Mini Normal 2329: complex. [game over!]

[Hu Tao]

have been toying w scenario where we test gera's claim w my shot...

Couldn't scum kill whoever you say to protect? And that would be unable to figure out anything right?

[Hu Tao]

Okay final call from what I think should go down

Eliminate Gera
Titus: Roleblock Kay
Hu Tao: Gun check Kay
Psyche: Vig Ari

I think this leaves us in the best situation

[Hu Tao]

Assuming I have a gun check left of course*

[Hu Tao]

I'm going back to my reads of it being Gera and Ari.

I think Titus claiming day 2 when she was under no pressure might have been town her. But I can't say for sure. But she also didn't die which was weird.

BUT scum could have thought Titus Roleblocked the vigilante which was Dann and that's why there was no vigilante kill. Thus why they killed Dann. But unsure on that obviously

[Hu Tao]

Okay final call from what I think should go down

Eliminate Gera
Titus: Roleblock Kay
Hu Tao: Gun check Kay
Psyche: Vig Ari

I think this leaves us in the best situation

I don't see the substantial change if psyche shoots you or ari. if the roleblock works then kay is donezo.

That's assuming gera flips scum. But it doesn't cover is gera is town

[Hu Tao]

Umm on 2682, wouldn't it be better to check me as Kay would be blocked

Oh this is true

[Hu Tao]

so hutao def doesnt want to be shot despite the reasoning that we win either way

No. Like I said that scenario wouldn't cover gera town

[Hu Tao]

Either way no chance I'm scum this game and should never be shot. I pretty much crumbed everything perfectly

[Hu Tao]

So if I have a check left I'm checking Titus not Kay

[Hu Tao]

I have a question, wouldn’t it make sense to not have 2 roles on me? Roleblock me but gun check Titus? Because if there’s a chance Titus is lying, do we get confirmed info about Titus? This has to assume gera is scum. Because how do we get confirmed info on Hu/Titus when they can just say “yeah I role blocked/gun checked” you, etc.

Yep that was a mistake on my end

[Hu Tao]

so hutao def doesnt want to be shot despite the reasoning that we win either way

No. Like I said that scenario wouldn't cover gera town

hu tao is wrong here by the way
even if gera is town, we really only do need one consensus townread among the unconfirmed to ensure a win

Okay then I'm the obvious town read

[Hu Tao]

Please let's not stall this by the way like we did with NAS. The people want to hear from aren't gonna be here for 2 days anyway

[Hu Tao]

I don't see kjq coming up with the informed role...

Same. Unless she's like an informed scum already but like. I still think her role works with mine.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: gera

Let's end this day already. That way RN and Titus will be back when the day begins. Literally nothing changes. We end this day with gera being eliminated regardless

[Hu Tao]

i think we should all agree on who the team is if Geraintm is town which is worst case scenario since his elim feels inevitable today

if gera is mafia this is basically a won game because titus can block tonight and that will either generate a clear - which is 2 elims in 3 uncleared or leave us at 7p tomm which is 3 elims out of 4 uncleared.

the main problem is what world are we in if gera is town.

i think hu tao/titus is a viable teamsolve if thats the case.

Yeah okay. Sorry you're wrong here. But you're likely scum anyway

[Hu Tao]

Wait so we’re not waiting for the two VLA? I guess I misunderstood what we were agreeing to earlier. Are we saying it’s not worth waiting?

No. Because the day is ending with gera being the Elim anyway. So I think we shouldn't wait. We did this yesterday unnecessarily

[Hu Tao]

Because I don't think that was any pressure

[Hu Tao]

I don't think there's really a world where Titus makes up this role blocker story to justify pushing me as scum, it's so unnecessary and comes from a townie with an overwhelming sense of confidence in their own reads 99/100

I agree with Dann here. Like it wasn't like she was forced to claim. Seemed more natural. I could be wrong but yeah.

[Hu Tao]

If Klick was vigged, Dannflor is likely scum.

Like Titus did this in the beginning of day 2. So you're saying she was setting this up to say she was a role blocker later in the day when there was any light pressure?

