Mafia 126 - Lovers Mafia! [Game Over]

[GreyICE]

Vote: xReckonerx

Last alphabetically... first on the list.

Coincidence? Or conspiracy?

[GreyICE]

Also I really smell a mass lovers claim coming on at some point.

[GreyICE]

Vote GreyICE

first to post is nearly always scum. And suggesting, without suggesting a mass claim is also scummy.

Okay, how about this:

I suggest a mass claim so we know who we're lynching

Better?

[GreyICE]

Also I really smell a mass lovers claim coming on at some point.

Vote: GreyICE

Well well well, look at that, I don't even have to put down a RVS vote. Quickest exit from RVS ever? I think so.

So are you werewolf scum or mafia scum? The crowd wants to know.

[GreyICE]

I'm confused. When does day 1 end?

When we lynch xRECKONERx.

You have to put "Vote: xRECKONERx" in bold tags, and you'll be contributing to a noble cause.

[GreyICE]

Oh I'm sorry he's your lover Reck, that sucks

Oh well, you're still scum, I'll lynch you.

[GreyICE]

How many games have you completed on this site, GreyICE?

I wanna know.

On this site? One, so far.

And look. I can already find obvscum. I mean does it hurt to be this bad at this?

[GreyICE]

You mean it's not pro-town to see if two different players are lovers together and acting scummy together they might be, I dunno... scum?

[GreyICE]

Massclaim is bad because it conveniently shows scum who they can eliminate simultaneously. That's an advantage for scum. I believe loverclaim should only happen when someone is in danger of a lynch.

Oh okay. Because the Mafia and Werewolves can eliminate us how?

Mod wrote:Welcome to Lovers Multiball!

You were looking forward to a romantic getaway with your lover, but when the hotel brochure mentioned it had a special for couples, you assumed it meant for married couples. Now that you've seen that most of the lovers here aren't wed, you're infuriated with rage, and will make them pay for their choice to claim to be lovers without marrying eachother. You murdered the hotel manager, who doesn't wear a ring, and yet you saw kissing a girl, and will gladly take care of business with the rest of these phoneys. You have entered this venture with your soulmate, XXX, and also got the assistance of a fellow married couple, XXX and XXX. You've been married to your soulmate since the day you turned 18, and can't imagine life without them, and so if they are killed during this attempt, you will commit suicide so as to show that not even death will separate you from your lover.

You are a Mafia Lover. You win when there are only Mafia Lovers alive in the hotel, or nothing can prevent the same.
You may speak with your fellow Mafia Lovers HERE as long as you are alive.

Mod wrote:Welcome to Lovers Multiball!

You and your lover, both werewolves, were trying to plan your victims for the next full moon, when you saw an ad in the paper for a Valentine's Day hotel getaway package. You knew it was the perfect opportunity to strike, and so booked your tickets immediately. Upon arrival, you did your best to blend in with the croud, until the first night, when you went to work under influence of the full moon. As you were tracking a young woman you saw, you noticed another pair of werewolves, XXX and XXX, doing the same thing. After sharing the kill, you realize you're much better off working together than apart, and so vow to stick together for this, as there's safety in numbers. You've never had respect, much less love, from anyone but your lover since you were bitten, and so can't imagine living without them; if they are killed, you will commit suicide.

You are a Werewolf Lover. You win when Werewolf Lovers are all that remain in the hotel, or nothing can prevent the same.
You may speak with your fellow Werewolf Lovers HERE as long as you are alive.

Hmm, there seems to be SOMETHING MISSING.

Hey Reckoner, so eager to start posting you never checked if you got your cool dark side powers?

[GreyICE]

Uh, yeah, think that one's less convincing

Unfortunately, I think this clears xRECKONERx because there's no way that all 4 scum in the scum QT missed the fact that they don't have a night kill (unless we have exceptionally dense scum on one of the teams... Reck, is your lover really Vezok?).

It half clears Purple Orange, but the 'oh lolz' is a little contrived, but I'll say town.

So now I need more scum reads.

[GreyICE]

@ GreyICE

You had one game on this site. Can you link to it?

How many games do you have on other sites - if any?

It's linked in my Wiki page, mini 1105. You can also find my ongoing through my post history.

As for other sites, I'm on MTGS, but I have a different style there, and a different name. I won't be sharing it with you because there's a certain level of MTGS bullshit that I'd really like to stay out of, and I have zero desire to have it spill to here. Lets just say that place attracts a few drama queens.

Now what fucking relevance does this have to the game? I mean besides distracting us all from it with IoA.

[GreyICE]

Grey:

Also I really smell a mass lovers claim coming on at some point.

That doesn't sound like

"I suggest a mass claim so we know who we're lynching"

.
That sounds like someone who hopes it won't happen, but figures it will, so is going to get early credit while doing little to nothing to actually have one happen. 

Vote: GreyICE

Here's how you get a mass lover claim:
I'm paired with Thingy.

Also, the only one it clears is silavor.  The only way it clears Reckoner or PO is if you believe that antitowns wouldn't lie when it's advantageous for them to do so.

Nah, I believe the anti-towns wouldn't be stupid when it's stupid. PO looks a little contrived, but Reck just looks like he had no idea the setup, which is nigh-unpossible for scum.

BTW, I got voted because I suggested a mass lover claim, then I got voted because I didn't suggest a mass lover claim and was trying to earn town points for it?

This is massively ironic.

And, btw, Antihero (which is why he's ignoring the Reck/ICE drama, PO )

[GreyICE]

It has the relevance that I'd read you differently, depending on how many games that you have played. An experienced player can't be cleared as easily as an inexperienced player. Are you really getting upset by me asking you about your previous games?

What does IoA mean?

P.S. I confirm my masonry with EmpTyger.

A little bit. There's more drama than I'm entirely comfortable with involved in MTGS, hysterically enough not in the Mafia forum at all, but I just want to avoid it. I have a completed game on this site, and several ongoing.

IoA is Information over Analysis, and is when one focuses on providing information and details, rather than meaning and reasoning.

[GreyICE]

Oh, btw, there's a "Wiki" button under people's names. My Wiki has my one completed game on it. I might update it with ongoing at some point.

[GreyICE]

So far, in order claimed:

EmpTyger - Thingyman
GreyICE - Antihero

P.S. Wiki page updated with ongoings.
P.P.S. We seem to have lost a RECKONER

[GreyICE]

I agree with massclaiming.
Being able to read players in pairs will help us get more accurate reads.

Also since there are no NKs who wins 1scumv1town endgames and so forth?

I'm going to guess we default back to our ol' 50% rule.

Which leaves 1 Werewolf/1 Mafia endgames a tad ambiguous, but I'm sure the mods have a super secret way of dealing with that that does not in any way resemble flipping coins.

So whose your partner?

[GreyICE]

I think American, I certainly am American

No, I have no idea where people are.

[GreyICE]

Pretty sure that people won't vote for their lover.

EmpTyger - Thingyman
GreyICE - Antihero
Llamarble - DarlaBlueEyes

[GreyICE]

Lover claim: Nero Cain

Also, I'm going to

UNVOTE

because my vote was based on the idea that scum had NK.

Well, guess this is going to be the closest I get to an apology.

I'll take it

IIOA

EmpTyger - Thingyman
GreyICE - Antihero
Llamarble - DarlaBlueEyes
Implosion - Kise
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain

[GreyICE]

silavor:

Grey:
Right, that's the point. Your words don't match your actions.

How so?

Let’s say you’re town and you genuinely wanted a massclaim at the start of D1. How would you go about doing it? Maybe you’d list the arguments for. Maybe you’d lead by example. Maybe something else.

But I don’t think you’d say it should happen “at some point” and then do nothing to encourage it, instead just attacking Reckoner. To me, that fits someone who is worried a massclaim is going to happen but doesn’t want it to. It’s like saying “I should vote X” but then finding something else to do or someone else to vote instead.

You mean around post #10, before you had posted in the thread?

*shakes head*

Some people...

[GreyICE]

I want drammie to get home from work ;_;

That way I know which whore I have to kill that stole my lover away from me

Don't worry, I'm sure someone will give you Vezok back if you ask nicely.

[GreyICE]

GreyIce:
Don't want the other part to be lost. Why do you think that mafia wouldn't pretend to be unaware of the mafia role PM? (or werewolves of the werewolf PM?) You handwaved that away as "because it's stupid". But it seems to me much more likely than mafia wanting to seem very acquainted with that PM.

Because I don't frequently see people do the play where they pretend to be ignorant of the game setup. I especially don't see them doing it the way Reck did - taking, by assumption, something to be true that is not true. The Werewolves/Mafia know there's no night kill, a 4 player hive mind isn't going to miss that one. Reck proceeded under the direct assumption that it didn't exist, with not the least bit of contrivance in his posting to indicate any self-awareness that his assumption was utterly false.

That says town to me.

Now, I think my vote is doing something useless right now. Lemme read what's been posted since last night...

Unvote

Vote: Espeonage

Could you be a

little

more nonconfrontational and skim the thread a

bit

harder? You've got a list of posts contributing nothing but creating a "solid" history of "helpful" posting... yeah, this would be the top scumread so far.

[GreyICE]

IIoA:

EmpTyger - Thingyman
GreyICE - Antihero
Llamarble - DarlaBlueEyes
Implosion - Kise
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain
VezokPiraka - SnakePlissken
q21 - Umbrage
Maryita - Tragedy
Kcdaspot - Baby Spice

[GreyICE]

It's been a while since I dipped my toes in the water of MTGS, but if I remember VezokPiraka, that's fairly standard levels of analysis from him. I'm glad we have his partner Snake, we can hopefully get something from him since he posted on...

IIoA:
EmpTyger - Thingyman
GreyICE - Antihero
Llamarble - DarlaBlueEyes
Implosion - Kise
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain
VezokPiraka - SnakePlissken
q21 - Umbrage
Maryita - Tragedy
Kcdaspot - Baby Spice
PurpleOrange - Espeonage

[GreyICE]

Why the jump to his defense, Grey?

Because i've seen a speed lynch of vezok before, it doesn't necessarily end in a scum flip. I'd rather get some more reads and lynch scum.

[GreyICE]

EMP: stop confusing "impossible" and "unlikely" right the hell now. It seems like you don't want anyone to have a town read on anyone.

[GreyICE]

GreyIce:
I think it's neither "unlikely" nor "impossible". Especially after what Kise just said. Which is why I wonder why you keep insisting that it is.
(And way to hyperbolicly go from "Reckoner" -> "everyone")

And purple orange. but yes, I think you're trying to make everyone as suspect as possible. You had one town read, on a minor null, and it was based on your awful reading comprehension.

[GreyICE]

LOL, snake, that was a bit of a joke. If you're paired with Piraka, and he's nigh impossible to read, you have to be the one we read, and you last posted on page 1. When I get off this bleeding phone and to a real machine, I have some thoughts, including on our lurkers (some people haven't posted, I believe. Come on people, this isn't a spectator sport).

(much love if you get the reference)

Unvote

PO is a town read, and again explains some of espy's behavior, so my vote is now being stupid. Will review tonight and find a good spot for it.

[GreyICE]

@Mod: I will now officially laugh at you if this game ends in a draw, you realize.

@EMP: Seriously man, what part of that post made sense?

