Post Apocalyptic Mafia - Mini 1226: Over!

[xvart]

Lurker scum!

VOTE: Wraith

[xvart]

AS FOR SCUM, WRAITH IS A GREAT WAGON

It's not a wagon, yet... hint hint.

[xvart]

Actually, VOTE: Slaxx for an incorrect signature.

A moderator vote after a RVS vote?

@Zajnet

How do you think you should behave the next few pages?

What sort of question is this and what were you hoping to achieve?

Vote: SaM

Fate is town.

Why? From my experience Fate scum/Fate town on page one and two is pretty difficult to differentiate.

LOL

KEEP GOING

YOU HAVE NOTHING AT ALL

THIS WAGON WILL PROVE INFORMATIVE

"I've been caught for no good reason."

and asking CSL for reasoning behind a read is utterly and completely pointless, his answer will be nonsensical or non existent.

Why will the response be nonsensical or non existent? And why, if it is non existent, would we not want to know definitively that it is non existent, since then it is a phoney bologna read?

I'm seeing a lot of nothing except words and overly long explanations to hide behind so we can't question him about why he did something. He is playing the same game I did in my first game. I can FEEL his paranoia of being caught as I read his posts.

What? How can we not question him and how can he hide behind long posts? That seems so counter intuitive, especially compared to the person he is questioning (CSL) who gave a short post to hide behind while also allowing him the ability to make up a reason later when questioned.

@fate:

Must suck to die so quick in all the games you're town.

Ooohh... I like this for scum posting. He's setting up Fate for a lynch later on if he doesn't die early game.

Palisade's PR looks fake to me. We're not letting ASOS happen again. But I'm not up for lynching him yet.

"Let's keep the scum distraction around a little while longer despite the fact I know he's scum." Seriously though, does anyone know of Slaxx having post restrictions before and whether or not he would likely include a debilitating post restriction in a game he designed?

I think he's trying too hard and a lot of his posts seem forced, but I'd rather lynch CSL or Wraith.

Again, legitimate scum tell but voting elsewhere. Can't seem to keep his priorities straight with all the wagons he's attempting to appear to be supporting.

There's so many scum this game it makes me sick. I think I'm most confident about

UNVOTE:
VOTE: diddin

[xvart]

Seriously though, does anyone know of Slaxx having post restrictions before and whether or not he would likely include a debilitating post restriction in a game he designed?

I went through every game Slaxx has moderated and couldn't find a single post restricted role (my methodology included Slaxx's ISO in every game searching for role pm's at the end of the game and then Firefox searching by "restri". This obviously doesn't mean that he would never include one so has anyone more familiar with Slaxx (I've never even played with Slaxx before) know if he would likely include a post restriction (or rather be very unlikely to include one)? For example, I was confident that hascow's restriction in SoS mafia was fake because I remembered having a conversation with Faraday about randomized or arbitrary role mechanics and he said he was opposed to using things like 50% chance of success, actions that were not standardized, unstandardized punishments, etc.).

Palisade

thinks he's clever, but a claim this early is simply bullshit. Nothing says, "Kill me now to spare a real PR" like claiming cop day one. When he doesn't wind up dead, it would basically be confscum. Palisade is townie.

I don't understand this at all, especially your foregone conclusion about his death tonight which hasn't happened proving he is town.

@ Xvart -

CSL having a lack of reasoning behind his reads doesn't mean anything. In any band he had different reads on me and Gaoth after we claimed mason.

What's your point? Having no reasoning meaning nothing means it is worthless to even ask? I fail to see how not asking for explanations is town motivated because asking for an explanation will either reveal one of three things:

1. He had no explanation to begin with and it was a false read for buddying purposes;
   
2. He had no explanation and made something up that contradicted his posted mentalilty; or,
   
3. He had a coherent reason for the vote.

In any case I want to know what his thinking was so what's the problem?

I completely agree with Wraith on Goath's "double speak" but I am a little wary of his extrapolation of the scum team with the conclusions he has drawn in 146. It seems a little like only seeing what he wants to see.

Regfan is town too. Nico, Wraith, and diddin are the scumteam. Let's wrap this up, lynch Nico first, and then nab his buddies.

Can you explain to me the connections and how these three players are tied together?

Wraith I'm sure on: just look at how many people ON THAT VERY LIST are saying "oh, Wraith is scummy but I won't vote him, I'll vote SOMEONE ELSE"

Nico has him as third scummiest. He votes CSL.
Zajnet calls him scum. He votes CSL.
Diddin "could" vote Wraith. He votes CSL.
CSL doesn't mention Wraith yet (>_>) and Pallisade is just lol.

Add Timeaster changing off Wraith to get on Nico
Fate voting him then loldropping it with Wraith's excuse post
Gaoth saying Wraith is scum but voting Nico

xvart gets off Wraith too (agree xvart is town, his hop off is the most protown one so far)
And now you're teasing me and saying he's scum but not voting for him...


Guarantee Wraith is scum since almost all of those interactions stink and he's at the centre of it all.

The problem is you've identified seven people who I agree have marginally suspicious reasons for not voting Wraith; but if there are three scum then five or four of them are town (depending on Wraith's alignment) so the suspiciousness is muddled because a majority of them are town. And furthermore, I don't think the suspicious behavior of the people not voting Wraith condemns Wraith as scum because it could be scum members egging on a town mislynch while staying off of it. Overall, I think this analysis has merit, but not for the reasons you put forward. For instance, I think if CSL ever flips town then Nico, Zjanet, and Diddin all score major scum points for trying to push an easy-ish mislynch. Those three could be pushing a counter wagon while feigning support for scumWraith, but I think the rest on your list is pushing the limit a little.

So either some people are scum trying to avoid being stuck with the blame for lynching a townie, or they're townies who doubt my scuminess and are afraid to go too far with their sheeping.

Care to share who you think falls into which category as you've outlined?

[xvart]

Slaxx hates post restrictions and think they detract from the game meaning the post restrction is 100% fake. There hasn't been any point stating so until now because him posting like that means I don't have to hear his illogical and non-sensical reasoning behind his reads (I asked to /Out if Mastin /Inned but caved last minute due to the player list being amazing and me being a pussy). I've seen Mastin act and fake things like this previously as town and I'm failing to see him claim cop this early on as mafia as a counter-claim (Which is likely for a role as common as cop) would lead towards his lynch.

Okay, that's good enough for me to consider the post restriction fake; but I would feel a whole lot better if this was public knowledge somewhere or was it a private conversation? Furthermore, as you pointed out, Mastin has apparently site flaked so I think mastin's motivations for doing this is irrelevant as it would actually be TwistedSpoon doing it. If TwistedSpoon felt he was under pressure due to the restriction he created it seems like a plausible claim to either snuff the suspicion and hope for no cop or no counter claim; or at the least get a claim out for his buddies to capitalize on. Why do you think the fake post restriction is mastin's master plan when you said he had site flaked and therefore not around to actually scheme?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: palisade

Don't get me wrong, I know where you're coming from the (More information is always better) angle but it's not the reasoning behind CSLs read that means anything it's his actual read, his reasoning is going to be piss poor or 'gut' regardless of his alignment thus asking him is fluff. Speaking of which I need to get to reading Nico later but I have to leave for cricket soon.

I think you are improperly assigning motive to my intentions. If CSL had come back and said "oh no guys, I didn't mean it" or "reaction fishing" or "lol stuff" that would be something worth digesting and possibly lynching over it. I'm never going to assume what someone else is going to say and therefore not bother to ask it because of that.

@xvart: I have expanded. I think the scum are Gaoth, Regfan, and Nico. Everyone else is in the other camp except for the people who really don't care for the bullshit the scum and stupid are trying to push on me.

Yes, sorry. I was reading your post in isolation and not in context of your previous post. Do you really believe that all of the scum would so heavily push the exact same agenda and the exact same methodology? Isn't that a little risky, especially if you were to flip town? I think the assumption that you are scum isn't a foregone conclusion but neither do I think it is without any merit at all; which brings me to you saying these three people are scum for trying to lynch me by exhibiting the exact same behavior when no scum team in their right mind would push through a lynch like that on Day 1.

Palisade "claimed" cop. If there is the slightest chance that he is indeed cop, scum would be retarded not to kill him tonight. So, by his claim, he should die tonight. To me, this is textbook distraction claiming. A real PR wouldnt want to out this early, a scum gambitting would not pick such a common role. Palisade is trying to draw the nightkill so that a real PR doesn't take the bullet. This is town move.

So you are saying that instead of actually scum hunting and playing the game they decided to fake a post restriction and then gambit for a NK while potentially outting a real cop? This is a town move how? And how is it a town move if it is apparently so obvious what he is doing and now everyone apparently knows that he isn't fake. If they are town they just screwed the town over by fabricating a debilitating and distracting restriction that they can't get out of now because if they do they are appear to be lying scum; plus they aren't going to get night killed now that everyone thinks they are LOL NK BAIT. Regardless, and I'm surprised I even have to say this, but there are plenty of reasons why a scum team would not target a claimed cop for a kill N1, so that line of thinking is invalid.

[xvart]

If both Wraith and Nico are scummy, then someone's wrong and one of them isn't scum because my link isn't a bus. I don't think it's Wraith.

Can you explain this the logic behind this and to what it references? I can barely process the ambiguous "someone", the relevance to your connection not being a bus, and the connection to the link you posted.

@xvart - the rest were included to show that even if the scummy people are scummy townies, there are plenty of others who could fit the bill. Yes I know this lessens the impact when looking to people OTHER THAN Wraith, but I think it's a legitimate concern when considering Wraith himself.

I see the converse (if all suspicious people are voting someone I'm less likely to think the person being voted is scum) but the way you are doing this is really only valid pending a Wraith flip, and even then it's still pretty weak. Especially considering the vote count right now:

CSL(3): Nicodemus, Diddin, Zajnet

The three people you have isolated out are the first and only three on the CSL wagon right now. If they were trying to push a counter wagon jumping in like that would be suicide if scumWraith ended up getting lynched and flipped town, unless of course they are smooth talkers but seeing the things you commented about their suspicion/voting list I don't think that is the case.

The most concerning thing about your line of suspicion is that your vote on Zajnet was beyond legitimate and very justified but then you jump to Wraith because of the lack of people voting him. You essentially stopped voting someone who was scummy because of his unique behavior and are now voting someone based on other people's scummy behaviors. Additionally, if the most justified reason for you pushing Zajnet was because he wasn't voting where he apparently should be then you should be voting either Nicodemus, Diddin, or Zajnet for the same reason and not the person you think they should be voting.

Gaoth is so town it hurts.

