Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[Krazy]

I don't like his reads and he's trying to stonewall the gamestate into a situation where we comply and lynch from a very small list of people. That heavily restricts the potential for the gamestate to evolve. He's also townreading some fucking dubious slots with no reasoning. This is scum motivated or scumsiding behavior.

I guess I appreciate that it's "scumsiding" I guess I've just dealt with firebringer doing this as town basically every game I play with him so it's not really news to me. Fair though. Still, I was asking you to articulate this point so that I could like, maybe talk about Excalibur or Merchant's Dance so that we don't conflate Firebringer "scumsiding" and "playing like a dick" with him actually being scum. Like maybe we don't care and we just lynch him, but that's what we did in Excalibur and it basically set the tempo for the town loss.

[Krazy]

Her frenzy was a rush to GET SHIT DONE, not a rush to look like she was getting shit done. Read her posts. Her trajectory and reads make substantially more sense as she gets more frenzied. The posts made nitpicking her looked like they were intended to paint her in a bad light without an ounce of critical nuance, not like they were made to reach a deeper level of understanding about her cases.

At a mechanical level she's also a bodyguard and we have an IC in the game. She should be self-resolving reasonably soon. The pr theme of this game appears to present towards number culling (we've had a weak town role, a despy, and nightkills which have been exclusively firmly anti-town, which indicates a lack of a vigilante imo). A bodyguard makes sense in this setup.

She looks more like scum and her aggressors look more like town

was the "she looks more like scum" a typo in the last line here cause it seems to contradict the rest of the post

Like, if you're saying I was "nitpicking" her without searching for critical nuance, bear in mind she gave all of jack and shit nuance to her read of me the last time I played with her. While it's plausible her meta read on me is just bad because she sucks at meta, which has been the case some games, I feel like so much of her case on me was cherry-picked and insincere. Also, this game kinda just qualitatively feels like Story Revisited, which won't mean anything to anyone else but reminds me of how games feel when mastina is scum.

Wait, are you saying you don't think town has a vig?

[Krazy]

I don't care about meta. I care about the fact he's kicking the gamestate in the ass in a way that just looks like openwolfing.

Like, yes, but sometimes his reads are also quite good. Like he basically took a dump on Merchant's Dance, but he was one of the more vocal antagonists to Nancy so if he hadn't caused obvtown to suicide on him he might have theoretically helped win the game. I mean when I defended him in Excalibur I ended up eating a vig so I suppose logically I should just say fuck it let's get rid of him, but generally I feel like town's chances are actually better if you don't start lynching people just because they're pissing you off

[Krazy]

I read bits of it and it felt like she was onto something

I mean... I guess I would expect you to be more critical of her case? You actually have the most experience with my range out of everyone on site so I kinda was expecting you to call bullshit but I guess you're still self-conscious about your reads of me. You know my scumrange way better than mastina does, so... Like in a world where she's town, you're one of the people I would think would be more capable of correcting her read than supporting her tunnel. Although this does sort of remind me of how you played that mini normal where I was mason and you basically just yolo'd your read so *shrug*.

[Krazy]

I think it's unsurprising you wouldn't be in a rush to commit to a read to me as town, given you still had doubts about me in VG after a fucking doc save. And as scum you might be playing toward me in a similar manner as I played toward you in that mini normal. But like, it's weird for me to see you reading mastina saying basically objectively false things about my scum meta when you have played with me as scum way more than her and you know that I basically don't talk about "mech" as scum. I know people remember games in different ways, but it's really jarring to me for you to look at mastina misrepresenting my meta and being like "yeah sure looks right."

[Krazy]

Also, happy birthday!

[Krazy]

[Krazy]

So should I post again now or will I make Ali not want to play the game if I still end up wanting to lynch mastina after reading the last twenty pages or whatever it is

[Krazy]

Anyway now that we've had another three pages of self-serving mastina wallposts can we lynch her now?

I could refute her points but I'm pretty sure no one wants to read it anymore than they want to read her original posts themselves.

[Krazy]

Krazy should I unvote mastina for townreading me

there's this tormented part of me that wants to

I'm so confused by it

Her reads list is wildly political at this point but do what you want

[Krazy]

My townblock is mostly the same as it was in 7331. There's been a little movement in the bottom half of my pool but not enough that I feel like a new list would be productive.

[Krazy]

Six pages lol

[Krazy]

A lynch on me won't because hey guess what I'm town so after I'm lynched I'll be continuing to post my thoughts as much as is humanly possible so I don't actually shut up after I hang. Not for an extra 24 hours.

now using spam intentionally, i.e. to prevent the game from actually being readable or enjoyable for the people who aren't caught up and decreasing actual engagement

I'm sure there's a world where mastina's town and simply put, I've stopped caring about that scenario. She's so deep into this tunnel that I really have zero interest in continuing to deal with her in the next dayphase.

That she's scum and is now just deliberately trying to make the game unpleasant to read and drag the town down is what I prefer to believe because I'd like to think mastina doesn't fucking make so many bad-faith bullshit lies about me as town.

[Krazy]

No. It's more like scum don't claim bodyguard pops.

but it's mastina.

if scum had a bodyguard, then mastina would definitely take that role and would definitely claim it

and anyway, she keeps arguing that she always trust tells when a "serial killer that can 'mark' people instead and conceivably win with town" is not the fucking same as a "vigilante" so the idea that she always tells her real role is just false, but she keeps spamming the idea over and over again when it's already been refuted. But she's making it boring to refute her points because they've already been refuted and now she's just going in circles.

Like, you keep arguing that x and y person has been agency captured. Maybe you're just wrong on mastina, though?

[Krazy]

So your theory, to be clear, is that if mastina was scum she would lie about her role?

Just to make that absolutely clear, titus.

[Krazy]

Mastina role is self resolving so I really think the wagon on her is stupid

Except she's not self-resolving

[Krazy]

I've known mastina for ages. We're practically strategy sisters.

In this instance, yes. Mastina would not spontaneously claim bg as scum when she would solely be forced to protect town, and not scum.

Just want to make it clear that Titus, the person that knows mastina better than anyone else, argues that if she felt it would be appropriate then mastina would lie about her role.

Like, yes, you're also arguing that mastina wouldn't claim bodyguard as scum, but that's a ridiculous argument because mastina never imagines herself endgaming as scum, so she expects to be resolved before endgame but she tries to control *when* she goes down when she is scum.

You're also discounting obvious variations here like:
-it's a weird closed setup and she could just be a scum bodyguard, in which case, I disagree that she wouldn't claim her real role.
-for all we know Pine told her to claim bodyguard or it's some bullshit they cooked up in the scum PT.
-or she's just. lying. about. her. role. for *whatever* reason.

which you just accepted is an actual possibility, and goes against the *core tenet* of mastina's defense which is that she basically trust-tells with roleclaims.

[Krazy]

It really doesn’t matter if you think mastina is scum she has 5 allies. Lynch one of them. Mastina as scum has to force sub optimal scum kills to keep her ass alive.

no. she doesn't.

we have zero information about the scum power structure. there's been rampant discussion of strongmen and other strong counters to her role. there's no actual reason to think that scum has to adjust their play at all in response to an outed bodyguard; in fact, since she's refusing to be publically leashed but is instead going for Ali's private leash, there's no reason to think that scum won't just kill whoever she is not privately leashed to which means that the town consensus value players will not actually be guaranteed to stay alive.

there is nothing self-resolving about mastina given this gamestate

pedit: apparently dann agrees

[Krazy]

Mast has been bleeding town all over the thread, and you respond with, "I could totally refute everything you said, but no one wanted to read your posts, much less my posts about your posts."

Oh okay so you do want me to respond to her posts? Because out of the six pages of posts she just made the only thing you responded to was about how she knew Ali messaged her. How is she "bleeding town" by spamming the thread with points that have already refuted, that no one wants to read or respond to? In Story Revisited her strategy was literally to bore the town to death, and it worked. That game had so many replacements that slots had to be modkilled because literally no one would take them because the game was awful. And that's basically what she does as scum. She makes you not want to play the game. And right now, with her repeating the same already-refuted points, that Titus and even people agreeing with her accept is bullshit, all I get the sense is that she's trying to drown the thread with spam so that she escapes a lynch through pure effort.

The crux of her case on ME, which is everything she's spamming, is that I wouldn't scumread HER because I should *know* that she's town because she *trust tells* her roleclaims, which Titus literally just said isn't true and I know isn't true.

Subject: SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

I have content to respond to, which I will in circa 12 hours.
DO NOT END THE DAY BEFORE I CAN EXPLAIN WHY I AM DOING THIS AND GIVE RESPONSES TO THE RESPONSES TO MY READS.

Claim: Conditional Bulletproof/Conditional Vigilante; the conditions are inverses.

I actually lied.
I DO have a conditional bulletproof, but it only protects me from those who are ranked HIGHER; I was aiming for an ungated Vig, with the illusion of being bp.

To explain, I can kill people ranked lower than I am, but they can kill me; I can't kill people ranked higher than me, but they can't kill me.

This is why PenguinPower is literally a punclaim.

Details for everything in 12 hours.

Subject: SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

Cheetory6

Welcome, Punreader.

Everyone here is cool and unique in their own right, But only one of them is the absolute

best

. There's only one of those. Guess who that is?
You are

Cheetory6

, the

Infectious Serial Killer.

.

Alignment: Cheetory6

-- You win and exit the game when everyone alive is infected. You do not have to be alive.

Active: Spread the Word

(

Soon, they'll all know of your greatness.

) -- Once per Night Phase, you can choose to visit a target. If their rank is lower than yours, you will kill them. Otherwise, you will infect them.

Passive: Chip Represent!

(

Man, it feels good to be on top.

) -- You have access to a nightly neighborhood that consists of BipolarChemist, Equinox, and Cheetory6.

Passive: Stadium Status

-- You are Bulletproof as long as your D1 ranking is above at least half of alive players.

Passive: Libel and Slander

(

Other people want that top spot.

) -- Any 0's and 1's you are given are assigned double weight.

The neighborhood is here.

TOWN WINS

And so we limp across the finish line, game integrity mostly intact.

Congrats to Vaxkiller, Shoshin, and DeasVail, who reach endgame and survive.
Congrats to the rest of the town for their posthumous victory.

Debrief post coming soon. There's a lot to talk about.

That is not a vigilante. Her manipulating how the town interprets her role to make it seem like she's spewed town by setup is basically the foundation of my interactions with her.

Titus argues that mastina doesn't claim shit for no fucking strategic reason

Subject: A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

I was expecting a troll role when I submitted my picks, and hoh boy did RC not disappoint.

I am Ginngie, Hated Loyal Gladiator

.
Outside of lylo/mylo (which is purely by the numbers, per the role wording), I take one less vote to lynch.
I can gladiate anyone by claiming a guilty on them, but if they're not town-aligned, it'll fail.

