Mini 746: Speed Dating - I've Had The Time Of My Life (Over)

[Kmd4390]

I'm here.

[Kmd4390]

I was waiting for that...

[Kmd4390]

Vote Zwet

for speaking French.

[Kmd4390]

knowing that they will lose if they are lynched but wanting to help the town anyway.

I think you need to read the win condition again.

[Kmd4390]

Are we going to give him a hard time about this all game long?

Yes.

[Kmd4390]

knowing that they will lose if they are lynched but wanting to help the town anyway.

I think you need to read the win condition again.

I think

you

need to read the win condition again.

FoS: Kmd

I read it again. Still says the same thing.

[Kmd4390]

Then you should know that if a townie leaves with a scum, then the townie will lose.

Are you getting this from your role PM?

Unvote, Vote Caboose

In the OP, it says don't leave with married people.

Hint: I don't see that in my Role PM.

Asking Mod via PM if my paraphrasing of it is ok.

[Kmd4390]

Asking Mod via PM if my paraphrasing of it is ok.

I win when all of the scum are out.

Then you should know that if a townie leaves with a scum, then the townie will lose.

Are you getting this from your role PM?

Unvote, Vote Caboose

In the OP, it says don't leave with married people.

Hint: I don't see that in my Role PM.

Asking Mod via PM if my paraphrasing of it is ok.

Exactly.
What's with the vote?

Exactly? You are saying that town loses by leaving with scum. I do NOT see that in my Role PM at all.

[Kmd4390]

I have a theory, but it's probably best we stop talking about it.

Unvote

[Kmd4390]

Would the mod pair a townie with a scum at the same table?

Well.... yeah.

But didn't he say that if your table partner is lynched, you are lynched too? How can you be expected to defend someone who might be scum?

If you think the person at your table is scum, you defend them today and lynch them tomorrow. We rotate tables.

[Kmd4390]

Why? Seems simple enough to me.

[Kmd4390]

Can I share a table with Zwet next?

[Kmd4390]

Wanna torture me?

[Kmd4390]

Please, get a room.

Come on. It was there.

Oh, and

Vote Jebus

Not random.

[Kmd4390]

This is hurting my head...

Need help understanding something?

[Kmd4390]

What did jebus do wrong?

Look at his post history.

[Kmd4390]

And I've got a riddle for the Countess:
It's pink and you can see it underneath my avatar. What is it?

Oooo. Oooo. I know! I know!

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and:

OK. Why?

Read his post history.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote

[Kmd4390]

Unvote

Backing off before the pressure starts, eh?

Lurker vote. Lurker showed up. I unvoted.

Mrs.

Nice slip. <Hammer removed> *Sigh*

Now we have a claimed power role at a table with Zwet. You have to think that's probably the scum's target tonight anyway though.

Bah.

Vote Zwet

That's hammer. Don't think that I don't expect to get flak for this tomorrow, but I play to win more than I play to survive and this is the right move for the town. Zwet is scum. I'm almost sure of that. The power role will be the scum's target tonight anyway, so why would we take a chance elsewhere for our lynch? Lynch scum along with the scum's preferred target. It's the right move whether people agree or not.

[Kmd4390]

10 - During twilight, everyone may talk until night falls.

So why did it come up as a good idea to hammer zwet without even letting him say very much in defense?

And how the hell did we get to hammertime so quickly?

He straight up slipped with the "Mrs." post. There's no defense to a slip other than "oops. Not what I meant." We already gave him that:

Oops. I meant miss. Sorry. I'm sort of distracted tonight.

And I explained why it's ok lynching him (or "letting him leave") with a power role at his table, so I won't do that again unless someone wants clarification.

Also, we should take full advantage of this twilight rule. Just DO NOT give opinions on who you think is town right now. But feel free to discuss anything scummy about reactions to Zwet's slip or even my hammer. I'm going to look at Zwet's slip now to see if anyone was slow to react. If they were, and he flips scum, there's a likely partner. If he flips town, look at players who voted him.

[Kmd4390]

Can't we wait to lynch Zwet until Zwet is at a table with another married person though? Or at least at a table with someone who doesn't have a PhD?

I don't like this argument.
We have to lynch scum. Which means that we have to lynch whoever is at the scum's table.
Any one of us could come up with an argument like yours (even scum) as to why they shouldn't be lynched -

I always win as town, trust me

, or

I have a Psychology degree

, whatever. In my opinion, that is completely irrelevant. It smacks as an attempt to save your own life, and ignoring the main issue here - lynching someone who could very well be scum, and helping the town (Or in this case, the honest single people looking for a date!).

Now, the 'mrs' thing is a very difficult situation. It could be an honest mistake, as zwet has claimed. Or it could be a scum slip-up. Whilst this means I don't think we should lynch based on this evidence alone, it does go a way towards it.
Sometime when I have time, I'll try and do a post-by-post of Zwet's play so far and see what comes up.

Possible partner.

[Kmd4390]

EGL claimed a certain pro-town power role.

Possible partner.

[Kmd4390]

If Zwet is town, BSG and The Countess get scumpoints.

I realize my hammer looks bad if he is town too. =/

[Kmd4390]

I did say I expect to get flak...

[Kmd4390]

He straight up slipped with the "Mrs." post. There's no defense to a slip other than "oops. Not what I meant." We already gave him that:

Well what do you expect to get as defense of a typo?

"Oh, it appears I've pressed the wrong key on my keyboard. Mis-typing something so vital is a null tell at best - anyone, town or scum, could possibly be prone to doing it"

And I should probably recount the votes to confirm hammer...

Exactly my point about no defense being available for a slip.

And I'm near positive that my vote was a hammer.

[Kmd4390]

How many do we need to hammer?

I counted five votes on Zwet, I'm pretty sure with 12 alive that 7 is a hammer. So L-2.

Yikes.

Hmm. You are actually right. I was confusing this with another game and assuming that we voted WITH people at our tables.

Now what we have to ask ourselves is this. Was his "go town" post sincere, or did he realize what you did and want to try to pass off a "go town" post?

[Kmd4390]

So I wasn't dead. KMD, why did you act like you hammered me?

Thought I did. I was confusing the rules with Double Head rules. With those rules, my vote would have been hammer.

[Kmd4390]

Actually, BSG would have been hammer...

[Kmd4390]

What I was thinking was that we voted with the players at our table (which is NOT true btw). 4 votes x 2 would be 8 and a lynch.

I thought I was hammering. And if it was L-1, I would still be willing to hammer. I think that was an actual scum slip by Zwet. I still think he is scum. That's why I haven't unvoted.

I understand the votes on me. =/ I did say I expected flak for the hammer, and to find out it wasn't really the hammer just makes things worse.

[Kmd4390]

We win if we're lynched and the other person in our table isn't married, right?

No. When all the married people leave.

[Kmd4390]

I'm a jester!

That's not helpful...

[Kmd4390]

In an attempt to get this game moving again, I'll make a quick post.
I will admit that some of zwet's more recent posts have almost made me regret defending him. However, I stand by my point that I think his twilight post was genuine, and I believe he is town. Whilst this doesn't confirm that Kmd's hammer was a scummy one, I think it's quite likely.

What does everyone else think about this? We need to talk again.

Still think he's scum.

[Kmd4390]

Pre-Game

I don't think I said this in the rules but:
Each hour is precisely three weeks if no lynch is reached during this time the lovers move one place. There is no action stage inbetween this stage.
If a lynch is reached within the hour an action stage will take place.

Max says we move one place, but I don't see where it says which way.

Ie. does someone at table 2 go to table 1 or table 3?

I'd assume 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4, etc.

[Kmd4390]

Can anybody make a convincing case on zwet?

K.

‮
srenil-eno sselesu stsoP-
.emag eht dnatsrednu ton ot demialc-
(.ylsuoireS .yrotsih tsop sih daeR) .emag eht ot gnihton ot txen sddA-
.xiferp deirram a gnimialceman yb mucs gnieb ot dettimdA-
...sseltnioP .retsej demialc-
.esac "nwot si tewZ snosaer" a rof pu llup nac uoy naht erom s'ti tub ,taerg ton s'tI

[Kmd4390]

It shouldn't show backwards. Looks normal on my end.

