Mini 985:Madness at Night: Game over

[hiphop]

Present

I also confirm that AlmasterGM and Super Smash Bros. Fan are in this game, and understand (so they say) their roles (or should I say their jobs).

[hiphop]

2. All votes should be bolded and in the following format Vote: Scumbag

Funny how Vote: Scumbag is not bolded.

So can I do this

Vote: Podium

<---Policy vote just like I promised.

[hiphop]

Present

I also confirm that AlmasterGM and Super Smash Bros. Fan are in this game, and understand (so they say) their roles (or should I say their jobs).

That's kind of an odd joke... assuming it's a joke.

*(inserted by hiphop)because I say so*

Why do you assume it is a joke? And if it is one(not sure myself), why is it odd?

@Mod: 2/3 of the people here have confirmed. Will our votes count since 2/3 of the people have confirmed, despite us not officially starting Day 1 yet?

That is not very nice Just because I guy showed up early, does not mean he doesn't have a voice.

First off I would like to

vote:nopointinactingup

because he is the new guy in town. My logic is this. I have been around everybody but him, and the trouble just started, therefore it must have been brought in by somebody new. Hence the only logical suspect. But then llamaeatataco joined my town. so

vote:llamaeatataco

for ruining my well thought out plan.

But then again. The only logical person for me to do is

Vote: Podium

<---Policy vote for being obv town when scum.

P.s SSBF the next time you are a PR, please do not claim vanilla. What is worse is that when someone said they were willing to hammer, you did not make it known you were a PR. Why? If you are not going to help the town then you are no better then scum.

Oh in response to your rvs questions.
1.no
2.no
3.no
4.no
5.no
Thank you very much.
Three of the questions I believe have no relevence to the game of mafia, and the other two, well... I am not your seretary.

@

All

, do you generally prefer to lead or follow?

Definitely to lead, except when you are playing.

[hiphop]

so you are not going to tell us what time zone you are in.

I am pretty sure that if you check the thing that is under my awesome avatar, you might figure it out. You know the thing that says Location... that has been there since, I don't know, and sorry to not be exact, but this is only a guess, a month after I signed up at ms.net.

Hiphop's entrance is...something else.
What is so fragrantly bad about those questions that not only do you opt to not answer you get all uppity. Is SSBF scum? Are those questions somehow bad?

Thank you very much. Nice to be playing with you again. .

And in answer to your questions. Maybe, and maybe.

Now a question for you. How do

all

these questions help you to play mafia? Notice how I bolded the all.

Being that 80 percent have played with me before, 70 percent when I was town, and 40 percent when I was scum, I am sure any relevent information will be brought up anyways.

Wicked? SSBF? Almaster? Do you agree with my policy vote?

[hiphop]

Why does podium need pressure, he's already proven he's pro by completely pwning you both.

Hence the term Policy vote.

[hiphop]

So your policy is to vote for people who are good?

"Now you're not making any sense at all "

He was scum, where everybody thought he was town, remember. If I was policy lynching someone who was good, my vote would be for Spyrex.

@hiphop - it took you longer to refuse to give your time zone than to just say what it was. whenever you spend more time and effort refusing to do something than it would take to just do it, that fits my definition of being obnoxious on purpose.

Sorry for taking up 48 minutes of your time, but I doubt it was that important to you. Please tell me why it matters to you at all? I would think what would matter more is what time of day I am posting, not what time zone I am in. By the way don't ask. When I get on I get on. Besides I think you can tell exactly what time I am posting being it says on every post

Hiphop, please dont give the scum an easy target by acting like a buffoon right out of the gate.

But..but...why not? Curious to say, I wonder how many town would go after an easy target.

Cryto, can I steal you sig?

[hiphop]

AlmasterGM, what's the connection between hiphop being obnoxious and hiphop being scummy?

Thank you crypto.

Everybody pay close attention to this:

@hiphop - it took you longer to refuse to give your time zone than to just say what it was. whenever you spend more time and effort refusing to do something than it would take to just do it, that fits my definition of being obnoxious on purpose.

Vote: hiphop

. wagon teim.

Reason for vote. Not a random vote at that. Therefore I am scummy.

And then:

There's no connection at all. He's just being annoying.

Votes me because I am being obnoxious, but that does not make me scummy. Interesting.

[hiphop]

One would assume that scum would want to lay low and not do anything odd to stand out from the crowd, especially at the start of a game.

He's done the opposite of that.

Most scum. You are an exception of course.

vote: almaster

[hiphop]

Hiphop was looking very good till the vote on almaster. The whole 'I'm going to act like an idiot to catch opportunistic scum' was a bit labored, and I think hiphop isn't addressing why almaster actually voted for him.

Since I missed it, and you seem to see it, why did Almaster vote for me? And don't go making up something, give me a quote.

Hiphop/Crypto, why, simply because almasta decided to call hiphop obnoxious, does that automatically mean that's what the vote is for?

Hiphop, why does there being no connection between obnoxious and scummy mean you're not scummy?

Simple, Almaster gave no other reason why he voted for me, therefore the only reason he voted for me is because I am annoying. Until another reason is given, or should I say until he makes one up, that is what the vote stands for.

Who says I am not? Where did I say I was not? Am I scummy to you? Why?

Oh and you never answered all the SSBF questions, some people might find you scummy for that.

[hiphop]

This game needs more voting.

Cryto I have never understood your play style. Yes, I do believe the game would be better, if 12 people laid down their votes, yet for one person to lay down 12 votes in the same amount of time defeats the purpose of voting at all.

Hiphop, why are you voting for Alamaster?

You know everytime I write his name I spell it that way, look at it, erase it and spell it the right time. I don't know why, but that is how it is. In answer to your question, post 42.

I want people to react in how a person answers a question as well (Although that is an lesser priority for my questions, it was still an important part of me asking these questions). For example, hiphop is currently receiving a lot of heating for his obnoxious way of answering my question. People can also refer back to this as evidence to help determind if they're more likely to be town or not.

Pay attention here. The questions are not why people are voting me. I could have done the exact same thing in mindlessly answering the questions and nothing would have been gained at all from the questions. Therefore the questions were not a significant part of this game. People are voting me because of me, not because of the questions.

He was scum, where everybody thought he was town, remember. If I was policy lynching someone who was good, my vote would be for Spyrex.

So, you’re vote for podium is for playing well in Mini 955, yet you say it isn’t a policy vote for a player you think is good. What?

good as scum.

Since I missed it, and you seem to see it, why did Almaster vote for me? And don't go making up something, give me a quote.

Because he wanted to start a BW, that seems fairly obvious...

Are you sure? why? People hop on a bw because they believe the guy is scummy, which leads to the whole obnoxious thing(<--the only thing that Almaster addressed about me). But as Almaster said obnoxious does not equal scummy. So I ask you again why did Almaster vote for me?

Votes me because I am being obnoxious, but that does not make me scummy. Interesting.

'interesting', especially given that you voted him in your next post with no further reasoning, is basically you saying he's contradicting himself. He didn't, just because he doesn't think you being obnoxious is scummy, doesn't mean he doesn't think you're scummy.

Now you are off track. There was something that triggered his vote. Most would assume that it is written in his post. What is written is that I am obnoxious. Yet obnoxious does not equal scummy. So why the vote? Solely because I am being obnoxious? Ah... the never ending loop. Besides I am not the only one that comes to that conclusion.

Do I find you scummy? I said in my post why I'm suspicious of your game so far:

Hiphop was looking very good till the vote on almaster. The whole 'I'm going to act like an idiot to catch opportunistic scum' was a bit labored, and I think hiphop isn't addressing why almaster actually voted for him.

Maybe I was being obnoxious on purpose, what about it? As for the second part, . Your starting to make me laugh. There were only two reasons that I can see why his vote is on me.

1.I am being obnoxious, but I addressed that already, so that cannot be what you are talking about.

2.Because, as you brillantly pointed out, he wanted to start a bw. How can I address why he voted for me, if he doesn't say why I am scummy?

So I ask you again, why am I scummy?

Why does finding someone obnoxious mean that you find them scummy? Do you normally find obnoxious people are scummy in your games?

There is a difference. When someone votes for someone and leading up to that vote is a paragraph that refers to that person, one would think in that paragraph must be the reason for the vote. One would also think that the vote is because that person is scummy. So one would think that because I am being obnoxious is the reason for the vote. Read above for that never ending loop again.

He's stated that it wasn't the reason he voted for hiphop, you keep ignoring this fact.

Where? He did not say, "I did not vote hiphop because he is being obnoxious." Nor did he make any statement that resembles that statement at all. Then I think...Wait a minute your the one that stated that. Not him. So llama is supposed to believe some statement that

you

pulled out of thin air? Now perhaps you can answer my questions.

llama omgus It is when you are voting for someone primarily because they are voting for you. It does not mean you cannot vote for Sando for having scummy reasons, in which he voted you. There is a difference.

mod-I need to know. Please explain the rules on hinting(on things such as the spelling, punctuation, etc.) or displaying pms sent by you. There is no such rule in your rules. It might be beneficial to all if you actually displayed the vanilla role for all to see.

Mod Edit:I've done as qequested. Please present any further questions about your role by pm.

[hiphop]

Where? He did not say, "I did not vote hiphop because he is being obnoxious." Nor did he make any statement that resembles that statement at all. Then I think...Wait a minute your the one that stated that. Not him. So llama is supposed to believe some statement that

you

pulled out of thin air? Now perhaps you can answer my questions.

Crypto asked:

AlmasterGM, what's the connection between hiphop being obnoxious and hiphop being scummy?

Almaster responded

There's no connection at all. He's just being annoying.

Yeah I'm pretty sure Almaster did say something to that effect.

What?

My vote was just saying "I'm voting for you because you are being annoying and I have nowhere else I'd rather have my vote right now.

Sando your case fails. I was right. He

was

voting me because I was being obnoxious.
Also in post 64

Since I missed it, and you seem to see it, why did Almaster vote for me? And don't go making up something, give me a quote.

Because he wanted to start a BW, that seems fairly obvious...

Is wrong too. Shows how much you can read minds.

How can I address why he voted for me, if he doesn't say why I am scummy?

Where did he ask you to address his points?

Sando, it is better if you do not cut out the part that has the answer to in it. Here I will quote it again.

Do I find you scummy? I said in my post why I'm suspicious of your game so far:

Hiphop was looking very good till the vote on almaster. The whole 'I'm going to act like an idiot to catch opportunistic scum' was a bit labored, and

I think hiphop isn't addressing why almaster actually voted for him.

I bolded the answer to you question. Did I, or did I not address why Almaster voted for me? In yor opinion I did not. Why? What part did I not address?

Let's put the question in a different form, why are you suspicious of me?

Reason for vote. Not a random vote at that. Therefore I am scummy.

Logic 101. Just because there is a reason doesn't mean it implies you are scummy unless I make that connection. An RVS vote saying, "Vote hiphop because I hate spiderman" has a reason. A textbook policy vote against anti-town players has a reason. Neither of these indicate scum. My vote was just saying "I'm voting for you because you are being annoying and I have nowhere else I'd rather have my vote right now.

Your attempt to turn this molehill into a mountain is noted.

So are you saying you were bwing me with an rvs vote? Never seen that before.

A molehill is a mountain to an ant. It is just a matter of perspective.

And no, I gave a reason for my vote, Sando questioned my vote trying to say my reasons were false, because he could mind read.

Votes me because I am being obnoxious, but that does not make me scummy. Interesting.

What's interesting about it? Or were you hoping someone else would jump in and fill this in for you so you didn't have to tack your name on the failargument that is going to come from this.

ooh Interesting. Should I make the same argument Deer did?

Interesting-arrousing or holding the attention of. It is interesting to note that Almaster bw for a non-scummy reason. More likely not having any options as scum to find any scummy reasons as to why anyone else is suspicious at all.

vote: almaster

More OMGUS, please.

Are you normally this jumpy? You are literally going into panic mode because I mentioned your name a few times.

Do not use terms that you do not know the meaning of. Here I will provide you with the link again. omgus Please provide any evidence where I voted for you strictly because you voted for me. I dare you. I gave a reason for my vote, and it was not because you voted me.

And in answer to your questions- you have played with me as scum, and modded my town game, I am sure you already know that answer. Me providing my own meta, makes it null.

How am I going into panic mode? If you are referring to the argument with Sando, that argument only exists because he can't mind read.

[hiphop]

I've stated why I'm suspicious of you, then I quoted what I said, then you quoted it. Just because 1 part of it was incorrect doesn't invalidate my suspicions. Stop pretending that I haven't made myself clear.

No, I want to know. Through all the mumbo jumbo, your reasons are unclear. Please state it again.

Hiphop was looking very good till the vote on almaster.

This is the main reason, why you find me suspicious. Why did you not like my vote on Almaster?

I think your 'I'm going to act like a jackass to get scum to jump on an easy target' was pretty contrived. I don't think a townie would legitimately think they'd catch scum with that.

What if I told you that when I was acting like one, I had no intentions to start an easy bw on me, but I did however go with it.

IMO, most of the reason this has turned into a mountain is because you included 'wagon tiem' with your vote on hiphop. If you had said 'vote: hiphop because he is being annoying', and left it at that, it would look like a normal RVS vote.

QFT Based on that, I still do not think it was a rvs vote.

Seacore's "interesting" attack was easily my favorite argument from 955, and yes, that's where I got the idea (but I didn't want to just copy and paste it). And considering Deer was scum, I don't know if that's the best idea.

Perhaps you are right. I actually thought of that, but I didn't want to let it go by.

Nonresponsive. I asked you why it was interesting and you still haven't said why, you've just stated what interesting means. You're using "interesting" as a mask to avoid posting an argument and waiting for someone else to do it.

It is interesting to note that Almaster bw for a non-scummy reason.

That is what I find interesting about your vote. Piling on perhaps. Hoping to get in the middle of the pack, and start a momentum towards me. All interesting facts, but then again it could be what you now say it is a rvs vote.

Truth be told, when I first saw the vote, I thought that you had somewhat of a legit reason for having a vote on me. I was thinking that to you obnoxious equals scummy. Not my idea of scummy, but everybody has their own views, but when you come back and say obnoxious does not equal scummy, then I think, now wait a minute, he is bwing me, for a non-scummy reason. Why? And the most logical answer is piling on and hoping to drive me towards a mis-lynch. Therefore you are scummy for the piling on for no reason whatsoever.

In response to your omgus and being jumpy because someone is atttacking me- meta me. Those are two things a newbie will do. Also someone might do it as a habit. You have seen me play as town or scum, did I ever in either of those two games (or even in any of my games) done it before. And obviously you are the only one that believes so, so clearly it is only a matter of your opinion.

