[Broccoli Quest 2]

These complex roles are beyond me. Can anyone summarize the basic case on Elements?

I don't think there's any case on Elements tbh

I think we can vote enchant now

Yeah let's

Unless anyone thinks Timmer is the better option

[Broccoli Quest 2]

So only me and davesaz are left

I'm a VT

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Claims:

Hu Tao - VT
Elements - VT
Broccoli Quest 2 - VT
Enchant - VT
TimmerRC - VT
Dunnstral - Miller
ssbm_Kyouko - Miller
Andresvmb - Odd Night Messenger Even Night Friendly Neighbor
Naerys - 1-Shot Friendly Neighbor
Guillotina - 2-Shot Indecisive Doctor
Random Nurse - Macho Combined Bodyguard Disloyal Vigilante
davesaz - ???

Flips:

Black - Baby Hider :p
Celeb - Rolecop
Kawaii - VT

Gamma - Goon
Roden - Complex Alien

[Broccoli Quest 2]

The case for Enchant is that most other people are either cleared or I have a very strong reason to think are town.

Like I believe all 2 scum are within you, Enchant, Hu Tao and Elements 90% of the time. And I am townreading Hu Tao and Elements so don't want to go for them first.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

So, Celebloki did not lie about his claim on Hu Tao.

Let's flip Hu Tao.

Let's not. Didn't you see how not limming Hu Tao yesterday resulted in a scum death?

So in your mind that *MUST* mean Hu Tao can't possibly be Scum?

If HT does flip Scum before you, well, I will be zeroing in on you next.

Hopefully this answers your question:

Hu Tao (E-7): Scummy
Elements (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Dunnstral (E-7): Towny
Broccoli Quest 2 (E-7): Spewed town from both Gamma and Rode
Enchant (E-7): Null
ssbm_Kyouko (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma
TimmerRC (E-7): Cant remember
Andresvmb (E-7): Towny
Naerys (E-7): Confirmed Town
davesaz (E-7): Cant remember
Guillotina (E-7): Town
Random Nurse (E-7): Spewed town from Gamma

Do you think the way Roden pushed Hu Tao was just scum bussing?

No, i just cant let go of the fact they tried to make me CC on day 1. I will never forget it.

I understand that but they did exactly that in a past town game.

I dont care. Maybe you guys let people get away with that instead of policying the slot so they stop, but i dont. If Hu is town and we reach lylo we already lost this game because i cant forget that.

I actually think we always lim Hu Tao the day before ELo unless we have a guilty on someone else or something

Also do you really think as scum I would hard defend my scum buddy only to push my other scum buddy? How does that make sense?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I looked on claims:
2 Innocents from Miller claims with Town Role Cop in game. And Broccoli scared everyone off from checking Millers (which would result in confirmation of being town and mafia being boxed).
2 Innocents from Friendly Neighboors. These most belivable if targets alive. I don't care to look who targets are.
Possible Innocents from "Bodyguard abomination". But let's be honest, using it to get guilties is unlikely option from this point on.

I believe bodyguard and both FN claims. I don't believe Millers.


Vote VOTE: Broccoli for now. For someone who tries to solve mech, they are surprisingly vindicative.

If you don't believe the millers why are you voting a VT?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

One of these Millers are mafia. So 50/50.

You are probably teammate. 100/0.

So you don't even bother reading the millers to see which one might be scum?

Also how does "probably teammate" work with "100/0"?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Anyway Nurse, no I am not clearing Hu Tao and also not Elements. I just think they are ess likely to be scum than Enchant/Timmer, both play wise and interactions wise.

I won't be very surprised if one of them is scum, though.

I am clearing you, Guillo, and Naerys both mechanically and by play.

I also think davesaz, Dunn and Kyoko are pretty town right now so don't want to touch them.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

2 Innocents from Miller claims with Town Role Cop in game. And Broccoli scared everyone off from checking Millers (which would result in confirmation of being town and mafia being boxed).

I believe bodyguard and both FN claims. I don't believe Millers.

Vote VOTE: Broccoli for now. For someone who tries to solve mech, they are surprisingly vindicative.

Your claim that I might be trying to prevent an investigation of a miller teammate would have held more water if the rolecop wasn't night killed. There's no point scaring him off he dies at night anyway.

It's a pretty bullshit theory tbh

[Broccoli Quest 2]

K I am done talking to Enchant, clearly this conversation isn't in good faith.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Anyway Nurse,

no I am not clearing Hu Tao

and also not Elements. I just think they are ess likely to be scum than Enchant/Timmer, both play wise and interactions wise.

I won't be very surprised if one of them is scum, though.

I am clearing you, Guillo, and Naerys both mechanically and by play.

I also think davesaz, Dunn and Kyoko are pretty town right now so don't want to touch them.

To be frank you certainly do sound like it and should HT flip Scum I'll be so far up your ass I'll be nipping your uvula.

For now, the random nurse abides.

I literally said we should always flip HT day before ELo. How is that clearing her?

Yes, I am townreading her. I am not clearing her.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

If you think one of the PRs are lying, who do you think it is?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE: Timmer

[Broccoli Quest 2]

So you mean the millers are PRs? Okay.

Which one?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Something doesn't sit right with how Hu Tao keeps subtly shading me for not town clearing her. Does she forget I am the one person who was hard defending her the entirety of Day 2, and clearly have a strong TR on her?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

You could be scum doing that. You're acting like scum doesn't defend town. Anyway I clearly said we probably shouldn't vote in the VTs and you claimed VT

I wasn't saying you should town lock me for that. I was trying to show that your argument doesn't clear you, just as my own argument doesn't clear me.

I'm just trying to tell you. It makes 0 sense for me to be scum here for multiple reasons.

I get that this is what you think, but it doesn't make me scummy to disagree.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Anyway I think Enchant might be town. Though not really sure who would be scum here.

Guillo, when you have time any chance you go over associations again and see who can and can't be cleared off of Roden and Gamma?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I am 100% sure RN is town and I would self hammer in ELo if he flips scum. We're never voting RN.

Besides, with his role he's very likely to resolve himself before ELo.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I'm still thinking guillotine and naerys scum together. But ummm. I'm not sure if we should do that. I think RN should visit a pr but he won't listen to me

I guess it could work because Naerys role is kinda weird.

What's your scum case for Guillo? Or for Naerys?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Actually Guillo's role is also a bit weird.

Anyhow. What's your case on them?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Hu Tao, can you explain your progression from "let's kill Enchant already, more votes on Enchant" to "we shouldn't vote VTs today"?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Enchant makes sense. And I also like I said earlier thought key was genuine who enchant replaced.

WDYM? Please use longer sentences.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Sorry I can't English sometimes. I think what Enchant is saying makes sense. I also stated that Key when they claimed sounded very genuine, and not a scummy claim.