But yeah, if it's backwards to anyone else, molest has it mostly right. Except that it's in reverse order...

- Posts useless one-liners.
- Claimed to not understand the game.
- Adds next to nothing to the game. (Read his post history. Seriously.)
- Admitted to being scum by nameclaiming a married prefix.
- Claimed jester. Pointless...
It's not great, but it's more than you can pull up for a "reasons Zwet is town" case.

[Kmd4390]

EBWOP: Only my sig should show up backwards in 225.

[Kmd4390]

Do they lean more town or scum?

I think they lean more scum than town. That makes them scumtells.

[Kmd4390]

It's not a question of leaning. Your "case" isn't solid, you have at worst a complete WIFOM statement and at best a criticism of my playstyle. A scumtell is something solid that you can back up with behavior, actions, etc.

How is it WIFOM?

What have you done that is more townie than scummy? And my case IS backed. I just don't want to quote your entire meaningless post history. Maybe 10% if that has actual content.

Your only "scumtell" is 5, and I've already cleared up that it was 100% a joke.

Hey guys, he was joking. He MUST be town.

[Kmd4390]

The Mrs./Miss. thing is pure WIFOM. Even you can't deny it. And why are you putting words in my mouth? I never said that it made me town that I was joking.

WIFOM, maybe. Well, yeah. Ok, it's WIFOM. It comes down to whether we believe you or not. I'll give you that, it's WIFOM.

And I'm not putting any words in your mouth. You straight up said that you "cleared it up that it was 100% a joke". If that's not supposed to be a defense, it's yet another completely useless point to make.

[Kmd4390]

I'm pretty sure it was a joke, but it's still a scumtell.

This.

[Kmd4390]

Kmd - Do you think that zwet is a worthwhile lynch for today

Yes.

and do you honestly think he is scummy enough to risk lynching our doc to do so today?

Doc is dead tonight anyway.

[Kmd4390]

EGL, do not respond to this or elaborate on it.

Check if the PhD is just for flavor or if you are really a doc.

[Kmd4390]

Ok. I have reason to believe EGL probably is NOT a doc. I'm not claiming doc here, but based on my role, I don't think he is the doc. I'm not going to say more than that though.

[Kmd4390]

Ok. I have reason to believe EGL probably is NOT a doc. I'm not claiming doc here, but based on my role, I don't think he is the doc.

I'm not going to say more than that though.

[Kmd4390]

The last few posts confuse me. Are people debating the viability of the doc claim, or am I missing something?

Ok. I have reason to believe EGL probably is NOT a doc. I'm not claiming doc here, but based on my role, I don't think he is the doc. I'm not going to say more than that though.

[Kmd4390]

Is asking why you're not going to say any more yield any information, or is this a situation of trying to draw blood from a stone?

I only will do so if I have to claim.

counter claims would already have occured.

Why so sure?

[Kmd4390]

Vote: Zwetschenwasser

L-1, folks.

Explain. Now.

[Kmd4390]

Yes.

You'd better be scum...

[Kmd4390]

I'm not scum. I think EGL is.

And you are so sure of this that you will suicide lynch instead of waiting until tomorrow?

I haven't seen a case on EGL...

[Kmd4390]

KMD is hinting something. I'm going with that for now.

I'm not saying he's scum. Just probably not doc.

[Kmd4390]

Is it possible that he neither is the doc nor lied?

[Kmd4390]

I don't think so.

Think harder.

[Kmd4390]

He's a nother powerrole? Then why fakeclaim doc?

He didn't fakeclaim.

[Kmd4390]

Unvoting Zwet was a waste of my time.

vote: zwet

So Zwet, you've just chosen to be lynched in the name of laziness?

What a waste of a lynch, imo.

Why the backpedaling AFTER the lynch has already happened?

[Kmd4390]

Mod

, was EGL a doctor, or is that just flavor?

[Kmd4390]

To me that looks like flavour... He was a doctor but not a doctor "role"

Exactly what I thought when he "claimed".

[Kmd4390]

I thought your reason for doubting the doc idea was down to your role, Kmd?

Basically, I figured he had doc flavor, but wasn't a real doc.

I guess it doesn't hurt to explain why I thought this.

When I thought we lynched Zwet before, I sent in a night action. I was told by the Mod that my role wasn't what I thought it was. It was just flavor. So it made me think EGL's role was probably just doc flavor too.

I didn't reveal this right away because it's basically claiming. But yeah. That was my reasoning for thinking EGL wasn't really a doc OR lying about his role.

[Kmd4390]

I thought your reason for doubting the doc idea was down to your role, Kmd?

Basically, I figured he had doc flavor, but wasn't a real doc.

I guess it doesn't hurt to explain why I thought this.

When I thought we lynched Zwet before, I sent in a night action. I was told by the Mod that my role wasn't what I thought it was. It was just flavor. So it made me think EGL's role was probably just doc flavor too.

I didn't reveal this right away because it's basically claiming. But yeah. That was my reasoning for thinking EGL wasn't really a doc OR lying about his role.

Why couldn't you tell us this before?

Because I didn't feel I needed to basically claim. The lynch was happening anyway with what I gave. The only reason I did so now is because I could tell it was going to be a distraction.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, it looks like this a pure scum hunting game.

vote KMD

second on my list from yesterday.

Reasons would be nice.

Yes KMD has contributed a lot, but I'm not so sure he's exchange with Caboose in
post 333 is that pro town looking. I don't see how it would have hurt to ask EGL to
confirm his role with the mod, especially since you/KMD already made it clear that
you didn't think he was what he was claiming to be.

Because by doing so, I'd be basically claiming. I didn't want to do that.

Caboose, Although I agree with almost all of your post, I don't think that
we can say for certain regarding the first point that Jebus "knew" Zwets
would turn out to be town.

If we knew it for certain, wouldn't we all be voting him already? I actually think Caboose has a pretty good case. I'm interested in seeing Jebus's defense.

[Kmd4390]

Actually, it's not PHD related.

But anyway. If I had said, "My role isn't what I thought it was. It's just flavor. EGL should check his.", it would show more about my own role than I was willing to give up.

[Kmd4390]

He hammered Zwet early on in day 1. I found this action scummy in general, but even more so in a game where a single vote can kill 2 people.

Dropping the hammer is NOT a scumtell.

This post just annoys me. He is trying to get a potential scum lynched, however, he won't post any actual reasons for it. He has admitted his role is just for flavor, yet he denied to tell us this yesterday when the knowledge might have actually stopped us lynching a potential doc.

Zwet was the one who I thought was scum, not EGL. How would the fact that my role was just flavor STOP the lynch on "a potential doc". If anything, it would speed up the lynch on a less likely doc.

This was a big one. Unless you have a different win condition to nearly everyone else, your PM should be pretty explicit to what happens if you leave with scum. I also know the mod said that analysing win conditions is pointless, but I still find it interesting.

Yeah, mine says I win when the scum are gone, not that I win if I leave without scum. Not sure what else to say about that. It says what it says.

Could you please explain what this is? Can't find it on the wiki.

A attacks B. C attacks A. B and C are scumbuddies. Basically, OMGUS on behalf of others.

[Kmd4390]

@Kmd: Dropping a hammer is not in and of itself, always a scum tell. Dropping the hammer early, in game where there is still extreme doubt about the mechanics, and you knowingly kill 2 people at once, is.

Fair enough.

I personally feel that I explained it well enough. I was pretty sure Zwet was scum. And even if EGL was a doc, he'd have been dead that night anyway. I can't stop you from feeling differently though.

[Kmd4390]

Vote: KMD

You were obviously wrong about

KMD

(

Zwet?

) being scum, so why should we believe you about you being town?

Are townies never wrong?

[Kmd4390]

Vote: KMD

You were obviously wrong about KMD being scum, so why should we believe you about you being town?

Don't like the ad hom here.

What ad hom? And even if it is, what does it matter?

Sure, but your voting record is a scum tell as much as anything, and as far as I am concerned the burdon of proof is on you at this point.

So again, the case on me is voting for a townie, right?

[Kmd4390]

Vote: KMD

You were obviously wrong about KMD being scum, so why should we believe you about you being town?

Don't like the ad hom here.

What ad hom? And even if it is, what does it matter?