[Hu Tao]

only reason to continue day is if anyone wants to have another say about where night actions go

i'm just gonna do what i want in the end, secure that it won't lose the game either way, but would loveee to be right

No stalling please

[Hu Tao]

worst case scenario if gera is scum, with arbitrary choices within the defined lim/shot pools
assumes a siingle remaining scum is in (kay, hu tao, titus, ari)

D3:
gera flips scum

N3:
roleblock fails to prevent a kill on a confirmed or clear a slot, so one of RN/me/PC dies
a hypothetical vig shot hits town (let's say ari)
leaving 1 scum remaining in 3 of: Titus, Hu Tao, KayJayQueue

D4:
6v2 -> 4v1
remaining scum would be one of: titus/hutao/kay
remaining town would be two of: me/rn/pc, and someone in the above group
town has 1/3 chance of guessing right!
we guess wrong, maybe picking titus so remaining scum would be one of: hutao/kay

N4:
scum kill in the confirmed, leaving just one alive in: me/rn/pc

D5:
2v1, mylo
game is a 1v1 between the 2 players still alive in titus/hutao/kay
remaining town would be the survivor of: me/rn/pc, and someone in the above group
all up to the survivor! town has a 50/50 chance of guessing right

something feels off in this math. it seems to imply that whether we call gera correctly or not, we have the same chance of winning. there's either an error here or in my earlier post

This is wrong since Kay would have been role blocked. Thus only having a scum in me or Titus from any scenario

[Hu Tao]

I don't think scum have a strong arm otherwise NaS' role makes no sense

[Hu Tao]

I'm fine with voting now

[Hu Tao]

Assuming Kay's role is legitimate, which I think it is. I'm curious how PC was chosen. Imagine we just got unlucky from a random draw and it wasn't an inno on someone else

[Hu Tao]

worst case scenario if gera is scum, with arbitrary choices within the defined lim/shot pools
assumes a siingle remaining scum is in (kay, hu tao, titus, ari)

D3:
gera flips scum

N3:
roleblock fails to prevent a kill on a confirmed or clear a slot, so one of RN/me/PC dies
a hypothetical vig shot hits town (let's say ari)
leaving 1 scum remaining in 3 of: Titus, Hu Tao, KayJayQueue

D4:
6v2 -> 4v1
remaining scum would be one of: titus/hutao/kay
remaining town would be two of: me/rn/pc, and someone in the above group
town has 1/3 chance of guessing right!
we guess wrong, maybe picking titus so remaining scum would be one of: hutao/kay

N4:
scum kill in the confirmed, leaving just one alive in: me/rn/pc

D5:
2v1, mylo
game is a 1v1 between the 2 players still alive in titus/hutao/kay
remaining town would be the survivor of: me/rn/pc, and someone in the above group
all up to the survivor! town has a 50/50 chance of guessing right

something feels off in this math. it seems to imply that whether we call gera correctly or not, we have the same chance of winning. there's either an error here or in my earlier post

This is wrong since Kay would have been role blocked. Thus only having a scum in me or Titus from any scenario

i'm covering the worst scenario; which would include scum having a way around the roleblock

If thts the situation and it comes down to me and Kay I'm fine with losing because it would have been a masterclass.

[Hu Tao]

i swear it feels like you're jumping to conclusoins a lot today
we're really not even imagining that the scum could have a juggernaut or their own interruption role?

Maybe they do. But it's not changing anything at all. Gera is the Elim and we already have a plan. If you want to sus me over stating the obvious, so be it.

[Hu Tao]

there's really no way i don't aim at hutao tonight, particularly if we end now

Just do it then. If you want to play suboptimal I cannot stop you.

[Hu Tao]

Assuming Kay's role is legitimate, which I think it is. I'm curious how PC was chosen. Imagine we just got unlucky from a random draw and it wasn't an inno on someone else

your solve is gera and ari right? I think it's interesting how you phrase this post made me pause for a second.

Yes. Because if it was me, then I would be clear and you would still be clear from me.

[Hu Tao]

I'll still be skimming the thread.

Great. Let us know your thoughts and vote gera whenever you're done please

[Hu Tao]

think calling it a masterclass overrates the town's abilities exhibited this game
if we lose this eminently winnable game it's because we're bad

I just think Kay is townie and have so since day 1. I think I'd be shocked if she were scum. We are covered for everyone else regardless of scenario. You yourself said you Town read her. I'm not sure what abilities you mean

[Hu Tao]

there's really no way i don't aim at hutao tonight, particularly if we end now

Just do it then. If you want to play suboptimal I cannot stop you.

imo it's you playing suboptimally -- and dropping a lot of underbaked takes at a pivotal point in the game

I disagree. But we can agree to disagree. I'm not sure how voting the person everyone scumreads and wanting to vig the one slot that isn't covered for anything is suboptimal

[Hu Tao]

Psyche when you were scum last game. What did I do? I voted right after I had my read the last day. I just don't like stalling in general when I've already made up my mind

[Hu Tao]

intellectually lazy and rushing everything
trajectory is hardly any better than RN's D1

How is it lazy when I came up with the whole plan and let everyone agree to it?

