StrangerCoug's Worst Nightmare IIIS: The Dungeon (Game over)

[smargaret]

Italian now?

I speak Spanish and French, so I can help interpret Chesskid's post, but I'd like someone who actually speaks the language to double check.

VOTE: Twomz

because I have no idea how to pronounce your name and it's going to drive me batty.

[smargaret]

That's twice you've mentioned honesty - "non ho intenzione di mentire" and "onestamente". Is that you, or an artifact of the translator?

[smargaret]

I read that as:

I did not like the "?" in response to the second (Mafuyu's) vote on her (LLD). Honestly, I've seem people get halfway to lynch during RVS, and then the wagon disappears if they respond well or the pressure stays on.

That is a very rough translation though.

[smargaret]

Chesskid, if you find his reaction excessive, why are you still holding onto your RVS vote?

[smargaret]

Never mind. Antihero beat me to it.

[smargaret]

Rereading, chesskid, why are you playing the newb card on LLD's behalf (if I'm interpreting you right)? I was under the impression she was an alt account and not a new player.

[smargaret]

it's readable if you highlight it.

[smargaret]

NS - was that a random vote or a serious one?

[smargaret]

Why random vote when there's content to analyze?

[smargaret]

parama i will post more later this evenig. promise.

[smargaret]

NS is scummy.

UNVOTE: Twomz
VOTE: NS

I just got back from the doctor. I have pneumonia. Don't expect much in the way of activity from me for the next two days until the antibiotics kick in. I'll replace out if it would be easier, but I'd like to keep playing.

[smargaret]

I don't like Tasky's vote. It seems very opportunistic - that's the first time he's mentioned BS. Also, his only other non-random vote was to push an existing wagon.

UNVOTE: Nobody Special
VOTE: Tasky

I'm still semi-v/la, but I will try to post more.

[smargaret]

Blooderection is the play today. I'm not joking.

VOTE: Blooderection

[smargaret]

Xvart, I'm looking at you tomorrow. Didn't we have this argument in SWN3 about lynching PRs?

BE is still the play.

[smargaret]

Yes, I am saying what you think I'm saying, but not for the reason you think I'm saying it. Clear as mud?

And read the beginning of SWN 3. It's true.

[smargaret]

@mod: Can we get a votecount and a summary of who is alive and what the dead people were, please? I'm not following what happened last night.

[smargaret]

Or there are multiple factions.

But you're right, this is a bit weird.

[smargaret]

Chesskid, that isn't making sense to me, even running it through google translate. Can you rephrase please?

[smargaret]

Ah, I see what you're saying. But you're overlooking a lot of possibilities, like doctors, bulletproof townies, and jailkeepers.

Ninja'd by LLD.

[smargaret]

xvart, I'd rather Tasky took a look at your translation, but I think it's not quite right. Specifically, "nothing to say" is Google Translate's way of saying "null tell".

And I think that's essentially what chesskid is saying.

"No, that is not what I said.

I said it was a null tell.

In reality, if there are three dead scum, it is unlikely that one of the remaining two post restrictions is scum."

right?

[smargaret]

And you are basing analyses on modWIFOM. I'm not with it enough to actually work out the odds that one of the prs is scum, but can we put this line of thought on the backburner until you've read SWN 3 and read the argument there?

[smargaret]

xvart, night happened.

[smargaret]

I'm not liking xvart's play today at all. He's voting chesskid for no reason other than statistics instead of actually scumhunting. He is being almost deliberately obtuse about BE, he is rolefishing, he is abusing google translate to misrep someone I have a town read on, he didn't manage to reread the thread even given a night (possibly WIFOM, but suggests he had other stuff to do at night maybe?), and the slot he replaced into didn't post anything day 1 (hypocrisy, your name is smargaret, but I'm off the V/LA now).

Based on who was on the wagon yesterday and how it was being pushed, I have a town read on chesskid. He's an easy lynch and a bus just doesn't make sense to me. I'm also not really a fan of Twomz or Tasky, and I think there's a replacement still who has yet to say anything.

If BE is scum, xvart is scum. If BE is town, xvart is probably town.

[smargaret]

Tasky, I have reasons relating to my role why BE should be the lynch today.

Also, the PRs were not assigned based on math majoring, because that's what I finished college with (algebra, not stats, and I'm not up for discussing math in Italian).

[smargaret]

Does anyone other than BE and xvart want me to be any more explicit about the case on BE?

[smargaret]

Manho, drop the probability argument. If PRs aren't assigned randomly, as SC said they aren't, then it doesn't apply regardless of whether it's right or wrong.

