Mini 982 - The Mars Volta Mafia(Game Over)

[Incognito]

MARS VOLTA ROCKS!!!!!!!!

Also, I have no doubt that scum were given fakeclaims due to the fact that we can quote our role PMs

This is most likely true.

...so I had no clue this band existed before I joined the game (I joined because Kise said the setup was wicked).

How could you not have heard of Mars Volta? :O

vote: MafiaSSK

[Incognito]

I personally was planning on voting him before the game began since he's the only player in this game who I've played with before. The fact that he had the largest wagon on him already made voting him an even bigger bonus.

[Incognito]

unvote
vote: SaintKerrigan

since he seems to be practically begging for my vote.

Vote:Cove

Well it depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.

wut?

[Incognito]

confirm vote: SaintKerrigan

[Incognito]

lol, Icog, Post/Vote restriction?

No restrictions here. Just confirming a vote on obvscum when I see one.

MAJOR FoS: Cove, Parama, My Milked Eek

Parama, why do you assume SaintK is really claiming Jester?

[Incognito]

I'm screwing around

tbh

.

(insert Satin Doll Showdown "truly and honestly?" joke here)

[Incognito]

I was actually FoS-ing you for not voting SaintK but that works too.

I've recently gotten into the habit of making all my votes huge, so that should explain the large font to you. camn's been rubbing off on me in multiple ways.

[Incognito]

Incognito: Are you also FoSing me for not voting for SaintKerrigan?

I was, yes. Whether you want to take that FoS seriously or not is up to you though.



@animorpherv1: When have you and me played with one another?

[Incognito]

MafiaSSK: Who are you and what have you done to MafiaSSK?

Finally, I know a few people have at least touched on the subject but @all- How much do you know about Mars Volta that may be helpful in this game flavor wise.

I know a good deal about Mars Volta since I own every album they've made along with the Tremulant EP, and I've listened to their At the Drive In stuff as well as Omar's solo stuff. But as you mentioned, I suspect that the scums were probably given claims right down to the T. Thus, I don't think we'll be able to gauge as much from people's claims as we might be able to in some other kind of game. The best thing to look at will most likely be in-thread behavior.

[Incognito]

I can accept that Parama's thing might've been a joke. It was definitely a borderline case, imo.

I like the Cove wagon.

unvote, vote: Cove

[Incognito]

Cove, how many times have you seen a scum claim scum as early in the game as SaintK did here?

[Incognito]

SaintK seems slightly townish to me so far - the scum claim was very clearly a joke, and I personally wanted to exploit it as a good jumping point for reaction-gathering, which it seems to have done. I like his reaction to the pressure, and I liked his vote on Cove because I did think Cove's reason for voting SaintK was a bit of a stretch.

I think it's even better as scum to make a joke out of it in RVS, then they have options, based on the response, about whether to continue with it, or just push it off as a joke and forget about it.

You're implying causation here and only thinking about this from a scum's POV without seeming to think about the flip side of all this - how it would look from town's POV. The smiley and everything else about what SaintK said should have been a pretty decent tip-off that it was a joke.

-~-~-~-~-~-~

MafiaSSK seems ok to me so far. I don't completely agree with his case against Raivann, but it doesn't strike me as scummy.

His first post on page 3 he opens with "Oh, the game opened" - What is the point of typing that ? I guess to assure us all there was no lurking taking place.

Next he says hi and jokingly votes SSK. So he is taking a stance by moving the popular SSK wagon onward, but also takes care not to offend.

Then he ends by answering the question that has nothin to do with scumhunting.

I could see that.

SaintK's wagon was equally as popular as the MafiaSSK wagon at that point. I can't see why Me=Weird as scum would deliberately choose MSSK's wagon over SaintK's wagon at that stage, which leads me to believe M=W's vote was indeed random like he claimed.

True. Would like to see his current thoughts about game-related stuff in his next post.

@NavyCherub:

If you agree with Raivann's case, why aren't you voting Me=Weird?

@Doombunny9:

Who's scum?

Subconsciously Saint feels bad for being scum so he confessed in a joke to purge himself of his upcoming evil deeds.

Is this serious or joking? I couldn't tell with the smiley at the end.

[Incognito]

Vote: Raivann

for pushing his RV after the RVS is clearly over. Other than his case on Me=Weird, we have seen very little out of him.

To the second half of this: can't we say the same thing about a bunch of other people in the game?


@Raivann: I did consider that. But I don't think that would happen during early, largely random wagons.

But is said joke more likely to come from town or scum?

fwiw, I think it's more likely to come from town.

[Incognito]

animorpherv1, I'm familiar with the fact that SSK has a tendency to lurk but as of yet, he hasn't done so here. And from what I understand, he's trying to get rid of that bad habit as evidenced by his posts in this thread. What do you think of SSK's posts here so far? Why push a policy lynch when the player you want to policy lynch hasn't been doing the thing you're trying to police?

Cove, why did you immediately switch your vote from Doombunny to Zajnet in the same post when you were voting them for the exact same reasons?

[Incognito]

I don't see the distancing thing. Are you talking about distancing from an argument or distancing between scum buddies?

[Incognito]

Cove, I'm still not seeing it...

@Icognito-Why are still voting Cove ?
I am actually leaning town on him.

cuz I'm currently not?



Doombunny's giving me conflicting reads. I thought his opening post was mildly townish since speculating on possible scum fake-claims is something I think scum would be more likely to try to keep to themselves than noting out in the open like he did, but I haven't liked much of anything else I've read from him.

[Incognito]

Only got time for a quick post, and I haven't read the last page in detail yet but...

NavyCherub, I never said anything about MafiaSSK being town. The only person I've said seems townish to me so far is SaintKerrigan.

[Incognito]

Cove, that makes infinitely more sense. I can see what you're talking about now. I wouldn't call it distancing, but he's basically calling two people scummy for thinking something is suspicious but then he claims that he himself is suspicious of that same thing as well. It's like he's trying to keep his options open.

Zajnet, your comments on this?

The last line of Doombunny's post is incredibly unsettling.

^^^this. I continue to dislike pretty much everything Doombunny's said after his first post.