[Hu Tao]

Okay. What's your plan

[Hu Tao]

Psyche when you were scum last game. What did I do? I voted right after I had my read the last day. I just don't like stalling in general when I've already made up my mind

if town had taken their time last game, i would have lost. my win con was the two masons locking in their decision

Town literally did that's the funny part.

[Hu Tao]

Thanks for helping scum. I'm sure they appreciate it.

[Hu Tao]

I said once I made my read and voted

[Hu Tao]

Clearly I didn't say we should all vote today without a plan

[Hu Tao]

Okay I will wait

[Hu Tao]

PC is a VT

Hu Tao changed her claim from VT to Night One Gunsmith with an inno on PC
Kay claimed she's a night two informed townie who is informed that PC is aligned with the town.

since there's two players confirming PC as town and only two mafia left PC is basically conf-town

Only way he can be scum is if he's scum doctor or traitor with Kay. But that's very doubtful imo

[Hu Tao]

Yep. Pretty much.

[Hu Tao]

I just don't see Kay as scum here tbh. So I think we just win.

[Hu Tao]

All of her reactions have been giving me new town vibes. Basically has been the opposite of new scum NaS this game

[Hu Tao]

Not just that but she's been towny in general

[Hu Tao]

Psyche. You had one job again. Literally.

[Hu Tao]

We made a plan and why not just stick to it. Now we have no idea if Titus actually blocked Kay.

[Hu Tao]

To be honest. I still wanna vote ari over Kay here. Because no killing was the optimal play if you were gonna shoot Titus.

[Hu Tao]

Right.

VOTE: Ari

[Hu Tao]

I'm okay with limming hu tao first too.

How are you town.

[Hu Tao]

I honestly have no idea at this point if it’s Hu or Ari. I feel like I should have a better idea of who it is but I’m second guessing myself when I think about everything that’s happened in the game. Because they’ve both done things that I thought “clearly that’s a town thing to do” but maybe the issue here is that…do I really know what is and isn’t town? I think my inexperience is actually just hurting us. I think I’ll just do whatever RN, PC and psyche think is best. If that’s dying, so be it, I still think that we can win if they figure out which one it is.

No. Vote Ari. It's clearly been Ari

[Hu Tao]

I'm okay with limming hu tao first too.

How are you town.

because you cleared me...

Unfortunately

[Hu Tao]

UNVOTE:

Wait. I need to think

[Hu Tao]

This is confirmed to be 10/3 right.

[Hu Tao]

Only way Kay can be scum is if PC is traitor and she is scum. But idk balance stuff

[Hu Tao]

Could it be Psyche?

I'm gonna need you to play the game

[Hu Tao]

i think its kay because I think kay/gera both trueclaimed their roles.

kay should be informed mafia and gera is a doctor, they probably didn't know that they shouldn't have claimed their actual roles because they do not fit into this setup.

Kay's role fits in this setup

[Hu Tao]

If we just vigged ari then Titus would have been in a 1vs1 with kay if somehow ari is town. But I just don't think ari is town here.

[Hu Tao]

Only way Kay can be scum is if PC is traitor and she is scum. But idk balance stuff

I don't see 3 Scum + Traitin a 13.

Not unless there was substantial Town power.

Yeah true.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Ari

Okay PC stop scumsiding. Why are you not considering Ari

[Hu Tao]

@Psyche THIS is why Ari should have been vigged

[Hu Tao]

Why would Kay town clear PC as scum instead of just claiming some other role?

[Hu Tao]

This game may actually give me a stroke. I'm incredulous right now laughing through the pain

[Hu Tao]

AND a fucking Neapolitan!

There is no neapolitan. PLEASE READ PAGE 1

[Hu Tao]

Look at the people who died.

[Hu Tao]

I am a n1 gunsmith. Which is why I said that n2 informed townie makes sense

[Hu Tao]

Vig and RB is swingy. RB could block me n1 and vigilante could kill Informed townie n1. And Vig could have been nk n1. It's not as much power as you think.

[Hu Tao]

I have to actively argue that no we must not launch Ari despite the idea being very satisfying.

It's either Kay or Hu. We already won.

Do you not remember the game we had where town had a jail keeper vigilante and cop?

[Hu Tao]

I think we just need to decide on either Kay or Hu today. Then launch the other.

VOTE: Kay

well let's wait for psyche he might have another shot and we can plan around this. plus titus said they would roleblock kay that's why no night kill I assume. how does hu ignore all that. plus they are hard defending kay for an epic i told you so tomorrow. we should just wait a little.

I've literally said since yesterday that Ari and Gera were the 2 scum.