I can maybe, MAYBE use this as a conditional cop, IF we can no-lynch after a gladiate (I need to ask RC about this), but if not, yeahhhhh...

this is her first post in story revisited. why the fuck did she claim this role as scum? why on earth would she do that? there's no reason that she would claim a role that would have explicit pro-town utility that would force her to be "resolved" as scum, right?

but of course there was. She wanted her scum buddies to get towncred for bussing her, she wanted to make sure she stayed alive for the majority of the game, and she wanted to create a massive amount of apathy in the town

all of that is consistent with what she's doing this game by spamming the thread, screaming about her own self meta, which by the way

the fucking insistence that she doesn't lie as scum:
Subject: A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

Also, Ginngie-
Did you get anything from RC saying you recognised Mastina or anything similar?

I don't think so.
If she did, it should have also been in my role PM; it was not.

Titus, the role makes plenty of sense and it's not a miller

Fun fact, Gamma's sig given my view on vote/lynch manipulation roles being equivalent to a vig is quite hilariously appropriate given my role.

She fakeclaimed D3 IC iirc? but was in actuality mafia vig, so I would definitely think it’s wise to take hers and probably most early claims with a grain of salt.

While technically true, this is incredibly misleading.
I fakeclaimed D3 innocent child...as a N2 Vigilante. (And once D3 rolled around, I realclaimed my role. So no. Didn't lie. Told the truth!)
Given my stance on Vigilantes.
That in of itself was not a lie.
It was misleading, sure.
But my stance on vigilantes is that when they successfully shoot, they

are

conftown; they are proven to be town, and thus, proven innocent, just as if they were an innocent child. (Why this, in spite of my stance of roles != alignment? Because I am a member of the NRG and I am strongly in favor of the argument of vigs not being mafia-controlled. Nontown, sure. Even antitown, fine. But mafia vigs are a fuck no to me and are borderline bastard. They're not QUITE there, in that they're akin to a mafia Godfather; it is something TREMENDOUSLY powerful for the scum to have and NOT something I want in games out there willy-nilly.)

You can see my full realclaim the moment D3 unfolds, right here.

Spoiler: The Posts in Question

Actual claim: Night 2 Vig; last night, I shot Purrcocet.

(And yes, it's spelled that way. Not Vigilante; Vig. Not N2, Night 2.)

Purrcocet, a scumread of mine no less!, claimed my fucking role. He fucking claimed Night 2 vigilante. I had been

planning

to shoot someone like, say, Kokichi Oma, but as a vig the correct play is to always just fucking shoot your counterclaim especially when you don't get the chance to fucking talk all of D2.

I was basically breadcrumbing this role in every fucking post of mine (I can pull up my VERY specific wordings in a bit), but.
The reasoning for the fakeclaim should be self-evident. I said on D3 I would be an innocent child; that's because you don't fucking give a vigilante to a scum player, and the proof would be in the second nightkill with me having killed Purrcocet. (Well originally I was planning on shooting Kokichi, but. Yaknow. Claimed my exact fucking role, and all that.) By claiming D3 Innocent Child, I would lead scum to think I had no night action; by claiming D3 innocent child, I would lead players to think that I was utterly harmless before D3.

But for SOME fucking reason.

Purrcocet isn't dead.

So.

Purrcocet.
You've got some 'splainin' to do.

BTW investigatives should stay off me; they'd be wasting their action.
I'm a D3 Innocent Child.
If you are wondering, no, not

automatic

; I have to manually

trigger

it.

Investigatives should stay off of me because a gunsmith would get a guilty on me; rolecopping or vanilla copping or neapolitaning me would be a waste because my role would be proven come N2 with a successful vig.

I made it clear from the wording here what my true role is. AUTOMATIC-->guns. TRIGGER-->guns.

I guarantee you.

On D3, after I have triggered my action.

I will be conftown.

Again, I specify TRIGGER. I also was very careful with my wording. I never said that I would trigger my action ON D3. I said, QUITE SPECIFICALLY, I would be conftown on D3 after HAVING triggered my action.

Wrt innocent child shenanigans it's possible they have something to do with the "main characters" this setup is based around

I'm not a main character; my confirmation comes from a different method altogether.

My confirmation method comes from being a fucking vig.

Or they'll just do to you what they did to me and vanillarize-neighborize you.

That'd be their funeral then because it'd turn this game from "not exactly something I want" to "oh fuck you I AM GOING TO WIN THIS SHIT" mode.

Vanillaizing an innocent child wouldn't do much because I go without being conftown in most games, but I was specifically putting A LOT OF EFFORT into the strategy behind my vig; being vanillaized after I worked so hard on that would be a "fuck you".

This is no excuse to not post any reads because you can die before hand.

I have my reasons.

Put it this way.

If a townread of mine gets run up, I'll defend them.

I'll give thoughts on players randomly. Some of these may even be productive.

But I've no reason to give full reads before then.

Also this is a good way to help ensure I

don't

bite the bullet before D3. The suspicion on me helps me stay alive.

I know how to play roles, even ones I'm not particularly fond of. (I mean, I love being conftown, but this is a fairly shitty way to get it.) And I promise you, this is the best possibly strategy for me holding this role.

"Bite the bullet" was another hint, but the strongest hint here was "roles I'm not particularly fond of". What role have I on NUMEROUS different occasions stated I absolutely loathe? That's right. Vigilante. I hate them with a passion, but they have one particular use--being made conftown. It's a SHITTY way to become conftown, but it's becoming conftown nonetheless.

Also, this was me outlining my plan.

I wasn't going to give scumreads because guess what? As a fucking vig, I can let my SHOT do the talking in terms of scumreads.

I never lie about being conftownable as town.

Exaggerate

, yes.

Mislead

, sure!
But lie, fuck no, I know better than that.

So I guarantee you.

I will be conftown.

Here I basically admitted that I was in fact not a D3 IC, because the D3 IC claim was precisely this: misleading, and exaggeration, but still the truth, because by shooting N2, I'd be conftown on D3, just as good as an IC.

I'm gonna guess she's on a team with a vanillarizor or something and planned to explain it away that way or something

Joke's on them if they vanillaize me, actually. I'd laugh my ass off if they tried.

The assumption here was that I wouldn't be vanillaized N1 (after all, they thought I couldn't be conftown until D3 so why vanillaize me N1?), and if they attempted it N2, it presumably wouldn't stop my shot from going off. Thus, why the joke would be on them if they had tried; I'd still have fucked them over with the shot.

VOTE: Katsuki

I buy Katsuki's D5 Innocent Child claim if Katsuki has the two-phase-shifted equivalent of my role. (I

suspect

Katsuki would be able to share details about my role from their own, if so inclined to share, which I imagine Katsuki is not.)

So that's not a lynch ever happening because Katsuki is going to be just as conftown as I am, albeit two phases later than I will be.

Here I stated my suspicion that Katsuki had an Night 4 Vig. I was VERY careful about my wording. Not "two-day-shifted". Two PHASE shifted. And I suspected Katsuki would be able to give details of this.

if we have 2 ics there must be a disadvantage somewhere else

Would you believe me if I said I had an idea of what?

The disadvantage I am referring to here is how Vigs require KILLING, to REMOVE a player from the game--yes, they become conftown by having done so, but shots are DISPROPORTIONATELY likely to be on town (thus why I hate vigs), on top of the chance of failure (thus the gambit to help ensure I'd succeed).

I do not believe for so much as ONE SECOND I was roleblocked, because my claim was D3 Innocent Child.
I do not believe for so much as ONE SECOND I was redirected, because my claim was D3 Innocent Child.
I do not believe for so much as ONE SECOND I was rolecopped N1 to justify them knowing my role, because my claim was D3 Innocent Child.

So Purrcocet survived by some other means.
And I don't buy that it's by a town method.

Sure enough.

Exactly as I roleclaimed.

N2 Vigilante

was

my real role, and

I really did

shoot Purcocet using it.

So like I said.

I don't lie about my role as scum.

BY NECESSITY, I will mislead; the reason I by necessity need to mislead as scum is because I love to do it as town. BY NECESSITY, I will exaggerate, I will play up things, I will make very careful usage of very specific wording. BY NECESSITY, I will try to imply something, when it is something else, but this is done purely to mimic my town meta, and I will always claim the actual real role later.

All fakeclaims have an end date.

All fakeclaims are made knowing a realclaim will need to be made later.

And when I reveal the real claim, the reason for the fakeclaim makes complete and total sense when you view it, because you go, "Oh, I understand why that was done" instantly just by knowing the real role.
You can think of it in this term.
Macho <-> Bulletproof as a switch to make, is in fact a lie.
I would tell it gladly and have done so, specifically because I knew that upon a realclaim, the reasons for me having done so would be abundantly clear. The kind of thing where I don't even need to explain it. I could end up a corpse, and that fact alone, just seeing my flip, would instantly explain my actions.

That's how "lies" of mine work. And that's why I say they're not actually lies. They are, technically speaking, not the truth. But they are a lack of truth, which when you see the truth, you understand why they were done and follow it as having been the optimal play.

Claiming D3 Innocent Child as a N2 vig was a

brilliant

play move,

regardless

of alignment and I'm actually sad I was scum that game because that move would have actually been better were I town. It wasn't really a lie, just me playing the closest I've ever played to my town meta in spite of how little I actually played the game. (Through little fault of my own, mind you.)

If the town hadn't kept quicklynching and I hadn't been so swamped with real life stuff at the time that game coulda been a contender for best scumgame I ever played, but since they did and I was busy I barely got to do anything. BUT I DIGRESS.

Point being.

I don't lie as scum; the closest I come to lying as scum is mimicking my town lies, and when I lie as town, I am most definitively not doing so just for the lulz; there is a clear, role-based reason for the lie and when you see the real role you can understand how it wasn't really much of a lie at all if it was in fact really something you could call a lie because my fondness for wordplay and precise usage of words leads me to carefully selecting words which IMPLY the meaning I want BUT ACTUALLY are me confessing to my real role.

Oh yeah and
VOTE: Skygazer

Very bad vote.

Gamma is probably town, I think.

This is true!

is what she loves to rant about as scum

making it so that she can control the dynamic of dayplay?

Subject: A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

The town mastina I know asks questions first, I don't liek this.

The town mastina you know also doesn't phonepost or write posts when late for tae kwon do or some other similar activity and yet that is precisely what I am doing this game.

I'm not as active onsite as I used to be. I also don't spend most of my time on here in the same way I used to. Most of my browsing I do on my phone now; a fair number of my posts I actually write on my phone. Not in games, not when modding, but for PT posts, MD posts, and the like, a lot of it's on my phone, during breaks in my busy schedule.

I didn't have a chance to ask the question before. The first chance I got was when the game began, and I did so immediately; I'm still waiting for a response.

Also to some extent.

Every time I play extensively on an alt, I tend to pick up some of my alt's habits on my main, that are then permanently integrated into my playstyle.

This is the first game I've played on mastina since having used one of my alts. (At least I'm pretty sure it is?) So some of my habits from there--including the increase in phoneposting and the like--have been picked up now in this game.

