726 - Mind Screw Gaiden, Game Over

[Tarhalindur]

Screw it, I'll have to take what I expect is a Rules Infraction for posting during Confirmation Stage.

I take it I'm the only person with rolebased that says that Natirasha-lynch is a very bad idea? Unvote him. NOW.

[Tarhalindur]

I have three pieces of, to use the term from my own games, inside information. One of these is that flesh/metal seems to be a mechanic. The second I shall keep to myself for the time being - know that I will likely be asking for an origin claim when Day 1 begins. The third is that the Mod has implicitly threatened unspecified bad things - at least to me and quite possibly to other players - if the Mod is lynched.

(He didn't say anything about vigging, though...)

[Tarhalindur]

/confirm

As far as I can tell, though, my confirmation method is PM.

[Tarhalindur]

Confirming in-thread, now that I can.

It's almost five o'clock EST. It's Miller Time.

Vote: Vi

Vi's a Serial Killer.

...or at least, that's what Natirasha and a passive part of my role would have you believe.

Unvote: Vi

I received a piece of info in my Role PM, but I don't think it would be good to divulge it right now.

-----

Serum and Steel's metal/flesh mechanic went something like this--

Metal players cannot be killed by lynches, night-kills, vigs, or anything else (unless that "anything else" ignores this sentence altogether... um, anyway). Metal players can undergo some process (voted by a majority to be mycosynthed, in that game) to become flesh and thus confirmably vulnerable. Attempting to lynch a metal player would result in No Lynch.

Of course, the mod could be pulling a red-herring on me... hope not, that would make me a sad panda.

-----

Natirasha loses several untold thousands of originality points for the mod posts so far.

-----

He's even stealing my "mod hint in vote count" tendencies.

(Also, silly Nat, that unrevealed rule could be dealt with by PM to dead players and MeMe instead of revealing the role. )

I'm curious, since nobody's votes are going through.

Vote: MafiaSSK

for purposes of experimentation.

Actually, I'm just a worse mod a doing vote counts than Tar. And that's saying something.

Worse vote counts than ME? I'm sorry, I can't believe you there on the grounds that it is not possible to have worse vote counts than me.

... Okay, maybe it is, see Norinel's title for starters...

[Tarhalindur]

Oh, right, random vote time. Testing on the off chance that Natirasha is pulling anything vote-related out of my usual bag of tricks:

Vote: forbiddanlight
FoS: Vi
FoS: Stef
HoS: Kairyuu

[Tarhalindur]

Side note to Kinetic since he's actually in this game...

You're not the only player in this game that dearly loves to and is rather good at breaking setups in half given enough information. (See Mafia 75, among others.)

Also, you won Freaktown 4 because you had the ability we couldn't foresee (we thought we had, at bare minimum, equal votes to the town, which would have won us the game if not for our votes being irrelevant) and were able to convince us you were UNK.

[Tarhalindur]

BINGO! He's pulling the same thing I did in Mind Screw II (at bare minimum...): One FoS per player. UnFoSing is almost certainly required to move FoS'es.

That leaves open at least three abilities that I've used in the past: Vote/FoS inversion (where FoS'es count as votes and votes count as FoS'es, therefore lynches are determined by FoSes once the ability is activated; used as a Dreams of Reality action in Mind Screw II and possibly 3); FoS-vote (a player's FoS counts as a vote, usually associated with the role name Kaname Chidori in my games); and Inversion (a player who is lynched when he receives a majority of FoS'es instead of votes... see, well, Natirasha's role in Mind Screw II).

In other news, there is no evidence of the Ozmodiar mechanic from Mind Screw 1.

Also of note: 12 players in game, no mysterious deaths, so it's doubtful we have hidden players due to the definition of a Mini game. (If someone has reason to dispute this, now's the time to speak up. Assuming you can, that is.)

Now, further testing to confirm hypotheses:

Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage

(this should work)

UnFoS, FoS: fluffy bunnies

(so should this)

[Tarhalindur]

In other news, there is no evidence of the Ozmodiar mechanic from Mind Screw 1.

With all due respect,

thank Mod for that.

It's plenty annoying enough as a Mod. You should see what it does to my vote count accuracy. (Which is bad enough even during the best of times, let alone with other odd vote mechanics...)

Wait a minute... if Nat's drawing too much inspiration from me, we might want to be careful with votes. They might be, how shall we say, *sticky* at some point.

[Tarhalindur]

Tick Tock. Tick Tock. The mouse went up the clock.

Oh FRAK, that's Hickory Dickory Dock. Either Nat's trying to mind fuck me specifically or we're on a short deadline; that ability name has ALWAYS been associated with a fixed deadline in my Mind Screw games, usually of a short duration.

More annoyingly, no-one has slipped up yet. Random bandwagon ahoy!

Unvote, Vote: veerus

(Wait a minute... where did veerus's vote for forbiddanlight go?)

Mod: Are the second and third vote counts correct? (Specifically, is veerus's vote for forbiddanlight supposed to not show up?)

No, I just fail.

[Tarhalindur]

Interestingly, Kairyuu's claimed role-based information sounds much like my own (I asked for origin-claim because I doubt there are more than two people with the origin in question).

I could also go for a name claim (high risk, high reward scenario).

[Tarhalindur]

Problem of the hour #1:

I see. So Tar, your information is similar to mine? I suspect you may be who I am lookin for. I will origin claim if you do, but I would request that you go first.

@Kinetic: I don't like that idea too much. I would prefer a straight origin massclaim. I will, of course, stop it once I have the information that I need.

I propose Tar to start, because I think we may not need any more than his claim.

Also, I will be V/LA for a bit. Ill still be around, but not all that much.

Something is rotten in the house of Denmark...

The possible scenarios here:

1) Kairyuu was given information about a different player than I was
2) Kairyuu and I were given information about the same player (or Mod...)
3) Kairyuu is searching for me and I am searching for someone else (doubt it, this scenario seems fishy)
4) I was given information about Kairyuu (read: Kairyuu is MOD-CONFIRMED non-town), Kairyuu was given information about someone else.
5) Kairyuu is looking for me,I am looking for Kairyuu, Kairyuu is MOD-CONFIRMED non-town (from Half-Life) and looking for me for reasons uncertain.
6) Nat has crossed a line as Moderator even I try not to cross without warning (i.e, my role-based information is lying or I'm somehow not town when that's the alignment I was told at game start)

Side note: Something's fishy here. Does anybody with a better knowledge of Half-Life than I have know what exactly results from a certain "resonance cascade" in Half-Life 2? It might be relevant here.

Problem of the hour #2:

I suppose I wouldn't be entirely against a name claim, though I doubt it'll accomplish anything. Any name could be either town or scum

(plus there are safeclaims)

and the few roles that have name information likely don't have enough information or it is misleading/incomplete to break the set up.

Wait, how exactly do you know that there are safeclaims? That looks like one hell of a slip to me...

[Tarhalindur]

I have little time, so I'll make this brief.

First, I'm pretty sure that hp [leaves] just claimed scum, so...

Vote: hp [leaves]

Second, my information is, likewise, that G-Man is in the game and not town. Given the fact that other players were informed this, there's a few obvious possibilities for what he's doing (Mafia Godfather, neutral, Moderator). My gut is telling me that G-Man might also be the game's equivalent of Chairman Mao...

Third, I should probably reveal this now, since in context it's effectively a Miller claim. I am a character from Half-Life myself - another character, one who is aligned with Mr. Crowbar... er, Gordon Freeman... in the games. Looking at the game timeline and my flavor, it's probably most accurate to say that I come from somewhere in the Half-Life 2 Episodes. I have at least two abilities (the "know G-Man is not town" ability and the "shouldn't noose the Mod" warning, to paraphrase); I may have more.

What's getting really interesting is that the flavor behind my, to paraphrase, "You really shouldn't put the Mod in the noose" information is ALSO from Half-Life. Specifically, it appears to be derived from the flavor surrounding the resonance cascade (which, after review, would be the alien-unleashing cataclysm in the first game), and is not too dissimilar to the flavor in one of the early vote counts (the one in where there were three votes on the Mod).

I'm not sure exactly what's so bad about lynching the Mod, if anything - I just know that I am explicitly warned not to do so.

Fourth, this will likely be my last post in this game for a bit. I will have absolutely no access until 01/07 at best (01/14 if worst comes to worst). I would prefer to remain in the game but will (grudgingly) understand if I must be replaced.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm still not 100%, so I can only offer some thoughts:

1) I'm getting increasingly skeptical of "didn't receive the mod note" as a strong indicator of being scum - it's really starting to remind me of my confirmation mechanic in Mind Screw 2, where confirmation method was largely independent of being town or scum. That doesn't necessarily mean it's completely useless - again, look at Mind Screw 2, where a higher percentage of players who confirmed by PM were scum - but I don't think it's a sure thing.

That said, the two players who originally did not appear to have the mod note but later claimed otherwise (hp [leaves], Illumina) ARE worth looking into, for the reason that has been previously mentioned (daytalking scum could have provided that information if a scum had that info), especially since I'd say there's a 90% chance that group scum have full daytalk.*

* - The game FAQ (and other information available to me) strongly indicates that this is a Twilight setup, like all of my games since Mind Screw 2 have been. I have NEVER run a Twilight setup without giving Mafia, at bare minimum, unrestricted daytalk. In fact, normal nighttalk simply IS NOT POSSIBLE in a Twilight setup, so I'd say Scum (and Masons and Cult, if applicable) having full daytalk is a pretty sure thing.

2) Veerus is back on my scumdar again - note the short posts, possible safeclaim slip*, relative lack of independent commentary (despite this being a point he raised against hp [leaves]), and his follow-the-leader reasoning for being on and pushing the hp [leaves] wagon.

* - There are two points to make in response to your earlier "how is my post a slip?" comment.

Point 1: Mind Screw II had 1 safeclaim for the Mafia, and that was tied to an ability or three. None of my games since then (with the possible exception of an ongoing) have included a safeclaim for the Mafia - I've instead tried to make their role names unguessable using flavor alone.

That said, there are two good arguments for there being at least some safeclaims in the game: I almost always give anti-town neutrals safeclaims (since they have less information than a Mafia group), and I give any non-town player with a blatantly non-town role name a safeclaim (see Jha'Dur/Soul Hunter in B5, Ganondorf in LoZ:OoT). That's good reason to strongly suspect that there are safeclaims in the game. But that brings us to point 2: You didn't say that you were pretty sure that there were safeclaims in the game, you said "plus there are safeclaims". To me, that's information that you could only know for certain if you or a player you can talk to was provided with a safeclaim... and if that is the case, you are almost certainly not town (not 100% - I've considered safeclaims on town in the past for meta-breaking reasons).

3) Illumina's last series of posts looks REALLY scummy from where I'm sitting. His 103 is pinging my IIoA-dar (given the nature of the questions, he's either playing Glork-style or using questions to avoid giving his own thoughts - can't tell which, Glork's early style usually looks scummy to me), and the FoS for Kairyuu isn't helping. 113 doesn't help his cause at all: calling attention to a mod note + summary + apparent contradiction previously noted by Kairyuu is again pinging the IIoA meter, and 116 is explanation. I'm not seeing scumhunting there, and something about the tone REALLY feels off on a gut level (not sure WHY, mind you... )

3) Something about the hp [leaves] wagon feels off to me, for reasons I am not yet sure of. I'd rather follow it up later, after he's posted a bit more.

For now, let's move my vote where it should have been several days ago.

Unvote, Vote: veerus

Side note: My information on G-Man says, to paraphrase, non-town (not necessarily anti-town, but I'd still probably lynch him if I knew where he was).