[Hu Tao]

I think we just need to decide on either Kay or Hu today. Then launch the other.

VOTE: Kay

well let's wait for psyche he might have another shot and we can plan around this. plus titus said they would roleblock kay that's why no night kill I assume. how does hu ignore all that. plus they are hard defending kay for an epic i told you so tomorrow. we should just wait a little.

I've literally said since yesterday that Ari and Gera were the 2 scum.

How do you 1. reconcile the fact that titus roleblocked kay
and 2. that their was no nk when there are 3 clears.

Because it sets up me and Kay being eliminated as you're planning to do now

[Hu Tao]

And that wins the game for ari

[Hu Tao]

I think we just need to decide on either Kay or Hu today. Then launch the other.

VOTE: Kay

well let's wait for psyche he might have another shot and we can plan around this. plus titus said they would roleblock kay that's why no night kill I assume. how does hu ignore all that. plus they are hard defending kay for an epic i told you so tomorrow. we should just wait a little.

I've literally said since yesterday that Ari and Gera were the 2 scum.

How do you 1. reconcile the fact that titus roleblocked kay
and 2. that their was no nk when there are 3 clears.

Because it sets up me and Kay being eliminated as you're planning to do now

That doesn't make any sense.

[Hu Tao]

I just didn’t want to give all the info away before everyone else claimed because if there was a chance you and PC actually double claimed, I would’ve been able to my shining moment of this game

I don't ever see scum posting this

[Hu Tao]

i think its kay because I think kay/gera both trueclaimed their roles.

kay should be informed mafia and gera is a doctor, they probably didn't know that they shouldn't have claimed their actual roles because they do not fit into this setup.

How does my role make sense if I wasn’t town? I literally got told that one person was aligned with the town. Doesn’t mafia all already know each other so everyone else would be known to them as the town? Am I missing something here?

Also this wasn't addressed

[Hu Tao]

i think its kay because I think kay/gera both trueclaimed their roles.

kay should be informed mafia and gera is a doctor, they probably didn't know that they shouldn't have claimed their actual roles because they do not fit into this setup.

how does kays role make sense if shes mafia?

because shes lying duh

[Hu Tao]

What would scum be informed of? And if they were informed why did they kill nothing but VTs

[Hu Tao]

I'm really surprised it's not obv at this point that Ari is town

Okay then. This game is lost.

[Hu Tao]

Kay if you're actually scum here you did amazing and fooled the hell out of me. So play more games in the future. I just don't think you're scum here.

[Hu Tao]

I feel like there are reasons to think it’s either. Is Ari pushing me so hard because she’s town and just really believes it’s me, or is she scum and will do the same thing the next day to Hu?

Alternatively, is Hu town reading me so hard because she’s town and really believes me, or is she scum trying to make sure I stay on her side?

I’m leaning Ari because between these two scenarios, Ari has stated it had to be either me or Hu over and over whereas Hu is being very firm that it’s Ari, which would leave her open to being voted out tomorrow if she already knew Ari would flip town. Why not keep some sus on me when she knows I need to be voted out too? It doesn’t make as much sense to me because what will me being in her side do for her when I’m just one vote?

That’s where I’m at currently.

just ask hu tao if ari flips town who the last scum would be.

This literally doesn't change her read

[Hu Tao]

It should be obvious I am gunsmith. I softed it day 1. And I softed my result multiple times day 2

[Hu Tao]

If there is a Vigilante this game, I'd suggest vigging NotAScum. They seem like new scum.

the page provides an entire system for classifying self-votes and explains in detail how each type of self vote could come from scum

or

from town.

then the only sentence from which it can be gleaned that anyone thinks self-voting is a scumtell is:
"While this practice is commonly seen as scum-indicative, no data has been compiled on the actual effectiveness of self-voting as a towntell or a scumtell."
this is arguably the most disapproving way that a writer could conceivably share that information without openly abandoning wikipedia's editorial guidelines

but someone clinging to the mafia wiki for dear life took the exact opposite message home?
it does not pass the smell test

also it's not the pulling out the wiki that's scummy
it's the fiction that the slot decided to vote hu tao based on the content of that wiki

VOTE: notascum

i think this is it, the easy D1 slam dunk that even this town deserves
i will try really hard not to be too obnoxious about how shitty every other wagon is by comparison

While I do think they could be scum, I want to hear their response. That's why I think a vig there is better if there is one

I still think Naerys today. If there is a vigilante, they should shoot NotAScum

This is all day 1

[Hu Tao]

If I was scum and wanted both my partners gone by d3 I think I'd be in almost certain auto loss

[Hu Tao]

Especially knowing there was a vigilante and a role blocker who claimed d2.