Yeah okay I understand why you don't want Enchant, but that wasn't my question. Let me rephrase it:

Earlier you were fine with limming a VT (Enchant). Now you say we shouldn't vote VTs (so including Timmer for instance). What changed your mind about limming VTs?

Why would naerys friendly neighbor the doctor claim after waiting days to do so.

Nonsense.

Claiming and chaining self with teammate-doctor claim is also nonsense.


All "fucking absurd" goes in probably town territory. Mafia atleast have some plan to live.
Probably.

I agree that scum *probably* has a plan which is why I'm not really pushing these two, but I'm interested if Hu Tao can scum case them beyond the claim.

By the way, why no one reacted when i claimed doctor after my slot claimed VT?

Did i look like blatantly lying, and if so, why no one pointed it out.

I thought you were obviously joking. You weren't?

I'm on page 101 where the claims stopped. Enchant is probably a good lim but please dont rush it right now, I want to look over the mechanics before end of day.

I know several of you have seen my mech-solves so unvote temporarily please at least - those that have seen them recently include Dunnstral, Broccoli, Elements, Hu Tao, maybe Elements if he spectate after dying in that recently completed 9:12 Open game

Sure have as much time as you want - I am not rushing anywhere. In fact I'm trying to consider more possibilities now because I just finished a game where rushing day phases lost town the game.

UNVOTE:

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I thought you were obviously joking. You weren't?

I saw Guilo CCing Roden, so i claimed Doc as well for hell of it. Then retracted to look like doctor which really don't want to die. It didn't matter because my slot already claimed VT.

I mostly ISO slots i replaced in, but this time i decided that i won't.

TldR: Yes it was joke.

TLDR: Enchant town

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Kyouko, why are you assuming davesaz is disloyal/simple? And that he visited Dunn? Did he claim anything of the sort?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Why did mafia go for the kill on Celebloki with a claimed Doctor and with Roden's alien role being dead. That is presumably the mafia's blocking power.

or strongman

Just rereading D3 - I didn't mention it I don't think, but I kinda juggernaut/strongman being the third PR with Alien/TA would also make some sense, just thought it was more likely there was another blocker of some kind like a jailkeeper or something

I don't think it's a good idea to discuss the identity of the doctor or even whether there is a doctor or not, as that can only help scum.

Moving on, I hated Keyleth's TR of CSF's post. The fact that CSF flipped scum makes me hate it even more TBH.

VOTE: Key- Enchant

STOP PEDITING ME

Which post of Keyleth's was this? I'm sure I could find it but I quoted this post while rereading

I'm at page 11

Gamma Emerald - lean scum

Spoiler:

I claim miller

Same

jfc

Strange reaction

Gamma you've still got your rvs vote on me, why?

haven’t felt a need to move it
VOTE: KawaiiKame
They pinged me somewhat with how they unvoted kyouko, not strongly though

I feel like forgetting your vote is +scum and this reads a bit hedge-y

Random Nurse
Celebloki
Naerys-

For now my first impressions are that dave and both millers could be town.
Still too far from finding a scum, but its a start.

Was it just for the question he asked or was there more to it?

davesaz
Hu Tao - town

Spoiler: I townread all of these quotes

VT

I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

So scum will not target me and I can last till end game. I believe in myself to find scum as long as I'm alive long enough. Now I just need to be towny enough to not be voted out. I've eliminated half of the work.

I think Hu Tao was just joking with the VT claim

Nope. I'm VT

Timmer feels town so far

The "I'm terrible at D1" feels more like a townie trying to explain why he doesn't have many reads as opposed to Mafia worried about their optics

They seem curious but scum can also be curious so I'm not giving them that easy of a town read so far.

Elements is a champion baffler for sure.

I'm not inclined to vote for the millers. I think I agree with Gamma's take.

Not sure why but this post gives me scum pings. I wish I could tell you why

I belive Dunn and ssbm's claim. Unless the small chance they are scum together or scum informed of miller's in this game. Either way, I wouldn't want them today at the very least. If there are actual millers, there is likely a way to confirm that somehow regardless.

Broccoli Quest 2
Guillotina
Cat Scratch Fever
Keyleth
Dunnstral - I was inclined to believe the miller claim out of the gate but kind of hate his posting (sorry). I dunno
KawaiiKame - town
ssbm_Kyouko - town
TimmerRC - early posts spoilered below kinda pinged scum but then 111 was good

Spoiler:

VT

I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

It's been awhile, remind me why voting millers is the best option?

Elements - town for having zero filter and just livetweeting every thought she has into the void
Andresvmb
Black

Sick CSF having a really good post can mean they get the day 1 pass because I would feel bad otherwise.

I thought that post by CSF was an obvscum post but I thought liking it was just ridiculous so I voted Key instead

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Why does this game feel hard even though we have killed two scum?

I know, right? It just feels like there's no one except Timmer who could be scum but there are two scum left.

@Broccoli

I believe that just by Gamma alone

Random Nurse
Kyouko
Hu Tao (i hate to admit it)

Are never partnered with Gamma unless she did one hell of a distancing job with any of them.

This is taking myself from the list for obvious reasons.

From Roden, i remember you and Dunn looking unaligned as well.

Okay, thanks for re-affriming my thoughts. I am fine with Hu Tao being town for now.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

One thing though regarding mechanical speculation:

Jingle is renowned for being really good at balancing games, so I expect this game to be impeccably balanced.

I went over the last ~8 Large Normal 17ers, and in all of them town had between 4 and 6 PR points (where a full cop is 2 PR points, a full JK is 1 PR point, and a 1-shot roleblocker is 0.5 PR points), with the average being (surprisingly) 5 PR points. Also scum had on average 2.5 PRs (but they are often pretty weak ones, like various 1-shots), so having two mafia goons with 5 PR points is definitely not out of the question.

In this setup we have:
Rolecop - 1 PR point
Babysitter Hider - 1 PR point

And the following claims:
2x Miller - 0 PR points
Odd Night Messenger Even Night Friendly Neighbor - I'd say this is equivalent to an IC, so 1 PR point
1-Shot Friendly Neighbor - half an IC, so probably 0.5 PR points
2-Shot Indecisive Doctor - Doctor is a strong role, but this one is severely gated, so 0.5-1 PR points.
Macho Combined Bodyguard Disloyal Vigilante - I'd say this is equivalent to a Weak Cop, which is like 1-1.5 PR points?
Simple Neighborizer - Basically a vanilla cop, 0.5 PR points.

If all claims are real we have 6 PR points. And like I said, our mod likes perfectly balanced games so I feel this might be overkill unless scum has another strong PR (the Alien is a pretty strong PR tbh). However if it were any other mod I could believe all the claims were real. I should probably ask the mod in the postgame if my assessment of this is correct.

So with that in mind, I guess I think it's likely there's scum in the PRs? Mechanically talking, if it's Guillo and Naerys then that would be perfect to put us down to 5 PR points, but I'm heavily townreading Guillo. Maybe davesaz? I could see his role being a scum role. I guess Dunn/Andres also works. Kyoko doesn't work.