Explain? I have already named Zaj as one of my scumpicks (and some of his later posts haven't been helping him) so I would be ok with a Zaj lynch if he was lynched today

(Although it's still too early to tell)

You didn't add the bolded qualifier in post 116, which I think is the reason why Parama didn't like your post. I too don't like how you seem ready to lynch two people already when the game's still young, and we haven't heard enough from a bunch of different people in this game. Do you typically just give up on scum-hunting this early in a game?

I was gonna switch my vote to Doombunny after reading the last page but then NavyCherub voted him, and I don't understand how he interpreted the stuff related to me, MafiaSSK, and animorpherv1 the way he has. It makes me feel less comfortable with a Doombunny vote right now.

Hm. Let's do this:

unvote, vote: Zajnet

---

@animorpherv1:

Ok, whatever. Let's drop the MafiaSSK thing. What are your thoughts about everything outside of MafiaSSK?

[Incognito]

NavyCherub, well yeah. Like you said, the focus on MafiaSSK was for the wrong reasons, and I put my two cents in by showing why animorpher's attack didn't make sense. I'd generally do that in any situation, so I don't see why those connections would seem strange.

I can't say, as the only thing I've done this entre time is defend myself from idiots.

How about ya try in your next post then?

@Doombunny:
Upper portion of my post was all about Zajnet:

I wouldn't call it distancing, but he's basically calling two people scummy for thinking something is suspicious but then he claims that he himself is suspicious of that same thing as well. It's like he's trying to keep his options open.

Filtering through his isolation now, I also see that he's spent a lot of his recent time in defense mode too. Also, large wagons are where the real fun begins.

[Incognito]

animorpher: why a lyncher of all things?

FoS: ani

either he reread the thread and needs to learn to read, or he didn't and lied about it.

Why not just vote 'im?

[Incognito]

Because how far he goes after the lynch. I don't see town push

hard

a lot.

Meh. I've certainly seen some tunnel visioned townies in my day as well as some hard-pushing scum too. I'm guessing your experience has been different from mine.

It's page 7. Nothing really incriminating has come up yet.

Thoughts on Zajnet and Cove? They've both accumulated some non-random votes so far, so I don't think you can really say there's nothing that's been incriminating so far unless you absolutely disagree with everything that's been said about them.

@Doombunny:
I haven't referenced Zajnet any time prior to that post because he hasn't really done much in the thread for me to talk about. And prior to that, my focus was on Cove who I've since backed off of. I don't think a formal case against Zajnet is necessary right now - if I did make one, it would probably be something like 1) keeping his options open, 2) playing defense as opposed to offense, and 3) being a bit lurky so far. That's about it.

Unvote

thoughts later, I don't have time to thoroughly read the game right now.

Actually ani, cove may be thinking of Newbie 928, and he's pushing for a lynch on you more than me. You haven't reread, have you?

FoS: ani

either he reread the thread and needs to learn to read, or he didn't and lied about it.

Slight mix-up with another game.

Vote: animorpherv1

So. What

did

your read turn up exactly? Your vote on ani seems completely based on page 6 stuff.

[Incognito]

btw, in that Eat Poop You Cat game in Mish Mash, my original sentence was a line from a Mars Volta song: https://www.mafiascum.net/mith/epyc/epyc.php?c=18. Cool, huh?

[Incognito]

I meant not incriminating as in I'm not ready for a hammer. They both have scummy points to them, but I'd rather go on for a while first.

Okay... but you never mentioned anything about whether you agreed with the points or anything; I had no clue you thought they had "scummy points to them" because you never said so. What points do you agree with so far?

[Incognito]

Not really compelled to move my vote right now. I've definitely seen Zajnet peeking back at this thread, and he's been making posts in the only other game that he's in right now.

I want MafiaSSK, My Milked Eek, and NavyCherub to do more stuff - definitely feel like I have absolutely no preliminary reads on any of them at this point. Somebody should vote Zajnet to L-2 while we're waiting though. That's when the real fun begins.

-~-~-~-~-~-~

@Me=Weird: Did you mean to vote Zajnet in your last post? You didn't bold anything, but you said you wanted to vote him.

[Incognito]

Is it that much trouble to just look at my posts in isolation and find the questions yourself? This isn't a face to face game where I might vocalize something, and you might forget what I said, ya know.

[Incognito]

@ Incog: What's your opinion on Raivann? Also, are you sure Zaj is in only two games? I know I'm in another one with him, and he's just about as active there as here?

I don't really have much of a read on him right now, and I don't even know if I fully understand your case on him. Can you break it down for me? Cuz I've read it, and I feel like it has something to do with his stance on Doombunny but maybe there's something I'm missing. Dunno.

Me=Weird is bugging me mainly because of his continued reference of an ongoing game. I want to say something about how his comments could be really alignment-revealing here when being looked at from a certain perspective, but I feel stuck because he's referencing an ongoing game, duh. Maybe I'm just reading too much into what he's saying though.



My Milked Eek: I'd like to read your case on animorpher when you get around to typing it.

Vote can stay where it is right now. I'll try to have more content tomorrow - I just started a summer job on Monday, and I'm trying to adapt to my new life schedule.

[Incognito]

@ Incog: He's pushing Doombunny fairly hard yet his vote is piggybacking on someone else's case (and the other person is also the largest bandwagon). He's also less interested in defending himself from my case on him than he is in attacking me for it.

Ok, the only thing I find scummy about what you've mentioned here is the last part about him attacking you after you made a case against him since it could be an attempt to discredit you if he's scum and you're town. The other stuff doesn't seem scummy at all - I happen to agree with a bunch of things he's said about Doombunny and to me, it looks like Raivann is just continuing to scum hunt while keeping his vote on the person he finds scummiest (Zajnet). I'd find it more scummy if he just plopped his vote on Zajnet and kept checking in to confirm his vote or to just point out that Zajnet is still lurking, etc, but he's not doing that.

And I don't see the piggybacking thing either - Raivann agreed with a point that was brought up against Zajnet and decided to vote him for it. Zajnet didn't really do himself any favors after the vote, which added more credence to it, imo.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~

Does anyone here have a meta on animorpherv1?

@Eek:

Why the unvote? Also, what are your thoughts on NavyCherub? He's also a firm town read?

[Incognito]

Also

mod:

could you give MafiaSSK a prod too?

[Incognito]

Sorry for being away for a bit.