This is the new norm for me; I'll not be able to do what I did before. I just have too much of a life.

...Not to mention, too much of a strong Civ 3 addiction.

It's always a politicians lie tho.

Exactly!

A statement which is always true, but true in a way that is not what people would assume. A statement carefully, deliberately worded, as to imply one meaning while actually meaning another.

I don't lie; I mislead.

But this is not a role which I can mislead you on. (I mean, I suppose there could be a hated <-> loved switch but if that were the case you'd think I'd fakeclaim it'd still work in mylo/lylo as to set the bait, but. No such luck.) I can gladiate town; I take one less vote to lynch outside mylo/lylo. It's something easily proven at any time. Just, tremendously stupid to do on a whim, especially so early in the game.

I do not want to control the lynch. Keep in mind that using my power

does

, no matter what, control the lynch. Because by using my power, I automatically prevent all lynches except two, leaving it as only myself, only my target, and MAYBE (RC still hasn't answered me yet) no lynch. Which means, on D1, if I used it, I would be saying, "Hey, those 20 players who contain people you widely scumread and would love to lynch? Yeah sorry, you can't lynch them thanks to me".

The only way I don't control the lynch is if I get a guilty. Which, I suppose. Is still a form of a controlled lynch in that we lynch my target, but it's a controlled lynch in a GOOD way rather than a BAD way. (But in a game of this side, we're likely to have 4-5 scum. Even assuming the higher number of 5, that's a 16/21 chance of targeting town, and any targeting of town is instantly controlling the lynch.)

what she loves to do as scum

Subject: A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

Ginngie
Nero Cain
Gamma Emerald
randomidget
Skygazer
Invisibility
jjh927
Nosferatu
Wh4t
Porkens
Innocent Children (Nancy Drew 39 & Disquieted)
Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro)
Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)
Whemestar
KuroiXHF
Lady Angel
Vecna
Titus
Vaxkiller
Nicorobin
Chickadee

About this.

The closer to the middle, the more hazy it gets. Note that further north is more strong than further south for this though.

Wanted to start with clarifying these, though.

I had trouble forming separation in them, to give proper tiers.

But I want to explain more where I'm coming from.

This list can be thought of as a mixture of RVS and seriousness, in that it is entirely a serious list--but it involves a lot of guesswork on my part in areas.

The players near the top, there's no guesswork needed; they are actually town for definitive reasons, but it gets hazier the further down you get.

Ginngie is my top townread here because she instantly showed herself to be town. I get that she hasn't played much--I get that I haven't played much with her recently. I get that her scumgame is always getting, progressively, better and better. But in spite of that. There's just no way that her scumgame has improved in the leaps and bounds necessary for her to have so seamlessly hidden her tells. This is her towngame, through-and-through. I'm invoking the soulread privilege here; she's townier than an innocent child, town.

Nero Cain is not far behind. Nero Cain is quite capable of faking individual aspects of his town meta. It's not like he has any singular tell which works on him. He's quite capable of, say, posting up a storm as scum. But when it comes to Nero. There isn't just one aspect of difference between his towngame and his scumgame. There are multiple. And while he's capable of faking one or maybe two aspects of his town meta as scum. He can't fake them ALL. And this game, they are all, strongly, on display; he is town.

Gamma Emerald is actually a much, much easier to read player than people give him credit for. This one's a bit hard for me to explain, but all the promising signs are there. I loved his entrance into the game, and the insights he's been giving have been...well. Insightful, meaningful, and felt gamesolvy, while at the same time having his trademark level of laziness, for lack of a better word. It's casual, effortless, and natural, rather than stilted and artificial.

randomidget is a similar read. He's not that hard to get a good read on. He's always a bit of a "low-key" player, even lower than Gamma, but as town there's a certain level of insight he has even in his more "casual" style of posting. There's aspects of scumhunting and gamesolving to be found, and all the right markers are there.

Skygazer I have extensively witnessed her scumgame and towngame quite a lot (she's been in like literally every single Normal I've been a reviewer of as of late), and this is simply put not her scumgame. Not even remotely close to her scumgame. Immediately it's obvious to anyone with experience with her. The difference between the two is night and day. Even failing meta (which is, admittedly, not as extensive as Nero/Ginngie/Gamma/random metas), there's the content she has given, all of which has been in a direction I felt was distinctly pro-town.

Invisibility, I have basically no experience with whatsoever, but his gamesolving is quite similar to the others above, following the same patterns I've outlined. The insights he's given, the content he's contributed, have all felt natural, casual, and yet been pro-town in nature.

jjh, his mechanical talk I realize people didn't like--but I didn't care for it one way or another. For me, that wasn't really important at all and didn't affect my read on him whatsoever, being thoroughly null; regardless of his alignment, I feel like he'd have said much the same things as he did there. My townread comes from his content

outside

the mechanical talk, which is there if you look for it; all the places he's pushing, I can understand where he's coming from and even agree with a lot of it (see also, my placement of Titus and NicoRobin on my list and his treatment of their slots).

Nosferatu, I realize is a bit of a difficult read but I've had a fair amount of experience with Nos recently. Admittedly, basically all of it as town so I don't quite have the best knowledge of Nosferatu's scumgame, but. Everything I'm seeing matches the towngame performance I'd be expecting. There's the chance that I'm simply seeing NAI stuff across games and considering it town, but I still have liked Nos's content thusfar.

Wh4t and Porkens represent the point of null--but townish null. Herein enters the guesswork. Neither had posted at the time of my list, but the guesswork comes in, of their not having posted being a little town indicative. Not all "lack of posting" is created equal; for some users, it is indicative of town, for some it is indicative of scum, and for most it's just not indicative of anything at all. Differentiating between the three is an artform at best, but my guess here was that their lack of posting was town, more than scum.

Innocent Children had posted a lot, and while I liked what I saw more than I didn't, it wasn't anything I felt was strongly clearing of them.

Rylai and Lina had posted a fair bit, but I was far more ambivalent on their content, with about equal feelings of town/scum on them, but nothing I felt was strongly indicative of alignment.

Maid Cafe had posted a fair bit, but I wasn't that fond of their content, not liking it more than I liked it--yet in spite of disliking their contributions, it didn't feel strongly alignment indicative. Scummy, without necessarily indicating being scum, if that makes sense.

WhemeStar hadn't posted, so he was another guesswork. He's more of a nullish null, in that I thought his lack of posting wasn't really indicative of alignment.

Kuroi did post--once. 285 was something which I could easily see coming from either alignment, but I felt was slightly more likely to come from scum.

Lady Angel also had only one post--47. Similarly, it was something I could see coming from either alignment, but I felt that if Lady Angel were town, it was more likely her RVS would have had interactions with those who had already posted; it did not.

Vecna hadn't posted, so while this is also guesswork, this is a scummish null, because he absolutely

should

be posting, and posting up a storm no less. Vecna's both an incredible wallposter, and incredible spamposter. His post count is always in the hundreds, usually the 300-800 range. And in spite of producing that number of posts, about 33-50% of said posts are wallposts. He is someone I would expect to be incredible active in the game and among the first to be posting in it, so his absence felt strange.

Below that point, you get into actual scumread territory, but admittedly, not strong scumreads.

I hated pretty much everything Titus was doing and felt it was far more likely to be pushing a scum agenda; her one saving grace is that sometimes, a town Titus really does believe in those frankly anti-town things as in her moonlogicky mind being pro-town even though they really aren't. Still. While it

could

come from her as town, it is far more likely to come from her as scum.

Vaxkiller's entrance into the game felt entirely wrong. This is a little hard for me to really explain, but the places he's pushed and what he's doing just feel like...they're lacking something. Vaxkiller has a weird way of being oddly passionate as town, with some strange logic but still being someone with respectable good insights and reads, yet everything he's given has felt...lackluster. Like there was something from it missing.

NicoRobin is a read I am deliberately avoiding explaining for now; I am looking for something quite specific, but with it absent she's scum.

Chickadee's entrance into the game screamed scum, and nothing she's done in the game since then has shown anything else but scum. She's not scumhunting, not really, and is just kinda there, more worried about herself than she is about finding scum, with comments that don't contribute much of anything.

So that's where I was coming from; I need to read and give an update on these.

political reads list that lets her keep her scum buddies in bus range but not actually being actively lynched? her favorite shit as scum

-mastina writing a bunch of bullshit that leads to her not actually lynching scum = scum mastina
-mastina insisting she's obviously town if you read her posts = scum mastina
-mastina making the game unpleasant to read through some means to dissolve town cohesion = scum mastina
-fake and bullshit self-meta = scum mastina
-fake and bullshit meta on other players = scum mastina
-random roleclaim that seems to somehow spew her town = scum mastina
-"why would mastina claim this as scum?" = scum mastina

[Krazy]

I can go through each of mastina's posts and break down in excruciating detail why each post is a load of shit

but no one will want to read it, because no one wants to read it no one will be convinced because it will be too long

I CAN wallpost all day, but I have learned that people simply stop reading shit. The fact of the matter is I have played with town mastina, I know that as town she will actively engage me, she will work through reads with me, she will be dynamic in her reasoning.

WHAT TIPPED YOU OFF, WHEN I CALLED IT A VANITY WAGON IN THE POST YOU QUOTED, WHILE CALLING IT A LHF WAGON????
LOLLLLLLLL

Fuckit.

When I first read this I didn't think much of it but reading it again.

Sure, yeah.

pops is town.

This is not a "re-evaluation" I expect to see from mastina, this reads a lot more like mastina has noticed that I caught the fact that she's not dynamically re-evaluating reads and is now trying to pretend to be "solvy". It's also probably trying to pocket pops but I don't think that's the main point.

Mostly though I read mastina off feeling.

If mastina is town, I will feel one of two things toward her:
-annoyance that she is ignoring the game
-confusion over what the fuck she is thinking

the thing is, her reads this game are *too* signaled, too comprehensible, and don't reflect the dynamism that mastina as town usually has. Like it seems like she's doing a lot but it's all pretty easy to follow which is not typical of her town games.

When she is scum I think:
-she's town (at the start of the game) because she's clearly putting in effort
-then I realize that I actually hate everything she's doing to the game

mastina as town does not make a game feel like it's dragging. A game may drag but not because of mastina.
mastina as scum makes you feel like you just don't want to play the game at all, and that's basically how I feel when I read her posts. I don't feel challenged and confused by her thought processes, I mostly feel like she's trying very hard to advance a specific scum agenda that mostly hinges on her not getting lynched today.

[Krazy]

but can you please explain what a political reads list is because I am either too sleepy or dumb to comprehend that term

basically what I said above, what she does to her pops read in 7829 is the most egregious example but I also think her chenni read is disgusting and spews mastina scum and chenni likely town

To quickly give feedback:
chennisden isn't my favorite wagon, but yes, if need be, I would compromise lynch there--I wouldn't be optimistic about a scum lynch, but I'd go there if I had to.

