926 A Game of Thrones Mafia - Over.
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Actually
I'm pro name claim I've decided, which is a complete flip I know.
I think we should post our names in order of the list on the OP
I will honestly be very suspicious of people I consider to be the "bad guys" in the books.
Sure, "bad guy" is a moving feast, since book 1, Jaime is painted as a bad guy, but later on he's not so bad. But anyway.
So I'm for a name claim. In the specific order. Because that way, scum have to choose, do I admit I'm Tywin Lannister? Or do I hope that "The onion knight" is not in the game and choose him. And then somebody else goes "But I'm the onion knight!" and bam! scum!
Who agrees?-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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I just had some time off.
I blame the stars aligned II game that I'm in for my original thoughts that I now think are incorrect.
I have a fairly main character (he/she has never had a POV chapter, but none-the-less is a main character) and I don't have a PR. Thus, I don't think names will reflect PR.
I just don't think it can hurt too much to do it, and it may lead to some scum avoiding their scummy names, and thus cause them to slip up.
I am strictly against PR claiming. (I know I just kind of did it, but it was to support my point)-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Inconsistency is noted. You want people to start name claiming and I'm being voted for because that's what I'm arguing for.Locke Lamora wrote:This is going nowhere fast. If some people are going to flat-out refuse to nameclaim or just keep stalling by talking about the relative pros and cons, it's not going to offer any benefit anyway. Can we either do it or move on? I'm for it. With that said:
Vote: Seacore
For doing a lot of talking but talking about nothing else but the nameclaim. Even his vote was made because Kinetic proposed one.
I'm waiting for somebody to choose a 'random' order.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Yay4 Votes
Seacore
Miserable
Kinetic
Buttonmen
Nay2 Votes
Macavity
Raivann
Yet to Vote6 non-votes
Xvart
Locke Lamora
Bogre
Mina
Heliograph
The Inquisition
Also, just to clarify. The initial claimer will be chosen at random, using random tags (which is awesome, the site I was from never let you use random tags). Once that person claims, they will nominate the next person to claim, who will claim and nominate and so on.
The claim will be purely character name, no PRs.
And if I see the Mountain that Rides, my vote will fly hard and fast (probably not, but I've loved hating that character)-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Actually, while that question is fine to answer in hypotheticals...
And while I'm guilty of it as well, with me mentioning of Clegane and others...
I think we should stop listing characters now. All we're doing is providing scum with our expectations, so they can avoid scummy characters, and claim, for example, Hodor.
Yes, it's likely that at least one scum has read the books, its probable that all scum have read the books (I mean, they're freaking good books), so yes, it's likely that they all know the characters. But by listing what level of character (in plot importance) we expect is giving information to the scum.
So, FOS:The next person to give hypothetical characters-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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xvart
I answered that question, even if Kinetic didn't. I claimed to have a very prominent character and a Vanilla Role. Thus I don't think that the names will lead us towards PRs.
What I hope they will do is point us towards scum.
And if so, I expect the scum to lie about who they have.
And then I hope to catch people out in lying.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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I completely disagree with that assessment.
To use characters that have already been hypotheticalled.
I can see "Syrio" and "Hodor" having as much chance of a PR as prominent characters.
Also, I don't see why we would be playing a game themed on the books if the bad guys didn't have obviously scummy characters. Sure there might be some borderline ones, but I think they'll likely be lannisters (mostly).-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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I'm not voting because I haven't started scum hunting yet.
I'm waiting for either names or for us to decide that we aren't going to do names.
When I'm scum hunting I like to ask questions and force people to answer them, I feel that doing this now will allow people to avoid voting one way or the other on the name claim, and instead respond to my scum hunting. Conversely they may respond to the name claim and ignore my scum hunting. I find that it's easier to get the town to focus on one thing at a time.
I feel that the name claim could be an amazing thing.
Person one claims: A
Person two claims: B
Person three claims: C
Person four claims: D
Person five claims: B
Person six claims: D
Person seven claims E
etc
BAM, we find two scum.
Do I think it will be that easy? No. But it might happen.
