Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

[GreyICE]

Vote: Hiraki

He knows why.

[GreyICE]

mastin2 ( 6 ) - Toon Fighter, Tomie Uzumaki, Maxous, malpascp, Phoebus, hiplop

Two scum minimum, bookmark it.

[GreyICE]

mastin2 ( 6 ) - Toon Fighter,

Tomie Uzumaki

, Maxous, malpascp, Phoebus, hiplop

Two scum minimum, bookmark it.

Let me give you a hint. Bold is Better.

How 'bout a vote, Grey?

Hmmmmmm, nah. I have a gut scum read on Hikari, and I don't feel as certain about Tomie as you.

[GreyICE]

Almighty Vote Thingy

(Still in Purple)

Now with appropriate imagery:

[GreyICE]

8 players out of 20, 1-2 scum. Ya don't say.

[GreyICE]

Vote: Hiplop

Grey, I still have no meta so you're wrong.

Btw. he's scum.

Did you like read my signature? Why would I give a shit about your meta?

My gut just says scum.

[GreyICE]

@GreyICE: yeah, when you meta someone, the mod PMs him a town role.

The above statement is true.

[GreyICE]

And here... GreyIce is quite obviously pointing out that meta is shit, and shouldn't be used. Because people who don't really pay attention to meta wont notice things anyway, and likely aren't even worrying about playing the same way every time. However, people who ARE thinking about meta would also be able to change up how they place to match a town meta every time anyway. Thus, following meta leads to mislynching town more often than it leads to lynching scum. Which is a fair point to make. Thus, meta is pointless to follow.

Plus, some people's meta changes based on role. You wouldn't expect someone with a VT role this game to play exactly the same if they have a cop role in the next one. Thus, while they're both town roles, they're different roles entirely. So if you've played with someone for 4 games with them as a VT, and suddenly they're playing differently, you lynch them based on meta, only to find you've just offed the town cop.

Also, it's the worst form of confirmation bias. People read a player, and think 'he's probably scum, lemme check meta.' Then they go read a random town game and a random scum game, and decide that he's doing X and Y, which he did in the scum game, and isn't doing Z which he did in the town game.

Basically, I'm just going to lynch anyone who tries to use meta as their entire argument, or who argues they're town because of meta.

[GreyICE]

Vote: Pine

As I promised.

[GreyICE]

Alright, fuck all of you.

If I see "gut" as a reason one more time, I will murder all of you at night.

If you use gut as a reason for a vote,

there is a 100% guarantee that you are probably not town.

This is pissing me off.

UR SCUM

[GreyICE]

Can people please stop wasting their votes?

Fair enough

Vote: Hiraki

Back on scum!

[GreyICE]

Vote Toonfighter

Holy shit. Just holy fucking shit. I'm going to dissect this to explain all the various ways ToonFighter has failed to pretend he's town. Frankly, this is just 80% for amusement value because the only sane reaction to that post is to vote for him.

1) Tomie ISO: He seems town enough. I agree with him that

Mastin's early game list is useless

, but mastin looks town to me, his play style so far is similar to his previous games as town.

I think he is asking good and pertinent questions, and is proving a good town player so far.

Okay, lets look at the summary of Mastin, as provided by TF in his post about Tomie (if warning bells aren't going off already, then you're doing it wrong).

- List is useless
- Asking good and pertinent questions
- Good town player

so far

This is what Mastin has asked:

#78 (in response to tomie's #73)

Do you see anything in here which looks like it's coming from the mindset of a pro-town player?
...No?
Yeah, me neither.

For the record, if you call me town, you too can earn a free pass into my town reads. It's that simple. Do it.

@zMuffin: Seriously?

Seriously? You see this guy as town?

GreyICE's 'logic': People using meta are scum. (Or if not scum, policy lynches.) You used meta to clear me. (Faulty, by the way, since I picked up the tactic from Nacho when we were scum in Outdoorsmen Mafia 2. ) Therefore, you're scum. (Or if not scum, at least voteworthy.)

This is a fair assessment, no?

What is a Rhetorical Question, Alex?

MASTIN HASN'T ASKED ANY SERIOUS QUESTIONS YET!

That's the most obviously manufactured read I've seen in ages.

2) Hiplop ISO: His content seems to be very poor. He is also on the "mastin's lists are evil, kill mastin" group, but to me, the motivation behind his attacks on mastin seem scum-driven. He is providing little content and reasons for his attacks

and is not giving good defences against attacks on him.

He says mastin making lists trying to make him look town is scummy, but, if someone votes and accuses him for it, it isn't making him look town right?

He literally says Hiplop is an easy target in the same post he votes for him.

He. Says. He's. An. Easy. Mislynch. Then. Votes. For. Him.

Lets not mind that his reason for this vote is blatantly bullshit, as if we ignore Mastin's 'pertinent questions' the only reason for thinking that Mastin is town is the list WHICH HIPLOP CALLED HORRIBLE. We'll ignore that, because ToonFighter is voting based on who he thinks isn't very able to defend themselves.

3) Edmund ISO: Very few posts, too many votes. I don't really see if his posts intentions come from scum or town, but it could be some scum looking for an early wagon to ride to an easy mislynch. But it could also just be a cautious townie. I need to see more posts from him to decide better.

I

could

be convinced to hop on this wagon if it gets just a wee bigger!

ISO #3:

Why is there a wagon building on mastin?

ISO #1:

vote: mastin

for past game shenanigans

Unvotes before ISO #3: Zero


So he is confused there's a wagon on the player he's... voting for. Oh my god this thing needs rope.

Hiraki's still scum, but he'll keep. This is staring me in the face right here, right now. Hiraki's combination aggression and passive-aggressive posts with 'helpful' "oh I is so town" posts like bitching about people gut voting.

Also this statement:

If you use gut as a reason for a vote, there is a

100% guarantee

that you are

probably

not town.

I'll give you a 199% guarantee that Hiraki's probably a scumbag whose decided that aggressive play and tactical scumplaining are the way he'll live in this one.

[GreyICE]

Hiraki's still scum, but he'll keep. This is staring me in the face right here, right now. Hiraki's combination aggression and passive-aggressive posts with 'helpful' "oh I is so town" posts like bitching about people gut voting.

One post.

You're full of shit, you know that?

The only thing you have on me at the moment, with

nothing

about anything prior where you actually called me scum, for reasons other than meta.

Grey, why is Hiplop not scum?

YOU'RE PISSED I WANT YOU LYNCHED

FOR THE WRONG REASONS.

YOU'RE NOT PISSED I MISREAD YOU YOU'RE PISSED BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE MY METHODS OF CORRECTLY READING YOU.

ROFLMAO AT THE IDEA YOU'RE TOWN. ROFLMAO AT THE IDEA I CARE ABOUT HIPLOP RIGHT NOW.

[GreyICE]

@GreyICE: My post may be a bit confusing, but in 1) I was talking about Tomie. HE is the one asking good questions, not mastin. Regarding mastin, I just commented that his list was useless (unless he flips scum, then we could check there for possible buddies) and that he looks town.

Okay, what were Tomie's two best questions, and what did you learn from them?

[GreyICE]

@Mastin:

Pine is awesome. A fast growing tree, it can be used as a renewable replacement for old growth timber. With a maturity of 5-7 years, pine farms have largely replaced old-growth cutting for paper, construction lumber, and much wooden furniture. While slower growing than bamboo, it also needs less treatment to be usable and durable, and its soft nature makes it easy to use and carve. Fundamentally, a green alternative to many of the prior evils of logging, and a solid environmental product. I give it two thumbs up.

[GreyICE]

I explained it to you perfectly. Pine is a friendly environmental product. Two thumbs up. Would the environment really be trying to kill us?

Hikari, on the other hand, is definitely evil. Have you ever heard of a Hikari in its natural environment? No? Me either. It's unnatural man, the product of science allowed to roam out of control. Your blindness will kill us all!

The difference is really clear to those of us in tune with the natural vibe, man.

Also you're not voting for Toon Fighter, this means you're bad.

[GreyICE]

HEY MASTIN

I'M VOTING FOR TOONFIGHTER

WHAT THE FUCK IS THE POINT OF ASKING ME WHO IS MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM, HIKARI OR TOONFIGHTER? CAN YOU ADD, MASTIN? 2+2, WHICH DO YOU THINK IS MORE LIKELY?

THESE QUESTIONS MASTIN, THEY'RE USELESS MASTIN. WHAT IS THIS?

[GreyICE]

Alright, Grey. You answered the question of Toon/Hiraki well enough. ("They're both so obv-scum it's painful to watch them not get more votes." Is that a fair interpretation?)

NO DUDE

I'M VOTING FOR THE PERSON I THINK IS MOST LIKELY TO BE SCUM.

Want some Meta? Mastin has like, at least five brain cells. HOW THE FUCK DID YOU NOT SEE THIS ANSWER COMING?

You've given me two names you think are scum. (Hiraki and Toon.) There's likely five scum in this game.

Who else besides those two, do you suspect?