I don't think it's Nurse because like Enchant said, he could never just make up such a fake claim and I feel if he was scum his teammate wouldn't make up a role that Nurse himself wouldn't understand. And also he's still cleared by interactions with Gamma.

What I do think this confirms is that we can't have 3 goons this game, because then it would be extremely townsided. So if we kill a second goon (maybe Timmer?), anyone who gets confirmed as vanilla also gets soft cleared as town.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE:

Timmer

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I can see a universe of enchant+ nurse scum tbh

Literally every other pairing, and that includes Dunn/Kyo or me/Guillo, is more likely than RN and Enchant, Since that apiring has 0% to happen.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Pairing*

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Hey, Naerysing is MY word! VOTE: Naerys

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE:

Timmer

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I also don't see Timmer coming in to stop this from happening, I think we just need to give dave and RN time to post anything they have on their minds in case

something happens

toNight

Was it just a typo capitalizing that "N" in tonight?

No, it's how Kyouko refers to ingame nights as opposed to real life nights

[Broccoli Quest 2]

And just as an apology, it's my own fault, I picked a stupid time to try to play, I'm prepping Christmas for the fam, I'm in the process of setting up a Mycology lab for my region, and honestly the output on this site is just too much for me even without that, so I'll likely not sign up for another. Thanks again!

Damn. This is probably town.

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Broccoli Quest 2]

gun to head, who are your top 3 scumreads

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Maybe elements or naerys guillotine. Not sure why that matters. I'll be clear tomorrow anyway. Even though I'm 99% always town already

My first order of business will be voting you out broccoli

scunreading Naerys/Guillo and voting me doesn't really add up, now does it?

Also I thought you were voting Timmer, nvm

UNVOTE: Hu Tao

VOTE: Elements

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I need more AI content from people

[Broccoli Quest 2]

TBH Hu Tao, this incessant talk about voting me and sussing me doesn't feel like you are trying to sort me at all, it just feels like you don't want me around to push you. Is this a correct assessment?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I think Timmer isn't hammered btw so please somebody unvote

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Maybe it's just paranoia but Timmer/a PR claim feels too easy to be the real solve? And kinda implies the other scum hasn't even botheted to try and save their last teammate. And I don't know how often scum wins in 1v9 (though ironically I just won a 1v8 recently. That was a pretty bad game though)

[Broccoli Quest 2]

And Timmer + another VT makes town way too OP and also feels way too easy to be real

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Maybe I'm making this game harder than it ought to be though, IDK

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I'm not voting you as a Timmer teammate

But you got a point

UNVOTE:

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Elemenets who do you think the other scum is, assuming one is Timmer? (whom you are voting)

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I think this day is getting a bit stale. So you all decide on TimmerRC but are now having second thoughts? We could get rid of the player that’s very likely Scum in Elements, you know. Anyway, I’m probably back tonight and I’ll have some time to read I hope (finally), but I’m happy to hammer one of {Elements, Enchant} if that’s what we’re doing.

Ah yes, me the very likely scum

Yay Elements is town

With you moving your vote Broccoli, Timmer should be E-2 right now. I think I have a good case for scum!Timmer, and I think it feels easy because scum are getting cornered. They're down by 2 and we have at least 1 FN, probably 2.

Enchant also would have felt "easy", as does Elements. I think the massclaim narrowed it down a lot

Spicy

WHat's your case for TImmer? I forgot

I don't think that post comes from Scum

Which one

[Broccoli Quest 2]

TBH Hu Tao, this incessant talk about voting me and sussing me doesn't feel like you are trying to sort me at all, it just feels like you don't want me around to push you. Is this a correct assessment?

Yes you caught me

boooooo

May I remind you that when I die, Nurse and Guillo will push you to death?

I am in fact PROTECTING you

[Broccoli Quest 2]

There's also a CSF post you quoted (the last, spoilered one) which you implied relates to Timmer but with no payoff of how it relates

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Also, seems Keyleth never answered CSF's question

Did you tell me already what you thought of 538

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I'm kinda surprised I haven't been prodded but I guess it makes sense with Jingle's mod note on holidays and stuff. This post is half a prod dodge and half a thought spew.

First of all I saw Kyouko theorizing about SK, and while it's not impossible I don't really see a point talking about it right now? K.

I am kinda fine with going any of the VTs today because I have strong reasons to townread the non-VTs, and I think Trimmer has like 40% to flip scum, and the other three have like 20% to flip scum (btw with 2 scum and 12 living players fmpov random lim hits scum like 18% of the time, NOT 25% like at game start). BUT I am not really sold on any of them being scum and definitely not sold on two of them being scum.

I also don't really TR Naerys or Andres from play and would have been okay with limming them, but I

DO

townread Guillo and Dunn heavily and don't think they are scum. So these were very good FN targets

I am also slightly sus about the 2 FNs but I could definitely see myself making a setup eith two of the same role but different gating, so maybe they are legit.

Honestly I really dunno who we should vote but I'm fine just sheeping Kyouko on whoever she chooses (except Nurse). Maybe it is just Trimmer.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Nurse shpuld definitely choose just one person in case they die.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Elly are you town?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE:

Timmer

[Broccoli Quest 2]

By play I feel the scum team has to be Timmer/Hu Tao

By mech I am actually lost. I guess one of davesaz/RN makes most sense as scum?

I dunno. Anybody has any insight?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Enchant, what are your reads? Do you think there are two mafia among the VT claims?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Do you wanna flip Timmer, Hu Tao or Elements? Or yourself?

I personally can't decide.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Can we just kill Timmer please

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Can we just kill Timmer please

No, but next day we can fry some broccoli

What even is your reason for scumreading me

[Broccoli Quest 2]

But I'm also a dragon

Don't you like dragons???

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Honestly I've looked over what Kyouko said and she's not lying or anything

So can we please just sheep her with regards to mech please? Cause clearly she's the mech queen of MafiaScum (see Smuggler's Port II).

Also RN is not lying about his role so please stop implying he is

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Smuggler's Port II

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Dragons yes, broccoli no

Racist!

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Also RN is not lying about his role so please stop implying he is

Eh, it just feels like kinda overpowered role so i am having a hard time to believe that

Nurse always has OP roles as town.

Also it's not that OP? It's a 1-guity cop except you can't be sure the clears are real clears (roleblock) and scum can force a no-result at any time after he claims unless there's a doctor that can save him (there isn't).

Actually it's pretty weak.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Also RN is not lying about his role so please stop implying he is

Eh, it just feels like kinda overpowered role so i am having a hard time to believe that

Nurse always has OP roles as town.

Also it's not that OP? It's a 1-guity cop except you can't be sure the clears are real clears (roleblock) and scum can force a no-result at any time after he claims unless there's a doctor that can save him (there isn't).

