Mini1147-Royal Mafia at the Round Table (Game Over!)

Duplicity · Post Post #593 (isolation #0) » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:54 pm

Hey everyone, I haven't got the time to read through the entire thread to catch up just yet but I promise to be fully caught up in 48 hours.

I noticed there's a guilty report today meaning the lynch is essentially between NE and Twisted so I'm going to request that no one hammers until I catch up. Thanks in advance.

Duplicity · Post Post #602 (isolation #1) » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:10 am

First of, this is a hydra account of Regfan (R) and Secret (G) generally though this game R will be playing the entirety of the game, G has already spread himself too thin in other games though if I need his thoughts on something I'll ask him. I am now indeed fully caught up with the exception of a few posts that I've promised myself to go back and re-read in more depth. My catch-up-notes are in the spoiler below, warning they are indeed long and very rough. I have fairly solid reads at the moment but I'll go into the explanations of these reads in the next 24 or so hours, pretty much whenever I can get away from my family during easter.

Town Reads.

Quilford - Confirmed Town.
Javert - Confirmed Town.
Erratus Apathos - Town.
Prosaurus - Leaning Town.
Necessary Evil - Leaning Town mainly due to interactions with TS, I highly doubt this is a buss but I'll have to do more reading into it to rule it out for certain.

Null Reads.

Farside. Null.

Scum Reads.

Rhinox - Leaning Scum.
Maxous - Leaning Scum.
Twistedspoon - Scum. Scum. Scum. Unsure why he wasn't lynched yesterday.

Spoiler: Catch up notes

Duplicity · Post Post #603 (isolation #2) » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:17 am

Twistedspoon wrote:so you guys think it's more likely that I'm insane or there's a framer than myself actually just getting a guilty on NE?

Occham's razor. By following this I'm correct and we should lynch NE

Unsure I've missed it I don't believe anyones claimed this, the claim is that we believe you're mafia rather than believing you're cop.

To those who are unaware of Twisteds meta I would suggest reading this game: Donner Mafia where Twisted was a PR and played completly differently, he constantly stated his opinions and thoughts on the lynches when they were bad; Something he did not do here when he claims that he thought Ender was town.

Duplicity · Post Post #616 (isolation #3) » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:32 pm

The easter drama has finally come to an end, I shall have reasoning for all my reads up within 12 hours from now. Just some questions for everyone:

1. Based upon NE and TS's interactions would you rule anyone out as mafia or be more inclined to believe someone in particular was mafia in light of their flip?
2. What's your current read on Rhinox?
3. What do you make out of TwistedSpoon claiming he believed Ender due to it being a "One-shot" themed game when Ender was the only person who had claimed a One Shot role?

Duplicity · Post Post #622 (isolation #4) » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:28 am

Really dissapointed that you're replacing out Erratus, reading through the game your play style is one that would easily mesh with mine. I'll get to my other reads later, I want to read into something first.

Javert - Town, Clear.

-

Quilford - Town, Clear.

-

Erratus - Town.

I've read through his posts over and over again without finding anything that would change my opinion at all. The following I read as town-tells:
1. His thoughts and opinions throughout the game almost mirror mine as I read through it with a few exceptions.
2. His attempt to redirect the vig shot away from Ender reads as a town-tell especially due to the fact that everyone else was pushing towards him.
3. The confidence in his vote on Oso and shown frustration over the lack of agreement in it reads as a town-tell even though it's incorrect.
-

Prosaurus - Leaning Town.

Although I can agree that his ISO posts #1-6 were scummy I believe he has consistently town-told since. The following I read as town-tells:
1. The fact he asks to be vig-shot as a newbie knowing full-well that Javert doesn't back-down often is something I think he would avoid doing as mafia.
2. The fact he notices and points out Enders soft-claim reads as a town-tell, I believe he would have kept this information secret to use for night-discussion as mafia.
3. The doubting and paranoia over the mason claims reads as newb-town. This is further added to by his carefullyness over the current situation.

Duplicity · Post Post #629 (isolation #5) » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:45 am

Rhinox wrote: TWISTED HAS NO REASON TO FAKE A GUILTY AS SCUM IN THIS SITUATION. HE WOULD FAKE AN INNO OR BE ROLEBLOCKED. TWISTED IS TOWN, NE IS SCUM. LYNCH NE!!!

Calm down, stop spamming like a moron and think about this for two seconds. Throughout majority of yesterday Twisted was FoS'ed by a large portion of the players in the game. The suspicion towards him meant the likelyhood that he would get lynched today was incredibly high to begin with. Knowing that there's a lot of suspicion towards him the best tactic possible for him to do as mafia is to fake a guilty, push on it and remove another msylnch the town have.

Farside22 wrote: I'm pretty certain Jav claimed day vig during the same time. A one shot day vig is pretty normal to me, but I have to remind myself that TS is more newb so I guess I should take that will a grain of salt.

Jav hadn't stated he was a one-shot vig at that point, just that he was a day-vig.

Duplicity · Post Post #633 (isolation #6) » Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:13 am

Rhinox, why would his scum partners jump on board with the lynch right away? Doing so would expose them, therefore they rather fence-sit over his allignment and buss if need by, otherwise they'll vote out NE.

The argument isn't that he's mafia because he claims to have a guilty, the argument is that the fact he claimed to have a guilty is a null-tell, not a zomgstrongtowntell like you're attempting to make it out.

Duplicity · Post Post #635 (isolation #7) » Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:30 am

Rhinox wrote:Tell me who his scum partners are sitting back fencesitting ready to bus then!

I believe I've stated my scum-reads already, but if you want me to repeat it then I will, I believe his partners are in Maxous/Farside/You.

Rhinox wrote:If TS was so scummy that he was such the obvious lynch choice today, then everybody should have been wanting to lynch him yesterday rather than HERP DERP let's let him live and see a result. Now, OH LOOK A RESULT TS is scum regardless of what result he would have claimed.... Wat?

Rest assured, I would have lynched him yesterday if I was in the game then.

Duplicity · Post Post #637 (isolation #8) » Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:57 am

Rhinox wrote:Yeah I was meaning to ask you about why I'm on your list by the way.

I'll go into it in more depth later, in the middle of typing up the rest of my reads so expect it quite soon, but the underlying reason is mainly due to the fact you slide by through most of day one without showing any real strong opinions. The posts you did made were logical but involved very small amounts of subjective opinions. Your play has been the polar opposite today though, not exactly sure what to make of it yet.

Duplicity · Post Post #656 (isolation #9) » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:45 am

G, the other head of this hydra stated interest in taking part in this game to me last night, he's catching up at the current moment and I'm going to refrain from posting too much until I've had a good chance to discuss reads with him. We should have our collective thoughts on the matter up quite soon though.

With that said the fact that Twisted soft-claimed two minutes after Ender outright claimed seems more of a scum-tell than anything else honestly. The thought process of "Someone has claimed my role, I should post saying I believe there's a one-shot theme in this game" rather than thinking over the claim or the likelyhood of two exact roles co-existing in the setup seems heavily flawed.

Duplicity · Post Post #658 (isolation #10) » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:06 am

Twistedspoon wrote:problem?

I for one have never seen a setup that involved two cops, or two one shot cops, due to your lack of experience at this site I'm betting this is the case for you as well. Therefore seeing a double-role-claim occur natural instinct would be to doubt it, this you didn't do at all.

Duplicity · Post Post #665 (isolation #11) » Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:57 pm

Erratus Apathos wrote:This is not the ragey, gut-reaction insulting that townies often do. This is the scummy-type of insulting: deny that there even is a case on you and call everyone on it stupid/sheep. His remark on Rhinox is especially scummy. Rhinox's flip flop on TS is not "shutting his brain off" or "blindly following someone". Just the opposite in fact, it shows he's considering new evidence, rather than mindlessly tunneling. NE paints him as stupid though, in the hopes that others will dismiss his arguments. This is a scum tactic, and NE is totally scum.

I can see what you're saying here and I do agree NE's reaction and defence to the guilty seems emotionless which is incredibly off given the situation though I don't believe that changes TS's previous actions indication of his allignment.

Although this suggestion may sound insane because it would be horrible scum play but do you believe this could potentially be a buss?

Duplicity · Post Post #667 (isolation #12) » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:10 pm

Twistedspoon wrote:what's so hard to believe about a cop getting a guilty?
That's exactly what I did and all I've done

1. The fact that you instantly believed Enders claim rather than taking time to think it over.
2. The fact that when even when you believed his claim you did nothing to prevent him from getting voted, lynched or vig shot.
3. The fact you showed close to no care over what lynch was going to go through yesterday.
4. The fact that you state you had a strong scum read on NE and then checked him, if your read on him was strong you have no need to reaffirm your suspicions, you would check someone you're unsure about.
5. The fact you're attempting to use the why isn't he lynched yet card when you can see how very clearly this isn't an easy choice given both of your play throughout the game.
6. The fact you haven't once attempting to state alternate reads or judge peoples opinions on believeing you or not. If you are indeed a one-shot cop likelyhood is that you die tonight, you seem to have no care in the world that your death is impending whereas a townie would be doing everything they can while still alive.

Duplicity · Post Post #670 (isolation #13) » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:50 am

1. Your explanation comes down to you stating you questioned him about it which I barely see being the case.
2. What do you mean what more could you do? You could have stated openely that you were sure he was town and not to have the lynch between him/you which at the time would have been town/town to you.
3. I'll wait for G's opinion on this point, but from what I saw this really isn't the case.
4. I can see that this is indeed a null-tell.
5. The attitude of each of your posts are 'why isn't he lynched yet' not I should attempt to explain the case towards him.
6. Doesn't matter if you think there's a chance that you might live, the high likelyhood of you dying should be enough to force you into participating more.