Sure, but your voting record is a scum tell as much as anything, and as far as I am concerned the burdon of proof is on you at this point.

So again, the case on me is voting for a townie, right?

Voting for two townies, and from what i understand, you hammered.

Ok, voting two townies on a single lynch is the case on me then.

And Caboose actually hammered.

[Kmd4390]

FOS: Caboose

then

For dropping a hammer?

[Kmd4390]

As Caboose and molestmeharderohhhhhhhyeahhhhhhhh know, I've been busy playing Marathon Day games (so much fun). Looks like I didn't miss a lot here, but I'm in several other games, so I'll be catching up on everything this afternoon after class. Basically, I'll have real content later.

[Kmd4390]

KMD's hammer at the time was not.

Show me where it's not well-reasoned.

I refused to vote off two townies and it's a negative point against me? Okay.

Yeah. Scum would love to stay off a wagon they know will be a mislynch when they know the lynch is probably going to happen without them, so they can make exactly that argument.

No problem, I suggest we start

looking at those who were in on the vote

, especially towards the end, and those who might be behaving suspiciously(ie defending the vote).

This would be a good start.

^Nice strawman

No, but not voting for townies doesn't clear you.

I agree with Caboose.

At the time of your attempted hammer, had it been established that there were no NKs?

No. That's why people thought EGL was a doc.

Vote: MonkeyMan

- I think that your way of looking could easily let scum off the hook and kill townies who were on the zwet wagon.

You don't think even one scum took the opportunity to push a double mislynch Day 1?

[Kmd4390]

Current Player Vote Count:
zwetschenwasser (5): The Countess, Jebus, BSG, Kmd4390, roffman, The Count, Zwetschenwasser, Caboose

Mrs.

That implies you're married. Actually it does more than imply. It necessitates.

unvote, vote: zwet

Made this vote and didn't say much to follow it. (I think I know who you are by the way.)

unvote
Vote: zwet

Mrs.

That, and the nameclaim before we even decided if it was a good idea or not. <_<

Agrees with The Countess on the slip and adds the timing to nameclaim as a second reason. Looks like a good vote. Questions the "hammer". Continues to push Zwet. Unvotes, but revotes next post.

Unvote
Vote Zwet

The penguins are jealous of your huge slip, as they don't even slip that hard over the ice. It's time to make them the number one slippers again.

And you're the one who was giving comments about my strange love affair, while you're married and present at a speed dating meeting. Talk about ironic...

I can see BSG's vote coming from either side.

Nice slip. <Hammer removed> *Sigh*

Now we have a claimed power role at a table with Zwet. You have to think that's probably the scum's target tonight anyway though.

Bah.

Vote Zwet

That's hammer. Don't think that I don't expect to get flak for this tomorrow, but I play to win more than I play to survive and this is the right move for the town. Zwet is scum. I'm almost sure of that. The power role will be the scum's target tonight anyway, so why would we take a chance elsewhere for our lynch? Lynch scum along with the scum's preferred target. It's the right move whether people agree or not.

Ok. I'm obviously biased, but here's my vote. I originally typed a vote right at the beginning and removed it. Considered the chance that a doc was paired with Zwet. Saw Zwet's post as a complete slip. Made the vote expecting flak because it was worth it if Zwet was scum.

The last few posts confuse me. Are people debating the viability of the doc claim, or am I missing something?

I've been thinking about it, and realised a rather startling fact. In this game, I don't think the mafia actually have a night kill. If they did, 1 mislynch followed by a NK would leave 8/9 people in the game, 2 or 3 of which could be mafia. Which, seeing as we lynch 2 by 2, is lylo. This makes me doubt the presence of a doc role in this setup, as the potential killing power of the mafia far exceed normal balance measures. Added to this zwet's actions, and I feel I have a compelling reason to vote off the entire table.

unvote, vote: zwetschenwasser

N.B. My numbers and percieved effictiveness of the mafia's supposed NK may be off. If you see any number fallacies that I may have made, please point them out so I may correct my assumptions.

A lot of reasoning here. Either scum overdoing it or town really thinking. Looks townie to me.

Hello all.

Did a quick read.

Zwet claimed scum. EGL claimed powerrole, which I don't believe.

vote: Zwet

Hmm. Looks like a textbook bandwagon vote. This is the first vote I really see as scummy.

Alright, then.

Unvote

Vote: zwet

I hope you're info is reliable, Kmd.

Ignoring Zwet's vote (:roll:), Caboose is next. Hammer vote. Relies completely on my "info" and seems to imply that my "info" said Zwet was scum. He looks townie overall, but this isn't exactly "well-reasoned" like roff seems to think.

Likeliness of scum based solely on the Zwet votes:
The Count
BSG
The Countess
Caboose
Roffman
Jebus
Kmd

[Kmd4390]

So The Count's vote on Zwet looked the worst IMO. Let's see if there is a case there.

Hello all.

Did a quick read.

Zwet claimed scum. EGL claimed powerrole, which I don't believe.

vote: Zwet

Ok, so this vote post was his first post. Looks like he just found the largest wagon, attacked the only thing slowing it down, and voted.

Alas, the Caboose is the scum! I stand beside you, BSG, 100%. I understand completely.

vote: Caboose

Read it.

No content until this. His last post. Calls Caboose scum with no reasoning. Just blindly follows BSG. I don't like this at all.

-Wagon'd Zwet
-Never backed the Zwet vote
-lurking
-No reasons to vote Caboose
-Blindly following BSG

Vote The Count

[Kmd4390]

You don't think even one scum took the opportunity to push a double mislynch Day 1?

I think it's very possible one might have done, but not certain - and I don't think they all will have done, even if one does.
It's very possible that one or more scum tried to make themselves appear pro-town by not following a lynch they know will turn out townie.
I don't think we should focus our efforts on a select group, but rather look at everyone.

I agree.

But the thing is, we had a double mislynch Day 1. What better place to start looking for scum than analyzing the votes on the lynch.

[Kmd4390]

KMD I can agree with your read on the count in 392,
but want to ask when you ranked Jebus in that post did
you take into account his back peddling after the lynch?
(Which happened before the lynched players' roles were revealed).

No, I didn't. Do you think Jebus is scum?

[Kmd4390]

Monkey, what made you switch from voting me to agreeing with me?

Nightfall, TBH, I forgot about all of that. Jebus looked townie with what I looked at, which was the vote itself. The backpedaling was pretty scummy though, and like I said, the lynch wagon was a place to start, not the only thing we should look at.

The Count, do you have a defense?

[Kmd4390]

I don't think he's saying you're a sheep in trying to advocate looking at vote counts - but you are when followed Kmd in voting for him.

Yeah well, that doesn't make me scum, unless you think the person I'm voting with is scum.

So if a townie makes a case, only town will place the second vote?

Crap logic.

[Kmd4390]

See my sig.

Will catch up next week.

[Kmd4390]

I'm back. What have I missed? And why is DGB here?

(I need to catch up still.)

[Kmd4390]

DGB you just claimed my role. I'm the Miller NK Immune Cop. I also can kill at any time, so if I were scum, I'd have won by now.

Really though DGB, I'm not scum in this game and you aren't a cop. Have you seen my case on The Count?

And I still need to catch up. That will probably happen tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

I don't think he's saying you're a sheep in trying to advocate looking at vote counts - but you are when followed Kmd in voting for him.

Yeah well, that doesn't make me scum, unless you think the person I'm voting with is scum.

So if a townie makes a case, only town will place the second vote?

Crap logic.

If a townie makes a pro-town case, then scum are less likely to promote it. Scum aren't going to want to see their side lynched. Good logic.

If a townie makes a seemingly pro-town case on a townie, scum will jump all over it.

If The Count is town and you are scum, there would be little reason for you NOT to want to see The Count lynched.

More often than not, townies vote town and scum vote scum.

Um. I have no words for this.

We're on page 18? Can someone point me to zwet's fakeclaim?

Actually, he kind of fakeclaimed scum and got lynched for it. I personally believed the claim.

We're on page 18? Can someone point me to zwet's fakeclaim?

This the one you're talking about?

There's that too.

-------------------------------

Will someone explain the DGB votes please?