As for the massclaim, I thought it would happen, Antihero wasn't too sure. We've been poking each other about it a bit

[GreyICE]

/sheeps lover

vote: q21

[GreyICE]

Hmm, I may have to adopt that one myself. I kinda dislike calling people "scum." Wolves seems a lot... nicer somehow. Okay, I'm stealing it! Wolves it is.

<- will slip within the next day or two

I need to review this game a bit myself. I admit, not even knowing who all the lover pairings are and the vast amounts of lurking I smell are getting me down.

[GreyICE]

Someone is lying. To provide evidence against another person. This falls under

Lynch All Liars.

I wanna see this log, and if its not forthcoming, well... bad news Kise.

[GreyICE]

/sheeps lover

Try harder please.

Says the guy who never read the PMS posted at the start of the thread? NO U

Seriously, we have like this quicktopic, Antihero has been pointing out q21 has been needling people without taking any real stances or providing any logic, his response is to needle without taking any real stances. Antihero is convincing, he wins.

On the other hand, Kise will win it away from him with that play.

Mariyta - Good point. No need to see the chat log's existence, Kise, if you have it, you have it. Post some sort of screenshot, something. If you don't, well... uh oh.

P.S. If discussion of a pregame chat is acceptable, I don't know why evidence of that chat's existence or lack thereof is not acceptable. I'll wait to hear from Kise, but I'm leaning very RECKONER on this.

[GreyICE]

Oh, lol, nice typo. I meant PMs. You were just

responsible

for the PMS at the start of the thread

[GreyICE]

You're leaning voting me, or believing me?

Believing, believe it or not

[GreyICE]

Since it seems relevant, here's the list. AGAIN.

Lover List

10/12 claimed

EmpTyger - Thingyman
GreyICE - Antihero
Llamarble - DarlaBlueEyes
Implosion - Kise
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain
VezokPiraka - SnakePlissken
q21 - Umbrage
Maryita - Tragedy
Kcdaspot - Baby Spice
PurpleOrange - Espeonage

List of the Useless

Post useful things to get off this list.

dramonic

Nero Cain

(See: Lover) (Still: Post Moar)

Vezok Piraka

(Lifetime achievement award)
kcdaspot
werewolf555

implosion

(See: Lover) (Still: Post Moar)
SnakePlisskin (Team effort award)
Llamarble (Team effort award)
DarlaBlueEyes (Team effort award)

Weird Ass Teams

Umbrage/q21

- like 15-20 combined posts, 1-2 sentences worth of total content.

Vezok/Snake

- Combined content = virtually nothing

Llamarble/DarlaBlueEyes

- Combined content = failboat

[GreyICE]

Why am I not on the List of the Useless? I've done absolutely nothing.

Tragedy just posted in another game, so maybe she'll finally show here? Maybe?

Oversights may have occurred. Also, I'm starting to like the cut of your jib

[GreyICE]

OVERSIGHTS MAY HAVE OCCURRED.

UPDATED LIST GODDAMN IT.

Lover List

11/12 claimed

1/12 By Captain Obvious

EmpTyger - Thingyman
GreyICE - Antihero
Llamarble - DarlaBlueEyes
Implosion - Kise
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain
VezokPiraka - SnakePlissken
q21 - Umbrage
Maryita - Tragedy
Kcdaspot - Baby Spice
PurpleOrange - Espeonage
Haylen - Silvador

Werewolf555 - Dramonic

(combined content: 0.6 pig farts)

[GreyICE]

Holy fuck, it's not me that's raging in a game. I'm enjoying this.

[GreyICE]

OKAY.
NEW POLICY.
I DON'T MISSPELL NAMES. OTHER PEOPLE PICK BAD USERNAMES. I SPELL THEM CORRECTLY.

[GreyICE]

Not up to date, but I see we're lover claiming

My lover is... Werewolf.

;_;
Babe, make him go awaaaaaaaaaaaay.
Without lynching me if possible.

*puts some popcorn in the microwave*

*waits for Reck's reaction*

[GreyICE]

he hasn't found Dramonic's post yet.
*

popcorn

*

[GreyICE]

It's okay, I'm pretty sure werewolf is pretending like werewolf isn't playing.

So is kcdaspot.

[GreyICE]

Oh for fuck's sake, this isn't fun anymore. Haylen, serious? Boo.

Although maybe it will give you some time to get on your hydra and [REDACTED] which has been giving us blue balls for [REDACTED]

[GreyICE]

@ GreyICE...you're lurking backstage, man. Wassup with that? Things too interesting in the scum quicktopic? I iz missing your awesome scumhunting craziness.

Gimme till tonight/the weekend. I'm doing a lot of my posting from my phone, and things are a tad crazy right now

I have thoughts on this game, and I need some time to formulate them. Also want to bounce them off Antihero in the QT, maybe filter some of my more absurd nonsense.

[GreyICE]

Idea #1: You're scum. We'll expound upon this at length, it's already been expounded upon a bit in our quickthread. I'd hop into yours with your three other friends to see what you can brew up.

[GreyICE]

Okay, lets review the post history of the

q21

/

Umbrage

(may I call you Dolores?) Lovers

Q21

In his first post, he comes into an interesting discussion that is the end of the RVS. What's interesting is how he handles it. Q21 just... sheeps the biggest wagon he sees. His next input into the thread? He goes after VezokPiraka (the definition of an easy target, pretty much) for mindlessly sheeping. What's next? He jumps on Reck's Haylen vote. Remember, his last two posts before this were about mindlessly sheeping, which he apparently doesn't like. Then he... mindlessly sheeps?

Five posts into the thread, you have two votes, none of which have reasons behind them, one attack, on an easy target, which was not followed by a vote, and two instances of sheeping. I honestly think that short of hardclaiming a scum role, you'd be hard pressed to pick a scummier way to make five posts.

So what is Umbrage busy doing?

Umbrage

Well, first he votes for Reckoner. The person attacking me.

While q21 was voting me

. He then votes EmpTyger. For what?

Attacking me again.

Remember, this is a hydra team with their own QT. And they've reached the conclusion that I'm scum, and the people attacking me are... scum for attacking me?

What next? Well, a lot of people seem mad at Reckoner. He votes Reckoner. He then FoS' me, after attacking the people defending me earlier. And complains about how I haven't put out enough content after being part of most of the early-game discussion in the thread.

His response to Antihero's push on this scumteam? Questions. He answers questions with questions. Why? He's scared of where the followups to his answers would lead, and

stalling for time

. Three others back in the QT to help him answer this one?

Summary:

Basically, we have a team that seems dead set on doing nothing so much as sowing discord and pushing the wagons and attacks that others are making. They vote both sides of a wagon - long before claiming, so it looks like independent support. They try to bandwagon whatever the prevailing sentiment is. They have contributed, by my measure, somewhere between jack and shit. We've seen some serious lover disagreement in this thread, but pushing two sides of a wagon to make BOTH sides look scummier without even acknowledging this dichotomy? Trying to not make cases or draw attention to themselves? Responding to votes and attacks with questions and stalling?

This sounds like scum to me.

Vote: q21

[GreyICE]

Thingyman the correct solution to "Wine In Front Of Me" is to break the neck of the wineglass and use it to shiv the other person's throat.

[GreyICE]

I submit mini 1105: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15934

Every single scum in it was 'too scum to be scum.' There's a reason scum died every day. Check the ISOs of Zdenek/Drizzle, RobCapone, and Jerbs. They're unbelievable.

Usually what is 'newbie' scum or 'VI' scum is shit like what VezokPiraka and Snake are pulling in this thread. You know, lurking, shitposting, mindless sheeping, etc. But you know what even the worst poster has? A general consistency pattern, when they're being honest. You do NOT attack someone for 'mindless sheeping' then turn around and straight up say 'oh look, mindless sheep.' The biggest way to determine if posting is just idiotic or really scummy? Basic honesty. Those posts lack basic honesty.

[GreyICE]

I was bed-ridden yesterday, coughing my lungs out. What's your excuse? What great things have you contributed so far?

And that's not me dodging with a question. That's me trying to get you to defend yourself legitimately instead of pulling this crappy OMGUS-style counter-attack. You've got some nerve saying I'm avoiding you. You never found me scummy until I called the two of you out. Coincidence?

Ah, I see. Not a bad strategy. You attack one strong poster, your partner attacks a different strong poster, then if one of us points out your scummy behavior, you go "OMGUS!"

Yeah, here's the thing. Umbrage? Your posting FUCKING SUCKS. So does your partner's. Your posting is scummy as shit.

You played the OMGUS? Go look at my wagon. How many of the people on it have I attacked? Wait, what? Oh that's right, I don't give a shit about wagons on me. I give a shit about catching scum. This was the scummiest response possible to give. It addressed nothing I said. It was just personal attacks and nonsense. Anyone, ANYONE can check the voting history and verify there is no OMGUS going on. Just you actually sucking, a lot.

You Umbrage? You're scum.

[GreyICE]

1. Some strategy. q21's disappeared, the only thing I've gotten from him is a promise of more content soon. You really think a vote and one question shows a planned attack?

2. Fuck you. I don't know how else you expect me to respond to this, when I'm doing my best to catch up in this game while coughing and sweating with a strong fever and you call my posting shit without bothering to take a single quote of mine, or make a single valid argument as to WHY.

3. Try again. I said you were using an OMGUS-style defence, AKA attacking the person who's attacking you, swearing, throwing ad hominem at them, dismissing everything with "your posting is shit", and basically trying to yell louder than the person attacking you.

You come in here, guns blazing for... whoever. It appears you haven't read much or all of the thread, so I assume that it's basically targets picked more or less at random. You're too sick to read the thread... you're not too sick to attack and needle people in the thread. Okay...

I am feeling reasonably certain I located scum here. Your plaintive cries of "OMGUS" are worthless. Between you and your partner, you've prodded and attacked most of the active posters in the thread. You've been hostile and vindictive while admittedly not even knowing what you're being hostile over and what has been going on in the thread.

So your partner has disappeared. Well cool. Oh wait, he was posting on this site as of Friday. In this thread as of Thursday. Yeah, some disappearance. Basically this is not the OMGUS defense. This is the "poor little me" defense. "My partner has been gone for... uh... less than a day from this site." "I was too sick to read the thread, all I could do was shitpost and attack people without reading the thread!" "I'm coughing my brains out!"

[GreyICE]

GreyIce:
Just because q21 reaches a conclusion doesn’t mean that Umbrage is going to agree with it. (And I should know, given Thingy and my own differing feelings about you.)

Are you saying that you and Antihero agree with every single thing the other of you says?

No, of course not. A total and complete 180 from each other without even ACKNOWLEDGING each other's position? That feels less like 'a disagreement' and more like 'playing both sides' to me.

[GreyICE]

GreyIce:

No, of course not. A total and complete 180 from each other without even ACKNOWLEDGING each other's position? That feels less like 'a disagreement' and more like 'playing both sides' to me.

Huh? Here's the post in question:

Lover Claim: Umbrage

... and on that note.

Oh. My. God. You. SUCK!

Bitchslap Vote implosion

That said, I disagree with my lovers attack on Emptypger and happen to agree that GreyICE's tentative, wishy-washy-ness around the massclaim issue on page one was scummy, therefore.

Vote GreyICE

<--- That one's real.