His third question also seems a bit odd to me. Looks like he is either trying to defend almasterg too much or is using a weak argument against hiphop.

I agree with the former. His defense of Almaster is odd, being he defended over something that wasn't even factual.

I've got a triumvrate of people who I think are, in fact, town and a whole mess of jerks that need to shake themselves through.

Lurky lurking lurker. Spyrex why didn't you answer his question?

Who do you find suspicous? What do you think of my recent arguments? Am I being jumpy? Have you read the entire game? Why isn't rvs over? Is SSBF still your top suspect?

I claim Miller ( I will turn out to be scum by cop investigation or lynch despite being a Townie ).

Everybody should read this-claiming miller Most people agree that claiming miller the first day is the best way for a miller to claim. Think about it, should a miller claim after the cop has investigated him. Nobody would believe him. However him claiming on day 1, is extremely pro-town, not only increases his chance of being lynched, but the cop the cop also does not waste an investigation on him. The cop SHOULD NOT investigate Np. because everybody knows what the investigation will turn out to be. Guilty. If he is mafia then it will be guilty, and if he is town, then obviously he is telling the truth, so the result will be guilty. Even though I have never played with a miller before, I believe the best way to handle him is if he is scummy lynch him, and if he acts townie not lynch him.

Just because the cop should not investigate him, does not mean the tracker or even the vig should not target him.

One thing is very clear-

The cop should not investigate nopointinactingup

[hiphop]

Prehaps it's just me, but I really did not like nopointinactingup's early claim. I really don't see the benefit of claiming this early in the game when we still have plenty of time left (I guaratee you the exact same result would happen if he claimed closer to the end of the game).

Do you still feel this way? Is he scummy for it?

Nopoint- just to make things clear- Are you a death miller?

Yes, you're vote on Almaster was terrible, it was basically 'ahah! Scum has fallen into my devious trap'. Whether you still think he's scum, the initial vote was pretty bad. People following were just as bad.

Did you read this paragraph-

Truth be told, when I first saw the vote, I thought that you had somewhat of a legit reason for having a vote on me. I was thinking that to you obnoxious equals scummy. Not my idea of scummy, but everybody has their own views, but when you come back and say obnoxious does not equal scummy, then I think, now wait a minute, he is bwing me, for a non-scummy reason. Why? And the most logical answer is piling on and hoping to drive me towards a mis-lynch. Therefore you are scummy for the piling on for no reason whatsoever.

You did happen to notice how I posted after his vote, and did not comment on it, but after crypto asked his that questio, I was all over it.

Are we playing in hypothetical land now? I wouldn't believe you, you had to know you'd get at least 2-3 votes, you're not an idiot, and you jumped on the first person to BW you.

Well it is true. I guess I must be an idiot, but I am not stupid. I would not intentionally draw a bw on myself, just so there can be a bw. There are plenty of newbies to do that for me. And no i did not jump on the first person to bw on me. Truth be told charter placed the second vote on me, but as I saw it, it was rvs. Almaster as I believed did place the first real vote on me, and I did not find a problem with it until I found out that his reasons were not legit, as in, him saying obnoxious is not scummy. Then I had a problem with it.

Regarding the Miller claim, this isn't simply a Miller claim though, this is a Death Miller, which as far as I'm aware is a very rarely used role.

You know what, I missed this. In fact I must have read the two posts of his regarding his claim like 5 times before I saw it. If this is true and he does die, I don't know how I will take it. Whether to think he is scum and use his connections or to think he is town and ignore him. Either way, we should still follow the plan and lynch him if he is scummy. I also read that millers are put into the game to make the sides more even because the town side has the favor. So we do have the advantage either way.

Spyrex is lurking. What's your point? Lurking =/= scum all the time, but we could pressure vote him or something. IMO lurkers are fine d1 lynches actually...

unvote, vote:spyrex

Currently I am in no mood to lynch Spyrex. i have seen his town play, and if he is still that good, I want to at least keep him into day 2 if possible. If that is giving him a free pass than so be it.

Nopo's claim is balls-out as scum and I'm not seeing it. At all. Especially as a death miller. Its gonna take a lot more than ohh sigh lets lynch the claimed miller.

Right now I am agreeing. He basically gave the cop a free investigation, and that is pro-town to me.

hiphop prepping for a jump?

Only to be pushed back away from the ledge. But like I said, I had no intention to vote you at the moment.

Not sure what to think of nopoint's claim. I don't have a problem with early claims, but I don't see why he didn't just claim in his very first post instead of waiting until now.

Why should we talk about it the entire day 1, when we can talk about what is really important like who is scum? Imo it might have been better for him to wait even longer than he did.

posts right after each other-

Sando, please stop ignoring my points against you.

Unvote. Vote: SpyreX

Why the vote? You make a big deal about Sando ignoring your case, and yet you change your vote anyways. I agree with Spyrex, am I scummy for that? In fact, why is it scummy at all? If it was scummy, wouldn't you vote for nopoint instead? If you are saying Spyrex is scum for that, wouldn't that mean nopoint is scum too? What does Spyrex have to gain by saying such a thing?

And don't use 96 as an excuse to either vote spyrex or lynch the claimed miller. That was exceedingly exceptional circumstances, given he was investigated N0. Also, what do you expect a town-miller to do?

Your reasoning for voting Spyrex is extremely weak.

I agree with this 100%. I see no reason to place a vote on Spyrex for the reasons he gave.

fos wicked

Is it just me or does SSBF have follow the town stamped all over his posts. Let's take a look at his only 2 non-rvs votes.

I don't have a better target at the moment and

I do like Sando's case on llamaeatataco

, so

Unvote, Vote: llamaeatataco

.

SpyreX:

Agree with the case surrounding him

(As a matter of fact,

Vote: SpyreX

).

Hmm...Looks like it.

fos: ssbf

What exactly do you agree with on the case on Spyrex?

@podium- why don't you put your foot down, and tell us who you find scummy, instead of making comments here and there. And perhaps...I don't know...maybe...place a VOTE. Or at least tell us why you are not placing a vote.

[hiphop]

ahh, the marathon is gone. I missed the rapid bw and voting just because I felt like OMGUSing. Back to the real world.

noactingup - tricky. very tricky. i would have rather had seen the claim near the end of the day, after we had a chance to draw an opinion on your discussions/arguments.

^ like this, because I think he is trying to do what is best for the town.

im not sure that i would be opposed to lynching him now... just to get rid of the question.

^ dislike this. In fact that is scummy It looks like a null read yet he still wants to lynch him. Looks more like he is thinking what is best for scum, by getting a mislynch. First of all, you will not get rid of the question. It will always be a question, until end game. Therefore the question will still be there. It does not help. So lynching him because he claimed miller is just bad. 2nd thing, why can't you still "draw an opinion on (his)discussions/arguments?" Or is this some alien concept to be utterly ridiculous in drawing any opinion on a person playing mafia?

Hiphop looked pro-town (very good) because he was doing his best to act obnoxious and draw attention to himself. 'Very good' was probably a bad term to use, as I don't think it's good play, but I think it's townie play. I didn't like his vote on almaster, it made his buffoon play look less like drawing out scum, and more like jumping on someone who fell into his 'trap'. Just because I think it looked like a fairly obvious (labored) attempt doesn't change my view of the motivations behind it.

Sando either I am lying or not. I did not purposely act like a buffoon, to get votes. What motivation would I have to lie? Alignment? Just think about it. If I was town, why the lie? And if I was scum, why should make any such argument that would potentially make me un-town. Let me say it again- I did not purposely act like a buffoon, to get votes.

You were townie for reacting how you did to hiphop, and not getting drawn into silly arguments and attacking such an obvious target. Your view of hiphop made me think town, scum aren't likely to declare a 'buffoon' town in my opinion.

Before you make any such arguments that he is town, read this game.

It is pretty much one of the reasons why I prefer to put him in a box and lock him in a closet, during the whole game....Maybe...We'll see if he continues his flawless run as townie.

Please let's just hold hands and lynch SSBF.

You know crypto I think I will follow the bottom of this post and jump on.

unvote vote SSBF

But then again

unvote

. You know I really dislike newbies in a way. I can never tell whether their play is scummy, or just bad play. Ok fine, his play is scummy and any non-newbie would and should have a rather large bw by now. So,

vote SSBF

post whatever since there are no numbers I hate when people make a catchup post and fail to mention my name.
1. It makes me feel like I am being ignored. Simply put, I ignore you, you ignore me, therefore no suspicions of each other. Ok, buddy?

fos Charter

2. It makes me feel like my town game must not be good enough to help catch scum. Therefore I am not obtaining my win condition. Ok then I will just try harder.

Darn, we cant iso.

I dont really like the votes on spyrex... am i missing something, or is the only case against him wickeds meta thing, and lurking?

Yes, you can.
Actually only the lurking thing. Wicked's meta thing isn't a case.
Also answer this post Don't start skipping.

Llama- Sando did comment on that post at the bottom of the page, and right now, I think I might sort of agree with him.

Its just that, like I said, even there what SSBF did raised the bar (which llama then stole)

Spyrex, I really want to know how this happened. You can start from when you first vote llama. In all that sarcasm, I cannot ascertain why you voted for llama. And since then I cannot find any indication, of why you even have your vote on llama. I kind of also want to know who is scummy besides the people attacking you, unless of course you can convince me, that scum decided to throw the book of mafia out the window and band together for one time since the start of mafia to mislynch you.

Then I preview, and find llama stole my idea and topic of that paragragh. Spyrex can you answer mine first?

mod can you please prod everyone who hasn't posted in 72 hours, like your rules specify, I guess that means just Almaster. Yes I know the forums were closed, but can you do it anyways just to humor me

Which reminds me

Ugh, catch up tomorrow.

I guess tomorrow never came.

[hiphop]

And I dont even remember pretending to think about implying they are scum together. ....And yea I totally only go after people who go after me thats exactly what went down with SSBF amirite.

You know, I had to read my post a couple of times before I figured out where you got this idea. That was not my point at all. I wanted to know if you had a third, (usually people have at least three potential lynches. I have three.) or if you were keeping that a secret, but apparently you don't have a third. Also if you read my post you will find that it says that I wanted to know if there was anybody that you thought was scum, besides

the people attacking you

. Attacking you, as in currently. SSBF has a vote on you, therefore he is attacking you. I don't care whether or not you went after him before he even looked at you. SSBF and llama are attacking you, are they not? Therefore stop assuming things.

Also I am not attacking you am I? I just want to help a townie develop his reads, so please do not get sarcastic with me. Either way I don't care about that anymore.

Instead let's see what can be gleaned from this part of you post

SSBF is scummy because of, AGAIN, the whole business detailed which I'm not doing again.

Llama is simpler. The "well, not getting into this" *14 posts past with some serious SpyreX wagon prep* "Ohh yea lurker vote". Which he flat out

admitted was because there was a wagon on me versus other "lurkers".

Llama, independently, has a waaaayyy higher shot of being scum. Hence, the vote.

From what it says SSBF is making up stuff(highly scummy in my mind, if that is the case) and llama is attacking you for something that others are doing.(happens in every game, especially on day one, why does this make him special?) It seems to me that SSBF gets the cake. So listen to crypto. Besides I need you to supply the rope, the one we have seems to be fraying.

I'm sure you didn't MEAN to be hypocritical and retarded and jump on the wagon and then make up the reason afterwards, just barely out of the rvs,

Have you seen SSBF's latest post? Look at this-

The closest I could find is SpyreX being hypocritical once, which you pointed out in this (part of a) post:

Attacking someone for not having a scum read then basically providing no reasoning beyond that that itself is scummy, seems like simply wanting to attack SSBF and not wanting to be called a hypocrite.

Now I will quote you. AlmasterGm said,"I'm sure you didn't MEAN to be hypocritical and retarded and jump on the wagon and then make up the reason afterwards, just barely out of the rvs." All I got to say the boot fits.

He clearly made up that reason. Literally. I mean when he say,"The closest I could find", means he had to search for it. If he had to search for it, then clearly he did not agree with other people's cases like he stated, because obviously he didn't know anybody's else's reasons. Therefore it only shows that he bs'd his two reasons after I questioned him on it. I don't know how people can say that isn't scummy.

Let's go back to his reasons

What exactly do you agree with on the case on Spyrex?

1. His vote on llamaeatataco seems like bandwagoning and OMGUS to me.

2. Was dodging questions until you had to ask the questions to SpyreX again. Sando asked SpyreX a few questions in #103. SpyreX ended up not answering the question in his next post (#104).

1.It is not OMGUS if he has a reason, and as far as bw- Why is it bwing? Does he not have his own opinion for his vote. Are you not guilty of this bwing too?

2. I can name 3 people at the top of my head that have done the same thing. Hey Spyrex, SSBF is voting you for something that others are doing too. Therefore either
A: Spyrex is guilty of something he accusing llama of doing. Which is attacking someone for something others do.
B:SSbf now trumps llama and spyrex's vote should be on SSBF.
You decide Spyrex which is correct.

Also SSBF- Wicked is claiming that Sando is skipping questions. If Sando is, is Sando scummy for that? Oh...wait...Sando is the guys you are buddying with. My bad.

You want to be potentially stuck in endgame with him? Would be less damaging to lynch early in the game.

Just to let you know, I would rather have him than you. But seriously, I am counting on two things
1.to lynch

all

scum before

lylo

, not endgame(because endgame happens in every game), comes. (Keep in mind that 3 of the wins as town for me, never had a lylo.)
2. If I cannot have 1 then the second option is for the vig to shoot him in the face.

Think about it, if we lynch in this order- A,B,C,D, and E. And A is the miller, what is different then lynching in this order B,C,D,E, and A. Either way if A is a townie, we just mislynched, and if he is scum, we just lynched scum. It doesn't matter in what order we lynch the miller, whether in lylo or not, it is still a mislynch. Damaging all the same. Either way I am

not

lynching someone who I have a null read on, unless of course it is PoE.

And lastly, what good does it for the town to lynch him now, instead of later. He will flip guilty. Is he town? Is he scum? I don't know, do you? My point exactly. I don't know about you, but I want some info from my first lynch. And considering what you said here-

I'm putting my hopes in getting good info from the night.

I assume you agree with me.

I'd rather you let the person that asked the question make that request. Let's me know how serious they were about knowing the answer, or if they were just throwing out questions to look like they are scum hunting.

I wanted it answered too.

I disagree that he should've waited longer. Claiming at the beginning locked him into his claim. He can't change it for the rest of the game. If he waited until later in day 1, that would have given him time to consider different fake claims. For example, he might decide to claim miller day 1 because he fears he will be investigated night 1. He would've had no idea at the very beginning of day 1.