[Kmd4390]

DGB's falseclaimed:
[*]Her "role" of "NK immune miller cop" sounds ridiculously broken.
[*]She claimed to have "no result" on N2.
[*]There aren't any NKs in this game, so I don't see how NK immunity would be applicable in this game.
[*]If DGB really is the cop, then what's the point of making her a miller? The only way that's possible is if there's a second cop, which sounds incredibly unbalanced.

Is DGB more likely to make an obvious fakeclaim as scum than as town?

DGB's scummy behavior:
[*]When I bring up the possibility of a mafia RB, which I believe is perfectly reasonable given her overpowered claimed role, DGB immediately accuses me of being the mafia RB for some reason.
[*]She bandwagons for no apparent coming into the game, which is starting to look like a bus to me.

I doubt a RB exists. I doubt any power roles exist (Nobody tell me otherwise. I don't want this post to be someone's excuse for claiming out of nowhere.) But do you honestly think DGB had scummy motives for calling you RB?

I can give you the bandwagon point. That's about it though.

[Kmd4390]

What makes it look like a bus by the way?

[Kmd4390]

DGB, thoughts on Monkey?

[Kmd4390]

And Monkey is just a scummy wagon jumper who wants to kill the doctor.

But if the cop is un-nightkillable, what do you need a doctor for?

I'll bet my last dollar that the doctor claim is a fabrication, and should be lynched promptly.

EGL wasn't a doc. It was just flavor.

I was right before on my no vote, and I'm sticking my neck out again on voting this time, so I don't get how I keep on getting called scummy.

You blindly jump any wagon you see.

--------------------

DGB, the mafia roleblocker is town? LOL.

[Kmd4390]

you all realize that kmd has claimed the same role?

Hahaha.

[Kmd4390]

The funniest thing of all is that I'm a survivor. You may want to let me live one more night, I have a one-shot nightkill that I can use to kill a townie.

I deserve a Darwin award, don't you think?

Love the reference, but:

I always say, "paraphrasing a townie PM takes minutes, but a good fakeclaim can take days."

[Kmd4390]

lol.

don_johnson - Yes, DGB's admitting that her claim of cop was fake. This almost certainly means she's scum.

Have you played with DGB before?

[Kmd4390]

Let me just say this behavior from DGB doesn't necessarily make her scum. Hell, it may even turn out to be good town play.

And did you see my quote tag?

[Kmd4390]

Caboose, guess I'm scummy.

I really don't agree with the case on DGB so far.

[Kmd4390]

I really don't agree with the case on DGB so far.

Hahahaha, ah ah aaaaAaAaAaaaaaaaa

HAHAHAH ahhahdhhahha *sigh* Hahhahah

What is it going to take?????

Pray tell, what is it you disagree with?

The case is pretty much your playstyle is scummy.

[Kmd4390]

I really don't agree with the case on DGB so far.

Hahahaha, ah ah aaaaAaAaAaaaaaaaa

HAHAHAH ahhahdhhahha *sigh* Hahhahah

What is it going to take?????

Pray tell, what is it you disagree with?

The case is pretty much your playstyle is scummy.

No, the case is pretty much DGB

fakeclaimed

cop.

RTFT

As scum, would DGB fakeclaim something ridiculous, get called on it, and say "I give up" any more than she would as town?

I hate to say it, but DGB knows how to play this game.

Future sig quote?

[Kmd4390]

I just don't see why she'd act so obviously scummy.

She'll come back and say, "X voted me right away. Y bandwagoned. Z defended. A did this. B did that. The scum are this, this, and that and we need to lynch them now.

Watch.

Kmd, I think you're overthinking this.

Overthinking what? That DGB hasn't done anything that would benefit scum more than town?

Yes.
It's my belief that she was trying to claim that, and use her playstyle to scrape her way through it as a confirmed town.
Note that DGB said herself that it was done without thinking.

She is far from being confirmed town. Just not a suspect yet in my eyes.

Also, Kmd - DGB is paired with The Count, whom I believe you had a case on earlier? We could always try and test your theories and lynch a scum.

Holy shit, how did I miss that? *Checks* You are right.

Unvote, Vote DGB

[Kmd4390]

Wait- y-you didn't just put my name RIGHT in a quote?!

Oops.

Forgot to change it.

[Kmd4390]

-I'm curious to see what DGB will say
-How caboose will react
-And whether the count will say anything at all.

Caboose is town.

Kmd is mafia 100%. He knew that I'm not mafia, so he was really afraid that I was setting up a trap he might fall into. With this in mind, re-read his contribution.

LOL. I'm scum because I don't think you are scum?

[Kmd4390]

I hope it isn't DGB's win con to leave with the Count.

Oh shit...

[Kmd4390]

Kmd, you're so scum. Why don't you do what I did and get it off your chest? You'll feel so much better. Don't you hate lying to people? I know I do.

Yes. I absolutely hate lying. So I won't fakeclaim scum. Sorry DGB.

However, if you want to see a scum claim from me, see Farside's Marathon Game. Now that was fun.

[Kmd4390]

Wow... yeah... my Jester post doesn't seem so stupid now does it -_-'

You were right, but the town can still win along with DGB which is why jester speculation isn't good. We can't talk ourselves out of lynches over it or scum will go over the top intentionally. Games rarely, if ever, end after a jester lynch in a closed setup.

[Kmd4390]

I'm getting weird vibes from KMD yesterday. Any rational person would've voted DGB after her claim. I think KMD knew she wasn't going to flip scum.

Vote: KMD

Actually, I took her claim as a joke. I think I made a post where I pretty much sum up my thoughts. Let me find it. (Also, I technically DID vote DGB..)

I just don't see why she'd act so obviously scummy.

She'll come back and say, "X voted me right away. Y bandwagoned. Z defended. A did this. B did that. The scum are this, this, and that and we need to lynch them now.

Watch.

^^^
There it is.

[Kmd4390]

I'm getting weird vibes from KMD yesterday. Any rational person would've voted DGB after her claim. I think KMD knew she wasn't going to flip scum.

Vote: KMD

Even if he were scum, how would he know that? DGB was a Jester.

Scum knew DGB wasn't scum. Not that she was a jester, but that she wasn't scum.

[Kmd4390]

I'm getting weird vibes from KMD yesterday. Any rational person would've voted DGB after her claim. I think KMD knew she wasn't going to flip scum.

Vote: KMD

Even if he were scum, how would he know that? DGB was a Jester.

If KMD were scum, I would think that he knows who his scumbuddies are. He might not have known that DGB was a Jester, but it looks like to me that he knew that she wasn't going to flip scum.

Did you see my response to this accusation?

[Kmd4390]

so, i take it kmd's counterclaim of the nkimmune cop was a joke?

Of course. I don't think we have a cop.

[Kmd4390]

Still here...

[Kmd4390]

I will read over and get back to you.

I look forward to this. The game needs it IMO.

[Kmd4390]

But I like making avatar bets. It's fun to see what people pick. Jath isn't very original though.

And, pretty much this:

I just don't see why she'd act so obviously scummy.

She'll come back and say, "X voted me right away. Y bandwagoned. Z defended. A did this. B did that. The scum are this, this, and that and we need to lynch them now.

Watch.

I thought this was what she was doing based on her normal playstyle. I saw no reason to think she was scum.

[Kmd4390]

I thought this was what she was doing based on her normal playstyle. I saw no reason to think she was scum.

How about the fakeclaim?
Was that scummy to you or not?
If not, why not?

No. It was so ridiculous and she gave up on it so quickly, that it seemed intentionally obiously fake. DGB, as scum, would not make an intentionally obvious fakeclaim.

I’m more confused than suspicious of your false hammer on Zwet.
Post 160 you said you had confused this game’s mechanics with another game where you “voted WITH people at our tables”.

@KMD: If you thought you had to vote with your tablemate, then did you believe that by voting Zwet you were forcing roffman to vote Zwet too? If so, why didn’t you ask for an OK from roffman before placing a hammer.

Yes. I thought roff and I shared a vote. I didn't ask for an ok because I was ready to vote. I don't normally ask for an ok before I vote, so I saw no reason to do so here.

Post 150 you thought you were in twilight and asked for people to take full advantage of the remaining time by discussing zwet’s slip and your hammer. If you still wanted to discuss these things, why did you try to end the day right then?