Actually it's pretty weak.

it's actually a zero guilty cop unless he can find a way to crumb his night action without announcing it - dave can't even neighborize him to allow the targets to be privately mentioned in the hood, because Dave is simple. If anything, Guillo having a protective role at all is what *doesn't fit* with dave and RN's claims - they are somewhat complicated roles that are balanced with each other to not give the town more guilty-power. Guillo's role would allow RN to get a guilty.

Yeah I was referring to a situation RN crumbed the target every day and hadn't claimed yet as the situation where he's a 1-guilty cop.

Like the situation the reviewers considered as opposed to the situation right now.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE:

Timmer

I feel this kill kinda clears Dunn in a way

Timmer is kinda confscum

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Okay. Am I actually confirmed town now? At least fron RN's pov. Everyone should out results or w.e

Considering RN is conftown for his claim, you are indeed conftown unless he changed his target

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Separate neighborhoods. I've seen it go either way in the past so not a huge surprise.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I still think Timmer is town here.

You and Elements being town confirms one of TImmer/Enchant as being scum

And I don't think it's Enchant

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Why not enchant?

Feel their play is towny. Could be wrong.

I still think Timmer is town here.

You and Elements being town confirms one of TImmer/Enchant as being scum

And I don't think it's Enchant

Explain this please.

I am cleared town by interaction with both Roden and Gamma
Guillo is cleared town also by interaction with both Roden and Gamma
Naerys is cleared town for being Friendly Neighbor
You are cleared town because you would not make up this role as scum
Hu Tao is cleared town because you didn't die targeting them
Dunn/Kyouko are never scum together because that would leave town with too much power, and Dunn is town for claiming Miller first.
So that leaves a PoE of Kyouko, Timmer, davesaz and Enchant. It's possible I incorrectly cleared someone but I think we should only worry about that possibility AFTER we flip Timmer.


Additionally and disregarding all the clears I just mentioned, I think it's highly unlikely there's no scum in the VT claims. That would require every single scum player to claim not vanilla (remember that Gamma claimed Gunsmith and Roden claimed Doctor?), and that just doesn't happen?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I do think mafia could have a backup alien. Maybe neither of the power roles threaten mafia because they can roleblock Random Nurse and a mafia goon did not lie about being a PR for Davesaz' role.

Do you scumread Hu Tao though?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Enchant let's vote Timmer

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Said it before and I'll say it again, Dunn claimed Miller first because he checked the game thread first. I'm not scum for not being faster than Dunn to check the thread.

I did not say you were scum for not posting first. In fact I townread you.

Still, Dunn posting first is, on a mechanical level, +town for him.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Paranoia is making me think it's Dunnstral.

Someone reel me back in.

That's a fair thought to have, but let's kill Timmer first? I am NOT losing this game because scum said "please lim me" and everyone decided that this was somehow towny.

I do think mafia could have a backup alien. Maybe neither of the power roles threaten mafia because they can roleblock Random Nurse and a mafia goon did not lie about being a PR for Davesaz' role.

Do you scumread Hu Tao though?

I will always suspect the role claim shenanigans they pulled this game

I'm pretty much confirmed town. Please stop with this, it adds nothing. What do you think of the other slots? Anyone you see as a pair?

I think it's time to claim my true role:
I'm Odd-Day Hu Tao Condemner, Even-Day Hu Tao Savior.

More seriously though, I did not give much thought to pairings. I feel game is kinda dead right now and if we want to advance it we should kill the dead slots (mainly Timmer) and then if he flips scum use that for associations and if he flips town we have a much smaller pool to find scum in and a whole bunch of flips to read people off of, without the paranoia that a quiet slot is scum.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Also, do YOU see a pair, Hu Tao?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I do think mafia could have a backup alien. Maybe neither of the power roles threaten mafia because they can roleblock Random Nurse and a mafia goon did not lie about being a PR for Davesaz' role.

Do you scumread Hu Tao though?

I will always suspect the role claim shenanigans they pulled this game

I'm pretty much confirmed town. Please stop with this, it adds nothing. What do you think of the other slots? Anyone you see as a pair?

Gut does not like this response.

Too bad for you, Hu Tao is my Savior target for today so we're not voting her.

Maybe RN is scum. Because that makes 0 sense.

Nope. You should stop scumreading anyone who scumreads you.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

The lim today is Trimmer, thank you.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

The lim today is Trimmer, thank you.

Can we get an explicit yes or no on receiving a message please?

No clue why you think this is important considering Andres is confed, but no, I did not receive a message.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I will be busy due partying (sort of). Not VLA i will be here, but kinda... Yeah.


My primal question to Guillotine is why bother to CC Roden, who was obviously evil, but not CC Hu Tao? It probably resolved somewhere, but it requires me to look answers up in all these pages.

With "oh i couldn't protect so sorry i already protected that rolecop N1" sounds not to convincing, and mafia (who lost roleblocker) having undeniable knowledge that they will successfully perform kill with alive doctor claim is like attempt to rush in guarded gate, while honking noses of guards. Successfully.

... Eh. Guilotine probably just mafia, who "CCed" Roden, i put it that.

That's actually a pretty good question, since Roden WAS obvscum and there WAS absolutely zero reason to claim when I had already CC'd him.

I could see Guillo scum maaaaybe.

Also Enchant is town.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

RN if you are not gonna target Dave, target one of the miller claims please.

I think trying to change the plan at the last second causes confusion and is scummy.

Yah? RN said he was gonna target Naerys and I said it is useless as she confirmed herself to me, I actually suggested he stayed on course by targeting Dave and if he was not gonna do it then to target the millers aka you or Kyouko. So?

I said I MIGHT, not that I WAS.

I did mention possibly targeting Naerys to instill some doubt into Scum.

I did target Hu Tao.

I'm not 100% convinced because there could have been interference by a Scum PR.

Ok then. So as long as we don't see a scum flip that reveals a role that could potentially influence your result, we must treat it as a clear.

VOTE: Guillotina

What? You got a result from your own very role and instead you wanna make judgements based on paranoia and mechanic speculation, no, we are not gonna do that.

Kill timmer please.

This (and all the other Guillo posts on that page) makes me think Guillo is town once again

Can we just lim Timmer?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

The lim today is Trimmer, thank you.

Why exactly are you so stuck on Timmer again?

He scum? Duh.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

If Andres didn't send mail because forgot, i choke from laugh.

He died. Unless the night order of operations is different here, communications happen after kills everywhere I play.

I'll take this as you didnt receive the message either - shooting happens last, so message would be sent, meaning he either forgot or he sent it to scum who decided not to say they got the message.

Scum are not multitasking by default, so if andres did not forget to send his message, and a kill happened, it means at most one scum was free to act.

Andres died which means he was not the target of an aliening from a backup alien/universal backup, which means whoever he tried to message is the one that got aliened, or he messaged scum that is not announcing. We know this was not dave or BQ2 because of the hood.