[Tarhalindur]

Kairyuu: Trust me, I could refute your points for another couple pages -- but when it comes down to it, we're butting heads on a single issue, and inundating the thread with our debate probably isn't going to be helpful. Our points have pretty much been laid out, you're not asking any new questions. I see where you're coming from, though: so I'll restate what I've already said. [insert my earlier argument here]

Okay, let's take a close look at this. First, Illumina is trying to shut down Kairyuu's questioning, which is technically evasion. This is, of course, a scumtell, but I'm trying some new techniques this game (causation analysis), so let's delve into the possibilities of WHY Illumina is trying to shut down debate.

Is there a potential pro-town rationale for avoiding debate in addition to the obvious scum one? Yes - a town player may feel that they have answered all questions posed to them to the best of their ability.

Does Illumina appear to be shutting down debate for that reason? Yes on the surface, not if you read between the lines. There are two reasons that Illumina is explicitly using to request avoiding debate with Kairyuu: "it won't be helpful" and "you have no new arguments" (implying that he(?) thinks that he has satisfactorily answered Kairyuu's questions). Let's take a closer look here:

"It won't be helpful" - This argument looks scummy to me, for two reasons. One, it's a wrong conclusion using generally accepted Mafia theory - general thought is that discussion helps the town by forcing scum to commit to positions. Second, the mindset I'm reading from this is "go away, I don't want to have to commit the time to rebut your arguments", which is NOT a pro-town mindset - rather, it's a mindset I would expect more in scum trying to fly under the radar.

"You have no new arguments" - This is pricking my scumdar on three levels. First, the very fact that Illumina chose to use "you have no new arguments" rather than "I feel I have answered your arguments" suggests a level of contempt for Kairyuu's case, which in the method I'm trying out is a scum mindset. Second, I don't see any frustration in Illumina's post when I would expect a town player who feels that they have answered all points against them to be very frustrated when those points keep getting brought up. That suggests that

Illumina's indication that she has answered all of Kairyuu's arguments is insincere

, which, if true, negates the possibility of Illumina's defense being justified by a town mindset. Third, note the placement of the "I see where you're coming from, though: so I'll restate what I've already said." at the end of the sentence. I'm reading that as a naked attempt to try to avoid a fight (and therefore scrutiny) - and THAT is NOT a town mindset [/quote]

Vi: You're just prejudiced because I won =P. Honestly, though, your points are reasonable, especially since my debate with Kairyuu has stalled.

Null tell - I could see town or scum admitting that another player has good points on them if they thought that was the best form of defense.

So here's my take on things so far.

I find it plausible that Veerus assumed the presence of safeclaims. It could have been a slip on his part, sure, but I had a safeclaim in my last game run by Nat, and it seems like Veerus had similar experience in past Mind Screw games. I can see why people caught on to it, because it seems like a good tell -- but I'm assuming the presence of safeclaims too, until proven otherwise. So it's noteworthy, but a fairly neutral tell in my book.

Again, doesn't look town to me. Note the sheer number of weasely words and phrases in this post - "It could have been a slip on his part, sure"; "I can see why people caught on to it"; "So it's noteworthy, but a fairly neutral tell in my book", etc. That doesn't read like genuine town indecision (especially since, in my experience, town leans toward one side of the issue when they aren't sure) - I'm seeing the mindset of scum trying to avoid taking a position (which they can be attacked for if said position is unpopular) and leaving themself an option to take whichever side of the argument becomes more popular later.

Note: This *could* also indicate a mindset of trying to keep a partner away from pressure subtly, so as not to get called on it if/when he comes up scum...

hp[leaves] is an interesting situation. It's not totally unreasonable that the note was randomly distributed, but it's interesting that no one (presumably town-aligned) has admitted to also not having it from the start. I also tend to doubt that he suddenly thought to check it, although I'm not discounting that as a possibility.

Again, note the sheer weaseliness and refusal to take sides on hp [leaves] - "not totally unreasonable", "interesting", "tend to doubt", "not discounting that as a possibility". There's two clear mindsets I'm seeing here": not wanting to be pinned down to a positions, and not wanting to pick a fight. Wait, no, there's a third: not wanting to scumhunt. I DO NOT see town taking this kind of position.

My initial impression of the debate between tajo and Vi seems like two townies fighting, but I'll be taking a closer look at that.

AGAIN, playing both sides. AGAIN, the probable mindsets are "avoid being pinned down" and "avoid fights".

I'm also unsatisfied with MSSK's reasoning. Specifically, his take on hp, the scuffle between Kairyuu and I, and the argument between populartajo and Vi. MSSK: pick two of those and tell me what you think, with at least four sentences for each.

This doesn't feel like genuine interest in MafiaSSK's actions - it could be, but I don't think so. Note the use of the word "unsatisfied" and the lack of specificity about WHICH PARTS of MSSK's reasoning don't satisfy him.

The mindset I'm seeing here is, instead, is a combination of asking questions to simulate scumhunting (implying a desire not to get caught not scumhunting) and trying to draw attention to MafiaSSK in the hopes that he will be lynched (not quite as sure about the latter). Neither of those comes from a pro-town mindset.

But then, given this post I don't think that Illumina is playing from a pro-town standpoint.

Unvote, Vote: Illumina
UnFoS, FoS: Illumina

[Tarhalindur]

Alright, alright, I'm going to clear this up now.

I am a player in this game. It should have been obvious from the beginning. That

doesn't

, however, mean that I cannot be a townie. Did you guys actually think that I wouldn't put a red herring in the FaQ. You guys are focusing on the wrong part...

PS: You might want to plan for tomorrow if you insist in killing me, who knows if tomorrow can even exist without the mod...

Sorry, wrong answer, Nat - I seem to recall explicitly explaining why a player-Mod must by necessity be self-aligned. You're not town, and we're getting rid of you at some point.

---

The problem is, I was explicitly told as an ability that I shouldn't lynch the Mod (what flavor there is for this is drawn directly from Half-Life), with the strong implication that something bad happens if we ignore this. This *COULD* be a red herring or a meaningless threat (if he's piggybacking off of previous Mind Screw games' "lynch the Mod" meta, this must be the case). It could also be something very, very bad (supersupersaint, another player as mod lyncher, and mod jester come to mind given how I've run these things in the past - alternately, our dear self-aligned Mod could be metal and thus unlynchable).

There is another option I am considering, which requires me to reveal a little bit more about my role. One of my active abilities is a roleblock with additional benefits if I target a metal player (which Natirasha may be, given my role's flavor). If Nat is using my own ability system, this ability can't be roleblocked (roleblocks are almost completely unroleblockable in my games).

I have already used this ability today targeting Natirasha. There are three ways he could get around this: unroleblockable, untargetable, or what I refer to as a rapid action. I don't think we're dealing with the third (I haven't seen any evidence of a rapid action), and I doubt the first two given how I designed previous Mind Screw games.

I'm leaning towards the following solution: Keep Nat blocked today and ask vigs (if any) to kill him, lynch him tomorrow if he's not dead at that time.

[Tarhalindur]

Gentlemen, even if there is a mycosynth pit in the game, given what my ability is supposed to do to metal players it might be a better idea to throw Nat in the pit tomorrow (allowing me to nail the super for targeting metal), considering how useful the bonus for targeting metal is.

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, why are we getting sidetracked talking about Honors theses when we could be talking about who is scum? (Okay, I admit I'm not helping here as much as I should, another game has higher priority.)

For instance, who else thinks that Illumina is scum?

Where's Kinetic's sense of indignant self-righteousness? His lack of the spotlight has reached the state where it's pinging my scumdar (suggests an attempt to avoid attention AND doesn't mesh with his town meta).

Also:

Gentlemen, even if there is a mycosynth pit in the game, given what my ability is supposed to do to metal players it might be a better idea to throw Nat in the pit tomorrow (allowing me to nail the super for targeting metal), considering how useful the bonus for targeting metal is.

We can't risk you being scum and getting some double kill.

So, you want to lynch Natirasha because... I *could* be scum with some sort of metal for hitting town? You're not even saying that I *am* necessarily scum, just that we should lynch/mycosynth Nat because I *could be? That's not making any sense to me. First off, if you think I'm scum, WHY THE HELL AREN'T YOU VOTING FOR ME?

[Tarhalindur]

Argh....

I'm going to take a couple days away from mafiascum to scream at a wall, I'm pretty sure it will be more useful.

Tar knows why.

No I can't explain. Just please excuse me for a few days. Thank you.

I believe the following quote is appropriate:

And you don't seem to understand
A shame you seemed an honest man
And all the fears you hold so dear
Will turn to whisper in your ear
And you know what they say might hurt you
And you know that it means so much
And you don't even feel a thing

I am falling
I am fading
I have lost it all

And you don't seem the lying kind
A shame that I can read your mind
And all the things that I read there
Candle lit smile that we both share
And you know I don't mean to hurt you
But you know that it means so much
And you don't even feel a thing

I am falling
I am fading
I am drowning, help me to breathe
I am hurting
I have lost it all
I am losing, help me to breathe

Now, all I need is a smilie of the infamous three monkeys (see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil).

Back to the game in a bit.

[Tarhalindur]

Posting to avoid possible prod.

I've fallen behind, will need a day or two to catch back up.

[Tarhalindur]

Still here, but a little out of things (I'm somewhat V/LA until I finish getting my bearings on this semester).

Notes on rules:

Natirasha is almost certainly using a barely-modified version of my ruleset. That means: We almost certainly have a little less than a week until deadline (unless time between first deadline review and second deadline review =/= 1 week, I should doublecheck), PM quoting and scumbuddy claims are almost certainly modkillable, and jackassery should be in effect.

I don't have time for a proper causation analysis just yet, so quick thoughts on players:

Kinetic - He's missing his zeal here (nontown tell coming from him, given past experience), but he's posted a case on poptajo. I'll look over the poptajo ASAP - if it's not BS, Kinetic is likely town. @Kinetic: Did you lay out a case against Kairyuu somewhere? If yes, I missed the spot check: please point out the post number. If not, I'd like to know why you think Kairyuu is scum.

forbiddanlight - Quiet for this game (this is not completely hypocritical - one reason I rarely join a Mafia game as a player is because I'm fairly inactive at times), but appears to have indicated V/LA. Big mindset to double-check here is whether forbiddanlight is trying to stay under the radar and avoid conflict (scum mindset), which I haven't had time to do yet.

Illumina - Need to run causation analysis on her more recent posts - it's clearly evasion, but the real question is whether he's trying to dodge questions. @Illumina: If there's a post where you summarize what you believe Kairyuu's points against you are and your defense of those points, please point it out. If not, please write one.

Isacc - Just shot up to the top of my scumdar due to his analysis in 276. Note how much he tries to avoid making firm conclusions (always pointing out other possible explanations) - I'm reading that as an attempt to leave escape routes should his position become unpopular (scum mindset). Also note the "However, Vi's argumentative style bugs me for reasons I cannot yet put my finger wholely on."; note how, instead of asking why Vi's argumentative style is bugging him, Isacc notes that this style is bugging him and implies that he will go back and figure out why (going back and trying to make a justification for the case...?).

Unvote, Vote: Isacc

poptajo - Reading town to me, partially for what I see as inexperienced town play (holding positions and sticking to them, responding to questions, etc.), partially for contingent historical (meta) reasons built partially on an ongoing game where I was or am a player.

MafiaSSK - Needs further evaluation. The more I look at his "no, we can't let you see if your ability will get its bonus on Nat because you might be scum looking for a doublekill", the more I'm seeing the possibility of scum fearmongering. The problem is, I'm not getting as much of a scum read from the rest of his posts, and MafiaSSK has a "plays antitown as town" meta... my preferred solution for now is investigate and/or vig and hope we don't have to worry about lynching him.

veerus - Again, a player with shorter posts than normal, and IIRC I laid a case out against him earlier. Expect more on this front when I actually have sleep.

Screw it, I'll get the rest up when I have some sleep.

[Tarhalindur]

Can I step in with what I think a role based off Nat from Real Life would be? It would be a Serial Killer, almost certainly.

Have you looked at my wiki?

Rules Infraction!