Maxous, it would be horrible play because it would mean one of them having to explain the reasoning behind them still being alive close to end game. On top of that if the interaction during the buss is even slightly of enough leadway is given for town to have a chance to catch two mafia. Yes, I do indeed believe NE's defence has been suspicious, I stated so earlier.

Duplicity · Post Post #681 (isolation #14) » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:50 am

To be perfectly honest I can see this being a Twisted/NE buss. Some shuffling of my reads since last stated.

Town Reads:

Quilford, Javert, Erratus Apathos, Prosarus, Rhinox

Null Reads:

Farside

Scum Reads:

NE, Maxous, Twistedspoon

Also, no one hammer, G has promised me a discussion about our reads in this game later today

Duplicity · Post Post #685 (isolation #15) » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:26 pm

I just did some re-reading waiting for G to message me, here's some observations/questioons I have:

1. Rhinox, what made you change your mind about the point you brought up here?

2. If Maxous is mafia then Prosarus is town due to Prosarus attitude in this post.

3. If this is a buss and both Twisted and NE are scum then Maxous is town for this post.

4. This post by farside seems forced and over the top.

5. The entire reasoning behind Farsides vote on Me=Weird was because she didn't like his interaction with Pros, she stated so here. This is: 1) A horrible reason to suspect someone. 2) Completly untrue, since it was EA that was pushing against Pros for this reasoning.

6. EA, what changed your mind about NE exactly? Here you state you believe his defence is that of a townie.

7. Twisted, what do you mean by we're in this post.

Updated reads:

Town Reads:

Quilford, Javert, Erratus Apathos, Prosarus, Rhinox

Null Reads:

Maxous

Scum Reads:

NE, Farside, Twistedspoon

Duplicity · Post Post #687 (isolation #16) » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:41 pm

Just caught up with thread. NE, if you're really town you need to be giving the thread your reads right now. We've decided that although we think something is seriously odd with the setup if TS is being truthful, your overall play is a scum-read for us and that means we're willing to hammer. If you really are town, post something useful instead of complaining.

-gorilla

Duplicity · Post Post #731 (isolation #17) » Tue May 03, 2011 3:31 am

I need to have a discussion with G as soon as possible, though last we spoke our town-read on Pros had gotten far stronger and todays actions only strengthen that. I still feel like yesterday was a buss but G doesn't anymore.

The self-hammer is generally because mafia is already on the lynch, otherwise the player generally lets his partners hammer to gain town-cred, so going to need to do some more reading into EAs slot.

Duplicity · Post Post #733 (isolation #18) » Tue May 03, 2011 3:58 am

NE's self-hammer means that at the very least one possibly two of his partners on his lynch already.
Necessary Evil (6): Twistedspoon (Disagreement on), Rhinox (Town-read) , Erratus Apathos (Prior Town-read), Quilford (Town), Maxous (Town-read), Necessary Evil (Scum)

Assuming Twisted is town for a second, it means that one of my town-reads is incorrect, of those the one I'm least certain on given NEs flip is EA.
Assuming Twisted is scum for a second, his other partner is likely on the wagon as well as the guilty would have been planned to give them both town-cred. This is where it gets tricky, if this is the case I can see Maxous as his partner. In other words, if I can get a solid read on EA that I'm comfortable with I can get then work out TS's allignment.

On a slightly unrelated note, what's everyones thoughts on a potential mass-claim here? With 2 Masons (Confirmed), 1-Shot-Day-Vig (Confirmed), 1-Shot-Cop (Confirmed) and another 1-Shot-Cop claim I don't see any more power roles in the setup, if another power-role were to claim during the mass-claim it would shed some light onto the likelyhood of TS's legitimacy.

Duplicity · Post Post #741 (isolation #19) » Tue May 03, 2011 6:54 am

TwistedSpoon wrote: small question, but how does another power role claiming mean that you'll finally believe me?

It does in fact the opposite, if there's another power-role claim I would believe your claim less, however if there were no other power-role claims I would have to rethink my overview on the game.

Rhinox wrote: Anybody who thinks TS is scum better have a damn good reason other than a baseless accusation that they were bussing. Come up with a reasonable explaination for why the hell they would do that?

I'm not saying that I fully believe he bussed, becuase G and I are still considering everything we've read but I will say there is definte advantages towards bussing. It's not a "baseless accustation".

Here are reasons why bussing woiuld be advantagous for TwistedSpoon:

1. Throughout day one there was a high amount of suspicion cast towards TwistedSpoon meaning the likelyhood that he were to be lynched on day two were massive. If he facts a guilty on his partner one of the two following situations occur:
1a. Twisted gets lynched NE looks town in comparison and thus can breeze throughout the rest of the game.
1b. NE gets lynched and town believe Twisted to be legitimate as proven via your own words.

2. Bussing a vanilla mafia means that mafia keep their power-roles while allowing themselves to get onto the NE lynch quite early making them all look good in future days.

3. NE was already highly suspected, therefore guiltiing him just moves the chances that he were to get lynched at some point in the game from highly likely to certain.

Duplicity · Post Post #744 (isolation #20) » Tue May 03, 2011 7:51 am

The above post is mine for clariffication purposes.

Duplicity · Post Post #751 (isolation #21) » Tue May 03, 2011 8:42 pm

Prosaurus is town, towny town town. In this instance him thinking scum have daytalk is more likely a townslip than a scumslip. Standard site practice from what I've observed in my short time here is that scum typically do not have daytalk, therefore I assume it as the default for this game which means Prosaurus is likely to be mistaken about scum having daytalk and therefore town, this is in addition to all the other reasons to think he's town which have been discussed already. He is town.

There are a few reasons to think Twisted might have been bussing NE, I still think that the setup seems to be fairly broken if there's really a town 1-shot dayvig, two masons, AND two 1-shot cops and I can explain the numbers regarding why if there's questions. There's him being locked in a claim, there's the towncred that would come from that bus. But at the same time, I look at his day 1 interactions with NE and it doesn't really look like they were bussing to me. I'd file him as possible but unlikely scum at this point.

haven't really caught up on thread, was leaning town on rhinox, scum on farside, unsure on maxous, and had some bad doubts about EA. If farside is scum I don't think she's scum with twistedspoon, though.

-gorilla

Duplicity · Post Post #761 (isolation #22) » Wed May 04, 2011 1:15 pm

Alright, I'm having some internet difficulties, this post was typed before I've had a chance to read the recent posts in the thread but I still feel as if it's needed to post. G will be taking over for the next few days until I can find a way to get internet back at my house.

Living Players: Quilford, Rhinox, Maxous, Prosarus, Farside22, Locke, Duplicity, Twistedspoon

1.

Quilford – Town:

There’s no need to go into this, he’s clear.

2.

Duplicity – Town.:

We know we’re town thus no need to go into this either.

3.

Rhinox – Town:

This read I’m actually fairly confident, as is G, our earlier hesitations with him have been dealt with in his last few posts. The following are reasons we believe he’s town:
3a. The depth of his analysis yesterday attempting to show how it was optimal to lynch NE read as a legitimate town effort.
3b. The annoyance and frustration that he showed in the amount of time it took for the NE lynch to occur along with his suspicion of those not voting NE read as town opposed to bussing mafia.
3c. His ‘Wifoming’ over the death is something mafia avoid to do. Talking about the night-kill is generally a big no-no for mafia and he’s experienced enough to avoid doing so.
3d. His turn about town read on Farside at a time there is a lot of people suspecting her is something mafia would avoid doing. They would merely stand back and watch her lynch take place.
3e. Mafia avoid putting definite team suggestions out there such as “One mafia is in A/B, and the other is in C/D’ whereas town naturally put together likely teams via interactions.

4.

Prosarus – Town:

This read we’re both confident about. We’ve gone into our reasoning for why we believe this earlier which I’ll state here again for solidities sake:
4a. His thoughts and opinions throughout the game almost mirror mine as I read through it with a few exceptions.
4b. His attempt to redirect the vig shot away from Ender reads as a town-tell especially due to the fact that everyone else was pushing towards him.
4c. The confidence in his vote on Oso and shown frustration over the lack of agreement in it reads as a town-tell even though it's incorrect.
4d. The fact that he believes that mafia have some form of day-talk reads as a town-tell. I could be misreading this, but I’ve never seen day talk in a mini in which it isn’t blatantly stated in the OP.

This only leaves Maxous, TwistedSpoon, Farside, Locke.

My base reads on these players are as follows:
5.

Locke - Slight Town.

6.

Farside - Slight Scum

7.

Maxous - Slight Town

8.

TwistedSpoon - Slight Scum

This is where it gets tricky.
- I can’t see TwistedSpoon being mafia with Locke at all given yesterdays and day ones interaction.
- I can’t see TwistedSpoon being mafia with Farside at all given the fact she’d have voted NE and stuck on him if that was a planned buss.
- I can’t see Maxous being mafia with Farside at all given the outright eagerness towards making a case on her.

This leaves the only realistic pairings remaining to be.
1. TwistedSpoon (Slight Scum) + Maxous (Slight Town) - Possible.
2. EA (Slight Town) + Maxous (Slight Town) - Unlikely.
3. EA (Slight Town) + Farside (Slight Scum) - Possible.

I am going to need to do some more reading in depth over the interactions of these pairings but I would like to hear everyones thoughts and stances over which they believe may be the case and which they doubt being the case.

Edit: The above few posts make me more certain on my Rhinox town-read, and I'm starting to regain a town-read on EA.

Duplicity · Post Post #789 (isolation #23) » Sat May 07, 2011 5:44 am

I have been lax in keeping up with the thread, this is just brief catch-up post while I work on some serious analysis

Locke Lamora wrote:Duplicity: what is it that makes you think NE/TS weren't bussing D1?