Most likely if there is an alien they would have targeted town!RN, going to check if andres indicated who he might target, my guess is the lack of a message points to one of {targeted scum, target was aliened}

Why are you even assuming Alien? Could be roleblocker or rolestopper.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Btw I would love to try to catch up and play and contribute, but the concept of why I'm thy lim target just makes there be no point. So just lim me, there's no point in me trying to catch up. I can't argue against nothing, you all know deep down that I'm town but you just don't seem to care.

Why are you defensive when earlier you asked to be limmed

If you actually are town and think you should contribute to finding scum, then BY JOLLY, go ahead and read the last 20-30 pages (don't have to read all game, that would be insane) and tell us who you think is scum.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

This is not a game for a newbie, and even when I ask an effing question, I get told I'm feigning being town and making my questions up. So there's literally nowhere for me to go.

I agree it's not a game for a newbie. I am not really sure why you signed up for it considering it's clearly tagged as mechanically complex.

Still, let me help you. Mechanical clear means that the mechanics of the game (i.e power roles) cleared a person. A person who is investigated inno by a cop is a mech clear. A person who is an un'cced PR in an open game with said PR is a mechanical clear.

No one in this game is actually a public mechanical clear, but Naerys (who claimed Friendly Neighbor on Guillotina) is a mechanical clear in the eyes of Guillotina, and since I think Guillotine is town then I also consider Naerys a mechanical clear. Hu Tao is a mechanical clear IF there is no roleblocker / rolestopper, due to how RN's role works (ssbm_Kyouko explained it earlier).

[Broccoli Quest 2]

This is not a game for a newbie, and even when I ask an effing question, I get told I'm feigning being town and making my questions up. So there's literally nowhere for me to go.

I agree it's not a game for a newbie. I am not really sure why you signed up for it considering it's clearly tagged as mechanically complex.

Still, let me help you. Mechanical clear means that the mechanics of the game (i.e power roles) cleared a person. A person who is investigated inno by a cop is a mech clear. A person who is an un'cced PR in an open game with said PR is a mechanical clear.

No one in this game is actually a public mechanical clear, but Naerys (who claimed Friendly Neighbor on Guillotina) is a mechanical clear in the eyes of Guillotina, and since I think Guillotine is town then I also consider Naerys a mechanical clear. Hu Tao is a mechanical clear IF there is no roleblocker / rolestopper, due to how RN's role works (ssbm_Kyouko explained it earlier).

You seriously think this person is scum? Can we please try something else?

If I'm 100% honest, I don't have amazing reasons to think Timmer is scum. But I do have pretty good reasons for almost everyone else to be town so I am kind of at a loss here

Do you wanna wagon Dunn (or Kyo even) and see what happens?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

This is not a game for a newbie, and even when I ask an effing question, I get told I'm feigning being town and making my questions up. So there's literally nowhere for me to go.

I agree it's not a game for a newbie. I am not really sure why you signed up for it considering it's clearly tagged as mechanically complex.

Still, let me help you. Mechanical clear means that the mechanics of the game (i.e power roles) cleared a person. A person who is investigated inno by a cop is a mech clear. A person who is an un'cced PR in an open game with said PR is a mechanical clear.

No one in this game is actually a public mechanical clear, but Naerys (who claimed Friendly Neighbor on Guillotina) is a mechanical clear in the eyes of Guillotina, and since I think Guillotine is town then I also consider Naerys a mechanical clear. Hu Tao is a mechanical clear IF there is no roleblocker / rolestopper, due to how RN's role works (ssbm_Kyouko explained it earlier).

You seriously think this person is scum? Can we please try something else?

I hate what i have to write, but limming Timmer makes sense. He is clearly struggling, doesnt really know what to do. I kinda feel like it would be mercy for him to be eliminated and not having to suffer anymore. We can afford a mislim and for us its also better not keeping him here untill endgame.
Also he could be scum, i remember how Khaos acted so its not really that unlikely.

This is also a good point

You can't townread someone for making endless "I don't know how to play this game" posts. It's at best NAI. I know Timmer played well in his last town game (and he was also complaining there if I recall correctly), but based on how he's playing now he's not even going to try and solve. I already told him that if he's town he should read the game and gove reads.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Also how likely is it really that vanilla Hu Tao fakeclaims Guillo's exact modifiers? Complex Indecisive, minus the 2-shot? If I were in town!Guillo's shoes I would think Hu Tao's claim must be coming from an Informed role

Guillotina, did you protect Celebloki?

No, it was impossible for me to protect Cele again.

Also. Full claim 2-shot Indecisive Doctor, i protected Celebloki on night 1 and Broc last night.

I also received a mod message that someone is town aligned, i will not disclose this info until they decide to claim.

I am a complex indecisive doctor. That sounds about right

Hold on. Let me look at my role pm

The only similarity here is the Indecisive.

Anyway, I don't have any motivation to try and find scum among the people I TR before we either get rid of Timmer or he actually starts to solve.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Hu Tao, you promise you are town and I can just sheep you?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Hi, can't be bothered to read everything, but I can confirm the neighborhood I'm in was created when I was neighborized and not before that. I think that's pretty solid evidence for davesaz speaking the truth.

HEAL: Enchant

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Don't think dave/Enchant are ever s/s here.

I should also read JV at some point to decide if they are town or not - will do that later

Leaning towards a vote on Dunn, but I wanna think about it a bit more before I do it.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Yo so ik I haven't caught up but Elements works with my current reads

Hi Australia person, Elementos is deaderino

[Broccoli Quest 2]

davesaz, do you remember 4 hours ago when you made this post?

Is there uh, anything I can do to help dave?

Quote things and say what you think about them would be a good start. More than just like or don't like. For me to evaluate your alignment (or anyone's) I need to know if what you say makes sense given the events, and that's pretty well impossible without a fair amount of because clauses.

In light of this post, do you think it is fair to say that you are not following your own standards for others as written above?

I made a post about you. I didn't elaborate because I didn't want to seem to be offensive, but when town you tend to push a lot of questionable theories that make very little sense.
I had a similar aha moment in a recent game about someone else who happens to be in this game, and flipping that person's meta turned out to be spot on as a scumtell, at least in that game.
So I'm giving it a go here to see if there's anything to it.

davesaz can you elaborate on your read of dunn here?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Can we like, NOT vote Enchant? They are third obvtown slot after Nurse and HT.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Can we like, NOT vote Enchant? They are third obvtown slot after Nurse and HT.

Whom do you SR?

I don't really scumread anyone, but the people I least TR would be JV, davesaz, and the millers

And I do TR the millers quite a bit.

I have a problem of having too narrow a PoE. So I want to kill JV and then re-evaluate. And if JV is scum then all the better.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Although I also see this and, since all 3 of dave, BQ2, and enchant can't be scum, it does seem at least some kind of error has been made, unless this was later revised:

Role PMs will be standardized. Moderators will no longer provide their own role PMs; instead, they can grab the standard PM from the wiki. This is a work in progress, so for now, you'll still need to write PMs, though the wiki has sample PMs already for most roles.