And then this, don't forget:

@Espy: GreyICE is scum. He is just trying to make a case on someone who knows is easy to be lynched. He didn't read any posts in this thread but he is accusing you of that. Hypocritical scum.

So you think GreyICE is scum... but you're blindly sheeping reck to vote emp who is attacking GreyIce...

Right, you're scum too.

That one is much more fucking terrible, actually.

[GreyICE]

Yes. I'm in this thread, playing this game. Trying to win. You don't like it, replace out.

Oh Umbrage, I am so certain this is the only true an honest line you wrote in that post of personal attacks and total gibberish.

The problem is that I am in this thread trying to win too. I just believe our win conditions are antithetical to each other's. How about I lynch you, rather than replace out?

The rest of your post was fucking garbage, and I'm just going to let it stand for the rest of the town to see. It was personal attacks, complete babble, and whining to the skies that "OMGUS." I don't feel any real need to convince you that your scum. The role PM you got at the beginning of the game should do that. My goal has been to convince the rest of the town your scum, and my god does your supposed 'defense' accomplish that.

[GreyICE]

LYNCH ME TO FIND OUT IF I FLIP WEREWOLF OR MAFIA

[GreyICE]

Bullshit.

You still haven't shown why I am scummy. You haven't shown what statements of mine are poor, or stated why they are poor. You haven't responded intelligently to any of my posts. You clearly haven't even read my posts, or you wouldn't make stupid mistakes like saying I accused you of OMGUS. If the town is stupid enough to believe you, then I'll be happy to be lynched.

I don't think town is that stupid, though.

Oh wait, maybe they are:

Umbrage, on OMGUS: An "evolving position?"

Idea #1: You're scum. We'll expound upon this at length, it's already been expounded upon a bit in our quickthread.

I bet you have. OMGUS much?

And that's not me dodging with a question. That's me trying to get you to defend yourself legitimately instead of pulling this crappy OMGUS-style counter-attack. You've got some nerve saying I'm avoiding you. You never found me scummy until I called the two of you out. Coincidence?

Let me try and explain this one more time

[Because you explained it in the first place?]

. I am saying that your attack on me is a strategy, and a scummy one, designed to try and deflect attention off of yourself. I used the term OMGUS to illustrate how this strategy is used. It is not traditional OMGUS, which is attacking someone who is attacking you solely because they are attacking you. This is attacking someone who is attacking you because you want to deflect attention off of yourself. Like OMGUS, but different.

You clearly haven't even read my posts, or you wouldn't make stupid mistakes like saying I accused you of OMGUS.

So... did Umbrage really mean what he said he meant? Or did he accuse me of OMGUS and then realize that he didn't have a hope in hell of getting that charge to stick, and 'evolve' his position? Is this sort of flailing about typical of town facing down a mislynch, or scum facing down a mislynch?

Well, lets see.

No… no, it doesn't. And even if it did have to be one of us, your reasons for voting me over Kise are, quite frankly, bullshit. So you're either really bad at being town or really bad at being mafia, I just can't figure out which.

Excellent argument there. My reasons are bullshit, eh? Can't argue with that.

And of course you're not biased in any way. No sir.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, fucking right.

Does anyone who is not Umbrage want a history of the scummy things he's done? Or were my earlier posts on the subject quite enough? As I said before, I have no real interest in convincing scum they're scum - it's a battle that can't be won.

PEDIT: And suddenly, a flurry of posts! To review in a bit.

[GreyICE]

GreyICE 343 - Well done, you've managed to prove that I'm disinterested. Doesn't indicate scum or town for me, but that's a meta argument and you (or anyone else) would have to be a genuine moron to trust self meta, so meh. As for myself and Umbrage going in opposite direction? Sadly, I guess for both of us, we got paired with someone who reads the game almost completely differently 90+% of the time. We are both capable of reading correctly (well, I know I am and I think Umbrage is) but very rarely will our reads overlap - at least in the early game. Our choice then becomes that either one or both of us has to shift our methods of reading the game and play outside of what we know in order to present a united front or we each individually forge on with what we believe to be right.
Also, scum are vastly more likely to agree with each other in thread because that means that can go about building bandwagons with - in what is a very rare case in mafia games - sheep votes that are perfectly reasonable.

By Thor, it lives! And... posts more content than Umbrage has managed to in his entire time in the thread. Holy goddamn what the fuck?

I'm inclined to see where you're coming from. Certainly me and antihero aren't 100% eye to eye. And I agree it makes more sense as a scum strategy to lurk and be disinterested.

Unfortunately, I'm not necessarily getting a town vibe from this. The distracting back on to the Reckoner/Kise shit is unbelievable. And playing the reasonable half of the pair is weird. Honestly, q21, what you called good scumplay at this stage, forming blocks? It's bad scumplay because it's visible a mile away. Like "Oh look, those 4 people always agree with each other, and they tend to float from wagon to wagon, and hey look! Scum!"

I've said it before: I don't drink wine, I break goblets and use them as shivs. You two have honestly been playing a lot like scum. Umbrage? He still is.

[GreyICE]

unvote

Vote: kcdaspot

Not like Umbrage/q21 can NK me, that's a problem for another day.

[GreyICE]

unvote

Vote: kcdaspot

Not like Umbrage/q21 can NK me, that's a problem for another day.

Wait...What? How are you so sure of this?

insert facepalm.png

[GreyICE]

Can I like... vote kcdaspot harder?

Umbrage is still either scum or fucking awful town. I say scum.

[GreyICE]

Am I the only one that has noticed GreyICE has posted almost nothing remotely useful?

You'll get your turn with the noose, be patient.

[GreyICE]

We've found scum.

kcd or umbrage? Because I'm inclined to say... yes.

[GreyICE]

The problem with that is essentially twofold. I'm not arguing for a quicklynch, but if we all come to the conclusion that there's scum, then we can lynch. No one will be NKed.

Second, if we need more time, we just let the deadline slide past and reset all our votes. I suppose after a while the mod might get annoyed and do things like make us look at that godawful avatar more (love ya Sens, but that avatar is shit) but w/e.

So I'm just planning to blithely ignore said deadlines.

[GreyICE]

how about you fill that out first?
Nice fence sitting.

Has anyone noticed that werewolf's sole "contribution" to this game is to attack people who attack umbrage/q21?

[GreyICE]

What bothers me about Umbrage is that her reaction to all of this makes me think 'town'.

Pitching a temper tantrum in the middle of the thread makes you think town? Just makes me think desperate.

But whatever. Debate for another day. kcdaspot wasn't the better wagon when I posted my case (ya I do those, preemptive stfu issued). Those scumtastic posts he belched into the thread though? Yeaaaahhhhhhh. That changed that one.

[GreyICE]

how about you fill that out first?
Nice fence sitting.

Has anyone noticed that werewolf's sole "contribution" to this game is to attack people who attack umbrage/q21?

I believe he was trying to tell that to

everybody

nice try scum

Oh, it talks! Well... kinda.

Any input on scum reads or anything? Anything you've picked up in your vast insight into the town?

[GreyICE]

To those of you who legitimately find Esp/PO and GreyICE/Antihero scummy, can you please post actual cases on them? I've looked through the thread a couple times, but all I've found is people saying they look scummy/are being scummy without actually saying what's scummy. If you honestly think they're scum, I'd like to know why, because I just don't see it.

Finally, someone interested in actual cases.

My case on Grey and Antihero started when I noticed that although they've been posting frequently, they haven't really said anything useful beyond providing lists of who is paired with whom. It's more obvious with GreyICE because he's been posting more frequently. Look at his ISO. On page 2, between the end of his attack on EmpTyger and the start of his attack on me, he gives almost nothing. This is a huge part of the game we're talking about, the crap with Kise and Reck happened here. It's like he's not even there. They're obviously capable of aggressive play, but it appears they only choose to use it when I FoS them. Grey's best play was in the earlier stages of the game.

I wanted to write more, but I've left this post up for far too long, so I'll just send it.

Normally I'd laugh with Mariyta and Reck, but in this game, I'm not sure they're joking.

For your information, I didn't want to get involved because it was a factual debate. There is literally no point in debating facts - either they are true, or they are not. What am I going to do, jump in and go "oh, well, my completely uninformed opinion is that the

facts

Reck is presenting are true, and the

facts

Kise presented are indeed false?"

It appears, general consensus, that what Kise presented as fact was false. I mean seriously, what's the point of debating it at that time? Add a voice that knows nothing about those chats and logs to the situation? Now that I know that Kise presented to the town information that was clearly factually incorrect, I can decide how to proceed with that knowledge. But determining whether that information was factually correct? I added nothing whether I posted anything or not.

[GreyICE]

GreyIce:

For your information, I didn't want to get involved because it was a factual debate. There is literally no point in debating facts - either they are true, or they are not. What am I going to do, jump in and go "oh, well, my completely uninformed opinion is that the

facts

Reck is presenting are true, and the

facts

Kise presented are indeed false?"

It appears, general consensus, that what Kise presented as fact was false. I mean seriously, what's the point of debating it at that time? Add a voice that knows nothing about those chats and logs to the situation? Now that I know that Kise presented to the town information that was clearly factually incorrect, I can decide how to proceed with that knowledge. But determining whether that information was factually correct? I added nothing whether I posted anything or not.

If your take on the situation (which I disagree with, but ignoring that for a second) is that

“what Kise presented as fact was false”

, and you believe that that’s the general consensus… then why haven’t you done anything with that?

But that’s not an accurate presentation of the “facts”. The “facts” include what q21 just showed: that Reckoner could have very, very easily edited his alleged “proof”.

Sigh, I hate text walls. Oh well, might as well respond to this.

I believe Kise admitting that he very well could have been mistaken in his recollection is as good as saying that Reckoner was telling the truth. Is it a mathematical proof? No, but I'd say that if we're going to be asinine about it, preponderance of the evidence points to Reckoner being accurate. Why am I not pursuing it further? Well, he went about it in a somewhat pro-town way.

Lovers Multiball is in there. I refuse to believe your back and forth with Grey wasn't forced as a way to claim ignorance, and wtfx---- is the name I talked to during signups. Unvote; Vote: xRECKONERx Simple shit here, people. A town flip of one means you lynch the other. Start with me or him, whatever.

Implosion-Kise are pinging my "scumdar" a bit, but frankly, I am not worried about it right now. He's a lot more town than Umbrage/q21 and kcdaspot/Baby Spice. No, really, go review the ISO of that last pair.

[GreyICE]

BTW, I consider a 'text wall' and a 'long post' fundamentally different. A text wall attempts to stop you from reading it in any way, shape or form. Those sorts of quote/one line, quote/one line definitely succeeds at that.

[GreyICE]

This post is bullshit. Clearly, both people cannot be right, therefore one must be wrong. Facts do not contradict one another. If it's a fact that the world is round, it cannot be a fact that it is flat. There is no excuse for being uninformed. Read over their posts, ask them questions, then deduce who is lying. Because that's all you need to do: figure out who is lying. Don't take other people's word for what is happening, that is horrible play.

And the situation looked to be playing out exactly like that. Honestly, I don't feel this overwhelming jump into every situation that's resolving itself just to prove that I have the biggest cock in this forum. It just stirs shit up by annoying people, muddies the issue, and accomplishes nothing. Some things can and do resolve without my involvement.

If you think that's fucking terrible play, well, I take that as gospel from an unbiased reviewer who definitely knows what they're talking about, Dolores.

