Charlie the Unicorn Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Rhinox]

5 previous american presidents
















































































/literal interpretation of my confirmation instructions because it hurts to much to think up 5 past presidents

OK fine

Bush
Clinton
Bush
Regan
Carter? yeah I think so.

[Rhinox]

What are you, the grammer police?

[Rhinox]

obv setup was obvious

[Rhinox]

heh. I knew all those years of spanish classes would pay off someday. Unfortunately, that only gets me about half of the jist of your posts, and going to Google translate every time you post isn't going to work very easily when I'm following the game on my droid, therefore

Shun: kryptinen

[Rhinox]

Game Specific Rules.

1:

Expect the Unexpected.

[Rhinox]

yes of course I'm not going to

really

push for a policy lynch of kryptinen just because of the vote restriction. But I don't believe his post restriction is a town tell, and it is annoying to have to rely on copy+paste to an outside site when browsing on a mobile, and it will negatively affect my ability to be able to read him throughout the game.

I do see where charlie was coming from though. I was mostly being fecetious when I quoted the "Expect the Unexpected" rule. I don't agree it is a town tell that I quoted it because I would have to think you're all idiots to think that maybe someone missed it so scum wouldn't want to draw attention to it. And I don't think you're ALL idiots <3

@Pulindar

Questions1. What do you think of Charlie's claim that your action seems scummy?
2. What do you think about RC saying you post 4 is probtown?

Hey I think I already addressed both of these up above

But just to be clear, 1: I see his point of view but disagree about the confirmed-town-ness of a post restriction. 2: I don't agree my comment should be seen as a town tell but unicorns <3 other unicorns so no problem with RC right now.


I'm fine with the alliance idea. I see the potential merit in it. Its a new strategy to me, and I'm willing to see how it goes.

unshun, shun Hiraki

posted a few times, has said absolutely nothing unique and relevant so far. Came closest by answering directed questions, but it looks like he's only interested in appeasing players who talk to/about him.

and he's on the alliance hitlist

[Rhinox]

I don't care how many excuses you make for your lack of content.

Nice omgus and misrep all in one.

[Rhinox]

@Hiraki:

What part of:

"I'm fine with the alliance idea. I see the potential merit in it. Its a new strategy to me, and I'm willing to see how it goes."

equals

"Rhinox merely states he's okay with the Alliance idea."

???

[Rhinox]

EWBOP2:

Also note that Rhinox merely states he's okay with the Alliance idea.

RC. IF YOUR ALLIANCE IDEA WAS A GAMBIT, LIKE I SUSPECT IT WAS, YOU BETTER FUCKING HOP ON THIS SHIT RIGHT NOW.

This tells me that Hiraki's reaction to RC's idea may be contrived - i.e. if he thinks it was a gambit, then he may have spoke negatively of the alliance idea because he thought RC was looking for players who agreed with it.

Also, if he was town who thought it was a gambit, then speaking out against the idea actually undermines the effectiveness of the gambit. This also makes it seem like Hiraki was just looking for town points in his response.

There is a dissonance between first speaking out against the gambit, and then posting the above quote - first he tries to undermine it, then he wants to use it to say HAHA YOU FELL FOR IT SCUM? I don't think so.

What part of:

"

I'm fine with the alliance idea

. I see the potential merit in it. Its a new strategy to me, and I'm willing to see how it goes."

equals

"

Rhinox

merely

states he's okay with the Alliance idea

."

???

Seems pretty close to me.

Where is the misrep?

The word you didn't make large: merely. Implies that I'm not really supporting the alliance idea, but I'm

merely

ok with the alliance

*unspoken implication* if thats what enough others want to do/because I was listed as being in the alliance

. OH LOOK post #140.

[Rhinox]

Also, if he was town who thought it was a gambit, then speaking out against the idea actually undermines the effectiveness of the gambit. This also makes it seem like Hiraki was just looking for town points in his response.

Speaking out against it was the point of RC's "gambit". If you propose something that is Anti-Town and people agree with it, then the people that agree with it have been caught by your gambit. hurr durr

No... it wasn't a gambit and there isn't anything inherantly anti-town about the alliance idea.

But assuming it was a gambit like you thought, then if a scum hears townies speaking out against something, then the scum is going to be less likely to get caught by the gambit because they are being told what the town thinks about it. Thus, you were undermining any potential benefit of the gambit. I think you are scum who thought you could nab town points by speaking out against the alliance idea because

you thought

it was a gambit, not because you are town that thinks the alliance is a bad idea.

@ Rhinox #163: I still think it's null.

I have tried scumhunting before based on the nuances of people's word choices (i.e. the addition or subtraction of a modifier such as "merely"), and believe me. It's really, REALLY hard to get anyone to believe a case like that.

I am sensing genuine townie rage from you, which is why I'm taking the time to explain this. But I also think you're wasting your time focusing on that issue.

No rage here. Also, you have it backwards. I'm not scumhunting based on word choice, I was pointing out Hiraki's implication against me was a misrep. If you think its a word choice semantic thing, than Hiraki needs to explain what he meant by the comment. Which he already did in #140, telling me that my interpretation of the addition of the word merely implied exactly what I said, and it is a misrep.

That said, the issue of "HAY YOU'RE SCUM FOR FALLING FOR THE ALLIANCE GAMBIT" is worth looking into as it's far more dubious/interesting than MerelyGate. I was very on that, and still am. It sounded more like someone (whether town or scum) who wasn't paying any attention whatsoever to context, rather than someone who was deliberately gambiting or counter-gambiting (or counter-counter-gambiting, etc.)

Maybe I'm projecting a little, but when I'm town, and I think someone is town gambitting, I stay mum on it until the gambit plays out. Hiraki didn't do that, he undermined it. The only reason Hiraki (or any other town player) had to speak out against your alliance idea if he is town is if he thought you were serious and genuinely disagreed with the idea. The fact that he assumed you were gambitting and spoke out against it anyways tells me he wasn't interested in actually catching scum by the "gambit" (why would scum do the scummy side of the gambit it townies are speaking out against it?) but rather by nabbing town points for being on what he thought was the town side of the "gambit".

@ Rhinox: What sense would it make if Hiraki spoke on behalf of the alliance and then when someone else does the same thing that screams "mafia"? What would be the correct way to speak of the alliance in your opinion, to Hiraki?

I think I addressed this above.

[Rhinox]

You don't think 5~ pages is enough for a gambit to play out? Especially when everyone comments on it?

Not only that, you just said I was scum for disagreeing with the gambit idea, even though it was pro-town. My points have finely defined that the alliance idea was scummy. Did you just choose to ignore them?

Actually, it was more like

*RC presents gambit idea*
Hiraki: OH look RC must be gambit he's so stupid to think only scum would go for the heeehehehehee
Hiraki: I know, I'll totally get town points if I say Alliances suck.
Hiraki: Alliances suck!
Rhinox: Sure I'll do the alliance
Hiraki: GOTCHA SCUM kekekeke! Go Go Gambit Reaper!
RC: not a gambit
Rhinox: why were you undermining the alliance idea if you thought it was a gambit?

I don't actually think disagreeing with the gambit is pro-town nor anti-town. Nor is agreeing with it pro-town nor anti-town.

