The Children of Húrin Mafia (GREAT REVIVAL)

[Empking]

Actually, does anyone know the flavour? I think it might be useful that everyone who knows the flavour explains it in their own words.

Vote: MOI

[Empking]

why?

Not sure.

[Empking]

Vote: Gandalf

Either scum, third party or anti-town.

[Empking]

I get the feeling that if Plum was going to clarify she would have.

Give it a go.

Furc's summary makes sense. Is Children of Hurin not an actual story or book then?

[Empking]

Gandalf: What abilities do you have?

[Empking]

Also, claimed third party are better saved for Vigfodder than Lynchfodder. For super srs.

I never understood that. Why?

[Empking]

BoS

?

[Empking]

Lynch, lynch the Gandalf.

[Empking]

Gandalf: Claim powers and I might unvote.

[Empking]

I don't remember anything...

SWerious question and I'd like a truthful answer: Are you town?

[Empking]

Wisp: Ooba outted.

[Empking]

And sadly, if I'm right as to who the Scum one is, I think I know who (role-wise) it is. :/

You can share this with the class.

Andy: If you don't have a wincon yet wouldn't Gandalf be a safe vote?

[Empking]

It takes 12 players to lynch. Are we even halfway there?

[Empking]

I am also flavor ignorant.

(and a beautiful princess)

OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, SPYREX.

It takes 12 players to lynch. Are we even halfway there?

Nope.
I believe his claim, sadly.
If he were trying to stay alive why the hell would he claim something we'd lynch him for?

You think he wants to die?

[Empking]

I am also flavor ignorant.

(and a beautiful princess)

OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, SPYREX.

It takes 12 players to lynch. Are we even halfway there?

Nope.
I believe his claim, sadly.
If he were trying to stay alive why the hell would he claim something we'd lynch him for?

You think he wants to die?

If he were scum he wouldn't want to.
If he was town he'd claim truthfully- and if that claim makes us lynch him, well, then shit happens.

You think he's town?

[Empking]

Def. 3rd party.

So you're going to vote him right?

[Empking]

I don't believe Gandalf.

[Empking]

I don't believe Gandalf.

So you think that either I somehow knew Andy's role from the start, or that there really is some glitch where those two sections ended up bolded and they just happened to line up with Andy's role? Bullshit. VOTE: Empking

No but those bolded bits do not line up with Andy's role better than they line up with your fakeclaim. Especially the second.

[Empking]

So what you're saying is that you're arguing that your posts suggests prior knowledge of Andy's role but you only bought these up after Andy's role and they make more sense as supporting your original claim then your latest one?

So your "crumbs" are meaningless. Why should I care about them then?

[Empking]

Gandalf: You are claiming that you claimed a bastard role in order to breadcrumb that you had a bastard role? Am I correct?

[Empking]

@Gandalf
You are also claiming that you claimed a bastard role in order to breadcrumb that you had a breadcrumb but then waited more than a hundred posts after completing your crumbs to reveal that it was a joke? Yes.

I'm unsure; Did you finish your crumbs before or after Andy claimed?

[Empking]

Does anybody else want to claim Andrius' role?

[Empking]

SpyreX: Are you hot?

[Empking]

Pere: Why Kanye?

[Empking]

Unvote
Vote: Kat

[Empking]

Plum: Will we be informed when the deadline is determined?

[Empking]

especially since he stayed on Gandalf for as long as it was "safe" to stay there, and once the wagon was obviously dead in the water,

I couldn't have been far off the second person to leave that wagon.

[Empking]

especially since he stayed on Gandalf for as long as it was "safe" to stay there, and once the wagon was obviously dead in the water,

I couldn't have been far off the second person to leave that wagon.

When the 2nd person was KATSUKI, that doesn't help.

?

[Empking]

Why is Katsuki still alive?

Who knows?

[Empking]

Just reread most of ther thread. I'm rerally not seeing where peopler are getting a scumread on LC from.
Sun and Moon are pretty scummy though in his one post.