[GreyICE]

Espy's unvote would be my fault. I told him I was seeing a helluva lot of STUPID from kcda, but not necessarily scum. And that BS was V/LA for the past couple days, not lurking, and that we were jumping on this thing with very little data. Also that I found it hard to believe that a 4-person scum daytalk quicktopic would let kcda behave so darn badly, or be unable to fill him in on the right details. The fact that Emp also didn't like the wagon reinforced my caution.

Espy is wanting to play some stuff close to the chest, here, and I've been disagreeing with him about that too. :p

To be perfectly frank, one of the others in the 4 person chat is Baby Spice. Also, 4 person daychat could result in exactly the behavior pattern we're seeing. kcda suddenly started apologizing for his 'shit play' and backed the fuck off of what he was doing before. So, who told him off? Us in the thread? Maybe, but I don't think so. Baby Spice? Uh... yeah. No. So... who?

[GreyICE]

*sigh*

Always this. There are four scum teams in the game, but apparently changing your vote from someone you are pretty sure is scum to someone that is most likely scum because there's momentum towards the 'most likely' scum wagon is somehow scummy. I'd say it's a blatant false case, but oddly it's the sort of argument I most often see from townies.

Hey, PO, if there's someone you think has a 75% chance of being scum, and someone you think has a 70% chance of being scum, and there's a bandwagon forming on the 70% chance do you say "NO! I won't contribute to the lynch of someone who seems like scum to me! I'll instead let my vote be useless over here, because lynching scum is against my personal principles!"

Well, apparently that's what town does. I have to admit, fucking bull headed stupidity where you plow forward no matter how asinine is most often a town tell. But what if the town chooses not to be, well, stupid? Baby Spice and kcda have contributed jack shit to the thread. They're scummy as hell. kcda's most recent posts read like a kid with his hand stuck in the cookie jar. "Sorry mommy, it was an accident, I just slipped and the lid was loose and my hand happened to be there. I promise I won't do it again!" Baby Spice's most recent post was... garbage. I don't know what else to call it. I can easily believe Umbrage/q21 are scum AND kcda/BS are scum. Fuck, they even make a good scum team. Despite being the two largest wagons, they barely even MENTION each other. Like 'ooh, better not contribute to that other wagon, lets see if the town wants something else shiny.'

Umbrage and q21 could be really bad town. I can and will believe anything from really bad town, up to and including false claiming power roles, vote hopping, role fishing, soft claiming scum, hard claiming scum (yes, really, townie hard claim Mafia Goon), screaming at the rest of the town, sheeping while criticizing sheeping, blatant hypocrisy, and faking cop investigation results. I find it unlikely because BOTH of their play has been dramatically anti-town, because both of them have contributed jack, and because if I read the ISO of

either one

I just start thinking "scum, scum, scum..."

Kcda and Baby Spice also strike me as scummy, yes, both of them. So here we are. I support both wagons. I don't give a fucking shit if you think that's a scum tell, you'll learn better sooner or later. Hopefully sooner.

[GreyICE]

Espeonage, the days are utterly irrelevant in my opinion. I've said as much in thread. There is a no lynch if we hit deadline. What happens then? Well, night falls. Oh, it's nightless. People die. Oh, there's no scum kill. So fuck your 'half the day left' because that's fucking bullshit, and you're making up nonsense by bringing it up. Since you claim to have read me to have built a case on me, but you used that as a point, well... what the fuck? Unfortunately vast oceans of stupidity are a null tell.

I like the two wagons because I think they're fucking scum wagons. You don't like them, because as far as I can tell, you're a complete idiot who has been tunneled on me for most of today.

[GreyICE]

Okay, since Dramonic just made this mistake, the lists have become relevant again:

Lover List

12/12 claimed - semi in order claimed

EmpTyger - Thingyman
GreyICE - Antihero
Llamarble - DarlaBlueEyes
Implosion - Kise
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain
VezokPiraka - SnakePlissken
q21 - Umbrage
Maryita - Tragedy
Kcdaspot - Baby Spice
PurpleOrange - Espeonage
Haylen - Silvador
Werewolf555 - Dramonic (last... and possibly least)

List of the Useless

Post useful things to get off this list.

dramonic

Nero Cain

(See: Lover) (Still: Post Moar)

Vezok Piraka

(Lifetime achievement award)
kcdaspot
werewolf555

implosion

(replacing out)
SnakePlisskin (Team effort award)
Llamarble (Team effort award)
DarlaBlueEyes (Team effort award)
Kise (new member award) (has not posted shit since the drama)
Haylen (new member award) (QQ MOAR award)

Weird Ass Teams

kcda/BS

- I just want something that isn't scummy... anything, really...

Umbrage/q21

- can we sing the scum song? Because they're really scum

Vezok/Snake

- Combined content = virtually nothing

Llamarble/DarlaBlueEyes

- Combined content = failboat

Scumslips - did Haylen forget who her partner was in the 4 man QT and assume it to be Baby Spice when she made the statements about needing Baby Spice's opinion? I'd think BS would want it under the radar if she did, but why Haylen, just

whhhhhyyyyyy

[GreyICE]

Fucking MS, always loses my posts.

Reck's 180 on the Kise issue troubles me. I don't see how it makes sense to suddenly decide Kise must've mixed up the conversations. That would be the first explanation to come to my mind. Now though, he's voting Kcdaspot basically for just bringing the issue up again.

Esp/PO are likely town from my POV. They've put in some solid play. DBE could be scum, but I need more content to be sure.

HEY UMBRAGE, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF KCDASPOT AND HIS PARTNER BABY SPICE? THIS IS NOT A FUCKING RHETORICAL QUESTION.

[GreyICE]

Nicely timed for me being able to get back into the game and read the panicky QT messages.

Sorry if there were two other people in the QT they would have told him to either back off or play better several days ago.

as it seems others have pointed out

I fucking love this. No, seriously, I fucking love this. Did you just tell me that scum would play less scummy then town? You just fucking told me that kcdaspot has to be town because scum would know better than play that scummy!

DO NOT FUCKING PLAY WIFOM GAMES WITH ME. I WILL SHOVE ONE GOBLET DOWN YOUR THROAT AND ONE UP YOUR ASS AND WATCH YOU DIE OF THE POISON.

Don't care how many wagons you support, since as people point out there are two scum teams, you can quite legitimately support a wagon whilst being the scum I think you are. That aint no tell to me.

SO YOU JUST ACCUSED ME OF BEING SCUM SUPPORTING A SCUM WAGON? I'M SUPPORTING

YOUR

WAGON.

YOU JUST FUCKING SOFT CLAIMED SCUM.

[GreyICE]

Why were not lynching bs and kcda first makes no sense. But okay.

Unvote

Vote: q21

Posting from phone socks

[GreyICE]

Okay, back! Let me eat dinner, and I'll share amazing thoughts with you! (that aren't "Boston traffic sucks!")

[GreyICE]

You don't talk, Umbrage. You insult and refuse to acknowledge the cases we've posted. If anyone's not worth the effort, it's you.

Quoted for the motherfucking truthery.

[GreyICE]

Actually, I was in that game, and one of Ross Williams and Agar HAD to be lying - their facts were 100% opposed to each other. And both were town. And both were telling the truth.

Agar just screwed up his settings.

[GreyICE]

Shut up and go self hammer then whine about us on your Myspace page. God I fucking hate emos.

[GreyICE]

Shut up and go self hammer then whine about us on your Myspace page. God I fucking hate emos.

CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!! You just made my 'never play with again' list.

Happy birthday to me!

[GreyICE]

Now now honey, self depreciation just holds you back. Think positive and maybe someday you'll accomplish something!

[GreyICE]

Request replacement really this time.

I can't give this game my full commitment because I had a really bad scare over the past few days and its triggered a load of crap and I just can't deal with it all right now. Sorry to the mod, Sorry Silavor and sorry to the town.

I'll miss you Haylen. And so will Reck.

Hope it settles down soon.

[GreyICE]

@ GreyICE: Understand this, I keep my games separate from the rest of my MS activities, past and future. When I get pissed off, I insult people's behaviour in the game. I give them some shit, as it relates to the game. This allows me to be perfectly friendly to the same player outside the game. You made a personal attack (or so you think) based on my play. You took my play in this game and made assumptions about me based on it, then proceeded to personally attack me and my life outside of this site based on those assumptions. That crosses a line. You turned from 'bad bullshitting player' to 'vicious troll'. You let your emotions interfere with your play. You represent a kind of player I truly despise, and believe should be banned. I don't care if you bullshit your way through the game. People can play however they want. But you crossed a line, the line that keeps this being A GAME. You seem to have forgotten this is A GAME when you made that post.

If you don't see how that is a problem, just leave the site now.

Umbrage you little hypocrite, stop throwing a temper tantrum because you have a horrible need to improve your scum game.

This is a list of all the insults you've directed at us.

This is so stupid, I don't even know where to begin. Are you posting while high?

Yes. I'm in this thread, playing this game. Trying to win. You don't like it, replace out.

If the town is stupid enough to believe you, then I'll be happy to be lynched.
I don't think town is that stupid, though.
Oh wait, maybe they are:

GreyICE still fails.

Everyone in this game is a sheep.

This appears to be [Reck's] default playstyle, and it is bullshit.

This is the stupidest town I've ever encountered

So congrats. When we lynch you, not only will we rid this town of scum, we will rid the world of one of the whiniest, most complaint ridden, hypocritical, thin-skinned wastes of a player slot it's been my displeasure to share a town with. You never playing with me again until you grow a spine, grow some common sense, and learn to play well with others would be a fucking gift to me.

I don't really think anyone except maybe your scumbuddies will miss you. Secretly, I imagine they'll be relieved. Your play has been abysmal, your attitude has been abysmal, and your posts range from hypocritical to insulting, and all of them are fucking worthless. Your hypocrisy is mind-numbing, your posting is ridiculous, your opinions have no basis in our reality. Even if through some psychotic miracle you flip town, know that you - as few do - have truly earned the title scum.

Someone drop the hammer on this bitch.

[GreyICE]

Okay, I'm inclined to see how this day evolves. Antihero has his theories, and I have mine, and I'd rather see him run with his for a bit. Too many of my theories are directly contradictory, and I don't have a good direction on which are the most likely.

Antihero, not sheeping my vote to you because I'm not sure I agree with you at the moment.

[GreyICE]

NO.

Kcdaspot's play reeks of trying to coast by and get easy town points by 1) regurgitating cases and 2) doing things that appear townie and helpful but actually aren't.

I

personally

still don't disagree with anything there and voted for him yesterday. I personally am also content to let this wagon move without me, because I have some extreme curiosity about a few things at the moment, and need to ISO. If I don't see a nice long analysis from kcda on all 4 of the pairs that good ol' Umbrage mentioned, I'll happily vote him.

PO, I don't really give a fuck what you think because your expressed reasoning is terrible. Go ahead and build your case, and I'll laugh at it - any structure built on a foundation of sand is a fucking dumbass idea.

The one thing that bothers me in the post? And that means you now get to play Q&A with me?

Stupidity is not a scumtell.

See, here's the funny thing. I read kcda as inexperienced and young. But he's not at all stupid. I can read the difference, and if that's not enough, several posters in this thread have demonstrated the difference between the former and the latter. And here's the funny part. I know you well enough to know that you can read the difference too.