Where is Framm? And Toonfighter?

[smargaret]

EBWOP Drat the post restriction.

[smargaret]

Tasky:
-Why is Me=Weird's case on you bullshit?
-Why is BE going to die tonight?
-How is your case on Me=Weird

not

just a bad case of OMGUS?

[smargaret]

*headdesk* It was even announced L-1.

[smargaret]

I don't like what Tasky's doing, but it doesn't make sense as a scum play. I'd be willing to go for xvart today and BE tomorrow if he survives the night ... but then SC'd have to find a replacement.

[smargaret]

tl;dr for Chronopie: You're scum.

[smargaret]

oh ... sorry, I thought Chronopie had replaced BE. Framm is only maybe scum, because he hasn't posted anything.

*embarrassed*

[smargaret]

Tasky seems to be flailing about for any lynch that isn't BE right now.

At this point, BE is the best lynch. There are two outcomes: BE is scum. This is obviously good. BE is town. BE is vanilla town (per claim), so we haven't mislynched another power role. The wagon on BE will provide a lot of material for analysis tomorrow. We'll get rid of a scummy player who would be serious trouble in LyLo, so he doesn't make a bad mislynch either.

Even if Tasky has done something to ensure that BE will die tonight and BE is scum, we are so far ahead of the scum that we can afford to lose the opportunity. Seriously, what is the downside to lynching BE?

[smargaret]

Toon Fighter's vote just proves that there have been too many replacements this game.

Mothrax still needs to die. Tasky, how sure are you that he'll die tonight? I'll move my vote if it's inevitable.

[smargaret]

Four, actually. Blooderection, Sakshijain, Bhavitgoyal, and Framm 18.

[smargaret]

60% isn't quite good enough to justify the risk, IMO. I'm going to shamelessly sheep Parama and say we need more votes on mothrax.

[smargaret]

also, I'm going to be v/la this weekend. Marching orders from my future in-laws - there's a command performance family party, and the relative we'll be staying with doesn't have wireless internet.

[smargaret]

Tasky - the risk that you're wrong and we have to deal with this tomorrow.

[smargaret]

xvart, revealing why I thought BE was scum would involve claiming, and I'm not ready to do that yet.

[smargaret]

I'd like to hear thoughts on xvart or esp. Tasky seems town after yesterday (scum would have jumped on the BE wagon instead of pushing us to wait and see if he survived the night), and there's nothing in manho's iso. I'm going over him too, and the same reason that had me suspecting BE yesterday applies to him today, but BE was town so I'm not sure how valid that is. I don't really see anything other than active lurking for esp.

[smargaret]

Huh. Upon rereading, xvart has the defense of BE, which gives him town points, and some rolefishing/pointless post restriction discussion/my own private reason which give him scum points. Leaning scum, but probably not a good choice for today.

EBWOP: The last post was goodposting. Read changes to null.

[smargaret]

xvart, I was posting the read of you I'd mentioned in my response to LLD's list of scumspects. See the preview edit - I didn't see your post until later.

Also, Parama has no town meta. Parama plays the same whether he's town or scum. The fact that he's bringing up his meta is concerning, though, because everything I've heard about how meta arguments are terrible has come from one source and that's Parama.

[smargaret]

xvart said you did, I'm not invested enough right now to go look it up. This is me playing while cutting out endless numbers of save the dates and addressing an equally endless number of envelopes.

[smargaret]

Chesskid needs to explain his read/vote on Chronopie. Posting in Italian isn't an excuse for voting without a reason.

Actually, Chesskid hasn't done much of anything today. And I'm also anxiously awaiting LLD's reads.

VOTE: Chesskid

[smargaret]

Be more specific.

[smargaret]

Is my paraphrase correct?

Calling an argument town v town is an anti-town statement

LLD is obvtown

Manho's posting up until post 828 is frothy (?) and that's manho being manho, it's a nulltell. Jumping on the easy lynch for it, however, is a scumtell.

Lol, ninja'd. This is a tricky one and I'd especially like Tasky's version of the last paragraph.

[smargaret]

Better?

Manho's 828 was at the worst a nulltell. I saw it as a towntell - often townies will get really frustrated and only start posting what amounts to "no."

These types of messages are easy to attack, but from experience the people doing the attacking are much scummier than the initial poster.

[smargaret]

Okay, that makes sense. UNVOTE: Chesskid

[smargaret]

You forgot that the mafia isn't killing.

[smargaret]

manho's iso is empty. I know the post restriction is hard, but he didn't even take a postition on the BE lynch yesterday and today he's just sheeping a case on Espeonage. He hasn't done anything (22 posts all game?).