I think fake claims might also, possibly, stick out a little, even if they aren't double ups, but I don't want to go into that as it might coach the scum out of trouble.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Yay5 Votes
Seacore
Miserable
Kinetic
Buttonmen
Bogre
Nay3 Votes
Macavity
Raivann
Xvart
Yet to Vote4 non-votes
Locke Lamora
Mina
Heliograph
The Inquisition
Locke, Mina and Inq, if you don't vote soon, I'm going to look very suspiciously at you, I don't care if you vote yes, no or actively abstain, but you're dragging the day on. Helio is a waste of time, so I'm not going to bother addressing him, he flakes and lurks in every game I've seen, and doesn't offer anything much when he does play-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Vote The InquistionActively avoiding making a stance either way is scummy.
I'm pretty sure we can say this name claim isn't going ahead. But Inq discussing people discussing the name claim without actually having a position on it rings my bell.
For the record, I dont' believe a name claim would "break" the game. I believe it would put scum in a difficult position of having to lie and risk doubling up with somebody or telling the truth and then having to argue that Cersei isn't scum.
I'm going to argue again for name claim tomorrow once two people have flipped.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Great contribution there heilograph
xvart, my resistance to discussing two things at once is exactly because of players like Inq and Heilo.
It's hard enough to make them actually take a stance and/or answer questions without letting them hide from one train of thought by kind of answering another. I've seen it happen again and again.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Wait, dammit, this is what happens when you play as you're getting ready for work. I take back everything i've said about inq, I missed
a) that he voted (because he didn't bold) and
b) that xvart mentioned he voted
sigh. Good job seacore.
So I withdraw post 118 and some of 121
unvote
I'll be back soon with a post that's actually read and not skimmed poorly-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Let me clarify. I'm definitely against the idea of a mass nameclaim now. Like I said before, on the off-chance Faraday forgot to choose faction-independent names or send out fakeclaims...well, this entire discussion just jogged his memory, so now we can guarantee that a nameclaim would be useless. But I'm "interested" in where Kinetic is going with this, because he's hinting at some grand theory about the set-up.Vote: Mina
I don't like her whole train of thought with this anti name claim argument.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not voting for her because she's a Nay vote, I'm voting for her because of how she's been arguing against it.
I'm fine with the argument that outting PRs is bad. I don't think it'll do that, name a character and I can come up with a potential mafia power (or three) for that character (don't actually do this btw, I'm just saying I could) and if you think about it, you could too. But anyway, I'm fine with this being an argument.
What I'm not fine with, is her suggestion that Faraday will change the game to stop us from doing this.
To me this sounds like somebody who knows it will hurt the scum and is hoping the Mod will step in and stop it.
Kinetic and I (the two biggest pushers of the name claim) have both said that we don't think this will break the game. So why are you worried that it'll be so game breaking that the mod will have to step in? Did you not discuss fake claims during N0 with your scum buddies?-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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I see nothing "breaking" about scum being given a name that they know is scummy, not being gift wrapped a fake name by the mod, and being forced into telling the truth and trying to argue that there is nothing role related about their name or trying to come up with a fake name themselves.
There is no hand that faraday needs to take in this to keep the game fair.
Even somebody who has never heard of the book has had a chance by now to somehow find a fake name.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Given that we're not getting an extension, which I think is fair, lets get a move on.
I suggest Heilograph as a policy lynch we can all get behind.
It's also true that he may be scum. His difficulty in understanding the claim process, despite the fact that he agreed to it, can easily be viewed as a stalling and delaying tactic due to the fact that he had to be prodded each step of the way.
He's also made no contribution whatsoever. ISO him to your horror.
unvote
So here's my platform
Avote for HeilographIs a vote against no lynch, lurking and useless players. Join me, in this brave new future.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Xvart - Coldhands
Locke Lamora - Sansa Stark
Raivann - Robb Stark
Kinetic - Jon Snow
Bogre - Catelyn Stark
TheButtonMen - Arya Stark
Mina - Ser Rodrik Cassel
Heliograph - Tyrion Lannister
The Inquisition - Samwell Tarly
MacavityLock - Theon Greyjoy
Seacore - Renly Baratheon
Miserable at best - Sandor Clegane
Okay, a quick note before I head off to work.
Everything I say in regards to the name claim will assume it reflects innocence/guilt. It obviously may not.
I think we can assume that the Starks aren't the bad guys.
That's not to say that all those players aren't scum, but if they are, they're lying about their names.
There's 6 -7 stark related characters up there, too many to be scum.
I think that Theon is a good choice as Serial Killer, if there is one, but I'm happy to wait to test that hypothesis. Obviously Sandor is a good SK option too, but I think he might be scum with one or two Lannisters that lied.