So why did you post that statement?

[GreyICE]

I

personally

still don't disagree with anything there and voted for him yesterday. I personally am also content to let this wagon move without me, because I have some extreme curiosity about a few things at the moment, and need to ISO. If I don't see a nice long analysis from kcda on all 4 of the pairs that good ol' Umbrage mentioned, I'll happily vote him.

This bothers me. You voted for him yesterday and "don't disagree" (read: agree) with the case, but you won't be a part of the wagon today because of "extreme curiosity"? Is there another wagon that you "don't disagree with" and would be not unwilling to join?

It's quite simple. I'm not yet sure who the best lynch is today. I'm reasonably sure that PO/Llamarble is not town--town. Both seem to show up when there's noise happeneing. With that, kcda becomes less interesting.

I also want to hear from some of the couples that we have heard jack shit from. Vezok, Werewolf/Dramonic (I'm tired of Reck's shit on Dramonic, he needs to show his cards), Kise, Silvador, etc. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times - there's scum in the lurkers, and you can find it.

I'm not ruling kcda out, he was one of my top day 1 scumreads, but this doesn't mean that I have to ignore everything that has happened in the thread since then and blindly plow forward on this wagon.

[GreyICE]

prod dodge, I'm not up to date, but I'll make an effort to read up.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Reck, gimme why he's town. I want some fucking quotes and some fucking logic.

[GreyICE]

Meta.

This is entirely how dramonic plays, and compared to his USUAL early-game play, he's actual put it a modicum of effort.

I... do not know how to respond to this...

[GreyICE]

So the logic is Dramonic can only catch scum when he's scum?

Sadly this little digression has convinced me you're both town, which probably means I haven't been so much sipping the wine as full bore guzzling it, and need a psychiatric evaluation to boot. And I will stand by it.

(Waits for Antihero to rip into me in the QT for this one)
(But it's true)

[GreyICE]

No, it makes perfect sense, scum prescience. Which makes me think that if he were scum he wouldn't do it this game of all games. So I'll circle back at some point.

Your logic, on the other hand, is so unapologetically horrid as a mixture of bad and WIFOM that it makes you townie. And now you know something that I consider one of the biggest towntells, and is nigh-impossible to fake (PO did something that looked like faking it in nearly her first post, and I've been eyeballing her ever since).

[GreyICE]

>.>

I don't know if you know this, but dramonic & I are dating in real life. That's where a lot of my ability to read him comes from.

I know that, I had to read several games to get a good handle on your writing style. You two make a cute couple.

I've read several to get a good handle on dramonic's, and I... don't have it. It continues to disturb me, so I'm going to poke from time to time. If I had to guess, he takes a nice long time thinking about his content posts and doesn't write those thoughts in them. His playful posts are totally honest, town or scum, but they're playful and not forced. He enjoys playing the game in any role.

Could be off, but that's what I read so far. Need to see more.

[GreyICE]

V/LA until sunday

Why bother announcing it, we'd never ever know.

[GreyICE]

Why are we fighting about French?

Dram is setting up a LaL case for late game.

That was the single most paranoid response I've seen to anything in this game.

[GreyICE]

Seriously guys, nothing fucking useful has happened for at least a page. I'm not overexaggerating here, the closest thing to useful was Emp poking Reckoner, and that interaction was at best dumb. Really, really dumb.

We are missing a shitton of lurkers, and activity overview tells me

it's mass fucking prod time.

I'm perfectly willing to start lynching the scummiest lurking couple at the moment, on the general theory that it's very fucking likely that the bad scum couples are lurking since they can't NK the people who suspect them.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, sorry Vezok, but there's none to give. Seriously, read the last two pages. Outside of petty squabbles, nothing is happening, because everyone is lurking.

I am absolutely, totally certain that there is AT LEAST two scum couples lurking out there who are just waiting for the wagon to land on someone townie before hopping in and going "okay folks, lets go lynch stuff, vote!" With this activity level, could be all bloody 4. And yes, I'm aware Antihero hasn't posted here for days, he hasn't said anything recently in the QT except he was getting fed up and bored of this game, and that was about a week ago.

[GreyICE]

Wanna see something that is gonna get me a minimum of one vote as 'scummy' for going after easy targets?

Activity List

Kise 2011-02-13 18:47:44 1 day 17 hours
PrayPiotr 2011-02-13 18:10:27 1 day 17 hours

Espeonage

2011-02-13 05:45:23 2 days 6 hours
Antihero 2011-02-12 23:34:34 2 days 12 hours
Tragedy 2011-02-12 18:09:36 2 days 17 hours
dramonic 2011-02-12 12:12:36 2 days 23 hours

DarlaBlueEyes

2011-02-11 20:11:36 3 days 15 hours
SensFan 2011-02-11 09:19:14 4 days 2 hours

Kcdaspot

2011-02-10 15:04:30 4 days 20 hours
q21 2011-02-10 05:17:17 5 days 6 hours
Umbrage 2011-02-09 23:09:59 5 days 12 hours
Haylen 2011-02-09 22:54:41 5 days 13 hours
SnakePlissken 2011-02-09 04:37:10 6 days 7 hours
implosion 2011-02-07 16:38:27 7 days 19 hours

Thingyman

2011-02-06 18:56:25 8 days 17 hours


Lets have us some lurker lynches. Baby Spice, we held our votes on the idea that kcdaspot would come back with some analysis so we can get some reads on his thought process.

Where is that analysis?

Where is kcdaspot? Did all three of you tell him off for making a mess of things?

[GreyICE]

lol.

How about we rename this from lovers multiball to parent/child multiball.
It feels like that a little.

I told him to go away and look at the four pairings that xReck mentioned, and to iso them one at a time.

FOUND THEM

*snip*

Yeah, sorry you guys, this was scumfailure.

Vote:kcdaspot

[GreyICE]

Baby Spice, I want to say that you're right and you're town. I really, really, do. But kcdaspot has been setting off every one of the alarm bells in my head. I want to grill Llamarble/DBE, but you SNEEZE wrong and kcda gets scum everywhere. Why was he lurk-monitoring the thread and not searching for scum among the couples? Why does he panic like he does? Why does he seem so guilty? I HAVE NO IDEA!

[GreyICE]

Hey guys just posting here to get this in my posted threads. Just want to say

I'm lover so no one CC

well I like the idea of dying with ur lover so if u kill me or my lover

we both die

do u really want a

2 deaths on ur consicence??

well going to read the thread so far. Ill post tommrow what I feel about everything.

ABOVE IS ALL SARCASTICNESS DONT BASE ME OF HOW I ACTED THERE. DONT THINK IM SCUMMY IM ALWAYS SCUMMY.

I hate people who think it's their fate to be the mislynch of the town.

Why not try... not being scummy? It's reasonably easy, you just have to examine the game, hunt scum, find em, and lynch em. It's KINDA THE POINT OF PLAYING.

[GreyICE]

Baby Spice, I want to say that you're right and you're town. I really, really, do. But kcdaspot has been setting off every one of the alarm bells in my head. I want to grill Llamarble/DBE, but you SNEEZE wrong and kcda gets scum everywhere.

You can't do both?

Given the mechanics of this game, I actually prefer not to believe it or not. Normally with NK pressure it helps for me to establish as many scum-town reads as I can, but if I'm reasonably certain kcdaspot is scum, it helps to flip him to start identifying potential buddies, etc. If he flips town, yeah, you have to start all over.

Either way, I would really, really, really like both of them to weigh in on this bandwagon, but kcda has frankly played so bloody scummily here I don't know what to say. As Baby Spice said before, if there's two other people lurking in the QT why would they have let him do this... except that suddenly that doesn't fly because it's becoming obvious kcda panics before he thinks

I'm lost. I'm unsure how I'm supposed to hunt scum if the town insists on playing Jester. Literally, the

best

defense of his actions I can think of is 'why would the scum team play that scummily' and that just hurts my head.

[GreyICE]

So if we policy lynch mist we lose VezokPiraka. On the one hand, I'm 95% they'll flip town. On the other hand, this is so so tempting.

Unvote

Maybe I will wait again. Yo, DBE/LLamarble, what are your reads?!?

[GreyICE]

You're damn right I haven't. I want to see what Darla and Llamarble say.

[GreyICE]

Argh, I'm really tired. My reads need updating. I was thinking Esporange, Kcdaspice, and to a lesser degree margedy were scummy before, but I need to catch up.

...

I miss kcdaspot's indepth analysis.

[GreyICE]

So why isn't Kcdaspot lynched yet?

Because I'm going to friggin just start screaming at y'all if the two scummiest couples in the game are town, and I don't want to actually start my inverse miller rant.

You real sure he's scum? Because there have just been no signs of help. If he is, his partners are bussing like mad.

[GreyICE]

Update: Kcdaspot is no longer being replaced.

WUT

VOTE: KCDASPOT

[GreyICE]

*GROWL*

Llamarble is still town

Wargh I hate that train. DBE is like V/LA/MIA/KIA/Whatever.

[GreyICE]

My god, I just realized I have like 1 scumread on kcdaspot. I've got a bunch of lurker reads and moron reads, but I think there's a decent chance everyone posting here is town. Except maybe Mariyta/Tragedy, I've put that one on hold for review.

[GreyICE]

Okay

GreyICE You were a replacment right?? Or did you just not talk D1??

Mariyta. I'm getting a town read from looking at ISO. She has reasons behind Votes.

Was going to check more people but

V/LA going out of town. Prolly get back on at the hotel

I swear unto god, I know she'll flip town, and if someone says the magic words I'm behind it.

Cannot believe that Baby Spice remembers the ridiculous flavor of this game, I had to check the role PMs to confirm it myself.

Something is very wrong about that.

[GreyICE]

Sens: Please rearrange Werewolf and Mist into a scumteam so we can policy lynch.

[GreyICE]

OH MY GOD THIS GAME IS STILL GOING ON?

[GreyICE]

OH MY GOD THIS GAME IS STILL GOING ON?

QFT.

@mod: When is our next deadline?

HOW DOES IT MATTER? IF WE DEADLINE NO LYNCH WE NO KILL ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC.

[GreyICE]

I'm sorry about how little I care people. I'm trying, I really am.

I endorse force replacing Werewolf. Or just leave the slot open, who cares?

Vote: KCDAspot

I'm going to work up a new approach, three lists:

Couples I absolutely will not vote for
Couples I don't wanna lynch
Couples who I'll vote for

And just move people around as I need to.

[GreyICE]

Not sure that that was a slip Kise.

Three week deadline, and we still have over a week to go on this one, means that two months might be conservative with the way we're not rushing.

GreyIce, did you forget who you were voting for?

To be perfectly honest? Yes. I thought I might have been, but I thought I might have been drunkposting at one point and I just didn't actually want to read back to check.

[GreyICE]

I've always maintained that you have to be town to have a level of logic that is best described with Salvidor Dali paintings. Scum just have no reason to work so hard to accomplish something that's so painfully wrong.

I'm going to reread kcdaspot with the knowledge that he's newb scum. He HAS to have breadcrumbed his partners somehow.

[GreyICE]

Oh wow, you guys speak loads. I could get behind a massclaim,

but I would like to see Baby Spices opinion on it first.

Oh screw it, nevermind.

First thing in the thread, it is a blatant scumslip.