No one. I have inside info this is a two man scumteam.

Seriously Mastin, how is this question productive either? When I get more solid scumreads, I'll say them.

This is reeking of asking questions for the sake of asking questions. Mastin, this is worrying me. What are you learning from this exercise, Mastin?

[GreyICE]

He's asking for information.

He wants to know if you're town or not, FFS.

Oh.

I'm town.

Where's the staples easy button?

If he's asking me to make up some reads for him so I look townier, nope. Just don't care.

[GreyICE]

He wants to know if you're town or not.

^That. There's more to it than just that, though. I'll elaborate when I get the answers I want out of everyone I've asked questions for.

'kay, well, don't really have time to jump through your hoops.

I'll be not doing that, thx.

[GreyICE]

Grey. Don't make me employ the "reversal of my initial reads" on you.
Guess what my initial read on you was?

(Hint: it wasn't a scumread. And you can't reverse null-reads.)

Dude.

You asked me if the person I

wasn't

voting for was scummier than the person I

was

.

Don't waste my time dude. Those questions aren't productive.

[GreyICE]

Also, the Bowser Wagon needs to die.

Of my town-reads? You know, the super-awesome-ones which are usually correct?

Bowser's one of four names on that super-mega-town-read list.

MuffinMan
Torquez
Bowser
Maxous

They're all town. Trust me on this.

Huh, lemme think.

NO!

[GreyICE]

As you wish.

Unvote

Vote: Hiplop

[GreyICE]

Claim: 1-shot Lie Detector

. I used it on 182, and the mod told me hiplop was not lying.

Fucking go read the fucking normal roles the next time you fakeclaim in the large normal forum idiot.

Vote: Mastin

[GreyICE]

There is nothing in the normal rules against that role, Grey. It's an investigation-type role. It's also quite a weak ability.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Normal_Game

Roles which are explicitly Normal include:
Vanilla Townie, Sane Cop, Doctor, Vigilante, Roleblocker, Mason, Innocent Child, Jailkeeper, Tracker, Watcher, Gunsmith, Miller, Bodyguard, Role Cop, Doublevoter, Hider, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Jack of All Trades, Serial Killer, Mafia Goon, Mafia Traitor, Mafia Godfather, Mafia Framer, Mafia-aligned versions of above roles

Modifiers which are explicitly Normal include:
Even/Odd Night, Non-Consecutive Night, X-Shot, Bulletproof, Compulsive, Macho, Weak, Back-Up (with or without primary role present)

That's EXACTLY the sort of role that the normal games try to get away from. Like, what if Hiraki says "hiphop is scum." Does your lie detector get "False" if Hiiphop is town, true if he's scum? Or does it go off what Hiraki knows? What if I post a list of 5 names and say 1 or more is scum. Do we have five confirmed townies if you get 'false?'

It's a theme game ability, through and through.

[GreyICE]

Hey muffins, you town this game?

[GreyICE]

Hey muffins, you town this game?

Yup.

'kay, why is Mastin's claim a joke?

[GreyICE]

You are a threat - to the motherfucking town, if you're playing like this.

And I don't give a fucking shit about factions, it's pro town to lynch you.

[GreyICE]

Right.

So GreyICE.

Has resorted.

To wanting a Policy Lynch on me.

Yeah well, you apparently are hellbent on killing the fucking town, so if you're going to play like that, I'm gonna want you dead.

What the FUCK mastin?

[GreyICE]

Unvote

Vote: Hiplop

Please someone vig mastin

[GreyICE]

Did hiplop just claim scumbuddies with mastin?

[GreyICE]

I'm lynching from Mastin's town list today. It's the best way to hit scum.

[GreyICE]

440 is goodposting. vez is starting to look scum based on recent events (he jumped on the wagon on me after GI, now jumps onto hiplop's after him too). He should probably be paid more attention in this game, he could be scum.

mastin still looks town, and I prefer when he is making his reads and analysis instead of his random gambits and fakeclaims -.-

Dude you're so scum.

[GreyICE]

And you're on Mastin's town list.

You die. You die and are not resurrected.

Vote: Toon fighter

Fuck you, fuck that post. Fuck this entire mess. You're scum, you are obviously scum, and you deserve death.

[GreyICE]

Well you could start by BEING right, you derpface

[GreyICE]

I will pay someone money if the explain with any level of convincing why ToonFighter is scum.

I will pay mastin money if he's right about 50% of the bullshit he spouts.

Hikari is still scum so well

[GreyICE]

*is town

[GreyICE]

lawl@scum hiraki.

[GreyICE]

I got a possible solution,

tracker - target GreyICE tonight while he stabs things

Yah good idea I'll be sure to submit the night kill now.

Tracker - please do whatever the fuck you want.

[GreyICE]

I have some time now.

warriormode, I think that mastin's gambits are anti-town, and I also believe anti-town players are good lynches. So, I advocate that a mastin lynch could be a good lynch if he continues his stupid gambits -.- If he plays good town and doesn't make stupid gambits (Lie detector? come on) I believe he should not be our lynch.

I see there are cases on other players and some discussion around, but I don't have much time now. The next time I'm online I'll decide if I should change my vote or keep it on hiplop.

So this is who I'm voting for.

Why does everyone think he's town again? Run it by me reaaaaaal slow

[GreyICE]

These are two town wagons. Come lynch Toon Fighter with me.

Mastin's a tard, please vig him thx vig

[GreyICE]

But what are you going to do if he flips town?

Lynch Pine. GreyICE-Pine interactions were not townVtown, hence why I tried to encourage them further. The fact that I was unable to do so only solidified this as true.

So I thought I was scum and Pine was town why lynch Pine?

The arrogance is up at 14 for this game, but you're fucking EXCELLENT at content, Mastin.

I see none. No content. No content from Mastin. Lots of POSTING, but no content.

Why does this worry me Mastin.

[GreyICE]

Yo bitches i'm here to say
bowser wont flip scum today
if we lynch well go awry
but lynching hiplop by the by

not a bad idea its true
but watch hiraki run away from you
derail this lynch he isn't trying
but this bullshit you are buying

mastin's a scumbag count on it
throw him into a deep dark pit
if he's town its okay
he deserves to die any day

i laugh at these morons who think
i'd flip scum, as if
i never get a scum pm its true
i'm gonna stick ya in a zoo


hiraki is driving me insane
its like he has half a brain
he is scum yes yes yes
but shooting mastin is the best

no one wants to tell me toon fighter is town
no one votes him, my vote is sound
y'all are dumb, i can say
i'll outwit ya any day

if yur scum shoot me tonight
i'll be sure to mock you alright

replacements can suck my dick
my last mini had more posting than this shit
what the fuck is this noise
modkill em all, we hang with the boyz

[GreyICE]

VOTE TOONFIGHTER

Mastin give me ONE reason why we don't kill him. One. You can fucking bite me if it goes anything about your reputation, I saw pine your reputation is brown and smells

[GreyICE]

Meh whatever lets have this stupid day end plus its basically a win win

Vote: Pappum's Rat

Mastin can go suck my nuts though cause we're lynching toon fighter tomorrow.

[GreyICE]

Unvote

Vote: Toon Fighter

No

Just no

Toon dies. EVERY POST

[GreyICE]

GreyICE, what did you mean when you said it was "basically a win win"?

If you're town, Mastin gets an egg on his face, if you're scum wee scum lynch. You're probs not scum though.

Frankly ToonFighter is obviously scum and it's sad that people can't fucking read his posts and figure that out. A town this dumb deserves to lynch town day 1, maybe people will wake up and start trying, because they shouldn't get the positive reinforcement that this play was in any way acceptable.

[GreyICE]

Bowser's def town, EmpKing for the win.

I guess I'll compromise on Pappums if only to laugh forever at you.

Also my god there's 6 people who don't have less posts than the moderator you all should die

[GreyICE]

Nope my vote is on scum. Won't unvote until it's within 12 hrs of deadline.

Toonfighter lynch CAN HAPPEN.

[GreyICE]

@GI and zMuffin: Can you please vote for someone else than TF. It won't happen.

See this people?

He's like 'lol bunch of townies subtly suggest the scum lynch is impossible so people should vote town.'

Well no. Two people moving to ToonFighter from Pappums makes him the largest wagon. Would you vote for him then, Edmund?

Lets do it, edmund, explain why he's not scum, edmund.

Explain why your vote is in a better place.

Or move. it.

[GreyICE]

Vote ToonFighter and go VLA

[GreyICE]

Do not listen to Mastin on how to avoid VI status.

At this point in time if he claimed masons with a person I'd refuse to remove my vote because it's likely he's gambiting.

[GreyICE]

So no deadline.

Edmund.angles will now vote for ToonFighter or give me good solid reasons for believing he's town or I kill him today, and I WILL GET HIM LYNCHED.

[GreyICE]

I FUCKING HATE FUCKING EVERYONE

[GreyICE]

So like this game is dead until replacements + VLAs end, don't prod me

[GreyICE]

So obv scum is posting in the thread again, Mastin please fix your frontal lobotomy post haste.