I was convinced he was scum and saw no reason to wait on lynching him. The same things would have been discussed Day 2 anyway, so discussing it in twilight wouldn't have hurt anything. When a mod allows discussion in twilight, I usually like to take advantage of that.

[Kmd4390]

I was confused by another game. It's as simple as that.

I was in another game (which is ongoing) where for the day it was in at the time, we were paired with a "head" and shared a vote. In this game, we don't share votes at our table. So confusion with another game and nothing more. The vote count had nothing to do with it.

[Kmd4390]

Jahudo, here:

DGB you just claimed my role. I'm the Miller NK Immune Cop. I also can kill at any time, so if I were scum, I'd have won by now.

Really though DGB, I'm not scum in this game and you aren't a cop. Have you seen my case on The Count?

And I still need to catch up. That will probably happen tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

NK Immune Miller Vig is Oman's title.

DGB claimed NK Immune Miller Cop.

I changed it up to match Oman's title a little more.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Monkey

I agree.

Anyone else gonna do anything for this game?

[Kmd4390]

Jahudo, Me, Myavatarshowssum1molestingamole, and don makes 4. L-1 at least. A claim would be appropriate.

[Kmd4390]

I'm fine with massclaim.

[Kmd4390]

I'm DCI Dixon.

Win condition matches Jahudo's and Nightfall's.

I'm a cop, but just for flavor purposes. So really, I'm just a normal townie.

Molestingtheunmarriedppl=1
Countess=2

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[Kmd4390]

No clue what it means. That's what it says though.

[Kmd4390]

Not sure I believe molest.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, here's a plan.

If everyone agrees (aka don't do this yet), molest (nice avatar) can check The Countess's win condition as true or false.

If it comes up false, we lynch The Countess with someone who just needs the married people to leave regardless of whether it's with them or not. If The Countess flips town, Molest is scum. If not, we figure out what to do with Molest later.

If it comes up true, we lynch Molest with the same conditions on a pair. If Molest is town, The Countess is confirmed. If not, we figure out what to do with The Countess tomorrow.

Sound good?

[Kmd4390]

Does at least one male and one female still have to be scum?

I'd say if we have to choose a male, Molest can check Nightfall.

[Kmd4390]

I'd say if we have to choose a male, Molest can check Nightfall.

LOL,
Of course you do.
You wouldn't pick yourself would you?

From my PoV, it isn't productive to check myself. And I see Jahudo as protown. That leaves you who I am having trouble getting a read on. If it was my own personal investigation, I'd check you.

Ok, here's a plan.

If everyone agrees (aka don't do this yet), molest (nice avatar) can check The Countess's win condition as true or false.

If it comes up false, we lynch The Countess with someone who just needs the married people to leave regardless of whether it's with them or not. If The Countess flips town, Molest is scum. If not, we figure out what to do with Molest later.

If it comes up true, we lynch Molest with the same conditions on a pair. If Molest is town, The Countess is confirmed. If not, we figure out what to do with The Countess tomorrow.

Sound good?

There's faulty logic here too. If Mole is scum, he should know who else is scum. If we ask (scum) mole to investigate a towny, he could could lie to us if the pair is town and win the game if we lynch them. If he betrays his partner and tells us someone is scum, he will look better in our eyes and likely make it till the end of the game on that one action still winning it for his team...

If Mole is town, then that's a whole nother story... but I'm not sure how much faith I have in that...

Good point.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I don't believe Molest and I think there's a good chance Nightfall, who is paired with him, is the other scum.

Vote Molest

[Kmd4390]

Molest, how do you plan to use your ability?

[Kmd4390]

Investigate someone's roleclaim and see whether they're lying or not.

Who do you plan to check?

[Kmd4390]

Unvote

I know which I think is more likely scum between the two, but it really doesn't matter which you check. I'll withold my opinion for after you have your results.

[Kmd4390]

on who?

[Kmd4390]

Could scum have a roleblocker?

[Kmd4390]

Maybe the count and countess have passive ability powers too.

This seems likely.

I think the scum team is either The Count and The Countess OR Don and Nightfall.

[Kmd4390]

Don,

molestargazer is with Nightfall
don_johnson is with Jahudo
The Countess is with kmd

4 To Lynch

How about this. We wait until Don and Nightfall are at a table together. If they are scum, we'll win. If they aren't, The Countess is probably scum with The Count so the game will continue and we'll lynch The Countess.

[Kmd4390]

How about this. We wait until Don and Nightfall are at a table together. If they are scum, we'll win. If they aren't, The Countess is probably scum with The Count so the game will continue and we'll lynch The Countess.

Or um, if your wrong we/the town loose.
In your example wouldn't it make more sense for me to sacrifice myself to take out the countess? (ie. A Nightfall/Countess lynch?)

Also I don't mind sacrificing myself for the better good of the town,
but I don't like how (or see why) I'm being singled out as the male to do so

What if The Count was town, The Countess is town, and Don is scum? If you are town, we'd lose lynching you and a town Countess.

I think that if The Countess is scum, The Count probably was too. That would mean it's less risky to keep her alive and lynch you and Don.

[Kmd4390]

-_-'

....So who exactly do you think is actually scum?

And why is it less risky to keep the countess alive?

Either you and Don or The Count and The Countess.

It's less risky because I think if she is scum, The Count was her partner and he's already dead.

[Kmd4390]

you are basing this entire strategy on the fact that count and countess are scum team

or

nightfall and myself. hm.

Because those are the most likely scenarios IMO.

[Kmd4390]

Actually, that would work too. The only important thing is that at least one of you/don is lynched. I wouldn't be against lynching you with The Countess.

[Kmd4390]

If I come up town you lynch Kmd/Mole?

Why not Kmd/Don?

[Kmd4390]

personally, i am okay with a countess/kmd lynch.

nightfall has been a null read for me. i think countess is scum, but am up in the air as to her partner. i would offer to go with countess, but i know i am not scum and would therefore prefer to take a shot at voting out the entire scum team. my other preference would be mole/countess. jahudo is at best a null read for me.

v/la until tuesday morning

And either of those lynches would give a hypothetical Don/Nightfall scum team the win.

Coincidence?

[Kmd4390]

i know i am not scum, so don/nightfall is absurd.

What about Nightfall/The Countess?

[Kmd4390]

I keep thinking back to The Countess and why the investigation failed. The easiest explanation I can think of is The Countess has a passive ability that blocks investigations. If that's so then she lied during massclaim and only scum would do that.

What are the chances she didn't know about her passive ability?

If scum have a blocking power I don't see why they wouldn't use it on mole in that situation regardless of Countess' alignment, but that seems like a random role for scum to have if mole is the only role threat to them and he can only use his power twice in the game.

They could have blocked Monkey too.

So I think this is another point against The Countess because I don't believe scum have a blocking power.
So yeah, I'm back to Countess/Nightfall.

I think Nightfall has to be lynched. I'd be fine with either The Countess or Don being paired with him.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not sure what is role is but I think he could have went away with his tablemate at anytime during the day? That doesn't seem like a risk to scum unless they've already been outed.

I was assuming he could have chosen his target.

[Kmd4390]

i know i am not scum, so don/nightfall is absurd.

What about Nightfall/The Countess?

seems like kind of an irrelevant question when i have laid out my choices already.

kmd/countess.

jahudo and nightfall are the two i wouldn't vote.

well. there you have it then.

And that brings us back to this:

personally, i am okay with a countess/kmd lynch.

nightfall has been a null read for me. i think countess is scum, but am up in the air as to her partner. i would offer to go with countess, but i know i am not scum and would therefore prefer to take a shot at voting out the entire scum team. my other preference would be mole/countess. jahudo is at best a null read for me.

v/la until tuesday morning

And either of those lynches

would give a hypothetical Don/Nightfall scum team the win.

Coincidence?

[Kmd4390]

Wow, that defense is pretty convincing. I may need to reconsider.

[Kmd4390]

i am not scum. theory debunked.

lol.

-A side note. If the countess isn't scum, potentially with the count, can anyone think of a reason the counts info was not revealed in his parting? It's bothering me for some reason...

^This is the scum team.

[Kmd4390]

Why is it impossible?

