Mini 1069 - Hospital Madness Mafia (Game Over!)

[Exe]

Vote: Cooldawg

for not being for an impossible lynch.

[Exe]

Reread my post.
My bad about the name.

[Exe]

Also, just for clarification:

It's not a good idea because lynching the mod means: no more vote counts, no dead thread, no more lynches (he has to close the thread, post death scenes, etc.), and no more night phases. You see without a mod we don't have much of a game do we? Thus we shouldn't lynch the mod.

This is rarely true.

Either way, it's impossible because the point is moot.

[Exe]

Unvote. Vote: TheLonging

Obvious wagon.

[Exe]

It's not L-2. It's L-3.
Uprising, what do you think of the players on the wagon?

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Unvote. Vote: Nobody Special

What exactly are you afraid of? Why are you so nervous about lynching TL and why do you have to distance yourself from any accountability by claiming you're still in the RVS? The latter is a big red flag to me.

[Exe]

NS you fail to address the points I made.

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He's not playing smart, but he's town.

Psh, not playing smart my ass. I've caught scum with my strategy multiple times now.

[Exe]

He's not playing smart, but he's town.

Psh, not playing smart my ass. I've caught scum with my strategy multiple times now.

CEB begs to differ otherwise e_e

CEB was a large, and my first game back at mafia. It was an exception.

Though, I DID call Reck being anti-town, though I never said it out loud...you'll just have to believe me on that one.

[Exe]

Stop projecting your mediocrity and fearfulness on me, plzkthx.

ROFLMYWAFFLE!!!!
My fearfulness? What fearfulness is that? I'm not the one afraid of a wagon...you can tell by the fact that, unlike you, I didn't unvote.
Plus, your

ad hominem

is noted.

RVS lasts far longer than anyone ever acknowledges. I feel I am doing a Public Service by pointing this out as often as possible.

No. RVS lasts as long as scummy players need to use it to backtrack and reduce accountability.
And your attempt to gain townie points with "Lol, I am doing a public service" is noted as well.

[Exe]

BV310 hasn't posted yet.
NS is hella scummy right now. Piggybacking on the Chesskid wagon to save his skin is obvious.
Chesskid wagon is pretty strong with 4 people, though I really don't see the merit in it. The late joiners to the wagon are weak as hell.
Cooldog, why is your vote on Tasky?

@Parama:

I think Moo is on the Chesskid wagon. I could be wrong.

Fixed'd.

Wingless needs to improve his grammar. That's annoying as hell.

[Exe]

ebwop:

Parama

^^

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@exe, you read parama's chart wrong. Tasky is voteing for me because "He's scummy!". I am counted as voteing for TLing

Woops yeah, I am retarded.

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Chesskid is playing worse than ever... I have a sinking suspicion he's town though. Either way, a lynch is not yet in order.
NS is still obvscum, but he hasn't posted since the last time I said that so nothing has really changed.

chesskid3 - TheLonging, Moospiker, Nobody Special, Wingless, CooLDoG, Zang

I am pretty much certain there is scum somewhere on this wagon. It's rare enough that 6 town members agree on something, especially so quickly.
Reads of each, based on their votes:

TL: First voter suggests he isn't scum, but it's certainly possible. TL, your vote-posts don't say a whole lot about Chesskid, anything more you'd like to say about that?
Moospiker: Vote suggests he doesn't actually understand what's being said...appears to be calling out Chesskid for hypocrisy, but I don't see it. Moospiker, can you give more justification to your vote?
NS: craplogic here. Evasiveness and fingerpointing? I don't really see the first anywhere, and the latter is only a scumtell in the right context.
Wingless: God, the grammar makes attitude hard to read, and attitude is everything. However, I'd say it seems genuine.
Cooldog: Your reasoning is inconsistent. You vote Chesskid because he has only voted the biggest wagon, and yet in the next post you explain that you like to be voting the big wagon to get the most information. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's a contradiction.
Zang: Provides reasoning, and sounds genuine, if a little bit underthought.

Most likely scum on the wagon:
NS, Cooldog

Still need to justify their vote:
TL, Moospiker

I still like my vote.

[Exe]

EBWOP: I guess I should have made this clear: even if Chesskid is scum, I still believe that there are scum on his wagon. When the wagon is building so fast, I find it more likely that scum would bus. And, in that case, I'd say Chesskid-scum = Cooldog-scum. They have a pretty clear connection.

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My play is not horrible. Fuck you.

Let's not cry like toddlers.
I also didn't actually say horrible. I'm just saying worse than your other games, seeing as I'm in so many of them.