How is he so town it hurts? His observation is totally inaccurate unless you think the following behaviors are town behaviors (hint: they are not):

1. Faking a post restriction that eliminates all ability to effectively communicate;
   
2. Faking a post restriction that eliminates all ability to convey messages; and,
   
3. Claiming cop on D1 in an attempt to draw a NK and risking outting a real cop.

You didn't even comment on my observations when I quoted your invalid logic in my last post.

Furthermore, and this is unsubstantiated speculation, but I don't see the benefit of playing in a hydra and faking a debilitating post restriction as it defeats the purpose of having a collective hydra mind; and seriously, how much enjoyment would two people get out of a game if they faked a restriction that is so difficult to communicate that they only posted every once in a while with a message that is so short and ridiculous. So much for two minds seeing the same game and communicating about how to help the town win. And the lurking doesn't help. Andy said in SoS mafia that if you have a restriction and you are town you find a way to communicate reads. I haven't seen anything of the sort from paliside.

Paliside is scum. AV is likely scum.

[xvart]

Invalid logic quote of mine in your last post eh, not seeing it. You mention me in your third post, but I see nothing there to really bother talking about. I agree with you about the Vox read.

Sorry, I got you and Gaoth mixed up on the page flip. It was supposed to be directed at Gaoth, but he hadn't posted between my last post so it is irrelevant.

xvart: I still would like a Zajnet lynch today. However, my vote on Wraith was an attempt to get people to "put their money where their mouth is" and join me on the wagon. The absolute lack therein is very concerning and makes Wraith the best place for my vote atm.

Again the problem is you were (and supposedly still are) willing to lynch Zajnet for voting someone for Behavior X. Then you switched your vote to the target of a handful of people displaying Behavior X, one of which, I might add, is the person you were originally voting for (Zajnet).

Additionally, I believe you are making up things that don't fit with the chronological events of the game. The justification you are providing for abandoning your Zajnet scum read and wanting to lynch Wraith was to test other players and the fact that they didn't "put their money where there mouth is" makes your vote justified in the end. The assignment of "best place for your vote" comes after you already placed it.

Furthermore, in this post you said Wraith and Palasine were buddies of Zajnet. What was the connection between Wraith and Zajnet? Based on your posting you suggested that Wraith was scum based on his lack of vote while reading along and then even referenced this "case" later on.

I'll ask the same question about how Wraith and Palasine are buddies together and what their connection was. At that point in the game you haven't even mentioned them. Finally, what was the turnaround here when you said that the restriction "is fake but I'm not naive enough to think that automatically makes him scum." He was scum before and the only thing that came out between your contradictory posts is that the restriction is nearly confirmed fake.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AurorusVox

Adjust your votes accordingly.

[xvart]

On phone. Post 106 is where said palisade was evil with zjanet. More later.

[xvart]

I meant buddies for Zajnet. Not sure if there's a reason to connect Wraith and Pallisade up at this point, Pallisade hasn't even mentioned him as far as I can tell.

I know what you meant. Why is Wraith paired with Zajnet and why is Pallisade paired with Zajnet? Are they independently scummy and therefore buddies or are they connected by association to each other and therefore scum together?

Meh, Pallisade read shifted towards lolnull with his secret cop claim.

Really? Why? I've asked several people why they think that is a town play and given a play by play manual on why it is not. Perhaps you can explain. Do you believe the claim? If you do, why would a player fake a post restriction as a cop and claim cop in his third post of the game (under very little threat of being lynched at the time)? If not, why would a town player fake claim cop and risk outting a real cop that counterclaimed him?

I also like how you claimed you never stated a scum read on Pallisade and then when shown you did call them scum you immediately have a clear moment on when you decided to downgrade your read on him. If you didn't think you ever thought he was scum then how would you know now when he became nulltown?

[xvart]

Pallisade is null for me so asking me why he's paired with Zaj is irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant because I want to know why you ever thought Pallisade was scum.

xvart, you say it's a turnaround, but where have I ever said I thought Pallisade was scum?
I've not said Pallisade and Wraith are scumbuddies. That was timeater.

Stop confusing everyone with other people and maybe you'll stop being wrong in your reads :\

The part I really like, outside of the "I haven't said Pallisade was scum" when you clearly did say he was scum is the subtle discrediting of my overall posting shortly after I had mixed up a response I posted to the wrong person. A town response, even if you legitimately forgot you had a scum read on Pallisade, would have been the green portion of your post. Scum add in the blue portion. Town work with other people. Scum try to work with other people but also want to subtly discredit their attacker without dipping into OMGUS territory.

He seems like he's trying too hard to not make any enemies and feels very passive. Regfan isn't a priority right now and has towntelled a bit since my suspicion of him, but you really never can tell with Regfan. Voting for Nico is scummy to me because I have Nico as a townread, but I wouldn't lynch someone over it.

What towntells has regfan dropped?

Maybe I'm just looking to hard for a softclaim hero like in Parabollocks in 00's Band Mafia. It we remove the conspiracy theory, I still feel like the claim is fake, but Palisade isn't scum for claiming such a common role. I get that its setup spec, but I feel like the fake claim + fake post restriction is a town tell here.

Saying "I am a role I am COP" is not a softclaim by any definition. If you remove the "conspiracy theory" then you can't legitimately say "I feel like the fake claim + fake post restriction is a town tell here" because that is exactly what it is: a conspiracy theory. I love conspiracy theories as much as the next person (and probably more than most) but this one I won't even buy into because it is so ludicrous assigning town motivation to Pallisade's posting. Two scummy behaviors don't make a town no matter how you slice it. Pallisade's disappearance makes it even scummier because they are hoping it washes under the bridge with everything else going on.

[xvart]

I was talking about your read on me as scum being wrong ._.

With the insinuation that all my reads were wrong based on one posted directed at the wrong person.

I still think you're town. And having some time away from the thread, I also don't think I can blame you for thinking I'm scum. That comment was partially made for comedic effect in an attempt to blow off some steam, since I was frustrated at being called scum AGAIN in a game with some similar players to DEFCON 3.0 - I just don't think I play a very good town game anymore so sorry if that came across as rude, it's more anger at myself translating into attacking you unfairly (esp. considering you didn't make the mistake I thought you had)

xvart is probably town do not read that comment as discrediting him anymore

._.

I didn't think it was rude at all, so no harm there. I just think it was scum motivated. Also, this:

I want to know why you ever thought Pallisade was scum.

Btw, AV is now conftown.

How?

Also, I'm going to be V/LA for the next couple of days. I'm helping to move my brother to college, and then turning around and moving myself to college. I'll try to keep track of the thread on my ipod, but there won't be much posting. I'll be back by Sunday night.

I'm sorry, Nicodemus. Your lurk to victory option has timed out. Would you like to phone a scumbuddy?

Last I checked it Sunday night hadn't occurred yet.

Regfan hasn't dropped towntells xvart, plz tell me you're voting him

Not dropping town tells is not a lynchable offense.

[xvart]

TOWNTELLS DROP TOWNTELLS

SCUM DON'T

If only it were this easy or clear cut. Someone not dropping town tells does not mean he/she is scum.

I use "towntelled" a synonym for generally acted more pro-town. My main suspicion of him was for a BS lurk callout on me that was a Gambit to get a read on me.

I don't really buy this because you used it as an action verb ("Regfan has town telled since my suspicion of him"). In any case, can you show me another place where you have used "town telled" as acting less suspicious?

This game is frustrating me based on the sheer volume of scummy people.

[xvart]

I can read AV like a book. I am pretty sure he thought you were town. Then you voted him. He just got back to having a townread on you. He's town. There was more and I think I called him town before that too but this is enough. Your bandwagon is definitely on a townie. I have a lot of history with AV too so I'm 100% confident in that read, at least.

Hey Timeater, you are beginning to become scum. Slowly but surely.

Be that as it may, I'll be very clear: I'm only interested in lynching AV or Palisade today; maybe Diddin.

I've got an AV-town read. Last time he was scum he buddied the crap outta me.

An isolated incident, especially one so silly, does not influence my read any.

I read that post and immediately thought: "Anyone voting AV is scum."

What post did you read that oozed townie goodness that anyone voting AV must be scum?

its seriously Regfan/Pallisade/Xvart (or Timeeater)


I'll take my night kill like a good soldier, but we SURE AS FUCK are lynching one of these today.

I'm totally up for a Palisade lynch. Several people have Palisade as "scum lynch tomorrow." I don't think I ever got a legitimate reason for why we should be waiting to lynch Palisade?

In fact, screw it. This is the lynch today and I will entertain no other lynch suggestions unless someone seriously scumslips.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Palisade

[xvart]

All right, time to break out an actual case.

Now that it has been determined that this town is going to blindly do whatever you determine to do?

NOW, the way TOWN can approach this game is that EVERYONE is more likely town than scum, and we need to SORT THROUGH THEM to get to the scum.

I actually approach the game the exact opposite. Everyone is likely scum in my opinion and I evaluate the behaviors and motivations of the people and decide to lynch the one most likely to be scum. I post town reads very rarely and only in very unique circumstances.

Why? From my experience Fate scum/Fate town on page one and two is pretty difficult to differentiate.

"Why is Fate town???"

There's so many scum this game it makes me sick. I think I'm most confident about

WHOAWHOA WUT. LIke Regfan said there are just players DRIPPING with mislynch this game, it makes him "sick" with joy at how easy he;ll have it.

This is a total misrepresentation of what I said, and it should be obvious. I said "There's so many scum this game it makes me sick" meaning there are a lot of people exhibiting scummy behavior and you somehow think I, as scum, was laughing publicly about how easy it will be to get mislynches? Really? I'll remind you just because you want to see something doesn't mean it is there.

I think if CSL ever flips town then Nico, Zjanet, and Diddin all score major scum points for trying to push an easy-ish mislynch.

Wow THREE people get to be scumreads for the sacrifice of only ONE mislynch!?!!? IT CANT GET BETTER THAN THAT TRADE.

You truncated my post to make your point. If you had left the post in it's entirety your point becomes invalid. The part you snipped out was "

Overall, I think this analysis has merit, but not for the reasons you put forward. For instance,

I think if CSL ever flips town..." The context of the conversation was discussing AV's analysis and how I think there was benefit of the wagon (or lack of wagon) analysis. Nowhere have I suggested lynching CSL so your sensationalize analysis is further invalidated.

How is he so town it hurts? His observation is totally inaccurate unless you think the following behaviors are town behaviors (hint: they are not):
Faking a post restriction that eliminates all ability to effectively communicate;
Faking a post restriction that eliminates all ability to convey messages; and,
Claiming cop on D1 in an attempt to draw a NK and risking outting a real cop.

"STOP READING PEOPLE AS TOWN FUCKING HELL"

Paliside is scum. AV is likely scum.