Looking at the last votecount, our deadline's in like two days. We need to converge on a lynch fast. I would pretty much support any one of the following lynches:

Zajnet, animorpherv1, Doombunny, or NavyCherub

Zajnet is currently the largest wagon and still hasn't done much in his last few posts. I'm fine with leaving my vote where it is right now.

Me=Weird is probably town, btw.

[Incognito]

SaintK, he only has five posts and not one of them gave me a pro-town vibe. There was also that weird stuff about a MafiaSSK, animorpherv1, and me triangle that I still have absolutely no clue what he meant by. And his explanation didn't instill much confidence for me with respect to his alignment.

[Incognito]

Zajnet should claim in his very next post.

[Incognito]

I think Zajnet should only claim his result if it is actually productive to do so, and the only way I could see the result being productive is if he targeted Sando last Night (assuming Sando was even the NK).

That said, does anyone else find this to be weird:

Sando, the Tremulant (from De-Loused in the Comatorium), of the White, sacrificed himself Night 1

If Sando "sacrificed himself", then I'm not even sure he was the NK, period. What if Sando had some other kind of role that sacrificed itself for someone else instead?




Will post updated thoughts soon.

[Incognito]

That works.

vote: animorpherv1

He should probably claim, btw.

[Incognito]

The only thing that bothers me about the Zajnet thing is that assuming Zajnet is telling the truth here, that basically means that animorpherv1, someone who took a decent amount of heat D1, performed the kill. Assuming the scum get to choose who should submit the kill, I find it odd that they would send him to submit the kill when usually scum send out their most under-the-radar buddy to do it since he or she is the least likely to get tracked. Though, now that I think about it some more, it's also possible that if Zajnet is telling the truth, the scum figured that sending out one of their scummiest players to perform the kill wouldn't be so bad since they might have figured that since Zajnet claimed Watcher there's a chance there might not even be a Tracker in this game.



Either way, the current Zajnet wagon is dumb. We should first work out animorpherv1's alignment Today and then worry about Zajnet on later Days if he's still around. Not the other way around.

[Incognito]

You really think FoS'es actually do something? I just assumed they were there for informational purposes.

[Incognito]

Actually, you might be on to something. I'll bite.

FoS: animorpherv1

[Incognito]

I really think you need to UnFoS first.
Also what made you change your mind so suddenly, Incog?

I read over the rules real quick and noticed that the mod added them to the end of the Special Game Rules rather than somewhere else like the General Rules or something like that. That made me think that maybe it really does serve an in-game purpose.



@animorpher: if you're a VT, why aren't you pushing for Zajnet's lynch right now?

[Incognito]

/seconding the role PM request.

SaintK: Why the weird wishy-washyness?

[Incognito]

Just. Lynch. animorpherv1.

If the guy had even an ounce of town cred, I might be more skeptical of Zajnet's claim and might be more willing to consider the potential of a Zajnet fake-claim.
But animorpher has little to no town cred.
He seems disinterested in this game.
He's barely analyzing stuff.
Even if he DOES manage to somehow flip town, I'd still consider it a positive to lynch him since he hasn't done a thing to help us out.

As for gambits, it's silly to worry about them at this time. Today's lynch decision really is a no-brainer. Zajnet gets placed waaaaaaaaaaaay on the back burner for now.

[Incognito]

So... nothing happened with the FoS stuff. I'm fine with lynching ani even if he doesn't post his role PM.

[Incognito]

Right. So Parama and Zajnet are probably town. That leaves {Netopalis, SaintK, Me=Weird, Papa Zito, Doombunny}.

Funneling through animorpher-scum's isolation, I'm noting that he primarily pushed for a MafiaSSK lynch because of "lurking" very early on, but I'm finding it extremely difficult to determine how serious he was about that. He also switched his vote to Cove/Netopalis for a more serious vote at a time that the Cove-wagon was beginning to pick up a decent amount of steam. Therefore, I'm leaning towards thinking Netopalis is likely town.

End of Day 1 vote count:

Vote Count:

Parama(0) -
Incognito(0) -
Cove(0) -

animorpherv1(1)

- Cove

Zajnet(1)

- Incognito
My Milked Eek(0) -

SaintKerrigan(1)

- Raivann

Me=Weird(1)

- SaintKerrigan
NavyCherub(0) -
Papa Zito(0) -

Doombunny9(1)

- NavyCherub

Raivann(7)

- Zajnet, Doombunny9, My Milked Eek, Papa Zito, Parama, animorpherv1, Me=Weird

Not Voting(0) -

With Zajnet and Parama looking like likely town, MME flipping town, and animorpher flipping scum that pretty much leaves Doom, Papa Z, and Me=Weird. And I suspect there was probably at least two scum on the wagon. Of the three, I get the worst vibes from Doombunny right now.

So.

vote: Doombunny9

[Incognito]

Yeah. I should probably write a case. It's been awhile since I've written a good one. Brb.

[Incognito]

My general impression of Doombunny's posts is that he has a tendency to exaggerate certain things to make them seem worse than they actually are. I think this is something that's more likely to be done by scum because scum's just looking for mislynches rather than trying to figure out people's alignments.

Examples include:

This response seems town. I don't know how to elaborate on that, it just does.

So you think it's town... But you don't know why its town?

This question seems redundant, and I don't really see what it was meant to accomplish other than to try to make Zajnet look bad here when realistically what Zajnet said here was something that doesn't strike me as scummy. Zajnet's wagon was growing at this time, so if Doombunny's scum, this could have been his segue into an eventual vote on him to make it seem like his vote had some basis behind it.

I admit it guys. I'm not a vig of any kind. I was hoping ani would be like "bah! Go scum!". Evidently though, he decided to act dead. Which could be incriminating, he could have not posted because he didn't want to give away his partner(assuming he's scum). IMO, town would have gone "No!! Go town!". I'm sorry if you guys lynch me for this.

...I think I'm happy with my vote.

This is a HORRIBLE excuse not to mention a bad reaction test. both town and scum would play as normal until the actual death scene. Not to mention scum would have no idea if you were legit in the first place. And now you think Ani was scummy for this? Explain the logic behind this.

This seems like more exaggeration. I've certainly seen cases where players have posted "KILL:" so and so to try to draw out a reaction from someone else, and I remember reading one game where the gambit actually worked though I can't remember which game it was. Either way, I can't really see why Me=Weird's explanation is more likely to come from scum than town here. Maybe Doombunny can explain?