They both went after each other fairly strongly day 1, TS kept his vote on NE all day and never budged it, which doesn't seem like a scum move to me. Yes, bla bla distancing, but I think he would have looked for an excuse to join another wagon, or been weak with his vote, but he doesn't and NE votes him back, overall right now it just doesn't look like interaction between two partners.

[quote="Maxous@Duplicity: You mentioned you were having serious doubts on EA? What doubts?
Also if you are regaining a town-read on EA(locke) does that mean myself and twisted are the mafia pairing then?[/quote]

Can't answer for the second half because that's Regfan's idea about pairings, but reasons for being wary of EA slot are as follows: he had some slight interaction with NE day 1 and then wrote him off as town, put NE on the list of targets he didn't want to get vigged with very little discussion. NE drops this statement in his ISO #1:

Necessary Evil wrote:The case on Ender is even worse. That was just a random vote. Any suspicion regarding that vote depends on EA being scum, and it's too early to tell that especially since Oso's case on EA is so weak.

which just feels all kinds of bad to me - looks like newbie scum making the mistake of defending their partner from a lolRVS case.

better post later today, hopefully

-gorilla

Duplicity · Post Post #798 (isolation #24) » Sat May 07, 2011 6:11 pm

I should be caught up within 24 hours.

Duplicity · Post Post #806 (isolation #25) » Mon May 09, 2011 4:32 pm

I've been following the thread and I still think the scum are Maxous+TS. G seems to be much stronger in the Maxous read than the G one at the moment.

Vote: Maxous

Duplicity · Post Post #814 (isolation #26) » Tue May 10, 2011 1:20 pm

Quilford - What's your thoughts on TS+Maxous

Duplicity · Post Post #819 (isolation #27) » Tue May 10, 2011 7:48 pm

Twisted, if you think Farside is scum, who do you think her partner is?

Duplicity · Post Post #821 (isolation #28) » Tue May 10, 2011 7:57 pm

Quilford wrote:There's no way we have TSscum

Explain.

While you're at it state your thoughts on Maxous.

Duplicity · Post Post #823 (isolation #29) » Tue May 10, 2011 8:03 pm

Twistedspoon wrote:also, do you want my thoughts on maxous too?

Sure.

Duplicity · Post Post #839 (isolation #30) » Fri May 13, 2011 6:20 pm

Maxous wrote:@Duplicity: Have you explained why I am mafia? I don't remember it.

It's predominanly PoE combined with the fact that you were both G and I's biggest FoS when reading through the thread.

I'm going to step in here. I'm starting to get town-farside vibes. Rhinox is town. Pros is town. Quildford is town. Locke is likely town. We're lynching Twisted or Maxous today. End of, so I suggest someone moves their vote.

Duplicity · Post Post #844 (isolation #31) » Sat May 14, 2011 12:35 am

TwistedSpoon wrote: what has caused to to change you mind so late?

Sure, the recent town-tells I've gotten from farside include:
1. Her agreement in the fact that you're mafia, which is something I'm having difficulty shacking, ie. I don't think she'd buss you in this position.
2. Her lack of fight in preventing her lynch in this post reads as a town-tell, given the situation at the moment.
3. I read meta-research like the one shes done in this post as a town-tell.

TwistedSpoon wrote: Also, can I ask you how would scumflips from Maxous or Farside change your reads.

1. Farside scum-flip would lead me to re-read the entire game for a reassesment.
2. Maxous scum-flip would lead me to instant vote you tommorow.

TwistedSpoon wrote: actually, you've changed you maxous read too it seems from my quotes above. what has caused this?

As I previously stated it's mostly PoE related.

TwistedSpoon wrote: I'll try and get some reads up

Yes. Please. Do. This.

Duplicity · Post Post #869 (isolation #32) » Mon May 16, 2011 5:34 am

I've been studying for an exam that ends tommorow, awful timing for the day to end.

I'm fairly happy with the hammer, if Maxous flips scum TS needs to be looked into deeply.

Duplicity · Post Post #876 (isolation #33) » Wed May 18, 2011 3:02 pm

I had a disagreement with G last night about optimal play today anticpating and expecting Quilfords death, I was stating that no lynching due to mylo would be optimal while he didn't trust Prosarus going into a lylo situtation, given the kill I have to agree with him though lynching today is the best way to deal with this.

Rhinox dying over Quilford increases my FoS towards Twistedspoon for the sole purpose of Quilfords strong defence of Twistedspoon, given how yesterday played out I see Rhinox reconisdering his reads entirely because they all were based around Maxous-scum whereas Quilford seemed to believe that Twisted was town regardless of anyone elses allignment or flip.

I'm going to need to do some thinking though because I'm having difficulty putting together potential partners, I'll have a conversation with G later but until then I want everyones thoughts on the night-kill.

Duplicity · Post Post #879 (isolation #34) » Wed May 18, 2011 11:09 pm

Actually, I like the idea of mass-claiming right now as well.

Quilford, create a list of which order you want people to claim in.

Duplicity · Post Post #897 (isolation #35) » Fri May 20, 2011 1:42 am

Twistedspoon wrote:but why Rhinox? Surely this could apply to anyone but Quilford? I don't really see what you're saying here. anyone but a quilford kill made me scummy? Surely even If I were scum I'd have still killed quilly as he is unlynchable. Please explain

Rhinox wasn't suspected by anyone in the game and had no real chance of being lynched, therefore shooting him is actually a good shot from the mafia to be honest. On top of that he's a better scum hunter than Quilford and showed indication towards reassesing his reads whenever new information was presented. So yes, although Quilford is "Unlynchable" you shooting Rhinox prevented someone who wasn't going to get lynched and had the possibilty of pushing on you alive. Anyway. G seems to completly disagree with my read on you, he's confident in LL being scum and has promised me a discussion about it sometime in the next day or two.

Locke Lamora wrote:What do people actually think the benefits are to mass-claiming here? As far as I can tell, it's very unlikely that we're going to have any verifiable night actions and so all it would do is help scum.

The benefits include attaining reads based on how and what people claim, the benefits are slim sure, but the negatives are also minor. Even if mafia shoot at Quilford tonight assuming there's no doctor and there is we're still in a position where the same number of unclears would be alive. So yes, mass-claim is optimal.

Locke Lamora wrote:Duplicity: who do you think is TS's buddy now that Maxous has flipped town? Why did you decide that NE/TS could be a bus but then later state that their interactions D1 didn't look like it was?

I believe NE/TS IS a buss. G believes NE/TS is unlikely a buss due to their D1 interactions. The two different posts are from different heads. As for who I believe TS"s buddy is, to be honest I'm quite clueless and need to do a lot of re-reading.

Duplicity · Post Post #899 (isolation #36) » Fri May 20, 2011 2:20 am

Twistedspoon wrote:I assume you both talk in a QT about this game together?
Has G said who he suspects LL's partner is?

1. We talk in a QT/MSN
2. No he hasn't, he just finished his finals a few days ago and promised more activity but I've infact seen less of him, assuming he's in celebration period which is fair enough.

Twistedspoon wrote: before you scamper off and do that, explain why so far you don't think any of the players would be suitable buddies for me, were I scum.

Would be more than willing to.

Farside/Twistedspoon - Doubt it because Farside would have known that NE was likely going to get lynched and wouldn't have had a problem with it, therefore would have kept her vote on NE rather than jumping of and casting suspicion on herself.

Locke/Twistedspoon - EA suggested that Twisted get vigged, unsure if he would ask for his partner to be vigged. His reaction to NE's defence and Twisteds posts throught D2 seem very natural and not scum vs scum.

Proasarus/Twistedspoon - Haven't even thought about this, but I still have a town-read on Pros thus I doubt this is the case, on top of that Twisteds push on Pros would be suicidal if it went through as scum.

Duplicity · Post Post #902 (isolation #37) » Fri May 20, 2011 2:42 am

Twistedspoon wrote:so surely, since none of these pairings make much sense as you've just shown us, then surely the obvious conclusion is that the remaining 2 scum is a pairing that does not involve me.

Which is exactly why I want to re-read.

Twistedspoon wrote:also, do you mind If I explain why your rhinox NK theory isn't working for me?

Not entirely sure what you mean but if I were to take a guess it would be: "Why doesn't the Rhinox NK theory make me town?"

If that's what you mean it's becuase Quilford has shown that he isn't willing to rethink his read of you and is insistant on you being town, thus him being alive moves the likelihood of you being lynched close to zero.

Duplicity · Post Post #934 (isolation #38) » Sun May 22, 2011 3:55 pm

I believe G is going to be back online later tonight to finish our discussion about this game I'll share all of our thoughts then.

For now, Quilford we're not NL'ing the benefit in doing so is close to zilch while it means that just one incorrect town vote could lead to a blitz and end game which needs to be avoided at all costs.

Duplicity · Post Post #948 (isolation #39) » Mon May 23, 2011 11:00 am

I really will attempt to devote the time needed to this game later today, still waiting on G to come back on msn and it's becoming increasingly more frustrating having to chase him up on his thoughts.

Twistedspoon wrote: nah, you've been awesome
and you're learning anyways so no worries

This is a complete contradiction to the opinion you had of Prosaurus at day-start, you came into the day believing that Prosaraus is mafia and nothing has happened that would change your mind however you seem contempt to deny the fact that Prosarus has had an extreme lack of contribution to the game and buddy him instead of believe that his lack of contribution is something that would or should further your scum-read of him.

Duplicity · Post Post #955 (isolation #40) » Mon May 23, 2011 10:39 pm

Twistedspoon wrote:I never said i didn't think he was scum. I just appreciate playing with him alignment-regardless.

That's not at all what you said, you believe he's been awesome this game therefore you're entirely comfortable with his contributions leaving your entire basis of him being scum down to the fact he mentioned day-talk.