I dunno, Natirasha seems like the leader of the Cult of Natirasha~

-----

*lays out Tarhalindur bait in this space*

-----

At any rate, that post shows that he probably has the note now (via scumbuddy, by virtue of starting with it, aliens, etc.).

Knows what note says =/= has the note

-----

f-light, no content, setup speculation only, FINAL DESTINATION, etc.

-----

I need to look into veerus and Isacc later; I have to go to class.

Tarhalindur bait noted, eaten (to be followed by dinner), larger post coming in a couple of hours.

Quick notes (since it takes ~10 seconds): I wouldn't affix any defined alignment to a Natirasha (or Tarhalindur) role - Tarhalindur (from Real Life) has been both town and SK in my Mind Screw games.

Unvote

- Isacc's response to my questioning is blatantly pro-town (note the self-righteousness). I'll explain more in a bit.

[Tarhalindur]

Post to avoid prod, longer post coming tomorrow.

[Tarhalindur]

I'll be checking to see whether I can dig up any interactions from Kinetic in a bit.

I'm not sure about whether to ask for the person who has Dreams of Reality (if anyone) to claim. I do know that the message above looks suspiciously like a 1-shot I've always included in Dreams of Reality.

Now, the important part:

Hp [leaves], Bender Rodriguez, Robo-Supremacist, dismantled day one.

Considering that Bender was almost certainly metal, I'm pretty damn sure I'm responsible for that kill (I switched target to hp [leaves] after Natirasha was lynched*, and my bonus for targeting metal is that I kill the target).

* - Natirasha seems to be using my rules/ability resolution order, which would mean that his Supersaint was a Rapid Action and therefore could not be prevented by my roleblock. I decided to block hp [leaves] in the hopes of preventing a Mafia kill and maybe vigging metal.

(Note on my information from yesterday - the only thing I was told was that it would be a bad idea to lynch the mod (though the phrasing was that of a much sterner warning, if not an order). I wasn't told why.

[Tarhalindur]

Wait, this is fucking obvious.

Just look at forbiddanlight's posts in isolation, and see just how many of them are off topic (not to mention the setup speculation). (I'll PBPA in a bit, I'm short on time now.)

That's IIoA, and a particularly reliable form of it to boot. (Kinetic was just as guilty of the same form of IIoA before his death - I should have caught it then, I just didn't have time to focus on two games at once.)

Vote: forbiddanlight

[Tarhalindur]

Nyeh, ah well, this game really was bad for me anyway.

I know the feeling all too well. *pets*

So do I - thanks for fucking me over in a certain ongoing game, btw. (Why no, I couldn't possibly be bitter and sarcastic here. What are you talking about?)

Now, as for charges that I'm G-Man:

It's not completely impossible that I'm G-Man: I've run into a fan theory that says that my character *becomes* G-Man at some point in the future of the Half-Life universe. If this is the case, however, Natirasha is lying to me to such an extent that I would have serious doubts about ever playing another Natirasha game (and would likely withdraw from Parallel Universe, assuming that project isn't dead) - I have what should be the unambiguous indicator of town alignment in my role PM. I have no indication that I might not be town (which is something I try to include for all ambiguous-alignment roles in my games)

Re: Thinking Nat was G-Man - the name of the ability is taken DIRECTLY from a quote in the first game (a quote related to G-Man, no less). I considered Nat=G-Man a logical inference, (Note that, at least for me, the name of the ability that tells me G-Man is not town is another quote from the Half-Life series with a single letter removed.)

About killing metal things: Let me put it to you this way. I block people by beating them over the head with a certain blunt object. If that person is metal, I simply put them out of commission.

About my information that lynching the mod was a bad thing... uh, a Doc with perfect knowledge of kills is utterly, utterly broken. This was, apparently, only one of Natirasha's abilities. Yes, I'd say a Nat lynch was a bad thing.

Notes on setup:

- Bender did NOT have the unambiguous indicator of pro-town alignment in this game. Given this, I must assume either mod error (note that Bender had NO indication of alignment given at all) or that Bender was Neutral.
- Given the format and the fact that it was provided where a vote count should have been, I'm all-but-certain that the "4-2-3" is an ability I usually refer to as the Count of Monte Cristo ability (after its name in Mind Screw 1). It has ALWAYS been a Dreams of Reality action. This means we either have 4 town, 2 Mafia, and 3 Neutrals OR we have 4 town, 2 Mafia 1, and 3 Mafia 2. I'm not sure which, yet.

[Tarhalindur]

Isacc, claim in your next post or die.

This is not a drill, repeat, this is not a drill.

[Tarhalindur]

Also, Wiretapper probably has the following ability: "Each day, you may target a player. Any role-related mod message that player receives will be forwarded to you"; it has the right name and I'm pretty sure I discussed the utility of that ability with Nat prior to running Mind Screw 3.

[Tarhalindur]

EBWODP: Just noticed something. Isacc, how do you know there's only one scum left?

There were two and FL just died. Note post 356:

Ok, yanno what? I just read my quicktopic and Nat just pissed me off. I'm sorry to

my unnamed scumbuddy

, but I can't stand this anymore.

@Tar: Wow, quite an attack. I think I understand what happened though, as it seems a pretty logical course of events. I am guessing you role-blocked me, and since the kill didn't go through, you suspect me of being the last scum?

Well, I am sorry, but you did not block any abilities of mine last night, as I could not use any. I am not so sure about a role-claim so quickly. I can see why you want me to, but I think we can talk about this first. If others want me to claim, I will, as it will not be outing a hugely useful role.

Hmm, I was a bit hasty when I asked for claim - I didn't take into account all possible reasons for what I saw.

You are correct that I roleblocked you. You are incorrect in assuming that I suspect you because my roleblock did not result in a kill (all that says to me is that you are non-metal).

The reason why I suspect you is very simple: there is strongly implied to be a missing kill yesterday. Let's take a look at the Day 1 flavor: Natirasha was lynched (1 kill), zwetschenwasser died from Supersaint hammer (2 kills), hp [leaves] was killed by me (3 kills), Kinetic was killed by an unknown hand (4 kills)*, and both the Day 2 flavor and forbiddanlight indicate that the Mafia kill was blocked by Natirasha's Doc protect (5 kills).

Now, let's take a look at last night. There are two kills; forbiddanlight was lynched (1 kill) and Vi was killed by an unknown hand. The third kill from D1 (zwetschenwasser) was a 1-shot kill, so that accounts for 1 missing kill; another kill can be accounted for by the fact that my ability only kills metal (so Isacc is not metal). That still, however, leaves 1 missing kill. Where could it have gone? Some possibilities:

1) I blocked a kill.
2) Another, unrevealed role with a protective/roleblocking ability blocked a kill. Doubtful, IMO, since this requires at least two means of preventing a kill in the game (this can lead to problems - see Battlestar Galactica), but not completely impossible (I've considered running extremely protection-heavy setups in the past).
3) Forbiddanlight had a kill-preventing ability and blocked a kill before lynch (not impossible given the role name - I suspect she was some form of roleblocker - but somewhat unlikely).
4) The Beloved Princess is responsible for the missing kill (would require either a blocked kill tonight or a retaliatory kill D1, both of which are unusual for the role)
5) hp [leaves] was the SK or a similar killing role (depends on what robo-supremacist does... buffed SK and Inquisitor/Vigicultist both seem plausible).

The first explanation is the simplest, but by no means the easiest. I need to think this over.

* - Something is amiss here... take a look at the player list on the first page. Kinetic does not appear ANYWHERE on the player list. Instead, Natirasha seems to have taken his place.

Speaking of Natirasha, that mysterious resurrection also bugs me. I had doubts about Natirasha's claimed explanation even before I noticed this (uh, his role is frakking Jesus... rising from the dead after

3

1 days, anyone?) and there is precedent for Mind Screw games having roles that change alignments after reviving (hi, MafiaSSK)... I trust his new incarnation far less than his old one.

[Tarhalindur]

EBWODP: Just noticed something. Isacc, how do you know there's only one scum left?

Speaking of Natirasha, that mysterious resurrection also bugs me. I had doubts about Natirasha's claimed explanation even before I noticed this (uh, his role is frakking Jesus... rising from the dead after

3

1 days, anyone?) and there is precedent for Mind Screw games having roles that change alignments after reviving (hi, MafiaSSK)... I trust his new incarnation far less than his old one.

Do you think a 1 day delay Judas is actually possible?

Uh, 1-day delay Judas sounds positively simple given some of the roles Nat knows about... hell, I've used both parts of that ability before (delayed ability resolution and Judas both have precedent in completed Mind Screw games).

The bigger problem here is, why is Kinetic not appearing in the list of players in any way, and why is Natirasha appearing where he is?

[Tarhalindur]

EBWODP: Just noticed something. Isacc, how do you know there's only one scum left?

Speaking of Natirasha, that mysterious resurrection also bugs me. I had doubts about Natirasha's claimed explanation even before I noticed this (uh, his role is frakking Jesus... rising from the dead after

3

1 days, anyone?) and there is precedent for Mind Screw games having roles that change alignments after reviving (hi, MafiaSSK)... I trust his new incarnation far less than his old one.

Do you think a 1 day delay Judas is actually possible?

Uh, 1-day delay Judas sounds positively simple given some of the roles Nat knows about... hell, I've used both parts of that ability before (delayed ability resolution and Judas both have precedent in completed Mind Screw games).

The bigger problem here is, why is Kinetic not appearing in the list of players in any way, and why is Natirasha appearing where he is?

Could the Judas ability have also killed one of the mafia members when Natirasha got revived as possibly one of the mafia members?

Unlikely, but this *is* a Mind Screw game. As I said, the fact that Kinetic has disappeared from the player list is extremely problematic.

I do, however, need to look something over - I was looking over the thread earlier today, and I may have spotted something that might indicate a Townie Reviver. (No, I will NOT reveal what that something is.)

Besides, I have bigger things to deal with. Not Isacc, either - if he's scum, he's likely neutral (not Mafia given his D1 play), and I can always just block him if needed. PBPA on veerus coming shortly (hopefully tonight, but see the "need sleep" bit) - he's Mafia. Forget the D1 actions, his reaction to forbiddanlight's claim yesterday pretty much condemns him in my eyes.

Unvote, Vote: veerus

. (I am also considering a Natirasha lynch and asking veerus to hammer - he was a SuperSaint last time around...)

[Tarhalindur]

I don't have time to finish the PBPA tonight, so let's just throw up the comments that are drawing my attention:

Wow, thanks fl for fucking up the game. I told myself that I'd never enter a game you're in after that other game where you totally went berserko on everybody (the source of your ridiculous sig) and made the game less fun but you seem to join all the fun games that I want to play in so it is what it is.

This is mind-screw which sometimes implies bastard mod which often implies that some crazy and unfair shit will go down. Live with it or don't sign up for games with a high chance of bastard modding.

I'd like the game to continue as there seem to be a lot of unusual roles - something I've come to expect and love from MS games.

And since FL has admitted to being scum, this is a no-brainer:

vote: forbiddanlight

FURTHER, you have been in at least one game I know of with me and didn't complain. Do you just choose to selectively recall games? I don't like it when someone can't realize a game is just a game, and after the game we all kiss and make up. I didn't "ruin" that game any more than I "ruined" this one. Yes, I got a little emotional. It happens to everyone. Live with it.

That was the first game I played with you where you blew up. I think we've been in either 3 or 4 games together and you have gotten "a little emotional" twice now for a roughly 50% blow up rate while everyone else I've played with more than once has a 0% blow up rate.. makes me wonder how you define "everyone". Regardless, I obviously won't avoid a game because you're in it, but since the first game wasn't an isolated incident, I figured I'd get emotional right back at you. I'm sure you understand.

Veerus, I would like you to explain these two posts. NOW. Because I'm having some difficulty seeing why town would appear to be that disappointed in forbiddanlight's claim.