[GreyICE]

She forgot who her goddamn lover was because she was in a 4 person quicktopic. That or she just Haylened our thread. Whatever.

[GreyICE]

Lover List

EmpTyger - Thingyman
GreyICE - Antihero
Llamarble - DarlaBlueEyes
Implosion - Kise
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain
VezokPiraka - SnakePlissken

q21 - Umbrage

Maryita - Tragedy

Kcdaspot - Baby Spice

PurpleOrange - Espeonage
Haylen - Silvador
Werewolf555 - Dramonic

Welp, folks, anyone have a good feeling about our friend Silvador anyway?

Vote: Silvador

He almost got lynched yesterday anyway.

[GreyICE]

And yeah, it was a neat analysis Antihero. I love it. It's playing mafia.

I just honestly think Haylen claimed her scumbuddy. It's just such a full retard explanation, but... anyone else got another explanation for that post?

[GreyICE]

I'm not! I like analysis and stuff. I was going to do a really cool one of kcda's posts to see who he was treating as special.

But then I hit Haylen's post where she claimed her scumbuddy and just stopped.

This? This ain't Mafia. It's "Where's Waldo." He's wearing a big stripy hat, unfortunately

[GreyICE]

I mean like... how do we even leave the two of them alive at this point? We have to lynch em. We have one who had a halfway decent wagon run up against them, and the other had to 'check with a dead scum' before doing something.

Like... fail? I'll tell you what: I absolutely promise to sheep your analysis on day 4. Lynch Haylen and Silvador today?

[GreyICE]

Ugh. Want some WIFOM?

Espy's poll:
Top two scumspects:
GreyIce/AntiHero.
Thingyman/Emptyger

Top two town
xReck/Nero Cain
Kise/Implosion

Two pairs you think need to pick up their post (rate or quality) but you have a town read on:
Haylen/Silvador (More a neutral read but I want to see more from Haylen)
q21 - Umbrage (Kcd and I disagree here. Actually that is probably why I have them in this list )

I'd be shocked if the partner ain't in that list. It almost always is with scum, it's like they can't help it.

GreyIce - AntiHero probably scum. If only for pushing the idea that there are three people trying to help Kcd in a scum chat. Clearly there isn't. Not sure who their partner is.

Maryita - Tragedy. "Lets lynch the lurker, but not the guy who hasn't posted in over a week" (There's more. Can't be bothered)
EmpTyger - Thingyman Definately the partners for M/T evidenced by Maryita's comment above.

Didn't DBE just V/LA like 10 minutes before your post?

Vote Mariyta

Maybe I will write up that case on them properly.

That's how scum sheep wagons, not vote for partners.

However Espeonage, I think you're right and that Nero Cain has slipped big time. It's definately a slip too because his thought processes assumed that Kcd and myself were married not lovers, nor the parent/child relationship that I've been calling it. (Two of my kids are older than Kcd btw hence my description)

Full retard sheep.


Anti: You win. I'll chalk the Haylen up to Haylen and roll. Thingyman/Emp you say?

Vote: EmpTyger

Also, the kcdaspot ISO? That way lies madness of Lovecraftian proportions.

[GreyICE]

You know what? I'm not overly fond of this wagon, but I'm just gonna do this:

[GreyICE]

Couples I ain't lynchin today

Llamarble - DarlaBlueEyes
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain
PurpleOrange - Espeonage
Werewolf555 - Dramonic (Reck, I am finding you and kicking you in the nads for making me read werewolf posts if these two flip scum, but I trust you, oddly)

I can be convinced

EmpTyger - Thingyman
Maryita - Tragedy
VezokPiraka - Mist (this is just policy basically)

Rope? Sure:

Implosion - Kise - for acts of extreme lurkery after making one terribad case day 1. Aslo Imp replacement is what we like to call fucking IoA, and junk IoA at that, along with lots of apologies that content hasn't showed. BAD DOG NO TREAT ROPE
Haylen - Silverdoor

So this is where I am at the moment.

I will SUPPORT ANY WAGON AT ALL ON THE LA

[GreyICE]

Go for it. I honestly wanna lynch Sil more.

P.S. If we flip their scumpartner, you're not the scumpartner anymore, and then you're town! That means tea and biscuits.

Well and that other annoying scum group :/

[GreyICE]

Why is bussing such a terrible strategy? Normally scum are worried about crosskills, but here all they have do do is live down to the last two, and being in good positions on wagons and pro town is a good strategy.

Also kcdaspot was a 'bus for town points' candidate.

[GreyICE]

For reference, where you bus is right around here:

Where is the said case you promised?

You know, when it becomes apparent that kcdaspot is bringing down his pair no matter what ANYONE does to stop it.

it go boom.

Hehe... I see Reck's point now. You go off to get BS' approval for some case, then don't present it or even reveal the contents, so now I have to

unvote;

wagon

vote: kcdaspot

Well I mean unless the town gets distracted.

Catch the slip in 959, people.

I think WEREWOLF thought that one was lame. Your post was so bad it got told by WEREWOLF.

And now today:

"Well obv no bus, lets lynch these two couples herp derp"

You see why you have earned your spot on the rope list.

[GreyICE]

Man Kise, you're all about finding the connections now that they're, y'know, dead.

ITT Kcdaspot has to get Baby Spice to confirm his cases so he doesn't look even scummier

Town lovers wouldn't do that
Scum lovers, however, would

I disagree, and this may be more relevant to MD than anything. In general, we wouldn't want to make our lovers "headdesk" so it may be a good idea to run ideas by them. If KCD has an outrageous idea (I haven't used or seen that word in years, wow), then that probably inspired him to go to BS first. But now, if he comes back with.. well I'll wait and see what he comes back with, first. That scene where he's apologizing to BS also goes to explain how he may feel the need to get permission from his

owner

significant other.

So you disagreed that the action was scummy and wanted to wait for the result...

Cannot believe that Baby Spice remembers the ridiculous flavor of this game, I had to check the role PMs to confirm it myself.

Something is very wrong about that.

That's what I'm getting at.

Excluding BS, I found the other pairs suspicious from the start

- slightly less after Reck whooped my ass, though focusing solely on NK-less scum appeared to be intentional rather than accidental. Esp's "IIRC" makes it seem more like he's vaguely remembering that the mafia are married, when he really should have gone back to recheck instead of winging it to memory (

like a certain someone else did

).

I'd assume that any town lover wouldn't be so attached to remembering what the story of the non-town role PMs are. I'm not really raising my eyebrow to it because, like I said, I had him as an initial suspect of mine.

And that entire bit was extraordinarily contrived. I don't want to paint this the wrong way. Those would be scummy if the two of them HADN'T flipped scum.

Thingy's only comment was to put a lonely little vote on the wagon, and then gently do NOTHING ELSE EVER AGAIN.

I am really, really worried that we're all ready to lynch Emp, you're here posting all of a sudden town towny man of the town patrol with your analysis and shit, all "oh, the partners would just

never

bus." etc. etc.

[GreyICE]

Yes, because I've never seen a decent distancing attempt in a game with daytalk or anything.

Well, whatever. I like Reck's idea better.

Vote:Silavor

I like this.

[GreyICE]

Whatever, I don't even care at this point. Babyspice was a fail of a lover who was never here, who got replaced by a lover who is still never here. There's just too many people all shouting at once, with none of them saying anything useful. If the majority of you can't even be bothered to spell my name right, what

possible

rebuttal can I hope to give? Just go ahead and lynch two lovers who were never here in the first place, so you all can move on to figuring out what lover team

actually

was pared up with kcda.

Ugh, he's almost certainly town.

Scumslips like this just never really seem to come from scum

[GreyICE]

Please stop voting for my lover. I'm in the midst of making a big-ish post and will be disappointed if it comes to lynch before then.

Man, where have I heard THAT before?

It go boom...

[GreyICE]

He didn't get a wagon run up against him? I swear I've seen more than two Silavor votes. I know he was on my scumdar just waaayyyy under kcda/bs and q21/Umbrage (who, to be fair, flipped town, but my god I really dislike what they did to this thread).

Antihero thinks he's town though, so I'd hardly say it's perfect agreement.

I don't entirely feel down with an EmpTyger lynch. Didn't at the start of the day, didn't on day 2, didn't on day 1. He's crazy, yes, but he reminds me of this player "crazy questions." ObvTown, but if you follow their reads your head will explode. And Thingyman was just too early on the kcdaspot wagon for me to be entirely happy about it, especially with the viable q21/umbrage wagon sitting right there. Do you bus your partner on day 1 with a viable town (or non-partner scum, really) wagon? I just don't see it.

Silavor... It feels like he's kinda giving up and abandoning the thread, and Charlie's "gimme a week for real content" so reads "gimme a week so the town finds something else shiny." We danced that dance once with the 'waiting for content,' and it just delayed a scum lynch.

One of the questions we had was how kcdaspot behaved this badly with a 4 man QT. One lurker/infrequent poster, one MIA, and Sila to keep the balance? That would explain it, to me.

[GreyICE]

It's shit.

If you have a lot of content, then it's not a bleeding wall, it's just a content-filled post. If it's one of those quote/chop quote/chop deals, or a post which deliberately restates itself over, and over, and over again so that no human on earth can possibly read it, it's shitty wallposting. Useful for scum to disguise their motivations, useless for town since everyone gives up after a while.

I think town will find if they bother to consolidate their thoughts into nice, sensible paragraphs that make good points, their internal logic will improve as they are forced to consider what is and isn't a good point. Plus, it'll be easier to get town/scum reads, since walls are just length>content for scum.

[GreyICE]

"It go boom"

That's so becoming my signature once this game is over. Completely.

NC: "Where is that case you promised?"
KCDA: "It go boom"

BEST CASE EVER

[GreyICE]

CAN WE GO CHOO CHOO FULL STEAM AHEAD WITH THE SILAVOR/CHARLIE LYNCH?

GreyICE, I'm gonna be really sad if you turn out to be werewolf-scum.

I'd be really fucking sad if I let my partner play like that. But I'm fucking town, so you won't have to be sorry.

I'm choo chooing for all I'm worth on the Silavor shit, but I can't lynch alone. We in agreement on EmpTyger probably being town?

[GreyICE]

I don't like his flip flopping at all. But I don't wanna lynch him.

Heh, you should see CQ when she FINALLY had the mod confirm that all of her crazy theories were wrong, she reacted similarly. People like that are at least thinking logically about the game. It's horrible logic, but a firm kick in the pants can make them reevaluate all their reads. 10x better than the Mists of the world.

Why the hell is flip-flopping scummy? If you do a thorough reread and realize half the things you thought were total nonsense, isn't it better to change your viewpoints? Emp reads more like that to me than scum changing to fit what the town thinks. I mean he's never had a real problem disagreeing with the town before, I hope he doesn't in the future, I just hope in the future he's more willing to evaluate "what if, for 0.5 seconds, I assume these two people I think are scum are town, then ask what the situation looks like then?"

I'm going to be consistent - thinking logically (even if it's terrible logic) isn't scummy, reevaluating your viewpoints when you have logical and presented reasons to do so isn't scummy. Claiming lovers with dead scum (by both team members no less) is scummy. Having a case that takes a week to make is scummy. Going 'oh the really good post was eaten by the forums, here's a terrible version that tells you nothing' is scummy.