It's worth noting that we have three Night's Watch related characters... I suppose they could be the scum team. Making Xvart, Kinetic and Inq the scum. Again, I'm not saying they are, but groups of three are always interesting.
Anyway, from here on in, I expect to be addressed as 'Your Majesty' or 'Your Grace' , as I am the Heir to my late brother's throne. Well, kinda the heir, best man for the job anyway.
Now where is Ser Loras... I need to... uh 'discuss' something... in his pants.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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@Macavity
I do assume scum may have lied. My assumption that I refer to is that 'actual' names reflect guilt/innoncence. Thus they would either need to lie, or hope that we don't find their names guilty.
Secondly, I don't think there's an SK in the game, but that's what sprung to mind when I saw Theon.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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On the assumption that Ben Stark = Coldhands, which I vaguely remember, but I'm not up to that part in my reread,
This means that we have only one character that doesn't have noble blood. Ser Rodrick.
To me, Coldhands also stands out. As the only character not in the first book (unless you consider the fact that Benjen was in the first book, but still)
@Kinetic, I don't really follow your "at least one of these is scum" groups. I also think you're pushing it as far as a 'location' for these events. We've got name claims from the wall to kingslanding with several locations in between. Not to mention that 'Valar Morghulis' (the latest vote count flavour) isn't mentioned until Clash of Kings.
Also, Macavity not referring to me by 'your grace' is noted. But then again, Greyjoys always have been uncivilised.
Anyway, all this is besides the point. We don't have time with all these V/LAs to really run a constructive name claim attack. So lets just kill Heilo, he's contributed absolutely nothing except delays.
More Heilo votes please.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Helio has the upside of
a) Being worthless in every game I've seen him in
b) Potentially scummy due to his absolute feet dragging on his turn to claim
c) Being a Lannister, and in my experience, not 'with it' enough to lie. (Although he's Tyrion, so not a bad Lannister)
Buttonmen has the upside of
a) Flipflopping on the name claim issue
b) Being one of the plentiful starks
c) Being lowish on the claim list (potentially a liar, and I agree that likely some starks are liars)
So Heilo removes a definite anti-town player, buttonmen removes a vaguely potential scum.
Can you please explain to me what info we get from Buttonmen's lynch?-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Renly would be a terrible person to lynch as he's related (familialy nor thematically) to nobody else in the list. So if you're trying to reason for my lynch that way, that's dumb.
Lynch me because you think I'm scummy, fine. (Although I obviously disagree with your reasons).
I'm so sick of being labelled a scum because I'm "eager helpful". I was trying to move the conversation on. We needed to make a decision whether to name claim or not, and I got us an answer. Was I also arguing for something I thought was in our interest? Yes. But if I was scum, I could have just pushed for a name claim and shut up and let the clock tick down.
As for my pushing the lynch of a lurker, just look at Heilo's last post! He's read enough to know my argument against him, yet doesn't post his own opinion.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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No lynch is never a good idea for town.
We get zero information out of it and then the scum kill somebody tonight and we start day 2 with one good guy less and no information.
It's always better to go with a lynch.
Have a read through these 9 pages and find somebody who you think should die. And then tell us why.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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If you look closely I say that Heilo is 'mostly' a policy lynch. Mostly. But I felt that the dragging of his feet, and other uber-lurks could actually be a scum, hoping that we'd take too long to get to a good lynch (and this seems to have eventuated, due to lots of v/la)
But his recent posts are just so bad that I feel he's now more likely to be a VI. I've got another theory too, but I won't go into that.
Also, I object to the idea that I'd be the prime candidate if Heilo flipped town. Tunnel much?
Yeah I've been pushing a Heilo lynch, because I felt it was the best we could do on short notice when people like you, xvart, go on V/LA. I'm not the only one. Others have been saying we lynch him or get him replaced. And I don't see him getting replaced.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Pushing something that turns out to be a mislynch does not make you a prime candidate. That's stupid.
I have had good reasons to want Heilo gone. He's absolutely useless and for a little while I thought he 'might' be scum. There's no bad logic there, no tricks, nothing that makes me scummy in the slightest for wanting him dead.