Town vote for toon fighter now plox

[GreyICE]

fuck this how the fuck can you morons constantly not lynch obvious scum.

EmpKing is now scum, will vote to lynch him any time.

This is the last large normal I ever join on mafia scum, you intolerable fucktards cannot fucking get your fucking act together to lynch COMPLETELY OBVIOUS scum when Bowser is CLEARLY TOWN

[GreyICE]

He's not even PRETENDING he's town and the entire scumteam is going along with the 'well just don't say anything and pretend he's fine' and you townies are LETTING THEM

What is wrong with your little pea brains.

Edmund said that we have to unvote ToonFighter when he was voting for a small wagon himself because TOON FIGHTER IS HIS SCUM BUDDY.


And you fucking morons are fucking ignore that.

Can one person, ONE SINGLE PERSON in this thread explain why he's town? Maybe someone who isn't his FUCKING SCUM BUDDY?

[GreyICE]

*snip total nonsense*

No shut up and lemme learn ya something. When several people share very similar viewpoints it's an indication that one or more is town. Not an indication that all three are scum ESPECIALLY NOT ON DAY ONE YOU POTATO HEAD.

So you basically want to lynch people to confirm whether or not your pet theory is in some way functional rather than lynching scummy people.

RATHER THAN LYNCHING SCUMMY PEOPLE.

*headdesk*

SCUM LIKE A PLETHORA OF TARGETS NOT A NARROW SPREAD JESUS.

[GreyICE]

No Emp doesn't, I'm the town daycop and I daycopped him and he's town. So there.

[GreyICE]

Silly EmpKing, scum don't even bother to pretend they're town in this game.

[GreyICE]

MASTIN IS SCUM. HE HAS NO REASONS FOR HIS READS. VIG MASTIN VIG MASTIN
MASTIN IS SCUM. HE HAS NO REASONS FOR HIS READS. VIG MASTIN VIG MASTIN
MASTIN IS SCUM. HE HAS NO REASONS FOR HIS READS. VIG MASTIN VIG MASTIN
MASTIN IS SCUM. HE HAS NO REASONS FOR HIS READS. VIG MASTIN VIG MASTIN
MASTIN IS SCUM. HE HAS NO REASONS FOR HIS READS. VIG MASTIN VIG MASTIN
MASTIN IS SCUM. HE HAS NO REASONS FOR HIS READS. VIG MASTIN VIG MASTIN
MASTIN IS SCUM. HE HAS NO REASONS FOR HIS READS. VIG MASTIN VIG MASTIN
MASTIN IS SCUM. HE HAS NO REASONS FOR HIS READS. VIG MASTIN VIG MASTIN
MASTIN IS SCUM. HE HAS NO REASONS FOR HIS READS. VIG MASTIN VIG MASTIN
MASTIN IS SCUM. HE HAS NO REASONS FOR HIS READS. VIG MASTIN VIG MASTIN
MASTIN IS SCUM. HE HAS NO REASONS FOR HIS READS. VIG MASTIN VIG MASTIN



I swear unto god, mastin better be dead tomorrow or it's a serial killer claim if there's anyone doing extra killing.

[GreyICE]

I have reasons.
They're Interactions, Motive, and Tone.
With lots of sub-sets, of course. Motive also has "Mind-set", "Reasoning", "Outlook", and "Intention". Tone also has "Natural" and "Artificial".

Scum interactions are painfully obvious, scum outlook on the game is quite evident, scum tone is making me hurt because of how blatant it is.

If you must know, I've been devoting an unhealthy amount of time to a place our replacer is aware of. That ate up endless hours of time, to the point where I've been sacrificing my play site-wide for it. Since it's momentarily over, that means that I finally have the time to play here.

And, hey.

Longer you wait, better the reward. (When I unleash my reads, I hold nothing back.)

Yeah, that was a lot of theory. DIE IN A FUCKNIG FIRE


VIG SHOOT THIS LUMP


@EmpKing: Toonfighter jesus is it not obvious?

[GreyICE]

No, I'm saying I want mastin shot in the head.

[GreyICE]

unvote, vote: hiplop

A lynch is better than a no-lynch

Translation: Someone knows which way Hiplop is flipping, oh yes.

[GreyICE]

YOU'RE SCUM YOU DIPSHIT

THERE'S NO IMPLICATIONS

[GreyICE]

Mastin's a confirmed liar. I was already voting when he said that I didn't vote.

He's also a fucking arrogant retard whose terrible for every town that has the misfortune to have him draw a town role PM. I mean this in the highest possible way.

I WOULD RATHER HAVE MASTIN DIE AS TOWN THAN HAVE THE VIG SHOOT SCUM. IT IS BETTER FOR THE TOWN

You're damn fucking right I'm trying to ignore you, Mastin. Shut up and get shot like the good little village idiot you are.

[GreyICE]

If he flips town? I'll cheer that he's FLIPPED and can no longer POST IN THE THREAD and then move on.

[GreyICE]

Bite me, Mastin. Read me? You can't read large print books without a magnifying glass and a floodlight.

You were like 10x less intolerable the last game I was in with you. This one? The arrogance is up to 11, and the reads are fucking toilet, the play is nonsensical, your reasoning is a joke, and OH YEAH THE ARROGANCE.

I mean people call me arrogant but I'm a humble little doormouse.

Excuse me while I ignore you for the rest of the game.

[GreyICE]

You can't figure out why ToonFighter is suspicious?

Rly?

[GreyICE]

Wait, wait, wait, this guy replaced Tomie?

Lawl.

[GreyICE]

How isn't he a great player? Everyone knows what he is thinking, hes actively scumhunting all through the game, and the logic he explained is pretty ace.

Why are you tunneling?

Everyone knows what Rush Limbaugh is thinking, and that hardly means that information was worth knowing, hiplop. And active scumhunting is so much more useful when backed up by active brain cells.

But hiplop, pick two pieces of logic. Two pieces, hiplop, that Mastin used in this thread. And show how they're 'pretty ace,' hiplop.

The two best pieces of logic that this player who is constantly scumhunting and tells you what he's thinking used, two pieces that knocked your socks so far off you owe export dues. The two best pieces this excellent player has used int his excessively long day.

Just pick those two pieces and show me what is so excellent about them, hiplop.

[GreyICE]

No, I'm not sure still.

Sorg is seeming to enter my infuriatingly VI, but probably scum at the same time read.

Not sure though.

Shut up and bus

[GreyICE]

Oh wait, hiplop dodged my question, and explained nothing.

Unvote

Vote: hiplop

Do bother to die.

[GreyICE]

Oh no hiplop, you didn't answer my questions.

It was so very simple, and you dodged it so very poorly.

Someone hammer Hiplop.

[GreyICE]

Good night, hiplop, rest well six feet under.

[GreyICE]

Can someone at least explain why I'm scum, in a nice organized post? I'd like to know where to improve my

town

scum

play.

White knighting. It's so desperately fun to do as scum. You pick a player who isn't really on to anything and who is drawing significant fire, and you protect them. Done properly, it's incredible. Not only do townies defend town reads ALL THE TIME, it gives you lots to do without calling anyone scummy, you're never in any danger of being wrong (okay, SK sometimes, but that's just bad luck, and hey, derps happen) and you get free town points from the person you're defending unless they're good.

You further chose Mastin, and chose to flatter the ever loving shit out of him. Again, good move. His ego constantly threatens to cause a solar eclipse. I don't think you could possibly tell him any piece of flowery bullshit that would NOT be heard by him as a simple acknowledgment of his abilities.

The problem is that you chose to have a specific compliment that suggests that you are actually reading his posts this game and find the posts this game praiseworthy. That means I can push you to ask what that is, and since he hasn't put out a goddamn piece of decent logic this game, into the deep fat fryer with you.

Next time say that you've seen him be really good in other games and find a game or two where they weren't actually bad. That might be risky here, as this is

Mastin

we are talking about after all (step 2 is a problem), but if you choose just a slightly more average player, you're sure to find one or two, and hell you might not even be called on it if you link to a game where they played like shit but the town won anyway (no one ever really reads meta, just skims it to find out how they're right).

And for lords sake, if you do have to explain the logic, make up a knot of eldritch babbling that would scare HP Lovecraft, and pray that town assumes you're batshit insane and gets a town read. Don't blow off the requester, and for lords sake, don't insult them in response, that just fucking screams flailing scum.

[GreyICE]

Die hiplop.

Will cast no vote besides hammer within 3 minutes of deadline on toon. Hip dies for what he's done. Promise not to give a shit when deadline is either.

[GreyICE]

Xanatos scum w/ hiplop. Kill after red flip day 2. Also acceptable vig, Martin still v pro-town shot.

[GreyICE]

Because you're alive, and you are scum, and his wagon is now competing with yours.

So hurry up and die.

[GreyICE]

Because you're alive, and you are scum, and his wagon is now competing with yours.