For all the PARAGRAPHS he gives on how people ARENT town, he sure as fuck doesn't explain his bullshit read on AUROUSVOX.

I've explained my scum read on AV in sufficient detail. It isn't contained in one post if that is what you mean but rather over the course of my conversation with him.

What towntells has regfan dropped?

"WUT MORE TOWNREADS???"

If only it were this easy or clear cut. Someone not dropping town tells does not mean he/she is scum.

"You cant lynch scum that arent scumslipping hardcore... you need to lynch... THE CLAIMED COP INSTEAD! FUFUFUUFUFUF"

Misrepresentation again. I didn't say you can't lynch someone on the basis of not scumslipping; but you were pushing the angle of someone not dropping town tells should be lynched. And furthermore, I have no problem lynching a claimed cop when the claimed cop is obviously a lying scumbag. Obviously you agree with me on Palisade since you think they are scum with me; although you don't care about lynching Palisade today. You want to wait until tomorrow. So how can you attack me for wanting to lynch a claimed cop when you have also said the claimed cop is scum? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'm totally up for a Palisade lynch. Several people have Palisade as "scum lynch tomorrow." I don't think I ever got a legitimate reason for why we should be waiting to lynch Palisade?

In fact, screw it. This is the lynch today and I will entertain no other lynch suggestions unless someone seriously scumslips.

^Lol this entire post. Pallisade now has a more than decent chance of being town with our Xvart scumflip.

You will be sorely disappointed because me flipping scum will never happen in this game.

"Be that as it may" - doesn't that mean "Sure, even if that's true"?

1

And since Hindu has said he reads me as town 100%...

2

If what he says is true...

3

That would make me town.
And yet you'd still be interested in lynching me?

4

1

I was using the phrase as "regardless of someone else saying they think they can read you 100% of the time" and not "I agree that he can read you 100% of the time and agree that he must be correct in his read this time"

2

Pardon me if I am not going to just fall in line if someone claims to be able to read another player 100% of the time. The fact remains is that, as scum, your goal is to appear town. If you know someone is in the game that can read you as town more often than not you will try even harder to emulate that behavior.

3

The operative word being IF, and only in the context of IF he is correct this game.

4

Yes.

xvart says there are good reasons for me to be voting Zajnet but never votes him himself...especially interesting since he suggests I should have stayed on Zajnet instead of Wraith. Zajnet is obv. not getting lynched today, whereas Wraith is a potentially successful wagon, he'd rather move me onto the wagon that has no support to get me off the other one? Whilst taking credit if Zajnet ever does flip scum ("Oh look, I pushed him over Wraith to AV") and making my vote stick in limbo rather than on his other buddy...

You're taking what I said out of context. I was implicitly talking about your vote hop from Zajnet to Wraith and how you had stated a legitimate and justified reason for voting Zajnet when you jumped to Wraith on the basis of wanting to see if any of these scummy people would come and vote with you. You had a justified vote on someone and then you moved it to a very weak and logically inconsistent vote. And at the time of your vote switch you can't legitimately say that Zajnet was obv not getting lynched because the lynch leaders were Nico at 3, Wraith at 2, and Zajnet at 2. You are now justifying your vote with things that transpired after your vote. And even if it were true, why are you just now saying that you jumped off of Zajnet because it wasn't going anywhere?

The whole point, which is illustrated in your post 155, is that you are advocating the lynch of someone based on

other people's

scummy behavior.

He uses my analysis of WraithScum to turn it into three "scumpoints" as Fate outlines, in an attempt to deflect attention off of Wraith...possibly in an attempt to discredit the wagon. Early RVS bus with the first vote?

I thought his hop off was pro-town, but if we look for scum motivation in the move we do find it

(obv. get off his buddy at the earliest opportunity).

lol @ the "I need to make xvart look like scum which is difficult because I've called him town on a half dozen occasions, so if I look more closely at what I originally thought was a town motivated behavior it is actually scum motivated."

Also it felt like he was trying to discredit my idea that Wraith and Zajnet are scum together, when afaict he thought I had a legit reason for voting Zajnet and even thought that the cases for WraithScum "had some merit". Now conveniently both of them are outside of his lynch pool for today.

Again, the context of the quote in question was directly referencing your vote hop. You had a stated legitimate and justified reason for voting Zajnet and then you bailed for some crazy plan to see if scummy people would follow you onto Wraith. Scum can vote with legitimate reasons. So the problem is what?

AV if you don't move your fucking vote to Xvart in yoru next post after agreeing with my case I will be very fuckin pissed. If you agree with my case, then my reads don't suck and my READS are that we aren't kynching ZAJNET OR WRATIH today, so move your fucking vote.

AV isn't going to move his vote to me without undermining himself. He's called me town on several occasions and I suspect that he really doesn't want me to flip because it will give more credibility to what I've been saying.

[xvart]

I'll make a proper post tomorrow responding to yours, but "AV won't vote me" was the wrong thing to say.

So you admit to voting me just because I goaded you into it? What changed since your last post and why didn't you vote me then? Do you think my rebuttal of Fate's selective, out of context, and trucated quoting was scummy and is that why you voted me now? Or were you just setting the stage for a slow transition to voting me?

LIKE I EVEN NEED TO READ IT OR RESPOND TO IT, ALL I SEE IS STRIPES OF YOU WHINING AND FLAILING AND DEFENDING YOURSELF WITH NO OFFENSE INVOLVED

So you expected me to turn around and vote you just because you threw together a piece meal selection of quotes to fit what you want it to fit? Nah. If you're not going to read my responses at least respond to this one part:

I think if CSL ever flips town then Nico, Zjanet, and Diddin all score major scum points for trying to push an easy-ish mislynch.

Wow THREE people get to be scumreads for the sacrifice of only ONE mislynch!?!!? IT CANT GET BETTER THAN THAT TRADE.

You truncated my post to make your point. If you had left the post in it's entirety your point becomes invalid. The part you snipped out was "

Overall, I think this analysis has merit, but not for the reasons you put forward. For instance,

I think if CSL ever flips town..." The context of the conversation was discussing AV's analysis and how I think there was benefit of the wagon (or lack of wagon) analysis. Nowhere have I suggested lynching CSL so your sensationalize analysis is further invalidated.

[xvart]

Why do you think I find your response to Fate scummy?
I made it pretty clear that it was what you said about me not voting you that pushed me into placing the vote.

Because my previous post to Fate (and a little to you) was the only thing I posted since your previous post. And you didn't indicate anything to suggest my challenge to you was actually scummy; just that it was the "wrong thing to say", hence the goading you into voting me.

[xvart]

Fate doesn't make good points at all. For those who need a concise version of why his "case" is not valid:

1. First, it isn't a scumtell that I question people's town reads, especially ones that are either contrary to my own or not obvious, so you can scratch the parts of his case about me questioning CSLs page 2 town read on Fate, me questioning Goath's unexplained town read based on a faulty read of
2. Palisade, and my questioning diddin's out of the blue town read on Regfan;
   
3. You can also take out Fate's interpretation of me saying there were so many scum the first few pages as I am scum, I love the fact that there are so many possible mislynches, and I am in fact so giddy about this that I just have to post about it since it is a totally unsubstantiated and complete stretch;
   
4. You can also remove the "three scumreads for the sacrifice of one mislynch since he truncated the quote to fit his needs and I never suggested that we lynch CSL, which was the basis of his point;
   
5. He says I haven't given an explanation of my scum read on AV when I actually have; and,
   
6. The now town read on Palisade when we were previously paired together is also a stretch.

That's his case in a nutshell and why it is a piece meal of stretching, fabricating, misrepresenting, and convienent trucation of quotes.

Palisade's recent fake coded message says:
scum in ozt scum... Thanks for that townie goodness.

The clincher though is Xvarts continuous avoidance from even attempting to question or converse with Palisade. Xvarts essentially voting a claimed cop and saying "Well you suspect the cop too so how is it scummy for me to be voting someone we both suspect!" when it's incredibly obvious that there's minimal reasoning for scum to claim cop so openly on D1 AND we can learn a lot more about their legitimacy via letting them investigate tonight.

Cool. It is obvious why scum would claim cop under little actual pressure other than discussion about how the restriction is obviously faked where there is even less motivation as town to claim cop under little actual pressure. The clincher is that we have collectively established that the post restriction is fake and he still hangs on to it despite us knowing it is fake. What benefit is it to town to keep up the charade of not being able to effectively communicate and lurk around and NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO COMMUNICATE. As town, he should drop the facade since the cat is already out of the bag and... you know... be town and help us find scum.

Oh, and the clincher you mention about my "continuous avoidance from even attempting to question or converse with Palisade is quite laughable" as how do you suggest I go about talking to someone who has demonstrated they are only going to prod dodge and communicate like this?

Also, Regan, you haven't answered my question since you got back:

Slaxx hates post restrictions and think they detract from the game meaning the post restrction is 100% fake. There hasn't been any point stating so until now because him posting like that means I don't have to hear his illogical and non-sensical reasoning behind his reads (I asked to /Out if Mastin /Inned but caved last minute due to the player list being amazing and me being a pussy). I've seen Mastin act and fake things like this previously as town and I'm failing to see him claim cop this early on as mafia as a counter-claim (Which is likely for a role as common as cop) would lead towards his lynch.

Okay, that's good enough for me to consider the post restriction fake; but I would feel a whole lot better if this was public knowledge somewhere or was it a private conversation? Furthermore, as you pointed out, Mastin has apparently site flaked so I think mastin's motivations for doing this is irrelevant as it would actually be TwistedSpoon doing it. If TwistedSpoon felt he was under pressure due to the restriction he created it seems like a plausible claim to either snuff the suspicion and hope for no cop or no counter claim; or at the least get a claim out for his buddies to capitalize on. Why do you think the fake post restriction is mastin's master plan when you said he had site flaked and therefore not around to actually scheme?

Since my message is getting lost I'll post some bullets later on my suspects and why their behavior is scum motivated.

[xvart]

Of course XVART is going to say the case against him sucks.

Look past the lies, look at the entire game, wholistically, he is DEFINITE scum.

If I weren't so short on time I could elaborate why, but trust me this fuck is scum.

You can kiss that doctor protection you were so adamant about getting tonight goodbye when I flip. Fate still hasn't elaborated on why he truncated my post when looking at the quote in its entirely invalidates the point he was attempting to make.

xvart, how do you know I'm a mislynch?

Thanks for reading along so closely. Please show me where I said you were a mislynch.