VOTE: manho

[smargaret]

Stove, I'll third the you need to respond to it. And I'll repost it, sans spoiler, if necessary to get you to respond to it.

[smargaret]

I've given my reasoning for wanting BE (among others) to be in the graveyard pile.

BTW, there's a rather core fallacy to his argument. It's not necessary to post an exhaustive case on someone in order to vote them. For example:

Well... that's nice to see! No deaths!

Vote: Toon Fighter

My votes gonna hang out right here for now. I want to do a read of Reckamonic and xvrt, and I'll see if I can get a block post consisting of the cases against those 2, aswell as TF.

Toon Fighter never appears in your iso before this. And your TF never appeared afterwards either, even though you even promised one.

amirite?

My interpretation of his post was that you do a lot of talking about the case on BE without actually making a case. Posts like "I'll post tomorrow," "I'll let other head do it," and "Go find it yourself" make you look scummy when they are disproportionate to the "BE is scum because X, Y, and Z" posts.

Also, just because LLD posted a vote without a case doesn't mean it's less scummy for you to do it.

UNVOTE: manho

VOTE: Stove

[smargaret]

I'm starting to regret commenting on the number of replacements earlier.

[smargaret]

Fate did have a new read. He says Parama is scum.

I would much rather see Parama investigated than lynched, especially since we have other scummy people about today. I'm not getting the Espeonage wagon - I don't want a wall post, but is there anything other than his resemblance to Nobody Special that has Espeonage down as scum?

[smargaret]

Parama is making my head hurt.

Wait, did Chesskid just call a flipped townie scum? Lol. Why are more people not voting chesskid for this?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: chesskid

[smargaret]

Fate, I think you're just incapable of having a townread on me.

Chesskid saying flipped town would seem less scummy if I had less of a general scumvibe coming from Chesskid. Also, TF is a memorable dayvig for flipping town (and the whole self-voting thing), and it looked a lot to me like TF was filler in chesskid's list.

[smargaret]

I think you're incapable of being productive as town.

You need to VOTE main wagons or make a case good enough so that it BECOMES a main wagon.

This "herpa derpa chess isn't payin attention" isn't good enough.

No, I have to vote for who I think is scum. If that person doesn't happen to be a main wagon, that doesn't change my read.

Sorry for not being a sheep, but I'm not going to vote someone when I don't have a scumread on them when we're in no danger of no-lynch.

[smargaret]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tasky

Happy Fate?

@ Mod I'll be V/LA Tuesday through Sunday with Thanksgiving stuff.

[smargaret]

Eh, I'm not sure I buy Parama's logic for why Charlie must be town, but I'm more sure Tasky is scum.

Fate, all you've done since your catch-up post is complain about people not wagonning - admittedly I'm not the all-knowing Mafia God you are, but what you're doing feels an awful lot like rolefishing.

EBWOP: Parama, if you think Twomz is the dayvig (which is what I assume you mean by sk), he's shot scum for us. Still think he should die?

Also, where's Nacho? I know he was signed onto MS earlier tonight.

[smargaret]

It's not just Tasky that you want outed, though, Fate. You want claims from every person that you consider scummy - and heaven help the poor soul who dares to disagree with you. Witness the explosion in your two (EBWOP: 3) most recent posts.

Why are you afraid of someone questioning your motivations? I didn't say it was scummy because I wasn't certain that it was scummy rolefishing. It was rolefishing, though, and that plus your OMGUS - which you practically admit it is - really makes me wonder about the towniness of your motivations.

Now, I'm going to go reread the game and read some isos. I hope to be able to post a list like Antihero wants before going V/LA (and that vote on Tasky was mostly to see what Fate would do, so UNVOTE: Tasky). I'll certainly manage to come up with my top choice for scum by then.

[smargaret]

There is no Pustulio! It's just a pimple! A hypnotic pimple!

I stand by my policy that Chronopie is always scum.

unvote, vote: Chronopie

This is only slightly a joke.

I can link you to three completed Town-Chrono games

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 76&start=0
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 81&start=0
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 82&start=0

Well there goes your case.

Now seriously

--

Finished my reread. I too did not find any case on BE/Mothrax. How was he pushed to claiming?

--

Isn't that Manho's Post Restriction? to hide/color/size part/all of the text?

Is that seriously all you have to say about two days of game play? That's a heck of a catchup post.

Coulda sworn I'd posted yesterday. guess not...

Brief points: Parama/Stove feels TvT.

Manho's #828 is just... denial for the sake of denial. No real effort made in defending. Scum vibes.