So hurry up and die.

but im not scum. Other than thinking mastins a good player; YOU HAVENT SAID WHY YOU THINK IM SCUM. My god, its not like I said "HES ALWAYS RIGHT AND EVERYTHING HE SAYS IS AMAZING". No, I just think hes a good player.

You made shit up, hiplop. You made shit up, and when I called you on it you dodged clumsily, and lashed out at me.

That's the reaction of a guilty person. You feel guilty and defensive. You feel that way because you are trying to hide something. You are trying to hide the fact you are not town.

This is why hiplop dies today. Scum knows he is scum. This is all flail.

[GreyICE]

Though it pains me, I'm not sure lies are scummy.

....

GOOD THINGS HAPPEN WHEN YOU SHEEP ME EMP

[GreyICE]

Hmm, so we need 3 townies to vote hiplop for him to die?

Easy enough.

Someone smarter than CSL start doing that.

[GreyICE]

So you (wrongly) think both wagons are town, and thus want to... start a wagon... on town...

[GreyICE]

Meh, I can respect that.

The day ended, ye fucking gods.

[GreyICE]

Hiplop - Sweet dreams tonight in the quicktopic

[GreyICE]

Vote: Edmund.Angles

You think I forget, Edmund?

@GI and zMuffin: Can you please vote for someone else than TF. It won't happen.

You think I forget?
You think I don't know the last vote count?

paupam's rat ( 6 ) -

hiplop, mastin2, Bowser, chkflip, vezokpiraka, Toon Fighter

hiplop ( 5 ) -

Torqez, paupam's rat, malpascp, Hirarky, Empking

Bowser ( 3 )

-

MintKitten,

edmund.angles,

Maxous

Toon Fighter ( 3 )

-

warriormode, zMuffinMan, GreyICE

You're voting for a 3 vote wagon, but tell me and muffin to leave a three vote wagon because it won't happen.

A three vote wagon on scum.

Told you you'd fry for that post.

[GreyICE]

wait David and Empiking are on this wagon. Fuck that

unvote

Empking is town.

It happens.

[GreyICE]

@GI: I consider TF a better lynch-candidate than either Pappum's or hiplop and at present on par with Bowser, that is not the point. The point is that this day has to end and TF is the smallest wagon with active players on it.

In fact, if you go Bowser, I'll help you with either TF or Hiraki D2, your choice. Might just do it anyway.

Edmund's plea to me.

He flips scum, Bowser is confirmed town, as is Hiraki - that 'I'll help you' is totally one scum, one town, with hopes to bump me onto the town.

So no deadline.

Edmund.angles will now vote for ToonFighter or give me good solid reasons for believing he's town or I kill him today, and I WILL GET HIM LYNCHED.

@GI: How about I haven't actually played in a large normal before nor a game with a deadline suspension.

See that question dodge? I noted the deadline suspension and asked Edmund why he thought TF was town.

He responded that he DIDN'T EXPECT THE DEADLINE SUSPENSION.

And he didn't vote for ToonFighter.

In fact his vote came weeks later, deep in the 'good time to bus' period.

Sure, Hiplop might have been white knighting captain listmania the ungodly, which is a tad distracting, but I don't forget things. I told you that I would get you lynched, Edmund, told you that your only hope was to listen.

You have no hopes, Edmund. You derped up big time and hard.

[GreyICE]

Uuh, what?

Your only reference to me is a wild claim that I wanted to "drop the hammer".. despite it only being L-1 and when he claimed VT, my taking my vote

off

based on the reasoning that Scum simply wouldn't claim VT day 1...

I didn't say anything about your alignment. In point of fact, you've been in this game for such a short time and have generally played so weirdly that I don't have any read on your alignment with Hiplop town.

Way to assume I had a scum read, David. Way to overreact. What are you so guilty about?

[GreyICE]

Uh okay.

See I have no idea what Mastin is doing and haven't since, oh... his first damn post in the thread.

Leave me out of any beef you have with him. I think he's town, but well etc.

[GreyICE]

Lets see, Lewarcher had 26 information-low posts in the thread and took especial time not to comment on anything much among the major wagons except to dramatically oppose TF's wagon.

That would make him a very good Vigilante shot, since his information-light posts were scummy, short, and infrequent, meaning that even if he was town, he was fairly useless, and he was better than likely active-lurking scum.

By the law of large games, all vigilantes are incompetent hero vigs who decide that their amazing reads trump all common sense, logic, and sanity, and aim for the most amazing people in the hopes of being able to brag in the post game "No one knew he was scum except me, I shot him when none of you would have touched him, and I won the game." Of course 19 times in 20, the active poster making lots of reads and who was widely read as pro-town and interested in the game was actually... a pro-town townie, making reads, and interested in the game, but that never stops them for shooting for that 5% hero kill.

Option 1

: Competent Vig in a large.

Option 2:

Serial Killer

Just on general principle, I'll believe 2, because in a large game a SK is more likely to make pro-town shots in my experience.

[GreyICE]

VOTE: Edmund

Someone said they were a daycop, can u plz investigate edmund?

*cough*

I have a way to mod-confirm him, but I need a few more townies voting for him first.

[GreyICE]

So he's suspicious of GreyICE, but then attacks zMuffin for buddying him, which as far as I have ever seen it, is scum buddying with a townie, so he's just throwing accusations around and probably trying to drive apart two townies.

I suspected Grey of being third party.
=> mafia could still buddy him.

As for the empking vote I did'nt agree with the top 3 wagons and there was about 3 days. I did'nt see it as impossible.

Wait.

Wait.

You're THIRD PARTY HUNTING?

You spent all of yesterday bitching about how we were lynching ToonFighter rather than Hiplop and now you're doing my absolute favorite tell, the THIRD PARTY HUNT?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

FREEBIE

Unvote

Vote: Maxous

TO THE WATERY DEPTHS WITH YOU

[GreyICE]

Sorry about the little mixup, edmund. It'll have some consequences, but they won't last

PEDIT: LYNCH HIM

[GreyICE]

Spoiler: list

1. Empking <--Scum.
2. edmund.angles <--Scum.
3. PranaDevil MintKitten Zdenek
5. Bowser <--Town.
6. vezokpiraka
7. GreyICE <--Town, via ICE/Pine.
8. Uprising chkflip <--Former scum-lean.
9. Torqez Hezlucky <--Town.
10. Maxous <--Town.
11. malpascp
13. Pine David Xanatos <--Scum, via ICE/Pine.
14. pappums rat <--Scum?
15. warriormode
16. Tomie Uzumaki sorgster <--Former scumread.
17. Hiraki (May Need Replacing?)
19. SomeRandomGuy
20. zMuffinMan <--Town.

Narrowed down:
1. Empking <--Scum.
2. edmund.angles <--Scum.
3. PranaDevil MintKitten Zdenek
6. vezokpiraka (town-lean)
7. GreyICE <--Town, via ICE/Pine.
8. Uprising chkflip <--Former scum-lean.
11. malpascp (stronger town-lean)
13. Pine David Xanatos <--Scum, via ICE/Pine.
14. pappums rat <--Scum?
15. warriormode (strong town-lean)
16. Tomie Uzumaki sorgster <--Former scumread.
17. Hiraki (May Need Replacing?)
19. SomeRandomGuy


One of my current scumreads is wrong, unless they're the SK. My previous (former) scumreads also look like potential SK candidates, but otherwise, town.

Lets do the "both of these wagons are town!" read yesterday on these.

1 - Town Empking! No one lynchy lynchy,
2 - could be, but better stuff ahoy
3 - Town Zdenek!
5 - Town Bowser!
6 - Town Vezok!
7 - ChkFlip - Fine vig shot! Certain read changes today determine a lot!
10 - SCUM!
11 - Sure, town
13 - Town!
14 - Town!
15 - Townish
17 - Wheel of fortune says SCUM!
19 - LURKER, vig here.

Maxous dies today!

[GreyICE]

I think scum would either defend or bus TF, So I'm not going to sheep Grey.

Spoiler: Why you love me

Heh, really Hiplop?
You agree with

all

of GreyICE's points on Toon Fighter?
The first point was GreyICE attacking him for stuff Mastin said when Toon Fighter was talking about Tomie.
The second and third point was just misrepesentative. And his points convinced you???
I don't buy that and I don't buy Hiplop. Would really like to see him lynched.

Mastin - GI did'nt call Pine called scum. I like your concern about it though.

Don't really see scum doing that, however, so I've got a townread on that slot overall.

Normally, yes.
However with particular player consider it a nulltell.

oh and

Pine

-

Explain how Tomie's defence is inconsistent if you don't mind.

The patent-pending chainsaw defense? Something like this?

I got a possible solution,

tracker - target GreyICE tonight while he stabs things

You say I am scum because I have town attitudes.

it's because you seem to be trying too hard to look town. Seems forced.

Alright chkflip, give me a case then.

Or this?

Perhaps he does not grasp that he's standing above very deep waters on a very thin plank?

GreyICE,

Are you saying it is scummy for a player to give out reads without providing adequate reasoning for the reads?

unvote

VOTE: Hiplop

Yeah I changed my mind again, let's just do this already.