Damn... you're still having an issue with answering questions.

Rai- Both me and SK asked you questions, are you planning on answering them any time soon?

I'm keeping my vote on Rai for the time being.

Not answering questions isn't always scummy. It largely depends on what type of question is being asked. It's usually something that's more not helpful or sloppy if anything. But again, this seems like an exaggeration to make Rai's actions look more scummy than they actually were.


Anywho, I think this is at the very least a good place to start for Today.

[Incognito]

Ninja'd.

@Zajnet: I was focusing on the people on the Raivann-wagon when I wrote up that last line. I do plan on looking at SaintK more closely Today though because, from memory, I wasn't crazy about his push on your wagon when animorpher really was the obvious lynch Yesterday.

[Incognito]

It seemed to me that M=W was just "gambiting" just so he could look like he was contributing to the town. If you recall the closest M=W did to scumhunting at the time was metaing and of course you can't forget the "Whoops, I don't actually have a him" thing so the gambit just seemed too out of place, especially when it did little other than make people wonder if he had a daykill in the first place.

From what I've seen in past games, I don't think scum generally do things that draw attention to themselves the way M=W did with his daykill "gambit", and I don't really see how a gambit of that kind could be something that is just being passed as contribution. And realistically Me=Weird's gambit actually did draw out a decent reaction from ani-scum anyway; we now know that he probably did intentionally go into hardcore lurker mode.

If I remember correctly, SK's questions were valid and I still have NO idea why Rai didn't answer them. Also, what you call exaggeration I call my writing style. Go figure.

Maybe they were, but after reading Rai's reaction around that whole thing, I really fail to see how anyone could have seen him as anything but town. If I had been around, I would have almost certainly been defending the crap out of him especially since I had a weak town read of him prior to that. He premature claimed (which is something I think is more likely to come from town than scum), he pretty clearly seemed to have no idea about role PM quoting (which again, I think is something a hypothetical scum would have in mind straight from the start especially if the scums were allowed to talk during pre-game). I realize you're not the only one who's guilty of attacking Raivann for his actions around that time, so I do plan on reading that area in more detail.

@Papa Zito:

What is it you're not liking about me?

-~-~-~-~-~-~

If what we have is a vote-shift, then I guess I should be voting Parama?

unvote
vote: Parama

[Incognito]

I think you might want to change to Seraphim if you want to vote Doom, Incog.

I'll wait to see how Seraphim registers it.

[Incognito]

I don't at all see how a final vote count analysis of Day 1 that landed on a town mislynch could be considered focusing on the "wrong thing". What do you think of Doombunny?

[Incognito]

That's at Papa Z, obviously. Not the soft-claiming Neto.

[Incognito]

I don't put as much stock into this particular Day 2 as you do apparently. I mean, yeah, don't get me wrong - there's definitely some juicy stuff in there like the stuff I mentioned about SaintK earlier, and yeah, the counterwagon could certainly have scum in it. But when you've got the equivalent of a guilty result on someone, I think it's just as likely that the scums could be in the actual scum wagon as they could be in the counter one.

And too "early" is not a good reason to not look into Day 1 stuff either; I've found that scums are oftentimes more sloppy early on than they are in the later game.

[Incognito]

Exactly what Parama said.

[Incognito]

Uh. I'm assuming you meant to vote for the actual Papa Zito?

[Incognito]

Is that vote count/FoS count correct? Cuz if it is, my head's gonna spin.

[Incognito]

All right... so either we have a double voter/double FoS-er or maybe when someone reaches a vote total, it's impossible for them to lose the maximum number of votes they've accumulated so far.

Lemme try something.

unvote

[Incognito]

Mod:

Can we get a new vote count please since it's a new page?

[Incognito]

Well, let's see what happens now that I've unvoted. If Doombunny stays at 1 vote, then it's my second hypothesis.

[Incognito]

Oh you're right. But then SK never reached 4 votes either even though Papa Z and Zajnet (who, one of which, we think is a double voter) voted him.

[Incognito]

vote: Parama

-----> Doombunny

FoS: Me=Weird

[Incognito]

And by Me=Weird, I mean SaintK lol.

[Incognito]

In response to SaintK's stuff...

a)

I don't really see why your alignment information would come back as "town", "anti-town", or "neutral" when town alignments at least have been classified as "White". Why wouldn't the alignment info you receive come back in the same form? Also, what was the exact result that you got about Zajnet's and your own alignment?

b)

I don't at all see why you wouldn't just claim Yesterday - I mean, yeah, if you're telling the truth you're pretty much lining yourself up to be an NK target, but according to you, you had a surefire "anti-town" result on someone about a Day before what looked to be potential LyLo. Assuming ani flipped White, how likely did you think it would be that you'd actually be believed come Day 3?
and

z)

did MME give you the present investigation that you plan on using Tonight?

Looking through MME's isolation, I'm noticing that he didn't really mention much about you, which could lend support to your claim. But as your quoted role PM mentions, your alignments weren't guaranteed to one another.

-~-~-~-~-~

Would like to see Me=Weird pipe in about anything, btw. He's been silent since Day's start even though he's posted elsewhere on the site.

[Incognito]

SK, I don't really get why you'd doubt your sanity at that point. It just doesn't make much sense to me.

Me=Weird, we're all dealing with the vote shifting. That's not an excuse to lurk. I'm eager to see your eventual analysis of Doombunny.

[Incognito]

Maybe because I'd gotten a one-shot alignment investigation from MME? Two cop-like abilities in the same game hints at the possibility that at least one of them isn't sane. The mod not confirming sanity lends further suspicion in that direction.

Fair enough. Didn't you and MME discuss this kind of thing during N1 though?

Fine. I'm neither Cop nor Mason. However, I received a message from the mod last night that informed me that Me=Weird is town. I suspect that it was sent as a function of his role.

Okay, this is probably true. I got one of these on Night 1 that MME is town. (so at least we know it's sane)

Not liking this at all (Papa Z's part; don't really know what to make of Neto's part just yet). I've filtered through your isolation, and I see absolutely no indication that you received an innocent result on MME. Did you breadcrumb anything? Do you have a history of breadcrumbing results as an info role in past games?

Plus, it seems all too convenient that you claim that you got an innocent result on a dead guy who we all now know was town anyway.