[Tarhalindur]

1) I was not disappointed in FL's claim, thus my vote on her

2) A scum claim the way she did it was totally inappropriate. And that forced the exchange which referred to an out of game incident. I'm having a hard time understanding why a player with your experience would jump on what is obviously an out-of-game interaction (should've been super obvious after even FL suggested to take the conversation off-line). Nice OMGUS attack though after I pointed out FL's slip mentioning you as her scum-buddy. I'm surprised no one else has said anything about it.

1) I hadn't bothered to respond yet because I strongly suspect that you yourself consider that attack a load of bullshit yourself - especially since I have a post in Mind Screw 3 (referenced earlier in this game) which forbiddanlight could have been referring to (I would daresay was logically referring to, but you may disagree) and which you damn well know about.

Here, for reference, the relevant quote:

Sorry, wrong answer, Nat - I seem to recall explicitly explaining why a player-Mod must by necessity be self-aligned. You're not town, and we're getting rid of you at some point.

Now, let's just get this over with. I suspect you're trying to trap me into using this line of reasoning to pull a "and how is this any different from your behavior earlier?". If so, nice try - the big difference is that I have difficulty seeing how "I'm assuming the scum have safeclaims" logically leads to "the scum have safeclaims". See below for details.

2) If you honestly believe that this is a slip (can't rule this out, but I doubt it), then nothing I say is going to change anything, because I have no way of knowing what forbiddanlight was thinking when she made that post. In addition, even if you were interpreting MY post, merely explaining a possible pro-town reason is unlikely to change your interpretation. Hence, there's no possible defense to your charge other than showing an alternate possible interpretation (which I have now done - see above), and no point in me dwelling on it further until such time as you give a detailed explanation of how my interpretation does not meet the facts.

3) OMGUS is a null tell (it's perfectly possible for a town to believe a scum is attacking them, or for a scum to believe a scum from another faction is attacking them*). An OMGUS attack should be looked at like any other attack.

* - See my attack on Jazzmyn in Mafia 87.

I suppose I wouldn't be entirely against a name claim, though I doubt it'll accomplish anything. Any name could be either town or scum (plus there are safeclaims) and the few roles that have name information likely don't have enough information or it is misleading/incomplete to break the set up.

Okay, let's break this post down, because it's damn incriminating.

1) Veerus says outright that there are safeclaims. He's claimed that he simply assumed that there were safeclaims given that all past Mind Screw games have had them. This is, admittedly, possible. The problem is the wording: not a statement that he assumes there are safeclaims, not a statement that G-Man *must* have a safeclaim (which I would agree with - I would not allow an anti-town player with a blatantly obvious role name to be trapped into a counterclaim). Instead, veerus makes a blanket claim that there are safeclaims (which, upon looking at it, also implies *more than one* - which is a shaky inference at best).

2) What's more, veerus himself also points out the reason why there need not be more than one safeclaim: role names (with the exception of G-Man, though I will not fault him for not pointing this out) are unlikely to be indicative of town or scum. (Note that the main reason I asked for a role claim was on the off chance G-Man would be stupid enough to claim his real role, since he's the exception.) I've been increasingly leery of giving Mafia safeclaims lately, instead trying to give them role names that do not make it obvious they are scum. Natirasha knows this (from Mind Screw II and LoZ: OoT at the very least - a grand total of one Mafioso in those two games had a safeclaim). Veerus should probably have known this - among other things, Ocarina of Time was finished by the time he posted this post.

3) The most decisive point - despite pointing out what is wrong with a massclaim, veerus doesn't fully oppose it. Instead, he says, effectively, that he doesn't like it but could be convinced to go along with it. I'm not completely sure why veerus would say this as town; apathy, maybe, or a belief that it wouldn't hurt the town to massclaim... but I'm reading an unwillingness to commit to a position there.

Now, from the unfinished PBPA:

Problem of the hour #2:

I suppose I wouldn't be entirely against a name claim, though I doubt it'll accomplish anything. Any name could be either town or scum

(plus there are safeclaims)

and the few roles that have name information likely don't have enough information or it is misleading/incomplete to break the set up.

Wait, how exactly do you know that there are safeclaims? That looks like one hell of a slip to me...

How is it a slip? It's an assumption based on history. All previous MS games included a safeclaim for scum. I see no reason to expect anything different here.

Tar, your #4 & #5 are interesting because I also know that someone from Half-Life is a mod-confirmed non-town. That's why I said I wouldn't be against a name claim and also why I think scum are likely provided a safe name claim ala previous MS games.

Also,

fos: populartajo

for voting me without much reasoning (except using someone else's who didn't even vote me in the first place). In fact, looking at tajo's posts in isolation shows that since the game started, he contributed absolutely NOTHING to the discussion.

1) Mind Screw II had enough roles without safeclaims (2 Mafiosos) that this alone doesn't convince me - especially given that there's only one non-town that *has* to have a falseclaim and veerus implied multiple falseclaims. I've had a clear tendency towards giving scum non-incriminating role names instead of safeclaims lately; I suspect Nat has done the same.

2) You're right that scum were almost certainly provided with a safeclaim. Why do you then assume that they have more than one?

3) veerus's vote at this time was a random vote. Why FoS instead of vote? (Note that his reasoning was not invalid at time of post - poptajo only became obvtajotown later - and that I consider OMGUS a nulltell.)

Also, as long as I'm here...

<snip>

Seriously? No, seriously tar? You should know better. I'm pretty sure Nat was trying to stay faithful to your modding practice.

<snip>

Hey look at the known scum defending veerus. Also note the dismissive, even disdainful attitude in said defense.

More is coming ASAP.

[Tarhalindur]

I don't know about you guys, but I have FLIES to deal with. Annoying flies, of the species

Drosophilia melanogaster

.

Mod: I am V/LA for at least the next week.

[Tarhalindur]

I think the best plan is the following.

Nat had a supersaint ability the last time he was playing. We can't trust Nat being town this time around. Why not lynch Nat and use the hammer vote as a second lynch?

[Tarhalindur]

Keep in mind, there may be 2 scum groups in the game. He may just have gotten lucky. He's attacked a different person with nearly every other post. Even a blind squrrel finds the nut once in a while.

Haha... Good uh, analogy...

This is more of what I mean, I never seem to see a case constructed over several posts like I am used to with Tar, I don't know why he's doing it, either.

A combination of personal inactivity Day 1 (both Bluehost and personal V/LA), forbiddanlight self-destructing Day 2 (before I could elaborate on the case against her), Natirasha being a priority Days 1 and 3 (arguments for lynching him are based on setup analysis, not play analysis), losing Kinetic's posts at the beginning of today, and this game's general inactivity recently (leading to me getting bored with this game) are largely responsible for my lack of berserker-Tar.

I'm still not sure whether we're dealing with a second Mafia or three neutrals - leaning towards the latter, since my game design sense says that we're not going to have one scumgroup with a mod-revealed scum in it and a second scumgroup without unless the scumgroups have different sizes. (Also, Count of Monte Cristo - I'm assuming that's what the numbers were - has always revealed Town-Mafia-Neutral in my games.)

I need a reread, but last time was here I suspected either veerus or MafiaSSK were Mafia with Nat (nobody else makes sense by play) and Isacc is G-Man and anti-town neutral.

I'll hammer Nat today if necessary.

[Tarhalindur]

Actually, do we still have mods?

If no, we may have bigger problems on our hands - no point wasting more time here if we're mod-abandoned. I'll poke MM in the morning.

In other news: I was mulling over the 2-scumgroup scenario recently, and I've been missing something bloody obvious. I want veerus to answer this question, NOW: veerus, do you or do you not think that there is more than one scumgroup in the game? If undecided, tell which possibility (1 Mafia or 2) you consider more likely.

[Tarhalindur]

Keeping my vote. Nat/Tar lynch tomorrow. I'm curious to see what happens when we lynch Gman.

So you want to no-lynch? Because that's what would happen in any of the original Mind Screw games if you tried to lynch a role name...

Actually, I need to PBPA you. If this is single-scum, you're one of 2 good candidates for being Mafia (in multi-scum you're likely the last scum of forbiddanlight's faction). I still haven't forgotten your little "we should lynch Tar because he *might* be Mafia with a possible bonus kill" D1.

I'm not sure what to think. Nat's comment and FL's subsequent reaction to it makes me think that there is another faction present. Whether it's another mafia or a cult, I do not know. What do you think about that scenario, Tar?

Let me be more blunt here.

1) Do you think that there is a surviving scum faction with three members in it?
2) Do you think that I am a member of that faction? If so, given that your case relies on me being scum with forbiddanlight, how do you propose that forbiddanlight's group still has three members?

Think carefully about your answers.

[Tarhalindur]

Let me be more blunt here.

1) Do you think that there is a surviving scum faction with three members in it?
2) Do you think that I am a member of that faction? If so, given that your case relies on me being scum with forbiddanlight, how do you propose that forbiddanlight's group still has three members?

Think carefully about your answers.

1. I don't know as there isn't enough information. It could be a cult or another scum faction or Nat just fucking with us.
2. No, I think you're a member of FL's faction which lost 2 players so far though arguably Nat is back in as Kinetic's role, but that what we'll find out with today's lynch.

And on that note..

unvote; vote: Natirasha

I would like to see you hammer, Tar.

GOT YOU.

There was a reason why I advised you to think carefully about your answer, you know.

You've been missing a very big problem with your case. Given that the original count was 4-2-3, that means that either there are 3 anti-town neutrals or there was a 3-man scum faction at the beginning of D2.'

Let's assume, as you have, that the second scumgroup is a faction. This means that either hp [leaves] was a member of the second faction (in which case Kinetic wasn't actually dead on D2, which I doubt D2) and it shouldn't even matter, because either Nat became Kinetic or Kinetic - who, as a Cylon, has a fairly good chance of being metalviggable), or there is a surviving 3-man anti-town faction in the game. If there is a three man scumgroup in the game, then we NEED to lynch from the unrevealed group today (in faction-LYLO, the smaller scumgroup counts as town).

THAT was the bloody obvious realization that prompted this line of reasoning.

Let's put it this way - I'm damn sure that either one of fl's group (which should be smaller) is Nat or Kinetic OR that fl's group has only 1 scum. Even if fl's group has 2 survivors, we should be able to take out one of them today (we lynch Nat, I take a potshot at Kinetic). Either way, they are NOT the main threat if we have a scum faction with three surviving scum.

Here's the kicker, though - I don't actually think this exonerates me at all. I'm fairly sure there ISN'T a second scum faction (mainly because Vi claimed Serial Killer-miller and came up town, and if we were counting factions he should have shown up as a seperate faction in the Count of Monte Cristo). I suspect that we're dealing with 1-2 Mafia (depending on Nat) and 2 neutrals from separate factions. Setup theory is as follows:

- Count of Monte Cristo showed town-scum-neutral
- MafiaSSK is Mafia (given his attack on me for "we can't afford to possibly let the scum have an extra kill" D1 and pushing the bad GMan lynch today); either he is last scum or Nat was recruited to Mafia (or, I suppose, Kinetic could have the Lain mechanic...). He's one of only two players in the game whose play now is consistent with Mafia alignment, and the other (veerus) has recently convinced me that he is not Mafia (considering his attack is based on me being Mafia - Selective Scumhunting says he's likely not Mafia).
- Isacc is G-Man and Serial Killer, based mainly on his attack on me D2 (centering around me being a specific character, and a character I suspect is neutral), coupled with what I suspect is a missing kill D2 and my Isacc roleblock D2.
- hp [leaves] was a Cult Recruiter and recruited veerus D1 (note that my metalvig replaces my roleblock, rather than supplement it).

(Note: Last two may be flipped, but I doubt it.)

How this would explain the Count of Monte Cristo result:
4 town: Tarhalindur, Illumina, tajo, UROE (UROE is the biggest stretch here given malthusis's inactivity, but he's reading town right now)
2 Mafia: forbiddanlight, MafiaSSK (Nat resurrected at end of day)
3 Neutral: Vi (Miller), Isacc (GMan-SK), veerus (Cult Recruit)

I would prefer that Isacc hammer today. I will hammer if necessary (read: majority wants it - current count is 3 for, 4 against, 1 unknown). My roleblock target today should be fairly obvious.