[Empking]

Why would Katsuki even be in danger of being lynched?

Because he's really scum.

[Empking]

SpyreX - 1 - gandalf5166
gandalf5166 - 2 - kanyeknowsbest, Sun and Moon
Furcolow - 1 - Andrius
kanyeknowsbest - 3 - PeregrineV, Will-o-wisp, mockingjaye

These votes are pointless and need shifting.

Unvote, vote: Katsuki

I agree with the first bit of this.

[Empking]

Sun and Moon has one post, Emp (IIRC).

When its that bad I can.

[Empking]

And I have no flavor knowledge, as I haven't had time to read more than the very beginning of The Silmarillion, and when my dad lent me Children of Hurin, I was very little,

When was that?

[Empking]

^disapointing

[Empking]

What the replace or the gif?

The picture.

[Empking]

All the Power Roles dying at night fit perfectly with Lovecraft flavour.

[Empking]

All the Power Roles dying at night fit perfectly with Lovecraft flavour.

:headdesk:

?

[Empking]

Also, based on the sample role pm in the OP, you should know exactly whether or not you are mafia, regardless of flavor knowledge.

They're claiming not to know their role at all.

[Empking]

So Gandalf/Andrius is the same (or something), but no votes for Andrius?

Unvote.
Vote: Andrius

Fixed.

This is a joke post right?

[Empking]

Also, based on the sample role pm in the OP, you should know exactly whether or not you are mafia, regardless of flavor knowledge.

They're claiming not to know their role at all.

???

?

[Empking]

So Gandalf/Andrius is the same (or something), but no votes for Andrius?

Unvote.
Vote: Andrius

Fixed.

Okay, you could vote for either gandalf or Andrius and it'd be exactly the same except that voting for Gandalf would be marginally meaningful, so you're voting for

Andrius

. They say a townie's only weapon is his vote - well, I guess that's not always true then.

Why would voting for Gandalf be marginally meaningful, but voting for Andrius is meaningless (or whatever the opposite of marginally meaningful is)?

Gandalf has votes.

[Empking]

This little bit of fluff caused me to look at the Empking ISO and compare it to Empking Town in Jungle Republic and Empking Scum in [REDACTED] and A Song of Fire and Ice.

Jungle Republic is not representive of my town play.

[Empking]

Jungle Republic is not representive of my town play.

Lulz. You were Town in that game. Care to explain how it isn't representative again?

Because I don't normally catch scum early while being essentially unlynchable.

You pretty much instant pop-up when called out despite an ISO full of non-scumhunting and fluff does tell me that I'm probably right.

Explain the logic here.

[Empking]

2. The only reason you were not lynched is that you claimed Seer. You would have been the lynch Day 1 for certain if not.

Or to put it in another way "I was essentially unlynchable"? You seem to be disagreeing just to disagree (Your first point is objectively a lie if anyone would bother to look. Was there even a player called "Andrew" in the game?)

Also,

Explain the logic here.

like I asked you to.

[Empking]

The logic is that you are scum skating by on fluff but popped up almost immediately to say "Hey, that's not my Town meta" when I called you out. Who has more reason to try to undermine a read that isn't even accompanied by a vote yet? Scum.

Oh please don't by calling it "a read" as if I'm trying to discredit a town read on another player.

If I'm scum then pointing ouit your mistake was pro-scum. If I'm town then its pro-town. Its pretty much the definition of null.

(and it is objectively a lie because I never called Andrew scum in that game.)

[Empking]

Katsuki - 7 - Mastermind of Sin, MagnaofIllusion, Empking, LordChronos, Gut,

Andrius, gandalf5166

Good wagon though in general.

[Empking]

Trying to argue a Town game isn%u2019t indicative of your Town play and that my read isn%u2019t a %u2018read%u2019 isn%u2019t doing anyting at all to change my perspective.

Are you honestly saying that you think that as random game is representitive and that there are never any outliers and weird games?