Generally the only things I really liked of your scumhunting today were the things you said about Incog.

He scolded me for something dumb. What in particular did you agree with him about?

[Incognito]

Well, even if nobody does so, it doesn't really prove anything.

What do we even have so far?

Zajnet

- claimed one-shot Watcher. Seems confirmed by the fact that ani, one of his two claimed watch results, flipped scum, and he claimed to have seen Sando targeting Parama during Night 1 too.

SaintK

- claimed some kind of unconfirmed Mason, sanity-challenged Cop who got

another

investigation from his Mason buddy MME. o' course, MME can't confirm any of this; the one thing that looks good about this is SaintK's role name fits the bill since it matches the other band member of Mars Volta (Omar and Cedric). But we've already talked about how the scums probably have fake claims to the T.

Papa Z

- claimed some sort of PM-ed investigation from Night 1 on MME. nothing backs this up.

Netopalis

- claimed some sort of PM-ed investigation from Night 2 on Me=Weird. the quick, initial soft-claiming while the wagon formed on M=W backs this up a bit.

It's just really hard to believe that the town just has all these investigative ishes floating around all over the place.

One thing I've been pondering though: where are these PM-ed investigations even coming from? Can they ALL be trusted? If SaintK claims that MME had the power to send out investigations, was he the source? If MME was, then doesn't Netopalis' claimed innocent investigation on M=W conflict with SaintK's own claimed investigation?

[Incognito]

Right. And that brings up another important and interesting question: SaintK, did you check with the mod during Night 2 to see if you could maybe use two investigations at once?

[Incognito]

unvote, vote: Me=Weird

-----> SaintKerrigan

This doesn't at all mean that I'm feeling better about Doombunny, but the more I think about SaintK's claim, the more issues I have with it.

Right. And that brings up another important and interesting question: SaintK, did you check with the mod during Night 2 to see if you could maybe use two investigations at once?

Yes, I checked. I can only use one or the other.

So now I don't get why you would use your investigation to investigate yourself rather than just using the investigation that you claim to have gotten from MME on someone else. I mean, yeah, I could see the importance of you trying to figure out if you're sane or not but realistically if you really doubted your sanity, you could have done other things that would have been BETTER tests than investigating yourself with your own investigation.

For example: if you really had a problem with the result you got on Zajnet using your

own

investigation, you could have just used the investigation that you claimed to have gotten from MME last Night to check to see if it does indeed verify your initial result or not. To use your own investigation on yourself just makes absolutely no pro-town sense to me especially if you checked with the mod to verify whether or not you could use both at the same time or only individually. It makes plenty of pro-scum sense to me though.

-~-~-~-~-~

One other thing that we need to keep in mind about these floating PM results from the mod is this: if a person who's pro-town is sending these things to people for use, we should keep in mind that the pro-town person could easily have mistakenly chosen a pro-scum person to send the investigation to. So that's a HUGE reason why Papa Zito is by no means cleared especially coupled with the fact that he got a result on a dead guy that he didn't even seem to lean one way or another on. He could very easily be scum who just decided to come out with that knowledge so that he might be considered cleared. It doesn't work that way. That said, even though the same logic applies to Neto, I'm more willing to believe he's likely town because of the soft-claiming; in fact, the only way I can really see Neto as scum is if Me=Weird is scum.

[Incognito]

...wait, what? That's some weird stuff there with the vote...

Something changed about it?

[Incognito]

Well, we already said that there was a vote shift. In order to vote the person you want to vote, you have to vote for the person underneath the person you want to vote for in the vote count. The only weird thing is the vote that stays with Me=Weird no matter what. Maybe it's just there because he's weird.

[Incognito]

This game is getting bogged down is speculation and voting mechanics.

Can we start scumhunting again?

You say this like you're completely incapable of swaying the direction of conversation on your own. And I haven't been scum-hunting?

What do you think of my SaintK vote?

@Me=Weird: Quit telling us you're going to reread and just do it already. kthx.

[Incognito]

SaintKerrigan brings up a good point about the investigation stuff. I'm slow sometimes, sorry. It's not often that I get investigative roles, so I kinda forgot about that whole figuring out "which one is the sane one" thing.

unvote

for now.

Going down to the shore this weekend, so I'll probably be posting again by Monday evening.

[Incognito]

Mod:

I unvoted before.

I feel like voting Papa Zito especially after looking back at Papa Z's isolation and following along with Me=Weird's case against him, but I'm really uncomfortable with the fact that he's currently being voted for by Doombunny who I'm still getting bad vibes from. Also, I'm kind of struggling to see who could potentially be a hypo Papa Zito-scum's buddy at this point.

Anyone getting the idea that a mass claim might be in our near future? I wouldn't mind trying to figure out the mod PM stuff especially if someone has that information at their own disposal.

[Incognito]

Nobody else has thoughts on mass claiming aside from SaintKerrigan?

Parama's probably town but some of his analysis in post 636 is horrible.

Doombunny is town IMO. Early on he had Ani as his top pick.

Extremely bad reason to call someone town especially when you consider the fact that his vote wasn't ever even on animorpherv1 throughout Day 1.

Also, not defending SaintK here, but nowhere did SaintK say anything about not wanting to place a vote on the Raivann mislynch-wagon in that post that you linked to of his. He called dibs on the hammer, which pretty much says the exact opposite of that.

Incog has inside info on the N1 actions because he was first to suggest that Sando was some sort of BG (IE knew maf didn't target Sando)

Right. Because the mod himself didn't imply that kind of info in his cut-scene. /sarcasm.

Incog play the ignore SK game. Just for being of the wagon. When SK had full intention to hammer but didn't. VCA please gtfo.

This point I'll give you because I probably should have included him in my analysis, but realistically, I was more concerned about the people on the wagon because narrowing it down like that helps me focus my read much much better since there usually IS at least 1-2 scum on every mislynching wagon. Yes, there's usually an off-wagon scum in the mix too, but I felt strong enough about my Doombunny read that I figured he was probably the on-wagon scum and so I placed my vote on him.