Did you not read my link on claiming miller? If you had you would have seen that most people would claim at the end of day 1(even in twilight) or not claim at all, if not investigated. The reasons this is, is because as Podium pointed out, we can then access whether or not he is scum, based on his actions, and not having his claim interfere with scum reads. Can you not say now that you are biased towards him one way or another because of his claim?

1: I found it suspicious how SpyreX carelessly assumed nopoint was town, considering he had been tricked before as town and I think that would've taught him a lesson. Keep in mind, SpyreX isn't even basing his read off of nopoint's behavior in the game. He is only basing it off the fact that he claimed miller.
2: So? I can not be forced to keep my vote on a player simply because they ignore my points. Can I?
3: Nope. What did nopoint do wrong?
4: No. I actually think that nopoint is town if SpyreX is scum.

Hitting the important points. If I strawmanned you in anyway, please say something.
1. I am basing my read that nopoint is indeed town at this moment because he claimed miller. Again am I scummy?
2. Those points were the reason as to why you voted for him. If he ignores them, what changed? Or are you saying you bs'd those reasons, so technically your vote on Sando was bs as well.
3. I would think that if KK was scum, then np is possible scum. Or you would at least look at him in a scummy light? Or are you agreeing with Spyrex that np's claim is townie?
4.So Spyrex is town if NP is scum. What is the difference between your statement and mine?

Nopoint- I would like a little more chatter from you.

[hiphop]

scratch number 4 wicked. irrelevant.

[hiphop]

day ends the 23rd. 2 days from now. So mod can we have an extension. 2 reasons
1. technically we had an intermission, so we did not have a full 2 weeks.
2.llama is v/la till sunday and so is Crypto, and I think it is only right for all to have a chance to have a say near deadline. So can you please extend deadline to Monday the 28th, if not further. Thanks.

Sando either I am lying or not. I did not purposely act like a buffoon, to get votes. What motivation would I have to lie? Alignment? Just think about it. If I was town, why the lie? And if I was scum, why should make any such argument that would potentially make me un-town. Let me say it again- I did not purposely act like a buffoon, to get votes.

Sando please address this. Am I a liar? Lynch all liars?

I don't get the SSBF case at all.

What part did you not get?

It may not be extremely influential, but imo he has a small point. I dont understand why, since you were obviously aware that scum could use that tactic to win, you didnt seem to show any hesitation in assuming that (

this

time) the miller is telling the truth.

Maybe I am just bias. I don't know, but for some odd reason, I thought wicked was pushing a scummy case. Even though Wicked said the exact same thing as Podium. it wasn't until after Podium explained.
Now as it sits I am going to take this

Now, if other evidence presents itself that isn't somehow OHH SNAP MILLER than sure. As it sits, town.

as interpertation of this

Nopo's claim is balls-out as scum and I'm not seeing it. At all. Especially as a death miller. Its gonna take a lot more than ohh sigh lets lynch the claimed miller.

for two reasons.
1. His last sentence of the last quote links the two.
2.His first quote is the same as my views of the nopo claim.
I however will not complain if Wicked's continues his case on Spyrex. It isn't scummy, just not something I would do.

Which reminds me. Nopo-the chatter please. I really do not care what your excuse is. What do you think of Spyrex's view of your claim? What do you have to say about SSBF? What is the purpose of being town? Do you think you are helping? Anything?

Its partially rage. The "yea, I'm doin it, what of it" and getting away with it drives me nuts.

You know if you had said this instead of giving your hypocrite reason, I would never of said anything.

I'm gonna call BS on this one. Suspicious = Arousing or apt to arouse suspicion; questionable: suspicious behavior. Scummy = something scum would do/something that makes you think someone is scum. Now, why would you question someone's action? Because you think scum would do it. Scummy = suspicious. Word games are fail. They can be hella fun, but trying to wiggle out of a lynch through them is not a good idea.

Semantics. I thought Sando was scummy for saying there was a difference. I read you case before and agreed with it, but now you have crossed the line into scummy land. You do not need to create noise and push a semantics case. What are you trying to prove? If others were not convinced before, I doubt they will be, especially since semantics alone does not make someone scum. It looks to me like you have nothing more interesting to say so you attach yourself to semantics.

fos llama

Uggh, I don't have time to do the rest of it, but I mostly agree with Wicked and Hiphop. I don't really care who you guys lynch out of the popular suspects though (as long as it isn't me). Sando lynch ftw.

Currently as it stands, the lynch is in two days, yet you do not put your vote on the most popular wagon. You said you do not care, yet still no vote for SSBF.

What are you referring to here?

I think you knew exactly what he was referring too. Did you not as scum group with deer-scum, and Ythill town? Why the question?

Just giving some insight as to why i skipped it.

So you skipped it on purpose. Why? Did you happen to notice that Crypto would not be available to question you further till day 2?

Currently combined with his meta and other scumtells, I could very well push a case on him. But then he had to surprise me and post this gem Normally I would say this is a town move, but then again this is Podium, and he did the same thing last game when he was scum. Grr...Podium you are making me mad. Can't you be obv one way or the other? Why do you have to do this to me?

Sando- what was your point in arguing with Spyrex if neither of you want to lynch nomo?

I'm a Town Cop. In addition to being able to vote and voice my opinion, every Night, I have the ability to investigate a person of my choice.

I'm going to respond to anything that I'm missing. I also promise a full analysis of everyone before the Day ends.

Looks legit to me, but Almaster's and Podium's posts make me weary. If it is, how do you get so lucky to do it two days in a row, and I have never done it. I don't want to rush a claimed cop lynch, so I will

unvote

, and decide later. Almaster can you please post SSBF's role pm. I would like to compare it to this claim. I know if he was scum he could make one up, but I don't want to leave any stones unturned. I will decide tomorrow on his claim.(read last paragraph for my theory as to why I will survive.)

SSBF- I am waiting, by my count the day ends in 3 hours.

I do however think that there is something to look at between this post and his post above where he says he does not get the case. It looks a lot like scum preparing to defend, and then switching to an easy lynch, especially a cop lynch. Almaster if you do not get the case, what makes you so sure that SSBF's claim is fake? Therefore he is scum.

Since my number 2 Podium, just went whoosh, and my 3 Almaster, and my number 4 charter do not have a wagon on them, I will go with a

vote llama

I hope others do the same. Keep in mind I am of the opinion that the lynch is on the 23rd, like his opening post says. Until the mod says otherwise, we should all assume so.

The reason I believe I will surive is because out of all the games I have played, the town vig and mafia have never nk'd me. ( I am excluding the time where I replaced in and scum nk'd me.) Therefore I assume the mods make me un-NK'd-able. If I am nk'd tonight I would probably laugh for a whole week. Maybe.

[hiphop]

mod prod charter

[hiphop]

So why cannot there be a gunsmith and cop? A gunsmith investigates to see if they have guns. A cop has a gun. Therefore for day 1, I am lookin at both as legit.

One thing i do not like is, why if charter said SSBF was lying, why there was no vote?

I do know that SSBF did lie. He promised a full analysis, yet we got none.

Yes, podium it is ssbf. And you never answer my question, did you know crypto is v/la?

Also about time you noticed, I have been

been doing

it all game.

Oh, if ssbf is lying, the miller is a fake.

By the way Charter does you role pm have something like this

In addition to being able to vote and voice my opinion

[hiphop]

lets do this.

ahh...another scumtell from Podium. No vote? That is scummy coming from you. What are you waiting for? For you to follow the town again.

[hiphop]

and for a triple post

Charter if your claim is legit, don't investigate ssbf. We know he has a gun either way. You might consider investigating nopo. Think about it.

[hiphop]

guys I just went over 13 hours of work. I am going to do nothing but go to bed. When I get up, I am going back to work, so don't expect anything from me for another 20 hours. If I do another 13 hours then don't expect that either.

Hopefully, I got my wish and the mod extended the day. If not I hope you guys are voting llama. Remember if not a majority there will be a no lynch.

Good night.

[hiphop]

You guys. Why is it you decide to chatter when I am not here? Well.. my wall will just be longer.

And you never answer my question, did you know crypto is v/la?

I answered that.

No you didn't. Show me. Stop evading and just answer it.

1. "lets do this" as in lets figure out which one we are lynching... hence the question to each cc.

Oh, please. This is such bs(and yes my brothers' intials are BS, so I substitute his name for this) and you know it. Here is the original quote,

well... we lynch a cop cc here, right? maybe a bad day just turned into a good one for town. lets do this.

You go from asking the town on what to do, (which pretty much makes number 3 fail. Because truly you are asking the town what to do. Hence follow the town. ) to saying you pretty much agree that we should lynch the cop. And finally, "let's do this", which pretty much leads to everybody lynch the cop. Yet Podium does not make the first move. Oh.. wait... he is wanting the town to make the first move. Question for everybody but Podium- Does "Let's do this" insinuate that he is undecided on who to lynch, or pretty rock solid that he is indeed lynching the cop? Can somebody else explain this to me, because for once Podium is not making any sense at all?

Oh for number 2, yea it refers to the other game. Part of your scum meta.

In fact

unvote
vote Podium

Sando- ok I can take that. But I am still not lying. Also your second paragraph makes sense too. I did not notice you were voting Spyrex.

Nopo- sorry I missed it. Was reading to fast and forgot to address it.

I do not know if he is a townie. I thought that maybe he would be more likely townie, because he stated that you were indeed a townie. Not just a simple I think this guy is town, but more of a confirmation. And to me that seemed like a genuine town move, because he is willing to lock someone in as town. However things have changed, It looks that he did not confirm that you were a townie, but more of a we'll see. Which of course moves his town tell into a null tell.

As for the explaination of my assertion that nopo wanted me to address- I do not know if you are town. Nor will I ever know unless Charter(the gunsmith) investigates you, to see if you have a gun or not. Millers do not have guns right? So from my point of view, if there is no cop(no counter claim) then no miller either. Because then what is the good to having a miller?

The above of course answers you question that you had to Podium on why you should be investigated. As you probably can tell now, he wasn't referring to the cop, but to the gunsmithh.

And Podium, I really do not care whether the question was referring to you, you were agreeing with me, so technically nopo was asking me a question through you.

As for why I didn't counterclaim miller, that's stupid. I'm not going to out myself after a claim that's scummy all on it's own and doesn't need any help. And plus, I've been in a game with a gunsmith and miller (though the setup was pretty horrible). You don't see how countering after death miller and cop are different situations?

Except for the fact that most people found it un-scummy. Once this was evident, I would find it more likely that you would conterclaim a miller instead of a cop. I will explain this farther down.

I didn't vote because I have no idea what the votecount is, didn't want to quickhammer.

Just like Podium's statement, I find this bs. 2 reasons

1.If you are absolutely sure of yourself that someone is scum, which in this case you are, then wouldn't you want to lynch scum? Unless of course you don't want the town to get in an uproar, that you are mislynching a townie?

2. Even after I call you out on it, you still don't vote.

Now I am more fishy of the SSBF claim, mostly because I am bias, but Charter is really spitting out scum tells. I am just not sure of what to do at this moment.

ssbf SSBF that is what I am asking. And sorry if I rushed your analysis, but I live in real time, so that is what i kind of expect. I find SSBF's explanation to be protown mainly because if he were town, wouldn't a townie have those reasons? If I am wrong please take one of his 4 reasons(two on the top and two on the bottom) in the post I just linked and tell me why a townie would not do it. Or you can just tell me any reason why a cop wouldn't claim there?

By the way SSBF- please do not bring mini 955 in, you were at L-1 and you gave your farewell speech that you would try to do better in the next game(as in you already threw in the towel) yet you did not make any step toward actually claiming what you really were.

I am still unsure. I gave ssbf points on his explanation, but I also gave charter points on his counter claim. Both have given scumtells, yet both look promising as town too. I believe they are both real. Will explain at the bottom of this post.

Ssbf analysis There is one mis-fact. On the part that you said it took Almaster 5 days to catch up, you will find that most of that time was moving day. (Or how short is your memory?) So hence his catching up post became from the next day(thread was closed) until he could make it. So you can't find him scummy like that at all. Notice how you didn't post for 4 days of that time either. Are you scummy for that?

Also I am not liking the fact that people keep grouping me with scum-Podium.

wicked I meant buddying in the form of following. So yea pretty sure he was attempting to buddy.

1. Why do you think he is town? I didn't realize you thought nopoint was town. I don't think SpyreX's stance on the miller claim makes hardly any sense, but I didn't know/remember what your stance was.
2. Yeah. I bs'd those reasons. But seriously, I found SpyreX more suspicious when I switched my vote.
3. All I've learned from the game in which I lost to a miller is that I need to be more wary of scum claiming miller. I don't look at him in a scummy light because he claimed miller nor do I think he looks like town for claiming miller. I am not going to judge nopoint based off of his claim, but based off of his behavior.

1. Pretty sure you have been skimming my posts. Why do i write these things if nobody is going to read them. Wicked you will find my stance here when the miller first claimed. READ IT.
2. Skipping- will answer it after 3.
3.Yea pretty sure Spyrex said the same thing here
So back to 2. If Spyrex has the same view that as you, yet you find that view to be still scummy, does not that make you scummy too? So are you saying you are scum?

Also Wicked there is a difference between that game's miller and our game's miller. The biggest difference is that in that game the claimed miller waited until after the cop investigated and got a guilty before claiming. In our game the cop has not investigated nopo, and better not, we now have a saved investigation, which can be used somewhere else. Hence pro-town. And that alone is big.

(kind of liked the Russell Hantz avatar better)

Spyrex disagree completely. Charter has been one of the lurkers in this group, therefore anti-town, and SSBF's claim was 2 days before the original stated deadline. Pretty pro-town timing to me. Or are you saying that he should claim the day of deadline? Want a scramble?

however, I like to kill issues like this before they blossom out of control or its a welp.

So you want to take the chance of killing a pr, before it can be used?

Ok now for why I think there is a Miller, cop, and, gunsmith at this juncture.

First off read gunsmith Notice how it say that cops have a gun. I am looking at cops go with a gunsmith. Look at it this way. When a cop investigates he gets a result. The cop cannot be absolutely sure of that result because of a godfather, being sane, miller, etc. What does a gunsmith have to make sure his results are not accurate. Well there could be a cop, or a vig. That is it. So yes I can believe if there is a gunsmith that there is indeed a cop too.

Take a look at this scenario- cop and gunsmith do not claim day one. Gunsmith investigates cop some night beyond. Gunsmith comes out and says he has a gun. Cop says I am a cop. Who would believe him? Looks a lot like someone to fake claim. Right? Cop gets lynched. a mislynch for scum. Puttng scum in better position to win. I mean look at what is happening now. You guys are arguing that one of them is scum. Surely the way it sounds most of you want one of them lynched. Hence a mis-lynch for town. My point is proven. Guys are you not going to give them a chance at all to use their roles? Are you going to take the chance of lynching a powerrole day 1? Are you scum? Seriously. Stop arguing that you want to lynch a PR. Unless of course you are scum, then by all means keep arguing and put your vote down. Prove to all the townies that you are indeed scum.