On a side note, G has promised to talk tommorow afternoon. I refuse to continously await his thoughts before I post my reads and opinions in here so if he doesn't actually turn up to have a discussion then I'll replace out and rejoin with my own account. This game is in a crucial period where activity and discussion is badly needed otherwise it's just going to stagnate.

Duplicity · Post Post #957 (isolation #41) » Mon May 23, 2011 10:47 pm

Locke Lamora wrote:Pro: so you'd say that your top two suspects going into last night were Farside and myself?

What I believe Pros is attempting to say is that if you were to ask her to revise her reads based purely on the NK she would believe the scum would be you and Farside due to Rhinox suspecting a possible partnership between you.

Duplicity · Post Post #959 (isolation #42) » Mon May 23, 2011 11:04 pm

Locke wrote: Yes, exactly. So if scum had designed the NK to make Farside/me look like the most likely scumteam, I have doubts about Prosaurus' motives in pushing that scumteam, particularly when Prosaurus' play has been pretty devoid of any analysis for some time now.

I would disagree, I personally believe that the Rhinox NK as I previously stated increases the likelihood that TwistedSpoon is mafia rather than you and Farside being a scum-team thus I don't understand how Pros attempting to push the fact he believes the NK leads towards you two when questioned is scummy. Although G and I seem to be disagreeing on a lot of reads right now both of us still maintain our solid Pros-town read thus I don't see any particular way analysis over his play is beneficial at the moment. I'm much more interested in a mass-claim.

Duplicity · Post Post #961 (isolation #43) » Mon May 23, 2011 11:36 pm

I can understand where you're coming from though but I don't see much benefit in attempting to push such trivial and irrelevant lines of questioning towards Pros. Even if you believe he's mafia it's not likely to attain any results. If you have any real concerns about his play apart from the fact he's pushing towards yourself I'd like to hear it.

I disagree is with the reasoning behind the kill, if you take a look at Rhinox's play it becomes very obvious that he puts a great deal of effort into scumhunting and into the game. He shows willingness to change his thoughts and opinions whenever given a new piece of information. Therefore I read the kill as mafia being scared that he could potentially change his reads towards them

Duplicity · Post Post #963 (isolation #44) » Tue May 24, 2011 12:02 am

Locke Lamora wrote: I'm planning to look at him in more detail to develop my read.

I certaintly am interested in awaiting this though I don't think there's much likelihood that our town-read on him is going to change anytime soon.

I'm actually interested in what your read on our slot currently is.

Duplicity · Post Post #972 (isolation #45) » Tue May 24, 2011 4:16 pm

farside22 wrote:LL: I have seen scum use kills to make others look guilty, I have been lynch before do to a NK in my time. I have seen scum try to cause confusion ala American God's. I have seen scum kill confirmed town for obv reason's. When you look into the NK it's in my view in favor of the scum team and helps them more then the town.

Attaining and drawing information from the nightkills is a big part to the game, sure you don't create and rest a case upon it but it's needed in this thread discussion about it occurs.

Currently having the conversation with G, we're quite positive we've found one scum, should have a case up later tonight.

Duplicity · Post Post #976 (isolation #46) » Tue May 24, 2011 9:55 pm

Unfortunatly I don't have the time needed to fully go into the case at the current moment however I will briefly go into what I came across in my re-read and what I discussed with G. There was an incident about half way through day one that everyone has seemed to have forgotten.

This incident involved EA believing that Farside was editing and manipulating her posts and occured in Post #147, Post #149, Post #150 and Post #156. I don't see EA screenshotting his partners posts and stating it openely in the thread with knowledge that it could potentially lead towards Farsides mod-kill and a major inconvienance towards his scum-team. This means I don't see any possible way that Farside can be scum with LL. Considering that the only thing G and I both agree upon is our solid town read on Prosarus this means that Twistedspoon absouletly has to be mafia.

Vote: Twistedspoon

I'm incredibly comfortable with this vote, excluding the fact that he's essentially confirmed mafia via PoE (Process of Elimination) he is also attempting to skeet his way through this day without actually attempting to do any scumhunting. He himself has stated that he believes Pros is mafia, quite strongly actually however has not once attempted to convince anyone of this nor has he attempted to state alternate reads he has or what he believes of the fact that Farside wasn't actually lynched yesterday.

I believe LL has gone into his linkages and connection with NE enough that I need-not go into it myself but this is all going to come down to whether or not Quilford is willing to reconsider his incorrect read of Twistedspoon or not. If this lynch does go ahead, without meaning to sound arrogant I believe our slot is likely to bite the night-kill tonight meaning I would rather we not rush through this day until I can have another conversation with G about who we believe the other mafia is - He has a strong FoS towards LL however has been unable to explain it to me without pointing to a awkward bit of interaction from NE to EA on day one which is close to meaningless as it could have just been a subtle attempt at buddying.

Duplicity · Post Post #978 (isolation #47) » Tue May 24, 2011 10:03 pm

Quilford, if you don't believe Twistedspoon is scum, then who do you believe is scum because honestly I don't see any possible pairing that doesn't involve him.

Duplicity · Post Post #980 (isolation #48) » Tue May 24, 2011 10:11 pm

Locke Lamora wrote:On the flip side, the NE situation is a very risky play for scum to make and would be an incredibly strong bus, particularly for D2.

This is actually untrue, the more I think about it the more I start to believe that bussing day two would actually be optimal play given both of their apperances, it essentially leads to one of the players being viewed as highly likely town throughout the rest of the game rather then them both being highly suspected like they were.

The only real issues is I don't believe that TS would come up with the buss proposal himself and thus I'm attempting to look for something that I remember reading in the past. That being I have a slight memory of Farside stating she disagreed with the idea of bussing however I've been unable to locate it.

Duplicity · Post Post #983 (isolation #49) » Tue May 24, 2011 10:24 pm

Understandable.

Quilford, Locke is correct in stating that although you're confirmed town you still need to explain your reasoning behind your thoughts as well as providing far more thoughts about what has occured throughout the past few days.

Pedit: Yes, I personally have no problem with a mass-claim in this position either and to be perfectly honestly likelihood is that we're going to have catch the final two mafia via pure-scumhunting rather than night-abilities so in an attempt to speed through this mass-claim ordeal I'm willing to claim first if that's okay with the both of you.

Duplicity · Post Post #985 (isolation #50) » Tue May 24, 2011 11:09 pm

Sounds reasonable. Although I don't believe there's any chance that a blitz hammer can occur I may as well

Unvote

until the mass-claim is complete.

I'm

Vanilla Town

, Locke you're up next.

Duplicity · Post Post #993 (isolation #51) » Wed May 25, 2011 12:39 am

Twistedspoon wrote:by the elimination I've just shown
It's not partciularly hard when you know you're town, there's a confirmed townie, a strong town read and a player who lacks 'an evident scum agenda' to use your words
that leaves you and farside. gg

Earlier you stated that you attempted to use PoE and went nowhere, it's in Post #945 I believe. So why all of a sudden have you:

A) Attained a town-read on me
B) Dropped all suspicion on Pros
C) Ignored responding to the incident I brought up which reduces the odds of Farside/EA being scum together.

Duplicity · Post Post #995 (isolation #52) » Wed May 25, 2011 1:09 am

Quilford wrote:It's definitely not LL with farside.

Agree.

Quilford wrote:If Prosaurus is scum I will be surprised and annoyed.

Agree.

Quilford wrote:It's either LL/Dup, Dup/farside, TS/farside IMO

Disagree. It's either TS/Farside or as G believes TS/LL.

Quilford wrote:imma reread soon

Good.

Duplicity · Post Post #998 (isolation #53) » Wed May 25, 2011 1:24 am

[quote="Twistedspoon"]b) I haven't. I'm waiting on his claim atm and if it seems daytalk is likely I'll suspect him again strongly. atm, daytalk doesn't seem too likely [/Url]

What does Pros's claim have to do with the likelyhood of scum having day-talk or not?

Duplicity · Post Post #1000 (isolation #54) » Wed May 25, 2011 1:49 am

Twistedspoon wrote:I want to see how many PRs town got
if they seem to have too many then scum could have been given daytalk to balance this out. Then a slip would become viable
that's why I was interested in massclaim

Given the fact that everyone has claimed VT with the exception of Pros I don't see how any new claim would change or amend your read on him, if he's scum there's a massive likelihood he would claim VT, if he's town he'll claim his real role, regardless I don't see how you would suspect him after his claim.

You stated that you will await his claim to properly read him seems as if you're leaving an opening of where to go if he is indeed a town pr. Ie. You could easily then say, there's no way there's X number of pr's in the setup therefore Pros has to be mafia like I said!

Ignoring claims for a second, what do you make of the incident I pointed out earlier in regarsd to LL/Farside? Do you still believe they're scum together even though that occured?

Duplicity · Post Post #1003 (isolation #55) » Wed May 25, 2011 2:10 am

Twistedspoon wrote:the screenshot incident?

maybe. however I guess EA might have done it for exactly this reason. A new dimension to distancing? I'm unsure. I trust my gut over my assumptions of EA's character. But hey, If I'm ever in a scumteam with farside I'll get her to edit her posts, I'll take a screenshot and coast to the endgame on a wave of screenshot distancing. Not a bad tactic.

Say you believe they did this for a "New dimension of distancing" wouldn't one of them bring it up at some point during the game?

Duplicity · Post Post #1015 (isolation #56) » Wed May 25, 2011 8:47 pm

Quilford wrote:yeah um twisted is town

Explain, becuase you're seeing something that I'm not.

Duplicity · Post Post #1016 (isolation #57) » Wed May 25, 2011 8:49 pm

Also, you previously stated that you also didn't believe in a potential Farside+LL team, therefore you're stating you believe our slot is mafia, in which case again I would like for you to explain your reasoning, because from where I'm sitting it's growing more and more obvious that TS is scum. I'm attemping to read through his past scum games to draw comparisons, should have information up within 24 hours.