-~-~-~-~

Anywho, I kinda feel like we're spinning our wheels here at the moment. I'm NOT willing to lynch any one of the following people right now:

Parama, Netopalis, Zajnet, Me=Weird

I'm probably fine with lending my vote to either one of a

{

Doombunny, Papa Zito

}

wagon - I think either lynch would clear up a lot for me, but I think a Doombunny-lynch is probably the more likely of the two to hit scum. I didn't like SaintKerrigan much earlier, but I'm having second thoughts about him. His play here is beginning to remind me more of his town play than his scum play, and I rather liked his responses to me with regard to his claimed role.

[Incognito]

Ok, so I missed that vote on animorpher by Doombunny. Either way, that doesn't matter all that much - that vote was placed on like page 7 of a Day 1, and, if you notice, he didn't exactly push a case on animorpher nor did he prod him and probe him further to try to figure out his alignment. Those are the kinds of things I'd probably give at least some town credit for if they seemed genuine; just having a vote on someone doesn't cut it.

And... you completely missed the point of what I said before. I specifically said "this point I'll give you", which means you're probably correct when you say I could have included SaintK in my analysis (since he technically was going to be the hammer). When I said the following:

I was more concerned about the people on the wagon because narrowing it down like that helps me focus my read much much better since there usually IS at least 1-2 scum on every mislynching wagon.

I was just talking about groupings that help my mind look into things more clearly. I personally just really like grouping people into "on the wagon" and "off the wagon" when performing end-of-Day analysis because it helps me focus my attention a lot better. You may not like my method, but I find it to be useful and I'm not going to stop doing it just because you think it's a contradiction or just because you think it doesn't work or some other such thing.

[Incognito]

Catching up with what I've missed:

I was willing to give SK the benefit of the doubt because his play

was

beginning to remind me more of his town play than scum play, but he's made two completely terribad votes in a row on people who I think are very likely to be town at this point. It's beginning to look like he's just trying to create confusion or sow the seeds of doubt on anyone and everyone who's not him.

Going with this:

vote: Me=Weird

----> SaintKerrigan

It's probably SaintKerrigan/Doombunny, tbqh.

Looking back at Incog in iso I noticed the only case he really built on me was that I tend to overexxagerate things (A weak point in itself) and "bad vibes" so @Incog- Are there other reasons you're voting me or is this it?

That, the voting analysis, and process of elimination. A lot of other people just

feel

town, so that helps with narrowing things down for me. And when POE begins to help me circle around people who I think legitimately feel scummy, then I'll put more stock into it. If I'm getting a town vibe from the people that POE lead me to, then that's a bit different and that'll usually make me reconsider my thoughts about the whole thing. That hasn't been the case here.

-~-~-~-~-~

It looks like not enough people agreed to massclaim and with the deadline fast approaching, it doesn't seem like we'd be able to get to it in time anyway. Tomorrow would probably be a really good time to consider it though especially if we hit another scum Today.

[Incognito]

Quick hammer. Why?

[Incognito]

So yeah. This seems pretty straight-forward.

vote: Incognito

---> Doombunny9

[Incognito]

I think mass claim is the way to go, yes.

[Incognito]

Oh, I thought we were going to have some kind of a claiming order or something. I'm fine with Zajnet deciding the order since he seems the most cleared to me at this point.

[Incognito]

Might as well give a whole order.

[Incognito]

I don't get why you chose Neto and PZ last Night. Can you explain that part?

[Incognito]

I can see why you chose PZ since you've mentioned a number of times that he was your #1, but I just didn't get the Netopalis choice. If anything, I thought I might have been your #2 since I thought you were implying some suspicion of me Yesterday.

PZ's mod find is probably accurate, but uh, I figured that number was pretty obvious already (we've lynched two scum, game hasn't ended and is still going on, town seems pretty power-heavy, three is the usual number in mini set-ups), so I don't really get why it needed to be pointed out. Plus, the mod posted that way back on Day 2. Why bring it up now? Did you just notice?

[Incognito]

I'm gonna

unvote

while we discuss a bit.

Seeing all of these crazy roles being claimed makes me feel drab and boring and extremely jealous. I'm just Vanilla:

Cerpin Taxt (from De-Loused in the Comatorium)

A man without eyes who wanders restlessly from corridor. On some levels, he is an imposing figures, striking down shadows with his sightless gaze, but other times he seems capable of great compassion. He seems stuck within his own mind, wandering the halls and looking for the one who can show him the way. How can he escape this torment?

As Cerpin Taxt, you have no abilities that could be considered useful in this game.

You win when the power of the White triumphs.

Confirm via PM. Game is here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14225

I have no idea what to make of any of the claims so far. Though, with Me=Weird's thing, the answer given by Seraphim for #1 seemed to not ring truth at first because Me=Weird did vote animorpherv1 during Day 1 who ended up flipping scum. Then I realized that Seraphim was probably being EXTREMELY literal when handing out the answers. Instead of asking if anyone voted was "mafia" so far, I guess you would have had to ask if anyone was a Goliath to get a better answer. The same probably applied to question number 2 since our town isn't really a "town"; we're considered "the White".

As for Papa Zito's claim, it seems like some kind of Masonizer or something of that sort.

-~-~-~-~

Anyway, with that all said, and if Me=Weird's 3rd answer is to be trusted, that would pretty much narrow everything down firmly to Papa Zito due to all of the other "clearing" that's gone on in this game. I'm really not sure if I completely buy that though. There are certain aspects of Papa Zito's play here that strike me as town, and that early push by animorpherv1 against MafiaSSK still seems like he might have been trying to get MSSK lynched.


I know most of us are viewing Zajnet as cleared due to the whole Watcher thing, but is anyone thinking that he might in fact be scum? I can't really recall any single thing that's given me a pro-town feel about his actions; I've just kinda checked him off as town because of his claim, which isn't usually a good idea. Gonna probably spend some time rereading him and others to see what I think.

[Incognito]

I don't really know. His claim seems to have too much power to clear people to be a scum role, but I recall seeing a scum role in one of Patrick's past games that seemed to benefit the town immensely and could have been really damaging if it lived past Day 1 and was able to claim at some point in the future. That's pretty much the reason why I'm not being quick to write him off as town. His role reminds me very closely of that one.

[Incognito]

As for Papa Zito's claim, it seems like some kind of Masonizer or something of that sort.

If he was masonizer then why isn't he mason with me or SK?