There are five scum--even with two players (Firebringer, Krazy) as lockscum, there's three other scum in the game and I'm pretty sure that in {chennisden, PenguinPower, Pink Ball, popsofctown, the worst} we'd be LUCKY if there were so much as two, when it's most likely that there's at most one scum in that grouping, if that. There's a significant chance the group is all town, only a small chance of two scum in the group, and a certainty that there's not three scum in there.

chennisden was a weak townread--his lackluster content is admittedly suspicious and the cases for him being scum feel like they have merit to them but there's still posting which I think looks town. He's an alright compromise lynch but I'm not convinced that he is scum.

Pink Ball

Gamma Emerald--NEED FEEDBACK

MariaR--NEED FEEDBACK
Katsuki--NEED FEEDBACK

chennisden/PenguinPower (one, not both, most likely)



Firebringer


Krazy

this is not how mastina treats chenni as town but it is exactly how mastina treats chenni if mastina is scum and chenni is town

mastina as scum basically wants the town to either mislynch on their own or talk mastina into the mislynch

so what she's doing here is gross, she says in 7824 that chenni is a "weak townread" but in her list she positions chenni as a bottom four lynch candidate doing the weird thing with PP

is chenni is a "weak townread" she does not list chenni in the bottom 4 in 7829; this is a "political" read that is meant to ensure mastina gets minimal blowback on a chenni mislynch but nonetheless allows mastina to join the wagon if she cannot get the town to reach a point that they will mislynch elsewhere on their own

additionally it avoids going strongly against the town consensus by positioning chenni lowly (appeasing the people that want to lynch chenni) while still simultaneously maintaining that chenni is likely town (appeasing the people that don't want to lynch chenni) -- this level of waffling from mastina on a critical read that is her counter-wagon is scummy.

[Krazy]

No, I saw it. I should have said "I'm thinking about it," I guess.

[Krazy]

Did you see my post asking about our history?

Yes, I just chose not to talk about it for the sake of the thread.

[Krazy]

We have played games before and they left me with a considerable amount of animosity; strictly speaking your inclusion in this playerlist almost made me reject the game. I'm not going to go into which games because you've been pleasant so far and you're likely town off tone so I don't see why we can't just go with a different approach this time around. I have no inclination whatsoever to talk about our past games, it will just bog down the thread and it will not make it easier for you to evaluate me, probably the opposite. I don't believe we've played on my main to my recollection and I'm not going to start listing alts.

[Krazy]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80175
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80067
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=79824
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=80044
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=72770
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=72508
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79045
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79868
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=79779
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78060

While I was not in all of those games, you can assume that I have read at least your iso from all of those games.

Yes, you can be a dick at times, and you can be annoying in a way that can make me inclined to blacklist you. Strictly speaking I did blacklist you, I just don't actually tend to stick to my blacklists particularly when I'm on a different account and won't, in theory, need to deal with that person's animosity or make it an issue.

You're right though, strictly speaking I should be sticking to my blacklist and I shouldn't have joined this game. Sorry but I still don't want to discuss which games make me feel that way / which alts I was on because I just don't want to talk about it anymore. I've dealt with you a lot in T/T situations although we did win the last game we played together when we managed to not go down this rabbit hole. So pointedly avoiding discussing our past games has already worked for me in dealing with you, since this isn't even the first game we've played since I blacklisted you *shrug*. I guess I should call it more a "grey" list or something idk

[Krazy]

I wouldn't be leaving the site if it was 100% you that was the issue

[Krazy]

I love you pops, we'll pick up in dnd again as soon as I get bored with TFT

[Krazy]

I'm Krazly, but I need to do some work shit still tonight but maybe tomorrow afternoon if you're on and want to add me

but no need to get up right now

[Krazy]

there’s literally a vc on this page

if the point of your reaction test was to get a reaction, why would you call off the bluff when pine pretends to fall for it?

[Krazy]

Yo I'm drinkin. Titus I added you. Maria you coming to TFT night? Who wants in?

[Krazy]

Teamfight Tactics. It's like wizard poker except without spending real money

[Krazy]

ggs that was fun

we let ali win one totally on purpose just for you titus

[Krazy]

Ali are you allowed to make deals?

[Krazy]

Like, Pine gets to make all these deals, I'm wondering if you can make deals. Like can I sell you my vote and make you a full voter?

[Krazy]

Haaaaaay! *waves*

Heyyyyy :3

[Krazy]

Or I can just
Ask you to vote someone?

You could but that requires me to continue to read the game to see who you're voting in the future

[Krazy]

Besides I just don't see why in a game where it's you vs Pine it seems like Pine gets to sit around lording fruit over the town and you don't have anything cool to do during the day other than post

[Krazy]

Firebringer - town
MariaR - town
Gamma Emerald - could be scum
mastina - could be scum(ish?)
popsofctown - town
Krazy - null
Something_Smart -
PenguinPower - been seeing PP pop up as scumreads here and there, but haven't noticed anything particularly scummy.
the worst - Dislike his change on mastina. Like his vigour. Showing sorting intention with me instead of going full ham. Don't think I'm particularly good at reading him but I'll never shy away from pushing a smell
GreyICE - strong townread after his push on LLD, but dissapeared I think ever since. I think if scum he'd ride the wave of towncredit, but more likely he's just town and got murdered irl by LLD.
Titus - town
Iconeum - i'm me
Pink Ball - town
Dannflor - town - i've read the last few pages twice, and I don't see how his push is so terrible? I don't mind the pressure from either worst or dann tbh
Katsuki - could be scum
Menalque - could be scum

I'm curious why I'm the only "null" in the entire game, except I also don't know what the PP read means. @Ico, where is PP in your list overall? why did you do your list this way rather than an ordered list?

[Krazy]

Compromise ended in a disaster with A50 flipping out at me, Magical Girls ended up with like a five page argument with RC so I'd say right now I more just don't really want to look at the site basically

[Krazy]

I don't think I can explain it very well right now. You can have fun and be awesome! I'll get some sleep and see if I can't figure out my feelings better tomorrow

[Krazy]

Ok

what does kats scum game look like?

[Krazy]

VOTE: mastina

[Krazy]

LLD was bussed. Krazy is one of them, the worst isn't.

You know PB I feel like I've asked you multiple times what is going on with your read of me and I still have no idea. You say you scumread me but never engage me, vote me and unvote me without explanation, when asked for explanation ignore me, and then start making wallposts that are like "krazy is scum and these people are town" -- like it's one thing to have a wrong read of me but it seems like you want to build a whole narrative out of a few arbitrary reads that you still, even in your massive post, don't actually explain. A summary of "this person votes this person" isn't an explanation of why you are selecting some number of players to be in an apparent lynchpool.

Maybe step away from the spreadsheet and spend 30 seconds giving me a straight answer as to why you are scumreading me, then not scumreading me, then scumreading me again?

[Krazy]

Dannflor I don't ever want to lynch

when did this happen?

[Krazy]

Krazy what are your thoughts on Melanque and his recent questioning of me?

I'm thinking about it. I'll probably need to read your iso in the game he linked to see where this meta argument is coming from

[Krazy]

I don't remember stopping scumreading you since D1, Krazy. If you think I stopped scumreading you because I unvoted you, you're wrong. I unvoted you 'cause you started pushing me and I wasn't mentally prepared to 1v1ing you so I just left you hanging.

You know what, I'll do a 360° and say I agree with mastina.

VOTE: Krazy

LET'S GET KRAZY KRAZY KRAZY TILL WE LYNCH THE SCUM

UNVOTE: Krazy

This day was exhausting, I'm not having fun anymore. Sorry.

I don't post at all between 6460 and 6862 and don't vote you until 6864

I'm asking why you unvoted in 6822 -- I thought you saw something or were re-evaluating. Or something. I literally have no idea, and now you're saying it's because I pushed you, but that did not happen until 42 posts after your unvote?

[Krazy]

If mastina is scum and Krazy is town, what does mastina accomplish with a lynch on Krazy? What does she do after that? scumastina plays for the long run. A tunnel on Krazy is a short run sight, and makes sense with her claim.

mastina previous to her push on me was pushing on Aristophanes. When Ari flipped conftown, she needed a new target.

Krazy
popsofctown
DrippingGoofball
Ankamius
jjh
Aristophanes

Almost her entire list was flipped unexpectedly.

She didn't really want Ari lynched, she wanted someone to sit on and do nothing.

Ari suddenly died in the middle of a dayphase, and at that point, jjh was already dead, Ankamius had died before she planned, and that left her me, duck, or pops and she chose me to camp on next.

popsofctown

the worst

jjh
Krazy
Aristophanes

She wasn't planning on Ari dying
She didn't want to go up to duck or pops

She just needs somewhere to put her vote and is being really loud about it because she doesn't want to be accused of lurking or camping. This is still very similar to how she played Story Revisited. She doesn't want to be a town leader as scum, and despite the noise she has brought to our 1v1, she is not *trying* to be town leader here. She wants the town to go elsewhere and do its own thing while there's doubt about whether the person she's pushing is actually scum or actually town. She just needs somewhere to sit, and she knows that as town I will not let myself get mislyched so she never has to deal with the fact that I will flip town and she'll face the consequences.

[Krazy]

But when it's Krazy joining one last game and only because Ank is there too but then she's dead narrowing the scope of his involvement with the game by tunneling is pretty expectable?

or it could be that mastina is scum and I'm getting bored of the fact that we can't just join hands, sing kumbaya, and lynch her.

[Krazy]

The unvote was because I felt like shit irl and I didn't want to take stances at that moment. It had nothing to do with my read on you.

okay well I don't know why you couldn't have said this when I asked you earlier wtf was going on?

what

the

fuck?

I'm so confused by literally everything you have done today Pink Floof

Actually I guess this technically isn't a direct question but I'm still kinda confused why you wouldn't respond given you were apparently scumreading at the time. Like even if you're skimming, don't you at least read the posts of the person you're scumreading?

[Krazy]

I was ignoring you

OK Pink Floof but maybe my tone is more aggressive (I don't even think I am honestly but w/e) because people keep ignoring things? Like I don't remember you just straight up not responding to stuff in Tatsuya's upick even when you were lurky-ish

[Krazy]

Krazy like specifically ignored inquiry on the topic

What I was wondering was why Alyssa buys into Dann's suggestion of Buffy rather than saying something like "I'm bringing Buffy" from the getgo to make it a bit more obvious

But she did say she was going to go to his house and watch Buffy which could easily be construed as a crumb for a slayer's gambit.

I just don't know whether I like it more than my Mena theory

It's also the case that I'm familiar with the extent to which Dann and Ank shitpost to each other, but I don't want to say it can't be a crumb just because they shitpost.

[Krazy]

I am already doing so

[Krazy]

shitposting is a pretty good way to hide crumbs

Yep, and on one level it makes more sense than Mena given Mena was more toward the bottom of her list and she said she wanted to make sure scum had 'nowhere to hide' which would suggest more of a mid-range pick.

[Krazy]

Pine, if you give me the vigilante fruit I will give you absolutely nothing.