[Exe]

I told you how I felt about your alignment. Any good points in your post were reiterated in mine, which you could read and notice yourself.
I also disliked your softclaim. If you felt the wagon was truly opportunistic (which it does appear to be) then I think you shouldn't have claimed at all.
Either way, no need to throw a tantrum.

[Exe]

Of course it could be, but I still think there were better ways to go about it.

[Exe]

I still find that the way you worded your vote on NS is poor and makes you seem like a person still in the RVS. My vote stands.

Yeah, I don't see this. Hypocrisy regarding the RVS is a crap argument to start with, plus you're trying to spin implied hypocrisy out of Chesskid's vote. Doesn't hold up to me.

But sorry for missing your reasoning, which incedently came after your vote.

This is almost equivalent to quick-hammering then explaining your hammer the next day, once you've had time to think of a plausible reason.

Something that scum rarely do, due to the nearly damning result.

So that's two people who are genuinely determined to stick with Chess for now. Once the others respond to my questions, I can decide which of you is the most likely scum. Moo is looking pretty good right now.

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@chesskid (and, well, everyone): I don't just suck at RVS, I suck at Mafia. Ask anyone.

Btw, forgot to mention, "I'm a bad player," is a really crap defense.

[Exe]

Voteing for the biggest wagon with no other reasons is scummy in my mind (sorry I couldn't be more clear). I think pressure is good in the early stages, but Chesskid (and tasky) haven't really given good reasons for there vote. Chesskid just jumped on the biggest wagon without giving a reason other then that.

But you

also

stated that you don't want to lynch Chess, you are just on his wagon because it's the biggest. Admittedly, you claim it's for pressure (which is fair) but then the same reasoning can be applied to Chesskid's. Either way, your argument sounds hypocritical.

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TL: You're voting tasky? Because vote-count has you on Chesskid?

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EBWOP: I think you meant Chesskid, now that I'm reviewing that sentence. Correct?

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I don't think so. Not until someone threatens a hammer.
Still waiting on NS to justify his vote.

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NS: I challenged you to justify your vote for Chesskid.

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Ok, NS. Let's take your arrogant attitude and shove it right back down your throat, shall we?
Especially since THAT DOESN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION.

But hey, you're brilliant, so I don't wanna insult you or anything, but let me MAKE IT HUGE FOR YA, KAY!?

NS: craplogic here. Evasiveness and fingerpointing? I don't really see the first anywhere, and the latter is only a scumtell in the right context.

Now if you actually read, you may see that your "evasiveness and fingerpointing" is bullshit. So I want you to go back, and point out what exactly made you feel that Chesskid was being evasive and finger pointing.

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For the record: If you even claim that you're a bad player, then lose the high n mighty attitude. It's gonna get on my nerves.

[Exe]

I want world peace. And a pony. You'll notice I'm not complaining in here about it.

Awesome. NS is going to be deliberately ignorant and uncooperative.

[Exe]

So NS is just going to be belligerent, and I don't have the patience to deal with that right now.

Here's what I want to know:

Cooldog, your analysis suggests that you believe there is at least 1 scum on Chesskid's wagon, regardless of his alignment. Who do you suppose that scum is?

[Exe]

Weekends are my limited-posting time, as some of you who have played with me before may know. However, have time for a quick post.

Moospiker disappearing is not good. I still think his vote on Chess was pretty iffy, so I want to hear from him.
However, the Cooldog wagon is pretty solid. His defensiveness over 3 votes screams scum. And his vote on chess never made any sense, especially the whole "I don't want Chess lynched, I just think he should be put at L-1."
NS switching to Cooldog when his wagon is picking up speed makes perfect sense as scum bussing. Cooldog-scum = NS-scum IMO.

Unvote. Vote: Cooldog

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BTW - L-1 is time to claim. No lynching before that.

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Ok so here's what has happened.
Cooldog could very easily be an SK trying to explain any future kills.
He could also be scum trying to explain his kills, but that is irrelevant as you will see.

The real issue here is that if Cooldog plays as a smart townie, he should not be using his ability. It's too huge of a risk, especially in the sense of what a doc's entire purpose is. If he accidentally kills the person, he's made things worse.
So the problem with this claim is that either way we should still end up with only 1 kill and he will be able to say "I didn't use it."

As such, I still find this to be a pretty strong scum-claim. I'm still in favor of a cooldog lynch, but it seems that we have a group of very fickle players here. I'd rather not have any more claims (or at least, only 1 more if people absolutely won't lynch Cooldog).
If not Cooldog, NS is still a very strong scum-read for me. My vote stays for now though.

Prevedit: Hello again Slaxx.