[Kmd4390]

I'm not scum... -_-'

Wow, that defense is pretty convincing. I may need to reconsider.

Seriously, are you guys even gonna try?

[Kmd4390]

They should be:

This Friday Tables Will Be Rotating Again

[Kmd4390]

I'm not scum... -_-'

Wow, that defense is pretty convincing. I may need to reconsider.

Seriously, are you guys even gonna try?

i am trying. noone is listening. kmd/countess. i think its the game winner. but, oh well.

If that's the case, you should be ok with lynching Nightfall/The Countess or Kmd/don.

[Kmd4390]

What do scum power roles have to do with who we lynch?

[Kmd4390]

I already said I'd be willing to off myself but I'd like to sacrifice myself to take out the countess who I believe is scum

This should be our lynch. If the game continues, Don goes next. Yes, I'd be willing to go Kmd/Don tomorrow to make that happen.

[Kmd4390]

Mod, can you resend my role PM please?

My inbox is full and must have erased it.

Jahudo, I must have misread it once. I'll let you know which time as soon as I can.

[Kmd4390]

Which time did you misread it? Before massclaim or after?

I think before. I'll let you know when I have my role PM again.

[Kmd4390]

I only win if married people leave. Doesn't matter if they are with me or not.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not sure what I did. Maybe I misread your post or misremembered my win condition.

The rest is definitely right though. DCI Dixon and cop for flavor, but VT for real.

I actually tried to investigate someone (Caboose I think) when I thought I hammered Zwet.

[Kmd4390]

He said this when he wanted to stop the conversation about win conditions and I'm wondering if you remember your theory KMD?

Yeah. I thought that Caboose was scum who was lying about his win condition. I assumed it was wrong because of the Mod's post about the situation, so I decided to shut up about it.

A Countess/KMD lynch is my top choice now. I still like the chances of Countess being scum and I don't see a DJ-Nightfall pair happening.

Would you lynch The Countess with Nightfall and then me with Don? If we did that, and I was scum with The Countess, the town would win. I'd be willing to lynch in that order.

[Kmd4390]

Mod

, if there is enough agreement, can we rotate tables early?

[Kmd4390]

Don, why are you not ok with lynching Nightfall/Countess and then Me/you. Do you think one of Jahudo/Molest is scum? If not, the town wins under this plan.

[Kmd4390]

By the way,

Vote: Nightfall

I'd definitely go for this if it got enough support. Then if the game continues, we could just lynch The Countess (and yes, I'd support that even if I was paired with her).

I don't expect Jahudo and The Countess to agree with this though, so I'll continue to push Nightfall/The Countess as the next lynch I want to see.

[Kmd4390]

Don, why are you not ok with lynching Nightfall/Countess and then Me/you. Do you think one of Jahudo/Molest is scum? If not, the town wins under this plan.

i tend to think the scum team is kmd/countess. like i said, we have no idea what scum abilities may yet exist. also, according to win conditions, if nightfall is telling the truth then that leaves him as a loser. capece?

Do you really have

that

strong of a town read on Nightfall that you refuse to lynch him with someone who you think is scum? Why not just play to

your

win condition and not worry about his.

And if I was scum with The Countess, why would I be ok with lynching her with Nightfall and myself with you.

I am actually VERY confident in a Don/Nightfall scum team right now.

[Kmd4390]

my statement was in direct response to your statement of town "winning". i am merely pointing out that we all don't win if the hypotheticals set forth are true.

I'm playing to my own win condition. Lynching Nightfall and The Countess today and then me with you tomorrow should achieve that win condition. You claimed the same win condition, so you should be ok with this plan. We don't need Nightfall's approval if the rest of us agree.

as i have said: we have no idea what scum abilities lie in wait(if any). so trusting you is not my preferred option.

Why do you keep bringing this up? And what power roles could possibly interfere with this plan? The only one I can think of is lynch immunity which would be a guaranteed win for scum anyway, so it isn't plausible that it could be in this game.

as opposed to before? i am surprised that your confidence wavered at all, given that you have been pushing the idea for quite some time.

It didn't. It's just gotten stronger since.

[Kmd4390]

KMD claims, if Don is scum and KMD is lynched with him KMD still wins?

This is true.

Wasn't it my idea? O_O'

Was it? 0_0

I'm getting more of a desire to lynch you now KMD.
Ref: your flip flopping win condition...

Not the first time I've screwed up in this game.

[Kmd4390]

I completely agree with MolestingTheCountsChildren on this one.

(Maybe I should rephrase that. 0_0)

[Kmd4390]

Jahudo, Don is paired with Nightfall. I assume that's who Molset was referring to.

[Kmd4390]

Clearly, no one wants to wait for tables to rotate.

Vote Nightfall

[Kmd4390]

Don, not if you can lynch me with The Countess. Then you'd win.

[Kmd4390]

Which brings me to the reason (I think) KMD and I put DJ/Nightfall to L-1. The countess didn't hammer so I see no way Countess is scum with KMD. I didn't think they were before, but now I am completely confidant.

Yeah. This means that if The Countess is scum, she is scum with either Don, Nightfall, or The Count.

She is NOT scum with me, Jahudo, or Molest.

[Kmd4390]

Countess, I didn't delete my PM. It sat in my inbox too long and got deleted because my inbox is full.

Jahudo, do the scum

have

to be opposite genders?

The no-hammer is a very strong towntell for The Countess. I don't know who she is (although I have a guess), so I don't know if she'd go for the bussing townie points. I guess it would make sense for scum to do so because the other option would be to lynch herself with me or try to rotate tables.

You know what? I actually think The Countess is probably town. Even if she were scum with The Count, she could have very easily gotten away with voting immediately.

I'm even more happy with a Don/Nightfall lynch now.

[Kmd4390]

Im interested to know who you think I am

I'll save that for postgame.

the problem I have with that reasoning is that it took a lot longer for my inbox to fill and whilst I can see you getting more PM's than me regularly I can also see you deleteing them more regularly.

I'm lazy and rarely delete.

In regards to scum being opposite genders, I would have automatically assumed they would be married together. However thats speculation on my part, I dont think it says anywhere in the rules that that is the case.

You think they are swingers? I was assuming they were here behind their spouses' backs which is why we were trying to get rid of them.

It may be, who knows, but if you're into that kind of stuff I suggest you go rounf the corner, the gay village is still open you never know you might get lucky

I took it to mean that this "speed dating club" is for heterosexuals. The "It may be" refers to same sex marriage laws of the fictional town/state/country, but that doesn't answer the laws of the speed dating organization.

Same sex marriage isn't what I was thinking. I was thinking what I said above. People are here cheating on their spouses.

[Kmd4390]

Oh i see. You think there could be scum-female from marriage A and scum-female from marriage B, or scum-male from A and scum-male from B.

In that case I don't know how they could know each others identity and we really wouldn't be playing mafia :/

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Fair point. The only way is if they came in together, and if that's the case, why not leave together? The only role that had that condition was DGB. And that's obviously jester, not scum. So you're probably right then.

[Kmd4390]

Well, we want them to leave because we are bachelors (spelling?) who are trying to hook up with chicks. We don't want married people ruining this. But if some of us can leave with scum, I guess not all of us care. Some of us just want to get some. But that doesn't make sense why they have to leave then.

Normal scum win condition is to outnumber the town. But why do married people who are at a thing like this want to outnumber the single people? They don't. They want to take someone home. So it would make sense for the scum to all be jesters. Based on everyone's actions, this isn't the case.

Fuck it. Let's just scumhunt and lynch who we think is scum like we were doing. I think that's Don and Nightfall.

[Kmd4390]

countess: it seems as though its up to you. kmd seems to be trying to portray our recent actions as though they aren't in fact scum hunting and that we should return to it. This feels like a misdirection to me. i don't see how kmd isn't scum here.

All I'm saying is that everything you are willing to do would give you the win if you are scum with Nightfall. It's a little convenient.

If you guys aren't scum together, I'll take a picture of a sock in my mouth and post it in the "Put a Face With a Name" thread.

[Kmd4390]

i am holding you to that.

Fine by me.

[Kmd4390]

honestly, jahudo, with countess voting her table partner this should be an easy decision. one of the two of them is most likely scum(if not both). mole can wait.

