A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[zoraster]

Put your hands down on yourself. We get nothing out of self-votes on that. It's fine if you want to do it when we're close to lynching and it's you vs. someone else, but the raise your hand function is only valuable if we're coming to a consensus as town. If the person who wins wins with 2 or 3 votes by virtue of the fact everyone wanted to be hand of the king, we won't get much information out of it, and it becomes fairly likely scum will have gotten the power.

Mostly, though, I'd prefer to leave elevating someone to the hand of the king to when I actually get some town reads and not have all this static from self-votes.

So with that:

VOTE: Locke Lamora

[zoraster]

VOTE: Shadow1psc

[zoraster]

GreyICE comes across as dumb (he seems unable to understand that just as he doesn't trust anyone else and would prefer to have the power in his hands, everyone else feels the same way), but I'm not sure about scummy at this point.

My suggestion is simply to stop raising anyone at all until things are a little more settled. By halfway through the day, we can make town reads PLUS we can make reads based on Hand raises.

One thing is for sure: the Hand should be picked by at least a large plurality. We can't let it be picked by 2 or 3 people.

[zoraster]

Yeah, I'm around. I just had two large themes start in one day. Anyway, I'm doing the valentine's thing today, but I'll get to it tomorrow afternoon/evening

[zoraster]

Okay. So I'm current. Here's what I think:

Twilight is screaming town right now.

Locke Lamora looks pretty scummy to me. He's got a bunch of scum reading lite versions. He basically questions why anyone would get a town read on DGB, but doesn't follow that up with any REAL suspicion on her. It's more like he wants to seem like an aggressive town but without actually getting involved in what that entails. He's more interested in asking questions and putting up appearances of being interested in who's scum and who's not than actually going for it. Call it gut but between this one and the next one (who I find scummy as well), I'm picking Locke as my choice.

VOTE: Locke Lamora

Kast is scummy to me, and I'm not quite sure why he hasn't garnered more attention from the mob. He spends a lot of time arguing with Benmage about whether to take out VIs or not, and ironically says that he wants to go after scum. But rather than actually DO this, he sits around content to discuss stuff about the game rather than the people in it (if that makes sense).

GreyICE, even if a bit foolish, shouldn't be our lynch today. He comes across as town to me, pretty earnest in his beliefs about what's going to help town.

DGB isn't looking great. She's put a lot of stock into her little town/scum lists with pseudo-certainty over how many people are scum and where they are without any real backing up of why that's the case. I'm not convinced she's scum yet, though.

Chesskid is more subdued than I'd expect town-chesskid, but I don't put a ton of stock in that.

Out of the other people, I haven't gotten a huge impression off of a initial read. I'll be sure to return to my thoughts when I've slept on them.

[zoraster]

Fine, Kast.

VOTE: Kast

[zoraster]

Re governor: how about raising a sensible vanilla townie read? I'm thinking chess or shadow.
It gives the scum one more PR to deal with.

...chess is dead. I assume we can't raise him.

[zoraster]

Re governor: how about raising a sensible vanilla townie read? I'm thinking chess or shadow.
It gives the scum one more PR to deal with.

...chess is dead. I assume we can't raise him.

Nevermind. I'm dumb.

[zoraster]

Didn't answer what?

[zoraster]

A thought about raising. The biggest time it would come in handy is in lylo to keep a quicklynch from occurring. But scum is unlikely to let the governor get that far. We definitely don't want it in scum's hands, but do we do ourselves a disservice by giving it to the towniest person who contributes a lot and may also be a good town power role? Maybe we're best served by giving it to a VI, hope for a scum kill or a vigilante kill right away.

Just a thought. If we KNEW we had a vigilante, this would be clearer: give it to vig bait and let him get shot.

[zoraster]

A thought about raising. The biggest time it would come in handy is in lylo to keep a quicklynch from occurring. But scum is unlikely to let the governor get that far. We definitely don't want it in scum's hands, but do we do ourselves a disservice by giving it to the towniest person who contributes a lot and may also be a good town power role? Maybe we're best served by giving it to a VI, hope for a scum kill or a vigilante kill right away.

Just a thought. If we KNEW we had a vigilante, this would be clearer: give it to vig bait and let him get shot.