@ Xvart -

I don't disagree, Palisade

should

be stopping this obvious fake posting restriction right about now or at least attempt to communicate understandably with it but him not doing so doesn't make him scum, just a terrible player and pushing them on that is opportunistic as fuck. I don't see how there's "Obvious scum motivation to claim cop under little pressure" at all, especially a role as common as cop whereas I do see him doing it as town to create some sort of authority or leadership over the day. There is also a difference between them being difficult to communicate with and not even attempting to communicate with them, you haven't once directed anything towards them in hope of furthering your read yet you were content enough stating that your vote wouldn't move of them.

The obvious scum motivation is that as scum Palisade would have recognized, even without votes, that people were seriously questioning the fake restriction. They probably didn't know about Slaxx hating post restrictions when they did it and when everyone starts talking about scum lying the obvious thought process is "I'm going to get lynched sometime, I can either hopefully cut this by claiming cop even though there is no tangible pressure if there isn't a cop in this game or at the least I can get the real cop to counterclaim."

There is zero town motivation to claim cop with no tangible pressure

; and the people that suggested it was a gambit to draw the NK are even more delusional since he risked outing a real cop and what scum team is going to kill a post restricted person who appears scummy? And I'm seriously laughing at the suggestion of claiming cop to claim authority or leadership over the day. If that was actually the case, his leadership and authority is terrible simply by the fact that he hasn't done anything to even try to communicate.

And finally, I'm not going to make an effort to talk to someone who has no interest in communicating when I believe that person is scum. It's just a waste of time.

It looks like Nico is going to be able to lurk out of his lynch today? Hell no. Move your votes. xvart can keep flailing but if anything we keep him around because I'm too lazy to decode what palisade is saying.

How is my "flailing" related to you being too lazy to decode what Pallisade is saying, especially when I already decoded the last fake message.

[xvart]

The flailing isn't related to me being lazy. I'm just lazy in general.

No. They are connected; you said: xvart can keep flailing but if anything we keep him around

because

I'm too lazy to decode what palisade is saying". What does your inability or lack of desire to decode what Palisade is saying have anything to do with keeping me around despite my alleged flailing?

So that means IFF he's right that I'm town, you want to see me lynched. Hurrdurr.

You really want to keep arguing this? It's making you look petty and desperate. IF he's right that you're town, the operative word being IF. I don't believe he is right (that much should be painfully obvious) therefore you are not cleared of town because so-and-so player thinks you're town. It's unconfirmed third party information with no supporting evidence. If he wants to provide me with evidence to show all the games you guys have played together and all the times he's called you town and you have been town and the games where you were scum and he was town and he couldn't read you as town he is free to do so.

If -YOU- don't think Zajnet was a justified lynch, if you're going off what -I- think, then why the hell are you judging the Wraith vote as unjustified? You can't have it both ways. I have a legit reason for voting both fmpov. You've either gotta accept that or admit that you're judging it on your own basis.

Because I'm assessing your motivations based on what you have typed, posted, and said. Scum can vote for justified reasons just as much as town can vote for justified reasons. Your vote on Wraith is horrible based on the reason you stated for voting Zajnet originally. You jumped ship on a stated justified reason to vote someone

because people other than the person you were voting were behaving scummy

.

The fact you're hovering between the two makes you scum.

The fact that you are just now bringing this up is convenient now that other people are voting me and not before when you still thought I was town.

Not really. IF CSL ever gets mislynched then your "lolthreescum" comes into play. It doesn't require you to push his lynch, but you're setting up for the future.

Weren't you basically saying the same thing? Everyone on the CSL wagon at the time were people you were most suspicious of when you voted Wraith to test these people. You never denied that you thought these people were pushing a counterwagon to scum Wraith after you decided he was definitely scum because of the people on the CSL wagon refusing to vote for Wraith.

Palisade

:

The claimed cop with a fake post restriction. Let's look at this objectively.
He claimed "cop" with a sum total of zero votes on him (Fate had just removed his vote). There had been discussion on lynching Palisade from AV to Fate. What benefit is there to claim cop with zero votes placed? And strangely enough nobody has been able to generate a town reason for this claim at this time of the game. The scum benefit of claiming with a fake restriction is that he is going to go down sooner or later and with the limited discussion about lynching him based on his fake post restriction he could have realized he was going down sooner or later and possibly sooner so he claimed a role with two possible outcomes:

1. There would be no counter claim and he could go on his merry way;
   
2. There would be a counter claim and the real cop would be outted to be killed during the night.

Furthermore, Palisade has not made any effort to communicate anything since his claim. His only messages since his claim (Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:44 pm) are:

1. Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:51 pm - no message
   
2. Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:22 am - no message
   
3. Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:38 am - scum in ozt scum???

So, if he was town, he has now unnecessarily claimed, waited three and half days to post no message, and waited two more days to post a message that doesn't make sense. It's obvious he is sitting back and riding the fake cop claim for all it is worth while everyone else gets distracted by other things. Everyone has acknowledged that the restriction is fake and evidence has been provided that Slaxx would not include a post restriction because they distract from the game. A town person under these circumstances would drop the facade and actually try and participate yet Palisade continues to be a lurking scumbag. Town with debilitating post restrictions find a way to communicate.

My prediction for tomorrow is one of two things is going to happen.

1. Palisade will somehow find a way to communicate that he got a guilty on one of his partners so he can buy town cred and ride it to the end like in hascow in Storm of Swords; or,
   
2. Palisade's partners are going to immediately call for his lynch tomorrow and buy town cred with their tenacity since that is the general consensus (lynch him tomorrow).

These two scenarios only work effectively if the scum team secures a mislynch today because it would extremely challenging to sacrifice a teammate if we successfully lynched a scum today (the would be down two people at the end of D2).

AurousVox

:

AV's voting pattern and suspicion justifications is not sound. He originally voted Zajnet for reasons that were justified (having a reason to vote someone and voting elsewhere). He then said Wraith was scum with Zajnet along with Palisade who was scum with Zajnet (no explanations on why they both were independently scum partners with Wraith). He then says "Wraith is scummy, as I pointed out earlier, but I'm more confident in ZajnetScum". Where did he point out why Wraith was scummy? He didn't. But he then transitions his vote to Wraith because "So many people calling Wraith scum but so few voting for him".

He transitioned his vote from someone who was uniquely scummy because of independent behavior to someone because other scummy people's behaviors. The real kicker is one of those people who is not voting Wraith is none other than Zajnet, the person he was previously voting. So not only is he not voting someone for behavior unique to that person, but

he is now not voting the person he was previously voting who has been identified as being one of the suspicious people he is supposedly testing

. Furthermore, if you think people aren't voting but casting suspicion on someone because they are softly busing you lynch them for suspicious behavior, and if they flip scum you then push the person you think they were softly bussing and not voting. And finally, he is voting Wraith to test six, maybe seven people, and by virtue of standard setup designs means the people he is testing a predominately populated with town members.

This is illustrated by this quote:

xvart: I still would like a Zajnet lynch today. However, my vote on Wraith was an attempt to get people to "put their money where their mouth is" and join me on the wagon. The absolute lack therein is very concerning and makes Wraith the best place for my vote atm.

Here AV essentially says that it was a test to see if the people acting scummy would vote someone and because they won't his vote is now justified after the fact.

He also uses discrediting tactics on me (someone whom he has identified as town a couple of times) by generalizing all my reads as false because I questioned him calling Palisade scum (which he did but denied).

He then uses semantics to softly paint me as scum ("be that as it may") while he builds up to voting me. He's obviously trying to back off of his multiple town reads of me and says "I thought his hop off was pro-town, but if we look for scum motivation in the move we do find it ", but he obviously can't immediately vote me because of his past comments so he is slowly building up to it. He only voted me when I goaded him into it. In the same post he takes out of context what I had been questioning him on and attempting to undermine me by saying I was agreeing with his reads.

[xvart]

WALLS ARE SCUMMY

Cool story, bro.

[xvart]

You really want to keep arguing this? It's making you look petty and desperate. IF he's right that you're town, the operative word being IF

And the chain was IF x THEN y.
x was AV is town
y was you want to lynch me.

"If" AV is town, "then" you want to lynch me.

No.

IF Hindu is correct on his belief that you are town.

, which I clearly don't believe and no proof or further elaboration has been provided. Seriously, that is exactly what you quoted. The logical implication truth table you are pushing only works if I had said I believe Hindu can accurately read you. Where have I said that?

This isn't a rebuttal of my point.

It is; but if you think I'm missing it then I missed your point. It appears that you are trying to discredit me by saying I agree with your reads and I am calling you scum for that. I'm not, I'm calling you scum because of your behavior and your posting unique to your stated motivations and priorities. I really don't know how to say this more clearly: you moved your vote from Zajnet (whom you had a posted justified reason for voting) to Wraith because seven other players were unwilling to vote for him (their scummy behavior). You are voting someone because of someone elses scummy behavior. If you think they are joined you should have been voting the people most scummy, like... wait for it... the person you were already voting for. If anything, your little test exercise should have been further evidence that Zajnet was scum; and if he flipped scum, then looked at Wraith for the possible not wanting to bus a partner.

Well that's because it's only transpired recently that you're hovering between the two.
I said I found it scummy that you called it justified, then you tried to back off from that, and I'm calling that scummy too. How can I call that scummy when you hadn't tried to back away yet?

I'm not backing off of anything. The only thing we have to go on are what people post. I thought your Zajnet vote was justified, as you had stated why you were voting him for his specific behavior.

Your Wraith vote, once again, was because of other people being scummy; not Wraith being scummy

. That is not a justified vote compared to your previous Zajnet vote.

I was saying Wraith is scummy, people are fannying around about it.

No, you didn't. You never identified and have never clarified why you originally though Wraith was scummy other than he is scum with Zajnet; which is further proof that you should have kept your vote on Zajnet since you had more posted reasons to suspect him.

I identified what everyone had done but I'm not chaining lynches. Plus mine was looking for connections between two scum - i.e. if Wraith flips scum, I'll know where to start looking.

You were chaining lynches for after a town flip, which is opportunistic and scummy.

Yes, a town flip I wasn't pushing, voting, etc. You are also negating the context of the full quote (the same as Fate): "Overall, I think this analysis has merit, but not for the reasons you put forward. For instance, I think if CSL ever flips town..." It was said in conjunction with me discussing how your Wraith vote analysis was faulty and you were incorrectly valuing it. Is my observation incorrect? But, your last sentence seems to know that CSL is a town flip and how would you know that?

[xvart]

Xvart... ill give you a pass this time and ONLY this time because you used area tags and really seem to give a damn.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CSL

He seriously can't be allowed to live after his last post.

Oh no you don't. You don't come in out of the blue with your shit case and champion it for pages and then drop it. If you're going to champion that shitcase you better be ready to see it through. What? Are you disappointed that I didn't immediately come back after you posted your case and call you scum so you could go "LOL FLAILING SCUMZ" and then get everyone to jump on board? I'm not going to be the person you spent pages attempting to discredit without even responding to how shitty your case actually was just so you can try and get me lynched another day. Lynch me today or admit your case sucks and shut your mouth.