My point was that because you thought it was a gambit all along, you assumed RC thought anyone who agreed with him would be scum and anyone who disagreed with him would be town. So regardless of what you really think about alliances, the only reason you spoke out against it was to nab some bonus town points by doing what you thought RC was looking for as a town tell, not because it actually was pro-town to shoot down the alliance proposal.


meh, this could be kinda stretchy and I could be over assuming. I'll leave this in the back of my head and look into others a little later on.

[Rhinox]

/prod avoidance post.

Sorry guys I promise I'll do better!

unvote

while I'm catching up.

[Rhinox]

I was prodded. Sorry for sucking at keeping up with this game. I'll do my best to get caught up today.

[Rhinox]

Alright, I've at least read what I've missed since my last real post. Surprisingly, not all that much has been happening. Zod and Hiraki claimed lovers, off limits lynches today. I don't want to lynch charlie. I've played with him before when he was town. His play in that game was somewhat similar to this game. In fact, his play in this game seems even more town. So, no charlie lynch today for meta reasons. No RC lynch for me either. Everyone's up in arms about the alliance idea, but I see no reason its not something he wouldn't propose as town or scum. Possibly, some of you don't like him personally, but that doesn't make him scum either.

I would love to lynch umbrage. His VT speculation seems like he's trying to out PR's by getting people to claim VT. Then I remembered everyone thinks he's a Jester. eh, maybe.

Mod, if a hypothetical Jester were lynched and achieved their wincon in one of your games, would it end the game? (if you can answer of course, I think this is one you

should

can answer)

If a third party who was not an SK achieved their wincon, they would win with the other faction. For example, if a jester got lynched on day 1 and Mafia were the surviving faction on day 5 or something, they would win together. A survivor would win with another faction aswell. For some reason I consider completing your Wincon and winning the game to be completely different things.

If a Jester lynch doesn't end the game, then I don't really care if a Jester achieves a wincon as long as I can still achieve mine.

Krypt is prob-town. I thank you guys for doing the inthread translations for me, count me in the "too lazy to translate" category. I would expect scum to take advantage of the post restriction to try to get a pass on posting more content, but krypt has been putting up a good effort.

Doom/Nacho - idk

NS - seems town based on what I can remember

Pul - idk

tans - idk

stef - idk

Yeah, lots of idks, But I'd lynch any of them or umbrage today.

vote: tans

[Rhinox]

I would love to lynch umbrage. His VT speculation seems like he's trying to out PR's by getting people to claim VT. Then I remembered everyone thinks he's a Jester. eh, maybe.

Mod, if a hypothetical Jester were lynched and achieved their wincon in one of your games, would it end the game? (if you can answer of course, I think this is one you

should

can answer)

If a Jester lynch doesn't end the game, then I don't really care if a Jester achieves a wincon as long as I can still achieve mine.

1. I don't think "everyone" thinks he's a jester. I wish you would read the game. IIRC, I am the only one who suggested/believes that idea.
2. Even if it doesn't end the game when we lynch a jester, it's still bad play to lynch a jester (from a town standpoint), because:
3. It's not about NOT LOSING the game for us, it's about WINNING the game for us. Lynching a jester means leaving scum alive. Leaving scum alive means more townies dead. A jester can do nothing. They can even help scumhunt, and THEY HAD BETTER, if they don't want to be NK'd and fail to achieve THEIR OWN wincon.

Your views on jesters are flawed. Your vote on tanstalas is sketchy at best (even though I do think tanstalas should be lynched). You need to read the game. You need to comment on things other than what sticks out most when skimming the game. The game's under 20 pages long. It's not that big a deal.

Rectify.

A jester walks into a

bar

LyLo and self-votes... oops.

An anti-town role is an anti-town role.

Also, I think you sort of have the same view as me. I'm not voting umbrage right now because its now A) the day before lylo, and B) a jester lynch is not a scum lynch. So no, my view on jesters is not flawed. If the game doesn't end with a jester lynch, than I'm fine with lynching umbrage because even though he may be possible-jester, he's also possible scum. You seem to be missing where I said I thought umbrage was scummy, not that I would be ok with an umbrage jester-only lynch.

Also, I laugh at you hypocritally telling me to read the game better when you yourself admitted in thread that you only read the last few posts before posting. Oh, I bet you thought I didn't read that part

[Rhinox]

Either he's a jester or he's scum, cause he sure as @$%# ain't no townie.

Thats... exactly what I'm saying? Thats why it would be good to lynch him today if a Jester lynch isn't game over. HE COULD BE SCUM. HE'S PROBABLY NOT TOWN. HE'S EITHER 3RD PARTY ANTI-TOWN OR SCUM, GOOD LYNCH UNLESS A JESTER LYNCH ENDS THE GAME. Why are you arguing with me about this? WE'RE SAYING THE SAME THING!

And how do you know it's the day before lylo?!!!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

?!?!?!??!?!???!?!??!?!??!!!?!!

?!?!?!?!??!?!!

... etc.

You can usually make an educated guess about how many scum are usually in games of certain sizes and predict with some level of certainty when you're in LyLo, and when its the day before if you mislynch. If a jester lynch ends the game, and a possible jester/possible scum is still alive when you think its the day before lylo, thats when you consider lynching the possible jester, because the jester will self vote and lose the game for town in lylo.

If lynching a jester doesn't end the game, and the possible jester is also possible scum, then lynch that sucker ASAP because at best you're lynching scum, and at worst, a jester acheives a wincon and a distraction to the town is gone.

The way I interpret haylen's answer is that a jester completing a wincon does not prevent us to win as town, therefore I'm fine lynching possible scum/possible jester umbrage today, but there is no wagon there. Anyone up for it?

Not sure if Rinox is voting tans or not due to the fact that he said vote not shun.

crap.

I would fix this now but I think it would be a hammer? Anyone want to switch to umbrage really fast? Otherwise I will hammer tans before deadline. er wait, now zod is gonna get lynched? I'm so confused. How many hours until deadline right now?

[Rhinox]

shun: tans

2. Any game that is in LyLo on Day 2 is improperly balanced. You have been here a lot longer than I have, you should know that.

oic...

I'm not voting umbrage right now because its

now

not A) the day before lylo, ...

typo.

We good now?

PS. I'm trying to post but getting this error. Anyone else getting this? Is this grounds for an extension?

Request Error (invalid_request)


Your request could not be processed.
This could be caused by a misconfiguration, or possibly a malformed request.

For assistance, contact your network support team.

obviously I can post now but WFT?

[Rhinox]

topic still says day 1 >.>

Since my top scum pick is dead, I'll take a look at Zod and see what all the fuss is about. I'm also interested in looking at doombunny.

[Rhinox]

RC:

I'm a Lover with Hiraki. Thing is, neither of us know the others alignment.

you're never allowed to say anything about others not reading the thread ever again.

Nacho is making a lot of good points. Specifically this:

Right.
Because there's no such thing as a treacherous lover...? And you're clearing Zodiark because "lovers aren't scum", even though you were attacking Charlie earlier because he stated that people with post restrictions were inherently town for the same reasoning you're using now...?

And this:

...scum killed Umbrage who suspected him, who is at best a possible town PR, instead of killing you and getting the two-for-one deal. Meaning they would give up TWO chances to kill the all-town lover pair to kill a claimed VT and Umbrage? Hell no. Hell no hell no hell no.

Of the lovers I still think Hiraki is more likely to be scum than Zod, but since a lynch on one kills the other I'm fine with voting either - a vote on one is also a vote on the other, essentially.