Oh yeah, I claim vigilante right now! Give it to someone really scummy! I'll shoot him tonight. It'll be awesome!

Unvote

Vote:Zoraster

Or we could, y'know, give it to our lynch candidate and not ROLEFISH FOR A FUCKING VIGILANTE KTHXBAI OBVSCUM.

I wasn't asking for a damn vigilante claim. Try not to strawman.

[zoraster]

MOD

If you modded a game, and put in a post restriction role and the person PURPOSELY broke said post restriction. Would you modkill them?

If a PR was in this game and was to be broken the intent behind the post would have to be judged by the moderating team. In the event we felt a player had purposely broken a PR to gain an advantage a modkill would be considered and likely carried out.

Mod

If you passed the sentence, would you swing the sword?

[zoraster]

hey, cow.... can you do this one?

[zoraster]

Zoraster, I also would like hearing why you thought ChessKid was dead.

Got confused with another ongoing game.

---

Shadow is firmly on my scum detector. I don't see him trying to find scum at all, while trying to slip under the radar. Because nothing has changed from my initial scum reads, that makes LL, Kast and Shadow my scum reads. I'd love to see a wagon on any one of them.

[zoraster]

As far as Cow and his restriction goes my gut says he is faking it, mostly because I am having a hard time understanding what he is trying to say. I don't think the mod would cripple someone that bad for the whole game. But it's all WIFOM'y but that is easily solved by a bullet between the eyes. The best solution to it all I think.

~Sotty

I think I have an idea who cow is (or is claiming to be) and potentially why the mods would have done it that way. I'm not sure I should reveal l it at this point because I'm not sure of my guess and it might not help town to know this early, but I'd love if cow would address my previous question to him.

[zoraster]

Zoraster, y u rolefish?

Well I'm not sure I'd call it rolefishing. Name fishing maybe, although even that's a stretch. In this case, it serves a purpose: gives me some way of evaluating the post restriction.

[zoraster]

This is really bad. That charcter was outed within a page or so of Cow’s acknowledging that he has a Post Restriction. This is blatant ‘Look, I’m being Pro-Town by pretending not to out information’.

I must have missed that.

@Anyone with Zoraster meta – Is he usually this scattered / scummy in games? Having seen a few of his games I can’t exactly buy someone who runs elaborate and detailed set-ups would make mistakes like this and the whole ‘Chess is dead’ thing.

Well, I have my own meta, though obviously I don't expect you to put any great weight on it. The answer to this question is basically: No. Not always. It depends on the game. But I don't

think

there's a connection between whether I've been scatterbrained and scummy. It's happened before to my chagrin, but I don't recall being scum in those instances.

You're directing town power onto a target I'm not even sure it should go onto, you've kicked out the "KNEW" when you KNOW we have members who are inexperienced enough that they very well might be the vig and very well might bite, and you did it in a way that doesn't even make sense - we can raise and lynch a person in the same day, so why not put it on our lynch then?

Good point. Why don't we do this?

[zoraster]

Seriously, the fact that someone of you (and I'm looking at you, Twilight Sparkle) are considering that governor is a detriment to the town on D1 is ludicrous.

Is it REALLY ludicrous? Think about it. In a regular game, the governor role is given to a townie, so the town benefits from that role. But we have no way to be sure we're giving it to a townie, we can just hope.

And what does the governor power do? All it serves to do is limit the town's options to lynch. It essentially provides an unproven player with veto power. The town's power is that it has a majority of players. Giving the governor power to someone to use lets a minority decide a lynch.

My understanding is that the governor can't even stop a scum driven quick lynch. In other words, he has to nominate a person BEFORE the hammer drops.

So no. It's not ludicrous. It's smart playing.

[zoraster]

Worst case? 2v3 lylo, deadline in an hour. Votes stand at:
Scum A: Town A (has been spotty in activity), Town B
Town A: Scum B, Scum A
Not Voting: Town C (waffling)

Scum B has the governor power. Uses it at this point to protect Scum A, claiming that he OBVIOUSLY knows Town A is scum.
Result: time is running low, Town A hasn't been seen in 30 hours, no sure thing he'll be back in time for the lynch. Town B and C have to, in less than an hour, make a read on whether Scum A is earnest (very possible since he's voting Town A in the first place and, if he were town, would do the very same thing) and vote Town A OR try and vote Scum B and hope that Town A gets online in time, but if he doesn't, there's no lynch and they lose anyway.