If I was in your shoes, I'd be more suspicious of him turning up scum now that I've 'jumped ship', maybe I was distancing but didn't actually want to kill him. That would have been an argument I could have respected. But you've assumed that I was pushing for town to lynch a useless town member and when it became even more likely that he would be lynched, I got nervous and backed off?
a) Why would scum want a useless town lynched?
b) If I did want that useless town lynched, as a scum, why would I back off when it became more likely?
c) Why do you assume that I'm scum worried about a town being lynched rather than a scum worried about a scum being lynched?-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Also, we've got just over 24 hours left (if my clock is right, I'm in Australia, so I get confused sometimes).
Buttonmen is the most likely lynch for today.
The other two contenders are myself and Heilo
Many people including myself feel that Heilo is town, and while a policy lynch might be okay at this point, we're not going to get consensus for it in the last 24 hours.
Obviously I don't think I'm a great lynch, but I also don't think there's enough time to convince 4 more people of my guilt. (Assuming that xvart, locke and mina are currently happy to vote for me)
So we need three more votes. Xvart has said he'll move his vote, so we need two more.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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And I'm fine with changing to Heilo. To summarise my thoughts
1)I think we've got a better chance of finding scum by going after Buttonmen, but at least he's contributing
2)I think we've got a better chance of making the game more enjoyable and flow faster by killing the anti-town that is Heilo, but I think we have a lesser chance of hitting scum.
1) wins because scum hunting is more important to me than policy lynching. Who knows, a day or two in, maybe Heilo gets replaced.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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A) You misunderstand me, I'm not dismissing scummy behaviour. I'm interpreting it in line with what I've seen from him before. The very fact that he hasn't come back online and changed his vote to you makes me think town, not scum.
B) Several things; they aren't huge, but they rarely are day 1.
1-Your flip on the name claim without giving a decent reason to why you were suddenly okay with it.
2- Mina's points are valid, you seemed to go for easy targets
3 - Your attack on Locke, compared to Buttonmen. Yes Locke was posting little, but his posts had opinions and substance in them, compared to Heilo's.
4 - I don't like the way you're picking at a single point of Locke's case, dismissed Mina's points out of hand and aren't actually building an alternate case.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
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1- The vote was close, particularly at that point, you could have voted Nay and ended the noise just as easily. Yet you completely reversed your opinion without stating why at the time.
2- ISO 1
Jumping on the Kinetic suspicion wagon, and then voting Locke for a fairly easy reason.TheButtonmen wrote:Apologies, I hadn't seen the game start.
FOS: Kinetic, as people have already said Mass name claiming i entirely worthless with this setting and he keeps pushing for it. He's also voting for someone who didn't even confirm not one of the people who has confirmed but never posted.
Vote:Locke Lamorafor being first on the list of people not posting yet.
3- ISO 10
You ignore the fact that I say "he's made no contribution" as I"m saying he's not just lurking, but doing nothing at all. I would say that this is at least "looking at him funny" and potentially "making a case on him"TheButtonmen wrote:
You want Horror try ISOing Locke Lamora.Seacore wrote: He's also made no contribution whatsoever. ISO him to your horror.
....
Avote for HeilographIs a vote against no lynch, lurking and useless players. Join me, in this brave new future.
4- Locke is concerned about the fact you don't even want to talk about the content of his posts compared to the content of Heilo's posts. I disagree that her points are 'poop'. And you're making me feel better about you being lynched because this way we're lynching a slightly scummy usless town, rather than just a useless town. If you weren't useless, you'd be trying to convince us to lynch somebody else. Even if you're going down, you can at least leave us with some points to try and win the game.
Finally. I don't think any of these points mean you are obv-scum. I don't see too many obv-scum day 1. But you're the best we've got.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3109
- Joined: November 4, 2009
- Location: Australia, UCT+10
Sigh,
You must be purposefully misreading posts, not just mine but others.
Can you find anybody else that's even slightly as scummy as you?
I'm not over the moon that you're our lynch today, but you're by far the best we've got. And you're getting better every post.
I'm not "pushing that hard" I'm stating that I'm voting for you and following up with why. The scum tells are slight, but I declare they are scummy.
I've ISO'd you at your request and either one of two things is true
1) You've made really lame cases against other players and then won't back them up
2) (And this is the one that you actually suggest) You've posted a lot but haven't made cases against people. Posting to post is a common scum tactic.
Anyway, I'm over this, I feel even more comfortable about lynching you now, thanks.-
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Seacore Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3109
- Joined: November 4, 2009
- Location: Australia, UCT+10