Duplicity · Wed May 25, 2011 11:02 pm

Quilford wrote:say this is theoretically the setup

2 One-Shot Cops
2 Town Masons
1 One-Shot Day Vigilante
5 Vanilla Townies
3 Mafia (not sure of specifics)

is it balanced?

It's incredibly hard to judge without knowing the scum roles, if the scum don't have any massive power-roles then no, that's not balanced. Though ignore setup balance and his claim for a second and explain to me what makes you believe TwistedSpoon is town.

Duplicity · Wed May 25, 2011 11:17 pm

From memory godfather in setups with one-shot cops are generally a big no-no, so is the inclusion of cops with masons, it's actually being discussed in [Redacted].

Though to be quite frank his claim is meaningless, there's no possible way he's town via process of elimination.

Duplicity · Thu May 26, 2011 12:20 am

1) Yes you did, you state that scum is LL/Dup + Farside while also stating that LL+Farside aren't a scum-team.

2) Pros never had hammer as I had unvoted, the only way he could have hammered was if you voted Twisted or Twisted self-voted, neither was the case.

3) I've already explained how bussing in a situation such as day twos would be optimal scum play therefore I find it hard to understand what your Twisted town-read is based upon, can you please attempt to elaborate on your explanation.

Duplicity · Thu May 26, 2011 12:54 am

Quilford wrote:1) I fucked up. You're not scum.
2) farside had voted, no?
3) Everything everything everything else on TS makes him scum but the 'one-shot' "claim" makes all that town.

1) Does that mean you really believe it's LL+Farside?
2) Yes, but that's 2 votes on TS, takes 4 to lynch therefore Pros can't hammer.
3) I know where you're coming from G was saying something slightly similar to that for quite a while.

I'm likely going to be unable to post the next day or two, though I'll leave my thoughts with G and he'll probably be able to post during this period.

Duplicity · Post Post #1043 (isolation #62) » Thu May 26, 2011 6:56 pm

Prosaurus wrote:I don't understand how scum need two strong PRs to make it balanced.

If 1 shot vig hits scum D1 and there's 2 1-shot cops who both check scum N1 the game would be over D2, that's something a mod wouldn't allow to be possible.

Duplicity · Sat May 28, 2011 11:30 pm

The vote count if anything points towards Farside and my slot rather than LL's so can you explain how that VCA leads you to believe that LL is scum. This honestly is looking like you attempting to avoid posting reasoning or logic behind your gut-read on LL while also avoiding explaining your town-read on Twisted in greater depth.

There's no way I can stand back and observe a lynch on anyone other than Twistedspoon occur without you changing my mind in regards to Twisted or presenting a case that I find reasonable towards LL/Farside since I don't see any legitimate way that Pros is scum.

Duplicity · Sat May 28, 2011 11:50 pm

Duplicity wrote:Rhinox dying over Quilford increases my FoS towards Twistedspoon for the sole purpose of Quilfords strong defence of Twistedspoon, given how yesterday played out I see Rhinox reconisdering his reads entirely because they all were based around Maxous-scum whereas Quilford seemed to believe that Twisted was town regardless of anyone elses allignment or flip.

Duplicity · Sun May 29, 2011 12:47 am

I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of posting that was, are you attempting to say that the entire reasoning behind your vote on LL is the fact that Rhinox had a level of suspicion towards him before he was killed?

Duplicity · Post Post #1057 (isolation #66) » Sun May 29, 2011 2:23 am

Yes, I can read, attempting to insult me really isn't doing wonderings for your image as a player. You posted observations that Rhinox suggested yesterday without adding any extra comment to them. I'm asking you quite clearly is the entire reason that you suspect LL due to the fact that Rhinox suspected him and died?

Duplicity · Post Post #1059 (isolation #67) » Sun May 29, 2011 2:34 am

Quilford wrote: 1.Why would you feel the need to state the first sentence?
2. If you reread my posts on this page you can see the answer to the second question?
3. Why are you defending LL so hard?

1. Simply because I'm finding your lack of effort in this game frustrating to observe.

2. I have read them and I'm asking you are you honestly attempting to rest the entire game on night-kill speculation when various other reasons for Rhinox's death have been presented.

3. I'm not at all, G actually has a really strong scum-read on LL which I don't exactly share at the moment. I'm just attempting to understand your town-read on TS which you continue to avoid explaining.

Duplicity · Post Post #1061 (isolation #68) » Sun May 29, 2011 2:56 am

1. I just found it unbelievable that someone with such a lack of effort as yours was asking me if I could read.

2. The reasoning behind LL as scum on the VCA all relied on TS being town which I don't think is the case.

3. Meta-examples would be highly appreciated and I'll get G to post next time I see him on MSN, our last conversation went roughly along the lines of me asking him for his case against LL. It revolves around this post with the bolded bit emphasied below:

Necessary Evil wrote:The case on Ender is even worse. That was just a random vote. Any suspicion regarding that vote
depends on EA being scum, and it's too early to tell that
especially since Oso's case on EA is so weak..

Duplicity · Post Post #1063 (isolation #69) » Sun May 29, 2011 3:13 am

Quilford wrote:So what do you think of a possible LL/TS team?

We've discussed TS/Farside and TS/LL quite a lot and TS/LL is something we keep coming back to, not due to interactions but due to the fact neither of us are compromising on our strongest FoS though.

Duplicity · Post Post #1066 (isolation #70) » Sun May 29, 2011 6:07 pm

Prosaurus wrote:Look, this is MyLo. We could if we NL Quildford is almost surely going to be NKed, so that's no help. Why don't we get the two most likely scumteams and then lynch whoever appears in both?

The only difference between this and outright voting is that mafia can just pile on two town players and then just one misguided townies vote could seal the lynch on a town player whereas voting outright two town players have to vote incorrectly for us to lose. Pros, what's your reads on everyone at the moment and please attempt to add reasoning behind it.

Quilford, I told G today that you wanted his thoughts known in-thread however he never responded, I'll attempt to pester him about it next time I see him online.

Duplicity · Post Post #1075 (isolation #71) » Tue May 31, 2011 2:40 am

Ugh. LL considering the fact that the clear is currently voting you along with TS and there's a highly likelyhood that Pros will jump on anytime now is there a particular reason you're not yelling or ordering Quilford to unvote?

Duplicity · Post Post #1077 (isolation #72) » Tue May 31, 2011 3:11 am

As much as I understand the, 'I've played as well as I can and yelling at Quilford isn't going to change that' attitude I also believe that he's open to listening to logical reasons not to lynch you, wouldn't presenting something such as that be better play then standing back and allowing a possible blitz to occur.

You're also forgetting the fact that you need to start convincing us that you're town over Farside because right now I'm having an incredibly hard time placing which one of you are Twisteds partner. And yes, I know that EA suggested TS get vigged D1 but looking at it from a perspective of him being scum G can see him beleiving that a buss in that position would ride him through the entire game.

Duplicity · Post Post #1079 (isolation #73) » Tue May 31, 2011 3:15 am

Twistedspoon wrote:have you spoken with G then?

Yes, yesterday afternoon. If he hasn't posted within 12 hours from now I'll start yelling at him again.

Duplicity · Post Post #1083 (isolation #74) » Tue May 31, 2011 8:47 pm

I don't mean to offend anyone but this is situation is growing more and more frustrating. The amount of support G is giving me in regards to reads this game is minimal and the only player who seemily has put a great deal of effort towards this game is LL who I'm still unable to attain a strong town-read on. To top that of, I will be unable to access the internet from the end of tommorow until a few days after the deadline meaning any contribution I can make towards the lynch has to be done in the next 48 hours roughly.

The fact that Pros is willing to rule out a TwistedSpoon/LL team combination strengthens the town-read I have on him. Mainly due to the fact that if LL or TS was his scum partner the other would be a potential candidate for a lynch tommorow and ruling out their connection closes that possibly for him. If he were scum with Farside the game would be over.

Farside, I need to hear more content from you badly and I need it within the next 24 hours if that's at all possible.

Duplicity · Post Post #1085 (isolation #75) » Tue May 31, 2011 9:33 pm

To top that of TS has been posting constantly in other games while posting minimal content in this one. He has yet to state who he believes the second scum is now that FS/LL have been explained as an unlikely pair and is currently fencesitting on his thoughts of Pros.

Farside, I wasn't kidding incase the first post is skimmed, I do need more content from you.

Duplicity · Post Post #1087 (isolation #76) » Tue May 31, 2011 9:42 pm

Twistedspoon wrote: so you're saying I'm town in all of those games then? Great, tell that to the critics I have in those games

I'm not even going to begin to speculate what roles you are in those games, merely pointing out your severe avoidance at posting any content here.

Twistedspoon wrote: then it could be anyone as the scum pairing. I have no clue

If you're town wouldn't it be your duty and job to scumhunt to work it out? What do you plan to achieve from standing back and doing nothing?

Duplicity · Tue May 31, 2011 11:44 pm

Glad you came around Quilford.

@Mod, do you mind telling us who reviewed the game?

Duplicity · Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:52 pm

Had a talk with Regfan last night. frankly, I'm a lot more apprehensive about lynching TS than he is. Fact is this: We agree at least one of farside or locke has to be scum based on voting and a TS/prosaurus team being extremely implausible, my direct concern is figuring out which one today. He thinks they're bussing him right now, I'm not so sure about that because I can't see the motive. I haven't been posting because I was busy and because I am not used to the pressure of lylo, but I am working on a case. Regfan has told me he will be away from the site before deadline so we might be voting today, I'm not sure yet.

Duplicity · Post Post #1104 (isolation #79) » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:47 pm

As G pointed out I'm going to have highly limited internet access for the next few days, I'll make an effort to get on, read and catch up with this game whenever possible otherwise G is going to have to take control. I strongly believe that TS is still the optimal lynch even though our last conversation ended with his suggestion of lynching between FS/LL but reading through them again today I'm nowhere near certain on either of them being scum.