LLD is fluffy. Whether fluffy scum or fluffy town...

Nacho made a good entry in to the game (better than I did at least), town read there too.

Summary: VOTE: Manho,

FoS: LLD

Parama | Stove | Nacho are prob-town

Null on everyone else.

That's the only other post with anything resembling content in it. Also, Chrono's play reads totally different from his play in the three games he linked where he was town. Surely more than two posts' worth of stuff has happened in this game! Combined with the selective lurking and the fact that Framm was scummy, Chronopie is on my List of Players to Watch.

Espeonage has a grand total of one post that isn't jumping onto a well-established wagon, and it's a vote for me without any reasoning whatsoever that he doesn't go on to defend or pursue. There's also his positions on the BE/BS wagons as previously mentioned. I can understand the Esp wagon a bit better now, but he's v/la so he's maybe not the best wagon candidate right now.

I think that's enough for tonight. Is there a preference for who I should read/post about next?

[smargaret]

I think he was referring to Parama, not me.

EBWOP: Fate beat me to it. And why can't you accept that I actually had a scumread on someone who turned out to be scum?

[smargaret]

Because of the way you JUST tried to throw dirt on my play "since my catchup" IM STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO RESPOND BY THE WAY:

1. How is it rolefishing
2. Do you have any concerns with my views on bandwagonning and how it is pro-town?

AND ALSO NEW ONES:
1. Your votes on NO ONE, this is counter-productive as hell.

"I think that's enough for tonight. Is there a preference for who I should read/post about next?"
Asking what to comment on iS SCUMMY. Who the hell do YOU think is scummiest? Why don't you comment on people in the order YOU deem important?

BECAUSE YOU ARE GODDAMNED SCUM WITH ANTIHERO BUT IM LYNCHING SERIALKILLERS FIRST BUT ILL GET BACK TO YOU CLOWNS.

Okay, you're not understanding me. Take a deep breath and calm down.

1. I voted Tasky to see your reaction, not because I particularly thought he was scum. I saw your reaction. I unvoted.
2. Over the next three days I will read everyone in this thread in iso and I will reread the thread and make a decision so I can place a vote before going v/la. I fail to see how the order in which I do so is important - I'm trying to go for the biggest wagons first, but if you have a burning desire to hear what I think about, say, Parama, I want you to tell me so I can get that information to you in time to respond to it. As in, I'm trying to help town because I know going away is going to make things difficult.
3. My vote isn't on anyone right now because I haven't finished all of these reads yet. I have a decent idea where I'll wind up putting it, but I'm not sure yet. I will vote before I go v/la, but we're not going to lynch anyone before then and I don't get why you're so upset that I'm not voting anyone at the moment.

In response to your old questions:
1. You should not vote people to get them to claim; you should vote them because you believe them to be scum or to get a reaction (see my vote for Tasky, or any one of the pressure votes on this site). You are acting like the only reason to vote someone is to get a claim, as if that is the goal of voting. That is rolefishing. You want to know what Tasky, Chronopie, and Espeonage's roles are (aside, Esp, your name is really hard for me to type and apologies if I misspell it) and don't seem to care much if we lynch any of them.

2. Yes, I do have concerns with your views on wagonning. I think it has its proper time and place, and I'm not so sure that this is it. I think that if we take the attitude that bandwagons are okay and the One True Way we let scum get away with jumping on and riding their way to a mislynch - see the epidemic of pointless votes for the popular wagon. Wagons are appropriate to get reactions and shameless wagonning is better than no-lynching, but wagonning for the sake of wagonning to the point where original thought is considered anti-town encourages the follow-the-leader mentality that lets scum dictate a series of mislynches and win. I especially don't like how you come in and assume the role of town leader, or how you deal with people who disagree with you.

Now a question for you: Why are you discouraging independent scumhunting?

EBWOP: Oh dear God. So much posting!

Fate, I did take a stance on your predecessor xvart. I think you're scum. I'll probably wind up voting you. You'll say this is buddying, but I've had a townish read on Antihero for more or less the whole game (not gonna do the whole iso thing tonight). And now you're calling for massclaim. Which you said earlier was what you'd do if you were rolefishing. So I guess you're conceding that point, huh?

What I got from your reaction to my Tasky vote: You never really had a case on me. It was a gambit to, as I said above, discourage independent thinking and bring the wayward sheep back in line - or why is it that every time I do something that you haven't wholeheartedly endorsed, you vote me, then when I make a craptastic vote with no reasoning (aka scummy play) suddenly you think I'm fine and dandy?