[Rhinox]

Oh hi Rhinox!

Thanks for coming back!

Now die.

no u

[Rhinox]

My Internet has been down due to all the storms in Cleveland.

Those were some nasty storms. Which suburb?

[Rhinox]

Dead game is dead.

alright Hiraki, since there is aparantly nothing better to talk about, I've decided I'll humor your theory against me.

FFS.

WHEN BOTH DEAD TOWN SUSPECT ONE PLAYER, SOMETHING IS UP.

This seems to be basically it.

So, what exactly is up about it? You think I lynched tans, and then killed umbrage, because both suspected me?

I didn't lynch tans myself. It took other votes to get tans lynched. I wasn't even the one pushing the case. It was just the only viable lynch at the end of the day I supported.

As for the nk, what about my scum partners? don't they have a say? Why would we as hypo scum kill someone who suspected me as opposed to someone who suspected one of them? Does this mean everyone else who was suspected by anyone at some point in the game is more likely to be town since the players suspecting them weren't nked? Do you think it is or isn't possible I could be getting set up?

[Rhinox]

Dead game is dead.

Rhinox has only posted at the most 6 times since the start of D2.

Aware of a problem, but not part of the solution.

Would this person be good or evil?

Hmmzorz.

In addition, your theory makes no sense because it doesn't matter because your Tans vote was already shit.

Is there a reason why you ignored 90% of my post?
I like how I try to spark up a conversation, and you completely deflect it and then say I'm part of the low activity problem. Real classy. Obv-strawman is obv.

[Rhinox]

In addition, your theory makes no sense because it doesn't matter because your Tans vote was already shit.

Concise.

So in other words the rest of

your

theory was just padding then?

[Rhinox]

What NO RC YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SCUM

[Rhinox]

Fine lets do this then.

First off, Hiraki made this "case" like 9 days ago. I ignored it then because its crap, and everyone else was ignoring it. If Hiraki was really onto something and I was worried about it like you say, do you think I would bother to start questioning his case now, when no one is talking about anything, thus pretty much making sure its going to be the center of attention, or just keep keep ignoring it and hope no one cares enough to bring it back up?

Secondly, your accusation that I have inside knowledge of the scum team(s) is crap and something I thought I didn't have to deal with outside of newb games. Something like "ZOMG HOW DO YOU KNOW YYY IS TOWN, SCUM" when the "if YYY is town" was obviously implied. In other words, just because I said partnerS plural and didn't spell out every conceiveable option for the number of scum, teams, and scum/team doesn't imply any inside knowledge about the scum team. Not to mention, and there was only 1 kill last night - is it a stretch to assume 1 scum team until proven otherwise?

Linking living players as scum partners is meh (especially when you're still considering multiple scum teams) - if you're town, you don't know for sure either one of us is scum individually. Do YOU have inside knowledge that charlie is scum and you're trying to set up my mislynch for after you're done bussing him?

I'm also wondering why you're jumping to defend Hiraki's "case" when he refuses to do it himself. Why didn't you comment on it when Hiraki first brought it up? Why wait until I start questioning it for something to talk about while the game is dead?

What do you think of Hiraki Shifting Goalposts to go from "lol tans and umbrage both suspected rhinox so rhinox is scum" to "none of that matters because rhinox's vote on tans was crap".

[Rhinox]

I'm on V/LA Hayl, love.

Still wanting to kill the lover pair.

Then why are you still voting RC?

shun: zod

<<< consider this a vote for hiraki but zod already has a vote and a lynch there fulfills the same purpose.

[Rhinox]

awesome.

[Rhinox]

I think it is a vote to lynch. Please take care.

I'm more than willing to hammer Rhinox if he has nothing to say about his lynching. Mafia smells like giving up. (I can understand, a stream of votes without any proof is not trusted. NS especially.)

Google Translate is my nemesis.

I'm not giving up, there's just nothing to say about my lynch. Its crap, and there's nothing to defend against. Its based on pure speculation and nothing I've actually done.

Look, here is Hiraki's reason for voting me 2 weeks ago:

FFS.

WHEN BOTH DEAD TOWN SUSPECT ONE PLAYER, SOMETHING IS UP.

When I question him about it, he pretty much ignores what I said. I make an effort to post and engage him in conversation, but rather than actually responging to me he just accuses me of not posting.

Read that again.

I make an effort to post

and engage him in conversation, but rather than actually responging to me

he just accuses me of not posting.

one more time.

I...post, he...accuses me of not posting.

He has no interest of determining if I am really scum, he just wants to discredit anything I say. If he was town and really thought I was scum and really believed in his case, he would defend his case, conciseness be damned.

Also, his stance shifts:

In addition, your theory makes no sense because it doesn't matter because your Tans vote was already shit.

Where was this 2 weeks ago? Its just shifting the goalposts. He knows is nk speculation theory is crap so rather than backing off or defending it, he just shifts the goalpost and says "well none of that matters because something else bluh bluh bluh".

This is the guy we should be lynching. Can anyone tell me why he's town? Anyone?


Lets talk about my tans vote since its the only thing based on what I've done. It was only ~24 hours left to deadline when I voted (voted mistakenly, instead of shunning, but thats when I made the decision to vote).

Here was the VC when I voted:

Shun Count:
Charlie: Stefunny - only 1 vote and I didn't want to lynch him anyways
Umbrage: Nobody Special - woulda lynched, but only 1 vote, and no support for lynch because he was possible jester
Reapercharlie: Charlie, Umbrage - 2 votes, but I didn't want to lynch RC
Zodiark: Pulindar, Tans, Nachomamma, Kryptinen - leading wagon, but claimed lover - gave a pass for the day
Rhinox: Hiraki - no
Hiraki:

Umbrage

- no votes at the time, coulda lynched zod to kill him if I wanted to, but claimed lover got a pass
Tans: Zodiark, Reapercharlie - only other wagon with votes, wagon with best chance of lynching scum.

So why was my vote crap, exactly? With a day to deadline, I sure as hell wasn't going to start a new wagon even if I had a better suspect in mind.

I'll also point out above, that umbrage was voting Hiraki, before he was voting RC, before ultimately switching to tans for the lynch. Why does umbrage nk point to me being scum, but not Hiraki or RC?

Compare:

Something is up with Rhinox. I can't put my finger on it, but his posts really bug my scumdar. He's more concerned with how he looks than finding scum.

to:

...

...................................

nononononononononononononononono

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE TOWN. REAPERCHARLIE AND TANSTALAS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SCUM.

STOP MAKING ME LOOK STUPID BY OUTING YOURSELF AS SCUM.

SHUN: Hiraki

I CAN SAY WITH ABOUT 90% CERTAINTY THAT THERE ARE NO VANILLAS IN THIS GAME.

SO SHUT UP BEFORE YOU OUT THE REST OF THE SCUM.

I WANT TO WORK FOR THIS WIN, NOT HAVE IT HANDED TO ME.

Which opinion does umbrage sound more sure of?

Why does the first comment mean I'm the only one who had motivation to kill umbrage?

Oh wait umrage's next quote in iso regarding Hiraki:

No.

You're scum.

Die.

Yeah, pretty damn sure umbrage suspected Hiraki a HELL of a lot more than he suspected me by that point.

Oh by the way, take a look at tan's iso. Where did he first suspect me? Oh look, it wasn't until AFTER I voted him.
Tell me, how was my motivation for lynching tans "that he suspected me" when he didn't suspect me until

AFTER I VOTED HIM?