G, I likely won't be able to see you online until near deadline but my thoughts are exactly these: I strongly believe Pros is town and TS is scum. I have a slight town-read on LL due to his interaction with TS. I still read FS/TS's interactions as something that initially would make me doubt them as partners, however FS/TS is more likely than LL/TS. Therefore my personal vote preference order is: Twistedspoon > Farside > Locke > Pros.

Duplicity · Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:42 am

Yeah, enoughs enough. Twisted just logged in, posted in all of his games and /inn'ed for new games without even a slight bit of effort shown in this one even though it's lylo and deadline is near.

Consider this post as me showing intention to vote Twistedspoon if I log on again before the deadline.

Duplicity · Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:49 am

1) It's not an assumption, it's a fact you've shown no care for this care at all.

2) If it's scum-driven who's the scum driving it other than Locke?

3) My mind isn't completly made up, especially with G disagreeing with me therefore saying 'gg' is seriously pointless. If you're town you need to show it, you need to show effort to scumhunt you need to stay why you're not a good lynch apart from saying 'i'm town'

Duplicity · Post Post #1112 (isolation #82) » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:31 pm

Just logged on hoping to see lots of material knowing that it's only

20 hours until the deadline

to find close to nothing, not liking this at all.

Duplicity · Post Post #1113 (isolation #83) » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:10 pm

VC 2.1 further proves my belief that EA+Farside can't be scum together. I don't see them piling on a legitimate cop claim with NE knowing full well that even if TS managed to get lynched NE would be lynched the following day forcing them both to have to explain their votes. What's utterly frustrating is that G continues to disbelief and doubt the strength I have in the TS-scum read and is insistant upon lynching elsewhere today.

I believe G is currently in the process of putting together which should be up later today. Under no circumstances should a no-lynch occur, doing so forces tommorow into a position similar to now where nothing is produced and everyone wonders around until deadline with us likely being night-killed.

Duplicity · Post Post #1115 (isolation #84) » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:14 pm

I'm leaning that way at the moment, only slighty though.

G is much more contempt with a FS lynch and considering I'm having difficulty managing to persuade him to vote TS it's likely FS will get or vote.

Duplicity · Post Post #1117 (isolation #85) » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:05 pm

Prosaurus: If you think it's farside, vote farside, then. It's what I'm going to do. Here's why.

#157 by farside is weak distancing, says they don't like NE's case, no real follow up with NE

#257 comes off with a town-read on M=W and names a bunch of stuff she doesn't like about NE's posting, but gives a null/uncertain read without really justifying the uncertainty. Both NEvil and farside dart around commenting on each other's alignments through day 1. Notable to recall that NEvil was pushing TS and prosaurus for a lynch day 1. I'm not dismissing the possibility of bussing but I do think it's worth bringing up .

next mentions of M=W's alignment come when he suddenly becomes the lynch target for day 1: #454 and #501 where suddenly his recent posting is scummy, no mention of prior towntells despite claiming to want to re-read him. Additionally, she puts an FOS on NE while hopping on the same wagon as him. Basic, fairly played-out scumtell, but to me it still looks fairly valid. criticizing the vote of someone on the same wagon on you doesn't make sense as town and given M=W flipped town and NE flipped scum it looks really bad.

Day 2 flip-flops on NE/TS lynch, argues on lynching TS pretty hard when the tide looks like it'll turn his way, and ends up stuck on TS at the end of the day. #734 by maxous does a good job summarizing this. response by farside in #762 looks weak in hindsight.

Hops on the maxous lynch as self-preservation, she never provides much of a reasoning for thinking maxous as scum

In regfan's own words he's uncomfortable with farside's play today, not sure what his exact words were but she's been pretty...reserved(?) about today's lynch (hate to be vague but it's the best I've got)

I know this is way late to be putting out a case but if we end up no-lynching, I want farside dead tomorrow. I keep disagreeing with Regfan on TS, it just looks like a trap to me, although setup spec keeps biting me that his claim shouldn't make sense I'm feeling like trying to outguess the mod is less effective than what my read of the game is telling me. Regfan has basically compromised with me on this.

VOTE: farside

Duplicity · Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:20 pm

Twisted just claimed scum.

Unvote

Duplicity · Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:21 pm

I don't fucking care what G thinks or feels about Twisted anymore there's no way he would ask if it was his win upon hammering Farside.

Vote: Twistedspoon

Duplicity · Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:26 pm

Apologies for the triple post but I feel it's needed to point out that the fact he said that upon hammering Farside also means that Farside is town making his partner Locke. Locke is going to cry when he reads this.

Duplicity · Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:02 am

Quilford wrote:Congratulations,
Twistedspoon.
Farside

You now have a clear going into lylo regardless of what happens.

And ftr 1) It's almost certainly LL and 2) I do believe this means I was right on my LL read some time back

Fixed.

Duplicity · Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:06 am

Oh. I see, I thought you were congralulating Farside on being the remaining clear.

Duplicity · Post Post #1133 (isolation #91) » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:04 am

farside22 wrote:You F*&ing people don't want to listen to me day 3..........grrrrrrrrrr

Very much not true. I wanted TS lynched D3, G just made me compromise with a Maxous lynch and I somehow crumbled and compromised with him again today. Now that you're here though mind placing your vote on TS considering he scum-claimed?

Duplicity · Post Post #1136 (isolation #92) » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:24 am

Ah, my bad. Alright, in case we do get shot tonight I want to summarize my thoughts:

1) Farside is essentially confirmed town right now.
2) I still have a strong town-read on Pros, his interactions with TS make me think it's unlikely that they're partners, especially his interaction when LL was getting voted.
3) Please don't fuck this game up.

Duplicity · Post Post #1144 (isolation #93) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:23 pm

Don't worry neither of us are in the mood for rushing the day regardless of how strong we believe it's you so you're free to take your time. I do wish for you to explain how TS's actions yesterday make him likely to be scum with Farside though because I can't see it at all.

Duplicity · Post Post #1147 (isolation #94) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:04 pm

Prosaurus wrote:Yeah, I just thought of a problem.
FS is almost confirmed town from what TS did, but so is LL.
So who's scum? This almost makes me think TS did it on purpose.

What makes you believe that LL is town from TS's actions? Is it the fact that they were pushing at each other during a point at yesterday? If you read through it again you'll notice while both were pushing against the other they were leaving themselves open to vote in other avenues, examples of this included:

1) LL creating a case against you, leaving a chance to move there if someone was doubt over you being town.
2) LL stating that FS was LL's partner giving him an opportunity to vote FS had the time came, which it almost did.
3) TS initially pushing on you saying your day talk was a 'slip' allowing him a chance to move to you.
4) TS stating that FS/LL is scum giving him a chance to vote FS had the time come, as he did when it did come.

The more and more iread into Pros, the more and more I'm sure he's town. I believe he'd show no issues or problems voting or suspecting LL as scum in this case and I'm yet to see any possibly way that TS/FS hammer-interaction ressembles a partnership in anyway. I'll await LL's case though.

Duplicity · Post Post #1149 (isolation #95) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:43 pm

Locke Lamora wrote:There's one major problem with TS 'hammering'; there's a votecount
on the same page
. Anyone think he wouldn't have checked a votecount and the votes properly when they were in the previous 20 posts? I'd say it's plausible that he forgot it was 4 to lynch, except we'd already had that discussion earlier in the day when I voted for him. So there are really two possibilities: TS is an awful scum player with an atrocious memory who failed to read the very page on which he made that vote, or he 'hammered' for show because people were leaning towards a TS-FS scumteam. Given that they planned that NE gambit, the latter sounds like a distinct possibility.

I can agree that it is possible that it was an attempted gambit however I do believe he is

an awful scum player

and therefore find the likelyhood of him pulling that gambit very low. The post prior to his vote and slip was made by Gorilla and essentially stated his disagreement with a TS scum-read, so what motivation does TS as scum have to confirm himself as scum when there's a reasonable chance he wouldn't get lynched throughout the game?

Locke Lamora wrote:1. If you actually read my posts on D3, it's quite clear that I doubt TS's claim. But then I've explained all this already, so it looks like Farside has not read my D4 play either.
2. She overplayed my Duplicity suspicion ever since I said it. I basically said that I thought Oso's interactions with TS looked most plausible as a buddy. I was quite clearly doing a lot of rereading and reviewing of my suspicions and I quite clearly stated that I found Duplicity's play to be pro-town. This was reinforced throughout the course of yesterday. Guess what? Inconsistency is not a scumtell.

1. Although I can agree she's overselling your avoidance of TS on day 3 she is correct in saying your stance on him changed massively coming into day four.
2. I can agree with you here, you never outright stated suspicion of our slot merely stated a possible connection and proceeded to rule it out.

Locke Lamora wrote: 1. There are so many reasons against the idea of this slot being on a scumteam with TS. EA goes after TS when Javert still has a vig shot available and STRONGLY ADVOCATES HIS DEATH.
2. EA starts the day by going after Oso (hint: this is not indicative of having knowledge of a planned strategy) then initially pushes TS (roleblocker) over NE (goon) after the guilty claim.
3. The fact that I pushed for TS's lynch for most of yesterday tells you all you need to know. It would be a massive, massive waste of the one reason people actually thought TS was town (the guilty) for me to push his lynch the way I did. No doubt Farside will say this is all WIFOM coming from me. So I ask you all to read it. Read EA. Read me. Read TS. If you honestly think those interactions look like those of buddies, there's not a lot I can do to help you.