EBWOP AGAIN:
KoC, Fate isn't paralyzing the game, he's hijacking this bus we're all riding on and saying "my way or the highway." The game's still moving, but in the direction Fate wants it to move and only in the direction Fate wants it to move.

[smargaret]

In fact, I'll change the vote after I read things through, but I'm pretty sure I won't.

VOTE: Fate
Note to Mod: my unvote is earlier in the thread.

[smargaret]

EBWOP: Yeah, that was a wording fail. I meant to say I'll vote now, I may change it after I read things through, but I'm pretty sure I won't.

I so need to actually go to bed.

[smargaret]

FFS why am I still online?

1. Chronopie is an up-and-coming wagon. Espeonage was the big wagon earlier in the day. Who thinks Parama is scum? You do, and the people you've scared into sheeping you.

2. Yeah, I should have gone to bed after I posted that. I'm not going to get into why I didn't because it's too personal, but suffice it to say I wouldn't be effective reading isos tonight. I can still answer questions, I just don't want to go through an iso, completely miss something, and decide someone is town when they're not.

3. You're still calling for that massclaim. You don't know that it'll be warranted tomorrow or not.

4. I totally intend to make a grand and complete case on you/xvart. I'll read you and Antihero, per your request, tomorrow. I'm going to be V/LA Tuesday through Sunday, and I'm not sure when I'll be home on Sunday. Would you rather I didn't vote at all for the rest of the day? Also, hopefully after I post my case on you tomorrow, your wagon will be the viable one.

5. Don't call me toots. My fiance isn't allowed to call me toots, what makes you think you can?

[smargaret]

It's not just Tasky that you want outed, though, Fate. You want claims from every person that you consider scummy - and heaven help the poor soul who dares to disagree with you. Witness the explosion in your two (EBWOP: 3) most recent posts.

Why are you afraid of someone questioning your motivations? I didn't say it was scummy because I wasn't certain that it was scummy rolefishing. It was rolefishing, though, and that plus your OMGUS - which you practically admit it is - really makes me wonder about the towniness of your motivations.

Now, I'm going to go reread the game and read some isos. I hope to be able to post a list like Antihero wants before going V/LA (and that vote on Tasky was mostly to see what Fate would do, so UNVOTE: Tasky). I'll certainly manage to come up with my top choice for scum by then.

@ Mod, there's the unvote

.

[smargaret]

Massive Fate Case is upcoming, but I just wanted to repeat - it's not all based on the rolefishing accusation (which is I guess what Fate means when he talks about the misrep?)

[smargaret]

First in the Case Against Fate, Bhavitgoyal. His iso is reproduced in entirety below:




Yeah, there's nothing. Nada. Not a single post. + scumpoints for starting out as a lurker. So he gets replaced by xvart.

Xvart doesn't post any sort of response to the game so far, just jumps right in. Now, I can tell that this is sometimes hard to do, but the BS wagon looked so scummy, surely there was something to comment on there? Just jumping in isn't a playstyle I'm familiar with - most people seem to at least skim the thread when they replace in, especially if it's under 30 pages when they do so. xvart did no such thing.

Blooderection is the play today. I'm not joking.

VOTE: Blooderection

Hmmmm... Are you saying what I think you're saying?

Traduzione: io sono feccia e mi piacerebbe spingere due (probabile, idk circa manho) misslynches perché, si sa, le restrizioni post sono assegnati in modo casuale e tutti e nessuno feccia preso uno a questo gioco. [[TRANSLATED: I'm scum and I'd push two (probable, idk about Manh) misslynches because, you know, the restrictions are randomly assigned and all scum and no one got this game.]]

The post restrictions are randomly assigned? I was not aware of this. (going back to look at previous SWN games for any indication that this is true or public knowledge.)

xvart.

xvart starts rolefishing. Yeah, I was softclaiming, but there wasn't a real need for a fullclaim - I offered later in the day, and only one other person said that they wanted me to claim. So I'm already predisposed to think Fate is rolefishing when he talks about running people up to get a claim.

Then there's the mess with the post restrictions. Pushing a series of policy lynches instead of scumhunting (and that's the important part, the INSTEAD OF SCUMHUNTING - xvart wanted to go through and lynch chesskid day 2, then the other two prs days 3 and 4 if we didn't hit scum) is a bad idea any day but day 1 - there's stuff to actually scumhunt on, and xvart ignored it in favor of an unsupported policy lynch.