[GreyICE]

Flip flopping wouldn't be scummy had he not been adamant about one of me/Kise being a liar for the past forty pages.

Eh, that's been a friggin tad irritating. But he's scumhunting in his view, you can't argue with that, and I hardly consider Kise cleared town.

The theory, that's for Mafia Discussion to be sure.

[GreyICE]

I DON'T CARE LYNCH HIM

[GreyICE]

NICE WAY TO FAILBOAT

Antihero, I owe you a good sheeping, despite BOTH halves of the pair claiming Baby Spice as lovers, they somehow flipped town. Tell me who I'm voting today.

[GreyICE]

Oh for fuck's sake, vezok is scum.

[GreyICE]

Reading Vezok is NEARLY impossible. The problem is that his overwhelming motive is survival. He'll happily tell you himself how rarely he gets NKed, and he tries to avoid lynches in whatever manner he can.

Once he gets a little comfortable, he starts to release these little scum and town tells that he has. That's usually one of his scum tells.

The problem is if I move him too high on the focus list he just pulls a "VEZOKPIRAKA WILL SURVIVE" bullshit dive for cover, which is really just a null tell, and then you have to lynch him because he's entirely useless.

[GreyICE]

I mean seriously, this sounds horrible that I put him as null or town just to make him comfortable, but you have no idea how hard it is to read the scummy unreadable shit.

[GreyICE]

Oh, and a fun exercise.

Emptyger "wagon" - Antihero, Charlie, Llama, GreyICE,

vezok

(nonvote),

mist

, Ashblade (nonvote)
Silavor lynch - Purple Orange, Reck, GreyICE, dramonic, Ashblade,

vezokpiraka

, Mariyta,

Mist7676

, Espeonage, EmpTyger, silavor

Sadly that's a bit towards a scum tell, but not as much as you think. He's the most wagon happy individual alive.

As for town, uh... I'm just going to post a sampling of completed games:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8&start=25
(Lived until day 5)

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... lect=13848
(Lived until day 2)

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... lect=13848
(Lived until night 4... I'm gonna guess vig)

I've been giving him credit in the hope that he's just improving (he doesn't have horrible instincts, but he's horrible as a poster), but that was just a Vezok scumtell, such as they are.

Am I certain? No. There's no claim for him to botch, sadly. But that little flutter of aggression is so Vezok scum.

Mist is utterly impenetrable to me. I'm not even sure how to begin to determine her alignment.

[GreyICE]

Vote: Kise

WHAT IS THIS?

[GreyICE]

No, mostly he plays with lurky total ignorance of everything that's happening. Engagement usually means he has a reason to be engaged, which means he's scum or he got an awesome power role.

But meta is still crap, I'm only using it here because VEZOK ISN'T POSSIBLE TO READ.

Mist... I am actually overwhelmed by a massive warm feeling in response to that buddying. And deep confusion. Very deep confusion.

[GreyICE]

I dunno. I am just deeply confused as Mist was complimenting me on everything... while I was saying her and her partner were scum. I mean scum at least usually say "well, except for that bit where you think we're scum." So do town.

I have yet to EVER have anyone respond to me accusing them of being scum with,.. wow you play good. Like... in a non-sarcastic manner.

But I promised you a sheep and here it is.

Vote: Dramonic

Reck, he's added nothing to the game at all, and YOU KNOW how bad his partner is.

[GreyICE]

Nah, it's the way you pop up when you're needed. Being absent from the thread is very different from lurking. Did you notice how kcdaspot shot up as soon as I called his name? He was reading the thread alright, he was just hoping the wagon went away.

You popped up when needed yesterday, you popped up when needed today.

Reck, I have a really, really strong town read on you, and I trust your read of your boyfriend because I've been in those sorts of relationships where you can read someone perfectly, but TRY TO UNDERSTAND how frustrating this is for those of us not taking this on total fucking faith - which is all this is here.

[GreyICE]

Hell, I'll be honest. I'm mostly just using the thread at this point. It's not like this game couldn't use the activity level.

If I'm brewing up something I might run it by Antihero, and he's doing the same from what I'm seeing, but we're mostly just disagreeing here.

Apparently we don't agree on that much, which is funny because I think he's a really good player.

That or this town is full of lurkers and it's a pain in the ass to get reads.

[GreyICE]

Pssh, I don't need fucking meta, you're town, you're telling the truth about reading him, and I utterly believe you. It's just highly irritating, and fuck, if some pressure votes get some more scumhunting and some more content, I am fucking happy.

Mariyta's play has given me no indication she's scum, at least not scum with kcdaspot. I'd say she's definitely town. Not overwhelmed by tragedy, but I don't think she's proven scum yet.

I prefer Vezok, frankly, but I owe a sheep, and a sheep I'm giving.

[GreyICE]

Works for me. I think it's fair warning that I find Werewolf unreadable on a level that beats Vezok, Mist, or almost any other poster I've encountered. I just don't know why he posts what he does.

[GreyICE]

So why Llamarble?

[GreyICE]

I meant the last, for clarification. I wouldn't have the least little reason to think EmpTyger is scum besides that defense of kcdaspot, and if we find a different kcdaspot partner, then he's back to being a town read.

I'm so fucking tired of town giving up and assuming they'll get lynched with lots of cryptic bs about how we should look at other people.

[GreyICE]

Holy thread fail.

Stop this. Lynch the poster directly above me. Did he just answer my Llamarble question? No. Normally Vezok's bandwagoning is opportunistic and terrible and a null tell, but this is rather more than the usual level of Piraka we can expect.

[GreyICE]

The basis of Tragedy's post is that the team purposely did not lynch the mafia on day 2.
If she thinks they're werewolves, they wouldn't know the day 2 lynch was on mafia, thus her arguments contradicts itself and makes 0 sense.
OR
It's a scumslip.

Reckoner, punch him for me. Right. Now.

[GreyICE]

Like seriously, good one in the upper arm. That's a lame scumslip even by this town's standards.

Tragedy explaining wouldn't hurt, but yish. We just had a townie claim Baby Spice as a lover, that was a great scumslip, and look where that got us.

[GreyICE]

Look.

Vezok lynch.

Why is he town? He's not. He still hasn't come up with a good answer to the Llamarble question, he just saw a wagon around somewhere. Not that Llama couldn't use to post a little more, but... hey.

[GreyICE]

We have a moderator?

[GreyICE]

Vezok and Mist have died. They were Pirakas

[GreyICE]

PROD SENSFAN

PROD

PROD

[GreyICE]

Gawd damn it. I was hoping to wait, but y'all had to send em to ground, didn't ya?

I don't have an xbox.

It appears I have different views on this matter than my lover.

We gotta talk this. Privately:))

unvote

in the meantime.

@Misty: Tell me in the QT what do you think about them.

MIST GTF INTO THE QUICKTOPIC SO THE SCUMTEAM CAN TALK TO YOU!

Yeah Vezok, believe it or not, I do actually sympathize with the partners they gave you. Snake the Flake wasn't great, but Mist's "goodposting" to me calling your team scum was amazing.

Also that read list? Not homegrown, and do you think it was mist's fine input that got him there?

[GreyICE]

YES

YES!

MY LIST OF VEZOKPIRAKA SCUMTELLS HAS WORKED

DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD THAT WAS TO DEVELOP? I MEAN BESIDES HIM BOTCHING HIS CLAIMS?

[GreyICE]

Original list, for reference:



Lover List
12/12 claimed - semi in order claimed
EmpTyger - Thingyman
GreyICE - Antihero
Llamarble - DarlaBlueEyes
Implosion - Kise
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain
VezokPiraka - SnakePlissken
q21 - Umbrage
Maryita - Tragedy
Kcdaspot - Baby Spice
PurpleOrange - Espeonage
Haylen - Silvador
Werewolf555 - Dramonic (last... and possibly least)


Update post below.

[GreyICE]

Lover List

EmpTyger -

?Thingyman?

GreyICE - Antihero

?Llamarble? - ?DarlaBlueEyes?

PrayPiotr

- Kise
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain
Maryita - Tragedy
PurpleOrange - Espeonage

Werewolf555

(SCUM - NO MATTER WHAT HE FLIPS) - Dramonic

DEAD

q21 - Umbrage

- Town

Kcdaspot - Baby Spice

- Mafia Lovers

Haylen/Someone? - Silvador

- Town

VezokPiraka - SnakePlissken

- Mafia Lovers

[GreyICE]

Assuming
Reckoner is town
Dramonic is town

We cannot lose. Reckoner, I am relying on my town read on you and your judgment. You better be righter than right about Dramonic, because if you claim it so, I am now prepared to lynch everyone not on that list.

I feel Llamarble is town. Just get that suspicion, so I'd rather start elsewhere. Antihero, you tell me your targets. I think this will be FUN!

[GreyICE]

I really think that our pair arguing and ignoring PO/Espy is a hysterical joke.

I'm town this game Mari. You know I have no scum meta to speak of and stole my play straight of Kitten in our last game, but am I stealing someone's play here? No.

That VP scumtell was awesome, and I could have lynched you guys yesterday if I was scum, then whipped out that VP tell. So don't gimme that "you are all scum" today. I don't trust that you're not scum, but I do trust you're logical, and PO/Espy are starting to really bug me.

[GreyICE]

Also we now have EmpTyger cleared of being kcdaspot/BS partner. Do we find him scummy for any other reason, because I still am leaning no.

[GreyICE]

Either way Mari is being nice and hypocritical while still firing off the odd scumtell today.

THEN FUCKING LYNCH ME!!! I don't want to play anymore and the chances of getting a replacement for me is nil. If you lynch me, Tragedy can come back as someone else's partner, since she doesn't have any extra information. Win-win. And it's not against my wincon to ask to be lynched. My wincon is to help the town win. Right now, Tragedy and I are huge targets because you all can't seem to understand her posts. (And Esp thinks I'm scum, but hasn't posted a legitimate case). Lynch us, then that pair won't be an issue anymore. You can move on to catching the real scum. And everyone who's bitching about my play can fuck off. Hypocrites to the max. Either lynch me or

replace me.

I'm done.

*hugs*

Sorry hun. I knew it was bad after BotW, but I don't mean to inflict pressure on you.

Just take a breather. Tragedy will play for a bit.

[GreyICE]

Llamarble is in a hyrda with me in a different game btw. And in another game I play. He's been absent from all three games for ages (hydra is basically me plus a few random thoughts of his in the QT). So that is a

null tell

Ashblade feels town. I'm feeling good here"


TOWN
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain
?Llamarble? - Ashblade! (I forgot who your partner was, sorry. You'll love him! As soon as he comes back. Smart guy)
Dramonic (Self-lover)
PrayPiotr - Kise
Maryita - Tragedy
EmpTyger - ?Thingyman?
PurpleOrange - Espeonage
SCUM

PO, I KNOW you're a good player.

Lynches I want to consider today:

Espeonage - scummy as fuck. Sorry, PO, but unfortunately you're an excellent player, and that means I'm less sure of my town read on you, and your partner is a scumbag
Tragedy - By request. I find that lynching people who ask to be lynched is usually in the town's best interests in the long run. Especially when it doesn't cost us a night kill.
Kise - I don't think Kise is proven town or whatever, Reck. So, I'm happy, happy happy with the lynch.

Point me, anti!