[Exe]

Alright, so Enigma is doing stupid stuff, but like others, I can't see scum just outright asking for a claim...too blatant to be legitimate role-fishing. Just seems misguided.
Moospiker is still faffing about -- stronger scum-read here every post. He threw suspicion on Wingless without actually going after him, and his justification of Cooldog seems like buddying to me.
Cooldog's claim + crappy vote are still suspicious, but I can't see him being scum with NS anymore after pushing it so hard when he's alone on the wagon. I'm reevaluating my Cooldog read based on the other players, and I'd say:
Scumteam: NS, Moospiker, ???
I'm all for lynching NS. He has done nothing pro-town, and the suspicions I had about him earlier have not changed in the least. If NS is town, then I may have to re-evaluate Cooldog.

Unvote. Vote: NS

[Exe]

I love how no one can keep up with contextual reading.

Says the person who is throwing suspicion on me without actually going after me. You consistently attack everyone. What do you mean I'm faffing about? You give no justification for any of your points.

This is all around bullshit. First of all, I AM going after you. I just think NS should be first. You may notice, you're in my scum-list.
Second, I am not consistently attacking everyone. I am attacking scummy players, who so far have been you, NS, and cooldog, for the most part.
And your stances on things are safe, hence the faffing about.

Also, @exe, you call my vote crappy, yet you vote for the same guy, isn't that slightly contradictory?

And here. I am talking about your old vote for Chesskid. It was a crappy vote with bad justification. Your current vote on NS is not the one being referred to.

Exe are you scum bro?

Nope. But I'm pretty sure Moospiker and NS are.

insert stuff about the plan here

This argument about your plan needs to stop. Your plan is crap. If scum have a roleblocker, OR if Cooldog is smart and doesnt use his ability, OR if a doc lands on Cooldog's target, OR if there is some other killing role who lands on Cooldog's target, Cooldog gets lynched. These are all scenarios where Cooldog could be town and still have the night end in a way that makes you lynch him, based on your plan.
The fact is that Cooldog should do whatever he wants, but probably shouldn't use his protect unless he's thinking like a vig. Controlling him or basing the next lynch on results that are unpredictable are both bad ideas. Lynching cooldog should be based on his scumminess, not the night actions (barring investigations, obviously).

Also, NS is obvscum, why is everyone just ignoring him?

[Exe]

Exe: I say that you are going after everyone as you give a bad point about all the players mentioned in that post (even the ones that you don't think are scummy) and then have a thorough fail in justifying it well enough.

Misrep much? I mention 5 people in that post. 1 (Enigma) I say is playing badly. 3(Cooldog, you, NS) I suggest are probably scum, though not likely all scum. That's only 3 people. 1 other person mentioned (Wingless) I don't even state a particular opinion on. I am in no way attacking "everyone" by attacking 3 players (the general number of scum in your average 12 man game) and calling 1 player foolish.

Also, your "fail in justifying it well enough" argument is crap. You can't just state that something is a certain way and have it be true. My justifications make perfect sense.

Uprising reads as town to me. I don't see any scum motivations in his actions.

[Exe]

Moo either has serious reading comprehension issues, or intentionally misrepped. Take a look at the first quote in his post 325.

3(Cooldog, you, NS) I suggest are probably scum,

though not likely all scum.

You bold the first part of the sentence, and ignore the second part which would've answered your question.
In the second thing you quoted, you have shown my reasoning for Cooldog not being scum with NS. Hence, in the first quote I say they are

not likely all scum

. Because I suspect that either NS or Cooldog is scum, but not both.
Therefore, clearly nothing has changed, and I don't know how you didn't see the second part of the sentence you bolded. Ignoring it? Probably.

NS still needs to post. His lurking is not helping my suspicions on him.
Tasky, why vote TL? I don't find TL scummy at all.
Enigma, your case motivations seem town to me, but I don't find Uprising genuinely scummy. Your vote would be better placed on NS.

[Exe]

yeee. we need bigger bandwagons:

UNVOTE: VOTE: Nobody Special

Goodposting.


Tasky still reads as town. I don't see scum motivation anywhere.


And at this point, I feel like NS is being deliberately anti-town in order to pull of a "too-obvious to be scum," defense. I just don't buy it. I am still feeling the scum-vibes: this guy needs to be lynched.

Moospiker is mudflinging. I'm for lynching him after NS.

[Exe]

We aren't so much telling you

how

to play as telling you to play. What exactly have you contributed to this game NS?

[Exe]

31 posts, commentary, and a vote or three.

Besides tunelling me, what have YOU done?

Rofl. Your 31 posts have been 50% fluff/appeal to noobishness/trolling. The remaining 50% was half crap arguments. You haven't done anything pro-town.