Well... yeah. But I mean in the sense that it looks like his role PM is extremely specific; like he's looking for one and only one particular person to masonize (and the person is scum-aligned). It kinda reminds me of a role that I saw in the game Mini 635 - WOMAFIA; in that game, I was considered a "boob mason" and Falcone was a "searching mason". He would have to PM the mod every Night and if he PM-ed the right name to the mod, that person would join him as a Mason and they'd then be able to night-talk.

-~-~-~-~

On the topic of no lynch, it sounds like a decent strategy on the surface, but what if the scum really do have a Roleblocker like we've begun to suspect? Assuming the investigators are both telling the truth about their role, couldn't they just Roleblock one investigator and kill the other, which would pretty much leave us in the same situation just down one person?

[Incognito]

All right, look, I'm just gonna come out and claim since I really think my chances of winning this game are lower as my real role than they could be with the town. I've been PM-ing the mod who's thankfully been on at this time to check a few things before doing this but it looks like it might be my best bet.

I'm pretty sure Papa Zito is clear because I'm thinking he's a Psychologist. I'm not actually a Vanilla Townie; I'm a Serial Killer. It would've been nice to continue as a Serial Killer to try and win since this is my first time ever drawing the role, but it doesn't seem like my chances are as great as I hoped they'd be here. Here's my actual role PM:

Cerpin Taxt (from De-Loused in the Comatorium)

A man without eyes who wanders restlessly from corridor. On some levels, he is an imposing figures, striking down shadows with his sightless gaze, but other times he seems capable of great compassion. The worst part of his torture: he can see all the spirits and knows them all. He howls this, every night. 'I made you all!' 'I made you all!' 'I will KILL YOU ALL!'

As Cerpin Taxt, you may choose one player every night. That player will be banished from this realm, effectively killing them, barring any external influences. You may, however, not use this kill one night to pray at the cross instead, which may or may not have an effect on the game.

You win when you are the only player left alive.

Confirm via PM. Game is here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14225

On Night 1, I chose to pray at the cross. I thought praying at the cross would somehow grant me NK immunity because NK immunity was not an inherent part of my role. Instead, I got a PM from Seraphim saying (and I'm paraphrasing, since we're not allowed to quote actual PMs) that I feel an overwhelming sense of peace and that my desire to kill was beginning to lessen. My guess is that I needed to pray at the cross before I would ever be able to accept Papa Zito's "cure" for me or what-have-you.

On Night 2, I killed My Milked Eek. I was stunned to see only one kill but that's exactly what happened. I have no clue what happened with the mafia's kill that Night.

On Night 3, I tried to kill Zajnet but this is the weird part: it somehow seems like it got redirected to Parama. Surprisingly nobody pointed out the fact that Parama was cross-killed:

Parama, Cassandra Gemini (from Frances the Mute), of the White, reduced to aether and unmade Night 3

My kill flavor is "unmade" while the mafia's kill flavor is "reduced to aether".

So there you have it. I think we should lynch someone Today and Papa Zito should target me Tonight to convert me to Town. But with all of these claims and all of these cleared people, I think our chances could be really strong here. All of this is pretty much the reason why I've begun to think that Zajnet could be scum. The only thing that "clears" him is his Watcher claim which could have easily been a bus.

Discuss.

[Incognito]

I think it would be better if we lynched, and I killed since that would gain us a total of 3 shots to hit the remaining scum. Actually, I probably should have checked with the mod to see if my kill would still go through on the same Night I was converted, but I don't think the mod's on anymore.

[Incognito]

Actually, he's on. Yeah, my kill would still go through in that case as long as something else doesn't prevent it.

[Incognito]

I'd actually like Zajnet to comment on all this before we decide on anything. I doubt the mafia targeted MME on Night 2 as well; the mod said that MME was only "unmade", which is my kill flavor. He said nothing about the aether stuff.

I really can't think of any reason why my kill would be redirected to Parama unless Zajnet is some kind of scum Nexus or something of that sort.

[Incognito]

Or... Doombunny could be some kind of busdriver? That would explain the choosing two people thing.

[Incognito]

Good point. My guess is the scum just didn't get their kill in in-time then.

[Incognito]

Are you reading, Neto?

Here's what I'm talking about:

My Milked Eek, Omar Rodríguez-López (from Real Life), of the White,

unmade

Night 2

Parama, Cassandra Gemini (from Frances the Mute), of the White,

reduced to aether

and

unmade

Night 3

On Night 3, yeah, it seems like we targeted the same person in Parama (even though I DID choose to kill Zajnet instead). But on Night 2, we didn't target the same person since Seraphim said in his death scene that My Milked Eek was

only

"unmade". If the mafia targeted My Milked Eek also, then Seraphim would have said that he was also "reduced to aether". But he didn't say that.

[Incognito]

I understand the case against Netopalis, but I think a major point in his favor is his protecting of Me=Weird Yesterday when the votes were piling up on him. Netopalis-scum could have easily just let a M=W lynch go through and not said anything about the innocent result he got on him. So, like I said Yesterday, the only way I can see Neto as scum right now is if M=W was his buddy. And I doubt we're dealing with a 4-person scum team.

So in my mind that pretty much leaves Zajnet who was "cleared" only because of this Watcher result that we can't even prove. It would be a pretty decent and elaborate gambit, but I would not rule it out entirely especially since SaintKerrigan seemed pretty wishy-washy with respect to who he should vote on Day 2 when Zajnet came out with his result. If the THREE of them were scum together, I could see SaintK trying to figure out which of his two buddies might be getting the axe, and he would have tried to choose accordingly in order to try to get the most town cred that he possibly could.

That said, I still wanna hear from Zajnet, and I'd like to see PZ's reaction to my claim.

Mod:

Prod Zajnet? Thanks.




P.S. Hi, Parama!

[Incognito]

Yeah, Doombunny, that's actually what bugs me about Night 2 also. There *were* at least 2 scums around to submit the kill, so I have no clue why they'd not submit it in time. We can rule out a Doctor save though because

a)

we already had one protective role die (the Sando-Bodyguard on Night 1) and I kinda doubt we had two or more protective roles in this game and

b)

nobody alive Today has claimed a Doc role and we're now feeling pretty confident that Parama was a Double Voter and not some kind of Doc.

So yeah, maybe it was something that needed to purposefully be done by the scums sorta like what I had to do during Night 1. I have no clue what that is but all of that is pretty irrelevant - Zajnet and not Netopalis still feels like the odd man out to me.