[Hu Tao]

I just don't get why as scum I would force everyone to not vote PC and vote NAS day 2. And try to get gera vigged n2 and when he didn't just try to hurry up his Elim. Also as scum why would I wait until after seeing every claim and claim gunsmith after? It just doesn't make sense from scum point of view to do this.

[Hu Tao]

If you have a shot then it's auto win and I don't get why we are stalling here

[Hu Tao]

no i guess scum could have an ability that blocks it even if it's not aimed at them

Um.. yes... it's called mafia doctor. The one that's dead now.

[Hu Tao]

If you seriously have a vigilante shot it's literally auto win. Why are we stalling here

[Hu Tao]

We can eliminate Kay, vig Ari and if game is still going we vote me. It's pretty clear. Only reason we Elim Kay in this scenario on the 1% chance she's scum with Traitor PC

[Hu Tao]

you can't imagine any other ability but mafia doctor that would disrupt a vig shot..?

Highly doubt scum has a role blocker here based on my role.

[Hu Tao]

It makes no sense for scum to have a mafia doctor and a role blocker for only big.

[Hu Tao]

Vig*

[Hu Tao]

Also mafia doctor implies there a gunsmith in this game. Which is also for my role to give me a potential fake clear.

[Hu Tao]

That's why I think all our role make sense together

[Hu Tao]

Oscar worthy performance by me if I did all that just to set up a terrible situation for myself

[Hu Tao]

There is no reason for me to repeatedly stop Dann from trying to eliminate PC day 2. Especially when a few people wanted to eliminate PC

[Hu Tao]

I'm flattered. But there is a difference between doing good scum play to set your team up to win and doing things that would be terrible as scum to do to put yourself in a terrible situation

[Hu Tao]

Can you just tell me if you actually have a shot or not. Because it's literally auto win if you do. Scum shot Dann because they thought he was vigilante because of Titus' claim. So they were worried about the vigilante more than the role blocker even with a mafia doctor.

[Hu Tao]

Sad

[Hu Tao]

okkkkk
one last question
how can you possibly scumread ari at this point

She's been my scumread since like day 2. Possibly day 1. And Kay has given me so many town pings it's hard to ignore. It's like the Gypyx game where I kept telling the masons that "scum wouldn't say this" I'm seeing those posts from Kay. Kay was only a bit shaky day 2 but I think overall she's been townie. Ari I think was overreacting day 2, we were not in a bad situation at all. And I think she hasn't been townie imo

[Hu Tao]

Doctor Drew - Unsure. I want to lean towny
Naerys - scummy
Hu Tao - hu taown
Random Nurse - Town
NotAScum - scum
Aristeia - unsure, leaning scummy.
geraintm - gera still
Political Clout - leaning sus
Klick - towny
KayJayQueue - town
Dannflor - unsure. Bad vote, might be scummy ( but he's good as scum so idk if he makes that vote as scum. But it might be a distraction vote so I think I'd still lean scum)
davesaz - probably town
Psyche - towny

This is where I am leaning at the moment

I would not be surprised if all 3 scum were in: Naerys, NotAScum, Ari, Gera, PC, Dann. (Maybe Drew too but I need more time on him. I keep flipping on his alignment)

Yeah these were my day 1 reads. I had Ari scummy.

[Hu Tao]

all that handwringing about gera maybe being town and kay stealing the game was fake?
and the aggression re: feeling bullied into voting Naeyrs, and also afterward for being blamed for it?

Yes

[Hu Tao]

think i've changed to at least null on dave
if i were to follow the path of least resistance i would say that the scum are

NotAScum
Aristeia
geraintm

but honestly reality usually has a rule of cool element to it that makes me prefer to doubt this list
who am i most likely to be wrong about? does it even matter if getting even my top scumread limmed feels impossible? one thing titus's style has going for it is that it excludes the need for such considerations

it cant be
noo

We could have had it all

[Hu Tao]

What gave it away?

you jumping off naerys to vote PC even though you thought she was lockscum
you not really re-evaluating after naerys elim
your "scumread" of PC that just mysteriously vanished for no reason
you buddying Random Nurse because he has the awareness level of head of cabbage
you showing absolutely no fustration with RN whatsoever despite him just being completely delusional
you not voting me even though you're posturing you think I'm mafia
you defending titus/drew on lol grounds and never re-evaluating the slot after they had the shadiest wagon hop on ever into Naerys
you never re-evaluating the Naerys read even though she did like thirteen different contortions
you cared too much on the initial push on d1

this thing came from scum?

Yes because she made contradictions. Like this right after.