Idk about "revised", but having modded several Normal games on my main account I can tell you this is 100% not being followed, and mods are required to provide their own PMs for every game.

I believe there

might

be an ongoing effort to standardize this, but it's definitely not complete and probably not going to be completed any time soon based on this post (note the last 2 paragraphs where Ausuka mentions the finalization stage and talks about mods creating PMs for Normal games).

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I am an alt, and I've played with all three of you before several times.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Nurse where does your sense of scent say the scum are

I am not feeling as much aggression from you this game and I am starting to doubt my obvTown read on you (you can thank your own post for that, since it made me re-evaluate).

[Broccoli Quest 2]

This is slow. Let's ignore the neighbor thing I guess. I still think mafia is likely between enchant and JacksonVirgo based on neither of those slots having been voting for Roden. Both have since had replacements so not much to talk about in terms of defense on their parts.

Cool can we kill Jackson already

Can we like, NOT vote Enchant? They are third obvtown slot after Nurse and HT.

I feel like Enchant is likely scum and pred was obv scum. Not a clue where you'd get obv town.

Key was nullish. What's obvscum about them?

Enchant feels like their town self but I know Enchant is ostensibly unreadable so everybody is gonna think I'm wrong or something.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Different

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Naerys locktown from last 3 posts

This changes things for me slightly

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I'm not voting Dunn or kyouko

Why?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE: JV

Pretty sure I was already voting, but just emphasizing my vote

If you are right that this flips town then I am pretty sure that Dunn is just coasting scum

But I don't think JV is town. They are feeling detached / low effort here, which I do not think is in line with their town game, but is in line with their scum game. Timmer wasn't really towny either. It's an obvscum slot and limming Guillo is just stupid.

I think JV's flips cracks the game open (since rn we can all agree it's pretty stagnant and also deadlocked), whereas Guillo flip adds nothing except getting Naerys nightkilled. Which is bad because we want scum to be forced to kill in PoE.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Going to shrug and vote Enchant as a compromise

VOTE: Enchant

This is slow. Let's ignore the neighbor thing I guess. I still think mafia is likely between enchant and JacksonVirgo based on neither of those slots having been voting for Roden. Both have since had replacements so not much to talk about in terms of defense on their parts.

Maybe Dunn is just scum

VOTE: Dunn

[Broccoli Quest 2]

but is in line with their scum game.

lol what? Do you even know me? I'm much more into my scum games lmfao

You're pulling that out of your ass, why?

I read a few of your games

I agree that in the one you were scum with the worst you were pretty into the game, but I didn't feel you were into it Mafia Have a Cop

I think there was another one but I forgot, so maybe I'm just wrong about this

Anyway if you are here, care to tell me what you think of this gamestate? Game feels dead and I think this means scum aren't feeling pressured to do anything.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

And as to my question?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Those are millers, not masons

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Naerys, sheep me please.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Lock town: Naerys, Enchant

Almost lock town: Hu Tao, Guillo, Nurse

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE: JV

Pretty sure I was already voting, but just emphasizing my vote

If you are right that this flips town then I am pretty sure that Dunn is just coasting scum

But I don't think JV is town. They are feeling detached / low effort here, which I do not think is in line with their town game, but is in line with their scum game. Timmer wasn't really towny either. It's an obvscum slot and limming Guillo is just stupid.

I think JV's flips cracks the game open (since rn we can all agree it's pretty stagnant and also deadlocked), whereas Guillo flip adds nothing except getting Naerys nightkilled. Which is bad because we want scum to be forced to kill in PoE.

Stop trying to vote out town

How about you stop trying to vote out town?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I promise

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Lock town: Naerys, Enchant

Almost lock town: Hu Tao, Guillo, Nurse

I can't agree on Enchant, and you won't be surprised that not listing me here draws considerable ire.

Why should I be locking you town?

And as I said, I don't expect people to agree on Enchant. That's my take on them anyway.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE: JV

Hu Tao I know you are the queen of reads but if you want me to blindly sheep you this game we need to flip JV. Then I will just do whatever you say.

Naerys, I'm still waiting to be sheeped.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Not true, you sheep kyouko.

You can't be sheeped if you are sheep

I was voting JV earlier, switched back when it gained momentum. Doesn't count as sheeping.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE: JV

Oh no

Naerys was right

I am actually pocketing her

[Broccoli Quest 2]

zzz

scum response to wagon

If I was Scum I wouldn't have claimed such a ridiculously convoluted PR.

I agree with this

same

I won't be voting this. I still think guillotine gives us the most information today.

Well then we just wait for Guillo to come in and vote JV

And Enchant should, too

[Broccoli Quest 2]

scum response to wagon

Aint you gonna look goofy. You make a judgement based on my meta which I told you outright was you just cherry picking what you feel fits your agenda which you just ignored (typical) and then you say this when realistically can you explain why it's a scum response?

I don't think I ignored? I said my meta might be wrong

[Broccoli Quest 2]

please explain why town would respond this way and who do you wanna kill today considering you TR Guillo

[Broccoli Quest 2]

OK so why exactly are people voting JV now instead of Guillotina?

Gut is saying Guillotina currently.

Why exactly is Guillotina scum?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Hu Tao, you should learn from Flavor. If you think JV is town but want to get Guillo, just vote out JV today, show me that I was wrong, and I will 100% vote Guillo with you tomorrow.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Given JV's location and the time of day, I interpreted zzz as literally bedtime.

Your interpretation of timezones is erroneous. It was about 10 AM for JV when they posted that.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Hu Tao, you should learn from Flavor. If you think JV is town but want to get Guillo, just vote out JV today, show me that I was wrong, and I will 100% vote Guillo with you tomorrow.

I think this is how scum Flavor gets mislims.

It's also how town Flavor operates (and often still wins)

[Broccoli Quest 2]

WE DON'T NEED TO CONFIRM NAERYS

NAERYS IS OBVTOWN

Can we PLEASE kill JV instead?

I'm literally telling you that no matter what JV flips, I'll sheep you tomorrow. And if I sheep you, whoever you vote will be eliminated. 100% guaranteed.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Here's some math:

You vote whoever you want

I sheep you

Kyo trusts you and me probably

Naerys can be told to sheep

Enchant (correctly) thinks I am their ally

That's 5 votes. We need 5 votes for a lim tomorrow. You do the math.

Today, we vote JV, get rid of either a scum or a slot that's adamantly against solving even after being replaced, that uses AtE and "your meta sucks" as the ONLY reasons they shouldn't be elimmed. But probably it's just scum.

Then tomorrow it's Sheep Hu Tao Tuesday (accounting for a 48 hour break for the night).

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Naur

???