How does that sound?

[Krazy]

He claims not to have enjoyed it. He made posts that gave the appearance of enjoyment.

He hasn't /in'ed to a queue in a way that proves he is having a renewal of vows with mafia

So...what should I make of this?

I liked getting a chance to hydra with Shiro but I thought the game was awful, the entire thing was a shitshow with RC.

I'm not sure how you think that would adjust my day 1 play here other than the fact that this game was less awful.

[Krazy]

Dann why do you think Ank chose "Buffy" among your tv choices?

[Krazy]

Magical Girls was more awful because I died earlier

I'm so nice to have around

I bring the joy

While I feel sorry for not de-escalating things with RC more consciously I've really had it with him and his AtE in every single game, I did make a conscious effort to not destroy the thread with it at least

I still don't really get why people scumread you or were ok with shooting you

[Krazy]

The Good Place.

I keep trying to make progress on the third season but I kept stopping and starting the first episode of season 3 for like a month and now I'm only like 30 seconds into to episode 2

I'm sure it will even out, I think their season starts tend to be really rough cause they have to pick up the mess of their season finales

[Krazy]

idk maybe you're a scum god but that's not something I can consider right now

does pops deserve an oscar, Dann?

[Krazy]

I've only watched the mainstream animes

Your Lie in April was pretty good

I'm sorry but I kinda don't think "Your Lie in April" is mainstream, that's not a comment on its quality I just don't think it's particularly well known other than being on Netflix?

[Krazy]

actually I've never seen Death Note so its probably unfair to say its trash

Misa is a great character

I think it suffers from a slowdown in pacing like a lot of shows do toward the middle but I think the premise was really strong and I still think about it every now and then

[Krazy]

Sword Art Online (it's terrible but it's a must-watch so you can watch the abridged version)
No Game No Life
Death Note
Attack on Titan
Your Lie in April
something else that I'm forgetting

they were all varying degrees of pretty good - meh

except sao

someone recommend me a 10/10 show

Dude while I'm inclined to say "those are rookie numbers, get those numbers up" I think you have a decent familiarity with anime from that list

I'd say Neon Genesis Evangelion, Serial Experiments Lain, {obviously anything Ghibli, not sure if you are intentionally skipping those because they're so famous people forget they're anime}, original Ghost in the Shell film

Also like, I wonder if music-video films count, like Daft Punk's Interstellar or the new "Sturgill Simpson: Sound & Fury" thing on Netflix which I actually enjoyed more than I thought I would

[Krazy]

Oh yeah and also Your Name, although that's also drifting into the super famous territory but it was pretty good.

Oh yeah, and Satoshi Kon stuff: Perfect Blue and Paprika were both great.

[Krazy]

In terms of "greatness" I'd go Mononoke > Grave of the Fireflies > Spirited Away > Nausicaa > else but in terms of rewatchability definitely Mononoke > Nausicaa > Spirited Away > Grave > else

I enjoyed Castle in the Sky and Totoro actually but don't know that I'd shove them into an ordered list or anything. Didn't manage to finish Kaguya (tried watching on a plane or something) and still need to get my hands on Marnie.

[Krazy]

Hotaru no Haka is kinda like climbing mount fuji. It's something everyone should see or do... once.

[Krazy]

to TFT or to mafia

hmmm

[Krazy]

26 pages and 600 posts since Saturday

k

[Krazy]

I know, I'm sorry, I've been unfair to you and I'm not usually like this, even with my scumreads.

can I say that it feels really weird that you're apologizing for scumreading me

I continue to just be perplexed by basically everything you're doing this game

Momentary prod dodge; have been spending time with girlfriend and girlfriend > mafia games even ones I desperately know need my attention which I promised I would. (Technically I still have two days to not break that promise, but I was counting on having four to do everything I said I would. )

I really really do want to explain why I need to revisit reads on players.
Namely, to keep the longest story short:
There was a Firebringer post yesterday that didn't quite make my read do a 180, but made it as close to a full 180 as is possible--Firebringer went from lockscum where he was previously, to, "I mean...if I don't have any other scumreads then I guess by POE he'd be scum, but...if there IS a scumread I'm missing, then he's town".
I really want to explain that better; one of the people I need to revisit is in fact Dannflor.
I have not done so yet.
So if I do so and conclude he's town I'll be removing this vote.
But for the time being:
VOTE: Dannflor
With the promise that this is a vote that I can and will remove if after reviewing I feel he's town.

hmmm

VOTE: Dannflor

oh okay, yeah it's definitely not like mastina has started re-evaluating her read after Ali and S_S started voting Dann

like this is also after we talked about whether he's the possible target from Ank, but mastina just doesn't want to talk about that I guess. Instead she's decided it's time to re-evaluate Dann, and you know, that has nothing to do with the fact that Dann is getting pushed and is the counter-wagon to her at this point.

ok.

but yeah it makes sense that mastina is still alive 26 pages and 500+ posts after this purely scum post lol

[Krazy]

oh ok

so what you're saying is

we need something special

[Krazy]

have you been a bad girl pops?

[Krazy]

{dann, Titus, mena}

there's been good chances in Dann/Mena for a long time so if you cut Titus yeah I think this is a good start

MariaR has unjustifiable positions. Flat out. She's scum.

Titus are you being a bad girl

I'm the new Alisae, I'm endorsing Krazy and PenguinPower.

VOTE: PenguinPower

Yeah, I find these weird shifts in your tone just incredibly difficult to wrap my head around. Like as either alignment. Why apologize for scumreading me then "endorse" me like Alisae?

Titus why have you switched your opinion on me and are now trying to actively weaken TRs on me?

why did you only start pushing counter-wagons when mastina is finally going to get lynched?

[Krazy]

dude he's probably just scum

he's certainly not playing as town, I guess I don't 'get' it as a scum strategy? but yeah I don't see why his tone keeps snapping like this if he's town

[Krazy]

I need to be punished

pops you won't get your punishment unless you explain why you aren't voting mastina

[Krazy]

You know what Ali, I am done. Mislynch obvious town. This is the Ali show and the rest of us get no say at all.

there's no fucking way Titus says this as scum after she basically pile drove the chennisden lynch LOL

this level of incredible dissonance is basically impossible for someone to fake

What makes you think Mastina's BG claim is self-resolving, despite earlier fakeclaims and all the signs pointing to Ank having hid behind Mastina N1?

wait what

of all the reasons to lynch mastina this was not the main one I was thinking of -- has this been mentioned before?

SS, me - town
PB
mastina

ducky - TLs
dann
MariaR


fb - null
gamma
greyICE!slot
kats
icon

PP - scum
Krazy
Titus
pops

this is a scum reads list

[Krazy]

She pocketed me in post 9303 and also had this really genuine sounding progressions and reads.

It touched me in bad places.

she pocketed you in the post where she basically flips her read of Dannflor while saying she has no actual reason to flip her read on Dannflor, says she's going to reread Dannflor then doesn't do so, but somehow manages to continue writing like four more paragraphs for no reason?

okay pops. yeah, you might be ready for some punishment

[Krazy]

VOTE: mastina

so you just gonna ignore

I'm curious why I'm the only "null" in the entire game, except I also don't know what the PP read means. @Ico, where is PP in your list overall? why did you do your list this way rather than an ordered list?

idk, looking at them maybe they're not that exciting of questions, but they are kinda important to me. Like you kinda ghosted the thread after you got pushed in that one newbie game but I don't remember you straight up ignoring me

[Krazy]

I was going to say that I want to trade Gamma for Icon but I honestly still just want Icon to like, actually respond to me

I don't want Gamma that far down but otherwise that's pretty much my solve I think, assuming nothing super notable happened in like the last ten pages or whatever I had left in my catchup. I could play with Gamma for Icon but doesn't feel great, need to think about who else I would swap

[Krazy]

@Krazy??? I'm apologizing for not engaging with you, not for scumreading you. Pretty obvious by context when we were talking about me ignoring you.

okay well then why don't you actually engage me on why you scumread me

because so far I think maybe you said "tone" once which doesn't make me understand why you can't toneread me or what you actually want to push me for

why am I scum pink floof?

[Krazy]

I mean 1 of those 6 is town

then yeah, move gamma up

[Krazy]

Worst - town
Dannflor - town but good lynch because new avi is annoying
Iconeum - idk
Menalque - town
Titus - town
mastina - stressballs
Krazy - stressballs complement
PB - poe scum unimpressed by the spreadsheets
MariaR - idk
Firebringer - town
PP - scum
Katsuki - scum
Elsa Jay - conftown
Something_Smart - probably town
Gamma Emerald - I don't know

Can you point me to where worst townreads mastina? I must not have hit that yet in my catchup

There's scum in Mena/Dann and honestly I think both are scum at this point

I'll look into the others, but Maria is town and I think her scumread on mastina is worth considering.

So. Let's lynch mastina, please.

[Krazy]

Krazy why am I town

you towntold while drunkposting

We can talk about it if you want that but it's not like you can't look at my ISO and see my reasoning behind it when I've talked about it with other players... What would you like to accomplish by talking it with me directly? To get a townread by me? You're not townreading me, that doesn't make sense

Was there some reasoning stated in the last few pages? Because I've seen your posts and I don't see any reasoning on me, I just see you making weird posts and then declaring me scum. I think I saw you say like one thing about tone which I don't honestly know how *you* would expect to convince anyone?

[Krazy]

That was @Krazy. We can talk this through but it's 3.30 in the mornimg and I'm here because I fell asleep in the couch and while going to bed saw you posting. You're not getting lynched so... Could you wait for my answers a bit?

can you please bus mastina before you go to bed?

I asked nicely

:3

[Krazy]

This is a non-alignment post.

this was an obvious lie

also I just don't really believe that you get drunk and come into the thread gushing to everyone as scum

you remind me of drunk town skygazer, basically. drunk town skygazer is very different than drunk scum skygazer and while I haven't been great at telling the difference to the two in the past in real time I'm feeling pretty good that that was drunk town pops

if you do get drunk and come gushing into threads as scum and feel for some reason you want to convince me of this you're welcome to.

[Krazy]

why are you bringing up magical girls when I'm in a good mood?

[Krazy]

I thought the "lynch all liars" was a reference to magical girls since that was how the whole fucking thing with RC started

I guess you were just being provocative or something?

[Krazy]

That... what?

That was not why you were town, that was me joking about the fact that you said a wildly AI post wasn't AI

[Krazy]

@pops nope

This is when the worst says he is back to TR on mastina

wasn't the question "are you heavy on scumastina"?

saying "no" to that is not the same as a townread

@duck do you townread mastina?

[Krazy]

I can't tell when you're joking your avatar is some kind of angry neko girl that is indigenous to an urban candy shop

It's D.Va 0.o

Spoiler:

[Krazy]

oh I see.

duck

have you been a naughty anatidae?

[Krazy]

No.