My explanation as to why there if there is a cop, and gunsmith then there is a good chance there might be a miller- Did anyone read my link on claiming miller? Clearly a miller is put into the game to help create a mislynch. Hence to make the sides more equal. Unless you guys have a better reason. Cop investigates miller. No explanation necessary. Mislynch. If there are both invetigative roles in this game, wouldn't that put favor towards the town winning? Wouldn't a miller balance it out some. Couple that with, the gunsmith mislynching the cop, I would say there is a good chance for scum to win. Wouldn't you? Of course we could be so tilted one way, that there could be a vig too. Another mislynch?

Nopo, a little more chatter.

[hiphop]

Best-case town scenario could absolutely cripple a scumteam with a cop and a gunsmith on both sides. The counterbalance, as seen in the miller claim, isn't even enough to change the balance since a miller that knows they are a miller SHOULD be claiming thus freeing up the investigative role.

And yes, cops, vigs and sometimes even trackers and watchers can have guns. However, from a true balance prospective its not a function of "what happens if the gunsmith investigates the cop before he claims" but "what happens if both the gunsmith and the cop investigate scum?". Its the inverse of counting on cross-kills for balance - it just doesn't work.

My point is proven. Hey guys got a great idea, let's lynch a PR before they can use their roles. Spyrex, what would happen if say you do lynch SSBF, and he does turns up town? Would you then push a lynch for Charter, if he isn't nk'd? Perhaps what I said is actually true. Think about it.

Podium Ok, I missed it, somehow. Maybe it was because you put number 2 under another quote, and I thought it pertained to that one. Either way you answered it, so I will forget it.

1. My first impulse was that we lynch a cc, but i asked "right?" to make sure. I'm not familiar with the proper move in this situation... and i didnt get the memo where we arent supposed to ask other players opinions about how to proceed.

2. EVEN IF i was 100% determined to lynch a cc, then what dont you understand about me saying 'lets do this' and then trying to determine which one to lynch without placing a vote? If i am unsure of which one i want to lynch (which i am), then whats wrong with me scumhunting before i place a vote?

1. Funny, who were you asking? Certaintly didn't listen to me. Must have aimed the question at people who ...SURPRISE... want to lynch the cop. Therefore he only had one goal- lynching the claimed cop. Anyone else see this? Yet, still no vote.

As for number 2

Although i would have preferred to let the original person make a post before you asked again.

Let's try this again.

Question for everybody but Podium- Does "Let's do this" insinuate that he is undecided on who to lynch, or pretty rock solid that he is indeed lynching the cop? Can somebody else explain this to me, because for once Podium is not making any sense at all?

And I kind of want an answer. Why did everyone ignore this?

fact- "let's do this" Aiming to lynch the cop.

Ok, so when i was scum i followed the town. This game i haven't. Snore.

Wrong. It is not about getting on every wagon, but being there when the lynch is happening. Which clearly you are aiming for. Hence following the town.

So wait, the idea is that 2 strong investigative roles is somehow offset by a miller, a role that will invariably D1 claim, throwing out a lot of the downside?

Did I say that?

My explanation as to why there if there is a cop, and gunsmith then there is a good chance there might be a miller.

Nope.

Sando- If there

is

a cop and a gunsmith, would you expect the miller to be legimate? Notice the if. I never said anything about if there is a miller there are 2 investigative roles, but if there are 2 investigative roles, then we most likely have a miller.

The word 'opinion' seems like a strange word to use in this role pm. Mine doesn't use that word. Charter, how about your role pm?

Please stop discussion of the wording of the role pm's. Thank you.

Thank you so much for getting the mod riled up on the wording of the pms. I was saving that for day 2.


Also this isn't dark red like our mod promised. I smell an imposter.

Mod Edit: My apologies, the board change makes it difficult...will edit the rules to fit my new mod colour.

I also think that it will probably be a good idea for SSBF to investigate charter.

I don't. If Charter dies, then his nightchoice is wasted. SSBF investigate anyone who will not be nk'd by scum, sk, or even the vig. I trust you will make the right decision. A confirmation would be nice.

nopo- please put you vote back on someone. Or at the very least give us who you are suspicious of.

HEY EVERYONE - Llama hasn't posted in over 5 days.

Mmmm, I love the smell of "trying to hide and let the wagon derail itself in mountains of game theory."

HEY EVERYONE - Llama has been v/la since last Sunday, and he will be v/la til next Sunday.

Mmmm, Smells like " preying on the weak."

fos almaster

Mod I will like to make a petition that I get more votes

Mod Edit: I would love to comply, but unfortunately that influences the game too much as moderator.

[hiphop]

stop ignoring my question

At everybody besides Podium. This includes SSBF, Spyrex, Nopo, Almaster, etc.

Does "Let's do this" shown here insinuate that he is undecided on who to lynch, or pretty rock solid that he is indeed lynching the cop?
ANSWER IT. Why does nobody give their opinions on this?

However, thats not happening since SSBF isn't going to be town.

My gut says SSBF is scum, and we should lynch him today. This is based on the last game, scumminess so far, and banned information that the mod should have deleted from the game.
However my brain says NO. We cannot, nor should we even accept the possibillity of lynching a claimed pr day 1. We have got to give them a chance. Therefore I am against all those who want a lynch of a claimed PR.

Misrepresentation... you are implying that i should have taken your advice on what to do with a gunsmith and cop claiming, when you had only given thoughts regarding a cop claiming.

Wrong again. I am implying that you should have taken my advice into consideration about the gunsmith and cop claim after I had given it. You asked a question, so you must have been unsure of yourself, yet you showed no indication that you read my advice until your most recent post.

After reading the bold and wondering why you would say that, i think i see what the problem is. When i said 'we lynch a cop cc here, right'... i was calling the gunsmith a cop as well... cause its a flavor cop. I think you took it to mean 'we lynch the town cop here, right... lets do this', and then i asked each of them questions... which wouldnt make sense if that's how you interpreted it.

Does that clear it up?

No, it doesn't. I don't care about the first sentence, and I don't care about the second, it is the "Let's do this." That is glaring from the page.

Let try this.
We are lynching the cop cc here, right? "Let's not do this." What does it mean? Doesn't it mean that I am saying that I disagree to lynching the cop cc? Take the negative out and what is it saying? Do you get the same feel that one sentence is linked to the first?

Fact-"Lets do this." pushing for the lynch of SSBF. Yet no vote. Looks to me that Podium is waiting for someone to bite, and then ride along.

Sando For some odd reason I am agreeing with Sando, and think that llama would not be a good lynch today.

Nopo- Where is your vote? Where are your suspicions? At this rate you are heading for a day 2 lynch. At least in my book. So you had better start pushing for something.

I am very surprised that nobody said anything about this. I am not sure if wanting a no-lynch is scummy or just anti-town.

scummy for pushing for the night without any scumbuddies dying, anti-town because
A) No information on the flip.
B) Thinks for some odd reason that all scum rests in the PRs

Then again people are more anti-town for not commenting on it at all.

Anyway, I'd rather not claim but I'd also rather not lynch ssbf today. We lose absolutely nothing by lynching him d2 or d3 and we have everything to gain if he is legit cop.

QFT

Does anybody think that having two investigative roles, a miller, and no other roles is balanced? What if there were 2 sk's and no mafia in this setup? Is it believable?

vote count please

mod prod Charter, he hasn't posted in 5 days

and he isn't lurking spyrex? HA.

[hiphop]

Ok I was wrong. Charter said he would be V/la till Friday. Either way it has been 2 days plus the v/la that he has been gone.

mod still prod please

[hiphop]

forget it. I am stupid. Should have got it in your last post that you explained it to me. Still wish people had not ignored my question, even though now it is irrelevant.

unvote

vote Almaster

[hiphop]

cc- character claim
cop character claim. Makes sense to me.

[hiphop]

unvote

vote Almaster

No, not you either.

unvote

vote Crypto

PoE.

[hiphop]

I am with Crypto on this one.

unvote vote Nopointinactingup

<--This guy has been doing nothing but nothing.

Even though I said I wanted to lynch someone with information, I think nopo is the best lynch still. For three reasons
1. Anybody who says SSBF is scum, says nopo is scum too. Therefore this will give SSBF if he is a cop a chance to use his role. However if ssbf is town nopo can still be scum.
2. He hasn't contributed that much, so we won't be losing much.
3. If the mod put a millar in the game, he did it because the town had the advantage. Therefore we stil would be ahead.

It's a win-win.

Spyrex I believe you said if SSBF is scum, so is nopo. Since you are voting for SSBF, then you must believe that nopo is scum. Vote with us.

Forget charter's investigation of nopo. As far as I am concerned SSBF and nopo are scum. Any other lynch is just a waste of a townie.

Podium- I have played in too many themed games. A cc in my interpretation does not apply here, though I have never heard it the way you express it. This is what happens when guys from different forums clash.

[hiphop]

Hiphop, sometimes you make me go

In a good way or bad?

[hiphop]

In an am-I-sure-about-this-town-read way, even though I usually can't quite put a finger on why.

Brillant deduction Sherlock.

nopo- Oooh. I am not reasonable when I actuallly want to lynch you. Nice Defense.

Really do not feel like lynching someone else, so your it. Also you defended Podium? News to me.

[hiphop]

Well someone hasn't been paying attention to the thread.

Who me? How so?

[hiphop]

You call that a defense? Heck, I unvoted him before you posted that.

[hiphop]

I think claiming miller is scummy (since there's way more benefit to claiming it as scum than town). Everyone else not thinking his claim is scummy doesn't have much bearing on what I think. Plus, I find his play pretty suspect as well.

Nopo is at L-4. Vote with me.

[hiphop]

You call that a defense? Heck, I unvoted him before you posted that.

directed at nopo.

[hiphop]

Alamaster's "give SSBF a night" I think is an acceptable plan. Largely because I find Llama so suspicious that it eliminates the issue of lynching someone not as scummy. I don't really care which of those two we lynch today.

Which 2 are you talking about?

[hiphop]

that SSBF and Nopo are both the same alignment. On that thinking, if we lynch SSBF in worst case we get a 'confirmed' townie in Nopo, without any real risk.

Now you lost me. How is it that if SSBF is town, so is nopo? If SSBF is a real cop, what makes it that nopo did not fake claim? I can see the other way around.

not so sure about this lynching nopoint stuff. for one, he is pushing to not get lynched and be investigated... which is in his favor. if he was scum, and knew he was going to be investigated if he isnt lynched, the best move for him would be to get lynched... it would serve to confuse town.

And if there is a RB, we go on, and on, and on. Any night that scum can last is one more closer to winning. Isn't that right?

THIS IS A BAD LYNCH

SCOOP SCOOP

REGARDLESS THIS IS THE WORST LYNCH

Llama is better if no one wants to man up and take care of business. Lynching the death miller is absolutely a waste and I'm disgusted by it.

Want to bet? Watch this.

You agree that there is an investigative role as shown here. Also shown there you believe that is Charter. You also believe that nopo needs further attention if charter is telling the truth as shown here. (Or the way I interpret it is scum, if ssbf is)
Therefore
SSBF or Charter is telling the truth-->Believe it is Charter--->if ssbf is scum, so is nopo--->Believe nopo is scum.

Tell me that isn't logical. My way of thinking looks like this
SSBF is flat out scummy-->No way a miller can be in this game without a cop---> Believe there is only 2 scum--->SSBF is scum, so is nopo---> Want to give SSBF the chance of using his ability---> Therefore vote the scum by connection--->vote nopo.

And no Spyrex, I am not lynching llama, especially knowing that he cannot claim. Am not willing to blind lynch.

SSBF Hate this. Makes me want to re-evaluate my vote, knowing scum is on this wagon, however there is nobody that I can rush lynch in one day.

Only the scums would fail to realize or fail to heed the consequence of lynching me.

FOS: Hiphop, Wicked, SSFB

Let's see I'd put SSFB above all, but he has a role claim.

Vote:Hiphop

See Almaster that is OMGUS.

Consequences? What? Let me explain something to you. A miller is nothing but a deranged VANILLA townie. If you are one, you get nothing but your voice and vote, just like any other VANILLA townie.

As for you saying that when you flip guilty the town will be confused- How so? You are guilty. it doesn't matter whether you are alive or dead. The town will still not know your alignment.

Your last vote on crypto was because he was lurking. Why are you any different? You say you cannot provide anything till day 2, why not him too? Go get a real case, and defense.

Anybody who is not on a wagon that is possibly heading for a lynch, should be looking at other wagons. That includes Sando, and Podium.

mod when exactly will deadline be on the 30th, because if it is in the morning, my last post of the day will be on the 29th.

[hiphop]

Hiphop, you didnt answer my question:

"I need to hear from wicked and hiphop reasons why mafia

wouldnt

want a nopoint lynch."

and/or How is a nopoint lynch not a win-win for mafia?

For the simple fact that he is mafia. Why would mafia drive up a wagon, when he is a mislynch any day? Why would mafia drive up a wagon on their scum buddy when llama can be mis-lynched instead? That simple. Don't say well llama is scum, so they don't want to lynch him. Llama is not voting for nopo, therefore he is not driving a nopo lynch. And if llama were scum, scum is not driving a nopo lynch.

Isn't a win-win, a win on both accounts? Not seeing a win when nopo flips scum.

And if there is a RB, we go on, and on, and on. Any night that scum can last is one more closer to winning. Isn't that right?

So you don't want to let nopoint live because you think there is a RB and they will block charter. Interesting that the possibility of a RB hasnt been discussed (to my knowledge) until a few ticks before nopoint almost gets lynched.

And he can be killed. And yes it has been discussed. Someone mentioned it between the claims and now. Also just because nobody discussed it does not mean it isn't there. Also a rb is up the air as much as a protective role. Or are you saying we have one of those?

Fear of a RB is a weak reason to lynch nopoint, imo. The reward is worth the risk. We lynch nopoint and we will

never

know the truth behind a large majority of D1 actions. If charter gets rblocked, then the same would apply. However,

if

there is no rb, then we would obtain extremely valuable information.

The if that I bolded is only an if. Like I said or he gets killed. I am not expecting him to flip goon, but scum pr. And when he does come back and read this-I told you so.

I am looking at two scum and only 2 scum in this setup. SSBF, and Nopo And am not in the mood to lynch a townie at the moment, when we can lynch scum.

You are still voting for Sando. Why? Do you think he will be the lynch? If so, why are you not pushing a case?