Or this, when the nose goes to the grindstone?

MAXOUS, boys and girls.

Maxous.

Or hell, lets just go here.

Two dead mafia
Piles of relational tells
A night kill that targeted a scumbag

And he's more interested in third party hunting than finding the dead scums' partners.


THIRD PARTY HUNTING AT THIS STAGE IS A SCUM TELL.

[GreyICE]

@Grey: Except I did'nt spend the day bitching about it.
I asked muffinman why he thought TF was scum and stated I thought TF was town.
And having a feeling someone is playing like third party is not exactly hunting for them.
So, no.

Oh no, you are exactly third party hunting.

You were using it to discredit my drive on Toon Fighter. You suggested the motherfucking tracker track me. 'cause I was obviously scum. You danced, you hollered, you screamed.

And then when I moved to hiplop, you went silent.

Now it slowly resurges.

I got a possible solution,

tracker - target GreyICE tonight while he stabs things

I suspected Grey of being third party.
=> mafia could still buddy him.

As for the empking vote I did'nt agree with the top 3 wagons and there was about 3 days. I did'nt see it as impossible.

Lame excuses, Maxous. Lame excuses. You were calling people scum to save Toon Fighter's ass, without thinking of how it would cost yours, just lashing out.

You're scum, Maxous.

You're definitely scum.

You were just a tad too eager today. A tad to eager to move onto my wagon while still having me a scumread. A tad to eager to use the third party excuse to follow me as needed and discredit me when wanted.

You got sloppy, Maxous. You were confident no one was suspecting you day 1, and you overplayed your hand.


You were confident no one saw you as scum. It made you cocky enough to chainsaw for Toon Fighter, and chainsaw HARD. Virtually everyone voting for him you slammed into, either for having bad reasons or for being scum. Then today? You vote with one of your scumreads, using the patent-pending third party excuse. Third party. Oh yes. The excuse for having a scumread on someone but still voting with them when you want to. That's a well worn excuse - using it? Lazy.


Confident. Cocky. Lazy.

DEAD

[GreyICE]

@GreyIce: is there any other reason why you wanted edmund dead so much and so early?

Also, any claims for night actions that may be relevant on todays lynch or for next night actions should be made ASAP.

I'm confirmed town.

This is awesome.

Kthxbai.

[GreyICE]

........................

No.

Do not tell me he's too scummy to be scum.

That's fucktarded.

Try again.

[GreyICE]

The word 'suspected' refers to the past tense.
So, yeah..

And the first paragraph was exagerrated. I stated the possibility of you being scum once.

You sure seemed certain that every argument against ToonFighter was bad and that everyone moving on to him was scum without ever really... talking to him.

You asked him a throwaway question once, and then ignored it. Like you seemed to ignore everything else he posted, in favor of attacking those attacking him.

Does the town want to know something interesting? Maxous never quoted or responded to his 'strong town read' once. He never tried to encourage him how to vote. He never responded to his arguments. He spent tons and tons and tons of time defending him, and never ever once tried to vote with him, influence him, understand him. Maxous never built off one of ToonFighter's arguments, never even really addressed him for some questions that were answered, well... uh... not at all. And Maxous never followed up to see if there was anything in what people were talking about. In fact he moved to pushing other lynches when the ToonFighter wagon started to build.

In other words when ToonFighter wagon was small, Maxous spent a lot of time defending him.
When ToonFighter wagon grew, instead of defending him more, Maxous just tried to get other people lynched, and even distanced from his own defenses!

Oh yes, this happened:

Muffinman - speak your grievance with Toon Fighter! (I went through his ISO and don't see scum motovation. Your earlier post about him was vague)

Toonfighter is at 2 votes!

I clearly state the Hiplop lynch is going nowhere and decide to unvote and change. I later go on Bowser who was a large wagon at the time.
This could be construed as bandwagoning cause I could'nt get hiplop lynched.
Hiplop says nothing.

If you had control of my vote what would you do with it?

Unvote
Vote: TF

3. I was asking in order to sheep you.

Empking (presumeably) decides his vote is'nt really going anywhere and blatnatly states he is sheeping another wagon.
Hiplop says nothing

unvote
VOTE: Hiplop

Yeah I changed my mind again, let's just do this already.

I change my mind and vote Hiplop again.

bullshit. Can you explain why you decided i've become scummier?

pretty much "I CANT GET HIM LYNCHED, SO IMA BANDWAGON AGAIN".

This in fact was not sheeping a bandwagon. But suddenly, changing your vote and sheeping a bandwagon is bullshit when I voted Hiplop.
Yet he did'nt pay a blind bit of notice when people were doing the same thing but were'nt voting him.
If he really beleived changing your vote to sheep was bull/scummy he would of said something about the earlier 2 cases I quoted.
This is self-preservation.

Toon Fighter is at 4 votes! Defense softens to attacking TF's attackers!

Yeah, alright

unvote

His reaction to L-1 and the hammer seems town. Might change my mind again but I'm thinking he is town here. Silly town but w/e

Reaction fish L-1 vote?

- don't like the sound of that.

Pappums rat is not scum - that wagon can go burn.

Next biggest wagon is Toon fighter - I don't think he is scum and a lot of the wagon consists of "just look how scum he is"
Also, as of 871 I would be happy lynching 5 out of the 6 players on the wagon. I don't trust it.

You know,
VOTE: Empking

TF is at 6 votes!

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go


Toon Fighter at 9 votes, and barely a mention.


Why it's the mysterious town read where you defend him less the more other players vote for him. Me, I tend not to really go all the fuck out in defending until the wagon at least builds some steam, unless the muttering is widespread enough to be getting on my nerves, but here apparently you go all out at 2 votes and don't mention it at 9!

Way to prevent lynches on people you think are town.

[GreyICE]

No, GI. It's nothing to do with "too scummy to be scum"

He unvoted hiplop, the only viable lynch other than toonfighter, to pursure a lynch on Empking.

How does this make sense if maxous is scum?

Why did he abandon the only wagon that was going to result in a lynch other than toonfighter... while choosing not to bus the hell out of toonfighter?

The only half-viable argument I've seen for Maxous being scum is that he was 'third party hunting' but considering he made no effort to really push a lynch on you, I don't see your point here. Thinking that you're playing like third party means nothing. Directing a tracker who may or may not have listened to him means nothing.

Uh... Muffin, how the hell does Maxous in that situation bus ToonFighter? You're being ridiculous here. He's spent the entire day defending him, how the HELL does he non-suspiciously change his mind? "He's town, he's town, he's town, don't vote him, he's town, wagon is growing... welp, guess he's scum, oh look scumflip you can see how much town cred I earned right."

Wandering off to a non-viable wagon to build new suspicions for later days is EXACTLY what I'd expect scum to do, at least ones with more than 5 brain cells. Sudden 180s for little reason on "town reads" that were being strenuously defended just when the wagon was growing is so fucking obvious.

You're used to play with scumbags bad enough to defend their buddies the entire day than 180 just before the lynch because they think THAT will build TOWN CREDIT, well, okay. Not everyone sucks that hardcore. Moving to a non-viable person Maxous knows won't be lynched as a 'safe harbor' that allows him to sit the day out is ONE HUNDRED FUCKING PERCENT what scum would do.

Town might fight the lynch to the death, but that theoretically looks bad when he FLIPS SCUM. Idiots might bus, but that looks REALLY BAD when he flips scum. Maxous wandered off to do nothing and work on getting mislynches for later days, and that's what SCUM DO.

[GreyICE]

Actually I'd pretty much love having you in my town were I scum, Mastin, you're much more manipuable than you think you are

That being said, sure, scum generally hate unpredictability. But there's a point of unpredictability where you have ceased to be 'who knows what he'll do' and more 'even if he's town, can we trust him?' Fakeclaiming power role results is that level. You think I'm ever trusting a cop guilty from you in any game ever? No? Were you the town cop, I wouldn't trust a damn thing you claimed about it. In a way, you've already helped the scum - they know even if you were an information role, they could probably get out because of people like me or anyone else looking at your 'lie detector' claim and just rolling our eyes - so you're bad to shoot, because you're a null information role. You think if you claimed a cop innocent on a player I'd remove my vote? I think not.

[GreyICE]

Vote: edmund

He has been a scumread of mine since practically the beginning of the game, and I think Maxous is town. GreyICE, Maxous never voted TF, so I dont think your speculation about him bussing really has merit. I dont see his "third party hunting" to be that at all; I think he was simply stating his opinion that he thought you were third party. edmund's defense so far has seemed like flailing to me, he hasnt made any good points at all and seems to say whatever it takes to subvert his wagon and push Maxous' with bad reasoning.

Is that what I speculated about maxous now?

Really?

[GreyICE]

Angles will not result in a scumflip.

Scumflips may be found by lynching Maxous or chkflip.

Preferably maxous.

Vig shoots mastin tonight. Period.

[GreyICE]

Why Mastin gets shot tonight

1) He's been calling me scum for most of day 1. That stopped today, apparently becuase I've stopped being... uh... scum? I 'unno, but mastin forgot he was supposed to have a scumread on me.