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Hu Tao please

This game is DEAD

I want to have an actual gamestate that's conductive to solving

JV not solving and getting to live despite being obvscum is not conductive to solving, it's conductive to town starting to eat itself up.

I wouldn't be saying this if I didn't think it was the right move.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Naur

???

It means no

I'm asking what are you "Nauring" about.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Saying your meta is wrong isn’t AtE, the fuck? It’s calling you out for cherry picking to fit your agenda

There's an AND there.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

2 deaths means that RN targeted scum

I'll target Guillotina. Or Dunnstral. Probably Guillotina.

VOTE:

Guillotina

Sorry Hu Tao, but as you can see things are easier now.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

2 deaths means that RN targeted scum

I'll target Guillotina. Or Dunnstral. Probably Guillotina.

VOTE:

Guillotina

Sorry Hu Tao, but as you can see things are easier now.

I mean. We could have just voted him out yesterday

Technically true but I have now sold my vote to you. And I really would have gone anywhere else yesterday but Guillo.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Technically true but I have now sold my vote to you. And I really would have gone anywhere else yesterday but Guillo.

?

So yeah I think I'll still be alive toMorrow, I think PoP toDay and if he's town, Dunn toMorrow obviously.

BQ2 probably dying so if you have anything to add before we do this, or any of your ISO you want to highlight before toNight, now's the time. Normally this is where I don't want to rush because I'm dying but it's not me for once

Does anyone think it's more likely to be Dunn than PoP? Or has anyone actually thought about it? My instinct is that it's just PoP here - Guillo's votes were way TMI, and his claim stinks, and I've just had this sneaking suspicion of him most of the game but I feel like I'm not

considering

Dunn

I do have this to add: I think it might be BOTH. JV flipping town looks really bad on Dunnstral tbh, and Guillk flipping scum would look even worse on him. Just look at the timing of when Dunn voted Timmer/JV both the last day and the day before the that - he was coasting and changing for an LHF when people wanted LHF. He also jumped on Guillk counterwagon.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE: Dunn

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I believe that's only E-1, can someone unvote please? I'm still catching up on the game

I think it was a hammer

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE: Dunn

This wasn't our agreement

PoP is hammered so doesn't matter.

I am creating possible pairings in my head tho.
If Prince of Paterson is scum, then the other one is in kyou/Dunn/enchant
If the millers are real then its likely enchant.

Or i am pocketed by Broccoli and he is the last scum.
Overthinking stuff again

I thought you hates broccoli. How could I ever pocket you?

Besides, I didn't even try to.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I think Dunn is scum 90% of time here. 99% if PoP is town due to guilty, 90% if scum due to association.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE: Dunn

This wasn't our agreement

PoP is hammered so doesn't matter.

I am creating possible pairings in my head tho.
If Prince of Paterson is scum, then the other one is in kyou/Dunn/enchant
If the millers are real then its likely enchant.

Or i am pocketed by Broccoli and he is the last scum.
Overthinking stuff again

I thought you hates broccoli. How could I ever pocket you?

Besides, I didn't even try to.

Sad.
Up till recently i thought u are town but i am going paranoid and overthinking stuff.
Also the fact you are not trying to pocket anyone is weird, you usually like to pocket people as town.

Different account, different rules.

They try to pocket me though

"Tried"? Are you implying you aren't my ally?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I am supposed to sleep.
But i have insomnia. Again.

Goodnight Enchant. Hope you mamage to get a good rest and have sweet dreams of hammering lots of mafia.

I should also go to sleep btw.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Alright, Dunnstral last scum and game is solved.

First, let us eliminate all other possibilities:
1. Enchant - they actually tried to do things this game which automatically makes them conftown.
2. Kyo - I am the best person at reading Kyo (except maybe Gamma) because that's what I declared and my word is law. And I, as your mighty broccoli leader, am telling you that we are in the presence of town!Kyo.
3. Naerys - Naerys is a tricky one because having FN'd mafia she's not actually conftowned. I am going to have another look at her shortly but I believe I have said she was lock town. Therefore she is locktown at least until I have another look.
4. And of the course you have me, your humble conf-green broccoli who has led you away from killing Hu Taown Day 2 and onto Roden. The very same broccoli that has had anti-partnered interactions with not one, not two, but three flipped scum (yes, I

know

guillo also had anti-partnered interactions with a flipped scum, but don't interrupt my speech please).

So that leaves us with Dunnstral (or Naerys, I'm going to have a look right now for the reason I locktowned Naerys).

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Okay I did check Naerys ISO and she's not locktown but I am leaning town there.

Massive scumcase on Dunnstral incoming.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Uhhhh I could have SWORN this post was made by Dinnstral, not Guillotina:

VOTE: Hu Tao

Nice naked vote there

That does make me need to reconsider somewhat

[Broccoli Quest 2]

But like, LOL. If I knew it was made by Guillo I would have voted Guillo over JV, it's such a TMI post.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

VOTE: Hu Tao

Oh, I see what confused me.

Hmmm

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I need more time to think.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I have no idea what you mean considering:
1. There WAS a kill last night
2. Guillotina is both replaced out AND dead

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Welp, I was trying to keep Guilll hidden with my claim, but oh well.

Where did you see Guillo indicate that they are doctor before this?

there are bold letters in this post that spell out "I'm doc":

Pre-Flip Associations analysis Part 1

For this analysis,

I

'm going to look at the game from a third party perspective, pretending Guillotina is just another player.

The following are not Mafia/Mafia together:

Kyo/Guillo based on the following:

Holy shit you're here
VOTE: Guillotina
For that one time in that one game

Dunn/elements based on the following

Reason: The way he questioned ele

m

ents there. It was designed to attract attention on elements.

Gamma and Black probably town

Gamma has done what so far?

Elements/Dave based on the following:

Reason: Mafia dont pocket each other in RvS, they instead

D

istance.

Gamma and Black probably town

Gamma has done what so far?

Why not the same amount of puzzlement at both?

I like this
You can be town too, for now

Black/Elements based on this post:

Reason: Black's attack is too visceral and emotional to c

o

me from a partner imo.

Elements you have 13 posts on this page. Can you chill

I did pre-emptively apologise

Why is your plan to spam the thread with a bunch of nothing posts?

Elements you have 13 posts on this page. Can you chill

I did pre-emptively apologise

Why is your plan to spam the thread with a bunch of nothing posts?

I feel you're being too dismissive of Elemental's posts, she's asked,

Does anyone else think it's scum indicating when someone isn't voting?

Defended you as town
Apologized for her playstyle

Constantly vote switching is confusing, I want to know why she switched to Nono, any explanation/elabaration is good
Even if it's "spam" she's observing, questioning, defending

At the time I had counted 9 relevant posts and 10 spammy ones. That's a lot of posts for two pages. Elements said she's bored with no impulse control so I'm just gonna let her do her thang

Kawaii/Kyo based on the following:

Reason: The way Kawaii brought attention to kyo's vote patterns was done in a very discrediting way to

c

ome from a partner.