[hiphop]

My point really wasn't why would mafia push a nopoint lynch, its why would town push a lynch that pleases mafia? I guarantee they would rather see us lynch someone whose alignment is never revealed versus a VT. Lynching a VT would at least give us info we could use.

Also, the fact that we have the ability (though not 100%) to reveal the alignment tomorrow, strengthens the case for town not to push the lynch. or at least not as much as we might with a miller only claim. (or even a miller plus town cop claim)

If he's maf, town never knows his alignment.

I guarantee you they would rather have a VT lynched then someone who is mafia. Very scummy of you to say that you would rather lynch a VT, rather than someone who has a better chance of being scum.

Hey charter, why don't you investigate llama instead of nopo?
Now Podium this is the time to say, "the fact that we have the ability (though not 100%) to reveal the alignment tomorrow, strengthens the case for town not to push the lynch." Refering to llama of course. Why is nopo special?

If he is mafia, town is one step closer to winning. Are you forgetting the chance of him being a scum pr?

I think sando is still a pretty solid candidate.

You know what the funny thing about this whole situation. I have had a case on most everyone I have voted for today, including nopo, and have always pushed for their lynch. You have used your vote, as with most people here as a placeholder, if I hadn't looked at the VC, I would have thought you were not voting.

mod when exactly will deadline be on the 30th, because if it is in the morning, my last post of the day will be on the 29th.

That is a bad oversight on my part. 12 PM PST

Mod I would like an extension. The rules state

5. Deadlines will be as follows: 2 weeks automatically at the start of the day with an optional 1 week extension based on the activity level and replacement status of the players. Night actions must be received within 48 hours of a day's end.

We will only have 2 weeks and 6 days, because of the move. I know I might not get it but it doesn't hurt to ask.

podiumI agree with your first few points on Sando. The ones about him not wanting to lynch wicked, yet is willing to lynch llama. Major scumtell. If you had made a good case like this on him a few days ago, my vote would have been on him. However less than 24 hours is not a good time to get a wagon going on Sando.

Of course this makes wicked scum by comparison, but Wicked posted this which jumps him ahead of llama in the townie list(not lynching him either). I cannot elaborate because the mod will modkill me. He might do it anyways, but at least Wicked is town.

Also your case against wicked stinks. It is mostly he supported a nopo investigation, than abandons it. If you had actually read my posts, you will find it was

MY

idea for Charter to investigate the miller, and it was

ME

who laid the first

real

case on nopo and it was

I

and my points that started the bw. So if anyone is scummy for that reason it should be

me

. Why did you choose Wicked over me?

The reason why I abandoned is because I plan on lynching scum day 1.

You know Podium, if you had actually done something during the day, instead of being half in and half out, we migh actually have a good bw that you like on a qualified person that you like. I actually did something, and I actually think nopo is a good day 1 lynch. Not the best, but good.

And podium another reason why I am not waiting is Charter could be scum, not a very good chance imo, but still could be. I am not waiting for day 2, I plan on lynching scum.

Short list of who I do not want to lynch today.
Everybody besides Nopo, and now Sando because of Podium.

Who had the bw? Nopo.

EVERYBODY VOTE NOPO.

I'll give you 2 hours before I hit the sack.

[hiphop]

Sigh.

At this point, I seriously feel like saying F.U. town and voting nopoint out of frustration.

But, because i have way too much pride, i actually care about winning this game. So i will continue to fight the haters/liars/assumers, in the hopes that the best decisions are made.

I just hope that if/when i die, all of you that are criticizing me will respect what i am doing here... albeit in hindsight.


almaster up next.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


...go ahead hiphop. tell me how scummy this post is to you.

seriously, do it. i dont care.

NOT SCUMMY.

[hiphop]

And I am serious about it.

[hiphop]

Though still wondering, why you wagoned wicked over me.

[hiphop]

I think it's both of you

Why? And don't tell me a reason that basically sums up to OMGUS.

Podium I am sick of the place holders.

[hiphop]

Oh there was support, just no real case.

That is also my point in placeholders. People who vote for someone then don't do anything to push it.

[hiphop]

going to bed. Maybe I can quickly vote before i go to work, but we'll see.

[hiphop]

Nobody read this post, but Podium.

Normally I would say your walls are just a bunch of noise, but we are close to deadline, so in this situation I would say it helps.

Are you really this amateur hiphop? Your words are all mixed up, and this is twice you have misrepresented my words.

I am sure you can answer that question yourself. Though the answer to me is yes.

I guarantee you they would rather have a VT lynched then someone who is mafia. (trying to quote me)

Wrong. Try again.

If I am such an amateur, how am I wrong?

I said

mafia

would rather lynch a VT than someone who's alignment would never be revealed. That's not scummy, that's common sense.

Oh really? Let's say you had a scum buddy. He fake-claimed miller. Would you lynch him? Let's say a VT and him were at L-1. Common sense says you lynch your buddy? Brillant. NOT!!

And yes you did say you would rather lynch a Vt than mafia.

Lynching a VT would at least give us info

we

could use.

See. you would reather lynch a vt rather than mafia.

Hey charter, why don't you investigate llama instead of nopo?
Now Podium this is the time to say, "the fact that we have the ability (though not 100%) to reveal the alignment tomorrow, strengthens the case for town not to push the lynch." Refering to llama of course. Why is nopo special?

If he is mafia, town is one step closer to winning. Are you forgetting the chance of him being a scum pr?

Skipped for time, as it would just be a wifomy speculation discussion. You want it answered, then tell me to do it later.

Shall I ask again? Why is Nopo special? Tell me who is more scummy, nopo or llama. If charter is town, and he investigate anybody, wouldn't that person be confirmed when charter dies? Why is Nopo special?

It wasn't a placeholder. I have stated previous to these last minute actions reasons why i felt sando was still my top scumpick. It's not my fault if i can't get people to agree.

Apparently, nobody felt they were scummy enough reasons.

Of course this makes wicked scum by comparison,

How so?

sorry, should say by connection. Goes back to what I explained above. Scum would rather have town lynched over scum. He evaded voting for wicked, therefore there is a good chance wicked could be scum with Sando. However wicked is town. In fact he is in my top spot.

And I don't see it as Wifom, I see in the post that I showed you a huge towntell.

Actually, crypto started the bw and made the first real case on nopo. You had stated from the beginning that you would follow his play and lynch him if he was scummy. You noted scummy play in your vote for him, so you were consistent. (note that i still considered your vote slightly scummy) Your vote was near the start of the bw. Also, you didn't assume there to be a protective role.

Wicked made a fairly specific plan very late in the game, which matched my plan. This included having the protective role protect charter. It was thought out, and solid. BW takes off. He completely abandons his previous plan, and piles on near the end of the BW with virtually no good reason.

I do not consider "this guys is a miller", as a case. I also do not consider a question like "does this look scummy" to be a case. I made the first real case. Did others use Crypto's so-called case, or mine, when they latched on? My point exactly.

Just because Wicked added on to

MY

plan does not make it his. I suggested it here and a couple of posts later you agreed with me not Wicked. Wicked doesn't come till three days later and posts this Tell me who's plan was it that said Charter should investigate Nopo? Who was it that laid the first

real

case on nopo? Who was it that Wicked followed on both accounts? I'll give you your answer, all you have to do is post, "You". Thank you, I agree with you. So why was not I wagoned?

I actually did something, and I actually think nopo is a good day 1 lynch. Not the best, but good.

Really? So who is the best? That sounds contradictory. Dont skip this question.

In general, compared to other games I have played. Why is it contradictory?

Good. Because I think there is enough support for a sando lynch, especially with the extension. Help me work on it.

Also please comment on my more detailed description of wickeds last action. Does your (what i consider) wifomy argument supporting wicked, make up for the scumminess of his move?

unvote vote Sando

I did comment on it. I said it stinks. Your case is exactly what I did. Wicked followed. I know my alignment, so by comparison he should be the same. Yes, his town tell makes up for his

unscummy

move. I will not support a wicked lynch. i would rather have a no lynch that a wicked lynch. That is how strongly I believe the guy is town.

Will give my daily wall for everyone else in an hour or so. After I eat. I just wrote this, because Podium is dying to hear what I have to say.

[hiphop]

Thanks mod.

I hope I can make it up to you by winning this game.

not commenting on any of the walls. May not even read them.

1 My goal is to find scums and I will do it my way whether I win Mr.Popularity or not.
2 You're blowing your head up with the possibility of me being scum. The truth is not YOU or anyone knows whether I'm scum or not except me so stop with the irrationality.

Copy and paste for my defense
1 My goal is to find scums and I will do it my way whether I win Mr.Popularity or not.
2 You're blowing your head up with the possibility of me being scum. The truth is not YOU or anyone knows whether I'm scum or not except me so stop with the irrationality.
There, how's my defense? Keep in mind you are commenting on your own as well, because they are the same.

I think it's both of you

Why? And don't tell me a reason that basically sums up to OMGUS.

It's not OMGUS, it's OBVIOUS . Why would a town want me lynched for the mafia benefit? Don't get it wrong, I like you and all but I see you and Wicked as most likely scum candidate so I vote you and him.

I said not to tell me it was OMGUS. Thankyou for confirming though.

People, more talk on the scumtell Podium pointed out about Wicked

Not a scumtell if townies do it too. There I commented on it, happy?

Spyrex- not in favor of lynching Podium. Has a townie heart even as scum.

Pointless arguments...

let's look at the potential candidate each person is willing to vote:
Podium: Wicked/Sando
Crypto: Wicked/Almaster
Nopoint: Wicked/Hiphop/Sando
Spyrex: Podium/ Llama
Charter: Llama/ Podium/ Nopoint/ SSBF
Almaster: Podium/ Llama/ SSBF
Hiphop: Nopoint/ Sando
Sando: Llama/ Nopoint
Wicked: Nopoint/ Llama/ SSBF
Llama: Sando
SSBF: Nopoint
Hayker: Everyone

So we have ( in order from fewest to most numerous )

1 for Almaster
1 for hiphop
3 willing forWicked
3 for Podium
3 for SSBF
4 for Sando
5 for Llama
5 for Nopoint

So in the case no one objects to this list or changes their mind, we will have to lynch either me or Llama, make your choice.

Crypto will most likely vote Sando, SSbf is a tossup, hope he follows me. Wicked I can see voting for sando as well. Therefore Sando is the lynch.

Spyrex- Why not Sando? Also you hopped on the Llama wagon because? It looked like you had no other wagon to go to. So why not Sando? Llama cannot claim, Sando can. Which is more pro-town?
SSBF- Why not Sando
Wicked- Why not Sando?
Almaster- Why not Sando?
Crypto- Why not Sando?
Anyone else- Why not Sando?

I hate it when it doesn't post because somebody else did. Thanks a lot Podium, for making me click it twice.

[hiphop]

Spyrex-why not sando?

nopo i don't like clicking submit twice.

And now spyrex does it.
Can't you just let me post?

So vote with me Spyrex. Townies should stick together, and I don't like a llama lynch.

[hiphop]

Interesting, (Almaster comment on my interesting ) Podium never commented on my wall. Why am I special?

[hiphop]

your vote count is wrong, only two people are voting for nopo.

[hiphop]

@hiphop: Huh?

what is the huh supposed to mean?

[hiphop]

Don't really care for a wall. Just a summary of why I am town or scum is fine.

[hiphop]

Spyrex-why not vote Sando now?

[hiphop]

It won't let me post when someone else does. So I click submit, and a post that was just written by someone else appears above the box. I didn't hit preview, and I didn't write that post. So i have to click submit again. Don't like clicking it twice, so please do not post when I do.

Podium- simple, I hate walls except when I write them. Remember in the last game where I said you could strawman me if you want.

[hiphop]

You just have to know. And no.

[hiphop]

L-1. Any takers?

[hiphop]

Claim?

[hiphop]

Nopo- sorry for the push. I now know you are town.

This game is insane.

From the point from Sando's claim till his death, I thought he might be more likely town. Not sure what is was at this moment, but it doesn't matter now.

After his death I was all prepared to vote Charter. I thought if there was a godfather, there has to be a cop. Therefore of all the people left, and being he did not want to vote Sando, surely he had to be scum.

Now Almaster comes out with this claim. Right now I am with Wicked, and Almaster is scum or insane. The latter is more like it.

Want to hear charter's results even though I know what it is going to be.

I think it is hillarious that Spyrex is on record that one of the cops is lying, yet now we have three. So Spyrex are two of these lying?

Let's go with the insane, sane cops and lynch charter. Actually that makes sense. A godfather, miller, it all fits. Charter does not.

vote: Charter

Not only that but look at this

A quick rummaging through his stuff showed that Sando had absolutely nothing that pointed him towards being mafia. The town sighed, until someone found a piece of paper detailing how to appear innocent to cops.

They didn't find a gun on him, but rather a piece of paper that told him how to be innocent to cops. Flavor or no flavor, charter is scum.


Podium-GRR...You took away my nk. That was supposed to be my death scene.

[hiphop]

1. Me and AlmasterGM are the cops (Doubt it)

Are you doubting your result? What is he a lying townie?

[hiphop]

Just that I currently don't buy the cop claim..... but town has no reasons to lie,

So your lying about your result? One way or another- either A he is town AND a cop, or B your scum faking a result. Not believing B, so A is the truth.

Have you ever heard of an insane cop? Ever? Let me help, all results are backwards. Therefore if he is a insane cop, llama is town. Get it? So really he cannot be proven town unless you flip town. If he flips town, it certaintly does not prove that you are town. So I will not be lynching Almaster, before you, because A and B can be proven above from a lynch of you.

[hiphop]

Why would charter-scum fake-claim gunsmith at that interval, hiphop?

Not sure exactly. Maybe he wanted to get it out, but like I said the piece of paper said how to appear innocent to cops. Not the cop, but cops. Of course it could be just flavor. Though I would think if there was a gunsmith, it might have said something like they found a gun on him.

Also the death miller fits in because if one of the cops is insane he would appear innocent.

Almaster story 2 is wifom. If anything I would rather lynch SSBF before Llama. Why? Because if he flips town, you are 100% town, even though you probably are. If scum then it is wifom.

Still like story 2, but will go with story 1.

[hiphop]

Also keep in mind Llama had the very first vote of that wagon, even though all heat was off.
SSBF didn't comment until after the lynch.
Charter said he would not lynch Sando.

[hiphop]

And another thought. If we lynch charter ToDay

One vote on him, and not yours, and you are talking about lynching him?

[hiphop]

hiphop, it's like 2% wifom. The other 98% is just pure ridiculousness.

And even the wifom is stretchy. Scum gambit of letting claimed cop SSBF live is this early in the game is VERY risky.