[Krazy]

I'm loyal retainer, hooded by Titus

Game is way more bastard than I thought. The flavor for the hood was: 'you're hearing voices in your head, are you 'crazy'? No, it's just Titus' ... Jingle said it was 'just Titus', and while it was clearly the punchline to his joke that's still misleading

Anyway, as has historically been the case, almost everything about this hood pissed me off. I like Titus, she's cool, but, here's basically our conversation (nutshelling a couple pages):
Krazy: "hi why did you hood me"
Titus: "so we could talk"
Krazy: "okay did you want to talk about mastina?"
Titus: "no."
Krazy: "okay should we reveal the hood to the town so your use of the fruit is confirmed?"
Titus: "no, 'if you're town we need a chat without scum interference, and maybe we can even pull a gambit on scum"
Krazy: "everytime I see people play gambits from hoods it backfires on town"
Titus: "'Good scum love to control information.'"
Krazy: ... ok?
Titus: Anyway what do you think about Mena
Krazy: I haven't had time to read the game he linked in his meta so I can't say if it's a misrep or not
Titus: Well I've changed a lot since that game so choosing a game from so long ago is kinda scummy. Anyway what's your reads list
Krazy: Maria, Titus, Pops town, GreyIce probstown, etc.
Titus: I just learned that the vig fruit I got is going to kill me.
Pine: HELLO TITUS! I WANT TO MAKE A DEAL! *shit he posted earlier in this thread*

So yeah, mod strongly implied it was at least a private hood, so that kinda pissed me off.

Anyway, it continues.

Titus: "I struggle with the current terms because it suggests that I am more valuable than any town, including the masons."
Pine: "Copy and paste all of your messages from Ali, and I will send you my entire scumteam setup by Jinglenet at daystart"
Titus: "What do you think Krazy?"
Krazy: "I think the idea that he docs you is laughable and clearly accepting any part of the deal is so obviously gamethrowing that I don't really see a point in responding to it."
Titus: "If the deal is honest, then it makes sense to take it if I don't have confidence on shooting scum."
Krazy: "The deal isn't honest, because Pine is scum"
Titus: "Is mod allowed to renege on his deal?"
Jingle: "Yes."
Pine: "I'm gonna sweeten the deal."
Pine: "My final offer:

•I will save your life
•I will send you the scumteam setup at daystart
•You will post all of your messages from Alisae here
•I will give you four choices as to whom to shoot, one of which is guaranteed to be scum"

Titus: Done.

Krazy: ...

Titus *posts messages from Ali*
ex:
"If you want to shoot Mena, the person who knew that mastina is going to flip town, and is using this very sketchy angle to push pops during twilight, then be my guest.
PP
Pink Ball
Mena

Those are your shots
Have fun
If one of those flips town, you have my cooperation."

Krazy: y u do this thing Titus?

Titus posts letter: Before Pine's offer, her #1 shot was kats, but this is the first time she mentions it (she elsewhere mentioned fire was her #2 shot before Pine's offer). I don't know why Pine redacted that?

Titus: "I've made the deal. What do you think of the options?"
Krazy: "I just said pops is my #3 townread. You are my number two townread shooting my number three townread. This is a bad deal and a bad shot, just tell Pine to fuck off."
Titus: "Well I accepted the deal with Pine. I'll honor it because of the spirit of the game and I want this to continue. I believe it's protown to do so."

lol fuck this game

[Krazy]

Duck, you have 0 scum in Dancefloor/Mena?

[Krazy]

Easily

[Krazy]

vigorous pool

what is a vigorous pool?

[Krazy]

vigorous pool

Pine told Titus to shoot in me, SS, Ico, and pops. SS was conftown so she thought she had basically a 33% chance with the gate.

[Krazy]

Why did you visit me last night Pengii?

[Krazy]

Were you holding the camera at an angle? Also that yellow window makes it look like you put one big post it note on your monitor

[Krazy]

Are you lain of the wired?

[Krazy]

Her room gets very dark as the show goes on,enough so I think occasionally she hides and surprises people who come to visit her

[Krazy]

It's hard to tell, sometimes it seems like it cause she's wearing warm pajamas but other times she's in pretty light clothing so maybe not. She does have a lot of water cooling tho

[Krazy]

You should definitely watch it, I liked it way more than haibane renmei even though it's less consistent and some episodes get very silly

[Krazy]

Time to get a bigger desk

[Krazy]

Or just don't use two monitors

It's really only useful if you're doing stuff with video or streaming imo

[Krazy]

Pink Floof

who do you imagine Ank hid behind?

[Krazy]

Krazzy

Why the sad face duck?

[Krazy]

I've literally never played with Menalque before. I don't know how he plays. He fits the specific type of player

I've been trying to hunt for

because the way I'm seeing the game, that specific type is the most likely to hold scum.

Yeah what do you got

the breakfast club, moana, seven seasons of Buffy

yknow the usual

Looks like a Buffy night

Like there's no way Ank hid anywhere outside of Mena or Dann.

Dannflor
Mastina
chennisden
Menalque
Lady Lambdadelta
Pine

The question is whether she hid behind her top living scumread, someone who no one else was scumreading, or her 4th highest scumread.

There's basically no way she hid behind anyone else.

So I find arguments that Dann + Mena are BOTH town sus

[Krazy]

ah yes
its to the spirit of the game to trust scum and not try to outplay them but instead play literally into their hands.

That was a verbatim quote of Titus, I disagreed with her emphatically. Don't make me shittalk her play from the graveyard more than I have.

She agreed to Pine and started posting messages basically immediately after Pine made an offer *after* she confirmed that Pine could renege on the deal.

Do you think I can fabricate that level of obstinance from Titus? Really?

[Krazy]

I don't even know that you do, it seems like most of what you want to do today is to fuck around and gaslight everyone

[Krazy]

You are pretty obviously fucking around

[Krazy]

I didn't say you were a useless piece of shit?

I said you were fucking around

I'm waiting for you to be done so we can lynch Dann

[Krazy]

Pissing me off is getting something out of the day phase?

[Krazy]

You just said you were taking mastina "Krazy would have replaced out if he was town" on faith?

And that I would be towntelling at 2 AM right when I'm about to pass out?

And then ask why I would think you're scumreading me for something when you make two back to back posts before that about why you're scumreading me?

[Krazy]

Give me one reason I should want to play this game

[Krazy]

SS claim

[Krazy]

No. Claim.

[Krazy]

Because I'm tired of fucking around and being jerked around.

We're not letting Ali decide the lynch so it's time for you to claim and for Kats and Ali to stop trolling and gaslighting everyone.

[Krazy]

Yes.

Are you going to 100% blame Ali if we lose?

No?

Then stop wasting everyone's time and claim. We are going to decide as a town.

It's mylo. The only reason you haven't claimed yet is because of ego. Not yours in this case but all the same.

[Krazy]

Eliciting a replace out is against site rules and you are not the mod.

[Krazy]

Are you going to 100% blame Ali if we lose?

are we actually going to turn this into a blame game?

This is toxic. I was saying we cannot blame you for a loss so we should all solve together and you fucking accuse me of blaming you

That is the opposite of what I was saying and you should damn well know it

[Krazy]

Are you going to 100% blame Ali if we lose?

are we actually going to turn this into a blame game?

Probably

When did you start goading on misunderstandings fire?

[Krazy]

I honestly care more about who is town atm then who is scum
let's start building a townbloc
SS, MariaR, Kats
lets start with those 3 for the foundation of our townbloc

alisae

Maria is uncc'd protective and obvtown (or at least this is how you seemed to want things to appear I guess)

Ss is conftown

There is a missing mason and it's not ss because otherwise ss does not get desperado'd basically with your blessing

You clearly wanted everyone to treat kats as the mason, but at the same time you:
A) wanted kats to continue trolling the town with a beloved princess claim
B) interrogated anyone who pointed out that the beloved princess claim was bullshit when it clearly was, effectively demoralizing people for calling out a bullshit claim.
C) have people solve and discuss the game in good faith
D) hide 1/6th of the living player's roles in mylo
E) not lead the lynch

so kats is *probably* the mason (which I figured out because of this one post given I can do math) but you won't confirm it making it hard to decide what the point or purpose of pages of people clearly getting frustrated with you shutting them down on kats.

That's gaslighting. Me calling you out on gaslighting the town is not me "not wanting to play the game" it's me getting frustrated with you obviously misleading us while still making the mason obvious. You were giving the scum more information than the town and forcing me to dance around your obvious and distracting softs.

Like we need something to solve with. It's one thing to hold all the cards and just declare a lynch, it's another to tell people in a 400 page game to keep solving while you're really obviously lying to them.

And then you bring up mastina of all fucking people and say you're going to sheep her because I'm not diving a lynch? I was trying to get us back to dann without gaslighting ico and duck for another ten pages. But at the same time wanting you to stop fucking with people means I "don't want to play". Yeah I guess I'm done

[Krazy]

Wow Dann wolfing is actually hilarious

[Krazy]

LOL

[Krazy]

I also feel Krazy suddenly stopped tunneling me when I started tentatively feeling better about his slot after the mastina shit

or like his tunnel on me has no fire behind it anymore

Are you Donald Trump?

[Krazy]

Spoiler:

Dannflor
^Dannflor is an amazing town player but I've zero idea how Pine would think of him in terms of selecting him as a scumbuddy. That having been said: his play this game is incredibly underwhelming given what he's capable of. It's a little bit iffy as a result.

I kinda think Dann actually is an above average equity pick also because of Vengeful Ghosts; he had a night 1 save as a doctor (even though, as far as I know, Pine completely forgot this occurred halfway through the game--so your mileage may vary here). Still Dann and Duck kinda saved the game in the dead thread with him so I think Dann and Duck both have pretty decent pick equity.

oh ok dann is scum

pedit: also bahahaha this whole "ooh how does fruit work let me bargain for it" the past 10 posts is so fucking fake

town Dann never writes this lol

like I agree with this but *what did you mean* by this?

@Dann why did you ignore this?

so if maria's vote is scummy FYPOV why are you not unvoting me here?

@Dann why did you ignore this?

Krazy like specifically ignored inquiry on the topic

What I was wondering was why Alyssa buys into Dann's suggestion of Buffy rather than saying something like "I'm bringing Buffy" from the getgo to make it a bit more obvious

But she did say she was going to go to his house and watch Buffy which could easily be construed as a crumb for a slayer's gambit.

I just don't know whether I like it more than my Mena theory

It's also the case that I'm familiar with the extent to which Dann and Ank shitpost to each other, but I don't want to say it can't be a crumb just because they shitpost.

I've literally never played with Menalque before. I don't know how he plays. He fits the specific type of player

I've been trying to hunt for

because the way I'm seeing the game, that specific type is the most likely to hold scum.

Yeah what do you got

the breakfast club, moana, seven seasons of Buffy

yknow the usual

Looks like a Buffy night

Like there's no way Ank hid anywhere outside of Mena or Dann.

Dannflor
Mastina
chennisden
Menalque
Lady Lambdadelta
Pine

The question is whether she hid behind her top living scumread, someone who no one else was scumreading, or her 4th highest scumread.