Funny, xvart thought Parama was the sk as well. Does anyone who knows the xvart and Fate better than I do know if it's likely that they'd get the same exact read like that? Not even dayvig/sk/delayed nk, but agreeing on the role?

xvart encourages people to follow him wrt Chesskid's pr claiming that he's posted translations. But they're inaccurate. Who's misrepping now?

Let me be more specific:

The Stove

- why did you not vote BE yesterday instead of Baby Spice? What changed overnight that made you insta vote BE without further evidence or justification?

LL

- why did you not vote BE yesterday instead of Baby Spice? What changed overnight that made you insta vote BE without further evidence or justification (other than your "amazing scum hunting skills)?

xvart.

More rolefishing, but this is more subtle - the only thing that's happened since BS's lynch was BS's flip, the nk/dayvig, and any night actions people may have. So pushing these people specifically is essentially asking them to admit to night actions and possibly describe them = rolefishing. This is the towniest of all the rolefishing this spot has done, but it's still pushing it.

the last time I made a post like this I was scum.

FoS: smargaret

As I recall, I think I made some points against smargaret a while back. Let me go back and check, but I am pretty sure I could swing for a smargaret lynch today in the unfortunate event that chesskid is not hanging from the gallows.

xvart.

Nothing wrong with the self-meta? And the "I'd be happy with this lynch" sounds scummy, especially after I softclaimed - you should want to lynch scum.

He's tunnelling on chesskid, not that chesskid's necessarily town, but come on, there's at least one more scum plus a possible sk out there! Then he starts posting to Stove, which is actually decent posting, but gets him ejected and in comes Fate.

CAPSLOCK ASPLODE!!!!

I see
-random voting as things come up, with frequent position changes - I don't know about how Fate usually replaces in, is the stream of consciousness catchup typical? That style always comes across as scummy and trying to distract town to me because it drags on and on and on and revives issues that were buried long ago. See in particular his view on Espeon - obvtown wagon must stop NAOW to voting.

Why was I prodded? >.<

Or hell, lynching princess here might be the best way to minimize claims today.

Shes REALLY grating my scumdarnerves with her refusal to post content ever.

But I thought you wanted claims from Tasky, Chrono, and Espeonage?

Well, xvart's gone so I'm not gonna respond to that mess.

Espeonage, where's your vote?

THIS IS ME REPLACING XVART, LIKING HIS POINTS, AND DEMANDING YOUR RESPONSE.

PLEASE AND THANK YOU.

See above about beating a dead horse when you post stream of consciousness catchups. That's a style thing though, and not sufficient for a vote in and of itself - but it does make me more inclined to vote Fate.

Hell we might even want to massclaim.

Yeah, this is important. Fate is waffling between wanting limited claims, mass claims, and minimizing claims - this is not the pulled-together (opinion-wise, anyway) town Fate I know.

Fate did have a new read. He says Parama is scum.

I would much rather see Parama investigated than lynched, especially since we have other scummy people about today. I'm not getting the Espeonage wagon - I don't want a wall post, but is there anything other than his resemblance to Nobody Special that has Espeonage down as scum?

We have another cop? What?

If you arent GETTING the Espeon wagon you're GETTING on this one.

INVESTIGATION-IMMUNE SK FTW?

Look I'll make a case on Parama tonight after I get home, if thats REALLY what you want. He's scum six ways to sunday and we could really use one less NK at night (since as SK he'll have to hit town now to win)

Where's this case? You're on me about how I need to make a case, but that case consists of "Parama's trying to change his meta! He doesn't care that I replaced in! He's making lists! OMG lists!" and I just don't see how that's supposed to convince anyone.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tasky

Happy Fate?

@ Mod I'll be V/LA Tuesday through Sunday with Thanksgiving stuff.

Reasonably.

Tasky fullclaim in your next post or I will turn my laser beams on you.

This is not a role fish. This is not a request. This is a demand that will end in your death if not met in a timely manner.

Pretty sure Tasky's voted since this post. Also pretty sure Fate's ignored it.

Okay, let's talk about my reaction to the Tasky reaction vote. I couldn't tell whether Fate's "You chewed up the town read and spat it out" was serious or pressure and tbh, I don't really like people assuming the role of town leader. So I wanted to see whether Fate would reverse his read just as quickly if I stepped back in line. So I did what Fate wanted - I put my vote on one of the leading wagons. Fate then drops any suspicion of me. Thus, I concluded that his scumreads are as punitive as the enhanced pat-downs, and about as worthwhile. When I get out of line, there I am back under the gun. So Fate isn't scumhunting, he's trying to get town to follow him and that can't be pro-town.

Stove if she leaves her vote on me and goes V/LA, I'll have no choice but to get her lynched.