Yeah, I think I've proven my point. Hiraki's completely full of crap.

Either vote Hiraki or Zod, but Hiraki is the scum of the 2.

[Rhinox]

Well, since the Hiraki wagon is OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO HAPPEN (although it deserves to) I will. BUT NOT BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME TO. ONLY BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

Unshun

Shun: Rhinox

3.5 hours and you decide a wagon is

obviously not going to happen?

Protip: a vote for zod is a vote for hiraki, and zod already has votes. *hint hint*

[Rhinox]

Rhinox.

Claim.

whatever.

VT
flavor name is the bluh bluh bluh.

[Rhinox]

You guys do know what this is right?

This is hiraki knowing his time is ticking down anyways due to lovers claim and just wants to take someone down with him before it happens.

[Rhinox]

You've ignored every post I've made refuting you, then you magically come up with new reasons I'm scummy because you know the points you are bringing up are shit.

fucking hypocrite.

[Rhinox]

FFS.

WHEN BOTH DEAD TOWN SUSPECT ONE PLAYER, SOMETHING IS UP.

Umbrage suspected others and tans didn't suspect me until AFTER I voted him. Therefor, crap point is crap.

Hiraki - "welp that didn't work, lets try something else - I KNOW FORGET ALL THAT YOUR TANS VOTE WAS CRAP"

No, it wasn't. It was where it needed to be with 24hrs to deadline. Best option out of available options.

So you admit, that because it was a day to deadline that you did whatever you wanted to do?

Are you going to screw around on Day 3 of the Majora's Mask at 5:59 A.M., or kill the Majora's Mask? I know what I'd do. I'd kill that motherfucker and blast him to Pluto for all I care. Giving up because there's less than a day isn't horrible, and I will admit that I didn't take the time into account, but doing whatever you want most certainly isn't townie. That's sheeping. Scummy.

Wat? could you misrep any harder? I didn't give up and I didn't sheep. I picked the best option out of realistic available options. Everyone was already in "if your vote isn't on a leading wagon you're doing it wrong" mode. I know, I coulda left my vote parked off one of the leading wagons at deadline that woulda acomplished a lot.

Wonder who did that? And its not like you were actively trying to get me lynched either. You're vote was just parked there as deadline was coming.

The above three shifts in accusation is you continuing to shift the goalposts in order to get me lynched. You don't care if you're right, you're only trying to make something stick.

You still have failed to explain why shifting goalposts is scummy.

Mastin lists this as a Towntell in his article on insane tells. In fact, he even goes on to do much more of what you say.

Please... as far as I can tell from the quotes you've provided, Mastin's argument has nothing to do with shifting goalposts. Here, read this:

Moving the goalposts, also known as raising the bar, is an informal logically fallacious argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. In other words, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt. This attempts to leave the impression that an argument had a fair hearing while actually reaching a preordained conclusion.

In otherwords, you accuse me of something (2 kills on players that suspected me), I point out its invalid, and you "move the goalposts" by changing your accusation, in order to make sure I'm still viewed as scummy.

Its a logical fallacy, and a scummy way to argue because you're not trying to determine my alignment and you don't care if your accusations are shit, you're just trying to get me lynched for whatever reason sticks.

The first one.

That's when he was sane, per se. When he wasn't acting like a Lyncher/Jester.

When it was me? Hmmzorz.

And just to check, that was Umbrage's post #41. Between 41-46, he moved his vote 3 times.

Wait, what did Umbrage flip?

Town?

Shitman. It seems that Rhinox be usin' scumtells that have applied to town in this game.

Shit man.

What the fuck are you even trying to say here?

HMM.

I WONDER IF IT WAS BECAUSE YOUR VOTE WAS SHITTY.

HMM.

LET'S TAKE A PEEK AT THAT CUTIE, SHALL WE?

Goalposts moved fucking again. Your original argument was that I voted to lynch tans BECAUSE he suspected me. I proved you wrong, but you don't care. Just find some other reason I'm scummy.

Or I could actually be a townie on the townie side.

But no, to Rhinox every single aspect of my post, including using a k to spell skummy is skummy.

lol... to you, every single aspect of everyone of my posts is scummy, apparently. But QUICK, hammer me before someone realizes that I'm just getting steamrolled.



I don't have time to answer the rest of your post now. If I'm still alive this weekend I'll think about getting to it then.

[Rhinox]

I'm totally confused. What the hell is going on?

[Rhinox]

First, the weekend of graduation and all that. Sorry for my absence.


Hiraki wrote:
Sorry Rhinox.

Seems I Was Wrong.

Please explain what you mean by this.

NS poists last few have been very strange. Jump from car to car, not many reasons, Hiraki votes and not vote for Zod, even thought Zod vote is a vote for Hiraki.

I do not think this is evidence enough to vote stefunny happened today, because there are many more candidates than lynching.

Why suddenly Nacho Hiraki and vote as a whole, again with not so much as the word WHY?

I do not think RC is a good lynching if only for the reason this game was going nowhere if we had no one to keep the game alive.

Nacho, who are still willing to lynch the love? Why? Which would seem to be more suspicious?

The movement of the NS, Nacho and Hiraki not make me want to vote for Rhinox

Flee: Zod I would vote for NS, but the deadline is too close.

[Rhinox]

if my vote counting is correct, I'm now at L-3, Zod is at L-2, RC is at L-4, and deadline is in 2 minutes

[Rhinox]

been busy all weekend. will get caught up tomorrow

[Rhinox]

Do you or do you not believe that Charlie is scum, Rhinox/NS?

If so, then throw a vote down. If not, then WHY NOT?!?!?

I've been saying all game that I don't think charlie is scum. And most of it is meta reasons - his play just feels the same as the last time I remember playing with him. Though I admit at this stage of the game meta is becoming a weaker and weaker reason.

What I really want to know is what the deal was with nacho switching from me to RC yesterday. What was the catch the made you think RC was scum / or / made you think I was town?

[Rhinox]

Which basically means it's a 4-3-1 game at the moment

ummm... theres only 7 alive right now. 4-3, 3-3-1, 4-2-1, 3-2-2 are the options, pretty much.

If I would have been lynched yesterday (or any other mislynch), given the same nk's, then the numbers would be 3-3, 2-3-1, 3-2-1, 2-2-2 - 3/4 of them are losses. So, the no-lynch wasn't the end of the world yesterday.

[Rhinox]

So, do you have anything useful to say about Nacho's rather obvious aversion to lynching you

I don't know what you're expecting to hear. If I'm really scum with nacho like you say you think I'm gonna be like "dang was it that obvious?"

I mean, it was weird. I'm waiting to hear what Nacho has to say. In his #719, he made it sound like his fake hammer gambit was successful, so either A) I reacted in a way to make him think I was town, or B) RC you said something in #718 that made him think you were scum. Then Hiraki followed along in #720 voting you and saying he was wrong about me, then saying "RC is scum. That's what happened." in #730. I didn't think it was anything in my reaction that shoulda changed Hiraki's mind - because I didn't react at all. While I had pretty much resigned myself to getting lynched after nacho voted me I never actually thought nacho had hammered me. So I'm just waiting to hear what it was that made him and hiraki have the revelation that you were scum.

and/or do you have anything to say about Stefunny?