And rofl on the tunnelling. Tunneling = ignoring other players. You notice my case on Moospiker? My case on Cooldog? My reads on all the other players? That's called not tunneling. You're just trying to discredit my case on you.

Any justification for voting me out of annoyance?

[Exe]

I don't see town motivation either and like NS, he hasn't done anything pro town. He just randomly votes for people, if anything he is more anti town. So why do you think that tasky is town while NS is scum?

Not trying to justify his votes =/= random voting. His playstyle is risky, and it could be argued to be anti-town by some (something which I disagree with). However, he is putting himself in a position that scum wouldn't want: for example, he is late to this wagon without much reasoning. Scum tend to avoid such positions.
Like I said; I don't see scum motivation for his actions, and that's what I look for.

Is it far too early to put NS at L-1?

You should place your vote on people you find scummy, when you find them scummy. Don't worry about putting people at L-1 or not, scum quickhammering is not actually a legitimate threat, despite popular opinion.

[Exe]

You want to see L-1 votes at work? Look at Quantum Mafia where I replaced in. It works.

[Exe]

You want to see L-1 votes at work? Look at Quantum Mafia where I replaced in. It works.

I'm retarded. Should've been Physics mafia. Quantum and physics...confusing as hell.

[Exe]

So NS basically played like crap because he knew he had a role to protect himself. What a waste of a power role.

Unvote

I'm pretty uncertain between Cooldog and Moospiker at this point. Cooldog-town was based on NS-scum. However, Moospiker is pretty much scummy either way.

Vote: Moospiker

Gotta go with the Occam's razor.

[Exe]

Well, I am tired of outing roles at this point. We're at, what, 4 potential power roles now? Chesskid's hinting, Cooldog's vig (calling his role a doctor is just silly), NS as a watcher/tracker, and Moospiker as a tracker/rolecop...someone here needs to die. Chesskid is out -- he's not even scummy. Cooldog's vig is easy to test.

That leaves it to NS vs Moospiker, and I have to say that Moospiker's role sounds like a scum role. That + his actions are pretty damning. I'm keeping my vote where it is at this point.

[Exe]

Yeah, Tasky, the problem is that another wagon is not going to help. There is no alternative to your proposed scenario.

If we wagon someone else, and they are town PR - we will not lynch them, most likely.
If we wagon someone else, and they are town vanilla - you're saying we should lynch them instead. This both reduces the chances of scum hitting a vanilla (and increases chances of hitting a PR) with their kill, as well as pretty much guarantees a townie lynch.
If we wagon someone else, and they are scum - they will claim town PR, and we will be in the same situation as the first one.

See how wagoning another person isn't going to help? When you've gotten as many claims as we have, it's the best idea to lynch the one that is most scummy. Which one do you think that is?

[Exe]

Additionaly: Another possible scenario is technically to have a vanilla townie claim and offer to be lynched, but that is incredibly anti-town for the most obvious reasons.

Long story short: Only a vanilla townie is going to claim vanilla right now, so I do not like the idea of wagoning a fifth player.

[Exe]

I'm not suggesting we lynch him prior to the mod giving us more info.

[Exe]

Alright, so Occam's Razor says Charnel is at least an equally viable lynch to NS. Time to

Unvote.