2) His shitfit yesterday where he refused to do anything, including analyze ToonFighter. At all. He had ZERO analysis of ToonFighter. To justify this, he had minimal analysis of hiplop, and tried for different mislynches. Again, sucks when your mislynch goes south, neh?

3) Not a single useless vote count analysis that shows us nothing.

I swear, we lynch him today or kill him tonight, him being alive on day 3 is NOT acceptable.

[GreyICE]

Unless you've got a way to explain a scum power robbing a scum player of their vote...

Well, could be a town power. Always that possibility.

[GreyICE]

Yes, it's the new variant on serial killer. Instead of killing players he steals their vote. So when the game goes on long enough he screams "I HAVE ALL THE VOTES, ALL OF THEM" and proceeds to lynch whoever he wants.

Then he remembers he's not bulletproof. But it's a fun role.

[GreyICE]

Unless you've got a way to explain a scum power robbing a scum player of their vote...

Well, could be a town power. Always that possibility.

Any town day power (with the possible exception of dayvig--depends on who they target ) is claimed immediately.

If someone fails to claim the power, it's therefore a scum power.

Common knowledge, really.

This knowledge, I think it is not so common.

Why do town PRs go outing themselves?

[GreyICE]

No, Sorgster.
If they claim and are a town-power, they're made suspicious because it's an inheritently scummy ability. (Vote manipulation is FAR stronger as a scum ability than as a town ability.) Scum'd never nightkill someone like that.

If they don't claim, it's synonymous with it being labelled scum power automatically.

Yeah, I'm going to come out against the idea that town power roles should be claiming if they don't want to, thanks.

[GreyICE]

Okay, scum is mechanics whining now. Five more on max thx

[GreyICE]

GI. How many scum do you think are left? I'd guess 3 (prob 3 mafia or 2 mafia + 1 SK - 16:5 or 16:4:1 probably).

How confident are you that maxous is one of those scum? Suppose he isn't scum, who's scum and why?

Pappums, malp, Hiraki, nanook(formerly SRG) <- any of those would be a good bet for hitting scum, I think. Not maxous. Not edmund.

You're wrong.

[GreyICE]

First: hiraki?

Second: not voting max

[GreyICE]

Fuck this noise.

Double vote: maxous

Good night, max

[GreyICE]

Uh... Serial killer and vig?

[GreyICE]

I'm back.
Just to be clear, I would have lynched Maxous if I had had the vote.

@GI: Could you please full claim, role name flavour? I would also like you to give an short account of your thought process during the game in light of your role.


I'm back.Just to be clear, I would have lynched Maxous if I had had the vote.@GI: Could you please full claim, role name flavour? I would also like you to give an short account of your thought process during the game in light of your role.

Wut

[GreyICE]

You like that pit, don't you

[GreyICE]

Vote stealer, nitwit.

[GreyICE]

No one, didn't feel like using it. Figured the scum would leave me alive because they can't do basic math

[GreyICE]

Also why steal edmund's vote N1?

Because if I died I wanted to point exactly where my suspicions were. Duh?

Also to confirm myself town. I like being confirmed town. Stop questioning confirmed town

[GreyICE]

Vote: zMuffinMan

[GreyICE]

Hehe muffins hasn't even figured out why VS in norm is confirm town... Nor has he asked. Bad muffins.

[GreyICE]

dude you're confirmed town. scum should kill you. can't have confirmed town walking around being alive and shit.

KILL GI, SCUM. HE'S THE BEST KILL.

QQ more scumbag~

My vote is so awesome today.

[GreyICE]

Nah, I'm just bored.

Muffin does work for me.

[GreyICE]

Quick math:
Votestealer in 4:2

If Votestealer is scum, who wins?

What power level of game is necessary to balance a scum player who counts as THREE PLAYERS in LyLo?

Hint: Large

Normal

[GreyICE]

-_-

You're still Tomie's replacement too

Vote: Sorgester

[GreyICE]

I'm lynching from Mastin's town list today. It's the best way to hit scum.

QFT on day 3

[GreyICE]

vote:sorgster

more.

Mastin must be right about something because if he was actually wrong about everything he'd be useful for finding scum.

[GreyICE]

I seriously will lynch the vig claim as a SK if mastin is alive tomorrow.

Can the rest of the town sign this pact too?

[GreyICE]

'cause I don't think he's scum. I just want him to die. It's a subtle difference explained by his ISO having the word count of a novella.

[GreyICE]

Nah, just really feeling unmotivated by this game

[GreyICE]

I could say more about chkflip and uprising, but it's easy to see if you read them in ISO, but I'd just like to point one thing out. From chkflip's ISO 4:

Toon is Tomie's buss to look town.

Not one word about Toon prior to posting this; in particular not a word about why he is scummy. It basically confirms chkflip as scum.

95% of that wall was useless. I read em for the 5% gems.

Vote: Chkflip

I did indeed miss that.

[GreyICE]

Unvote

The irritating thing has a point.

[GreyICE]

Vote: David Xanatos

Case:

VOTE: Edmund

Nice trap from chkflip.. Mastin's reads (excluding myself) have some merit. I'm looking forward to his next set actually.. 'tis interesting to see his thought process, verbose though he is..

VOTE: Chkflip for giggles.

[GreyICE]

Vote: Mastin

I can't take this anymore

[GreyICE]

Vote on mastin is serious.

He's done the same thing for three days, wig out before we lynch anyone and insist they're town.

Coasting scum, stuck in his lazy, lazy pattern. He dies.

[GreyICE]

Vote: Mal

[GreyICE]

Vote: Mastin

Vote: Mastin

You didn't think I thought I was taking from TOWN, did you?

[GreyICE]

Also, lets assume that 4 people in this thread are scum, and that the rest are town.

By guessing every single player to be town, you would have an 81% accuracy rating.

You do NOTHING except pitching a scummy shitfit right at deadlines about how EVERYONE is town.

[GreyICE]

David, Chk flip is still alive.

Sorgaster is still alive.

Why are you voting for mastin?

Unvotex2

Vote X1:David

Vote: Edmund

[GreyICE]

David, I can hammer.

Act accordingly.

[GreyICE]

Because Mastin's been tunneling on me all game, and I'm getting Scum feelings from him. Coupled with the fact he's the wagon alongside mine, it's the logical vote.

What do you think about Sorgaster? CSL?

[GreyICE]

Also muffin, for the post game - very solid vigging (drops a few points if you shot EmpKing, but well).

[GreyICE]

Yes, I'd use my night zero action to steal a vote and ARE YOU FUCKING HIGH AS A KITE?

[GreyICE]

If I close my eyes to the usernames and stab the scummiest ISO in the thread by far, my finger lands on Sorgster.

Anyone disaree?

[GreyICE]

I'm sheeping mastin again, wait what no.

Fuck that noise, Zdenek is town.

Here is the list of the living.
edmund.angles
Zdenek
CSL
vezokpiraka

GreyICE

chkflip
mastin2
sorgster

I cross myself out since I am and remain confirmed town. I have theories on why I'm still alive, but they are just theories.

Now Zdenek can't vote today, which is where my suspicions lay, but IPOF I want to see where things are going here:

This post comes very close to clearing Edmund all on its lonesome:

ROFLMAO.

Vote: edmund.angles

Jumping on a wagon that already has a bunch of people on it (many with no or bad reasons) for shit-reasoning like that is bad. How do you expect a game to start exactly? Mastin's "reads" were a way to generate discussion and get us moving from RVS. While they have clogged up other venues for scumhunting by generating too much discussion about the reason for his "reads", this was not Mastin's fault. He hasnt given full reasoning behind his comments for a reason as well (probably to gauge people's reactions) and that should be rather obvious, especially to someone who has been at MS.net for as long as you have. Your last line, about it not being a great loss if Mastin is town, is just awful. You try to exonerate yourself from responsibility by making it out as though it would not matter if he flips town because supposedly he is a hinderance to town either way. That is a classic scum move, and you are now my top scumread.

It's also chainsawing for Mastin.

And this confirms it:

I really dont like the Bowser wagon, mintkitten (who?), edmund, and Toon Fighter are all on it, and I have strong scumreads on edmund and TF. I would support a TF or edmund lynch gladly if a hiplop lynch does not go through.

Good scum might list both their buddies in there, expecting to flip and dumping a load of WIFOM in our lap. This is not that. Edmund = town.

And yep, forced to the wire despite questioning Toon Fighter, he ends on Edmund.

One question is now clear. Edmund.Angles is town.

Six remain.


Amrun spent a lot of time attacking ChkFlip. Including arguing with Mastin about him being definitely town. I can't see Amrun scum bussing like that in a situation where she'd be the only one left in a town full of power roles. Just risky, risky play when there's so many other people around.


ChkFlip is town.