1. This is an exaggeration of what he actually says, he states support for a TS shot while stating support for another person universally FoS'ed to be vigged, here's what he says exactly: FWIW I support vigging Klazam or Twistedspoon and am against vigging Ender, Prosaurus, MeWeird, NEvil, or farside (or me obv obv).
2. His push on Oso matches up with his push on Oso the previous day and was something he would

have

to do regardless of allignment. The fact that TS is a roleblocker and NE is a goon is

meaningless

considering there are no other pr claims in the game and scum would know this would likely be the case due to previous claims.
3. Farside and I both pushed TS's lynch similarly to how you did on the prior day and on the same day that you did however you seem to be content stating this as a reason to you being town but not a reason why Farside is town.

Instead of attempting to show how interaction between TS and yourself is unlikely I would much rather you put forward a case as to why FS/TS's interaction is likely.

Duplicity · Post Post #1155 (isolation #96) » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:28 am

Hope everything works out at home Farside. You can take your time putting it all together, we're no particular rush.

Duplicity · Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:21 pm

farside22 wrote:dup and pro: Is there any reason either of you have not put for a case on anyone?
I'm looking a pro more on this.

Dup I still have a town read on you but your lack of effort today and just waiting in the wings is very off setting for me.

I don't particulary understand your doubting or suspicion towards. Putting aside his interactions with Twisted which make him near-obvious town his insistance that Locke isn't scum at the start of the day doesn't exactly make sense as scum. He would know that his only way at winning would be by us msylnching and ruling out Locke leaves his only msylnch option to be us someone that he and the rest of the room had stated a town-read on and unwillingness to lynch.

Our minds over who we're likely to vote was made up a long time ago. We've mentioned multiple times that we see no realistic way for Pros to be scum with Twisted and I don't believe that Twisted was attempting to gambit with his actions yesterday making you town. All up we're near certain that Locke is scum however out of respect I always like to hear everyone out completely incase I've missed something and am indeed incorrect. His recent actions haven't shown us that at all, I've typed up a response to his previous post but kept it in our quick topic as I was considering waiting until his anaylsis was complete before posting however I may as well post it now.

Locke wrote: Prosaurus: does not review TS's play. At all. It's quite astounding how he manages to repeatedly ignore TS scumming up the thread, actually, and he's pretty much the same with NE. I don't really know what to make of this extreme avoidance, but the fact that Pro's scumhunting is generally way off base does muddy the waters somewhat.

Earlier you mentioned that their avoidance or interactions makes it almost certain that they're not partners, how has this changed in your anaylsis now. You're attempting to say their avoidance reads as awkward and likely to be as partners without openely stating if you believe it's the case or not.

Locke wrote: Farside: I'm kind of going back and forwards on this one. There are multiple pushes on TS, which give me an overall townread, but I perceive a lack of follow-up on the slot at times which makes me a little more worried. Overall I get a stronger townread than the other two do based on interactions, but the repeated questions based on TS with a lack of connections being drawn almost look as though Farside wants people to think that other players are being inconsistent towards TS without drawing that conclusion herself, and that I don't like.

You've completly changed your stance here. You stated previously that the conclusion of yesterday only makes sense as a gambit attempt by TS and that therefore Farside was mafia however this entire paragraph leads to the conclusion that you don't believe she's mafia at all.

Locke wrote: Oso: not feeling good about this slot at all now. It's the hesitation over the vote followed by the sudden adamance that TS is not getting lynched that does it for me. It doesn't make sense for Ender to flip 1-shot cop and for Oso to suddenly want to believe TS more than he did before. His timing of TS suspicion is pretty inconclusive and TS' interactions with him are almost entirely based on meta and suggest a desire to change his opinion at the drop of a hat. The NE interactions are not big, and Oso comes out pretty firmly with a townread, which does seem more honest (if misplaced) and reassures me more than his TS interactions do.

1. If you believe it doesn't make sense for Oso to believe TS more due to Enders flip does that mean you believe that TS and Enders roles should have directly contradicted and therefore led TS to be highly suspected? Becuase that's the angle you're pushing with this however not once throughout the entirety of this game have you discussed Ender and TS's role relations.

2. You're refraining from taking a stance here, you state Oso's interactions are likely to be paired with TS but unlikely to be paired with NE which means essentiall you're saying you've gained and drawn nothing from your anaylsis.

Duplicity · Post Post #1162 (isolation #98) » Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:40 am

farside22 wrote:I understand the TS connection. The rest of what you saying here is a bit confusing to me.
Also I get paranoid and feel the need to reevaluate things. I never feel things are clear cut.

I'll attempt to explain it again. Scum-Pros would KNOW that the only way he could win if one of You/Locke/Me were lynched. Pros came into today stating that he believed you and Locke were town, therefore Scum-Pros came into the day believing the most likely way he could win was getting us lynched. He hasn't attempted to do so at all. In other words, what does Scum-Pros gain from defending Locke earlier if he doesn't attempt to push elsewhere?

Duplicity · Post Post #1165 (isolation #99) » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:39 pm

Reasoning for Pros being town is as follows: I don't think NE was double-bussing. I know I was wrong about him once before (ugh) but if you take a look at all of day 1, he votes TS over Pros - and TS was scum power. Also further proof of pros-town is this votecount:

Final Vote Count:
Day Three

Maxous

(5): Locke Lamora, Duplicity, farside22,

Rhinox

,

Quilford

farside22 (3)

Maxous

,

Twistedspoon

, Prosaurus

pros wouldn't double up with TS here, especially since the maxous wagon would have to be all town. If that's a town wagon, I'm an anime princess.

Regfan is busy so I'm probably going to be posting a case on LL in the next few days.

Duplicity · Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:02 pm

Locke, I completely understand that it was your D1 anaylsis I'm just failing to understand the lack of conclusions you attempted to draw at the end of the D1 anaylsis. Instead of outright saying; I believe the D1 anaylsis leads the last mafia to be X you've said that it increases the likelyhood of Y and X both being mafia. In other words you've attempted to leave yourself open to attack multiple avenues while pointing back to this anaylsis for reasoning.

In regards to your changed read on Farside, I'm finding it difficult to believe that you hadn't reached this conclusion much earlier. Surely you would have checked this thread at some time post-hammer when you see people ruling out the Farside/TS theory and suggesting that you're mafia; what made you hesitant to read through their ISO's at this point to see if it was indeed unlikely for them to be partners or not.

If you find Osos shift in opinion about TS to be scummy I would question why you never mentioned it earlier in the game, lack of reasoning behind his change of opinion would be a scum-tell regardess of TS's allignment. The answer is that Osos shift of opinion are very deeply explained and you're attempting to create some form of linkage between his actions and TS that isn't there.

Oso strongly believed TS was mafia due to the nature of his play and explained so in Post #282, this was changed via an explanation over the '1-shot theme' elaborated on in Post #300 by Juls and rementioned in Post #304 by Oso. Furthermore if you believe the shift of opinion from believeing Twistedspoon to elsewhere to be scummy I find it odd that you've completly ignored the fact that EA your predecessor moved from stating that TS should be vigged to attempting to push a lynch towards Oso while ignoring TS completly.

Cut: I don't have time to read through your post just yet Farside however I'll make time to later.

Duplicity · Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:10 pm

Farside, if what you're essentially trying to say is that he's left his options open at various times unexplainably then yes, I agree completly. The fact he put a case up against Pros yesterday while stating he highly suspected TS and didn't find them to be possible or likely partners shows this. I would disagree with you believing his push on TS yesterday was big. He had limited options towards who he could push against due to players suspecting Pros/Myself and you to a degree minimally. That leaves him with few choices. Joining in the TS-is-scum wagon makes perfect sense for him to do in that position as scum, it gains him town-cred and puts him further into the game where he can attempt to make use of that.

Pros, if by ganging up you mean suspecting yes. You really need to start providing some reasonable content though, for example who do you current suspect, and why?

Duplicity · Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:51 am

Locke, my point isn't that you're fencesitting moreso that you're attempting to draw far too few conclusions from your previous anaylsis. The entire point of doing an anaylsis is to gain a better view of the occurances of the game leading towards an increased likelihood to make a decision. Your post where you state your thoughts about the anaylsis had near-none of this. Stating that you were a replacement into the game and always catching up therefore unable to noticy some things before is meaningless, I myself was a replacement however replacing into the game leads you with the massive

need

to catch yourself up with everything therefore again I don't understand it being brought up earlier. Furthermore, you didn't attempt to explain your lack of reading or looking through the led post-flip so I pose this question to you now: After the flip had occured what were your actions when it came to this game, ISO'ing people, reading through the day again, closing it and waiting for day?

I've already gone through Osos actions once however for I'll re-touch on it for you, Osos intial reaction and opinon was that TS was scum, this was decreased heavily not by Enders flip but by Jul's mention and Oso realization of TS's '1-shot theme' excuse in which led to him reading the slot as town. I don't expect you to attempt to create a case against yourself over EA's reactions to TS either however you're strongly attempting to push the point Oso suspected TS at point 1, but not at point 2 while ignoring the same actions were shared by nearly the entire room with notable players include doing so including EA, Juls and Maxous.

Pros, again I urge you to provide more content, I have a good feeling I know where you're standing right now in the game however the lack of content you're providing in this game is immensely frustrating - I'm not asking you to replace out because it would be fruitless this late in the game however re-read the game and state what your scum-read on LL is based around with the exception of process of elimination.

Duplicity · Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:57 am

I believe it needs to be pointed out that there's currently four days until the deadline and I'm not in the particular mood for another deadline-rush vote with the potential risk of this going into a no lynched day with Farside dying at night. I'm going to have a lengthy discussion with G later tonight with all likelihood being that we'll end up placing our vote on Locke at some point tommorow.

Duplicity · Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:07 pm

No problem Locke, I understand that frustration is part of the game and have myself experienced severe frustration and anger in past games at some point or another. If anything I found your level of frustration shown to be tame and minimal. Although I can understand real life taking it's toll thus removing the opportunity or chance to read through this game again I'm unsure why you didn't stop to consider the fact the TS-FS interaction to be, well not a gambit. Surely my posts stating that Farside was essentially clear would have been going through your mind.