There's basically no way she hid behind anyone else.

So I find arguments that Dann + Mena are BOTH town sus

So a few points for reference, in 2650 I observe that Dann is a likely pick for Pine; Dann had been pushing me weakly off and on before but he becomes significantly more aggressive after this, which I observe in 3019 and 3055. He spends the next dayphase kinda pushing me but then begins to drop off his push as I get focused on mastina. Dann tries to stay off both me and mastina a lot of the time after this, which would fit with a scum agenda of letting a TvT persists while not really wanting to get into it too much. In 7279 I noticed that Dann seemed to be ignoring my posts more frequently which surprised me given his read on me had seemed so unstable and he had seemed so paranoid.

I feel like 8856 is important though. Dann had stalled on updating his read of me for a while at this point, and I think that he was trying to decide how I would react to pops' theory that he might have been Ank's guilty. I wasn't really sure at the time because I think the language Ank used irt to Dann had previously been used toward Dann and it seemed like there was a crumb, but the other contextual evidence suggested she hid behind someone who wasn't her top scumread and her "slay" language used toward Dann came late in the day, whereas her language toward Mena came early. In this sense I think Ank *was* planning to hide behind Mena earlier in the day, and changed her mind toward Dann later in the day, but I hadn't really reached that conclusion at that point. But what's important here is that after this, Dann really spends a while pretty much openly townreading and defending me. That is until 10777, when I start emphasizing that while there's room for doubt between Mena and Dann, Dann is the stronger case at this point but there's really no plausible target outside the two of them. And in fact Dann had argued against using Ank's guilty at all, which I found pretty suspicious. It's one thing to have doubts, it's another to use the challenges in Undertale as an excuse to ignore a potential mech guilty.

What this says to me is that Dann has been not been genuinely sorting me for the entire game, pushing me lightly early, backing off when I became focused on mastina, townreading me when I wasn't certain he was a guilty, and then immediately scumreading me when I reconsider that position. It's not just that Dann's read of me changes in response to my read of him, it's that his tone changes as well.

blah I don't like either of the top wagons

VOTE: Krazy

I'd like to talk about your reads the next time you pop in

Like this is not a very scummy post independently but the important thing to bear in mind here is that Dann never follows up on this ever. And, as I mentioned before, he later in the game just starts ignoring my posts altogether. Whenever I'm online I feel like he's not really that interested in interacting with me or talking about reads, even though at points like this he pretends like he cares. If there was actually followup this might be townie but instead this seems more like virtue signalling.

pedit: also bahahaha this whole "ooh how does fruit work let me bargain for it" the past 10 posts is so fucking fake

Tonally this is just very at odds with town Dann. As I said before, Dann never writes something is "so fucking fake" when I am asking a few basic points about how the core mechanic of the game works. As I observed before, in Merchant's Dance I was town and talked about mech extensively, but he pretends like this never happened at this point until he goes back and reevaluates later, until he then decides to drop that reevaluation when my read of him changes.

I'm still 100% down for a Krazy lynch

his posts at the end of D1 were disgusting

Why is saying "Dann is scum" "disgusting"? This is a brand of hyperbole that is very much not in line with how Dann plays.

The OMGUS reaction was extreme and you refused to engage with me beyond that

He defends his tone there with this post, but again, why is saying he is scum on tone "extreme"?

I'd still lynch Krazy over Mastina, but their interactions today town ping me for both of them.

I'm not really convinced my pops' scum slip case.

As a point of reference, I begin pushing mastina in 6320. As soon as I start pushing mastina, Dann backs off me. This is important for three reasons:
1) Dann is now arguing that it would be easy for me to fake my push on mastina. If this was the case, why did he in the moment feel like I was townie for it?
2) Dann moves away from discrediting me, which means that my push on mastina (town) will be more likely to gain traction
3) Since Dann is no longer pushing me, I'm now less likely to veer off of mastina back on to him -- but now he accuses me of not tunneling him during mastina. That's Trumpian shit right there lol

I should probably just stick to my gut on Krazy

VOTE: Krazy

But then despite apparently seeing townpings from me on mastina he goes back to me if it seems like I'm the more likely lynch just a few hundred posts later with no explanation beyond that of what actually prompts this reevaluation yet again.

mastina

- Like, I don't even care about the claim. There's definite problems with saying this slot will resolve via night actions, but that's fine because I'm pretty sure the slot is just town via day play? I understand why pops latched onto that one sentence as a slip, but as somewhat backwards of a thought process as it is it's something that town!mastina would actually think. Her reads and analysis have a consistent progression that doesn't read too forced—like how she's been scum reading PB, Pops, and the worst less today. And her case on Krazy is GOOD actually, but I'll get to that. She's just town? I haven't seen one good case against her and every post I read from her just reminds me more of Undertale.

Krazy

- can we just lynch here please. It's a slot Fire won't govern AND it's scummy. It's like the best of both worlds. Mastina's case is basically what I've been saying since late D1. Krazy's ISO is largely mechanics, something several people remarked was within his comfort zone as scum and was a large source of paranoia throughout MD so I know mastina isn't just pulling that out of her ass. I think someone like MariaR said there's nothing in Krazy's ISO why are we lynching this but like... That's exactly it. Town!Krazy doesn't have "nothing" in his ISO. I was town pinged by his interactions with Mastina at first today but his catchups since than have been too angery and too off tonally for me to believe this is town Krazy. I keep comparing to MD and I realize meta isn't everything, but the difference in tone feels like night and day. I think if this was town!Krazy I would be town reading him by now... and it's just not happening.

tl;dr: can we lynch krazy and stop voting the pops/tw/mastina vanity wagons

thank you for coming to my TED talk

I've cut this up so this thread doesn't break but let's consider this in light of 6622 -- it's like he can't remember what all he has said about me at this point or something tbh, which is something I can only imagine coming from a scum Dann.

Krazy, I'm not ignoring you, but responding to your posts is going to take more time than I have right now. So it's gonna have to wait until later.

He now doesn't have time to respond to the person he's saying we should "just lynch"

consider my vote simultaneously on krazy and chennis

Saying he's okay with either potential mislynch

[Krazy]

If we lose this game on a Krazy Lynch after my other 2 big trs shot each other I might just bash my head into a wall

We're lynching Dann today

[Krazy]

i am interested in what krazy in particular does with this

This is really important. Dann starts *really* stalling on his read on me once pops asks about whether it's potential Ank's guilty was actually on him.

I've been wondering about this a lot and given that both Dann argued to totally ignore the guilty and Mena argued that it should be in one of Ank's high townreads, I think it's plausible that Mena and Dann are both scum and they actually just didn't know which one the guilty was on. So they tried to kill the guilty altogether. But they've both been working to get themselves mutually townblocked and to discredit the idea the guilty is on them since then.

I'm with Titus on the Mastina/Krazy dichotomy

I'll hammer chennis if that wagon picks up more steam than this one

Gonna wait for Krazy to return to the thread / see what he does with Pops' crumb before I continue that 1v1

Continues to stall

and I don't really see Krazy as not scum

Slight discrediting

ok I will case Krazy tomorrow probably

it is possible I am wrong

Never happens

hi krazy I actually like this post from you ???

but can you please explain what a political reads list is because I am either too sleepy or dumb to comprehend that term

possibly both

Flips his read on me when mastina gains traction

im rereading Krazy's iso in merchant's dance right now and

I was expecting to be able to case him off that

but it's actually way more similar than I thought

In post 538, Dannflor wrote:
Also Krazy just posted two big posts again (about specific players in the game and not mechanics) with 0 reads

One of them was explaining why I don't want to form a read of a player before they have posted lol

Also, I feel like my 'early reads' last time hurt more than helped; while they may have made me townread, I didn't feel like they helped town naturally sort the player list, so I'm trying to be a little bit less pushy on my reads early on this time tbh

I even scum read him for similar reasons I started scum reading him here for

basically idk why but my memory of that game was warped and the tone matches too

bullshit meta to justify his flip on me after pushing me half-heartedly the entire game

Dann why do you think Ank chose "Buffy" among your tv choices?

Buffy is the best tv show ever created

I'm okay getting lynched for my Buffy read I will die on this hill

Actively downplaying the guilty

@Pine,

MariaR, Krazy, Pink Ball, PP, Iconeum

That's a short but not locked list

I like the Ico, PP, and PB solve

really ?? on the Maria scum reads and I'm warming up on Krazy

Continues his read shift dramatically after I don't finger him on the guilty

Okay dann, if mastina flips green where do we look

If mastina flips red where do we look

I think it’s probably flipping green given Pine’s hammer and ignoring subsequent posting. Doesn’t really change where I’m looking given I’ve never had Mastina in my solve. I would still be looking at about PB/Krazy/PP/Ico/Kats

If it’s actually a scum flip, I think that town spews Krazy a lot. And I would look at you for scum instead.

There’s probably a deeper wolf somewhere that I’m missing but I don’t think it behooves me to look for that right now

Sets himself up to flip his read on me again after a mastina townflip

i have some thoughts on that VC stuff already but ill bite my tongue for now

WHERE KRAZY

Just really random and awkward

VOTE: Krazy

UNVOTE:

HURT: krazy

So the question is where does this come from. For the entire previous dayphase Dann had been warming up on me etc. etc. But he has two reasons to flip his read on me with minimal explanation:
-mastina townflip which he was fine letting happen
-now Ali is scumreading me therefore he thinks he can get a consensus push on me

i want in

Something_Smart
Wooper

Gamma Emerald
MariaR
Firebringer

Pinkball

Menalque
Iconeum

Krazy
PenguinPower

I'm taking issue with all the tone reads just because of how easy it is to fake tone for bursts of posts

If you can point me to a consistently towny tone for all 500 pages I'll be both impressed and town read that but otherwise

Especially with Krazy: Mastina comes at him with "you would have replaced out if you were scum"

and it's not hard to come off as towny in response to that

How is this an organic progression from the previous day where he was recognizing townpings and finding meta explanations for why I might be likely town?

I also feel Krazy suddenly stopped tunneling me when I started tentatively feeling better about his slot after the mastina shit

Accuses ME of politically reading him when I have only wavered on him a few times, and also deliberately ignores the fact that he made several moves to soften his push on me when mastina/krazy was flaring up

Krazy you haven't approached my slot in good faith since the beginning of the game and that's really really not something I would expect from town!you

horseshit. you know it's worse than bullshit because it's not a bull.

me: Krazy's tunnel on me doesn't feel genuine

Krazy: LOL DANN DEEPWOLF BLAH BLAH

like you can't make this shit up

[/quote]

LOL

[Krazy]

Here, my reaction is based off of your refusal to actually engage with me. Even now, you come out with "lol Dann is hilarious as scum" instead of like, directing anything that I can respond to at all. You haven't been interested in sorting me ever since I started scum reading you it feels like.