She's pretty much been under my radar all game. I know zod had some case at the end of the day yesterday I should go back and probably read - I had this stick up my ass about Hiraki being scum aparently that I was wrongfully ignoring much of everything else that was going on at the end of the day.

[Rhinox]

hey me too

[Rhinox]

That would be counter productive.

Anyone else you'd like me to vote for?

[Rhinox]

shun: reapercharlie

lol jk

unshun

No seriously though, at this point you've got to be town since you're basically the only 1 trying today (so far). At least 3/5ths of charlie, pul, nacho, stef, and NS have got to be scum. I'm somewhere between randomly choosing between those 5 for a 60% or greater chance of being correct, sheeping your choice, or you know, actually putting some effort in and trying to figure out who's scum on my own.

[Rhinox]

-Nacho wouldn't have jumped off of *any* wagon, town OR scum, which would cause a no-lynch, if he was town. Ergo, he is scum.
-Since he is scum, he wouldn't have jumped off a townie's wagon. No mislynch is very bad for scum. Ergo, you are scum with him.

How's that hard to understand? Answer: It's not.

Except that I'm not actually scum, so...

Rinox, if you had a night kill power, and you wanted the lovers dead. Who would you have killed, Zod or Hiraki?

Thats... an odd question. Hiraki of course, but, why are you asking/why does it matter?

[Rhinox]

Prologue

Would you have wanted to kill the lover pair at all?
Because, I want to confirm my thoughts on you. We know Zod was the one killed. We probably know who did it and why. I'm confirming my thoughts.

Epilogue

This post is purely in response to rhinox

I thought hiraki was scum. If I were a vig, I'd have shot him. My vote was on Zod yesterday because killing zod = killing hiraki, and zod had votes.

[Rhinox]

Ok works for me

shun nacho

RC said so.

[Rhinox]

oops that was supposed to be a real vote but fail-posted from my phone.

nacho is posting now though so I'll hold off. #810 is a good point. RC?

[Rhinox]

RC, I get you're upset about activity and all, but nacho has a point. Explain something for me.

A) -Nacho wouldn't have jumped off of *any* wagon, town OR scum, which would cause a no-lynch, if he was town. Ergo, he is scum.

B) -

Nacho

"Any Town player" wouldn't have jumped off of *any* wagon, town OR scum, which would cause a no-lynch, if he was town. Ergo, he is scum.

C) -

Nacho

Hiraki wouldn't have jumped off of *any* wagon, town OR scum, which would cause a no-lynch, if he was town. Ergo, he is scum.


You're saying (A). Do you mean that as (B), or do you mean that as Nacho specifically.

If your statement means (B), then your logic is flawed because (C) is not true because Hiraki is town.
If your statement is only relevant to Nacho, then why only Nacho?

EXCEPT, you didn't jump off HIRAKI'S wagon to cause a no-lynch... You jumped off RHINOX'S. Therein lies the rub.

But see according to your original statement/logic, the fact that it was my wagon was irrelevant to proving nacho was scum.

[Rhinox]

RC, is nacho still scum if I'm town?

[Rhinox]

shun: RC

then.

[Rhinox]

So lets analyze what just happened here.

I put RC to L-1, and there was no hammer.


Assuming 3 scum, that means 1 of 2 things:
RC is scum, or RC is town and everyone voting RC is scum (and everyone NOT voting RC is town).


Me, nacho, and NS were voting RC. If RC is town, then the 3 of us are scum, and charlie, pulindar, and stef are all town.

Since NS just unvoted RC to vote nacho in this situation, that pretty much rules out that NS and nacho are scum together. That means either RC is confirmed scum since there was no scum hammer coming from charlie, pulindar, or stef, or either stef and/or pulindar are scum who didn't get online quick enough to hammer. If RC is town, charlie is now confirmed town for not hammering RC. I also know that I am not scum.

So in order for RC to be town, the scum team HAS to be stef, pulindar, and 1 of nacho or NS (from my POV), and I'd have to believe that stef and pulindar didnt' check the thread to hammer before NS unvoted.

From others' POVs, if RC is town then the scum is {Me, nacho, NS, (stef), (pulindar)} - can be stef or pulindar if you assume they didn't have the chance to hammer.

Or, RC is just scum.

You guys with me?

[Rhinox]

Alright so stef and pulindar both haven't posted anywhere on the site for a while so I guess its possible that one of them could be scum who weren't around to hammer town RC.

In that case, the only thing we have learned then is that IF RC is town, then charlie is for sure confirmed town.
RC, does that knowledge change your view about anything?

unshun

since RC is still in scum quickhammer range if he's town.

[Rhinox]

So in order for RC to be town, the scum team HAS to be stef, pulindar, and 1 of nacho or NS (from my POV)

OK this is going to give me stomach aches. Maybe I could buy stef is scum, but I'm not sure I could buy pulindar is scum. And knowing that I'm town, there is absolutely no way NS unvotes town RC to vote nacho if nacho is scum with NS, because I'm town, RC-hypo town is at L-1, and NS would be hoping that at any second, stef/or pulindar would show up to hammer before I unvote if I'm the only townie on the wagon.

So if I can't convince myself that both stef and pulindar are scum, along with 1 and only 1 of NS or Nacho, then RC HAS to be scum.

[Rhinox]

Just throwing this out there: in my experience, the one person who is statistically grinding the living stuffing out of a game is usually scum.

So do you think the scum could be nacho, stef, and pulindar then?

Or what do you mean by "the one person who is statistically grinding the living stuffing out of a game"?

[Rhinox]

wait how exactly am I "statistically grinding the living stuffing out of a game" by pointing out an observation about what no hammer of RC at L-1 means?

[Rhinox]

wait how exactly am I "statistically grinding the living stuffing out of a game" by pointing out an observation about what no hammer of RC at L-1 means?

It either means:

1. all of the scum are on my wagon and CAN'T hammer even if they wanted to, or

2. a) the scum not on my wagon are either *gone*, or b) looking to get town cred by

not

hammering...

(i.e. so that you could use

exactly

this argument that I'm scum)

(because you can't

disprove

the argument that Nacho and you are scum)

(in other words, you FFAAAAIIILLL at trying to deflect attention from you/Nacho)

(HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW)

1: thoughts on Me/Nacho/NS scumteam likliness then?

2a: possible - thoughts on charlie being confirmed town then given that up until today he has been your #1 scum pick and didn't hammer when you were at L-1?
2b: is retarded, considering assuming a scum team of 3, a town lynch is game over, there is no need to build town cred or set up this exact argument.

[Rhinox]

And I'm really not liking the fact that you've been whining about lack of activity for days, and now when I start talking I get the feeling you're basically kicking me and telling me to shut up.

[Rhinox]

SO IF WE'RE AT MYLO RIGHT NOW, THEN WHY ARE YOU IGNORING MY POINTS ABOUT NACHO????

OH YEAH. BECAUSE HE'S YOUR SCUMBUDDY.

I'm not ignoring your points about nacho, but everytime I ask you about them, you just reiterate that I'm scum with nacho, and I'm not going to give a lot of thought to a case that involves anyone being scum with me, because I'm not scum.

And its more likely LyLo, not MyLo, and thats irrelevant to why I would or would not be ignoring your points about nacho. Knowing that I'm town, if you're also town, then both stef and pulindar ARE scum 100% in addition to 1 of either nacho or NS. I'm not going to vote for a maybe-scum at this point over a for-sure-scum. At this point, my vote has to be either for stef or pulindar if I think you're town, or you if I think you're scum.