[Empking]

Are you honestly saying that you think that as random game is representitive and that there are never any outliers and weird games?

No. Are you honestly saying that I shouldn't trust my own direct observations of your play as Town and scum when assessing you?

Yes you shouldn't trust a one-off observation unconditionally as if it was the secret of the universe. I'll freely admit that that's what I'm saying.

How long are you going to continue to "Why me"?

How am I doing that?

[Empking]

Feysal: Is it fair to say that you'll always give town vibes regsrdless of actual role?

[Empking]

Unvote, Vote: Sun

[Empking]

Nice straw-man Empking. First off I%u2019m not %u2018trusting it unconditionally%u201D as you put.

You're attacking me for (the most part) suggesting that your one game might not be the most representitive of my play. That suggests trusting it almost religiously let alone unconditionally.

It%u2019s not like I%u2019m pulling a Fate and screaming like a moron about how you are 1000% confirmed scum. I%u2019ve simply generated a scum read and posted it for Town%u2019s benefit. Secondly it%u2019s not a %u2018one-off%u2019 as you incorrectly suggested %u2026 I%u2019m basing this read on three separate observations of your play.

But only one observation of my town play and (as I'm sure you're aware) you can't judge someone being scum just because they're playing in a similar fashion as they did in a scumgame.

[Empking]

Wraith: Explain "lurky".

[Empking]

Wraith: Explain "lurky".

None of your posts have more than two lines of text from you. Perhaps "lurky" is the wrong word. "Fluffy" might be better.

Wraith: Define "fluffy".

[Empking]

But only one observation of my town play and (as I'm sure you're aware) you can't judge someone being scum just because they're playing in a similar fashion as they did in a scumgame.

Again, because you love to make statements that don’t necessarily apply –

1. Your posting this game does not resemble Jungle Republic Town Empking in several meaningful ways.
2. Your posting this game does resemble [REDACTED] and SOFAI Scum Empking in several meaningful ways.
3. Your ISO lacks any desernable scum-hunting and is loaded, as Wraith said, with excessive fluffy one-liners and ‘Why me’ posts.

These three elements together are sufficent for me to generate a Empking is scum read. All the nitpicking you are doing isn’t affecting any of these three elements.

I'm not questioning your scumread, firstly I was explaining to town why it should no necessarily be trusted and then just explaining why your successive statements have been wrong.

Also, what is a "why me" post?

[Empking]

I'm sure the rest of his posts will be of the scumhunting sort.

Looks like coaching to me. (How could he know they'd be the scumhunting sort?)

Unvote, Vote: Fey

[Empking]

kat (feysal) wagon is bs, kanye wagon is bs

Does bs in this case stand for Best Situation? If so I agree. Both your slots need rope.

Why aren't you on Kanye?

[Empking]

Why aren't you on Kanye?

Because I don't have magical powers that allow me to vote two players at once. And I'm voting Feysal. Who you happen to be voting right now.

Why do you like asking pointless questions instead of scum-hunting?

It wasn't a pointless question. It ousted your OMGUSy tendancies. After all, I'm not asking for the leading wagon target to die while sitting on a smaller wagon.

[Empking]

It wasn't a pointless question. It ousted your OMGUSy tendancies. After all, I'm not asking for the leading wagon target to die while sitting on a smaller wagon.

How does the first part even make sense? I've yet to call anyone scum this game AFTER they called me such. That's what OGMUS is Empking ... you should know that by now.

"OMGUSy tendancies." seems a perfectly fine term for attacking someone for attacking you.

Your definition of OMGUS is also laughably wrong. Is that your reason for attacking every non-princess thing that moves?

Even if what you claimed there is true ... so what? Are you trying to say it is a scum-tell?

Yes. Lying is a scumtell.

Finally please don't make me laugh regarding wagons. I'm voting for scum with 6 votes. Kayne has 7 (although the mod VC said 5 last I looked).