Then why don't you vote SSBF? They let Charter live. I would think that if there were 2 left, they might kill charter in case the roleblocker dies. If Charter is town, it makes me think there is only one left. You know what might as well.

unvote
vote Super Smash Bros. Fan

Let's do this
Spyrex, Almaster, Crypto, and Nopo are all town. So no matter which way we go we cannot lose.

[hiphop]

I don't see why we are lynching SSBF first. On the off chance that his story is right, llama is a smaller loss.

Because I believe llama is more likely town than ssbf. Who do you think is more likely town?

[hiphop]

Spyrex

What?

Are you saying Spyrex is scum? Spyrex voted Sando. right? Are you saying every scum candidate voted their godfather? Brillant move scum, outing your godfather pretty much confirming there is a cop. Admit it, SSBF is the correct lynch.

[hiphop]

Also think about if SSBF does flip sane cop, doesn't this mean that Almaster is more likely insane?

[hiphop]

If you lynch llama and he flips town, then we know I'm insane and there is a chance SSBF is telling the truth and we have a cop. If you lynch SSBF and he flips town, you lynched the cop and you don't know anything about llama. There could just be two cops plus a lying charter and a lot of counters (roleblocker, godfather, and millers), which wouldn't be THAT unbalanced.

It doesn't matter who you think is more microscopically scummy; strategically, lynching llama is the correct play.

So you agree with me that Spyrex is the townie we should join with. As long as town has one more than scum, we can pick the other 4 off. Pretty sure scum lie in the other 4.

You guys probably have more experience than me, but i think you have it wrong. If llama flips town or scum, you know nothing. If he flips town, how do you know that ssbf is town? What is anywhere that say if llama is town, ssbf is town too? My point exactly. However as I already explained if SSBF flips town, I am more inclined to believe that you are indeed insane. Think about it, 2 cops of the same alignment, or two cops of different alignments. So ssbf is the way to go.

Also If I say that you have a 50% chance of being insane or sane, being that the mod had an equal chance of picking either, and you say

The other 98% is just pure ridiculousness.

I would go for the 98% chance.

I want to hear what, Spyrex and nopo have to say about this, before I go and follow you guys.

Crypto- Do you have a 4 that you think can be trusted, as of right now, to be townies?

[hiphop]

^^I read it as OMGUSing.

[hiphop]

unvote, vote:Charter

He claims gunsmith.
Evidence for cops, but no evidence for gunsmiths.
ABSOLUTELY REFUSES TO LYNCH SANDO.
Sando = godfather
Sando lynch = confirming cop almost.

[hiphop]

^Scum

What? How? If llama is scum, how does that say Almaster is scum too? And if llama is town, how does that say Almaster is town?

Also if you believe charter is scum, why are you taking (what you say) a 50-50 chance?

Haha. In the last vote count llama is voting for himself and Charter. Since when did he become a double voter?

Since a majority of my town reads are voting for Llama, I will concede and vote with them, even though i would rather vote SSBF or charter.

But before I vote I want to hear what nopo's opinion is.

I will make one more push, in the fact that one of the cops must be scum. There is no guarentee that llama must be scum. Why put off what eventually must be done? We have to lynch one of the cops.

Llama you are at L-1, so claim.

[hiphop]

^scum is directed at SSBF

[hiphop]

Crypto voted for you Not my fault the mod messes up the vc. L-1, you can claim now.

Yes, I plan to follow my town reads. I have given my arguments for an SSBF lynch. If they cannot see it, then I must be bias. Either way, i do not plan to vote with possible scum, unless my town reads do too.

I really do not care, how your role works. It is not night, therefore whether you claim early in the day or later, it won't make a difference to scum, but it will to me. Just claim. Though, if you are a Pr, then the mod is insane.

[hiphop]

^I agree with Crypto's statement.

I think Charter's claim seemed like a town claim. Not because it was a counter claim, but the claim itself.

However SSBF's action of saying Almaster is innocent,

after

almaster's claim, rattles my cage. Why as scum would he do that? i really do not think scum would do that.(wifom)

i have been thinking about those two things for the last two days, yet I do not buy three cops. And I don't care what alignment they are, there are not three cops in this game.

SSBF's report, for me anyways, solidifies Almaster town. So scum is among one of the other 2.

I'll go with Charter.

vote charter

Also something that catches my eye is that Charter was supposedly roleblocked. Therefore if he were scum, no confirmed townies. Didn't somebody yesterday on the SSBF wagon say they didn't want to go through SSBF saying he was rb'd day after day. Yet it wasn't SSBF that said he was RB, it was Charter. Granted of course a roleblocker is common, but the fact that it was said before the night, and then he comes out and says it, irks me.

Guys think about this- Charter's claim does not match with the setup. Godfather, Miller. Are you saying that a gunsmith is in the game? I don't think so.

Llama still not going to claim? Your choice, not mine.

[hiphop]

Guys choose SSBF or Charter

[hiphop]

Llama- Miler's do not have guns. Period. Do you want me to repeat myself. I don't care what the mod said. For all I know Charter could be scum(most likely) so the reason the mod said he cannot say anything was because charter cannot investigate nopo. I mean the question was mod will nopo have a gun when Charter investigates him. And 2 if charter was a gunsmith, then if the mod answers that question, he would confirm that charter is a gunsmith, and nopo is town. Miller's do not have guns. Even go to the fact of what do miller's do? Do they need a gun in their jobs, that would be a no.

Crypto- Think about this. If you were scum and you had a godfather as your buddy. What would you claim? You know that with godfather's comes cops. Therefore if you were to claim cop, someone would counter claim. While if you were to claim gunsmith, if someone is a cop, they might or might not counterclaim you, but if they are lynched, you can still have the argument that a gunsmith can sometimes be with a cop. Then comes the fact of when to claim. Obviously you wouldn't claim unless you had too. If charter had not claimed there, when would be the time for charter to say he is a gunsmith, when he was about to be lynch, or when he wanted to make an argument that Ssbf being a cop can't exist? The first question would make the claim not believable and the second he would have to conterclaim.

Nopo-

What's wrong with a Cop/Gunsmith/Godfather/Miller set-up ?

keep saying that and you might get it. Everything is wrong about that setup. What is the point of having a godfather, when there is a gunsmith? What is the point of having a miller, when there is a gunsmith? There is no point, in fact the cop would be nothing but a VT, and everybody rides the gunsmith. My point exactly, the gunsmith is the odd man out. Also whether or not scum do have a RB (not proven), it only makes sense for Charter to say he was RB when he is scum. And the rest of your DEFENSE of charter is WIFOM.

As for why I believe SSBF is town, well, he gave an innocence on Almaster after Almaster's claim. He basically confirmed that Almaster is town not scum. Scum confirming a cop? Not happening. It would be better for him to say he investigated me or llama, or someone else. Certaintly not a PR.

Guys SSBF or Charter take your pick. I am not exactly sold on SSBF being town, so i won't whine if he is lynched.

[hiphop]

I was just going to say that if he's a deathmiller, the point is to make it so that we have absolutely no way of knowing if he is scum or town, before or after his lynch.

exactly, which is why charter is without a doubt scum. A gunsmith does not belong in this town.

[hiphop]

Spyrex what has changed from yesterday and today? You claimed that charter or SSBF has to be scum. You wagon heavily on SSBF. Yet right now you say, "I don't want to lynch either of them right now." Do or do you not believe that one of Charter or SSBF is scum? Then do something about it. Also do you believe that a gunsmith is present when we have a miller and godfather? Do you believe that the mod would make being a godfather or miller useless?

Almaster and Wicked- Do you guys remember the last game? We are not putting off tomorrow what can be accomplished today. Will we be doing this everytime until lylo. What is to happen then? We guess wrong? No,we have to make the choice now.

Who believes that a gunsmith is in the same game as a godfather? And yes a godfather HAS a gun. For he is the one that makes the kills.

CHARTER IS SCUM. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Look at the facts.

[hiphop]

@hiphop - I don't get it. Why would we lynch on speculation when we could lynch on verifiable claims.

1.Not exactly verified, when I believe llama is town, and I believe you are town. 2.Charter is scum. Does it honestly make sense to you, that there are three cops? Does it honestly make sense to you that there is a gunsmith when there is a miller and a godfather. Not to me. That fake would have worked in other games, but not this one. Like I said, why put off tomorrow what can be done today? Do you believe there are three cops? Why put off your decision? LLama's flip reveals nothing about the other two. Let me repeat, Nothing. So SSBF or Charter. Make your pick.

[hiphop]

It makes perfect sense, if SSBF isn't a cop then there is just a cop and a gunsmith. The cop is watered down because of the miller AND godfather, but the Gunsmith can find the godfather guilty and the miller innocent. He also, however, finds a gun on the cop, which makes his role dubious as well. Balance wise, it's relatively equal to having one sane cop and no godfather/miller, except more confusing.

BUT IF YOU INSIST, SSBF is definitely going down before charter, because there is no way there are two straight-up cops.

Therefore you agree with me. There are not three cops.

Why do people keep bringing up two staight-up cops? I believe you are insane. Therefore one insane and one sane. Makes a whole lot more sense then a gunsmith in a cop game.

And no spyrex llama is not a seperate issue. If SSBF flips town, llama is town. If Charter flips scum, that would make me believe ssbf is town, so llama is town.

Charter is scum. quote me on that.

[hiphop]

I think he's presuming that, if SSBF is a sane town cop, then I'd have to be insane as a counterbalance and llama would thus be innocent, not guilty.

hiphop why is the only way to resolve this by lynching ssbf or charter. why can't we just lynch llama and if he flips town THEN you look at charter.

You are correct, as I have explained several times.

Simple, I believe llama is town. And SSBF or Charter's flip will only confirm my beliefs. I am more sure that one of them is scum, than llama being scum. Therefore we should lynch one of them. Hopefully charter.

If we lynch charter today I will explode. This whole "charter is scum" thing REVOLVES around SSBF telling the truth and there being two cops. WHICH ISN'T TRUE. SSBF claimed YESTERDAY under lynch pressure. One of the ONLY reasons he was not lynched was because of that claim. This is a SIMPLE case of scum fakeclaiming cop and then getting counterclaimed. I don't see why everyone is so willing to believe this far-fetched story of bastard-mod paranoia.

Almaster I am not listening to your emotions. You said you were not going to lynch Sando either. Look what he flipped.

When i was playing marathon mafia, I was a cop once. I have never been a cop, that has been able to use his action and live to tell about it, so I was extremely nervous. So when a wagon was built up on me, I was scared. So scared that at L-2, I posted something like, should I claim now, in a way that budja instantly said I was town. I too would have claimed cop under pressure My point i making is I too would have claimed when SSBF did. i wouldn't even give scum the chance to quick hammer me. So his claim does not make him scum.

It could be he has his gun hidden somewhere and thus would appear innocent to a gunsmith. I admit that it's a crazy idea, and I agree with you that Charter is scum.

If it is crazy, why mention it? A godfather has a gun. A gunsmith makes the guns. Therefore a gunsmith would know if the godfather has a gun. If a gunsmith investigates a godfather he would find a gun. A gunsmith is not in this game.

If you agree with me that charter is scum, why isn't your vote on Charter? SSBF and Charter are not scum together. No way. One counterclaims the other. Not happening. So put your vote where your mouth his. Lynching a cop just to prove your innocence does not appeal to me. Lynching a cop because you believe him to be scum, should be your reason. I won't have a problem with an SSBF lynch, because I could be wrong about Charter, but I doubt it.

If I was scum, why would I just not say that Nopoint has a gun? ... Why would I fake a roleblocking on myself instead of roleblocking SSBF?
I'm not following any of your other accusations against me. I've been in a game with a gunsmith and a miller, probably multiples. You're just speculating on the setup to try and lynch me.

Because when he is lynched, it will come back to bite you.

You can't roleblock if you are not a roleblocker, can you? Therefore fake rb.

Why aren't you voting SSBF? Do you believe that there are three cops? Is Almaster scum? Therefore SSBF must be scum, yet you are not voting for him, but for Llama. So either A llama must have a greater chance of getting lynched(scummy), or B you believe that there is a greater chance of llama being scum, then there being three cops,or Almaster being town. I don't believe B, so A must be true. Therefore you are scum.

Spyrex and Almaster- A gunsmith is sort of a cop. So either way you are accepting two straight up cops.

mod: What the heck? Why hasn't SSBF been prodded? Not posting in 6 days is a little extreme. What happened to this rule?

9. Failure to post within a 72 hour period will result in a prod. Failure to respond to a prod within 48 hours will result in replacement.

It does not say players must ask for a prod. Please find a remedy for this error. Thanks

[hiphop]

In the interest of game integrity, I don't think there should be an open debate on this. People have different motivations and this discussion creates a optimization subgame of sorts, where the scum have to try and push the least damaging option to their team while still trying to appear protown.

Mistakes happen. The mod should just make a decision and move on.

I agree. Just go with your original suggestion hayker.

[hiphop]

Three scum? arg.....

That means the remaining scum are in {crypto, SpyreX, and Wickedestjr}.

QFT

vote Wicked

Told you charter was scum.

I am actually lost right now. I thought with llama's flip pretty much sealed the deal that charter was town, because then a gunsmith could be in this game. Truth be told, I was only attacking him, because of the setup.

I am even sceptic about nopo's claim now. I don't get a town read from him, but his claim is keeping me from voting him. Besides I have to trust someone besides Almaster. Oh, well. Let's lynch Wicked.

(By the way, it was I who told the mod that llama wasn't lynched. Also I was thinking of voting for him, though unsure if i wanted to, after I read Spyrex's case.)

SPYREX AND CRYPTO VOTE WITH ME

[hiphop]

I got no result. I'm guessing that's a roleblock to the face.

This game just got sooooooooo much more confusing.

I have a problem with this. Not that it is anything you did.

See, it is like this-Charter said he got roleblocked and he was scum. Now you say you got RB. So what happened night 2? Why wasn't SSBF targeted? I also don't like how SSBF is so willing to say I am town, yet the other 3 unclaim roles are scum candidates.

Then we have the counterclaim. Charter counterclaiming his buddy? What? Not only that but he just said that he got a result of guilty on Charter. Because I believe that we only have 3 scum in 11 players, then there can only be one scum left. If SSBF is scum, Almaster is town.(one scum left) However if SSBF is town, Almaster is town(got an innocent on him). No questions asked he confirmed Almaster. Scum confirming town? What?

I just don't get it. I am just going to have think about it.

I do suggest the remaining townies role claim, just so the roles are set and scum don't pull a fast one. Not that I think there are any roles left.

Let's do popcorn. I claim vanilla, or should I say plain old vanilla ice cream?(Right, Almaster ) Wicked claim next please.