Compare that to the situation if there's no gov: Town C makes the coinflip choice between Town A and Scum A. Much likelier win.

Of course that's worst case scenario, so it's not necessarily all that likely, but it is illustrative. More likely the governor power will just serve to frustrate town.

What's the best case scenario you envision?

[zoraster]

First, you take my worst case scenario, then address a different one. Then at the end you acknowledge you've done it. And as I described, town hasn't lost in that situation if there's no gov. You asked me for a worst case scenario, I gave you one. There are plenty of other less bad scenarios.

Second, you call the situation "good" but that's clearly just because you want to "win" this argument. It's not good, even if you can find a silver lining (in, as I mentioned, a situation different than the one I described).

Third, I think you're severely overestimating the value in getting a governor to "lock down" their reads. A governor, whether town or scum won't use their 1 shot power unless it's close to a lynch. If it is, what value is added by him avoiding it? He just says he thinks it's a bad lynch (which we could have guessed by the fact he's not on the lynch), and where are we?

Anyway, don't want to go round and round on this. Going to take a closer look at Mij.

[zoraster]

If he "just said its a bad lynch" with no previous statements that validate this viewpoint, then he's just claimed scum. Thus he would need to be posting a favorable/town-like read of the player he governors prior to the actual usage of the governor power. Thus he's been locked into a play he may not have wanted to make. That's Magua's point, and he is right.

Unraise
Raise: Magua

I like Magua-Hand.

Oh? He's already not on the lynch, presumably, so he's made a previous stand on the player (unless he's claimed he's waiting to vote for some reason) even if it's passive. It's one that will support his use of the governor power later. But whatever. I think you're wrong, but It's not worth arguing over unless some other people see the wisdom of not having a governor running around.

For the rest of you guys, the question is essentially this: In your ideal game as town would you rather have an unconfirmed governor running around or not?

@Zoraster-
It's hard to believe that you missed the repeated speculation of cow as Ilyn Payne (it's been present since at least page 6 and referenced on almost every page since).
But it's even less plausible that you "misunderstood" the fishing accusations as referencing your post about cow's name.

Maybe it's hard to believe, yet it's true. Keep in mind that cow's response was fairly enigmatic to a quick read (I was catching up on roughly 12 pages when I read through so a couple of faces to a quote didn't necessarily register). I'm not sure what you mean about the second part though.

After the Arsenal/Barcelona game, I'll post again trying to take a look at some other players I didn't notice as much in my last read as well as return to LL and Kast to see if they're worth pursuing.

[zoraster]

1) Posted townreads on Scum A
2) Posted scumreads on Town A and Town B
3) Approved of every lynch that has occurred, since he governed none of them (and at 5-way lylo in this game, that's going to include a fair number of mislynches)
4) Explained why he hasn't been nightkilled

1. Sure
2. Why are both necessary? Only needs to do Town A.
3. He just approved of it enough not to govern it. He only has a one shot power, after all, and he wants to use it where it does the most good, he thinks.
4. WIFOM. And if town is actually suspicious of this, why isn't he the one who's got the wagon on him?

Town hasn't lost in that situation. They're at a disadvantage, sure, but they haven't lost.

[zoraster]

Town hasn't lost in that situation. They're at a disadvantage, sure, but they haven't lost.

Which situation? It's unclear from your post which you mean.

If it's one-hour-to-deadline-scum-governs, town loses because they've played poorly, wasted their time, and the ability for all three town to get on and vote is low, even if Town B and C vote correctly.

If it's not one-hour-to-deadline, town is in a better situation if Scum B governs Scum A than if there was no governor.

Either way, town is in a better situation over no governor for the entire period leading up to the lylo lynch, by limiting Scum B's actions and making him accountable.

No... All that has to happen in the non-gov situation in the one-hour-left is for Town C to get on and hammer.

[zoraster]

zoraster: In no way did you mention given names. You mentioned the role of vigilante. That's a role. Fishing. Rolefishing. Try again later.