Why this excuse? You know it now and you still didn't unvote. Seems like you've got a preoccupation for covering your back to me.

Do you think Feysal is scum? If so why are you trying to say my vote shouldn't be on him? If not why are you voting for him?

[/quote]

I never said you shouldn't be voting him. I asked you why you were voting him when you were suggesting that the Kanye wagon was a better wagon (you wanted both lynched and Kanye is easier.)

[Empking]

HAHAHAHHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHI actually laughed out loud when I read the bolded Empking.I could care less about your 'opinion'. I'm done trying to explain obvious things to you and having your continue to make laughable responses.Go splash in the Kiddie Pool until the adults tell you it is time for a snack ...

Laying it on a bit thick, don't ya think?

[Empking]

Hey Feysal you CAN have town/scum reads on gandalf and I.

Well you can't possibly have a town read on y'all.

[Empking]

Why aren't Andy & Gandalf activated then?

[Empking]

What are you trying to achieve by engaging MoI in this matter again and again? Are you trying to convince MoI that you're town? Are you trying to show him the errors in his scum hunting methods? Is this supposed to be a display for other people to realize how town you are?

Slip?

As town I'm trying to find out his alignment. I've got a scumread on him.

[Empking]

What? Because I declared you as town in this scenario? Lol.

No because you were only focused on people trying to look town. Suggesting you're focused on trying to look town. Suggesting you're mafia.

I have had two(?) exchanges with MOI. Each one cementing my scumread on him. I'll have exchanges with everyone I think lips/contradicts/is insincere.

[Empking]

Arguing ad nauseum a point that has been made clear in the very first post

Whaty point?

[Empking]

Moi using one toen game of yours to determine your town meta and you arguing against it.

And how was it "clear in the very first post" that that was the most effective method to use?

[Empking]

It was clear that you wouldn't convince each other of your differing viewpoints. So, what made moi scum in that exchange of yours? The fact that he used this method to try to determine your alignment in the first place or the fact that you couldn't convince him of the wrongness of said method?

"I will look at the out-of-ordinary game but ignore the more representitive game we played together in order to call you scum." is not a method.

[Empking]

More votes on Kanye, please.

Deadline's creeping up on us...

[Empking]

Andy: Gandalf is scummier than you. That's basically where I'm at with him a couple of points left of you and sice you're alignment is based on flavour spec...

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that MOI just made up his post. I know I'm far from calling him confirmed town.

[Empking]

Oh come on. We've had the same sort of VC for yonks now. I'm halfway to thinking that the people not on a wagon are purposely trolling.

[Empking]

Opps. Totally did not mean to post those multiple quotes. I was quoting every kanye quote to see the reasons behind them for myself again.

I think my question got lost too. empking, can you restate your reason for voting feysal?

1. I went back on him because I think its likely that he's scum with Pere.

[Empking]

Andrius:
This is just a cunning play to get Fey lynched, isn't it?

I approve.

[Empking]

Unvote, Vote: Pere

[Empking]

You quoted my reads to show Fey is inconsistent? Bad distancing.

[Empking]

Bah, Kanye's was hardly touched.

[Empking]

Pere is a lurker, yes.

[Empking]

Gandal: Thoughts?

Vote: Sun

[Empking]

Every single one of you on this wagon needs to explain in detail why you were voting for him.

Because he was a scummy lurker whose actions seemed like they had inside scum information.

[Empking]

And that means more than the people that made it a wagon and weren't trying to save themseves, why?

This is a good town question.

[Empking]

Lulz. What other more-representative game are you discussing here? If I missed a Town game with Empking in my quick review of my history please indicate what it is.

LynchMePlease's game.

I also wouldn't say there was anything that would make town think scum Seraph's had an ability to make people remember.

[Empking]

Also ... nice dodge on responding about your scummy "he made it up" statement. Cudos.

How was that a dodge?

[Empking]

Unvote, Vote: Fey

[Empking]

So, Furc are you claiming that by lynching Fey we get rid of two non-town players at the same time?