Five remain.

tl;dr CONCLUSIONS:

The most incriminated by TF's ISO are, in rough order:

-Bowser
-Mastin/Zmuffin
-Sorgster
-Edmund

The most town looking by TF's ISO are:

-Mastin/Zmuffin
-GreyIce
-Vezokpiraka

Okay, so lets look at her analysis of her partner's ISO (in retrospect I should be punched in the face for not lynching her my god this is as bad as NGE).

Toon fighter attacking mastin is a fine town tell. Good. Me being near-impossible for amrun scum to lynch, and being confirmed town and all, yeah.


Vezok? Wait, what?

You keep misinterpreting me and accusing me based on things I didn't say/ didn't mean. Your vote (and vezok's after it) just reek of opportunism and poor reading.

Only mention of Vez vez in her ISO... and that's classic distancing.

Someone didn't want to bus...

Vote: Vezok

Vote: Vezok

[GreyICE]

In short order:

Zdenek - very likely town. He reads as town, he thinks like town, and face it, mastin is leading the lynch. The argument with Amrun was weird, but feels like Amrun felt Sorg was a softer target than Zdenek.
Sorg - much townier after amrun flip.
CSL - still feel he's town due to opposing Toon Fighter, but the town cred from that is fading. Very viable candidate assuming Vezok doesn't end this (LOL)

[GreyICE]

TOWN:

MuffinMan
Torquez
Bowser
Maxous

hiplop

Toon
Phoebus

LIKELY TOWN:

Vezok

Hiraki

Pine

DA REST:

malpascp
Prana/Mint
SRG
Uprising/chk
Warrior

SCUM:

Tomie
Edmund

GreyICE

Empking

Pappums

No. I'm NOT wrong about these reads. There might be ONE read in here which is off, but that's pretty much it. Sheep me for the win.

Of course, you'll probably want reasons for these reads. I'll give them, but quite frankly, I shouldn't need to. I'm town. I'm a good scumhunter. I pick up on certain tells which give me the scumteam. And, dang it, hiplop being put to L-3 is the biggest fail I've ever seen.

The reasons will come tomorrow, though, since I'm recovering from the Midnight Showing. (The careful observer will likely note a few things already, though, which are obvious. Anyone who has been in enough games to realize my general playstyle--for instance--will probably be able to figure out why Pine and GreyICE are italicized.)

This would make the list nearly perfectly useless, which would make the game rock.

[GreyICE]

Vote Vezok you useless et2t325t

[GreyICE]

Mastin, my powers only push LyLo a day later if I steal from scum.

[GreyICE]

Mastin less town than edmund

[GreyICE]

Hi, I am the voice of reason.

Today is mass claim day.

I'm a doublevoter

N1 I stole from Edmund
N2 I stole from no one
N3 I stole from Mastin, because it was funny
N4 I stole from Zdenek
N5 I stole from no one because I am not a moron

Popcorn to Mastin. Mastin claims.

[GreyICE]

Hey idea

Lets not talk until mass claim is over

Oh cool idea GreyICE

You so smart

I know, GreyICE what can I say? I surprise myself some days.

I know you do GreyICE, you're just that amazing.


Holy hell, it's the first intelligent conversation I've had in this thread for days.

[GreyICE]

Claim: Hider

N1 - Muffin
N2 - warriormode
N3 - Didn't use it, I think I forgot. Don't recall. I think this was the speedlynch day that caught me off guard?
N4 - CSL
N5 - GreyICE

IIRC a hider dies if they hide behind scum, right? So that should mean that CSL and GI are conftown.

Please identify where you breadcrumbed your hide targets.

Also, check your role PM, and then tell us whether you die if you hide behind scum.

[GreyICE]

Starting Analysis.

18.

Toon Fighter (Mafia Goon): lynched D1

-
21.

Phoebus

lewarcher82 (Mafia Goon) died N1

4.

hiplop (Townie): died N1

=============
10.

Maxous (Townie) lynched D2

-
1.

Empking (Town Watcher) died N2

17.

Hiraki (Townie) died N2

19.

SomeRandomGuy

NanookTheWolf (Townie) died N2

=============
11.

malpascp (Town Tracker) lynched D3

-
15.

warriormode (Townie) died N3

20.

zMuffinMan (Town Vigilante) died N3

=============
13.

Pine

David Xanatos (Townie) lynched D4

-
9.

Torqez

Hezlucky (Town Bodyguard) died N4

14.

pappums rat

Amrun (Mafia Jailkeeper) died N4

=============
6.

vezokpiraka (Mafia Goon) lynched D5

-
16.

Tomie Uzumaki sorgster (Townie) died N5

PEdit: Chkflip gets himself lynched, news at 11.

Anyway, once we lynch obvscum we need to focus on getting things straight.

[GreyICE]

Role analysis:

Investigative:

Town Tracker
Town Watcher

Killing:

Town Vigilante

Protective:

Town Bodyguard

Obvious facts:

There is an even night killer. The following kills are unaccounted for:

1 of EmpKing/Hiraki

Amrun

These occurred on night 2 and night 4. Therefore, as painfully stupid as it is, due to the mass claim not uncovering any explanation, Neruz has included an even night serial killer (most likely alternating night SK/commuter). Or the scum team has an even night vigilante.

Both of these are total bullshit, but what can you do?

Anyway, here's the following assumptions:

1) scumteam is fairly low power, although large. With an even night serial killer AND a vigilante, jailkeeping someone is kinda a crapshoot. You might lock down a power role, but what if the SK was going to shoot it anyway? Huh?
2) Town has like... no power. A watcher and a tracker? A vig? A bodyguard? Cool story bro, but I could see a tracker, vig and bodyguard in a 13 player mini. Vote stealer is not the god of power roles (or even very good). This makes me want to trust the hider claim but it's so scummy it's radioactive (more on that later).
3) What the FUCK is up with the even night kills?

Hmmm.

[GreyICE]

Okay, basic mafia theory.

A hider is a role used early game to confirm town and late game to confirm scum. In both cases it's utterly worthless if the person using it doesn't breadcrumb it. It's hella easy to do too. ChkFlip is not a moron, and not a new player. All he has to do is say 'I think CSL is town' in his last post of the day, and if he dies, well, look. CSL is scum. This is basic, easy, and hella easy to do.

And yet... we find no evidence of this. The worst sin came last night. Think about it. I'm confirmed fucking town.

If I die, he dies.

AND THERE IS AN OBVIOUS EXTRA KILL MEANING TWO ANTI-TOWN KILLS.

Odds are better than 50% I died last night. And yet he hid behind me. An action that kills him if I die.

Nevermind mafia theory. That's just bad play. Bad, bad play.

I mean it's truly inexplicable. He never mentions WarriorMode as confirmed town D2. He does mention Muffin is 'very town' at one point.

He claims not to have been around N3. That lasted from 9/13 (3:49 AM) to 9/16 (5 AM).

During this time, he made the following posts:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3427794
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3427927
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3428880
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3431096
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3431108
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3432427
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p3432691
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3432860
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3433932
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3433937
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3433939
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3433950
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3434154
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3434243
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3434320
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3434365

If he's town, WarriorMode was vigged as a confirmed innocent thanks to his actions.

Fuck he NEVER mentions his confirmed innocents ever.

My rage pit is bubbling over right now. At either how FUCKING SHODDY this piece of shit fakeclaim was, or, if he's town, the desire to chop off his cock and shove it so far down his throat he pisses out his ass.

[GreyICE]

Oh I'm not even bothering.

Vote: ChkFlip

If you're town I don't want you alive.

Now, lets go on to the rest. I'm looking for scum and SK.

[GreyICE]

Mastin has been twigging my scumdar for days. There is something desperately, desperately off about him. His need to play games, his horrid waffling, the way he moves back and forth, like a tree. He needs to die, and he needs to die but bad.

CSL is town if chkflip is town (also my fucking god that's not the case). I don't really see him as the SK in any case.

Hmm, lets look at the SK kills. We have Amrun, and Emp or Hiraki (SRG is such an obvious vig shot I don't even know what).

I've... I literally have nothing. My only thought is these are Mastin kills, since they're so fucking awful only Mastin would do this as non-town.

Why shoot Amrun if you have a town read on her? It's stupid. She was doing nothing.

Why shoot Amrun if you have a scum read on her? Push her lynch day 5, commute or do whatever it is you do on odd nights, and enjoy.

There's... it has to be mastin. Anyone else would not WIFOM themselves so badly, and just shoot townie players. It's mastin who is going to figure 'oh scum is getting too strong, lets shoot Amrun.'

[GreyICE]

EmpKing was obvtown, as usual when he's town.

If the vig shot him, I will be pissed as fuck.

[GreyICE]

So I could claim my targets and clear them.

How could I catch scum with a counter-claim? Who fucking claims hider as scum?

It's a fucking awesome fakeclaim as scum.

You're like a cop except you have a great excuse for investigating obvtown and the SK doesn't shoot you.

Also, why WOULDN'T you breadcrumb your innocents as loudly as possible? The scumteam seeing them and figuring you're a cop and shooting you is AWESOME as a Hider.