Vote: Natirasha

[Tarhalindur]

<snip>

I'd say you have 3 days to deadline.

And nows probably not the greatest time to say this, but I just realized I'm a dumbass. You know that post with the magical numbers? It was supposed to be 4-2-2. Sorry for this inconvenience.

</snip>

The drop in the third group actually makes things much simpler - I daresay hp [leaves] counted in the third group and Nat forgot (that's either a robot Mafia or a count of Neutrals, still leaning towards the latter since SKmillerVi should show up on the count somewhere). Count today is probably 4-1-1 or 4-2-1, depending on whether Nat is now town or Mafia.

Veerus (or maybe Isacc) is neutral, MafiaSSK is Mafia, Natirasha is probably Mafia.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm confused.. 4-2-2 at that stage would've made no sense since we had 9 players. I think this is mod WIFOM in an attempt to cover his ass since he is now part of the mafia.

There *were* four kills that went through D1 (Nat hammered, Zwet nuked by Supersaint kill, hp [leaves] killed by my hand, Kinetic died for unknown reasons).

Two new relevant possibilities: Kinetic has the Lain mechanic and Nat forgot he was supposed to be invisible (if so it's DEFINITELY 2x scum faction, with faction 1 being a robot Mafia) OR Nat resurrected as G-Man.

[Tarhalindur]

You've been on my scum list since my post 436 for other reasons, but basically yes.

veerus: you think Tar is scum with FL and Kinetic? I've said this before, but that's a little hard to believe. You're saying he bussed both of his buddies that early in the game? Given this, I think you're just desperate to kill off the scum detector that's been a thorn in your side.

I don't think it's very realistic that scum Tar would have bussed both his buddies like that. You also seem desperate to start a wagon on Tar (who I doubt is scum) based in what I observed in my 499. I haven't seen any defense attempt yet on these points.

Hate to say it, but I *do* have a meta for bussing the hell out of partners as scum, to the extent that I had to cut back on it because it was getting predictable (see: Stargate SG-1, Mini 594).

Veerus's case on me looks like scum who thinks he's being attacked by scum of another faction (reminds me of my case on Jazzmyn in Mafia 87, in fact).

Still leaning towards Isacc hammer.

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, forbiddanlight gets to hammer Machiavellian-Mafia today. Any questions? No? Good.

Vote: Natirasha

[Tarhalindur]

Hi...why am I alive in this travesty again?

What does Travesty mean? Also are we up for Tar/MM lynch?

You mean... instead of lynching the

known Mafioso

(due to being lynched, revealed as scum, then revived) or forcing said known Mafioso to hammer?

Thanks for claiming Mafia, we'll deal with you ASAP. And by ASAP I mean "tomorrow", since forbiddanlight is presumably the Mafia Roleblocker and I can deal with you at end of day.

FoS: MafiaSSK
HoS: MafiaSSK

[Tarhalindur]

Also, I blocked veerus last night. That may have been a blocked kill, not sure.

[Tarhalindur]

EBWOP: as in "may have blocked a kill submitted by veerus".

[Tarhalindur]

Right. I do think it only works with one person.

Unvote, vote Tar

Oh dear, this didn't show up on the vote count... testing, testing, one two three, I hope everybody who played in Mind Screw 3 now knows why I'm doing this...

Unvote, Vote: Tar

NOBODY ELSE VOTE FOR NATIRASHA UNLESS WE ARE SURE WE ARE LYNCHING HIM.

In other news... I'm torn. As a player, I want forbiddanlight to claim scum partner on the off chance she's telling the truth. As a moderator, I don't, since then, in order to be even remotely consistent about my scumbuddy claim policy, I would have to permaban forbiddanlight from my games. (Also, scumbuddy claims have ALWAYS been modkillable in my games, so it's a safe bet they are modkillable here as well. Not that I would necessarily be adverse to a forbiddanlight modkill.)

As for Isacc - forbiddanlight's original role name was Mafia Temptress. If that's not a roleblock or similar I don't know what is.

[Tarhalindur]

As for Isacc - forbiddanlight's original role name was Mafia Temptress. If that's not a roleblock or similar I don't know what is.

Right, I remember now. The old "Prostitute" for roleblocker thing...I did forget that. I will forgive you on this now.

However, I disagree with the idea that she is a roleblocker (or at least, all a roleblocker). When Vi died after her he was described as "committed suicide," which reminds me of the flavor for lovers, hence my not thinking roleblocker.

When Vi died, I assumed somebody had the Death Note ability, personally - I've used "suicided" as the Death Note kill method in both games I had it in.

Though, now that I think about it, Mafia Lover-Maker could also fit that role name and does sound like a cool role...

[Tarhalindur]

In other news... I'm torn. As a player, I want forbiddanlight to claim scum partner on the off chance she's telling the truth. As a moderator, I don't, since then, in order to be even remotely consistent about my scumbuddy claim policy, I would have to permaban forbiddanlight from my games. (Also, scumbuddy claims have ALWAYS been modkillable in my games, so it's a safe bet they are modkillable here as well. Not that I would necessarily be adverse to a forbiddanlight modkill.)

But if a role is designed to turn from mafia to town, then it's the fault in the design, not the player... Right?

Such roles are not unprecedented AFAIK, and - more importantly - my "no scumbuddy claims" rule (Rule 2 in my games) is partially in place as a failsafe just in case I create a role that can recruit Mafiosos (see: MS3 Inquisitor) and/or a role that switches alignments after a condition is met.

So, no dice.

Irrelevant now anyways, since she's refused to claim scum partner.

[Tarhalindur]

Who hammers?

Vote mm

Forbiddanlight's replacement, with you being my second choice.

Vote: Machiavellian-Mafia

[Tarhalindur]

Thoughts:

- I concur with Prinnies being survivor-cult. (Dammit, I was planning on using a variant of that role in a future game.)
- Illumina was neutral, he removed himself from the game yesterday, and the flavor appears to be linked to his own role. I strongly believe his role was a Survivor of the same type that I used in Mind Screw Mafia 1 (might be a Hitman instead); at any rate, I'm almost certain he removed himself from the game. That means there's a missing Mafia kill to account for.
- I blocked MafiaSSK D4, in the belief that he was likely the last Mafioso. Given that there's probably no Mafia kill yesterday, I believe I was right.
- We know the exact identity of each possible Mafioso and each possible neutral. Consider the following information:

- A player was revived on each of D2, D3, and D4. This means, barring something odd like Rapid Actions, that I have never roleblocked the Prinny maker (and I'd be astounded if there was an unroleblockable Cult (anything Cult-like is already risky in a Mini).
- There is a missing kill D4. There may be a missing kill D1, but there is a possible alternative: looking over my ability wording again, the kill effect may be a replacement effect instead of a bonus effect (in other words, the mod notes could be that I can kill or roleblock, depending on ability type, but not both) - the Kinetic "kill" could have been due to hp [leaves]. Alternately, it could have been something built into either his role or Nat's role. There are no other missing kills that I can see.
- I roleblocked hp [leaves] D1, Isacc D2, veerus D3, and MafiaSSK D4.
- Vi is all-but-confirmed Prinny Vassal, given that all other revived players have had that role.
- Prinny maker probably comes from a Disgaea game (I admire Nat's taste). If somebody has rolebased that a player comes from Disgaea, now's the time to speak up.

Conclusions:
- MafiaSSK is, in keeping with his player name, Mafia, and made the Mafia kill D4. Given that Kinetic, when he was posting as a player, was revealed as Mafia Godfather, I strongly suspect that MafiaSSK is the last Mafioso (at least on the player list...)
- Populartajo is probably the Prinny maker (I'm investigated Town; Vi is confirmed non-Cult Leader; veerus, Isacc, and MafiaSSK have been roleblocked by me and survived, and thus aren't the Cult Leader; UROE is inactive, so the only way he can recruit is if the recruiting is forced), and probably a Cult Leader.
- I'm getting really, really paranoid about the possibility that Kinetic has the invisible/Lain ability (given how much Nat has tried to subvert my comments this game, fitting a different version of Lain in this game sounds like something he'd do) and is still in the game (either as a Mafia Godfather or as a Cult Leader). I'm probably using my roleblock on him today (especially since Kinetic might be Number 6, and Number 6, as a Cylon, might be viggable).

Question is: Do we kill MafiaSSK or poptajo today?

Second question is: Could mass ability claim be worth it? We're approaching the point where I should be able to break the setup in half.

[Tarhalindur]

EBWOP Prinnies being reviver-cult.

Vi, got anything to say about that?

[Tarhalindur]

Tarhalindur, I really do apologize that I keep ruining your Mafia life, but--

What's it like to be mortal?

"But I don't want to go among mad people," said Alice.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat, "we're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad."
"How do you know that I'm mad?" asked Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

I understand. I understand everything.

*insert mad scientist laughter here*

Now, I do think you're scum (off topic posts? Two words: Mafia 87), but you're not a Cult Leader so I still have time for a little tea or crumpets before I shove you into the noose in a couple of game days.

Where is the avatar from? (I think I know the answer all too well, but I'm double checking. Especially given the Nixon avatar you had earlier.)

[Tarhalindur]

[quote="mysterious numbers (hai Count of Monte Cristo)]4-2-2[/quote]

Hmm.

Alive, Day 2:

4 - Town, fairly clearly. (presumably Tarhalindur, Isacc, veerus, UROE)
2 - Mafia (forbiddanlight, MafiaSSK)
2 - Neutral (poptajo, Vi?)
1 - Not a Faction (Illumina*)

Dead, Day 2:
2 - Town (Natirasha**, zwetschenwasser)
1? - Mafia? (Kinetic?)
1 - Neutral (hp [leaves])

* - Count of Monte Cristo has always provided a list of factions. I've only made one neutral with a triggered win condition that counted as a member of a faction (Star Child, Mind Screw 1 - Babylon 5 Soul Hunter doesnt count due to the anti-factions), while all others that didn't have to kill off all other factions (Mind Screw 3 Haruhi, all Mind Screw 3 Jesters, Ocarina of Time Past-Ganondorf - all didn't have to be killed off for other factions to win) have explicitly said they don't count as a faction.

Now, the standard wording of the Count of Monte Cristo ability:

The Day of Sagittarius:

"Until further notice, each Vote Count will contain a list of the number of factions and the number of surviving players in each of those factions."

If Illumina had the "are not counted as a faction" clause in his win con, the mysterious numbers make sense as a Count result: Illumina wasn't a faction (and hence not counted) and Vi was an SK-miller (can you confirm this, Vi?).

Hell, this theory would also explain why Nat screwed up on the original Count result (4-2-

3

) in the first place - he forgot that Illumina wasn't a member of a faction (as per win condition) and included him in the count of the neutrals.

I probably should have caught on to this earlier.

** - Natirasha wasn't Prinny at the point of the original Count, since he was revived at end of Day 2.

Now, I just had another, probably insane thought... what if Kinetic's role was such that two players (Kinetic, MafiaSSK) had the same role, but only one counted towards the Mafia win condition? When the first one died off, the second would become the only real player...

Doesn't affect the play today at all, but it's an interesting idea to speculate on.

[Tarhalindur]

Oh right, another obvious conclusion:

Mod: Is Rule 0 supposed to be in effect right now?

If not, I'd wager that MafiaSSK is hiding the rules. (Maybe poptajo-Cult Leader, but I doubt it.)

Also, I'm thinking the best choice of actions here is to lynch MafiaSSK today and I block poptajo - that removes any remaining chance of Tajo making another Prinny. (Also, it guards against the possibility that the recruiter is actually the inactive UROE with a forced recruit - if UROE is the recruiter, another player should be resurrected.)

[Tarhalindur]

Er, make that "if yes".

[Tarhalindur]

Go avay or I shall taunt you a second time!