I hope you understand. She is incredibly obvscum.

Fate seems awfully afraid of a single vote. I thought one vote standing alone didn't do much to pressure anyone, but gee, it sure seems to be pressuring Fate.

[smargaret]

Doing Antihero now, per request.

mmmmm... some of these LLD votes look dubious at best. Let's review the wagoners.

Mafuyu, Parama, Me=Weird, Antihero, Twomz, Reckamonic,

Nero Cain

, Nobody Special, chesskid3, Blooderection

Mafuyu

: RVS vote and kept it on, I haven't seen a reason yet; I have seen a bunch of active lurking, though. IGMEOY

Parama

: While the initial scumread isn't backed up, Parama does give implicit reasons for the LLD vote. I'm getting townvibes from him so far, so I think this is a good vote.

Me=Weird

: The vote is backed up with solid reasons. I'm thinking Me=Weird is town too.

Antihero

: I supported my vote with legit reaons.

Twomz

: Not sure what to make of this one. The vote isn't backed up, but that doesn't stick out in his ISO...

Reckamonic

: The buddying with parama is sending up a few red flags for me. This wagon hop is scummy.

Nobody Special

: Criticizes the first few pages of discussion, and then actively lurks, throwing an unexplained LLD vote in there. This wagon hop is scummy as well.

chesskid3

: I don't see a good reason with your vote. In fact, I think we left our first few pages argument at "I wasn't saying LLD was more likely to be scum, I was just helping her out." IGMEOY too.

Blooderection

: Misrepresentation of Espeonage + the awkward wagon hop = scummy; to me, this looks like scum eager to get to a lynch, which gives me some qualms with an LLD lynch...

Thinking back to NC's last post, I wonder who he was really bussing: LLD or chesskid? His earlier chesskid vote was pretty poorly supported.

Call it vote hopping if you want, but I have to think about this LLD wagon some more. I can't just sheep.

UNVOTE: Lady Lamdadelta

Preview Edit:

So you're saying we shouldn't lynch a VT claim day 1? That's funny... because usually we don't lynch claimed cops and shit.

gg.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Your vote relies on Espeonage being scum, which I don't think is the case (given NC's comments on him). Either that, or it relies on the premise of "lynch LLD because she claimed VT," which is a pretty flimsy argument to me.

Another preview edit:

LLD, please, I'd like to hear your take on the wagon.

This post more or less explains why LLD is town. There are three scum on her wagon; I can't see so many scumbags getting in on a bus. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were more scum on here.

Um yeah, I'm getting a town read on Antihero.

Until he starts defending me. WTH? He's been doing it all day, too, not just before Fate started in:

the last time I made a post like this I was scum.

FoS: smargaret

As I recall, I think I made some points against smargaret a while back. Let me go back and check, but I am pretty sure I could swing for a smargaret lynch today in the unfortunate event that chesskid is not hanging from the gallows.

xvart.

/headdesk

But yeah, that's about the only scummy thing I see from him. I don't think he's a viable lynch candidate for today.

[smargaret]

So Fate asks for a case, gets it, and refuses to read it? That's real pro-town behavior there.

Chesskid, I'm not understanding you at all. Rephrase the first sentence please, because I don't think you are really talking about laws at all.

[smargaret]

+ scumpoints for starting out as a lurker-

I refuse to read the rest of this case.

Stove, read it for me. Lynch worthy bullshit?

I read it, obviously, just wanted to see what you would say.

Now let me dismantle it limb from limb for the shitcase it is.

These are not both true.

[smargaret]

See: Tasky giving role-related reasons as to why we shouldn't lynch BE because he'll die anyways
See: BE/moth flipping town
See: Tasky obvtown

I don't get why this makes Tasky obvtown. Tasky could be scum and nk BE, thus setting himself up as confirmed town.

After rereading, I do see where the Parama=daykiller is coming from, but I'm not getting how we know it's a serial killer and not a dayvig. It seems like, with a 2/1 record, the daykiller is doing pretty well for the town, so I'm also not getting the motivation behind the lynch. After all, by Fate's own logic, if a player with an anti-town win condition is behaving in a pro-town way, we should keep them around, right?

Speaking of Fate, I took the discussion of Black and White to that thread. And do you need me to break the case on you down into bullet points to actually read it?

[smargaret]

Confirmation bias of smarg's read confirmed. bhavy-whatsit never even posted. That's not lurking, that's "not picking up role PM, not posting ANYTHING, not picking up prod".
The fact it's the first poitn of smarg's case worries me. Will address the rest after I go to lectures today. should be about 3PM GMT.