Oh dear lord. Mentioning a role isn't the same as role fishing. Here, I'll mention a few more: If there's a doctor, don't protect Nexus. Cop, investigate me. Tracker, follow chesskid3. I'm smart enough to realize that mere mention of a role is not going to make a vigilante suddenly claim. Saying that if we knew something, we could do X was to illustrate my point, which was just that we'd be well served to off the hand right away in that situation (having not thought about how we could lynch him instead which is way better). So I don't know where you're going with this. Last, quit with the smarmy attitude. You're neither town enough nor smart enough to pull it off convincingly.

Now for some reads:

Mikujin

As per LL's request, I took a look again at Mikujin. While I find his play a little frustrating, I don't see it as very scummy. I'd like him to cut the "I don't want to be hasty" crap, but I see it as probably genuine. The focus on DGB is sad because I think DGB's goofiness makes the game a lot more fun and she still makes her point, but again... it's understandable in its way. I read him as slight town.

diddin

Slightly scummy, I'll agree to that, but not a whole lot more. As an aside, it does annoy me that his posts are like 3/4ths quote. It's possible he views this as a way to seem like he's a heavy contributor without actually doing it. Lazy scum is possible.

Raivann

Raivann, upon second inspection is scummy. I feel like he's going for a sort of "hit and run" post style that keeps him under the radar yet active. Without reviewing anything, can you remember anything Raivann has said or what his positions are? No? Me neither, and I just reread his iso. Pretty reluctant to vote

Some return characters:

Locke Lamora

Scum. scum. scum. Who can read him and not come away with the impression SOMETHING is seriously off about LL? The focus on Mij is underwhelming and all too convenient for Locke. Barely has to expend any effort or attract any attention on actual reads.

Kast

Coming across as less scummy than before. I like his attention to Zdenek. Still by no means town, but there are bigger fish to fry.

VOTE: Locke Lamora

[zoraster]

Here's mentioning a vigilante:
"While this cop guilty means we have to Lynch MoI today, DGB's early defense makes her pretty much vigbait.""

Here's rolefishing:
"Just a thought. If we KNEW we had a vigilante, this would be clearer: give it to vig bait and let him get shot."

what? why is the second rolefishing? there should be no expectation that a vig is suddenly going to claim. In fact, the vig would have to be pretty dumb to claim on the basis of that alone. Quit trying to pretend like potential power roles are morons. And stop assuming I'm one for thinking that something that lame would work in outing a power role.

[zoraster]

Well. I read things once when I caught up on Monday or as they happened after that (once) and then I read selected portions again (twice).

If there was a good case against Raivann, I don't recall seeing it. I isoed you to come across your vote on Raivann, but it's not like that was gold scum hunting. You are the only person to have voted him all game, so I don't really get where you're coming from.

[zoraster]

Oh sorry. As for the other questions, why are you asking me those questions? They seem better suited for him -- or potentially someone defending him -- to answer.

[zoraster]

But fine. I left them out because it's not all that compelling. So what? He called a couple of people VTs. More compelling is his lack of scum hunting intent and attempt to slide under the radar.

[zoraster]

One of these players is scum:
Hasdgfas, zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin

Spoiler: If you're gonna give me that buffet, it's definitely Zoraster by about a dozen miles.

Page fucking 8. 14 pages ago.

Time on a vote is evidence of its correctness? Or what is your point here?

[zoraster]

GreyICE - with respect to rolefishing and zoraster's comment, what do you think of my comment about giving the governor to an investigation role?

This is a good question to pose. How do you intend to give it to an investigative role without outing one? Mine I didn't need to know who was the vig to direct him to shoot the Hand if we went the scummy hand route (though, as I mentioned, I had neglected to think of the lynch possibility). How do you give it to an investigative role?

[zoraster]

I have a pretty solid history with reading townies with accuracy.

How about weirding people out as scum?

[zoraster]

This is pretty self-centered I know.

But I'm sensing more suspicion in this game than I usually get on Day 1, like,

a lot more

.