You couldn't possibly be the third scum member could you? Would you be that obvious? This whole time I've been trying to figure out if there was scum motivation behind that case or if it was just misguided Fate going spastic; but why you picked me out of the blue to pull some nonsense "LOL SCUM PUBLICLY HUNTING MISLYNCHES" case is beyond me; unless you were trying to silence me or discredit me or distract the town. Is that why you added to your case that I'm scum because I didn't immediately mount an offense on you? Did it make you sad that I didn't fall into your little plan? I think you were trying to paint me into a corner hoping I went off the deep end like just another chump to dig my own grave; but I'm not just another chump who automatically thinks that someone attacking me must be scum.

I was 50/50 with being scum up until you backed off like you did. You unvoting me like that almost seals the deal for me in regard to you being scum.

And I just have to add that hunting for mislynches is the most atrocious thing I've heard considering the focus I've had on the people I suspect.

[xvart]

Uh...
Wait.

So I'm scum who, so close yo your mislynch, UNtunneled and voted elsewhere?

I admit that you being scum is highly circumstantial and I only brought it up at this time because of your unvote while "saving" my lynch for another day. It is not something I'm interested in pursuing without some flips first.

Hunting mislynches IS scumtastic, and you won't live to endgame if I can help it.

BUT there's no way I'm lynching you over the devoid of content CSL. You should be happy about this not turn full retard

If you won't let me live until endgame you might as well finish what you started while my wagon is still hot. If you want to be lynching void of content players how about this void of content player who is also a liar?

The only part of my case ill adit was bad was where I accidentally misrepped you. I let it stand for a few pages to see peoples rreaction to it, and you know the BEST reaction? CSL. He buddied up to me and was like "Fates point is valid" and shit, when it clearly WASNT.

THAT'S why I unvoted you, THAT'S why I switched onto CSL. So pull your head out of your ass and vote real scum with me.

There are plenty of other reasons you were spouting off for my lynch other than the singular misrep to which you are referring. I wouldn't think that one admitted flawed portion of your case would undermine the entirety of your case to warrant an unvote.

[xvart]

Labor Day. Should have a post tonight.

[xvart]

Let's get this started off with one main point everyone should know: there is such a thing as town flailing and scum flailing.

The point of this commentary is what? What is your assessment?

Hey, Palisade. Not that it matters since your post restriction is fake and there are no parameters for your restriction and no penalty for breaking it even if there were, but it might help if you actually tried to communicate. You know, something like this:
VOTE: Hey
VOTE: My
VOTE: Restriction
VOTE: Is
VOTE: Fake.
VOTE: I am scum.

Are you seriously attempting to imply that Palisade-scum claimed cop in hope to out the legitimate cop and trade themselves 1v1 because people suspected their posting restriction was fake in a mini where it's 3 scum maximum? There was minimal danger of them being lynched EVEN when their posting restriction wasn't being believed, the amount of other players suspected wouldn't have made claiming cop as mafia ideal nor likely. Is it stupid to claim, yes. Does them claiming mean that they're mafia, fuck no. Seriously read through Mastins games if you want to look at stupid claiming, attempting to continuously push that their claim makes them mafia is stupid. We're not testing a cop claim D1, not happening and you need to stop attempting to push it.

My point is there is more scum motivation for claiming cop under those circumstances at that game state than there is town motivation. Plus, the part that seems to be overlooked is that they are making no effort to help AT ALL; which is indicative of scum faking post restrictions. Scum use post restrictions as a way to not help. Town find ways to help. Seriously, how hard would it be to once every two or three days (which seems to be their posting frequency) to actually spend some time to make sure their minimal message was actually accurate? We've had at least two messages that were unreadable and a few others that had no message at all.

[xvart]

I referenced Andy earlier in SoS mafia and I finally went back and dug this up as it is much more concise and a better way to say it:

Seriously, guys, if you've ever played with a PR its not that different from playing normally. It doesn't change how you scumhunt, or how often you post, or how much content you post. It only changes HOW you post. Cow was still active lurking, not contributing, and hardly ever voted late-game.

[xvart]

Fate.
Do you think your entire xvart case crumbles because of a "mistake" that wasn't even a mistake? What you were saying was right in spirit. Why are you letting it drop so easily?

What is this nonsense? Right in spirit? A mistake that wasn't even a mistake?

Thoughts on a CSL-xvart connection?

What are your thoughts on this "connection"? You had a terrible slow creep onto my wagon so what do you think the connection is? I'd like to get this response pre-CSL flip before the game is closed if possible.

Fate alive tomorrow = Fate lynch?
'kay? 'kay.

Pay attention everyone. This is the single scummiest post of the game.

Hindu, thoughts on Fate scum with xvart?

Why are you so intent trying to tie everyone to me as scum partners. This post especially looks like you are trying to get permission to vote CSL at the deadline on the condition that CSL might be scum with unflipped me.

AV is still trying way to hard. CSL and AV are buddies.

VOTE: CSL

And no claim. Awesome.

[xvart]

I don't think we can swing a Wraith or Palisade lynch at this point, and I don't want to lynch xvart, so.

What is this? You've barely said two words about Palisade all game other than on a couple town lists and keeping him alive to test his claim. What is this nonsense about swinging a Palisade lynch at this late juncture? Where were you all day and why do you all the sudden want to swing a lynch in his favor?

[xvart]

As you can see in that reads list you linked to, I've had palisade as one of my stronger scum reads throughout the game.

Sorry, yes; I overreacted. I didn't realize it was a progressive list (i.e. town to scum in order).

AND YOUR "HAHEAHEHAEHAH I CAUGHT XVART" SHT IS PISSING E OFF, SINCE I CONVINCE

YOU

THAT HE WAS SCUM, NOT THE OTHER FUCKING WAY AROUND.

Negating the "caught" part you forgot to mention that I was the one that actually taunted him into voting me. He was still fence sitting/slow creeping to voting after your post.

[xvart]

My plan to get Fate through to D2 alive worked, but why the fuck wasn't Hindu protected?

Vote: xvart

This is so scummy it isn't even funny. In my experience, scum pat themselves on the back in public when they think they can get away with it. Seriously, you kept Fate alive? With your super scummy post? And I can't believe you are seriously asking why someone wasn't protected. There could be a thousand possible reasons. Let's add on some more to AV's scummy behavior:

1. Voting for someone based not on that person being scummy but rather based on other people being scummy;
   
2. Super scummy post "If Fate is alive tomorrow we lynch him";
   
3. Patting himself of the back for being responsible for keeping Fate alive.

There is no way that a scum team would be like "oooohhh AV is got so much town cred and so much muscle in this town that he's going to run the lynch on Fate and everyone is just going to follow suit so we don't need to worry about killing questionable Fate; especially because of his super scummy post."

Gloriously, gloriously waiting for Palisade to post so I can vote them.

Vote for whom? Do you know Palisade is going to come in with a guilty or something?

[xvart]

Counterquestion: Do you think Fate is town?

I don't have a solid read on Fate right now either way; see this post.

We have a guilty on AurorusVox

.

My prediction for tomorrow is one of two things is going to happen.

1. Palisade will somehow find a way to communicate that he got a guilty on one of his partners so he can buy town cred and ride it to the end like in hascow in Storm of Swords; or,
   
2. Palisade's partners are going to immediately call for his lynch tomorrow and buy town cred with their tenacity since that is the general consensus (lynch him tomorrow).

These two scenarios only work effectively if the scum team secures a mislynch today because it would extremely challenging to sacrifice a teammate if we successfully lynched a scum today (the would be down two people at the end of D2).

So basically the first scenario. Good to know.

VOTE: AurousVox

Hey Palisade. In your blathering about how intentionally cryptic your fake code was and how silly we all were for being unable to decode it you neglected to answer the following things:

1. Why you decided it was a good idea to fake a post restriction;
   
2. Why you claimed cop under no pressure and for no reason;
   
3. Why you were prod dodging all D1;
   
4. How you prioritized what you were attempting to say and why you decided it was important to tell us that Fate was annoying and not anything that was actually helpful; and,
   
5. Why you actually suspected who you did and why, other than you "didn't like what AV was posting. At all."

xvart why didn't you vote me in your opening post today?

Because I hadn't decided if I was going to vote Palisade or vote you. Nice question, though; so the relevant question is why are you not voting the person who you say is scum 1v1 trading for you? Why are you still voting me?

[xvart]

Palisade - please provide me with some links to other games you've been a cop.

[xvart]

*Sheep Noises*

*No Content Since Day Began Noises*

[xvart]

Because I'm waiting to see. If town wants my blood today to prove Pallisade scum tomorrow, I'll self vote. If town wants to trust me (lolI'mnottalkingaboutyouxvart) then I'll vote Pallisade.

This is as good as a scum claim in my book. Not voting the person who has to be scum from his perspective and won't vote Palisade unless everyone else agrees?

Magua is the only one who has his head screwed on :\

And yet you still aren't voting the person from your alleged town perspective is confirmed scum.

Its just crazy enough....

to work....

VOTE: PALLISADE

HEAHHEHAEHEAHHAHA DIE DIE DIE

COP IN A ZOMBIE GAME?

THAT CLAIMED D1 FOR NO FUCKIN REASON?

Interesting that I was saying that since... his claim.

XVART TRYING TO LINE UP LYNCHES TOO

"PALLISADE STILL SCUM, BUT HES BUSSING HIS BUDDY TROLOLOL"

THEN HE LYNCHES PALLISADE TOMORROW FOR CRED?

What you smoking? I can't believe you are even trying to pull this. Lining up lynches? How? I want to lynch them both and have said as much on multiple occasions; order is of no importance to me since they are both scum

independent of each other

.

IM SAVING YOUR ASS, LYNCHING SCUM, AND CONFIRIMING YOU IN THE PROCESS.

AND YOU THINK IM FUCKING SCUM.

BULLFUCKINGSHIT

And this is why I think you might be the final piece of the scum puzzle. I think that Palisade faked this restriction without consulting the rest of his team and it caught them off guard, and they were scrambling D1 because they didn't know what to do, especially when it was so obviously faked. Trust me, I know the feeling. The only way for scum faking obvious post restriction is to get as much out of it as possible (i.e. as many mislynches as possible i.e. uhhh... we can lynch him tomorrow) before serving them up on the martyr plate. The only problem (for them) is, in their scrambling I think the entire scum team, through their actions, tied themselves to Palisade in such a way that when one one falls they all fall.

Personally, I would like to know how many mislynches we have before we go lynching people

just to test a claim

. That's why my vote stays on Wraith.