Wicked and I are the only ones alive that at the end of both days were voting confirmed scum. Wicked put the hammer vote on Sando. ( scum move perhaps), but he put the 3rd vote on charter. Like i said, I am lost. Perhaps if someone can give a good argument for someone as scum, i shall follow.

nopo-Almaster can only be scum if SSBF is scum. So if you find Almaster's claim fishy, vote SSBF.

[hiphop]

ok, not Wicked.

unvote

vote Crypto

[hiphop]

ok guys, crypto or Spyrex.

Spyrex do you remember the last game we played in? I was scum, and you said I was scum, yet you never seemed to push for my lynch? Perhaps the same thing is happening here with SSBF.

Also, I am of the opinion, currently, that nopo is scum, before SSBF is. Why can't nopo be scum?

[hiphop]

Nopo makes absolutely no sense as scum.

Why not? Please explain.

And Spyrex i don't care how much wicked is a non-entity. I get a town read from him, as much as you get a town read from me.

So why didn't the mafia use roleblock on the 1st round on SSBF?
Of whom, AGM and SSBF are pretty much confirmed town.

Funny how you say these two sentences in the same paragraph.

In answer to your first question-Is it perhaps SSBF is scum?
And for your second sentence-Why is SSBF town to you?

For me personally SSBF, Almaster and Wicked can join me in cleaning the rest of you up.

And I iso'd Crypto. At one point he had charter and Sando as town. Never once attacking either.

[hiphop]

Nopo- why is crypto different that spyrex?

[hiphop]

Hold on, I'll iso Crypto after lunch xD

I'll do Spyrex tomorrow morning.

Off to bed.

[hiphop]

Ok. I would be happy with a spyrex or crypto lynch. Preferably crypto, because I believe he has been more scummy than spyrex, but either one works. Also answer my question

Why is SSBF town to you?

Wicked- you were taken off. I don't like your on again off again play. Had to iso you again to prove to me that you were town. So 691 you were put back on. Please claim.

Almaster- as a confirmed townie please use your voice more.

[hiphop]

I'm additionally on record that if this is a town flip llama dies soon.

And if that is a scum flip podium dies.

In the bolded portion of this post you say that if Sando flips scum that podium dies. I assume by "dies" you mean "gets lynched the next day" otherwise the underlined portion of this post makes no sense. If Sando flipping scum makes you want to lynch podium that implies you think Sando and podium could be scumbuddies. That makes no sense to me.

Read it again. He said if Sando flips town llama is the next to go, and if

llama flips scum

podium goes. Not hard to understand. The only reason I am answering for him is because you are heading down the wrong path for his lynch.

[hiphop]

Damnit hiphop let them fall father down that way. Not one but TWO people harping up that tree?

What are you talking about?

[hiphop]

Damnit hiphop let them fall father down that way. Not one but TWO people harping up that tree?

Oh i get it. Missed SSBF. Why did you want them going down that path?

[hiphop]

Almaster- why is SSBF town?

Crypto, hiphop, and Wicked could just as easily be scum as SpyreX.

Show me how I could be scum. Just give me one example. Have you forgotten that is was a comment by ME that caused Podium to put his vote back on Sando and drive a wagon to his lynch? It was I who was leading the Charter wagon yesterday. So now I am just bussing scum. Not just one but two of them. Unless of course you come with the argument he must have known they were scum. Just like wicked must have known that llama was town.


I am going to go ahead to argue against the Wicked case. First off I argued that llama was strongly town here And this read came despite a cop claim to the contrary. To explain my reads, I argued first(way before wicked did) that Almaster is insane and SSBF is telling the truth. I made this read despite the complete reversal from the prior day where I fos and voted him here
And as for this lovely piece of work

So, according to Wicked, because Sando flipped scum, suddenly:

1) I'm insane cop
2) SSBF is now a sane cop, not scum
3) And Llama is town.

Instead of the much simpler, more cohesive theory of

1) Llama is scum.

The switch here makes absolutely no sense ... but he somehow ended up being RIGHT. To me, this looks like he knew what the flips were going to be ahead of time and decided to base his reads accordingly ... without checking what his prior position was. Which is what lead to the logical incoherence.

According to me, not wicked. It was Me, MYself, and I that came up with the whole you are insane, SSBF is sane, and llama is town, despite the illogical, out of the ball park theory of LLama is scum, when I believed that llama was town. The switch made absolutely, beyond a doubt sense, and I was right. It was because some people cannot see the fact that once someone flips scum, connections, connections, connnections. And Charter had connections and did not fit the setup. Which if that were the case SSBF and LLama were town. I decided to base my reads according to the setup, despite flipping from my previous stance. Am I supposed to keep the same reads reads throughout the game, and be as stubborn as you? Or should I do the simpler, more cohesive part of flipping the reads as I see fit?

Your argument against Wicked is forced, and completely points to me as scum. Why wicked instead of me? Also notice how what I just did completely fits my scum meta that I defened town, and bussed both scum. Just like the game that you and I played in, though nothing like the game after that one where I was scum in the game with Spyrex.

Truly look at his actions between him and scum day 1. Doesn't look like bussing to me. And now for the icing on the cake...And, from my perspective, I'm town and Wicked has made a lot of arguments that made sense to me. And you can't just say "it's buddying." I logically agree with his thought process. This means 1) I'm not inclined to think he is scum because of arguments he's making, because those could just as easily apply to me and 2) He hasn't really done anything else particuarily scummy, so I have no reason to suspect him over anyone else. Hmm...Same thing you said of spyrex.

Not only that but every single one of your reads has been off this game. Who said Sando was town? Who said Charter was town? Who said llama was scum? I believe it was you. So tell me, why should I or anyone believe that Wicked is scum?

You believe Spyrex to be town, I believe Wicked to be town, so just vote Crypto.

Spyrex- I don't understand. Why did you want them going down that path? Misunderstanding is not a scum tell. If it was, I would be scum for going after Podium on misunderstanding. Is it possible that your wording of that line leads to misunderstanding? Possible because 2 people went after it. Though I don't know why they waited 2 days before finally coming out with it. Why didn't they mention it yesterday?

[hiphop]

Wait something's fishy. Since Charter's scum, I thought we have no roleblocker? So why does AGM get No Result?

This is a good question. We have to remember that charter flipped vanilla Mafia, which is the equilvalent of a Mafia Goon. The other scum flip, Sando, was from Day 1, who was a Mafia Godfather. With AlmasterGM being roleblocked, I assume that the last scum is indeed a roleblocker. The roleblocking probably isn't town-intended either, further solidfying my theory that the last scum could be a roleblocker.

You don't get it? Do you? He is saying charter(scum) claimed to be roleblocked. If he is scum, why would he say he was roleblocked? If there is a scum roleblocker, why would he come out and say he was roleblocked? Isn't he taking a chance, that the person who was roleblocked, could come out and say that charter is lying scum? So if scum-charter said he was roleblocked, and town Almaster said he was roleblocked, then charter took a gamble that the real person who was roleblocked didn't come out and reveal him.

WICKED CLAIM.

stop avoiding it.

[hiphop]

@hiphop on SSBF - the many cop counters (godfather, roleblocker, miller, AND insanity) plus the lack of charter gunsmith lead me to believe that there are two cops. Also, miller plus godfather plus insane cop is weird. Why not just have those with a sane cop?

Is that all? Also is this the same Almaster that posted these-

@SSBF - I think we should lynch llama before you. If he flips town, then I'm insane and you

might

be cop.

notice the might. Might be cop, not is.

because there is no way there are two straight-up cops.

it's simple logic saying that SSBF had a huge incentive to fakeclaim cop yesterday because he was scummy then and he's scummy now, so there's no reason we should believe his gambit.

hiphop, it's like 2% wifom. The other 98% is just pure ridiculousness.

And even the wifom is stretchy. Scum gambit of letting claimed cop SSBF live is this early in the game is VERY risky.

If you lynch llama and he flips town, then we know I'm insane and there is a

chance

SSBF is telling the truth and we have a cop.

Here it is again. A chance. Not confirmed like he now says.

God, why are we arguing with the scum about this. There is no way this whole "two cops, one's insane" or "AGM is lying" garbage is true. This is an easy, simple case of SCUM GETTING CAUGHT LYING.

Why the dramatic flip? You didn't believe it then, so why believe it now? You even said there was no way there could be two straight up cops.

Also you missed my point- Why Wicked over me?

And as for Wicked claiming. We are having a mass claim today. Why wait? Get everything on the table and no fake claiming in lylo. Simple logic and the correct play. There are only three people who have not claimed, and they better.

[hiphop]

BUT IF YOU INSIST, SSBF is definitely going down before charter,

because there is no way there are two straight-up cops.

Explain this for me.

And you better think about it.

[hiphop]

yet it still comes down to the fact, of why wasn't SSBF roleblocked day 1? Is he scum? not roleblocking or killing the cop for two nights? Something is fishy? Also llama wouldn't protect SSBF, being that llama was voting SSBF. So why not kill SSBF? I feel like throwing all crypto wagon out the window, and going after SSBF.

[hiphop]

I'm a Vanilla Townie. I would like crypto to claim next.

Thank you.

Spyrex and almaster have either of you iso'd crypto? Do so, and tell me what you think of him. Don't vote for him until we have all claims, but tell me what you think.

As for SSBF- Scum are taking a risky chance that he is alive. Every investigation he gets off, confirms town or scum. That fact that he was not killed last night sets alarms off in my head. Llama would not save him, so it is an easy kill, yet it wasn't done. Why?

[hiphop]

mod prod Crypto

[hiphop]

The thing that gives me the most pause about crypto is the "why aren't you voting ME" callout at this juncture.

unvote
vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan

[hiphop]

Hiphop, we are not having a SSBF lynch today because it is stupid.

No, it isn't. You refused to answer my question that I have posted twice now, so he is scum. Here I will post it again

Why is SSBF town to you?

. Will explain my thought process tomorrow.

[hiphop]

My thought process. We have Almaster, nopo, Crypto, Spyrex, wicked, SSBF,.

As already stated Almaster is confirmed town, not taking in account of redirectors, or busdrivers, since they are not usually used on this forum.

Then we have nopo. Nopo was non-existent until today, in which I find he has produced a few town tells this post and this post are just a few. So calling him town.

Crypto is neither town nor scum. He has shown nothing to me that puts him as town or scum. Until here At first I ignored it on the iso, but after Spyrex pointed it out, and thinking about it some more, I can't see scum doing that.

So Spyrex. To me he has been town ever since twilight of the Sando lynch, where even then he has said he would much rather lynch SSBF. Scum bussing scum, and then saying after the lynch is done that another lynch is prefered. I see it as a townie move, but I have done it as scum. Either way that still puts him above Crypto. And a post like this is still seen is a townie light and not scummy.

Wicked, Wicked, Wicked. Completely a non-entity. Ok in the beginning of day 1, but since, absolutely nothing. I find that he parrots and completely unhelpful, but he does have a voting pattern on scum. Which of course gives me the most pause on him.

SSBF-Lurky, Lurkity, Lurker. Shall i say scummy? Of course. He was scummy day 1, day 2, and now day 3. Take his recent case on Spyrex(where his vote is). He said that spyrex is scum, because he said charter was town. Almaster said he wasn't lynching charter, does that make him scum too? Crypto rebuffed his argument and the only thing he has said agaisnt spyrex was a point that wasn't even true. Yet he continues to keep his vote on Spyrex. Not only that but saying someone is a different alignment just because they had an argument is completely floundering. What makes you so sure that Crypto and Spyrex cannot be two townies. I had an argument with Alamaster. We must be different alignments. Spyrex is ssbf scummy? Crypto is SSBF scummy? nopo is ssbf scummy? Wicked is SSBF scummy? Almaster is SSBf scummy? Why don't we go back to playing mafia and actually lynch the scummiest person?

As for the gambit of charter counter-claiming- like scum don't do gambits. I mean how many people here, would think that scum would counter-claim day 1. Even more unlikely counter-claiming scum. The perfect distancing combination. Keep in mind that Charter did not vote SSBF until the start of day 2, in which he changed for a llama wagon, even though there was a SSBF wagon.

And now for setup speculation- Almaster how many cops do you usually put in your games? Spyrex and wicked- same question. The answer from what I can see is 1. If a cop knows he is insane, then he is a regular cop. Right? So, why is SSBF here? Why would there be 2 cops with only 11 people? I played in a 25 person game, where there was only one. just because there is a insane cop, doesn't mean there is a sane one. In fact if we didn't know that SSBF is a possible cop, we would only think there is one. I don't believe 2 cops is feasible with 11 players, especially since one of the cops is scummy.

Also since there is a roleblocker and no doctor, Almaster and SSBF will not get any more results. So I ask you, why wait till tomorrow?

So who should I really vote for? Common sense says SSBF.

Am I the only one who thinks this post is bs. 1) my argument with Almaster was basically me arguing that you were town and saying Almaster's case was horrible (are you saying that it was a good case, that shouldn't be disputed?), and me arguing why Almaster has flipped on SSBF, when he is scummy.(Can't even argue about who is scummy anymore) I am for scum for that? HA. and 2) how is my case on SSBF wifom, when I hadn't presented it yet? Did you not read the last sentence in this quote, or are you assumung things? Scum for that? Go find a better case.

Oh spyrex you are last- CLAIM.

[hiphop]

1> Why not decide for a SSBF lynch tomorrow if he's still alive? If he's the real cop the scum would put himself in jeopardy by leaving him alive. If SSBF is the last scum, we would have more reasons to believe he's scum since he's alive. ( And if he's roleblocked, AGM would not be ).
2> Take a look at his post #22, I think it's pretty much a town read ( despite his incessant scumminess later on ).
3> If there's no sane cop then what's the purpose of a godfather in the set-up?

1.one cop is roleblocked(ssbf), and the other dies(if SSBF is town). No doc, no town roleblocker, no way to make scum do what town wants<---known facts. Why wait when he is the scummiest of the bunch?
2. no it is not. Why would he be town because of this?
3.if there is a insane cop then a godfather would come up guily, a miller innocent, town guilty, and goons innocent. Why is it so hard to understand this?

What do any of these points have to do with charter?

[hiphop]

^I am actually using the game that we played in, and saying only one cop in this setup is not that bad compared to that game.

Also you will die tonight. Tell me one reason why you will not. So roleblocking SSBF until he gets lynched is no big deal. So why not now?

[hiphop]

guys I am really sorry. I know it has been three days since my last meaningful post, but I just came off of a hectic day. So if you bear with me, I can write it tomorrow. Thanks.

[hiphop]

1.Yeah, and that game was terribly unbalanced.DAMN IT, I want to outguess the mod so badly. But this setup seems like it would punish that sooo incredibly hard.