I suppose I don't get that much suspicion in early game, probably because scum only very rarely lets me live beyond day 3, sometimes PR claims or other very aggressive players get priority over me for the NK. I'm a flash in the pan in most games. In King of Hearts (an exception to this) where the scum neglected to NK me fast enough, there was much regret afterward.

I think some of that suspicion is players legitimately not familiar with me; but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it was manufactured by scum trying to make sure I don't become Governor. I have a pretty solid history with reading townies with accuracy.

OR MAYBE YOUR PLAY HAS BEEN TOTAL AND COMPLETE

SHIT

AND YOUR RECORD OF CATCHING SCUM IS CUTE AND ALL, BUT YOU AIN'T DOING MUCH OF IT HERE.

I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AGGRESSIVE PLAY AND SHIT PLAY, AND THIS IS THE LATTER.

Across the line.

[zoraster]

OR MAYBE YOUR PLAY HAS BEEN TOTAL AND COMPLETE

SHIT

AND YOUR RECORD OF CATCHING SCUM IS CUTE AND ALL, BUT YOU AIN'T DOING MUCH OF IT HERE.

I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AGGRESSIVE PLAY AND SHIT PLAY, AND THIS IS THE LATTER.

Mod: replace me please.

Kirk out.

Don't replace out because of one douchebag, DGB. I haven't decided on your alignment yet, but the game is less fun without you.

[zoraster]

Fine, whatever.

Mod: Replace me instead of DGB. The town wants to play at this level, fine.

If everyone else has a problem but you, the problem is probably you.

[zoraster]

I'm not liking Zoraster's posts. They all seem geared towards an avoidance of scum hunting: the discussion of how the governor power could be used and the one about role-fishing.

Oh Really? That last one was posted less than 24 hours ago.

Sure I talked about the governor, but I was having a conversation about it due to questions being asked of me.

Anyway, I'm happy to lynch Raivann. In particular, I didn't like this post. Why should having a town read on someone mean they shouldn't vote for you? Doesn't make sense... it's trying to stop a wagon by buddying up.

VOTE: Raivann

[zoraster]

Yours is equally as weak, but I'm not interested in getting into another conversation on governor powers that you seem to NEED to get the last word on -- whether or not that's helpful to the town. Your question you posed is no better than mine, in fact it's one that obfuscates the issue. But sure, I'll respond to you.

Zoraster’s reaction to the little bit of questioning being supplied is interesting. Up until page 20 I would characterize his posting as mostly fluff and active lurking. Some random votes thrown down, comical not-game relevant comments to the mod and a total lack of scum-hutning.

I admit from page 3-14 I wasn't around. That wasn't really intentional lurking, but as I said I had a couple of games start at the same time and got more involved in the other while this one moved quickly at first.

Your other comments are indicative of a lazy iso-read designed entirely to make a case. In other words, you didn't put much effort into it, you read an iso with an eye to trying to make me seem scummy. I posted my reads when I had them. I posted some with jokes, but so what? This is a game I joined for fun, and I thought the joke was appropriate. Most of my posts, in fact, have been responses to your sophist arguments designed to "win" the argument rather than get at any actual truth.

The truth is this: I have posted my honest reads on the subject when I've had them. I think my scum hunting has actually been quite a bit more effective than your long-winded variety.

[zoraster]

Ooops. You're right. I got you and Magua mixed up in this case. My bad.

[zoraster]

Kast: Don't flatter yourself. You didn't remotely "pressure me" into voting LL. You didn't even apply pressure to my knowledge. LL is still scummy, but so is Raivann. I'd be happy with either's lynch.

[zoraster]

Aren't these two contradictory?

@Cow-
Great, please shoot LL or Zoraster. I'd prefer LL, but either one works.

To the best of my knowledge, LL's town meta is to patiently read other posts, ask clarifying questions, and avoid pushing any cases until he has a solid read. In this game, he's not paying much attention, he made an early almost RVS vote, then proceeded to tunnel on his first vote target.

VOTE: Zoraster

[zoraster]

I am sad that Zoraster has been on-site to post in other games, but hasn't posted here.

I am sad that every single one of Twilight Sparkle's heads have been on-site, two of the three posting in other games, but haven't posted here.