The difference in Charnel's post has thrown me off, and I'm starting to wonder if Moospiker was the problem, rather than the slot.
However, I'm still not for the case on Uprising. He still reads VI to me.
Doing a reread now, looking for things that I missed.

~~~~~~~

Alright, reread stopped short as I started with an NS iso and noticed something huge that does

not

make sense.

Here is my Role PM:

Nobody Special

, you are a

Security Camera Watcher

.

Each night, you stare at several blurry television screens all night long. Or you just stick to one and hope nothing goes wrong elsewhere.

You have 2 abilities, but you may only use one each night:
1. You may watch one player and see who targets them that night (but not what actions were performed on that player).
2. You may watch all cameras at once, learning every action that is performed that night, but not by who nor on who. However, once you’ve used this action, you will not be able to perform any action the following night.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Please confirm via PM with a paraphrase of your role's abilities.

NS's second ability is

NOT

a track. It's just a "what abilities have been used," checker. This is a HUGE scum beneficial role. Being able to know the roles that were used in the night means knowing if there is a cop, the number of docs, and potentially any other power roles that might exist. I don't see the value of this ability as a town ability.

Vote: NS

for the same old reasons (so very scummy).

[Exe]

On another note:

I already posted about the misrep the new dude did. That may very well have been an accident, because the rest of his stuff is good. While he still very well may be scum,

he is at the very least very willing to bus[/b, so we aren't getting him today.

NS is not today's lynch either. I'm going to reread in a bit

About the bolded, I have two questions.

1) How do you know he's "very" willing to bus? I see no evidence one way or the other on this without seeing flips.
2) If you think he's really bussing, then your suspects should be in this group somewhere: Uprising, Nobody Special, Wingless (his top 3 suspects). Any reason for this discrepancy?

[Exe]

Additionally, if NS were scum, they couldn't use the second ability (the one which is the good for scum, after all, what good does a watcher to a scumbag?) since they have to report us their results tomorrow and I think we could catch them if they fakeclaim a result, simply because there seem to be so many town-power roles (and if there are not many power roles, we should avoid to lynch such a strong power role anyway.)

It would be smarter (even if they were pro-town) for NS to claim that he used the ability but to NOT claim results. In the event that he is town, why the hell would we have him claim his results, thereby revealing all of the power roles to the scum? That'd be stupid. So regardless of alignment, NS will most likely use the second ability and refuse to give the information, and therefore there won't really be any way to catch him if he is scum.

[Exe]

I see. I did indeed misunderstand the point.
Well then your position is that we should lynch Uprising because if NS is scum, we will be able to catch him in a lie sooner or later?
Hmm. There is logic to your position. My only fear is that we will be outing another role if Uprising turns out to be town. Balanced with the life of a potential watcher, or else a confirmed scum. And the fact that I don't think Uprising is likely scum...
Nope, I think I'll keep my vote where it is. I'll keep it on a person I suspect to be scum rather than supporting the wagon of one of my town (albeit VI) reads just on the basis of a claim.

[Exe]

In fact, if NS really is scum, he'll be able to use his 2nd ability, and even if we catch him in a lie afterward, the scum will have hugely valuable information. I don't want to see that happen.
Vote definitely stays.

[Exe]

In fact, if NS really is scum, he'll be able to use his 2nd ability, and even if we catch him in a lie afterward, the scum will have hugely valuable information. I don't want to see that happen.
Vote definitely stays.

yeah, but don't forget the converse of your agument: if NS is really town, we will lose a very valuable power role.

Yeah, we lose a watcher (I can only assume this is what you mean by "very valuable power role," as I've pointed out why his second ability is primarily anti-town, even if he were to be town). Not the only potentially powerful role we have though, and probably won't be the last powerful possible-town role to come up before the game is over.

[Exe]

If he's town, he could check claims.

Only if we massclaimed. Which would again be anti-town. Am I the only one thinking this through?

[Exe]

Sorry, classes have been nuts lately. Let's see here.

Your case on TL is actually decent, but I hadn't gotten a strong scum-vibe from his actions myself yet. I am still favoring NS at the moment. I'd like to see how TL responds.
It seems like pretty much no one is going to post before deadline, and I'm obviously not in favor of a no-lynch, D1 no-lynch pretty much fucks the town. So if the TL wagon gets to L-1 before deadline, I'll hammer.

[Exe]

Prod recieved. Halloween n classes have been/continue to be nuts.

I'll hammer to avoid a no-lynch, but not right now. I'm going to re-ISO a few players before this day is finished while we still have time.

[Exe]

Alright, popping in for a quickie.
Welcome to the game lrd.
A few questions I'd like answered:

@Chesskid: Why is Uprising so strongly scum for you when NS is 100% without a doubt VI to you?
Also, your analysis is a vote analysis with zero certainty on any of the reads. Vote analyses are for after a flip. Not to mention many of the conclusions you draw from the wagon make no sense.