If The Countess was scum, why would she vote me? She couldn't possibly be more obvtown right now.

[Kmd4390]

honestly, jahudo, with countess voting her table partner this should be an easy decision. one of the two of them is most likely scum(if not both). mole can wait.

If The Countess was scum, why would she vote me? She couldn't possibly be more obvtown right now.

WIFOM. so are you saying it is not in scums best interest to appear obvtown?

By being lynched?

alright.

Vote KMD

If you were scum, then congrats. I never even suspected you.

[Kmd4390]

10 - During twilight, everyone may talk until night falls.

If The Count was scum, the game will continue. I want to say I was sure enough about Nightfall/Don that I almost ran a little Gambit here, but Jahudo's hammer interupted.

I was gonna claim cop (although it really was just flavor) with innocents on Jahudo/Molest and "no result" on The Countess. That would make Don/Nightfall scum by default. If I was right, it would win the game. If not, well I'd look like a dick.

[Kmd4390]

Mod, does this vote count?

Vote: Countess & Kmd4390

I don't think the rules state that we can vote a pair, so shouldn't this vote be for The Countess?

[Kmd4390]

Because she is listed first I mean.

[Kmd4390]

^^ why would you not bring this up earlier? exactly what was the gambit: let's lose the game?

It looks like Jahudo won if Nightfall's vote counted.

The Gambit would have been a sure-fire win if you and Nightfall were scum and people believed me. I was convinced enough that I was considering it.

[Kmd4390]

Double votes do not count

Kmd4390 (3) Don_johnson, The Countess and Jahudo

Nightfall (2): molestargazer, kmd4390

Not Voting (1): Nightfall

Unvote, Vote Jahudo

[Kmd4390]

Next post after the L-1 vote with no reasoning. Looks like a pretty obvious scum-hammer. Jahudo is scum. The Countess and I are both town. Let's turn this trainwreck around.

[Kmd4390]

Don, if this goes to tomorrow, you are our lynch. The Countess is town. If Molest is town, you are Jahudo's buddy.

[Kmd4390]

Really, Jahudo?

Sorry, but you're caught.

[Kmd4390]

unvote.

can you explain this please? layman's terms.

1)The Countess thought she put me at L-1.
-a)She was willing to accept her own lynch to lynch me.
-b)The Countess is now obvtown
2)Jahudo thought he hammered.
-a)This was the next post he made after The Countess's vote.
-b)He offered no reasoning and simply said "alright" or whatever it was.
-c)Jahudo is scum who thought he was winning the game.
-d)Jahudo has another buddy alive, or he wouldn't have hammered when he did.
-e)Assuming Jahudo's buddy is female, it's either you or Molest.
3)We lynch Jahudo today and you tomorrow, and town is guaranteed to win.

[Kmd4390]

hmm. so you originally lied about your power?

Who did?

I think KMD is saying he is a vanilla but at one time he thought about fakeclaiming Cop. It's a dangerous gambit, but that's all in the past.

Yeah, I almost did it until I was "lynched" and you became obvscum.

To avoid confusion, I am a VT and thought about fakeclaiming cop to get the lynch I wanted. I didn't do it though.

That actually reminds me of DHSDSM alpha. I was given the go-ahead to decide the game by hammering someone, but I didn't because I hadn't seen the vote count say I would be the hammer. I was scum in that game but I played it cautious because in the back of my mind I didn't want to think I was hammering when a misspelled vote didn't count.

It's the same here because we hadn't had a vote count in a while and people were trying to double vote. If I was scum, that would be at the front of my mind again.

Wait, what? In double head, you were scum and didn't vote right away. Here, you voted anyway. Are you saying that you were unsure and wouldn't have voted as scum? Then why do it as town?

Only KMD was in that game but he wasn't alive at endgame so here's some links:

I follow my games after I die. Not closely, but I know what happened.

There's no way I would try to hammer as scum unless I knew for sure it would be a hammer, as evidenced by that alpha game.

But as town I'm bored with trying to figure out who is scum so

I just wanted to end the game.

To end the game, you'd have had to double mislynch or hope The Count was scum. So if you thought The Countess and I were both town, why would you hammer? Are you claiming to not be playing to win, but instead, be playing to end the game you are bored of? If this is the case, request replacement now. Nah, you don't have to do that. You are scum, so it doesn't matter.

[Kmd4390]

I thought I was given the go-ahead to hammer since everyone else was voting for someone. I was the tie-break and I had to make a decision.

Then why not post reasons? If you were right, the game was going to continue into the next day. You already implied that you wanted to end the game though. So what made you think the game would end? Did you think you were lynching town or did you think The Count was confirmed scum?

Even though I haven't posted my notes, I have re-read this thread enough for one game and I still don't feel very confidant in mole/nightfall but that seems to be the only pair possible now that I know KMD isn't scum.

The only reason to "know" I am town is because scum tried to hammer me. That's you btw.

And I voted in that exact post because Countess and DJ had already made their cases and I trusted them being town. I had no one left to argue with but myself.

Still good to see reasons for the next day.

[Kmd4390]

1. In this game I didn't care if the double votes counted but I assumed they did since we are really voting for pairs. But I felt like I was the tie-breaker because everyone had made their suspicions known through votes.

As scum I probably would have PM'ed the mod to a vote count first, or at least to ask if I was going to be the hammer.

In hindsight, that would be the better move for you. I don't think you thought about it though. Why didn't you question Nightfall's vote when it first happened?

Better yet, why did YOU vote a pair originally?

Even better, what made you change from voting the Don/Nightfall pair to voting me? Don must be your buddy, right?

2. I didn't trust KMD when he forgot his win condition, which helped me transition from Nightfall to KMD. When I voted I was confidant that me/Countess/DJ were right about KMD being scum.

Ok, you addressed the switch. Why not bring this up when you voted? Why wait until you are likely to be called on it?

3. I don't have any notes to post from when I've re-read the thread.

Do you normally hammer as town without reasons when you expect the game to continue? Actually, you said you wanted to end the game. And you still haven't addressed why you thought ending the game at that time would have been good for the town.

[Kmd4390]

[qupte="Jahudo"]1. I wouldn't have needed a reason if I was right about you since we couldn't be scum together. I was prepared to accept blame if I was wrong. [/quote]

What? Bad logic.

2. I meant that I didn't want to wait a couple weeks for the table to shift and align you with mole. If you flipped scum I would not believe you could be scum with DJ so lynching mole next would be easy.

Why are we hearing this for the first time? And why couldn't I be scum with Don? Do I come off as someone who wouldn't bus?

4. Can we have an avatar bet over whether or not I'm scum?

You're sick of your avatar already? Btw, I've never even won an avatar bet before. I made one like what you are doing now once though. I was scum with Kirroha once and I was lovers with Amished, so we bet in our QT over Percy's alignment. I bet that he was scum knowing that I was wrong. XD

I know I should just shut up and accept my fate, but this is fun

That's a scum claim, right?

[Kmd4390]

1. As town I'm not worried about the repercussions of trying to hammer and failing. Maybe in the future I should be more worried.

2. Great, now I can't even go down with the person I think is scum? I'm letting you know in advance that if you want to play the WIFOM game here I'll play it right back. What does that even mean?

Again, why didn't you question Nightfall's vote when he voted? Again, why did YOU vote the Nightfall/Don pair as a pair and not as a player?

I like WIFOM games. /in. You had the choice to lynch either the Kmd/Countess pair or the Don/Nightfall pair. Now, your vote suggests that you thought you were winning the game. Because scum who is last alive is more careful and will explain their vote. Town would think a little and probably not vote in that post. And if they did, they'd explain because you voted Don/Nightfall before. You'd at least want to think. And you unvoted at a time where your buddy would be out of danger if you just unvoted and switched to me. And when you had the choice, you picked The Countess and myself. So you have to be scum and your partner is Don or you'd have had no reason to want to lynch Kmd/Countess over Don/Nightfall. So the WIFOM would indicate you and Don have to be scum.

It would have looked cool if you had flipped scum. Like, Die scum! And then you are scum.

XD. I guess so. Kind of reminds me of a time when SensFan hammered DarkCoffee or whatever his name was very early in Day 1 without a claim. Then Dark flipped scum. Sens went on to (kill me of course and then) win as scum.