UNVOTE: diddin
VOTE: Zoraster

From most recent to least:

Post 1: The game I'm moderating
Post 2: The game I'm moderating
Post 3: The game I'm moderating
Post 4: The game I'm moderating
Post 5: A post in another game (at 21:31)
Post 6: A post in this damn game (at 21:27, less than 24 hours ago)

If you're going to pull the "oh he's active in other games" crap, at least be right. I'm busy at the moment and will post substantively when I have the time to do so -- which will come in a perfectly reasonable amount of time without your "encouragement."

[zoraster]

PS. Yes I see people's questions, I'll answer those when I have a moment.

[zoraster]

@Zd (and diddin sort of): How is that cognitive dissonance? Are you just reading me in iso again with no attempt to find out whether it makes sense in context? Because that second quote was in response to LMP that was in response to my first point. So I wasn't saying that my own case wasn't good. I was saying that BEFORE I made my post that there hadn't been a compelling case.

Given how much a stretch Zd's post is here, the fact Raivann picks up on it to try and get attention off him is even scummier than the rest of his stuff.

@People trying to say my existence on a town list is proof of my scumminess (Magna being the one I can think of right now): There were FIVE other people on the town list. Anyway, although this is a bit self-serving, I honestly think xvart was more likely to put a scummate on scum list than town.

@Magua: I don't find Magna that scummy. I find him misguided, and his posts often interminably long, but they don't seem insincere. I guess I read him as slight town.

[zoraster]

No. I find them scummy for other reasons. The "sad" is that they're online but not posting in this game, because, scum or town, their posting in this game is more useful to me than them not.

After I disproved this crap from you (by showing you exactly what my posts were), you want to continue this line? Perhaps you missed it. In which case, let me make it easier for you to read:

I WAS NOT POSTING IN OTHER GAMES

In addition, I had posted in the game less than 24 hours previous.

Regardless, Magua claims to have some other reason for thinking I'm scum. He has not detailed that reason as of yet (that I can tell), at least explicitly.

So, Magua: What are your reasons?

@DGB:

Here's a question for you: What do you think about the people on my wagon and their reasons for voting me? For the record that's:

MagnaofIllusion, DrippingoofBall, Kast, LynchMePls, Raivann, Magua, Zdenek

[zoraster]

1. Good golly. I'm not raising anyone? How dreadful.

2. I missed cow claiming payne. I think it's pretty easy to do when his only confirmation is a smiley face. I thought it might be helpful to place the claim, which was being heavily doubted, firmly in the context of the books, but clearly that was not. Anyway, assuming you're right and I was just trying to be helpful without having read the thread, do you think this makes me scummy or just inattentive?

3. Once again, how is this remotely contradictory? Pardon me for not quoting the post DIRECTLY ABOVE IT. Here, I'll help you and put it so that it makes sense to you, I'll let others decide whether this is really contradictory or whether it's just iso-bullshit:

Raivann

Raivann, upon second inspection is scummy. I feel like he's going for a sort of "hit and run" post style that keeps him under the radar yet active. Without reviewing anything, can you remember anything Raivann has said or what his positions are? No? Me neither, and I just reread his iso. Pretty reluctant to vote

@Zoraster: Upon second inspection? What do you mean by this? Also, did you notice his "we should raise a VT, specifically chess and shadow" or his responses to my questions about it? What do you make of that? Why do you think Raivann thinks those two players are VTs? Even if he thinks they are, how would he "know" they are? How would we collectively give the hand to a VT under his proposed solution? For that matter, why is making sure it goes to a VT even a good idea?

I find Zoraster's "Raivann is scum, but LOOK OVER HERE AT THIS GUY WHO HAS BEEN GETTING MORE SCUM ATTENTION, HE'S GETTING MY VOTE" really scummy. Of course I need to stay away from relational cases D1, we saw how that turned out for me in ACoK.

Well. I read things once when I caught up on Monday or as they happened after that (once) and then I read selected portions again (twice).

If there was a good case against Raivann, I don't recall seeing it. I isoed you to come across your vote on Raivann, but it's not like that was gold scum hunting. You are the only person to have voted him all game, so I don't really get where you're coming from.