2.I do agree with you, though, that SSBF is objectively the scummiest person here. However, I have also been wrong about SSBF being scum like 3 times now, so my ability to read him is crap.

1. Would you like for me to point to another game? this In this 25 person game I was the godfather, spyrex was the miller, and we had one cop. In that game, town had an excellent chance of winning, even after I killed the unknown(then) cop day 3. Here we have 12 people. Same 3 roles. Seems balanced to me. In one night the cops could confirm 2 people and then there would be 4 confirmed townies, so all town must do is sweep the rest. Do you honestly think that cops is the way to go?

2. Just because you have been wrong before, does not mean that you are wrong now. in the last game I did not think he was scum, but i did not have the time to make a case on why he was not scum, when I was on the fence about him. So I didn't talk about him. As you know, I replaced out shortly afterwards. So I didn't know then, but I believe he is scum now, does that make a difference to you?

If what you insist is true, you're not going to die today, so you can push for SSBF lynch tomorrow. Right now let's just do one of Crypto/Spyrex.

why not ssbf today, and you can push for a Crypto/Spyrex tomorrow? Think about it. You lynch one today and it is a town flip, do you really think you would follow me to SSBF? NO. You obviously would go for the other. So why should I lynch people who you think are scum, and 2 days from now, most likely when i am dead, nobody pushes for a SSBF lynch? Today is the best day to push for it.

1)Why did you feel the need to show why Almaster's case was bad?
2)Your argument was that SSBF had to be scum because he hadn't been killed yet. That is WIFOM. Also, what made SSBF surviving any different from Almaster surviving?

1. I do not like it when people make a bad case, and others join in before the person has a chance to defend himself. This is only false advertising and time wasting. I would rather question and show them it is bad so they can reexamine and reconstruct their case before the defendant can defend himself against a good case instead of not really showing any alignment when defending against a bad one. i don't think it is a good thing for bad cases to be tossed around, when town could put a little more effort into and actually catch scum.
2. Wrong. Stop strawmanning me. Go read this case again and tell me that wifom is my case. As for your actual question. How should I know why Almaster is alive? From what i can see, llama would have protected me, so either one of them wold have been an easy kill. Besides Almaster was RB, what happened to SSBF? Keep in mind that llama was voting for SSBF, so he would have not of protected him. Letting a cop get another investigation, is pure pathetic on scum's part.

Why don't we go back to playing mafia and actually lynch the scummiest person?

And now for setup speculation-...

You're suggesting that we go back to lynching the scummiest person in the game. Then you do setup speculation. Set-up speculation is not parallel with scum hunting and definently not the most important thing to do in a Mafia game.

Except that I doing both. They kind of support each other. If I scum hunt, why shouldn't i also speculate on what makes sense to me? Think like mafia, think like the mod. I don't care about wifom or set-up speculation, if it helps support the scum hunting part and helps me catch scum, then I will use it. Now if I was just doing set-up speculation without the scum-hunting part then you can complain, however i am not, so it doesn't matter.

It isn't simply because "SpyreX thought charter was town, therefore, SpyreX is scum". As explained before, he explictly defended charter's claim Day 1 while attacking mine and mentioned a few times Day 2 that charter was town. I

personally

take that as scum buddying scum... The reason why I haven't really said much about SpyreX connection between him and charter is because he hasn't really attempt to refute my original argument in the first place. However, I will happily provide quote evidence of SpyreX's connection between him and charter.

WIFOM. Unless someone speaks up and says otherwise(to lazy to go skim day one) I am pretty sure that everybody thought charter's claim day 1 was legit, and you were more likely scum. Not only that but you are using omgus in this argument, by saying he was attacking me, when charter made the more townie move in counter-claiming day 1, and there wasn't anything day 1 that said otherwise. As for him calling charter town day 2-just because you know

your alignment

does not mean that people should follow you, especially when you make cases like this. And also the majority of the town was either
A) unsure of charter
B)thought he was town
So really there is no case. You're kind of stretching.

Also, is anyone beside me is getting gut feelings that hiphop might be scum? Granted, I'm not going to be pushing for his lynch yet since the evidences support that he is town, but the gut town feeling is not really there anymore. Maybe I need to look him up in ISO to see if it's more then gut feeling.

So did you find anything? Don't leave me hanging. Either i am town or not. What is it? i hope this isn't another OMGUS move.

Also, is anyone beside me is getting gut feelings that hiphop might be scum?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

no

I don't get it spyrex. I really don't. You and Almaster have played with me in one game each, and I was scum in both, yet you guys have this ridiculous town read on me. I even get the impression that you would rather have yourself lynch(known alignmnet) over me(unknown). I would think that maybe you have an inkling that i might be scum, yet you don't show it. Either way it is your reads, but you have me baffled.

I still don't get why I'm on the hot seat. I can see lazy play being it and I couldn't really blame you if that's the reason but that doesn't seem to be what people are getting at.

For me it is the lazy play. Neither scum nor town. It is that simple.

Nopo give me one more day, before i give my 2. I am about to make another case on someone, but I don't want to call them out now, and have them go crazy about blah and then strawman me later, when i haven't made the actual case yet. Don't have time tonight, but it will be done tomorrow.

[hiphop]

Well, I've read everything except for hiphop's last post but I'm pretty sure some of the questions/comments in my previous post have been ignored.

Funny thing is, he is right. Though it is strange how he can be pretty sure of something that he hasn't read.

@The comments regarding me -

1. My inactivity has been the exact same in my other game that just ended and the game I'm modding. It's not just this game.
2. Where are the parroting accusations coming from? I've come up with many of my own points against players.

Did not realize these comments were directed at me.
1. It is not about the inactivity. It is about contributing to the game. If you are hard to read, do not blame me. It is your job, to be townie if you are townie, not my job to say you are townie, because your activity level is the same as other games. That is not the point. I believed I used the word non-entity, as in non-factor, and that is what I mean. It seems to me that you are not contributing to the game,almost floating by, and that is scummy.

2.here and here are a couple of examples. Again your missing the point, it is was about the fact that you felt the need to repeat sometimes.

Wicked if you are going to suspect me, at least have the decency to tell me why. Also, why do you feel it necessary to let SSBF live a couple of extra days?

By the way the case I promised yesterday just went out the window. Everytime i iso wicked, I get straight up town. And i mean everytime. i thought maybe I could bypass the town part, but I can't, the guy is town.

So i guess my two will be SSBF followed crypto. From what i can see it has to be one of those 2.

Crypto- would you do me the honor and tell me why spyrex is scum?

Almaster-Does it really matter if you are insane or sane? You are a cop, who can use your role to find scum. Can you not? SSBF is a cop(so he says), who can use his role to find scum. Is there a difference? Seriously, look at the facts. Tell me the difference between SSBF and wicked. Who really is more scummy? Also I don't want to prove myself scum, if you cannot see the point, just forget about it.

mod extension?

[hiphop]

Crypto you unvoted. Please put your vote on someone, or at least say who you are most suspicious of.

So yeah, insane cop + deathmiller + godfather is PRETTY DIFFERENT from just sane cop.

You forgot ELITE bodyguard. Not just any bodyguard, but elite. Godfather makes the kills, bodyguard kills the godfather. Done deal. That leaves us with the death miller. Which just so happens to be innocent with your investigation. So what are you complaining about? Can you really explain to me how SSBF managed to get through 2 nights without being roleblocked or killed? What was that quote- 2% wifom and 98% ridicules. and that was just for one night, now that we have two, I wonder what the percentages are.

And this matters because, in my opinion, SSBF is only marginally comparable to other scummy people in the game. Compare him and crypto - why is SSBF THAT much more scummy such that it's worth overlooking the cop issue?

why is crypto scum? You have yet to mention anything today, from my memory, of why crypto is scum?

Funny thing is, he is right. Though it is strange how he can be pretty sure of something that he hasn't read.

You weren't the only player who hadn't responded to everything in my post and I had read everything except your post.

So why did you assume that I missed something? You make it sound like i did it on purpose. My name is hiphop, I am not connected to anyone else.

Did not realize these comments were directed at me.
2.[A:here] and [B:here] are a couple of examples. Again your missing the point, it is was about the fact that you felt the need to repeat sometimes.

They weren't necessarily directed at you.
2. A was a post of podium's and B was a post in which I explained why AlmasterGM was confirmed town. I don't see how I am parroting.

Then I didn't miss anything, yet you assumed I did.
2.points, not case.

My reasons for suspecting were mostly a strange gut feeling combined with the points I brought up today. I think SSBF should live because he is very likely town. Why would charter CC SSBF?

There were no points. The question is not why would he CC SSBF, but why would he CC SSBF-town Day 1?

Also the way you made it sound, "live a couple more days." i take it that you eventually wanted his lynch. Not "I want SSBF to live", but live a coupe of more days. This of course would mean that he is at worst #3 on your scumlist. Now you say that he is very likely town, which of course implies that the is actually much closer to the top. So which is it.

Why is SSBF very likely town?

By the way the case I promised yesterday just went out the window. Everytime i iso wicked, I get straight up town. And i mean everytime. i thought maybe I could bypass the town part, but I can't, the guy is town.

Didn't you just say this:

It is not about the inactivity. It is about contributing to the game.

If you are hard to read, do not blame me.

It is your job, to be townie if you are townie, not my job to say you are townie, because your activity level is the same as other games. That is not the point. I believed I used the word non-entity, as in non-factor, and that is what I mean. It seems to me that you are not contributing to the game,almost floating by, and that is scummy.

? Also, what was the case?

quote 2 refers to day 3, with a memory of day 1 that you were not that town, quote 1 is after the complete iso. The case was expansion of quote 2 with connections, but it was no good, after an iso of part 1 of day 1.

1. If I remember correctly, I remember nopointinacting up calling BS on charter's claim Day 1. Not everyone thought charter's claim was legitimate.

2. By Day 1, are you including the lynch scene? If so, the Day 1 lynch scene definently didn't favor charter's claim.

3. You, me, llamaeatataco, and Wickedestjr on Day 2 thought that charter was likely scum. When you take charter out of equation, that's eight people. Which means that 50% thought charter was likely scum, 50% thought otherwise.

1.You did.
2.obviously not.
3.llama was voting you. He was also in record that one of you was scum. Being that he was voting you, he was more confident that you were scum over charter. That of course puts him in the unsure category. Which makes less than 50%. I will go one further and say that less than 50% of the current players(which is all that matters) did not support a charter lynch. So why do you use that point against Spyrex?

The reason I believe I will surive is because out of all the games I have played, the town vig and mafia have never nk'd me. ( I am excluding the time where I replaced in and scum nk'd me.) Therefore I assume the mods make me un-NK'd-able. If I am nk'd tonight I would probably laugh for a whole week. Maybe.

How do you know that you're going to survive the entire game without being NK'd? The only way you can possibly be absolutely confident is that if you were scum yourself and if you avoided suspicion from enough people to be lynched. You have been scum at least twice, once you were lynched and once you survived to the end. If you're town, your theory can easily be proven wrong by being NK'd in this game.

most likely when i am dead

What made you change your opinion on you saying you'll most likely avoid a Night Kill? Do you think there's a chance that you'll be lynched? Are you taking back your theory that you are not going to be NK'd in this game? Or is it something else entirely?

What? Do you stalk me?:D
1. Do you know what a joke is? If not look it up here 1st quote was not meant to be taken seriously.
2. If scum killed me in spite, then I did my job as a vanilla. In which case without llama, I wold most likely be dead already. If i get nk'd <--best thing for a vanilla.
3. The only opinion I ever had was the 2nd quote. Dead by night 4 at the earliest.
4. Do you honestly think that scum will not kill me? I believe a very high percentage that I will. Once thought as town by everyone here, and the only one currently not on that path is scum.
5. Where is the case tha ti asked for?

Nopo- the complete case on SBBF will have to wait. Especially being that it is late, and i might not be here for the lynch.

Deathmiller- How many of you guys think that the deathmiller is town?(nopo please do not comment on this question till all have responded.) With only 3 scum if we lynch nopo and the we have another day then nopo was town, however it is in town's best interest that he be lynched today, tomorrow, or not at all. I think he is town, so I am in favor of him living till end game or being nk'd.

mod starting right now- I will possibly be V/la till monday night. If I post tomorrow then no I am not, but if i don't, then yes. So an extension, if possible, if not the whole extra week then at least till Tuesday.

[hiphop]

vote spyrex

good game guys.

crazy

Though still not exactly sure how ssbf is town.

So if spyrex roleblocked SSBF and killed Almaster, SSBF must be lying?

So SSBf are you really a vanilla, who fake claimed?

Spyrex may have looked town (perhaps the buddying was giving me a town read) a no-lynch yesterday was not the correct move Almaster.

[hiphop]

Also Spyrex why did you kill Podium day 1, and not SSBF? Did you RB him night 1?

[hiphop]

Spyrex already admitted he was scum by saying this

All I know is there better be a town roleblocker or I'm angry.

As i said, Almaster was killed, so Spyrex's action went through. He also RB'd SSBF, yet SSBf got a result . How? There is nothing, and i repeat nothing that will stop spyrex's rb from going through, but it didn't.

Also Spyrex who did you try to kill night 2?

At least I was 2 for 3 on scum. Not bad.

[hiphop]

Sorry lost internet access yesterday.

So I guess this is the time where we tell the mod any ideas in how to make the game better.

Town Cop

You are a town cop. You may choose one person each night to investigate in order to discover their alignment. If they are town you will receive a "town" result, and if they are mafia, a "mafia" result. Of course you have your voice and vote in the day phase.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated

I do believe if you are going to have an insane cop, at least make it known that they have sanity issues. This hints that the person who received this role is sane, when Almaster was clearly not.

Also I never was a big fan of scum cannot be roleblocked. For me that is just insane. Is it not scum's role to kill someone? So why not roleblocked? And being that they can still die from an elite bodyguard makes my case even stronger. If this were the case we should have podium alive and charter lynched day 2, because he was roleblocked night 1.

So can one of the mafia tell me why a known cop was not roleblocked or killed night 1?

Also the funny thing is Sando gave away that Wicked was his partner (which at that time Sando believed he was), but if Wicked hadn't (from my perspective) shown that he wasn't I would have gone after him day 2 as well as charter.

I suppose you could argue that. You would have shown as miller on a kill though.

Now that is a funny role. He would have been shown as mafia if he were lynched, and miller if he was killed. From that perspective nopo you may as not say anything about your role.

Spyrex except for the buddying I would never have believed you were scum.

Crypto can you show me the meta on Spyrex?

[hiphop]

im glad you were scum spyrex, it makes up for the arguing... lol.

You argued with me too, yet I wasn't scum.