Well, I seriously doubt that we are in LYLO right now so what does it matter? Regardless, your vote needs to be on one of Palisade or AV since one is lying or they both are lying. There is no possible permutation that they both are telling the truth. What way to suggest resolving this pressing issue other than voting Wraith and sitting around?

[xvart]

So much for self hammering. But it was such a town thing to say...

We are not lynching AV right now; especially not until after Palisade comes and talks about something other than how great and clever his code was. I've also got more to say before this day ends which I'll be working on now.

UNVOTE:

[xvart]

Oh mannn how much town cred will I have when AV flips town without me?

MAN I'll just HAVE to be killed and then this will have all been a waste.

Fuckin hell derpplaylist

Fate, you can seriously stop with the town cred nonsense. You have literally done nothing to advance the town agenda this game. If anyone has barely a shred of town cred or even slightly deserves doctor protection it sure as shit isn't you. You flash wagoned CSL yesterday while going on about how there were better scum out there who you wanted to keep alive; you attempted to flash wagon, discredit, and smear me on horrible (and possibly scum motivated) reasons and then you backed into a corner with your tail between your legs with shaky reasoning when I called you out on it; you spent all D1 screaming for doctor protection and how any doctor without their head up ass would protect you; and, your vote on Palisade makes no sense given everything you said yesterday.

We done dickin around yet?

Regfan lynch.

Pallisade tomorrow

PROFIT.

Xvart, Palisade has claimed cop. Thats it. PERIOD. WE'll see what happens later on what results he gets etc. etc. He's not for D1.

AV's gonna flip town this is going to be funny

"Lol whyd we believe that PR fakin cop anyway"

Golden

You were so adamant about saving Palisade for lynching today because he claimed cop and we could test his claim. Now Palisade has provided a result on scum (the test that result you were waiting essentially testing for) and you want to vote him because he has a guilty? That makes no sense, is counter intuitive and extremely scummy.

Hey Palisade, when it gets close to 48 hours and you decide to drop in to grave us with your presence you sure as shit better answer these questions.

Hey Palisade. In your blathering about how intentionally cryptic your fake code was and how silly we all were for being unable to decode it you neglected to answer the following things:

1. Why you decided it was a good idea to fake a post restriction;
   
2. Why you claimed cop under no pressure and for no reason;
   
3. Why you were prod dodging all D1;
   
4. How you prioritized what you were attempting to say and why you decided it was important to tell us that Fate was annoying and not anything that was actually helpful; and,
   
5. Why you actually suspected who you did and why, other than you "didn't like what AV was posting. At all."

[xvart]

I have thought you were scum since your vote on Wraith.

[xvart]

Okay so you think it's a Pallisade/AV/Fate scumteam.

I believe you and Palisade are scum. I'm still on the fence about Fate, as I said yesterday I need some flips because I am unable to parse out if Fate is actually exhibiting scum motivated behavior or if he is just being Fate doing what Fate does.

Are you just copying Magua?
What reason does scumFate have for unvoting me to vote Pallisade, since you (incorrectly) think I'm flipping scum?

What am I copying Magua on? The other questions are ridiculous and see no reason to answer them. Why does any scum unvote someone (re: zajnet)?

You look logical and pro-town on the surface with all these questions
But there are massive holes in your arguments.

Not really; the holes are only there because of lack of verified information; plus, everything I have said and the reasons I think you and Palisade are scum is not full of holes because they are based on explicit and unique behavior. The final piece of the puzzle is where the holes you reference are because at that point it becomes speculation.

xvart, given your unvote, I assume you fear the day ending early. You don't want it to be over so quickly (even with what you think is a scumlynch). You want MORE time to do whatever it is you do? That means a quick end to the day would, in your opinion, favour scum?
So why didn't I (as hypothetical scum) self-hammer myself? I've done it before to end discussion. Why didn't I do it here?

I was very clear with why I didn't want to end the day at this point: Palisade and I had other stuff to say before night. I want information from your lurking scum buddy and him coming in day two with a stupid post about how clever his faked post restriction without giving any substance or any justification for his scummy behavior and claiming is unacceptable. And again, asking me to justify your behavior is ridiculous. There could be plenty of reasons why you didn't self vote as scum; some WIFOM non sense about getting your scum buddy to get a hammer in or maybe to have us think your scum buddy hammered; maybe you just forgot; Maybe you were hoping for some town cred by not voting; or any number of things. But the real question is, as town who announced you would self vote because that is what the town wants why you didn't self vote? I mean, saying you were going to self vote while not voting the person who must be scum by your POV is scum city to begin with.

[xvart]

Seriously, who ACTUALLY believes a D1 cop claim from a PR faking mastin troll?

He's fuckin scum.

This is quite the turnaround from yesterday Fate when I was saying this all fucking day and you were like LOLOLOL TEST HIS CLAIM WHY WOULD SCUMZ DO THIS!!!@!" Did you see an opportunity to cut your losses and you thought your team would be in a better position if you cut Palisade out and hope that his scum flip would give enough town cred to AV by being the "victim" of scum cop claiming?

This is getting ridiculous so I'm going to go ahead and lynch this scumbag because I'm sick of reading all this LOLPOSTING waiting for lurking Palisade.

VOTE: AurousVox

[xvart]

I cannot tell you how furious I was when I saw the lynch flip yesterday. I'm swamped at work right now but I will be posting later tonight. For the record, I have seen a 3 scum/lyncher mini combo before so we shouldn't rule it out.

[xvart]

Posting from phone. Internet is out at home. Hopefully will be on later but will post as soon as I am able.

[xvart]

So I ran back into the office to get some wireless connection so this will be a short post. Expect more tomorrow.

Wow guys, I could have told you AV was town. Palisade should have died after he revealed his PR was fake.

I am literally going to rip someone's head off if anyone else talks about how we should have lynched Palisade who never once said it before.

I still believe in the Gaoth-Regfan-Nico scumteam.

Ever since the lynch flip yesterday my world was basically crumbled; however, Regfan came floating back to me and something that happened on D1 that I mentioned but never followed up on because I got too focused on AV/Palisade/and to a lesser degree Fate. Regfan's whole perspective and commentary about Mastin flaking and then defending actions of Palisade as something Mastin would do doesn't sit right with me. If he thought Mastin had actually flaked and then was defending the LOLCOP claim because it is something Mastin would do... I need to go back and look at this some more and the other comments he made about Palisade because I think this could be scum playing both sides of the game.

IMO the scum have played very well to leave us with a playerlist like this, since Zajnet, Nico, myself, and CSL have all been probably the most targeted players.

I think I mentioned it in this game (might have been another) but I find that scum are the most likely to publicly pat the scum team on the back for how the town is faring.

We only have one mslynch left and we're not wasting anymore, we're lynching Xvart today end of. Xvart essentially confirmed himself as scum yesterday by blitz-hammering while claiming the day shouldn't end until Palisaide answers the questions directed towards him. With the exception of Xvart though I don't have any other strong scum-reads, my scum-read on Wraith is continuously reducing in strength and I'm reading his attempt at putting together a case as terribad town rather than anything else but I want to read into his meta. Speaking of which Wraith you need to link me to your best and worst town and scum games, I'll read them tomorrow morning.

This is crap because they were my questions. I was the only one questioning Palisade and the fact that he had demonstrated repeatedly that he was anti town and not going to participate I decided it wasn't worth it to wait. So if that is your case bring it on. So how exactly does me deciding that the questions I asked and that I was the only one interested in seeing answers were not going to get answered confirm me as scum?

For setup speculation purposes I doubt there are three scum because town would have to have some serious power and we apparently don't have a cop in the game and we have an inventor (which I've never played with before but is a sketchy role in terms of power from my understanding).

Since he's already been outted I think Diddin should claim who he targeted last night with whatever invention he created and whether or not he would know if he got role blocked. Actually, I think before he claims anyone who received something last night should claim that first.

[xvart]

xvart, two questions:

1) Do you think we're in mylo today?

2) Do you find Wraith scummy?

1. I haven't really decided yet. Based on the plausible PR distribution I mentioned I doubt we are in MYLO; but I have a tin foil hat theory that is making me think we are. I'll have a better assessment of that once the day sort of stabilizes.
   
2. Yes; his first few posts today have been pretty scummy.

Do you want to flash lynch him today?

[xvart]

Xvart, you weren't the only one interested in the Palis answers to the questions nor were you the only person who directed questions towards him. If he was continuously avoiding responding to your questions how would that want you to speed-lynch his guilty

rather than draw out the day and potentially lynch Palisaide instead

, it makes no logical sense whatsoever and I've read through a few of your previous games to see that you're not derp-illogical town.

Yes, it also makes no logical sense for you to be trying to argue my scumminess based on not lynching Palisade. All day yesterday I was advocating for the Palisade lynch. ALL DAY. Everyone said "no no no no, we need to test his claim." What happens? We get a "guilty" result on someone and now I'm catching shit because we lynched the guilty result instead of now discussing lynching Palisade? Why in the world would you have actually even considered lynching Palisade when you said yesterday we needed to test the claim, meaning you wanted to see if he got a guilty?

And yes, I admit I was hasty in hammering but I wasn't expecting what happened because they both were scum together in my opinion. The thread was being derailed with LOLnonsense posting and I couldn't stand it and watch the wagon fall apart. I didn't consider that Palisade might be a third party lyncher and I fully anticipated AV flipping scum. You said you've read some of my games. From your meta sample do you think that I, as scum, would full court press a claimed cop?

And I'm not ready to start claiming but I do want to know why we are mass claiming because you said so and your thought process in determining that that is the best course of action. Especially if you are the one "that is dying tonight"?

I noticed many of your points against Wraith were on the scummy side, but you never actually outright called him scummy. So I was curious. If we're going to lynch today, I'd much rather lynch you than him, so I'm not even sure where you'd get that I'm looking to flash lynch him.

Who else do you think is scum?

I had a neutral read of him most of the last two days, or at least insignificant enough compared to Palisade and AV. His post today have been pretty scummy and I think he is likely scum but I still need to go back and see some interactions the previous two days. I was fishing a response from you because while I don't find very pointed questions to a very specific set of people scummy necessarily, there can be subtle manipulation and I was seeing if that is what you were doing. Silently weighing out possible wagons without committing.

@xvart: Why do you think everyone believes you to be scum?

Where did I say I thought everyone believed me to be scum? Regardless, I don't know if you recall or not but there was a decent wagon on me yesterday...

@Magua AND xvart: Both of you have held strong scumreads on Regfan for just about your entire time playing, yet neither of you have ever voted him. Can you elaborate as to why that is?