Third: I notice that you seem to be spending a LOT of time commenting on me without actually ever pointing out a read of me other than gut. Any reason you're so obsessed with me?

@TL: In the past few days as your lynch has been hanging at L-1, do you still feel the same way about your scumreads? This answer is important to me.

@Charnel: You've suggested that the TL wagon is (essentially) an attempt by someone to save someone else, if I understand correctly. So tell us who you think the two someones are.

More later if I can get done with my hw.

[Exe]

You do realize you are continiously convincing yourself that you are right, do you?

anyway, what I argued was that not hammering isn't weird. That happened before. There was only one wagon that really lingered long at L-1, well after it became clear that it failed: yours. The wagon on me only disappeared (after it became clear that it failed), when you pushed the TL case. Before that, I had 4 votes. Baseless ones, votes that weren't doing a thing. Which is my point again here: the TL wagon lost momentum. Valid arguments have been brought up that it shouldn't succeed. In general, an Uprising lynch is preferred by more players. Still the TL wagon is there

when it basically failed already

. It shouldn't become the lynch, seen the support the Uprising case has. But still it is there: who is keeping the wagon there, and why? Who benefits?

It is NS's strategy (and I know I'm tunneling here), but I don't know who is using it. Someone is trying to push this lynch through because of a deadline, or because somebody thinks he has to hammer because nothing else can happen. The same happened on you, and on me: people were waiting to get the lynch through not because of valid reasons, but because "it should be done".

This is the context for my question, as it came right before my post.

[Exe]

Also:
Charnel, since you clearly did not understand my question. I am asking

who

(what player) the TL wagon is saving, and

who

(again, player) is the one attempting to do the saving?

Example: Do you think Chesskid is pushing TL in order to save NS? Do you think Cooldog is just using Chesskid's case on TL to save Uprising?
These are just examples, so please tell me what you actually think rather than just the theory you believe in.

[Exe]

Alright, enough faffing about. I've heard pretty much every possible thing there is to hear from everyone. Tomorrow should be a guaranteed scum-lynch, if today isn't.
And I'm not going to lynch Uprising. He reads VI to me.
So that leaves TL. Not a strong read, but he doesn't read heavily town to me either, so better than a no-lynch.
Tomorrow, let's not leave the day to crappy deadline lynches, shall we?

Unvote. Vote: TheLonging

[Exe]

Hmm. Well that blows.

I've been rereading, and I'm working on a case on a player now. Will post it when I finish.

[Exe]

Alright, I haven't had time to really flesh out a wall-o-text case or anything, so I'm just going to post my suspicions in shorthand.

Was rereading the people who I felt slipped under the radar D1, and in light of the flip there's some really damning evidence:

Zang:
Alright so D1 he read to me as genuine for a while. His tunnelling on Tasky seemed misguided at worst, for most of D1.

However, around the end of the day we see a few really suspicious things, especially considering the flip:

Around his 9th post he stops posting really any scumhunting. He's no longer pushing his Tasky wagon, and just starts commenting on roles and lines of peoples' posts, rather than actually stating suspicions, attacking any players, or pushing any cases.
Whats telling here is this was right around the point when NS and Moospiker were both possible lynch targets: sounds like he wanted the town to focus on picking one of the two.
The key issue then is that he never really goes back to pushing Tasky, and continues to not really scumhunt or pressure anyone at all.

There's a clincher though.

Vote: Uprising

Charnels case on him is good and he's the only person besides Tasky that I think is scummy.

The case on TL is really good and the fact that he ignored it means that he can not answer it or isn't reading the thread. I still think uprising is scummy but his lynch can wait.

Unvote
Vote: TheLonging

In post 14 he votes Uprising pretty much out of the blue, piggybacking hard on Charnel's wagon. It's not entirely damning except that he specifically says that uprising is the

only

person he finds scummy except Tasky.
But then 3 posts later, after no spectacular content, he sheeps ANOTHER wagon and says that the case on TL is "really good" (despite the fact that somehow he'd found no one else scummy) and his only original contribution is that TL is scum because he didn't defend himself.

The cherry on top is that he says he'll be V/LA for a short while, but never actually comes back before the lynch is up.

Summary: General lack of scumhunting for a good portion of D1, followed by two successive bandwagons based entirely on others' legwork.

Vote: Zang

[Exe]

@Zang: Those two quotes are not contradictory at all.

During Day 1

, I thought you seemed pro-town for most of it. Now that we have more information, it reads differently. No contradiction there.

And your "2 votes is not a wagon" is a semantics argument that strawman's the point. You still heavily sheeped two people as the day went on longer. That's scummy.

[Exe]

Interesting trends from the vote analyses.

Strategically avoiding wagons as scum?

Umm the strategic move would have been to make up some stupid reason to hammer TL with the deadline so close rather try try and force a wagon onto someone else.
And I had my vote in one place all of yesterday, and I'm sure the reasons which I kept it there are valid.