In point of fact the only good point in favor of you being town is that Hider is such a decent fakeclaim for scum in your situation that the fact you've played like SHIT so far suggests you'd do a SHIT fakeclaim.

Of course then I look at your play and I realize it is a SHIT fakeclaim.

[GreyICE]

Also why not use 5 seconds of brainpower.

Step 1: I breadcrumb my innocents loudly
Step 2: Vig doesn't shoot them
Step 3: Scum think I'm cop shoot me/roleblock me

Shots and roleblock both miss, vigs don't shoot town, profit.

[GreyICE]

He wants to be lynched.

Someone oblige the man.

[GreyICE]

Yes, chkflip.

I am saying that playing NOTHING like a Hider, NOTHING like a player with confirmed innocents, NOTHING like a player who cannot be killed by scum when he's shot makes your claim fake.

Would I believe a mason claim from someone who tried to start a wagon on his claimed mason buddy? No. For the EXACT SAME FUCKING REASON.

[GreyICE]

*sigh*

As much as I hate your guts right now I need to be sure you're scum.

Unvote

[GreyICE]

Also under no circumstances whatsoever can you hide tonight.

It's 4:1:1. There will be two kills tonight. If you're town, and you got shot behind another town player (or just died from hiding behind scum), it would take scum literally crosskilling for town to win.

As is, if we lynch town today, we're in deep, deep shit.

[GreyICE]

Geez, this really makes me question the game balance again.

Scum team - 5 players
Serial Killer - 1 Player (Even night)
Town - 15 players (1 vig)

Lets say the vig vigs fairly well, 2 town, 1 scum, dies N3 or is nullified (jailkept because of forced claim, something). That leaves us 12:4:1

The more I look at it, the more I hate it.

But would Neruz be enough of a derp to stick a hider in a game with three different killing roles?

Okay, lets say that we look at this again.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16167
16:4:1
Town had 3 power roles: Hider, Doctor, Roleblocker

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17770
16:5:1
Town had Cop, Cop, Doctor (yes two cops), 2Shot Vig (and PGO+Miller but those don't really count)

At 15:5:1 we'd get Watcher, Tracker, Bodyguard, Vig, and Votestealer?


http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=15121
13:4:1
Town gets: 2x1 shot vig, Full vig, tracker, hider, gunsmith

I want to say the hider claim is obvtown because I expected at least one power role to claim, but this is the shittiest use of a power role since godforsaken fucking oh my god.

I mean even WITH the claimed PR, town is heavily underpowered here. I' have bought an even night vig, but there's just no reason for town not to claim here.

The last game I saw with this distribution had two cops and a doctor. A watcher isn't a cop, a tracker DEFINITELY isn't a cop, and a bodyguard doesn't quite look like a doctor. And we're down a townie.

*sigh*

HEY CHK I CAN THINK OF ABOUT A BILLION WAYS TO BETTER USE A HIDER ROLE.

[GreyICE]

Okay fuck it. There's no way we can lynch Chk with this power role distribution. As I said, just look at planet of the hats. 5 scum, 1 serial killer, 16 town. If we line them up, we get

Comparison
- 1 townie in this game (downgrade)
1 cop exchanged for 1 watcher (downgrade)
1 cop exchanged for 1 tracker (huge downgrade)
1 doctor exchanged for 1 bodyguard (huge downgrade)
1 2shot vig exchanged for 1 full vig (upgrade)
1 miller exchanged for 1 VT (small upgrade)
1 PGO exchanged for 1 votestealer (upgrade)

On the whole, I'd say that we need that hider in order for the game to balance at all. It's still MUCH worse for the town than Planet, but fuck, game is unbalanced.

If he's scum, then our entire system is dead.

[GreyICE]

I have to think more.
UNVOTE: mastin

@GI: Why didn't you steal a vote last night?

Because I'm not a moron

[GreyICE]

Fuck it.

I wanna lynch scum today.

Vote: Edmund.Angles

[GreyICE]

True.

Lets make things easier.

Scum, the SK has killed two of you and generally is playing with an even night kill. That means he's probably alternating night bulletproof.

We'll hand the game to him in Kingmaker.

[GreyICE]

only if this is a scumflip, remember.

Townflip, and you can't hide period. We can't lose 2-3 town tonight.

[GreyICE]

Meh, my vote on you was genuine annoyance, rather than scumminess.

That being said, Mastin has sheeped my Vezok vote, my vote on you, and my edmund vote with new and novel reasons each time.

I'm not sure what this is a tell of, but if you're dead tomorrow, he's dead as a doornail.

[GreyICE]

Hey Mastin.

Lemme repost this from the dead thread.

Mastin, you stupid motherfucker. Either scum or sk loses in 1:1. And BOTH will PM the moderator to see which it is. Because of that, whichever one loses in a 1:1 HAS to shoot the other one.

I was confirmed fucking town. Whoever was gunning for other scum would never in A THOUSAND YEARS shoot me. Because I WAS CONFIRMED TOWN.

THEREFORE THERE IS NO OTHER SCUM JUST THE SK

THE WORST PART IS YOU THINK YOU CAN ANALYZE SOMETHING

FUCKING GODDAMN IT

SHOULD FUCKING LYNCH OBVSCUM OBVIOUSLY

DAMN IT TO HELL

FUCK YOU MASTIN

FUCK YOU

FUCK YOU

[GreyICE]

Seriously.

The difference between Vezok and you is twofold

First, Vezok knows his reads are shit.

Second, Vezok doesn't litter the thread with self-important wank fests.

YOU ARE A WORSE PLAYER THAN VEZOKPIRAKA

[GreyICE]

I MEAN CSL KNOWS HE'S A SHIT PLAYER

YOU ARE FUCKING HORRIBLE AND THINK YOU'RE GOD'S GIFT TO MAFIA

[GreyICE]

By the way, anyone who has problems with the balance, feel free to take i up with Vi. The original setup had scum with a second PR and a more powerful SK, but Vi dissuaded me claiming that i was underestimating the strength of a 4p scumteam. I'd provide the link of the review thread but i've cleared my history since then so i can't :X

And... what are you saying here?

Overall I think this game was tilted against scum.

If we start with the precept that 11:2 is balanced, 1 goon is equal to 5.5 mafia members. Therefore 10:3 and 16:4 should have roughly equal amounts of town power (ignoring things that just get weaker in large games, like masons, innocent child, and Vote Stealer). Obviously Watcher, Tracker, Vig, Bodyguard and VS is too much for a mini normal 10:3. While you can say that the chances of the roles getting results is less, the chances of the roles living longer is higher.

The vig and the bodyguard both did a good job (Muffin hit two VTs who were almost definitely mislynches the way they were playing, and one scum). But the two information roles getting 0 results was not predictable, and yet the town still won due to the sheer number of phases we had.

I think the scum really needed, at the minimum, a Role Cop. And possibly change the watcher or the vig to odd night.

[GreyICE]

Muffin didn't hit scum. I hit both those mofos.

Muffin shot Lewarcher too

[GreyICE]

You haven't read my sig, have you?

I'm retiring not because I want to stop playing, but because of games like this and Sexy Sedilla, among others.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/RueC5ERwChDc <--My QT, for all its lousy 'glory'.

THEN WHY DON'T YOU JUST STOP AND THINK?

EVER?

I don't know what fucking scum read you had on Zdenek, and honestly I don't care. It's like you never even stopped to consider that he was town. It's like you never even stopped to consider why there'd be one death night 6. It's like you never even stopped to consider what was going on.

And then there's the lying. Mastin, town lies rarely. I've gambited, yes I have. There's a very specific thing about my gambits. They're rare (especially as town). And some of them were a bad idea. And why are they rare? Not to establish a self meta of usually telling the truth for future gambits. Because 95% of the time,

IF NOT 99%

, it's anti town to lie! And most of my gambits? They involve creative ways to get the scumteam to kill me at a very bad time to kill me. Because if I'm going to lie to the town, it's best if that fact is revealed by the moderator flipping my name and role.

That's why you're a policy lynch, Mastin. That's why I wanted you dead on day 1 when you claimed lie detector. That's why I begged the vig to vig you. I cannot trust you. You are not trustworthy. Why? Because above playing the game, you want to be seen. You want to be noticed. You want to be the hero of the game. And for that you'll sacrifice the game. You'd rather LOSE THE GAME then win the game but have someone else lauded.

Look at the Vezok lynch. You wanted him to flip town. I know you did. Because then you, Mastin, could be the hero of LyLo.

I have games where I've done very well (and games where I've done very poorly) but I won only one game 'by myself' (Marketplace Mafia). Every other one, the town helped. Sometimes even just by being obvtown.

WHY THE FUCK WOULD ZDENEK SHOOT ME? I HAD A TOWN READ ON HIM ALL GAME. I DERAILED HIS LYNCH EVERY TIME YOU BROUGHT IT UP. ZDENEK SCUM WOULD NEVER HAVE SHOT ME. GODDAMN IT MASTIN, NEXT TIME YOU ARE IN LYLO, HAVE A FUCKING BRAIN.