1. No, this is a new thing for me.

lol, ok.

2. The hammer would have either lost the game for us or won the game for us, wouldn't it have? It really was an anti-town move. But look on the bright side, it clears you as town

Gives me an idea for a cool Gambit.

Yes. I was acting irrational.

I usually do as caught scum too. Hell, even as suspected town. I need to learn how to handle pressure. It's cool though. XD

I thought that with your combined effort you could have pulled off a Countess/Nightfall lynch like I totally wanted to do.

Yeah, that was what I was trying to get. You looked so protown, so it seemed like a guaranteed town win. Oh well, I didn't screw the town, so it's ok. XD

No.

Seemed to be. Are you telling me that as town, you are willing to be lynched and lose the game? Or are you that confident that Molest is scum?

[Kmd4390]

Because I was ready to show who I was siding. I was the only one not to do it. Regardless of whether anybody's vote counted, we had all decided which way to vote.

This explains why you voted Don/Nightfall more than it explains why you voted a pair and didn't question Nightfall voting a pair.

I thought I had caught 1 scum while knowing I had the chance to catch the other tomorrow. So yeah, I thought we could win the whole game that way.

Did you not read the WIFOM game? You are scum. This much is a fact. I use more WIFOM to find your partner, Don.

I agree. Someone who hammers without explaining the timing of the hammer in that post will look suspicious if 1 scum flips and the hammer expected it to happen because they were already publicly bussing by that point. That doesn't apply with me because I said Countess was town and I was voting for you. Even if I didn't give reasons, I think I made it clear I was voting you.

What I was saying is that if you are the last scum, lynching The Countess and myself would bring us to tomorrow, down two townies. You look way too suspicious to go into LYLO without explaining the hammer. So that means you aren't the last scum. You have a buddy still alive. Then when you vote Don/Nightfall, unvote, and choose Countess/Kmd as the lynch, it means Don is your buddy.

Both as likely since I was given the tie-breaker. I was the only undecided and until someone unvoted, you would want to convince me. I didn't need any convincing anymore, because I talked it over with myself and we both decided it was good enough to represent the people that gave me the tie-breaker.

You were undecided? You had voted Don/Nightfall before. You'd think there would be some reasoning with a vote for me if you were town who changed your mind.

I just checked your unvote post. You said you wouldn't mind leaving with Molest. Is this still the case? If so, prove it. If not, you have some 'splainin to do.

When I unvoted I had singled out mole as scum. You were voting along with him and had some suspicions on you because of win con. That's why I said the pairing looked more interesting than DJ/Nightfall.

I don't see this between the unvote and the "hammer". Ok, you mention a Kmd/Molest scum team in the unvote post. I stand corrected. New question then. Why are you voting Nightfall now? What makes me so townie? The only way I see myself as anywhere near confirmed is if you are scum who tried to hammer me to win the game, which is what your vote looks like.

I only wanted DJ/Nightfall because I thought it contained 1 scum and 1 town that was allowed to go home with scum. The only difference with Countess/KMD was I thought it had 1 scum and 1 town willing to sacrifice for the greater good.

You said you voted me for a connection to Molest. If Molest was scum, why was Don scum? Or were you thinking Nightfall was scum? Wait, then what made you switch to me? I'm a little lost on your suspicions.

If that's what you want to think, go ahead. You'll see I didn't think he was scum but I was willing to lynch him because his win condition allowed him to win if he went home with scum. That's a good reason to vote for someone paired with Nightfall-scum since I didn't want to wait 3 weeks for a table switch.

So you thought I was scum with Nightfall? What happened to the male/female pair thing?

I see what you did there, comparing me to scum. Hahahahaha, whatever town.

XD

I'll get back to this in my next post.

You'll "get back to" whether or not you were scum claiming. I think you are debating on whether or not to just get it over with. Trust me, claiming scum when you are going down is fun. You get to WIFOM the town into figuring out who your buddy is. For example, if you were to say you have 2 buddies alive and the game is continuing because of the pair mechanic, we'd believe you until we figure out that we need 4 to lynch, so the game would actually be over. Or if you said The Count was scum, you could trick us into looking for connections to him and you both after you flip scum and the game continues. There are a lot of options after you claim scum. It's not like it's game over at that point.

[Kmd4390]

Hillarious joke aside (XD), would a reverend normally be at something like this? And I'm pretty sure Molest is a tranny (male IRL, but female here. Hmm.). And maybe you were hoping for your little boys and were disappointed not to see any.

[Kmd4390]

Why just an FoS? Do you agree that he was most likely scum thinking he'd just won the game?

Tables are:
Nightfall/Don
Kmd/Countess
Jahudo/Molestingu

Not 100% sure on the vote count, but one was posted recently and not much has changed since.

[Kmd4390]

Just posting this here in case he's wrong. At the moment, I'm cast back into uncertainty.

I already know I was wrong. Jahudo is scum.

If Countess is Kmd's table partner, this is quite tempting to finish off if it's still in place.

You think she would take her own lynch like that as scum? I don't.

Guessing this is the post that caused the shitstorm. If this was intended to be a hammer.. I wouldn't call it a massively scummy action. I would have been tempted to do the same.
Doing it without any prior discussion, though, I don't like.

It's an attempt by scum to win the game. Any time you see a hammer with "alright", "let's see", "maybe he's scum" or anything like that in potential LYLO, it's a scum hammer.

Also, if he was a townie changing his stance, he'd have said why. And "wanting to end the game" isn't nearly what a townie would be doing with that vote unless he was throwing the game. Lynching scum would allow the game to continue assuming more than one scum left (which is the case with Jahudo's attempted hammer).

You seem very sure about this.

I am very sure. She was willing to take her own lynch to lynch me. Why would scum do that?

If I were scum, and Jahudo is, I could have very easily jumped on the wagon and finished the game when J thought he'd hammered - if I'd have voted, it would have been.

This would be a good point if you'd posted around that time.

I think this is just your playstyle, but I don't like how you throw accusations around like that.

I'm not throwing anything around. It's either Jahudo/You or Jahudo/Don.

Unvote
Vote: The Countess

..........

[Kmd4390]

We don't know that you were, so the defense isn't valid.

[Kmd4390]

That sounds like active lurking. This should be an easy decision for countess and nightfall.

Maybe you should self-vote.

[Kmd4390]

Molest, yes. (I checked this time. XD)

The Countess is not scum. If you don't want to lynch Jahudo, you should be voting Don or waiting for new pairs.

[Kmd4390]

Come on people, let's get our act together.

Nightfall

Jahudo is as good as caught scum!!!

Fix'd.

Btw, how is Nightfall scum?

[Kmd4390]

If Jahudo's scum, I'll lose. But... I'm going to die anyway. There's a chance I can still win without having to scrap through the rest of today and end up dying anyway.

Could you rephrase that?

^This.

I'm not sure I follow you.

[Kmd4390]

I asked the Mod about a 2 town, 2 scum endgame because I thought it would end as "happily ever after" because scum can't mislynch without a townie vote and town can't lynch scum, so town voting would be dumb. All we could do is No Lynch. Apparently, scum have some kind of ability that would win the game. I think Don knew that:

as i have said: we have no idea what scum abilities lie in wait(if any). so trusting you is not my preferred option.

[Kmd4390]

countess: it seems as though its up to you. kmd seems to be trying to portray our recent actions as though they aren't in fact scum hunting and that we should return to it. This feels like a misdirection to me. i don't see how kmd isn't scum here.

All I'm saying is that everything you are willing to do would give you the win if you are scum with Nightfall. It's a little convenient.

If you guys aren't scum together, I'll take a picture of a sock in my mouth and post it in the "Put a Face With a Name" thread.

<Insert countless hours of profanity here>

I had you pegged until Jahudo made a scummy "hammer" post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kmd4390]

Aw, shit.

Sorry guys.

Well played to you two.

Don't apologize. I f***'d this one up.

[Kmd4390]

Kmd, Guess right?

Not at all. Thought you were EK. But the way my gut said you were scummy and I couldn't figure out why is kind of explained by it being you.

[Kmd4390]

Did anyone discuss inter-lover?

After Roff (or whoever I was paired with first) ignored me, I forgot we could.