That's strategic for part of the scumteam to do. However, it's very common for at least one scum member to try to park his vote on someone who will seemingly never be lynched (and therefore will never actually flip town) in order to stay away from the mislynches that the scum may push through.
And those trends definitely suggest that. Major scum points.

However, something else that I would note:

The constant L-1 without flips is extremely fishy, and I've been reading and rereading those wagons to figure out why the lynches never went through.
Finally I've had my eureka moment.

A series of failed L-1 wagons would suggest that somehow the scum were lacking in their force. They somehow didn't have the teamwork there to pull it off, as though someone on the scumteam wasn't playing.
This led me to the conclusion that I should look at any actual lurkers. And while it is not logical to think that inactivity = scummy, this situation would suggest that the scum were a man weak.

And who has been inactive nearly the entire time? BV/Slaxx/Lrdwhyt
This, combined with the fact that he was the last joiner on the TL counterwagon (suggesting scum trying to look town as a mislynch was coming) makes me

very

suspicious of the slot.

So that adds Lrdwhyt to my list of scum suspects. Note though that the case is based purely on vote analysis, and so I'd prefer to go after Zang, whose actual activity was scummy.

[Exe]

I don't see how.

Well I put it in my case, so go back and see how.

Then who did you protect?

Rolefishing? Chesskid still isn't a confirmed doc and I'd rather keep it that way. Plus, I don't see how him telling his protect, if he really is a doc, is actually useful to us.

I wasn't really there, so I can't exactly defend myself from that, but your theory suggests that there were 2 scum (if there are 3 scum, which is likely) on a lot of wagons. Who, then?

No, you misunderstand. My belief is that scum generally do the following: 1 scum on a wagon. Second scum stays off. Third comes in near the end if necessary.
This may not be intentional, but in my case I see this happen a lot.
Therefore, my theory is 1 scum was on many of the wagons, the second stayed off, and the third was consistently not there.

[Exe]

And Zang ignores the actual point. That's called strawman.

[Exe]

@Zang: Do you have anything to say? You haven't really done much scumhunting today either.

Also, you might want to claim, as you're at L-1.

[Exe]

Hold on a minute.
Chesskid, if you yourself put NS on a viglist, why the hell are you calling out Cooldog for shooting NS?
Contradictions much?

[Exe]

The quote tag thing is small, but it's definitely notable. I've seen smaller quoting slips out scum in the past.
The missing tags would probably suggest he modified the quote in some way.
That + my original case + vanilla townie claim at worst: Lynch Zang. His sheeping and TL-vote showed a huge lack of motivation for scumhunting. I am confident in my read.

[Exe]

If this is a misslynch, I am going to open tomorrow by voting Enigma.

Are you expressing intent to hammer?
Because if not you're basically telling us that D3 you're just going to vote the person you are voting now...which I don't understand the need to express.

[Exe]

I'm aware that a mislynch will result in LyLo. However, a scum lynch will put us that much closer to a win. And I'm certain that Zang is going to flip scum.
Now, where do you stand? You didn't answer my question.

[Exe]

@exe, how certain? Is that a doc soft claim? Because if it is then come out with it...
Just a randome note... Chesskid was at l-1 but he never claimed...

Sorry that these posts are very brief and have little to no explination behind them, but I can't be on for long periods of time... (at least for today)

My certainty has no correlation to my role. I am simply confident in my read on Zang.

[Exe]

Stop the catfights. It's beginning to get petty and distracting.

@Uprising: Your comment about Charnel not liking being called scummy would be better applied to you. Why the sudden outcry over Charnel reading Lrdwhyt town but you scum?

First of all, your voting patterns are rather different than Lrdwhyt when you take into account the fact that his slot was almost never around, where you were quite active. Thus your first point is off.
Secondly, voting patterns are by far not the only thing that constitutes a read, so your "Why is Lrdwhyt town when he votes like me," makes absolutely no sense. While my read on Lrdwhyt's play is overall neutral, I would say it is definitely different than my read on you, and has a lot to do with factors other than voting.
Third of all, you've just raised huge red flags for jumping on Charnel on the basis of a town read on another player (and a scum read on you). Your posts show a huge concern for the fact that Charnel doesn't find you town, and your attempt to relate yourself to a player he calls town shows your motives.

FoS: Enigma

for that reaction.

So after that little explosion, Enigma has jumped to my acceptable lynches for the day. However, I would still very much prefer to see Zang lynched. Either way, looks like 2 scum caught so let's lynch one of them.

[Exe]

EBWOP: The catfights comment was to Chess & Enigma.

[Exe]

@Uprising: Your comment about Charnel not liking being called scummy would be better applied to you.

This isn't actually directed at me, right?

If it is, I can't remember saying that.

My bad. Meant Enigma.

[Exe]

I have no issues with being called scummy. My self arrogance just requires that a reasonable case be bought forward, not one with is littered with inconsistencies.

Yeah, well your post suggests otherwise.

[Exe]