You're putting a lot of words into mouths in this post. Where was my scum read on Regfan "strong"? My very vocal scum reads up until start of day were Palisade and AV; and a lesser degree Fate by association to Palisade. What's your point? You look like you're throwing a big net and hoping to catch at least one fish, especially with your "eliminating WIFOM" motivations.

[xvart]

I have an ability left, want me to claim it? And yes, I'm an Inventor. There will be RAGE directed towards Fate once this game is over.

Oh, so your invention aren't like "Put wrench and lugnut together and give to Fate" but "give 2 shot protection to Regfan"?

[xvart]

How did Fate know you sent it to him but Regfan did not?

[xvart]

I crumbed that I sent Fate a gift during D2.

I found it. That is good enough for me.

@ Xvart -

You're misrepping what I said massively, I never had any intenton of instant sheeping any guilty that Palisaide had to 'test his claim' but rather have them live until D2 so we have something to work of. Not everyone was saying "No, no, no!" to having Palisaide lynched at all, I was considering it and Fate was pushing for it meaning it was entirely plausible and possible to lynch him had the day drawn out longer.

I don't think I'm misrepping you at all. By not considering lynching him D1 with the guise of testing his claim you are essentially saying "give us some results and then we'll consider if he is scum or not." If he had returned a innocent result would you have lynched him? The only possibility that anyone who said the day before "let's test his claim tomorrow" would consider is him returning a guilty verdict. If Palisade returned an innocent result you would have to operate under the same premise as the day before because nothing has changed with any level of significance to the game state. Why, after all the pomp and circumstance yesterday, would you be considering him scummy for returning a scum result?

This no lynch discussion needs to end now, there's no chance this is mylo at all, Slaxx isn't a bastard mod like that. Further, lynching today means that mafia become forced to shoot towards me because the risk of me saving tonight would leads towards a potential extra mslynch. Mass-claiming is needed, we'll learn more than enough from that and should be able to get 2-3 clears at minimum.

How do we yield 2-3 cleared townies out of mass claiming? And what about if the scum have a RBer? And what if a ton of other things that only help scum plan night actions when we think we aren't in threat of an immediate loss with a mislynch today?

[xvart]

There's no chance in the world that this setup is just Day Talk Enabler and Inventor, there's bound to be more town power roles than that and if depending on the number of power role claims we get we should be able to work out if they're legitimate it or not giving us 'clears' so to speak. I have a good idea what power roles are in the setup and if I'm right there's legit no chance that there's a RB nor is there any reason or advantage in NLing today.

This is a terrible reason for claiming today. If there is no advantage to no lynching today there is no advantage to claiming today and to say otherwise is ludicrous. If you are really going to make the case for claiming today you need to make the case instead of just saying "I think I know what roles are in the game and if I'm correct..."

Diddin, you claim your last ability after everyones mass-claimed, there's no reason to do it just yet.

Under no circumstances should diddin claim his last power today.

Magua,

the newspaper costs money to read, fork it over

if there's a scum roleblocker why wasn't Diddin roleblocked last night?

Because the inventor isn't an immediate threat, especially now that he is outted. Nothing he does will threaten the scum team during that night, especially when he claims each day who he targetted (and even more so if the ability is claimed). I'm still not sure why you claimed the ability you received.

He's flailing hard. Like someone (Magua I think?) said, he's throwing out accusations left and right, just trying to get something to stick. He's called 5 players scummy (out of 7 possible) in three pages, but he wants to "keep his reasons to himself." In the words of Chuck Testa: NOPE.

I agree with this assessment and find the V/LA unconvincing since someone V/LA could just as likely be scum. I don't find his lack of content the first two days scummy but his wide net of suspicion today is extremely opportunistic.

[xvart]

Since he's already been outted I think Diddin should claim who he targeted last night with whatever invention he created and whether or not he would know if he got role blocked. Actually

, I think before he claims anyone who received something last night should claim that first.

I'm still not sure why you claimed the ability you received.

We're not lynching Wraith today, we're lynching Xvart and if the above quote doesn't prove that he's mafia I don't know what the fuck will.

Your right; I suppose I did contradict myself but can you explain the scum motivation and how that makes me obv scum? It should be obvious that I didn't know how an inventor role works as evidenced by my post here. The only one I've ever seen put random pieces of non determinate pieces together and gave it to someone without knowing what it did. I didn't know diddin

knew

what he was giving when he gave it and was assuming he gave a "doo wap diddly thing am a jig". I was looking for the confirmation of the role and not town Fate gambiting some nonsense and then a diddin scum team faking it from there since Fate never elaborated on it and diddin never confirmed it yesterday; hence why I asked the player who allegedly received it to claim first. But all that is beside the point and even if I blatantly and consistently contradicted myself what is the scum motivation and the scum gain from that contradiction? How does that

prove

I am scum from your perspective? A contradiction is a contradiction so unless you can assign scum motivation for it you just have a contradiction.

[xvart]

I'll respond to the recent posts in a bit but I forgot to mention the other reason I wanted the person to claim receipt of an invention was because in Halo mafia I passed a gun around and if I passed it to scum they wouldn't get it (I didn't know this until post game). This is why I asked if he would know if he was roleblocked or not so if diddin was town and nobody confirmed receipt of an invention then it might be because he passed it to scum.

[xvart]

Wraith - you never responded to my questions I asked you here. Wraith's scrambling today is pretty obvious scum trying to get any lynch to stick.

VOTE: Wraith

[xvart]

Let me rephrase: Wraith is just haphazardly throwing up suspicions on nearly everyone in this town while also advocating no lynch because he knows there are three scum in the game. In the event that his no lynch plan fails at least he has fallback lynches by the boat load. Also:

Wraith - you never responded to my questions I asked you here.

[xvart]

1. You read my question incorrectly. What I meant was "What reasons do you think everyone has for thinking you are scum?" not "Why do you have a persecution complex?"

Well, at the time of this post it was apparently because I was publicly teeheeing about all the possible mislynch fodder in this game.

2. Excuse me for thinking the back-and-forth attacks between you and Regfan today put you at odds with each other.

You said I had a "strong scum read on Regfan for just about [my] entire time playing". Regfan and I have only been "back and forth attack[ing]" today. Why the inaccurate "all game" reference? Are you scum with Regfan and saw the possibility of his flip and are trying to set either magua and I up for the next day fall if that did happen? This line of questioning makes no sense otherwise.

Regfan - there is still no reason for a mass claim at this point and especially if you have a doctor ability. What does outting PRs do other than allow the scum team to know exactly what to do tonight? Then they have the fast track of exactly what to do, especially if they have a roleblocker. You yourself already said that you were dying tonight so why is it so important to out everyone else? And I would like to hear why you think the scum wouldn't have a roleblocker in this setup.

[xvart]

prodded. nothing else to say.

And who are you voting for?

[xvart]

The scum motivation behind Xvarts contradiction is obvious, he was attempting to subtly attack and throw suspicion towards me for claiming the power that I was given while advocacting the claiming of it himself.

You mentioned before that you view me as a logical person so you think my logical plan was to force you to claim your given ability and then blatantly attack you for doing so? I'm not very good at being subtle I guess. And you didn't address my clarification and my misunderstanding of the inventor role; but whatever.

I still think claiming is a terrible idea today; but since everyone else is in agreement... I am a refugee. Regfan, you claim next.

[xvart]

I did miss your refugee claim when you said you were given the doctor ability. I actually didn't mention the specific game where I saw the inventor because I don't remember which one it was (the combine two random things and give it away without knowing what it did). I'll see if I can find it. The game I did mention was where I gave the gun away but it didn't work for scum.

[xvart]

UNVOTE:

[xvart]

Why the unvote? Did his AtE break your heart of stone?

Nah, just making sure there isn't an accidental hammer while the claiming finishes (and hopefully for Regfan's insight into why there can't possibly be a roleblocker. Don't worry. I fully intend to see Wraith hanging today.

Magua - do you move during the night (i.e. the tracker ability would see you moving to Goath) or does the shot get redirected to you?

[xvart]

I'm going to make this 100% clear. If I die don't fucking dare even consider lynching Magua, Diddin, Banshee and perhaps Nicodemus though I'd suggest re-reading into him if the game doesn't end after Xvart and Zajnets lynches.

Way to be melodramatic. Regardless of who dies tonight we most likely aren't lynching any of those people.

I'm good with this plan that involves Regfan dying.

Me too.

Okay, everything is out there now.

VOTE: Wraith

[xvart]

Magua - do you move during the night (i.e. the tracker ability would see you moving to Goath) or does the shot get redirected to you?

What was the purpose of this question, please?

The original wording about kills being redirected was what caught my eye and wanted clarification. If it was the kill being redirected then we had very few roles that actually moved on a regular basis: the scum kill, plus the limited shot abilities. I was trying to figure out if a one shot tracker would actually serve a purpose in a game with only one consistently moving role. Plus, Wraith is sort of correct but not in the context he put forward. I was trying to see if the one shot tracker was to boost the town's power (slightly) if the scum team had a two movement abilities.

Question goes to Zajnet and xvart, too, substituting Wraith's name for their's in the list.

I would, hesitantly, say Nico is town out of the group. I don't have a read on Nico at all due to lack of participation but by PoE I think he is likely to be town. I think our scum are in Wraith, Zajnet, and Regfan.

xvart has spent the majority of the game attacking Wraith.

Not really. I had some concerns the first two days but my read was solidified today.

[xvart]

...still waiting on that game link though.

If you're referring to the game I was talking about where the inventor didn't know what he was giving I haven't been able to find it. But I did check the Inventor wiki page and that should be enough to prove the point I was making (although it says the trend is moved away from not knowing).

xvart comes next, who as I said I believe is town. The only thing that's worrying me right now is his serious drop in activity on D3, but overall he's still town.

Yeah, I apologize for dropping in activity somewhat. The Palisade/AV flips really rocked my world upside down and have had a difficult time recovering since I was so confident of my reads at that point.

[xvart]

Scum shot Fate because they thought he was a cop based on his reaction to Palisade's claim -- Fate pushed hard for a Palisade lynch D2 when everyone else was like "trololol". This means that at least one of (Regfan, xvart) is scum. No offense to (Zajnet, Nicodemus, Wraith), but if both the scum were in those three diddin would be dead, not Fate.

Palisade also being alive D2 after claiming a PR D1 reinforces this conclusion. Scum saw Palisade's claim and didn't believe it.

Of xvart/Regfan, I'd vastly prefer to lynch xvart.

First of all, if Fate was a cop then he would/should have pushed harder on Palisade D1; he wouldn't have been all "he's a good lynch tomorrow."

[xvart]

So then why do you think Fate got shot, xvart? I mean, knocking holes in my theory is all well and good, but I'm curious what you believe in its place.