Again though I will ask you what you're attempting to say by Oso's actions. In what way would refraining from voting Me=Weird a town player be considered a scum-tell. At that point of the day and game very few viable lynch wagons where presented and with NE and TS both being suggested at some point or another wouldn't his inclination be to attempt to start some force on the Me=Weird lynch had he been mafia rather than to stand back and refrain from pushing a particular lynch. I know this may be a large ask however I feel given the current situation it's highly needed. Locke can you get through your D2 and D3 anaylsis as quickly as possible preferably in the next 48 hours or so because nothing that's been said thus far during the day has convinced me to not vote you.

Duplicity · Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:49 pm

I'm going to take the rest of the day to properly read through this and have a discussion with G however my first impression of it is that it reads as an incredibly weak attempt at pushing towards Pros for his lack of commitment or experience rather than him actually acting in a scummy manner. Don't get me wrong I understand and accept that he has played in an anti-town manner throughout some of the game and realize that doing so certaintly isn't s town-tell but at the same time his actions make no sense give the situation that has occured.

To further that I'm finding it difficult believing that Twistedspoon, NE and Prosarus three players that were all suspected planned a day two buss, it makes no sense whatsoever to do because all three had a degree of suspicion cast against them at the time. This means the entire point of the buss would be to attain town-cred and that would be the only reason to do it, if this was the reason why did Pros refrain from voting himself. Flipping it around I can see EA suggesting to buss in that situation and his actions makes perfect sense being the final scum member - He changed his opinion very quickly when the wagon changed.

Duplicity · Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:23 am

Pros, the only logical reasoning behind TS doing that on purpose is that he's mafia with Farside, any other reason would be idiotic as they'd just have had to wait until FS was hammered to win, thereby by saying that you believe it was on purpose means you're saying Farside is mafia which I strongly doubt.

I'm currently in the middle of my exam period at university so G is going to need to step in and take control here, especially with two days until the deadline. G, this is me openely stating that I would be comfortable with a Locke vote at the present moment.

Duplicity · Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:50 am

Uh, consider it cold feet or last minute uncertaintly but I need to read into LL's wall more before I want G to place a vote now.

Mod, is there any chance we can get a 24 hour extention so I have sufficent time to read through this after my Law final exam?

Duplicity · Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:02 pm

I am way late on this but here's why I think Locke's slot is scum based on EA's interactions with TS and NE:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2930039

NE's first serious vote in the game is a soft defense of EA, where he votes Oso for his early case on EA. He also adds the statement "Any suspicion regarding that vote depends on EA being scum, and it's too early to tell that especially since Oso's case on EA is so weak." To me this reads as him denying the possibility that anyone should think his teammate is scum that early in the game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2933454
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2934281

Oso drops his vote on Erratus Apathos in post #124. NE's next content post is #151, where he hops his vote over to the rapidly growing ender wagon. ender was obviously a target of opportunity, but it looks like NE stops attacking Oso once he stops putting pressure on his teammate.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2934764
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2935932
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2937430
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2938647
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2939317

#156 by EA is where he votes NE, but it's a very weak vote. He "suspects" NE was "looking for a reason to jump on the Ender wagon". NE's response in #159 is meek, tells EA he "misunderstands" his reasoning. Exchange continues with #188, #192, and concludes with #200. The whole thing looks like weak distancing overall. Compare EA's tone here with his tone when addressing his other suspicions, and you can see how soft he was being on NE and how quickly he backed down.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2948927
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2973691

After ender's claim on page 9, TS and NE start hard-bussing each other, and EA jumps on pushing TS. In #308 he says he doesn't care about TS's claim and he still believes he's scum, even after everyone else has moved on because of his claim - it gives me the feeling that he was working with inside information. At the same time, he hops off to push lynching klazam or oso more, and TS barely argues with him. The most he interacts with him is to comment of EA's hammer of M=W in #546, but even then he doesn't directly attack him for hammering without a claim.

Knowing now that the lynch day 2 was between two scum, I see no reason their teammate would be cautious with their vote, as prosaurus was - they know that they'll look good on whatever wagon the lynch is, and EA flips freely from TS to NE in the middle of the day. Neither TS nor NE directly argue with EA on day 2, as shown by a skim from page 23 onward.

That's the major part of why I believe LL's slot to be scum off d1/d2, I can go into why I think pros is town but it's really late right now. Apologies if the formatting is messy.

Duplicity · Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:06 pm

Actually, I'll post one right now:

Prosaurus wrote:You guys just picked me up and ripped me in half.
If I don't hammer, I could be called scum for not lynching or stalling.
If I do hammer, I could be called scum for not having an opinion of my own and using the excuse of "They told me to".
Don't know whether to hammer now or not. If I hammer, I'll do it tomorrow.

That's from day 2 just before NE self-hammers. With this whole bus between TS and NE obviously being pre-planned, I don't see why pros-scum would fence-sit with a teammate at L-1.

Also, I think I forgot something in my last post:

VOTE: Locke Lamora

Duplicity · Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:29 am

I'm currently on my way to my university final exam with this game page saved on my laptop and no internet connection so I'll attempt to post it the second I arrive. My unvote is only temporary and it's likely to go back up later however I don't want any possible blitz occuring while I'm not even able to acess this game.

Unvote

For the record - I won't actually have time to read this thread upon entering university, just submiting this post meaning it's entirely possible that the hammer has already occured rendering this post useless, if so then I want to say regardless of the result I had a very enjoyable game and I apologize if I am indeed incorrect.

Locke, don't get me wrong I highly appreciate the copious amount of effort you've put forth throughout this game however I'm unsure how you can attempt to say that we're not looking at the situation objectively and playing stupid. You yourself yesterday openely stated that Twistedspoon and Prosarus were unlikely to be partners and have now turned around to push the opposite today. Sure, there's a chance that you might be correct in it being Pros but place yourself in our position before you attempt to vent and act frustrated at us. We've had a strong town-read on Pros throughout a large portion of the game, indendant of Twistedspoon. Now with Twistedspoons flip our belief that Prosarus is mafia decreases even more while viewing Farside as almost obvtown. To further that of our vote on you is placed by more than just PoE, Gorilla provided excessive reasoning in the final post of the last page however you seem content to dismiss that instantly.

The point you've placed forward in regards to you being Twistedspoons least likely partner is completely incorrect, your reasoning behind it is highly flawed and involves EA's slight suspicion and recommendation that Twistedspoon gets vigged in a position where it was near certain that Javert was going to stick with his inital instict and shoot Ender. Instead of actually presenting reasoning of actions behind Prosarus's play that you believe are scummy you're attempting to push the fact that his play has been anti-town but not scummy.

Duplicity · Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:05 pm

Locke, it's not that I haven't attempted to re-read through the game attempting to drop the town-read I have on Pros. It's that every time I read through it I have trouble picturing him as the final mafia, furthermore attempting to compare the town-read I had on you prior to yesterday with the town-read I have on Pros is meaingless as the town-read I had on you was heavily reduced by Gorillas suspicion of you.

I read Pros's change of action and reasoning yeseterday in regards to his view on TS as geninue to a degree because he just like and I are used PoE to narrow it down increasing the likelihood that TS was mafia. I'm going to spend the night to mull over it and I should have my thoughts collected and together by morning ie. Several hours before the deadline.

Duplicity · Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:14 am

This sucks, I'm not even going to be up or online again before the deadline. Gorilla, I know you're going to read this and hate me but the decision and actions are completely up to you now, I'm still leaning towards Locke being the final scum.

Duplicity · Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:55 pm

Despite the loss this was actually one of my most enjoyable games on the site thus far and I have to congratulate the scum team especially Farside and Twistedspoon for playing such a good game, the gambit at the end there really threw me of and won the game for you guys.

I'll have my more detailed thoughts on the game up later tonight.

Duplicity · Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:49 am

I'm going to take a second to publically apologise to Gorilla because I did indeed give him quite a lot of shit for his vote on Farside just after the gambit occured and TwistedSpoon flipped scum. Alright, moving on:

Twistedspoon, your gambits (1-Shot Wise, Cop Claim and your 'Did I win') were genius and game winning and allowed your scummy behaviour to go unnoticed by many an amazingly long time. I feel bad for undestimating and insulting you because given how the game played out I would love to be on a scum-team with you again at some point in the future.

Farside, the way you managed to hold up throughout a large portion of the game was remarkable, especially your somehow nature town nature and frustration shown after the Twistedspoon flip. Had I been in a three way with you and LL I unfortunatly would have to admit that all likelihood is that I would have hammered incorrectly and given you the win.

Locke, I'm sorry man. I really am, I just wasn't seeing the Pros case at all for obvious reasons now and my insistant suspicion of you is something I'm slightly ashamed of because you stood your ground and defended yourself well, I would for another chance to play in a game with you in the future.

Pros, you really need to pick up in your content and actvity in future games, without meaning to sound cruel in any way I believe your playstyle would be greatly enhanced by playing a few more newbie games just to get you into the hang of things properly, with some experience you could be a good player.

Maxous, you're the other person I have to apologise towards, your lynch was a compromise based lynch because I was getting no support for a Twisted lynch apart from Farside who lol was scum. I've very much enjoyed both games I've played with you and would really enjoy a third, the same can be said towards Rhinox. You're a good player that uses logic well and in the right game would dominate.

Quilford, I'm really glad that you stopped lurking and actually started reassesing your actions throughout day two, you've a lot to learn as do I but I believe you will make for a great player in the future.

If anyone has any advice or critism in regards to my play this game I would love to hear it because if anything this game shows me that I haven't perfectly the hydra experience or my town play yet.