My drew/Titus read is pretty good. I don't think I've been wrong on either of them before. Remember that cop game I played with you and Titus I set the bait for her and she took the bait and I called her scum correctly.

i obviously dont care about your titus read when i dont even think you're town

That was literally one of your reads for scum reading me

[Hu Tao]

Yes

[Hu Tao]

Also all the PR claims weren't true cause we eliminated Gera which was a PR claim

[Hu Tao]

how is it a contradiction to not care about the reads of someone i scumread.

do you care about the reads of someone who you think is mafia?

eyeroll

Yes. Because I cam be wrong. I only don't care if I'm scum. I asked your opinions all day 1 even though I scumread you.

[Hu Tao]

Can*

[Hu Tao]

looks like kay is the consensus townread. so we are probably safe as long as that read is correct.
if PC/RN can commit to playing along those lines and agree, then we can just decide to let the victory go to kay, whatever her alliance is.

the safe play is to kill kay here. since they were roleblocked and no kill came through. the question isn't wether kay is town read the question is do you believe hu tao's case on town kay or are you town reading kay because of other reasons and for sure believe kay is town. if you do I would like to hear it.

You do make sense. But if it's ari you all do not town read me over ari so yeah.

[Hu Tao]

Game is solved if Hutao can stay alive? Hutao, you're never getting limmed this game, right?

RN does not Town read me. So it depends PC too

[Hu Tao]

I do wish people would listen to me like just once this game

that would be nice

well kay dies tomorrow if you're town. good enough for you?

I dunno can I trust you to actually follow through

I trust psyche to follow through. I do not trust RN to. I've seen that man scum read me when I was pretty much conf town by his own result.

[Hu Tao]

Kay where did you go?

[Hu Tao]

we should believe titus roleblocked kay and lim kay and then ari. it's the safer play.

If we can get RN to agree to this I will do it. But I'm unsure.

[Hu Tao]

The reason I also think Kay is town is basically we only have a 1 shot investigation. Especially when scum can freely kill the conf town n3 on. But who knows anymore

[Hu Tao]

If I were to get role blocked or vigged n1 or my result was (or I checked the scum doctor) then my result is useless.

[Hu Tao]

another credit to your claim though is that you were definitely teed up to claim you had gunsmithed gera there...
wouldn't have even been in danger if he then flipped by accident

Yeah. I was kind of figuring there could be a mafia doctor. I wanted to check someone I could see living for awhile so that's why I went PC. I hoped gera was vigged after NAS

[Hu Tao]

Kay where did you go?

I was up all night last night because my sleep schedule is off since coming home from work and I had to take a family member to the airport 4 hours ago. I just needed to get a couple hours sleep in. I wake up to like 4 more pages lol I’m here now and I got my sleep.

gotcha anything else?

What do you mean?

If you're town you need to give reasons as to why you're town. I can't be the one defending you which is basically what's happening here. I think you're town, but you need to show the others you are too

[Hu Tao]

i sort of expected an ari self-vote in the last page, though with less back-and-forth.
but in the end it's kind of consistent with the "this sucks! this sucks!" --> "i wash my hands" patterns of other days.
each of these have been quite believable imo. but next to kay, im forced to doubt my own eyes.

i never self voted on any other day pls dont lie

VOTE: Ari

Oof

[Hu Tao]

Question. Is mafia doctor unable to do night kills? Is that why they have no gun?

[Hu Tao]

Question. Is mafia doctor unable to do night kills? Is that why they have no gun?

mafia doctors are able to make nightkills

Of course YOU would know that since you're mafia. (Just kidding thanks )

[Hu Tao]

tldr i thought psyche was crumbing a result on NAS because he was so harsh to me so I thought hey maybe i should just shut up and sheep him

turns out he just didnt care about my opinion on the matter

Did he not state he didn't have a guilty on NAS

[Hu Tao]

Yes. I didn't need to claim it right away because I didn't want scum to know that I was PR to give them the false sense of security to claim a PR and I figured I'd be able to back up my pr softs pretty easily

[Hu Tao]

if hutao is scum she definitely was planning the gist of her fakeclaim kind of early. ive gotta remember to do that next time im scum

If I was scum I'd have to bank on the fact that town didn't have a gunsmith. Which was likely with mafia doctor and vig.

[Hu Tao]

Yes. I didn't need to claim it right away because I didn't want scum to know that I was PR to give them the false sense of security to claim a PR and I figured I'd be able to back up my pr softs pretty easily

yet when kay claims a PR you just claim yours fits in with hers

Yeah because once she said n2 I believed it since mine was n1. I actually assumed that there would be a n2 something. I thought it was vigilante at first since there was no vigilante kill n1

[Hu Tao]

doesn't kjq seem a bit too informed or is that just me? like they were townreading dave when almost no one else was.