[Empking]

or at least I can still

Who do you need to kill?

[Empking]

Unvote
Vote: S&M[/]

[Empking]

Unvote
Vote: S&M

[Empking]

Ooba: Gandalf does have his role.

[Empking]

S&M are si far in the red zone that'd it be borderline impossible (in the current meta) to get him lynched. Maybe being just in the "scummy-lurker policy lynch" zone is a town tell but when you take it to 11 like S&M that's a scum tactic.

[Empking]

Yeah, today's lynch should be VitR.

This is getting stupid. I'm having a hard time believing this is sincere. Is chamber even really there this time?

You know I wouldn't lie to our esteemed moderator.

Interesting that you find that more plausible than us being scum.

Heh. Your meta argument about S&M is good too.

Unvote, Vote: VitR

[Empking]

A Sun and Moon lynch should not be considered based on what it is being considered now. NEWFLASH: WE DID A LURKERLYNCH DAY 1 AND MISLYNCHED. ALSO SUN AND MOON FLAKED ALREADY IN [REDACTED] SO "LURKERSCUM" IS PRETTY MUCH NULL.

Sun and Moon is a stupid wagon and those of you on it need to find the real scum. Or slip up yourselves, because these lurkerwagons have been OBVIOUSLY SCUMDRIVEN.

What "lurkerwagons" have driven you to caps lawk?

[Empking]

A Sun and Moon lynch should not be considered based on what it is being considered now. NEWFLASH: WE DID A LURKERLYNCH DAY 1 AND MISLYNCHED. ALSO SUN AND MOON FLAKED ALREADY IN [REDACTED] SO "LURKERSCUM" IS PRETTY MUCH NULL.

Sun and Moon is a stupid wagon and those of you on it need to find the real scum. Or slip up yourselves, because these lurkerwagons have been OBVIOUSLY SCUMDRIVEN.

Sun and Moon is a hydra.

no wai. But how does this relate to my actual point?

And town lurkerlynched Peregrine Day 1, Empking, if you hadn't noticed. Which I did not support. Town is being derp right now.

Wow, an entire one.

[Empking]

What's different between ooba and our meta statements?

If I'm understanding the question; Ooba's was a general case that I disagreed with. Yours was the specific case that I agreed with.

[Empking]

I'd say if we lynch MoS, then go through his FoSs, we'd have 2-3 scum
(including him!)

Says claimed third party. MOS is the towniest player this game.

[Empking]

@Empking: why?

Going out of his way to be brave and scumhunt (plus a lot of effort.)

[Empking]

Unvote, Vote: Kanye

[Empking]

Unvote, Vote: Vtr

[Empking]

What do you think of empkings hop on to your wagon?

What hop/ The original one or the one when I no longer needed* to vote Kanye?

*Need because we were running up to deadline and it only looked like Kanye was a possibility.

[Empking]

Vote: S+M

[Empking]

Yeah, amrun's refusal to do that makes it pretty clear to my mind.

[Empking]

Refusal to do what?

I'm confused.

My role pm says mason... That's all I need to know. That's all anyone needs to know. What other answer would Plum give than what is already in my role pm?

Refusal to do us the favour of removing your "plausible" deniability.

[Empking]

Is it agreed that I'm the vigkill? Should I claim?

[Empking]

Oh, shut up, MoI.

Empking, you're Today's lynch, not the vig kill.

That's not what the vote count says.

[Empking]

Kill flavours have been meaningful in all past Plum games.

Though thinking like that is how a bastard game with no lying tricks you up.

[Empking]

Empking:

Why didn't you react to the cop guilty on you? People are saying the Seraphs have a confirmed guilty on you yet you have not reacted whatsoever. What info do you think they have on you?

I had not been informed of a Cop guilty on me. Since they ask, the info the Seraphs have on me is that they're being dicks to you and know that I can (and tried yesternight) to give you your role.

[Empking]

Alert,

We are not lynching Sun and Moon today.