4. So? I got you mixed up and that changed how I felt. I wasn't sure how until I reviewed it.
5. Awfully rich given the above, but I don't think I left out anything that would have explained the contradiction? What exactly did I leave out that would have explained it?
6. Maybe there is scum in his list. It doesn't seem unreasonable to think that there would be. But I'm not it. That's about as far as I can defend against "he was put on a town list by a scum"

---
Once again, it's pretty clear Magua is grasping at straws trying to come up with something. Six points sounds like a lot, until you realize that some are truly weak and others are just downright mischaracterizations of what actually happened.

[zoraster]

Can you explain the relevance of the bolded?

Sorry, meant xtoxm, not xvart

[zoraster]

Show me the quote where I said it was indicative of alignment. This is *especially* pertinent because Locke asked about this, and I answered, both before you posted. Did you not read post #783?

You may not have definitively said "zoraster is scum because he isn't posting," but the intent was clear. The fact that you followed up with a vote only substantiates your intent. You can't backpedal out of this one.

I'll use small words.

Zoraster is scum.
I'm sad he isn't posting.

Note the lack of a "because" linking those two sentences. Carry on.

Why say it if you weren't trying to imply something? Just to be a jerk?

Once again, it's pretty clear Magua is grasping at straws trying to come up with something. Six points sounds like a lot, until you realize that some are truly weak and others are just downright mischaracterizations of what actually happened.

So am I scum-on-your-wagon, or misguided-town-on-your-wagon?

What about the other people on your wagon?

Hard to say. I'd lean scum, but I don't really think scum would be as stupidly focused as you have been, hardly caring anything you say makes sense or is based in reality. So I guess I'm null-leaning-scum on you at the moment.

I'd still like to hear what DGB thinks of her wagon-mates, but since you asked:

[Town]------DGB----MagnaOfIllusion--Benmage-[*]-Magua---Zdenek--LynchMePls----Kast-----Raivann---[Scum]

What do YOU think of the people on this wagon, Magua?

[zoraster]

Fair enough

Raise: hasdgfas

[zoraster]

CLAIM TIME

I'm Tommen Baratheon. I become king if Joffrey dies, but I'm not ready for that responsibility. I need to have Petyr Baelish killed. If Joffrey or I die before Petyr does, I lose. If Petyr is killed (whether by getting lynched or night killed) or if Joffrey doesn't die, I win with the Lannisters.

I was told who Petyr is (Locke Lamora), but I don't know who Joffrey is. I wasn't told LL's alignment, but I can only guess the reason I'd be given this role is because he's not-Lannister and possibly to protect a Joffrey claim.

My power is this: each night I can pick one person to set up a QT to chat with for the rest of the game.

That's it. I had hoped more pressure would come on LL today, but when I realized it wouldn't, I figured I'd scum hunt today, hope LL got killed tonight, and I could use my QT to try and possibly hook up with Joff.

[zoraster]

The way i see it, there's little chance LL is town.

[zoraster]

The way i see it, there's little chance LL is town.

Who doesn't claim this in their opening post

What town player is GIVEN the identity of a non-town player.

This shit is LOLS...accept the beheading.

whatever you think about my own choices (and it was a decision not to immediately claim), the fact of the matter is I did not claim, but this is pretty easily confirmable.

LL isn't "confirmed non-town," though I'm pretty confident he is. I'm not sure if you've read the books, but Petyr's alignment there is pretty up in the air. Still, in these books he starts aligned and then jogs to self-aligned if my memory is correct.

I know this isn't exactly a pressing matter, but I think bunny's request here is weird. Bunny, do you think someone with a likely scummy role would be likely to confirm what he is? For what it's worth in the future

FOS: Bunny

[zoraster]

whatever you think about my own choices (and it was a decision not to immediately claim), the fact of the matter is I did not claim,

Oh... the mod GAVE me someone not town...That seems fair and balanced right? I guess I'll just hold on to this info...if I'm NK'd oh well.

but this is pretty easily confirmable.

Yeah with your death.