(off topic posts? Two words: Mafia 87)

You're welcome. And hey, I apologized for outing you already. Under different circumstances, I would be outing you as SK using more, ah, straightforward means. (Looking through other games you have been in, you ARE always the SK, right? Or just in the games when you're not Mafia?~)

----

All right, listen up. Or not.

Anyone with the brain of a scarecrow can tell you that I am Richard Nixon, Prinny Vassal. There's really no sane way to argue my way out of that, so there it is.
The rest of the details are your problem, not mine. But I would like to discuss this mechanic after the game, as I was kind of hoping I was the first person to come up with it. (Darn my lack of modding experience, etc.)

Incidentally, Tarhalindur is one-for-two as far as guessing others' roles.

*f-light was indeed a Mafia Lover-Maker. I was told after D1 that if Amante died that day, I would too. Of course, Natirasha wasn't kind enough to tell me who Amante

was

, so yeah. At the time I thought f-light intentionally blew up in order to take me out of the game, hence the maniacal laughter in my "bah" post. Either way, I have to admit this is another cool role that Natirasha beat both of us to implementing.

*I am not a Tracker. No, I can read a snippet of your Role PM each day after I wiretap you. And my first target was Illumina... who interestingly enough flipped G-Man. And the first result I got from Illumina was that

while you (Illumina) are alive, Gordon Freeman (Tarhalindur) cannot be killed.

Explanation, please? Or are we going to taunt each other with eerily similar ominous laughing for a while yet?

And obv. I'm an SK-miller. I'm the one that said that the first time, remember? I flipped Townie Wiretapper; that was my actual role.

Last and btw, my avatar is Mia, the angelic Staff Chick from Golden Sun. It doesn't have to do with my revival in this game, though. (In related news, I'm really tired of being the Doctor in so many games.)

Odd, I thought your comment on being mortal was a reference to me being a player in a Mind Screw game and not literally unkillable. Probably because I knew nothing of this - given that you've outed my actual role name, I've effectively fullclaimed (Mr. Crowbar himself, can block a player each day (will kill that player if that player is metal), has two pieces of rolebased information from start of game).

There's two possibilities here, given what I know: you're lying, or I had an Archangel (which auto-removes itself late game) that I didn't know about. Both are plausible.

Support for Archangel theory: it makes sense flavorwise (G-Man seems to have an interest in protecting Freeman in the Half-Life games); moreover, G-Man having that ability wasn't incriminating - my interpretation given yesterday is that G-Man probably wasn't anti-town, just non-town.

The question is, what game purpose would a Neutral Archangel have? I'm guessing it would have *something* to do with Bender - I've come to suspect that he was VERY powerful, and that we're lucky I got rid of him D1.

Support for the "you're lying" theory: Unless you give us a good reason to assume otherwise (read: a good reason why Prinny Vassals would be town), we know that you're not town. Both revivers and Cult recruiters have horrible ability priority if Natirasha is using my ability resolution order (and given that he borrowed my ruleset...); I find it implausible that a reviver OR a cult recruiter would be immune to roleblocking, given how much I tend to gimp both roles. Also, I was whack-a-moled as town, we can account for all neutrals in the Monte Cristo count given your SK-millerness and the Prinny leader (again, unless you can show that Prinnies are town), and have caught every scum we've killed save perhaps Kinetic (killed hp [leaves], spotted forbiddanlight, forced through the forbiddanlight/Nat lynch), so I'm probably Public Enemy #1 to your faction. No good reason to assume that you're telling the truth there.

Doesn't matter, we'll have to deal with you later anyways.

(As for your avatar, I thought you'd adopted an odd Full Metal Panic! (Kaname Chidori) avatar for a bit, hence the curiousity. Also, it wasn't as off-topic as I claimed - you had a Nixon avatar before the D3 kill, so it *could* have been role-related.)

[Tarhalindur]

Rrrrrrrreeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Hey Tarhalindur (again). How did you know that the rules should be visible?

Point 1: I've suspected since D1 that G-Man was responsible for the rule blocking, based largely on the fact that a) just about everyone was told he was not town and b) it's what I would have done:

I have little time, so I'll make this brief.

First, I'm pretty sure that hp [leaves] just claimed scum, so...

Vote: hp [leaves]

Second, my information is, likewise, that G-Man is in the game and not town. Given the fact that other players were informed this, there's a few obvious possibilities for what he's doing (Mafia Godfather, neutral, Moderator).

My gut is telling me that G-Man might also be the game's equivalent of Chairman Mao...

Third, I should probably reveal this now, since in context it's effectively a Miller claim. I am a character from Half-Life myself - another character, one who is aligned with Mr. Crowbar... er, Gordon Freeman... in the games. Looking at the game timeline and my flavor, it's probably most accurate to say that I come from somewhere in the Half-Life 2 Episodes. I have at least two abilities (the "know G-Man is not town" ability and the "shouldn't noose the Mod" warning, to paraphrase); I may have more.

What's getting really interesting is that the flavor behind my, to paraphrase, "You really shouldn't put the Mod in the noose" information is ALSO from Half-Life. Specifically, it appears to be derived from the flavor surrounding the resonance cascade (which, after review, would be the alien-unleashing cataclysm in the first game), and is not too dissimilar to the flavor in one of the early vote counts (the one in where there were three votes on the Mod).

I'm not sure exactly what's so bad about lynching the Mod, if anything - I just know that I am explicitly warned not to do so.

Fourth, this will likely be my last post in this game for a bit. I will have absolutely no access until 01/07 at best (01/14 if worst comes to worst). I would prefer to remain in the game but will (grudgingly) understand if I must be replaced.

Point 2: G-Man left the game yesterday.

Point 3: If I think the Mod made a mistake, I'll ask about it. (I know how bad I am about forgetting things in Mind Screw games...)

So, when G-Man turned up dead, I asked to make sure that the rule's continued existence were intended (meaning that my Mao => G-Man theory would be wrong) and not just a mod error. Turns out, the mod error was involved.

Oh yeah, given your comment on "always SK" - nope, I've been town a good deal. I always seem to be either Cop or vanilla as town (Mafia 78's the completed game I was town in, IIRC, and I was Cop there.)

[Tarhalindur]

4-2-2

Hmm.

Alive, Day 2:

4 - Town, fairly clearly. (presumably Tarhalindur, Isacc, veerus, UROE)
2 - Mafia (forbiddanlight, MafiaSSK)
2 - Neutral (poptajo, Vi?)
1 - Not a Faction (Illumina*)

Dead, Day 2:
2 - Town (Natirasha**, zwetschenwasser)
1? - Mafia? (Kinetic?)
1 - Neutral (hp [leaves])

Tar, how does this theory jive with the fact that you think Kinetic is still alive ala-Lain ability?

Anyway, I agree with your plan. We lynch mssk while you block tajo. I disagree that cult is more dangerous. If tajo uses an ability to revive players, Tar's block would prevent that. While mssk won't be able to kill anyone period.

vote: MafiaSSK

If he's in the game (and I'm definitely not sure about that - I'd say he's probably dead, I'm just not sure what he was), then his invisibility ability must be more complete than any I've ever used, to such an extent that he does not appear on the player list, his vote doesn't appear in the vote counts (or he hasn't voted), the Mod's forgotten about him (note 8 alive, 5 to lynch notation on D3), and he doesn't appear on Monte Cristo lists.

More likely, he was taken out of the game by an ability. The question is, how? The dual-role speculation is just that (speculation) - the only role I've ever seen that could completely remove Kinetic from the game was a History-Altering SK in a Star Trek game on MTGS (his kill removed all evidence of that player - including posts - from the game). Unless that's what Bender's role actually was...

Hmm. Anybody have rolebased to help out here?

[Tarhalindur]

So speaking of which... how did Illumina die then?

Looking at that flavor, I'd guess that he worked the same way the Ozmodiar did - survive to the end of a certain day, and you win and remove yourself from the game. It's actually the way Haruhi worked in the very early stages of Mind Screw 3 design (IIRC before Nat got to look at the setup, but I could be misremembering) until I changed her to win based on Dreams of Reality activations (adding the massclaim requirement to address a concern Yos2 brought up in Mind Screw about roles that didn't have to do anything active to win).

Actually, come to think of it, yesterday was the end of Day 3... I wonder, could G-Man have had the Ozmodiar's EXACT win con from the original Mind Screw (roughly "you DO count as a faction and win/warp out if you survive to the end of day 3")? If so, however, that means either something is odd with how Vi-SKmiller interacts with Monte Cristo or the

Prinny-maker

doesn't count as a faction...

[Tarhalindur]

Im not a cult leader.
Im Haruhi Suzimiya, the Townie Dreaming Goddess.

We shouldn't lynch without more info.

Name one-shots and which one-shots you've used, please.

[Tarhalindur]

Anyway, I agree with your plan. We lynch mssk while you block tajo. I disagree that cult is more dangerous. If tajo uses an ability to revive players, Tar's block would prevent that. While mssk won't be able to kill anyone period.

vote: MafiaSSK

You really expect a roleblock of a cult-recruiting in Mind Screw Mafia to work?

Hell yes I would. Just like I'd expect a roleblocking of a resurrect to work (double-life players excepted). In my ability order, those abilities have Special priority (the worst ability priority you can have).

Also, we already knew you weren't town, but thanks for pretty much claiming it. Seriously, fearmongering?

[Tarhalindur]

Wait a minute... *facepalm*

Note to self: there was no kill D3. I blocked veerus that day. There might be a connection there.

(Actually, thinking it over... Vi's information, if accurate, makes mine somewhat less useful for hunting Mafia than I previously thought : there's a chance the Mafia rammed their kill into me. This is more likely yesterday than D3, since there was some suspicion of me D3 and I wasn't Whack-A-Moled until yesterday.)

[Tarhalindur]

Poptajo needs to answer my question quickly. I don't want to let anything really important slip too early, and the game is stalling.

Also, happy birthday Vi. Pity you're Cult.

[Tarhalindur]

Im not a cult leader.
Im Haruhi Suzimiya, the Townie Dreaming Goddess.

We shouldn't lynch without more info.

Name one-shots and which one-shots you've used, please.

Abilities used
Periodic Table of Elements
The Cake is a Lie
Whack-a-Mole
The Aurora

Each day I

may

choose one of these abilities. The Aurora, Marleblanke Effect,

Prinny Day

, The Cake is a Lie, Love Thy Tentacle, Whack-A-Mole, Enter the Wired, Editor-In-Chief? Straight Ahead!!, Periodic Table of Elements. It’s ability will go into effect the next day.

I received information that we are whack-a-moling today. Just FYI.

1) The only thing that can possibly cast doubt on Poptajo having the Dreams of Reality ability is his phrasing - Dreams of Reality has ALWAYS been mandatory in my games, and I'm not sure why Nat would use it differently (pop, if that was an error on your part, now would be a good time to mention it).

Periodic Table sounds like a Count of Monte Cristo to me, so that checks out.
Whack-A-Mole is fairly obvious, though I'm not sure why poptajo didn't use it straight off the bat.

The only other ability I'm fairly sure about what it might do is Editor in Chief - I can think of at least one and probably 2 Tar setups where that ability turned the game into Presidentmaker for at least a short duration.

The Aurora comes from Magic: the Gathering (Lorwyn/Shadowmoor); in the original flavor, it caused the world to change from a light, happy place to a dark, evil one. No idea exactly what it does, though. (Same for Enter the Wired - flavor is obviously Serial Experiments Lain, not sure exactly what it does.)

2) I'm still not sure that poptajo is telling the truth. The key problem here is that Prinny Day ability, which sounds suspiciously like something that would start up the Prinny infestation. I'm not sure, though... there's a bit of a timing issue (it would have to have started its effect on the same day it was used - Day 2 - which is unusual for a Dreams of Reality action to say the least).