Umm no it doesn't. You are just purposely misrepresenting with a scummy bias.
It only points out the inconsistencies in Charnel's argument against me.

Rofl. Now you'll OMGUS me?

Here's some advice. Go take a bath in ice water. Come back when you don't have your panties in a bunch from Chesskid getting on your case, and then read the thread without calling every person who points out your bad logic scummy.

And yes, your post had crap logic. You aren't like Lrdwhyt, and your attempt to defend yourself by saying you're the same as him is scummy. End of story.

[Exe]

Care to point out where I called you scum?

I'm saying you are viewing me as scum, thus constructing your argument from that perception.

I'm attacking Charnel's reads and I'm waiting for his response, so unless your name is Charnel, piss off with answering a question directed to someone else.
I've been saying Charnel's slot hasn't looked impressive for a while, I just didn't post a direct argument to him yet. So that's one of your points off.
My intentions for day 1 have been clear the whole time. Just because I didn't support some retarded WIFOMy case (which turned out to be wrong anyways) doesn't make me scum.
My argument makes perfect logical sense against his argument against me tyvm.

You however now get the courtesy of a scum read too, jumping to the defense of your buddy.

Right, because somewhere in my post I said that Charnel was town?
Wrong. My issues with your post are completely independent of Charnel, and your attempt to lump me with him now was extremely predictable.
If you'd responded to any other player the way you responded to Charnel, you'd get the exact same arguments from me: the fact remains that you overreacted to Charnel's post by calling him scum (regardless of if you have always felt he was scum, the fact remains that his post inspired you to reiterate it) and trying to relate yourself to Lrdwhyt.
THAT IS WHAT IS SCUMMY. The tone of your reaction + your attempt to relate to Lrdwhyt are scummy.
The fact that you attempt to deflect me by claiming I am answering for Charnel only adds to this.

TL;DR: The motivation behind your reaction reads scum. Your attempt to relate to Lrd reads scum.
And don't tell me to "piss off" when I am scum-hunting and call you out on scummy behavior.


Also, in response to the bolded;
You told me I was misreping you and the syntax of your sentence was unclear. Sorry I misunderstood.

And one more note, your belligerence and arrogance is getting old. "Piss off" until you have a better attitude.

So here is my suggestion.
Let's lynch Zang, give Enigma time to cool off and stop acting like a child in a tantrum. Then tomorrow maybe he can respond maturely so I can get a read of his motivations that isn't tainted by his raging.

[Exe]

Lrdy voted exactly the same way I did, gave similar argument on exactly the same person and was not on any other wagon.

Except that, as I already pointed out, you weren't the same as Lrd in the sense that two of his previous players were inactive. Their lack of being on a wagon is COMPLETELY different than yours. Thus, my entire point about you falsely claiming that you were the same as Lrd still stands, and you've yet to acknowledge this part.

That is the only issue I bought up, and you are just purposely misrepping it for your own agenda.

This is false. I have not misrepresented anything, and you keep claiming this without any backing. Your attempt to discredit my arguments this way is noted, however.

The fact that you have ignored my entire argument against Charnel (it has it's strengths) and flipping in completely onto me easily merits you scumpoints, regardless of who my argument was against.

I did no such thing. First of all, it's not my job to analyze your case on Charnel. I read it, I judged it, I moved on.
The point is, YOU were scummy. YOUR response had a tone that I don't see town having. YOUR post had huge red flags.

Stop trying to twist this around to avoid answering for YOUR actions.

So, do we continue this day and watch Enigma try to fling mud on

every

person who says something to him, or can we lynch the extremely scummy Zang and deal with Enigma tomorrow when he (hopefully) stops snarling?

[Exe]

Alright, looking at that vote count:

@Uprising: Vote for someone. I would prefer Zang, but right now your lack of a vote is useless. Make a decision.
@Lrdwhyt: Are you going to wagon Uprising even after there's zero support for the wagon? Feel free to stick to the unbelievably safe position on Uprising, but I would suggest you take a stand on something right now.
@Zang: Your vote is still on Tasky...if you get back before we lynch you, care to provide us with an opinion on your counter wagons (Enigma and Uprising) so that we can figure out who your scum partners are?
@Charnel/Chesskid: Are either of you willing to hammer Zang? You've both expressed suspicions about Zang.

[Exe]

My case on Zang is not that he's a lurker, it's that he sheeped two votes and his reasoning for the TL wagon was basically "Chesskid made a good case," shortly after finding no one scummy but Tasky and Uprising.

[Exe]

LrdWhyt fell off the planet.

I want to hammer Zang.

Is this an awful idea?

Will you stop faffing about?

You're a person: you can make decisions. Decide: do you believe Zang is scum or not? Based on that decision, decide to hammer or not.

Stop asking for advice, stop apologizing. Take a position.

[Exe]

I can't believe that THREE players (chesskid, Charnel, Uprising) have already offered to hammer and none of them actually has.

It certainly stinks doesn't it.

Someone

doesn't want to have to bus. Hmm.

[Exe]

Well, good game I guess. I guess this proves that Mafia can lose on night actions alone

Fun stuff. I enjoyed appearing town throughout the game