VOTE: Nono

Why Nono?

To see if the null vote is to do with kyouko or nono

VOTE: nono

VOTE: Guillotina

Kyouko voted Nono then voted Guilotina, nulling her Nono vote

I'm not sure. Dunn's claim felt like a joke with it being the first post of the game. Kyouko's feels more real but I'm not familiar enough with her to tell if it's coming from scum

I feel Duun's claim is genuine, millers often claim miller in their opening posts. Duun's miller claim feels straight up, unlikely that mafia plays this directly. Kyouko feels real/potentially opportunistic, shielding herself behind the initial miller claim if she is mafia

VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko

Gamma/Elements based on the following

Reason: Question was formulated as a shade.

Gamma and Black probably town

Gamma has done what so far?

Why not the same amount of puzzlement at both?

I like this
You can be town too, for now

The post you are referring to is in response to me, so thinking we are the same slot would mean your reason for thinking Dave is town does not make sense

I think that us probably where the confusion came from
Your names being right next to each other and so relating to each other in my head. Then when I made the post where I called you town they got mixed up together

That seems odd
You didn’t question why someone would quote themself?

Hu Tao/Timmer based on this interaction

VT

I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

So scum will not target me and I can last till end game. I believe in myself to find scum as long as I'm alive long enough. Now I just need to be towny enough to not be voted out. I've eliminated half of the work.

Gamma/Random Nurse based on the following

Reason: RN's reaction to Gamma on the faking being a noob accusation was too personal and emotional for mafia/mafia

Is 4:13 the most likely breakdown with 17 players?

These questions get old real fast

Is 4:13 the most likely breakdown with 17 players?

These questions get old real fast

Well aren't you a peach.

I know who you are, so the act doesn't fool me.

Guillo/Kawaii based on this post

Reason: Guillo's question was formulated in a way to bring attention on Kawaii.

VOTE: Nono

Why Nono?

To see if the null vote is to do with kyouko or nono

VOTE: nono

VOTE: Guillotina

Kyouko voted Nono then voted Guilotina, nulling her Nono vote

And not her vote on me whom had not posted at the time?

Black/Guillo based on this post

My preliminary reads:

Town

Black
Kawaii

Mixed Feelings

Kyouko

Scum

Naerys
Hu
Gamma
Celebloki

Why do you have mixed feelings about kyouko?

VOTE: Kyouko

VOTE: Kyouko

Why did you 2 vote Kyouko?

I think she could be scum and I wanted a wagon

Not really liking Guillotina's unvote

I had been voting Guillo right before this but immediately unvoted when I saw the crumb.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I know, Enchant.

All players from towniest to scummiest:

BQ2

Enchant
Naerys

Kyo

Dunn

Therefore
VOTE: Dunn

[Broccoli Quest 2]

No. I think Dunn has the least reasons to be town, but if he flips town I will need to re-evaluate. And if I get nightkilled then you will need to re-evaluate.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Well, hmm... I'm not sure how it would work. I think I was thinking (the first time I had this thought when Guillo.flipped) that Doctor could target RN to make all his targets look town, but when I remembered Macho I realized that doesnt work. Going to have to check with the mod.

Wrong.

Doctor flip makes Hu Tao unconfed because:
Assume Hu Tao is scum. Nurse targets her, Guillo protects her. Vig shot is blocked by Guillo before the Bodyguard can trigger. The fact Nurse is Macho is irrelevant and is mostly there to mislead (or to prevent "follow the pseudo-cop" together with unclaimed babysitter).



Enchant, to answer your question: the point of readlist is to show where I'm at.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Kyo made an interesting case but tbh I am not sold on it completely. I will say though that if it's not Dunnstral it's likely Naerys, because Kyo just shot up in towniness.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

TOWN
Your humble broccoli overlord
Enchant
Kyo
Naerys
Dunnstral
SCUM

[Broccoli Quest 2]

with me town and kyou likely town
scum is inenchant -broccoli-dunn
if the miller claims are both true then its enchant or broccoli

Where the analysis tho

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I didn't really express opinion on most i just showed that mostly your perfomance lacking, you only joined when both slots are doomed so your accusations are hypocritical.

I'm actually confused what you mean here.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I AM SCUM HUNTING
HOW I AM SUPPOSED TO SCUM HUNT IF THE PERSON JUST GOES "SHUT IT, I AM ANNOYED"

YOU REPEAT SAME INVALID ARGUMENT LIKE 10 TIMES YES WE GOT THIS I AM NOT ON WAGON KNOCK IT OFF

So.... can we call it TvT and call it a day and just lim Dunnstral whose only contribution in this day phase was asking me a nonsense question and whose only contribution on whatever day phase it was we killed JV (I think Day 4?) was naked voting whoever people voted?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Hey Broccoli Quest 2, can you briefly explain why it was a good idea for Guillotina to perform no kill last night.

I have no idea what you mean considering:
1. There WAS a kill last night
2. Guillotina is both replaced out AND dead

I meant the night before when random nurse and davesaz both died.

Ooooh

I guess because that way there would be no way to to differentiate between a guilty from RN and him being killed by maf.

Though technically in a town!Dunn world it's strictly better to kill RN than to no kill in order to prevent an inno.

UNVOTE:

Should have done that earlier.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Mini 2321 is my first scum game if anyone is interested

Yeah, I already knew that for a while.

Do you think Dunn is similar between here and there? I'm undecided.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I'll probably put more thought into this game closer to deadline. Don't really have the time or motivation right now.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I'll say something when we have a Kyouko.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

To be clear, I won't be voting anyone until we have a replacement.

Also, Dunnstral, why did you ask the question in 3506? There wasn't any follow up to it.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Why did it matter where I had seen it?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Don't prod me!

StD can u please agree with my town core of BQ2/Enchant/StD and then we can kill Naerys > Dunn and win?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Enchanted Dragon Quest 2 town core.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

tbh I townread everyone alive. It just so happens that I have better reasons to TR Enchant and Kyoko than you and Dunn.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

hi i am skimming thru the game

Don't recommend. A lot of really unnecessary pages.

You should probably just read the massclaim and skim everything from that point onwards.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Sure. Just do me a favor and don't lim Enchant if we're wrong and I die tonight.

VOTE: Naerys

[Broccoli Quest 2]

shame Broccoli refused to stay in that pocket
but i dont really have any will to fight left, sorry my buddies
VOTE: Naerys

Sorry Naerys <3

You did really well though. I think you have a lot of potential to be a good scum player. You fooled me for a large portion of the game.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I still find it hilarious that I was accidentally scumreading Dunnstral for a post that Guillotina made. Because it was a correct scunread, just on the wrong person!

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Just saw dead thread, good job Black!

And also good job Gamma on the associatoves that virtually cleared Guillo. I will never fully clear someone based on interactions with flipped scum alone.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Why does Dunnstral have the link for the dead PT though?