I don't know and frankly I don't really care. What are you trying to achieve by NK speculating at this point in the game? Since we are diving into WIFOM territory I will go ahead and say if I was scum I would not have killed Fate simply due to the fact that he ran away with his tail between his legs after I called him out on his nonsense case (something I've never seen Fate do). You should also consider, as scum, I wouldn't know if Palisade was telling the truth about being a cop or not and if you think I would actively and ferociously try and get a possible cop lynched on D1. The fact that Palisade didn't get killed suggests that the scum do have a RBer unless they assumed Palisade would investigate AV.

I think Wraith and Regfan are the remaining scum. Regfan's commentary about Mastin flaking site wide and then defending Palisade by virtue of Mastin's actions doesn't make sense. Plus, his attack on me because of the AV lynch is so ludicrous because he wanted to test the cop claim, got a guilty result, and then accused me of being scum because we lynched the guilty.

Anyways, I don't know if I'll be back on today or not so if Wraith signs on then I'll sign off by saying to the town that I'm sorry I failed you.

[xvart]

You did push Palisade all D1, but it doesn't make that much of an impression on me -- his restriction was obviously bullshit, and you were voting him for the restriction. Further, you were alone for the most part of that, with everyone else saying "Let him get a report or something and we can lynch him tomorrow."

It wasn't just the post restriction that I was voting for Palisade. It was the scummy claim, the scummy not helping town, the whole scummy package. Don't minimize my suspicion of Palisade because if everyone else hadn't been "boo hoo cop claim" we would be in a much better position right now. And my suspicion of Palisade certainly doesn't exonerate me from being mafia since Palisade flipped alternative scum, but then it comes down to whether or not the town thinks I would try to lynch a cop as scum.

Find something, anything, that I can try to use to pinpoint the scum. Slaxx's goddamn fucking lyncher makes D2 a wasteland of information (seriously, Slaxx: a third mafia would've been preferable), so we have D1 and that's it.

D2 might not be quite the wash you think it is because the scum team would know that the result was fake so we can look back (we should have been doing this earlier) and see the people providing hesitation for voting with the cop result, especially the people who said we needed to wait for a result. The scum could have been jockeying for town cred when whatever was going on settled out since they knew AV wasn't going to flip their faction and likely not flip a third party. So looking at the people at the lynch count:

AurorusVox(6)

: Palisade, Diddin, Zajnet, Nicodemus, Gaoth, Xvart

palisade(2)

: Fate, AurorusVox

Wraith(0)

:

Gaoth(0)

:

Regfan(0)

:

Magua(0)

:

Nicodemus(0)

:

Zajnet(0)

:

xvart(0)

:

Fate(0)

:

diddin(0)

:

Not Voting:

Regfan, Magua, Wraith

The two people on Palisade were town. The only other people off the wagon are Regfan, Wraith, and you.

You not voting doesn't matter because you are town. Wraith didn't post at all during D2. That leaves Regfan:

Sorry, I've been unable to get any real internet access this weekend but holy fuck there's a lot to read into right now. Daytalk enabler means that either mafia have daytalk or there's guarenteed masons/neighbours in the setup, mass-claim later in the game should reveal all of that. Inital impression is that I don't see Palsaide faking cop-guilty this early in the game as scum making AV mafia but I want to re-read into this a bit more. Right now this is where I'm sitting:

Strong Town Reads:

Gaoth, Fate,

Troll

Magua, Diddin.

Weaker Town Reads:

Nicodemus, Palisaide, Zajnet.

Scum Reads:

Xvart, AurovousVox, Wraith.

Regfan has AV on his scum list and a claimed cop on his leaning town list. He even admits that he doesn't think Palisade wouldn't have a fake guilty this early in the game. All signs point to Regfan voting for AV but he doesn't.

[xvart]

I don't have time to post right now but I'll have something up tonight. If you hammer in the meantime know you are hammering town and the vig should aim for Regfan. I seriously can't believe that everyone is buying his play. Seriously, look at yesterday and the accusations he placed on me then. I was scummy for hammering the person who came up guilty on a person he left alive to test the cop claim? Scummy if you do, scummy if you don't. Today he has been awfully pushy about powering through my lynch. Why?

[xvart]

Yes, yes, that's very nice.

The one thing I want you to tell me is of (Regfan, Nicodemus, Zajnet), who's the town?

Hard to say. If there are two scum then it certainly isn't Regfan. Both of the others have been pretty non existent in the game so I would probably default back to Zajnet.

I'm working on a post now...

[xvart]

Sorry, clarification, Zajnet as the second scum. Nico as the final town.

[xvart]

The first thing I'll comment on is in comparison to me. Regfan has not been on a single lynch wagon this game, which is a position scum would want when all the lynches have been town. Besides the D2 lynch of AV which he only had one post during D2 the other two wagons he can be said to have been slowly stroking the opposing wagon to his to encourage it to go through while not being responsible for it. The CSL wagon is not so obvious but he was backing off his CSL town read as the wagon grew, so much so that he said his town read was "decreaseing in strength rapidly right now and is almost non-existant." The Wraith wagon should be even more obvious by his repeated support of the wagon while preferring my lynch:

I'm not fully sold on Wraith-scum, his recent posts and his claimed suspicion of the clears is looking as bad-town meaning Zajnet + Xvart scum-team is looking likely right now but regardless we're lynching Xvart today.

but right now more Xvart votes are needed, although Wraith deadline lynch is acceptable I think mafia would be able/trying to prevent them from getting lynched that way rather than sitting back like Wraith is now.

Despite the fact that Wraith appears to behaving in a town manner his lynch is still acceptable however he definitivly states that I was yesterday's lynch yet he really doesn't do anything to try and actually achieve that goal. If Wraith was giving him town vibes (however slight) and I was definitely scum then Regfan, as town, would be advocating for my lynch, providing evidence, and lobbying to get me lynched instead of just stroking the Wraith wagon. This is scum motivated play to the core.

While we're talking about why Regfan thinks I'm scum I'll go back to the points he's made against me (even though he hasn't really tried to get me lynched up until this point besides saying "he's the lynch no fucking around now":

First, I hammered the claimed cop guilty result even though he himself wanted to keep Palisade around to test the claim. If he's testing the claim and get's a guilty what more is there to consider? Regardless of how scummy Palisade was the fact that he wanted to keep him around to test the claim negates all else and getting a guilty is what anyone is hoping for in testing a claim. Then he immediately turns it around and says I'm scummy for following the cop result? My intentions were clear and outlined even in D1. I had it all laid out and there is no disputing my feelings on the Palisade/AV connection. Calling me scum for hammering in that situation is highly opportunistic and highly scum motivated. This is one of those cases where you can't have your cake and eat it too. This is why I think the scum have a RBer because they would have been able to leave scummy mcscum Palisade alive and RB him, which is why Regfan wasn't all over AV like he proposed the day before because he knew Palisade wouldn't have a result at all. The fact that Palisade didn't have a result and he claimed one meant Palisade was third party role and Regfan could get away with not voting the person he should have been voting as expressed by his position the day before. I outlined this yesterday when Magua said something about D2 being completely wasted here. Regfan is the only one with stated evidence to suggest he knew something was amiss, and his 180 on the testing cop claim confirms this. In fact, now the only people off the AV wagon were confirmed town and Regfan.

Second, my supposed blatant asking for his received role and then expressing suspicion over him claiming. I explained this, provided evidence on the wiki for my understanding of the stated inventor role (as was presented) so since he hasn't followed up on any of this or even brought it up again in his attempt to get me lynched I believe this to be a moot point.

Anything else? I can't remember so if there is go ahead and state it. In fact, please outline why I am confirmed scum because today "he's today's lynch no fucking around" isn't going to cut it anymore.

If that is his case it is a bunch of opportunistic cheap shots and one of which is blatantly scummy and the other is rendered moot.

VOTE: Regfan

[xvart]

I'm heading out in a few minutes but I'll try and respond to as much of this as I can while I have time now. Firstly, it's been explained multiple times that there's no benefit or reasoning behind using the vig shot at this point and secondly the fact that you haven't responded or acknowledged the lack of death last night and the gain of a mslynch while continously pushing me is ample proof that you're mafia alone.

How? You're reaching. I didn't comment on there being no death? Seriously? That makes me scum? What does it matter? There was no death, yet we still have to lynch scum so therefore we need to be lynching you. It's going to be pretty obvious with my flip that I am not and vig holder is going to look at the reasoning behind who was on my wagon. Your wagon isn't as shitty as Fate's was, but it is near enough in terms of actually providing motive and intent as actually being indicative of scum.

I don't join lynch wagons needlessly, the only times I'm on lynches is when I've led or pushed them strongly, reading through a few of my past games should be more than enough proof of this. The CSL wagon was complete bullshit, it was essentially a policy lynch that should never have gone through while the Wraith lynch was slightly understandable however his lack of fighting or attempting to save himself towards the end of the day read as a town-tell and the growing support for your lynch both made it meaningless to vote Wraith. I was pushing and attempting to get your lynch to occur and have been for a long time now however I've been in and out of the hospital so I haven't had much time or chances to focus on the game throughout D2/D3 at all.

Right, you were pushing my lynch without actually trying to get others to agree with you.

The whole 'testing' the claim has been explained multiple times. Testing the claim doesn't mean lynching his guilty or checking his innocent when he claims it the next day or instantly sheeping him at all, it means leaving him alive until D2 so we have something to work of whether it be the ability read him much easier based on his report or having a fallback/guarenteed report if we lynched Palisaide and he flipped town. Further I didn't vote AV because the one time I posted throughout that day AV was at L-1 and voting would mean hammering something i wasn't prepared to do without answers from Palsaide at all but the fact that you're continously ignoring and avoiding this fact is continual proof that you're mafia.

The whole point that you keep neglecting to relive is that AV was on your scum list at the time you think it was scummy to vote for the cop claimed scum member.

You are accusing me of hammering someone based on a cop claim you wanted to test and got a result of someone who was on your scum list.

What more do you need in terms of Palisade's motivation. As you have grown so fond of saying, this is what makes you mafia.

Your 'understanding' of the inventor role is meaningless when it comes to this. You openely stated that you wanted whoever had the power to outright claim with the power, I did so and then attempted to subtly (Not even subtly) attack me for doing it while being the person to want it to happen in the first place.

If it was meaningless then why were you so interested in finding the game I mentioned or wanting further clarification and even subtly suggesting I was scum for not providing it?

pre-edit: this game is a perfect example of town imploding and I take my fair share of responsibility. Sorry I failed you town. But this is why you fucking lynch scum bags when they are obvious scum even if they claim cop.

[xvart]

Man, the town can eat itself alive and diddin comes through with the save. Nice job, diddin.

AV - I was going to crap myself in shame if Wraith/Zajnet flipped scum.