To be fair I was also townreading dave

[Hu Tao]

if hutao is scum she definitely was planning the gist of her fakeclaim kind of early. ive gotta remember to do that next time im scum

If I was scum I'd have to bank on the fact that town didn't have a gunsmith. Which was likely with mafia doctor and vig.

just seems wild to me that stuff like this can be asserted so confidently
either setup spec is a game breaking strategy or astrology

I mean. There was a vigilante and mafia doctor and also a role with n2 in it. So it's worked so far

[Hu Tao]

I think that's the mods color BTW. So might wanna switch colors

[Hu Tao]

Yeah I think ari should be the vote still. If for whatever reason ari is town then I trust PC to not vote me tomorrow

[Hu Tao]

I'd rather vote kay today if they flip green and clear then it's hu tao. we don't objectively gain anything if we flip aristeia.

Wtf. Wasn't I just town?

[Hu Tao]

Let's just vote Ari and if there is a tomorrow we vote Kay. I don't trust RN or maybe PC to vote Ari tomorrow

[Hu Tao]

See PC can't even make up his mind in like 5 posts. He will not vote ari tomorrow. Vote Ari today

[Hu Tao]

Let's just vote Ari and if there is a tomorrow we vote Kay. I don't trust RN or maybe PC to vote Ari tomorrow

Hu, I stg if you’re playing me I’ll never trust myself again lol

Well you've been locking me as town till today. Why?

[Hu Tao]

Let's just vote Ari and if there is a tomorrow we vote Kay. I don't trust RN or maybe PC to vote Ari tomorrow

Hu, I stg if you’re playing me I’ll never trust myself again lol

Well you've been locking me as town till today. Why?

I can’t fathom a day 1 from you where you aren’t town. But what I can fathom and what is possible might not be the same lol I really, really don’t understand why as scum, you’d also basically be very much on my side here. So I really want to believe we are right and the solve is Ari. All I’m saying is that if that’s the vote and the game doesn’t end, my head will truly explode.

Then why not vote ari?

[Hu Tao]

Starting ti feel thus is Scum Tao.

Scum Tao desperately tries to get players to vote others, just like in the Bird Species game.

See. This is why we have to eliminate Ari today.

[Hu Tao]

RN has read like 5% of the game and is pushing on me for feels. And he does this every game when I'm town. So yeah. This is a loss the moment RN was the clear.

[Hu Tao]

Look at Hu Tao go, desperate to get an Aristeia mis-yeet.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Please stop joining games if you're not going to read the game. I like playing with you but not when you do stuff like this.

[Hu Tao]

RN has read like 5% of the game and is pushing on me for feels. And he does this every game when I'm town. So yeah. This is a loss the moment RN was the clear.

You were literally Scum in most of the last games I've played.

You are very good as Scum and that is why I have trust issues with you.

Okay. But that's not a reason to vote me. There are multiple reasons why I'm town here. But you want to vote me because you think I'm good as scum.

[Hu Tao]

this is hilarious. we

have

to win today. today we lim the scum. it's early lylo

Now you see what I mean

[Hu Tao]

Even if I want to try and see why Kay could be scum I can't because if I'm wrong it's an auto loss because of RN. So we need to vote ari out today

[Hu Tao]

If you think ari

must

be town, then vote accordingly. that's all im asking. you might be wrong but at least you'll make sense

You realize if we vote Kay, she flips town then we lose right?

[Hu Tao]

even if you're dead tomorrow. i'll lock it in

STOP

[Hu Tao]

If Kay flips Town and somehow I'm still alive I'll be voting Hu Tao.

I'll be voting ari.

And then day ends in a no vote. And we lose because ari kills you

[Hu Tao]

Why is Ari town?

[Hu Tao]

i don't understand. hutao do you think a setup where you and kay are both town PRs is possible?

I've said yes to this already

[Hu Tao]

So no complex mini has had 5 pr? And if I find one, we can change your minds?

[Hu Tao]

viewtopic.php?t=92020

This game had 4 pr and scum had a 1 shot pr and 2 goons. This game mafia already had 2 stronger scum roles. Why is it crazy for us to have 5 pr?

[Hu Tao]

viewtopic.php?t=91775

This game had 5 town pr!