[Incognito]

The other possibility that I considered for awhile was maybe I *did* somehow gain NK immunity through my prayer on Night 1, and I thought that maybe I was targeted for an NK. It's still possible but after reading Papa Zito's role description about how he could only save this one person if they're will to be saved, I began to think that was less likely because that led me to believe that was what my prayer was for.

[Incognito]

Triple post! Also, Zajnet still living just doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't the scum have just killed him the very next Night after ani flipped scum?

[Incognito]

That's true. I really do prefer a Zajnet lynch Today though because I can only assume that he's un-nightkillable (since I targeted him last Night and my kill got redirected to Parama). If Zajnet flips town, I can target Netopalis Tonight with my NK if that's what the town wants.

[Incognito]

Bump.

[Incognito]

In fact, I think we might want to lynch Incog. We have no guarantee that PZ will bring him to the town side, and he is a claimed Anti-Town role, after all.

You seem terrified.

Why would the scum kill a one-shot that had already used his shot? I'm now VT. Scum generally look for power roles to shoot.

Because you're a claimed PR who apparently helped us nab a scum. Look at how quickly people wrote you off as town because of it. Would it make sense for scum to continue to keep someone who could potentially be unlynchable further and further into a game?

If I was un-nightkillable, why would the shot get redirected? Wouldn't it just not work?

I was trying to say that whatever it is that redirected my kill pretty much makes you the

equivalent

of unnightkillable since it seems like I'm not able to kill you. I wasn't saying that you were actually unnightkillable.


I still think we should be lynching Zajnet as opposed to Neto.

vote: Me=Weird

---> Zajnet

[Incognito]

Lynching me is bad because assuming Papa Zito is telling the truth about his role (and I really can't see him lying about this whole thing - the whole "I have no clue wtf my role does" thing seemed genuine to me along with the fact that he'd have had to PREDICT there was a role like mine in this game despite the fact that there's only been one kill per Night ALONG with the fact that I received a PM from Seraphim after my prayer that seemed to confirm what Papa Zito's role PM said), I'm guaranteed to become town Tonight. And if we lynch wrong Today, I'm still able to submit a kill as mentioned by the mod, which gives us THREE whole chances to hit the remaining scum as opposed to TWO (or really ONE since you'd be lynching me when you already know what the fuck I am).

How am I terrified? You're a claimed Anti-Town role.

I claimed an anti-town role that will be converted to a town one by the end of the Night whose NK can also provide us with an additional "lynch" to help find the remaining scum. I can't see why you'd want to lynch me Today unless you're scum and you're worried about the fact that your options for mislynches are running low.



-~-~-~-~-~



Why don't we just lynch Zajnet-scum and call it a game?

[Incognito]

Wait,

unvote.

I just noticed Zajnet's change in claim. Let me just think about what it is he's saying here for a second...

[Incognito]

N3 I saw Incog and animorpherv1 target him, hence my "crazy theory" from earlier about what if Ani is revived scum, and is the ghost, not Parama.

Can you explain this portion? How could you have seen me target Parama when I targeted you during N3?

[Incognito]

Actually, guys it's definitely Zajnet. If Zajnet

really

was this full Watcher who saw me target Parama during Night 3, why didn't he come into the thread all guns blazing trying to get me lynched? Shouldn't he have suspected I was the final scum?

vote: Me=Weird

---> Zajnet

He's scum. Let's end this.

[Incognito]

No, it wasn't the hammer.

My point is, I don't get why as soon as Day 4 opened up again, you weren't immediately demanding for a claim from me or pushing for my lynch. Here was your first post of Day 4:

I really don't like m=W's aggressiveness, but Meh. I'd like to see doom claim first.

The above doesn't at all look like the kind of post I'd expect to come from a full Watcher who has a positive watch result on a person who you claim to have "watched" target the N3 victim. Why would you not ask for me to claim first rather than Doombunny?

Also, you were definitely on-site after I claimed VT since I've looked at your posting history around that time - why not check into the thread to question me or call me a liar if you had a result coming from me targeting Parama?

[Incognito]

Just confirming that I understand the plan of action.

One thing I should re-mention though is I can't pray anymore. As mentioned in my role PM, I'm only allowed to pray once in the game, and I already did that during Night 1. I'm pretty sure Papa Z's conversion should still work though based on what Papa Z's role PM said and comparing it to the PM I received from Sera-mod after my prayer. I

can

"No Kill" but if Zajnet flips town, I won't be submitting that choice obviously.

[Incognito]

YAY! Good game all!

I had a lot of fun in this game. Like I mentioned in the thread, this was my first time playing as an SK, so I was pretty pumped up about drawing the role. I gotta admit that I did find the role more challenging than I initially thought it would be - since I wasn't NK immune, I oftentimes felt like I had to refrain from saying

everything

that was on my mind because I was afraid that if I did, I might end up drawing a Night Kill.

SaintKerrigan had me fooled pretty well early on, but I was pretty sure he was scum with at least animorpherv1 when I thought he was acting kinda wishy-washy around the whole Zajnet Watcher claim results situation. I mentioned it in-thread on Day 4, but it really looked like he couldn't decide which buddy to bus at that point. Up until the very last Day, I thought I genuinely might have a chance at winning the game as an SK, but I quickly changed my thoughts about that when the attention was slowly beginning to swing my way due to all of the claimed roles and so-called "cleared" people.



I killed My Milked Eek because I thought for sure that Zajnet or Parama would die Night 2 due to the whole Watcher claim business and that MME seemed the most obvtown of the players outside of those two. My goal early on was to help the scum decrease the town numbers and then later in the game I figured I'd try to kill off the scum themselves either through the lynch or NK. On Night 3, I narrowed my kill choice to either Zajnet or Parama since I thought they were the most unlynchable at that point. I went with Zajnet thinking that the scum would choose Parama and that the numbers would finally drop down to 5, which would put me in a decent position to win the game as SK. Papa Z's claim caught me completely off-guard but hey, once I saw that, I was happy to just claim and get the win with the town.



Overall, I'm happy with how I played here, and I definitely had a lot more fun with this game than I thought I would at first. I'm glad I didn't /out after all.

Thanks for modding, Seraphim and Percy!

[Incognito]

LOL those quicktopics were funny to read. I laughed at SaintK thinking I was Omar. :P