[Rhinox]

Well, knowing I am town, and assuming 3 scum, yesterday was technically mylo - meaning, if I was lynched yesterday, the game would be over right now, because there would be 3 scum and 3 town remaining. So, nacho is scum because he caused a no lynch according to you, but from where I'm sitting, no lynch >>> mislynch and game over. nacho scum would know I am town, and by causing a no-lynch instead of a mislynch effectively makes it a move against his wincon.

So, as far as I can see, the only reason nacho is scum is because he caused a no-lynch, but in my position, knowing the alternative was a mislynch, the no-lynch had a much more pro-town result in this context. So I just don't see nacho being scum based solely on the blanket fact that he caused a no-lynch knowing that the alternative was my mislynch and the chance for the scum to have won the game by now.


So, to reaffirm what I said before, at this point, it would be antitown for my vote to go on anyone other than stef, pulindar, or you today. If you are town, both stef and pulindar are scum, 100%, while nacho/ns are only scum with a probability of 50%. If you are scum, well then you get my vote.

This is because a) if you are town, charlie is town for sure due to posting but not hammering, and b) if you are town nacho and ns are not both scum together otherwise no way ns unvotes you to vote nacho when you're L-1 and the 3rd scum has the potential to hammer any second for the scum win, knowing that since I am town the 3rd scum would have to be either stef or pulindar.

(which basically means you have inside info about the scum team size(s), ha ha ha lolscum)

Don't be an idiot, at this point its all but certain we're dealing with a 3 member scum team.

[Rhinox]

Opinion:
Reaper: Nacho (or anyone really) would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.
Nacho: Hey, Hiraki left the wagon to follow me, and he was town. Therefore I am town.
Rhinox: If Nacho would have lynched me, we'd have blown MYLO. Because I am town.

You're off-track on all 3 of these.

How can you hold your opinion true since Hiraki jumped off the same wagon and wasn't scum?
Nacho is not arguing he's town, he's arguing your scum-tell is not valid.
Regardless of the situation yesterday, I have a big problem using the fact the nacho caused a no-lynch instead of mislynch as a scum-tell.

Let me ask you this: what makes nacho jumping off my wagon yesterday scummy?

The only thing you have used to try to find scum so far are 1. going after lurkers, and 2. PoE based on self-knowledge. i.e. WHAT SCUM DO.

I haven't gone after lurkers. To be going after lurkers I'd have to be trying to get someone lynched specifically because they're lurking. THAT'S the tell. Just because I've identified someone who has to be scum (if some other conditions are met) and they happen to be lurking/inactive doesn't mean I'm committing the "going after lurkers" tell. If you refuse to see the difference, you're either scum, or an idiot.

Also, town uses self-knowledge all the time. In what world is that a scum tell? I recently singlehandedly lost a game for town because I was in a lylo situation with 2 scum alive and didn't realize that a certain string of events that happened proved that another player was scum with 100% certainty from my POV. I got chastised pretty hard post game by other town players for not realizing that. So again, now you're either scum making up tells, or an idiot.

Another thing you seem loath to discuss is the fact that there were three deaths last night. i.e. at LEAST two kills, with one of them causing another lover to suicide. So what do you think it is? A vigilante? A serial killer? Two scum groups of two? I admit, I am heavily leaning towards the last option at this point, because for the life of me, I cannot connect a third buddy to you and Nacho.

How come you haven't mentioned this, either?

Wow "loathe to discuss", eh? Thats what I'm doing? nevermind...

2 scum groups of 2 isn't likely IMO because there have not been cross kills. There was also only 1 kill N1. That rules out an SK as well. Also, no lynches and game lethargy don't happen when there are 2 scum groups - each scum group wants to get the other lynched. I had originally assumed that krypt was the scumkill and a 1-shot vig took out zod/hiraki.

Regardless, 3 scum makes today lylo, and the other options (2+2, 3+1) means we're pretty much screwed even if we lynch scum today without some crosskill magic helping us out, so yeah. We should probably have massclaimed by now today actually.

[Rhinox]

A sophisticated combination of having played with Nacho before, gut, common sense, and the obvious fact that Hiraki was town.

...

Reaper: Nacho (or anyone really) would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

Reaper: anyone would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

Reaper: Hiraki would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

obvious fact that Hiraki was town.

Reaper: anyone would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

Reaper: Hiraki would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

obvious fact that Hiraki was town.

Reaper: anyone would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

Reaper: Hiraki would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

obvious fact that Hiraki was town.

Reaper: anyone would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

Reaper: Hiraki would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

obvious fact that Hiraki was town.

Reaper: anyone would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

Reaper: Hiraki would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

obvious fact that Hiraki was town.

Reaper: anyone would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

Reaper: Hiraki would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

obvious fact that Hiraki was town.

Reaper: anyone would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

Reaper: Hiraki would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

obvious fact that Hiraki was town.

Reaper: anyone would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

Reaper: Hiraki would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

obvious fact that Hiraki was town.

Reaper: anyone would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

Reaper: Hiraki would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

obvious fact that Hiraki was town.

Reaper: anyone would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

Reaper: Hiraki would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

obvious fact that Hiraki was town.

Reaper: anyone would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

Reaper: Hiraki would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

obvious fact that Hiraki was town.

Reaper: anyone would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

Reaper: Hiraki would only hop off a wagon at deadline as scum.

obvious fact that Hiraki was town.

for fucks sake...

FACE.

PALM.

No-lynching on Day 2 is 100% undesirable for town. All it does is inject WIFOM, and we get no info from flips.
No-lynching on Day 2 is 100% undesirable for scum, if the lynch would otherwise be a townie.
No-lynching on Day 2 is 100% DESIRABLE for scum, if a mislynch cannot be had, and a scumbuddy would otherwise die.

ERGO.

NACHO IS SCUM.

YOU ARE HIS BUDDY.

Well then you're logic is broken, because whether you believe it or not, I'm town. One of those 3 statements of truth is obviously false, and you being unwilling to even consider your logic as possibly being wrong makes you either an idiot or scum.

Rhinox wrote:
Nacho is not arguing he's town, he's arguing your scum-tell is not valid.

Same difference.

No its not. Arguing that an invalid scumtell is null is not the same as arguing that something that is null is a town tell.

Rhinox wrote:
RC wrote:
The only thing you have used to try to find scum so far are 1. going after lurkers, and 2. PoE based on self-knowledge. i.e. WHAT SCUM DO.

I haven't gone after lurkers. To be going after lurkers I'd have to be trying to get someone lynched specifically because they're lurking. THAT'S the tell. Just because I've identified someone who has to be scum (if some other conditions are met) and they happen to be lurking/inactive doesn't mean I'm committing the "going after lurkers" tell. If you refuse to see the difference, you're either scum, or an idiot.

......

SAME DIFFERENCE.

No its not....

What I'm SAYING, is that there's no possible way that YOU are gonna convince ME that you're town, and by extension there's no possible way that YOU can convince ME that Stefunny and Pulindar are scum.

What I'm SAYING, is that there's no possible way that YOU are gonna convince ME that I am scum, and by extension there's no possible way that YOU can convince ME that nacho is scum because I'm scum.

Maybe it is only happy coincidence that the two people you're 100% sure are scum are also the two people that are 100% lurking. I don't know.