The mod gave me an identity of someone I want dead as a player, nothing more. Let's be honest here: if I came out and claimed, I had about as good a chance of being lynched as a Lyncher or scum as I did actually getting my wish. Regardless, this way day 1 wasn't a total wash. If I got LL lynched by claiming, it would be harder to make reads off it. Last, it was my hope that LL would be lynched or killed day/night 1, and I could possibly hook up with Joff, who I suspect is someone powerful given my claim. The claim itself is a little dangerous because it gives that impression and if correct gives some power to any potential scum "name cop."

So that's why I didn't claim immediately.

[zoraster]

So that's why I didn't claim immediately.

Well you die now.. So did it work?


Vig/SK wanting to look vig… Shoot here:
Danakillsu
Chesskid3
Nexus
Bunnylover

Scum team/SK that isn’t aligned with these guys shoot for cross kills:
Twilight Sparkle
Thor665

Not everyone is this dumb.

[zoraster]

@Zoraster: Is Petry not a Lannister? If Petry is, then I'm confused as to why LL wouldn't come out and say it. I'm confused =/.

I suspect not. He's Petyr Baelish. He's not family for sure, though he may be Lannister aligned.

[zoraster]

@Zoraster: Is Petry not a Lannister? If Petry is, then I'm confused as to why LL wouldn't come out and say it. I'm confused =/.

I suspect not. He's Petyr Baelish. He's not family for sure,

though he may be Lannister aligned

.

So you think the mod wants a town person to kill a town person to win?

IS THAT CORRECT.

What? No. I think he wants a town person to kill a non-town person, but I'm just saying there's room for a different explanation.

[zoraster]

i explained my reasons, benmage. so there ARE reasons, you're just refusing to acknowledge them. Disagree if you want, but i made a different decision.

[zoraster]

I'm leaving the computer... cause i'm going to loose my fucking mind if I see shadow or chesskid or bunnylover post again without voting zoraster.

IN WHAT UNIVERSE DOES THE MOD HAND OVER SCUM TO TOWN IN THEIR ROLE PMS FOR FUCK SAKES

Yes, insult people. That'll make you get your way. Just because you can't see the reason doesn't mean I have to.

I don't know why the mod gave me this, but he did. Maybe LL has some sort of super power. I have no idea. But he did, get over it.

[zoraster]

all right, all right. so that apparently didn't work. I shall now claim my actual role for giggles. Once I claimed this, I was likely lynched but more importantly it would be harder to lynch LL.

I am Oberyn Martell, Self Aligned. I want to avenge Elia's death. I win when Gregor Clegane (Locke Lamora) is lynched and I am on that lynch. If he dies by anything other than a lynch with me on it and I'm alive, then I join the Lannister cause.

That's it. That's all the power I have.

Ta-da. If you want to lynch a potential town player who has every reason to play for the town, go for it.

[zoraster]

Oh, I lose if he's alive and I die, as per the mod's clarification.

[zoraster]

sure. get an avatar.

[zoraster]

Zoraster if your self aligned that means you have the option to join the scum side and not only the town side.
Also why the hell would you even lie about your role?
Your first claim wasn't even a town claim, it was third party. This claim is the same claim except different names. Makes no sense why to lie.

@Diddin: You see, its all fine and dandy to say I am scummy and all, but are you saying my logic is wrong in lynching Raivann before Zoraster based on the situation I have posted? Not one person has come and said it is wrong or right.

And yes my vote is going on Zoraster after he response to why he/she lied. So Benmage you can stop worrying about that you aren't going to get the lynch you want, which in turn won't be a town flip so I guess I can't really complain since a townie isn't dieing.

What? That's not what self-aligned means. I don't actually have much in the way of "options." If LL is alive, i need him lynched. If he's not, I need town to win. Mostly, I need to not die.

[zoraster]

Because you're so amazing, benmage?

[zoraster]

Yes, I'm aware of that, Shadow. Why do you think I didn't claim it in the first place.

But that doesn't change much. At worst, I'm a neutral player. At best, LL dies and then I'm a town player.

[zoraster]

oh, was that hammer?

[zoraster]

@Shadow Sure. he could be. I'm not saying you need to lynch him. I don't expect that. I just hope that scum kills him, power role or not. That's the only way I win now.

[zoraster]

I lose if I die before LL does.

[zoraster]

Yeah. Best titles I've seen in a game. Terrific game. Just wish I hadn't gotten lynched so soon.