[Hu Tao]

And scum is stronger so far than that game

[Hu Tao]

its up to you to hammer hutao i want you to embrace the future head on or until i have the opportunity to quote one of your stop stalling posts

There is no future head on RN will vote me

[Hu Tao]

viewtopic.php?t=91775

This game had 5 town pr!

town prs are:

mason
informed miller neighbor
informed joat neighbor
mason
mailman

so that's two clears and only three +EV roles

I don't think miller or mailman really give +town advantage depending on what the information the miller has

My 1 shot is very swingy as already stated and could give us false clear or false guilty

[Hu Tao]

What are the odds that Kay scum clears PC though? Instead of just claiming something like VT?

[Hu Tao]

hutao we can at least admit that this amount of power is

rare

, right?

Maybe but it's a complex and we don't know scums last role

[Hu Tao]

aw cmon ari just acknowledged an inconvenient possibility which would imply she's scum that has to be town

you never hammered tho on a weird make hu tao hammer power trip for some odd reason. now I wanna hear hu tao.

I'm literally never voting Kay today. Because if she's town we lose because of what RN has said. So regardless I need to have ari eliminated.

[Hu Tao]

Way I see it. Me and Kay's role combined make a 2 shot gunsmith. Stronger or weaker I'm unsure

[Hu Tao]

it's really uncomfortable thinking that if kay flips town then hutao gets to hold that over everyone forever. whether she's scum or town. it's her glory all alone. so painful

Tbh usually I wouldn't try this hard but I do feel bad for Naerys since I kinda forced her out day 1 so I feel the need to win this for her. As lame as that sounds.

[Hu Tao]

like if hu tao is some kind of mafia role that cant pierce RN's bulletproof I can see why she would be mad about this because she can't kill RN so either she kills the other cleared townies and eventually RN votes for Hu Tao and yeets her or she shoots me and like thats just surrendering

Ari setting up for tomorrow

[Hu Tao]

so sad. so tragic. we remain at an impasse. unless you're okay continuing the 1v1 tomorrow?

It's not a 1vs1 if RN is voting me regardless of what happens

[Hu Tao]

i still dont like how hu tao claimed gunsmith after saying she wanted to self-yeet on d1

i am not sure I believe a gunsmith would ever say that

town tend to have a really high expectation of their own utility when they get dealt a power role

Setting up everything

[Hu Tao]

You know what's funny. When Kay flips town and it's n2 townie. Do you really think there is not a n1 town role?

[Hu Tao]

Well if Kay isn't scum gg

[Hu Tao]

Tbh Kay. I feel like I defended you more than I defended myself

[Hu Tao]

Tbh Kay. I feel like I defended you more than I defended myself

Honestly you did and that’s why I’m happy to die in your pocket

Stop making posts like this they are too towny

[Hu Tao]

I'm back

We've decided to vote ari. Just waiting on you to vote

[Hu Tao]

Moment of truth

[Hu Tao]

Kay were you scum or no

[Hu Tao]

Did I hard defend mafia

[Hu Tao]

Can I ask why you cleared PC day 3? Did you know I had an innocent on PC?

[Hu Tao]

Can I ask why you cleared PC day 3? Did you know I had an innocent on PC?

genius move tbh

Yeah. It's the reason I was so sure she was town cause of that claim.

[Hu Tao]

Watch Kay be an alt account pretending to be new

[Hu Tao]

Can I ask why you cleared PC day 3? Did you know I had an innocent on PC?

I had no clue. Gera fucked up my plan and I had to pivot. I’m just going to say this now, I am going to be eternally annoyed about how gera and NAS played. They made this game impossible and they didn’t communicate at all. I was alone pretty much the entire game and it was horrible lol

Yeah. I was going to say, you didn't get help from them it seemed.

[Hu Tao]

Well. At least I helped NAS and Gera elims.

[Hu Tao]

[Hu Tao]

Sorry Ari for not believing you

[Hu Tao]

Everyone was saying oh the scum team is coaching, feeding info - I fucking wish

how annoyed were you with all the questions I asked?

I wasn’t annoyed. I literally just told myself I was town. I was in denial that my first game ever was as mafia so I refused to believe it until I couldn’t ignore it anymore lol

This is so funny omg

[Hu Tao]

Just wait until you see the PT which is basically just me talking to myself for 2 weeks. I’m surprised Datisi didn’t have me committed for psychosis.

I believe it

[Hu Tao]

What was your actual role?

[Hu Tao]

This is where I say I'm not really a gunsmith

[Hu Tao]

I'm joking

[Hu Tao]

Thank God I didn't get roasted by the mod for my day 1

[Hu Tao]

Gg to Kay you were amazing. I rarely get fooled THAT badly by scum. I hope to play with you more

[Hu Tao]

Also sorry again Naerys

[Hu Tao]

The dead thread was a funny read