Its fucking logic.

You were at L-1. If you are town, charlie is town for not hammering. I know that me, nacho, and ns, are not the scum team, because I'm town. I know that nacho and ns can not be scum together if you're town, because there's no way NS unvotes a townie at L-1 when there is a scum not on the wagon who can hammer for the scum win.

Therefore, if RC is town, the scum HAVE to be stef (100%), pulindar (100%), and 1 of either nacho or NS.

FROM MY POV, BASED ON THE KNOWLEDGE OF MY ROLE, WHICH IS NOT INVALID FOR ME TO ACT ON. THE POSITION I AM IN, IT IS NOT OPTIMAL TO VOTE FOR ANYONE OTHER THAN STEF OR PULINDAR IF I THINK RC IS TOWN, OR RC IF I THINK RC IS SCUM.

[Rhinox]

shun: RC

[Rhinox]

cool story bro

[Rhinox]

not right now. Either RC is scum, or the scum team is stef, pulindar, and either you or nacho. In order for nacho to be scum, RC and you both have to be town. Right now, RC isn't acting like a townie. Even if he was, if I was sure RC was town, stef and pulindar are better lynch choices because that would make them scum with 100% certainty.

If there is no posting by stef or pulindar, or replacements, by thursday night/friday morning, I'd vote nacho then - nacho lynch > no lynch.

[Rhinox]

Given pulindar just voted stef, there's literally no way RC can be town.

Logic puzzle if RC is town:
a) I am town
b) Charlie is town via not hammering
c) NS is not scum with nacho due to NS unvoting RC to vote nacho rather than waiting for a scum partner to log on and hammer RC
at this point, in order for RC to be town, scum team needs to be stef, pul, and 1 of either NS or nacho
d) Puindar is (probably) not scum with stef due to voting stef just now rather than waiting for stef or a replacement to come around for a 1-2 scum quickhammering on RC

Conclusion: assuming we're dealing with a 3-member scum team, RC can not be town because all but 2 players are eliminated as possible scum. This is what I know from my POV because I know my alignment is confirmed to me.


I encourage others to look at the situation logically from their own POV. For example, from pul's POV, in order for RC to be scum:

a)pul knows he is town.
b)pul knows charlie is town for not hammering RC
at this point, rhinox, nacho, and NS are still voting RC
c)NS unvotes RC to vote nacho - either Rhinox/nacho/NS are the scum team and NS unvoted so as to not be obvious, or Nacho is scum and NS is town, making stef the 3rd scum.

So from pul's POV, if RC is town, the 2 possible scum teams are 1: {Rhinox, nacho, NS} and {Rhinox, nacho, stef}
This means that Pul, if you think RC is town, you should be voting me or nacho because we both have to be scum, and if you think me or nacho is Town, then RC has to be scum beyond a doubt because there is no possible scum team that doesn't include me and nacho if RC is town. If you're town, you need to be deciding to vote between me and nacho, or RC because 1 of us logically has to be scum due to the events that unfolded today.

etc etc.

work out the logics, stef's POV will look very similar to puls: If RC is town, I and nacho have to be scum, otherwise RC is scum
charlies POV: if RC is town, possible scum teams are {Me, nacho, ns}, or {Me, nacho, stef/pul} - again, either Rhinox and nacho, or RC are scum.

Nacho's POV:
he's town, charlie is town. Possible scum: rhinox, ns, stef, pul
then ns unvotes RC from L-1. If NS and Rhinox are scum, that means either stef or pul have to be scum and NS unvoting takes away the opportunity for one of them to hammer for the win. That means, NS is not scum from nacho's POV.
At this point, if RC is town, only possible scum team is {Rhinox, stef, pulindar}
Pulindar just voted stef, he's probably not scum with stef.
That means from nacho's POV, RC is confirmed scum because there are no probable scum teams of 3 left. Nacho should be voting RC, and he is.

NS's POV:
he's town, charlie is town.
Possible scums: Rhinox, nacho, stef, pul
Can't really get it down more than that. If RC is town, then 3 out of the 4 of us are scum.

RC's POV:
He's town, charlies town.
Possible scum groups once you work out NS's unvote are {rhinox, nacho, NS} or 3 of {rhinox, nacho, stef, pulindar}


TL:DR) RC is confirmed scum from mine and nacho's POV, pul, stef, and charlie need to decide whether they think RC is scum or not - if they think RC is scum, he's the lynch obv, if they think RC is town, then me and nacho BOTH have to be scum.

[Rhinox]

unshun: shun stef

based on pulindar's last post. that should be 3 votes on stef or L-1.

[Rhinox]

So the best I am able to calculate, it is right now 2:36 PM BST. That means 6 hrs 24 min to deadline.

[Rhinox]

Hey mister "I'm not reading the thread": (pssst thats you RC)

role claim:

I am kidney

I had a one shot ability to detect one of the two scummy unicorn.

Useable only after Charlie was dead.

Only two people to my knowledge really addressed the unicorn issue, RC and Stef. Stef is the only one who admitted they were scum, RC said that they might be masons.

I used my one shot ability on Nacho Night two.

I expected him dead before that if he was town because I believed him to be so solidly town. I hate when I have a wrong read like that and just accept it. Anyway, that was my choice.

He is not one of the two unicorns. Thus he is either third party or town or second scum group.

I think he is town. Which brings me to Charlie. I felt from Charlie's post and my own observations that Charlie thinks Nacho pushed for the Zod NK. He also could have wanted the umbrage NK.

Unless you are accusing Pulindar of lying, in which case you should be voting him, Nacho is not scum ergo I am not his scum partner.

So unless pulindar is pulling some massive gambit, scum team is RC + NS.

[Rhinox]

Yeah except for the fact that NS just flipped town.

LOLscum

right. freudian slip. meant to type charlie, but was staring at a big green NOBODY SPECIAL. How does that make me scum?

So, you have nothing to say about pulindar's investigation result?

[Rhinox]

Shun: Nacho

Guys, I'm very sure about this. Please, follow suit.

So explain pulindar's innocent result on nacho then?

[Rhinox]

Well it can't be me/nacho, unless pul comes in here and says it was a gambit.

assuming he doesn't, either

a) pul is lying, in which case he should be getting the votes, or

b) pul is telling the truth, in which case I don't really care what you do because that means you and charlie are scum.


Why are you ruling out pul/nacho?

[Rhinox]

EBWOP:
(aside from the fact that if pul/nacho don't show up and 1-2 hammer me, then it will be confirmed they are not the scum team)

(also, with charlie voting nacho, if its me/pul, we could 1-2 hammer for the win right now as well)

lol because you 2 voted how you are today you're pretty much confirming yourselves as scum by POE.

[Rhinox]

And what I'm saying is, I'm so confident I'm right, I want you 2 to both leave your votes where they are right now like good little scum until everyone posts, and nobody 1-2 hammers, and that will prove that you are both scum.

Neither of you have a problem with that, right? since you both think you're voting scum, of course.

(LOL)

[Rhinox]

So you think I'm scum, but you're not worried at all that I'm just sitting here waiting for pul to get and vote nacho so I can hammer? Or are you just that sure that pul is going to recant his investigation claim?

Lol you do realize that as long as the votes remain how they are, once pul reaffirms his claim and there is no 1-2 hammer on anyone, the only possible scum team remaining are the 2 players voting right?

[Rhinox]

It is time for massclaim.