Poptajo *could* still be the source of the Prinny infestation. The key is that poptajo is lying about one specific one-shot (meaning he's either Neutral Dreaming God - probably not a threat, I'd expect Dreaming God to not be a faction - or Mafia Dreaming God - in which case he used Whack-a-Mole in an attempt to falseclear himself - or REALLY silly town). If so, he probably used used the Prinny Day ability Day 2, starting the endless Prinny reviving. Whether or not this could have anything to do with Kinetic's disappearance is a good question (dead player becomes an invisible Prinny Reviver-Cult Leader?).

That possibility, however, seems somewhat unlikely. We should be able to leave poptajo alone for the time being.

I want to force a claim out of UROE now.

Hell, come to think of it, I want to force a post out of UROE.

Mod: Please prod/replace UROE

[Tarhalindur]

Anyway, I agree with your plan. We lynch mssk while you block tajo. I disagree that cult is more dangerous. If tajo uses an ability to revive players, Tar's block would prevent that. While mssk won't be able to kill anyone period.

vote: MafiaSSK

You really expect a roleblock of a cult-recruiting in Mind Screw Mafia to work?

Hell yes I would. Just like I'd expect a roleblocking of a resurrect to work (double-life players excepted). In my ability order, those abilities have Special priority (the worst ability priority you can have).

Also, we already knew you weren't town, but thanks for pretty much claiming it. Seriously, fearmongering?

Natirasha should have changed *something* though.

Maybe I am maybe I'm not.

Actually, UROE can wait.

MafiaSSK, claim or die.

[Tarhalindur]

Anyway, I agree with your plan. We lynch mssk while you block tajo. I disagree that cult is more dangerous. If tajo uses an ability to revive players, Tar's block would prevent that. While mssk won't be able to kill anyone period.

vote: MafiaSSK

You really expect a roleblock of a cult-recruiting in Mind Screw Mafia to work?

Hell yes I would. Just like I'd expect a roleblocking of a resurrect to work (double-life players excepted). In my ability order, those abilities have Special priority (the worst ability priority you can have).

Also, we already knew you weren't town, but thanks for pretty much claiming it. Seriously, fearmongering?

Natirasha should have changed *something* though.

Maybe I am maybe I'm not.

Actually, UROE can wait.

MafiaSSK, claim or die.

What's the need? I barely have any votes on me. You're the only one casting suspicion.

MafiaSSK, the case against you is quite simple:

1) I roleblocked you yesterday. There was no Mafia kill yesterday. That alone is enough to warrant a claim from you. (Speaking of that, we need to force a claim from veerus once we're done with you. I forgot to do so D3 because I was too busy with other things like forcing FL to hammer MM.)
2) You've been fearmongering. Observe:

Gentlemen, even if there is a mycosynth pit in the game, given what my ability is supposed to do to metal players it might be a better idea to throw Nat in the pit tomorrow (allowing me to nail the super for targeting metal), considering how useful the bonus for targeting metal is.

We can't risk you being scum and getting some double kill.

Anyway, I agree with your plan. We lynch mssk while you block tajo. I disagree that cult is more dangerous. If tajo uses an ability to revive players, Tar's block would prevent that. While mssk won't be able to kill anyone period.

vote: MafiaSSK

You really expect a roleblock of a cult-recruiting in Mind Screw Mafia to work?

Since you refuse to cooperate, we'll do this the old-fashioned way, scumbag. Even though I suspect you're stalling to give the mod a chance to make a falseclaim for you.

Now, everyone, let's run him up to claim range QUICKLY - don't want to give him time to receive a mod-granted falseclaim PM, do we?

Vote: MafiaSSK

[Tarhalindur]

Actually, no need to dogpile. I just went back and counted MafiaSSK votes.

The Unofficial First Vote Count of Day 4

MafiaSSK (3) - veerus, Isacc, Tarhalindur
populartajo (0)
UnofficialRulerOfEveryone (0)
Isacc (0)
Tarhalindur (0)
veerus (0)
Vi (0)

Not Voting (4) - MafiaSSK, populartajo, Isacc, Vi

Votes to lynch: presumably 4

MafiaSSK, you are at L-1. That is NOT "barely any votes on me". Quite the opposite, actually. Claim in your next post or die.

[Tarhalindur]

Speaking of that: ON PAIN OF DEATH, NOBODY HAMMER MAFIASSK.

Got it?

[Tarhalindur]

Flonne(from Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) a normal Townie (besides the G-man info).

Only thing that supports that claim is that we haven't seen a lynch-bait Townie yet.

Still doesn't get MafiaSSK off the hook, though. Especially given that we need to deal with Prinnies.

I don't want an immediate hammer, however. I'd like some time to think. Specifically, if MafiaSSK is actually town: Do I need to block the Mafioso or the Cult Leader?

Blocking the Mafioso should remove a kill (probably targeted on my ass).
Blocking the Cult Leader removes a revive/recruit (either on MafiaSSK or hp [leaves].

[Tarhalindur]

What the hell? How did I not notice something that big for so long?

Looking over the last few days... I haven't seen a single Mafia kill during the entire game.

D1: Kinetic dies (unknown, presumably Bender or role-related), Nat lynched, zwet supersainted, hp [leaves] killed by me
D2: FL lynched, Vi dies (presumably suicide)
D3: No kills
D4: Illumina RFG'd (presumably role-related), Nat relynched, FL supersainted

The only day when there was no revive was when Nat claimed blocking the Mafia kill... or was FL trying to con us out there?

Could the Prinny revive *be* the Mafia kill?

[Tarhalindur]

Meh, I say hammer at will. Disgaea origin claim is just bad.

[Tarhalindur]

Meh, I say hammer at will. Disgaea origin claim is just bad.

How come?

Two words: Prinnies, dood!

(Read: Prinnies are from Disgaea. I checked. If MafiaSSK didn't know that...)

[Tarhalindur]

Meh, I say hammer at will. Disgaea origin claim is just bad.

How come?

Two words: Prinnies, dood!

(Read: Prinnies are from Disgaea. I checked. If MafiaSSK didn't know that...)

When did you realize this_?

Since before the game started. Note my comment from the beginning of the day, immediately after Nat and FL were revealed as Prinny Vassals:

Thoughts:

- I concur with Prinnies being survivor-cult. (Dammit, I was planning on using a variant of that role in a future game.)
- Illumina was neutral, he removed himself from the game yesterday, and the flavor appears to be linked to his own role. I strongly believe his role was a Survivor of the same type that I used in Mind Screw Mafia 1 (might be a Hitman instead); at any rate, I'm almost certain he removed himself from the game. That means there's a missing Mafia kill to account for.
- I blocked MafiaSSK D4, in the belief that he was likely the last Mafioso. Given that there's probably no Mafia kill yesterday, I believe I was right.
- We know the exact identity of each possible Mafioso and each possible neutral. Consider the following information:

- A player was revived on each of D2, D3, and D4. This means, barring something odd like Rapid Actions, that I have never roleblocked the Prinny maker (and I'd be astounded if there was an unroleblockable Cult (anything Cult-like is already risky in a Mini).
- There is a missing kill D4. There may be a missing kill D1, but there is a possible alternative: looking over my ability wording again, the kill effect may be a replacement effect instead of a bonus effect (in other words, the mod notes could be that I can kill or roleblock, depending on ability type, but not both) - the Kinetic "kill" could have been due to hp [leaves]. Alternately, it could have been something built into either his role or Nat's role. There are no other missing kills that I can see.
- I roleblocked hp [leaves] D1, Isacc D2, veerus D3, and MafiaSSK D4.
- Vi is all-but-confirmed Prinny Vassal, given that all other revived players have had that role.

- Prinny maker probably comes from a Disgaea game (I admire Nat's taste). If somebody has rolebased that a player comes from Disgaea, now's the time to speak up.

Conclusions:
- MafiaSSK is, in keeping with his player name, Mafia, and made the Mafia kill D4. Given that Kinetic, when he was posting as a player, was revealed as Mafia Godfather, I strongly suspect that MafiaSSK is the last Mafioso (at least on the player list...)
- Populartajo is probably the Prinny maker (I'm investigated Town; Vi is confirmed non-Cult Leader; veerus, Isacc, and MafiaSSK have been roleblocked by me and survived, and thus aren't the Cult Leader; UROE is inactive, so the only way he can recruit is if the recruiting is forced), and probably a Cult Leader.
- I'm getting really, really paranoid about the possibility that Kinetic has the invisible/Lain ability (given how much Nat has tried to subvert my comments this game, fitting a different version of Lain in this game sounds like something he'd do) and is still in the game (either as a Mafia Godfather or as a Cult Leader). I'm probably using my roleblock on him today (especially since Kinetic might be Number 6, and Number 6, as a Cylon, might be viggable).

Question is: Do we kill MafiaSSK or poptajo today?

Second question is: Could mass ability claim be worth it? We're approaching the point where I should be able to break the setup in half.

Also, note my original reaction:

Flonne(from Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) a normal Townie (besides the G-man info).

Only thing that supports that claim is that we haven't seen a lynch-bait Townie yet.

Still doesn't get MafiaSSK off the hook, though.

Especially given that we need to deal with Prinnies.

I don't want an immediate hammer, however. I'd like some time to think. Specifically, if MafiaSSK is actually town: Do I need to block the Mafioso or the Cult Leader?

Blocking the Mafioso should remove a kill (probably targeted on my ass).
Blocking the Cult Leader removes a revive/recruit (either on MafiaSSK or hp [leaves].

Lynch bait here was because there's obviously at least one scum/neutral Disgaea role in the game and the claim (vanilla from a series which is known to have at least one scum) sounded similar to, say, Yuki from MSII. (Also note the "especially since we need to deal with Prinnies" wording - again, showing that I knew Prinnies were from Disgaea.)

This wouldn't be nearly as important if not for the fact that MafiaSSK just let us know that he DIDN'T know that Prinnies were from Disgaea. And that significantly increases his chances of being the Prinny maker.

[Tarhalindur]

Bah. See Time Abuse Mafia for lolz.

Hmm... was that a confession of Cult Leader-ness?

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, that's the last Neutral down.

I sent in a modal block yesterday: Kinetic if Kinetic was a legal target, UROE if Kinetic was not a legal target.

Populartajo, which Dream did you use, if any? (In particular, we need to know if you used Endless Eight.)

Count of Monte Cristo, extrapolating from D2 results (not counting Prinny revives):

Town (6):
- Natirasha, Jesus, Townie Son of Mod, lynched D1
- zwetschenwasser, Lain Iwakura, Schizophrenic Townie, supersainted D1
- 4x unknown

Mafia (3):
- Kinetic, Number Six, Mafia Beloved Godfather, run over (probably Bender kill) D1, totally RFG'ed D2
- Forbiddanlight, Amante, Mafia Temptress (lover-maker), lynched D2
- 1x unknown

Neutral (3):
- hp [leaves], Bender, Robo-Supremacist (presumably SK), dismantled by yours truly D1
- Vi, Richard Nixon, Townie Wiretapper/SK-miller, lover-suicided D2
- MafiaSSK, Etna, Prinny Recruiter (cult leader), lynched D5

Not a Faction (1):
- Illumina, G-Man, Neutral Liason (presumably modified Ozmodiar), left the game (won/self-RFG'ed?) D4

We're looking for a single Mafioso here, folks. I suspect it's UROE, but I'm not sure yet.

I also think a full massclaim would be a good idea - if we can confirm three players, we have an autowin.

[Tarhalindur]

Mod: Can we have PRODS on populartajo, Isacc, and veerus as soon as they become prod-eligible? (should be Tuesday if I'm reading right)

[Tarhalindur]

Confirmed or mostly confirmed:

- Tarhalindur (claimed hp [leaves] kill and was not counterclaimed, one of two players to spot forbiddanlight before her self-destruct, Whack-a-moled as town)
- populartajo (claimed Dreams of Reality and has not been counterclaimed - I've considered Dreams of Reality on Mafia before, but the two confirmed Dreams look like a town* Dreaming God)

If we can confirm one more townie, we should be able to autowin (especially with my roleblock floating around). I say massclaim time!