1. You didn't address the rest of it.
2. It was the first point in my case because I went through the ISOs of each player who had that role PM and grouped my thoughts individually. This sort of ties into what Fate is arguing about the best way to replace in is - I would argue that it's not to write a stream of consciousness, but rather to take notes and write a coherent post - just like I did with Fate's case. The notes can be stream of consciousness, and you maintain that fresh look at early-game interactions, but the post itself is (hopefully) organized and easy to read, and you don't waste time dealing with things like "Gee, I find BS scummy as heck" and find out three pages later she's dead and town. Also, the only other time I've seen the stream of consciousness thing, it was scum doing it.\

EBWOP: If it was scum with the delayed kill, why would there be no town/3rd party death nights 1 and 2?
EBWOPagain: Okay, so that's why no death night 2. But what about night 1? This game came with a night 0, so Tasky could have submitted an action then - unless you think BS was the scum target? I just don't see scum guessing the lynch twice. I also don't really see scum choosing to target a very scummy-looking player (BE was the second leading wagon at the end of day 1) for a delayed night kill.

[smargaret]

Tasky's votes:


Espeonage - RVS, four pages in.

BE - wagon.

BS - pressure.

M=W - OMGUS, OMGUS for voting LLD, saying OMGUS is a scumtell.

Toon Fighter - No reason given.

Toon Fighter - Again, no reason given.

The Stove - Ditto.

Chronopie - Quotes a post, gives no explanation.

smargaret - no reason given.

And that's it. There are several people Tasky FoS's (me, antihero, The Stove) without voting, and the fact that he votes both me and The Stove after getting someone else to build a case/add a vote, but not Antihero - who has had no such support for a wagon - makes it seem like Tasky is looking for the right wagon to jump on.

Even if Tasky isn't scum, he's not contributing anything to the town by not even giving a reason for the votes. Okay, a full-out case isn't necessary all the time, but you can't tell me that NEVER giving ANY sort of a reason behind your vote is okay. Seriously, the closest Tasky comes to explaining a vote is the vote on M=W - and why haven't we heard anything about M=W since yesterday? What changed?

If nobody's going to wagon Fate with me, I will join the Tasky wagon (for real this time). I'll be disappointed, but I'll join the Tasky wagon.

[smargaret]

Because I reread Tasky and saw the vote thing. Because while I do believe you're scum, you're also right that if my case isn't going to convince anyone my vote is wasted. Because we can always lynch you tomorrow.

Because I don't believe you and Tasky are scum together, so lynching either one of you works out okay in the end.

[smargaret]

and sheesh, I go to post in another game and Fate gets all impatient!

EBWOP:

I haven't mentioned multiple scum groups since wondering about the possibility EARLY day 1 - where on earth did that come from?

I also have no evidence for or against you being SK. You have that thing for Tasky being scum poisoner that I don't necessarily agree with.

I have no clue what you are talking about in the fourth line, and no clue how my alignment would affect that.

EBWOP again: I'd better get extra time for this.

Tomorrow we'll have night actions, a lynch, possibly a daykill and a nightkill for flips. There will be more information and depending on who is killed, I may be able to build a better case.

Even scum can - and does - argue townie theory to try to look pro-town.

[smargaret]

Nope. Not gonna do it. I am in a grand total of one other game (that isn't at night) and it's not fair to that game if I only post here. Also, if someone comes into the room IRL and asks me a question, I'm sorry, but that takes priority over getting yelled at by someone on the computer.

[smargaret]

Sorry for not being psychic, Fate. I quit; I'm done for the night. I'm not going to ruin my night over your BS. Maybe I'll come back and respond to you tomorrow. That'll be a hell of a lot more likely when you quit with the personal attacks and the yelling.

[smargaret]

Fate, two can play at this rolefishing game.

Did you use a night action last night?

[smargaret]

The answer to this determines whether or not you're on the top of my list, by the way.

[smargaret]

Either this will confirm me as town, or it will confirm Fate as scum.

[smargaret]

I'm not asking you to claim; I'm not even asking Fate to claim. I'm just asking if he used a night action last night.

[smargaret]

Stove, I will not make any attempt to find out what Fate did. I may ask a single follow up question, but it will have zero role-related information.

Lynch me if I lie.

[smargaret]

Oh, and if Fate doesn't answer my question, I'm not claiming. I will fullclaim if he answers, though.

[smargaret]

We have had three people flip scum - NC, NS, and Mafuyu. That leaves one mafia, assuming sk/4 mafia.

[smargaret]

Why won't you answer my question, Fate?

It's the only way you'll get me to claim.