Yes we... are?

[Empking]

Empking, did you give Gandalf his role? If you did give Gandalf his role, why him first and not Andy, since you spent a lot of time voting Gandalf on D1? If you didn't give Gandalf his role, then we can assume whoever did give him the town role is town and you aren't based on the Seraph's reaction.

Yes.
I thought MOI was lying and I knew he couldn't give a reason for doing Gandalf first.

[Empking]

You give out roles to people?

Only to those that lack one at the time.

[Empking]

Can Andrius confirm this, assuming he has a role now?

He said he didn't get one. I don't know why.

[Empking]

What exactly was I lying about? That I knew the Seraphs both said they didn%u2019t enable Gandalf%u2019s role?

I thought you were lying about the Seraph's ability to grant Gandalf's & Andy's roles.

[Empking]

Wait, whut?

You thought I was lying about the Seraph's abilities when I said they both said they didn't have said ability and you knew this to be true since you did?

I'm confused ...

I suppose I misunderstood what you meant by "granting latent abilities". Why did Mina object to Gandalf's claim of recovering his role, did she think that he'd be alignmentless with nothing to fix it?

[Empking]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to regret this but let me try to get through to you one more time.

I've never thought or said S&M is 100% confirmed anything. Your stated possability is just that, a possability. Because of the miller claim that came prior to your cop investigation your investigation is completely meaningless unless you think amrun and ludi are scum together, and you don't seem to think this. Because your objective cop investigation is meaningless you instead have to use subjective means to determine S&M's alignment, which I admit you've done, but I respectfully disagree with your conclusions.

The issue is that you continue to frame your subjective reads as objective facts, which they simply aren't.

I'm sure you are going to regret it since it is you spewing the same crap over again.

1. My guilty is not meaningless based on Sun and Moon's claim to Magister. You keep repeating it as if his status is confirmed fact when it isn't. Even if they aren't partners Sun and Moon can just as easily be Scum 'lying' about becoming a Miller just as easily as he could actually becoming a Miller. Even more so given that both Seraphs have confirmed that they can grant Miller status. How many Miller mechanisms do you think exist in the game? At this stage of the game the only known Cop roles look to be Latent Abilities - Wraith's 1 Shot Cop / Doc and my Suicide Cop. Proliferating the game with 'Surprise Miller' abilities makes little sense in that regard.

In summary - your stance that my objective result is meaningless isn't valid as it works from the premise that Sun and Moon didn't lie to Magister. Which scum will do.

2. Actually the bolded line is your issue also. You are framing your stance as fact when it's only your opinion. I can't really blame you trying this repeatedly as you are very likely their scum partner and thus want to get them off any way you can. So you can't exactly decry what I am doing when you are using the exact same tactics.

MORE SUN AND MOON VOTES PLEASE!!!

Not a quote from me if anyone is skimming.

[Empking]

Smarge is a fine vig but we should not be lynching her today (if MOI is still suicidal.)

[Empking]

Who should we be lynching then?

S&M

[Empking]

Who would vig smarg in that scenario then?

Feysal

[Empking]

Vote: Amrun

[Empking]

Vote: Amrun

Great.

Did you give Andrius a role last night. YES OR NO

.

This is not optional.

Don't be a dick. There's no need to bold it and threaten.

Yes.

[Empking]

Unvote, Vote: Fey

[Empking]

Chamber

[Empking]

Why in gods name are you voting Sun and Moon?

I'm not.

[Empking]

Pedit, empking, why did you vote Amrun?

Guilty result on her so I didn't really think.

[Empking]

Andrius: You were fakeclaiming at the beginning?

[Empking]

Of course I don't think S&M are mafia anymore. Once I found out that we had enough information to discount that possibility, I no longer felt that S&M was a proper lynch. How did you miss that?

To be fair, I'm pretty sure you didn't actually say that, you just responded with "oops".