Sure except I don't interact with people to form reads, I analyze what they do and then I reach a conclusion. I might talk with people about the merit of a read but I have never been good at generating content with provocative questions or shit like that. It's the reason I hate playing day 1 as town. Whereas you have spent the game trying to present yourself as interactive when you never seem to actually care

[Krazy]

@Krazzy
simple question: where's this read been?

You mean the read I was talking about when Alisae decided that I was scum and that I didn't want to play the game?

[Krazy]

From your perspective, on the off chance that I am town, why wouldn't you want to help me see that you are town?

You mean like in all the times I started talking to you and you said "I'll get to that later" or outright ignored me? Or where you said you wanted to talk about reads but then never asked me about any actual reads?

The thing is you keep *finding* reasons why I'm town, and then two posts later you decide I'm not again when the reads of other people in the town change or something else happens like my read of you changes. I don't feel like you've approached me in good faith at all this game. You use random AtE arguing my posts are bullshit when you want to scumread me and then fabricate meta when you want to downplay your push.

[Krazy]

Like outside of possibly mastina what has Krazy pushed? Dann and me iirc, which have been conveniently timed and OMGUSy pushed all the way through as I have seen them.

Where is this coming from? Weren't you townreading me for the entire game since day 1? Why was this not a problem then?

[Krazy]

Like there's enough people pushing me that some must be town in addition to Ali but it's pretty obvious there's an attempted scum dogpile in mylo.

[Krazy]

why are these shit posts a part of your case

Why is it A GUILTY all of a sudden when you shrugged it off so many times before

because you don't crumb and a mechanical action by discussing TR or SR
you discuss shit orthogonal to that because you are communicating a special action
did 222222 ppl miss this

The whole point of that line of discussion was whether you were Ank's guilty via Buffy being the crumb and you tried to downplay it with a joke

[Krazy]

3. I thought said reads list was scummy when combined with your other posts and then cased it.
4. You responded by saying "ok dann is scum."

Like, I'm sorry I haven't been the absolute best at interacting with you all game. But you can hardly say I was the one who started engaging in bad faith.

You assumed that me saying "dann is scum" was an OMGUS -- you were trying to poison the well against me. You didn't ask, "okay why am I scum?" You didn't ask for a deeper interaction. You made a knee-jerk reaction to my accusation.

I play with Nancy a lot. Nancy's early game scumreads can be very strong, and one of the main things she does is she *prioritizes* people that scumread her. Here's the thing Dann. I know I am town. That is the one thing I know in this game with certainty. So if someone is scumreading me, they are statistically more likely to be scum. "OMGUS" is not a defense and you going there *immediately* is scummy. I didn't say you were scum because you scumread me. I said you were scum. And you were scum because of tone, something you didn't bother to push on. Instead you hid behind OMGUS.

[Krazy]

what

Oh I'm sorry were you too busy accusing me of hiding behind mech to notice that I was trying to talk to people that explicitly townread both Mena and Dann?

At this point we want a full solve, and anyone who is just transparently ignoring Ank's guilty at this point is way more likely to be in a scum team. Pink Ball ignoring a mech guilty this far into the game seems very much at odds with his play in Anime Upick, in addition to his otherwise bizarre actions.

For me the question is "who is continuing to try to protect Dan and Mena" but apparently if I ask someone a fucking question then I guess I'm not leading a lynch and therefore don't want to play the game which is what Ali has decided to start repeating every other page

[Krazy]

So yeah Duck I'm curious about what in the mid 440s made you decide I was scum?

If it was me getting frustrated with Ali let me tell you dealing with Boon as IC also pissed me off and I didn't do particularly well with Hopkirk in ircher's larger normal either. I find it very frustrating to interact with mech confirmed town flipping their reads on me because I have no doubt about them being scum so they must just be wrong, and dealing with someone who is wrong when I am trying to solve or sort is annoying af.

[Krazy]

It doesn't matter what you say about your actions, it matters what your actions are and how they reflect on you. As I see it your actions are self motivated by defense and reflect poorly on you.

Yeah and then you reconsidered that interpretation of the day 1 exchange for the entire game but now you are flipping your read again because?

[Krazy]

that pop in

Dann: "You're not solving me in bad faith"

Krazy starts posting

Dann: "lol pop in"

sure Dann, this is definitely how you play town

[Krazy]

your read on krazzy is stupid.

this is a fucking incredible post and I'm like disinclined to believe duck takes this tone or tact as town even if he is frustrated. I could be wrong since this doesn't easily match the misdirecting tone duck usually works through as scum but it's still too jarring to ignore

Dann - Mena - Pink Ball - Duck is 4

[Krazy]

Because I was stayed by your behavior in Heart of Light and Shadow, but I don't feel like that is as meaningful, and mastina and Titus flipping town makes me feel you are sketchy again.

The same Titus that hooded me so we could talk and then shot pops over me?

[Krazy]

I know it's not a guilty

Why would Ank choose Buffy other than that it was a joke

why would Ank choose movies when she doesn't even watch them

but okay, why if you are town, are you not pushing Mena? Who else could she have plausibly hid behind?

Like you continue to want to just drop it altogether but this is mylo and there is no reason to argue that it's a bad time to talk about a mech guilty

[Krazy]

THAT'S NOT TOWN POSTING

WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO SAY TO THAT

if you're town you are confbiasing to the extreme here and it's actually ridiculous

you came in and said that I stopped tunneling you for political reasons when MASTINA was happening

that's so insane and laughable I refuse to believe you would drop that shade as town dude, there's no way. That's such a gross and incomprehensible misrepresentation it frankly is astonishing.

[Krazy]

I didn't say "lol pop in" after you started making posts with content

Yeah instead you said it IMMEDIATELY after I make my first post of the day

give me a break, if you want to interact with me why the fuck would you immediately go to poisoning the well?

[Krazy]

I am pushing Mena

read my posts maybe

okay then why the fuck is your argument "WHY DID THIS BECOME A GUILTY" and not "actually I think it's Mena"?

Why do you launch immediately into defensiveness?

[Krazy]

who's pushing you in bad faith then? where do you see the scum dogpile?

Maybe an entire page of people coming in and shitting on Dunn for townreading me?

[Krazy]

why did you like...not give a shit about lynching dann or following through on the mech guilty until now if you felt so strongly about it? i've p much convinced myself she hid behind nacho

I was still thinking about it and wanted to have a conversation with people I was thinking might be scum on why they were willing to entertain both Dann and Mena being town. I misunderstood one of your confusing posts earlier that included a weird thought experiment where they were both town but then you said it was just a weird post. Then I started asking Pink Ball about his reasoning and Ali decided I didn't want to play the game because asking questions instead of leading a lynch is scummy now, since you know, it involves mech.

Prove me wrong. Why would Ank hide behind someone she basically never mentions? And while you're at it, why are you not scum for joining in the "oh no krazy is talking about mech" bullshit? Why do you want to ignore a guilty or displace it onto something that there is zero reason to think happened?

[Krazy]

Why isn't Mena more likely the guilty from your perspective? It feels like you switched that to fit this narrative you're pushing about me.

If this is how you feel why did you not join me on Mena ever until now? Why did you only flip your read on Mena when he flipped his read of you?

[Krazy]

this feels like an ace you've been keeping in your sleeve, not like believable trajectory.
we're in a spot where it's distinctly beneficial for scum to play all their cards
town!you abso-fucking-lutely actually makes an effort to play this in better faith than you've played it here

Maybe because if I express uncertainty about it or ask people their opinions I'm accused of only talking about mech? And in fact people have been piggybacking on mastina pushing back against me having mech? And I just had to deal with a townflip from someone who accused me of only talking about THIS VERY MECH?

So now it's a guilty. Prove me wrong. I don't give a fuck if you like my "trajectory" this game has been a shitshow and now I'm making a decision. At this point the town needs some level of direction.

[Krazy]

Oh okay

so if I talk about it I get all caps

but if I don't talk about it it's not a real trajectory

[Krazy]

You know what this game literally isn't worth it, I'm going to really start losing you here duck so I'm just going to write this off as alignment shit and call it a game.

[Krazy]

[Krazy]

<3 u duck

[Krazy]

I explained at length who Ankamius targeted and why, ftr

Wonderful job Ceph, thank you for taking over.

[Krazy]

I explained at length who Ankamius targeted and why, ftr

Wonderful job Ceph, thank you for taking over.

and by this I mean I tried to take credit for Pops outing Dann as the target, failed, and somehow didn't get lynched for it

[Krazy]

Like, come on. The hider was the only thing even approaching investigative power we had.

don't forget Ari

[Krazy]

yay now time to get yelled at by people wooooooot

how dare you accurately accuse me of being scum and see through my theater with Dann!

[Krazy]

I think this was a swingy setup that swung very heavily away from town with certain things (hider, vig, desp -- almost all the strongest power roles missed except the strongman doc)

while I agree the setup is slightly scumsided I think 2 masons + ari + weak hider + strongman doc is a lot of mech town and a reliable way of protecting mech town. Ali did get two separate saves throughout the game which is the only reason there even was another day.

Personally I want to say me winning the 1v1 with mastina was really big but I also don't want to bring it up because mastina wrote like 4 wallposts in the dead thread about it already

[Krazy]

wait that was theater?

I think? Isn't bussing usually considered theater? Or maybe not?

[Krazy]

There was nothing wrong with the fruit mechanic, for sure, aside from the cancerous governor fruit. The game really didn't provide players with much of a means to bargain; some of the bargains were interesting but most weren't.

I personally didn't really like the 'trick' of the neighbor fruit even as scum, mostly because I think neighbor pts are already toxic and cancerous so making them even more cancerous is just gross

[Krazy]

I also think Ali's message ability, if used in certain ways, would have very nearly broken the game. I don't think Ali would have done that and I already talked with Jingle about it a bit but on *paper* this setup might have been theoretically townsided.

[Krazy]

Vig + desp + 2 masons + hider is maybe six mech town in an optimistic scenario,

6 mech town on day 2, if the hider stays alive they can win the game for town tho.

[Krazy]

Also hey, this is now I think officially the most effort I have ever made as scum in a game

[Krazy]

my reads this game were fucking lit

I had the entire scum team in my PT with Titus

[Krazy]

Who is your new avi gamma?

[Krazy]

I apologize for my role in this game

You were and are beautiful

[Krazy]

Jjh wqd partly mech cause I thought he was bus driver kekeke

[Krazy]

Hmm maybe

But he also just seemed like an ok kill so there wasn't too much pushback

[Krazy]

Can we give GI and LLD a joint "please don't get mad at each other because of this stupid game" scummy

[Krazy]

<3 maria

I feel like the majority of things I did this game were almost protown

[Krazy]

Pine conftowned maria 0.o

He made a lot of risky decisions in the name of lulz

[Krazy]

I want to do a new scummy category

Koolest Kat

person who stayed the Koolest in a game where people got tilted

I'd nom pops

I'm not going to create a thread or post in the scummies thread tho because I'm lazy

[Krazy]

Titus *hug*

sorry we were not same-alignment!

[Krazy]

I always knew RC was a xofelf alt