* - we're out of Neutrals, so he can't be neutral.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm all caught up now and my mind is thoroughly screwed. I'll probably need walking through some of these mechanics, I'm pretty new at these kind of games.

Sure, I'll full claim:

I am the

Townie Unmaker (Winston Smith from Nineteen Eighty-Four)

.

My active ability is called

Unperson

. Each day I can target a player in the graveyard and all their posts are deleted. That's what happened to Kinetic Day 2. It hasn't happened to anyone else because Nat left and m-m can't delete posts. :/

My inactive ability is called

Mutual

, you know the one that says g-man's in the game and not town-aligned. I don't think anyone has actually stated the name yet but tajo had considered that day 1.

----------

Re: Other claims:

-I believe that Tar is confirmed town through the whack-a-mole and overall towniness.

-tajo has a role I'm unfamiliar with but it sounds like a really cool inventor. I can believe his role is town.

-veerus' claim sounds like a riff on all the Half-Life themes but I guess it could be real. A big concern is that nothing here can be confirmed now. It's also part killing in a game that already has alot of potential ways to have people killed.

That leaves veerus or Isacc as last scum. I'm going to look over all their posts again next.

Let's see.

Gaping hole in this claim #1: Flavor makes more sense for Big Brother to have this ability instead of Winston Smith - given the rest of the roles, that's a good sign he's actually Big Brother.
Gaping hole in this claim #2: Town should NEVER use this ability, EVER, much less on a dead Mafioso (depriving us of the opportunity to read him for possible connections).

DIE.

(Yes, the massclaim can wait.)

Vote: Jahudo
LOCK ON: Jahudo

[Tarhalindur]

To Jahudo: Winston Smith worked for Big Brother when he removed records of people from history. More specifically, Big Brother said you didn't exist and Winston Smith (and the rest of the Ministry of Peace) did the work necessary to carry that out.

Also - thinking on it, for some reason I remember Winston Smith being Mafia in Nat's semi-open 1984 setup, so even if you're lying that might just be a scum role name.

Finally, the bigger point against your claim (how it can be a town ability at all) just doesn't add up to me. It's roughly the equivalent of claiming Brand (the Death Millerizing Ultimate in Mind Screw 3), in my opinion.

Of course, none of this matters at all, because as long as poptajo is town we DO have a town autowin here.

Step 1: We lynch Jahudo today, since his predecessors' inactivity is, by my read, the most likely explanation for the lack of Mafia kills the last few days, and (more importantly) dealing with him now lets us deal with any shenanigans that might result from killing him (say, Kinetic getting revived as a player somehow).

Step 2: I block Isacc today and no other town players (ESPECIALLY poptajo) use an ability).

- Isacc should not be able to kill, courtesy of me roleblocking him.
- Veerus, should he be scum, confirms himself as scum by killing (since Jahudo is dead, Isacc is blocked and thus can't be killed, and both myself and poptajo are all-but-confirmed)

The key consideration here is numbers: Even if veerus successfully kills, we enter Day 7 with 3 alive and a confirmed scum (veerus). The only way we can possibly lose here is if a second kill somehow occurs - and since all neutrals are dead, other townies won't be using abilities, and I know that my own ability does not kill Isacc (since I blocked him Day 2), this all-but-guarantees that the only killing ability that can successfully resolve is the Mafia kill.

Step 3: If Jahudo is Mafia and no shenanigans occured, we win. If shenanigans occured from the Jahudo lynch (read: if for any reason Jahudo is revealed Mafia and the game is not over), lynch Kinetic. Otherwise, lynch veerus (given his claimed Sentry Guns, ensuring the auto-win requires that he be lynched). This is the correct play regardless of whether or not I am alive.

Step 4: If I am dead (or poptajo is dead), the game is over with a veerus-scum lynch. Otherwise, I block Isacc again (once again removing almost all possibility of a Mafia kill).

Step 5: If the game is not yet over, lynch Isacc for the town victory.

This plan only loses under one of three circumstances:
1) Mafia other than Isacc has a bonus kill, or Isacc has a bonus rapidkill
2) Mafia has some way of getting a kill through my roleblock (either an unstoppable kill or my roleblock function being defective - the kill function is proven)
3) Populartajo is Mafia

I consider these circumstances unlikely enough that I am reasonably sure this plan is a town autowin.

[Tarhalindur]

Hold it.

Unvote

(very rare behavior for me after I've Locked On, but I need to think something through)

Need to think over what could happen if scum-veerus redirected my ability...

[Tarhalindur]

Oh, right, never mind.

If veerus is scum, he's the last scum and dies tomorrow regardless (no way out of that for him unless he can end the game first) ending the game in our favor, so a possible redirect overriding my roleblock doesn't matter.

If veerus is town, he doesn't use his redirect on me (because if he's town he wants town to win), so it doesn't matter that way either.

Veerus's claimed redirect does not affect optimal play.

Vote: Jahudo

[Tarhalindur]

Im not a lurky alpaca, mr. jackson. Im the dreaming goddess alpaca.
please, apologize.

I'm sorry, alpaca macanudo.

tar, so you dont want me using any ability? You have no idea if any of these abilities can be helpful to town?

If we don't know what it will do, it's a risky move that may upset the balance that at this point look like an auto-win.

I wish someone would unvote because Isacc has not claimed yet and he could come in and hammer here without claiming. I feel he more than likely the last scum and either a fake or real claim will help prepare people for tomorrow. Also I have questions for Isacc that need answering.

veerus, do you disagree with my post about you?

I know that veerus said he can't be night killed, but what about Tar?

Bleh, you might have a point on forcing an Isacc claim. My first thought is that it probably doesn't matter, since a) Isacc softclaimed a role with limited utility D3 (after I claimed blocking him) and b) an inactive Mafioso would be a very, very good thing for us (inactive Mafiosos don't generally use abilities).

Still, I can wait again and think things over, provided that you are lynched immediately should Isacc return and claim.

Unvote

Also, veerus claimed using an archangel ability (makes its target UNK as long as you are alive) on me previously (sometime D5, as I recall).

[Tarhalindur]

What did you think of my idea that my power could have been used for good to prevent prinnys from ever existing? Doesn't that sound like a town power?

Not at that price, no.

Even with Prinnies in the game, I'd say that ability should never be used if it's on a town.

Also, why the HELL are you fighting against an autowin if you're town? It shouldn't matter to you if you're lynched so long as that lynch occurs in the course of a town autowin (see my play in Mafia 75, endgame play in Mafia 68, etc.) because you still win the game with us.

[Tarhalindur]

Actually, let me make this perfectly clear:

Jahudo, unless somebody can show that we need to unconfirm a confirmed player (read: poptajo) or you sincerely believe that Mafia have something like a rapidkill floating around, there is absolutely NO REASON to try to clear yourself. In addition, with your claim there is NO WAY I will ever consider you cleared.

You die today, period. It's just a matter of how long to wait before the lynch.

[Tarhalindur]

Im not a lurky alpaca, mr. jackson. Im the dreaming goddess alpaca.
please, apologize.

tar, so you dont want me using any ability? You have no idea if any of these abilities can be helpful to town?

Not enough of an idea, and since we have an autowin WITHOUT Dreams of Reality I'd rather not take a chance on introducing a spanner into the works with a bad Dreams choice.

[Tarhalindur]

Isacc's claim fits with his softclaim D3. It's not enough to clear him, but that doesn't matter at this point given the existence of my roleblock.

Jahudo, why do you keep fighting if Tar's plan gives as an autowin even if you are town?

I daresay it's because he's caught scum trying to wriggle his way out of the noose.

Can we lynch him now, please?

Vote: Jahudo

[Tarhalindur]

Isacc, poptajo - will one of you hammer, please?

[Tarhalindur]

Funny thing was, I was leaning towards you being the last Mafioso as soon as Jahudo came up town (mediocre claim), but I still would have pushed for veerus lynch today then your lynch tomorrow, just to be safe. Not much point now, I'd say, since town wouldn't concede like that and we know we're out of neutrals.

Heh. If I was modding, I'd just call the game after Isacc's last post (since he just conceded) assuming there were no hidden scum left.

However, on the off chance MM doesn't do that...

Vote: Isacc

[Tarhalindur]

<Construction> Each day, you may build one of the following inventions on another player: Sentry Gun, Dispenser, Teleporter. Only one invention may be on a player at a time. You may only have one of each invention out at one time.

-Sentry Guns will kill the first player not of the constructee’s alignment that targets them each day.

I obviously sentry-gunned myself N1. Though I was kind of surprised to see that a "construction" ability went through before a kill ability.

Tar, why were you so convinced I was scum?

So Nat allowed you to target yourself despite the exact wording of the ability... AND had the sentry guns activate on the day the action was used instead of the beginning of the next day? Wow, that's broken in half. Bad Nat, no biscuit.

Also, I see Richard Nixon was a) using Futurama flavor and b) metalviggable.

Speaking of that metalvig:

"Time, Dr. Freeman? Is it really that time again? It seems as if you only just arrived. You've done a great deal in a small timespan. You've done so well, in fact, that I've recieved some interesting offers for your services. Ordinarily, I wouldn't contemplate them, but these are extraordinary times.

"Rather than offer you the illusion of free choice, I will take the liberty of choosing for you...if and when your time comes again.

"I do apologize for choosing what must seem to you an arbitrary imposition, Dr. Freeman. I trust it will all make sense to you in the course of...well...I'm really not at liberty to say. In the meantime. This is where I get off.

"...We'll see about...that."

Good evening, Gordon Freeman(from Half-Life). The vorts saved you from the G-Man, but now…they want your help.

You are the

Townie Robo-blocker

.

Active Abilities-You may use one a day.

<Gordon Freeman, PhD.> Each day, you may target a player. Using your crowbar, you will prevent them from doing whatever action they planned on doing before. However, if you were to find something metal, you might just dismantle it instead.

Passive Abilities

<Unforseen Consequences> Don’t lynch the mod.
<Mutual Fiend> You know the G-Man(from Half-Life) is in the game and is not town-aligned.

Town Win Condition: You win when all threats to the town are dead.

[Tarhalindur]

Btw, in case you wanted to know more about me.

"Dralnu! I thought I killed you!" Teferi yelled.
"Well, maybe you should think twice before trying to kill the undead."
Teferi thrusts a finger towards you. In that instant, the world disintegrated. In the air, you hear a laugh.
"If I can't kill you, I can at least contain you."

Welcome, Dralnu, Lich Lord(from Magic the Gathering). Once you summoned undead to serve you. After your death, however, you ended up here. Now you want to escape. But, first...

You are the

Mafia Jester-Of-All-Trades

.

Factional Abilities
<Mafia Daytalk> You may speak to Number Six(Kinetic) and Amante(forbiddanlight) at any time in this quicktopic(http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/8yxCs2g8U3dsA). Additionally, you know they are mafia.
<Mafia Kill> Each day, Number Six may choose a player to kill. In the event of his death, you gain the mantle of control. Then Amante if you die. Your kill method is "Skewered". If you commit the kill, you cannot use any active abilities.
<Mafia Safeclaim> You know Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir(from Magic the Gathering) is not in the game.
<Mafia Falseclaim> Once in the game, you may send me a name and a list of abilities, I will create a fake PM with those abilities.

Active Abilities--You may use one a day.
<Counterspell> Once during the game, you may target a player. Any actions that player takes that day will fail.
<Think Twice> Once during the game, you may target a player. You will learn that player's rolename.

Passive Abilities
<Mystical Teachings> All Active Abilities are restored upon your death.
<Careful Consideration> You may continue to speak in-thread and use abilities as long as you are in the graveyard.
<Mutual Fiend> You know that the G-Man(from Half-Life) is in the game and is not town-aligned.

Mafia Win Condition: You win when the mafia are the last faction remaining or nothing can prevent the same.

I like this role. A lot.