P.S. If we hit scum at some point, Reck, please support a Werewolf555/Dramonic lynch.

[GreyICE]

No. I'm saying your partner is really scummy.

And you're a very good player. Meaning town reads on you are less certain than town reads on mediocre players who are less capable of blitzing me.

I still prefer Kise, and have no clue why reck thinks he's town.

[GreyICE]

I'm pretty sure it's 9 to lynch Mod

Anywyas,

@Emp: I find PO to be the pretty twn one, Emp is no that different from vezok from my PoV (he IS different,but they both play rather poorly and are mislynch fodder)

Grey, keep your partner in check, he's getting progressively more awful as the day goes on. I have a townread on you, but he's really making a big effort to destroy it =S

Dramonic, you've contributed less than any of the scum we lynched except Mist. I include VezokPiraka. The fact that I trust Reckoner's read of you because I've been in that sort of relationship, and Antihero doesn't trust it doesn't mean it does not mean that he's 'being scummy by attacking you.' It means you're being scummy by contributing jack to this game. And your partner is an enormous train wreck.

I approve of Antihero's actions as long as it's getting someone I think is town to contribute more to this game and prove it.

[GreyICE]

I'm not questioning your read on dram. I'm just getting pestered in the QT nonstop about how scummy he is, and on a scale of 1-10 his contributions to this game are like... 2.

Also I have a theory that the faster any town gets rid of Werewolf555 the higher their odds of victory.

[GreyICE]

Also maybe replacements would be possible to find if this game were posted in the replacement queue.

Just sayin.

[GreyICE]

Soo...fresh set of eyes. What do you think of Kise's speedlynch proposal? Do you see it coming more from scum, or from town-who-just-didn't-think-things-through? (Or have I made a false dilemma here?)

I thought he said that he promised you wouldn't be speedlynched. It did read sarcastic though.

Frankly, I'm so happy with the idea of lynching him.

[GreyICE]

We is all playin by tells. You and your logical process :p

[GreyICE]

Vote: Kise

Like this wagon better.

[GreyICE]

Kise:

You've done nothing but tunnel PO and Espy for days, and days, and days. Your case yesterday was "Look, scum aren't bussing, PO and Espy aren't on the wagon!"

Your case today is "Look, uh, scum aren't bussing um... crap no more mafia... vote PO/Espy because of their opinions about quicklynch."

It feels like yours is a case looking for reasons.

[GreyICE]

"Nothing" is a big word to use in this situation - limited, and a misrep, as my iso can disprove that. I've been on PO and Esp since page 3 or 4. Page 1 of my iso has the info for Esp-scum. You guys got your KCD lynch.. you got your vezok lynch.. now gimme my Esp lynch.

Fine!

I'd like to note my Vezok lynch was fucking awesome and those tells were badass, and I still don't think you have a path out of this as scum.

Vote:Espeonage

Will also sanction a Mari/Tragedy vote, if only to get ANOTHER town "I give up, kill me" whine off my goddamn radar screen.

Are we gonna be 3 for 3 on town couples crying all the way to the noose rather than trying to save themselves by scumhunting (4 for 3 if saving EmpTyger was justified)? WOULDN'T SURPRISE ME.

[GreyICE]

And yes, I'm voting as the scum tells me to, and yes, I still plan to lynch him tomorrow, especially if they flip town.

It's just we have a ways to go before we sleep, and Antihero doesn't like em.

[GreyICE]

Look, I wanna kill Kise. I really, really do. And if the wagon swings back that way, I will.

Fuck this,

Unvote

Vote: Tragedy

I'm tired of town giving up. Period. Policy.

[GreyICE]

Was just scum with Mari in a different game. She plays a very fluid scum game, and I don't get the same sensation from her here. On the other hand, she's getting tired.

Tragedy feels somewhat scummy.

BTW, last player who convinced me to unvote by giving up was Baby Spice.

[GreyICE]

Also Magua in MPM gave a "fall on my sword, town can win this without me" speech, and flipped Red when I vigged him, etc.

Giving up is as often scum as it is town, especially when it's accompanied by enormous AtE.

[GreyICE]

Look, I wanna kill Kise. I really, really do. And if the wagon swings back that way, I will.

Fuck this,

Unvote

Vote: Tragedy

I'm tired of town giving up. Period. Policy.

Lemme get this straight, Grey. You think Tragedy is town. And yet, you're going to hop on Tragedy's wagon out of "policy". ON DAY FIVE!?

Yes. Why? Because I

think

Mariyta is town. We're talking, if you asked me to weigh on a scale, 1 = scum, 10 = town, a 6, 6.5.

You're like a 9.5.

And honestly, are we ever going to improve on them? Make a case on someone else, but I'll park my vote here.

[GreyICE]

Yep. We have 3 mislynches to LyLo. That means I'm okay with today's lynch being more informational. It's really more a "Won't lynch" and "don't wanna lynch without good reason" list.

Won't lynch:
Reck
Dram

Don't want to lynch:
Llamarble
Emp

So you three are my pool.

[GreyICE]

Because I still think they'll flip town. Call it gut.

And I still think you won't.

[GreyICE]

Oh noes Reck, my reads changed.

I reread EMP, and he's less scummy than I thought. And I really don't like Tragedy's recent posts. Do you?

As for Kise, Kise has always been on my shit list. He hasn't done ONE THING since he made the case against you except tunnel a completely different pair.

He's the serial tunneler.

[GreyICE]

The truth was, I really wanted Vezok to actually be lynched.
Even an idiot would notice he was on every wagon while he jumped on with his silly sheeping partner. Proving his scumminess was the best thing to do for Mariyta and I to live while those obvious scum-pairs to be dead...
I guess everyone seemed to be less concerned after those town mislynches, but the decrease in pairs...
It must have been because of the dead Mafia Pairs, I guess.
Well, Mariyta and I do have the same opinions (Sort of) on each scummy-faced people.
Meepo.

VC's? Vanilla Claims?
It's a Lover's Game.
Town Lovers, Mafia Lovers and Werewolf Lovers.
...But we killed all the Mafia Lovers..

Then hop along into the mistake~

VOTE: ESPEONAGE

Dum-dum-dee-doo.

You mean these posts? I don't normally say this, but what's to like?

As for 'buddying' you, no. I pushed you early game, I got a town read there, and I haven't lost or questioned it since the Kise blowup. If you think it's so bad, and you're 100% on Dramonic being town, lynch us the day after we hit the first scumpair. The game will be over then unless your dramonic read is bad or our Reckoner read is bad (and frankly I'm enough of a romantic to let scum win if it means the game ends with you two in it).

I like a strong town coalition because it makes it very, very easy to put the screws in scum. See MPM, mini 1105, DEFCON mafia, etc. Strong town coalitions can get a lot done.

[GreyICE]

Grey: if I am scum, is dramonic scum? And conversely, if dramonic is scum, does that make me scum?

No, because you're town, and therefore dramonic is town. The end.

[GreyICE]

Is there seriously 16 people in this game? It feels like 5 or 6.

[GreyICE]

I'd rather lynch Tragedy over Kise.

Vote: Tragedy

I'll park my vote here for now. Not voting for Kise today, and tbqh, PO's towniness weighs out Esp's lack of towniness.

Though the pain that the Esp wagon is having in actually getting pushed through is worrisome, as either that means Esp is scum and his scumbuddies are trying to stop the lynch, or he's town and scum is already on the wagon.

Reckoner... you giant hypocrite. You just FOSed me for this and then did the same thing

We ain't scum, and your read on Kise is dead wrong.

[GreyICE]

Getting townreads from me is irrelevent when I've explicably called po-esp, grey, and ashblade as the likely scum in that order. So then... guess whos left to fill those town spots? I am very comfortable with leaving the game in a reck-nero-dram-?-trag-? finale if it ever came to that. Just fucking lynch esp and if theyre town then lynch me without a fight. Seriously.

3 free lynches to LyLo.

I'd be game if the rest of the town is.

I will say this... I highly doubt scum is bussing.

[GreyICE]

If PO/Esp flips town, down with Kise.

Textbook lynch chaining

Welp...

[GreyICE]

I absolutely goddamn owe it to PZ to let him read the thread.

If nothing else because we're 1-1 on mislynches, and I'd rather him not have the score tilt back to me.

[GreyICE]

Um, seriously stupid kicked in around day 2 when activity levels hit rock bottom. We finished off the kcdaspot garbage. Haylen and Silavor both claimed to be in a quicktopic with Baby Spice at random times, and Charlie was running 100% "catch up soon" content so they kinda ran their own lynch wagon. I whipped out one of the rare VezokPiraka scumtells and we got him lynched on day 4, which got rid of the last of the mafia.

Werewolves are proving more elusive, but... well, today is starting to revolve around three couples, which has been the cue for everyone besides those couples and me and reck to go missing. GJ for proving y'all are town by showing up to take firm stances and shit, guys.

We're also in a damn nice situation. We've got three mislynches to LyLo, which is where a 13 player mini normal starts out, and we can't lose the people with the best scumhunting skills because there's no night kill.

[GreyICE]

@Grey, thanks for the highlights. The no NK part is a really interesting dynamic. Do we have PRs in this?

P.S. Don't you get tired of being town all the time?

Check out the epic fail that was Brotherhood of the Wolf, where I spontaneously selfdestructed on day 2 and the only reason I didn't get lynched then was I hammered my scumbuddy (who was a useless twit, to be fair). About the only useful thing I did was get UK mislynched posthumously. Yeah, town is much better for me

That game did slam me firmly into your category on meta though. Every single meta case that game was made against a townie, and my useless scumbuddy was riding on a "meta of lurking" (his words, not mine) and townies were actually starting to believe he was town because of it, despite the fact he was so scummy players in nearby threads voted for him.

[GreyICE]

That's funny, it actually seems like town-Zito to me.

Then again, the first game I was in I mislynched him...

[GreyICE]

If Esp is scum, Kise is not.

I'll agree to this.

[GreyICE]

You mean if we lynch PO and she flips scum, and then somehow get through PZ/Tragedy, Hiraki/EmpTyger, and Llamarble, and we're down to Me&Anti, Kise, you, and Dram? Fuck man, at that point I'd hammer myself and leave the fun of THAT LyLo up to you.

[GreyICE]

It shouldn't come down to you guys, dram. Ash/Llama, then Grey/Anti and it's GG.

Nero, I'm not sure you follow me. The arguments I'm referring to are against Ash, not Esp. Ash is the one lying about things. Esp is at least innocent from blatantly lying like Ash is.

Both are town.

You are bad at this.

Unvote

Vote: Kise

I am in favor of this lynch.

[GreyICE]

I'VE PRESENTED MY FUCKING REASONS.

HE TUNNELED YOU ON DAY 1.

HE LURKED DAYS 2-4.

NOW THE OTHER SCUM TEAM IS GONE AND HE'S ALL LIKE "I'M CAPTAIN PRO FUCKING TOWN."

WELL FUCK THAT SHIT. HE AIN'T FUCKING TOWN. PO WASN'T GETTING LYNCHED ON DAY 1, IT'S FINE FUCKING DISTANCING, AND NOW HE WANTS TO LYNCH SOMEONE NOT PO? HE'S FLAILING LIKE FUCK, AND IF YOU'RE TOO DUMBSHIT TO REALIZE THAT, THEN FUCKING GO AHEAD AND LYNCH ME.