Give me 3 hours, I'll prove that the 2 mafia are Nacho & Rhinox.

Hi Nacho.

LOL

First prove pulindar is lying.

Then explain why he's not scum for lying.

You and RC dun messed up LOL

[Rhinox]

and there it is. everyone posted and was online before charlie unvoted.

Pul, it HAS to be RC and charlie. Look at what just happened.

If it was me and RC, we would have hammered nacho hours ago for the win.
Could be you and nacho, but you're not hammering me right now, so thats out.
Its not me and you, we'd have just hammered nacho before charlie unvoted.
Its not you and RC, you'd have just hammered nacho before charlie unvoted.
Its not you and charlie, you'd be hammering me right now.

I suppose me/charlie is not logically eliminated yet. Thats the only hole in my logic, if you want to call it that. If you want answers to your questions I'll give them to you, but its not really necessary due to charlie and RC splitting their votes, and no scum 1-2 hammer coming in. Logically, there are only 2 possible scum pairings. Charlie is scum either way. RC is the other.

[Rhinox]

And now you're completely going back on what you said yesterday, when you said:
<snip>
Maybe you shouldn't have proved Charlie as town to EVERYONE yesterday.

No longer relevant - was based on there being a scum team of 3 and yesterday being lylo, which is clearly not the case. Even still, that was only the "if RC is town" situation, which is also clearly not the case. Nice try though.

your #941 is irrelevant now because of this, which means charlie is getting lynched today once pul is satisfied I'm not trying to pull a fast one on him or something. Save your rhetoric for tomorrow when you're trying to get nacho or pul to lynch me instead of you.

------------------------------------------

Rhinox, you've presented a logic puzzle totally ignoring my claim and I'm not happy with that.

Your claim is irrelevant to the logic facts, but I'll bite.

How can I be scum with nacho given pul's result?

If pul is who he says he is, that means nacho is town - explain how nacho didn't get 2 scum votes piled on for the scum win if you're town?

me/RC, me/pul, RC/pul - all could have hammered nacho after you voted. nacho/pul - could have hammered me. All the other possible scum teams remaining (charlie/pul, charlie/RC, charlie/me) include you. Only charlie/pul is not possible because you both could have hammered me. So charlie/RC is possible, as is charlie/me, since neither pairing is eliminated due to having an opportunity to hammer a townie for the win.

So unless you can explain any reasonable way the logic is flawed, completely unbiased logic says you have to be scum, meaning your claim is a fabricated lie.

My vote will be going on you as soon as pul and nacho are satisfied.

-------------------------------------------------------------

@Zod: you're dead. why are you posting here?

[Rhinox]

I dare you to say I'm scum for stalling my claim.

[Rhinox]

Rhinox, your situation applies if the Mafia are well coordinated. I've some experience in a newbie game where the Mafia took days to organize a quickhammer. Besides, it's a risky move and one Mafia would have to think twice before taking.

I want a massclaim. Please?

Go ahead and massclaim, get full claims, whatever, who am I to stop you.

So, (humoring you) uncoordinated scum might invalidate some of the logic, but doesn't explain pul's result, or why you would vote him today given pul's claim yesterday. If nacho is to be scum, you must think he's scum with pul, but earlier you said you were going to prove the scum is me and nacho. That is impossible with pul's result. So, what can you come up with to explain that?

[Rhinox]

Happy Scumday!

Oh thanks! so you must be like on the other side of the world or something, because I've still got another 12 hours before my scumday rolls around.


Anyways, here is my claim, and since you were nice and wished me happy scumday I'll withhold the snark I had planned to lay on thick:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3100515

Rhinox.

Claim.

whatever.

VT
flavor name is the bluh bluh bluh.

Back on June 3rd.

[Rhinox]

wait a minute.

someone just deleted a post.

RC made a post that said something about highly doubting there was a VT in the game.

[Rhinox]

p-edit: ya I had a brain fart.

For everyone else, the post said something about RC doubting there was a VT in the game, which was more evidence I was scum because I claimed VT.

I saw that, went to page 1 to find this: "Tanstalas -

Vanilla Townie

- The Door, lynched D1" so I could laught at RC for his ineptitude, but by the time I came back the post I saw was gone.

Which, again, points to Nacho/Rhinox.

And pul's result?

[Rhinox]

also:

VT (best possible scum claim in endgame)

I didn't claim in endgame, I claimed on, what was it, Day 2?

[Rhinox]

Is this the, "the louder you type, the more correct and awesomer you are" strategy?

[Rhinox]

As of right now, I see no way pul is scum over charlie. My vote is going to be going there unless something drastic changes my mind.

Pul, RC and I were both online and active when charlie voted nacho. If we were scum together, nacho woulda been lynched. RC coulda switched to nacho easy and that shouldn't have raised any eyebrows because RC was voting nacho like all game. charlie wouldn't have unvoted

because he's scum

because he thought nacho was scum and had just posted he was going to PROVE it. you guys said a bunch of stuff, but for me, today's choice seems pretty simple.

[Rhinox]

With such a strong and committed stance, I find your lack of vote disturbing.
Anyway, there is no hurry.

So, this statement was just pandering then:

P-edit: I advocate patience in LyLo.

???

[Rhinox]

<-----not scum, see?

now charlie has to convince me not to shun him.

[Rhinox]

Prologue

good.

That makes me feel at ease and takes my decision making out of this process.

epilogue

I have nothing to add right now, is there anything you want to ask me, Rhinox?

I'm more interested to hear if charlie has anything to say. I'd be kinda surprised to find out if you are scum with RC and decided to come out and fake an innocent on nacho when RC had been pushing so hard for the rhinox+nacho connection.

But... when I put my tinfoil hat on, I can see it being a very good move for distancing from RC and setting yourself up for a good position today. You also did know about there only being 2 scum, and you did get the sk lynched. I'm thinking (with my tinfoil hat on), what if you're a scum role cop and found the sk?

[Rhinox]

Would you rather I make a case against Pulindar that pleases me or one that tries to convince you?

hmmm... it kinda concerns me that you feel there should be a distinction between the 2. If there is a legitimate case for pulindar being scum, it should both please you and be convincing.

Keep in mind, I'm going to be reading through both of you and deciding for myself ultimately based on my own reads, but I will take what you have to say into consideration.

[Rhinox]

eenie meenie miney.... jk, I'll do stuff tomorrow and figure out who to vote

[Rhinox]

Yeah I've seen a mafia tracker before, I didn't need the link to prove it.

This is a tougher decision than I thought coming into the day. Not as cut and dry as I thought it was going to be. I kinda wish we'd have had time for nacho to say who he was going to target yesterday before the day ended. The modkill kinda screwed us there. Of course, didn't think of it until just now, but isn't a modkill on scum not supposed to end the day? bleh, not important now, just rambling.

OK, time to go look at isos. Not saying I'm going to post huge PbPA's, but if I have any questions or anything sticks out to me, I'll point it out. Cutting it close to deadline so I will probably be placing my vote tonight (don't want to screw up the time conversion).

[Rhinox]

Shit...

If its any consolation, I was going to vote charlie. Yeah, there were RL circumstances. I don't wish to share publicly. Anyone who really wants to know can PM me.

[Rhinox]

whats an adventurer? What gave you the idea to claim an innocent on nacho? That was a pretty good play and pretty much the reason I

voted

was going to vote charlie.