On Feysal:
I feel safe assuming Feysal was telling the truth about his WC and abilities.
I also think it's clear that Feysal tried to kill Sunandmoon, and will try again tonight if he is still alive. Some may disagree, but be reasonable: killing them would probably fulfill his win condition.

On Day 2, I wanted to leave Feysal alive for two reasons. One was that he might kill scum, and the other was that scum might kill him. He was a threat to them as long as he wasn't aiming specifically at town. Now he's aiming specifically at Sunandmoon (or maybe Magna, but I'm assuming Sunandmoon), and Sun is town.

We have 2 options:
Lynch Feysal
Don't lynch Feysal

Lynching Feysal removes him from the game, lets the scum and Sunandmoon make a kill as well as letting other PR's act, then we return to day.
Not lynching Feysal means that Sunandmoon and Feysal are removed from play tonight.

I think this is just a matter of numbers. We should choose the option that maximizes the number of town-directed kills, not counting a lynch of Feysal, and provides the best information for choosing those kills. Letting town PR's take an additional action should be a tiebreaker.
If we lynch Feysal, Sunandmoon can shoot mockingjaye if they decide to (whomever we would have lynched). The scum will probably kill Sunandmoon, but they would otherwise be killing someone else. On the other hand, Sunandmoon would lose an opportunity to shoot the "next" person after Mockingjaye. So at this point, I think the number of kills would work out the same either way. But we could get an extra round of other actions if we lynch Feysal.

Someone check my calculations. Or let me know if I'm wrong despite my calculations.

This is correct.

[Empking]

Empking, what exactly does your ability do?

Gives people any abilities they can't remember. I think I could probably return MOI's suicidalness along with giving Gandalf & Andy's back.

[Empking]

Only abilities?

The whole thing.

[Empking]

so what do you think about your ability not working on andrius despite his role being about not remembering?

Apparently he'd already been cured/it worked and he just lied about it?

[Empking]

I didn't say I believe Feysal...I don't even believe he was telling the truth about his wincon, so my opinion of whether or not he shot WoW is irrelevant, since he should die either way. I am trying to figure out why Herodotus believes EVERYTHING ELSE Feysal has said, but only now thinks the claimed SK might lie to us.

The role he claimed isn't SK.
Now that I've answered (post 2017), do you disagree with my explanation?

@Empking: I'm still stuck on:
1. you thinking that gandalf was lying scum despite what he said matching the ability you claimed

Because he could have just copied Andrius. The amnesiac role wa\sn't something he'd've had to get from his role PM since it was out in the thread.

2. despite thinking he was lying, you choosing gandalf to target before Andrius

I had changed my mind by then.

[Empking]

Melian, Mind Restorer, Gandalf, Andy, Andy

[Empking]

I'll mention that I breadcrumbed my Gandalf action in 838(?) (First post of D2) with my random question.

[Empking]

Did you breadcrumb your Night 2 action on Andy?

No, I think the "guilty" had already been made up and I expected to fullclaim eventually. More importantly I presumed that the main point of my ability had already been used.

[Empking]

Yeah, I think makes more sense as an automatic vig possibility rather than a lynch.

[Empking]

Yeah, I think

Furc

makes more sense as an automatic vig possibility rather than a lynch.

[Empking]

Vigpool Furc, nacho, Andy

I like that.

[Empking]

I think he might have simply piggy backed of gandalf's confusion and just completely fabricated not having a 'role' on day one.

Based on my memory, and I admit this was quite a long time ago so I may be misremembering something, andrius claimed to have no role while gandalf was still claiming to be Gandalf. gandalf had left some breadcrumbs but picking up on the unknown role mechanic from just that within all that chaos seems unlikely to me.

That's correct.

I'd've voted MOS but I get the feeling that its going to clearcut whether or not he's scum pretty soon from MOI's post.

[Empking]

Who did you target last Night?

Furc.

[Empking]

Empking: Why Furc?

Only one I had a glimmer of a chance to do something to. The fact that it didn't was probably a good thing in hindsight.